Ever Wonder How A Speech Therapist Can Help You or Your Loved One with Meera Raval Deters

Speech, language pathologists, and speech therapists actually mean the same thing. In the adult world, there are a lot of areas that we can help with. Sometimes, unfortunately, when people get older, if they have a brain injury or stroke or, something happens to their they have trouble swallowing

About Meera

Meera Raval Deters, M.A., CCC-SLP, BCTS, ACAS is the owner of Super Speech Solutions, a concierge private practice that provides online Speech Therapy to Texans.  She received her Master's degree in Speech-Language Pathology from Our Lady of the Lake University in 2006.  Meera has worked in a variety of settings including hospitals, skilled nursing facilities, inpatient/outpatient rehabilitation clinics, charter schools, and private practices over the past fourteen years.

Meera specializes in accent modification and child language disorders, with an emphasis on autism.

Certifications/ Awards:

• Completed Phase 1 out of 3 for BCS-CL (Board Certified Specialist in Child Language) through ASHA (the American Speech Language Hearing Association)
• Certified Brain Injury Specialist
• BCTS: Board Certified Telepractice Specialist through IBCCES (International Board of Credentialing and Continuing Education Standards)
• ACAS: Advanced Certified Autism Specialist through IBCCES (International Board of Credentialing and Continuing Education Standards)
• a basic DIR/Floortime provider
• 3 Awards for Continuing Education (ACE) through ASHA (the American Speech Language Hearing Association)

When she is not thinking about speech, Meera loves to spend time with her husband Jeff, cook, watch Hallmark movies, and go on walks with their dog, Daisy.

www.superspeechsolutions.com

www.ageucational.com

Full Transcript Below

Ever Wonder How A Speech Therapist Can Help You or Your Loved One

00:00:14
Roy
Hello and welcome to another episode of educational. I'm your host, Roy I'm Terry. We are the, podcasts that were chronically not only my journey through aging. Of course, Terry is timeless than hasn't aged in many years, but also, our parents are getting to that age where they need more help and guidance in different aspects of life. I think we've got some hard decisions, that are on our horizon. We just felt like, my background has been in aging for the last 20 years and we just felt like there were a lot of people out there that are looking for answers. Unfortunately, we usually wait till we're in an emergency or in a crisis to look for those. Hopefully we can give people some things to think about so we can, at least be a little more prepared. I mean, you can never be totally prepared for the things that happen, but if we have a little knowledge, it'll go a long way.

00:01:05
Roy
We also have professionals on, from time to time. Today is no different Terry I'm going to let you introduce mirror.

00:01:12
Terry
Meera Raval Deter's is the owner of Super Speech Solutions as concierge private practice that provides online speech therapy to Texans. She received her master's degree in speech language pathology from Our Lady of The Lake University. In 2006, she has worked in a variety of settings, including hospitals, skilled nursing facilities, inpatient and outpatient rehabilitation clinics, charter schools, and private practices over the past 14 years. Meera, thank you for coming on and being with us today.

00:01:48
Meera
Thank you so much for having me really happy to be here.

00:01:51
Roy
Yeah. And, it's, I guess that, I can speak for myself. I won't speak for Terry, but I don't even know that we know enough to even start with any intelligent questions for you. It's only late is that the, I put this, put a lot of this back on you, is that well, first off, kind of tell us how you got here, how did you end up in the speech world?

00:02:14
Meera
So my dad is actually a radiologist. He's a doctor by profession and I actually found out was what a speech therapist does because of that. My dad had been working at Hermann hospital in Houston, and I think this was right after I finished high school. I had no idea what I wanted to do. Some people know exactly what they want to do when they go to college, but I had no idea. My dad had the brilliant, of course now I think it's a brilliant idea. Although my dad always has a brilliant mind, but, he had the brilliant idea for me to come to the hospital with him and observe what three different kinds of therapists do. I observed physical therapy, occupational therapy and speech therapy. The second I saw what a speech therapist can do to help adults. In this case, we're in the hospital setting, I was really just taken with being able to help people with communication.

00:03:05
Meera
I still remember, to this day, and this was of course now more than even 14 years ago. Cause I hadn't even started college at the time. I actually saw it at the speech therapist was helping someone who was in an ICU unit. I think they had suffered wounds of some kind and they were actually having trouble with their voice. She was actually helping them communicate in terms of talking. And I just found it so fascinating. I remember asking questions and just thinking, man, this is what I want to do. I want to help people with us. Even though I observed occupational therapy and physical therapy, I'm just not really like I do work out and stuff, but I don't feel like I really have the physical strength to do those kinds of things. I do have a lot of respect for people who are in both those professions is like I said, I don't think I could have done that.

00:03:51
Meera
That's pretty much how my journey started and how I decided I wanted to become a speech therapist.

00:03:57
Roy
Okay. That's cool. I mean, I think that's awesome to be able to expose you to those and it's not my parents' fault. I'll give them credit. They've tried, but I got out of high school. Didn't know what I wanted to do, went to college didn't know and still there's days, I'm not sure what I want to do. So it's still, ever evolving.

00:04:16
Terry
Was very brilliant in that way. That's awesome.

00:04:19
Roy
Tell us what are some things and I know it's, there's a lot to it, but tell us some of the major things that speech therapy that you do for people, things you might can help them with or things that you do to help them.

00:04:35
Meera
Sure. I think a lot of people, honestly, very commonly, I feel like people come to me and they think I help with public speaking, which is not what I do at all, actually. I'm glad you asked that because I feel like a lot of people who have not really had too much exposure to the field really don't know what a speech therapists can do. Just to clarify speech, language pathologists and speech therapists actually mean the same thing. Number one, that's just important to know they mean the exact same thing. In terms of speech therapy, and I know today we're talking more about adults. I do work with both adults and kids, but for our purposes today and the adult world, there are a lot of areas that we can help with. Swallowing is one big area that we can help with. Sometimes, unfortunately, when people get older, if they have a brain injury or stroke or, something happens to their brain could be dementia, could be, they have a bleed in the brain, lots of different things unfortunately can happen.

00:05:32
Meera
They may have difficulty with swallowing. So that can look like someone choking. It could look like someone having that really wet gurgly, voice quality, where it just sounds like, oh my gosh, that doesn't sound right. Something went down the wrong way. Oftentimes we can be consulted to help with swallowing for voice is another whole area we can help with. Sometimes what happens, like I said, due to various injuries, someone can actually trouble with their vocal cords. It actually means that their vocal chords are not opening and closing as they should. It can give their voice a very different quality and a speech therapist can help by prescribing certain vocal cord exercises that can help. Oftentimes, they may have to go to an ENT or ear nose, throat doctor who actually scopes their vocal chords to see if they're opening and closing correctly because speech therapy actually can't even be cleared for speech therapists.

00:06:26
Meera
Can't be cleared to do therapy until, actually knowing the diagnosis of the problem in that case. Cognition and memory is a whole nother area too. If someone is having difficulty with short-term memory, whether it's due to Alzheimer's or dementia, or it could be due to a brain injury, that's definitely an, a big area that we can help with. There can be lots of different things that we can do to help, but I would say mainly a lot of caregiver training, does, is something that we do in that case. It might be recalling names of medications. It might be, recalling daily activities might be helping someone come up with a schedule for what they do during the day. Even with cognition or memory, like there are a lot of different things. I think that we all take for advantage. Our brain is responsible for so many different functions.

00:07:15
Meera
It could be related to problem solving. It could be relating to processing, it could be relating to social skills. I mean, it's a whole host of areas that we can help with even just under the area of cognition or thinking.

00:07:28
Roy
Interesting. Now, and I know that you work with children and on, and let's kind of just back out the, group that you may help due to trauma. This something that as we age that typically, you're, we're going to need to see a speech pathologist or is it that, only certain things like the dementia or other physical ailments will trigger it and I guess, does it con I guess kind of the question is, does it become more common as we age in general?

00:08:01
Meera
Well, I think it can, but I think I really depends on the health of the person. So, I mean, generally speaking, you're not going to see a speech therapist, unless there's a specific reason. Like there's a decline in communication, right? The communication is not happening as much or memory is not as good as it was before or swallowing is not as good as it was before or the way someone's voice sounds. Generally I would say that we're consulted, especially in the cases of Parkinson's dementia or Alzheimer's, brain injury or stroke really are the most common areas that we're oftentimes consulted upon.

00:08:39
Roy
Okay. There's definitely going to be, I guess there's definite game be a trigger mechanism there that sets off the need for you to come in and see people.

00:08:49
Meera
Right, exactly. Thought I, thing I want to mention, that's also a really interesting area in terms of, for the adults. One area that I specialize in and working with adults, now this is not related to injury, but just as an interesting side note to know what speech service can do with adults has something called accent modification. That's an elective, speech, elective, speech therapy service that people will actually seek me out for, to help with improving their speech, improving their pronunciation, to actually help them, go higher up in the workplace. That's a really fascinating whole separate area than what, all the other things we're talking about. And Roy enjoys that because.

00:09:29
Roy
I probably need to sign up for that one there.

00:09:35
Terry
No, I like his accent, but you could teach him not to be, I mean, just speak like, and it just, I was going to say normal tone. That's not what I mean, just like middle of the road, Midwestern ish, no accent.

00:09:52
Roy
Lonnie. I lived in Massachusetts for a while and I had somebody be like, wow, you don't sound like you're from around here. I'd be like, nah, I'm from New Jersey. And they're like, oh, okay. Like, it's really, do you think I sound like I'm from nature.

00:10:11
Meera
Yeah. That's an interesting thing about accents. Even wherever you go in the U S people can sound different, let alone all other countries in the world. Like I said, that's a specific service that people will come to me for because they feel like they're not being very well understood at work. For purposes of, that they feel like it's actually hindering their progress, how far they can go up in the workplace.

00:10:34
Roy
Yeah. It's unfortunate because I, I've made peace with this at my age by now, but people think that, you're from the south and you sound that way that you're probably not too intelligent or you're just kind of slow on the uptakes, but, it's just, learn to, go.

00:10:52
Terry
With it and use it to your advantage.

00:10:55
Roy
It's a thing I actually, I mean, and, it, I, I see where that could be very beneficial, especially, if you're younger and wanting to try to move up in a company. Very interesting. Another thing I don't want to dwell on that too long, but it's just funny you brought that up because the other thing was that as I stayed there longer, I think my accent kind of started going away, but they said that whenever I would pick up the phone and talk to somebody in Texas, they said that my accent would immediately go back to, the deeper Southern accent that I used to have. So.

00:11:33
Terry
Yeah, we used to do that with my cousins in west Texas, man, we used to make fun of them. Cause you couldn't understand a word that they said, and there were five or six words that were strung together to make one. We're just like, what are you talking about? So anyway, let's get back to the.

00:11:53
Meera
Roy. What you're saying about the stereotypes are unfortunate. Yeah. That to me is a really negative piece of it. I mean, I feel like everybody just needs to respect it. People of all different ethnicities races and from all different areas, geographically are going to speak different. Sometimes I feel like that's not something that happens, unfortunately.

00:12:12
Roy
Yeah, no, it doesn't. Well, let's go back to the aging. The Swallowing is an interesting piece that, I don't think a lot of people would know that you actually deal with that, but it just, I guess for a lot of different reasons, it can be hard to just swallow your own saliva. Also if we have a food or drink that people get where they just can't, swallow like normal, or they start aspirating, I guess, of some kind,

00:12:45
Meera
Right. Exactly what you're saying. What happens is there can be weakness of the muscles involved for swallowing. Like I said, due to different, incidents that could happen or injuries as such. Yes, oftentimes there can be a risk for aspiration. Aspiration being that things could potentially have the possibility of dumping into your lungs, which of course we want to completely avoid because aspiration pneumonia is a serious thing. We don't want that to happen to anyone. Oftentimes when a speech therapist is consulted, like I was mentioning before, if there's signs of, choking, certainly, and if they're drinking water or they're coughing quite a bit, like not someone who has a chronic cough outside of, eating or swung, but let's say subtle, like someone starts choking, they start coughing, or they just have that really wet, gurgly, vocal quality. Those are really the biggest signs that we see, or if they have like a spike in their temperature after eating or drinking, that can oftentimes indicate that there's a potential possibility of aspiration pneumonia.

00:13:49
Meera
Now, if we suspect that there's a possibility of aspiration, then we'd actually do a diagnostic test. A radiologist is actually called a modified barium swallow study. That's actually an extra eight X, three study that's done. Like, you do have to do it in consultation with a physician or an MD of some kind. You're actually looking at your client and you're having them drink, water. You're looking to see, you're actually looking at the x-ray as it's happening. You're looking on the screen to see, Hey, where is that water going? Oh, and then you do that with different consistencies. You might do that with like something that's harder to chew, like a cracker versus something that's pure, right. Like apple sauce. Basically all that to say, if you look at an instrumental evaluation like that, you can actually make a very specific, safe diagnosis terms of, and recommendation in terms of what that person is safe to be eating and drinking.

00:14:56
Roy
Yeah. Okay. Let's kind of staying on that path for a minute. Do you go in and let's just say, somebody has had a market marked change that they used to could eat and drink. No problem. Now they're kind of coffin hacking, choking more. So, we call you in, I guess you go to the ear, nose and throat doctor first, you get a diagnosis and then you come in and work with them. So do you are there? Right.

00:15:23
Meera
So, so the order would come from some kind of position. I'm sorry, before I was just saying ear nose and throat, that was specifically for vocal cord, but a doctor, their MD has to write the order for speech therapy. Correct.

00:15:34
Roy
Then, are there exercises or things that you can do to help make it better? Or do you have to think about adjusting the diet to where they're at or some combination of both of those?

00:15:50
Meera
Yeah, that's a great question. So it actually depends on the individual. Sometimes there are strategies that they can use that may help them, what swelling. Sometimes we might recommend something like a chin tuck, which is like I did right now, which is actually where you're bringing your chin all the way down before you swallow. Typically if we're recommending a strategy, we'll actually try that during the instrumental evaluation, the modified barium swallow study, to make sure that actually helps. And, sometimes we might recommend using a straws. Okay. Or it's not. Like I said, all of the recommendations we're making are based exactly on what we're seeing. It's all, based off of the information that we're getting from the diagnostic imaging.

00:16:32
Roy
Yeah. That's awesome. It's not really, just guesswork like, well, I've seen this before. Maybe we'll try this. It sounds like there's real time information to say, this is what's happening. Also to say, this is what we've tried, it's helped or not.

00:16:50
Meera
One of the biggest things we do is, again, staff training comes in, caregiver training. Lot of times we'll post swollen precautions, in a hospital room. Or if we're in a skilled nursing facility, we'll post them bedside. We'll talk to the nursing staff, the nursing aides, and we'll train everyone on the swamp cautions, for example, the person needs to be sitting upright at 90 degrees every time they're eating and drinking. That's okay. If they're on a feeding tube, et cetera, that's still the case. So there's some general precautions like that. You want to make sure the person is alert while they're eating and drinking. Again, that's another general precaution. Then, the specific diet recommendations and strategies, after that they are done tailored to the individual. Yeah.

00:17:35
Terry
Do you, I'm going to dike sorta digress but, do anything about Schatzki's rings? Like it's like, no, my mom has, what's called Schatzki's rings and they're just that, enclose upon her, swallow. I mean, it has something to do with her swallowing mechanism and it's not working properly at the same time to where, she gets things down in the same, the way that she swallows it. And, so I just was wondering if that, I mean, he's never, she's had it for like 20 years and she has to go in and get scoped and they have to expand her throat, ? So I just, I, sorry, I just was, I was wondering, well, he's no, that's okay.

00:18:25
Meera
No problem. I haven't heard about it, so, yeah.

00:18:28
Terry
Okay. What kind of caregiver, I mean, w what would, what kind of caregiver strategies, do you talk about or suggest, I mean, what could we, what can caregivers do to look to see if they may or may not need a speech therapist?

00:18:48
Meera
Yeah, I think that's important to know. I think if you see that someone's not communicating as well as they were before, that's definitely a time that we would want to be consulted. The caregiver, I want to reassure anyone who's listening, especially the caregiver, s a lot of what's going on. It's definitely good for them to go directly to the MD or to the doctor and say, Hey, something's not right here. Like, what can we do? Because the doctor is the one you want to keep the, keep really good in touch with, because like I said, they write all the orders, they write orders for, occupational and physical therapy as well as speech therapy. So, like I said, we can't do anything unless we have the order just to emphasize that. Beyond that, I would say, if you notice that they're having more trouble with their memory, maybe they're not able to remember daily life activities, or, their communication sounds different.

00:19:41
Meera
Like sometimes, your voice can sound slurred, right? So that can happen as a result of, potential, mini stroke or, schemic stroke or, a full on stroke. If you notice anything that's different with swallowing or with communication or with memory, I would say those are the biggest ones, to look at consulting a speech therapist, as well as, if there's a progressive, disorder or disease that we're talking about. Oftentimes, we do work with people, have Parkinson's and dementia. There are of course different phases to those specific diagnoses that I'm talking about, but oftentimes those are things we can help with. I know with Parkinson's, a lot of people will think, oh, well, physical therapist is involved. Well, sure. Certainly they are, because a lot of times they will need help with walking. More of these speech therapy side would be helping with the voice, and a lot of times I'm talking at like the volume that you and I wouldn't be talking about as a challenge.

00:20:47
Meera
There are some exercises that a speech therapist, can actually show, the individual patient or client. That's also where caregiver training would come in. If there exercises that we're recommending, as a home exercise program, then that is a person who could help, their loved one and complete them on a daily basis, if that's what we're recommending.

00:21:11
Roy
What about getting you involved sooner rather than later? And I realize we need to be cognitive of what's going on so we can go to the doctor to keep them involved, but, what's the benefit of recognizing the signs earlier sooner rather than later, getting to the doctor where you can get involved before, is there a point that there's just no return or it just takes you longer to get them back to a better place?

00:21:41
Meera
Well, I think that's important information. I think it kind of depends on the setting because what happens is, if I'm a speech therapist working in acute care in a hospital, I'm going to see that patient sooner than if I'm working in a rehab center, right. Or if I'm working in a skilled nursing facility or a nursing home. I would say me personally, having worked in different settings, in the hospital, if someone's in acute care, you're going to be seeing a speech therapist. You're going to be seeing them sooner. Just because, the nature of like, for example, working in a stroke unit, you're going to be consulted a lot sooner, because there's a lot more medical involvement at a hospital. If I'm a speech therapist at a rehab center, like when I worked at one in Houston, a while back, I did work with people, but it was after they had been through the hospital and they came to us and they were an inpatient or outpatient, but they were fairly medically stable at that point.

00:22:40
Meera
I think that really depends more on the setting. Also, similar to a hospital, if I'm a speech therapist working in a skilled nursing facility or nursing home, I'm going to be, again, consulted more, I'm going to be consulted sooner because they do have doctors that are making rounds on a regular basis. I probably am seeing someone who's going to have more medical involvement. They may not be as stable, but really then it depends. Cause there was, a skilled nursing facility I worked in that one side actually was a nursing home. The other side was a skilled nursing facility and I saw people who are on both ends. In the skilled nursing facility, I actually saw a lady for example, who was living by herself and she was fairly high functioning, but then I also saw someone on the other side, who had really serious Alzheimer's and, had a lot of trouble with swallowing.

00:23:32
Meera
Yeah. I think even within each setting, there can be variation. It just depends on where you are. Okay.

00:23:39
Roy
Okay. Yeah. That's something, just talking about the eating act. Cause I will say I am a fast eater and the bigger the bank, the better, just to move it. I think once we get to a certain age and then we're in our, as a caregiver, we're in a hurry to let's, we got to get this done so we can move on. I think maybe just taking that time to slow down smaller bites, give them time to really process it if they're having some troubles anyway, I'm sure it takes longer to chew. Just patience, I guess, is what I'm trying to say.

00:24:17
Meera
Patience is a virtue. I absolutely agree. You did bring up an important point to really, take time with eating and swelling is really important and take really small bites. If you try to cram your mouth and you're already having trouble with swallowing and unfortunately won't do anything good. That's another general swelling precaution we do recommend, like I said, having the person sit up right. Making sure they're alert and making sure they're just eating really small pieces of food. A lot of times we may also recommend, that they're alternating the liquid with the solid meaning. Every time they're eating a bite of food, they're, drinking water for coffee or tea or whatever it is after to kind of wash it down.

00:25:00
Roy
Yeah. What are, what are some success stories that you've seen? What's the, kind of one of your favorite episodes that you can remember where you feel like that you've just brought somebody back from a bad place to, a better place for them and their families?

00:25:18
Meera
Well, there's one individual that I've been working with and he suffered from a more minor brain injury. And, unfortunately because I left that position and after a while working with him, I didn't get to completely see, what he was doing after, but all that to say it was pretty great to actually have him work on math and we did get to go out in the community, he and I would go out one-to-one outings. I worked at a place called mentise in Houston, were responsible for community reintegration, meaning we actually took our clients out, who had a brain injury, a stroke out into the community. We would go shopping at the mall, we would go to target. He and I was great because he and I would go on individual outings. We had this like 16 passenger van, my God, it was so hard to drive.

00:26:08
Meera
That's a whole nother story telling you, but it was really fun because he and I would go on outings. I remember one time I took them to a popular area in Houston and I literally told him, I need you to do the following 10 things and meet me back at two 30. I gave him a certain amount of time. Well, he was actually, really good at, all the stuff I gave him. The thing I really enjoyed about working with this particular individual is barely highly motivated. He would come to me, even if I just had my door open and I was working on other stuff. He would come to me with homework. I'd given him earlier in the week and say, Hey, miss Mira, I'm done with this. Can you check with this? I'm ready for more. Were actually training him to go back to work.

00:26:49
Meera
I don't remember where he worked. We did have a vocational rehab therapist at momentous as well. She was also a of helping with that. It was cool because, he and I were actually working on a PowerPoint and he actually presented it to all of the staff. I mean, he was doing pretty well, like even when I left. Like I said, unfortunately I wasn't able to keep in touch to find out what he was doing, but I was pretty impressed with where he was. To give you an idea when he first started, I remember he wasn't even completely oriented. Like he couldn't even tell me, I mean, I think he knew his name, but like he, wasn't completely sure about the place and the time. So, I mean, the brain really has a remarkable ability to recover. How.

00:27:34
Terry
Long of a period did that take that you.

00:27:38
Meera
Were working a month? Couple of months.

00:27:41
Roy
Yeah. That's, that was the next thing I was going to ask too, is about typically, once you start seeing, and I know it's based on their severity, but what's the average interaction that you have with your clients?

00:27:55
Meera
I would say, for brain injuries, what I know from research and what I've heard it working with my coworkers from before is that most of the progress you see is within the first year and sometimes up to the first two years. Oftentimes, the individuals that I'm talking about I've worked with on a daily basis. The interesting thing about like I was saying, the job I was at before is all of us did group sessions and individual sessions. We're talking couple of hours, a day of intensive therapy. My man, it's no joke. I mean, we're signing up for like intensive, like I said, for purposes of what I'm talking about, the rehab program that I was in there signing up for, quite a few hours of therapy. These are people who could, I wouldn't say they could tolerate a hundred percent, but they would get to the point where they could basically.

00:28:43
Roy
Wow. Yeah. That's a lot, it's a lot more intensive. Yeah. The length of time is much more than what I expected. Interesting. Yeah. And it's got, you know, yeah, right. But.

00:28:56
Meera
You know, if someone's no, you're fine. Go ahead. Oh, oh, I'm just going to say if someone's at a hospital, still as a speech therapist, you're seeing them on a daily basis. I would say at a hospital though, therapy is not going to be as intense obviously, but typically still there's occupational therapy, speech therapy, as well as physical therapy, but you're not probably going to be doing as much therapy, still therapy is there. The intensity level of course can only be higher once you're out of the hospital because you're more medically stable.

00:29:30
Roy
Right. So, let's talk about the psychological, aspects of this for just a moment, because I can only imagine as, the, that you're helping not being able to communicate or not being able to eat very much, I guess, makes you feel kind of defeated and, are we ever going to get through this? And I'm sure there's, some desperation and directness with the actual client, but then also, with the, caregivers and families surrounding them with them being uncommunicative or hard to communicate or having these troubles. I imagine that, it can be kind of tense or, and maybe that's not the best word, but maybe I'll let you explain. Yeah. Frustrating for sure.

00:30:21
Meera
Well, I think it can be a large mixed emotions, especially depending on where the caregiver is in their journey. I think it's a very difficult process. It's, there is, I would say some grieving involved in the sense that even though that person is still physically alive, unfortunately after something happens to your brain, you're not exactly the same person. So, a lot of times I would hear stories from, husbands or wives where they would tell me, oh, they used to function at this level. They used to be in this high level job. And things are just really different. I mean, I can't imagine that is, I think empathy goes a long way. It really just understanding that, these are people who are used to their loved one functioning very differently. They're here because they have a problem and they're relying on you for help and support.

00:31:10
Meera
They want to know how they can help, but they're going to be days where they're frustrated, they want to hit their head against a wall. It's something they have to deal with day in, day out. It's not something that, there's not really an easy fix. I mean, time heals. All right. It takes a lot of time, takes a lot of patients. I think that's important to remember, I think it's really important to realize where they're at and, not to take things personally, I think can be hard because I think that's something all of us want to do, but I think sometimes, the caregiver may lash out, but it's because they're frustrated. Because they're going to do that with everyone, they have not singled you out individually. It's not you, it's the experience of what they're going through is that they're frustrated.

00:31:56
Terry
Yeah. And, and for caregivers, I mean, how anybody who's in a caregiving situation, how it's so hard not to do whatever task is at hand, let alone let somebody, I mean, that's what your whole business is based on helping people, but you have to know how much to help them. How much is too much because they need to do it themselves. Right.

00:32:23
Meera
Exactly. I think one of the challenges is that you want the person to become more independent and so you don't want the caregiver to be doing everything for them. There is a fine line and, let's be honest, sometimes there can be friction and frustration, but there's also, the positive side of that, where their relationship evolves over time and people understand each other better. People understand that, Hey, even though I want to do everything for my loved one, I'm not going to help them by doing that. I need to actually do less for them so that they feel better, they become more independent and they feel more confident.

00:33:02
Roy
Yeah. There's a lot of that masking that goes on, I guess, with couples, because just like us, I mean, I may at times be incommunicable, but Terry knows my thoughts and can finish it or go do something for me. Well, while I understand that dynamic, I think, as loved ones, caregivers, whatever, I think we have to kind of realize the longer we put this off, either the less chance they have of getting some back to normalcy or the longer road that we're going to put them on to do that, which was kind of leading into my next question about, so, on average, how far can you bring people back usually? I mean, is it like you get them pretty much back to normal with their speech and swallowing, or is it just usually some improvement from where they were, what does that, what does the end product usually look like?

00:33:58
Meera
I think it depends on the nature of their injury. Definitely for someone who has a more severe brain injury, it's hard to predict how much they're going to recover. Like I said, the first year is really crucial up to the first few years, but I would say generally speaking, their prognosis may not be as good just because there was a much larger injury or bleed in their brain. I think those conversations can be difficult because, you're looking at someone who ends up going home where home has to be much more structured. For example, they need to have a schedule what they're doing every day, like they did with us in rehab, versus someone who might be ready to go back to work like the individual I was talking about before he was getting there. I mean, he was probably pretty close. Like he may have gone back to work okay.

00:34:44
Meera
In a modified position. Probably not exactly what he's doing before. I think it just depends on, I think it depends on a lot of things. I think it depends on where the bleed is in your brain and the nature of how severe the bleed is. I think it also depends on, unfortunately, some of the things we're looking at are progressive, like Parkinson's and dementia. Unfortunately we know that those things change over time. There is some deterioration that happens with that, which again is really difficult to process. Because you're used to seeing someone one way and then, over time things get worse. I think it just depends on the individual. Okay.

00:35:25
Roy
Yeah. It's always good to, manage expectations sometimes as loved ones. We, we're always hopeful that things will be back to normal, but sometimes they want, and so we have to, good to understand that we accept just some norm. Yeah, yeah.

00:35:42
Meera
All right. Those are the really difficult conversations. Right, right. Oh, for sure.

00:35:47
Terry
Yeah. You had, some advice about, iPad apps. Maybe that might be helpful.

00:35:56
Meera
Oh yes. I'm glad you reminded me about that. I have a few actually, that would be helpful. One thing I wanted to mention that we haven't really talked about is, something called a phasia. Aphasia is a loss of language, when you have a brain injury or stroke. The reason I mentioned that is because, that's oftentimes when you have difficulty with communication and that can look different, it can be, the person can sound really fluent, but they're not making sense. Or it could be that, they're using limited words. I mean, there are a lot of different types. Basically I would say overall, the person has difficulty using a complete sentence. They might speak in phrases. They might not be able to use words at all. They might not be gesturing. One thing before we get to the iPad apps, I want to mention that's important for someone like that is having a communication board.

00:36:48
Meera
There are actually some really great ones you can get online. You can kind of even make one your own, but essentially the purpose of a communication board is having that person point to, things that are really important. Like they can point to yes or no, or they can point to how old. They can point to points for their basic wants and needs. Typically I would say in acute care, in a hospital, that's something, a speech therapist will bring on day one. If someone has had a, if someone's having that kind of trouble with their communication. That's a really important one because what happens is since communication is so vital, people are relying on, even the person who, is in the hospital to be able to communicate, but if they're not able to, it's really frustrating for that person and for the whole family and the caregiver.

00:37:36
Meera
That's just a really good thing in general to keep in mind. Like I said, there are a lot, you can get online or a speech service can bring you one. Really it can also be just, having pictures of family members available, close to the bedside and just having the person be able to point or, having the names written out. Basically you have a lot of visual aids in front of you that can be helpful. You're not relying on the person being able to use their words. You're relying more on, I would say nonverbal communication in that case now, is that,

00:38:05
Roy
That typically brought, is that typically brought on by some kind of a traumatic brain injury or stroke as well? Or is there other things that cause the effect?

00:38:16
Meera
Okay. Yeah. Correct. What happens is, yeah, if the side of your brain, the left side of your brain is responsible for language, so entering injury to that side of the brain typically will involve, loss of language or loss of communication that we're talking about in this case. One of the good series of act apps for aphasia or loss of language is Tactus T a C T U S. They have a whole host of apps that are really awesome. There's a series that I've actually used before, but it can help with lots of different things, naming pictures. One of the things I like about it is that it can be really interactive. If a patient or client is using it can give you the first letter for example of the word. It'll give you like hints for you to come up with what the actual word of the picture is, or the name of the picture.

00:39:08
Meera
Okay, cool. They're higher level ones where you're working on reading comprehension and stuff like that. They're also two other good apps that I want to mention as well. Grocery IQ is a really good one, honestly, whether someone has had a brain injury or stroke, if I was personally, so going into a grocery store, which I'm not because I don't miss doing it because of probate. This one is a really helpful way to keep track of a grocery list and you can even personalize it to the store that you go to. The coupons and everything is actually really cool. I would totally use it if I was still going to the grocery store. Okay. So that one's really handy. There's also one called dose test, which helps with, keeping track of medications, which I know it can be important, especially when people are on multiple medications, because they know they have to be taken at different times.

00:40:00
Meera
They look, the purpose for each one is different. They might look different to be able to keep track of that. I would say definitely, that's also an area that we can help with in terms of speech therapy. Oftentimes if someone, is that the level where they can cognitively, like from a brain standpoint, work on learning their medications. We have actually worked in conjunction with nursing staff and gone through all the different medications and written out a list, okay, you're on this medication for blood pressure, you're on this one for, whatever it is. Actually taking pictures of the medications and written down the dose of everything, so that you can help, that person be more responsible and know what they're getting. I remember we would actually have some people trained to the point where nursing staff would show up and that person would like open their checklist and say, okay, so I'm getting such and such right now.

00:40:53
Meera
Right? Like it was actually really cool. And what was.

00:40:55
Terry
That called again? It's dose pest.

00:40:59
Meera
Dose CAS, D O S E C a S D.

00:41:03
Roy
Okay. That brings up a good point too. We always talk about, having these conversations before this traumatic event, if possible, is that, it's, sometimes you can find the medications laying around, but there are times when you can't and this is why it's good to talk to loved ones, especially to get those lists of what are you taking, what's it for when he taken it was the doctor that prescribed it. So, because, just, let's just say in the event, I'm out of medicine, I threw the bottle away and waiting on something and something bad happens. Then, nobody knows that I was really taking that medicine. Anyway, I just feel like we can never have that conversation soon enough, get it documented, can save us all and save you and your loved one, a lot of heartache as well.

00:41:53
Meera
Absolutely. I think using a pillbox also is helpful too. Yeah. Yes. Like the daily ones where you're actually opening it. You can open it later and see, oh yeah, I already took that. Yeah. Oh yeah.

00:42:05
Roy
Yeah. We have to do that even just for our vitamins and supplements. Cause it's only easier because I'll take them in the morning and then about mid-morning I'm like, Ugh, did I even take that yet or not? So, yeah. Right.

00:42:16
Meera
So it's like a visual reminder. Right. It's helpful for anyone really know taking medications, you can look and see, Hey, I took it or I didn't. Yeah. Yeah.

00:42:25
Roy
When I don't take it, first thing, then a Terry sets it out on the counter top where I have to trip over it next time.

00:42:32
Terry
Yeah. You take it.

00:42:36
Roy
I'm sorry. I didn't mean to interrupt you. Do you have any more apps or is that okay?

00:42:40
Meera
No, I think those are the main ones I was thinking of. Yeah. Those are all the really good ones.

00:42:46
Roy
Yeah. Well, thanks so much for taking time out of your day. A couple of questions before we go. What is, an, what is an app or a habit? What is something that you use every day in your personal or professional life that you feel adds a lot of value?

00:43:01
Meera
Oh, I like that question. We actually meditate every morning that just helps me stay focused and stay grounded. I've been doing it for a while and now for some reason I don't do it in the morning. It really throws me off and I really don't like it. So I definitely try to do that. That just helps me. It just helps me focus really. Yeah.

00:43:23
Roy
Okay, great. Yeah. That's a good, we hear that more and more about this and that I've tried it. I just need to get in the habit of making myself do it. Cause I know, like yesterday were talking, I was a little scattered and I told Terry I'm like, I just need to maybe meditate for like five minutes to kind of, recenter and get my mind from being so scattered. So yeah. Thanks for, they.

00:43:45
Meera
Have a lot of apps. I don't actually use one myself. Well, I do use some inconsistently, but in general, if you search apps, there are a lot of cool ones that will run you through a guided meditation. One thing I want to say about meditation is that think a lot of people think you have to sit there and silence. I have a series of what I go through in my own head, but guided meditation is still meditating. I think meditation, people just think, you're sitting there like this exact, but it doesn't have to be that.

00:44:15
Terry
Whatever your catchphrases or you're a little,

00:44:19
Meera
Yeah. It can look all kinds of different ways that for some people, honestly, their meditation is walking out doors. So, I mean, I think you just kind of have to know what works for you. That's something I enjoy just going for in nature. Yeah. The plan is going to do, I don't do that every day, but that's something I try to do at least once a week.

00:44:39
Roy
That is such a good mechanism to clear my head. I think that's more of my meditation is just having that quiet time walking through the nature. Anyway. Yeah. It's it's good to clear our head. We need that for our creative energies and also, for me problem solving, if I'm bumping up against something, I'm having a little trouble solving, sometimes getting away from it, clearing my head. I come back with a whole different perspective on that as well. So that's good advice. Tell everybody, so who can you help? And I realize that we have to have doctor's orders, but basically who is your clientele? How can you help them? And then how could they reach out and get ahold of you?

00:45:22
Meera
Sure. The name of my company is Super Speech Solutions, LLC. That's actually the name of my Facebook business page. It's also the name of my LinkedIn page. My Instagram handle is also a Super Speech Solutions. So I tried to keep everything easy. My website also is the same, it's SuperSpeechSolutions.com. My email is [email protected]. In terms of helping people, they're actually a whole host of people I can help. Like I mentioned, I do work with children. I can help children, especially I specialize in helping children, build their language skills. I specifically specialize in working with children who are autistic, in terms of adults, more of the piece I can do with adults is caregiver training. Because right now I'm not accepting insurance. Because of that, I can only see people who are 65 and under, but if someone wants to do a caregiver training, it doesn't matter what age they are.

00:46:25
Meera
And I can help in that area. Like I, like we mentioned before, if there are challenges with, swallowing or challenges with memory, and things of that nature, definitely I can help with that. I just can't do the individual, one-on-one therapy. Like I said, because I'm not an insurance provider, people over a certain age then I, but then I can definitely refer them out in that case. Yeah. If someone has had a brain injury or stroke, as long as they're able to pay out of pocket, I would still be able to help them for one-on-one therapy. Like I said, if they're just under yeah.

00:46:59
Roy
It's important, I can talk to the child perspective for just a minute. Cause our son had, one of his adenoids grew, I don't know if it grew or swollen, but somehow it became very enlarged and block the drainage tube of his ear. This went on for some period of time. We finally found out that he had lost some hearing, temporarily, once it got cleaned out, it came back, but he, what it didn't really affect his, he's still able to verbalize, but he was like in second or third grade, first or second grade is very young. It kind of put him a little behind. We, saw out speech therapy, in order to get him caught back up on that learning scale. Definitely, all kinds of things can lead to, things that you wouldn't even think about can lead you down that path in a hurry.

00:47:54
Meera
Yeah. Actually commonly in children who have trouble with hearing and have trouble with pronouncing their sounds because they're not able to hear everything clearly. That's actually a really common reason that people would come see a speech therapist as a child. Yeah. Yeah.

00:48:09
Roy
All right. Well, thanks again for taking time out of your day. We certainly do appreciate it and that's gonna do it for another episode of educational. Of course, I'm Roy Terry, and you can find us at www.ageucational.com. We're also on all the major social media platforms, as well as all the major podcast platforms. A video of this interview will go up on YouTube when the episode does go live. Until next time, take care of yourself and take care of your family.

www.superspeechsolutions.com

www.ageucational.com

Does The New Alzheimer's Drug Treatment Released Last Week Offer Hope? with Terry and Roy

A new Alzheimer's treatment was introduced last week. This is the first new drug introduced since 2003. This drug treats the underlying issues of Alzheimer's, not just its symptoms. It is not without controversy. Members of the advisory committee quit and the company was ordered to continue trials and testing. An then there's the cost, on average $56,000 per year. What's your opinion?

About AGEUcational

AGEUcational.com is dedicated to AGEUcating seniors and their families by providing quality information and education content on all aspects of aging and how to age better. Our contributors use their aggregated 80 years of experience in the senior living industry and the field gerontology to develop relevant and helpful content. AGEUcational.com will focus on all aspects of aging and how to age better.

As we live longer our wants and needs change. It’s important to stay informed about changes and new developments in order to continue living the best life possible. It is AGEUcational.com’s goal to help you thrive during the aging process, not just survive. Our senior years can be the best years of our lives if we plan for and embrace the changes aging brings. Topics include but not limited to financial, health, senior living, travel, and much more. Information is compiled from other trusted resources as well as content developed by The AGEUcational.com team especially for our readers and their families.

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Full Transcript Below

Does The New Alzheimer's Drug Treatment Released Last Week Offer Hope?

00:00:15
Roy
Hello, welcome to another episode of educational. I'm your host, Roy Terry. We are chronicling not only our journey through the aging process, but also our parents. We're lucky to still have, I have both of my parents Terry's has one of hers that are still living and they're getting to that point where they, we're having to make some different decisions. Just become more challenging as we go through this. What we want to do is to, disseminate as much information as we can. Not only, talk about our struggles that we go through, but also have professionals on from time to time and use. Typically what we do is we release our professional, interviews on Tuesday. On Thursdays we have a, just more of our personal insights, things like that, but we're also going to start trying to focus more on, Alzheimers and we're not experts. I want to get that out of the way right now.

00:01:16
Roy
We are not experts. Don't claim to be experts, always seek medical advice, always read and research the information for yourself to make the best decision for you and your family and your loved ones. Terry has been through, the di the Alzheimer's struggles with her father.

00:01:37
Terry
Yeah, my dad, he had Alzheimer's well, he had actually dementia, Pick's disease. We always referred to it as Alzheimer's. Because he was, that's what he, the medication that he took was an Alzheimer's medication. So, to slow the progression and he had it, a good, he was out of the house for seven years, but he had it for a good, probably 10, 12 years total, that we not really want to do admit, but that we came to grips with and tried to do our best job that we knew how at the time, and he passed away about this is going on the, he passed away in 2014. So I'm almost seven years. Yeah. It was, I mean, we've got some funny stories about where he lived and things like that, but the medication, there's not much out there and they, and, there has not been an approved medication for use with Alzheimer's in any stage for 18 years.

00:02:50
Terry
Yeah. The fact that there was one, just within this last week that was approved for use, what was a huge feat right there.

00:03:04
Roy
Yeah. I think it's fair to say, and I'm not taking any sides, but I think it's only fair to the listeners to say that it's approved with an asterisk by it. So it's not without controversy. The other thing I read is that, we have 6 million people in the U S that suffer from Alzheimer's. Again, that's not taken in, I guess that's specifically Alzheimer's diagnosis, not taken into account, all the other types of dementias and things like that. But, yeah, at the, we thought it would be interesting, and this is, we made a decision a couple of weeks ago and, we just, we've been struggling with, technological issues, wifi and things like that. Anyway, we're going to try to be in more regular about having these Thursday releases, where we can talk about anything that's new and going on with us, but also anything new, with the struggle with Alzheimers, it may be not always going to be new information, but just bringing you some kind of inference, some.

00:04:09
Terry
Kind of current happenings, and there's always something current going on with it, because there are so many people and that number is just going to multiply so much as we get into the future. Yeah. It's important to get medication, oh my gosh, it's important to get money for funding research, all of that stuff. Yeah. Yeah.

00:04:34
Roy
So, this new drug is from Biogen and I'm not even gonna try to pronounce it. It's like.

00:04:41
Speaker 3
A aide. I.

00:04:43
Terry
Do kind of mob out economy, something like that. Nobody says it cause I don't know how to pronounce it.

00:04:50
Roy
But, so the weird thing was in here again, I'm, I've done a little reading and I think we'll just say most of the source that we have for this right now has been the NBC news on their website and then on CNN as well. So, what we always advise is go on there and check it out. And the FDA, I, I did.

00:05:13
Speaker 3
Pull it up on FDA side also. We're.

00:05:15
Roy
Not the experts and we don't ever want to be, but mainly we just want to give you something to the listener, something to think about something to investigate. It may or may not be a good fit, for each individual situation. It's definitely, may be worth the conversation with your healthcare professional or your loved one's healthcare professional. Yeah.

00:05:37
Terry
The, and the, when this first came out, I was so excited. I was just like, oh my gosh, they've actually approved something for use. Well, everybody was just across the board. Excited about it because it had spent almost 20 years. Well in the last, for about two or three days that of stewed and then all this other stuff came out about possibly, controversy regarding, the use. It's it's the first disease modifying therapy approved for use in the U S but it's for early stage Alzheimer's and, it treats the underlying disease rather than manage the symptoms like anxiety.

00:06:22
Roy
Yeah. The one thing I've read is that it does not claim to reverse Alzheimer's, but it does, slow the decline, which, it, if you have someone suffering, then of course that's good news. Some news is better than good news, some news, a better, no news. If it helps we would love something that would reverse it and make everybody back to where they were prior to that. But, if we don't have that, maybe taking that, the position of slowing it and at least extending that time, that's a win for some people. I think that's where the, that seems from the little research that I've done on this. That's kinda what the medical professionals, and if I'm not wrong, correct me, as we go through this, there was an independent panel back in November of 2020 that actually declined to push this forward and wanted more research and more information once they, once the FDA advisory and advisory panel and then the FDA kind of overrated that and pushed it out.

00:07:32
Roy
I was reading that one of the doctors that was on that original panel has actually resigned because it was about, well, 11 member panel, 10.

00:07:42
Terry
Panel, and 10 of those 11 members did not approve it for use because there were, different reasons. One of the 11 was uncertain. So none of them approved it.

00:07:58
Roy
Yeah. That's kind of the scary, because the drug came out on what they call an accelerated approval pathway, which I think has opened up a lot, due to COVID and the vaccine and pushing things through. I think the FDA is taking a hard look at, streamlining that. Again, it seemed like this was a lot of pressure from the public from Alzheimer's groups and things like that, because they're saying, Hey, look, kind of, like you said, in the intro is like, Hey, we haven't had anything in 18 years. If there's even a hint that this works, get it out. Let's trial it with real people, because that was another thing that, the way that they were trialing it, I don't think there was an issue with it, but, the limited number of people, I think these groups saw, if we get it out to the masses, we'll let them test this and see which, w that is one of the, I guess one of the abstract points of this approval process was that it was approved, but they told them that they had to continue doing their studies to make sure.

00:09:07
Speaker 3
What they were getting out of it, what the.

00:09:09
Terry
Advisory committee, the 11 member committee, didn't approve was the original study as it was designed. And, there are some possible side effects, like brain bleeds and, just even, but if you think about it, even if they had possible side effects, I mean, my gosh people have Alzheimer's, so what's gonna weigh it out, is it okay? Are you worried about the side effects from this, the possible side effects from this new drug or the possibilities of this new drug being able to be helpful? Right. I mean, they have Alzheimer's, that's not, that right there is the re that's the rest of their life. You don't know how long that's going to be, and you don't know what kind of other, on top of whatever health issue has come along with that, because there are so many, ?

00:10:11
Roy
Yeah. I think it's important that individuals make the decision, an informed decision. That, I think that's kind of where we're going with this. It seems is that, the groups are saying, yeah, I mean, as long as there's not a lot of, a large percentage of people that suffered the side effects, they're saying, well, let's put it in the people's hands and let's let them make a decision. You've got, you know, a terrible disease. Do you want to take a chance that this could go right for you? Or, are you willing to roll the dice and say, well, yeah, if I get the side effect, I'm not going to be much worse off, it may make it happen sooner, but I'm probably not going to be much worse off than I, if I would have struggled with the Alzheimer's, through the, in stages. The, in the, so that's kind of giving it back to self choices, letting people, families decide for themselves, is it worth it for us in our situation.

00:11:11
Roy
Of course, consulting their hair, health care professionals amongst that, but then also, the price, I mean, it's definitely going to be priced out. I haven't heard yet if this is going to be covered by insurances, or if it's going to be, if it's still going to be considered experimental, so people will have to pay cash out of their pocket, which, some data that I saw, and all this is very preliminary. We are typing this June 12th of, 20, 21.

00:11:48
Speaker 3
All the years are running together now,

00:11:50
Roy
Just the, you know, things change rapidly. And, if you listen to this and she, the end of June or July or August, maybe it's different, but for today, they're saying that this will cost $56,000 a year. I mean, that's a lot of money. That's about, what just under five grand a month then? no, it is. It said that what you have to do is you have to, it's delivered through infusion. You have to go in every four weeks, get an infusion, and it's based on your weight and then your cognitive impairment. I guess, if you're heavier and weight and have a, and you're further along with more cognitive impairment, maybe it's going to cost more and they give you a little more where if you're at the beginnings, then maybe not so much. I think that you've made that point too, is that this is originally, I guess, designed for people that are very early on.

00:12:50
Terry
Stages. Yeah. And, I'm sorry, I was going to go back because I didn't cause the, doctor who was on that committee who resigned the, advisory committee who resigned, he's not the only one who resigned. There were actually three total members who did. And, they, he cited one of the reasons because of the great public pressure to get a drug out. I don't know. It's just such a it's that. Also that it may delay the development for new drugs for Alzheimer's because they're putting everything into this. I, I don't know. I don't know what well, I mean, it's diminished a momentum for other ones. It's pretty.

00:13:42
Roy
Telling that 10 of 11 said no. One guy was like, and I don't know. Then, for three, two doctors to actually resign over, I mean, it's, that's pretty telling in itself. There was another analysis done and I'm not sure of the group that did it or how they went through the, coming up with these figures. What they did is they tried to look at, based on the gains from taking the drug that were suggested by the company studies, that this should only be priced between 20 $508,000 a year, which is drastically reduced the yeah. Substantially lower than the 56,000. It, if, I guess what they're saying, it's a cost benefit analysis. If you were to do this, what is the real benefit to you? And so that's another thing to maybe look at, is the huge difference in just that, is it really worth taking a chance? Well, number one, is it we're spending money for it and is it worth taking the chance with the side effects for obviously the minimal gains, but that's an outsider speaking.

00:15:00
Roy
If it's your loved one, then you're looking for a minimal gain, anything in, at any cost Aspen,

00:15:06
Terry
Right? Yeah. And, I was just gonna, I wanted to read the FDA's response when that came out, when the drug came out, it just said currently available therapies only treat symptoms of the disease that this treatment option, is the first therapy to target and affect the underlying disease process of Alzheimer's. As we've learned from the fight against cancer, the accelerated approval pathway can bring therapies to patients faster, well, spring, more research and innovation. So, everybody, it's just so confusing, but I know as, the daughter of an Alzheimer's patient, I would be grasping at every straw that I could and doing everything that I possibly could just to give them a chance. Just any chance.

00:15:59
Roy
Yeah. The, I think the other drawback to this is it, using it appropriately, if let's just say somebody uses the, in the later stages and it doesn't work as well, are we going to give this a bad name versus if it's used appropriately in the early stages and does delay, so I think that's another thing about, opening up widely is, and also really listening to the mystics that come out because we can, we just don't want it to come out and say, well, it's just not working in a large percentage, but if that percentage is people that it's really not targeted to help, then, we wouldn't expect that. I think, as you do your research beat, just be careful to look at all the different facts.

00:16:50
Terry
Yeah. And the, so Dr. Joel motor, I'm not sure if I'm saying his name, current para muter pear perimeter. Anyway, he was the one who was, who quit and came out and made a bunch of statements. One of the, statements that he made, he said that the original study as designed was fate, was it failed completely? So what the, accelerated approval pathway for the FDA accelerated approval pathway did, was retroactively choose a subgroup that got better. Those were typically very biased and that is quoting him. Yeah. So, you know, it's back and forth. I'm just very conflicted. I'm conflicted, but really anything it's just such a devastating,

00:17:54
Roy
These new things roll out there's, you can probably usually always make a case for, one side or the other. I think the main thing is it, information is power. You walk into a doctor's visit, the next time, at least you have this information to say, Hey, is it good for us? if were to do it, what is the outcome? What is the side effects? What is the stage that, you were in, or your loved one is in, and, try to make some educated and get some health care professionals. The problem is too with that is a lot of your local practitioners may not really be in the loop since this is as coming out new. It may take, looking deeper into some of the original studies and that, I was trying to think where that was, not sure where it was released, but I think you can find it on the FDA website.

00:18:51
Roy
Yeah.

00:18:51
Terry
Yes, definitely. Then, yeah, and we looked at see, and CNN and, the CBS and M N NBC, all of them, ABC,

00:19:05
Roy
It's such huge news, because, like I said, it's been 21 years. This treats the, some of the underlying, issues of the disease, not just their symptoms. So, there's just a lot of hope that's been put around this. We just need to, move cautiously until it's proven, one way or the other. All we are we recommend is just do your research, do your homework. Maybe don't even take one person's word for it, get this is, would be a great time to get a second opinion. Oh, well,

00:19:36
Terry
Third, fourth, fifth, especially with that. Keeping in mind that desperation, brings decisions that you may not make if you even had the information, but try to get as much information as you can right before.

00:19:53
Roy
All right. Well, unless you have anything else, we'll wrap it up for this episode.

00:19:58
Terry
Nope. Just, I mean, it's exciting news to know that we're close, but just make sure that you do your research proceed with caution.

00:20:08
Roy
Yeah. All right. Well, that's going to do it for another episode of educational. We appreciate you listeners very much. If, we also have the Facebook group, you can interact we're on Instagram, we're on all the major social media platforms. We have a lot of great guests. If you haven't listened to us before, go over to our website, www dot age, you dot com. You can see all of our previous guests and episodes that we've released, some really great ones out there. Some awesome ones to, come up in the future as well that we've got on the calendar. Give a listen and always open for feedback. If there's a topic that you'd like for us to cover or an expert you'd like for us to get on. If you've got a family member that's been through this, we also like to hear, individual stories of people want to share.

00:21:00
Roy
Then, if you have a practitioner that has to do with aging in some manner, if you want to recommend them, we'd be glad to talk about that. So reach out, let us know. And, we are on all the major podcast platforms to apple, Google, Stitcher, Spotify. If we're not a one that you listened to, please reach out. We'd love to, get it on. It make it easy for you to listen to until next time that's going to do it for me. I'm Roy Terri, you all have a good day, take care of yourselves and take care of each other. Take care of your loved ones.

www.ageucational.com

Want to Die Laughing? This Musical About Hospice Will Certainly Help With Benjamin Kintisch

In the U.S. discussions surrounding death are avoided at all costs. Life Review The Musical gives us permission to feel a wide range of emotions from sadness to trepidation to acceptance to even humor. This musical combines storytelling and music chronicling the journey of hospice patients and caregivers. Open a dialogue with your loved ones. A must see!

About Ben

Benjamin Kintisch is a Cantor, a chaplain and a music teacher, in addition to his involvement with theater and songwriting. “Life Review” is the first musical he has created.

He has loved singing and performing on stage since his youth.  He graduated Brown University, with concentration in Judaic Studies. Graduate studies at Jewish Theological Seminary included a Masters in Sacred Music along with a Cantorial degree. Ben recently completed his fourth year of chaplaincy training, having served in several hospice and eldercare facilities.

He currently lives in Columbia, MD with his wife, daughter, and dog.

www.lifereviewmusical.com

www.ageucational.com

Full Transcript Below

Want to Die Laughing? This Musical About Hospice Will Certainly Help with Benjamin Kintisch

00:00:13
Roy
Hello and welcome to educational. I'm your host, Roy Terry. We are the podcasts that, we are chronicling my aging through journey. My journey through aging, of course, Terry is timeless and it hasn't aged a day in the last 10 years. So, but anyway, and also our parents, both of our parents, are having, or at that point where we're needing more help and having to make decisions. That was why we started the show. We'd want to talk about our journey, but also we bring on professionals and guests from time today, we have an exciting guest and I'm going to let Terry introduce Benjamin.

00:00:51
Terry
Ben Kintisch is a Cantor, a chaplain and a music teacher when he's not on stage. This is the first musical that he's created called life review. The hospice musical he's loved singing and performing since early elementary school. The journey from hospice chaplaincy to songwriting to musical theater stage has been an amazing inspiration life. Review the musical, the hospice musical, excuse me, is, it's a new musical celebrating life love and loss through three seasons at a residential hospital. The story follows the young rabbi, David, the new chaplain at the facility. He arrives in autumn eager and naive caring, but lonely as he ministers to the patients, rabbi David learns from his patients even as he cares for them and their loved ones. Ben, thank you so much for being on the show. We're so excited to have you here today.

00:01:51
Ben
Thank you so much, Terry, for the lovely introduction and Roy, I love how you didn't even skip a beat. When you had your senior moment during your.

00:02:02
Ben & Terry
Introduction about podcasts, I just smiled. You smiled. We got to put it all out there, right?

00:02:10
Ben
That's a hundred percent real on educational, right? That's right. Excited to be with you and all of your listeners. I.

00:02:16
Terry
Just like to hear him say that I'm not aging at all.

00:02:21
Ben
Yeah. I know some of you are listening and some of you are watching. Those of you who are watching saw me give the.

00:02:28
Roy
Nice move dude. Right? She's not within arms length, but she could still hit me if she threw something. So.

00:02:35
Ben
It's nice to be. I always tell people it's a good idea to be nice to your loved ones, especially if you co-habit.

00:02:41
Roy
That's right. Exactly. Well, we've been excited about this for quite some time. I think, stumbled across the, review on, Instagram. When I was telling Terry about it was just, both of us have been so excited and then, it's taken us a while to get this date. We thank you for, staying with us, being persistent, getting on here. We are looking so forward because this is a, it's a tough time in life for the individual going through the hospice and then also for their family. I think that's kind of, two fold with this episode. It's not only going to be very entertaining with you talking about, your journey, how you got here in the musical, in, the, behind the scenes of the musical, but also performing a couple notes, couple tunes from the musical itself. Just that lesson of how we can kind of tie all this together to maybe make somebody's life easier.

00:03:40
Ben
Absolutely. Roy, you summed it up beautifully. This is a time, this pandemic time of tremendous loss and tremendous grief, related to this pandemic specifically, we've seen a startling amount of deaths, especially among those 65 and older, let's just name it, right? So if you are an older person, statistically speaking, you've been touched by COVID or someone, has, or at the very least a neighbor or friend or coworker. If you're lucky enough to not have had an actual loss like mortality in your network of friends and family, maybe you've suffered losses related to the whole world shutting down. I was laughing with Ryan Terry before we started taping about how I'm a middle school teacher. I'm doing this strange thing of teaching hybrid, learning through a computer screen. There are kids all across America around the world whose school year has been canceled or changed right now.

00:04:41
Ben
That's not as heartbreaking perhaps as losing a loved one, like someone dying, but that's a grief, right? I worked with some teens at my synagogue, who were like the drama kids and they were excited for senior year when they would finally get their chance to be a star musical was canceled last spring. Yeah. So, and I can relate because my project, as we will discuss has hit some peaks and valleys and the valleys are mostly COVID related, but we all have our grief right now for those we've lost. The experience is we've lost. The places we can't go to. The theme of grief, which is so huge in this musical project is very much of the moment. And, and as you said, I, I hope to be able to help people move through that grief journey, whatever that grief journey is for them. Yeah.

00:05:34
Roy
Well, that's awesome. Why don't you tell us first off, I know you have a lot of experience in the hospice sector. That's kinda, where, laugh review came out of. Why don't you tell us about how you found yourself here?

00:05:50
Ben
Do you mean the, how did I write a musical about hospice or how did I find Roy and Terry? Yeah. Oh, I know.

00:05:55
Roy
Yeah. Well you could that story. That's an interest now. I just meant like, your experience of your life prior to the musical and kind of what led up into the musical itself.

00:06:06
Ben
Okay. So I'll try my best mean. I'm trying to make this very long story shorter, because it's been approximately six years. If I don't compress the story, you're going to have a hard time with the bandwidth and the length of the interview. So the musical began with songs. The songs began with stories. The stories were mostly inspired by real life experiences I had as a beginner chaplain, visiting patients and their loved ones in a residential hospice. It was my first year of being a chaplain. That part is from the play is semi-autobiographical to be sure though, in real life, I'm a Cantor. The character is a rabbi, but the idea of being new at a job in general, we can all relate to. For me, the specific story was being a new hospice chaplain. Well, so there's this thing in hospice called life review. It's a term that I borrowed from the clinical world to use as the name of the play.

00:07:13
Ben
What it is you sit down with someone and you ask them questions that encourage them to tell the story of their life. I think I'll probably sing that song when we're ready for it, because it's the title track of the show. It's kind of an interesting moment for the audience because they can kind of experience what's it like to visit with a chaplain and tell their story. Anyway, these stories, these life reviews stories that happened bedside were so moving to me one night, I called my wife and I said, honey, these stories are amazing. I think they want to be songs. She replied without missing a beat get writing. That night I started writing and, one of these old, black and white journal books. And, that became the first ballad for the show. Will it still snow when I'm gone? Oh, wow. Interesting. Oh my gosh.

00:08:08
Roy
Yeah. That must have been a, that must have been like being thrown off in the deep end to kind of have that as your first assignment. I mean, cause it's just for most, it's a ma it's emotionally draining and I just, I don't know. Let's kinda like, hello, welcome to priesthood, I guess. Yes, you weren't correct.

00:08:27
Ben
That out of all of the choices, one could pick for chaplaincy for first year training, hospice is a particularly intense choice. One could say the same is true for a lot of other hot, chaplain jobs. I mean, there are chaplains who did their first year in military service. There are some who do ER, hospital wings. I mean, like there are very few chaplain jobs that don't involve a whole lot of heartbreak because the chaplain's job for those of you listening, if you didn't know chaplain's job, he was a of faith who ministers to the sick, seriously injured, ill dying, and their loved ones or more broadly people dealing with real life struggle. They want help from a faith professional. Right? That's what a clergy person is. Most folks who are approximately your generation are a bit older. They discovered what a chaplain is from watching mash so that the young priest on mash, yes, he's the chaplain, right?

00:09:22
Ben
If you've ever been to a hospital with a loved one, when, if they were admitted for more than 24 hours, chances are they had something like on a clipboard, do you want to visit from the chaplain? And if you say yes, if it's a big hospital, you can pick your preference. Catholic Protestant Jewish in New York city, you get the choice of Jewish, the rest of the country. You might not have that choice, but, that's the experience a lot of people have with hospital chaplains. I actually had that experience myself some years ago. I have for viewers who are watching, you can barely see the scar cause I had a great surgeon, but I wrecked my elbow six, seven, eight years ago before the hospice chaplaincy began. I had the experience of being hospitalized for three or four days while I waited a major surgery on my arm.

00:10:08
Ben
It was not life-threatening, but it was horrible. Let me put it out there that for anyone who has been hospitalized and all of your listeners, if they're of a certain age, chances are, they've had at least one or two visits to the hospital. You know it right. It is horrible. Whether you're in there for a heart attack or a heart procedure or cancer, or even something as not that bad as a erect elbow to spend the night in an uncomfortable bed, away from your loved ones. If you're dealing with surgery, which is inherently frightening to most people more. If you have anxiety about medical procedures, your guests pointing to himself, it's difficult to be hospitalized. I had two different wonderful chaplains. This was at New York Presbyterian and upper Manhattan, both Jewish chaplains. Cause I checked that box and one of them named my pain.

00:11:00
Ben
She heard all of this stuff and she heard me minimizing, oh, at least I didn't get killed like Sonny bono. He had a ski accident and it's only my elbow. She said, but Ben, you also told me that you're going to be out of work for a few months. You told me that you're frightened and you told me you're in pain. And you told me you're facing disability. The loss of use of your arm for several months. She's like, that's a lot of loss right there. Ben, that's a lot of hurt. That was classic chaplain skill to hear the person's story and then acknowledge their pain. The other guy was a little more traditional, did some songs in Psalms with me. That was also moving, like to have someone pray with me. That thing that first chaplain did is what rabbi David needs to learn in his journey instead offering teachings or sermons to invite questions and storytelling from the person in the bed, we call it in chaplain training, making space or making sacred space.

00:12:04
Ben
You actually pull back I'm doing it on camera for all of your viewers and you give the person in the bed or the person who's sitting in a chair who's crying space to have that feeling. As my wonderful trainer rabbi, Jim Michaels used to say, you need to go down to the basement with them. And that can be spooky. That can be dark returning to your original question. Hospice is that intense? Sure. Because the basement for people who are dying is to sit with them during their dying days or to sit with their loved ones after they have just died, where during those moments, when they leave this plane and enter another, that is admittedly emotionally intense. That's part of the drama of our young hero, rabbi David's, journey and training. That dramatizes something that we all need to go through, in our lives, right?

00:13:02
Ben
Our own mortality, our own particular and individual journeys of grief, as we deal with the passing of the generations, people sometimes they're surprised. They're like, oh Ben, you're so young. Why are you writing a musical about death and dying? It's so dark. It's like, well, when I was in elementary school, I went to my first funeral and my grandma died in middle school. I went to the second funeral and my grandpa died in college. I lost my first friend w it was a beloved boss who dropped out of a heart attack. In my twenties, my first college friend, as in first pier died sadly by suicide. In my thirties, I lost a friend, who had muscular dystrophy and he had outlived his life expectancy. So none of those losses wrecked me. They were all difficult. Thank God. My parents are still alive and well as are my wife's parents, but there will be a time when we have to bury all four of them.

00:14:05
Ben
At a certain point I will have to bury my spouse or she will bury me if God willing. We're still married when were Olin and gray. Wherever we are, whatever agent's stage we're in now, we are all approaching that difficult thing known as our own mortality, our own death, our end of life. That is super hard, but it's also important to like just accepted, maybe laugh about it. And, maybe that's part of my educational mission. I know you guys have yours about kind of enlightened healthy aging. I think acknowledging mortality, which is admittedly the finish line. To speak for this race called life. I'm acknowledging that is an ending, I think is healthy. That's part of what the different people in the play all go through, whether they're in the bed, whether the plus one, the loved one, holding hands with the person in the bed or this guy that chaplain watching it all unfold.

00:15:06
Terry
It's such a hard, it's just such a hard topic to discuss, for all of those four, for the reasons of, you don't want to address your own mortality. You don't want to know about the people, whoever you're addressing, you don't want their mortality to be in question. I mean, it's going to happen. Why not sing about it? You know?

00:15:36
Ben
Absolutely. You're nodding and the two of you, I think, based on your profession, podcasters, you have these conversations probably more than many of your peers, but I am guessing that, I'm not rude enough to ask how old you are, but I'm guessing some of your peers still have both parents alive and many have already lost one or two. Yeah.

00:16:00
Roy
Yeah. I'm not going to speak for her, but I will say that, at my age, we, the last couple of years, it started to lose a lot more people, who I went to school with, which, it can be a very rude awakening that, it's gotten to be fairly constant, but I'm lucky enough. Both of my parents are still living. Terry's one of her mother's still living. So, yeah, but I was going to say, I'm kinda like you, that I was brought up going to funerals and that my parents took us. And, they didn't, there was nothing weird. They don't, they don't make you like go up and touch them or view them or whatever. You were just there surrounded that this is part of life. It doesn't make it any easier. There is, I have seen people that, they didn't go to their first funeral till they were in their twenties or thirties.

00:16:55
Roy
It was a very difficult experience, but it's just part of life. I don't, I haven't met anybody yet. That's been able to beat it and, avoid it. So it's coming. It's not a pleasant thing. The other thing that ties into this story or ties into our educational is, having these conversations and not waiting until it's too late to ask these questions. I like what you were talking about, get them to tell their story because we encourage that it's family members, we should be talk don't and just this morning we did a taping and were just saying, it's never too, you're never too young to start that conversation. Like my parents, like, what were your grandparents like something I've never asked. I knew, couple of them, very little, when I was small, they were alive. Anyway, and so having these conversations about who they are, the other thing I like that you talk about is as the chaplain, you getting to know the person, because so many times as, healthcare workers that deal with the aging, the person becomes the affliction.

00:18:05
Roy
It's just, oh, that person that's got, heart failure in room three or whatever. It's like, no, this person was some, they are somebody, they had a life, they had a career family, they had all this stuff, but not, I had a nursing home resident. Tell me once that, I've been reduced to the lady that's incontinent and room three. I think letting people talk about that is it's really good.

00:18:32
Ben
All right. I love that last story. In the field of education, we talk a lot about people, first language, it's important. For instance, if you have a child with special needs, you don't say that's a special ed kid. You say it's a child with special learning needs, right. It takes a few more syllables. The point is that the child is not defined by his or her learning disability. Similarly, if someone is elderly and they, it's nicer. I think more respectful to say, this is an older adult or just an adult, right? Like if their age is important, we can mention it. We don't have to hide it. If it's just, he's an old man, she's an old lady and the age is the defining and limiting characteristic. That's not so nice. Similarly with disease. Yes, all of us are carrying some affliction. Even if you are in perfect health, you're still busy dying.

00:19:30
Ben
It's part of the natural attrition, or I'm sorry, atrophy of living organisms, book plug being mortal by a tool Gawande, amazing book. One of the things that he teaches is that all living things are born. They grow, they live and they die similar wisdom in the Robert Faldo classic. All I needed to know, I learned in kindergarten where he talks about how five-year-olds know, because they've planted a seed in kindergarten class that the seed, if cared for, will grow and get a tall. At a certain point it'll fall over and then it will die. Five-year-olds can handle that lesson of mortality. Something happens as we approach the peak of our prime, our twenties, thirties, forties, et cetera, where we're like super invincible and young and sexy and strong. It, at that point, we can't even fathom death and dying. It's why one of my characters early in the play who dies a younger man, it's like particularly heartbreaking because he's not supposed to be dying when the older people die.

00:20:39
Ben
Maybe there's a different intensity of heartbreak because it's like life expectancy and so forth. It's that ending to quote my song. It's coming for all of us. In fact, I'm not sure Roy, if you want me to begin with something lively and funny or something inspirational, what are you feeling right here? Because if it's everyone dies, I've got a good one.

00:21:04
Speaker 5
Yeah, no, that's perfect. That's perfect. Let's do that though. Yeah. So.

00:21:08
Ben
This is the winning number from the play it's called spoiler alert. I wrote the lyrics, music by Andy Boscov. This is a classic Broadway comedy number and we wrote it. The concept came from my buddy, Jason SPE wack. Who's one of the other composers. We were sitting around brainstorming and he said, yeah, man, people are going to be stressed. They're going to be nervous about this. Play about all the dying. He's like, we need a good comedy number to break the ice. We're brainstorming and he's like, I know everybody dies. I said, everybody dies in the end. It's like, that's the hook? So that's the punchline. I already ruined.

00:21:48
Speaker 5
It. It's called. And I hope you enjoy it.

00:22:00
Speaker 0
We don't mean to be a bummer, but we've got some awful news. Hey, it gets colder after some, her, and even when, or as Lou Robert Frost composed one fine day in a most poetic way, he wrote nothing. That's what he said. Now he's dead because spoiler alert and three buddy dies in the end. Sorry to ruin the play. My friend love him or hate 'em. This cannot band. Everybody dies in the end. We don't win. We got to go. You hear every single person, my dear, the neighborly, Ned, who you, justice, spies, you trust where they frightened the guy. Who's the sister never sinned in her life. Your father, your mother, your husband, or wife, the hero out in the feeling of each tall tower. The Salar who battled up every body does need. There we go. Sorry to ruin the play. My friend love him or hate him.

00:23:22
Speaker 0
I'm this kind of panned. Everybody ties in the it's the truth, Ruth. It's sad, flat. It ain't pretty kitty, but it's real committed. Now it's common for all of us. No matter how you feel, no matter your name or party or game, it's the same. It's that man was gentle and noble and smart lady woke. Cause the world was her art. The boy who lived with the baboons heart, they all leave the stage. When they're done with that part, I Kurt, we will do our thing. You hope you don't cry. Every time we sing, whether you're married or you got no ring, the lowliest popper, the last year's king, we all got it. We just sing and sorry to ruin the play. My friend Nava on her head on this cat on pad, everybody dies in the end.

00:24:47
Ben & Terry
Oh, that was great. Great. I loved that. You,

00:24:54
Ben
By the way, there is a kick line in the final version.

00:25:01
Roy
That the, I guess this is the shortest play ever. We open seeing the song it's over drop the curtain.

00:25:07
Speaker 5
It's got the night.

00:25:10
Ben
That is, when presented IRL in real life as a kid say that is an ensemble number. The, the rabbi character is the main narrator doing most of that, but it is written as an ensemble number with all the characters, doing a few punchlines. That way we can get a group kick line because you don't know who it is. Through the magic of theater, all of our elderly and seriously old patients can sing beautifully and dance. That's part of the fun of suspending disbelief. And we get to do that again. Again, I tell folks it's like across between Fiddler on the roof and a chorus line Fiddler on the roof, because it's very Jewish, a lot of talking to God and that dialectical, as we say, and chorus line, because you hear these songs that are almost like monologues set to music. You have Stalla who remembers skiing in the mountains with her kids, and dreams of snow as she's fading away, you have Leroy, a former church musician, who remembers the pride of using his body to make music, to protest, to stand up for what was right.

00:26:22
Ben
We have, Murray who, as he faces his desk, he just wants to make friends. He's like that guy who's friendly with everyone. He has kind of a uptempo Frank Sinatra kind of song called my last day on earth. He's like, I'll make a new friend. Everyone faces their ending in different ways. That's the way it's like chorus line. I invite all of the listeners and viewers to think about who do you think you might be in hospice care or an end of life care? Well, imagine the Broadway version of the scene, right? Cause realistically, a lot of folks who die are not dancing and singing and cracking jokes the way my characters are. Do you imagine you might be someone who's making new friends as you're hospitalized or in a hospice, do you imagine you're someone who would be prayerful and having a serene, experience full of gratitude, like Leroy, do you think you might be dealing with fear or regret like Stella? do you think you might be wrestling with God and a little angry about losses? Like our rabbi character goes through, those are all, emotions that are part of a very big range of intense emotions that we experience as we deal with mortality.

00:27:47
Ben
You, you were spot on before Roy, when you asked oh, chaplaincy that's, chaplaincy in hospice. That's intense. The question behind the question is like, how do you deal with all that dying? That's kind of one of the first big questions our young Euro asks. He's like, I'm ready for this job except all the dying. And it's like, oops. The reassuring thing comes from the nurse has his soon to be friend, nurse Marie who teaches the philosophy of hospice and says that, the joke is, yeah, it's a hospice, lots of dying. Ain't no avoiding that, but Dan's not so bad. Lots of people die here. They turn out fine. You know, rabbi. I just hope when I die, I get treated this nice. Honestly, when I think about my experiences working as a chaplain at this hospice, the real one that inspired the musical and the mid-cycle one on stage, it brings a smile to my face.

00:28:51
Ben
People are surprised that I can laugh and joke about hospice, that I have happy memories there. It's because we bring these amazing stories up. We, we create moments of family unity, sometimes reconciliation, sometimes not, but, unfortunately hospitals are not typically designed for moments of home-like connection. There's some hospitals that have been tweaking around the edges, but like, let's be realistic. Hospitals are not designed to be home like environments, perhaps nursing homes try to bridge that gap between a home-like environment and medicalization. If you think about the person who dies in a hospital with all kinds of tubes and beeps to most people, that doesn't feel all that home, like doesn't feel all that natural. It's often very upsetting visually and often doesn't smell nice or sound nice. Hospice care is not, a panacea. It's not actually for everyone because you need to qualify in certain kinds of ways, as in seriously, ill not likely to recover in six months or fewer than you can talk with two doctors to qualify you for hospice care.

00:30:10
Ben
If you elect for that for you and your family, or please have this conversation today with your loved one, right, guys, talk about your final wishes. Talk about the plan of care and who is your, power of attorney. If God forbid you and your spouse were to get hurt or sick at the same time, those are conversations have today, not in the hospital folks fighting inside of hospice folks. Yeah. That's one of my teaching moments for you.

00:30:38
Speaker 5
Please have that conversation.

00:30:41
Ben
If you don't, the important decisions will be made by people who might not be able to ask you a question, God forbid whoever's listening. If you were incapacitated tomorrow, some jerk on the road, does something dangerous and bumps into your car. If you're hospitalized tomorrow, do your loved ones know your wishes? If the answer is no, I lovingly encourage you to, seek out resources. I know Ryan Terry do a great job of educating all the listeners, have that conversation with your loved one about yup. Your end of life wishes. I have a will, even though I'm 40, if you're 40 or 50 or 60 or 30 or 20, you should have a, will. The only reason you shouldn't have a, well, maybe if you're less than 18 and you only have like a hundred bucks and some bubblegum or something, the kids have bubble gum.

00:31:37
Ben
No, but seriously, anyone who is a legal adult should have a will. They should have advanced directives that deal with medical care. Right. I've seen up close and personal, and it's horrible when loved ones are fighting over care because they ha they don't know anyway, stepping off. Yeah,

00:31:53
Roy
No, you're right. You're right about that. Because every, siblings all think that they know what mom or dad wanted in the reality is a lot of times nobody's ever talked to mom and dad. So thank you for that PSA. That's awesome. I've been doing a lot of talking about that, but I think that the other thing that's kind of a curious about this, about the play and hospice is, hospice was designed is we're never going to enjoy dying. I get that, but hospice was designed to make end of life more pleasurable to say, no more as much as we can, no more tubes, no more fighting, no more, whatever these treatments and all, it's a place just to make the individual comfortable and to live out their life as best as possible, with them in a family surrounded. It's, I think it's interesting that, you do bring these stories to life and, we add a little humor to it.

00:32:53
Roy
I, I think that actually fits in very well.

00:32:57
Ben
Fantastic. Yeah. Since, since we're talking for about what hospice is, if there's a song that could be like, cut it, cut and put into like a PSA for why you hospice, it's this one it's called live until you die. It's inspired by some of the writings of Dame, Cicely Saunders. She was the British nurse who in England started what we now think of as the modern hospice movement. She was, this was after world war two when based on medical advances, a lot of things that previously would kill soldiers, they were surviving them. Now there was this new medical problem of end of life. That was prolonged. It's kind of a funny thing when we think about it, but it is a modern miracle that it takes so long to die. In olden times when life expectancy was shorter, if you were a young man and you were, I mean, let me take a grizzly example, civil war.

00:33:56
Ben
If you were shot in the leg, there was a good chance you would die because you would get gangrene and the infection would spread and not to be gross for all the listeners, but like a lot of things are now like, oh, you would just get a field dressing. Medivaced, in a helicopter would take you away. Like there are all kinds of reasons why soldiers and now the general public live longer and that, okay, that's the short version of how hospice started look up on Wikipedia. I did some reading on Cicely Saunders and her philosophy behind the hospice care. I wrote this song it's called live until you die. I wrote the words and the music is by Jason SPE whack. I'll do a portion of it. Okay. This is performed by the nurse.

00:34:51
Speaker 0
I will do all I can and share them. Oh, man, laugh with you and cry till the mall. Oh man. Hi. Even when you're done, you are even though I knew, bro, can you are who, oh, I will walk with you. Who as you're on your way. Hey, I will talk with you. You have yours sitting by side until the final. I am here for you to live until you die. Live until you. Oh, that's awesome.

00:36:21
Roy
Thanks for performing that. We appreciate that. So, just a minute, I know that, you got this written wrapping it all up and then the pandemic hit. And so,

00:36:36
Speaker 5
Yeah, I haven't.

00:36:39
Roy
Yeah. So, I know that you've performed this for some virtual audiences and probably for some local audiences they're, close to you. What has the reception been like from old and young?

00:36:52
Ben
Thanks for asking Roy and acknowledging my particular grief of this project though. It's not dead virtual tour, 2021, including an appearance on age educational podcasts.

00:37:06
Speaker 5
And Terry,

00:37:07
Ben
Thank you. Did I say it wrong? Loz?

00:37:09
Speaker 5
That's my, let's see. Let's see. Okay. One of us are Italian. Yes.

00:37:18
Ben
Being on this podcast is part of the virtual tour, 2021. Yes, we are all virtual right now because of the dastardly Corona virus. However, there is hope I've got two shots in my arm and I do hope, as a public school teacher, I got to jump to the front of the line. It seems like my target audience is 50 plus. A lot of them have shots, right. Even before we do the in-person live theater and all joking aside, I will not do any live performances until I am convinced as long as my creative team, that it is safe to do theater inside, but there are a lot of exciting opportunities right now for live theater and live music in this virtual environment. Right. Yes, Roy, I have done some live appearances, the main, I guess you could call it product or performance that we, the life of your team are bringing to the world right now is called life review stories and songs.

00:38:18
Ben
It is a virtual cabaret that has eight songs as well as narration and stories in between. It's a nice tight entertaining. 45 minutes was a 15 minute Q and a to follow I've presented that to a large synagogue as well as one of the biggest, elder care facilities in the Baltimore Washington region. That was an interesting gig because they had it piped through the, a lot of elder care facilities. They have like their cable channel for announcements and stuff. There was my face on hundreds of TVs. That's exciting for people who can't get out of their institution at all, let alone go to live theater, for the synagogue performance and for other cultural institutions, happy to do that show. For an additional fee, we can add an educational segment to follow like, a brief musical lecture where we look closely at some of the songs.

00:39:19
Ben
I can distribute copies of lyrics and we pull apart the meaning because there's a lot of juicy material in it. I have a program to talk about grief and loss to talk about end of life care. We have one about, faith issues for end of life care. One about family and generational issues. One about caring for the caregivers. I'm doing a presentation at a chaplaincy conference in a month, the same chaplaincy program where I did my final unit. So like the circle is completed. It's a real honor, shout out to Jeff Tio out in Arizona, but I'll be presenting this musical and then doing some discussions with the next generation of chaplains because we need to as care providers and you alluded to this earlier, we need to get comfortable with our own mortality. Maybe we need to laugh about some of the things that are funny, whether it's mortality or in the play, I've got this body number about sex and lusting after the care staff, which is a thing, male or female, the sex drive is alive and kicking whether or not we can do anything about it until our death.

00:40:35
Ben
So, that's just a funny PG 13 song that's in there. Anyway, back to the tour, we are hoping to bring this in this cabaret virtual format for as many audiences as we can. I know I'm performing at my Senate. My boy had synagogue later in June. I'm hoping to make some conference appearances. So I encourage all of the listeners. If you've enjoyed this interview and some of the songs, please do check out light view musical.com and you can submit your information to get in touch with me. I'd love to meet you and hear about you and your organization or your community through the power of the internet. As long.

00:41:12
Speaker 5
As you have an internet connection, I can come to you.

00:41:15
Ben
Right now. The exciting thing, there's this metaphor in the play. If you visit the musical website, you'll see our logo is a daffodil. In the opening scene, the young chaplain is planting bulbs and he reveals that those are in memory. He's planting flowers in of his deceased parents. He's a young man, but sadly he's lost both his parents, at the end of the place, six months later, it's spring and the daffodils are blooming mean. So I look out my window. I don't know, are the daffodils still blooming down in Texas, but in Maryland, the daffodils, they're still off. They're starting to fade a little, but I see that sign of hope and renewal. What does this have to do with the tour? Well, I'm happy to report that at least one synagogue I pitched on the virtual show. They were like, sounds too heavy for virtual, but how about we book you in a year for a live show? And I said, yes,

00:42:13
Speaker 5
I want to talk to me.

00:42:14
Ben
About a live show in 2022 or 2023 calendar's wide open. I think that what's likely to happen is I'm going to be performing all over the country in this virtual environment. And it's like planting bulbs, right. Who knows, which might grow into a future in real life performance, which might just touch someone. Who's inspired to learn more perhaps to support the project. We are still in early development, but we have big dreams. If this conversation today inspired you or moved you, if you liked the music, please learn more. I would, I would be delighted to meet you personally and have a conversation. Oh, also Instagram at life review musical. That's how I found Brian. Terry.

00:42:59
Roy
What is the, what has the reception been from, I know you haven't done a lot.

00:43:04
Ben
Yeah. I did two workshops. One was a hundred people wondered about 250. So that's some audiences. The good news Roy is they usually laugh when they're supposed to. Sometimes they laugh at unexpected places, which is a funny thing about writing comedy. You never know, like if there's an unexpected punchline and then, they definitely cry when they're supposed to my wife teases me. When I, when I say like, oh man, they were all crying. She's like, are you happy about that? And I say, well, it's like, when you're a songwriter, if you can create a song that moves people to tears, you've created something of power. It's actually, one, it makes me remember the first time I shared one of my songs in public, it was that song about snow. That very first song I wrote, the melody was not even done yet. I was making up the melody on the spot.

00:43:58
Ben
The words are like 75% done, but I had a venue. It was a songwriter's share at a Jewish education conference. Shout out to my dear friends who Horowitz, who led that workshop. I sang for about 20 people in a room. It was acapella. It was rather clumsy, but the words were meaningful to people and I'd say 15 or so people, men and women alike were crying openly when the song was done. And I said to myself, oh wow. I've, I've created something impactful here. Right after the class ended, Sue came up to me and she said, Ben, are there more songs? And I said, there are. She said, you needed to keep working on this. You've got, you've got an important project here. She gave me one piece of advice. She said, clearly how to write a sad song. You have to write some comedy songs and some romance songs and some shocking songs.

00:44:53
Ben
Because if you write eight sad ballads before intermission, they won't return. For the second half, I've tried to follow that advice. You heard one of the comedy songs before there are a few others. I try to have a variety of musical styles. There's a gospel song and R and B song, several eighties sounding power balance. Cause that's when Michael Miller and Jason SPE wax seem to write, they're both like deepest Carol King, Billy Joel Elton. Oh yeah,

00:45:24
Speaker 5
Those guys. Yeah, my creative team. You can hear echoes from all three wonderful.

00:45:31
Ben
Piano, heavy rockers that I just mentioned or songwriters. I mentioned, you know, it's been wonderful. I mean, I'm joking about the joking, but not joking about the laughing and the crying. Here's why Roy, there's a reason why there's this whole genre called gallows humor. Why is everyone making jokes around the gallows? Someone's going to die? It's because it's a very uncomfortable situation and I'm not even going to get on my soap box about capital punishment, by the way, I'm against it. That said, being in a place where death is like, so imminent is deeply uncomfortable. That's why people want to joke because it like diffuses the tension. It's why I had to make a comedy number to kick it off my musical about hospice. It's why the character rabbi David, the character who I play kind of, he's got that nebbishy nervous. Self-deprecating persona. That's a little Woody Allen.

00:46:35
Ben
It's a little Tevya from Fiddler. It is a classic Jewish trope to make jokes in the face of deep pain and suffering. There's a whole, somewhat uncomfortable sub genre of Jewish humor about the Holocaust. Some people don't like it, but it's, I wouldn't recommend non Jews repeat those jokes, but Jews are allowed to, it's like insider humor. We all have our uncomfortable stuff. It's also why a lot of people like to joke about sex and joke about drugs and joke about politics. It's all these taboo subjects. Somehow we haven't learned how to have adult conversations around the uncomfortable, but yeah, many of us are okay with laughing about it. I, I try to use that to our benefit. That's why the two of you, I think, were laughing quite a bit during that funny song before the lyrics are clever, but like, what is the essential truth? It's not that funny.

00:47:35
Ben
Everyone dies. Right. If I go to a lecture and I stay, everybody dies, whether you're rich or poor man, woman or child, you've already fallen asleep. That's so boring and it's kind of depressing, but a little jazz.

00:47:48
Speaker 5
Hands, a little comedy. And then it's.

00:47:51
Ben
Like a spoonful of sugar makes the medicine go down to quote another good musical, not my lyric there.

00:47:57
Roy
So, so besides, rabbi David, we're going to have to scratch him for a moment who is your favorite character that you've created?

00:48:07
Ben
Oh, that's an easy one. Great question. And I haven't answered for you. He is probably the patient who gets the most airtime. He is the one who forms a deep and sweet connection with the rabbi. His backstory is inspired by a real life person. People always ask me like, are these real people? And I say, the stories are true. The details are changed to protect anonymity. Yeah. Anyone who was with me at center for hope, hospice would immediately know who this character was based upon. A real life gentlemen, who, I'll just say like Leroy is based upon a man who grew up in Bed-Stuy Brooklyn. Historically African-American neighborhood in the most populous borough of the nation's largest city. He and I connected in real life over that common, experience in Bed-Stuy. We actually have a funny dialogue moment where he says, I grew up in Bed-Stuy and I say, I used to live in bedside.

00:49:20
Ben
He said, another young white guy who lives in Bedstein.

00:49:26
Speaker 5
Laugh about.

00:49:27
Ben
Gentrification, but it's true. When I lived in Brooklyn, I was that white guy in bedside. Anyway, the man who Levi was based upon, and the Leroy character as well, he played church Oregon in a big black church. The real life person, he told me that he played for over 50 years. Wow. So he started as a teenager. He took his first piano lesson when he was 11. He first took over the junior choir in his neighborhood black church when he was 15. He first played the big service when he was 19. He played all the way until his sixties. Sadly, he suffered a stroke late in life where he lost the use of one hand. I kind of, I don't include all of those biographical details in fictionalized version of that person named Leroy, but he was a retired church musician and his song, the gospel song is all about being thankful for the body that he had.

00:50:28
Ben
I, I imagine this might be one of those spots where even our non hospice people can relate. If any of your listeners happen to be older than they used to listen up. I'm guessing whatever age you are, if you're youngest 40, like me, or freakishly young, less than 40, what are you doing on this podcast? I'm just kidding. We love our young listeners, but if you're 50 or 60 or 70 or 80, or wow, you're 90 or holy moly or a hundred plus I didn't know, a hundred year olds can listen to podcasts, whatever age you are. I'm guessing there's something in your body that isn't working as it used to just at someone point, it was worked with some aging people of different ages. I'm just going to put that out there. I can say as a 40 year old, my body hurts in ways.

00:51:16
Ben
It didn't when I was 20. I present as a young man, I've worked with a lot of geriatric patients who are 60, 70, 80, 90 it's part of aging, even when you're decades, God willing from the grave that our body changes and our body evolves. I'm guessing if you've spoken to doctors and social workers, this is a big theme. The, what I call the betrayal of the body, your, especially if you're lucky enough to be cognitively with it as Leroy was, or the real life lead, I was here and a lot of joy and a lot of stories and he could crack jokes and he could tease me about my inept guitar playing. We had so much fun together in real life. I think the fictionalized version of that character also reflects that love and that friendship, his song though, is meant to highlight that we can hold intention at the same time, the pain of, that betrayal of the body and his case, the loss of one hands.

00:52:20
Ben
We couldn't make music. In my case, I'm 40, but I can't play rugby anymore because I had too many concussions and my back hurts. Maybe if you're 60 there's changes with who lives at home with you anymore, maybe you've switched from golf to tennis or tennis to pickle ball, or pickleball to wee bowling, depending on how your body is. Right. Like that's part of the aging process. Leroy in his song, he is like raising them as faithful people say, he raises up the holiness with these hands. I played for the Lord with these hands. I prayed with a cord. That couplet highlights the whole only experience it was of using his body to make music for God. On subsequent version, he stands up for what's right. He marches for justice and so forth. Our bodies break down, whatever agent's stage, we're at, there's this aspect of grief about we can't do the thing we used to.

00:53:24
Ben
I rugby and that's a great 40 year olds lament, oh, I can't play rugby. Crimea, irregular grimy.

00:53:32
Speaker 5
Cry me a record. There's my senior moment.

00:53:36
Ben
I'll tell you, I hung up my cleats. It was a real loss because I played for 10 years and I loved it. This is not the right podcast for it, but I'll tell you, it was an amazing experience. For me, that's like the quintessential youthful, Ben, I'm sure all of your listeners, you have something, right? Whether it was the time when your love life was hot and heavy, or you were a great athlete, or you thought you looked better than you ever did, or you were making most money or whatever is like you were youthful power moment. Eventually you age past that. You kind of have this nostalgia for what that was to you. I try to acknowledge that throughout the play, in a playful way. We talk about sex, when we talk about work, when we talk about travel, like those are things that kind of evolve as we age.

00:54:24
Ben
That is difficult, but it is real. Now why is Leroy is such a great character in the play? He is the one who is yes, wise enough to help the rabbi get better at his craft. He also can match wits with him. They play this game where, how a lot of Christians are really good at quoting the Bible line and verse Jews are not that good at it. Fun fact, even clergy. Some Jews are good at quoting line and verse, but none of them are as good as their Christian brothers and sisters. It's just like something Christians are good at and also Muslims. So, Leroy figures that out and he's like, blah, dah. And, and the rabbi is like, and he turns around and Leroy is like, what are you doing fiddling with your phone? He's like, rabbi Google, it's a dumb, but it killed in the audience.

00:55:18
Ben
The thing that he has though, so that he, and that he brings to him, it's friendship. It's perhaps a surrogate father or grandfather figure. That's not made totally clear, but we do come to learn that young rabbi David is missing the older generation. We all have those older people in our life, who after they die, let's be honest. They are often mythologized in a kind of way. I feel that way about my grandfather of blessed memory. I'll tell you, grandpa Bernie, my father's father was a man who I only knew until I was 12 because that's when he passed, but he was so beloved. He was a postal worker in New York city back before ups. The guys, they also did the parcel post, right. He knew everyone in a, a four square mile part of Rockaway. He knew hundreds of people and he knew when their birthdays were because then the gifts arrived.

00:56:23
Ben
He knew about their births and marriages and divorces because he brought them the stuff. I think about him and I know he was a complicated man, but like for me, grandpa Bernie, the myth is just friend to the world and sweet, gentle soul. I think I might have written some aspects of grandpa Bernie into Leroy. I'm just, I'm actually making this insight live on camera with you too. I'd never made that connection before, but I think writers, playwrights songwriters, we always try to borrow from our life, without stealing. The title life, will it still snow when I'm gone is actually borrowed from a poem with permission by my mother-in-law. Her poem had to do with a woman imagining life after death in new England. I just took the conceit of the poem and wrote it into a big ballad for Leroy. I just imagined it had to be a gospel song because he was accompanying gospel his whole life.

00:57:28
Ben
Which actually brings me to maybe the last musical offering at the end of the play. I'm not going to tell the whole story can get of a synopsis on the website, I think, or just book me, right? Yes. I will tell you this as spoiler alert indicated earlier yes, many of our characters die because that's what happens in hospice care, right? So the most dramatic, sad, difficult moment of the play is probably Leroy's death. We see it in front of us. I will give you a tiny introduction and serenade you and your listeners. Okay. Awesome. So rabbi David is getting ready. I'll just read the little intro. It's late in the day. It's late in the play before rabbi David heads to his car to drive home. He pops into Leroy's room for a quick visit. They talked together quieter than usual. After a few playful pleasantries, Leroy says rabbi I'm feeling tired.

00:58:35
Ben
Rabbi David offers to play him a lullaby to help him fall asleep. Leroy nods, weekly and smiles, and most subtle of ways. Rabbi David sits near the bed and plays the following song.

00:58:55
Speaker 0
I'll stay right. He time to sing. Tuck you in far dream. So sweet. Having a way life's complete it's time to sing. I love about so sweet heaven away lights come well, that was beautiful band.

01:61:04
Terry
Gosh, that's twice. You've got.

01:61:08
Speaker 5
To, you got one more. Do you cry two times two? How dare you?

01:61:17
Ben
It was beautiful. I'm glad you found it. Beautiful. Can you tell me and the listeners, Terry, what was it about that song just now that brought tears to your eyes,

01:61:28
Terry
Heaven waits for you. I mean, just, it was just all of the emotions together and then that were just all of it, everything, it was beautiful. It was, I just imagined myself.

01:61:46
Roy
Calming. Sometimes it's like, we fight that death until, we had actually had a guest this morning that her mother waited till everybody got around. Then, she was easy passed on or, passed easily. I think a lot of times people that seem like they fight that till the very end and this is a message that, it's okay.

01:62:11
Terry
Like you still have stuff to do, but just not here, really not here.

01:62:17
Ben
Yeah. That's it interesting that the phrase that you said just now, Roy it's okay. I've experienced this many times in my travels as a hospice chaplain, both as a trainee. More recently, my final unit of training was in a what I call a circuit hospice here in Maryland. Shout out to just a hospice social service agency, hospice care. I traveled one day a week for a year. In addition to my job as a Cantor, I was a hospice canter, a hospice chaplain rather one day a week. I would be here and there usually four or five visits per day on the day that I worked. Sometimes I would see someone who it was kind of holding on. Sometimes I'd see someone who was quickly fading away, but it is an experience we've seen time. Again, Roy and Terry that the person in the bed is hanging on for someone outside of the bed.

01:63:22
Ben
It's very important for the person who they're waiting on or their loved one, or the person who they hope visits. Can he make it to the bed? And I'm not like making fun here. This is a very real human drama. I've seen play out dozens of times where grandpa is waiting for the grandson to call or Skype. Once that happens, he feels like he can let go, right? Or sometimes everyone gathers vigil style all day. Everyone thinks the person's going to go. They don't. They returned to the hotel room and the person dies in the night. That is very common it's as if the person, even if they're like, non-communicative a lot of times it seems that seriously ill and dying patients, they kind of know when the loved ones are nearby and they kind of know when they're not. This is fascinating because you can't interview the deceased person after they die.

01:64:18
Ben
Did you die on purpose in the night after your loved ones left, but, all joking aside like that is a very common occurrence, I believe because the person, whether they're like cognizant of it on some, on the surface level, or if it's a metaphysical thing, I, I am not a, an expert on death and dying, but I've been around it enough to say that people often wait for a release, right? they wait for permission. I've heard a million stories and I'm guessing you have from your various guests where someone will say, mom, it's okay to go. And, I would encourage your listeners. If, if anyone listening today has a loved one who is in hospice care or who is in the hospital, fighting what we call a battle of diminishing returns. I might lovingly suggest that you have a conversation. If you haven't already, where you tell how much you love them and give them permission, say, I love you.

01:65:23
Ben
If you need to go, mom, if you need to go dad, it's okay. Because a lot of times people are hang on beyond when they need to beyond when they're comfortable, because they think they need to, for the person outside of the bed. This was actually something I did as a chaplain too, is I, I would counsel the loved ones who were struggling with anticipatory grief. Oh my God, my mom is dying. Help me Cantor. I would sit with them in the waiting room or the coffee area and we'd talk it over. I would always encourage them as I'm encouraging your listeners and viewers, like you are doing the right thing to be here. Now, you don't have to move in. You gotta go home and shower. Right. I had that conversation with a few people who were doing vigil for like days and weeks got a shower.

01:66:09
Ben
You got to rest, can't move into the hospice, along with your dying loved one. Being there, if you can, is great. I might offer also, were talking earlier about the virtual tour, Terry and Roy. I would say that one of the silver linings for this terrible Corona plague is all of us have become a lot more fast style in this medium. Right? Right. We've gotten, we've gotten better at working the camera and working the audio. What does that mean? That means we don't really have an excuse not to visit our elderly grandpa. Grandma, mother, father loved one, whether they're seriously ill and dying, or it was just like a lonely old person in a nursing home. You have no excuse. Now I'm not trying to guilt all.

01:66:56
Speaker 5
Of your listeners, but find them that.

01:66:59
Ben
Look, I have like a crappy old iPhone, but with the power of FaceTime, boop, look there I am. Right. Some of the most moving stories of chaplaincy I heard, especially in the early pandemic, Roy, when New York city was being rabid. I remember this was the first time I cried for the pandemic. I read this very moving story about chaplains at one of new York's biggest hospitals at the, if your listeners remember nearly a year ago in April, it was when it Crested in New York city. We all realize that as a nation like holy crap, this is dangerous. Especially in the cities, especially among our older and vulnerable. There was a story of chaplains being so overwhelmed with the quantity of deaths and the fact that they couldn't hold hands anymore. They couldn't embrace with arms and proximity, the loved ones. Well, what became their saving grace? it's not as good as holding hands and being there, but I I've read stories.

01:68:03
Ben
Perhaps your viewers or listeners have heard too about chaplains being like tech assistance, they're like facilitators and certainly social workers and activities directors, shout to all of your eldercare people listening. You guys have all been so creative to try to make that connection via Skype, via zoom, via face, time, all the tech. I, I would remind us God willing, we will all get vaccine soon. We can return to so-called normal life. Let's not forget how we've all learned to make these connections through the computer, through the phone and so forth, because I will acknowledge, as I did at the beginning of the interview, Terry, like, it's not easy to visit all the people who are dying. It's not easy to visit elder care facilities, even the fancy ones like in Rockville and Bethesda that look like hotels. It's still a little depressing. I mean, let's be honest, let's call a spade, but the people there are all individuals with loved ones and those loved ones.

01:69:05
Ben
If they visit, they are doing an amazing thing. If they forget to visit, well, give them a call. Yeah. Can I.

01:69:13
Roy
Mentioned in that, one of the, it was a telling picture from that time period is that one of the hospitals had got a bunch of orchestra or chorus orchestra stands from somebody and they had all the, iPads set up on the stands where they could take them into the residents room. Yeah, yeah. Help them out. So, but it's a good thing. I don't think we take advantage of that enough is that sometimes, if we can't be there being on the VIRtually there, just being able to see or have somebody see us, it's the next best thing. We need to figure out how to make that happen.

01:69:50
Terry
There aren't any reasons why now in this day and age, there aren't any reasons why you shouldn't be able.

01:69:56
Roy
To, and we can't sell our elders short that we can fix, they can figure out how to do it. Having science saying they just can't do it is really not an excuse. We can figure out a way to make it happen for them. So,

01:70:07
Ben
Yeah. Yes. When safety allows, I also encourage us to put our teenage and 20 something and even elementary school, age kids to work as tech assistance with our elders. I happened to be the proud father of a 10 year old girl who I overhear in virtual school being like tech assistant to three or four different professional teachers. It's very funny, but any of you who are at home with your students in virtual school, that you may have overheard this conversation too. If you are lucky enough to have elderly parents who are still alive, if you are not personally fabulous with the tech, maybe the younger generation is, and that's a nice way to bridge the gap. Hey grandma, this is how you use FaceTime. It's a nice way to make that connection.

01:70:58
Roy
Well, Ben, thanks so much for taking time out of your day to be with us. This is such an exciting project. You know, we are excited. Hopefully we can get the word out and until you can return to, live theater, at least the, this is awesome for groups with the big screen TVs or I like what you said about popping it into the resident's TVs. A lot of ways to take advantage of this. The, you know, it's this grieving process. I don't, people always talk about closure. I'm not one that buys into that because I don't think it is. You never forget. It's never closed. You always think about it, but helping us to deal with that grief as we go through the process. Also those of us that are left after that process as well, that help us deal with our grief, where we can get on with living as what the person that passes.

01:71:50
Roy
That's what they want us to do. They want us to get on with our life and live a good life. But, we can still kind of balance that, keeping them in our memory, but yet moving.

01:71:59
Ben
Forward. Yeah, that's right. They live on in our hearts. They live on in the memories. Yeah. And, and, if there's, a big message from the play it's that the stories and songs of our lives live on after we go, yeah. You know, famous rock stars. I'm also a music teacher by day. I tell the kids, someone like Michael Jackson or Whitney Houston, they died, but they live on forever through their music. That's the power of celebrity or fear, Humphrey Bogart, you live forever on the silver screen. Yeah. For just regular people, it is about sharing the stories. Yeah. That's what we're trying to celebrate in life. Review the hospice musical. Yeah. Who are you, what did you do there? Can you go.

01:72:53
Roy
Back to it? You are, what we said at the beginning of the show, building on your tech segment there is that, with all the tech that's available, the recorders on the iPhones, the video, there's no reason that we can't Chronicle, part of our life in writing our talk to our parents, our grandparents get the N I think it's good to have it in their words. If we can capture their audio are even better video of them. Think about how your young kids that really don't know them, that will be so beneficial to them at some point in their lives. Take a few minutes to figure out how to make that work, Chronicle that story, for sure. A musical. Yeah. Or write a music. Yeah,

01:73:37
Ben
No, please. You can write a musical about a non hospice subject. I don't want there to happen with my mother-in-law. According to family legend wrote a great musical at the same time that someone else also did a musical adaptation of the secret garden and the other one made it to Broadway.

01:73:57
Speaker 5
No, no one else write a hospice musical.

01:74:02
Ben
However, I would love to hear from you if you've enjoyed the conversation today. And, I, I just, if I could, I'd love to end with, a line of gratitude. We, we end the play being grateful for the life that we live and for the opportunity to visit and connect, in the end. I thank you for seeing through the nonsense in the end. I thank you for being your holy self in the end. I thank you. My newest best friend in the end. I thank you for grace at the end. Pray for me. Hold my hand. Stand with me while I can stand. Rest is coming soon. I thank you for letting me be in your room. Light of your hope Sprite in the glue. So grateful to have Matt. You wonderful. You are wonderful. You.

01:75:15
Terry
Oh, that's awesome. Well, one more.

01:75:18
Roy
Time. Tell us where they can reach out, get some more information on life, review on yourself.

01:75:26
Ben
You got it. Yeah. Life Review, The hospice musical is the name of the project. My name is Benjamin Kintich or with the lyrics along with the team of composers, Michael Miller, Jason Spiewak, Andy Bossov. Our website is life review, musical.com. L I F E R E V I E W M U S I C AL .com. I hope I spelled it.

01:75:50
Speaker 5
Right to MOU. See.

01:75:52
Ben
Life review musical. We have a form on the website where you can inquire. I will be happy to be in touch. We also have a trailer video that's beautifully made. You can see some footage from our last live workshop. If you're having trouble picturing it, you can see us with of jazz hands, some audience shots to show that weren't always in virtual land. More about the history of the show. It's kind of an interesting story. Six years in the making. Yeah. And, I would be delighted to have you the listener or the viewer to be part of our virtual tour for 2021. So be in touch. Okay.

01:76:29
Roy
Okay. That sounds great. Y'all reach out, find out more about it. It's going to be enlightening and, we will definitely, once you get a few live performances, under your belt there, we will definitely get you back on. We'd love to talk to you again, see how things are going. Keep up with the projects. Yeah,

01:76:47
Terry
That's right. Learn how to say y'all properly. Y'all gonna die.

01:76:54
Roy
All right. Well, thanks a lot. That's going to do it for another episode of educational. Of course, I'm Roy I'm Terry. You can find us at ageucational.com. We're on all the major social media platforms. Of course we will put all of Benjamin's and spell check it and we will put it on and the shell air as well. So, we're on all of them, social, excuse me. We're on all the major podcast platforms, iTunes, Stitcher, Google, Spotify. If we're not a one that you listened to, please reach out. Of course, a video of this interview will go up when the episode goes live. Until next time, take care of yourself and take care of your family. Thanks, Ben. Thank you everybody.

www.lifereviewmusical.com

www.ageucational.com

Caregiving and the Workplace, A Way to Bring Harmony to Both with Amanda Varga

Do you have a loved one that's aging and needs assistance? It can happen fast. In most cases families are very reluctant to discuss what the loved one wants prior to an acute event. Then families are left to guess. If you are a caregiver, taking care of yourself is very important was well. We can take care of others if we don't care of ourself.

About Amanda

Amanda Varga is the Owner of CareTreks, LLC, which is focused on supporting Family Caregivers of aging loved ones by providing the skills, knowledge and resources they need to be more confident and competent Caregivers.

Amanda’s caregiving experience started at age 11 when she was the neighborhood babysitter.  Her first work with the elderly was in middle school, as a volunteer Candystriper at a local nursing home - yes, the red and white striped uniform and the cap!

While earning her Bachelor of Social Work degree, she also provided specialized respite services for children with special needs.  Immediately after graduation, she worked in brain injury supported living, quickly moving from direct care to management.  After some years in the corporate world (primarily in HR and Executive Team roles) and having three amazing children, she found herself back in the professional Caregiving realm as both an overnight-awake hospice sitter and Director of Client Care for a home care agency.

Caregiving became far more personal when she and her husband moved his parents in with them in July, 2014.  Both required 24/7 care and supervision with hands-on assistance.  Amanda's personal Caregiving Journey had begun...and the following month her three kids started 4th, 5th and 12th grades. 

Life was complicated, to say the least.  It has been this personal experience with caregiving that inspired the idea behind CareTreks – to find a way to support others who find themselves in a family caregiving role.

www.caretreks.com

www.ageucational.com

Full Transcript Below

Caregiving and the Workplace, A Way to Bring Harmony to Both with Amanda Varga

Sat, 5/29 8:52AM • 45:42

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

caregivers, care, home, people, talk, mom, support, kids, caregiving, doctor, options, adult children, terry, amanda, child, conversation, find, living, feel, solution

SPEAKERS

Terry, Amanda, Roy Barker

Roy Barker  00:00

This is Roy,

Terry  00:00

this is Terry.

Roy Barker  00:01

So we are the podcasts that is chronicling not only my journey through aging, I'm not gonna throw Terry under that bus. We're chronicling my journey through agency, his time while she does not age. But also our parents, we both have parents that are living and so, you know, as we go through the challenges of the different things that they need and trying to help them through the different obstacles of aging. We want to put that out there. Just to let you know you're not alone. It's happening to other people. But also we have professionals Come on from time to time to give us some advice, things to look at just to talk about. Maybe talk to the seniors talk to the adult children talk to caregivers, just to put out some information that is hopefully useful when today is no different. Terry, I'm gonna let you introduce Amanda.

Terry  00:51

Yeah, Amanda Varga is the owner of Care Treks LLC, which is focused on supporting family caregivers of aged loved ones, by providing the skills knowledge and resources they need to be more competent and competent caregivers. Her caregiving experience started at age 11 when she was the neighborhood babysitter her first work with the elderly was in middle school as a volunteer candy striper and heard that in a long time. at a local home. Yes, the red white and red, red and white striped uniform and that gap. while earning her Bachelor of Social Work degree she also special she provided specialized respite services for children with special needs. Immediately after graduation she worked in brain injury supported, she worked in brain injury supported living quickly moving from direct care to management. After some years in the corporate world. And having three amazing children she found herself back in the professional caregiving realm as both an overnight awake hospice sitter and director of client care for homecare agency, caregiving became far more personal when she and her husband moved his parents and with them in 2014. Both required 24 seven care and supervision with hands on assistance. Amanda's personal caregiving journey had begun and the following month her three kids started fourth, fifth and 12th grades. Amanda, thank you so much for coming on the show. We're so excited to talk to you about your journey.

Amanda  02:26

Thanks for having me. That was That was great. It's kind of funny to remember all the different things.

Roy Barker  02:32

Oh my gosh, it's funny talking about the hat team, because I just, I was looking at an old picture the other day of nurses. And you know, they used to have that little cardboard hat that they were around all the time. So

Amanda  02:43

well, it's a candy striper. You had to earn your cap, you earned a cap and you are independent. It was a ceremony you had to be there for so long. And so you had to earn the right to wear the little striped hat and it's your pins. Oh

Terry  02:54

my gosh, depending on the hat and the striped pins. That was your captain's lapel stuff. Exactly.

Roy Barker  03:04

Well tell us what how do you support caregivers in in your endeavors that you have going on, you know, we want to talk about, eventually we're going to talk about some different things, you know, things that have come up with you and your life and things that you have seen also, but I just want to say, uh, you know, let you tell us how that you are supporting our caregivers out there now.

Amanda  03:24

I definitely it changed when COVID came because care trucks really launched the end of 2019. And that was not you know, hindsight is 2020. Right? So we're clients, and either the original iteration of care tracks was to one family at a time work in their caregiving space, see what they needed to make caregiving easier and more efficient in their home. And obviously, that wasn't going to happen through most of 2020. So I shifted gears a little bit and changed my message and focused more on how to support people through other businesses. So one was to come alongside other service providers. So you know, if you're working with a wealth manager, financial planner, they have a solution for you at every stage of your life. Right? They can help you if you're a young professional or young family or growing family and into retirement, but they don't have something tangible to support you when your caregiver. And for me caregiving came in in midlife, right? For some people, it comes much later when they're caring for a spouse or a sibling. And so by coming out with care tracks, they can offer their clients, hey, I have someone to help support you and you're struggling in this. Let me connect you with care techs that that's one area, okay. I'm really excited about is actually, I want to bring care checks into the workplace as an employer sponsored benefit. So all of these working family caregivers who are trying to juggle their professional world, and their homeworld and it's, as you guys know, it's kind of chaotic in your head, even if you're not doing all the direct hands on stuff. It's distracting during your day and who's going to take mom to the doctor tomorrow and, you know, should I be worried about the symptoms I'm seeing And being able to say, hey, my employer offers something I know I can access this information and get local referrals, local information to support me. That's really where I think career tracks is going to go.

Roy Barker  05:13

Okay. You know, and that's, it's an awesome journey because, well, from, from my experience, the daughter in law is the one that typically ends up taking care of everybody's family, you know, of the husband's family, I guess. So. Terry does a good job at supporting mine, for sure. But also, a lot of times our caregivers have to leave the workforce. And so Either that, or, you know, I was talking to somebody the other day that was telling me the, they have an employee that has some issues going on at home, and it's really affected her work life. So I think, don't want to speak for you. But I think that's the message that you want to try to get out there is how do we manage that as a company as an employer? How do you manage and help your employees where they can still take care of those family members and do what they need to do but yet be a productive part of their company in their job as well?

Amanda  06:14

Yeah, and that productivity is really the key because these employees are losing productivity, they're losing, you know, money, if you really bring it down to it with their caregivers, or their employees being distracted by what's going on in their lives. And if that employee needs to leave, they're going to have the expense of turnover. Now they've got to recruit and train and onboard someone new. So doesn't it make sense to find out? How can we help this person rebounds? things? Do we need to talk about a job share? Do we need to talk about, you know, obviously, flex time, or working from home is much more prevalent now, which is great. But it doesn't mean when that employee is working from home, they're able to focus as much either. So how can we bring support into the home and educate on Adult Day programs or home care, whatever the options may be to help them be a more effective employee and still be a caregiver to their loved one. So it's a matter of everyone's situation is different,

Roy Barker  07:07

right. And it's, it's becoming more prevalent with the baby boom, generation moving that way, with our lifespan. growing longer, you know, it's like, there, this is not something that's going to peak in a few years and just go away, I think this is going to be around for a while. And you know, this worked a lot in the senior living industry. And of course, you know, we expected the peak years and years ago, but people have put it off longer people are healthier, longer, people are getting out into their 80s, before they decide to make that decision, not 65. Like, you know, it was once thought it could be. So these are going to be things that employers are dealing with for years to come, you might as well embrace it, and figure out how to navigate through it.

Amanda  07:57

Yeah, be proactive with it, have a solution, your employees before it becomes an even larger issue, and you're scrambling. So that's definitely the message I'm trying to get. Let's Let's help these folks before the crisis.

Terry  08:09

Well, and, and, and along the way, I mean, we're, we're all getting older, so it'd be nice for us to have something in place to be to be able to, you know, deal with that as well, you know, yeah.

Roy Barker  08:26

Yeah. And when we talk about turnover, you know, like you said, it's a, it's a two phase deal. First off, you'd lose the productivity. And then the second part is somebody's gone, you have a vacant space. And so I mean, this, this can affect your company for months. I mean, it's not like, Hey, we hired somebody yesterday, and our problems are solved. Because even if they've been in that same industry, there's still a lot to learn about the company that you go to work with. So I and I do a lot of, in my consulting practice, I do a lot of work, you know, focus mainly on that turnover. So that's why it's kind of a hot button for me is that, you know, we really need to figure this out, because we're losing good people that could work this out. But the I think everything grows, that tension grows up to a point that they're like, I just can't take it anymore. And the easiest solution to leave the job and go do this full time. And then maybe after two or three months, they get things settled down and worked out. So if we could have this, you know, I'd say it but an intervention, if we could have an intervention early here, help them solve these problems. You know, what a great solution, a win win for everybody.

Amanda  09:35

Right? Right. And it's funny when you're talking about that turnover piece. The Harvard Business School did a study called the caring company they released I think, in 2017. And what they found is statistically, it's your C suite level, who will leave the workforce completely right the entry level and the lower level of mid level managers. They may need to leave a workplace and find somewhere else that currently fits. They can't afford to stop altogether. But your CFO It was even clean one day and like, I'm out, you know, they they've made their mark on the world they play have a great retirement plan, and they're working now because they really enjoy it and they're fulfilled. But mom is sick, right? Can I do Am I gonna stay in this job that I really don't need? Technically, for my retirement, I'm gonna take care of my mother, and all of that knowledge, all of that industry knowledge and all of that corporate knowledge that walks out the door. Whereas like you said, if we can have some kind of intervention or support you for that breaking point. Yeah, awkward balances, I can have the job share, how can we make this work out for everybody?

Roy Barker  10:36

Yeah. And I think it's the educational part, which I'm sure you know, that's a big component for you. But it's educating the the employers and educating the employees, sometimes they don't really realize that the burden is not all on them, there are avenues or things that you can do to get help. You know, and I doubt I can list all of them. But you know, there's homemaker services, to have that person come in and maybe go through there, help them with the mail, just make sure they're okay. The other great thing I think that we've talked a little bit about is the, the FaceTime or whatever, some kind of a video conferencing that, you know, it's easy to try to set up a dedicated machine for the senior at their house where you know, you can check on them. But anyway, there's a lot of solutions out there, I think it's a matter of just thinking that situation through.

Amanda  11:33

Yeah, and making it Okay, I think for caregivers to or family members who have said, Don't worry, I'll take care of you someday, or their parents has said Promise me, you'll take care of me. Everyone is cut out for the hands on part. And maybe for the person taking care of mom means finding the most appropriate place for her to live, and keeping that parent child relationship alive visiting often and taking them to lunch being involved. But maybe not the hands on stuff. And that has to be okay. And a lot of people struggle with that saying I promise Mom, I take care of her. Yeah, this may not be your thing. So let's find the best way to take care of there's a big

Terry  12:11

there's a big guilt issue involved there. Is, I mean, uh, gosh,

Roy Barker  12:16

yeah, well, and the other thing is that we taking care of them may may be just like you, I mean, good gravy, if I had, if my mother had to depend on me to take care of her, you know, she would pull her hair out and scream. And so she, she knows that for us, the best thing would be for me to find somebody that is more capable of taking care of her and just kind of be that manager to make sure that the care is being delivered to her. And, you know, you bring up the other point about our living situation. You know, there's so many tools to keep people at home and coming out of the senior living industry. You know, I believe in that, I think it's a great option. But I don't think it's the only option. I think, you know, there are a lot of tools at our disposal that we don't even know about electronic, I think, you know, their bed monitors and other kinds of monitors that are non obtrusive, they're not videos all the time, but things that we can do in order to kind of ensure some level of safety at home.

Amanda  13:19

But yeah, I mean, one of the ones I was most fascinated by ages ago was is a GPS tracker that just goes in your shoe, you plug it in at night when your care recipient is sleeping, and then it goes in the in their shoe. And if they happen to wander, you know where they are, right, but they don't feel like they're trapped. It's it's that just in case, you know, but there's, there's, again, things where you can have a video monitor at home, but there's also just motion sensors you can have in your home. So no one feels like they're constantly on camera, but a family member or medical professional could say boy, they haven't crossed the hallway into the bathroom for like 18 hours or they're crossing that hallway to the bathroom every 30 minutes. You know, maybe we need to check in on something. So there's not a video but there's still a way to monitor right so be amazing, you know, innovative options right now. It's it's really fantastic. You know, I

Terry  14:09

wish we would have had the track the GPS tracker for my dad who had Alzheimer's. Oh my gosh, he he was a bull. He just did not want to give up his car keys. He didn't you know, and there were a couple of times when he when he left the house and was gone. He was he drove and he was gone overnight. I think two days one time it was not a good to if we hadn't had not that the amber I mean, the amber alert was out but I you know, we had no idea where he went. And he didn't he didn't even really know he just Yeah, well, I was down here and I met some new friends and you know, he just wanted to socialize, I guess but I wish we would have had that that would have been a godsend.

Roy Barker  14:56

Yeah, and a lot of I think you mentioned the shoe monitor. You know that The A lot of times people don't want to wear the bracelet or the pendant because they feel like it is so obtrusive that they're, you know, I think that's a cool thing about the little shoe deal is that a lot of times they don't even know that they have it on. Right. So but the, you know, there there is that time, though, and this is a conversation, that's difficult, but there is going to be a time where we do have to, you know, people become a danger to themselves at home, if they have fall habits, fall habit well, habits, but also if they have fall traps in the house, and you know, there are a lot of things we can do to remove those obstacles, extension cords, throw rugs, but sometimes, you know, like, I'll just say from my parents house, they have different levels, you know, it's not that big, but you go down into the bedroom up to the bathroom, the the tile is like a some kind of a, almost an actual rock looking stuff. That's very, I mean, it's hard enough for me to walk across this trip. And so, you know, there are things that we kind of have to do these in home assessments as well, to see is it truly safe for that person to be here?

Amanda  16:19

Yeah, and I mean, caregivers can definitely access you know, most occupational therapists will come into a home assessment. I'm part of the living in place Institute, so certified living in place professionals, anyone with that designation has access to a checklist, we can go through the home room by room, and let's talk about some hazards. And let's talk about some changes. And then, you know, there's there are home modification experts and home designers who specialize in that kitchen and bath, especially because those are usually the most dangerous, who have all sorts of amazing solutions that can change someone's home into a safer, more accessible place. So a lot of people think, Oh, my home's not quite right, as I'm aging, but I love my neighborhood. And I know my grocery store, and I know the mailman and I don't want to leave. There are ways to mitigate what's dangerous in your home, and make it a safer place to live. And there's professionals out there who that is exactly what they specialize in.

Roy Barker  17:15

Yeah. Yeah. And it's, it's a difficult decision, especially, you know, if somebody is not ready to go, you know, sometimes people are like, Oh, I'm out of here, I'm ready to go. And I think that's kind of the way we are, we're looking forward to it would get us an apartment where you can shut the door and go traveling, do stuff and not have to worry about all the maintenance. But, you know, that's the way we feel today. Now, talk to me, again, when I'm 85 or 105, I may have a different story, then. Because it's that it's like that loss of sometimes it's a loss of independence. But there are a lot of Salafi emotions that are wrapped around that as well.

Amanda  17:53

Yeah, yeah. And you know, even when you're looking at someone who's lost a spouse recently, you know, and that, I want to stay here, but I don't if I can stay here, and should I stay here, or maybe they're just ready to go, I'm going to go move by kids, I'm moving on with kids, I'm going to find an independent living by my kids, you know, that there really are enough options to meet the needs of almost anyone if they're willing to think through what they want. And to be a little flexible in the specifics. You know, there's options.

Roy Barker  18:20

We were talking pre show, it just came up, you know, you've gone through some recent situations, I know. And we were talking a little bit about the Tella doc. And, you know, part of the other thing is like, sometimes it's hard to get people to go to the doctor, it's hard to get me to go to the doctor's not something, not something I want to do like to do. And you know, it's like the last resort. But the nice thing, I think that the pandemic has opened up more and kind of shown us this teladoc feature, we can do some things remotely. And so we were just talking about, you know, maybe not solving all of our problems, but that initial Should I go to the doctor, you know, I'm feeling this feeling that but I don't really want to load up and go sit in the emergency room, even though vaccines are out and you know, we're seeing a numbers go down, you know, there's still that COVID effect that's out there. So let's talk a little bit about, you know, how we could use that. The teladoc system kind of as a, yeah, you really need to go seek more help.

Amanda  19:29

And it's a great, it's a great initial tool, right? Because just like you were saying, if you are caring for an elderly person, especially if their health is already frail, yes, maybe experiencing a health issue. But do you really want to take them to the emergency room and have them sitting with someone else do you really want to take them to the waiting room, the doctor's office, and you know, this is one of those silver linings of COVID because more physicians are open to this option. You know, they're signing on with their practices to have access to a telehealth option. are working to inform all their patients, hey, this is this is my preferred method of initially speaking to you, let's you know, let's talk about your symptoms, let's you know, take your temperature, a lot of folks have a blood pressure monitor in their home. So we have we have a blood pressure, monitor pull thoughts, we can do blood sugar, we can take all those measurements in our home, and let the doctor know, hey, this is what we're seeing this what we're experiencing. So I think that as more and more people are open to the idea of having this kind of a face to face with their doctor initially and become more comfortable, it's going to be that much better in the health system, and especially for those in rural areas. I know out here that's been a topic of conversation on the networking meetings I've been on is how do we get appropriate hair in response to those more rural areas where they're going to have to drive to three hours to potentially get cared to see if maybe they have COVID? Okay, let's back this up. Let's talk through symptoms and say, yeah, you should probably make the driver know you're treated this way. Let's talk again tomorrow. So yeah, this has been one of the again, it's been a great silverline because telehealth has been here for a while. Yeah. Now it's becoming more prevalent and more people are more comfortable with it.

Roy Barker  21:07

Yeah. And it's just the The other thing too, is, you know, you don't want to be an alarmist. It's like, Oh, I woke up with the pain this morning. Oh, my gosh, I need to run to the doctor. You know, most people aren't like that. And so, but there's got to be, there's got to be a responsible range of time, because, you know, as we were talking pre show, it's like, Yeah, well, you know, I woke up with a little pain this morning. I'm just gonna shake it off, walk it out. And then next week, it's like, still there, maybe even worse, and then two, three weeks, and then you go to the doctor, and they're like, yeah, I mean, if you came in three weeks ago, you know, we could have nipped this and been done with it. So I think it's just trying to find, you know, where is that line? Have? We need to seek further help, it's not going to go away by itself, or we can't self medicate with aspirin or Tylenol or whatever.

Amanda  21:59

Right? And it gives, especially the caregivers or the adult kids some peace of mind, right? Because if mom or dad, they're resistant to going to the doctor, I don't want to do this. I don't need this. It's one thing like you said later, it might be worse. But you've also got these adult kids who are worrying now. Okay, I'm not going to be they're not going to sleep soundly in case that phone rings the middle of the night, they're going to wonder is mom Okay, are we ignoring the wrong thing? So in some ways, it really kind of helps both parties. Yeah. Make sure the health of the elders okay, but we're also going to get some peace of mind to the the adult children. And that goes a long ways,

Terry  22:29

right? Oh, yeah. That peace of mind is a huge. It's a huge thing.

Roy Barker  22:36

I can't even imagine, you know,

Amanda  22:39

sometimes you need to phrase it like that. Dad, can can you go to the doctor, for my sake, I realize you're probably fine. But let's, let's just we'll do the telehealth thing. We'll polyp the doctor and I'll feel better knowing that you're okay. Yeah,

Terry  22:51

you'd be the heavy I mean, as much as you can.

Roy Barker  22:55

Right? Yeah. Yeah, the it's one thing, you know, we live very close to our parents, but I can't imagine, you know, living out of state because they can, they can pick up the phone and call and we can be there in 20, you know, 20 minutes easy. But, you know, you think about these adult children that live across the country or something, and it's just got to be such a burden that they carry.

Amanda  23:19

Right, right. And that, you know, if we can connect those caregiving long distance caregiving children to a care manager, local to mom and dad who can kind of step in when needed, or, you know, be aware of other services, and, you know, help encourage mom and dad to stay as independent is, is they're able, but you can't give that adult child some peace of mind.

Roy Barker  23:40

Right? It's huge. Yeah, exactly. So let's get back to the employer. I know, you know, everybody is different. But, you know, is there a general checklist? And, you know, kind of what is the? Because I think when as I was thinking through this, everybody's gonna have a little different situation. So it's not going to be generic. But I think the biggest part may be I don't, I don't want to call it the shame. But admitting that we need help admitting that this is a burden for us is, do you see that as kind of some resistance?

Amanda  24:15

Only to a certain point? I mean, you know, when you talk about how it tends to be that that daughter in law, or maybe it's that oldest daughter, who's who's taking I mean, we, I am pretty much a classic case where those people who you've got that level of responsibility we also have that caregiving genuine material bodies, okay. And there's still comes a point at which you know, okay, I'm, I'm way overwhelmed. And it's, it's just there's a lot of guilt, you know, not as much shame I think, but guilt, because you start to second guess, every single decision. Yeah, you know, when it told me a couple years ago there, the guilt is a caregivers constant companion. And it's true because no matter what decision you make, No matter where you decide to spend your time, there is an opposite place you could be spending your time. You know, for me, if I'm focusing on my in laws, am I not spending time with my kids? or caregivers? If I have mom and dad in my house, it's not really my thing? Would they be better off in a community, you place them in a community? Would they be better off at home? Right. And I think that, first of all, giving those caregivers an opportunity to say all those things, you know, it's really hard to say I love my mom, I just really wish I wasn't dealing with this. It's not that you wish mom wasn't there, you just wish situations were different. caregivers have so much guilt and confusion with I don't even know what I'm supposed to do or how I'm supposed to feel or how I'm supposed to respond. So the idea is to just educate them, talk to them about what their options are, give them solid solutions for you know, any of these options are good to keep, keep mom in your home, and you'll be the caregiver, heat mom in your home and bring in home care, heat mom in your home, but during the day, she's at an adult day program, have mom in a community care setting and you go visit mom, and you're involved with mom, every single one of those is a good decision, right? It's just a matter of what makes the most sense for you. And that I think is the biggest thing for caregivers is understanding their options, understanding many of these options are good choices. And it's okay to make a decision and, and move forward with it. Because otherwise we get stuck, you know, and you're just spinning your wheels, you're not doing anything, you're not changing anything, you're not exploring anything different. So people often don't even realize what their options are, you know, there was a different choice. And that's really where that customized help comes into play. Yeah.

Terry  26:44

Oh, god, I'm sorry. Well, I was gonna say that. So many times, we don't we don't know what we're looking for. Because we're having to react to a situation, you know, something has happened to your parents or whomever you're you're going to be in the caregiving role with and you just you react and just do what comes naturally to you, and you don't know what you need to look for. So I think it just seems to me that there are a lot of people just kind of going through the motions and just responding to the, the emergency situation and just doing the best that they can and not knowing that all these other resources are out there until they kind of stumble across something. That's what we think, you know,

Amanda  27:32

your loved ones not going to have an emergency when everything is called right. It's like, we've never had an ear infection. On Wednesday afternoon at one o'clock, it was always at six o'clock on a Friday. And I know when when you hear that mom's had a stroke or something has gone wrong. Most likely these adult children have jobs, have social lives have groups are involved with have kids in sports. And like you said, it's just reactionary. What is the immediate thing I need to do right now because I can't even think a day or two ahead or week ahead. And that's when lack of knowledge limits their choices. There's a resource to say, What do I do? This just happens? Okay, like a deep breath. Let's talk about some options and steer you in the right direction.

Roy Barker  28:18

Yeah, no, it's gonna, that was the next point I was gonna make is that within, you know, kind of a family advisory role that you can take is talking these things out. Sometimes it's like, I had a great idea, but when I actually verbalize it to Terry, it's like, oh, man, that sounded crazy. So, you know, sometimes it's just sometimes it's just having that sounding board, somebody that you can talk these things through, but then also, with your experience, and with your knowledge, you know, you've got that, you know, kind of that deep and playbook does like, Okay, well, this is happening, these are things that I have seen done in the past to give them a choice, instead of either being reactionary or thinking that there is no choice. Right, exactly. And the other, I think that the other part that goes along with that is just support caregivers. A lot of times they, by the way of the situation become isolated, you know, they don't get to go out with their friends and socialize. Maybe the person that they're caring for is somewhat non communicative, where it's not like, we can sit and have a great conversation and watch TV and do things together. So I do have some human interaction. But anyway, so having supportive somebody that they can reach out to to say, Hey, this is happening, what do I need to do and can kind of the other part of that is making sure that they keep some outside friendships or, you know, just somebody that they can call and talk to, that gets them away from that caregiving role for just a few minutes. That's

Amanda  30:01

Yeah. And that access to respite, understanding where they can get rested, and what kind of support they can have. And it's funny, I have a presentation that I do for senior service providers. And it's meant to talk to them about what it's like from the other side of the table. I mean, I worked in the industry before I needed services. And it's the other side of the table is a little bit different. And with COVID, it actually gives a very tangible example, you know, so many people know, you say, Okay, what happened to you, for you during COVID? What happened in your life? Well, I couldn't go where I want it to go, I couldn't see all the people I wanted to see at my life really wasn't my own, I was limited to certain times you go to certain places like that is the life of a family caregiver, depending on the needs of your carrier. I mean, honestly, our lives in our home, didn't change as radically as it did for other people, because we were already limited to being able, we couldn't just pick up and go somewhere. Because we have adults we're caring for it's a little different than bundling up your child and putting them in a car seat, it's not always going to be the best option. And so, you know, there have been a lot of things we haven't done over the last seven years as family caregivers, because it just didn't make sense. And we need to make choices of well, maybe we shouldn't do this, because you know, so and so it's not really feeling well, we don't want to bring something home and my kids have been washing their hands when they come home thoroughly for years because you didn't want to get grandma grandpa's sick. You know, they were my kids were sick, they were isolated in our house already, because I cold consent, someone's already frail to the hospital. Right. So, you know, it helps for people who are not caregivers to understand that. That feeling of restriction and being limited that they felt during COVID isn't going to change that much for some family caregivers. And that gives people I think, some empathy to say, Hey, can I come sit with your mom for a couple hours you need to the movie, go, Jim, oh, have dinner with your husband. And hopefully people will step up and be willing to support cameras and keggers will be willing to ask and say, Hey, I'd love to have a little bit of freedom to can you Would you mind sitting with my mom, you know, I'll make you dinner and you know, it just come and hang out with her

Terry  32:06

and not feel guilty about it. I mean, know that you need the respite I mean, for for your well being as well as for who you're taking care of.

Amanda  32:17

You're much better caregiver, if you step away from it. I definitely learned that I needed to step completely away from everything for a couple of days, and then come back and I'm ready to take it all on again. It's so hard to

Terry  32:28

recognize that too. It's like, oh, wait a minute.

Roy Barker  32:32

Yeah, and we don't think about it's our loved one. But I used to be a long term care ombudsman volunteer here in the state of Texas. And one thing that we noticed is that when abusive or borderline abusive, you know, maybe verbal, or just how residents were being treated, usually came when somebody was doing the caregiver was exhausted. And it was a person that would never ever lash out. Under normal circumstances, but you know, we asked them to double over working, you know, 24 hours just because they need a body there. So that's the other part of that whole respite business is that, you know, I think when we step away from it, we can come back refreshed. But also we have to know that that is when the when we're tired, when we've been doing it for, you know, days and days and days in a row. That is when the I guess the greatest chance for things to go wrong, either for us to lash out and say something or do something we wish we hadn't have done, or for us to miss that sign or not take them serious. So it's it's really important for a lot of reasons.

Amanda  33:45

Yeah, yeah. safety of your care recipient and your mental well being you don't want to regret that later. Like, I can't believe I said that to Mom, I was just tired. Yeah. You have to be able to recognize in yourself when it's just time to step away for a little while.

Roy Barker  33:58

Yeah. And I think Terry mentioned this, too, it's not selfish. I mean, we shouldn't feel bad, that we need to have that time to ourselves just to, you know, decompress for a minute. And because, you know, I think caregivers tend to fall into this trap. It's like, they're there all the time. They're on 24 seven, and they just don't feel like they can ever step away, which kind of leads into one more thing. I know, we're running a little long on time. But the other thing is communication. Before the fact and setting up

Terry  34:33

pre everything.

Roy Barker  34:34

Yeah, a pre plan and knowing that everything is not going to always go according but you know, I'll use Terry and her sisters. You know, they communicate very well about what who's going to do what for their mother, and not waiting until it's that emergency. And like you said, the emergencies usually happen, you know, Friday night at 10 o'clock at night, where nobody's around anywhere. And then now I'm trying to call my brother and my sister Say, Hey, this just happened. What are we gonna do how we handle it? We're, you know, some things you can kind of talk out prior to it and then see, you know, if this happens, these are some things that we want to do even have a person like you, Amanda who's we've got on our speed dial that, you know, something happened, we can ring you up and say, Okay, look, we're in this position, you know, help us navigate this. But it's because again, going back to the volunteer ombudsman situation is, and I tell the story all the time, but it's the when I took that position, I thought I was protecting the nursing home residents from the big, bad corporate nursing care providers. And after being in that role for a while, what I figured out was my biggest job was protecting the residents from their family members, because family members can, unfortunately, do some bad things. But not it doesn't even have to be bad. But it can be like, disagreements with the siblings be like, Well, I think we need to know we need to do this. Well, do we even know what mom or dad would have really wanted? Have? We talked about that? Kind of having that game plan? Because there's no use wasting two or three days arguing amongst siblings before we can actually take action?

Amanda  36:19

Yeah, and that I mean, it talks to the fact that you need to have conversations way before things are even potentially wrong. You know, I took an advanced care planning certification class through a local hospice in cu and shoots and talked about how to help facilitate conversations with families, because it's interesting. We don't we don't do a death very well, here in the United States. It's just it's something we don't want to talk about. And the thing is, is quite often, the the elders, the parents, I don't want to let the kids know what's going on. Yeah, kids, they're afraid that kids are going to hear well, when I die, and everything's gonna spiral off this like me conversation. And the kids don't necessarily want to bring it up, because they're afraid mom and dad are gonna hear well, when you die, you know it in make it be a negative thing. But it's really about encouraging families to have an open conversation to say, you know, I've, this is what I would like, I want to be here as long as I can. So something happens to me, you know, use medical intervention, or I've lived an amazing life. And the last thing I want to do is be like someone says, Well, I saw on TV or heard something about and I have my documents in place, you know, you need to make sure folks have their, their medical power of attorney, their financial power of attorney, they have their last wishes written out, so that those kids aren't arguing. You know, there's so many, you'll hear these families who Yeah, cuz back generations, you go back a couple decades, and it wasn't uncommon if you don't have seven to 12 kids. Right, right. Talking about mom or dad right now, and they're maybe late 90s, early hundreds and something goes wrong. And you have seven to 12 kids who are not? Oh, my God, yeah. get ugly, you know, so it's a matter of having those conversations. For the parent side, have those conversations for the sake of your kids? Yeah, let's let's decrease the stress kids are going to go through, they're going to miss you so much, and feel the pain of your loss. Let's not add arguing into it as well. And present for those kids to make sure they're not putting mom and dad through medical procedures that mom and dad never wanted.

Roy Barker  38:23

Yeah. I just gonna say for goodness sakes, write it down and share it with every one because it's like, you know, that's another thing that you find is like, I've got this document, but one per, you know, one of the seven kids hasn't has access and everybody else like, Well, yeah, where did that come from? Did you wrap that up? And, you know, just the validity of that. And the other thing that we've kind of started talking about is having this conversation, from the child perspective is we don't just have to blurt out, what do you want when you're dying? Or we don't have to make that a negative or a, you know, kind of in that direction, but we can start the conversation with, hey, let's talk about your family, you know, this, like, you know, what, tell us about what did you like, as a child or, you know, try to learn some facts that may be you don't really know, but then, you know, you can kind of ease into the more difficult things like, you know, so if something were to happen to you want to be on life support are, you know, do you have these other documents in place? The other thing is, where are they because, you know, what I've found again, I'll talk a little bit about, you know, some of our family members that they know that they have all the documents, but they're kind of like it's like an Easter egg hunt, because they're, they're at the they're at the safety deposit box. Well, we took them to the lawyer to get some stuff updated. Okay, we've got him at home. So it's like, you know, it's kind of that move and target where are they really at right this moment. So letting people know, having them as one thing but you got to make sure people know where they And how they can access them. Because it's sometimes it's things that need to be accessed fairly immediately. I mean, we don't have time to spend a week 10 days digging, digging through closets and garages trying to find this information. Right.

Amanda  40:14

Right. Well, and I was, I was talking to an attorney earlier this week, who said, If you keep your official documents in your safety deposit box, and you have died, and no one else is a signer, on this, it will you kind of need those documents to get permission to get into the documents. And it's a whole process to go through. So, you know, let let your family know where your documents are. We don't want them to read them, seal them up in an envelope and say that this is where they are. Yeah. And something happened to me. Here's where you come and get that make sure everybody knows where to find them. Because you don't want to waste time, like you said, looking looking for the Easter eggs. Exactly, exactly. problems right away, and find out what those you know, what those wishes are? And you know, ideally, you've had a conversation already, but you need to have them in writing for the hospital.

Roy Barker  41:01

Yes. Yeah. All right, Amanda, well, thank you so much for your time. I know, we went a little long, but it's just a lot of great information. I feel like our audience needs this, you know, we need to hear we need to, you know, me and Terry even need to be reaffirmed of these things, make sure that we're taken care of and know, you know, have that planning and the communication in place before things go, you know, before there is that emergency, so we're not in a panic mode. And then also, what we'd like to ask our guests at the end of the show is what is a tool or a habit? What is something that you do in your daily life that you feel like really adds value?

Amanda  41:43

adds value. You know, I make sure that I have that priority. I still have kids at home. No, we are caregivers still for my father in law. But I still have 1517 and 24 year old who are here. And they are my priority. And I think that being a caregiver has shifted my perspective on how I live my life. Because while again, this is not to say we're unhappy to be caregivers, but there's things I don't want my kids to have to do for me. And so I will focus more on taking care of myself now at my age, so that there's less of a chance my kids will need to step in and provide the physical care for me later. And I think having that perspective to it has has definitely changed some direction for me. I mean, it's not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but it changes my motivation in many of the decisions that I make what I'm doing today, how will that impact me 30 years from now? And how will that impact my kids? And I think for that middle generation of caregivers, that's, that's a big deal. Yeah. Sure. Your focus on something important?

Roy Barker  42:54

Yeah, that's really important. Something that we have started talking about a whole bunch, we may have to coined this phrase, but you know, don't outlive your wellness. It's, you know, nobody wants to be a burden on their kids or their spouse. And, you know, we kind of jokingly talk about that all the time is, like, I'll tell you and some of our solutions we come up with, but anyway, you know, it's like I just, you know, I would hate for something to happen and burden Terry down or burden my kids down. So you're right, we need to take good care of ourselves and think about the decisions we make today. You know, for our health care, our Well, the way we take care of our bodies, I guess and what are those ramifications going to be like in the 30 years from now?

Amanda  43:36

Right. That's not to say you don't sleep now and then but maybe you hit the gym a little bit.

Roy Barker  43:39

Exactly, exactly. You

Amanda  43:41

know, that chocolate cake is good today, but I am gonna have more vegetables tomorrow. Yeah, no, it's those things out because they it all adds up. Right. Exactly. It's it's down that path.

Roy Barker  43:51

Yeah. All right. Well, Amanda, thank you so much for taking time out of your day to be with us. So if you would tell us how, who and see who can you help, how you can help them and of course, how they can reach out and get a hold of you.

Amanda  44:06

Sure. So let's start with the easy part first. My website is easy. It's just caretreks.com, care treks. My email is [email protected]. Oh, number 720-512-7441. And I'm certainly willing to have conversations with almost anyone. I am really, truly working to grow an employee benefit piece that carry Texas offering in the Denver area first, just because I'm very embedded here. But that does not mean I'm not ready to start expanding my network and talk to organizations outside of Colorado and start growing this. That's ultimately the goal is to have a network of care treks, guides around the country in these in the cities to help support so if there's an employer says, This is what we need, we'll figure something out. We'll make it work. So no, but certainly reach out through the website.

Roy Barker  44:57

Okay, awesome. Again, thanks a lot. that's gonna do it for another episode of educational Of course, I am Roy, Jerry and you can find us at www.ageucational.com we're on all the major social media networks as well as the major podcast platforms, iTunes, Google, Stitcher, Spotify. If we're not a one that you listen to listen to your podcast on. If you'll reach out we'd be glad to add you. Also, you know, if you're a professional in this space, if you have a good family story, from the caregiver or the adult shop perspective, we would love to get you on and let you share your story with everybody. So until next time, take care of yourself and take care of your family.

www.caretreks.com

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Loneliness, The New Smoking with The Same Negative Health Consequences with Terry and Roy

Reading an article the other day that said loneliness is the new smoking! Research from the HRSA, Health Resource and Services Administration went on to say that it is like smoking 15 cigarettes a day. This is very timely information. Seniors have always struggled with loneliness and now with the pandemic, it is exponentially worse. Visit a senior today and every chance you get.

About AGEUcational

AGEUcational.com is dedicated to AGEUcating seniors and their families by providing quality information and education content on all aspects of aging and how to age better. Our contributors use their aggregated 80 years of experience in the senior living industry and the field gerontology to develop relevant and helpful content. AGEUcational.com will focus on all aspects of aging and how to age better.

As we live longer our wants and needs change. It’s important to stay informed about changes and new developments in order to continue living the best life possible. It is AGEUcational.com’s goal to help you thrive during the aging process, not just survive. Our senior years can be the best years of our lives if we plan for and embrace the changes aging brings. Topics include but not limited to financial, health, senior living, travel, and much more. Information is compiled from other trusted resources as well as content developed by The AGEUcational.com team especially for our readers and their families.

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Full Transcript Below

Loneliness, The New Smoking with The Same Negative Health Consequences

Sat, 5/22 6:06PM • 19:58

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

people, loneliness, seniors, older, wellness, health, talk, neighbors, life, lonely, guests, smoking, thinking, episode, emotional, physical health, pandemic, nice, podcast, pain

SPEAKERS

Terry, Roy Barker

Roy Barker  00:03

Hello, and welcome to another episode of educational. I'm your host, Roy,

Terry  00:07

I'm Terry.

Roy Barker  00:08

So this is our journey through not only through our aging process, but mainly through, you know, our parents are getting a little older, needing a little bit more help and attention, kind of why we started this just to try to put as not only to you know, talk about our experiences and what we're learning, but also, to put it out there for everybody, and, and have guests as well, we have some professionals in the field that Come on, from time to time, that, you know, hopefully, they're providing some good information for you. And today, we today we want to talk a little bit about loneliness. The I was, I was listening to a podcast this morning. And the it was actually a marketing podcast, but he was talking about, you know, building connections, and we, they were talking about isolation. And it was interesting that he made a comment that they have said that isolation is as hard on people as smoking. And up to they say, being having, you know, severe loneliness actually can be like, smoking 15 cigarettes a day. And when I heard that, I just kind of mean, it made me stop for a minute, think about that, and think, wow, you know, how bad is that not only, you know, for seniors, because seniors typically are isolated, whether whether they are in a community, you know, an institutional setting, or if they are, you know, in their home a lot of times, yeah,

Terry  01:46

they, you know, they find themselves alone, unexpectedly, possibly, because of the death of a spouse or a partner, separated from their family, their, their kids have grown, their grandkids are getting older and busy, and maybe they've lost, lost some of their mobility. And there's just so many different things that can come up. And we don't even think about, you know, we're just so busy and, and pulled into our own lives that we just need to remember to try to reach out to our parents or our you know, are older friends, and just make sure you know, just make sure they're okay, just reach out to them and make sure they're all right.

Roy Barker  02:30

Yeah. The so once I heard that it made me, you know, kind of made me stop for a minute, because not only just seniors, but you know, after all this COVID. And people not want to get close that. I just basically just did some quick research. But I found another study that said that loneliness and social isolation, account for a 29% increase in the risk of heart attack, and a 32% increase in the risk of stroke. Wow. Yeah. I mean, that's crazy, that I guess I, you know, I've been fortunate enough in my life that I've always been surrounded by hopes, ranking other countries. You know, I've always been surrounded by people in my life. And I guess I've just never been that severe, you know, had that severe of loneliness that, you know, it can actually be a health risk for people

Terry  03:32

well, and evil, even. Even if you're surrounded by people. That doesn't necessarily mean that you're not Oh, no. But yeah, a high blood pressure, heart disease, obesity, depression, all timers, other cognitive disorders, many everything comes out to your health. I mean, it all comes back to your health.

Roy Barker  03:58

I was trying to read my writing here. I wish I had written.

Terry  04:01

Oh, now you know how I feel. No, mine's bad, too. I write for myself. Not anybody. Oh, my look

Roy Barker  04:08

down because I can't even read it here. But I was one of the it was the H RS A, which is the Health Resource and servicing administration. It's it's a governmental agency, but they, they're, they have an article that was just calling loneliness and epidemic and this was, I think, written in 2018 or 19. So it was you know, pre pandemic, but they were saying that it 43% of feet of seniors feel lonely. And 45% increase risk of and Yeah, that'd be nice. Find out that word was

Terry  04:54

I see.

Roy Barker  04:55

That's a risk of something.

Terry  04:58

I was gonna say I saw I saw, okay, so social isolation and loneliness did not always go together. And this is on the National Institute on Aging website and they say, you know, 28% of older adults in the US are 13 point 8 million people live alone on this, but I mentioned that I, that just caught my eye a little while ago,

Roy Barker  05:24

yeah, I'm gonna just while we're doing this, I'm just going to pop up this h, h, r s, a site, h bar, a while I'm doing that, we'll kind of keep moving on here. The automatic, they were saying that, also that, you know, talking kind of going into smoking theme that if you are lonely, it makes it even harder to quit smoking. And then the other thing that was interesting is they, and I didn't read the study. So I'm going this the second hand information, but the the, they said they did a study where they hook you up with electrodes, and then they were just saying that loneliness lit up the same spot as actual physical pain, you know, like, somebody hit me in the gut or something. And it just went on to say that the pain medicine that you may take for, you know, the the knee problem or, you know, whatever, whatever health issue, that it had the same effect on people that were lonely as to so you know, I guess it's, it's not just maybe a feeling or emotional it, I mean, it really, it's something that can be measured just like a physical pain.

Terry  07:00

Well, and I wonder if not that I'm questioning that about the medication, but I wonder if it's because, you know, sometimes sometimes as pain meds or narcotics, and it makes them makes you kind of groggy and forget things. So, I wonder if that has a little to do with, you know, yeah, probably just,

Roy Barker  07:20

you know, it's like, it's like the, you know, the pain that you feel physically it just thinking those medications just kind of deliver you, you know, they block that pain sensor and just kind of deliver heat away from that, right. So the other edge is found it here said the what the other part at 43% of seniors feel lonely on a regular basis, and 45% increased risk of mortality, and seniors who report feeling lonely 45% increased risk and mortality. That is crazy.

Terry  07:54

Oh, my gosh, 45%. That's crazy. Yeah. I don't even know how to begin to come

Roy Barker  08:06

at it. You know, that was one reason why we wanted to do a little, you know, mini episode over this, because it was just, it was such a shocker. it and it was it's just really hard to believe. I mean, I'm not saying I don't believe that there's enough evidence out there that it's the truth. It's just that it's so far out of my realm of belief or my realm of experience, that it's it was just like, wow, when, because that's actually what spurred me to do the research on this was because I wanted to see if they count was down the truth, or if he is making this up? And, you know, obviously, he's right on it. So. And it's funny, because, you know, I don't know, if we don't recognize it in ourselves. But you know, we were talking earlier about, there was a study years ago that when, when the researchers asked the individual to describe themself, they always were very healthy. Nothing wrong with them. I mean, like to the point of about 70 75%. But yet, when they were asked about their friends, their neighbors, those people, like maybe 25% of the time, were healthy and in good shape. And so it's just another way that we self identify. And you know, that was always a big thing in senior living whenever we would, you know, whenever people would go in and tour communities. One of the biggest things that people would say is, wow, I'm not as sick as all these people. These I don't look like these people.

Terry  09:52

Yeah, and, I mean, I guess I guess it's easier to be on the outside looking in and See, you know, picking out, although, you know, I'm my worst critic, you know, so I can I can make myself have any kind of ailment not that I'm a hypochondriac or anything, but I do think I mean, I feel like I'm in pretty good health. I have some aches and pains from, from, you know, yeah. Getting older.

Roy Barker  10:23

Yeah. And it's just hard to, you know, and I think it's a very much older age, but I think it's hard to self identify that, you know, these are my people that I'm, you know, I don't move around as much as good as I used to. And

Terry  10:39

so and so has a walker now. No,

10:41

yeah. Oh,

Terry  10:42

I know, what I was gonna say is that I, I remember seeing seeing a story about or a meme or something about, you know, it's like, like, go into your high school reunion looking around thinking, holy cow, who are all these older people, older looking people, like, man, I don't think I look that bad. And then they're looking at you thinking the same thing? You know? Yeah. That just hit me funny.

Roy Barker  11:09

Yeah. And there's some of us that some of us have aged better than others. And, you know, we I guess it's been it's been a while since we went to, to mine not well, you know, it's been a year. year, maybe. Yeah, I guess it was a year or two. Anyway, you know, there were some people there that looked the same and hadn't you know, they had aged very well. And then there were some that you were like, Holy smokes, you know what happened to those

Terry  11:35

teachers. Although that would be fun. Yeah. So Oh, speaking of Sorry, I digress. I know you're getting older. Your birthday is coming up. Oh, yeah. Sorry. It's a big one do. Alright, I'm out. And yeah. Just because

Roy Barker  11:58

somebody told me the other day, I look younger, in person than I did in my picture. So I was I'll take that as a small victory. I'm happy with

Terry  12:07

that is

Roy Barker  12:09

gonna get me a choker like Stevie Ray Vaughan, nice to have and I'm really lucky with a

12:14

teenager do

Terry  12:15

leather strap? some spikes on it?

12:21

That'll do it.

Roy Barker  12:23

Well, that's, that was really all I had. And I think it corresponds with this being isn't this older Americans month? Is it was it the whole month? Okay. Yeah. So this is older Americans month, and, you know, kind of it, it was more off the cuff last week with our, with the title. And something we said is, you know, celebrate with the senior whenever possible. And anyway, I think this just reaffirms that message that, you know, we really need to think about, think about our friends and relatives, and it could even be a neighbor. You know, I think we talked a little bit about the recognize, and if somebody Moser yard takes care of it, and all of a sudden they haven't just go knock on the door and ask, you know,

Terry  13:12

are you thinking about it right away? You know, yeah, I don't know what that.

Roy Barker  13:16

Yeah, we have reason if somebody was jumping on the front door next door next door. And, you know, they were complaining in this, another lady spoke up and just said, you know, that happened to one of my neighbors last year, she keeps her yard immaculate, he got looking terrible, and, you know, come to find out she was nursing her husband through cancer treatments, or, you know, something like that they were in and up, got somebody to mow the yard, you know, so it really worked out good. But instead of, I guess, being grumpy and complaining, maybe we should try to find out what's going on and see if there's a way that we can be a part of that solution. So many people so many out there. And I think sometimes, even though they may put up a good front, there's still things that they need at their home. So anyway, just just check on your neighbors, check on your friends, check on your family.

Terry  14:10

And let people let people tell you let them tell you some stories. I mean, I love hearing stories of yesteryear, you know, let them tell you a little bit about their life and their experience.

Roy Barker  14:23

One other thing before we get out of here, I did want to just go over these six dimensions of wellness because I think it's appropriate and you know, kind of this message. So the six are occupational, physical, social, intellectual, spiritual. And if you want to learn more about this, it was developed by Dr. Bill Hitler. And he is the co founder of the national wellness Institute. So I you know, advise, you know, I encourage everyone to go over there, check out this one. website and just look at these six dimensions, and see how they all interact. Because it's it's very important. You know, I think they all play off of each other. If, if our physical health or physical dimension is suffering, then of course, we may be emotional about that, because we can't do what we used to do. If that social aspect of where we can't get out and socialize, it may affect, you know, emotional and physical. So anyway,

Terry  15:33

which has been a huge deal, because of the pandemic, you know, everybody's had to step way back from that social aspect of it. So everybody's suffering from that one, I think, although some people have seemed to thrive in it. And you know, I mean, we've had a good experience.

Roy Barker  15:52

Yes, yeah, we, you know, we talk about that all the time that we almost have survivor's guilt. Because we have, you know, basically, we've thrived through this. It's been nice to slow down, we're at home more with each other, doing things around here. And, you know, it really hasn't dampened our life. We can still get out and go eat about if we want to, but it's just not. I don't know, I just feel like we have slowed way down and you know, used to we just seem to be running all the time.

Terry  16:22

Oh, my gosh, I feel tired just thinking about it. always tired.

Roy Barker  16:28

So, yeah. Anyway, just like we said, check on, check on your neighbors, check on your friends, check on your family take a minute. The other thing I think that you could do that would pay dividends is if you could teach your, your the the senior in your life to FaceTime.

Terry  16:46

Oh my gosh, a technological

Roy Barker  16:49

Yeah, it would be just a really boon for them to be able to actually see you instead of just talking to you on the phone. So it's, it can be frustrating teaching somebody some new technology, but we've got so much now we've got you know, zoom, the face, FaceTime, you know, there's all kinds of

Terry  17:09

house party,

Roy Barker  17:10

yeah, house party, there's all kinds of different platforms that you can get on where you can see the visual and also to for not being able to get to people's houses, you you might can get some insight into, you know, are they still taking care of themself hygienically clean clothes, maybe you see mail piled up on the table or something, you know, dishes piled up, you know, you may get some insights into what's really going on.

Terry  17:39

Yeah, especially if you can't, you know, if you can't be there physically. So I mean, this is a quick way to do that until you can get there, you know?

Roy Barker  17:47

Yeah, exactly. All right. Well, unless you've got anything else, we'll wrap that up.

Terry  17:54

That's it.

Roy Barker  17:55

All right. Well, that's gonna do it for another episode of educational, we do appreciate all of our listeners, we appreciate all of our guests that we've had so far, and we're appreciative for our future guests, we got some great lineup. So we're excited about that. Also, if you have a topic that you want us to talk about, just send us a note, email, social media, we'll be glad to, you know, either covered ourselves do a little research or we can get a professional in that field to come on as well. If you have a

Terry  18:27

certain guest that you want us to talk to. Yeah, that'd be great. I, national global awareness day, or global wellness day. Yeah, that's where it is on June 12. June 12. Second

Roy Barker  18:38

Saturday in June, yep. All right, y'all keep that in mind. wellness is important. I mean, it's, you know, it's, it's important to help us eat rod, it's important to our physical health. And, you know, we just have to think about all these different things and see what we can do. If you're in a bad situation. Let's see what we can do to change that. There's, you know, sometimes unfortunately, it's hard. But in some other circumstances, maybe a few tweaks might make you really improve on the wellness scale.

Terry  19:11

Yeah, give us a holler. I mean, yeah, if you are in a bad way, give us a call or don't post something and post a message to us a comment, whatever.

Roy Barker  19:20

Yeah, we're always here. I

Terry  19:22

don't I don't want people to suffer. No, I don't.

Roy Barker  19:26

Alright, guys, well, that. That's gonna do it. for another episode of educational you can find us at www.ageucational.com we're on all the major social media platforms as well as all of the podcast platforms. interview will go up. We do put videos up when the episodes go live on YouTube as well. So check us out and let us know how we can help. Until next time, take care of yourself and take care of your family.

www.ageucational.com

Protect Yourself and Your Loved Ones From Today's Sophisticated Scam Artist with Debbie Silverman

Seniors typically make very easy targets for scammers. In this story, Debbie's 93-year-old aunt is scammed by a neighbor and a caregiver. It happens so easily and way too often. We must be diligent for ourselves and our loved ones. It can happen to anyone in the blink of an eye

About Debbie

Debbie Silverman is an International Speaker; two-time Effie Award-Winner for Marketing Excellence; Human Behavior Specialist; Conversation Expert; President, Consumer-Perspective LLC, a consumer research company; and NLP Practitioner.  She is the creator and co-author of the Award Winning Amazon #1 Best-Seller, “It’s Just a Conversation – What to Say and How to Say It in Business”; and the author of the newly released book, “Protecting the Rabbit Ears Generation.”

Having witnessed fraud against my aging aunt of 93, I realized her story and countless other frightful scams, including the “Grandmother Scam,” “Charity Scam,” “IRS Scam,” “Sweepstakes Scam,” to name a few, along with tips to protect one’s money and family, need to be told.  That’s why I wrote “Protecting the Rabbit Ears Generation.” If you think it can’t happen to your family, THINK AGAIN! 

[email protected]

Video Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wV0GkvDvANQ&feature=emb_logo

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Full Transcript Below

Protect Yourself and Your Loved Ones From Today's Sophisticated Scam Artist with Debbie Silverman

Sat, 5/22 1:48PM • 39:41

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

scam, check, money, aunt, bank, debbie, gift card, emails, sweepstakes, wrote, rabbit ears, people, fraud, granddaughter, grandchild, talk, phone call, call, lived, account

SPEAKERS

Terry, Debbie, Roy Barker

Roy Barker  00:00

Live introduce Debbie.

Terry  00:01

Yeah, Debbie so LLC and in business and the author of the newly released book Protecting The Rabbit Ears Generation. Having witnessed fraud against my aging aunt of 93 I realized her story and countless other frightful scams, including the grandmother scam, charity scam, IRS scam, sweepstakes, scam, to name a few, along with tips to protect one's money and family need to be told. That's why I wrote Protecting The Rabbit Ears Generation. If you think if you think it can't happen to your family think again, Debbie, thank you so much for being on the show. We sure appreciate it. You got to say,

Roy Barker  00:42

let's say that was the I'll tell one story before we get to started. That was probably my worst dad moment is. Back in 2000s. There was a presidential debate that preempted the World Series or something like that. And so we had a dish and I had to go to rabbit ears. And we lived in a kind of in a valley. So I told my daughter I said, Well, I got like 100 feet of CO x I told my daughter take these rabbit ears and just walk as far as you can walk. And then she still when working. I said okay, hold them over the top of your head. All the fake picture finally got down. Then I said could you just stand there for about three hours watch this baseball game?

Debbie  01:23

She didn't do it. Now. She daughter? Yeah.

Roy Barker  01:27

Now she called me out on that one pretty quick, but

Terry  01:29

could have paid her.

Roy Barker  01:32

That'd be well, thank you so much for taking time out of your day to be with us. You know, when? When we talked earlier, I think we all can agree this is such an important topic to talk about. Because I'm telling you, it's not just you know, our seniors typically fall into the trap a little easier. But I'm telling you, these things are coming at all of us constantly, every day. And you know, I just got one before we came on the air. It was a simple call for I didn't answer it. But it went to voicemail. And it said please text me at this, you know, crazy phone number there. So I can only imagine what kind of trouble I might get into if I was to actually respond to that text. You know, who knows what it is or what they'd be captured, but probably not good.

Debbie  02:19

These scammers are getting very creative. Very creative. Yeah.

Terry  02:23

Yeah. So what so what prompted you to to write the book this? I recall you talking about? I want

Debbie  02:31

to hold it up so that you can see what I'm talking? Let's see. There we go. Can you see it? Yes. Okay. I wrote protecting the rabbit ears generation, because my aunt was 93 years old. She was in and out of the hospital rehab. And it got to a point one day we were in the hospital writing checks for her. And she called me said let's call the bank, make sure we have the right amount in the bank and see what's going on. We spoke to the person the bank about her checking account. And they said yes, the amounts right. And she said she proved it. She said yes, the amount is right. And then I went to the bank to do some more banking for her. She made me to a power of attorney a her her account. And I went to the bank to do more business for her. And I happen to see a statement that said there was a online transfer from her savings to her checking. And I said, Did she call and say please transfer the money from the savings to the checking? And they said no, no. She made an online transfer. I'm like really? I said How is that possible? When she doesn't have a cell phone? She doesn't have a computer. She doesn't have an iPad. She has you don't know microwave? She's got a TV with rabbit ears that the antenna like you were describing there. Well, she did it. She made the online transfer. So this opened up a whole can of worms like what is going on here. It turns out after I did some detective work and I got a detective involved. It turns out that there was a tenant that lived above her. And the tenants boyfriend somehow got my aunt's information. And also somehow got some of her checks. And he created an online account. And they were writing between the boyfriend and I believe it was my aunt's age. He also had an aide in the house because she needed some assistance. We believe that together they were working together. And he got the checks and checks were written in insane amounts. Like we're talking five figures, you know, insane amounts like $50,000 to cash, cash and on the bottom to the memo it would say something like roof repair or something like that, and she never ever had that done. And so I said to the bank, I said, Wait, man, what's going on here? There are these checks written to insane amounts to cash, or to this name that I didn't recognize that turned out to be the the AIDS boyfriend. And I saw what's going on with this? Well, your aunt, I guess, approved those checks. And I'm like, No, she never approved these checks. And this went back and forth. As I said, I got a detective involved. And when we were in the hospital with my aunt, a very close friend of hers, who became a close friend of mine, we were talking about it and I said, Look, I don't want to tell her what's going on, because I didn't really want to upset her that much that that could kill her. You know, I was really worried about that. So we didn't tell her what was happening. And turns out, she passed away like a few weeks later. And I got a detective involved that filled out all the paperwork and all that stuff. And we're talking about fraud in the amount of about $130,000. Wow. Yeah, I mean, it was just insane amounts.

Terry  06:08

And you didn't I'm sorry for interrupting but you you lived in a separate state?

Debbie  06:12

Yeah, I'm in Florida. She was in New York, okay. She's in Staten Island, New York. And I said, I got the detective involved, filled out all the paperwork, showed them all the checks, accounts, I mean, everything. My aunt own part of that apartment building that she lived in the tenant above her had to go past my aunt's apartment to get to theirs to go upstairs to their apartment. So one day, I was in my aunt's apartment cleaning up. And they heard them come in. And the before that happened, the detective said to me, Do I know, Alex? And I'm like, No, no, not really, or no, he asked me Do I know now? mohandro? I said no, but the name does sound a little bit familiar. And I remember that the tenants boyfriend was Alex. And I didn't put the two together at first. And then I hadn't come in through my answer. come in through the front door passing man's apartment. I have my aunt's apartment door and said, Hi, how are you? I want to introduce myself. I said my mom is also part owner. She wants to know who's renting from, from my aunt. So I said, Let me take a quick picture. So I can send it to my mom. And they the boyfriend said now you know what? We'll send you a picture like I got my cell phone. Let me just take a quick picture. So I was playing Nancy Drew. Yeah. And I took the picture, sent it to the detective right away. He wrote back immediately and said this is very, very, very helpful. What they were able to do was match the picture. I sent him to the picture in the bank of the video. And it was how am I and he got arrested. He was in jail probably for all of 10 minutes. He got an attorney involved. Because my aunt had passed away at that point. There the attorney was arguing that, well, there's no proof. He can't nobody can say what's really him. He got off on a misdemeanor. And the whole thing was just horrendous. And then the bank saying that she opened up an online account when obviously that wasn't possible. And I said to the bank, how can you let something like this happen, where so much money is being written out to cash? How do you let this happen? And they said, Well, she had the wrong account. She didn't have a private banking account, she had the wrong account.

Roy Barker  08:44

Yeah, you know, you'd think they would do. And it's been a long time since I've done a lot of business and checks, but you think they'd have that mechanism like they do with credit cards, where if there's unusual activity, or you know, writing large checks, bunch of them, you know, they have like a fraud alert, where they will get ahold of you and kind of check in on you. So I'm very surprised that, that they didn't do that. And the other part of that is I've tried to transfer money before it's such a hassle. It's really difficult for me to believe that that this guy that you know, was able to go through all of this that easy that he didn't have to have more involvement from people at the bank to give them a chance to recognize that that wasn't your and that this is somebody else see

Debbie  09:33

that red dot right and he opened up the account in a separate bank from where my aunt did her banking, and something I'd like to tell your viewers. This is so important. If you have a savings account, and a checking account at the same bank, make sure you're always looking at your balances because a lot of people will focus on their checking account because that's The one they use most often, right? And that's the one where they're taking money out usually in savings and savings. Yes, yeah. If you don't look at both, and something is going on, I can tell you right now, the banks are not responsible if you don't catch it 30 plus five days. If you don't catch it, you don't report it. It's not their problem.

Roy Barker  10:22

Wow. did not know that either. Yeah, yeah. And that the other thing, too, if I'm not mistaken, like with the savings account, they generally send those statements out maybe even quarterly. So you may have to request that you get one of those monthly are, you know, figure out how to check that online. So you can be vigilant as that for those count as those accounts

Debbie  10:43

together. So you get the accounts at least once a month if you're still getting Paper Paper. account information.

Terry  10:52

Yeah, that's crazy. What? So what did you find out about what you tell me about the charity scam,

Debbie  11:01

the charity scan has to do with people calling and saying that they're with a charity. And you know, you if you get an older person who wants to always help somebody, and they believe that the charity is real, and and this could even be a charity scam through a church. And you believe that the church is real, maybe it's even a church you've been to, it could possibly be I mean, I'm not saying all churches do this, I'm not saying everybody should be afraid to go to their church or to donate, right. But the point is, these charity scams happen. People take advantage of these older people. And they know that the older generation are very, they're very giving. And they always want to help and they always want to be part of everything. So when they get a phone call, and they're lonely, remember, they're lonely, they get a phone call, please, you helped us last year, and you may not remember if you did, or you didn't. And all of a sudden, you're giving again and again and again. And they take advantage of you. Well, you gave us $1,000 last year, we could really use your help if you gave us 2500 this year, and then it just builds from there. And this really knows you can't stop it because a lot of these are real, and a lot of them aren't real. So you don't know what's what's real. As far as the charity scams go.

Roy Barker  12:22

Yeah. And I think we also have to make it make people aware that it's easy. Not that I would ever do this, but I could go out and clone a church website. And I could, for anybody from the outside I could look like was that church with the PayPal link or the donation link on that website, and, you know, be funneling all those funds. And that's why we just just want everybody to know, we don't want anybody to quit given it's, we celebrate that giving spirit, but let's just make sure that the people we're trying to give the money to are the ones that actually get that and

Terry  13:01

do your research.

Roy Barker  13:02

Sometimes that's maybe hand deliver in hand delivering a check, or either making sure you mail it to the actual address of the building, or, you know, the best way if you go as walk in there and hand it to the, you know, your priest or preacher or somebody that works there that you know, for a fact really does work there.

Debbie  13:22

That's an excellent idea is to do it in person. Yes.

Roy Barker  13:26

Yeah. Because there's just so much, you know, and the internet is a great, I love it, and I couldn't do without it. But unfortunately, it is given people, huge gray area to operate, where we really don't know, and that we kind of talk about this as we are on the subject is that, you know, be wary of these emails that come out to you that say, Hey, I'm from the church. Here's the donation link, just send it to me or, you know, those that are like, we got one the other day I think Terry did that said, we're following up with a $578 purchase from Amazon. And they have a link that they want you to go in and put your information and I cannot stress this enough. If you get an email that you think is legit or something just always go through the website, pick up the phone and call them don't go through those emails, even if you're fairly certain it is the the institution that's sending it to you because you just never know and

Terry  14:32

they just changed the logo, you know, they changed the logo, just enough to where it's not matching exactly, but it looks exactly like it you know, right and I

Debbie  14:43

even got one is talking about those emails. I got one from what it looked like from my bank, about my account being compromised. And I called the bank instead of going opening it up and going to any links or like that I called the bank and I Is this Is this real? Is this from you? And they're like, No, it's not. And one of the clues for me to even call the bank in the first place was that there were a lot of hyphens in the name instead of just the name of the bank. Yeah. And that's a clue. Like, if it doesn't look like it's real. Always, always check it out first, before you ever open up those emails. And I know it's time consuming at all. It'll save you a lot of money on the long run

Terry  15:23

money and heartache and and not just emails, I mean, text messages, phone calls, all of that.

Roy Barker  15:30

Yeah, we seem to have gotten much like I was saying, we got one I got one prior to the show. But it seemed like in the last week, we have started getting more of fraudulent looking texts that are coming across. So if you don't recognize it, the other thing to always recommend to my parents is into myself and Terry, if we've got a setting on our phone, that if the numbers not in our directory, it just goes to voicemail immediately. And you know, my thing is, if it's a legit call, unless you're waiting on an emergency phone call, let it go to voicemail, see who it is. And then don't call their number by call, you know, if it's your bank, call the number that you generally call for that bank, because definitely there they're starting to use the phone and text a lot more for the scams.

Debbie  16:24

And to that point, to that point, right. Social Security will never text you Social Security will never phone you. They will send a letter by regular us snail mail, right, they will never call you or text you. So if you get one of those calls, or something on your computer, an email or a text, that's all fake. Right?

Terry  16:47

Yeah. That that and the IRS as well.

Roy Barker  16:51

Yes. And the other I think the other part of those is they you know, they try to plant that urgency. It's like, yeah, and for

Terry  16:59

compromised. Ah,

Roy Barker  17:00

yeah. And if you're, well, if you're like a someone that relies on that Social Security check every month to live and somebody says, hey, there's a problem with that you're not going to get it that can put sheer panic because everybody that's ever dealt with that level of government knows that if there was a problem, it may take a month to get it worked out and they can't afford to be without that money. So it strikes fear and on but still, we just have to say, look, there's better ways to check this out. But that's part of the scam is trying to create that urgency to make you say like, Hey, you know, just like Terry's $578 TV, Amazon charge or whatever's is trying to make her emotional to where she's like, I didn't charge that I'm picking up the phone, or I'm hitting that button and put my information in there right this minute. That's where we use you know, that's where the downfall typically is. The

Debbie  17:54

scammers Their job is to create such panic, that all sense of reason goes out the window, right?

Terry  18:03

Yeah.

Roy Barker  18:04

So let's talk about this other one. The grandmother scam because this is actually happened to my mother. Luckily, my daughter was in the same house with her when this happened. So they can put two and two together. But tell us about the grandmother scam.

Debbie  18:20

This is a horrific scam. That happens to a lot of the elderly people, especially elderly women. And what happens is some male you'll get a phone call. And the grandmother will usually answer the phone. And they'll you'll hear screaming and crying grandma Help me Help me and you'll hear a child or young teenager, whatever it might be screaming and crying Help me Help me. And the grandmother will say a grand child's name. June Is that you? June? Are you okay? Are you all right? And no, grandma Graham, I need help. I need help. And then a guy's voice will come on. And it could be anywhere if anything from was in a terrible accident in the hospital was in a crime scene got mixed up with something bad could be drunk. I mean, they'll make up any story to get you to believe that there's a real issue here, right? And what happens next is they'll say, Okay, if you want to get your daughter out of a granddaughter out of jail, which I know it's a horrible place, I wouldn't want my granddaughter being there either. And they'll they'll make that case, you know, they'll make it sound like they're really there to help you. And they'll say if you want to, if you please don't tell her parents because that only takes more time and only holds things up. And we want to get your granddaughter out as soon as we can. And so what we need you to do is go to and they'll tell you a store nearby or they'll tell you to go to a pharmacy and get gift cards and the total crazy amounts like it'd be $2,000 worth of gift cards like $500 each or 50 Do you love by this many gift cards, whatever it is, and we'll call you back. And you give us the code on the gift card. And then we can release your granddaughter and make sure she gets home safely. Or we can get her an attorney and make sure she gets out. Okay. So whatever it is, whatever the story is, they usually ask for a gift card so that right away if you hear anything like that, first of all, you shouldn't be picking up the phone in first place. Let it go to voicemail like you said before, if they do answer and and the story goes on and on and they say, Okay, well, we need to get send us a gift card code. You know, that's a scam. That is absolutely 100% a scam. And once you give the code on a gift card, you've lost your money. That's it. If you go and buy the gift cards, and you never give the code out that money is still yours. Yeah. No, that's

Roy Barker  20:53

a good point and had something really intelligent that I was gonna say next. But it's obviously escaped me. So let's look at the what is what about the sweepstakes scam? How is that one carried out?

Debbie  21:12

Right before I get to the sweepstakes, one, I want to also add for the grandmother scam, okay. Because grandmas want to help the family because they want to be the big hero, right? Because they want to be the one that their grandchild will run to to say, please help me kind of thing. So they will, they will do what they can they'll bend over backwards to help their grandchild. If you create a code, for example, if something like this, God forbid, happens, have an agreed upon code, like your dog's first name or something like that, that they that you know, it's real, right. Other than that, it's a scam. So I just want to let you know that there are ways to protect yourself that if God forbid, you're in that situation, where you think it's real, just say, okay, honey, you know, Snoopy and make up a name and then say, no, that's not Snoopy. It's so and so you know, if it's real, if it's real, you'll know. That's a great. Yeah,

Terry  22:09

it's great. Yeah.

Roy Barker  22:11

I did remember what? Oh, one thing before we move on, I was gonna say the The other thing we had is social media, again, great tool when it's used correctly for good and not evil. But we also have to remember, it doesn't take a lot of snooping around these days, to figure out who is someone's grandchild on social media. So that way, you know, they may have a name. And they may even reach out through social media and say, Hey, I'm stuck. Because the scam that they ran on, our tried run on my mom was they actually had my daughter's name. And she called us says, and I can't remember how they get around the corner, you know, not knowing what they call her grandma or whatever. But there were some exchange initially. And then she said, Hey, this is your granddaughter, Sarah, I'll use a different name. So they said, you know, she said, this is Sarah. Well, my daughter just happened to be sitting across the table eating lunch at my mom's house. And she's like, well, that's strange, because she set and run across the table, you know, and immediately that they hung up. But you know, that was such a coincidence, because my mother is one of those, she would have done anything to help her kids or grandkids out without thinking twice. They had her name. So it was like, you know, this is Sarah need that help. And it anyway, so the point I was trying to make is that, even if they use the correct name, it doesn't take a lot of snooping around to put two and two together to figure out, you know, who's related to who and how.

Debbie  23:50

So it's a very good point about, especially Facebook, and so on, that we put so much information about ourselves out there with pictures and names and so on. That Yeah, it's not it's not that difficult for them to find out information.

Roy Barker  24:03

Yeah. And I just, it made me think about my Facebook setting, I think it still has all this information, I need to go in there and change it back in the old days, when we could trust it. You know, we put everything about us in there. But now it's the probably the less we have the better.

Terry  24:17

Yeah, and watch this friend requests. I mean, you know, so many of those friend requests come over. And if you would just click, you don't have to be their friend, you just click over and see what their Facebook site looks like. And they've got like two photos. You know, they're just starting out and they don't have any mutual friends of yours either. So it's like, you know, don't do that. Just bypass it. Okay. sweepstakes. Is that what Yeah,

24:43

yeah.

Debbie  24:45

Yeah. The Was it the one that's popular now, and we're met a loss of the name of it. Publishers Clearing House Publishers Clearing houses around this time and they will Never ever call you, they will never ever text you or email you. We know from the commercials, they show up at your door and surprise you, right? So if you get a call that you won, publishes sweepstakes, Clearing House Sweepstakes, it's a fraud. And what happens with these sweepstake frauds is they'll tell you, you want a tremendous amount of money, millions of dollars. And in order for you to collect even the first payment, you have to pay the taxes. And then they'll ask you to pay the taxes through a gift card, or whatever it might be, or wire or the money, they'll say, you need to pay the taxes first, before we can send you the money. And people unfortunately fall for this because this is their one. There's one woman one story in my book about this woman, her whole life, she knew she was going to win the Publishers Clearing House Sweepstakes are all light. And she always told her children, I'm gonna win that one day, I'm gonna win that one day. And sure enough, she got the call call that she won. And she didn't tell her children or grandchildren, because she wanted to surprise them with the gift money, you know. And he was she's paying out all this tax money. And there was no, there was no price, there was no prize. I think

Terry  26:17

my dad thought that as well. I mean, he entered it all the time. He but via, you know, via mail, and then he started getting phone calls about it. So you know, $20 here, 20. I don't know, we don't even know how much he ended up spending.

Roy Barker  26:35

You know, a variation of that scam, probably to talk about now that, you know, there are people desperate for employment is there. And I don't remember exactly how it goes. But basically, you know, they want you to you send them, they send you a check for 2500 $5,000. But you have to pay something out of that. And the way that it gets you is you write the check for your amount and send it off to them. And the check that you get from them. After about two or three days, you figure out that it's worthless. So you've already sent your check, it's too late. And then there's no money coming in from them. There's all kinds of variations of that that go around. So just it's, again, it's the urgency, it's being in a terrible position and feeling like we have to act immediately. But just do a little checking on these companies make call the Better Business Bureau try to get a phone number or a physical address. Just be careful. If people ask you for money when you go to work, generally they pay you you should not have to pay them in order to get a paycheck. So just Just be careful with those. Yeah,

Debbie  27:55

there's so many You're right. There's so many

Roy Barker  27:57

Yeah. And then again, I hate to use my mom, but she's gotten that one too. It's It was a something about mystery shopping. And you know, they sent her like, a huge check. But in she she didn't put it in the bank because she felt like it was it wasn't something one write about this. But they kept calling her saying, hey, look, you've got our check, you need to put that in the bank. They just kept hounding her to put this cheque in the bank. Well, then she got scared. She's like, I'm holding this cheque from these people. And I haven't put it in the bank, you know, am I gonna get in trouble? And I, you know, I was like, No, just throw it in the trash and quit answering their phone calls. And you know, you'll be okay. But again, it was just that, you know, trying to push her just a little bit into the panic or the urgency that you're going to get in trouble. And she sure didn't want that to happen.

Debbie  28:46

Yeah, yeah. They use fear a lot. And it works.

Roy Barker  28:49

Yes, exactly. So what do you have any other good tips or tricks that we want to keep in mind as we try to protect ourselves and our family against scams?

Debbie  29:01

Don't answer the phone. Let it go to voicemail. Yeah, I mean, you know, it sounds crazy, but it's true.

Terry  29:08

And we're so conditioned to answer it, right? It's like, Oh, my gosh, we got to answer it. We got to answer it. Yeah.

Debbie  29:13

Don't do that. And especially especially an older person who's lonely. Yes. And wants to talk to a real person or you think is a real person, right? So don't answer the phone. Let it go to voicemail. If you answer the phone and they ask you anything, or they tell you they scare you a way and they're asking for a gift card. Hang up. Forget about it, say you know, call the police or call somebody. Unfortunately, when you call the police, there's not much they can do about it. Even if you go through the scam and you are actually scammed a lot of money. There's not a lot they can do. So just be be vigilant, be aware. Just be common sense if you can have it with during the time when you're very fearful and very emotional. It's not easy to have common sense. However, if you listen to these Tips. And look at my book, which is protecting the rabbit ears generation with a lot of good stories. It's a jewelry scam in there about a woman who went to a friend, it was a friend that had a friend as a jeweler and asked her to, you know, get my ring appraised I just wanting to praise, I need to get some more money for a medical issue she had, she had to have a procedure done. She her friend brought the ring in, the jeweler took the ring and sold it. Now this ring was worth about $75,000 when she had it appraised number of years ago, wow, the jeweler gave her friend $1,000 and sit here Give this to her. And when she got 1000, I don't want you to sell it, I want you just to get it appraised. She said, Well, the jeweler said, you know, it's not really worth that much. So you wanted to give you $1,000 for it. And that's that. Now it's it's a an issue, it's a crime. She's got the police involved, she's got all this stuff going on with the jeweler, but I mean, he just even friends you think you can trust, you really have to like double check everything. And unfortunately, it takes it's time consuming, it's not easy. But you really have to look look a little bit harder than just be very trusting him.

Roy Barker  31:15

Yeah, and I was gonna mention that too, I wrote down a note about caregivers is, you know, we are inviting people into our vulnerable parents or vulnerable loved ones home, that we also have to go the extra mile to do background checks. You know, I know that they may seem awesome, and they say all the right things, but do the regular background checks, get an outside agency that can help you with that. Also, you know, I always advise to check with the state and federal registries just to make sure that they don't have any previous abuse cases that are pending against them, but and then also, keeping up with statements, I think it's a good idea. You know, for somebody to kind of look through the statements and just make sure that everything is on the up and up. We I guess there's an old saying in the business trust, but verify. So, you know, we want to trust who the people we bring in. But we also need to keep a close eye on make sure that nothing strange is going on. And

Debbie  32:22

to that point, I want to add something on ads is very important. If my aunt had had surveillance cameras throughout her apartment in her bedroom, and I know a lot of places a private you don't want a surveillance camera. But if you had a camera in there, she had a camera in there. And I was able to at least observe what was going on. We would know for sure how her checks were stolen, we would know for sure that this guy came in or whoever it was the aide came in and did this. So I would suggest even even those ringing the doorbells yet have the video on the front. That That could be a very big help to the police. If you have an issue if you have a case. Yeah.

Roy Barker  33:04

Yeah. And if you get with professionals, you can find a way to set them up where the individual can still maintain their privacy to some respect. But you can see people that are coming in you can see dressers and you can see the important areas that somebody would need to get to in order to perpetrate one of these scams and

Terry  33:24

make sure that you research the security.

Roy Barker  33:28

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, one more thing that I brought up was the, you know, it sounds corny, but if you're ever in doubt, just phone a friend, somebody that is maybe not in that hyper emotional state that you are in at that moment, they may be able to help you with, Hey, you know what, I've seen this, or let's, let's take this route to make sure that that is legitimate. So never hurts to reach out as well. And just talk to your family, you know, maybe your child or if you have a good friend, just reach out to somebody and get some, you know, extra set of eyes to look at that.

Terry  34:06

And there are I mean, AARP has an elder watch program, as well, where you can you can report fraud, frauds and scams. I think it's 833-372-8311. So 833 fraud 11. I know I mean, that's one of them. And then your friend Debbie, who we spoke with a couple of weeks or a week ago, she she had some some good organizations that deal with fraud, as well. support groups and all of that just to know where you can go.

Debbie  34:44

I list a bunch of them in my book as well, particularly revenue generation. I do list a bunch of search sources, resources that they can contact, if they think they're being scammed or if they want to learn about ways not to be scammed,

Terry  34:57

right. Those are that's all in the book cost. Yeah,

Roy Barker  35:00

one, just one more before we go, I was gonna say that happened came up on next door. In, in our area, they had a guy going up to the you know, we live in an area where there's a lot of older homeowners. And so the guy was going up to the door and saying, hey, I've got the city contract to repave these roads in this neighborhood. And we usually have leftover asphalt product when we get through. So what we do is we sell that, you know, half price to the neighbors to repave their driveway or whatever. But what we do, you know, we've only got 10 slots, and so we have to collect the money up front. And so anyway, you know, what this person was very heads up, what they did is they got the information off the side of his truck, called the city and the city said, Now we don't need to have a contractor like that working for us. So, you know, they, we talked a lot about online, but that sometimes they will walk right up to your front door and try to do it as well. Yeah. All right, Debbie. Well, that's gonna wrap it up for us today. So what do we always ask our guests, so what is a tool that you use, or what is a habit that you have that you think really adds value to your life, either professionally or personally?

Debbie  36:25

Well, gratitude is a big part of my life. And talking to my dog when I walked in

Terry  36:32

and talk back

Debbie  36:34

much, it kind of calms me down, I can talk to him. And he listens most for the most part. And sometimes he has said last word, but you know, we both talk to each other. And just the gratitude is a big part of my life. And also, Focus. Focus is a big part of my life. being in the moment. Yes, very often, I find most of us and I say most, because I've been guilty of this as well, that we're not in the moment, we're thinking ahead. So we're not always seeing what's in right in front of us. So especially now, with all these scams and fraud and everything else, if you're in the moment, you can react better than just going off all crazy and emotional.

Roy Barker  37:17

Okay. All right. Those are two great ones. So if you would tell us one more time, tell us how we can get the book where we can get the book, how somebody can reach out to you and get in touch with you.

Debbie  37:29

Okay, I'm going to show the book one more time. Okay. See it, Protecting the Rabbit Ears Generation. With the TV, you see the TV antenna, the old phone, and they can reach out they can go to Amazon if they want ordered Amazon or through Kindle. Or if you'd like to get a signed copy, which I'd be happy to do. It's just email me at rabbit [email protected] that's rabbit ears book. At? I'm sorry, rabbit ears [email protected]. Okay. Yeah, we'll

Roy Barker  38:09

be sure to include that in the show notes as well. All right. Well, thank you so much for your time, this information has been very helpful. You know, audience, please just be aware of all these things. And let's really think this stuff through before we, we get tangled up. And because it could take a long time. If you can ever unwind this, once it happens. It can take a lot of time and cost you a lot of money. So let's just try to avoid and altogether.

Terry  38:39

Yeah, awareness is key.

Roy Barker  38:40

Yes, for sure. For sure. All right, Debbie. Well, thanks a lot. that's gonna do it for us. You can find us of course, at ageucational.com. We're on all the major social media platforms. We are also on all the major podcast platforms, iTunes, Stitcher, Google Spotify for not a one that you use all the time. Please reach out, we'd be glad to get it added. So appreciate you listening. If you have any good story ideas. If you're professional in the space, if you're have a story of a loved one, we'd be glad to hear from you either [email protected] or [email protected]. Be glad to be glad to talk to you about it. So until next time, that's going to do it for me.

Terry  39:27

Debbie, thank you so much. It's been great, the invaluable information.

Debbie  39:32

Thank you again for having me on this wonderful platform. I appreciate all right.

Terry  39:36

Thank you. All right,

Roy Barker  39:37

y'all Take care of yourself and please take care of your family members.

[email protected]

Video Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wV0GkvDvANQ&feature=emb_logo

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May is Older Americans Month, Celebrate a Senior Whenever Possible with Terry and Roy

May is Older Americans month. It was a proclamation that was brought in 1963 by JFK, and became this National Senior Citizens month, in 1963. A couple years later, President Johnson turned it into Older Americans month. it was it was to raise awareness and encourage community involvement. A third of all seniors lived in poverty, with very few social programs available to support them.

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Full Transcript 

May is Older Americans Month, Celebrate a Senior Whenever Po...

Fri, 5/14 8:23PM • 23:17

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

talked, seniors, starting, independent living, people, scam, decision, apartment, downsize, downsizing, mom, thought, live, phone, silverware, computers, rid, memories, typewriter, storage

SPEAKERS

Terry, Roy Barker

Roy Barker  00:07

Hello, and welcome to another episode of educational I'm Roy,

Terry  00:11

I'm Terry.

Roy Barker  00:12

So we are the podcast of course we are chronicling, you know, not only our my journey through aging, but also know the the, our parents journey, I'm fortunate to have both of my parents still living and Terry's mom is still alive. So, you know, but there are things that are starting to manifest themselves that we will talk about a little bit. And, you know, let people know, number one, you're not the only one that's dealing with it. But also, maybe we can give some helpful tips on how to how to navigate this, as well as we bring some awesome guests on from time to time to be able to talk to you. So

Terry  00:49

yeah, and we're, we're pretty excited, because may is actually the older Americans month, it was a proclamation that was brought in 1963 by JFK, and became this national citizens senior citizens month, in 1963. And then a couple years later, President Johnson turned it into older Americans month. So and because, let's see, it was it was to raise awareness and encourage community involvement. But there were like a third of all seniors lived in poverties, with very few social programs available to support them. So that's kind of why it came about. And they did this to honor older Americans. And now that we're getting up there, we want to be honored.

Roy Barker  01:48

There's a lot of stuff came out of that back in that timeframe. And I don't know, my history escapes me. But I know the one thing I used to be involved in was the, the Ombudsman act. And that was something that was dictated by the Older Americans Act back in the late 60s, early 70s. And basically, all that does, it just adds an extra level of protection for seniors that are anybody really anybody that's in a nursing home, if they don't feel like that they're being treated fairly, or anything is going on, they can always reach out to, to an ombudsman. So that's a, you know, an awesome thing. And we were talking a little bit before we turn the tape on that, you know, it's fine me growing up, I knew people that had actually written and covered wagons, run in wagons, and then also had flown on airplanes. And, you know, I was just thinking about the things that we experienced as kids that that our kids wouldn't even know about now, like driving a car without an air conditioner. I mean, I didn't even have an air conditioner in my pickup until, you know, probably the might not teen 90s.

Terry  03:00

And was it a stick shift? It

Roy Barker  03:01

wasn't for me. It was a manual, which that's another thing. The other thing that was weird. The other day I heard was bit seats, you know, used to all cars had the front was a bench. And I you know, I knew that not many of them. But they said that they are making a comeback, actually, part of the problem they say was just hard to fit a airbag and the safety functions in that middle seat was one of the main reasons that they went away. But anyway, I never thought about that. But you know, the home telephones, you know, I was talking to somebody. Yeah, I was talking to somebody the other day. And I said, well used to, you know, when you called somebody at home, you had to ask, Hey, is so and so there. And, you know, they just say, well, that's back before there were cell phones, because now, you know, everybody has a cell phone, you call them directly, you know,

Terry  03:53

you don't have to bypass dad to get you know, go ahead and speak

Roy Barker  03:58

that. And you know, of course the rotary dial phones, we talked about that. And me growing up, you know, we live didn't live that far out. But we lived about 10 miles out of town, and we were actually on an eight party line. So that means that there were eight different homes that use the same phone line. We had the different rings, you know, one short me Excuse me two shorter one long and but the thing is, you can pick up the phone and you know, if somebody else was talking, you just had to hang it up and wait on them or vice versa. You know, when you're a teenager, and they would pick your neighbor picked up the phone and want to make a phone call and you were on there talking to your boyfriend or girlfriend you know, they'd pick up three or four times and say, Oh, I gotta make a phone call. You got to get off this phone or something like that.

Terry  04:45

Well, we had we had a teen mine. So we had two phone numbers. Yeah. And I used to have to, I used to have to put pillows on top of the phone so it wouldn't ring loud and mom would know you know, but she always knew that. I'd be Hiding in the closet trying to make it real quiet and she'd follow the phone cord. She'd be like, all right handed. Oh, you know, she doesn't do.

Roy Barker  05:08

Yeah. So it's interesting even in now, even in our lifetime, all the advances and you know, the typewriters going into computers because back even when, you know, when I was in high school, we had the old manual typewriters and you're lucky some people had the electric but still. Now we're nobody even knows what a typewriter is anymore.

Terry  05:32

Yeah, we did. Oh my gosh, I learned the keyboard. I had we had a we had electric typewriters in junior high school. But I learned the keyboard with there was a record. Yes, not a vinyl, it was an album that was playing that would would just speak, you know, Jay, Jay Jay, and it would just kind of do it, you know, in a musical way. And that's, that's how we learned how to do it. Mr. Party. I remember his name, he remembers me, I'm sure.

Roy Barker  06:04

Well, someone else you got to go do this week as you got to go out and tour a Independent Living senior community. And you know, we're not going to get divulge a lot of information, just saying that, you know, mom is looking at, you know, maybe it's time for them to make a move. So her and Terry got out this week, and I'll let you tell a little bit about your experience a tour and over there.

Terry  06:30

Yeah, it was very interesting. And it, I didn't realize that I had to go into a different building. But you know, I just pulled up to the first one that I saw, and it was, it was the assisted living area. So all the buildings were connected, there's an independent living, there's assisted living, and there's a Memory Care Unit. And, and they're all connected. So I kind of got to tour the whole place. And, you know, I say now, you know, I can't wait to live in something like that, because it was really nice. I'm beautiful dining room they have I mean, it, you know, a nice apartment, two bedroom apartment. Beautiful flooring, huge bathrooms, and the showers, you know, with no rail at the bottom, you know, so they can get if, if they're, if they're just wheelchair accessible. big, beautiful. I know, it's a hard decision to make. Because if you've lived, like, you're, your mom and Jim have lived where they are for like 25 years, 3025 30 years and have accumulated a lot of things. So just having to go through that is just such a daunting task. But yeah,

Roy Barker  07:54

that's what I was gonna talk about a little bit, too. It's, you know, the decision to do this is big and within itself, but then there is that there's the downsizing that goes along with that. I mean, as far as just stuff that

Terry  08:11

life accumulation. Yeah.

Roy Barker  08:14

You know, and I was fortunate about six or seven years ago, when I made a conscious decision to downsize myself, you know, to move out here where we are now, the in the beginning, it was kind of scary, because like I said, I lived on, you know, I had a pretty decent sized house on about two acres, I had two barns with tools, ladders, you know, yard equipment, everything you could imagine. And it was kind of scary, but I will tell you that once I made the decision, and once everything was gone, and I got out here abroad, probably 25% of the clothes at our own my laptop and Abed and that was really it. And it was very liberating not to have stuff to worry about all the time. And so anyway, it's just have you

Terry  09:06

have you made that you helped me make the conscious decision conscious decision to downsize as well into a storage unit? Yeah. I mean, I still have some of my stuff. But yeah, I, it's, it was very freeing not to have to be with because I just don't know what to do with everything, all these memories, all these sentimental things with sentimental value. I can't I don't want to get rid. I don't want to make the decision to get rid of it.

Roy Barker  09:33

Yeah, and I know we talked about that a little bit, you know, because I've talked with mom and said, Look, you know, you can make the decision to move to assisted to move to the Independent Living apartment, but the reality of when you're going to be ready to move once you clear out, you know, this big house of all the, you know, massive furniture that they can't take with them. It's gonna be it's gonna take time and it's not i'm not just Saying that for her, but for anybody, it just takes time to decide what you want to keep. And, you know, the reality is some of it, you're never going to use again, that's what we talked about, I know that, you know, you still have a bunch of the girls stuff, and one that's taken up a lot of space that, you know, we talked about taking pictures, because it's hard for you to go over there and nicely reminisce through it, that, you know, if you took pictures and stored it on something like one node or one drive or even once that other, the one with the elephant, that you

10:39

I use it so often Yeah,

Roy Barker  10:40

anyway, it's another storage platform that you can store and file and kind of categorize stuff. But that was just a, you know, and I wasn't making light of it. But I was really, you know, being honest that at least if you have that stuff on your phone, or your tablet or your computer, it would be a lot easier to reminisce through than going over to storage building and trying to go through it. Now. That's the other thing. It's different for a dude versus a mom,

Terry  11:08

because you know, I want to be able to touch Yeah, well, a picture. I don't know that that's going to, but it might be able to go ahead.

Roy Barker  11:15

No, I was just gonna say because when I, whenever I made that decision, I call the kids up and said, Look, I'm you know, I'm downsizing, I'm getting out of here, anything you want, come get it. And if they didn't feel strongly enough about it, then, you know, it didn't mean that much to me. So it was it was fairly easy to do that, but I know it can be it can be traumatic.

Terry  11:37

Yeah. And, and I mean, my kids are still kind of, you know, one of them is in California, so she's not going to come get stuff yet, you know, unless I just absolutely get rid of it. And the other ones kind of in a transitional phase. Neither one of them are married, so they're not really ready to take some of this stuff. And I know that they'll want it later. I know they will, just like my mom did, that's why I have so much the

Roy Barker  12:03

mom still got all my stuff because I didn't want it. So Oh, that's we may

Terry  12:07

need to go look at it. I might need an edge storage.

Roy Barker  12:15

But I think it's a you know, it's a valid point just for people to take is that it's never really too early to start kind of paring down and finding creative ways to hang on to those memories. Because, you know, the, well if we live long enough, most of us are going to have to downsize into, you know, some kind of an apartment where we can get some help. So we're not going to be able to carry everything with us. But you know, with it's, it's funny, because we survive, and I know you've got you know, you've got a couple storage buildings with stuff. But the reality is that we live our day to day life with, you know, very limited stuff with where we're at. But again, we take the we have other stuff to do, you know, outside we get to enjoy the wildlife and things like that. So there's different I guess it's different priorities to once you get to a certain match, it's not as much of the entertaining and things like that, you know, we

Terry  13:13

they don't do it these days. And if they do, it's, you know, paper plates and plant you know, that that I think is a great priority, not not having to pull out the child. I mean, I've had a few sets of China. My mother had about eight to 10 I you know, who knows? When when she moved to independent living, I think maybe now she has three, maybe four? I don't know.

Roy Barker  13:36

Yeah, when I came out here, I think I kept one plate one bowl in one cup. And I had some old funky silverware for a long time. That didn't work but mainly plastic. But anyway, yeah, paper plates, paper bowls, and that's one thing my mom does. First she thought I'll turn it into a caveman because at her house one day, I was just eating right out of a can eat and something out of a cannon. She got it. She started fussing. I'm like why dirty up the dishes and silverware when I could just eat it out of a cannon throw it away and we can move on with something else. But anyway, yeah. And there's there are services that help with that. I think the lady gave y'all some recommendations,

Terry  14:22

downsize and downsizing companies that figure out what you need. And if you need to get a hold of somebody to do an estate sale for you. But it's just the going through process. The downsizing what what, what else? Do you know what all that downsizer does?

Roy Barker  14:44

No, they just help you. Yeah, it's

Terry  14:46

getting to me. I

Roy Barker  14:47

think it's a it's a non family member trying to help you because unfortunately, you know, as a family member when you try to help somebody else. It doesn't always go as we plan. So it's good to have that. Third party, but also I think they, you know, they, they have a process that they go through. And when you look through stuff, you know, there's three distinct categories. And this is why this is why I recommend starting early, The sooner, the better, because there's a go through everything. And then there's stuff that you know, you just want to throw away and just get rid of it, then there's stuff that you definitely want to keep. And then there's that stuff that's in the middle that's like, and I'm not really sure. So what it does, it kind of gives you some time to get kind of get right. But the thought of this is that you know, get the stuff you knew you don't want out of there, then you can see what you've got. That's kind of on the fence that may be list that, then maybe you can start getting better with getting rid of some of it because it is it's a process. I mean, some people, you know, like you said, they've been in that house for 30 something years, so very attached to everything. But then also, you know, you feel like you're giving up your independence, and you feel like, you know, you're being pulled out of your home and a lot of stuff like, you know, there's just a lot of negative emotions. I think we are of the generation. And, you know, when I moved out here, I'd also looked at some apartments in town, and there was a bunch of people our age that were at these apartments, I had made this decision, like I'm done with that I'm ready, you know, to simplify. So I think that there's an age group of us that, you know, kind of are coming through the system now that are starting to get into the system that made this conscious decision a lot earlier in life just like hey, it's not, it's really not worth the stuff. You know, we're more about the experiences and what kind of fun we can go have instead of, you know, collecting stuff that collects dust

Terry  16:46

collect memories, not stuff.

Roy Barker  16:48

Yeah, exactly.

Terry  16:49

I practice what I preach. Right, right.

Roy Barker  16:54

You're slowly working

16:57

to get there on now.

Roy Barker  16:59

So let's talk about some episodes. We've just released a couple good ones. If you haven't had time, go check them out. But we Patrick O'Malley with the guitar

Terry  17:09

and tire picking lessons and talked about music, the brain and the health benefits with music. And it was very interesting.

Roy Barker  17:19

Yeah. And then prior to that we talked about a it was an actual victim of a scam that she wrote a book but she had been taken for quite quite a bit of money. It's it's a good listen and a good book to read romance scam, you have romance, but we've also got one coming up in the near future that's going to highlight a it was like a next door neighbor and a caregiver that were working together to take advantage of a person when they went to the hospital and her

Terry  17:49

aunt Debbie it that that's very interesting to know, I just can't believe all these scams, yeah, you just have to be careful at all ages. But for older people, too, they're just so vulnerable, getting calls and texts out of the blue.

Roy Barker  18:05

And it's just, you know, I got a call this morning about, you know, you could tell it was a robo voice that, you know, you're you're in trouble. And you need to call the authorities before they come get you in, you know, at people that are, you know, maybe a little older, they may think, Oh my gosh, and then of course they have the ones that like the medic, you know, if you don't call us we're gonna do away with your Social Security or your Medicare trying to scare people into it. So now there's a lot of stuff, a lot of crazy stuff. So we always recommend that. You know, before you answer any emails, or do anything drastic, always get somebody to help you take a look, because there's so much scamming going on. Well, and in the news, it's not necessarily nailed or scam, but it's related with this colonial pipeline. I mean, there's somebody hijack their computers, and I think they ended up paying them $5 million to finally get it released. So but the same thing can happen even to you know, to seniors, with them getting their identities, there's a lot of bad stuff. But another great episode we've got coming up is the life review and

Terry  19:14

life review a hospice musical. Yeah. Now you wouldn't think that hospice would be able to be turned into a musical but it's a lovely story. You will laugh You will cry You it all, every emotion that you can possibly imagine. You'll go you'll go through it. And, I mean, they they were starting to, I guess this time last year, maybe maybe 1416 months ago, they were starting to perform it for for everybody and then COVID hit so now they're doing some virtual virtual things and workshops and, and getting into 2020 we've been actually saying for so oh my god. From the show, which is, it's very good. So I was in tears.

Roy Barker  20:03

Yeah, it's, it's going to be good. So, kind of tune in, hopefully, it'll probably be within the next two to three weeks, two to four weeks that we'll be releasing that, but got a lot of great episodes that are coming up. So yeah, just pay attention, and we're gonna try to start recording more, you know, we kind of got busy and got away from talking about our story and telling our story about how we're coming through things, you know, not only with us, we're trying to get healthier, you know, one of our kind of our tag lines is that we don't want to outlive our wellness. And so what does that mean? You know, it means for me to maybe drop some weight to get off some of the, you know, medications and to get a little healthier, so that I can go into an older age a little stronger, and, you know, in good shape. So, we're gonna try to start talking about you know, a lot of those things as well we we've started meditation has been really good for us. We tried to do about 10 minutes in the morning and 10 at night, but I've never really been into that. And it's always been hard for me, but I've sat down made myself do it. And it's starts my day out really well. And then of course finishes up the day. kind of balanced to suddenly sleep like a rock Yeah, yeah, definitely kind of clears my head before you know, I don't go in there and talk. He's like, go on there all wound up. And dairies trying to go to sleep, and I'll be talking and telling her all my ideas and thoughts and stuff of the day, and she's like, Oh, my gosh, I'm trying to sleep. So anyway, it's it's some, it's not for everybody, you know, everything that we talked about, it's not going to resonate with everybody. But if it's something that you've thought about, just give it a shot, and it's not, it's not something that you just sit down and do once and get a feel for it, you know, I would challenge everybody to, you know, to take a week, do it every day, same time. And you, you know, some there's days when my mind races and wanders more than others. So, again, you're not going to be perfect at it every day every time. But if you just work at it long enough, I think it really does have a good effect. So anyway, hopefully we'll bring some other good messages like that.

Terry  22:21

Yeah, and if you if you have a topic that you want us to cover if you want us to find a guest for an upcoming episode, please get ahold of us go on our Facebook group. Twitter, Instagram, wherever you find us. We are everywhere.

Roy Barker  22:42

Alright, well that's gonna do it for another episode of educational Of course, I am Roy Terry, you can find us at www.ageucational.com We are also on all the major podcast platforms as well as all the social media networks and live recording us live but the recording of this episode will go up on our YouTube channel when the episode does go live. So until next time, take care of yourselves and take care of each other. Thanks

www.ageucational.com

Live Your Best Life After 40 With These Wellness Tips with Gregory Ann Cox

Gregory Ann Cox the author of Your Genes Do Not Determine the Size of Your Jeans talks with Feeding Fatty about the importance of mindset in our question for health and wellness. She addresses the importance of finding what works for each individual and don’t let the values and beliefs of others determine your actions and how you feel about yourself.

Sharing is caring Facebook, Twitter, Pinterest, and LinkedIn

About Gregory

“Gregory Anne, aka “Greg” believes there is no one way to be healthy, no one diet for everyone, and no way aging should ruin your life.

Greg’s focus is delivering the truth to anyone who wants to live a long life in good health. She’d also like to reverse the rates of heart disease and diabetes, which are devastating the lives of too many people needlessly. She is proof that you can have a body you feel good in and still have your wine and foods you love.

She was among the first female graduates of The Culinary Institute of America, one of the world’s premier culinary colleges, in Hyde Park, New York. After 25+ years in the hospitality industry, a certificate in nutrition, and the launch of a heart-healthy restaurant in San Diego, she turned her focus to coaching.

She wrote Your Genes Do Not Determine The Size of Your Jeans, to bust the myths that are keeping women fat, frustrated, fatigued, and not able to fully enjoy their second halves.

Rebellious Wellness Over 50 Website

www.ageucational.com

Full Transcript Below

Live Your Best Life After 40 With These Wellness Tips With G...

Sat, 5/15 7:28PM • 43:56

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

people, age, body, test, talk, insulin, book, fat, eat, feel, podcast, women, wellness, inflammation, genes, calories, food, life, brain, myth

SPEAKERS

Gregory, Terry, Roy Barker

Roy Barker  00:15

Hello, and welcome to another episode of educational I'm Roy. I'm Terry course we are the podcasts that are we're chronicling not only our journey through aging, but we also have aging parents that we help as well. And so we always have new challenges. And so that's the basis of our show. But we also have professionals in different areas that Come on, give us some advice to help us live our best life and kind of one of our newer, our newer thoughts is that we definitely don't want to outlive our wellness. So that's important to a lot of us. But, Terry, I'm gonna let you introduce our guests for today.

Terry  00:53

Yeah, Gregory and Gregory and Cox scheme's me who goes by Greg is a podcaster. She has a podcast and rebellious wellness over 50. And she has a book called The missing middle it's referred to as the missing midlife manual, your jeans do not determine the size of your jeans. And, Greg, welcome to our podcast. We're so excited to talk to you. You have a lot of soul mops.

Gregory  01:24

I'm happy to be here.

Roy Barker  01:26

Oh my gosh, and I still snicker. But she reads that the the title of the book before the show.

Gregory  01:33

Sorry.

Roy Barker  01:35

Your genes do not have to determine your genes. I love that.

Terry  01:39

That's awesome. Greg, how did you get to where you are now? How did you come up with the writing the book? And how long has your podcast been going on? We have so many questions.

Gregory  01:51

Oh, any questions? I'll try and give you so many good answers.

Terry  01:54

I know you will. Let's

Gregory  01:55

start with the podcast. So the podcast is new. The beginning of this year 2021. It's something I started another one a year or two ago and it was a nation idea I wasn't ready to it was a spirituality podcast. And it was like so personal and raw that I was doing interviews and I wasn't really feeling it. So but health is something that I'm committed to helping people get new information, open their eyes open their mind a little to what's different. And that brings us to the book really the the idea that your genes don't determine the size of your genes is an was an outcome of my studying epigenetics. I got fascinated because again, I was in the world of personal development, I spent a lot of time in that I've been a coach for 18 years, you get to meet if you're interested. or hear about at least lots of these spiritual people who were scientists first, right blending science of mind and body together. And Bruce Lipton is the first person I ever heard talk about epigenetics, which means a epi means around right the environment around the cells and how much influence it has. And I was coaching women through perimenopause and menopause, I was going through it myself. And there are so many myths out there, especially about as you age, you're going to get fat, it's just the way it is. Or if you're in a family that has diabetes, or obesity or this, you're probably going to end up that way too. And that was making me crazy and sad at the same time, because I found out that it's not true. And genes do determine some part of our physiology, but certainly not all of it. And so the book is 10 chapters where I take one myth at a time, like fat makes you fat, or your genes determine the size of your jeans or you know, so just to help women see that they have other options than just buying into this negativity or buying into the calories in calories out. You're not working out hard enough, all of these things that we constantly get told, which is really shaming people who can't seem to change the bodies they have. And I'm not about changing the body, right? The physiology, the shape of the body, or the intention of the body, just to have people be as healthy as they could be within the body. They were given

Terry  04:07

an interesting.

Roy Barker  04:09

Yeah, and that's a you know, it's an important part I think that we have kind of uncovered as we've gone through this journey is that our bodies do I guess our genes, our bodies do have a determination. We're not all equal. Everything doesn't work the same for everybody out of course, the hate to say it but the older we get, the more struggles that we have for so many different reasons. And I guess that's one one thing to talk about, if for just a minute is some of those struggles that we face. Once we get over 40 once we get over 50 once we get to 60 united seem like they start mounting and mounting and mounting.

Gregory  04:55

It's true that the body does change and we think of things generally 40s 50s we start noticing incrementally that, you know, whatever we feel fatigue, I don't have the energy I used to I'm putting on weight I can't control. But technically, things really start changing in our 30s. But we have so many good things still in place that we don't notice the little things. And it's true that the metabolism does slow down as we age, but it doesn't mean that it doesn't work. And it does, we just have to adjust. And sometimes a person who had a lifelong successful eating pattern of let's just say, a low fat, high carb, or, you know, maybe low carb, high fat, all of a sudden, things could change, and that could not longer no longer feel good, or it couldn't give them It might not give them the results. So one of the things that's whoo and crazy to talk about what's really important is to listen to our bodies as we age. And you know, there there was a comedian would when I, somebody would say like, well, it hurts when I do this. He's like, well, don't do that anymore, right? So our body is constantly giving us clues. If we get heartburn after we eat something hollow, maybe instead of reaching for the pilot sec, we should see if we can substitute something as enjoyable, because I'm all about delicious and enjoyment and no deprivation. But there are clues along the way. But yes, there are going to be struggles and things are not going to work as we want them to as when we were in our 30s and 40s. But it doesn't mean we can't have a great life and enjoy it and have vibrancy and help. In the end. That's

Terry  06:23

a good point. I mean, we're just so used to get so conditioned to throw medication at Oh, this is happening. Let's just do this. Let's get some Pepto bismol. Let's just get whatever we need. Yeah, and a lot of what we're going through can be handled through foods that we eat, or, you know, supplements that we need things like that.

06:54

Yeah, all right. Yeah,

Terry  06:57

we froze.

Roy Barker  06:58

No, I was just gonna say that. You know, it's important because the, you know, the root cause of a lot of this and I'll speak for myself is that I have something and I think I chased traced, mostly traced it back to, you know, really sugary substances, and maybe even some carbs is kind of a food allergy. So in the morning, when I wake up, if I don't get to do this much anymore, but let's just say, you know, you go to the local Mexican restaurant and have some chips and a margarita. Something about that, the next day, my eyes are so puffy, and I just, I'm very clogged up, you know, it's like a sinus or an allergy. And it takes me, you know, a good half of a day just to get out from under that. And so again, I've pretty much quit that, because it's gotten used to it, you know, it had to be more, you know, maybe to a couple margaritas and you know, sitting around eating the chips all night. And then now it's gotten to the point that if we go up and just have split a bowl of chips and have one, I'm still done with that. Yeah.

Gregory  08:07

Yeah, it is interesting how we, and that does have a little bit to do with youthful metabolisms, versus, you know, the ones that are kind of just chugging along. But my husband, I joke all the times, like, because who's been to a restaurant a really long time, we haven't and but we take out and do you want to get Chinese or Mexican? Same thing. It's like, oh, but how are we gonna feel tomorrow? Just because we used to be able to pound it and we just can't so either order differently or order lighter, or we just say, Alright, tomorrow, I might be puffy. But tonight I'm going to enjoy this with my friends. You know, like that kind of thing. I always say excess in moderation.

Roy Barker  08:43

Exactly, exactly. So how does, let's talk about sleep for a minute. Again, that's something else that I can relate back to myself that sleep tends to be our lack of sleep tends to be the beginning of bad times for me because I seem to want to eat more to try to boost that energy level up and so that everybody's different. But you know, there's this I think there's a myth that as we age, we don't need as much sleep. But I personally feel like I need as much if not more sleep than what I've ever needed in the past.

Gregory  09:19

That's absolutely right. You do need as much sleep as you ever have. And some people do need more Daniel Levinson's book, which I'm still getting through called successful aging. The chapter I just read was about sleep and how important it is and how we have made it okay to not sleep well as we age. Therefore, people don't take the steps because they don't think it's going to change anything. But to your point about you feel like you crave more sugar and things the next day you do when you're when you're low on the brain goes in search of energy when you're tired, and the fastest energy to get into the brain is something that turns into sugar or pure sugar. Way back in the days when we thought that low fat was a good idea. I was working for a heart surgeon and I got interviewed on a radio. I also had a column with another woman in a magazine. And we did an article titled jelly beans for breakfast. And it was because we said, you know, everybody's rushing off to work. It was a book, it was magazine for salespeople, people run out the door for work, they don't eat anything, they drink their coffee. What should you have in the morning, or like, at least you could have a handful of jelly beans or a couple of chocolate kisses in that, you know, everybody was like, Oh, my God, that's really bad. Well, now, I would never say that. But the science at the time, said because the brain, you really need to get something in there. And to help you with that worry, I would suggest that you increase your fat intake, because fat will help you sleep fat will help you sex hormones, that will help pretty much everything and help balance out quelch those cravings for the sugary carbee foods, because the brain can also run on fat, you just have to condition it.

Roy Barker  10:52

Exactly. And that's, you know, that's something I've learned over the last few years is we've kind of we've had a change in thinking, I guess, you know, it was like a carbs was what ran our brains, and we got to have it. But there's also a lot of scientific evidence out there that we can the brain will adapt to run off of the fat, if that's what we put in, which kind of brings up a question. I know, this is a little bit off topic. But the so I've read some studies as well, that kind of link back to that low. Let me get this right, the low fat phase of the 70s coming into the 80s. And they're trying to link that with the increasing amount of Alzheimer's we see in people, you know, who were I guess in their 20s and 30s at that age and having that now?

Gregory  11:42

Yeah, I don't know exactly the study or studies that you're talking about. But I asked I interviewed America's number one female brain Doc, couple weeks ago, it's not out yet. It'll be out in April. But I asked her specifically about the relationship between sugar carbs and what some scientists are calling diabetes, type three, Alzheimer's. And she said that she she said, We are in the early days of enough science backing that theory, but it is lots and lots of papers are being written more and more, you know, retroactive studies. We can't study that going forward. We don't want to cause Alzheimer's. But yeah, so there is definitely some credence to it. I just don't have a scientific I can't quote something for you to for your listeners to research right now.

Roy Barker  12:29

No, and that's one thing we have tried to be careful with is you know, trying to add back fat, the, the, you know, I think course we'll make that disclaimer, we're not doctors, we don't claim to be seek out medical professional help and all that. But, you know, the one thing I try to struggle with is that some of those fats are hawks, Lord. And so, you know, in this is something else we've talked about lately is trying to balance everything, you know, you want to increase that fat, but you got to watch your calories. That's why you really need a plan. It's hard to do this on the fly if you sit down and plan out your meals. And I guess you can speak to that, that's probably good, good advice for everybody. But we need to really be conscious of what we're putting in and, and not swing from extremes because the other thing that we've done is utilize a nutritional tracker. And so even when we have thought we've been eating right, at certain times, you're really deficient in a lot of these micronutrients that your body needs. So important to just be very conscious of these changes in what you're doing.

Gregory  13:41

Yeah, for sure. And I will tie back to the idea that calories and does not equal calories out so when you talk about the calories and fat they affect the body in a much different way. And if the body then let's say if I had a whole piece of whole grain toast with a piece of Turkey on it and some cheese versus a bagel, with like that tub of cream cheese kind of thing, they may have the same amount of calories, but the one with the turkey also has protein, the turkey and the cheese has protein has the whole grains is going to slow down the way the blood the sugar enters the body from the carbohydrates. So yes, awareness of the calories that we're eating is really important, but I don't like people to get hung up or they feel like I got off track this I just had a half an Apple was that 40 I'm gonna eat you know, it make when people especially people that have had speeding for experienced food disordered eating patterns as young people pushing or asking somebody to go back to the you know, controlling everything they eat can be worse for some people. Yeah, so it may not be your your issue at all and good for you that you're tracking and especially tracking the nutritional value of the foods we eat. So very important, just to say that, I don't like people to feel like they have to count all their calories and all their grams of fat but for some people that That's the only way that they really maintain that healthy weight.

Roy Barker  15:03

So let's talk about another another kind of a hot topic that's out there now is leaky gut. And maybe I think the effects of dairy or Oh, yeah, the gluten on that. So does that change as we age? Or is there more effect on us as we get older,

Gregory  15:27

again, the body can change, we can develop sensitivities to things that we never had. The gluten, one of the problems with gluten is that over the past five decades, maybe four or five decades, the wheat that we grow is different than the heirloom, if you want to call it that wheat that was grown, those grains that were growing probably up until the mid 50s, had a different composition, more protein, and other things in them that we've stripped out so that we get faster crops growing, the bread that's made now the crackers, the cookies, things like that use this newer form of wheat, from what I understand is what's leading to so much of this gluten sensitivity. Something's missing or something was added. I don't know which, but that's one of the reasons again, the body can change. And a lot of people unless you get tested for gluten sensitivity, which is a antibody test, you may not feel good when you eat gluten, that's a good enough reason not to eat it. But when people say I can't have gluten, I ate a bagel and I got bloated doesn't mean that they're gluten intolerant. And so they may wipe out all the things they used to love again, this this whole thing about all or nothing. But when people have leaky gut, which is evident by you know, gas, bloating, diarrhea, all kinds of things, symptoms. But again, that's something to get tested for, because it's a very serious condition for the body, the body poisons are going where they shouldn't, that's the leaky part, things are leaking out into our system causing inflammation. And we know that inflammation is like the devil when it comes to healthy aging.

Roy Barker  17:04

Wow. Yeah. And I can't even tell you how many times in the last month that you know, inflammation, inflammation is, is really gotten to be the thing that, you know, well, from my understanding, I'll let you confirm this. It's kind of the genesis of a lot of things, the cancers they arthritis is just probably a whole host of other things as well.

Gregory  17:27

Yeah, most of the dogs that I've interviewed will say that it is a catch 22 chicken and egg like is inflammation causing the problem are the problems there. And we didn't notice them until the inflammation became evident. So all of that to say though, if we can keep the inflammation in our bodies low, we have a less likely chance of experiencing them. So does that mean it's causative? I don't know. But they are definitely related. And we do eating is one way, easy way to keep the inflammation low in our body. Okay,

Terry  17:58

so one of the catchphrases on your website. Was everything is food, or that's your core belief. Can you tell us a little bit about that? Sure.

Gregory  18:11

If you think about ingesting, we ingest food, right? We eat we Munch we swallow. We also our language is riddled with metaphors of food. My, my husband is a sweetie. You know, we might say that I this is like he's like a bad apple. And so we you know, I could go on and on. We use the idea of food as emotional, to make an emotional connection to tell a story to describe our feelings. So I believe that everything is food in the way that every thought we think feeds our body well, or ill because I know that you both have had an experience where somebody absent mindedly or directly flung an insult your way or a challenge to you. And it It hurts, right. But there's nothing we ate. We thought about it, we experienced it in our energy body. And so I say that every thought we think and every bite we take either contributes to our wellness, or our ill health. So all the media that we consume the people in our lives, and there's one really easy exercise to do to have this experience. Have the outcome be better for people is to just look at their lives. Take 10 minutes, sit there, close your eyes if you need to. And just think about all the people in your life. Think about the room you're sitting in. Is there anything like somebody may sit down on a chair at their desk and say, every single day they sit down and they say, I hate this chair? My back doesn't feel good one of these days but they don't get a new chair. And all of that right? It's just I say look at your life and what isn't serving you if you possibly can. Now most people can't move just because they don't like their house. But whatever we can do to, to take away the this, the the noise in our lives are the people that are creating stress in our bodies. That's what I mean by everything is food, everything is creating the same thing that food does in our body.

Roy Barker  20:15

Yeah, and that's a good thing to point out because we talk about it a lot in businesses, you know, to be successful surround yourself with successful people. But I think that it goes for our happiness and for our positivity, if we surround ourselves with positive happy people, we will tend to be that way. Whereas in not, it may be even if we have negative people in our life, it's not. Maybe it won't turn us negative, but it's just such a mental drain in the psychological drain on our body. Yeah,

20:46

absolutely.

Terry  20:47

Can we talk about some of the other myths that you dispel in your book?

Gregory  20:55

Wait, we can talk about some of the elements, what are some of the Okay, one of the myths is I should have brought I have a book, if you want to get it is this is what happens at your age, the myth that at a certain age, whatever happens, we could stub our toe and go to the doctor and they'd say, See, this is what happens at your age, you're not as balanced as you used to be, right? aren't as aware your peripheral vision is going there are a host of things attached to the age that somebody is by the usually the western medical model and probably our friends and relatives. You know, they go I need new glasses, we'll see that's going to happen at your age, you just turned 60 whatever it is. There isn't one age, if you can, if anybody listening can point to an age for every single human on the planet, that a certain thing occurs. I'd say they could be a rich person. Isn't that true? We can't predict when things are going to happen. And we all know, vibrant, amazing people in their 80s and 90s. And people in their 50s and 60s that are living a very, very less than life. Not a judgment just to say they may have a disability, they may have depression and it right. So that makes me nutty.

Roy Barker  22:13

That's not true.

22:15

Okay,

Roy Barker  22:16

right. Yeah, no, no, I just wonder if you looked at the genetics of the, you know, these people that are doing better? Living into, you know, they're doing better at older ages? Is that a product of their environment? Is it a combination? And I realize if you have a severe disability, that's not really what I'm talking about. I'm talking about just like the, you know, the more you know, just the more normal normal person that is older, older, looking older, feeling rundown, is that because of the because what they fed themselves, not necessarily food, but that you know, what we're talking about with the positivity, that we see that probably the more positive people have aged and have better wellness.

Gregory  23:07

Yes. And I will point you to the twin studies that are so popular in psychology magazines, you know, and whenever we want to prove or disprove genetic, what do they call it, nurture versus nature. One of the stories I tell in the book is about a set of two women twins who were separated at birth, maybe maybe they were two or three. But they didn't spend much time together just a couple of years. And they followed, they found them, they found each other they enrolled in a twin study. And they found exactly the same age exactly the same gene pool. One woman was out there racing around at 67 or eight, whenever they were talking to them. Super vibrant, very, very happy. The other woman could barely get out of her chair, she was very despondent, she was a very negative creature. So then they would have to look at the parents in the situations that they both grew up in. And I don't think they had all of those information, or at least the study I read didn't give you all of that detail. But just a simple way of answering your question. I don't think it's just genetics that determines how we age. You know, mindset is such a strong part of all the work I do you guys, we talked about it before we had our this podcast together. It's you have to have a desire to look forward to something in front of you, and then figure out how you're going to make that happen. I'm not talking about maybe it's starting a business, maybe it's not maybe it's just like, I want to be here next spring to see those daffodils again, you know.

Roy Barker  24:38

Yeah. And we were talking about things that happen at certain ages is that, you know, we think there's a common myth or perception that, you know, as we age, it's like you hit 60. And it's like, well, are you just sitting out on the front porch and the rocker and it's like, well, I hate to admit that. I'm getting very close to that, but like it, I don't feel like it has slowed me down. Well, it slowed me down a little bit, just, you know, because of just for movement purposes. But as far as wanting to achieve things, still having a lot of goals. I mean, it's something that me and Terry talk about every day, you know, we have a big list on one of our whiteboards of all the things, you know, the short term things we need to accomplish today, but these long term objectives that, you know, I don't, I guess, you know, growing up, it was like, when you hit 65, it was like you're living on borrowed time. But now, probably not only now we've evolved, you know, over the last 40 or 50 years, but also because I'm at that age, when seemed like when you get to that age, it's like, yeah, things look a lot different to me. But, you know, I truly expect to be very active into my mid 80s, or 90s. I don't think there's any reason, you know, unless I have a physical health issue that comes up, but there should be no reason why we can't be productive accomplishing, still have those desires way late into life.

Gregory  26:05

Oh, I totally agree. And even if we don't move as fast, even if we have a major setback that takes our wind out or energy away from us, we can still have an enjoyable life. You know, we just again, it's that we started this conversation by talking about paying attention to the body and you know, adjusting as we age. That's, I think, one of the keys when people I recently did a survey of people over 50, between 50 and 90. And I asked, there was like five answers, but how do you view aging? What are you going to do? Great, I'm very happy, right? And a lot of people said, I don't like it, but I'm going to make the best of it. And I thought that was encouraging that the bulk of the people that answered didn't say I hated them fighting it. They just said I'm gonna do what I can to make the best of it.

Terry  26:54

Yeah, cuz you can't change it. And it's better than the alternative. Hello. Yeah, yeah.

Roy Barker  27:00

And it's funny, you bring that up. We just did a little short piece. yesterday. We haven't aired it yet. But there were, there's some studies that I didn't actually read the study I read, it was an article written on the study through the New York Times that older people have fared better through the pandemic, they said that, you know, of course, in the beginning, there was a lot of ages on because it tended to hit older people harder and worse. But now that we've made it through this year, they they were saying that we have fared better, which I thought was very interesting.

Gregory  27:36

Yeah, I did read that article as well. And it's also true for what was it accident, like if somebody is in an accident, and they lose an arm, or if they're, they've had a stroke, and they lose mobility or one side, the older the person is, generally speaking, the more able they are to sort of segue into something that looks like their life did before. Even young people. That's true of I mean, there are exceptional people that just have that resiliency, but there's something about the brain again, that we don't react to things like we used to in you know, with stress and anger and craziness, when things bad happen, we have wisdom to know that I've had something like this before. I'll get through this, too.

Roy Barker  28:20

Yeah, yeah, that's what they were saying is that, you know, some of us have lived through the, you know, the gas crisis of the 70s, the, you know, the financial crisis that we have, you know, we just, there's all these things that we are fairly confident that we will come out on the other end. The other thing that we were talking a little bit about today, though, you know, we don't have kids and a family, it's just us. And we're survivors, where, you know, I can only imagine if you were a young family with little kids that that just, you know, kind of mounts that. So we'll we'll say that

Terry  28:51

just worrying about all you know, all of them and how they're going to handle it and how you're going to take care of it and all of that.

Roy Barker  28:58

So what are some things that we can do? What are some things that we can listen to to our body? Of course, but are there? You know, are there tests that we should be doing, I guess, seeking out blood test to see, you know, how this is doing versus how that is doing so that we may know where we need to make adjustments?

Gregory  29:19

That's a great question. And I actually can I have a report on the tests you need and the tests you don't and what they mean when you get them, which I can send to you if you want to share it with your listeners. But to answer your question here. I think it's really important for every buddy, no matter what age you are probably over 40 to once a year, get a full blood panel, the CBC detective stories at CBC Chem 707 means just a total blood panel so that and of course you're going to within that get a cholesterol test, which is one of those myths and that's a whole other group. I cast episode on how I don't believe that cholesterol is killing all of us. But it also include if you can, if there's any reason to the markers of inflammation, and a healthy heart panel so within a blood test, you might see certain things that would indicate whether you have high sodium or white blood cells are okay. But and the the healthy heart tests are more common when I first started ordering them for myself 15 years ago, I had to pay out of pocket because none of the doctors were like, Who was this but the Cleveland Clinic are the people who started. So the the heart panel will show you what kind of particles your cholesterol is. So it's not just LDL and HDL, but the LDL and HDL get divided in, they get parsed into like all their different components. We want lots of fluffy particles, we don't want tiny little particles. That test will tell you, why do you want to know that? Because if you're otherwise healthy, but you have lots of tiny particles in your cholesterol, it's time to do something, whether it's lifestyle change, or talking to your doctor about what they would suggest. The other thing I especially for women who but men also, but especially for women, over 50 who feel that they are tired all the time, their skin looks terrible, they can't lose weight, you know, they've got a host of symptoms, they've gone to their doctor and said, Can you test me for hypothyroidism? The doctor will give them one test the TSH test. And if they're in the normal range, normal for like the entire planet is a very small range. They'll say like no, you're falling behind. Maybe you need to see a psychiatrist. That really is not the best answer for that poor woman. And a TSH a thyroid panel, which tests independently, the T four and T three is what you need to know because TSH thyroid stimulating hormone it's not a thyroid hormone at all. It comes from the pituitary gland. Actually, I was pointing out the pituitary gland. So it only is an indication of whether the pituitary gland is saying make more or make less TSH. Anyway, that's a whole nother subject. I don't want to get too confusing, but it especially if women are struggling, they might have to find a doctor who's going to listen. I one of my favorite patient advocates is Mary shomon sh o m. o m, she has tons of books, websites, Facebook, she can answer almost any question she's written the answer to every question you might have about thyroid health. So a CBC, total blood panel, a heart health panel, and then thyroid if they're feeling any other issues.

32:35

Okay. Well,

Roy Barker  32:36

speaking of that, that brought up something I have seen a lot more on TV commercials the last few weeks are some it's a company or a guy that they're promoting. If you're over a certain age, and you have a certain waist circumference, then you are more likely to be insulin resistant. And that's what's calling causing the issue. It's a pretty, I guess what concerned me about it is it's such a broad net that they've cast that always makes you concerned about, you know, how accurate something like that can be. But can you speak to that? Do you have any knowledge of that,

Terry  33:16

like the, the higher you carry it in your body that

Roy Barker  33:20

no, this was just basically the commercial says if you're over for a man over 40 and have a waist circumference of x, maybe over 36 or 4042, that you are probably insulin resistant.

Gregory  33:35

You know, again, it's like so many commercials for health products, they they can get away with what they're saying because there isn't as much regulation as there could be. And that person I've seen that commercial, they are drawing from a pretty big pool of research that indicates that at that point, you have insulin resistance once you have that much fat around your middle. Insulin resistance is if there's too much sugar in the blood, because there's too much sugar going in in the form of carbs or actual sugar. You have high blood sugar, right? And in your your blood tests, you're going to hopefully get an A one c test number, and that is a measure of 12 weeks. I don't know how this one test can figure out 12 weeks worth of our blood sugar, but it does. And if that number is within a healthy range, that's a good first step. You could also ask for an insulin test that will say you're too high and insulin But back to the idea of too much sugar in the blood. When the blood sugar goes into the blood cells. It insulin comes I mean when it goes into the blood insulin comes and as a response and puts it into the cells where the cells can use it for energy. If there's too much sugar in the blood, insulin gets tired knocking on the cell doors like I opened the door again open the door again in the cell. They're like I can't. So now there's insulin in places it shouldn't be too much blood sugar in the blood and insulin resistance is the first Insulin resistance is related to the fact that the insulin can no longer clear the blood of a blood sugar. It's supposed to take it and put it into the cells or store it in the liver can't do that if it's overwhelmed. So that creates the ultimate inflammatory response. That's why we don't want inflammation and insulin resistance. We don't want it anyway. Because it should be able to put blood sugar where it needs to go, not gumming up the works of our blood.

Roy Barker  35:26

Right? Yeah, and as a type two diabetic, I know that that you know, the more weight you carry the, the higher, the harder it is to control that blood sugar. And sometimes I can eat right and do the exercising. But if, if I'm carrying more weight at that particular time, it's just much more difficult to control. So

Gregory  35:47

you know, the weight becomes an organ. It acts like an organ in the body when there's an accumulation of fat around. Well, the other organs, it starts to put out hormones just like other organs do. It's really crazy.

Terry  36:03

Oh, I've never heard Yeah,

Gregory  36:05

so anyway, you have this? Do you have more now another system with its own brain kind of thing, sending signals throughout the body? And, you know, it just complicates matters. Right. Interesting, Michael? Yeah.

Roy Barker  36:21

Greg, we've appreciated you taking time out of your day to talk to us. Any other points that you want to make? Before we wrap this up?

Gregory  36:29

The only thing I would say is honestly, if if you get away from the noise of what the world is saying, through commercials, for instance, have taken Pepto bismol take, you know, we talked about before, listen to your body. And even if you don't go, you know, Dr. Google is great, but can make you a little crazy. Find a trusted resource. And see if they have information on that, like natural remedies for heartburn, natural remedies for elbow pain, you know, I don't sleep well, what should I take, I have to tell you guys, I'm in my 60s. And I sleep like a baby. Unless I have something on my mind. But you know, most nights, but that wasn't always true. I had to really over the past 1015 years, I've had to work at it. And I've had to change things, right? I take an herbal supplement before I go to bed. I'm good, right? So just do what you can to see what your body needs so that you can feel good. And you mentioned the very beginning of your show about wealth, wellness, lifespan versus wellness span, we want our health span to equal our lifespan. So listening to you, not necessarily to all the noise out there.

Roy Barker  37:33

Yeah, that's a great point, we, you know, we are all different individuals with different makeups. And the other thing to talk about doctors not to not being hard on them. But if if you if you don't feel like your doctor is giving you the time, or telling you what you need to hear, it's always good to get a second opinion because unfortunately, you know, we've talked on some other shows about I guess the pattern can be Hey, I have this going on. Okay, great. Here's a pill that'll solve that for you instead of let's figure out what's causing that to make you not feel good. So just, there's a lot of resources out there. Just Just be sure that we're not getting so focused on one. You know what one person is saying, if we don't feel like it's correct, get a second opinion. It doesn't. It never hurts.

Gregory  38:23

Absolutely right.

Roy Barker  38:25

All right, well, what is something that you do in your daily life? It could be professional or personal. But do you have a habit that or habit or an app or a tool or something that you do every day, that adds a lot of value?

Gregory  38:38

Wow, I, you know, I am lucky that I live in a beautiful place. And I would have to say I have nature. And it doesn't matter if it's 22 degrees outside or if it's 102 degrees outside, I have to go outside. And even in the middle of the day, if I'm feeling like that, whatever. It's not enough to look out the window. I just take a few minutes and I go outside and I look at a tree. I'm going to go pick some daffodils after we get done because they finally started blooming. That is my resource happy place. Yeah. remedy.

Roy Barker  39:09

Cool. And that it's it's funny because that's when we have somebody else. Somebody else chatting. No, we have a you know, that's what we do. We we take a lot of stock in nature and Terry has been she has her own herd herd of deer that she nurtures a lot. And so it's it's funny where we are like little kids. We wake up in the morning and the first thing we do is we run to the back window to see how many see how many deer count. Yeah. And we had some rain the other day and so now we've got a flock of ducks that have taken up. Yeah, and I think it was I guess it was bank rat before the big cold snap. We had a flock of probably 25 or 30 turkeys Out of nowhere,

Terry  40:02

I love you've had turkeys too.

Gregory  40:05

And the big the guys when they put out all their feathers, and they do the whole little dance around and I know that women seem to pay attention, you know, I feel bad for them. They're just,

Roy Barker  40:15

you know, I see see them in the woods and on the road, I may see one or two, but having this many it was, you know, we had the wild tears like, what is

Terry  40:26

flying monkeys from the Wizard of Oz is that they were coming down to like they're not graceful when they fly.

Roy Barker  40:35

So anyway, yeah, take the stock in nature. The other thing too, I like to do is to clear my head is you know, get out, take a little short walk. And, you know, just soak it up. Also, I think that one thing it does for us when we take our morning walks, is the gratitude just to be able to look at these beautiful surroundings. I mean, how lucky are we you know, even when I have a piece of podcasting equipment that's given me static, I'm like, you know, it's like that's it's such a small thing compared to this big, beautiful world that we live in. So I guess just everybody try to look around and be grateful for something. So I'm with you. 100%. All right. So tell everybody course how can they get tell us about the book again, tell us how they can get it tell people how Of course they can reach out and get a hold of you. Okay, thank

Gregory  41:23

you for asking the My website is rebellious wellness over fifty.com. And on the website, you'll find a book page. If you look at the little tabs, it says book. And that'll tell you more about it. And you can download a the introduction and the first chapter, which sets up my philosophy, why I wrote the book and then gives you some things to do actually, in the first chapter. For those people who don't want a whole book. And the podcast is there to on the website. And as I mentioned, I can certainly send you guys the what tests you need, etc, etc. and share it with your people. But it will be up on my website. Again, it's not there right now I took it down so that I could put my hidden hidden fat loss saboteurs freebie, it's all about the things that disrupt our hormones that are parts of our everyday life. That helped make it hard for people to lose weight.

Roy Barker  42:19

Okay, interesting. And you also provide coaching services, too. I

Gregory  42:22

know when I do provide coaching services, Yes, I do. And it's an individual thing. I do have a lifestyle assessment, which is a short it's a one hour they answer a questionnaire. And then I give them a response. And we talked about next steps. For people that are feeling like they think they could be doing something a little better. They're not sure what it might be. So it's an easy way to get some information without committing to a whole big coaching program if they're not ready for that.

Terry  42:45

Okay, and for women in men, not just not just you know, it

Gregory  42:48

is for women and men. It's a very different thing. And I mostly get businesses, women over 50 but I have coached men, just a whole different beast. They're like, tell me what to do. I'm gonna do that women are like, wow, last night after I talked to my daughter. That's funny, but yes, I love men too.

Roy Barker  43:08

All right, then. Well, thanks so much. that's gonna do it for another episode of educational. I'm rolling. I'm Terry. And you can always find us at www.ageucational.com and we are on all the major social media platforms, as well as the video of this interview will go up on YouTube when the episode goes live. So appreciate you reaching out. We're on all the major podcast platforms, iTunes, Stitcher, Google Spotify, or not a one that you listened to. Please be sure and reach out. We will be glad to add you. So until next time, take care of yourself and take care of your family.

Terry  43:42

Thank you, Greg.

Gregory  43:43

Thank you so much. You too.

Rebellious Wellness Over 50 Website

www.ageucational.com

At 67 an Adoptee Seeks Out His Birth Mother and Her Captivating Story with Ed Di Gangi

At 67 Ed had never given the circumstances surrounding his adaption much thought. After a visit to a cemetery and hearing his favorite author's story of finding out about his family Ed set out on his own journey. He had long envisioned an ordinary mom but he found she was anything but ordinary. She had left home in New York during WWII and became an ice skating star.

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About Ed

Ed Di Gangi was adopted at birth in New York City. An only child, he made no effort to explore his heredity until, at age 67, a visit to a cemetery where members of his adoptive mother's family were buried stirred his interest.

Over a period of three years, through extensive archival research and DNA testing, Ed peeled back the layers of his once unknown family. The story of his search of his search and of his surprising discoveries is recounted in Ed's book, The Gift Best Given: A Memoir, which was published in 2020.

Ed and his wife, Linda, live in Hillsborough, North Carolina.  Their son, James, lives in nearby Durham.

www.digangiauthor.com

www.ageucational.com

Full Transcript Below

Roy - AGEUcational - At 67 an Adoptee Seeks Out His Birth Mother and Her Captivating Story (00:02):

Hello, and welcome to another episode of educational. This is Roy, of course we are the podcasts that Chronicles not only our journey through aging, but we are both fortunate enough to have parents that still are alive. And so as with aging parents, there's always challenges and hurdles to overcome to making sure that they live safely and have the best care possible. So, um, you know, we want people to know they're not alone from time to time. We have, uh, other professional guests as well as people that have good stories to tell, and that is what we have today. Uh, Ed's going to be our guests. I'm going to let Terry introduce him and talk about his story for just a minute.

Terry - AGEUcational (00:41):

Ed Di Gangi was adopted at birth in New York city, an only child. He made no effort to explore his heredity until at age 67, a visit to a cemetery where members of his adoptive mother's family were buried, stirred his interest over a period of three years through extensive arc archival research and DNA testing. Ed peeled back the layers of his once unknown family. The story of his search and of his surprising discoveries is recounted in Ed's book. The best, the gift best given a memoir, which was published in 2020 at, and his wife, Linda live in Hillsborough, North Carolina, their son James lives nearby in Durham. Ed, thank you so much for taking time to talk to us today and share your story.

Ed (01:31):

Well, thank you so much for inviting me to be on the show. Yeah.

Roy - AGEUcational - At 67 an Adoptee Seeks Out His Birth Mother and Her Captivating Story (01:35):

Looking forward to it. So, um, kind of tell us a little bit about, um, you know, you really, I guess at some point you knew that you were adopted, but you just didn't make the effort and kind of what led you into deciding that this is something that you really wanted to pursue?

Ed (01:52):

Well, as you said, I did know for quite a long time that I was adopted, uh, interestingly though I have no recollection of ever having that conversation with my adoptive parents. Um, but I, as curious kids, do, you know, in my youth was going through some of my parents' papers and found an adoption decree there, which kind of confirmed what my situation was. And I just put it back in the file and, uh, just left it there. We never had the discussion. You know, my, my parents didn't bring it up to me as far as I recall. And my assumption was if they weren't talking about it, I suppose I shouldn't either, uh, you know, sadly my dad passed away in the 1970s, my mother in the 1980s and, and still I sat on it. I, I waited and waited and, uh, it was probably not until about 2017 or so, uh, when my wife's parents who had come down to North Carolina to live nearby, both passed away a period of about six months. Wow. And we were up in New Jersey and in the cemetery where my adoptive mother's family was insured. And, and for some reason, standing there over her parents, uh, gravestone, I just got the edge and I, when we got home, I started the search.

Terry - AGEUcational (03:22):

That's amazing that that would have been hard to, to bring up. I mean, at any time to have the hard conversation about adoption, um, you know, did you, did you feel, did you maybe feel like it was, um,

Ed (03:40):

Not

Terry - AGEUcational (03:40):

Respectful of your adoptive parents to talk about your birth parents? I, I always feel like that would be kind of a hard, I don't know if I'm saying it properly, but it, that would be a hard pull.

Ed (03:54):

No, Terry, I thinks it's a very good insight. You know, my, my feeling was always that I lived a pretty gifted life. You know, my adoptive parents could, could not have cared for me and provided for me any better than they, than they possibly would have for, uh, for their naturally born child. But, uh, you know, the more I think about it, and this is only in, in recent months, I I'm sure there was some element in mind thinking that, uh, it would show a lack of gratitude to, to question it. And I, I think with my mom in particular, you know, it, I think every adoptive mother probably feels threatened that they will

Terry - AGEUcational (04:42):

The child.

Ed (04:43):

Yeah. Well, whether somebody is going to come back and take them or just that they won't be loved as much as, you know, what receive as much love as they've given. And that wasn't the case.

Terry - AGEUcational (04:53):

That's awesome. You hit the jackpot.

Ed (04:58):

So it was, um, you know, I finally fished out that piece of paper, which was the adoption decree and the decree had my adoptive parents signature on it. It had their attorney's signature on it, and it had a third signature, which I did not recognize. And, but by deduction and I knew that it was my birth mother's signature. Okay.

Roy - AGEUcational - At 67 an Adoptee Seeks Out His Birth Mother and Her Captivating Story (05:21):

Okay. So is that, uh, I guess where, where does that journey start? I guess now, um, you know, it's a good thing. We've got the internet and there's so much more information actually available to us, but were they, um, I guess once you started looking, were they close to the area where you lived in or were they, uh, some distance away and how does that process, oops, sorry, kind of, how does that process look when you start to unfold that and follow that trail?

Ed (05:51):

Well, as you said, the internet makes things a lot easier than they ever were in the past. And as I started to search, you know, having the gift of my birth mother's maiden name, it gave me, uh, a breadcrumb to work with and start the search. And as it turned out, you know, she li I was brought home from the hospital at a day old to my parents' apartment, which was probably only about three city blocks away from where my birth mother had grown up. Oh my gosh. Wow. And, you know, as I grew up, you know, we made a couple of moves, but I grew up probably a 15 minute bus ride from where my birth mother spent her, her high school years before she went off on her career. So we were very, very close. You know, it's one of those, one of those things where, you know, just, we might've passed on the street, never known it.

Roy - AGEUcational - At 67 an Adoptee Seeks Out His Birth Mother and Her Captivating Story (06:51):

Yeah. That's another thing I always think about is, especially, you know, if you're in that close of an environment, is, did you ever, um, I, you know, were you able, able to ever uncover of crossing paths with any of your, you know, maybe extended family cousins or grandparents or something like that where you didn't really even know who they were at the time?

Ed (07:15):

No, I couldn't say that. I did find that. Okay. Uh, you know, we were, we were close and yeah. In proximity, but there was nothing in our, in our personal lives that would have brought us that close together.

Roy - AGEUcational - At 67 an Adoptee Seeks Out His Birth Mother and Her Captivating Story (07:28):

Okay. Interesting. So, um, I guess maybe for a minute, if you want to, I don't want to, you know, if you're uncomfortable, that's understandable, but you know, kind of water those emotions that you must have felt, you know, once you started unpacking this, I know, you know, probably excited in the beginning, but as you go through this process, do you ever maybe think it's not a good idea or are you always motivated to keep pushing?

Ed (07:56):

Uh, I was constantly motivated, you know, I, I say in the book that, you know, it was rare during my childhood that they even gave much thought to who my mother was, can tell you probably gave no thought to who my father was, but I made the assumption that she was probably some high school girl who stayed out late one night and, you know, and then found out she had a problem to deal with. And it wasn't, it wasn't that at all. You know, as I started to peel back the layers on this, you know, I, I went, I went to our local library and I, I used ancestry.com and plugged in her name. And, you know, the first thing that came up using her name was a, was a visa application filled out the year after I was born traveling from Miami, Florida to Rio de Janeiro.

Ed (08:47):

And it had her picture on it. And that just floored me. You know, you can always imagine, you think, and, you know, but to see the picture was one thing. And then I was, I was certainly left with some level of confusion about, you know, what's, what's my mother doing, going to Rio de Janeiro. And it, you know, it listed her, it was written in, in Portuguese, but I could, I could make out pieces of it. And it elicits her profession as an Artista and no clue had no idea what kind of an artists that she might be. And that that's where their search really began. I also found that she was 23 years old at the time that I was born.

Roy - AGEUcational - At 67 an Adoptee Seeks Out His Birth Mother and Her Captivating Story (09:32):

So was she actually, uh, from Rio de Janeiro or is that, was she from the States and just aren't going to see family or was she just going down there for work?

Ed (09:43):

She was going there for work. What I ultimately found out, and this took a little bit of digging, but, you know, as they kept on going through the records, I found a, a marriage certificate for her, which was, she got married about seven years after I was born. And after she had surrendered me for adoption and it provided her husband's name obviously. And, you know, and I found out that she had also adopted a stage name and using those, I was able to deduce that my mother had been a, uh, a celebrity performer in the big ice skating shows in the 1940s in the 1950s. Wow, interesting. So when she returned to skating, after my birth in 1948, she joined, uh, a touring show called the ice Vogues. They were a part of the holiday on ice group and she returned and their first step was Dayton, Ohio, but their next step was Havana Cuba. Then they returned to the States and then they went for a six month engagement South America. Oh my gosh. Wow.

Roy - AGEUcational - At 67 an Adoptee Seeks Out His Birth Mother and Her Captivating Story (10:56):

So how long did this process take, uh, you know, from the, from the day you said, I really want to do this and, and digging out the adoption papers, you know, kind of what does that timeline and, uh, you know, and where you retired at the time he did this. So were you devoting full-time or were you still working and maybe just doing it on the weekends?

Ed (11:17):

Yeah, it was a good thing. I was retired. It became an all consuming journey, I think. Yeah, just, just finding it nugget by nugget is a matter of fact, just before we connected here today. Uh, I still, the I'm still digging for pieces that I've tried to find out more details about that, that South American trip. And somebody had sent me a picture and a, that, and an advertisement basically saying, you know, that they were in Havana from December 26th, of 1948 through January 10th. And the whole story has been like that. Just taking one little piece at a time. So the entire process to really come up with the complete story. And I wouldn't say it's totally finalized, uh, took probably the better part of two, two and a half years. And, you know, that was tracing down my mother's story. It was tracing down relatives who, who didn't know about me and I didn't know about them. And, you know, it's been a great journey.

Terry - AGEUcational (12:26):

Did you go into this project intending to write a book or did it just kind of fall into that?

Ed (12:34):

I, you know, I, I went into this nut thinking I was going to write a book. I never knew there was a story. Yeah. And, you know, and so, you know, there was no story expected and no book intended, but the more I found, you know, it was, I kept on thinking. I said, boy, this is, you know, this is story worth sharing. And I did have a friend who kept on poking me and saying, you really need to write a book. And, you know, as I started writing about my search, you know, in a series of memoirs and as I started to uncover my mother's story, and I think she was a rather remarkable woman, uh, I started to record her story. And a lot of that, you know, she, I found out ultimately that she was no longer alive. She had passed away about five years prior. And, but I've met some cousins. I met people who had known her, unfortunately, and just given the ages, there weren't that many still, still around, but, but I was able to pretty well come up with her entire chronology and itinerary. And based on the discussions with the, with those folks, I was able to pretty well piece together what, you know, what probably happened at each of those stops and, and what connected them. So,

Terry - AGEUcational (13:58):

And you didn't end up having any brothers or sisters.

Ed (14:03):

Whereas a matter of fact, I, she had two sons who were born not long after she was married. I'm in touch with one. The second one unfortunately, is deceased. Uh, as I said earlier, they never had any expectations about who my father might've been. And I think the story pretty well played out that, you know, my mother had a summer romance and I know where it happened and when it happened and you know, at, at the time I had, even prior to beginning this search, I had sent in a DNA sample to ancestry. And some months after the, I had begun this search, I got my results back and discovered that I had a half-brother on a paternal side. And through him discovered who my birth father was. Tell us a little bit about your birth father. Um, my birth father again, was no longer alive by the time that I began my search.

Ed (15:05):

Uh, he was between wives, as it turned out. He had five of them. Wow. So he was, he was between wife number two and wife number three. I was, I was very fortunate that my paternal half brother was very, very excited to find me or me to find him and was quite open to bet the kind of man his father was. And he was just, uh, an impetuous, impulsive type of person. And yeah, he said he was probably, you know, he charmed my mother's pants right off her. And, uh, you know, interestingly, you know, when my, when his mother who is still alive, she's now 99. Wow. Uh, wanted, you know, she was a little bit concerned when she heard that there was a son out there. And yeah. So when she finally understood the chronology and put the pieces together, they hadn't met until after I was at least conceived.

Ed (16:10):

She was much more comfortable. And, um, I've, I've lost track of time with, with COVID, but we made a trip out to California. They live in San Francisco and I went, I went to visit my brother and he said, my mother would like to meet you if you want to do that. And I was, I was quite hoping that I could couldn't meet her. And, you know, we went out there and, and, you know, and she was very nice. She met my son, she met my wife and then she dismissed them. She, you know, she told my, half-brother go show them their house. I want to talk to him. And, and she was very, very generous. She said, I just wanted to tell you what I could about your father. And yeah. And it was, it was a terribly generous thing. You know, she was, she didn't pull any punches, but, you know, but she, you know, she explained, you know, his background and his family and, you know, and the, the disadvantages he grew up with, I think somehow, you know, explaining, you know, what, what made him, the person he was. So

Roy - AGEUcational - At 67 an Adoptee Seeks Out His Birth Mother and Her Captivating Story (17:20):

During the process, what was the biggest surprise? I mean, I, I want to separate this between the process and what you found out, because I understand that, you know, finding out your mom was a star in the ice skating world. I mean, that's pretty cool, but, uh, beyond that, you know, what are some, uh, surprises that you found out about the process itself, but then also some other surprises that you found out, you know, about your history, your family history. Yeah. I think

Ed (17:50):

The greatest surprise, I may be not as surprised, but it was certainly, uh, uh, a pleasant revelation is just how nice and how generous people can be. Now. I reached out to people who didn't know me. I reached out to people who didn't know the story for the most part and explained, and I got an outpouring of responses that were just totally generous, whatever they knew, whatever they had, you know, was returned to me. I think that was reflection of my birth mother, because everything I heard about was, you know, she was a generous person. She was a good person. And so I think she probably surrounded herself with people like that. But, you know, people just were very, very embracing and very, very free with sharing information and recollections and, you know, it's been a constant story like that.

Roy - AGEUcational - At 67 an Adoptee Seeks Out His Birth Mother and Her Captivating Story (18:53):

Oh, that's awesome. So I guess now going through the process, uh, were there, uh, were there roadblocks? I know we think that the internet gives us a lot of information and it does, but you know, sometimes when we start going through these channels, it's not quite as easy as, Hey, I typed in this name and then it's just a flood of information comes up. Sometimes it is that easy, but, you know, kind of was that journey difficult? Were there times that you just, uh, felt like that you had hit or hit a roadblock and just said, I can't go any further?

Ed (19:29):

Well, I'd never get to the point where I was about to give up. Okay. Uh, you know, I, as you said, I, the internet gave me a flood of information, but what it gave me was a flood of information about my mother in 1948, 1955 and 1962, but it's sort of stopped at that point. Um, you know, I found some records on ancestry that I, that I searched, um, which put her in Georgia with her family and to the point that I hadn't addressed, but I S I didn't know she was dead. I didn't know if she was alive. And I started sending handwritten letters and they kept on coming back returned, you know, not at this address. And I did the same thing with my, my maternal half-brother, who had been all over the map in Georgia. And every one of them came back, not known at this address. So, you know, we were really at the point of saying, uh, you know, maybe I need to find myself a detective or something to go and search them out, because I just didn't have the, the research sources to go running all over Georgia looking. Right.

Roy - AGEUcational - At 67 an Adoptee Seeks Out His Birth Mother and Her Captivating Story (20:44):

So what are some tips, uh, you know, because I think, uh, as we age these questions, you know, maybe in the middle of life, we're busy and it's not that important. And I think, you know, maybe as we get to, uh, you know, as we age, these become more important, but what are some tips that you may want to offer others that are out there that maybe want to undertake this, or maybe they're in the middle of undertaking this

Ed (21:09):

Well, to those who want to undertake it? You know, this is, uh, I get the question quite often, you know, how do you write a book? And I think it's the same thing. You start, you know, do something, take some action and, you know, and, and approach it. You have to approach it with a sense of curiosity. Uh, I think had I been afraid of what I would find I'd never would have started, but I just dove in and, you know, and it's, it's been very, very rewarding that way. I think, you know, you need to be, um, you need to persevere, you will hit those occasional brick walls, and there are ways around them, and there are people out there and resources to help you help you through them. Um, I think if you're looking at an adoption story in particular, you know, you brought up the point of is this disrespectful to the people involved, you know, it's, I think take the chance if you have somebody you can talk to talk to them, and if you don't, then there's, nobody's feelings to hurt at this point. Yeah. You know, to just move forward with it. I wish I had started earlier, and I wish that I had asked more questions earlier,

Terry - AGEUcational (22:32):

But it's awesome that, I mean, that you started it at 67, what a, what a wonderful undertaking and, and that you've found maybe, well, humanity has, has risen up to your occasion and everybody wanted to help what a great gift right there. I mean, not only to find that, that your family and all about your mother, but the humanity, humanitarian aspect of it is amazing to me.

Ed (23:05):

Yeah. It's been wonderful. You know, the, it gave it renewed wonderful memories with the cousins who I've met. Um, it's certainly has given, uh, you know, my maternal half-brother who has a very, very small universe, you know, he lost his brother. His dad was older, so, so he was long deceased. He had lost his mother and, you know, so it, it brought something into his life that was not there before. Um, and the people who had known my mother yeah. It's you could them light up, you know, going back and reliving some of these memories from 50 and 60 years ago. Wow. I told a story in the book about going out to Minneapolis and meeting a woman who had been my mother's roommate in San Francisco in 1947 when I was conceived. And, you know, and she was, she was in a memory care facility and it was kind of an interesting story.

Ed (24:10):

You know, her, her son had told me, you know, the challenges, mom doesn't know anything about what she had for breakfast this morning, but mom can tell you everything that happened in 1947. And we were with her for about five hours. And when we left, you know, she hugged us and she said, this is the best day of my life for so many years just going back and living through those memories. And it was a lovely experience. You know, she, she brought so much to me and, you know, and to know that we brought something back to her. Yeah, for sure.

Roy - AGEUcational - At 67 an Adoptee Seeks Out His Birth Mother and Her Captivating Story (24:50):

You know, the, uh, the advent of DNA is, uh, are the public forums that we can put our DNA into now is got to be a big help. And, you know, a lot of people discount it because they say, well, mom or dad passed 20 years ago. There's is not going to be in there. But the nice thing about this is now you can kind of work your way backwards if you find that cousin, uh, it takes a little bit of detective work, but also if you, you know, if you just upload it, it'll show you all these connections and then you can kind of work yourself back from there.

Ed (25:27):

Yeah, you're exactly right. You can, you can make some, some pretty fascinated discoveries that way. And I guess, you know, if, if you've got folks who are worried about, you know, well, I'm going to hurt somebody's feelings, so I'm going to keep this a secret. You know, I think the, the underlying message of DNA and, and the recreational DNA testing is there are no more secrets. Right? Exactly. You know, it's, there's a whole community out there that they call the, the, the NPS or the nut parent expected communities where you, you know, you find secrets that have been hidden for a long time. And, you know, it's probably better if you know what the story is to share it. Yeah. Um, you know, and, and everybody, I think, benefits from that.

Terry - AGEUcational (26:17):

Yeah. Yeah. What are your thoughts about passing down family histories

Ed (26:22):

During, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

Terry - AGEUcational (26:24):

What, what are your thoughts about passing down family histories?

Ed (26:28):

I think it's a great thing. If, if I have a single regret, it's, it's, it's not asking my adoptive parents more about, about their background. I know everything in general, but I, I said to my wife the other day, you know, now that I think about it, I don't even know how my adoptive parents met. And she said, Oh, I know how they met. They met in the signal Corps, you know, and I would like to know more of those details. And as I said earlier, you know, just given their ages, there aren't that many people left around to ask these questions. And I think at some point, you know, we'll have generations following us who maybe are an interested right at the moment, but they're going to say, gee, I wonder about grandma or wonder about grandpa. You know, what, where did they come from? And if somebody doesn't record that history yeah. There's, there's, there's nothing to share. You know? So my, yeah, my son is 30 years old. He's pretty cool and pretty casual. And, you know, and he's, he's been impressed that I wrote a book, but I'm not sure how impressed he is with the story itself, you know, someday he will be, or his child will be, and, you know, and at least it's recorded now. And I think that's, that's a gift to people.

Roy - AGEUcational - At 67 an Adoptee Seeks Out His Birth Mother and Her Captivating Story (27:49):

Oh yeah. You know, we encourage everybody to do that. It's the open, the communication, uh, for a couple of reasons, not only we want to find that history, but also we can start talking about our parents, our aging friends, or loved ones wants and needs. So we all know, so it's not, I have an opinion. Terry has an opinion, maybe neither one of those. Right. You know, everybody, everybody always thinks they know better. And this is a, to me it's a great segue to have those more difficult conversation is, you know, sit down and, uh, get mom, dad, grandpa, whoever sat down. Tell me a little bit about, you know, your history like myself. We have a very tight family, but I don't know anything about from my grandparents back. Um, I did the DNA thing and found out that back, I guess, around great grandfather or great, great somewhere there.

Roy - AGEUcational - At 67 an Adoptee Seeks Out His Birth Mother and Her Captivating Story (28:42):

Uh, somebody had moved to California, so I know all of our Texas people, we actually have a much larger contingent in California, which was very surprising because we don't really know any of them. But, um, anyway, we, the other thing, there are services out there it's, you can do it by hand and make it up yourself, but, um, you know, ask these questions, you know, just maybe make it once a week, ask a question then that's what we are doing with our parents is, you know, getting them to say, you know, tell us about your grandparents. And I think this week's question was where did y'all use to go on vacation? And, um, it's interesting for me. And like you said, my kids are in that 30 year range that they could probably care less about it right now, but when they get to be my age, you know, I think that they're all gonna want to know.

Ed (29:34):

Yeah. I agree with you a hundred percent. And I, I think what I hear sometimes is the, the older generations. Yeah. This is probably the bulk of them would like to talk about it, but nobody has ever asked, there are some who are reluctant to talk about it for whatever the reasons might be. Uh, you know, they just need to be prodded. And I, I, you know, I would say if you've got somebody who's who who's reluctant to talk, you know, come back to them, ask again and, you know, ask those questions and write down the answers

Terry - AGEUcational (30:09):

Or videotape them something. Some everybody wants to be remembered, you know? And, and they want their memories to live on, you know, forever to pass down to generations. And, and, uh, I, I love your story. I think it's so awesome that you did that.

Ed (30:28):

One of my cousins has told me, yeah, he he's got a, he had an elderly father who passed away who had a very interesting life. And he knew that a lot of that would get lost. He went over there one day with a, with a tape recorder and a bottle of wine and lots of extra cassettes. And he's got about four and a half hours of audio tape with the man's story. And it is, you know, I would give my, I see the here, you know, either of my adoptive parents stories or my, you know, my birth mother's stories just to hear the boys. Great idea. Yeah.

Roy - AGEUcational - At 67 an Adoptee Seeks Out His Birth Mother and Her Captivating Story (31:09):

And you know, the audio and video equipment is, um, it's very cheap. Nowadays storage is very cheap that, um, you know, there's really, it's not like long time ago when it was cost prohibitive. So I think those are great artifacts to pass down to is you may get to hear a great grandmother, tell her story in her own voice. And, uh, you just get that inflection and a lot more of that emotion in that, instead of me just telling you, this is what somebody told me and written down. So I definitely suggest that

Terry - AGEUcational (31:40):

And do it virtually. I mean, there's no re there's no reason, no, excuse not to do it. I mean, don't put it on the back burner. You can do it, you can do it at any time.

Roy - AGEUcational - At 67 an Adoptee Seeks Out His Birth Mother and Her Captivating Story (31:50):

Life is very precious and we never know, you know, when we may lose somebody and we don't have those tomorrow, so that's a good point.

Ed (31:58):

And I suppose, you know, taking another attack, if you've, if you've got a story and I know, you know, we, we have, you know, children and perhaps grandchildren, nobody is asking the questions and you want to share it. Yeah, yeah. Recorded now do it yourself. And, you know, I know there are people out there with YouTube, YouTube channels who do five minute video clips, put them up on YouTube and yeah. One day will be gone, but, you know, but all that video will remain.

Roy - AGEUcational - At 67 an Adoptee Seeks Out His Birth Mother and Her Captivating Story (32:29):

Yeah. And, you know, like even with zoom, we were talking to somebody on the other end, but you can actually fire up your own zoom, make your own recording, uh, and put it up like that we're live on forever. I think that's a great idea. Great idea. Well, thanks so much for taking time out of your day. Uh, this is such an interesting story and, um, I'm so glad that it had a good outcome and, uh, I know it it's not over with, and hopefully you'll continue to just find out more and more information. So, uh, if you wouldn't mind tell people how, how can they reach out and get a hold of, uh, get ahold of a copy of the book, or if they want to talk to you to get some advice I can prepare.

Terry - AGEUcational (33:13):

Ah, okay.

Ed (33:16):

Actually, this is a V. If you have another minute, I'll tell you a very interesting story. Uh, when we first met my maternal half brother, uh, he, he had a hard time wrapping his head around the fact that he had a half-brother. He kept in Salem. Mama would told me, and I kept on saying, nah, I don't think so. And he, he brought out my birth mother kept very, very detailed photo albums, every place she went, she took pictures and she dated them and she labeled them. And, and I knew that I had been conceived in San Francisco in 1947. Cause I knew that's where she was with her, with her skating troop. And he kept on telling him that he was, you know, she was with my daddy and I knew that they didn't meet for quite some time after that. And he brought out a photo album, which was full of, you know, the old brownies, snapshots, all black and white.

Ed (34:13):

And they started with her career in 1942. And we're flipping pages, one black and white snapshot after, after the other. And he, you know, and I said, Ted, you know, she was in San Francisco in 1947. And we finally, you know, get up to the 1946 page and, and turned over to the next page. And this photograph, which was the only color photograph in the album was in the center of the next page. And I don't know, the, you can read it, but at the top says August, 1947, San Francisco, California. And it was like, it was a gift that was just magically planted there. Wow. And you know, and from then on, you know, he, he, he sort of said, well, I guess all women have a secret. Um, so he

Terry - AGEUcational (35:07):

It's our super power.

Ed (35:09):

So yeah, he, he was a believer. He became a believer and we stay in fairly close touch.

Terry - AGEUcational (35:15):

I love that. His name is ed. I mean, your name is ed. His name's Ted.

Ed (35:19):

Yeah. Y'all went there. A bunch of names, similarities too. But, but the book is called the gift best. Given a memoir, it was published in 2020 it's can be ordered through any bookstore or it's available through all online retailers. And I have a website and if it's ordered through the website, it can be done via credit card or PayPal. I'll be happy to personalize an autograph, the book and, and ship it out the next day. And the website is www.digangiauthor.com. It's D I G a N G I author.com.

Roy - AGEUcational - At 67 an Adoptee Seeks Out His Birth Mother and Her Captivating Story (36:03):

All right, ed. And we'll be sure to include that in the show notes so people can reach out and pick up a copy. Yeah. It looks like an interesting read and such a great story. So I guess the message is a lot of messages for me, you know, if you still have living relatives, communicate, get some things written down on tape, audio, video, never too late. If you were adopted and maybe want to, uh, uh, seek out, you know, that's an individual decision. If you want to seek out your birth family, uh, it's so much, uh, there's so much information out there that I can only assume it's a little easier now than it may have been, you know, 20, 30, 40 years ago. So it can be done. And, uh, as ed has had an, a happy ending to his story, we can only wish everybody has that same happy ending as well. But again, thanks a lot, ed. We certainly do appreciate it. And, uh, that's going to do it for another episode of educational. Of course I am. Roy Terry. Thank you, ed. We appreciate it very much,

Ed (37:04):

Carrie. Thank you so much, right. Thank you for the invitation to join you.

Roy - AGEUcational - At 67 an Adoptee Seeks Out His Birth Mother and Her Captivating Story (37:08):

Now, if you can find us at www.ageucational.com, we are also on all the social media channels and, uh, a video of this recording of this interview will go up on YouTube when it goes live as well. We're on all the major podcast platforms, iTunes, Stitcher, Spotify, Google. If we're not on one that you listened to, please reach out. We'll be glad to get you at it. So until next time y'all take care of yourself.

 

www.digangiauthor.com

www.ageucational.com

Don't Get Caught Up in a Romance Scam. Hear One Woman's Story and Warning with Debby Montgomery

This is Debby's story of how what started out to be love turned into a scam in which she lost over $1 million dollars. The story starts like any other online romance but then took that turn we all fear. He wasn't who she thought he was and was probably a professional group in a call center. Here this story so you can protect yourself and your loved ones.

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About Debby

Victim Advocate, Founder of The Woman Behind The Smile, Inc., a 501 (c)(3) non profitDebby Montgomery Johnson, Founder of The Woman Behind The Smile, Inc,  #1 Best Selling Author, International Speaker, Entrepreneur, and a Podcast host, is a woman on a mission.  In her book, “The Woman Behind The Smile” she shares her personal experience with a love that turned into betrayal and financial disaster and she removes the mask of shame and shows others how to do the same.  Many of us have something, something we’re hiding, something we’re ashamed of, something that through no fault of our own or through our own making keeps us hidden from each other and the world.

From Vermont and a graduate of the Phillips Exeter Academy and the University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill, Debby is the President of BenfoComplete.com, a vitamin supplement company that provides an alternative remedy for the pain of neuropathy.  Products and educational information can be found at www.BenfoComplete.com.

Debby’s background is diverse from working as a paralegal and Senior bank branch manager to being a U.S. Air Force Intelligence Officer serving at the Pentagon, The Defense Intelligence Agency, and in Germany.

Debby has appeared on “The Dr. Oz Show”, CBS This Morning, The Mel Robbins Show, The Tamron Hall Show, WPEC CBS Channel 12 and WPTV NBC Channel 5, in addition to being featured in the Palm Beach Post.  She is regularly called upon by reporters for expert commentary about relationship fraud. 

Debby is just like you – a woman on a mission to live an authentic, joyful life as the Woman WITH the Smile rather than behind it.  She is available for speaking engagements.

www.thewomanbehindthesmile.com
www.ageucational.com

Full Transcript Below

Roy - AGEUcational - Don’t Get Caught Up in a Romance Scam. Hear One Woman’s Story and Warning (00:02):

Hello, and welcome to another episode of educational. This is Roy. This is Terry. So we are a podcast that not only chronicling our journey through, uh, aging, but also, you know, we ha we both have aging parents. And so a lot of challenges, roadblocks hurdles come up, uh, navigating that. So we just want to let people know you're not alone. There are other people that do go through the same challenges. And what we hope to do is not only provide some insight on some things that we've done, but we also have guests, uh, come on from time to time and can talk, you know, professionals or storytellers. And today is no different. We have an awesome guest. We've been waiting a couple of weeks to get on tape. So we're excited to have Debbie here and I'll let Terry give her an introduction.

Terry - AGEUcational (00:49):

Thank you, Roy Debby, Montgomery Johnson is the founder of the woman behind the smile, Inc. It's a number one bestselling author, international speaker, entrepreneur, and a podcast host. She is a woman on a mission in her book, the woman behind the smile, she shares her personal experience with a love that turned into betrayal and financial disaster. And she removes the mask of shame and shows others how to do the same. Many of us have something, something that we're hiding, something that we're ashamed of, something that through no fault of our own or through our making keeps us hidden from each and other. And the world Debbie's background is diverse from working as a paralegal and senior bank branch branch manager, to being a us air force intelligence officer serving at the Pentagon, the defense intelligence agency, and in Germany, Debbie, welcome this morning. We're, we're not excited to speak about the topic, but very happy that you are spreading, you know, sharing your story and spreading the message about how scams can, um, affect everybody. Thank you for coming.

Debby (02:03):

Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it.

Terry - AGEUcational (02:05):

So can you just give us a little bit, uh, uh, uh, what happened to you and, um, where you are today?

Debby (02:16):

Yeah, absolutely. Uh, this started, this habit actually has happened to me almost 10 years ago. My, uh, my husband I've taught 26 years, had gone on a business trip left on a Wednesday afternoon, Thursday morning. I was in a business meeting with of my own company and I got a call from my oldest son, actually left a message that said, mom, dad just died. And that was a pause. He goes, I'm coming home to take care of everything. And obviously I hadn't planned on that and he died suddenly and he was only 56 that, that threw me into now, what do I do? I had to run his company, had to run mine. I had my four children, they were 15 to 23 and I was, I was just, uh, stumped. I had not planned on that obviously. Uh, and so it just threw my life into something that I had.

Debby (03:09):

I, I didn't know where to navigate. I had friends, you know, that all of a sudden I was surrounded by people that said, we need to do this and this and this and, and life took on, on, on motion of its own. And for six months, that's what it was. I had to learn how to run loose company, had to keep the bills paid, keep the roof over my head. And I was living life just in, I call it suspended animation. And, you know, I put that smile up and tried to be so self-sufficient and show the world that I was okay, but inside I was really falling apart and sure I had between 12, midnight and four o'clock was really the only time I had to myself and I laid my in that King sized bed, all alone thinking, you know, now what I got mad at Lou for dying, I got sad because they didn't know really where I was going to go and how to do things.

Debby (04:01):

Then all of a sudden, you know, my girlfriends were saying to me, you need a life, get a life. You've got to get out of the office. You got to do something other than just work. And that's when they got me into thinking about online dating, thinking about dating, which at 52 was a daunting man. That's for sure. Uh, all those, those anxieties of when I was a kid came out, you know, about the, you're not pretty enough smart enough, all those things, which was totally ridiculous, but it was a true feeling. Those were true feelings that I just, it was anxiety ridden. And when they said, you know, why don't you try online dating? It might be safe.

Speaker 4 (04:41):

Oh,

Debby (04:44):

Either my safe need or went off drill this. Okay.

Roy - AGEUcational - Don’t Get Caught Up in a Romance Scam. Hear One Woman’s Story and Warning (04:49):

Yeah. And the other part of that is, uh, you know, the dating world has had changed a lot. I'm sure from, you know, the time that you were dating in your teens and early twenties until now the it's just such a different after marriage. Yeah. It's such a different world out there.

Debby (05:07):

It is funny though. When people, when you ask folks how they've met their significant other, those that met online, still kind of go, I met online

Speaker 4 (05:18):

Roy and I must confess. Yes, we did.

Debby (05:23):

We did. But when you tell people that, you know, maybe you guys don't, but many people do kind of talk under, you know, under their breath seriously that online, there's no stigma, but it's, it's even though it's out there and honestly the 20, some 30 somethings, that's all there. That's the only way they're dating what they know, wipes and all that. That's so different

Speaker 4 (05:47):

And all virtually now, you know, in this time

Debby (05:52):

It is. And that's, that can be scary. Yes. Oh my gosh. So somebody finally

Roy - AGEUcational - Don’t Get Caught Up in a Romance Scam. Hear One Woman’s Story and Warning (05:58):

Talked you into a go ahead and put up a profile on one of the online services. Is that kind of where the story it goes from there?

Debby (06:06):

Yeah. The story went, um, I actually looked for back then. There was no, you know, on the telephone, it was all online. It was virtual. And I went to data, dating websites that I've the faith based sites that I thought would be the safest that I figured I would find the men that would most align with me spiritually and, um, emotionally, mentally. And I honestly, I was very surprised at the beginning at the quality of the 55 to 65 year old men. And I think I teased at one point it's, it's the wife beater, t-shirts the guys with the motorcycles that they had other women. And I was like, they couldn't write worth the beans. It was, it was like a fifth grader. And I'm thinking my, my late husband was very accomplished and very articulate and worked as a briefer for the air force at the Pentagon.

Debby (07:00):

And I'm thinking, this is not what I want until I got an email from a gentleman who was, had his PhD. He was an international businessman from London and he was a widower with a son. And the only trepidation was okay, have my kids, the youngest was 15. I didn't want to raise another family, but I would be willing to be mom to a boy. I think he was around 10. I could take on that. And, and I did. And he was, you know, it was delightful initially because he wrote well, and even though we don't speak on the phone at that point, I could see that his, his bio was good. I checked out the company that he said he was working for. I checked out their website. I did my due diligence. Um, and that was important because I want it to be safe. Right.

Terry - AGEUcational (07:50):

Yeah. Because so many people don't don't even do that due diligence. I mean, you know, they just kind of take people at their word that, you know, they are who they say they are. And I hate to,

Roy - AGEUcational - Don’t Get Caught Up in a Romance Scam. Hear One Woman’s Story and Warning (08:02):

Yeah. I was just going to say too. And I, I think that, um, in my opinion, don't have any research to back this up, but I think that, uh, people who were out to do no good take advantage of the, uh, faith based, um, dating sites, because they know that those are people who are probably going to be a lot more trusting just by their nature. So unfortunately I think it kinda, um, it draws in the people that have bad intentions.

Debby (08:33):

That's a very true statement. And unfortunately it's not, it's not only those sites, but they are, they are particularly. And if you show that you're a widow or divorced, I always think back now that we wouldn't be on those dating sites, if we were married

Terry - AGEUcational (08:51):

Well, you wouldn't think, I mean, that's been proven to be

Debby (08:56):

Wrong think,

Terry - AGEUcational (09:00):

Oh my gosh. So, so you, you became involved in this online, um, romance and you know, how long did this go on before? Yeah, go ahead.

Debby (09:18):

It went all in total. It was, it was almost two years, which to, most people think that's extraordinary, but after Lou died, I really, I wasn't ready for a physical relationship. I'd been married for 26 years. I was looking for someone that I could talk to, that I could be a companion with and Eric was overseas. So it actually was very good for me because I was able to write to him. And I found at that point in my life, it was much easier for me to write out my feelings than to speak them. And it was, I guess, very therapeutic to just get out all the sadness and the grief and the frustrations and all running the company try. And we actually talked a lot about business and because I was running the business by myself, I it's an internet company. I was at home alone. And so when I heard that ding, ding, ding of the Yahoo chat and thinking, well, this is great. Now Erickson, we would be writing to each other for hours. And we, I mean, nothing was off the table. As far as conversation, his family, my family, what happened to his wife when she died, what happened to lube, the kids missing. It was extraordinary friendship that developed, but it developed rather quickly.

Roy - AGEUcational - Don’t Get Caught Up in a Romance Scam. Hear One Woman’s Story and Warning (10:30):

Yeah. Well just looking back, I know it's hard sometimes when you're in the moment, but now looking back, um, was he leading you down a road with the conversation like steering you to, I don't know. Sometimes people, you know, they have those, uh, suggestive ways or suggestive questions or have a habit of steering a topic to a place that when you look back, you can say, Oh, that was very manipulative. Trying to move me over into that space.

Debby (10:59):

Absolutely. And hindsight's 2020. And I look back now and actually, I, I, this is interesting. I was interviewed on Saturday, uh, for a national geographic documentary. That's coming out next year. And I had to go through my journals. I have 4,000 pages of journal, which chronic mold. It was every email message that I got from him that I put into my online journal thinking it was going to be family history. As I was looking back at those emails, it was somewhat of a trigger. And this has been a while for me. So I don't get triggered often, but I did see that the, they never use your name. It's honey. My love sweetheart, that way, again, looking back and knowing what I know they could be talking to a hundred women at once and they don't have to remember your name because if they do, they call it Terry, Debbie and Debbie Suzy, that's a red pen red flag.

Debby (11:55):

Right? Wow. He did that. And then the other thing, Ashley, we lit, found this email. Uh, it was the very first time he and I was talking, talking about what was real love. And I think I mentioned to that to him, that I had fallen in love in real love twice in my lifetime one was with my very first boyfriend and then with my husband. And so he went on to say, well, is our relationship real is our love real. And it was very soon into writing that he did that. And I recall that feeling like, are you sure you want to say this stuff to me right now? Because we don't really know each other. Right. But then after awhile it felt really nice that someone was falling in love with me again. And I needed that validation and absolutely was that a ploy on his part.

Debby (12:43):

And that's the way they groom you into the relationship and they become your lifeline. He became my lifeline. And then cause my, my kids were gone except for my youngest. And he was, he was busy. He was busy with football and yeah, Eric became my life and it was very, it was fun. You know, the excitement of the dating at 15 or 16, all the endorphins in the excitement. And it was joy. It brought me joy in a time when I was overwhelmed with running the company and work and trying to keep life going. It was the few hours of the day that were pure joy for me. Wow. For the most part

Speaker 4 (13:23):

Hits you so vulnerable vulnerably and it just at your, at, at your deepest level. Oh my gosh.

Roy - AGEUcational - Don’t Get Caught Up in a Romance Scam. Hear One Woman’s Story and Warning (13:32):

Well, and you mentioned the, um, ambiguity of the honeys and the babies. So do you know now, what did he have multiple conversations? He worked in multiple angles while he was talking to you, or do you think that after a certain point that he was strictly focused on you?

Debby (13:53):

No. And let me, you know, to put it out there for transparency's sake, I do work with an organization. It's an international organization that works with victims and I've learned a lot since then. And the scammers are not working by themselves. They used to be called the Yahoo boys. And we would think that they were these groups of five or six guys in the internet cafe. Right? These are, these are huge groups of people working together in call centers. And they, I didn't have, you know, one guy that was mine. And I thought about this afterwards, like, cause one night I remember I had three Yahoo. We went onto the Yahoo chat very quickly. He got me off the website, the dating site. And one night I had three open chats going one with his sister in England and his son, one with his attorney and one with him. And in the back of my mind, I'm thinking after the fact, how did they do that? How did, how did I, you know, I said, I thought I was talking to Mary and Kenny, I thought it was talking to Peter. And then the fact is, how do they remember what I was saying? Yeah. I was keeping my journal. They actually keep record. They keep playbooks so that other people can step in to the story. Oh my God. I didn't know that obviously. Um, I've learned a lot.

Speaker 4 (15:07):

Wow. So as you're progressing through this, uh, did y'all ever eventually meet,

Debby (15:16):

Not in person? Uh, because he had, he was in Houston, my Texas connection. He started, he started in Houston and then weeks into it, he got a job. He was an independent contractor. He got a job in Malaysia, moving hardwood, trees from Malaysia to India. I had investments in trees, which he didn't know about. So I kind of understood what he was doing and when he left the country, but I left, he left the country. There were times when we would have internet connection problems. He couldn't get on the Skype. There was no FaceTime back then. But when I asked, can we connect somehow, there was always an issue of connectivity and I didn't know any better. I, I had traveled around the world, but never to the far East like that. And so when you said I can't get on or I've got intermittent, um, connection.

Debby (16:06):

I believed him. I had no reason to not believe him. Right, right. And so we did most of our, most of our talking, as I put it through Yahoo chat, it was instant messaging and it was fun. It was real time. It was fun. I did talk to him just a couple of times. And one was when my son got ahold of an email or a message and just went off the rails. And so Eric called me and I'd heard his voice. He had a British accent, which fit into the story that he was from London. Uh, another time I think it might've been when, when he asked me to help him financially, the first time I I'm one of those Yankees. I don't like to give away money to just anybody. But at one point early on, he started to be part of my family.

Debby (16:51):

And I like to say that I would do almost anything for my family. And when he became that person for me, I wanted to help him. And that's when I think he knew he had me because I gave a lot to him, to his business and to him personally, to help out with, with, uh, personal daily things. Uh, but you know, looking back on that it was a slow process, but then it sped up and there's a lot of urgency to it after a while. And you're thinking, Oh my gosh, I got to get to the bank right now. I'd better do this right now. Or he's, you know, gonna get arrested or he's gonna not get out of the hospital or he's not going to be able to move the trees where they need to move it because customs has it. So there's a lot to it.

Speaker 4 (17:31):

So what was his first ad? I mean, did, did any red flags go up when he, when he made that first financial ask and what was the first financial app?

Debby (17:43):

It's interesting. It's like any scam that the financial ask at first is relatively right. And in our case, he wanted, he had a friend who was an engineer out of the country and he was having difficulty getting onto the dating site. So Eric said, Hey, would you send a check-in to the dating site to get so-and-so? I can't remember his name, get him a profile. And I'm like, well, sure, because you know my experience there, weren't a lot of men and I'm thinking more, the merrier let's get some good guys. Let's get some educated guys. So that was it. It was, it was under a hundred dollars. And I sent a check in to the website. So just kind of, uh, you know, and that started it, that started it. They saw that I was willing to help out. And again, I had had no reason to trust it.

Debby (18:29):

It wasn't really for what he asked me to help with. Um, and then, and then soon after that, then, then it got into the business aspect of it. We were having difficulty with him moving something, and we had a terror. We had a customs issue and owning a company. I do realize that sometimes you don't get paid until after the job's completed. Right. And that's what was happening here. It was a big job and he wasn't going to get paid until it was done. Again, the urgency let's get this done so we can get you home. Yeah. And at that point, I'm thinking, okay, if I can help him move this forward faster than I was willing. Sure. But it was parked.

Roy - AGEUcational - Don’t Get Caught Up in a Romance Scam. Hear One Woman’s Story and Warning (19:09):

I want to back up just a minute. How, how long, uh, how long I know it's all fictitious, but how long did he make you think that he was in the country before he moved off shore in the,

Debby (19:23):

Had his first business trip? He was here a couple of weeks and it was through Thanksgiving. I remember Thanksgiving day, my mom and dad were here and I thought, well, I've got this Brit on the line and he's never had a Thanksgiving. So for the whole day we were chatting, I was telling him about the Turkey and about the preparations and what my father was doing. And it was really fun thinking, okay, we're going to start this new tradition and I'm going to tell him what it's like being, you know, Thanksgiving in America. And after that, of course, then my mom and dad got all wrapped up into it because they could see how excited I was. I literally had my computer on, in the other room and it was on all day long. We were going back and forth all day long. So after that, I mean, we spent a lot of time together and it was many times in the middle of the night for me, because I thought he was in Hong Kong and Malaysia in India made sense that it would be the middle of the night. We'll often me the next day, but it was worth the excitement to, to do that.

Roy - AGEUcational - Don’t Get Caught Up in a Romance Scam. Hear One Woman’s Story and Warning (20:28):

And I think it just, uh, you know, to point out that these guys have gotten much better, they've refined their game, that, you know, back in the old days, it was more of, Hey, um, I'm on a mission trip. You know, these are the ones that I've heard relayed that I'm on a mission trip and lost my wallet. I need a plane ticket home or money to eat or get a motel. And so I just find it interesting that this, uh, this was smart enough to start on shore in the U S but then, you know, within a couple of weeks, fairly quickly transitioned to off shore where he could get in that the rhythm of, I guess, his time zone, where they live, that he, he had a reason to be up in the middle of the night, talking to you instead of during the day.

Debby (21:16):

Right. And again, remember if it wasn't just one guy, so time, time zones wouldn't make a difference because they weren't 24 seven call center call, but it has, the game is really, it's been up to, uh, they're very, well-trained now there, it's international, it's full multi-billion dollar economy that we're talking about here. And so far, technologically below beyond any of us. And we're all pretty well-trained, but they're very good at what they do. Yeah.

Roy - AGEUcational - Don’t Get Caught Up in a Romance Scam. Hear One Woman’s Story and Warning (21:47):

So how long, you know, and then I want you to share what you feel comfortable sharing. So we'll put that kind of put that limit on it, but, uh, so like how many ask were there and then how long did it, did that part drag out? And then what was the final aha moment for you?

Debby (22:08):

Okay, well, there were many asks and again, incrementally, they got larger and larger because we were, we were looking at a really big business transaction. And what started off as, you know, Western union, $2,500, this is for power of attorneys to a hundred thousand dollar wires to get product. Or these trees moved across the Indian ocean. I mean, it was an extraordinary thing. And so again, we were, we were in our relationship for almost two years. And then on September 10th, 2012, I'll never forget that date. Uh, he came online and we were typing to each other and he said, Deb, how do you feel about forgiveness? And I we'd had many spiritual experiences. And again, I met him on a faith based site, so it wasn't surprising. Right? And we talked for hours about that. And then we got disconnected again, not something unusual. And when he came back, he said, let's revisit what we were talking about this morning.

Debby (23:09):

Do you remember what we were talking about this morning? So again, we went over forgiveness and finally I was writing and I said, Eric, have I done something wrong? I said, why, why are we having this discussion? He said, well, because I have something to tell you that I think it's going to hurt you. And I just need to know that you can forgive me for doing this. And I was thinking to myself at that point, we'll you don't need to tell me you don't need to be hurting me. Leave me in the dark. He goes, no deputies. I have a confession. And it that I just had this gut does knife in the gut because I'd actually heard that once while I was married and we were happily married, but anybody who's been married for over a week knows that you get the ups and downs and all sorts of ins and outs and being married.

Debby (23:51):

And I had heard, I have a confession and it wasn't a happy thing for me. And when I heard Eric say that, I was like, Oh wow. You know, I don't want to hear this. And he goes, Deb, I have to confess, this has all been a scam. And when I heard that, I'm thinking you're, something's wrong. You're ill. You're, you know, there's duress there. This is not. And then I said, you're lying about that. You're lying. This can't possibly be a scam. It's been two years. Yeah. And I said, now you have to prove it to me. And he goes, okay, I'm going to come on, live on Yahoo chat. And of course, I'd asked him that for two years come online. I said, how do we do that? And he walked me through, so here on visualize my dual screens in my office, and I have my handsome Britt up on those screens.

Debby (24:36):

And in the corner of my computer screen pops up a little camera live. And I'm looking at this dark hair, dark eyes, dark skin, young men with a big smile on his face. And I just get that, Oh my gosh, feeling, you know what has happened here? But in an instant, it was my, my heart was separated from the story. And my mind finally took over. I picked up my camera and my phone, and I took a picture of that young man. I have one picture of the real guy. And he was a young Nigerian felon name was not Eric. He was not from London. He was era Joseph from Lagos, Nigeria, not once in two years. Did I hear Africa, Nigeria, any place that would have been a lights on for me? I was, I was a former Intel officer for the air force.

Debby (25:26):

I would have known instantly. So he had this big smile on his face and he was thinking, Hey, can we keep this going? And I looking at him like, are you out of your mind? And he said, is it because I'm black and young? And I'm like, no, it's because you've lied to me for two years and you stole over a million dollars from me. Wow. And that's when I hear the backroom, like people go, Ooh, let me make it clear. I did not have a million dollars in the bank waiting, but I sold jewelry. I cashed in my retirement accounts. I did whatever I could to help him out. And I even asked my mother and dad for help. And they gave me a hundred thousand dollars, which out of the whole million, it's that a hundred thousand. That bothered me the most because I trusted my parents. I trusted him that we could pay them back very quickly. And when I knew that wasn't going to happen, uh, that just broke my heart. It just did this thing. Go ahead.

Roy - AGEUcational - Don’t Get Caught Up in a Romance Scam. Hear One Woman’s Story and Warning (26:28):

No, I'm sorry. I was just going to say, did he promise you like a, um, I know he promised to pay it back, but did he promise you a return? Like you were part like this was a business venture that if you could just help me get this done, there will be a big return for you on top of just paying you back.

Debby (26:46):

The return was he was coming home. He was coming to me and of course he was coming with all that. Plus he was going to pay me back so that, you know, had to pay my, uh, retirement accounts back quickly, or I was going to get penalize penalize. Right. Which happens. And that's the most devastating thing for, for women and men. This has happened too, is now, you know, you've got to pay those penalties back and we've got IRS issues. I mean, this opens up a huge can of worms, which people don't talk about because they're so afraid of first off the scammers know where I live. Well, they're not coming after you. They'll cowards second off. You know, how do you deal with that? Because now you've lost your retirement. You've lost some metal, some have lost their homes. They've lost family members because people think how, how ridiculous you've been.

Debby (27:35):

How could you have done that? They may be retired. They may not have an income anymore. Social security is certainly not going to pay back hundreds of thousands of dollars. And I'm working with women today that that's happening too. And they are so upset. They're depressed. They're on the verge of suicide. They don't know where to go. They don't know who to talk to. They report it to law enforcement and law enforcement basically is laughing at them because they don't understand that the victimology, a big, the musician and the psychology of a scam, it's very difficult. And it's not just online romance anymore. It is every aspect of online life. Yeah. And I know your audience is typically typically a little bit older, but I had a person the other day that they'd been scanned on a translation app. They're Vietnamese and, uh, the, uh, British, uh, businessman was coming to Vietnam and wanted to learn a couple of phrases so that he could fit in that developed into a friendship over time. And she lost money. She was a young mother, you know? Wow. Uh, words with friends. A lot of our, our audience here likes to play Scrabble games, you know, or Bible verses. There are all sorts of online platforms now. And these guys,

Roy - AGEUcational - Don’t Get Caught Up in a Romance Scam. Hear One Woman’s Story and Warning (28:55):

Even in person, I mean, you know, around here and one of the big ones is, uh, and I just saw somebody post this the other day about this guy to watch him. But, uh, it's like, uh, Hey, our company is, asphalting this road over here and we're going to have some product leftover so we can give you an awesome deal. And you know, they, they need the money up front and then you never see them again. So, you know, it can happen anywhere. So another, I mean, this is a, I have so many questions. I can't even get them out fast enough. Sorry. But, um, so why did he come clean? I mean, what was, what was the end game, as long as he had this going? Why I call it off?

Debby (29:33):

Well, I'm sure he knew that I was going to run out sooner or later, tapped out. And I mean, his story that he confessed and 99.9% of scammers are not going to confess and they are not going to come online in person. Right. His story is that he was developing feelings for me. And that may be part of the scam, but I, I felt that that might be true because you know, a little bit of our goodness has to be rubbing off on these guys has to, uh, maybe not, but in my case, I felt like it did. And he, he knew he couldn't keep it doing it. And honestly, when I asked him, I said, first of all, why are you doing it? And he, and they come up with a story about, you know, our parents, he was, um, he'd lost his parents, which may have been true.

Debby (30:22):

He was taking care of siblings, which may have been true, but the economy over there for these young boys is horrible. And so when they find something that they can make a lot of money and out of that million dollars, he might've only gotten 10,000, which was still a lot of money for me. But to him, that would be a tremendous amount of money. Right. And so he, he wanted that friendship to keep going. And it was really interesting because in my mind, I'm thinking, okay, I watch enough TV. I know what the FBI can do. I'm going to keep him engaged just so we can catch him. And when I went to the FBI and they said, well, we're sorry, unless you get them to the United States. There's nothing we can do. I just shut down, but kept in touch with him for a little while.

Debby (31:07):

And he kept in touch with me because he wanted, he said he wanted to make sure that I was going to be okay, which I thought was interesting. And I jumped back into dating. Don't ask me how in the world I could have done it. Um, and I actually met the man I remarried and that's the happy part of my story. But I married, I met my husband, uh, three months after the scam, through friends who were online, but they were matchmakers. But when I told Eric or Joseph, whatever his name was that I had met my husband and, or my, at the time of men, I was starting to date. And that I really thought it was going to go somewhere because he was local. He was geographically desirable. That's when Eric came on and said, Deb, I I'm, I'm happy that, that you're safe. He goes, I will try to get the money part of the money back to not holding my breath on that. He goes, but this is probably the last time you'll hear from me. This was like in January and he disconnected

Roy - AGEUcational - Don’t Get Caught Up in a Romance Scam. Hear One Woman’s Story and Warning (32:09):

And that's such a different environment. I'm not making excuses for them, but like, you know, they, if they're good at what they do, they can't just quit and walk away. I mean, in those environments over there, they will disappear and, you know, more than likely be, be killed or their family will be hurt too. So, uh, I'm just very surprised that, that he came on and made that admission, you know, in regards for his safety as well.

Debby (32:35):

So Lauren and honestly, it's, for me, it was the best thing he have ever done because if he had just dropped off the internet, I would have thought he'd died. Right. And then I would have felt like, I felt when I got that call from my son about my husband dying. But at this point I had given all my savings away and I felt, Oh, I would have felt awful. Yeah. So it gave me closure. And it's really interesting because I used that picture when I, when I'm talking with women that have not had that experience that have the guys who just dropped off the face of the earth, I'm like, look at this picture. This is the picture of who's been taking advantage of you. Right. And so I'm really grateful that you did that. Will that picture get him caught? I don't know. And that's not my mission. Right. His picture certainly been around the world. Yeah.

Roy - AGEUcational - Don’t Get Caught Up in a Romance Scam. Hear One Woman’s Story and Warning (33:21):

You know, like even, uh, we were talking to my mom about this interview and she was saying that she, uh, you know, I'm not going to give away her age. She's older than me obviously. But, uh, you know, she said even some of her friends at church had been through the same thing, not to your extent, but, you know, it's, uh, it happens everywhere to everybody. And I'm sure that we all know somebody that this is, uh, this is afflicted. So let's just talk for a minute, looking back, say, um, you know, what are some red flags that it's easy for you to tell now, you know, just to kind of give others that warning, uh, you know, things that they should be conscious for to, uh, you know, maybe help them avoid this.

Debby (34:06):

Sure. Absolutely. And again, it's not just dating sites because I haven't, I've heard a lot of people go, Oh, it's never going to happen to me. Never going to happen to me. It's happening on every gaming site, social media sites. So watch out for, uh, Google Hangouts. If they're moving you to a Google hangout, that is sorry, Google, but it is full of scammers. If they're requesting a Facebook,

Roy - AGEUcational - Don’t Get Caught Up in a Romance Scam. Hear One Woman’s Story and Warning (34:30):

I stopped. I'm sorry, can I stop you there? What is the, I guess, what is the lure? I know they want to move you off of that platform, but the Google Hangouts is not the first time I've heard. That's where they want to move people. Is there a reason for that, or just easier for them to communicate?

Debby (34:45):

It's easy for them. And again, they, you think that you're talking to all these friends. I was, um, talking with a woman the other day and she was sure that this Google hangout was a group of women and a couple of men. So in my mind, I'm seeing this whole group of scammers in one room, and she's the only one that's outside, but now she's friends with everybody.

Roy - AGEUcational - Don’t Get Caught Up in a Romance Scam. Hear One Woman’s Story and Warning (35:08):

Okay. Now see. So they're probably all sitting next to each other in a call center somewhere. And that way, I guess they can work her from, uh, from different angles, like, Oh, he's such a sweet guy. You should really get with him. Or, you know, something like, Hey,

Debby (35:23):

More account information happening on Yahoo check. Cause I was getting a hold of his sister, asking his sister about him, trying to validate who he was now. They're feeding me all this stuff. They wouldn't be here. But Google Hangouts, WhatsApp. WhatsApp is the all phone that they'll try to get you on WhatsApp. Now I, I have a team in India that I work with for my company. And we communicate via WhatsApp. Be careful. You don't want to be out there to everybody on WhatsApp. Be specific in who you're dealing with, uh, on Facebook, people that are trying to become your Facebook friend. Be careful if it looks too good, it's too good. If it's a military guy, it's definitely a scam. If it's a really good looking, man, always do a reverse search, a picture search to see if you can find out if that picture, those pictures have been stolen for the most part.

Debby (36:09):

Yeah. But here's there. They get really clever, especially with women's groups, they friend one person. And then now they're mutual friends. So Terry and I are in his group. You come in and you see that, she's your friend. I see that you're friends. So I would friend you thinking I trust her. She must have trust him. That must be a safe bet. Always be careful, check, check to see what their, what their friends look like. Um, and so on, on our side, clamp down your privacy settings, don't let people see your friends. Don't let them see your, you know, don't let people outside of the, in the public, see your pictures, don't put your grandkids up there. And at first I really, I had a hard time with this because I love my grandkids. But when I realized that they're taking pictures, I can get pictures off in your profile on Facebook and I can use them. And I do for my show, but my grandkids, I'm sure that the pictures that Eric sent me of his sister and his and his sister and said, those were just stolen pictures. That little boy belongs to somebody, but not him.

Roy - AGEUcational - Don’t Get Caught Up in a Romance Scam. Hear One Woman’s Story and Warning (37:17):

Yeah. And I think the other thing that I it's, it's been a while, but the, the context or the, uh, Senate structure and I'm from Texas. So my English is very poor, but, uh, you know, it's like if I can pick it out then, but that's something that a lot of times that, you know, I guess they're the non polished ones, but you know, I used to get the emails like, hello. Uh, I am S uh, you know, like my, I am Karen by name, or, you know, it's just weird stuff written in, or like, uh, you know, not long ago, there was one that's like, hi, I'm, uh, uh, Karen, I am from the United States of America, but I'm stationed in Europe or something. It's just like, kind of broken English. Yeah. Yeah.

Debby (38:05):

So some of them are, are telltales like that, but honestly, they are very good at what they do. Yeah. And it's not as apparent as you think. I mean, I look back and, and I did get that very first thing you can call me Eric Cole, which I remember saying that was an odd way of saying my name is, but because he was from England, he came back and said, well, that's lingua franca. And, you know, that's the way we speak. And so I was like, what is kind of it justifies it, but he was very good. And, and I'm, I'm a real animal person, as far as spelling. And that kind of thing. I am not, his English was excellent. So it's not the Nigerian Prince who can't say right. These are very well-trained and they've got playbooks and they use the same stories. They just changed the characters.

Debby (38:57):

And, uh, because I have women say when I actually wrote a book called the woman behind the smile and I'll have women read it. And they're like, wow, that was my story. But the name was changed or someone, um, interesting. You guys are in, in Texas, there was a big business, email compromise, Roundup of scammers in Dallas and two women that I know, um, their romance scammers got pulled in with that group, which was a little bit good for them. Right. Um, but typically they're not here in the United States, right. Those girls said to me, you know, whatever, in my story, there was a courier and he was bringing money in and they were, you know, we were, we had to pay a lot of, a lot of, I had to pay a lot to get it through customs, but I don't want anybody to hear that story. And I'm thinking, well, that happened to me. And she said, why didn't you talk about that? I'm like, because it happened at the end of the scam and for me, the reveal and all that, the forgiveness that, that trumped the story about this, about the box, but I'm thinking, Oh my gosh, they, they do talk about the same things where they use the same, the same ideas, but because the victims will talk about it. We don't know what they're saying. Right.

Speaker 4 (40:10):

Exactly. No, there's so much shame behind. I mean, they just feel ashamed that, Oh my gosh, somebody pulled this over on me.

Debby (40:18):

You're ashamed because you're, well-trained, you're financially well off. You're just really good hearted men and women, and think that it should never have happened, but it happens to every, every one of us get scammed at some point in our life. Right. Maybe not to the extent that I did, but, you know, if you just scanned out of $250, that's $250 too much. Right. So the sad part is the, our grandparents' age, you know, between 80 and or 75 and 85. Yeah. They're losing their life savings and they don't have a chance to ever get that back. Yeah. They can't. And I had, I I'm talking with a woman now that she's divorced, 15 years has no family brother. Um, and she was 700,000 in the hole and I don't know what to do. I, you know, the IRS is going to come down on me and that's when I have to get my resources together. Cause I'm not, I'm not a therapist. I'm not an attorney. I do have resources out there that I can get this woman in touch with. But the, the shame of it all, she goes, I I'll never find light at the end of this tunnel. Right. And she walked, if she stays home alone, she doesn't talk about it. You

Speaker 4 (41:31):

Know? And the other thing I want to bring it's, uh, it's a little bit different

Roy - AGEUcational - Don’t Get Caught Up in a Romance Scam. Hear One Woman’s Story and Warning (41:34):

Of a scam, but also emails. I just always tell my mom, if you get an email, even if it's a company that you use or your bank, and they want you to log in, never log in through the link that they provide or call them on the phone to say, I got this email, get somebody to walk you through it because you know, these fishing expeditions that they go on. I mean, it's just, uh, you know, I'm bombarded by them every day. I probably get five or 10 every day. My Netflix is going to be frozen. My Amazon account's going to be frozen. You know, Terry got one the other day that said, uh, thanks for your purchase of 500 something, dollar TV or some, you know, it was this huge number that makes you go, wow, I didn't do that. So the first thing you want to do is log in, you know, through their site right there and try to take care of this.

Roy - AGEUcational - Don’t Get Caught Up in a Romance Scam. Hear One Woman’s Story and Warning (42:30):

And so, uh, just another warning. It's like, it's, uh, we're being bombarded and the older, I think the older we get, the more vulnerable we are because we don't really know. And then there's that pressure to hurry. And that's what it always it's, uh, there's always that urgency that we've got to do this. If you don't take advantage of this awesome deal, you gotta do it right. This moment, kind of like the asphalt scammers, you know, they're standing right in front of you saying, you know, this is your last chance you're gonna miss out. Sometimes we just, in order my personal opinion, sometimes we have to miss out on those good deals just to make sure that it, it really was a good deal.

Debby (43:10):

Right? Well, I heard one time and this resonates too, is when your grandmother used to say, just sleep on it. Yes. Put some time that shiny object, if it's really true, it'll be shiny tomorrow. If not, then step away. And my father has gotten five calls from Amazon the last week, about $759. Something that that's why mine was no. I said, Amazon doesn't call you. I've been trying to deal with them with my seller account. I can't get anybody to call me. So not real, but it's tough. My mom gets caught on the Senate all the time. They'll use a local area code and she'll think that somebody nearby is calling. I'm like, don't answer it. If it's someone that needs to talk to you, they'll leave a message.

Roy - AGEUcational - Don’t Get Caught Up in a Romance Scam. Hear One Woman’s Story and Warning (43:54):

Yeah. And that's a good advice too, because these guys have gotten smart and they will, uh, they'll make their phone call from, uh, the same area code or one that's close to where you live. But what, uh, you know, it's like I tell my parents is that just let it go to voicemail. It's not going to hurt no use picking it up because you don't know who it is. If they're not in your, uh, contact list where it comes up, that, Hey, it's, so-and-so calling. Just let it go. It's no urgency. I can answer it right now.

Debby (44:23):

We feel the urgency to answer the phone, you know, on the first thing I wrote, I wrote about it this morning, it's called FOMO, FOMO, fear of missing out.

Terry - AGEUcational (44:33):

That's true.

Debby (44:35):

We want it. We don't want to miss out. And our parents, for instance, they don't want to miss a doctor's office call. Right? I'm like, don't leave a message. You know, you hear them then pick it up.

Terry - AGEUcational (44:47):

Yeah. And there are so many. So now I just wanted to mention the national council on aging had the top 10 scams targeting seniors. So I wanted to just kind of go through a couple of those, throw them out there. Medicare is now listed as number one, counterfeit, prescription drugs, funerals, anti-aging products, telephones, internet investments, mortgages, sweepstakes, and lottery. And the grandparents scam. Now that one, well, all of them are bad, but the grandparents scam where they, somebody will call you and say that they're your grandchild and that they need money for something. They either they've been in an accident and they need money to pay their hospital bills or they got arrested and they need to get out. And don't tell any of, don't tell my parents, you know, they'll say they'll call and say, Oh, Hey, do you know who this is? And then they'll the grandparent will be like, Oh yeah, this is Stacy. You know, hi, how you doing? I'm so glad to hear from you. That's their granddaughter that's

Roy - AGEUcational - Don’t Get Caught Up in a Romance Scam. Hear One Woman’s Story and Warning (45:56):

Well, this, this happened to mom actually. And just so happened. My daughter was sitting right next to her when this person called and said, Hey, I'm, you know, I'm traveling abroad. And uh, you know, we're stuck without money. And she's like, well, I'm sitting right here next to or something. I know. I mean, but again, sometimes it's, it's an accident they're fixing to be in trouble. You know, they try to build that urgency in. And then, uh, the Medicare, the Medicare and the IRS, I think those are a couple of phone calls that I've gotten lately. Uh, you know, this is the IRS. And if you don't re respond to this immediately, then we are. And it's funny because they said, uh, the English w we, we will send the coppers out to, to pick you up or something.

Debby (46:44):

Yeah. The IRS scan actually originated out of India, which makes sense that they would say that. Uh, but it, they, the IRS doesn't call you ever. Right. And, but they, they make it so urgent and it scares people because nobody wants the IRS I'm in. Yeah.

Roy - AGEUcational - Don’t Get Caught Up in a Romance Scam. Hear One Woman’s Story and Warning (47:02):

Or lose your social security benefits. If that's all that you live on, you know, they feel like, well, I can't take a chance that this is true. And so anyway, it's just, there's so much out there. Yeah.

Debby (47:14):

The other thing they'll do is they'll say, go to Walmart and get gift cards or go to Publix and do, you know, Western union. But gift cards is the biggest red flag today, because all you need to do is give them the number on the back and they've got cash and they can run away and never get caught. So anybody asking you for gift cards? Absolutely. No money. Absolutely. No. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Roy - AGEUcational - Don’t Get Caught Up in a Romance Scam. Hear One Woman’s Story and Warning (47:38):

Um, all right, Debbie. Well, Terry, you have anything else? Okay.

Debby (47:41):

I mean, we could go on and on. This is just ever, never ending. Yeah. I want it. So you are, um, a member of society of citizens against romance scams. Is that right? Relationship scams. Yeah. The acronym for scars. For scars. Okay. And it's an international, it's an international nonprofit that works specifically with victims, worldwide of relationship fraud. Okay. And you can, yeah. That is an excellent organization. Um, we've got information for family members on how to do an intervention. We've got every kind of story, uh, of information about the different scams that are out there. We can report it. You can report to any, again, scam.org. We are working with it with the FBI, with department of justice, with Homeland security and with victim, we are doing some support groups on Facebook. And I want people to be careful because a lot of times when you've been scammed, he goes, searching on websites first for scammers. And there are many of them are run by scammers investigative services by scammers. I never would have even thought of that. Yeah, it's unbelievable. They bought a lock on this, on it. So go to a reputable organization. And stars is one of the only if not the only victim associated organization, nonprofit organization in the United States.

Roy - AGEUcational - Don’t Get Caught Up in a Romance Scam. Hear One Woman’s Story and Warning (49:09):

And is that what's their website,

Debby (49:12):

It's romance scams now.com. And you can also my website, which is the woman behind the smile.com. I do have, uh, links over to, to that. And we talk about it all the time, not just my story, but every kind of scam that's out there. And it's important and I'm being interviewed tomorrow, but actually, but a media source that says, well, with all of us talking about it, why are people being taken? The problem is not, all of us are talking about it. That's the key, the victims, the victims, certainly aren't speaking up and we need people to report because the governments won't know how bad this is, unless we talk about it. And a lot of it is embarrassing.

Roy - AGEUcational - Don’t Get Caught Up in a Romance Scam. Hear One Woman’s Story and Warning (49:54):

A lot of the victims too are isolated. And so it's, it's sometimes it's just the attention that they get is what really sparks them. But it's, you know, they're not, unfortunately they're not listening to our shows or reading this material. So they, uh, they just, yeah, it's just, I think it's more everybody talking about it more and keep getting it out there and try to reach in. And it's the conversations that we should have with our loved ones, with our parents, with our kids. I mean, it's, you shouldn't have it with everybody because they're targeting everybody. I mean, this show, we definitely reach out to the aging, but, uh, they're out there looking for anybody.

Debby (50:35):

And the hard part too is, uh, w well, one woman I was working with the other day she's by herself. And if you can imagine the scammer occupied half of her day, right? Well, now she doesn't have that. So how does she fill up that time? And she's anxious and depressed. And she's like, I can't walk. So I can't exercise. And I'm thinking, what can she do? That's positive to change what she was doing before. Right. And it's tough. And, you know, she's writing to me and, and I can't do it all by myself, but I, I am sending her back things. We need that support group. We need friends to listen and really hear what we're saying, because we'll never a victim. I'll never tell somebody she sent money. Right. Is that she might have a friend out there, not this new friend. And he makes me happy thinking thing. Yeah.

Roy - AGEUcational - Don’t Get Caught Up in a Romance Scam. Hear One Woman’s Story and Warning (51:22):

What about the, what about volunteering for do y'all take volunteers. People can sign up to help to talk with other people

Debby (51:31):

We do on scars. Typically our volunteers have been scammed victims themselves because it's a different kind of trauma it's it's cuts. That's why you can't really walk into a police department and explain to them because they don't get it. Yeah. It's not a victimless. It's not a victimless crime, because what happened now is you, you, you have families that are falling apart. You have the person that's falling apart, but to understand how you could be taken like that, uh, it happens when you've had a great loss. It could be a death, it could be a divorce, you know, you had that perfect storm. And, and typically I would not be taken. And if it could happen, I say, if it can happen to me and I was well-trained, it could happen to anybody. Yeah. It's just, it's your heart gets hijacked. And so, yeah,

Roy - AGEUcational - Don’t Get Caught Up in a Romance Scam. Hear One Woman’s Story and Warning (52:24):

You know, that's another thing that these guys will do is they will comb through obituaries looking for in it's it's a little bit more difficult that they're not in a paper, but I guarantee, I know a guy that, uh, used to be in the financial services business, you know, back in the seventies and eighties, that's what he did. He would come the obituaries in the paper every morning, find a woman whose kids lived out of state. And then he would call her and say, Debbie, I'm sorry for your loss. Uh, me and you know, me and Herbert were talking, uh, this last couple of weeks and we were just fixing to sign all these papers to, you know, move your money. Now he wasn't stealing the money, but he was basically running the scam in order to get the accounts where he can manage the money and make, you know, make commissions off of it. But I mean that they will find this information about how they will seek out these vulnerable issues that people have. And, you know, loss is a good one for them to go for. They do

Debby (53:26):

Check that out because after my, my husband died in April and when I filed taxes, the next year, someone else had already filed the tax return on him. And the check had been sent to an address in Fort Lauderdale. So I couldn't file a line after that for a long time, because now my account had been flagged and I'm thinking, well, shoot, you know, that's not right. Yeah. Wow. It's amazing. If there's a way they're going to find it and they're very good at it and they'll exploit it. And if, if they could do for good, what they do for bad, they'd be phenomenal nominal salesman.

Roy - AGEUcational - Don’t Get Caught Up in a Romance Scam. Hear One Woman’s Story and Warning (54:04):

Well, thank you so much. I know we are way over on time, but I appreciate, uh, we appreciate this so much. It's a lot of great information and just, uh, you know, keep up the good work. Tell us one more time. Uh, if somebody wants to reach out and get ahold of your book, uh, tell us how we can do that.

Debby (54:21):

I would go to thewomanbehindthesmile.com. If someone has been a victim, please have them email me. It's Debbie, [email protected]. I do return emails, and I will try to get you the resources and go to romance scams now.com, which is the stars organization, uh, or to report it, go to ic3.gov, which is the FBI site and against scams.org.

Roy - AGEUcational - Don’t Get Caught Up in a Romance Scam. Hear One Woman’s Story and Warning (54:52):

Okay, great. Well, thank you so much. Keep up the good work and let's get as many people, uh, let's get the word out to as many people as we possibly can. We're so glad you're sharing your story. It's a great thing. Yeah. And I'm glad it sounds like you've made a good recovery and hope that you're very happy in your current relationship. So that's good. I guess the, the, you know, the reality is people don't bounce back and I hate to just keep on going, but the people don't bounce back, uh, seniors, uh, you know, sometimes lose their homes and they're homeless and have to go live with a child or, uh, sometimes even on the street. So there's a lot of ramifications that go along with this, but thank you so much. We appreciate it. That's going to do it for another episode of ageucational.

Roy - AGEUcational - Don’t Get Caught Up in a Romance Scam. Hear One Woman’s Story and Warning (55:36):

Of course I am Roy. You can find us at www. ageucational.com, where we are also on all the major social media platforms, as well as all the podcast platforms, iTunes, Google, Stitcher, Spotify. If we're not on one that you use, please let us know. We'll be glad to, um, get that added. Also, if you're a professional in the aging services, targeting caregivers, the aging health, uh, if you have a good story like Debbie does that, we need to get out to others. Please let us know. We'd be glad to try to get you to on one of our future episodes until next time y'all take care of yourself and take care of each other. Thank you. Thanks Debby. Thanks. You guys appreciate it.

www.thewomanbehindthesmile.com
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