In Part 2, Dr. Katelyn Alexander, Director of Experiential Education at ETSU Bill Gatton College of Pharmacy in Johnson City, Tennessee, goes deep into the context and purpose of experiential education and offers insights and perspective from the preceptor’s point of view.
Welcome to White Coat Radio, a podcast from East Tennessee State University, Bill Gatton College of Pharmacy in Johnson City, Tennessee. Each episode we cover a wide range of topics about the pharmacy school experience, from study tips to deep dives with faculty and student pharmacists. I'm your host, doctor Michelle Williams. In part two of this two part episode, we'll be talking about experiential education with Doctor Katelyn Alexander, associate professor of pharmacy practice and currently serving as Director of Experiential Education.
If you missed our last episode, we covered the basics of experiential education and clinical rotations. So if you're new to pharmacy school, you really want to check that out. So welcome back to White Coat Radio.
Doctor Alexander, I'm excited for this one.
So in this segment we're going to take a deeper dive into experiential education at Gatton. And I'm excited about this episode because there's so much to learn. And I recently found out in our last episode that, experiential education is responsible for one third of the pharmacy school curriculum, and that's amazing.
Yeah, there's been all sorts of cool things about experiential at that. I've learned since moving into this office and, and that the relationship between experiential education and students like career planning, between, the kind of career exploration, there's just a lot of things that relate. So, yeah, it's a it's, it's a complex and complex office with a lot going on.
Yes, definitely. And, so, so I'm so glad that we're we're doing a deeper dive into experiential education with this episode. And, so, so I have some, some more specific questions. So. Yeah. So let's say I'm a student pharmacist and I'm getting ready for my first immersive rotation. That would be an eye eye PPE and introductory.
Yep. Pharmacy practice experience. Yep. When we're where I'll be at the practice site all day for several days in a row, it's my understanding it's an immersive rotation.
Yeah. So most of the time students will spend between 8 and 12 hour per day. Usually, subsequent days over the course of about two weeks. So our blocks are two weeks. But, you know, sometimes the the length of time can vary minimum of 80 hours for those initial rotations.
Okay. And so, so I know that this learning experience is going to be different from sitting in a classroom listening to a professor, you know, engaging in the classroom setting. So, so what can I do to shift into that experiential mindset? Because it's it's been my experience as someone who who works with students on developing, learning strategies and becoming more aware of their thinking processes and their learning processes, that that sometimes when there is that shift to an experiential setting, students take with them that classroom mindset of, you know, I'm used to being in the classroom.
I'm really good at listening to lectures and or participating in small groups. So so what can students do to get into a more experiential mindset?
So I think that is true. It's a it's a much different type of, delivery of information. It's a much different type of assessment of what students know. So I think the first thing is, for the IPS, we specifically provide a workbook to help kind of guide students to give them a little bit of that academic structure.
Rotations in your fourth year or AP rotations do not have that same rotation or workbooks that goes with the rotation, but for IB is to kind of bridge them from the classroom to the practice environment. We provide this workbook to help kind of get them thinking and asking the right questions. So, you know, we usually tell students to kind of look that over to look over information about the rotation just so they sort of know what they may be participating in.
But the biggest thing I think that's different about experiential coursework versus didactic coursework is you also get to be somewhat in charge of your learning. So students have to be reflective about, okay, what am I comfortable doing or what have I had experience with? What am I maybe nervous about that I would like to learn more about?
Or what do I what haven't I seen? What don't I understand that I feel like I really need to gain confidence in. So you can approach rotations from lots of different ways. You can seek out opportunities to practice things that you are comfortable with, but want to gain more exposure to. You can use it to fill in gaps of things that you're not comfortable with.
Preceptors can can accommodate lots of different requests, but you have to tell them what it is that you're hoping to gain out of the experience. So it also takes a little bit of introspection to figure out, well, what do I want to get out of the experience and how will I go about doing that potentially.
So you have to be a little bit more active in understanding what your goals and what your needs are, as opposed to in a classroom where the faculty, the professor, is going to have a sense of what your needs are as a learner, you're you're a little bit more behind the wheel in an experiential setting. It sounds like where you're you need to have thought about those things ahead of time and, and verbalize those to if there's something that that you're wanting from the experience.
Absolutely. Because people can adjust it versus the classroom. You know, I have to make it fit every learner in the room because everybody is receiving the same delivery of that lecture content, but with a rotation, most of these placements, you're 1 to 1 with your preceptor. Maybe there's two students to one preceptor. So the ratios are much smaller, which means even though the preceptor is still doing their full time job, being a pharmacist in whatever setting you're in, there can still create learning opportunities for you.
And it also helps them know, okay, where am I going to have to really provide a lot of guidance to a student on. Or where am I going to have to maybe identify some additional learning opportunities versus if they're comfortable and confident, I can maybe watch them a few times, can model, but then I can really give them autonomy very quickly because they're comfortable with that.
And then I can kind of let them go and fly, because I think an experiential where students learn the best is when they just get to do things autonomously, when they get to do it on their own. So having a having a preceptor be aware of what you think your strengths and weaknesses are, things you want to work on really helps them model that rotation.
And every site's going to be different. I mean, certain sites maybe have different opportunities available. So for example, if you recognize that maybe you're not that comfortable giving immunizations, some sites are going to be and depending on the time of year, some sites will have lots of vaccines that they give and some sites that may not be as much of a part of what they do or maybe just wouldn't be available.
So they can try to prioritize it based on what they know you want to work on to to an extent. And, and that's where we come into play. We usually will help coach students, as well with their rankings. If I know that you have this kind of goal, I can help you pre identify the sites where you're most likely to achieve that.
Oh, okay. So we even go about it before you even step out on to rotation. Our office, when we help students plan their schedule or rank their preferences, we provide some coaching about the types of sites that will accomplish the goals that they have.
So students really need to be thinking about what they want and what what their needs are, even before the first day of rotation.
Yeah. So the earlier you can kind of start doing that all along, I think. I think that helps out a lot.
Okay. So it sounds like, like being a very active and sort of engaged student when you're on rotation is is really beneficial. Yeah. What if I'm a little more, on the, on the introverted or reserved side of things? I'm not super comfortable, you know, being really chatty or. I feel a little intimidated. What what would you suggest that a student could do to to have a good experience, even though they're not, very, very extroverted.
Yeah. Or comfortable. So we probably get a lot of questions from students to that first rotation that they go out on. That might be the most time they've ever spent in a pharmacy. And so they're very nervous about I don't really know how things run. I don't want to I don't want to get in the way. Yeah. So the first thing is rotation.
Just because you have a preceptor or an instructor doesn't mean that's the only person you're going to work with. Okay. So look for lots of people who can help you, technicians who are, sort of support staff in the pharmacy. Other students, they may be, more able to assist. You are more, more approachable, but they may just have more flexibility with time, because of their responsibilities.
So don't always assume that just your preceptor can help you. I think there's lots of different people you can learn from on rotations. I think students sometimes feel like there's an expectation that they know how to use the computer system right away, or that they know very quickly how to jump into the workflow. And we just tell them we're we're not looking for perfection.
I just want you to try, and maybe do things that you are comfortable with. So you may not know how to put how to answer the call, but if the phone's ringing, listen a couple times to figure out how people answer the phone. You can answer in the next call and maybe talk to the tech ahead to figure out how you put them on hold after the fact.
But, you know, just kind of jumping in honestly will help you feel more comfortable because, because it gains confidence. And the thing that sometimes I think hold students back who are worried about messing up is that they never get the practice. They never dip their toe in enough to to feel confident about anything. So you have to be a little uncomfortable to grow.
And this is the perfect time because we're just looking for you to show progress.
So take a little bit of a risk.
You take you take some little risks. And if and if you're not sure and want some guidance still about what risks to take. Find a friendly technician and maybe say, how can I help? And they will be happy to tell you a million ways, whether it's helping them pull, restock bottles, maybe it's helping them answer the phone, maybe it's helping with check out like they will find little ways to get you, incorporate into the workflow.
And they're happy to answer questions. There are no dumb questions when you're on rotation.
That's good to know. And and I from from what you're saying, it's it's a good idea to, to take a risk because then once you realize you can do it, that confidence builds on itself and and you get better and better.
Yeah. And sometimes students, I think, worry about, well, what's what's my role as a student versus, oh, I shouldn't do that because that's a I don't want to step on someone else's toes. Or maybe that that role is not beneath me, but it's it's meant for a different type of staff member. And I would say like, everybody kind of jumps in and does everything and most pharmacy setting.
So it's okay. However you start to just just start. That's the biggest thing. Like we all have to be willing to take out the trash. So most pharmacists will tell you at the end of the day, you know, if, if, if the phone is ringing or something needs done, they have to know every aspect of what happens in their work setting.
So, so by a student jumping in, there's no wrong place to get started.
Great. And, so, so it sounds like that, that kind of taking action and, and getting engaged and stepping outside of your comfort zone, those are things that are that are expected and and are good to do. And, and can you talk a little bit about some of the other expectations that, that are different from a classroom expectation?
Sometimes it's difficult to, to bridge that gap. So when you're in a new environment, it can be difficult to know, what are they expecting of me? Like you said, am I in the way? I don't want to be in the way. I don't want to be an impediment to them getting their work done. So. So how do you, find out what those expectations are?
So on for a good rotation? All of that happens on day one or happens ahead of the start. So we'll coach students to reach out to their preceptors roughly two weeks before the start of the rotation via email, they usually ask a couple of questions. You know, where do I show up? What do I wear? What time do you want me there?
All those things? Do I pack a lunch? And then on the first day, most preceptors, unless something goes catastrophically wrong and they have to adjust, they'll do a quick orientation with the student of here's, here's maybe where we'll have you start different kind of get you oriented to the workflow, get you introduced to people. And that just kind of shows you, I think, where you might be involved, but rotations, IB rotations specifically their pass fail.
So the elements of the grade for the rotation are a guided by the workbook. So they're things that because of where you are in the curriculum, we know you can do and we can apply and this real world setting. And then the other part is just do you show up? Do you act like a professional. So I think as long as you're making an attempt to be involved, as long as you're, you know, putting your best foot forward and really trying to be engaged and and staying, participating in the elements of, what's going on around you?
That's that's really what we're looking for in a past. The things that sometimes students, I think, misinterpret. It's not a good it's you're not really doing what you're supposed to do if you're simply just hanging out, standing against the back wall, letting things fly by.
Okay, you're not just there to observe. You're there to participate because you're not going to learn as much as you can if you're simply watching. You really learn by doing so, you have.
Yeah, okay. And you can do things that you feel comfortable with. So throughout the first year curriculum, we will prepare you through lab and through several courses. There will be skills that you learn that you can use communication skills with patients. You'll have a lot of the foundational things that you can start using when you go out.
So you have to be responsible for the knowledge that you have received, and you have to be willing to provide that. But as far as things that are unique to the site, maybe the computer system or specifics with the workflow, there's no way we can teach every every student, every individual pharmacy or health systems way of doing things.
Yeah. So there are some on the job that you'll have to kind of pick up on. And there's a learning curve there, but we're not expecting you to be an expert after two weeks, especially if this is your first time working in that setting a pharmacy.
But you have to be willing to just do it's not just observational, okay? And then you have to really, I think still be able to dig back within what you've learned in the curriculum and be able to apply it. So an example of that might be, let's say a patient comes up to the counter seeking a recommendation for an over-the-counter product.
Maybe they have seasonal allergies or cold or something. You've had that in the curriculum as a P1. So when the pharmacist says, hey, would you mind counseling them on this. And I histamine that they picked up or this allergy medicine that they picked up. Yeah. You know that you can do that. Yep. You're up and, and probably the first time I mean most preceptors, they'll kind of feel the student out to to figure out what you're comfortable with.
Like we talked about previously, you know, you have to also be aware of what you're good at and what you're not comfortable with. Right. But generally, you know, after maybe observing one, the preceptor watching you, for one, you know, then they'll sort of turn you loose when they feel like you're ready. So, you know, the expectation is that you do are responsible for what, you know, however, from there, it's really just are you kind of participating?
That's really the expectation.
Okay. And, let's say that that I get the sense that, I don't have a good communication with the preceptor, because people are people, and human beings don't always have a great fit with each other. Yeah. What are some things that, if I'm a student pharmacist, that I can do to to work on that communication because you you're you may encounter that at the point where, where, you wish the communication were better with the preceptor.
Yeah. And that that can be for lots of different reasons. Like you said, it can be a mismatch between kind of people's personalities. Sometimes preceptors have personal things going on. Pharmacies are really busy places, and so it can be easy to get lost. The one thing that sometimes I notice where students can sometimes fall into a can, they can they can, I want to say it, they can create communication barriers for themselves is by picking the wrong time.
So you may have to kind of step back and think, okay, if I'm asked, do I have to ask my preceptor this question? Like, maybe it's a question about the computer function or, where do I find this thing? Do I have to ask my preceptor and then be, if it's a question about like, philosophical things, tell me about how did you get to this career?
What do you really like about this type of pharmacy is right now the best time to ask them that question. So sometimes students won't have the awareness of this is a super busy time and I'm peppering my pharmacist with questions. Maybe I need to wait until there's a little more of a lull, because preceptors love having those conversations with students, of course.
But sometimes communication breakdown happens just because the timing is off. And, and sometimes preceptors because they're, they're taking you on in addition to their, their full time job. You know, they may not be able to be the only person you go to with every question. So that's where getting comfortable with the rest of the staff is really important.
Because if you're on a rotation with me and you have a question about something related to the operations of our office, I may not be the best person to tell you. It's probably one of my staff members. So, so using the rest of the team essentially can can be helpful. But if those things aren't really what's at the crux of the problem?
I mean, openness is the best kind of communication. And sometimes you may have to pull your preceptor aside an opportune time and and sort of say, I feel like we're not on the same page. Can you clarify this? And you may have to kind of work through whatever that communication is. Just so you have some clarity, or if that really isn't working, either, you can always reach out to our office and we'd be happy to work with you.
But most of the time, I think it's just a matter of, you know, who are you asking? Are you asking the right person the right question? And then also, timing.
So it's it's probably a good idea if you get a little bit of a short response from the pharmacist to think back on, when was I asking this question? And and maybe it wasn't the question or it wasn't me. It was that I should have picked a better time to ask the question. And and then was there someone else that I could have asked?
Pharmacists or people. Right. And they get busy and just like everybody else, if you if you ask the person when they're really busy and distracted by some important task that they're doing, you may not get.
You're not going to get their full attention and you might not get the type of response you want. And students, I think it is a big shift. If you're in a classroom and you have a question, you're the only person you turn to is the instructors, the faculty member. And since the preceptor is the faculty or instructor or equivalent of the rotation, a lot of students feel like, well, I should only be asking that person.
But we even tell students, you may not even exclusively be working with that person. They may work a schedule that's different to yours. So you might work with other pharmacists at the company. You'll definitely work with other staff members. And that's a good thing, because in the real world, you're going to be working with all those people to like, you need to kind of to, you know, get comfortable with lots of different folks.
So, so the whole environment and all the people in that environment are part of that learning.
It's not just a 1 to 1 with that preceptor.
Yeah. You're not you're not like side by side with them across the entirety of the experience. You're not glued to their side. You you definitely kind of float around with everybody working in that, that team.
And they can still, if a student is having, a challenge and they need a little bit of advice on isolating it, they can they can contact you. Yeah. They could contact me, actually, if they wanted to talk about just straight up communication skills, not the clinical piece.
The communications. One other thing that I would suggest if, if someone is having, if they're a little more on the reserve side, a little more introverted and, and you're, you're trying to break through a kind of communication barrier or something that I think can be helpful. It's also helpful if you have if you're more extroverted, too, but especially if you have a little more introversion is to write down what you're going to say.
If if things didn't go well to kind of process it, once you're out of the fray, once you're home and think about what how you'd like to articulate, you know, the express yourself and and make a connection with that preceptors, there's nothing wrong with writing it down and sort of thinking about what you're going to say first. Don't don't read it to the preceptor.
But but that act of writing, it helps you to kind of articulate what it is you, the point you want to make and get the information across, especially if something a little, less than optimal happened in the communication. That can really be helpful.
And and the other thing that I think is so important about experiential ed is that it's, it's in those, those tough situations or tougher situations that we learn the most.
Oh yeah. Working with other people. Working through communication, misunderstandings and things like that. That's you don't learn how to deal with misunderstandings unless you have a misunderstanding.
Yeah. And and our office is happy to coach you. But a lot of times we do tell students, okay, take our advice. And now you have to go do it for exactly that reason. Because this is a perfect learning opportunity to to build a skill set that, that a lot of students don't have. And that's really important for your future job.
So, yeah, absolutely. And, both Jolina and I's Angelina, is the assistant director for experiential ed. Her background is in, career counseling, so she actually has a lot of good insight, too, about just how to how to talk with other people in the workplace, as well as kind of giving advice for placements as it relates to, like, ultimate career goals.
Yeah. And we're we're happy to help navigate that and we'll, we'll intervene with preceptors if we have to. But most of the time it's usually just, a timing issue or difference of expectations. I think sometimes too is like the real problem. But yeah, we're happy to help students navigate that.
So you mentioned, sort of career readiness. Yeah. Some of these skills that you're learning are really not just the the clinical skills that you're learning, but also the communication skills, the interpersonal skills workplace skills, those are all things that are happening while you're on rotation. And they really start from the very first IPA. Yeah. So can you talk a little bit more about that?
The the relationship of that, that, IPA and AP experience to the larger kind of career plan that.
Yeah. So IPA is because they're introductory, they're more just kind of exploration. But a lot of students, what we have found with IPA is, is it's a good opportunity to find, paid employment. So students will go, let's say, to maybe a retail chain, they're really impressed. And that preceptor has a network of folks above them. And they might say, well, we're we know a store close by is looking to hire an intern.
And it's amazing how quickly then that student usually is called up of, hey, I heard from your preceptor, or they're encouraged by the preceptor to apply because they're just did a really great job. So that's usually one kind of career route. A lot of students, find that their IP rotations will influence their AP rotations. So maybe they go to on their clinical IP after their second year.
Maybe they go with a at an ambulatory care site. So outpatient, outpatient clinic where a pharmacist is working alongside physicians and nurse practitioners. And I don't know how many times we hear, man, I definitely want that rotation. Maybe we even have that same preceptor. On my app is. And on the flip side, sometimes students will say, I know that's not the career for me.
And I, I'm going to change my rotation selections to kind of go in a different direction. So that I think definitely helps kind of guide APS in general. A lot of students will come in, well, both ways, since they're come in still not knowing exactly what they want to do post-graduation. Or sometimes students come in with a very clear idea of what they want to do, and we provide coaching to all students about selection, both on IPS and APS.
But, a lot of times we hear back from students, particularly in the fourth year and every I don't know how many students I've heard say, every month. Oh, this was my favorite. Oh, no, this one was my favorite. So it's really fun to see how the rotation experiences change their career path. And open their minds to different opportunities.
And, and ultimately result in job. So on the fourth year there you're there for four weeks and four weeks is an awfully long interview. So I don't know that students always appreciate that the rotations really can set them up for future job opportunities simply because, you know, if ever there's a position opening, a lot of times pharmacies will go back and hospitals will go back and say, well, who did we have on our rotation?
Oh yeah, I love that person. Let's see if I wonder if they're still around here. I wonder if they're available. They also, employers will reach out to our office, sometimes to inquire about students that they've had. Or just if we know anybody who is job searching. So it's said a lot. The field of pharmacy is really small, but it's really true.
If you have a good experience, whether it's an IPA, two week rotation or an AP four week rotation, that really can create a lot of opportunity for you. Just because people really value and recognize good work and a good fit with the rest of the team at a site. So, yeah, there's a lot of things that grow out of a lot of opportunities that grow out of rotations that students may not always think about.
I was kind of wondering that to our students, where you use the word interview when you were talking about rotations. And so it sounds a bit like a rotation is like an extended interview in some cases, because your specialty, if you're interested in and working in that particular area.
Yeah. Because, because it, it if you're exposed as a preceptor, if I'm exposed to a student and I get to watch firsthand what they do, you know.
Work, the quality of their work, their, their behavior, their, yeah, their, you know, their attitudes, all of that, their knowledge. I can't help but apply that to a future interview. And, you know, interviews are pretty brief. So if you have that rapport with somebody because of that placement, yeah, it can definitely change the way you're perceived.
In an during an interview process, really.
Gets your foot in the door. It sounds like.
Yeah, for both jobs and for residency. So we'll coach students, you know, if you're interested in, residency placements as well, consider doing a rotation. I don't know that I would do all my rotations at a single site, but consider maybe at least one month because you know that that will make an impression. And that will get back to, the, the director of the program at that site.
So it's a really great way of and it's a good way for the student to kind of feel out, both from a, in a residency seeking process and a job seeking process. Is this a good fit for me? Yeah. So I think it it definitely works. Both ways, but yeah, it's, it's an important element and similarly, a good work.
The news travels fast, but, you know, bad news travels fast as well. So sometimes what we'll hear from preceptors is, maybe the student is interested and has a clear direction for career goals. So again, on our our fourth year, there's four core rotations that every student has to take. They cover a lot of variety of practice settings.
So let's say you're going to you really want to work in a community pharmacy, but, you're on rotation in a hospital or more clinical environment up on the floor. And preceptor could really tell that you weren't that interested or you didn't give very good effort. Well, I don't know how many times we've heard that, you know, that preceptor and that employer, through various channels probably know each other or know someone else.
And so sometimes we're we've heard, well, a student maybe didn't get an opportunity because, you know, they kind of melded in on an experience. So their.
Kind of showed. Yeah. So you can never take for granted that even rotations that maybe aren't what you really want to do, still can make a big impression because you're how you represent yourself is, is your identity. And that will travel with you whether you intend for it to or not. So yeah. So it's really we always coach students like you have to be interested.
You have to be dedicated and be enthusiastic whether it's what you want to do or not.
That makes sense. And I think it's it's a really good thing to know ahead of time to realize, that that those skills that you're, that you're learning and that you're employing, they're being noticed, they're worthwhile to develop. You want the preceptor to see you developing those skills. And it sounds like the, the expectation is not that you've got everything all sorted out and, and that you do things perfectly, but that you're, that you're engaged and you're really working to, to do your best and, and to improve areas that you might be weekend.
Yeah. In particular in the AVP. So in your advanced pharmacy practice experience, the the ante is up a little bit. The stakes are a little higher because you've been through the whole curriculum. There is a little bit more, of an expectation that you can apply the knowledge and you may not get the, the preceptors question, or you may not get the answer to every patient scenario.
Right. Every time. But if you have a learning opportunity and rotation, the other expectation is that you learn from it and you can take that and apply it moving forward. So you're really responsible for building on that knowledge and you want to see a progression. So everybody's going to have different starting points. And your starting point is going to look very different when you first start on rotations.
In the summer of your P4 year versus the spring of your P4 year, when you're months away from getting licensed. So preceptors expectations kind of have to shift because of the amount of experiences that you've had. But I think as long as you're showing growth and as, as long as your, applying knowledge that are things that you've learned and kind of consistently then can apply them over time, that's going to make you successful.
We had a faculty member one time laugh that a student was upset that they didn't get an A for A rotation. Students. I showed up on time, I dress professionally, I communicated well, and the preceptor said, yeah, that's the expectation at baseline. That's the foundation. I need you to kind of continue moving. Because kind of like we talked in the past, sometimes you have to be a little uncomfortable in order to grow.
If if I'm just if I'm meeting where you where you are and you're constantly comfortable, then I didn't really do my job because I didn't get you to do something. I didn't push you. So preceptors are not going to. They're not going to have things that are completely un, unreasonable as far as expectations. Yeah, but they are going to try to get you to move forward so that you can grow.
Yeah. Because that's the whole point of that fourth year, and.
It's all in service of, helping someone to become a really good pharmacist.
Which which we all want to have happen.
Right. We want you to be successful in your career. We want you to be successfully licensed. We want you to take care of our patients, too. I mean, we're going to share patients across the the continuum. And so, yeah, it's all out of a place of I, just looking out for you. And that's sometimes tricky for students, too.
I think the feedback that you get on rotations is a little different than how it's delivered in the classroom. So sometimes students really struggle feeling like it's, either personal or feeling like they can't do anything. Right. And that's not that's not the goal of it at all. The goal is, again, kind of making you aware, if you aren't already, what you're good at and what you are and where to focus attention and, and how to kind of continue to grow and move forward.
So maybe that's where you have to study a little bit more. Maybe that's where you need to find out where you can get more practice. But, you're going to get a lot more feedback and it's all going to be verbal versus in the classroom. The ways we assess your knowledge is much different.
Yeah, that's a good point. And it I think it's probably a little a little more challenging to get verbal feedback about your performance versus getting this sort of grade that pops up on your, on your computer that you can look at. But to have a interaction with somebody where they're telling you something, I think that's and that's actually much more like the real world.
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
So yeah. All of this is, is, I think, so important for students to understand because, some of it is not, not necessarily written in a manual or workbook.
But they're things that are really important to know about the, about experiential education, what the expectations are and how they're different from, from being in the classroom. Are there any other things that, that you can think of or sort of parting words about, experiential education that.
Yeah. So we, I mean, this isn't the only time students will hear about experiential ed. So we orient everybody, to the courses in the fall. We do lots of orientations when they get to provide their rankings. We're actually going to start meeting with every single student to kind of coach them through their ranking process. We do a very extensive onboarding.
So there's a lot of touch points that students will hear information.
So the ranking process is where they prioritize their first choice, second choice, etcetera. For the rotations. That's what you mean right okay.
And they can also prioritize time when they don't want to be on rotation. So like if a student is going on a vacation that they know about, if they're getting married, they can also tell us and priority or through their other rankings, they can kind of avoid certain timing and we'll look at that. But yeah, students, and a lot of students don't really know, you know, what they, what they want to do or what the difference is.
And some of the placements are. So that's why we meet with them to really talk through. Okay, here's the read between the lines. Because similarly, just seeing a preceptor name who you don't know, a store that you're not aware of, the differences between the Walgreens on the corner of State of Franklin, that's just around the corner, and West Town Pharmacy, they couldn't be any different.
And they're a stone's throw away from each other. So, and that's really where our office can kind of help students decide. There's just so many cool opportunities. And I think, experiential ed is a really place where students can do some exploration. So we have rotations. I think I mentioned maybe in the past episode, we have different zones for rotations so students can complete rotations out of our area, or they can elect to do everything within kind of 90 miles of the college.
We do have some rotations that students can apply for. So we have rotations with the Tennessee Pharmacists Association. We partner with the FDA, the CDC, with multiple professional associations at the national level like Pharmacy Quality Alliance, the American Pharmacists Association, various other different associations that students can do rotations there.
We have rotations, across the country so students can request to do rotations with the Indian Health Service. And we have sites in partnership with the IHS, all the way from Juneau, Alaska to, sites in New Mexico and Arizona, and then close by here and Cherokee, North Carolina, just serving different tribes and different populations of, of Native Americans.
And that stuff that, you know, you may never those types of experiences are things that you might never get to do in your future career. We have rotations. Nuclear pharmacy is where you get to see, radioactive materials. You can do a rotation with the veterinary pharmacy to figure out, how they prepare meds for animals.
We have opportunities with research. I mentioned academia. I think the last, episode, you can do management at a hospital or, a retail pharmacy setting. In a pet pharmacy ownership, like, the possibilities are just endless. And that's what's so cool of helping students figure out there's a lot of different ways that they can prepare themselves for a future career.
And it's fun to be able to help. Help coach them, to figure out how to make that work. And, you know, there's always some, some quirky things. Our office motto is your schedule isn't final until you graduate. Because since we're we're working with all these external folks, you know, some things are always up in the air and a little bit out of our control, but we always guarantee that, you know, students, we will work as hard as we can to provide students with the best experience possible.
It just may be adjusted over time.
Factors, but, yeah, we have over shoot over 300 preceptors that we work with. Wow. And countless sites. So yeah, lots of different opportunities and, just really exciting to be able to help students find that career that's perfect for them in pharmacy.
That's amazing. And, and I think that, all this information is so incredibly important, experiential. That is such a huge part of pharmacy school. So I really thank you for, for sharing this information with us. And, Doctor Alexander and, Angelina Piano, who works in the Office of Experiential Education. Both great resources. If you have follow up questions.
Come up and see us. We'd be happy to help you. And Sandra Telford, our office coordinator, can you can also point in the right direction. So, we know it's it's sometimes can be a little complicated with, with all the different sites and terminology. So help us help you. Yeah. Don't be a stranger. Alright.
Well, thank you so much, Doctor Alexander.
Katelyn Alexander
Thanks for having me. It was fun.
Till next time, thanks for joining us on White Coat Radio.
