Where Warlocks Stay Up Late

Howard Holton shares an unscripted, deeply personal account of overcoming childhood poverty, abuse, and autism to become a successful technology executive and advocate for mental health awareness. Born in Akron, Ohio in 1976, Holton survived a tumultuous upbringing marked by parental instability, domestic violence, and homelessness. He discovered refuge in books, Dungeons & Dragons, and computers, teaching himself programming at age 11 and eventually becoming a prominent CEO. His journey reveals how intellectual curiosity, resilience, and community support enabled him to defy statistical odds. Holton discusses his early hacking explorations, his role in building wireless mesh networks for law enforcement in Los Angeles, and his evolution from technical innovator to leader focused on human connection. He emphasizes the critical importance of community, vulnerability, and reframing failure as education. Through his DEFCON Mental Health Hackers presentation and ongoing advocacy, Holton demonstrates how sharing authentic stories of struggle and survival can inspire others facing similar challenges to seek help and find belonging within supportive communities.

Chapters:

0:00:00 Cold Open — "Success Pays, Failure Educates"

0:02:43 Origin Story: Akron, 1976, and Hobbit Day

0:04:40 The Cult Deprogrammer, Tombstone, and the Goats

0:10:06 Divorce at Five — "Keith Richards Without the Money"

0:13:34 The Stepfather: Abuse, Alcohol, and Cocaine

0:17:50 "You're Being Childish" — Cutting Off His Mother

0:21:41 The Stepfather's Recovery, and His Suicide

0:24:11 The Custody Rotation and the Converted Greyhound

0:28:50 Escape Through Reading, and Autism Before It Had a Name

0:32:24 April, Woodchuck Trailer Park, and the Babysitter

0:38:24 "Why Are You Not in Jail? Why Are You Not Dead?"

0:40:44 The Law Office and the Aryan Brotherhood

0:47:50 Married at 18, and Learning to Fake Normal

0:58:12 The First Computer, POKE, and Hero of the Classroom

1:05:54 WordPerfect, Pleading Paper, and Plead Perfect at 11

1:10:04 BBSs, a $700 Phone Bill, and Learning to Phreak

1:20:33 Choosing the Defender Side, and the Log That Caught an Insider

1:28:58 The Anarchist Cookbook and the FBI

1:31:50 Michael

1:35:55 "Statistically, I Should Be…"

1:37:32 First Real Job at 19, and Shootin' Newton

1:46:40 Hitachi, and the Perfectionist Partner

1:47:34 Mental Health Hackers at DEF CON

1:53:18 Robert Frost, and the Tattoo on His Arm

1:56:39 Advice: Success Pays, Failure Educates

1:59:44 D&D, Gatekeeping, and the Satanic Panic

2:05:15 Close

Cris Thomas, also known as Space Rogue, was a founding member of the legendary L0pht Heavy Industries — the hacker collective that famously told the U.S. Senate they could take down the internet in 30 minutes. He would go on to found the Hacker News Network, giving the underground a voice and warning the world how vulnerable it was. He told the full story in his award-winning book, Space Rogue.

Chapters

0:00 Intro

0:40 Who is Space Rogue?

2:58 Growing up in rural Maine

4:20 Parents' divorce and its lasting impact

5:44 Building flashlights from trash — early curiosity

7:33 Childhood trauma and turning to computers

11:38 Joining the Army and buying his first Mac

14:47 Discovering BBSs and the modem world

21:10 Origin of the "Space Rogue" handle

23:19 Working as a security guard at Lotus

24:34 Dialing into BBSs from the Lotus overnight shift

32:27 The Works, 2600 meetings, and meeting the crew

36:13 What hacker meetups were actually like

40:28 Working at CompUSA with future L0pht members

42:59 CDC vs L0pht — setting the record straight

46:26 How the L0pht actually formed

53:37 The MIT flea market

57:10 Paranoia about law enforcement and the hacker crackdowns

1:01:54 Finding vulnerabilities and responsible disclosure struggles

1:06:16 L0pht v1 to v2 — moving to Watertown and membership changes

1:13:47 Fondest L0pht memories

1:16:25 Realizing L0pht was famous at Beyond Hope

1:19:02 L0phtCrack, t-shirts, and turning the hobby into a business

1:23:06 The birth of Hacker News Network

1:28:36 Breaking stories and becoming the "Voice of Reason"

1:31:01 Legion of Underground declares cyber war

1:41:59 The Senate testimony — how it came about

1:44:42 Suits, a rented van, and the road trip to DC

1:49:46 Reflecting on the testimony's real impact

1:53:55 "Security is here, it's just unevenly distributed"

1:54:27 The security boom and the road to At Stake

2:00:12 The At Stake deal — "garage band or mega band?"

2:05:24 Getting fired from At Stake — losing his identity

2:13:13 The lost decade — depression and rebuilding

2:15:24 Tan's call that changed everything — HNN goes video

2:22:11 Writing the book — motivation, self-publishing, and healing

2:27:40 Legacy and impact

2:29:42 Closing

Rob Knake's fingerprints are all over modern cyber policy. As White House Director for Cybersecurity Policy, he helped craft the nation’s most significant cybersecurity strategy in nearly two decades and guided the response to major national cyber incidents. He’s advised presidents, shaped global cyber norms, co-authored two influential books on cyber conflict, and served as a senior fellow at Harvard and the Council on Foreign Relations.

Chapters:

00:00 - Intro

03:15 - Growing Up with New Deal Democrats

06:30 - "To Whom Much Is Given, Much Is Required."

10:45 - Choosing Public Service Over Corporate Law

14:20 - Education at Connecticut College

18:30 - Democracy, Capitalism & Fukuyama's End of History

22:10 - Coast Guard Internship & Steve Flynn's Influence

27:45 - Richard Clarke & Early Cyber Policy Work

32:20 - The Emergence of Cyber as a National Security Threat

36:40 - From Good Harbor Consulting to Government Service

40:15 - Working on Counterterrorism at DHS

44:30 - The Bin Laden Raid Era & Shifting to Cyber

48:20 - Joining the Obama White House NSC

52:45 - Life as an NSC Staffer - Long Hours & Mission

56:30 - Stuxnet & Understanding Real-World Cyber Threats

01:00:15 - The Failed 2011 Cybersecurity Legislation

01:04:40 - Executive Order 13636 & The NIST Framework

01:09:20 - Operation Aurora & Chinese IP Theft

01:13:45 - Nudges vs Shoves - Voluntary vs Mandatory Security

01:18:30 - The Need for Cybersecurity Regulation

01:22:50 - Who Should Regulate & How to Regulate

01:27:10 - Software Liability & Outcome-Based Security

01:32:25 - The SolarWinds/Sunburst Attack Explained

01:37:40 - Private Equity's Impact on Cybersecurity

01:41:15 - The Failure of Collective Defense

01:45:30 - Government vs Private Sector Responsibility

01:52:20 - Why Government Can't Take Over Cyber Defense

01:58:45 - The Rise of Ransomware as a Threat

02:03:30 - Should We Ban Ransomware Payments?

02:08:15 - Corporate Hack-Back Operations

02:11:40 - Holding Nation-States Accountable for Ransomware

02:16:25 - Deterrence vs Resilience in Cyber Policy

02:22:10 - Are We Winning in Cybersecurity?

02:26:30 - AI's Impact on Cybersecurity

02:29:45 - Trump Administration & Potential Regulatory Changes

02:33:20 - The Public Sector Pay Gap Problem

02:38:50 - Current Work in the Private Sector

02:42:15 - Bridging the Hacker-Policy Divide

02:45:30 - Closing Thoughts

Mohammed Bagha—who keeps his hacker handles anonymous and goes simply by ‘MB’—was one of the most feared hackers of the 1990s. With a larger-than-life online persona and the skills to back it up, he infiltrated corporate systems, telecom networks, and even the machines of other well-known hackers. He exposed their flaws, mocked their code, and dropped their secrets in public forums. But narrow misses with the law soon changed his path, and like many from that era, he turned his talents to defense—helping global companies strengthen their security and build lasting strategies.

David Jacoby (aka “pewp”) is a pioneering Swedish hacker with over 30 years of influence in cybersecurity and hacker culture. From the early days of BBS systems, war dialing, and underground groups like Hack.se to connections with the Pirate Bay founders and the infamous CIA website hack, his journey shaped how hacking is viewed worldwide. He has been a technical advisor for the Millennium Trilogy (The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo), starred in mainstream TV series like “Hacked”, founded Unreached AB, and now drives innovation as Chief Strategy Officer at Syndis in Iceland. Known for blending technical brilliance with cultural impact, Jacoby’s career reflects the evolution of hacking from underground curiosity to a force that redefined modern cybersecurity.

Before he taught murderers how to play Dungeons & Dragons in Rikers, Jason Snitker, aka Parmaster, was one of the most prolific hackers on the planet. Trading exploits with groups across four continents, slipping into Citibank, and landing in Underground, the book co-written by Julian Assange before vanishing from the Secret Service for over two years.

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Chapters:

00:00 Intro

01:05 Parmaster’s Origin Story

04:40 First Exposure to Computing

08:15 Learning Through Hacking

12:30 Meeting the Jedi Hackers

17:20 Mentorship from Gary Kildall

22:10 Early Hacker Communities

28:00 Hacking Techniques: Pad-to-Pad Exploit

34:45 Citibank Debit Card Breach

41:00 TRW and Killer Satellite Programs

47:25 Chaos, Soviets, and Hacker Wars

53:15 Life on the Run

01:01:00 Near Misses with the Secret Service

01:09:30 Arrest in New York

01:15:20 The Tombs and Rikers Island

01:21:45 Trial and Technicality

01:27:50 Transition to Cybersecurity Career

01:33:30 Reflections on Legacy

01:36:10 Closing

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From being the first to infiltrate hacking groups to going undercover in an Al Qaeda cell, Terry Rankhorn’s career shaped some of the FBI’s most critical moments in modern history. As a Supervisory Special Agent, he led covert entry teams across cyber, physical, and electronic access on some of the government’s most classified missions.

In this episode, part 2 of a two-part episode, Terry discusses the complexities of navigating the hacker community and the impact of undercover operations on trust within that community. This conversation delves into the experiences of an undercover agent who transitioned from investigating cybercrime to infiltrating Al-Qaeda operations. Terry also discusses the challenges and psychological aspects of undercover work, the importance of mentorship, and the evolution of cybercrime from curiosity-driven hacking to organized scams.

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Chapters:

00:00 The Evolution of Cybercrime and Undercover Operations

03:13 Navigating the FBI: From Training to Field Assignments

06:03 The Landscape of Domestic Terrorism in the 90s

08:53 Transitioning to Cybercrime: The Rise of Computer Intrusions

12:08 Building a Career in Cybercrime Investigations

15:01 The Undercover Experience: Infiltrating Hacker Groups

17:52 The Challenges of Attribution in Cybercrime

21:12 The First Major Cybercrime Case: A Learning Experience

23:50 The MagicFX Case: Legal Precedents in Cybercrime

27:13 The Aftermath of Undercover Operations: Trust Issues in the Hacker Community

01:03:59 The Prolific Hacker and His Malicious Streak

01:05:36 Transitioning to Al-Qaeda Investigations

01:07:11 Undercover Operations: Peeling the Onion

01:09:00 The Stress of Undercover Work

01:11:18 Building Trust in Dangerous Environments

01:12:29 Psychological Profiles and Undercover Success

01:14:07 Mentorship and Learning the Art of Undercover

01:16:33 The Complexity of Undercover Operations

01:18:27 Conversion to Islam: A Strategic Move

01:20:10 The Beauty and Perversion of Religion

01:22:30 The Impact of the Al-Qaeda Operation

01:23:06 Post-Al-Qaeda Operations and Safety Moves

01:25:02 The Tactical Operations Center

01:29:39 Training for Modern Undercover Operations

01:32:22 Operational Amnesia in the FBI

01:35:08 The Black Bag Program: Breaking In

01:39:09 Prioritizing Major Cases

01:42:29 The Thrill of Covert Operations

01:43:11 Transitioning to Supervisory Roles

01:49:12 Leaving the Bureau: A Personal Decision

01:50:46 Consulting and New Ventures

01:53:04 Virtual Safe House: A Community Initiative

01:56:44 The Evolution of Cybercrime

01:58:11 The Motivation Behind Sharing Experiences

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From being the first to infiltrate hacking groups to going undercover in an Al Qaeda cell, Terry Rankhorn’s career shaped some of the FBI’s most critical moments in modern history. As a Supervisory Special Agent, he led covert entry teams across cyber, physical, and electronic access on some of the government’s most classified missions.

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Chapters:

00:00:00 Intro, Undercover Ops & High-Stakes Hacking

00:06:00 From Rural Tennessee to FBI Legend

00:12:00 Tales from a Misfit Childhood

00:18:00 Mischief, Pranks, and Ethical Awakening

00:24:00 Why He Chose the Navy

00:30:00 Boot Camp Culture Shock & Mental Reset

00:36:00 Submarine School and Life Underwater

00:42:00 USS Honolulu: Elite Culture & Leadership

00:48:00 Commander's Intent & Periscope Pride

00:54:00 Deployments, Sacrifices & Camaraderie

01:00:00 Transition to Civilian Life & Reverse Engineering

01:06:00 Rediscovering the FBI Dream

01:12:00 FBI Application, Testing & Getting In

01:18:00 New Agent Training: Pain, Tests & Brotherhood

01:24:00 Injuries, Graduation & Swearing In

01:30:00 Meeting Amanda & Shared Military Background

01:36:00 Military Veterans in the FBI Today

01:42:00 Quantico's Legacy & FBI Academy History

01:48:00 Culture Clash in Training Styles

01:54:00 Reflections on Achievement & Fulfillment

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The History of Cybersecurity Told by Those Who Hacked It

Skyper, aka Eduart Steiner (not his real name), was the editor of Phrack Magazine between 2001 - 2006 (#57-#63), is a member of TESO and THC, and runs Segfault.net: free disposable root shells to fellow ‘activists.

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Chapters

00:00 Cold Open

2:42 A Cold War Household

10:45 No Toy Survives Curiosity

14:57 A Whole New World

20:18 One Box, Two Box, Red Box, Blue Box

29:38 Point of View

37:13 EFnet-ville

42:01 TESO

45:54 The OpenSSH Exploit

53:16 Criminals vs Criminals

56:21 Hacker Consortium

01:00:36 Script Kiddie Wars

01:03:55 THC & Phrack

01:08:51 Cannibalism

01:11:54 Scanning the Internet

01:15:54 From Nothing to Something

01:18:47 Cracking A/51

01:22:33 Detained at Heathrow Airport

01:28:17 IT Security, Revisited

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Where Warlocks Stay Up Late is an interview series dedicated to documenting the history of cybersecurity. Inspired by the seminal book “Where Wizards Stay Up Late: The Origins of the Internet”, this interview series aims to capture the stories, insights, and legacies of the pioneering figures who shaped the field of cybersecurity from its inception to the present day.

#hacking #cybersecurity

The History of Cybersecurity Told by Those Who Hacked It

Kingpin, aka Joe Grand, was the youngest member of the world's most well-known benevolent hacker group (L0pht Heavy Industries) who testified before the United States Congress, changed the hardware hacking landscape, brought electronics to #badgelife, and achieved mainstream popularity on national television.

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Chapters

0:00 Intro

02:41 Kingpin's Origin Story

10:30 George Happy W. Bush

15:57 Spring Break Woes at Dr. Death's

26:25 Turning the Corner...

31:43 L0pht Heavy Industries

46:58 L0pht Version 2

59:43 The United States Senate Testimony

01:15:25 atstake and Corporate America

01:24:38 Grand Idea Studio

01:28:22 Training and Evangelism

01:34:26 DefCon Badges

01:39:52 Prototype This!

01:46:12 Trezor Wallet Hacking

01:52:28 Cold Wallet

01:56:40 Neurodiversity and Mental Health

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Where Warlocks Stay Up Late is an interview series dedicated to documenting the history of cybersecurity. Inspired by the seminal book “Where Wizards Stay Up Late: The Origins of the Internet”, this interview series aims to capture the stories, insights, and legacies of the pioneering figures who shaped the field of cybersecurity from its inception to the present day.

#hacking #cybersecurity