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Judge Dunston is driven by deep principles inspired by her family and her faith.  She is a remarkable steward of our communities through the justice work she has given her life to. Learn more about Judge Ashleigh and her values.

Ministry Incubator founder, among other various glorious titles, Mark DeVries is no stranger to many in youth ministry. He cares deeply for young people and the church. That has carried over into his work with young adults and ministry incubation. 

Learn more about Mark's current work with Ministry Incubators, his book we discuss in the podcast, Sustainable Youth Ministry, and the article I wrote that caused me to jump on this episode with Mark.

Dr. Amy Hinkelman, my Campbell University colleague, joins me to talk about COVID, and its ups and downs. She's not into predicting what COVID will do next, but rather ways that we can be smart and faithful as we care for the most vulnerable, our neighbors and ourselves. She also gives a glimpse into who she is and found her way into this work.  Learn more about Amy and how to reach her at her university bio. 

It is easy to leave one chapter of our life behind and discount it, even apologize for it. It is much harder but far healthier to give thanks for lessons learned and growth, while also recognizing where there was hurt or even toxicity. Aaron talks about these experiences in his own life as well as why his new projects are so personal and life-giving. Lest you think it is all about him, wait until you hear about the retreat he's put together for spiritual leaders wrestling with their own spiritual well-being. 

His two most recent projects we talk about during the episode are A New Liturgy No 9: The Beatitudes, and the upcoming Pastors, Priests, and Guides retreat. For more from Aaron, check out his website.

Rev. Keith Mannes served as a pastor for nearly 30 years until he faced a dilemma - serve a church that supported something he didn't feel matched the Gospel or walk away. “I am to follow the call of my heart to speak into the world as small as my voice may be,” said the 59-year-old lifelong Republican. It was a voice, he said, that was too controversial, too divisive, for this small house of God. He gave his two weeks’ notice and quit East Saugatuck Church.

But the painful decision to walk away isn't the end of his story. He continues to minister as a chaplain and a writer. I cannot encourage you enough to read his article, The Pearl Principle. His joy, sorrow, and hope all are on display in this interview. 

Further down you can find Kenda's official bio, but first a quick word about this podcast. The last two years of the pandemic have loosened some bolts that we thought might not be possible for ministry.  Not only that, it showed us that many of the tools we've been holding on to may not serve us well in their current state. We need to find ways to adapt and prepare using what we have in different ways and finding new things that God is showing us each day. A new world of ministry possibilities awaits us and at least Kenda Creasy Dean and I are excited by the possibilities. I hope you are as well! 


Kenda Creasy Dean, PhD '97, is an ordained United Methodist pastor in the Greater New Jersey Annual Conference, and the Mary D. Synnott Professor of Youth, Church, and Culture at Princeton Theological Seminary. In addition to teaching in practical theology, education, and formation (specifically youth and young adult ministry, Christian social innovation, and theories of teaching), Dean works closely with Princeton’s Institute for Youth Ministry and the Farminary. Dean is the author of numerous books on youth, church, and culture, the best known of which include Almost Christian: What the Faith of Our Teenagers Is Telling the American Church (Oxford, 2010), Practicing Passion: Youth and the Quest for a Passionate Church (Eerdmans, 2004), and The Godbearing Life: The Art of Soul Tending for Youth Ministry with Ron Foster (Upper Room, 1998).

She has directed numerous grants on youth, innovation, and the church, including The Zoe Project(2017-2021), and was co-director with Harold Masback of The Joy and Adolescent Faith and Flourishing Project through Yale’s Center for Faith and Culture. In 2013, she co-founded Ministry Incubators, Inc., an educational and consulting group that supports Christian social innovation and entrepreneurial ministries. A graduate of Wesley Theological Seminary, she served as a pastor in Virginia, Maryland, and New Jersey and as a campus minister in suburban Washington, D.C. before receiving her PhD from Princeton Seminary in 1997.

Ashley joins Brian to discuss her vocational journey from studying to be a minister to off ramping that endeavor only to find herself doing ministry in the beautiful context of photography. As the owner of Story Photographers, Ashley builds relationships in deep and meaningful ways, often leading her to journey and capture the holy moments in the lives of her clients. Along the way, she ended up becoming pastor of a church too. Come join us for this conversation that comes full circle while realizing God still has more in store!

Mark is the author of We Aren’t Broke: Uncovering Hidden Resources for Mission and Ministry. He is also an entrepreneur, pastor, consultant, and speaker. He is co-founder of RootedGood, which seeks to create more good in the world through social innovation; executive director at Pres House on the University of Wisconsin's Madison campus; and owner of Elsdon Strategic Consulting.

Our conversation begins with views of winter weather snowfalls in Wisconsin versus ice storms in NC, but quickly weaves through the many roles Mark plays and how each informs the other. Most importantly weaving through it all is the role that resources, and our understanding of them, can be powerful tools for ministry, even those which we have never dreamed of!    

Learn more about Mark and his work on his website.

It feels like life is moving ever faster. Perhaps it isn't life at all but rather our inability to be present, to define time in sacred terms, not at Silicon Valley speed. Join me for a great conversation with the man who lives rent-free inside my head when I'm reading his works!
For more from and about Andy check out his website and subscribe to his podcast, New Time Religion.

Rev. Andy Hale is a pastor, award-winning podcaster, doctoral student, and dad. He knows a bit about how we connect with one another and how thin the space is between us.  Yet, that thin space seems like a great divide in many relationships. He's got ideas for breaking through so that we can get back to knowing one another as neighbors rather than issues.

Learn more about the award-winning podcast which we are happy to keep calling award-winning because Brian was a guest on that episode. Does that make Brian an award-winning guest?