If you've ever wondered about the real impact of student affairs in higher education—or if you're searching for compelling ways to articulate its value—this episode of "Student Affairs Voices from the Field" is a must-listen. Host Dr. Jill Creighton brings together three leading voices in our field—Dr. Anna Gonzalez, Dr. Lori Reesor, and Dr. Michele Murray—to discuss NASPA's groundbreaking report, The Human Dimension of College: Why Student Affairs Matters.

More than ever, higher education is under scrutiny. Public questions about its worth, declining college-going rates, and increasing skepticism about return-on-investment are creating intense pressure. Against this backdrop, Dr. Anna Gonzalez explains, this report began as a "bold" effort to clarify—and elevate—the unique contributions of student affairs to both the value (market-based outcomes) and worth (intrinsic and societal benefits) of the collegiate experience.

The conversation quickly gets to the heart of what makes student affairs essential. As Dr. Michele Murray points out, college isn't just about earning a degree or improving one's economic prospects; it's a profound period of personal and civic development. The panel identifies seven core dimensions where student affairs "animates" both the value and worth of higher education: career and academic development, civic engagement, access, health and well-being, leadership, innovation, and personal growth.

Listeners will appreciate how candidly Dr. Lori Reesor and Dr. Michele Murray share their own personal journeys and the collaborative process behind the report. They emphasize the vital but often "invisible" work of student affairs—preventing crises, fostering dialogue, and guiding students through transformative moments. They also celebrate the report's new toolkit, which is designed to help professionals tell their story better to external audiences—presidents, trustees, legislators, families, and beyond.

As the discussion closes, the call to action is clear: the time has come to showcase our impact on students and society, both quantitatively and through powerful stories. Whether you're a veteran or a newcomer, this episode offers insights, practical tools, and inspiration to help you articulate why student affairs is more valuable—and more vital—than ever.

Ready to dive deeper? Listen to the full episode and access the toolkit via NASPA's website—start telling the story of student affairs in a whole new way!

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:02]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts brought to you by naspa. We curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you happen to be. This is season 13 on the value of student affairs. I'm Dr. Jill Creighton. She her hers your essay Voices from the Field host today on Essay Voices. We are thrilled to be welcoming the curator and CO authors of NASPA's latest report, the Human Dimension of College why Student Affairs Matters, which is perfect for our season on the value of Student Affairs. We've got three phenomenal student affairs professionals joining us today.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:45]: Our past board chair and curator of this report, Dr. Ana Gonzalez. Welcome, Ana. Hello.

Dr. Michele Murray [00:00:52]: Hi.

Dr. Michele Murray [00:00:52]: Hi Jill.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:53]: Lovely to have you back on Essay Voices. And if Ana's voice sounds familiar, she did one of our episodes in her board chair year. So you can go back to past seasons and check that out. Our second guest is Dr. Lori Reesers. Lori, hello.

Dr. Lori Reesor [00:01:04]: Hi Jill.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:05]: Good morning and welcome. Coming in to us from Wisconsin today And then finally Dr. Michelle Murray.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:01:11]: Michelle, hello.

Dr. Michele Murray [00:01:12]: Hi Jill. Thank you so much for having us.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:14]: And Michelle, one of our good old region fivers. So we've got people from all over, all over the US today. So I want to get started by asking you all how you got to your current seats and then we'll dig into the reports. Ana, I know you've told some of your story before on our pod. You're still at WashU. Anything you want to add to your journey?

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:01:34]: Yes, thanks, Jill. I'm still the Vice Chancellor for Student affairs at Washu. And now the last time I spoke to this podcast, I was actually the NASPA Board chair. I am now on my last year as a NASA board, as the board chair, pass board chair, recent passport chair. So I think that's all that's changed.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:51]: And Lori, it's your first time here on SA Voices. You were at UW Madison. What you have going on in terms of your journey and how you got to that seat.

Dr. Lori Reesor [00:01:59]: Yeah, thanks, Jill. It's great to be on and my first podcast. So a little nervous but a little excited. I have spent almost my whole career in student affairs. This is my third ssao job and it was a way to continue doing the work as a student affairs leader, but also come back home to my home state of Wisconsin. So it's a win win for me and my family and just excited to be doing the work.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:20]: And in our pre show chat I mentioned my mom is an alum of UW Madison, as well as all of her siblings and her dad. So I have to say, go bad on behalf of my fam.

Dr. Lori Reesor [00:02:29]: Go badgers. Love it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:30]: And Michelle, welcome to our show for your very first time. We're excited to have you former region fiverr. Now region one person, tell us how you got to your current seat.

Dr. Michele Murray [00:02:40]: Yeah, sure. So I'm at the College of the Holy Cross here in Worcester, Massachusetts, and it's my third Jesuit institution. My second time as the senior student affairs officer. But also at Holy Cross, I serve as the senior mission officer as well. So staying very busy and we like.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:57]: To see that VPSA em in combination. I think you get a much more unique perspective on the whole arc of the student experience when you're going from recruitment to graduation.

Dr. Michele Murray [00:03:07]: Sorry, you know what? It's not admission, it's mission. So. So the Jesuit Catholic mission and identity of the institution.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:15]: Excellent. Well, we're here today because you all have put out the latest NASPA report. And Ana, this began as a charge under your board chairship. Can you talk to us about why this report? Why what drove the board in this direction to create this.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:03:31]: That's great. So when I got elected as board chair elect, I've been really. I was really thinking, where are we going in terms of as a student affairs as a profession? It was a time when people were saying they wanted to leave the profession. How hard it was a little past Covid and really thinking of the value of student affairs and why student affairs and why higher education. The numbers were shocking in terms of people not wanting to go to higher education, not believing in our. And then in many ways student affairs over the years being blamed or being shut down, but yet being needed when times of COVID or other disasters were happening. And so it was really trying to get the lay of the land to really respond and frankly to look up bold ideas about why student affairs is actually the value proposition in higher education and why I believe we bring worth to the institution of higher education. But is that right? Is that just my voice? And so getting really a group of experts in the field and then being led and tapping Michelle and Lori to lead that discussion has been like an honor for me.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:04:42]: And I just love how the report ended up to be. But it was really that response in my head thinking, what is the worth of higher education? And as a first generation college student, I always knew the worth. But it seems like so many people are questioning it now.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:55]: Absolutely. And we're seeing a shift in how the value of higher education is being perceived across The US Right now in terms of what does the value of that education mean for everything from employability through positionality in society and other things. So this is very, very timely for what we're seeing. How did you select Lori and Michelle to be leading the charge forward?

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:05:20]: They are brilliant. So I've known both of them in different capacities, met them both through naspa. Lori, during my first time as a senior student affairs officer, she actually invited me to be on a panel at a session. And then Michelle, she started kind of taking on different leadership roles, and so. And then culminating when she was the conference chair. I was always like, she's so cool. Both of them are so great and cool. Both of them also represent different regions, right? The east coast, the Midwest, large R1, and then a private Jesuit institution.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:05:55]: And so all of the things mattered to me. And so I wanted brilliant leadership and then different experiences in the field.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:02]: You started with a blank slate and idea to represent the value proposition of student affairs. What was the charge to Laurie and Michelle when you invited them to participate in this new adventure?

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:06:12]: It was so funny because I come up with great ideas, and then I did get brilliant people to actually make it happen. And they did. But the charge was to think boldly, to really center the conversation in our contributions in this profession and in the world. Why does someone choose to go to higher education? Everyone gets a degree when you go to higher ed, or you hope to. But what are the unique things that actually enhance it? What increases the value of that education? And so I kept saying, it's student affairs, centering student affairs into dialogue, into discussion. And we've had some fun conversations. They were like, oh, this is going to be a little bold, a little scary. I'm not sure our other colleagues would believe it.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:06:56]: And so just kind of pushing that through. And they both said yes. And so I love that. And. And they both led the conversation in terms of making sure that the right kind of individuals, in terms of who they represented, really fit in the group.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:10]: All right, Lori and Michelle, you get the call from Ana. She says, please help us build this thing. Tell us what your experience was putting together the task force, as well as figuring out what the heck you were going to write about beyond this idea.

Dr. Lori Reesor [00:07:23]: I'm happy to start. First of all, I'm a huge fan girl of both Ana and Michelle, so you can't say no to Ana Gonzalez. I think everybody knows that. And in all true confession and transparency, I didn't get her vision. I knew she had it, but I wasn't sure like, just like she said, like, what are we doing? Like, I get the concept, I get the. But, like, how are we going to do this? And I'm a little bit more on the operational kind of strength. I think of things. And so I think that's just a lesson to, honestly, to NASA members is sometimes you get asked and you're like, okay, I'm in.

Dr. Lori Reesor [00:07:56]: I don't really. I don't think this is my strength. I really didn't. But then when she partnered us with me and Michelle, which was like, oh, my gosh, again, everybody knows Michelle Murray and the, you know, the savior of the NASPA conference and all these other things, I mean, it was just like, no. Yes, it's true. It's true. She's shaking her head. Anyway, it was just an honor and privilege and then to work with really amazing people, too.

Dr. Lori Reesor [00:08:19]: Right. So that was the other gift, is that the three of us then got to put together our team. We wanted to really make sure that all regions were represented. Represented. It represented all types of institutions. And so then that made it really, really rich as well. And so I described us as kind of a think tank. And that was, again, really an honor and privilege.

Dr. Lori Reesor [00:08:38]: And I think Ana might have been desperate in. In picking me to do this, but that's okay. It was fun. It was fun. It was good. It was a good stretch for me. It was a good stretch for me.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:08:46]: I'm going to interrupt to say the funny part is that I forgot to say why I picked Lori. She talked about Michelle's great, amazing, the conference, saving us and sharing that despite all Lori's strength is Lori asks questions. And so she always makes me think, like, we sit on other different boards and committees. And I love that Lori thinks things through and asks questions. She doesn't just say, this is how it's going to be. So that is why.

Dr. Lori Reesor [00:09:13]: That's so sweet, Ana.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:14]: So my.

Dr. Lori Reesor [00:09:15]: One of my NASA awards, I have a plaque over in my office says, ask the hard questions. And so thank you. Thank you for that. That's so sweet.

Dr. Michele Murray [00:09:22]: I absolutely see that. And I think, Laurie, you and I were very different, but we work together so well, and I love that you do ask questions. You're also really methodical about how we go about things, and that helped us make sure that no stone was left unturned. And really attending to all the different intricacies that were a part of the discussions that we had, and you made sure that. That we accomplished our goals. Right. It just was really helpful, I think. Jill, your question was what happened when we got the call.

Dr. Michele Murray [00:10:00]: So let me go back to that and say, yeah, I was surprised. Lori is 100% right. No one says no to Ana. So I knew that wasn't even an option. And I absolutely understood. I thought Ana was prescient in being able to identify that there's a public concern about whether or not it's worth it to go to college and what's happening at our at higher ed institutions. And I already had a concern for myself that were some populations of young people being discouraged from college attendance. And so having this opportunity to really dig in and describe what it is that happens for students when they pursue a degree was, I think, really very meaningful to me.

Dr. Michele Murray [00:10:48]: And so, as Ana said, right. People attend a class college because they're hoping to get a degree. They work hard to earn that degree, and that's one piece of it. There needs to be of economic benefit in terms of employability at the end. And I get that too. And there is something that's happening during college attendance that's really about an informed citizenry, that's really about how people work and live together that is less talked about and less known. But still, as a society, we rely on all of that. We rely on that human development.

Dr. Michele Murray [00:11:26]: So having an opportunity to think boldly with a group of colleagues about how might we represent this, this side of college attendance that isn't really talked about very much, how do we represent it fairly and in a way that people understand it and can get on the train and believe in its importance? I thought that was a really great vision that Ana had and I'm really feel really lucky to have been a part of it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:54]: I want to make sure we mention for NASPA members, this report is available for free with your membership. It was also sent out in an email earlier in October. So please go back and check it out and you can kind of follow along with our conversation. One of the things that's right up front in the report is the executive summary that distinguishes the importance and delineation of value versus worth. This is such an important component. Our season theme for the podcast is the value of student affairs. As soon as I read this, I went, oh, maybe we should have reframed this as both value and worth. And so I want to just read a moment in the report.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:12:26]: It reads, the value refers to the market based outcomes of higher education such as employment, income and economic security, Whereas worth encompasses the intrinsic and societal benefits of a degree such as civic participation, personal growth, and community vitality. Both are essential and both are strengthened by student affairs. Why did you all decide to anchor the report with this message?

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:12:48]: I can start a little bit and maybe the two of you can jump right in there. You know, I've been thinking a lot about, as I thought about the podcast and this work, I had a trustee at my former institution at Harvey Mudd, and he did not have a college education, did not, and is executive vice president of a major, major corporation. And always said they just thought it was too late to get a college education. But he invests his time and money and energy in college education. And again, saying that there is something both the worth, right, you graduate. But more importantly, he said, there's something that is so valuable about college education that you can't put money on it. But the students learn to be leaders. And so I think in our discussion of value and worth, the different ROIs, what are they and how do we categorize them? But the value and worth piece did not come from me, although that's in a way what I was thinking.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:13:50]: We led to it. So Michelle and Lori can jump in there. But I remember it vividly. The conversation at my dining room table with the committee at my home.

Dr. Michele Murray [00:13:59]: Let me jump in there. And Ana just referenced our first in person meeting. And maybe it was our only in person meeting. It was several days long and she opened her home to us. And so we had these very deep conversations about what is happening for students when they are enrolled in our institutions in a really comfortable, hospitable environment that allowed us to play with the different ideas and identify what it is that we observe and have been observing over the course of our careers. And very quickly, actually, we settled into this conversation about value and worth. And NASPA is doing its strategic planning concurrent to us having these conversations. And so maybe part of it was related to the conversations that NASPA was having separate from this task force.

Dr. Michele Murray [00:14:51]: But almost very quickly, you know, we said there is something that's happening for students in their growth and development that has everything to do with their out of classroom experience. And that's the piece that we have to capture because the public conversation is about the worth of the degree and what happens around employability. And we were focused on how students, the only words I have for this is how they come home to themselves and discover a bit about who they are and how they want to be in the world. And so that's what we wanted to identify as. At least that's my recollection of how that all came together.

Dr. Lori Reesor [00:15:32]: You can tell Michelle's Mission driven purpose in life always comes through which I adore and respect and admire so much. And that was a huge integral part of this project too, I think. Like Ana, I'm a first generation college student and going to college changed my life. I'm the oldest of six children. I'm the only one that finished college. And I love all my siblings and they have great lives, but they have different lives and in a lot of ways and so I'm grateful. And that's what propelled me to go into student affairs, that's what propels me to stay in this work, is that I truly believe higher education changes lives and I believe higher education changes society and democracy and all of those really important things. And I respect it's not for everybody.

Dr. Lori Reesor [00:16:14]: I totally get that. And that's part of that narrative out there. So I do struggle a little bit with elitism and those messages that are coming out in our society or from some sectors of our society. And yet I think it should be be a core value of education. It should be a core value of learning. And so learning can happen in lots of different ways and lots of different places and with lots of different strengths. But it's learning either a subject matter, whether that's political science or biology, or how to be a great plumber, all those things are about learning. And then I think the other piece though, that that is where we do make this difference is about, as Michelle said, learning about oneself and one's community and the broader world as well.

Dr. Lori Reesor [00:16:57]: And so that is the piece that I do have a bias that I think would be great that everybody does focus on that. And if they don't do it through higher education, okay, then I hope that they do it in some other forms. And maybe it's through their religious or other communities or some of those other kinds of things. But we have to get better in our society about caring more about others and respect and dignity for all of humankind. And I do believe that's a huge. I always struggle with the value and worth that's a huge worth that we provide in student affairs and through higher education. So those were some of the important things that we were trying to document. And I just want to give a quick shout out because I don't want to forget this.

Dr. Lori Reesor [00:17:31]: And I know Michelle and Ana will jump in on this too. Brian Sponsler helped, was really, really instrumental and he was our consultant that worked with us on this project and a phenomenal thinker and writer. And I just want to, he really helped also, I think, shape some of this conversation and the value and worth. So we had a great committee and everybody contributed and they were all fabulous. But Brian absolutely deserves a huge shout out for the great work that he did. And so thank you, Brian, on behalf of us and NASPA, all of higher education.

Dr. Michele Murray [00:18:02]: I 100% agree with that. Thank you, Brian.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:18:04]: Thanks, Brian.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:05]: Ultimately, you landed on seven dimensions that represent areas of student affairs and as you say, animate the value and the worth of our profession. They were career and academic development, civic engagement and community responsibility, access and opportunity, health and well being, leadership and ethical decision making, problem solving and innovation, and personal development and life skills. Our profession is hard to encompass and capture because we work with a lot of intangible pieces of the human experience, with mostly young adults and things like that. So I'm wondering, how did you choose these seven dimensions? Why were they the ones that rose to the top as the most important things to be talking about in the framing of value and worth of student affairs?

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:18:51]: When we started talking about this in our, we call like we had a retreat, an in person retreat. You know, you can't do this work. You can't depend on just the virtual, right? We had to, to really cast it out a few days together. Although some were virtual, it was a hybrid, I guess. But to really sit down and really talk about what is going on in higher education and in student affairs and what is the why? I remember that. What is the purpose? What is the why? And what are people doing? What are the great issues that we were trying to address? And it was a long list. I mean, everyone kind of came in with roi, of course, career and what do we do dialogue. There's the issues of protests or people engaging with one another, all of the things.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:19:34]: And so we started doing that and it started categorizing it and we kept hashing and rehashing it out. And even I think midway through this project, I remember thinking, are we including everything in it? And even issues like well being, you know, we're known for that. And so we basically started with a blank slate of both what the expectations and the work of student affairs are, what the greater issues that we were trying to solve and address in our work. And then I think from there started piecing together groupings, but also hashing it out because an issue for students in community colleges might be different or look different than someone in an R1 and might have more weight than someone in an R1 and vice versa. So I'll start that off to say it was a bit of a, let's put everything on this white big board or whatever we were using. And let's start engaging and trying to figure out who are we, what are we trying to do, what is our value and our worth? What are the issues? I don't know if Laurie and Michelle want to jump into like the selection process of things.

Dr. Michele Murray [00:20:41]: Hannah, you just described the process, I think really well. And, and I would say one of the things, you know, sometimes in student affairs people interact with us as crisis managers, right? Or as event planners. And all of that is true. And that's all there. And we're also educators, all of us have gotten into this as educators. And so we did have this conversation about what is the change that we see in students as a result of the work that we and our colleagues are doing with them day in, day out. And then it wasn't that difficult actually to get to the seven. I mean, everything grouped together pretty well.

Dr. Michele Murray [00:21:24]: And then I think it took probably more time to make sure that we were using the accurate language to describe each of the categories than it did to actually create the categories themselves. So we wanted to be really careful about it. One of the things that I'll say that real affirmation point. Ana and our staff actually at WashU decided just kind of out of the blue, maybe in support of this project to gather a bunch of students and ask them on video, what does it mean to you that you're in college? Describe your experience, why is college worth it? And just those very open ended questions and the things that students said to describe their own learning and how they experienced the worth of their college attendance matched right along the seven dimensions that we had identified. And it was almost uncanny. You know, they weren't told what to say, they weren't prompted in any sort of way except for an open ended question. And what was really nice was to hear that the students, at least on Ana's campus, and then several of us went and did the same thing on our own to hear from our own students that how they experience their own growth and development and what's worthwhile to them about being in college and why this may be makes a difference to them are the things that are happening for them outside of the classroom and how they experience their own growth and development. So that I think more than anything said, we are definitely on the right track here.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:56]: I think that's a great lead into my curiosity around how were the examples investigated, what were the methodology of the task force to decide that these are going to be what's represented to showcase these examples of the dimensions, because the dimensions could have gone so many different ways in terms of what data sets were being represented or what messaging would have been important. And the examples are amazing. So, yeah, can you talk about how those ended up being the ones that are shining?

Dr. Lori Reesor [00:23:26]: NASPA was a great partner, of course, and supporter in this work. And again, a shout out to Stephanie Gordon, who was on the team and helped lead a lot of the internal operational aspects of it. So I would say that these sentiven impact areas were sort of this broader philosophical skills, attributions, outcomes that we were looking for. And then again, we wanted the programs that exemplified that. So NASPA used some of the programs that won some of their excellence awards, which was a national transition. Right, to lift those up. They've already been acknowledged and rewarded and recognized in that way. But what I love about this project is that NASPA has created a toolkit that all of us can then plug in our own programs to meet each of those seven things and really encouraged to do so because it's one thing to have this kind of national thing and it doesn't speak maybe to your local community, your local politicians, your local boards.

Dr. Lori Reesor [00:24:22]: And we really wanted this to be, again, very, very practical and useful because this is such an important topic to talk to folks about and to educate them. And so I absolutely am so proud that we that NASPA created this toolkit. I can and I plan to will take this document and make it UW Madison focused. And I think Michelle's gonna do the same thing for the College of the Holy Cross and so in Wash U. Right. So, so then everything becomes more localized as well as nationalized. And I think it's just really a beautiful things. 100% want to encourage our colleagues to go online.

Dr. Lori Reesor [00:24:55]: There's a website, there's all the stuff that's there. I think it's very practical, very, very useful. So the goal would be that there'd be hundreds or thousands of these documents that would be out there swirling amongst all of our states and local communities to do this education and make it very real and very, very practical for all of our colleagues across the country.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:16]: For our NASPA members to find the toolkit that Lori is referencing, just go onto the NASPA website and find the report that is labeled the Human Dimension of College Worth. And on that landing page, you can not only view the report, you can also click down to view the toolkit, which is right at the bottom of the page. There are some template links where you can add your own information. And it will pop and look as polished as the report that is currently published. And I really appreciate this activation because a lot of times we see things come out where we're going great, I've read this. Now what do I do with it or why does it matter to my campus or my local community? Or how do I tell the story to the president of my university or the other cabinet members at the university? And this gives a real tangible way to activate this work, which I think is just a great addition.

Dr. Michele Murray [00:26:01]: And Jill, I want to pop in on that point and also give Lori a lot of credit because Lori first of all asked us over and over as a task force, how do we assess our work and where do we need to be better? And so the toolkit also includes here are the kinds of metrics that you might need to collect, here are the kinds of things that you might want to talk about. Some of us are better at assessment more systematically than others, but I think Lori's questions helped fuel we need to provide examples for how this work is done well and then how institutions might describe what's happening on the ground. And to your point, Jill, about explaining the work or the impact of the work to different audiences, we heard that loud and clear from our NASPA constituents. You know, our colleagues at naspa, we had a couple of sessions at annual conference in New Orleans and we heard any number of times that people would find this document the most useful if it didn't speak to us as student affairs people, but really opened up the world of what we're doing to educate students outside the classroom and helping them grow and develop and open that world to whether it's colleagues inside the campus, so members or people outside, whether that's parents or lawmakers, or if we need tools to talk to our trustees to help people really understand what's happening for students when they are on our campuses. So I really thank Lori for focusing us on the need to tell the assessment story, recognizing too that a lot of times we don't see what happens in the two years or the four years that a student is with us. The outcome is really five or 10 years later. And so going back to talk to our alums about the impact of their college going experience is an important part of that storytelling as well.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:03]: I'm going to give a shout out and reach back to Dr. Mike Sagawa who initiated this conversation on the NASPA podcast about telling our student affairs story better. And that episode is a couple seasons ago, so please feel free to go back and take a listen. Dr. Sagawa is a distinguished pillar of our profession and just an incredibly intelligent critical thinker voice in our field. I can't say enough positive things about Mike, so please go back and listen to that episode. Yes, but that theme of needing to tell our story better externally has been just absolutely prolific through this season of our show on the value of student affairs. Every time I ask one of our theme questions about what do we need to do to be better seen, the response is almost always we need to tell our story better.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:44]: And we have this ongoing joke internally in the profession that my parents don't even know what I do, which is kind of funny, but kind of not because it means that our profession isn't really understood by even many who have gone to college. So there's such a value in showing us how do we tell our story through this toolkit. It's just such an incredible tool to add. And so I want to make sure that our listeners, wherever you are in your professional journey, whether you be in your first year, whether you're a grad student or whether you're an ssao, have the opportunity to take this and to put it out to your communities in this way.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:29:21]: I love that. I think that when we think about telling our story and student affairs have used different ways to tell the story, but through another lens, right? Through academic competencies that we've taken on, through different things that stand up the role, which is great, our academic partners, but even they are like, okay, what do you all really do?

Dr. Lori Reesor [00:29:41]: Right?

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:29:41]: And we don't just serve. We work with our colleagues, we work with our students. We are co curricular. And what's exciting about this project, when my team read through it and we're working right now to insert it and for our chancellor to say the trustees need to read this and need to know what you. What student affairs does that the student experience is elevated as a holistic experience. And I think that's what one of the things that we do. We're not just the ambulances that take them when they're in crisis, right? That's the narrative that everyone knows. Earlier someone had said, you know, and then the activities port is it that our students are learning.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:30:21]: And so this is pushing it in a way that is our student affairs language. So I just really am excited about this project.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:27]: This project closes with a call to action. And normally when we see a call to action in a report, it's to us internally in student affairs. But this one is different in that it makes three external calls to action, which I think the Toolkit, again, embodies an opportunity on how to do that effectively. So the call is for leaders in public policy and private philanthropy, for other institutional leaders outside of student affairs and for the public. This is something that I again have deep appreciation for in terms of the way that this is framed, because it starts to help us get a framework on how to push the narrative outward as opposed to continue to kind of internally support ourselves through these narratives, which is often what has happened historically. Can you talk about how you decided to frame these and why they matter for the value and worth of our profession?

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:31:16]: I'll jump first to say that I think that the danger we've seen different student affairs divisions get divided it up and those are decisions made from very high up level, right in a way external to the inside the profession in many ways. And also that the questions about the value and worth of student affairs in particular comes a little bit from inside, but a lot from outside that we needed to get outside of our echo chamber to talk and tell the story and own that story and what we really do. And I think even the audience of this, well, of course, our entire student affairs professionals, all different levels, should read it and understand it. And my vision of this, and I think the group bought into it, was that our chancellor will have it at his desk and when he will talk with a state legislature like, this is what we do and this is these student affairs folks and this is the student experience and why this is worth it.

Dr. Lori Reesor [00:32:14]: I think two things I want to echo what Michelle said earlier about what we learned from our colleagues at the NASPA conference. They inspired us that again, they need this document for all these purposes. And so again, I think they pushed us appropriately. So again, it's not just something that goes on the shelf, but it needs to be an action oriented piece. And that everybody, really everybody is struggling in trying to manage this narrative and have these conversations. So to have that as a tool I think is super important. I think the other piece though also is, in addition to to the data and the assessment and the storytelling, a good colleague of ours, I think both Michelle and Anna and angel, you might know too, Eric Groepich, Dr. Grosspich from Washburn University just posted this article and it was referencing social work.

Dr. Lori Reesor [00:33:01]: But he pushed me to say that this also applies to student affairs. But the heading was success often looks like nothing happened because a crisis was prevented. And that's kind of the nature of our work too in that. And one of our colleagues said, yeah, you don't really know what we do, but trust me, if we didn't do it, you would know. And so it's an inverse now. I don't know that that's the narrative that, you know, I think it, it makes it challenging to present it that way. But we just had Halloween weekend, which is a huge, sometimes chaotic, high risk management weekend. It was crazy, but it was managed.

Dr. Lori Reesor [00:33:35]: That was because of all the, the intentional efforts and education and process and support and all the things that we did. But I was like, like, okay, another weekend, it's on Monday. And it's like, no, no, no, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. We did a lot of work to have that happen. And so that's really kind of forced me to really rethink some of this and how do I communicate that? To say, yes, you're welcome, that that protest went really calmly and didn't make the national news. You're welcome, because that was us. But this article also then talks about the individual and the impact. And I think this also goes back to what Ana was saying is the morale is that then you don't really get that recognition.

Dr. Lori Reesor [00:34:13]: You don't really get that apprecia. So that has to come really intrinsically from your own self to go, I made a difference with that student today, or I made a difference in this situation, or I made a difference. And especially whether small or big places, it doesn't matter. You have to continue to feed that to yourself and have that be your own value and worth for how you're contributing to our students and our universities as well. Again, I think there's lots of good action steps. Maybe I went a little different way, Jill, but I think that intentionality of these action steps are really, really important and y external. But I think there's opportunities for us to do more work internally as well and to tell that story, to support our staff, to help them feel valued and appreciated for all the important work that they do on a daily basis.

Dr. Michele Murray [00:34:58]: Yeah, I really appreciate that, Lori, and I think that that's important. Not that the document is a pat on the back, but it is a recognition of the multiple dimensions that we are at work in students lives. And I think that that needs to be recognized. I also actually really very much appreciate that the call to action is outside of the profession, really, because you know, as we started this session talking about the narrative around higher education nationally is not at the caliber or level that I think higher education actually deserves. And part of what is happening with this report and the calls to action being externally focused rather than calling to the people who are doing the hard work on the ground is that I think this is giving different language for all the folks who are talking about higher education and to have more complete language around what's happening rather than the very narrow band in which the conversation is existing. So I think that that call to action, being externally focused, is really brilliant because I don't know that. At least I've not heard any conversation about. About higher education.

Dr. Michele Murray [00:36:16]: And, you know, I hear a lot about how people think that everything is going wrong and xyz, but I don't hear people having the language about what's going right. And when we ask our alums, because I've just done this to talk about what was meaningful for them when they went to, you know, for their Holy Cross experience, they are brilliant and telling the story of their out of classroom. And I didn't ask them that question, but that is what they actually talk about. And so giving lots of other people the tools to talk about what is really worthwhile about college attendance is, I think, smart. It's just a smart move.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:55]: As we come to a close with our conversation on the report, is there anything else that you would like NASPA members to know about? How to read it, how to use it, how to activate it?

Dr. Lori Reesor [00:37:05]: There's so many ways. It's ANA and I think role model this really well. I mean, I think about using this for our student leaders. I think about using this for our staff. And a lot of times I think, honestly, I have struggled, especially because we're so diverse and some of our people come from a higher ed student affairs background. But many of my staff do not. And so. And they don't even, like, think that they work in student affairs.

Dr. Lori Reesor [00:37:25]: I'm like, no, you do. And this is what that means. And so to have that kind of educational tool of this is what I do or this is what we do holistically is just a fabulous thing. So again, internally, there's so many opportunities and uses, but then also, as we've indicated, that this is really our chance to shine and to tell this story. And I really implore that all of our colleagues across the country at all of your institutions use this to do that, because that will make us better, that will make us stronger, which then obviously impacts our students. And that's the bottom line is everything that we do impacts our students. So the more belief and support that there is for the work that we do, the better our students will be. And that's what it's all about.

Dr. Michele Murray [00:38:07]: Can't think of a better place to end than that. It's about our students.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:38:11]: Thanks, Laurie. That was great.

Dr. Lori Reesor [00:38:13]: Thank you. You're sweet.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:14]: For all of our other guests this season, we've been asking three questions on our theme of the value of student affairs. But because we've spent our entire dialogue today focused on this, I'm only going to ask you each one question, which is our normally second question, and that is, can you share a specific story or moment when you saw the value of student affairs come to life?

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:38:34]: It was actually during a contentious time in higher education. It was protest, and a student was really upset with another student. And I had brought them together at a meal at my house, and they came together as part of different groups, and I saw them, and I talked about the importance of dialogue and having a meal and engaging. And at that moment, the student who was so upset was so upset that the student was going to be in the same space as them, went up and said, I don't like what happened, but I would like to talk with you, and I want to just listen. And I'm going to ask that we listen to each other. And they didn't end up being best friends, but it was the first time they sat down and listened and engaged, and it didn't end up in the shouting match. And they continue to listen and engage over the years, and they keep in touch with me. And I thought that was just the beauty of our work.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:39:32]: There's no theory. There's no grades involved. It was just bringing them together and engaging and listening.

Dr. Lori Reesor [00:39:39]: I had a challenging conversation with some of our student leaders a couple weeks ago about a situation that happened and the lessons that could be learned from that. Multiple sides, of course, to every story. But the gist of it, from my perspective, was that we weren't all on the same page of how a situation was gonna be handled. And so there was a surprise element of it. And I just remember talking with these four student leaders of here's the life lesson. No surprises. People don't like surprises. Your bosses don't like surprises.

Dr. Lori Reesor [00:40:09]: Your partners don't like surprises. Communication is a tactic. But if you want to build trust and if you want to build community and if you want to build collaboration, surprises is not the way to do that. And so it was really one of those just really important lessons of what they were doing, but then how it translates to their broader perspective. There wasn't not a big, like, Ana. It wasn't like a big, you know, Kumbaya. And everybody's like, oh, there's, you know, but But I think there was learning, and I think that there was reflection. And so I think it's just taking those time, those moments, to really help people understand their behaviors and their both intentions and impact.

Dr. Lori Reesor [00:40:50]: And what are the life lessons, both professionally and personally, that you can take away from those situations? So those are that I love those kinds of situations, and we have them all, and our staff have them all the time. But that was probably a most. A more recent one that was significant for me.

Dr. Michele Murray [00:41:06]: Like my colleagues, I have lots of stories, especially whenever I have the privilege to speak to an alum who can reflect back and talk about how their experience at the institution really shaped the adult they became, or how they do their work or the work they do or what they do, whatever the family they raised, all of that is really important. But I think the piece that I want to call out, it's the work of some of my colleagues who do work on constructive dialogue here on this campus. And we just honored that at our football game over the weekend. And we have a group called the Speech Peer Educators, and they are specifically trained to help people dialogue across difference. But we also have a program with it called Dialogue Dinners, and this past month, we did two. One was focused on the history of slavery in this country and the intersection of slavery and the history of this institution. So that was the subject of a Dialogue Dinner. And the other one that we had that was also, I think, pretty hard hitting was AI and its impact on society and on individuals.

Dr. Michele Murray [00:42:15]: And what that means means, you know, for students who are in college and to see these student leaders facilitate and navigate dicey conversations and to have their peers stay in it and be in dialogue with one another, I thought, yep, this is what we do, and this is why we do it. And to have people walk away, I learned something here. My thoughts are more complicated than they were when I arrived. That was a win on both occasions. So to have both of those happen in the last month, I felt really proud of my staff and of the student leaders they work with.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:53]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world. It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:43:05]: Thanks, Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world. And there's a ton of things happening, happening in NASPA. Did you know that NASPA offers on demand recordings for all the webinars offered throughout the year? These recordings are available for purchase and can be viewed at your leisure. Topics for the webinar range across the NASPA competencies and provide professional development from student affairs professionals. On Demand recordings can be viewed by yourself or with a large group during a lunch and Learn or another professional development opportunity within your department or your division. The presentations are about 60 minutes long, including question and answer, closed caption and transcript viewing are available for all webinars. The cost of A webinar is $79 for members and 179 for non members, and institutions that want to register 25 individuals or more will also receive a 15% off coupon.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:43:57]: On Demand recordings are then available for 365 days after your program purchase. If you want to find out more, go to the NASPA website and on the NASPA website you can go under Events and Online Learning and click on the On Demand Catalog to see the whole list of On Demand webinars that are available and I think you'll be surprised at the breadth and depth of webinars that are available as a part of the NASPA Annual Conference that's coming up in March 2026 in Kansas City, Missouri. There's a number of other webinars, affiliated conferences or institutes that are going to be a part of that same conference. The Undergraduate Student Conference is happening on March 8, 2026 and currently you can still submit proposals that showcase diverse experiences in student affairs across different contexts and engage students through creative formats. The program proposals are due on January 5, 2026 and if you're planning to attend the NASPA Annual Conference, this might be a great opportunity opportunity for you to be able to speak to undergraduate students that are considering student affairs. Go to the NASPA Annual Conference website to be able to submit your program proposal today. Also on March 7th and 8th there will also be the Community College Institute, which is a great opportunity for individuals from community colleges to come together and explore innovative teaching technology and collaborate with colleagues to enhance the student experience and shape the future of our associations. On top of that, also on the same days March 7th and 8th will be the International Symposium where you can connect with global leaders and experts in student affairs.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:45:39]: This year's theme is Promising Practices Without Borders. The symposium will explore innovative partnerships and practices shaping the future of international student services. If you have an interest in adding on any of these affiliated conferences or institutes, as well as the wide array of pre conference programming that is happening on March 7th and 8th as well, go to the NASPA website, open up your conference registration information and you can add on an additional pre conference or affiliated conference right there if you missed it. There is a new Journal of College and Character that has recently been released that is accessible for you as a member of naspa. The Journal of College and Character is is a professional peer reviewed publication that focuses on character development in college and how colleges and universities influence, both intentionally and unintentionally, the moral and civic learning and behavior of their students. The journal includes resources and information designed to encourage discussion, research and innovative educational practices, publishing scholarly articles and applied research on issues related to academic ethics, values and character development in higher education. The new issue that is available is available on the NASPA website and you can access it by going onto the NASPA website and go under Research and Publications. Scroll down to Scholarly Journals and you can find that in the other scholarly journals there.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:47:08]: This recent journal has a number of different powerful articles that are both peer reviewed articles as well as invited articles Articles including one entitled Student Suicide and Spirituality by Serena Margaret Saliba and also another one called Greek Life, Character and Religiosity, A Study of Fraternity and Sorority Members at a Christian University by Aaron Ellis, Isaiah King, Will Baxter, Kevin Dougherty and Perry Glanzer. There's a number of other pieces that are in this journal that I would highly encourage you to review for yourself. And as mentioned before, this is only one of the journals that are a part of your membership in naspa, and I highly encourage you to check out all of the journals to extend your own learning and offer you opportunities to be able to bring some of that learning back to your own campus. Every week we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get get involved in different ways. Because the association is as strong as its members and for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the centers, or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself where do you fit, where do you want to give back each week. We're hoping that you that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community, I see myself doing something like that, or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:49:09]: Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in naspa.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:49:20]: Chris, thank you so much as always for keeping us informed on what's going on in and around naspa. And we have reached our lightning round, which means we're almost at the end of our show. Since you have been here before, we have a different lightning round set for you than we do for Lori and Michelle. So we're gonna go for Ana's lightning round first. Ana, are you ready?

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:49:38]: Ooh.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:49:38]: All right, question one. I'm gonna give you an opportunity to change your answer from the first go around. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:49:47]: It would be Apatapeta.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:49:50]: Number two, what was your undergraduate degree and do you use it now?

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:49:53]: Bachelor's in business. And yes, I do use it now.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:49:56]: Question three, your guilty pleasure TV show. Bing.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:50:00]: It's Black Doves. It's my new one.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:50:02]: Question number four, if someone ever visits your city, which is St. Louis, what's the one place they must eat?

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:50:08]: The one thing that they must eat is St. Louis barbecue.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:50:11]: Number five, what's your favorite work related podcast?

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:50:14]: NASPA. This one. It's the only one I do.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:50:17]: Number six, your favorite, not work related podcast.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:50:20]: I don't do other podcasts. I'm boring.

Dr. Lori Reesor [00:50:22]: Fair enough.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:50:23]: And number seven, any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional?

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:50:26]: Yeah, just. Hello, NASPA colleagues. Thank you so much, Jill, for doing this and interviewing. Interviewing us. And this is fantastic.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:50:33]: All right, Michelle and Laurie, we are on to you. We're gonna have Michelle going first, Laurie going second on all of our questions. Question number one, if you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

Dr. Michele Murray [00:50:44]: Earth, Wind and Fire, Shining Star.

Dr. Lori Reesor [00:50:46]: I would say ditto, but the other song I just heard is Thunder, but I don't know if that's the name of it, but that's kind of my, like, get Psych song. Yeah.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:50:53]: Number two, when you were five years old, what did you want to be when you grew up?

Dr. Michele Murray [00:50:57]: I'm so old that when I was five, the choices for girls were nurse and teacher. So one of those hairstylist.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:51:06]: Number three, who's your most influential professional mentor?

Dr. Michele Murray [00:51:09]: There's so many. I can't answer that because if I say one person, I'll feel bad about all the others that I didn't say, but I am really grateful to you know what I'm going to say. Susan Donovan I agree too.

Dr. Lori Reesor [00:51:21]: Many, many, many, many and so blessed for that. But David Ambler from the University of.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:51:25]: Kansas, Number four, your essential student affairs read.

Dr. Michele Murray [00:51:28]: Well, obviously the Chronicle Daily, but I think it's important to read other things and so the Atlantic is my favorite.

Dr. Lori Reesor [00:51:35]: Harvard Business Review would be my favorite.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:51:38]: Number five, the best TV show you've been binging lately.

Dr. Michele Murray [00:51:40]: The Gilded Age.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:51:41]: Love is Blind Denver season just finished. I watched that too. Number six, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

Dr. Michele Murray [00:51:48]: I don't listen to podcasts. So boring.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:51:50]: Mel Robbins and finally, number seven, any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional?

Dr. Michele Murray [00:51:54]: Yeah, I want to shout out Lori for co this thing with me and for what with our task force we produced. But also to Ana, who had the vision and brought us all together and shined. The guiding star.

Dr. Lori Reesor [00:52:09]: Well, of course, ditto. See, this is why I love Michelle. I'm just gonna say ditto to everything she says, but my shout out would always be to my daughter Sarah. So she gives me hope and purpose and love and humility and perspective. So love you, Sarah.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:52:23]: All right everyone, you've made it to the end of our lightning round. The very last thing I will ask you is how can anyone, anyone reach you? If they'd like to reach out, they.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:52:31]: Can email me at Ana A N N A dot Gonzalez with a Z at the end at uustl and folks.

Dr. Michele Murray [00:52:38]: Can reach me at Mmurray M M U R R a yolycross Edu and.

Dr. Lori Reesor [00:52:46]: Ulreser R E E S O R at wisc U I S C edu.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:52:52]: On behalf of the NASPA community, thank you so much for creating this document and this toolkit for us to use at our institutions. I know so many people being able to put forward our student affairs stories through this document. On behalf of everyone and of course myself as the host of the pod, thank you so much for sharing your voice with us today.

Dr. Lori Reesor [00:53:10]: Thank you.

Dr. Michele Murray [00:53:11]: Thank you Jill.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:53:13]: Thanks. This has been an episode of Essay Voices from the Field brought to you by naspa. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to be so great grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email us at [email protected] or find me on LinkedIn by searching for Dr. Jill L. Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions always.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:53:40]: We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a five star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you're listening now. It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps us us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton, that's me. Produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan, Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.