In this opening episode of a 5 part mini series of Sales Today, we do things a little differently.

Instead of the usual host-led interview, Fred Copestake is in the hot seat as James Michael turns the tables and leads the conversation. Chatting from opposite sides of the world – Fred in the UK and James in Australia – the discussion reflects a wider theme of this episode: sales has been turned upside down.

Together, they explore how selling has evolved from persuasion, pressure, and performance theatre into something far more human, ethical, and buyer-led.

In this episode, they cover:

• Why traditional, manipulative sales tactics no longer work in modern B2B selling
• How sales used to be treated as a "dark art" – and why that thinking causes problems today
• Fred's accidental route into sales and what 25 years across 38 countries has taught him
• The shift from "telling and pitching" to sense-making and clarity-building
• Why today's buyers often know more than the salesperson before the first meeting
• What it really means to sell collaboratively rather than persuasively
• How ethics, integrity, and conscience now play a critical role in long-term sales success

Key takeaway

Modern sales is no longer about control, clever techniques, or forcing outcomes.

It's about helping buyers make sense of complexity, supporting better decisions, and creating value through conversation – not pressure.

When selling is done well today, everyone wins: the buyer, the business, and the salesperson themselves.

About the guests

Fred Copestake is the founder of Brindis, a sales training consultancy. With over 25 years' experience, he has worked in 38 countries, supported more than 10,000 salespeople, and authored three books:

• Selling Through Partnering Skills
• Hybrid Selling
• Ethical Selling

James Michael is the founder of Justified Talent, a recruitment business specialising in helping small businesses make their first sales hire. With a background in behavioural psychology, James takes a radically different approach to recruitment – focusing on assessment and behaviour rather than CVs and interviews.

Connect with James Michael

· LinkedIn: James Michael (Australia) - https://www.linkedin.com/in/smesalesrecruiter/

· Website: www.justifiedtalent.com

This is Episode 1 of a 5-part CEMMT Sales Series, exploring how selling must adapt to modern buyers, ethical expectations, and changing decision-making behaviours.

Subscribe to make sure you don't miss the next episode.

Follow Fred: https://linktr.ee/fredcopestake

Watch this episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/vNdGEyZLeLE

Watch Fred's FREE YouTube Course: Sales Mastery for Engineers: https://bit.ly/Sales-Mastery-For-Engineers

Useful resources

• Take the Collaborative Selling Scorecard – free Check how well your sales approach fits today's buying environment https://collaborativeselling.scoreapp.com/