Why Meaning Matters

Welcome to Why Meaning Matters. A Story Studio Network podcast hosted by Erin Trafford with MotivBase cultural anthropologist, Ujwal Arkalgud and MotivBase president, Jason Partridge.   In episode four, Erin begins by reminding listeners of episode three’s conversation around the changing meanings of gender. Tying that into today’s topic she asks why organizations need to care about the meaning of gender, feminity, and masculinity.   Ujwal says organizations need to care about meaning because of the influence it has on the products a company produces and how it empowers organizations to market those offerings.   UJWAL [00:03:17] “We've come to a point where I think especially a lot of our marketing colleagues, talk to us about how they operate from a position of fear, right? It's more about not saying the wrong thing rather than learning to say the right thing again. And that's because we're not asking about meaning.”   Take comedians and their product- comedy, for instance. Some say comedy is dying. Ujwal and Jason believe it’s not dying rather a re-learning of the meaning and the why behind what we say.   JASON [00:05:21] “And I thought it was such a really, really important kind of thing that was, you know, it hit really close to home because a lot of what we're doing is we get so focused on the ‘what’ that we don't take the time to take a step back and start to question the ‘why’ behind the ‘what’. And this is a perfect example of a topic that requires that.“   Erin steers the conversation back to corporate organizations, the impact of examining the why behind what they say and the trickle-down effect it has on leadership, running an organization and building a team. The Fortune 1000 companies that MotivBase works with aren’t just paying attention to what gender means to the consumer. They’re really trying to understand the role of gender in their own organizations.   JASON [00:07:56] “They're starting to think about what's happening at a senior leadership level. Are there preconceived notions that have led to a structure and are they considering kind of how that may be a disadvantage? Have they prevented a different type of thinking, a different type of approach to evolve within an organization that could have given it a competitive advantage? You know, these are the types of things that get very much tied to understanding the role that gender can play, not just in how you're communicating with your consumer, but how it's really kind of shaping how you operate as a structure.“   For large American companies, there are more CEOs with the name John than there are female CEOs entirely. Erin asks, “What is it that needs to be said internally to at least show awareness of the changing meaning?” Ujwal says it’s complicated and acknowledges the challenges that these large organizations face when it ultimately, and realistically, all comes down to money. It’s in seeking the opportunities.   UJWAL [00:09:51] “So a great example of this is, you know if, let's say, and this is true, we're seeing how the meanings around gender are evolving, it's becoming, there's greater acknowledgement of the fact that gender isn't a binary thing. It's not a one and a zero that we could lie on a spectrum of gender. We need to create openness and how we in how we are able to express who we are as people. So all of that is great, but of course, from an organization's perspective, that's a very complex topic to make money off of, right. But then, you can distill it down to say, okay, so what is the area where there's an opportunity? Turns out there is an opportunity because there is now a whole generation of parents with young children that are going, how do I not make the mistakes my parents made?”   It’s safe to say that organizations that see the meaning of gender matters at the family unit level and at the cultural leadership level are owning the narrative, so to speak. And often it’s the little changes that begin to build bigger changes. Like incorporating gender-neutral bathrooms.   UJWAL [00:12:07] “This is not just about marketing by the way, going back to your earlier point, Erin, this also helps their own employees. It makes somebody who's applying for a job go, You know what? The fact that I have a gender-neutral bathroom in my office is something that's going to help me in, you know, feeling comfortable, feeling accepted. Feeling like I can be myself. Think about how significant of an impact that is on your brand. It will trickle down eventually to impacting how people think about you.”   Jason agrees, saying it’s indicative of companies trying to future-proof their business.   JASON [00:13:04] “I think that that is the big thing that is taking place with gender right now is that the companies that are trying to understand the shift, that are deconstructing what is happening, are going to be the ones that are going to better serve their consumers in the future because they're asking the question, ‘Why?’ at the right time.”   Timing is everything and as people, particularly women, begin to return to the workforce post-pandemic Erin sets up the next episode where she and hosts Jason and Ujwal will discuss the meaning of feminity and masculinity and why it matters.   Stay tuned for episode five of Why Meaning Matters. A podcast produced by Story Studio Network and iContact Productions for MotivBase- Decoding implicit meaning behind what people talk about.   If you want to contribute to the conversation, make sure you drop us an email at hello [at] storystudionetwork [dot] com. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to SHARE it, RATE it, and SUBSCRIBE to the show!

Welcome to Why Meaning Matters. A Story Studio Network podcast hosted by Erin Trafford with MotivBase cultural anthropologist, Ujwal Arkalgud and MotivBase president, Jason Partridge. In episode three, Erin begins by highlighting the changing meaning of gender and asking Ujwal and Jason how they work with corporate clients as the meaning has shifted. Ujwal shares a story of a “cringe-worthy” marketing campaign that once landed in his inbox. UJWAL [00:02:35] “They just launched a line of clothing that was all the color gray. First of all, it looked terrible. I mean, who wants to dress their children in gray? It's a boring color. Come on. And then on top of that, they completely misunderstood the core concept of what gender-neutral could mean, could imply. Nobody there sat back and asked, ‘What should this mean?’” Jason elaborates on the surface-level and, arguably, insulting interpretation that was made by a major retailer. JASON [00:03:17] “It was the, you know, desire to play in something that is forward-thinking and provocative and important for a large group of consumers and people moving forward, but not taking the time to actually consider what does this mean to this group of people that are trying to leverage gender-neutral clothing? Why is it important? What are the requirements that will make it relevant to them?” MotivBase has and continues to study the meaning of gender extensively. In the context of the 100-year-old model referenced in episode two, meanings around gender are still in the myth stage. Ujwal shares some examples out of the five or six major interpretations that currently exist. UJWAL [00:4:53] “So some of the myths that exist at the moment, early-stage, early consensus stage, one of it is about literally not feeling ostracized if you were in the boy’s section shopping for your daughter. That’s one example of gender, right. And I'm sure all of us have been in this situation. I mean, there's so many times where I have bought clothes from the boy’s section for my daughter because she loves robots and the boy’s section has robots and I buy that and the cashier will say, oh, but this is for boys.” Erin asks how do we start to change that narrative when we, as individuals, don’t buy into the old truth anymore? Jason says people are naturally rethinking how an individual’s rights could (and often do) mean more than their own preconceived notions. JASON [00:07:29] “I almost think of it like a magnet. Okay. The idea of being open and aware and more cognizant of individuals and their rights to basically express themselves is slowly drawing more and more people to the party, because at the end of the day, people are starting to really start to understand that if they were in that position, that's something they would want people to do for them.” Ujwal reminds us that, at this stage, we’re still talking about multiple meanings, plural, not meaning, singular. Eventually one or two will come out on top dependent on the strength of the ‘magnet’. UJWAL [00:08:43] “You can kind of think about meanings as if you know, they're a bunch of boxers. You put them all in a boxing ring. Eventually one or two of them will survive. And that's just culture for you. Right? And so our job becomes to figure out which of these meanings is more likely to survive. And we can do that by tracking how much consensus it's getting over time.” The idea of the gender binary is one meaning that is heading out the door but it takes time because it is infused in every aspect of our lives from the way we hire to who we believe plays videos games. Jason shares some examples of brands shifting their messaging because of this. JASON [00:11:58] “The reality is, is that as Ujwal referenced, you know, we're talking about meanings, not just meaning, and these things are interconnected and these things are putting tension in the marketplace and reshaping kind of expectations, not just specifically around gender, but in the associations that gender are linked to.” Erin sets up the next episode with mention of ‘Pink Tax’ and the myth of feminism. What it means now. How it is shifting. Stay tuned for episode four of Why Meaning Matters. If you want to contribute to the conversation, make sure you drop us an email at hello [at] storystudionetwork [dot] com. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to SHARE it, RATE it, and SUBSCRIBE to the show!

Welcome to Why Meaning Matters. A Story Studio Network podcast hosted by Erin Trafford with MotivBase cultural anthropologist, Ujwal Arkalgud and MotivBase president, Jason Partridge.  In episode two, Erin begins by asking how we know we’re at a pivot point and what shifts might take place over the next 10 years because of it. Ujwal describes a one-hundred-year-old model that states that ideas usually develop as myths in culture because not enough people believe them at first. Take, for example, the idea that social cohesion is broken in America; it’s still in the myth stage. UJWAL [00:03:34] “That is, it doesn't have mainstream relevancy yet. But, what we can see [00:03:40] is that there is greater consensus coming on this topic that is, it's bringing more and more people in, more and more people are agreeing on the fact that social cohesion is broken and on why that might be the case. This model from myth to truth, very, very interesting, and meaning allows us to track and measure this.” The model of myth to meaning to idea takes place over time and when timing of particular events, like the financial crisis of 2008, is immaculate and shakes a population into vulnerability, huge shifts can occur. JASON [00:06:13] “And all of a sudden there was this question in and around, “What is the future going to look like?” Now, there was the immediate short-term implications of that, which we all saw and we all experienced, but long-term what that really started to do is it started to basically make a lot of people question American exceptionalism and that laid the groundwork or sowed the seeds, if you will, for a narrative where somebody could come in and say, ‘Trust me, I am that outsider. I'm going to be able to fix this.’” Erin digs in by questioning how knowing that the meaning of something is shifting from myth to truth is capitalized on, pandering to the lowest common denominator and how it can be used in redeeming ways. Ujwal highlights the example of the 40 million Americans who do not trust the COVD vaccine. UJWAL [00:08:45] “That's no longer the lowest common denominator. That is no longer just somebody who's uneducated. It is no longer somebody who's, you know, maybe into, I don't know, some crazy theories about the way the world works. This is roping in people that are educated. It is roping in people who have some amount of pragmatism in their approach to life. And I think that's the scary part that a lot of organizations don't understand.” For Jason and Ujwal, regularly remind people when they work with organizations to help them understand what their constituents and consumers believe and assign meaning that if empathy is not present they’re already off on the wrong foot.   JASON [00:09:51] “... Because the problem is that if we don't have that empathy for how somebody has been living. The particular decision that they're making. We're not walking in their shoes. We're not understanding how we are able to reach out and connect with them. That's important from a political standpoint, it's important from a consumer standpoint.” Erin probes further. If fear and misunderstanding are at the center of it all, how do we have the courage to bridge that gap to move forward and grow in these new environments? Fortunately, Ujwal shares that when something is in the myth stage, it can be adjusted. UJWAL [00:10:52] “The narrative can be adjusted, but if you don't have courage and you sit there waiting and going, “Oh, maybe it won't uptake.” Eventually, it achieves the position of a truth and then there's very little you can do. All you can do is comply with the requirements of the truth. You have to figure out which truth you can play with and that's it. You have to comply. And I think this is why the courage conversation is actually a critical one.” Erin, Jason and Ujwal promise to dive more into broken social cohesion, changing meanings of masculine and feminine, and how we, as individuals, play into the myths that become truths. Stay tuned for episode three of Why Meaning Matters. If you want to contribute to the conversation, make sure you drop us an email at hello [at] storystudionetwork [dot] com. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to SHARE it, RATE it, and SUBSCRIBE to the show!

Welcome to the inaugural episode of Why Meaning Matters. A Story Studio Network podcast hosted by Erin Trafford with MotivBase cultural anthropologist, Ujwal Arkalgud and MotivBase president, Jason Partridge.  In episode one, Erin poses the question, why does meaning matter? And, what do coffee and Bill Gates have anything to do with it?  Using it as an example to explain how meaning changes over time, Ujwal describes how coffee culture has transformed over the last decade resulting in four to five major vectors of meaning that we consider when buying coffee. UJWAL [00:02:27] “Was this coffee farmed ethically? Were the workers paid well? You know, what are the tasting notes like? Will this coffee bean work well with whatever intricate machine or system I have at home? There's so much to it now. And you know, one could argue that the world of coffee has sort of become just as complex as the world of wine or even beer. But I think this is what's fascinating about how meaning changes over time.” We live with meaning based decisions everyday. JASON [00:03:16] “Even this morning, I think about the pressure that got put on me as I went to a Starbucks and my wife wanted a vanilla latte and the lineup was so big and I'm looking at my watch and I know that we've got things to do and kids to get to daycare. And God forbid, I had to just get her a dark roast with milk because I didn't have time to wait for them to prepare it. And there was this fear and trepidation of me going back with something that just didn't live up to the expectation.” Bill Gates wrote in 1996 that, “We always overestimate the change that will occur in the next two years and underestimate the change that will occur in the next ten. Don’t let yourself be lulled into inaction.” UJWAL [00:07:21] “The reason why [the quote is] so powerful is because traditionally speaking, even today, most companies, they predict where culture, where shifts are happening, they use behavior data to predict. And the problem with behavior is it changes a lot in the short-term. And flip-flops a lot and it makes it very difficult to model it.” Jason elaborates on the impact using the example of decisions around purchasing coffee. More than two decades ago it started with shifts in behavior, consumers wishing to support Fairtrade farming and now it’s associated with meanings of sophistication, worldliness, and more. JASON [00:09:53] “At the end of the day, if you'd make a bet on that short-term behavior change. Which is, in and around something like fair trade farming, if you don't zoom out and take a look at how that is being impacted by all these different associations, you don't have the full picture and you don't have a really clear gamut on what you can be doing to make longterm investment and long-term inroads.” Erin questions what changes have we missed over the last 10 years and Ujwal shares the story of Apple and their white ear buds.  UJWAL [00:11:46] “What the iPod or what Apple very cleverly did, ironically, a couple of years later, their strategy completely pivoted, but what they brilliantly did was they launched their campaign with, first, a white earbud because it was clearly recognizable. I could be walking the streets and people would know that I'm an illegal downloader because I had white earbuds.” Clearly, the symbol of the white earbuds has changed since then because of the meaning we attach to it. As the episode wraps up we look to the future. JASON [00:13:13] “I always like to say that cliches exist for a reason and I love the cliche, you need to see the forest for the trees and, you know, part of studying meaning is really taking that step back and really understanding the full scope of what's impacting something that matters to you.” As we find ourselves at another global cultural and societal pivot point, “What does this mean for the next 10 years?” Stay tuned for episode two of Why Meaning Matters. If you want to contribute to the conversation, make sure you drop us an email at hello [at] storystudionetwork [dot] com. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to SHARE it, RATE it, and SUBSCRIBE to the show!

Cultural anthropologist, Ujwal Arkalgud and Motivbase President, Jason Partridge will tell you perception and meaning are the primary pressure points that shape and create the world we live in. “Why Meaning Matters” is a weekly podcast series that explores how meaning shapes our experience and sets our expectations. When meanings shift, our economic, political and cultural landscape shifts along with it. “Why Meaning Matters” is hosted by Erin Trafford and produced for Motivbase by iContact Productions and the Story Studio Network.