Colleges and universities are getting ready for a new year, but like everything else, coronavirus is complicating everything. Some are closing campus and moving online, others plan to bring students back with social distancing. Sam checks in with Tressie McMillan Cottom, associate professor at UNC-Chapel Hill and author of Lower Ed: The Troubling Rise of For-Profit Colleges in the New Economy, about the state of higher education and why not all colleges are created equal when it comes to prioritizing health over business. Then he chats with comedian and Desus and Mero writer Ziwe Fumudoh, whose recent interviews with white celebrities like Alison Roman and Rose McGowan have generated a lot of social media buzz for her frank questions about race. They talk about the art of the interview and her comfort with discomfort.

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