EPISODE 44

Kevin Henrikson and Jason Shafton sit down with Jason Fried, co-founder of 37signals, to unpack what it means to build software that feels less like “software” and more like a physical object you actually want to use every day. Jason explains the philosophy behind Fizzy, 37signals’ fresh take on Kanban, and why speed, fluidity, and visual joy aren’t polish but core product decisions. The conversation explores designing with human-scale constraints borrowed from the physical world (like piles on a desk), why limits often produce better tools, and how 37signals stays independent to preserve optionality. They also discuss why 40 hours a week is enough, how founders can stay deeply involved without becoming bottlenecks, and Jason’s advice to new founders: keep your surface area small and start making something real as fast as possible.

CHAPTERS

00:00 – Building software as objects you want to use every day

07:04 – Fizzy and a simpler, more joyful take on Kanban

12:21 – Piles, limits, and designing for human scale

22:03 – 40 hours is enough: founder involvement without micromanagement

43:22 – Undercomplicating year one: keep surface area small and start making

LINKS

Connect with Jason Fried

37signals.com • LinkedIn • X/Twitter

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Connect with Kevin

LinkedIn • X/Twitter

Connect with Jason

LinkedIn • X/Twitter