SA Voices From the Field

In the latest episode of "Student Affairs Voices from the Field," host Dr. Jill Creighton welcomes special guests Dr. Jackie Clark and Dr. Jeannette Smith, co-editors of the pivotal new book Student Affairs Professional Preparation: A Scholar-Practitioner Guide to Contemporary Topics. This episode invites listeners into a rich conversation at the intersection of theory and practical application—providing timely insights for anyone invested in the future of student affairs.

The conversation opens with Dr. Jeannette Smith and Dr. Jackie Clark sharing their personal journeys—stories marked by being first-generation college students, transformative mentorship, and finding unexpected career paths in higher education. Their backgrounds set the stage for discussing the book's intent: providing accessible, relevant, and actionable guidance for both practitioners and faculty in student affairs.

Central to the episode is the exploration of what "curriculum" means in the context of student affairs. Dr. Jeannette Smith highlights the importance of recognizing that education happens not only in classrooms, but through every facet of student engagement—from athletics to advising—each with its own learning outcomes and developmental opportunities. Dr. Jackie Clark emphasizes how the book is structured to bridge traditional curriculum topics, such as those defined by professional standards, with emerging and overlooked areas in the field.

The book, as the guests explain, is more than an edited volume—it's an invitation to dialogue. Each chapter brings together scholar and practitioner voices in co-authored discussions that move seamlessly between research and practical wisdom. Listeners hear about standout chapters tackling institutional politics, supervision, counseling skills, and the unique dynamics of various institutions such as tribal colleges and historically Black institutions. The collective energy and care behind the book's creation shine through their descriptions, reflecting the collaborative spirit at the heart of student affairs.

As the conversation turns to enhancing career pathways and wellbeing, Dr. Jeannette Smith and Dr. Jackie Clark stress the importance of providing resources for professional development, fostering a culture of mentorship and recognition, and leading with transparency and kindness.

Whether you're a graduate student, an emerging practitioner, or a seasoned faculty member, this episode offers both affirmation and intellectual provocation. Tune in to hear why community, curiosity, and courage are more vital than ever in shaping the future of student affairs—and get inspired to pick up a copy of this indispensable new guide.

Don't miss this thoughtful exchange, and be part of the ongoing conversation pushing student affairs forward. Listen now!

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:01]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed professionals wherever you happen to be. This is Season 15, Enhancing the Career Pathways and Well-Being of Student Affairs Professionals. I'm Dr. Jill Creighton, she/her/hers, your SA Voices from the Field host. Today on SA Voices, we're pleased to introduce you to 2 scholars who have Today we introduce a new edited volume to the student affairs literature. Our first guest is Dr. Jacque Clark, who is currently the director of a PhD program in leadership studies, as well as an MED in higher education and student affairs at St.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:44]: Martin's University. In addition, she leads the graduate council in her role as director of graduate programs and policy. She completed her PhD at the University of Georgia in 2017 and is currently in her 9th year as a faculty member. She enjoys trying new recipes, taking scenic trips, and visiting museums and exhibitions of all kinds. Our second guest is Dr. Jeanette Smith, who completed her undergraduate and graduate studies at the University of Nevada, Reno. Her research areas of interest include higher education administration and retention and persistence of students from traditionally underrepresented communities. Her doctoral journey was informed by a curiosity about decision makers and led to a hermeneutic phenomenological qualitative study on policy.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:21]: That work has infused every position she's held with the belief that approaching policy from an equitable lens can contribute to dismantling oppressive structures in post-secondary attainment. A first-generation college graduate, Dr. Smith is intentional in collaboratively working across the college to holistically support students through their curricular and co-curricular experience. Dr. Smith has worked in academic advising, residence life, financial aid, student unions and facilities, grant management, student engagement, and foundation stewardship. She currently serves as the Vice President for Student Affairs at Massachusetts College of Liberal Arts, and she resides in Western Massachusetts with her spouse, kids, and one puppy named Porkchop. Welcome to SA Voices, Jeanette.

Dr. Jeannette Smith [00:02:01]: Hello.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:02]: And welcome, Jackie.

Dr. Jeannette Smith [00:02:03]: Hi, Jill.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:04]: We are looking forward to speaking with you both today about the edited volume that you've put out. The book is called Student Affairs Professional Preparation: A Scholar-Practitioner Guide to Contemporary Topics. And your book has an incredible number of contributors and different topics that are really relevant to student affairs pathways and development today. I think it's one of those great editions that really focuses on practical advice for our student affairs careers. So we're going to talk more about that as we get into the episode, but as we always like to start, we'd love to know how you got to your current seat. Jeanette, let's start with you.

Dr. Jeannette Smith [00:02:38]: Thanks, Jill. Thank you for having us. This is really fun. I would say for me, it starts with my mama. I'm a first-gen student from a little bit of a traumatic childhood, and my mama's work ethic was like no other. She did not finish high school, and I grew up in Vegas. She worked in the casinos as a maid for 14 years or so, and she didn't really know anything about college, but she knew that she supported me and wanted the best for me and really pushed me to try my best. So in high school, there was a counselor from the University of Nevada, Reno who came to our school, and she asked me if I was poor and if I had good grades, and I said yes to both.

Dr. Jeannette Smith [00:03:22]: And she said, I will get you to college for free, which I thought, absolutely, I don't know anything else, but I'm going gonna follow her and trust her. But when I got there, like many first-gen students, I struggled. I didn't know how to navigate some of the academic pieces. And I was most excited about some of the basic needs pieces, that there was always food, that there was always heat, that there was always water. And I focused on the social aspects more than my classes. So it was a series of RAs and other staff in housing and academic tutoring and counseling who really helped me to be successful Towards the end of that first year. At that time, I didn't know that that was an entire field of people and a career path for me. It wasn't until I graduated and came back for a wedding that a mentor said, hey, I want you to consider coming back here to work full-time as a grad student and to learn more about student affairs.

Dr. Jeannette Smith [00:04:20]: Maybe a month after that, I was called because there was an emergency hire that they needed, and I was like, yes, Please sign me up. So I got to know more about housing and residence life and academic advising and graduate school and just testing the waters and learning all of these different places that I could step in to support students like me. So I would say there were people in my life who I just value so much, and I always feel like I was surrounded by these incredible women who were breaking boundaries of what it's like to be professional, quote unquote, and work in higher ed and have families and be able to set the path for them. that really looked like I could do it. So that's really how I got started. From there, I worked in housing, financial aid, student unions, facilities management. I bopped around and, and worked outside of Chicago, worked in Olympia, Washington, and eventually landed here at Massachusetts College of Liberal Arts, where I serve as the Vice President for Student Affairs. And I absolutely love it.

Dr. Jeannette Smith [00:05:25]: I get to support staff in doing all of that day-to-day, face-to-face, on-the-ground work. I get to help try to contribute to creating a positive, healthy work environment where there's recognition and camaraderie. And I get to see students all the time. We're a small campus, and so students are in and out of my office daily. And I love that I still get to interact with students, 'cause sometimes when you get to this level, you don't get to see students as much, but I see them every day. And it's a really wonderful field that I didn't know was a field, like so many of us.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:00]: Jeanette, thank you so much for sharing your journey into the profession. I think we always have such non-traditional routes. I guess that's to say there's no such thing as a traditional route into a VP Student Affairs role. But I love to hear that there was somebody who saw you, believed in you, and said, I'm going to help you get there from the beginning. And Jackie, same question for you. Can you tell us your story of how you got to your current seat in higher ed?

Dr. Jackie Clark [00:06:20]: Interesting, Jeanette. I also have a mom, a similar pathway in terms of not finishing high school and having a difficult cult upbringing. But it, by the time I was in middle school, my parents wanted me and my brother, they knew we had to go to college. That's what they knew as first gen. And they didn't know much about college. And so they just knew we needed to go to college. So they sent us to a little Episcopalian prep school. It was really small.

Dr. Jackie Clark [00:06:46]: My graduating class was 44. So really small, but it was a college focus. You're going to college, like whether you like it or not, you're going. So turned out to be amazing. And after, you know, the process of searching, I ended up at Randolph-Macon Women's College. in Lynchburg, Virginia, and the only single-gender institution I applied to. But when I went to visit, the vibe, we shall say, was amazing. And I just felt at home.

Dr. Jackie Clark [00:07:12]: I don't know how to articulate that any other way. And I've heard other people talk about feeling like they're in the right place. And so that's just how it felt to me. And at the start of my second semester as a first-year student, the Dean of Students there, her name was Donnie Morgan. Talked to me about serving as an RA. Uh, someone had quit position mid-year and I thought, really? Okay. I guess she sees something, so I'm gonna try it. Why not? So there was the start of the life right there.

Dr. Jackie Clark [00:07:43]: So I was an RA for the rest of my time in college. And during my senior year, they hired the first person at that institution with a master's degree in higher ed and student affairs. And she'd come from Virginia Tech and her name was Kelly. And she was talking to me about, you should do this as a career. And I thought, a career, really? Is that a thing? So she said, yes. And this will age me significantly when I tell you about how this went, the process. She says, I'm going to call my faculty over at Tech and we'll just go over there and visit. You can check it out.

Dr. Jackie Clark [00:08:18]: So she drove me to Virginia Tech and we actually went in and met her faculty. And I'm thinking, Oh my gosh, this is amazing. Then I applied, got in, and went to Virginia Tech for my master's degree straight out of undergrad, which was also just super, super fun. It was so fun. Like, I really liked college, did not like secondary ed, but I really liked college. And then being able to go into like a master's program where all you're doing is the thing that you want to do. So there were no classes that I thought, oh, I don't really want to do this. And so that was just amazing.

Dr. Jackie Clark [00:08:51]: So still doing housing as my primary area. And when I finished, I stayed in housing for a few years, worked at Mary Washington College then, it's a university now, and Nova Southeastern in Florida. And then I took a little bit of a sidetrack into the publishing world when someone asked me from a company to write material for first-year experience textbooks. And so we did textbooks for first-year experience and whether that's at a 4-year or community college. So I had a little bit of a private sector moment. And then one day I woke up when I was 44 and said, I think I want a doctorate. So I want to do something different. I'm going to go back to school.

Dr. Jackie Clark [00:09:35]: And so I started that process, ended up at University of Georgia, had an amazing time there in their PhD program and met so many amazing people. And then I graduated and started the job search for faculty position. And Amazingly ended up out here at St. Martin's University here in Olympia, Washington. I'd had a brief stint prior living in Portland, Oregon, and I absolutely love the Pacific Northwest. So if people are wondering what in the world, how'd you end up on the other side of the country? My job search was pretty much contained to Virginia to Florida, southern region, because I had professional connections. And at that point in my career, I didn't wanna have to completely restart professional connections and everything else. And of course, in the South, You've got an amazing SACSA organization, like student affairs professional world there is so good.

Dr. Jackie Clark [00:10:25]: But yes, and so since I live down here in the Pacific Northwest, I opened up looking for jobs here too. So that's the weird way I ended up out here. And I'm now starting my 9th year as faculty here at St. Martin's and love it. It's just, it's very lucky to have such a good job.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:40]: Thank you, Jackie. Jeanette, I'm also curious how you made the connection with Jackie. How did you two meet? What's your co-editor meet cute and how did you decide to get into the business of this giant project.

Dr. Jeannette Smith [00:10:54]: Whenever I tell students about it's important to make connections and make friends, I think about this moment. I was working at the Evergreen State College, and I needed to find a graduate student. We were doing some really cool work around reorganization and reimagining, and we needed some support in carrying that out. But I thought this is a really great opportunity for a graduate student to learn more about student affairs and have an opportunity to put their stamp on this really cool body of work we're doing. So I had reached out to St. Martin's University because I knew that they were starting a graduate program. At the same time, I feel like Jacque, you came to a session on our campus to talk about the program.

Dr. Jackie Clark [00:11:41]: I did.

Dr. Jeannette Smith [00:11:42]: And I was like, I'm so glad you're here. 'Cause guess what? I need a graduate student. So that's, I think, first how we got connected. And then one day after having 2 fabulous grad students, Jackie needed help with teaching a course. Like something had happened. Do you remember what happened?

Dr. Jackie Clark [00:12:00]: Well, I guess some of the context real quick is that when I came out here, it was to start a master's program. I was the first faculty member in a higher ed student affairs master's program. So the first couple of years was very much in building mode, and I was the faculty member. So I was working through figuring out classes I'm teaching and my load, and then who was I going to be able to identify to assist with some of the other classes. So it was still early on. So that's probably what happened, Jeanette. I think I just, after our conversations, I identified your interests, areas, and things and thought you'd be really good with this. So yeah.

Dr. Jeannette Smith [00:12:36]: Yeah, I'm very thankful. It's been lovely to serve as adjunct faculty and instructor under Jackie. For St. Martin's. And I just teach a student development course, like as an intro course for the cohorts as they're starting. And as we were getting to know each other even more and talking about our connections professionally, we started talking about how hard it can be when we are hiring full-time staff and the changing landscape of the work that we do in student affairs. And wouldn't it be interesting if we were to explore that even more and maybe write a book about it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:11]: So tell me how you found this particular gap in the literature and what made you want to move your scholarly work in this direction.

Dr. Jackie Clark [00:13:18]: Again, growing out of our conversations and talking about, particularly as I'm getting a better sense of what it's like on the faculty side of things and running a program and thinking about professional development through the educational side, but having had time on the practitioner side, I always feel like I have one foot in sort of both worlds, so to speak. And so that was, we'd have these conversations about how we're translating these things from theory to practice, back and forth between what we're teaching and how we're talking about things in a classroom space, and then what's happening in the professional side across, of course, so many different functional areas and, and, you know, topics. And so we had some ideas at that point of where there might be some points that we'd want people to write about in terms of, you know, going back. And our first book is organized in sections and they speak to some of the topics that have been written about and explored for a long time, but we didn't feel there was sort of enough clear, up-to-date, easy-to-access literature that did this back and forth between the practitioner and the teaching side. So that's why we came up with the, the chapter structure, which really speaks to Not just sort of a, I call it a call and response style book where there's a, someone writes something and someone else responds to it. We really wanted this co-authoring thing to be a true partnership where they're talking about these things and then writing about them. So the chapter reads as a fluid discussion of the area. And then how, how the application part, like what would you do in a classroom? How would you talk about this? What are some key things you'd want to cover? And just really moving between that.

Dr. Jackie Clark [00:14:54]: informational, but then practice side of things.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:57]: The book is organized into 3 different parts. The first part is the contemporary responses to areas in the traditional curriculum of student affairs. The second part is institution-type considerations. And the third part is emerging and growing areas outside of the traditional curriculum. So because you've sandwiched this around the term curriculum, which means a lot of different things, I was hoping you could define for us, what does that mean to you as the editors of the Oh,

Dr. Jeannette Smith [00:15:22]: that's a great question. You know, I often, when I'm talking with my faculty counterparts and colleagues in academic affairs, and we talk about the word curriculum, in order to have shared language and to translate the work we do so it's understandable, I'll use the word curriculum when it comes to the different areas and departments that I support. And I'll say, Athletics, they have their own curriculum or learning outcomes that they want for student athletes, specific metrics and goals that they're trying to achieve around retention and credit accumulation and completion, and of course recruitment. And then there are specific activities and projects and hands-on experience that they're cultivating to ensure that students are moving through their curriculum to achieve certain goals. And so I break that down per area and I see it as a way for us to connect over the shared work of educating a student in a holistic way.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:16:30]: Jackie, do you have anything you wanna add on that?

Dr. Jackie Clark [00:16:31]: I'll just add that since this was our first attempt in co-editing and co-authoring a chapter and working on this book, we kind of wanted to ground it in some traditional aspects and then kind of move beyond that. So that's why The sections are, you know, the first 2 are really looking at the traditional curriculum, which I think in some ways, again, talking like, what does curriculum mean? I take that as the CAS standards. So in terms of master's level preparation, I think many programs, if not maybe most programs, are looking at those standards and then designing a curriculum around that. So there's some definite similarity out there. So we wanted to kind of re-explore some of those areas that maybe people, I don't know, take for granted or are maybe thinking in ways that may not be contemporary. Things are changing so quickly now. We just wanted to kind of do that as an update. But then we wanted to also have chapters that spoke to things that are maybe new, emerging, things that don't fit.

Dr. Jackie Clark [00:17:28]: And by don't fit, I take that on the side of designing and executing a graduate program that once you have your classes identified, there are still lots of things to talk about and lots of topics and professional practice issues that there's not really a direct connection in that classroom space explicitly. So we end up doing things like out-of-class conversations, and maybe a program has a seminar space where you can talk about other things. But that is one of those spaces where there's just a collection of things that we need to talk about that just aren't connected directly to a standard curriculum in the field. So thus the part 3 in our book.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:04]: When you think about how someone might read this book or approach this book, what would your recommendations be for how to engage with the content if you're a faculty member teaching a master's course, but also if you're a practitioner who's just getting some refresher into what's current in the literature.

Dr. Jackie Clark [00:18:19]: Yeah, I think the intent again was to cluster these sections together, but also every chapter is a standalone in terms of its usefulness. So if that particular topic, subject area fits into a class on the faculty side that you might be teaching and you want, uh, you know, a different voice or set of voices, then yes, please just use that chapter. Or if you want to build something around the book, that's also possible where you can use this as a starting point and you could pick a selection of things and add some additional literature, et cetera. So I know that again, on my end where I'm always looking, revising, searching for current new materials, this is the kind of book I wanted to be able to find that would have a lot of different topics and then I can deploy those across some different classes. So, that's how, you know, I looked at it. So, you can just do it as a single chapter, or you can look at it. And then, on the practitioner side, I think similar idea. We wanted the chapters structured so that there was instructive material there for practice.

Dr. Jackie Clark [00:19:23]: And so, hopefully, in the classroom, we're talking about that, but then the practitioners have some advice and some thought, you know, there's some thought given to that in the chapters too, in terms of how you could be talking about this outside the classroom when you're working with students, whether they're GAs or interns or practicum students or your employees.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:19:40]: Who would you say is the target audience?

Dr. Jeannette Smith [00:19:41]: Oh, I think our target audience is, is broader than we originally anticipated. I'd say for a practitioner thinking about part 2, institution-type considerations, I feel like that's such a great opportunity to pause and reflect on the type of institution that you're working at or aspire work at because it gives you an opportunity to tap into what could be good professional development opportunities to prepare you for that environment that is, can be very different than the environment where you became educated within the field or your chosen area or discipline. So I think that for practitioners, it's a great read. And I also think for making connections, one of my favorite parts of this experience was being in community with over 20 authors and band, generation, identity and affinity, geography. So you can reach out to these folks if you know nothing about working at a tribal college, but you have a student maybe who's transferring to one, or you're, you see a position that's open and you're interested. You can read about that and you could reach out to Karen Francis Begay. You could reach out to Mary Jo Tippin Konig Fox and, and learn more, right? Every, person who participated in building this did it from a place, a labor of love and giving back, but also these are real-life people who you can run into on your way to a session and have a conversation with to learn more. So I feel like in that way, it's a great book for practitioners.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:16]: I feel like in Part 2, each of these chapters could be their own book in some way as well. So just to give our listeners a bit of a preview of some of titles. We have Navigating the Ecology of a Small College, Historically Black Colleges and Universities Where History and Diversity Foreground the Student Experience, Tribal Colleges and Universities Where Native Students Can Simply Be, Beyond the 85%: Preparing Student Affairs Practitioners in Support of Graduate and Professional Studies. And then the final chapter in this section is The Forgotten Sector: Community and Technical Colleges. I know there's a lot of great leadership and literature around the community college and technical colleges, that have evolved in the last couple of years, but some of these other areas are really just not as talked about in our kind of student affairs dominant culture. So it's really great to see these highlighted as a primary section in your work. So as we think about the rest of the work that's in here, are there any particular chapters that you'd like to highlight or bring forward as someone listening might be considering picking this up as a purchase for their shelf?

Dr. Jeannette Smith [00:22:15]: Well, there are 20 chapters, which was not our original intent. And I think chapter Chapter 15 is Surviving in the Jungle: Institutional Politics in Student Affairs. It's Ryan Erskine and Rishi Suriyaram. It's a great chapter. We don't often openly talk about the politics of working with people. And so it's an opportunity, I think, to have that open conversation, but ground it in a chapter so that it doesn't come across as defensive and it's apolitical. It's neutral, but it allows you to at least ask the question and start to lift examples of how do we navigate those social and hidden agendas of folks on a, in a college campus, in an organization where you're trying to serve students, you're trying to support a mission, and you're navigating relationships, you're navigating history. Sometimes you're inheriting challenges that you know nothing about, weren't connected to, but you have to navigate through them.

Dr. Jeannette Smith [00:23:23]: So I really enjoy that we included chapter

Dr. Jackie Clark [00:23:26]: Yeah, it's so hard to pick, but I will, because they're all amazing. But I'll say personally, really lean into some of these just based on the areas I teach in within the program and where I'm always looking to improve. So really the chapter Teaching a More Complete History of Student Affairs: Cultivating Curiosity Through Hidden Narratives, very interesting take on how to talk about this history. I think all of our programs have a history piece in them about student affairs, and then maybe a history around higher education itself in the United States. So that was a very interesting chapter. Also this idea of hidden, hidden things. So it's been a while I've been talking about hidden curriculum, hidden narratives like this, again, trying to sort of decode campus life, whether that's for practitioners, how we work with students and trying to understand how they're perceiving the campus and how are we communicating things to them. So I love that chapter.

Dr. Jackie Clark [00:24:24]: Also really enjoy the counseling chapter. So that's counseling practices for today's higher education professionals responding to student need. And I feel like I'm translating, you know, regularly this idea of what do we learn from counseling and that professional area that we can deploy to do better in conversation with our students, to how do we communicate well, how do we understand who our students are. And like, you have to really understand your campus's demographics and population so that you can be aware and attend to things that they might be dealing with. And I think we're all aware of the fact, and my students learn, most of my students work full-time, so they do come with a lot of real application discussion to class, in our class space. But they agree with my assessment that no matter where you work, when students are working and talking with you, they're not going to just stick to the area of your expertise. They're probably going to talk about things across many different areas in their lives and whatever their stresses and concerns and challenges are. So we do have to be able to flex and respond to that.

Dr. Jackie Clark [00:25:29]: And sometimes even if that's just giving them resources, but the listening skills, the things that we pull from counseling on how to do that well. And if you hear certain things that might require maybe a little more investigation, how to do those things. So those are some favorites. And then just shout out to the entire institutional type, particularly the tribal college chapter, since I do teach both institutional type conversations and history. That chapter was really more explanatory to me and more historically interesting than some of the other things I'd found out there to talk about the history and evolution of tribal colleges. And again, probably of all the things, my students are the least knowledgeable of those institutions and how they have a very specific place in our system. So those are my faves. Some of my faves, but they're all my faves.

Dr. Jackie Clark [00:26:17]: What can I say?

Dr. Jeannette Smith [00:26:18]: Just one more shout out to Supervised Practice with Kathryn Bender and Kendall Jester, because we don't talk enough about supervision and the art of supervision and being a stewardship of people. And sometimes we promote people because that's the only path to recognition or compensation increase and promotion is to make them supervise people. Not everybody wants to supervise people. It's hard. It's a full-time job all on its own. And so having to lift that conversation is, uh, really special as well.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:48]: There's so much richness in this book. You could shout out every chapter author for sure, but kind of thinking about the work as a whole, what are you both most proud of, of delivering this to our profession?

Dr. Jackie Clark [00:26:59]: Actually, I'm proud and also just humbled by how many people responded to our request for proposals, for coming up with interesting ideas. We gave some direction, but we, some of those chapters that came outta the merging section, we wanted people to also submit things to us that we weren't asking for. We wanna see what people want. What are you interested in writing about? What do you think is a critical area that needs to be discussed? So we had just such a wonderful response, and I thought, there's always that fear when you start a project that no one will respond and you'll be like, okay, I guess my idea isn't very interesting. But we got a great response. And then it was just, I will take a minute to shout out NASPA as a publisher because such an incredible partnership and helping us through the process. And that's my first time through a book of any kind, and I have worked with other publishers since, and I was spoiled by my NASPA experience because it was so good, so well organized, so responsive. And that is not necessarily how everyone does this in the publishing world, apparently.

Dr. Jackie Clark [00:28:01]: So yes, I'm just super excited and glad that people responded so positively.

Dr. Jeannette Smith [00:28:06]: Ditto everything Jackie said, especially the part about NASPA. And it's such an honor. It was very humbling that so many people were willing to spend time and energy pulling this together. This book would not exist without all of these people. And I think that I'm really proud of us coming together and being in community with one another, meeting deadlines, and working on this for well over a year and sticking with it. Through that process, life happened. People moved jobs. People had babies.

Dr. Jeannette Smith [00:28:37]: There was so much life that was also happening throughout that time as we pulled it together. And I'm proud of all of us for being able to create this.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:46]: I'll give a shout out to Melissa Dane, who's with NASPA. She runs all of the publishing and things like the Leadership Exchange, as well as the books that come out through NASPA. And I think she's an incredible, talented, unsung hero in our profession. She's literally working behind the scenes and, and no one really kind of sees her on the front of the stage, but all of her work has produced a body of literature for our profession, which will be an important part of our history.

Dr. Jeannette Smith [00:29:10]: She is brilliant. Like, talk about leaving a legacy at, at— 100%.

Dr. Jackie Clark [00:29:15]: I'm

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:15]: going to go ahead and transition us into our themed questions for the season. Again, this season we're focusing on enhancing the career pathways and wellbeing of student affairs professionals. Your book does a wonderful job of touching on the pathways through the types of institutions, but also there's some important wellbeing work in there. So I've got 2 questions for you. The first one is, what's one easy thing and one hard thing that a supervisor can do to enhance the career pathway of the people that they're charged with leading?

Dr. Jeannette Smith [00:29:44]: I would say the easy and the hard thing for me can sometimes be bound up in the same action, and that is identifying and dedicating resources to support professional development. And those resources include time and money.

Dr. Jackie Clark [00:30:00]: Yeah, when I think about supervising early career or GAs or students in this process, and then I'm again on the end of it where I'm helping students set up these experiences and then communicating with those supervisors and kind of getting this from that angle, I think the easy thing, but also the hard thing, is having time for conversation, spending time moving from that supervisor maybe more into a little bit of the mentorship piece. So really talking with these new professionals or people who are, you know, just students going through this work about their experience and talking with them about what they're interested in and just helping them develop a better understanding, not just of the sort of ins and outs of the daily operations, but to helping them identify what's gonna be their career path. I mean, it's the biggest challenge in some ways with my students who, again, you know, many of them work full-time in student affairs, but tend to be, you know, newish professionals, and they're really struggling to decide kind of, we have so many areas and so many possibilities. How do I narrow that down? So we do, you know, a lot of discussion around discernment and the kind of work it is and what kind of spaces you will be in and, you know, how you'll help students. Some love the one-on-one, some love the big event planning and the, you know, the excitement of things like orientation. So I think back to, you know, being a supervisor and doing this talking around career, it's just being able to share your knowledge and be invested in that student. So I guess that is easy and that is hard. And I guess I will lean toward the hard thing to do with what Jeanette said regarding resources.

Dr. Jackie Clark [00:31:34]: I mean, coming out of an institution, I'm the product of a small, you know, liberal arts institution, and here I am doing a master's program here, which is a little— not that many that are situated at small institutions. We have resource challenges. So, helping them understand how to build a career and thrive, even when some of those resources may or may not be available. So, again, going a little bit further than that to do what Jeanette actually did when she was supervising students in my program, which is this, really paying attention to them and really helping them do some discernment, and then really doing that other piece, finding spaces for them to do professional development, to experience things. That's just huge. It definitely shows. Because again, I'm sure anyone who's teaching understands the end, the product out of that is just qualitatively different from the students who have a supervisor that works from that kind of paradigm and ones that end up having, you know, we all have students who end up with supervisors that just for various reasons don't really spend enough time with them at all. So they get through the experience, but really don't get as much out of it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:37]: And our second question, what might you want vice presidents for student affairs to consider regarding the holistic wellbeing of student affairs professionals that perhaps they're not already thinking about?

Dr. Jeannette Smith [00:32:47]: Ooh, that's a big question.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:52]: And Jeanette, since you're occupying that seat, it's been interesting to hear responses because we've interviewed folks this season who are in the VPSA seat and folks who are not. And so to hear that perspective from all aspects of an organization, I think is an important piece of data.

Dr. Jeannette Smith [00:33:06]: I feel like that's a whole book in and of itself. A few things. I think communication is really important. I think transparency is really important. Clear expectations. One thing that we do in our division is the division creates expectations of me, I have expectations of them, and then they have expectations of each other. And we revisit those every year, and we spend maybe 2 hours on it at the beginning of the year. I print them out, and then I bring them to every division meeting.

Dr. Jeannette Smith [00:33:35]: And I think that's really important so that when we're navigating a challenge, we can bring it back to how are we upholding these expectations, where did we miss the mark, and how can we work together to course correct? And support one another. So being open around that communication piece of what we expect of one another and being in agreement of this is how we wanna show up for each other and for our students is really important to me. The holistic piece is for me recognizing that we all have lives and this is a piece of that life. And so being responsive and having grace for when other pieces of our lives need to take priority. is really important to me. And leading from a place of kindness is really important as well. So those are just a few things I would share that I think can work for some folks when it comes to sitting in this seat and trying your best to prioritize holistic wellbeing and a positive, healthy work environment. I guess one more thing I would say is owning up to when you make a mistake and doing actual tangible work and action steps to repair the harm.

Dr. Jeannette Smith [00:34:44]: I think that's really important. So anytime I've made a mistake that is not just like a, oh, there's a typo here, but I mean a true decision that had a negative impact, being able to say, I take ownership, I did this, and I apologize for the harm that was caused, and here's how we're going to remedy this, is really important as well.

Dr. Jackie Clark [00:35:07]: Wow, Jeanette, love that. Yeah. I would speak to this question around, again, the holistic piece, specifically around recognizing the emotional impact of this work. And I think, at least, again, being at a somewhat resource-challenged institution where our offices aren't staffed with large numbers of staff, some of our offices have 2 staff. And so the pressure on them is immense to manage huge critical functions like financial aid and student life and activities. And So, there's a lot of pressure with that, and obviously, people do the work because they love it, but we need more recognition of that emotional piece of how difficult the work is sometimes, and we don't want to forget to say thank you. And I understand that when leadership is pulled in a million directions and we're all— our daily is very just a responsive career, there's always things coming at us, you can kind of forget, and I think that I've heard from some of them, I just felt recognized. I just wanna feel understood, that people understand what I'm doing in this work and appreciate it and that kind of a thing.

Dr. Jackie Clark [00:36:13]: So, I think that goes a long way. You know, money's important, but I think we all know the deal where people, they leave places and they leave jobs often just because of how they perceive how they're treated. So, that is just really, really critical. And to that point, we have a new provost here. So, not student affairs strictly, but he came in and started really with his first week talking about this book by Donna Hicks called Dignity. And there's a second book about dignity and leadership. And he was very attuned to this idea that we need to preserve the dignity while we're working with everybody that we work with. And that sort of speaks to that, what you were saying, Jeanette, around recognizing that people have lives and things happen and we have to work with understanding and grace around some things.

Dr. Jackie Clark [00:37:02]: And so, we all theoretically read the book. It was amazing. And it's a list of 10 tenets of protecting and honoring people's dignity. And then, there's 10 violations of dignity. And so, everything he does, and he brings it up obviously all the time because he's talking about it in the context of how we work. Like, we don't call people out in meetings in ways that would violate their dignity. Like, we want to give people the benefit of the doubt. And so, again, that speak, like Jeanette's using the word kindness and respect and dignity.

Dr. Jackie Clark [00:37:35]: And I think it's already in 3 months changing the campus culture here, which is not easy to do. So I'm glad. I think it's, you know, a great way to go about our work. And so I'm pulling that into my classroom spaces too.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:49]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:37:56]: Thanks, Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world, and there's a ton of things happening. On November 10th, 2026, there is a new member briefing on Student Organizations and Campus Speech: Legal Considerations for Student Affairs. As student organizations engage in campus dialogue, advocacy, events, and other forms of expression, student affairs professionals navigate an increasingly complex range of legal and institutional considerations. This briefing will bring together legal perspectives from the National Association of College and University Attorneys, to explore how free speech and academic freedom and academic freedom consideration intersect with student organizations and what these issues mean for student affairs practice. Participants will gain timely insights into the legal landscape and considerations for supporting and advising student organizations during the fall semester. If this member briefing sounds like something that you'd be interested in, go to learning.naspa.org/memberbriefings. To learn more and to sign up today.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:38:56]: The Leadership Educator Institute is happening December 14th to 16th of 2026 in Louisville, Kentucky. This is a partnership between NASPA, ACPA College Student Educators International, and the National Clearinghouse for Leadership Programs. LEI provides a unique opportunity for all professional levels within our field to engage in critical dialogue to promote promote positive, sustainable change on their campuses. The regular registration deadline is going to be closing on November 13th, 2026. If you go to events.naspa.org, you can learn more. Another professional development opportunity that is coming up very soon is the European Conference for Student Affairs and Services 2026 conference that is happening November 11th through the 13th in Seville. NASPA and IUKA, which is the European University College Association, are proud to announce the 8th Annual European Conference for Student Affairs and Services that'll be held in Seville, Spain. This is a great opportunity to be able to meet with other student affairs professionals from all over the world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:40:05]: And at this conference, you'll be provided with education, training, resources, and support to be able to, to be able to engage with your students, and with other professionals in a much deeper way. This year's focus of the conference is really situating student affairs and services as not operating on the margins of higher education, but at its core. As institutions face rising demands around student mental health, international mobility, digital transformation, and post-pandemic engagement, the professionals like yourself who shape the everyday student experience and campus life have to be able to be recognized, as integral to the educational mission itself. Thus, this conference is going to be examining what it means to center student affairs and services within the higher education ecosystem, not as auxiliary support, but as a structural pillar that connects academic success, student wellbeing, institutional strategy, and societal responsibility. From rethinking how we prepare globally fluent professionals to modernizing engagement models on campuses that encourage more participation to embedding wellbeing as a shared institutional commitment. This conference asks how we move student affairs from the periphery to the center of higher education decision-making. Every year at the end of October is Red Ribbon Week on campuses promoting the importance of living a drug-free lifestyle. And as always, this year there will be another PSA contest that that colleges are being challenged to enter for yourself.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:41:45]: The Campus PSA Contest promotes the importance of preventing illicit drug use and legal drug misuse among college students. And as a college, you're being challenged to be able to create and submit a 30 to 60-second video PSA showcasing your campus's commitment to a healthy, drug-free lifestyle. You could submit your entry from September 8th to November 9th, 2026. So you still have some time to be able to enter and be able to showcase your campus. Find out more by going to campusdrugprevention.gov/psacontest. Finally, there's a great new article in the Leadership Exchange called Engaging the Student Affairs Workforce: The Link Between Staff Satisfaction and Student Success. This article fits really well into our theme this season, and one of the authors is being asked to potentially come on to a future episode to talk about the work that they did. This article really delves deeper into what you and I can do to be able to engage with others in our own offices and beyond, and to create even more staff satisfaction and student success.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:43:03]: If you've never gone to the Leadership Exchange, all you have to do is go onto the NASPA website under publications. And as a NASPA member, you have full access to the Leadership Exchange and you can read that in the fall 2026 issue. Every week we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to participate able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the, the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself, where do you fit? Where do you want to give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that, or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now. now to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:44:30]: Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:44:42]: Chris, thank you so much for keeping us informed on what's going on in and around NASPA. And Jackie and Jeanette, we have reached our lightning round where we get to know a little bit more about you. Are you both ready to go?

Dr. Jackie Clark [00:44:54]: I think so.

Dr. Jeannette Smith [00:44:55]: Yes.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:44:56]: All right, let's do this. Question 1, if you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

Dr. Jackie Clark [00:45:02]: I'm gonna go with Madonna's Keep It Together.

Dr. Jeannette Smith [00:45:05]: I'm gonna go with Lauryn Hill, anything, anything by Lauryn Hill.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:11]: Number 2, when you were 5 years old, what did you want to be when you grew up?

Dr. Jackie Clark [00:45:15]: Oh, a veterinarian.

Dr. Jeannette Smith [00:45:16]: I wanted to work in advertising like Angela on Who's the

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:20]: Number 3, who's your most influential professional mentor?

Dr. Jackie Clark [00:45:23]: I'm gonna have to have 2. One I mentioned earlier, Donnie Morgan, my Dean of Students as an undergrad who got me into the field basically. And most recently in my doctoral program, Dr. Laura Dean, who's retired faculty from University of Georgia.

Dr. Jeannette Smith [00:45:37]: I don't have just one. I'm gonna say Rita Layden, Rachel Solemsaas, Sharon Worm, Alzaida Timpton, Wendy Endress, Shannon Ellis, Jen Williams Woods, and Amanda Walker Richardson.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:49]: Number 4, and I'll preface this by saying you can say your own book, your essential student affairs read.

Dr. Jackie Clark [00:45:55]: Oh my gosh. Well, yes, I do, you know, appreciate our, the book we worked on, but also I have to say I am obsessed with anything that Julie Park writes out of University of Maryland. I use her Race on Campus book and her brand new book, Race, Class, and Affirmative Action in one of my courses. And it's just, her work is amazing.

Dr. Jeannette Smith [00:46:15]: I love to read. I'm looking at my bookshelf and trying to pick one is very hard, but there is a very thick text from my graduate program on law and policy that just speaks to me. I don't know what it is, but I absolutely love it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:31]: Number 5, the best TV show you've been binging lately.

Dr. Jackie Clark [00:46:34]: Oh, Great British Baking Show.

Dr. Jeannette Smith [00:46:36]: Same. Great British Bake Off.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:39]: So here in the UK, they do call it just Bake Off. And most of my British friends are completely aghast when I say it's called Great British Baking Show in America. It freaks them all out. Number 6, the podcast you spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

Dr. Jackie Clark [00:46:52]: I listen to a lot of podcasts. That's why I'm slightly hesitated a bit, but probably I like humor. So there's one called Smoosh Reads Reddit Stories. They're reading Reddit threads and they're talking about it with a team of 3 people. And then a lot of them are sort of like, am I the you know what? And then the people will keep posting updates. So it kind of reads like a story at the end of the day, and then you have to decide whether you think the Reddit— the individual was in the right or in the wrong. So, it's very fun.

Dr. Jeannette Smith [00:47:22]: I commute to work about 45 to 50 minutes in the car each way, and I love a podcast. I listen to a lot of podcasts. I'd say my 2 tops right now are NPR's Spooked and I Am Mo, Michelle Obama.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:47:38]: Finally, number 7, any shoutouts you'd like to give, personal or professional?

Dr. Jackie Clark [00:47:42]: Yes. I'll shout out to one individual, my assistant director. Her name's Dr. Carrie Graham in the department, which as of last year, we are an official actual department at the university, Leadership in Higher Education. And she has just been an invaluable person to the work that we do. And then secondly, a couple years ago, I had an amazing time in a National Endowment for the Humanities higher ed history seminar. summer program. And every single person in that program, we stay in touch.

Dr. Jackie Clark [00:48:12]: It was an incredible experience. And they have just become colleagues, mentors, just amazing people doing things from university librarians to higher ed folk and even folks who just teach in history. So it was a cool group.

Dr. Jeannette Smith [00:48:27]: I'll shout out my mentor, Dr. Joanne Haysbert, my professional colleagues mentor, Paul Mitchell and Adonis Hughes, the president who hired me, James Burge, and our brand new president here, the 13th president of MCLA, is Dr. Diana Rogers Atkinson. She's fabulous. And I'll also lift up the other Dr. Smith, my spouse, who is 110% supportive in our family.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:48:52]: And once again, the book is Student Affairs Professional Preparation: A Scholar-Practitioner Guide to Contemporary Topics. Topics by Jacque Clark, Jeanette Smith, and Associates. Now, if any of our listeners would like to reach you after this episode becomes live, how can they find you?

Dr. Jackie Clark [00:49:07]: You can reach me at my university address. That'd be [email protected].

Dr. Jeannette Smith [00:49:16]: You can reach me on LinkedIn. My only request is that you attach a message to your request so I know you're a real live person.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:49:26]: Thank you both so very much for sharing your voices with us today.

Dr. Jackie Clark [00:49:30]: Thank you, Jill.

Dr. Jeannette Smith [00:49:31]: Thanks, Jill. This has been so fun.

Dr. Jackie Clark [00:49:34]: Amazing.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:49:36]: This has been an episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field brought to you by NASPA. This show is only made possible because of you, our listeners and our members. We continue to be so grateful that you choose to spend your time with us season after season. If you'd like to reach us here at the show, you can email us at [email protected] or find me on LinkedIn by searching for Dr. Jill L. Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. If you're interested in appearing on the show yourself, please do contact us.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:50:04]: We'd love it if you spend a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening from now. It really does help us in the student affairs community, as well as the podcasting community to help our show grow. This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton— that's me— produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan-Flint and New York University London for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

In the latest episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field, host Dr. Jill Creighton welcomes Dr. Hollie Chessman for a timely and essential conversation on the wellbeing and career pathways of student affairs professionals. As the field continues to encounter mounting pressures—from student needs to institutional demands—this episode delivers both a candid look at the challenges and practical pathways forward. If you're a higher education professional or anyone invested in cultivating thriving environments on campus, this is a conversation not to miss.

Dr. Hollie Chessman brings invaluable expertise from two decades in student affairs as well as her research focused on wellbeing in the profession. Reflecting on her own journey—transitioning from housing and student activities roles to policy and research in D.C.—she shares unique insights into why so many early- and mid-career professionals struggle with burnout and how institutional practices impact wellbeing.

Key findings from Dr. Hollie Chessman's research highlight that professionals who remain in student affairs for 12 years or more report significantly higher wellbeing than those newer to the field. This invites an important question: What supports, structures, and cultures keep professionals thriving in the long term? The episode discusses how factors such as autonomy at work, positive relationships, sense of purpose, salary, and even perceived health all predict a more positive work experience.

Dr. Jill Creighton and Dr. Hollie Chessman stress that institutions bear real responsibility. Wellbeing is not just an individual's burden; it is shaped by the systems, policies, and leadership present on campus. They urge supervisors and senior leaders to engage in honest assessment of staff wellbeing, support career development conversations, and critically examine organizational cultures that may be contributing to stress and dissatisfaction.

The conversation also delves into the broader context—how post-pandemic realities, changing student needs, and evolving workplace norms have affected wellbeing in the field. The episode is rich with encouragement for graduate students, supervisors, and VPSAs alike, offering both easy wins and complex challenges that, when addressed, can make a lasting impact.

For anyone seeking actionable insights and inspiration to create a healthier, more supportive environment for student affairs professionals, listening to this episode is a must. Tune in to gain a deeper understanding of the latest research and practical strategies that can advance wellbeing on your campus today!

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:01]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed professionals wherever you happen to be. This is Season 15, Enhancing the Career Pathways and Well-Being of Student Affairs Professionals. I'm Dr. Jill Creighton, she/her/hers, your SA Voices from the Field host. Welcome back to our next episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field. Today, I'm pleased to welcome Dr. Holly M.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:34]: Chessman, who is currently the Director for Retreat and Evaluation Services at the Association for Community College Trustees in Washington, D.C. She joined ACCT in August of 2026 after almost 9 years as Director and Principal Program Officer and as the resident college student mental health and wellbeing expert at the American Council on Education, or ACE. Dr. Chessman joined ACE in December 2017, bringing almost 20 years of professional experience in higher education. Prior to her current role at CCT, she was the Director of Research and Projects at the Council of Independent Colleges and a postdoctoral associate at ACE. She earned her PhD from George Mason University in 2015, prior to which she spent 17 years as a student affairs professional serving in various roles and institutions, including 10 years in housing and residence life. Her primary interests include college student mental health and wellbeing, student affairs professionals' wellbeing, graduate student choice, and organizational change and leadership. I'm really thrilled to talk to Holly today about her research about wellbeing and student affairs professionals.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:37]: Holly, welcome to SA Voices. Hi, Jill. It's great to be here. Thanks for inviting me. You've got so many great things to talk about today regarding the wellbeing of student affairs professionals. You've done some really great research in this area, and I'm looking forward to digging into some of that detail. But you are one of our colleagues who started in student affairs and now are working in more of an education-adjacent role in the policy and advocacy sphere in DC. And I think our listeners would really love to know how you made that transition and how you got to your current seat.

Dr. Hollie Chessman [00:02:08]: Absolutely. I'd be happy to talk about that. So I spent 17 years in student affairs. During my— I went to undergrad and got my undergraduate degree and then had an opportunity for an internship in our new campus recreation center that I helped run the referendum for as an undergraduate, and it paid for my graduate school. So I said, I'm going to go to grad school at it because I didn't want to sub because I graduated in December. I was going to be a K-12 English speech and journalism teacher. So I went to get my undergrad, graduated, and started working in residence life at Tulane University. And then I hopped from Tulane to Ohio at Lake Erie College as the director of campus involvement.

Dr. Hollie Chessman [00:02:47]: And then Hurricane Katrina hit New Orleans, and I had to go back to New Orleans to give back to the city that had given so much to me. So I went back and took a job at Loyola University where I was associate director of co-curricular programs, where I did student activities on the programming board and did other special projects for the Vice President of Affairs. And then I had an opportunity to work with my mentor at George Mason University. And also George Mason University had a PhD program. And so after some consideration, I applied for a job at George Mason and became the Associate Director of Residence Life at George Mason, where I worked full-time and also worked on my PhD. And that was a pretty big undertaking. And those of us who have done that can pretty much testify that you probably wouldn't recommend working full-time and working on your PhD, but sometimes that's the only way that we can afford to go to school. And so—

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:36]: I'll co-sign that. I did the same thing. It was a journey.

Dr. Hollie Chessman [00:03:39]: It was a journey, right? It's like you can get a quote unquote free PhD, but it comes at a pretty significant cost. So 5 years, basically with no nights or weekends to do much of anything. And so I graduated in 2015. And during my time working at George Mason, I learned that I really didn't want to be a vice president of student affairs or a senior student affairs officer. That was my initial goal. for getting the PhD. And I said, I don't think this is for me. I've been on call for 6 years dealing with fire, flood, blood, and drugs.

Dr. Hollie Chessman [00:04:08]: And I said, you know, I don't want to do that for the rest of my professional career, 'cause guys, residents of student affairs get called for the really serious stuff. And so I decided to look at other opportunities and my chair of my dissertation and a great friend and colleague, Jamie Lester, basically said, hey, there's this, this, this, assistantship opened up at American Council on Education, and it's a 9-month opportunity to do a postdoc with them. What do you think about applying? And I applied and I received it. And, um, I did 9 months at ACE, and then I had to find a job. And I ended up going to the Council of Independent Colleges for about almost 2 years. I ended up not being a fan of being locked in an office with spreadsheets all day. I'm an extrovert, so I found that being a research department of one was not, was not my forte. And then ACE had an opportunity that opened back up and went back to ACE to work on building out a portfolio of work on college student mental health and ended up broadening that to campus mental health because our vice president of research at the time felt like my experience with the student affairs and wellbeing work that I had done in my dissertation and my work with college students and their, and working in residence life for 10 years really gave me a good sort of foundation and to sort of build that work out at ACE for college presidents.

Dr. Hollie Chessman [00:05:27]: And so that's what I did. And just recently I left ACE and I came to the Association for Community College Trustees, and I've been here about 4 weeks.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:34]: Well, I'll give a shout out to Jonathan Fansmith, who we've had on the podcast a couple of times, one of Holly's former colleagues at ACE. And then Holly, can you tell us a little bit about what your current organization does?

Dr. Hollie Chessman [00:05:45]: Sure. So the Association for Community College Trustees is a membership organization that helps community college trustees And they work— our office in particular works with community college trustees and with presidents to build a good, strong relationship, good governance relationship, so that they can really sort of steward our really important institutions of community colleges. And good governance really serves a significant portion of our country's students. And so having good governance really gives those opportunities to our students. Thank you. gives great opportunity for those who are, who are starting at community colleges and looking to further their credentials, either through certificate or through degree.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:27]: I think that brings us back to the core of the conversation today, which is you've spent a lot of your career supporting others or figuring out how others can be supported in the higher education sphere. And your research, when you did your doctorate, was really centered on the wellbeing of student affairs professionals. That comes in a couple of different dimensions, but that was both a doctoral dissertation and an article in the Journal of Student Affairs Research and Practice, or JSARP for short, which is the NASPA journal that is peer-reviewed and academically rigorous. So it's always, I think, a huge win to get an article published in JSARP. That one is a big one for us. But I wanted to talk to you about that research and more specifically around what we learned and how that's still relevant, because it's been a couple of years since the research was done. But the article you can find is called Student Affairs Professionals' Well-Being and Work Quality. If you want to go read the full article, it is published from January 2021.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:21]: one's special edition of JSARP. But Holly, can you tell us what prompted you to do research on the wellbeing work quality components of student affairs professionals?

Dr. Hollie Chessman [00:07:31]: Sure. So during my time in student affairs, 17-ish years that I spent in student affairs, I noticed younger professionals burning out more quickly. I mean, you probably experienced this as a young student affairs professional as well, when you're wearing multiple hats and you're doing resident advisor training and RD training, and you're working 12 to 18 hour days for where you're on call and you don't have an opportunity to like really recharge until you gotta get up and go to work the next morning. I was noticing a lot of issues around some of our younger colleagues in the field and it was burnout was sort of the thing. But one of the things that I learned in my time at George Mason, which had a really big focus on wellbeing, they have a Center for Wellbeing at George Mason. They did an annual conference on wellbeing. What I learned about wellbeing in particular, I felt like was more applicable to what it was that we were looking at. Burnout is such an easy way to sort of talk about the issue.

Dr. Hollie Chessman [00:08:30]: And I've done work with folks who've done work on burnout, but I think wellbeing in particular, it's like, are you having more positive than negative? There's these different facets of wellbeing, like purpose and meaning, as well as engagement and some of these other core concepts that really sort of speak to why someone has a positive functioning and experience. And so that is, in my mind, directly related work quality. And so that was sort of one of the things I needed. I had an independent variable and I needed a dependent variable, but I needed independent variables. And one of those independent variables was our Work-Related Quality of Life Scale. And it was a validated instrument. And so when I created the instrument, I combined the Brief Inventory on Thriving, which was the sort of a wellbeing piece of the assessment, as well as the Work-Related Quality of Life Scale. And then asked some demographic questions and a question related to health.

Dr. Hollie Chessman [00:09:20]: And I put together a survey based on a framework that I had and fielded it. And I had over 2,200 responses in that survey. So to me, I was worried about having enough power in my sample to run the statistical analysis. And then when, so I was like, I put it in the field and I sat on my computer and I watched, you know, it was SurveyMonkey and I watched the SurveyMonkey count, you know, and I was like, I need 500, I need 500. And what ended up happening is it, it just ticked up and it kept ticking up and it kept ticking up. And then so For me, I think it really spoke to the need of this research in the field. People were more than willing to sit and spend the 10-ish minutes that it took to take the survey and be pretty— reveal some potentially some more vulnerable things about how they were feeling about their lives in that moment. And I'm grateful for all the folks that ended up taking the survey and sharing it with their colleagues to take, because it ended up being, I think, one of the first baseline studies for student affairs and their wellbeing.

Dr. Hollie Chessman [00:10:19]: And while the data was collected in 2015, I think it's still relevant as it creates that baseline. And I use it when I give presentations now, when people, when we do, like I do presentations to different institutions that want to talk about, or maybe better understand the wellbeing of their student affairs department. And we can look at, okay, if we can see how people confidentially are sort of mapping out and what the, how people are feeling in the terms of their wellbeing department or within the larger institutional context. So it ends up being a good conversation starter to think about, well, what can we be doing to better improve our wellbeing of our student affairs professionals, because it is within the institutional control to help with that. Because systems are what impact wellbeing. It's not just the individual that needs to do the work, right? It's the institutions that have to sort of think about the systems and how our systems can better support our professionals on campus.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:11]: I appreciate you talking about it as a baseline measurement. And I think it's great to have benchmarked where we were as a field in 2015, before pandemic, before, you know, work from home came into our lives, before a number of other things. So there are things that universities are doing now to better support student affairs professionals, but some of this hasn't changed at all. And so it's curious. I'm wondering if you've done any follow-up research, or are you planning to run the survey again?

Dr. Hollie Chessman [00:11:35]: Follow-up research, but I did work with a doc student at Plymouth State University. She used my, some of my research as sort of a foundation, a stepping off foundational point to sort of examine the wellbeing of students and mental health. of student affairs professionals after the pandemic. And so she did some work on that and was able to sort of compare some of what she was able to find against what I was able to find so that she was able to sort of present that information to a broader audience. And ironically, she reached out to me on LinkedIn a couple weeks ago, and unfortunately she's actually decided to leave the field of student affairs. And so it was sort of ironic twist where she's like, now I am one of those people that are leaving the field because the field isn't serving me in the way that it used to, unfortunately.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:12:22]: You talk about this in the frameworks of subjective wellbeing and psychological wellbeing, and those 2 pieces of the puzzle really creating the formula for if the profession is thriving or not thriving. I think we've heard a lot about the wellbeing of student affairs professionals in the last several years. Some of the themes continue to be the same in that we're all holding a lot on behalf of our students. And we're often asked on behalf of an institution to continue to hold more and more and more. And the needs of students have changed, I think, in the last 10 years as well. So can you talk about the subjective wellbeing component and the psychological wellbeing component and how those kind of converge to create the information and environment that we think we need for thriving?

Dr. Hollie Chessman [00:13:04]: Subjective wellbeing is whether or not you feel positive or negative. It's associated with positive and negative affect. And it really relates to how am I feeling about my life right now? Am I sad? satisfied with my life right now? And then thinking about the different domains like your work and your life and your relationships and some of the other pieces that make up the subjective pieces of wellbeing, how are those actually showing up in your day-to-day life and experience? And that shows up in work in particular as the domain in the subjective wellbeing is what we really focused on for my work in JSARP. And then the psychological wellbeing, which is a little bit, it's a little bit more of a quantitative measurement, if you will. It's not as much as saying, Oh, I feel good or I feel bad. Well, how is your autonomy? Do you feel like you can make decisions on your own? Do you feel like you have agency in your job, in your work, in your life? Do you feel like you understand your environment? Do you have environmental mastery? Do you feel like you get what it is that you have to be doing to be successful in your environment, feel good in your environment? Do you have positive relationships with others, whether that's in your home life or your work life? Do you feel like you have a greater sense of purpose when you come to work? And when you do this work, do you feel a greater sense of purpose about what you are doing, or do you feel like you're contributing to something greater than yourself? And then whether you're feeling like you're personally growing or not, and whether or not you've gotten to a place of self-acceptance around this is, I feel like I'm right where I need to be and I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing in this very moment. And so there's not a lot of dissonance about where you are and what you're doing. And so all that sort of, so those 2 concepts sort of form and basically they measure things like life satisfaction and positive feelings and things, optimism and that sort of a thing.

Dr. Hollie Chessman [00:14:50]: It kind of all comes together and assesses well-being. And because at the time that I wrote this piece, there wasn't the Coalition for Well-Being. We didn't have a well-being definition for higher education. So it was sort of like I needed to come up with something. And so I pulled from a lot of different research, a lot of it Diener. Ed Diener does a lot of work on well-being. I pulled a lot of stuff from Ed Diener and his work. And then some of the other conversations I was having around well-being at George Mason as well.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:16]: You also talk about the Brief Inventory on Thriving in your work, or BIT for short. When I first read the article, I went BIT. To me, that means Behavior Intervention Team.

Dr. Hollie Chessman [00:15:26]: Yeah. And when I started at Mason, we had the BIT, and I was like, what? That's the Brief Inventory of Thriving. And like, no, that's not what it is.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:34]: But the Brief Inventory on Thriving is a psychological instrument that was developed by Diener. As you mentioned Diener as an author previously, that was one of the most important components in designing the research. But what you brought forward was an analysis that looked at the thriving of professionals at various levels in the profession. Can you tell us what you found?

Dr. Hollie Chessman [00:15:55]: Yeah. Super interesting. So one of the things that I found is that different groups of student affairs professionals measured differently. And there was, you know, of course it's different, but then there was statistical significance in the difference. And so that's when, you know, like, oh wow, there is actually a difference that's going on here. And so basically one of the things I found that people who are in the field 11 or less years were statistically significantly different in their wellbeing score than people who are in the field 12 or more years. And so the longer people have been in the field, the higher their wellbeing. It's almost, you know, 2.72 points higher if you'd been in the field 12 or so years.

Dr. Hollie Chessman [00:16:40]: And so part of what, you know, made me think was thinking about it. I didn't write this in my article because I didn't have any proof about it, but people who stay in the field of student affairs for 12 or more years are probably finding some of the things we talked about in the subjective wellbeing. They're feeling that self-acceptance and that environmental mastery and some of the things that come along with being in a workplace or a work environment that contribute to wellbeing. So, that was one of the things that I found. So, the ANOVA was really interesting because you could— there was a difference between those in the field 4 years or less and those in the field for 5 or 11 years, but those 2 were not statistically different from each other, but they were statistically significantly different from the 12+ years.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:19]: You referenced ANOVA. And so, for our listeners who haven't done statistical analysis courses in a while, that's an acronym that stands for analysis of variance, which is how we measure 2 variables against each other to see if there's any information that tells us, yes, this is statistically significant in terms of difference between types of groups. So Holly's just referencing something from math class, basically.

Dr. Hollie Chessman [00:17:40]: Thank you. It's been a hot minute since my stats class, so I appreciate the tutorial.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:45]: Same, same.

Dr. Hollie Chessman [00:17:47]: Like, I ran these things. You'd have to ask if I had to run them again, I would, you know, it'd take me probably like a, you know, a couple days to remember how to do all of that. But one of the other things I think that was really interesting in the— that I found in the work was that there was some difference too between entry versus chief student affairs level. So basically chief student affairs officers' wellbeing scores were almost 4 points higher than those who were entry level. And there was statistically significant differences among the entry level, the mid-level, which my sample size for the mid-level was huge because student affairs is that known triangle, right? Where you've got this in the middle with a lot of mid-level folks. And then senior level, which is like your associate deans and your AVPs. And then you've got your chief student affairs officers, which were like 43.39 compared to 38. So it was a huge difference between the entry-level folks and the chief student affairs officer folks and their wellbeing scores.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:50]: What do you attribute that to?

Dr. Hollie Chessman [00:18:51]: I think people who are vice presidents of student affairs, I think it goes back to what we talked, some of what we talked about around the subjective and psychological wellbeing. I think there is a lot of agency and autonomy in a vice president of student affairs role versus an entry-level person's role. I think there's a lot more environmental mastery. I mean, as a chief student affairs officer, you basically understand how colleges and universities function. You understand how the pieces and parts sort of make the engine run. Have to have positive working relationships with others, because I think it's very difficult to get to the level of a student senior-level VP to not have a good positive working relationship, I think. And I would imagine, and if I had talked to VPSAs, I probably would've heard some of them talking about, you know, student affairs being a calling for them, right? That, that was their purpose. They felt like it gave them a sense of purpose in their life.

Dr. Hollie Chessman [00:19:48]: And so I think it goes back to some of that subjective and psychological wellbeing components where you see Folks in the position, the higher-up positions have a lot more of those factors in their court than you may have in your, as an entry-level student affairs professional, because so many of us got into the field because we really liked being an RA or being a student leader. And then when you get into the field, you're like, oh, this is what it's like. This isn't quite what I thought it was. And so I think that's sort of the dissonance that you wrestle with as an entry-level is not as much there as you are at various officer role. Has that been your experience, Jill, in terms of being a chief student affairs officer?

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:28]: I think it's a really interesting question because I immediately find myself asking, what are the factors that contribute to that psychological and socialized wellbeing and satisfaction? And I hear what you're saying around mastery of environment and autonomy of decision-making, but even at the vice president for student affairs level, we're all beholden to our presidents and trustees and co-cabinet members and things like that. So there is autonomy and there is Because we're all on the same team. We're all in a, in a team that's trying to make this institution run and be successful for the students. I also can't help but continue to return to the salary conversation in student affairs. Is there life satisfaction because life becomes more affordable when you become a more senior-level professional? And then I also have to think about what, as a more senior professional, can I be doing now to help increase some of these factors for the team that I lead on a daily basis? What does it mean to create that psychological wellbeing for the team? And is that specifically in the way that we analyze or assign tasks or allow autonomy in the decisions that are appropriate for each level? I think your study begs a lot of qualitative study follow-up for sure.

Dr. Hollie Chessman [00:21:40]: And that was honestly an original intention, and then life got in the way, right? But it was like one of my intentions was to do a qualitative study follow-up. And when I had the— when I had the gap after I finished my dissertation, I was collecting business cards from folks who were volunteering to be part of my qualitative sample. And I just, I did, was not able to get there because I did not have the support in terms of the cash to sort of, you know, take the time to sort of do the hard work that it does take to do qualitative research and the time.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:10]: And for our listeners who are in the doctoral process or thinking about it, and you have not decided if you are going to approach your research topic from a qualitative or quantitative lens, there are pros and cons to both for sure. I can tell you that my cohort mates who did qualitatively based research dissertations were in multi-hundreds of pages for their final outputs and products. And I did a quantitative analysis using ANOVA methodologies, much like Holly, and I ended up somewhere between 125 to 150 pages, I think. So there are definitely pros and cons from length of writing, but you can get so much more depth out of qualitative analysis. So, but sometimes you need to set the baseline, which is what Holly has done in this research and gives us a jumping-off point to ask more questions.

Dr. Hollie Chessman [00:22:49]: Yeah, and that was one of the— my dissertation advisor, Jamie Lester, was always The best dissertation is a done dissertation, right? And that if you have all these other questions you have, you can explore later.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:00]: 100%. I had the same advice given to me. I've given that advice onward to others. But having that done, I think it's just so critical to remember that it's your first piece of independent research, not your last piece of independent research. But it's also so, so easy to have your whole life be surrounded by the doctoral process. So for all of those of you out there listening who are in it, keep going.

Dr. Hollie Chessman [00:23:23]: You got this. You got this. not a sprint. So you got

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:27]: it. For sure. Holly, is there anything else about this research that you wanted to make sure that you shared today?

Dr. Hollie Chessman [00:23:33]: Yeah, I think one of the other things I wanted just to mention, I also, in addition to the ANOVAs, I did a regression analysis, a hierarchical regression analysis where I, you know, modeled basically whether or not a student affairs professional was going to return, what their plans were, if they were going to return to the same institution, if they were going to leave, or if they were going to be looking for a new job, what level they were at. Race and ethnicity, I didn't do as good a job with that as I wish I would have during my dissertation process. One limitation for sure. Relationship status, and to your point, Joe, salary was a significant predictor of wellbeing in my sample as well. Other things that were significant predictors of wellbeing in my sample were also relationship status, overall satisfaction with your work environment, whether or not you had autonomy or control at your workplace, and then also your self-perceived perception of health. folks whether they, what they thought their health was and those who were good or excellent versus poor or fair. There was a lot, there was, that was a predictive thing as well. And so my, the model actually predicted 53% of wealth, the wellbeing score, which I thought was a really great sort of thing to sort of dive a bit deeper into.

Dr. Hollie Chessman [00:24:48]: Like if folks want a stepping off point to like look at some of these variables a little bit more deeply, you, the model itself provides a really good stepping off off point to say these things are the, are what the model is saying predict the wellbeing score. What can we do a deeper dive on to find out about the salary? What can we think about things about autonomy at work and having ability to make decisions and have the agency? So those are some of the things that I think, you know, it lends itself to as well.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:14]: Did you do any analysis or comparison to how these factors played out in other industries? I'm asking because I think we've done some work since your dissertation around understanding, you know, persistence in the field for entry and mid-level professionals. We have our own internal data as a profession, but I'm just wondering if there's anything out there that shows that this is a similar pattern in maybe K-12 education teachers or something more out there like banking.

Dr. Hollie Chessman [00:25:39]: That was one of the things that, because the BIT was a brand new instrument, it was like 1 year fresh when I started using it for my dissertation. And so I think there's been other studies that have utilized it and probably probably can speak to it more readily. But the sample size that they used, they were, they, in the work-related quality of life scale in particular, they didn't, they've actually done more studies with higher education and mostly based in the UK. But I think there's some applicability across the United States as well. And I mean, if I, if I had an opportunity to sit down and dive back into the, my library resources, I think I'm going to see some other folks that have actually, you know, continued to explore this topic a little bit more deeply and thoroughly than I was able to at the time.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:20]: Holly, I'm going to ask you our theme questions. for the season. And your study fits so nicely with our theme of enhancing the career pathways and wellbeing of student affairs professionals. So our first question is, what's one easy thing and one hard thing a supervisor can do to enhance the career pathway of the people they're charged with leading?

Dr. Hollie Chessman [00:26:39]: I think what one thing that is that I would, I think it's one easy thing and one hard thing. I think one easy thing is to have directed conversations with your supervisees about what it is that they want to Your hall directors probably don't wanna be hall directors for the rest of their life. So what is their career outcomes and career goals and how can you help support or direct them into resources that might help support that? I think, and I think a hard thing to do would be to really critically look, take a critical lens to your systems and structures and policies on campuses to look at like what might be hindering the in not helping the wellbeing of your faculty and staff and students. You know, even ACE measures of senior leaders' perceptions of wellbeing, of wellbeing and mental health of their faculty and staff. And even they have concerns about the wellbeing of their faculty and staff as well as their students. And so I think that's taking a hard look at your institution and thinking about what systems and structures exist that you can sort of start to dismantle to help increase the wellbeing of your professionals on Our

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:48]: second question is, what might you want VPSAs to consider regarding the holistic wellbeing of student affairs professionals that perhaps they're not already thinking about?

Dr. Hollie Chessman [00:27:57]: That's a really good question, because I think they're thinking about this topic probably a lot. I don't think it's not something that is like, oh, I should be thinking about this, right? It's something that they're, that our VPSAs are thinking about in a big way. I mean, have you assessed the wellbeing of your staff? Do you know how your academic advisors are faring against your assistants? Assessment folks and your housing folks. I mean, especially at a big university, there's, I think there's opportunities to sort of get into doing some of that assessment. Why not do a BIT and see occasionally and checking in with your staff to see how they're doing? I think that might be, and then utilizing that and leveraging that information to sort of make directed interventions at how to support and to help. So if you're having good wellbeing, Maybe find out what it is, why we're having a good period of wellbeing. And if they're having— their wellbeing doesn't look great right now, what can we be doing to help improve and support that wellbeing?

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:54]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to Producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:00]: Every week we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the Association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the, the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself where do you fit? Where do you want to give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that, or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:26]: Chris, thank you so much for keeping us informed on what's going on in and around NASPA. Always a lot to learn from you. Holly, we have reached our lightning round. where I've got 7 questions for you in about 90 seconds. Are you ready to do this?

Dr. Hollie Chessman [00:30:39]: Let's do it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:40]: All right. Question number 1, if you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

Dr. Hollie Chessman [00:30:46]: It would be The Rest Is Still Unwritten by Natasha Bedingfield.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:50]: Number 2, when you were 5 years old, what did you want to be when you grew up?

Dr. Hollie Chessman [00:30:54]: I want to be a veterinarian.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:55]: Number 3, who's your most influential professional mentor?

Dr. Hollie Chessman [00:30:59]: Oh, Jamie Lester and Denise Taylor and Lorel Espinosa. Sorry, there's 3.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:05]: Number 4, your essential student affairs read.

Dr. Hollie Chessman [00:31:08]: Oh, The Caring University by Kevin McClure.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:11]: Shout out to Kevin. He's been getting a lot of those lately. We just featured him on the pod in the spring if you want to hear him talk all about his book, The Caring University. Number 5, the best TV show you've been binging lately.

Dr. Hollie Chessman [00:31:23]: Just finished Parks and Rec.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:25]: Number 6, the podcast you spent the most hours listening to in this last

Dr. Hollie Chessman [00:31:29]: Oh my gosh. Anything Brené Brown. Right now I'm like into The Curiosity Shop with Brené Brown and Adam Grant. I listen to it every week on my commute to DC. It's lovely.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:39]: And finally, number 7, any shoutouts you'd like to give, personal or professional?

Dr. Hollie Chessman [00:31:43]: I would love to give a shoutout to you, Jill and Chris, for reaching out and asking me to be on this podcast. I think it's a great opportunity to sort of talk about this topic and really sort of deconstruct and think about how we can make our professionals have more wellbeing in our workplaces. Thank you.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:01]: Holly, I really appreciate you taking the time to go back into your 10 years ago self and resurrect some of that dissertation and also your article from JSARP. It's a really, an incredible contribution to the profession. We really thank you for that. If anyone would like to connect with you after this episode airs, how can they find you?

Dr. Hollie Chessman [00:32:17]: You can find me on LinkedIn or you can reach me at hchessman, H-C-H-E-S-S-M-A-N, at act. So happy to answer any emails or answer any questions you may have.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:30]: Thank you so much, Holly, for sharing your voice with us today.

Dr. Hollie Chessman [00:32:32]: Thank you so much, Jill, for having me. I really appreciate it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:36]: This has been an episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field brought to you by NASPA. This show is only made possible because of you, our listeners and our members. We continue to be so grateful that you choose to spend your time with us season after season. If you'd like to reach us here at the show, You can email us at [email protected] or find me on LinkedIn by searching for Dr. Jill L. Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. If you're interested in appearing on the show yourself, please do contact us.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:04]: We'd love it if you spend a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening from now. It really does help us in the student affairs community, as well as the podcasting community, to help This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton— that's me— produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint and New York University London for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time. Bye.

In the latest episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field, listeners are treated to a dynamic conversation with Dr. Jamarco Clark and Dr. Jason Lynch, co-editors of a special 2025 edition of the Journal of Education of Human Resources. Hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton, this episode delves into critical issues facing student affairs professionals, shining a spotlight on well-being, workplace culture, and the evolving definition of professionalism in higher education.

One of the podcast's most engaging themes is the importance of workplace well-being—not just for students, but for the professionals charged with supporting them. Dr. Jamarco Clark emphasizes the need for a staff-centered, student-focused approach, arguing that when staff are empowered and cared for, student success naturally follows. Both speakers reflect on lessons learned during the COVID-19 era, noting that while much research emerged in response to pandemic challenges, the issues of burnout, compassion fatigue, and the complexities of balancing personal and professional boundaries remain urgent and relevant.

The episode explores the multi-generational workforce in student affairs, discussing how differing views on professionalism and workplace expectations can impact collaboration and staff satisfaction. Dr. Jason Lynch and Dr. Jamarco Clark highlight how traditional concepts of professionalism—often based largely on appearance—are being re-examined, making room for more inclusive and flexible environments where effectiveness takes precedence over simply being "busy."

Remote and hybrid work also come up as hot topics, with the guests candidly sharing their personal experiences navigating both the positives and challenges of work-from-home arrangements. Their stories underline the importance of trust, flexibility, and recognizing the diverse needs of staff—especially when responding to student crises and managing cyclical job demands.

What emerges is a clear call for leaders in student affairs to proactively cultivate psychological safety within their divisions, to recognize staff contributions, and to intentionally prepare the next generation of practitioners. The dialogue is brimming with actionable ideas for supervisors, from empowering staff to take ownership of divisional projects, to focusing more on mentorship and less on micro-management.

Whether you're a seasoned professional or new to student affairs, this episode offers fresh perspectives and practical strategies for enhancing your own well-being and advancing your career. Tune in to be inspired, challenged, and reminded that supporting staff is not just good management—it's essential for the success of our students.

Ready to rethink your approach to student affairs? Listen to the full episode and join the conversation on the future of the profession!

TRANSCTIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:01]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed professionals wherever you happen to be. This is season 15, Enhancing the Career Pathways and Well-Being of Student Affairs Professionals. I'm Dr. Jill Creighton, she/her/hers, your SA Voices from the Field host. Welcome back to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, where today we're going to be talking to 2 authors who helped co-edit a special edition of a journal focusing on the wellbeing of student affairs professionals in the workplace. Our first guest is Dr. Jamarco Clark, who serves as the Vice President for Student Affairs at Wichita State University, where he works collaboratively across campus to strengthen the student experience and position student affairs as a strategic partner in student success.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:51]: Prior to joining Wichita State, Dr. Clark served as Vice Chancellor for Student Affairs at the University of Illinois Springfield. He also is an active scholar and graduate faculty member teaching in doctoral and master's programs in higher education leadership. His scholarship focuses on workplace wellbeing, trauma-informed supervision, and the experiences of student affairs professionals with particular attention to how institutions support the people who support students. Clark is a member of Alpha Phi Alpha fraternity and has been appointed by governors in both Illinois and Iowa to statewide service commissions where he contributed to efforts advancing civic engagement, volunteerism, and community service. Dr. Clark earned his Ed.D. from the University of Wisconsin-La Crosse, a master's degree in strategic leadership from Mount Mercy University, and a bachelor's degree in educational foundations from Iowa Wesleyan University.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:35]: Our second guest is Dr. Jason Lynch, who is a passionate educator and innovative scholar-practitioner. He's a native North Carolinian and first-generation college student growing up in Whiteville, a small rural town in the southeastern region of the state. His scholarship and teaching are informed by his practical experience in functional areas, including housing and residence life, student conduct, leadership development, multicultural affairs, fraternity and sorority life, assessment and evaluation, and statewide system policy and governance. He is committed to equipping educators and educational leaders with the tools to provide transformational learning opportunities for students while also fostering the growth and wellbeing of staff, faculty, and leadership. His research interests explore the nature and impact of trauma within educational contexts, with a specific focus on secondary traumatic stress, organizational trauma, and trauma-informed leadership in postsecondary education. He's held multiple leadership roles, including founding executive editor for the Journal of Student Affairs Research and Practice editorial board and co-editor of the Trauma-Informed Practice in Higher Education published by Bloomsbury. Welcome to SA Voices, Jamarco.

Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:02:35]: Hello. Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here with you.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:37]: And hello, Jason. Glad to have you on the show.

Dr. Jason Lynch [00:02:39]: I'm so glad to be here. Thanks for having me.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:42]: And today we are here talking, minus one of your co-editors, about an edition that happened in January of 2025 of the Journal of Education of Human Resources. And it was a special edition on workplace wellbeing and the student affairs professional, which just fits so nicely with our theme this season of enhancing the wellbeing and career pathways of student affairs professionals. Could not pass up this opportunity to talk to you all about this incredible curated volume of research that I don't know that a lot of student affairs practitioners check out this journal. So looking forward to digging into that. But before we get started with all of the goodness of the journal articles, we'd love to get to know you a little bit more. So, Jamarco, let's start with you. How did you get to your current seat?

Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:03:22]: Absolutely. So I'm Jamarco Clark. I'm currently the Vice President for Student Affairs at Wichita State University. At the time of taping, been here for about 2 months. And so it's been a very busy start to fall semester. Prior to this role, I was at the University of Illinois Springfield as the Vice Chancellor for Student Affairs and just was kind of in a space of we had accomplished some good work at UIS and knew that I'd like to get to a larger school. And Wichita State was one that checked a lot of boxes for me as it relates to what the university stands for, the way that access is created for students. And so, get into the process and, and really saw it as a place where I could see myself contributing to the great work that was happening and, and ultimately help enhance both the student and staff experience.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:05]: And Jason, how about you? How did you get to your current seat?

Dr. Jason Lynch [00:04:07]: Well, so I'm proud to say this is the longest position I've been in. So, I started as a faculty member at App State in fall 2020. And prior to that, I spent about a decade as a student affairs practitioner, primarily in residence life roles. But as of this semester, I'm the new program director for our HESA program at Appalachian State. I help with curriculum and admissions and all that sort of stuff. My primary bread and butter is studying issues around traumatic stress in college environments, as well as on issues of workplace wellbeing. And all of it's kind of grounded in my professional experience prior to becoming a faculty member.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:43]: I love the theory to practice elements that you two were able to collaborate forward on with one of you being a practitioner and one of you being in the faculty. We also have a 3rd co-editor in this edition, Dr. Tammy Samuels. Would one of you like to introduce a little bit about her?

Dr. Jason Lynch [00:04:56]: Yeah, definitely. So Tammy is a good friend. She and I used to work together at the UNC Kenan-Flagler Business School. Prior to that, really, she was at Rutgers University, and a lot of her career path deals with career advising. But she recently graduated with her doctorate from USC and is really passionate about creating sustainable work environments. Her specialty area is kind And how did the 3 of you come together and decide you wanted to take on this project? Yeah, so I think that all 3 of us have this shared interest, and I think that there was a call for special topic issues in this particular journal. And I think that whenever— I forgot, Jamarco, if we had already been collaborating on something, but it just was sort of serendipitous in that like all 3 of us were doing some similar work and we're friends and we're like, well, we'll submit some stuff.

Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:05:46]: But yeah, what Jason said, I think it's really important to recognize that this is a What Jason won't share is that Jason has done a phenomenal job of pulling in higher education, K-12 educators who are interested in this trauma work as it relates to looking at the wellbeing of the professionals. And so Jason has done a wonderful job of pulling folks together, and that's ultimately what led to it, right? He's, he's been a big name in the space as it relates to the work in the field. And so that opportunity came about and Jason pulled us together and we were able to work on this.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:13]: So thinking about this journal, I think this is, as I mentioned, a journal that not a lot of student affairs practitioners might have awareness of. Can you tell us all about what this journal is, what it focuses on, what type of research typically shows up here?

Dr. Jason Lynch [00:06:25]: Yeah, well, so to be honest, before the call, I wasn't super familiar with it either. As with a lot of education journals, they have sort of a P through 20 focus just by the nature and volume of K through 12 organizations and research. It's kind of like the American Education Research Association. It's kind of like their journals where higher ed is kind of a small discipline in and of itself. So you'll find that most articles are probably K through 12 related. But I think that's why it was even more important for us to make this or or meet this call with research around higher education professionals. And it's geared towards the folks that are doing this staff support, human resources work. And I think we could elevate this topic more within our discipline in student affairs.

Dr. Jason Lynch [00:07:06]: I think it's equally important that we need to meet our partners on campus that have a lot of influence over systems and structures and help educate them and present them with, with good research and suggestions for the field.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:18]: I think it's interesting the timing of this piece as well, because launching in January of 2024, And backing up, we know that these processes for publication can take months, if not sometimes years. And I would imagine there was a lot of influence of COVID in the COVID era in the wellbeing work that's in place in the articles. Can you talk about how that might have influenced and what you're seeing now as still evergreen from that particular point?

Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:07:42]: Yeah, I think one of the things that I would add too is that back in 2020, Jason, myself, and a couple other practitioners were talking about that very topic. We did another webinar, I believe it was with SA Now, and it was really about how coming out of COVID And this is where my interest became during COVID outta COVID, all the things that were happening around that time. It was so often professionals, both K-12, higher ed, the question was always, what do the students need? I know students, and we never really got to pause to think about what we needed for ourselves. And so that's where my interest in this work really became. And I think we still see a lot of that today. And so it's something that, that continues to be timely and a lot of things are associated to it. It's the nature of the work, but I really like to invite people to pause and think about what they need. need in any given situation before they jump to taking care of what the needs are of the students, because that's wellbeing, really thinking about what you need in the situation as well.

Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:08:36]: So I think from 2020 and even probably before up until now, it's still prevalent, it's still relevant as well, and I don't think it's gonna go away. And that's why it's important that we keep talking about it.

Dr. Jason Lynch [00:08:47]: I think that when you kind of look at the list of articles and stuff too, like, well, and to your point around the publication machine, if you will, right? A lot of these articles are written kind of right after return to work era after COVID. And so even though published in 2025, a lot of the work was done and a lot of the research was based off of the lived experiences that were happening in the moment. But what I find fascinating too, and years after having this all published and going through it and looking back through these articles, all of it still applies. And so there's sort of this catch-22. They're like, well, I'm glad we did the work. And it's kind of like, well, did anybody listen to the work? Because I feel like there's a lot of hand-wringing sometimes around like, how did we get here? Why is this the way that it is? And I was like, well, People have been shouting from the rooftops for a while now about this. And I think to your point about being evergreen or timely, I think each one of these articles are still just as timely this year as they were in last year or even the years that they were written.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:43]: I want to talk a little bit about the content. There are 13 or 14 articles that were curated for this particular edition, and they range from retention to remote work to supporting staff practitioners that have identities of people of color or other marginalized identities that they might bring it with their everyday selves at work. There's also about understanding the workplace satisfaction for mid-level folks. I think that one's really important because the mid-level is the largest trench of student affairs professionals that we have and also a critical place for development for future leadership. There's also some really important work on how we show up as people of color in the space. And then also there's an article that I found particularly interesting on reconstructing professionalism, because there's so much conversation around professionalism and who sets those standards and what are the histories and the origins of what does it mean to show up as a professional, whether it be what you wear or how you speak or what it means to interact. Do you have a favorite piece? I know that's hard to answer as editors, but do you have a favorite piece or maybe a piece that speaks to you the most?

Dr. Jason Lynch [00:10:43]: That's a loaded question, Jill. Well, so all of our authors submitted really great pieces. Enjoy all of them. So I guess that's my political answer. But I think the thing that really, that I tend to think about a lot is what you were just talking about around professionalism. And I even think about it in my role as a faculty member, it kind of carries over and what does it mean to be a professional in a faculty role. But, and I think the part of the reason I'm so interested in that is Margaret Salee at the University at Buffalo published a really great book that I have a chapter in around creating sustainable careers in higher ed, but really looking at it through this idea of ideal worker norms. And I've been doing a lot of reading.

Dr. Jason Lynch [00:11:22]: I taught a capstone class recently where we used the book called, was it The Good Enough Job, and how we kind of overprioritize or overidealize some of our professions sometimes. And there's a Dr. Fabazi in library Sciences coined this term called vocational awe. And it's sort of this idea that idolize this profession to such a degree that you're unable to critique it. And I think that in student affairs, even though we love to critique things, it's really hard for us to critique ourselves sometimes in the processes that we do because, and I'll throw the ball over to Gianmarco for his take on this too, because it's this idea that students are always first in this sort of customer service environment. You get it from both ends. You get the emotional guilt of students first, but then you also get sort of the, well, we're in a customer service role.

Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:12:04]: Yeah. And like Jason, I would say, I love them all, but that's the one that I would talk about too. You know, for me, I'm a young leader in the work. And so the thing that strikes me about the professionalism conversation is that we have 4 to 5 generations in the workforce right now, 4 to 5. And so when we talk about ideal worker norms, right, that spans and that's changing constantly. Right. And so professionalism, in my opinion, is subjective. It's something that when you look at the origins of student affairs, the origins of higher education, it was created by a group of people for a certain group And I think it's kind of used as this tool or this thing or this notion even that, that's kind of placed upon others.

Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:12:44]: But I tell people all the time, whether I have on a tie, a polo, or a jersey that I wore last week, it's not going to change what I say. And a lot of times when people talk about professionalism, it goes into what the appearance looks like. It goes into how they talk. And I think we've just, we have to continue to be mindful that it's not a one-size-fits-all. I think it's situational awareness. I think it's generational awareness. And so I like that it's a 4 to 5 multi-generational group. Yeah.

Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:13:10]: generational workforce, but understanding that the way we work with that Gen Z is going to be much different than that baby boomer, and professionalism across those lines are also different. Yeah, I'll stop there. But I think that's certainly one that I appreciate. And as a young leader at the senior level, I like to challenge and disrupt that, even if I would.

Dr. Jason Lynch [00:13:29]: Funny anecdote, or at least I think it's funny for a second around this topic. So whenever I was in grad school, I went to NC State for my master's, and I was coming out doing the traditional job search and everything, and I had an on-campus interview. And obviously I won't name the institution or anything, but there was a lot of talk about how professional they are. This is a professional institution. We are a professional department. And so I was curious, as I tend to be, and kept asking in the different sections of the interview, well, what does professionalism mean to you? And truly, the folks that I was interviewing with really couldn't get past sort of the visuals of professionalism. So it was a lot of, we wear ties to work, we like wear suits. And obviously I ended up turning that job down, but that experience really struck me because I'm like, well, if we're also going to be holding people to a professional standard, we also should be able to define what professionalism actually is.

Dr. Jason Lynch [00:14:17]: And I think folks kind of take that for granted sometimes too.

Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:14:20]: If I could just add one more thing to that. So my career also clashes student affairs with athletics. And so there would be days, you know, I oversaw athletics at my last school. I was the interim AD. There would be days where I leave my house and I say, well, today I'm gonna dress like I work in athletics. And you know, that, that equals shorts and polo. Does that mean I'm gonna be less professional in my role as vice chancellor? No. And so I think it can't just stop at appearance.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:43]: It's not possible.

Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:14:43]: It's not fair. I talk to people about facial hair because I have a beard and not just a goatee or just a clean-shaven. Does that change how I'm perceived? Maybe. But does it change how I'm going to show up? No. So I think it's really important to go beyond appearance.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:59]: Those standards being implicit often, as opposed to explicit, I think is where the profession in itself has seen some challenges around everything from what you were talking about in appearance there to dress code, to whatever else it means to show up as your professional self. And I think that leads us down a road of code switching. and a number of other things that come into play there. That's something I think we could dissect for a very long time. As we think about the other elements of this particular special edition, what other topics would you like to see highlighted?

Dr. Jason Lynch [00:15:29]: I'll say that I think that one of the pieces I was glad to see a proposal for that ended up being in the article was the work from home piece. I think that in student affairs too, that I think it can almost be antithetical to some folks and their values around student affairs. Like, I think that some folks folks came up in the professional socialization that you're on campus and you're there to support students, and that means a physical presence. And I think that, like I said, I kind of came through professionally through residence life, and it's so interesting to think about that as a work-from-home space too, because I was a resident director for my first few years. And at my first institution, it was very much like you were in your office from 8 to 5. There is no work from home. We will call you at 8 o'clock in the morning to make sure you were in your office, even if you were up to 5 o'clock in the morning with a duty call. But then, uh, and we'll name this institution.

Dr. Jason Lynch [00:16:17]: I worked at UC Berkeley, and that was completely the opposite there. And I felt, even though there was definitely challenges in the role, like they were very much like, hey, what you need, and like, we trust that you were building community. And so I was able to do things in my own calendar, and I really thrived in that piece and really appreciated the arguments that the authors were making. I have seen a little bit more of an uptick of folks having more of a hybrid schedule, I guess, in those ways.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:16:42]: Yeah, that piece is called Why Not Remote? Campus-Centric HR Policies' Impact on Wellness and Retention. student affairs professionals. I know in my current environment, we do a 1-day remote a week, and our staff use that for focused work time to also just get time in their life back from the commute that might happen and opportunities to do everything from take a delivery to do laundry in the middle of the day. Those things add so much value to employee health, wellbeing, satisfaction, retention, for sure.

Dr. Jason Lynch [00:17:11]: And I'll add, and one thing that I found in that is, so in my current role, I work primarily from home. I teach mainly online. And I've noticed that while I still have an affinity for my institution, there's a much firmer boundary. And so I don't get as wrapped up in sort of the institutional minutia that you can if you're kind of on campus all the time. And I also noticed, as a— whenever I'm teaching our first-year students and everything, one of the pieces of advice I always give them is I wish that I would have done a better job as a new professional making friends that had nothing to do with higher education and getting involved with like community organizations that had nothing to do with higher education, because I was definitely one of those that lived, breathed, and had all my friends were higher ed folks for a number of years, and I think that led to a lot of burnout because you couldn't escape it and you only had that one perspective of life that you're around. So I think that work from home also allows for a little more flexibility of expanding your world in those ways.

Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:18:04]: I'd say the one area that I really appreciate, and it's certainly a personal interest, is just what I would call the weight of responding to student crisis and how it becomes so cyclical over time. And I can't remember the name of the exact article, but it talked about— it was very compassion fatigue heavy, but it was We've got to make sure we're taking care of ourselves so that we can fully take care of others. And my research is certainly along those lines as well, researching secondary trauma in student affairs professionals. And through all of that, the thing that I often come back to is we have to do a better job of taking care of the people who take care of the people. That's my approach to it. You know, you hear a lot of schools talk about being students first, student-centered, and my approach is that we have to be staff-centered and student-focused. And that article really hit on that. It also talked about how it's important for a human resource department To talk more about their EAP offerings, talk more about the stuff that's there.

Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:18:59]: They're often hidden, and it's free, and people don't know that it's free. And it gets into a lot of stuff, not just the counseling. And so it talked about institutions just making that stuff be more known. Don't make it be the best kept secret. It doesn't need to be a secret. Let folks know about those benefits. So I really appreciated that because when we look at higher ed, specifically around these times of the year, it's heavy. You're dealing with a lot of stuff that of just trying to do the job, and then you throw in the student crisis, and we are here for our students.

Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:19:24]: We here to make sure we're supporting them, but eventually it gets heavy on you. And so how are you making sure that you're equipped? How are you making sure that you're well enough to be able to take on those situations? So I appreciated that article about that.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:19:37]: Gianmarco, is that the put on your own mask first before assisting others article?

Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:19:41]: Yep, that's the one.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:19:42]: That one is colon, prioritizing a collaborative approach to the wellness of student and academic affairs professionals. I'm wondering what that looks like for you operationalizing it as a concept, especially when you're the VP at such a large institution. There's several hundred staff in student affairs at Wichita State. What does that mean for how you prepare your managers who are leading others and the staff that need the balance of, yes, we're supporting students as the center of our work, and also we need to be engaging in systemic care for each other and ourselves?

Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:20:12]: It's new for me here at Wichita State, but I, you know, I carry the experience from my time at the University of Iowa, most recently my time at the University of Illinois Springfield. And it's really about giving people permission to stop stuff, because that's usually where we think we have to do everything because we've always done everything. And it sounds It's broad, but in breaking it in, it's really about, we don't have to do that. That's not necessary to be effective, right? It's also helping people understand that busy doesn't equal effective. And so really asking our folks to be more intentional, be intentional about how we're using our resources, and not just talking about our dollars, but our people resources. And so when I talk about giving people permission to stop things, it's really just inviting this idea that we can still get to that end goal without step 3, 4. It could really just be 1, 2, and 5 that we need to get there. And so I try to create a culture I try to create a culture of there's a situation where you might be impacted by it.

Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:21:07]: You don't need to be the person engaging in that. So it's as simple as just, hey, it'll be there tomorrow. I think another good example that I like to talk to people about, I appreciate remote work, but I think I had a staff member here a couple weeks ago who they were sick or they had a sick kid and they're like, well, we could just move the meeting to remote. And I was like, no, we can't. That work's gonna be there next week. And so I think it's convenient when it's convenient, but that doesn't mean that it's gotta assume or occupy all of our time. And so, in my role, I have the luxury of being able to give the division that flexibility. We're able to do it at my last school, and we did it really well, and we took care of our people.

Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:21:43]: One of the things we also talked about is that, is there a work-life balance? Not really, but we can have harmony, and we're going to be respectful of people's time, right? Take your time off, take your mental health days, work from home if you need to, but if you need to be away, be away. I think it's ultimately—

Dr. Jason Lynch [00:21:58]: that's ultimately what it Well, Jill, I know that you are a facilitator, but can I ask a question of Jamarko?

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:04]: Yes, please do.

Dr. Jason Lynch [00:22:05]: Well, Jamarko, so this is kind of grounded in— I did a research study with Brittany McDaniels, who has since left HIRE, but she was at Wesleyan, and Kendall Peete, who's now at the University of Maryland at Baltimore County, I believe. And it was about workplace thriving because we saw a lot of stuff around workplaces are bad. Where are the good places at and why are they good? We studied this quantitatively, and one of the things that we found as a predictor of workplace thriving was recognition, and specifically recognition through advocacy of supervisors. So when supervisors tell their staff's story and advocate up, that was one of the top predictors of workplace thriving for student affairs professionals. Particularly this population was in housing. So I guess my question, Gianmarco, is that in all the years I've known you, one of the things I think you do really well is advocacy and doing it in a way that people can hear. How do you advocate to people above, whether you're entry-level advocating to mid, or even as a VP now advocating to your president for your staff? Like, how do you do that?

Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:22:59]: Yeah, I think it's really trying to be on the same page as to what it is that folks want to accomplish. And again, this is where— so I come into the role, this is my second VP role, this is my 13th year in the profession. So I don't have the 20-plus years of the experience, but I come into it from a very systematic approach. And so when you think about it, systems thinking, I'll use Wichita State. So Wichita State as a whole needs its individual units to be successful so that Wichita State can be successful, so that the Kansas Board of Regents, so on and so forth. And so I talked to my folks about as a, as a student affairs unit, we have to do our part in helping Wichita State accomplish those goals. And so when I'm talking with leadership, it's, what do you need me to accomplish? And then there's different ways to accomplish that, right? It's not that I need someone working 60, 70 hours a week. It's not that we need to have all these barriers.

Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:23:49]: So finding ways to be efficient and effective, that's ultimately what it's about for me. I tell my staff and my students all the time, I love the agency that I have in the role, but I recognize that it's not mine, it's theirs. And so I use my position to do that, to advocate, to make sure those voices are heard. I often talk about how I have a commitment to being that annoying fly that just won't go away, because that's what we got to do. When you talk about advocating for students, making sure that that voice is always there, we talk about advocating for staff, it's there. The other part though, and at times I'm a hypocrite at this, so I am really good at making my staff take that time, be away. I'm bad at it myself. And so I recognize too that I've got to get better at modeling the way we talk about, because that's self-advocacy, right? That you don't have to always be So if I'm working at midnight, don't send that email, schedule it to go the next morning.

Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:24:39]: It's those kind of things that just sends those signals so that people can feel confident. I think self-advocacy is that, all right, the VP emailed me at 10, I'm not gonna reply until 8. It's giving people those types of permission. The baseline of that, Jason, though, I think has to be psychological safety. People have to know that those things are okay. And I think culture, if culture, uh, past or present doesn't conform with that, people are gonna think they have to do it right away. people are going to be timid, they're going to be walking on eggshells, and you're not going to get good work out of them. And in return, they're not going to be able to advocate for themselves because they're afraid to do it.

Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:25:14]: So being able to take all that stuff out of the space and give people the empowerment that they need to be able to advocate for themselves. So it's not one thing, it's, it's, it's kind of a, it's a tool belt of several things that you've got to be willing to do and willing to try to make it work.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:26]: There's so much richness in the conversation around how we support kind of the wellbeing of our staff in student affairs in this issue.

Dr. Jason Lynch [00:25:34]: I'm wondering what are the most prominent things that you've taken and implemented I won't name it because it's not public knowledge yet, but I have a colleague that is in an upper-level role that has restructured their department to just kind of a completely new format in a way that it was driven by data around staff wellbeing and how staff completed their strengths and creating the psychological safety of, in this reorg, it's not about you losing your job or being docked pay or anything like that. It's that we are creating mechanisms to be able to spread the work and the impact of this work. work out a little more because they noticed that work was getting piled on specific individuals or units. So I think that's one thing that I've really seen. I think one of the larger national conversations that I've seen is the role, particularly in housing, is like the role of the resident assistant. I think a lot of changes have been coming to that in several institutions around like perhaps we shouldn't be relying on a 19-year-old to be saving a student who is experiencing suicidal ideation. That's probably not their place to be doing. And I do think that the people were concerned.

Dr. Jason Lynch [00:26:38]: And I will say that I do think that I hear from a lot of upper-level leaders they are concerned for their staff. I think the issue is that higher education is a very unique— people like to say it's a business, and I always like to roll my eyes at that because I was like, it's not a business, it's more of a municipality, if anything, right? Because you have so many different stakeholders that businesses don't have. As a public institution, we answer to students and parents and faculty and community partners and taxpayers and legislators and the federal government and all these different things. And I think that's where the pressure gets in, is that how do I discern as an upper-level leader where to push back, where to protect my staff? Where do we need to accept and move on? Like, how, how do you do all of that? Because like, it's a really precarious position to be in because you're, you as an individual are being expected to solve systemic issues. VPs, like, they're kind of stuck in the middle of all of these intersections of these different stakeholders, right? And so it's the idea that, how do I balance this? Is it that I need to advocate at this moment? Is it that I need to help my staff through something that we just can't change? And I don't think there's really a lot of training for that.

Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:27:41]: Yeah.

Dr. Jason Lynch [00:27:42]: I think that structurally a lot of things are being experimented with. I think that those will help. And yet there's systems that need to be changed and we can't just expect one person or like our singular VPs to be able to change an entire national system by themselves. Right. And I don't have the answer as to how we do that. But I think collectively there are people smarter than I that can help lead that conversation.

Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:28:08]: And I would say, right, as sitting in the seat and having done it at another institution, and I'll tell you, it's been much more busy here at Wichita State than it was for me at UAS. And part of that is just, it's a larger institution. There's more stakeholders, to your point. I think the key is, I'll go back to something that I said earlier. It's, I talked to my staff about how can we do less better? And as we do less better, how does that help us reclaim some of our time, reclaim some of that energy? Some places, especially in a world of budget issues, it tends to be, let's do more with less. And again, I'm really, let's do less better. Again, when I think about it from a student standpoint, I tell staff, I don't wanna see 50 events. I wanna see 18 good experiences because that's ultimately what people are gonna remember.

Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:28:55]: They're gonna remember the experience. They're not gonna remember all of those 32 other events. And so when I equate that to staff, it's, it's being able to reclaim time. It's being able to reclaim energy. And so doing less better, I think, is one path to accomplishing, you know, higher ed tells us that we have to just go, go, go, go, go. And I'm very much a Hey, let's take a break. Let's slow down. We don't have to go as fast.

Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:29:16]: We talk about on my team, we want to be proactive so that we can be effectively reactive. And the example that I use with that is that I'll, I've been, I'll tell people I've never seen October at Wichita State. So I don't really know what to expect, but I have a lot of people on my staff who have. And so let's anticipate what we know is going to happen in October. Let's anticipate how busy we're going to be in November. And that might mean that we need to be a little bit less busy in October. And so it's really using that type of data to, to help us figure out where it is that we need to go. Again, how do we stop stuff? But ultimately it gets back to let's do less better.

Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:29:53]: Let's not always do it just because we've always done it. That's the last thing I like to hear. And then again, just giving people permission to do less better, making people feel psychologically safe. I think a lot of times people equate effectiveness with busy and knowing that that's not the case. And when we can again tone down on that, you're getting your time back. You're being able to really be off when you're off. You can actually be away when you're away. That's the thing.

Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:30:17]: where, you know, I've had people told me since I've been here, well, I'm off tomorrow, but call me if you need to. No, I'm not calling you. We'll take care of that next week. It's stuff like that where, and it's, it's gotta be little, it's gotta be consistent, but it's also persistent and trying to tackle it and get after it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:32]: I think this leads us really nicely into our theme questions for the season. So I've got 2 questions on the theme of enhancing the career pathways and wellbeing of student affairs professionals. And our first is, what's one easy thing and one hard thing that a supervisor can do to enhance the career pathway of the people they're charged with leading?

Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:30:52]: I've got, I've got an easy thing, and it's, it's like maybe double as both, but I have a rule that we broke on at my last school that I'm implementing here, that I don't lead anything in my division that's just for the division. I'll work on it with people, but if I need to be away, that work has to be able to continue. And so, I'm very firm on like this, and this gets to that divisional leader versus institutional leader. And so, I like to build people up so that if I need to be away, I know that those balls can keep rolling. And so, as I lead people, it's really important that they learn my job. They may not want my job, but they may need to be able to step into it or, or kind of hold that space if I'm gone. And so, I work with leaders on doing that with their staff, and then we get to model that with mine. What that's equated to for me is that the last couple of places that I left, my number 2, or the person who's, who's kind of stepped in for me, has gotten that job.

Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:31:47]: Because we've worked from a very, you know, my leadership is a consensus, it's a collaboration leadership, and really helping people stretch and grow. And so, it's easy to help your— pull your people along. Don't, you know, as leaders, I think leaders often want all the spotlight. You don't need the spotlight. What I know to be true is that the people who are really making these divisions go forward is what you talked about earlier, Jill, those mid-level folks, those directors, right? Those are the folks who are making it go. And so, how do we make sure we're empowering them? And so, finding opportunities for directors to engage with the VP, finding opportunities for the, my direct reports to also engage, but also be able to fill my space. And I think the hard part for people is letting it go. Just let it go.

Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:32:28]: Let people do that. Right. And that's how you can build a good division. One of the things I've been talking to my team about is that we've gotta be able to go from being a, a golf team to being a football team. And so the, the concept was that as a golf team, it's a team still, but you got a bunch of individuals, right? You've got, you can get first, someone can get first place, someone can get 15th, and the team can still get last. And I need a football team or a basketball team where there's one result, understanding that we've got to work together. The message that I've said to the team to really get that across is that your portfolios may be your responsibility, but student affairs is our shared responsibility. And so just trying to shift everyone's thinking to be along those lines.

Dr. Jason Lynch [00:33:06]: And our second question, what might you want vice presidents of student affairs to consider regarding the holistic wellbeing of student affairs professionals that perhaps they're not I think for me, it's, I think that blends with the last question too, a little bit about supervisors and the common theme that kind of keeps coming up across different concepts that I study, like moral injury, secondary trauma, psychological safety, all these things, is that new professionals just tend to be the ones that are most impacted, or I guess they tend to be the ones that have the highest or lowest scores in whatever the negative category might be compared to their mid-level or senior counterparts. But the sense that I've been kind of making of that Right. And thinking about my own experience as a new professional is that one, you don't know what you don't know. And anytime you're in a new environment, you're nervous and because you don't know what to expect. And so you're already kind of in this like heightened, your body's in this sort of like heightened hypervigilant state. Even if you're in a good position, you might really love your first position or whatever that is, but your body is still kind of primed to be a little more on edge with different things because you haven't been through it before. And that's for anybody. If you haven't, if you haven't had a particular experience, there's always gonna be some sort of edge to that.

Dr. Jason Lynch [00:34:18]: So my point, I guess, is with developing wellbeing or supervision and things like that is being a little bit more intentional with our onboarding of folks that are new into the profession in and of itself. So like, one thing I always hear from supervisors is these new folks just don't know how to do X, or they don't know how to set boundaries. And I'm like, well, did you ever take a class or did anybody ever sit you down and be like, hey, this is how you set a boundary? And more often than not, people are like, no. And so I'm like, well, perhaps. Like, I, in my classes, I do a module on boundary setting. And I was like, what does that mean? What does it mean for you? How do we like do that? That in a professional manner? So I think it's all these sort of soft skills that folks take for granted that folks are learning and actually helping folks contextualize it within their position and within their institution. And I recognize that can be hard sometimes because folks are— there's institutional culture that you're dealing with at the same time of dealing with the individual, right? And so as a supervisor, even as a senior-level leader, you're still in the middle between sort of this idea of the culture and the individual. And so there's a balance to be struck.

Dr. Jason Lynch [00:35:21]: And I also think that stating those things loud. Something that is, is sometimes working, sometimes not for me, but inevitably the person that will just say the hard truth in the room. And I think sometimes people just need to hear it so they can process it. Yeah.

Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:35:32]: I think as I'm in the role and trying to navigate it, and I will say, I don't have the, the, the complete answer for this because I'm still trying to figure it out too. But actually I just forgot the question. So, Joe, could you tell me the question again? I was headed on a train as you were talking and I forgot the question. So sorry. Yeah. So like we've gotta hone in on that word holistic. I think that's, that's the number one key, right?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:53]: We talk about holistic for the students.

Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:35:56]: And the message that I would offer is that the staff experience is just as important as the student experience. Staff wellbeing is student wellbeing, right? Staff success is student success. So all these things really equate to it. And so I go back to my staff-centered, student-focused, you know, when I talk about it, I usually have the example that if the students are the center, they're all stacked atop each other. You can't really see it because there's more students than staff. And so it's not, it's not possible to see it. Now, if the students become the focal point, right? I've got 3 different colors. If they're the focal point, I'll show the color in the middle.

Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:36:31]: You then have groups of staff at the center who could pay attention to the different focal points. And so that's why I think that staff-centered, student-focused is important. And in that, you give staff permission to not have to be everything for everyone. They can really focus on those areas that appeal to them. They can focus on an area where, you know, I've got these 2 sticky notes. Well, I might have issues with this, this blue area, but I don't have any issues with this, with this pink area. So I'm going to be able to really hone in on it because I have personal things that impact me with this one. So really giving people the permission to kind of pick and curtail their experiences or the work that they get to do as it relates to specifically taking care of issues.

Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:37:09]: And so that's just one way to think about it. Again, don't have it fully sorted out. If I do, I'll convene with a lot of BPSAs to try to get them the answer. But I would say it's really honing in on that holistic and really thinking about that whole person for the staff, just as we do with the students.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:25]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in In the NASPA World.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:37:31]: Thanks, Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA World, and there's a ton of things happening in NASPA. Last month, NASPA released its annual research on top issues in student affairs. The 2026 NASPA Top Issues in Student Affairs report provides you with a snapshot of priorities in higher education among student affairs professionals in 2026, while highlighting areas where professionals need additional support. The 3rd annual iteration of the study expanded to include perspectives from student Affairs professionals at all levels, including vice presidents of student affairs, senior-level assistant vice presidents, faculty, mid-level, or new professionals. Participants rated the level of importance of 25 issues within 5 key areas: administration and governance, assessment and evaluation, health, safety, and well-being, student success and technology, and digital innovation. The 2026 Top Issues in Student affairs research tells us a clear story that student success and wellbeing remains at the center of the work. However, professionals recognize that meaningful progress depends on how well we strategically collaborate, invest, and align data assessment efforts to build institutional capacity.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:38:50]: Student success and wellbeing remain foundational priorities in 2026 for institutions and the work of student affairs. Issues in the area of student success were rated within the top five most important issues across all professional levels. Aggregating responses from all professional levels this year, noting the distinction in vice presidents being asked about level of importance of each issue to their institution in 2026 and others asked about level of importance to their role, shows the top three issues most frequently rated as very. important are, first, increasing institution-wide collaboration to deliver coordinated student success supports. Second, providing students with education and supports to ensure that they have affirming institutional experiences. And third, using feedback from students through surveys, focus groups, and other assessment tools to improve holistic student supports. You can learn more about all of these findings on the NASPA website. Just go to naspa.org.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:39:55]: This was an eye-opening report. It will definitely provide you with some really key insights into what is important today within members of the association. There is a new issue of the Journal of Student Affairs Research and Practice that was released recently. For those of you that have never reviewed the Journal of Student Affairs Research and Practice, the vision of this journal is to produce the most rigorous, relevant, and well-respected research and practice making a difference in student affairs practice. JSARP especially encourages manuscripts that are unconventional in nature and that engage in methodological and epistemological extensions that transcend the boundaries of traditional research inquiries. In the most recent issue, there are a ton of different research and scholarship articles that range from how LGBTQIA+ STEM students navigate campus microclimates, to from Friendsgiving to group advising, student mattering and HESA master's programs, to early adversity and mental health challenges facing Latinx students in higher education. You'll also find a few additional articles, one on artificial intelligence in student affairs and services, a global study on adoption perceptions and ethical Considerations and Enhancing Student-Athlete Belonging Through an Identity-Focused Intervention. All of these articles are provided in the new journal, and this journal, along with a number of other journals, are all included in your membership to NASPA.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:41:34]: All you have to do to access this journal is to go to the NASPA website at naspa.org, go under Research and Publications, and then go to Scholarly Journals. Once you go there, you'll see all of the different journals that are available, and you can access all of those as a part of your membership to the association. A reminder for all of you about the NASPA Public Policy Hub. The Public Policy Hub is an amazing resource that's available to all NASPA members. You can access it by going to the NASPA website at naspa.org, go to Key Initiatives, and go down to the Policy Hub. If it's the first time that you've ever gone there, you may need to register. As a member, you do have access to doing that. It's simple and easy and free.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:42:23]: And then once you have that, you can go in and you can identify what type of Policy Hub updates and resources you want to have access to, and you can sign up for all of those as well. Then you will start getting emails from them to be able to keep you up to date on things that they're working on, things that are happening, and things that you will want to make sure that you stay on track or on track to know because of how it will impact the work that you're doing within your state or beyond. Again, go to naspa.org, click on Key Initiatives, and scroll down to the Policy Hub. Every week we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the, the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself where do you fit, where do you want to give back. Each This week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:43:58]: I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things, to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:44:28]: Chris, thank you so much for keeping us informed on what's going on in and around NASPA. Lots going on this week. And Jason and Jamarco, we have reached our lightning round. I've got 7 questions for you in about 90 seconds. Are you ready to do this?

Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:44:43]: Let's do it.

Dr. Jason Lynch [00:44:44]: I think so.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:44:44]: All right. Question 1, if you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

Dr. Jason Lynch [00:44:49]: If you've ever seen Legally Blonde, there's this song by LeAnn Rimes, and I forgot what the name of it is, but We Can Do the Impossible. And I was like, if I ever ran for president, that was, that would be my like campaign song. So I would say that for this too.

Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:44:59]: Then I would come out to Dreams and Nightmares by Meek Mill.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:03]: Number 2, when you were 5 years old, what did you want to be when you grew up?

Dr. Jason Lynch [00:45:06]: I wanted to be a paleontologist. I was obsessed with Jurassic Park. I had the whole playset and all of it. And so I thought that I was going to be out there hunting for dinosaur bones when I was in kindergarten.

Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:45:16]: I wanted to be a professional football player.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:18]: Number 3, who's your most influential professional mentor?

Dr. Jason Lynch [00:45:22]: Well, so I'll say that to this day, I think that my dissertation chair slash doctoral advisor, Dr. Chris Glass, he's at Boston College now, but I think who I am as a faculty member and how I operate and how I kind of view my role is a direct lineage of, of him and observing. And I just wouldn't be where I'm at now if it wasn't for him. So, hey, Chris, shout out to you.

Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:45:43]: Mine would be Chancellor Janet Gooch, my chancellor at my last school. She took a chance at hiring a 30-year-old to be a vice chancellor and forever indebted, but she was just a great partner in doing the work. She cares about the profession. And so I just learned a lot from her about how to be a great and effective leader. And so I appreciate that.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:00]: Number 4, your essential student affairs read.

Dr. Jason Lynch [00:46:03]: I mean, I think I referred to it earlier, but I'm always pushing the creating sustainable careers. It just has such good insights from authors that are— they tried to pair faculty and staff for each chapter, and it's just a beautifully curated book. I advocate for that.

Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:46:17]: I'm gonna shout out 2 NASPA books. So the first one is Executive Transition in Student Affairs. So this was so vital for me going into my first role. I went from assistant dean of students to a vice chancellor role, and it's been great to revisit it moving from a VP role to a VP role. And then a recent one that we got is the Well-Being Leadership in Higher Education. I've just appreciated being able to thumb through it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:37]: So those Number 5, the best TV show you've been binging lately.

Dr. Jason Lynch [00:46:43]: Well, it just started its new season. Uh, my husband and I are big reality TV people, so one is The Traitors and 2 is Secret Lives of Mormon Wives. So we are deeply into both of those.

Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:46:54]: It's hard for me to, to stick with the series, but I really enjoyed watching The Pit.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:58]: Number 6, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

Dr. Jason Lynch [00:47:02]: Oh, that's easy. I listen to Race Chaser by Willam and Alaska. It's a drag queen podcast, covers like RuPaul and the drag queen world.

Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:47:09]: Number 4, And I spend a lot of time listening to The Pivot. It's like a sports and culture podcast.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:47:15]: And finally, number 7, any shoutouts you'd like to give, either personal or professional?

Dr. Jason Lynch [00:47:19]: Oh, I'll just shout out all the folks that have come along and influenced me in my career to where I am today. I know it started off with folks like Amy Hector at UNCW and Diane Reed and all those folks in undergrad and went to my master's program with Crystal Clark. It was at Vanderbilt and just all through, I know that all the Burke staff, Glenn DeGuzman and James Carroll and Chanel and Marnie and all those folks, and then doctoral folks today here at App State are just great people.

Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:47:51]: Yeah. And I'm actually going to shout out Dr. Jason Lynch. So Dr. Lynch was on my dissertation committee, and I think as it relates to the work of trauma studies in education, well-being, compassion fatigue, Jason's doing some great work. So I just appreciate what he's done to build community and bring people together around these important topics. And it's empowered me. It's certainly a very important part of how I lead and the leadership work I get to do.

Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:48:14]: And so I appreciate being a practitioner at this level, having a friend and a colleague in Jason who is doing it on a foundational level and a profession-wide level as well. So I really appreciate that.

Dr. Jason Lynch [00:48:25]: Thank you, Jamarko.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:48:26]: We really appreciate you educating us today on this beautiful journal. And I hope that practitioners can go check it out. Again, it's the Journal of Education Human Resources from January 2025. So you should be able to access that through your university libraries. Jason, if folks would like to get ahold of you after the show, how can they find you?

Dr. Jason Lynch [00:48:45]: You can connect with me at LinkedIn. It's ln/jasonlynchphd, or my institutional email address is [email protected].

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:49:00]: And Jamarco, how about you?

Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:49:01]: Yes, you can reach me at [email protected]. J-A-M-A-R-C-O dot C-L-A-R-K at W-I-C-A-T-A dot E-D-U.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:49:14]: Thank you both so much for sharing your voices with us today.

Dr. Jason Lynch [00:49:17]: Thanks, Julie.

Dr. Jamarco Clark [00:49:18]: Thank you.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:49:19]: This has been an episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field brought to you by NASPA. This show is only made possible because of you, our listeners and our members. We continue to be so grateful that you choose to spend your time with us season after season. If you'd like to reach us here at the show, you can email us at [email protected]. Or find me on LinkedIn by searching for Dr. Jill L. Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:49:44]: If you're interested in appearing on the show yourself, please do contact us. We'd love it if you spend a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening from now. It really does help us in the student affairs community, as well as the podcasting community to help our show grow. This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton, that's me, produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint and New York University London for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

What happens when student affairs professionals become college parents themselves? The latest episode of "Student Affairs Voices from the Field" tackles this unique blend of personal and professional experience, yielding candid and relatable insights for anyone working in higher education—or embarking on the college transition with their own child.

Host Dr. Jill Creighton welcomes Dr. Gourjoine Wade and Miriam Khalil, both seasoned student affairs leaders, as they reflect on their experiences sending their own children off to university. Their stories illuminate the challenges, emotional dynamics, and surprising discoveries that arise when the boundaries between "the job" and "parenthood" blur in profound ways.

A core theme runs through the episode: The journey to college looks different for everyone, and no amount of professional expertise can fully prepare a parent for the emotional impact. Even though Dr. Gourjoine Wade had coached countless families through orientation, he shared that all of the professional advice went "blank" when it was his turn to drop off his daughter. Both Dr. Gourjoine Wade and Miriam Khalil note that their students—having grown up around campus life—were actually more prepared than many of their peers. This "insider knowledge" led to increased confidence for their children, demonstrating the subtle ways children absorb lessons from their parents' work.

Another important discussion centers on the balance between empowerment and involvement: how do you, as an expert, step back to let your own child take charge? Both guests emphasized the importance of encouraging independence, coaching their students through processes without taking over, and resisting the urge to leverage professional networks for shortcuts. It's about trusting the process—and the staff—just as they encourage other families to do.

The episode also confronts the role of privilege in the college journey, candidly acknowledging that not all families possess the same resources or insider knowledge. Dr. Gourjoine Wade and Miriam Khalil urge their student affairs colleagues to give grace to staff, offer support to fellow parents, and use their unique vantage point to enhance onboarding experiences for all.

Ultimately, this conversation shines a fresh light on how lived experience as a college parent can deepen empathy, inform more intentional practices, and bring both greater transparency and humanity to the world of student affairs.

If you're curious about how your colleagues are navigating college transitions with their own children, or simply want a heartfelt reminder of what families experience, this episode is a must-listen. Tune in and join the conversation!

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:01]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed professionals wherever you happen to be. This is season 15, Enhancing the Career Pathways and Well-Being of Student Affairs Professionals. I'm Dr. Jill Creighton, she/her/hers, your SA Voices from the Field host. Welcome back to Student Affairs Voices from the Field. Today, we have a really unique conversation to share with you between 2 student affairs professionals who are also sending their own young adult children to university this fall. So you're going to hear from them both as the administrators that they are in senior leadership positions in student affairs, as well as their perspective as parents.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:47]: I really loved this dialogue. Our first guest is Miriam Khalil Yousuf Khalil. Miriam Khalil is a higher education professional with extensive experience in academic advising, student success, retention, and institutional effectiveness across the GCC region. She's advised diverse student populations across disciplines and partnered with senior academic leaders to advance student retention, accreditation, quality enhancement, and student engagement initiatives. Her expertise includes academic advising, the first-year experience, assessment, and data-informed decision-making to support student achievement. An active contributor to the student affairs profession, Midyem has authored and contributed to NASPA publications, including articles featured in the NASPA Global publication of 2026, and has presented at regional and international conferences. Miriam Khalil is the Regional Director of IACIS in the Middle East. Through her collaboration with NCADA, she has supported efforts to advance academic advising practices and professional development opportunities within the Middle East region.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:40]: She currently serves as the Director of Academic Advising at Northwestern University in Qatar. Our next guest is Dr. Gorjwan M. Wade, who is a pioneering collegiate executive, higher education loyalist, student success champion, first-generation advocate, and talent cultivator with over 2 decades of transformative and inspirational shaping student access, achievement, and institutional excellence. Currently serving with the Alamo Colleges District as Vice President for Student Success at San Antonio College, Dr. Wade integrates strategy, compassion, and innovation to drive meaningful outcomes, fueling enrollment and retention growth, advancing first-generation persistence, and cultivating inclusive campus cultures where all students can thrive to build lives that they want. A proud first-generation college graduate originally from Louisiana and now rooted in Texas, Dr. Wade is nationally recognized for his outcomes-driven, data-informed, and student-centered leadership that challenges higher education to reimagine pathways for access, belonging, and student success.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:35]: Throughout his career, he's designed scalable first-generation programs at HBCUs and HSIs, initiated enrollment and retention strategies that improved persistence and graduation outcomes at 4-year universities and community colleges, secured millions in grants and stewarded fundraising relationships to strengthen the student experiences at private liberal arts institutions, and amplified institutional impact through innovative digital storytelling nationwide. He's also deeply committed to developing the next generation of higher education leaders through mentoring and national service. Dr. Wade earned a Doctorate of Education in Higher Education Leadership and a Master of Science in Higher Education Administration and a Bachelor of Public Administration with a minor in Political Science from Grambling State University. At the core of his kind leadership philosophy is an ongoing dedication to authenticity, transparency, inclusive excellence, and putting people first, with students and his team always at the center of the mission, anchored by a steadfast belief in the life-changing power of education, a belief he also champions as a board leader for Dollar Match, where he advances national efforts to close the college opportunity gap for first-generation students. A lifelong believer in the transformational impact of learning, Dr. Wade shares this passion for education with his wife, Shara, a dedicated K-12 education leader. Together, they emphasize the importance of learning, leadership, and service in their family, raising 2 wonderful daughters who inspire their commitment to building a better future through education.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:57]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field. So excited to have you here, Gourjwan.

Dr. Gourjoine Wade [00:04:01]: I'm excited to be here. Thank you for the opportunity to have a conversation today.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:04]: And Miriam Khalil, we're also very excited to have you in from Qatar today.

Miriam Khalil [00:04:08]: Thank you. And I'm very happy to be here and looking forward to the conversation.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:13]: This is an episode that I've been looking forward to recording for such a long time because I've got so many colleagues that are in the same boat. And it's a conversation we've been having, I think, in the profession for a while, but capturing it for SA Voices, I think, is going to give it some new perspective. And the topic today is student affairs professionals who are also sending their own students to university for the first time. There's so many things that we think about as professionals on our end as we're preparing to welcome students. I know on my campus, we just welcomed a whole bunch of new students and their families. And I know we have expectations for the experience that we're delivering for the students and their families, and I'm sure you do too. But then being on the other side and being the family that's being received, it's gotta just be such a wild different experience. So that's what we're gonna dig into today.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:02]: But before we go there, like to get to know you both just a little bit more. So, Gourjuan, starting with you, can you tell us how you got to your current seat in Texas?

Dr. Gourjoine Wade [00:05:11]: Absolutely. And thank you for everyone listening and having conversation with us today. So, I landed in Texas. Texas was not unfamiliar. Before that, I was in Louisiana. I was the AVP and eventually interim vice president at my undergrad alma mater, which was the same space that I did my work study. So, that's a whole nother conversation for another day. Ended up going to Texas Lutheran University as the VPSA.

Dr. Gourjoine Wade [00:05:36]: And then here at San Antonio College as the Vice President for Student Success. Before that, I was actually teaching as an adjunct here, and my students kind of coerced me into seeking the opportunity, just hearing their feedback. And then fast forward, and here I am today. So looking forward to our conversation and getting a chance to talk about all the things dad and student affairs and sending my kid off. So.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:00]: Excellent. And Miriam, how about you? Hi.

Miriam Khalil [00:06:03]: Thank you for hosting us. Well, prior to joining Northwestern Qatar in 2021, I was in the UAE where I was a senior academic advisor and an adjunct faculty in the School of Business and the School of Arts and Science at the American University in Dubai. So more than 10 years experience in academic advising, working with students from day one until graduation, and it's a profession that I really enjoy, although my background is in finance and banking, but I would always choose advising as a career.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:42]: So why don't you go ahead and tell us about your now adult children who are students at university? Who are they and where did they go?

Dr. Gourjoine Wade [00:06:50]: Well, I'll start. For me, I've got one daughter, well, 2 daughters. My now college student who is a musical theater kid, you know, we started the process, I believe, kind of late. You know, for me, I'm a first-gen college student 3 times. So we felt, my wife and I, like she was also a first-gen student, that we were going into the process a little bit more prepared than we were. And we found that to be grossly inadequate from all things scholarship to all things about housing, res life, which is my background is housing and residence life. I was like, yeah, we got this, we're ready, let's go. And I was not ready.

Dr. Gourjoine Wade [00:07:27]: So we went on the college tours and all the things about a year and a half ago. She landed at the University of Texas at Arlington. pursuing her Bachelor of Fine Arts degree in musical theater. We rolled up there early in August and dropped her off. And, you know, we were both just kind of looking, my wife and I, like, I think we're ready for her to go. And she was looking at us like, we're ready for you. I'm ready for y'all to go. And, and that was it.

Dr. Gourjoine Wade [00:07:54]: You know, before the drop-off, you know, so many folks were like, you know, you're gonna cry, you're gonna be so intense, it's gonna be crazy. And we did not have those emotions. And I think for multiple reasons. One specifically, I think we had kind of prepared for it. You know, I have facilitated countless number of conversations at orientations, parent family orientations, talking about the transition and letting your kids go. And to be on that side of the spectrum now was really weird. So we dropped her off and she was good and we were good and we all rode off and, and that was it. And, you know, she came home for Labor Day, everything was great.

Dr. Gourjoine Wade [00:08:28]: She drove home, drove back. It's good. So, you know, for me it was, that was my firstborn child. You know, I had shared her journey in social media spaces, so people were familiar with where she was going and how she got there. So it was just an exciting time. Uh, it was not sad, right? I think for us it was just about almost kind of like a congratulatory thing. Like we had all collectively gotten her to that space and letting her kind of go off and be her best version of herself. And it was like a joyous time.

Dr. Gourjoine Wade [00:08:56]: So it didn't feel sad, still feel good. You know, she texts every now and then. Uh, I'm not one of those parents that are like, you better call me every day and check in. No, she texts, she checks in randomly. I'm good. So good to have her in her, her own space doing her own thing.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:15]: Ghorjawan, when you were in the process of kind of being on that receiving end of parent orientation from what is now UT Arlington, how was that experience knowing that usually you're the other person giving that presentation?

Dr. Gourjoine Wade [00:09:30]: It was kind of weird. Again, you know, so I've been in those spaces multiple times and But nowhere in this transition for me as a parent did I ever think about the things that I was telling other parents in orientation. It was like it all went blank. Like I, I had, uh, none of that stuff came to mind. None of the helicopter parents or, you know, the safety and security tips or the reminders to check in. None of that stuff came to my mind. It only came to me after I realized that she was gone. And then it was like, hmm.

Dr. Gourjoine Wade [00:10:02]: How am I gonna prepare for her being gone? What do I need to do? And my wife and I, we just kind of played it by ear. And, you know, again, I think my wife who was on the K-12 side of the education spectrum, she was very much, you know, make sure you call me every day and tell me how your classes are going. And for me, it was just kind of like, ah, you know, just go out there and YOLO, live your best life, have fun, you know, make good choices and do all the things that you feel like you need to do. And I feel like we have prepared her to go out and be the best version of herself. So I, I've been really content with that. And when I think about those conversations with parents, um, the tears and the, can I put my head on your shoulder at those type of orientation type events? I was like, I don't have that. And, and maybe it's because I'm a practitioner and I've been prepared more than the average parent. But it was, it was almost like a foreign concept when I thought about, you know, how I emotionally had prepared to to let her go.

Dr. Gourjoine Wade [00:11:00]: So it was just a weird thing. Very weird.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:02]: Miriam Khalil, how about you? Tell us about your student.

Miriam Khalil [00:11:05]: So my firstborn daughter is the one going to university next week. Next week?

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:12]: Congratulations.

Miriam Khalil [00:11:13]: Yeah, because, thank you. It's a British curriculum, so they don't start early. She's going to Ulster University, but she chose the campus here in Qatar. So initially she wanted to go to Spain for her university education, But because she's not 18 yet, she had to change her, she had to change her plans. And then she's like, okay, I'll go to the UAE for education. She applied, got accepted, did all the exams. And then around April, she's like, mom, I don't think I'm ready to leave the house. And I'm like, what do you wanna do? She's like, I'm gonna apply to CUQ here.

Miriam Khalil [00:11:50]: They have the major. I said, do what you want. So I like to make her own the decision that she makes, to be accountable for every single decision. So she applied on her own. I did not interfere with any application, anything. And then she's like, can we go have a tour at the university? I said, of course. Uh, we went there. She's happy.

Miriam Khalil [00:12:13]: Uh, she'll be registering next week. Her orientation is next week. But what I found, because I mean, she has nothing to do this week, so she has been coming with me to work and she's been watching my conversations with the student and So I felt in a way our kids observe us while working, especially like the days we work remotely, they listen to our conversations with the students. So we are preparing them in a way. They're not new to what's happening. They know what to expect. So I believe they're really ready. And sometimes they feel that they can do our job.

Miriam Khalil [00:12:50]: Like sometimes you have those conversations with students acting like an advisor, like she knows what she's doing.

Dr. Gourjoine Wade [00:12:56]: Yeah.

Miriam Khalil [00:12:57]: I think we do a good job preparing our students, I mean, our kids who are now students to the next stage in life. I'm not experiencing her being out of the house. I might experience that in a year when she transfers. I don't think it's easy. And I come from a culture where we don't leave the house. I mean, when we go to college, like in Lebanon, I went to university, but I stayed with my parents. So if she ever decides to transfer and leave the country, then yeah, then I think it's not gonna be really easy for me as a parent and I'll be more worried.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:35]: So when you're thinking about this process of transitioning your student to university, Miriam Khalil, you said that your student was probably more prepared than the average student. Ghorjwan, would you agree with that? You said, you talked about it from the parent perspective, but how about your student?

Dr. Gourjoine Wade [00:13:48]: Yeah, I felt that when you said that, Miriam Khalil, 'cause I agree 110%, you know, and I heard a lot of that when we took my daughter to orientation early early in the summer. And then she would come back from between the sessions and she was like, I don't really need this stuff. And I was like, why? She said, 'cause you've told me most of this stuff and I already know it. And I've seen it, you know, when I worked at, you know, Texas Lutheran University, as I said earlier, you know, I facilitated a lot of the conversations for orientation even at my previous institution before that. And she's always kind of been in tow, you know, as Miriam said, you know, our kids in this practitioner life, they're really kind of in tow with us for so many different things, not just athletic events and not just social events, but also the work, the meat and potatoes of what we really do, those conversations. And they pick up on those things. And she talked a lot about, you know, what she had heard and learned and saw and felt from just being around different college campuses. So it wasn't a foreign concept.

Dr. Gourjoine Wade [00:14:44]: Again, I think that's the great part of her being a second-gen student, right? Is that she's not going into this blind like myself and my wife were. You know, all those things were foreign concepts for us. But she is so much more prepared and she talks about that very frequently. You know how when we landed at move-in day, she had an idea of what the process was gonna be, 'cause I'd already kind of briefed her 'cause I've coordinated move-in days before. So all these things were kind of like, oh, she knew what to expect. And I think it helps with the anxiety of transitioning into a college space, not just for the student, but I think for the parents as well. You know, because we have, they've been with us living these experiences for so long. You know, I've worked in higher ed now, this is my 22nd year on and off between private student housing and just exclusively working on a campus.

Dr. Gourjoine Wade [00:15:31]: My kids have been there for most of that, so they are not foreign concepts for them. So I agree with that, you know, and I think that she was better prepared and is better prepared now to understand what office hours are and all those different nuances that we talk about in orientation and all these conversations. She goes into those things like, oh yeah, I should go to office hours because I need my instructors and my faculty to know who I am because they're valuing that. So yeah, that's huge benefit to our kids by us being in these roles. Absolutely.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:16:01]: What about your own preparation in terms of your attending these orientation sessions? Gourjohan, we've already talked about you kind of knowing that you've been the one delivering these, but how did your own experiences change how you approached going into the spaces in terms of the questions you had or what you expected from the university?

Dr. Gourjoine Wade [00:16:18]: So I went into it with a lot of grace for my colleagues. Um, and I didn't ask a lot of questions. And, and part of that is because my daughter and I, we had conversations beforehand and she was like, don't be that person. Right? Don't, don't go into the space. You know, I know you know this stuff, but let the people do their job. So don't go asking and quizzing and being that guy. All right.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:16:41]: So I was like, don't embarrass me, dad.

Dr. Gourjoine Wade [00:16:43]: Exactly. She was like, don't do that. You know it. I know you know it. Just let them do them. So I was, I was very intentional about that. I just kind of sat back in the space in a nice little corner in the room. My wife had some questions, but I think she was just kind of just showing off.

Dr. Gourjoine Wade [00:16:59]: But for me, I purposefully didn't ask a lot of things. I did kind of engage with colleagues post some of those public sessions and just kind of quiz them on some things and kind of say, hey, you know, tell me more about this, because I don't want to ask questions in the big setting and draw more attention. But I was very intentional about You know, respecting my colleagues and their craft, right? You know, because they're, they are the experts, they know what they're doing. And I, I did find myself taking a lot of mental and physical notes just about their different processes, right? You know, about what the tour experience was like, what was the information that was being shared and who was sharing it? You know, what did the space look like for the welcome center? So those type of things I was making a lot of notes about. But just from the parental standpoint of just kind of giving my colleagues a hard time and quizzing folks. I stood down, but I did post those sessions, also share good feedback so they can have that just from a standpoint of, you know, a fresh set of eyes who kind of is familiar with this work. This might be helpful. And a lot of them took that very positively.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:01]: Miriam Khalil, how about you? How did your work change the way you approached the student experience?

Miriam Khalil [00:18:06]: So of course I'm going to go there and ask about what I know best, which is academic advising. And when we had the tour in the university, I'm like, like, can you please take me to Student Affairs? So they showed me where Student Affairs is, and my question was like, how's she going to register for her classes? Is she going to choose her own timing? What is it? And they're like, no, no, no, no, she doesn't need to worry about that. We have modules set for all students in year 1, and she does not have to worry about that. Because again, it's a different curriculum from the one that I advise. So I tried as much as I can to understand how her first semester will go. But I mean, because first it was a transition for me. They take it as a year, not as semesters, because again, it's a British curriculum. And I'm like, oh, this is a learning curve for me.

Miriam Khalil [00:18:56]: I need to learn now her curriculum to be up to date when she asked me questions. And what I did, I mean, I asked those questions, then I connected her with the Student Affairs team. I said, try to engage as much as I can with this office. see if there are student jobs that you can be part of so that you can meet people in the community and have friends here and enjoy your time at the university. Because she was very active at her school with, with social life, and she got an award when she finished Year 12 for her engagement with the school and all the activities. So I wanted her to continue and still be motivated to do that. But sometimes they don't know the first step, who to connect with in order to be engaged. So I just did this connection part, and I'm really hoping she has a fantastic year one at the university.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:19:53]: Now, with all the expertise that you both bring to the table and knowing exactly, for the most part, how systems work or what students need to do to advocate for themselves, Talk to us about dancing that line between being the parent who knows exactly what needs to happen and empowering your student to take that action.

Dr. Gourjoine Wade [00:20:10]: Yeah, so that's a good one. I found myself in that, in that boat right before my daughter landed on campus because she was wanting to switch residence halls. And, you know, it was easy for me to want to jump in and say, oh, I know that person, let me reach out to them. But I was very intentional about, you know, this is how you go and find the information, and this is what you should say when you find that person to talk to. This is the process and how it should look, but you're gonna run point on that. I think that we as practitioners of our craft have a responsibility to, number one, still respect processes and people who are leading those processes on these different campuses. But also, you know, the coachable, teachable moments of empowering your kids to be able to, to be those self-advocates for themselves. Because that's just what we really should do.

Dr. Gourjoine Wade [00:21:01]: That's what we tell our students, right? We tell our students that, you know, you should be able to speak for yourself and formulate those emails and ask those really thoughtful questions to be your own best advocate. And I think we have to do those same things for our children. So, you know, for my daughter, it was very intentional to make sure she was prepared to do those things. And, you know, when she went through the process of the room change, she said, they tell me, they told me 2 weeks. I said, okay, so you should follow up in 2 weeks. And 3 weeks passed. And then we got to week 4. I said, well, you hadn't heard anything yet? She said, well, I didn't follow up.

Dr. Gourjoine Wade [00:21:35]: I said, okay, so you should reach out to somebody. And she did. And then the, the ball started to move a little bit. So again, I think it's important to be those advocates from our lens of encouraging and empowering them to really go out there and do these things on their own. You know, my, my daughter also had to, she needed to add a class because to keep her scholarship, She needed to really have about 15 to 16 hours each semester, and she was only at 13, you know. So we didn't go into the system and try to get her logged in and do it for her. We empowered her to say, you've gotta do these things on your own. And I think we've gotta really continue to press home those points.

Dr. Gourjoine Wade [00:22:10]: We can't practice what we preach. We, we gotta be mindful of that, right? We, we tell our students, our colleagues, the same stuff. I think it's important to tell our kids those same things, and it makes them a better student, and it makes the lives of our colleagues— much easier when they have students who are more prepared to handle these things on their own.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:28]: You mentioned something really interesting, Gourjuan, which is that you personally know the person on the other side that could take that phone call and, and make that change. And I can imagine that is so tempting, um, just to be like, oh, hey, I know X, Y, and Z person. I can just, you know, I have them on LinkedIn and probably their phone number.

Dr. Gourjoine Wade [00:22:48]: Yeah, that's true. And, you know, it's like, You don't wanna ring that bell, so to speak, you know, although in the background you may have sent a text message and said, hey, my kid is trying to do these things, so just keep a lookout for it. But on the front end, she's running the show and encouraging her to continue to stay consistent in that advocacy. And I think it makes them better at the end of the day, better young adults and preparing them for life beyond the college campus. So there are lots of lessons in that that I think we have to practice for them.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:19]: For sure. And, you know, just kind of keeping in our heads that, that social capital doesn't exist for all students and the realities of, you know, our work from those of us sitting in the seat versus our work when we're responding to our own students' need. And it's, I think it's an interesting dichotomy. Ultimately, the goal's always the same though, which is to support and help the student.

Dr. Gourjoine Wade [00:23:41]: Yeah.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:42]: Myrieme, how about your perspective on this?

Miriam Khalil [00:23:44]: I completely agree. I mean, Um, I grew up with parents and with an educational system that said, figure it out. So I have this philosophy of figure it out, do your own research first, try to do it. But when you reach a point where you need help, ask for help. So, I try to leave her and do her things on her own, but when she hit a point where she needs me, what I do is to Refer her to the different resources that she could use. I don't like doing the work for her. I want her to learn and try to build her own path because I want her to be accountable and responsible. And I'm not the— I mean, if I do things for her, I'm not teaching her anything.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:24:31]: So when you're thinking about teaching your students to advocate for themselves inside the university context, what does that sound like from a coaching perspective? Like, what advice would you give future parents who are also student affairs pros?

Miriam Khalil [00:24:45]: Hmm.

Dr. Gourjoine Wade [00:24:46]: That's a good one. Giving grace, I think is important, you know, all around. For me, I try to approach this from that lens. You know, I'm very mindful that our people in the student affairs world and outside of our world work really, really hard to provide experiences and services for our students and their parents and families to really have the best experience that they can have. And that they don't do these things lightly, right? That there's intention behind why the orientation is laid out the way it is. There's intention behind why move-in day, move-in slots are created the way they are. And just working with our colleagues to remind them of that. Like, we are on the other side of that spectrum.

Dr. Gourjoine Wade [00:25:34]: Just give grace to the why behind some things and to not go in with that badge of I am so-and-so and I'm an expert in this, to question why people do things the way they do. But there's a way to have collegial conversations behind the scenes and share that feedback. I think that's very, very important. And to make sure that you're not creating little mini versions of you that go on campus and say that my dad or my mom is so-and-so and they know how to do that job. I think that's important that we don't create those little minions that go in there and cause ruckus for people. That's important. So I would just remind my colleagues to make sure that you're not sending emissaries to these campuses to cause grief and harm to people because your kid comes from a world because they know their parents know how to do the work. Don't be that person.

Dr. Gourjoine Wade [00:26:25]: I think it's important to give grace to our folks and to use those experiences that we gained from this work To empower our kids to really be good ambassadors when they get to campus so they can help other students with the knowledge that they know and not create havoc for folks.

Miriam Khalil [00:26:41]: I fully agree with you. I mean, we need to teach our kids to respect the expertise of others. If they're not doing things the same way we do it, that doesn't mean they're doing the wrong thing. Different institutions have different cultures, different policies. And each person is in the best position to explain what happens within their own institution. So I'm not gonna go to another institution and teach them how to do things. And I don't expect them to come and teach me how to do things. Everybody has a context, so we have to respect the expertise of others and all the time and efforts they're putting in also supporting their students, including our kids in this case.

Dr. Gourjoine Wade [00:27:24]: Right. And, and, and I think it's also important, you know, I find myself being a, a parental ambassador at move-in day for my daughter because I heard some other parents that were kind of grumbling about some things and process-wise. So I would just kind of say, hey, you know, I know some of these things from my former life. Let me give you some insight to why this is probably happening. And it helped parents to kind of de-escalate as well. So I think we have a responsibility for the craft, right, to be Good stewards and ambassadors to help people understand the why behind these things and not, you know, we know from move-in day, folks have been up since all times of the morning, up the day beforehand, checking keys, rosters, all these things. There's a lot that goes into it. The average parent doesn't know, and honestly, they really don't care.

Dr. Gourjoine Wade [00:28:13]: So I think for us, it's like, how can I, knowing what my colleagues went into doing to pull this off today, a massive undertaking on a move-in day. Let me share with these other parents, hey y'all, it's just not as simple as you think it is. There's more to it. And most folks understand that and they appreciate the context and they de-escalate and they bring it down a notch. Now that's not everybody, but I do think when we talk about, you know, our profession, we have a responsibility as parents in the profession to also help other people who are from the outside to kind of see why things work the way they work. And that helps, you know, in informal settings, I think, more than those formal settings that we're in.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:55]: How about your mentality changes in terms of how you view your student going from that high school environment where they're living at home or might continue to live at home, but now that transition to their early stages of adulthood? What have you had to do differently to think about your student and how to support them?

Dr. Gourjoine Wade [00:29:13]: So we give my daughter, she gets an allowance each month. We increased it a little bit, although she's no longer doing stuff around the house. So it doesn't seem very fair, but you know, we, we did not want her to kind of be stressing about little things. Right. You know, she's got meal plans, all that stuff, the dining dollars. She went and got her own job on campus. So she's very independent thinking. And I think we prepared her to, to move.

Dr. Gourjoine Wade [00:29:41]: like that because we don't want her to expect any handouts. You know, I think it's important for young people to be prepared as much as possible for life after college. And I think all these things help them to do that, you know, and she is in a situation where she doesn't have to stress about a lot of things. So these things just come natural for her to be prepared. You know, there are a lot of kids that are traversing our campuses that don't have the luxury of a direct deposit in their account each month or not having to worry about gas or, or food. So she comes from privilege that I didn't come from. So we wanna prepare her to, to utilize those things that she has to not only just give back to others, but to be better prepared for life after college. And, you know, I think it's very, very important.

Dr. Gourjoine Wade [00:30:28]: She, she told me about, um, some folks in her, her friend group, you know, They, tuition is paid and, you know, they don't have any stress. You know, we are on tuition payment plans, right? And to help her understand that this is something that you are doing that we're all sacrificing for you to have. And it's not about being grateful. It's not about being privileged. It's not about being, you know, any of those things. It's just about appreciating where you are, what you have, and knowing that somebody is not in that same situation. Um, good or bad. And just preparing good citizens to be on our different college campuses, whether it's a community college, uh, or R1 or whatever the case may be.

Dr. Gourjoine Wade [00:31:08]: And just making sure that she understands that these are all life lessons for life after college, right? You'll, you'll make friends, you'll lose friends, you'll have drama. All those things will happen. How are you prepared to deal with them? And I think we've done, my wife and I, a really good job in trying to prepare for those things that we know will be coming, but also preparing her to emotionally deal with things that we can't plan for. And I think that's one of the most important things that we should be doing in our roles as just parent and practitioner is preparing our young person for all the inevitabilities that could come their way.

Miriam Khalil [00:31:44]: You know, I mean, just want to raise a slightly different point. Like this year, more than any other year in my career, I felt I relate more with the first years because There's a lot of resemblance with my daughter, like their needs, the things that they complain about, the things that make them happy. So I feel having her at home was, I mean, is also teaching me more about her generation, uh, to be more equipped when working with them and knowing more what, what's important and what matters for them. So I'm looking at the other way here in the relationship. I, I believe she was preparing me better mentally. mentally to, you know, with my first-year students. And on the other hand, as you mentioned, my daughter as well. I mean, she's staying with me.

Miriam Khalil [00:32:41]: We cover everything for her, but then she's like, if I start learning how to drive, would you get me a car? And I'm like, of course not. You'll use the metro like any other university student. I'm not buying you a car. Yeah. Like everything else is covered. Just take this metro and you'll get there.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:00]: What has being the parent of a first-year student taught you about your practice in student affairs, higher education? And inversely, what does bringing that student to campus mean for your practice in terms of what you learned from that institution?

Dr. Gourjoine Wade [00:33:16]: Hmm. I think for me, it has, it has made me a better practitioner for a lot of reasons, you know, because I'm now more attentive to I've always been very mindful of the college-going experience as a group event, you know, that it's not just the student, it's everybody that is attached to that student coming to college and trying to really focus on what that experience looks and feels like for all the people involved. Now I'm, I'm very much in tune to that a little bit more. So I'm very mindful of parent and family orientations and And what the intentionality needs to be behind those, you know, and what we need to really be focused on. And that it really shouldn't be in many ways a one-size-fits-all approach. I saw that and listened to parents when I took my daughter to her orientation. You could just see and feel it from just different pockets in the space that some people were like fish outta water. Others were like, this is great.

Dr. Gourjoine Wade [00:34:16]: How do we carve out an experience of onboarding for students, no matter where they come from and who they are, and being very targeted and strategic with that. So that's one of the key takeaways for me from that lens. The other piece is very much listening more to what students tell us they wanna see at these different experiences, right? You know, we, we give out the swag, We have the backgrounds for pictures and photos. We have the stuff all around campus, but is that for us or for students, right? Like what, what is that stuff? Is, are we just doing that because we've always done it? And trying to be very intentional with what does the experience look like when you're coming over the hill? And I said coming over the hill from my undergrad, you know, there's a hill when you come over it, you, you see the campus once you come down the hill. What does that look and feel like for our individual campuses when you come over the hill? that ah when you come to our spaces? And have we asked stakeholders what that should look like, right? You know, we did that at a previous institution. We got some folks in a room and said, what does this— what should it feel like when you first come to campus? And now, as I've seen that from a seat as a parent transitioning a student to campus, I get it more than I did beforehand and trying to be very intentional about what that looks and feels like. So I've had great takeaways from the parent seat now that I can use as a practitioner. And I'm really looking forward to kind of putting some of those things in place.

Dr. Gourjoine Wade [00:35:51]: And we've already started some small things, but I'm really excited about what I've learned as a parent now of a college-going student to help me in my work.

Miriam Khalil [00:36:00]: Yeah, I agree. We just learn what's important and what matters through those interactions because we can relate more. Again, it's different. When you have your, you're sending your own to, to the university, it's slightly different. You sympathize more.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:20]: What's harder, receiving thousands of first-year students or sending your own student to university for the first time?

Dr. Gourjoine Wade [00:36:27]: Receiving for me. Yeah. Receiving for me and, and full, full transparency. The drop-off transition for me went much better than I thought it was going to. And I think I listened to so many other people that said, oh, you're gonna cry. You're gonna do this. And we were just really excited and proud, right? I think I think we had gotten all the tears out from the senior year stuff, you know, the, the, the videos and the senior send-offs and all those things. It was like, oh my God, that was the emotional tug right there.

Dr. Gourjoine Wade [00:36:55]: But the, the college part was kind of like, wow, look what we did. Right? And there was this immense level of pride more than anything. So I would definitely—

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:05]: Yeah.

Dr. Gourjoine Wade [00:37:06]: I'll take that any day over the, the 1,000 people coming with all kinds of gripes and grumbles and some excitement, Yeah, no, uh-uh. I'll take that any day.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:17]: Yeah.

Miriam Khalil [00:37:18]: And you think, how did this happen? Like when I look at my daughter, I can't believe, I mean, she's going to university. Honestly, I don't know how those years passed.

Dr. Gourjoine Wade [00:37:27]: So fast.

Miriam Khalil [00:37:28]: But, but really, she, she, she made me a really, really proud mom. She'd not give me any hard time anyway, going to school or doing everything or applying to university. She's a great kid. And on the receiving part, I enjoy receiving students and I do cry during their convocation.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:49]: Yeah, same.

Miriam Khalil [00:37:51]: Because also, I mean, there are other parents out there who are also proud of those students and they come from different backgrounds, different journeys, different stories. And sometimes, you know, they display some of those stories during convocation and it really gets me emotional. I mean, because sometimes our kids might have an easy path, but there are a lot of kids out there who did not enjoy what our kids have. And it took a lot of effort to get them to university.

Dr. Gourjoine Wade [00:38:28]: Yeah, I would agree with that full-heartedly. And I will tear up in a minute. I'm very connected to my emotions in this work, you know, because I see the power of what education does. And I would agree with Miriam Khalil. I'll cry at an orientation, a welcome event, just thinking about what students went through to be in those spaces with us. But with my own kids, you're like, all right, she's outta here. We'll see her later.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:54]: Both of you have held leadership positions in student affairs. I'm wondering how these experiences might have changed Or changed your viewpoint on how you supervise team members who are sending students to college?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:39:07]: Hmm.

Dr. Gourjoine Wade [00:39:07]: That's a good one. I actually have a colleague who also sent her daughter to college this semester, so we would have multiple conversations about what that looks and feels like. I've always tried to be a person that's very attentive to the needs of my team outside of the workspace and making sure that they have space and opportunity to balance all things home with all things work. And that has not changed for me. If anything, I'm more sensitive to making sure when we're planning things around the start of the semester, being very, very intentional about what that looks like for my folks and making sure that they know, don't stress about the stuff that we got going on here. These are once in a lifetime home events that you have to be there for, right?

Miriam Khalil [00:39:54]: Yes.

Dr. Gourjoine Wade [00:39:54]: I don't want people worrying about what's happening at work when they should be trying to make the last minute Target run to go drop their kid off at college. So, you know, just trying to give people space and grace to focus on the now of what that feels like, because everybody processes it differently. And I never want to be that boss that gives people a hard time to say, you know what, you can't focus on that because I need you at my meeting. No, I don't want to be that person. So.

Miriam Khalil [00:40:19]: Yeah, it's once in a lifetime. So we need to offer flexibility and empathy and give them space to enjoy this moment with their kids. And come back to work happy.

Dr. Gourjoine Wade [00:40:32]: That's it. And have my shoulder prepared for folks who need to lean on it. That's it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:39]: One of the staff members I work with just sent their first student to kindergarten this week.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:40:45]: Oh.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:46]: So they were seeing transition of these university students, but then also sending their student for the very first time.

Dr. Gourjoine Wade [00:40:51]: Yeah, that's a whole different type of, wow. That's a tough one.

Miriam Khalil [00:40:56]: The kindergarten. I remember speaking of this, my son was, I think, 4 weeks old when I sent him to daycare because I had no option. And it was so weird because I cry easily. And that day I did not cry. And the supervisor, she's like, you're not gonna cry? You're dropping your son here? And I'm like, isn't he in safe hands? And she looked at me, she's like, I'm like, yeah, I said, okay.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:22]: Fair enough.

Miriam Khalil [00:41:23]: When I remember that moment, I'm like, why? But sometimes when you're under pressure and you have to do things, you just do it and emotions come later.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:34]: I'm gonna transition us to our theme questions for the season. They're a little bit of a different flavor than the conversation we've had so far, but with both of you having tremendous expertise in the field, very much looking forward to your thoughts. So, our first question is, what's one easy thing and one hard thing that a supervisor can do to enhance the career pathway of the people they're charged with leading?

Dr. Gourjoine Wade [00:41:57]: That's an easy one. Just be easy to deal with, right? I think that, you know, there's no long drawn-out, you know, professorial response to this one for me. I think it's, if you are easy to deal with, then folks will be able to manage all the things, life and work, from you as a leader of a team. You know, I lead from a space of kind leadership, and I think from that lens, People always take priority, and kind leadership is not a sign of being weak. It's not being, you know, easy on people. It's just being a good human. And I think that those folks make the best leaders. And when you do that, you ready folks to be able to accomplish any work-related goals without stressing about things that are impacted at home.

Dr. Gourjoine Wade [00:42:40]: And if we can continue to do that and have more leaders that take that lead, then we will have a profession that will outlast all of the drama that we could have by just having good people leading.

Miriam Khalil [00:42:54]: I would say just show up, be present, and offer different ways for people to communicate with you. Don't create barriers and create a trusting environment where people can approach you without a second thought and be the support that they need in their work. But showing up is really, I mean, being present mentally and physically present is very, very important.

Dr. Gourjoine Wade [00:43:27]: Yes, I agree with that.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:29]: And our second question, what might you want vice presidents of student affairs to consider regarding the holistic wellbeing of student affairs professionals that perhaps they're not already thinking about?

Dr. Gourjoine Wade [00:43:40]: I think for me, it's, we get so caught up in the work that we really forget that the leadership seat has so much impact on people outside of work.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:52]: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Gourjoine Wade [00:43:53]: And, and always being mindful of that. And I'm not talking about, you know, the decisions of reporting structure, or this is the assignment or the task. I'm talking about just being a, a good person to people. And not losing sight of how we got in these seats and understanding that there's such immense responsibility for people when you're in leadership roles that go far beyond the work expectations that people carry home, how you treat them in the workspace, and that, that requires us, or it should require us to show up as our best genuine, authentic selves. And to just be good to people. I'll just continue to beat that point home because I really think that's the key to everything is that when folks pull up to their offices or their campuses and they sit in the car dreading going into a space, what does the leader do to impact that feeling? And I think it's important for us to be the opposite of that. Like, people should be excited to come to work and to come to our campuses and support our colleagues and, and love on our students. That starts with leadership and, and, and reminding our colleagues to always keep that front of mind.

Miriam Khalil [00:45:03]: I would say, I mean, we all know that they have a lot of responsibilities to take care of, but if they can be intentional in creating spaces for people at different levels in their career to share ideas, feedback, like, listen, sometimes all people want is to be heard.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:23]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:45:29]: Thanks, Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world, and there's a ton of things happening in NASPA. The 2026 NASPA Institute for New Vice Presidents for Student Affairs is happening December 6th through the 9th on Amelia Island in Florida. The NASPA Institute for New Vice Presidents for Student Affairs is a foundational faculty-led learning and networking experience that prepares new VPSAs to be strategic decision makers. Strategic decision makers, highly effective managers, and transformational leaders. This professional development opportunity is designed for first-time VPSAs and other highest-ranking senior student affairs officers on campus, such as a vice chancellor and deans of students, depending on organizational structure, who have not assumed office or are in the first 2 years of their first VPSA position. Participants must be the highest-ranking student affairs officer on their campus. The early registration deadline ends ends on October 30th, 2026, and featured speakers include Dr.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:46:34]: Amelia Parnell, the president of NASPA, and more. Some of the learning outcomes that you'll find in this, in this institute include examining leadership values and competencies, strengthening cross-functional collaboration, navigating institutional change and strategy, and building and sustaining a network of peers. Following the institute, There will be a 2026 NASPA VPSA Winter Convenion, also on Amelia Island, from December 9th through the 11th. On these dates, NASPA will convene VPSAs at Amelia Island for 3 days of learning and networking in a setting carefully designed to facilitate peer-to-peer exploration of the most pressing, current, and emerging challenges facing student affairs leaders and other campus executives, and other campus executives, their institutions, and higher education more broadly. The convening will also provide the rare opportunity for reflection and rejuvenation in a community of peers. The co-conveners of the convening are Pauline Burke, Vice President for Student Affairs at Stonehill College, Jason Piña, Senior Vice President for University Life at New York University, and Deandra Mall, Vice Chancellor for Student Life at the University of Colorado Boulder. A reminder that the NASPA 2027 Strategies Conference is happening January 7th through the 9th. The NASPA Strategies Conference provides student affairs practitioners with the knowledge and skills to effectively address collegiate alcohol and drug misuse prevention, mental health, sexual violence prevention and response, peer education, and wellbeing through a variety of comprehensive and integrative approaches.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:48:14]: The conference brings together individuals with interests in all of these different academic areas, All of these different areas that impact the student experience. And if you've never explored this conference before, it is an amazing opportunity to be able to come together with people with like interests, to learn, to grow, and to be able to build a network to be able to draw from for your own, for the things that you're trying to create and sustain on your own campuses. The early bird registration deadline for this conference is October 20th, 2026. So there you— so you still have time to be able to get in during the early bird rate. And I encourage you to go to the NASPA website to find out more about the program and the schedule and to learn to see whether or not this conference is the right fit for you. Go to events.naspa.org to learn more. Finally today, I want to encourage you to go to the NASPA website to take a look at the NASPA blog. Inside the NASPA blog are articles that are submitted from individuals throughout the association that talk about their own experiences and also things that they are doing to be able to assist with the student experience on their campuses.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:49:29]: And one really great article that came out in September is from Sarah Harris of Baylor University, where she reflects on navigating NASPA as a doctoral student. Many of you may have been doctoral students at one point or may want to be a doctoral student in the future. And Sarah does a great job of being able to talk about her own experience with NASPA as she has been a doctoral student. To find the NASPA blog, it's very easy. Go to naspa.org, and when you get there, go under the latest to blog, and you can find all the different blog articles listed right there. Every week we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back, within one of the centers or the divisions of the association.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:50:38]: And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself, where do you fit? Where do you want to give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and And the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:51:32]: Chris, thank you so much for keeping us informed on what's going in and around NASPA. It's always a pleasure to hear from you and keeping us informed. And Medium and Gourjwan, we have reached our famous lightning round where I've got 7 questions for you to answer in about 90 seconds. Are you both ready to do this?

Dr. Gourjoine Wade [00:51:50]: Let's go.

Miriam Khalil [00:51:51]: Ready.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:51:51]: All right. Question number 1, if you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music I Did It My Way.

Dr. Gourjoine Wade [00:51:57]: T.I., let them know.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:51:59]: Number 2, when you were 5 years old, what did you want to be when you grew up?

Miriam Khalil [00:52:03]: An artist.

Dr. Gourjoine Wade [00:52:04]: I wanted to be an Air Force pilot.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:52:05]: Number 3, who's your most influential professional mentor?

Miriam Khalil [00:52:09]: It's an old colleague, actually, Dr. Ashmaoui. He was the Dean of Engineering. He taught me how to do advising.

Dr. Gourjoine Wade [00:52:16]: I will say Dr. Rick Gallo, previous president and supervisor, who also was my commencement speaker when I was an undergraduate.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:52:23]: Number 4, your essential student affairs read.

Miriam Khalil [00:52:27]: I mean, all the NASPA publications.

Dr. Gourjoine Wade [00:52:30]: I'm keeping The Caring University close by. I think Kevin's amazing, and I'm trying to keep that one close because I think it's very applicable these days more than ever.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:52:38]: Shout out to Dr. Kevin McClure. We just had him on the pod a couple of months ago. So if you're interested in hearing that conversation, go ahead and head back to our episode releases from the spring. Number 5, the best TV show that you've been binging lately.

Miriam Khalil [00:52:51]: I've only been watching the news recently.

Dr. Gourjoine Wade [00:52:54]: I can't get off of Game of Thrones. I'm a Game of Thrones fan. I've just rewatched the original series all over again. It's still amazing. So Game of Thrones.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:53:01]: Number 6, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

Miriam Khalil [00:53:06]: Matt Markin, the academic advising podcast, The Adventures in Academic Advising.

Dr. Gourjoine Wade [00:53:11]: I'm a news connoisseur, so Pod Save America is one of my top podcasts.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:53:16]: And finally, number 7, any shoutouts you'd like to give either personal or professional?

Miriam Khalil [00:53:21]: Of course, I'll give a shout out to my daughter for making me proud and to my team at work for, I mean, we completed second week of classes. They were amazing.

Dr. Gourjoine Wade [00:53:32]: Definitely shout out my daughter for just being the best version of anything I can expect her to be. My wife is starting a new job this year as a principal, so she's had a very amazing start to her year. Kind of crazy with the foot injury, but she's out there. And to my colleagues, Not just Miriam here on this pod, but just, you know, you, Jill, and all of our folks. August is always crazy. September is like crazy. But as we're just trying to navigate all the things, just wanna shout out all of our folks to keep showing up and doing the work.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:53:58]: It's been a pleasure getting to know you both a little bit more on the pod today. If anyone would like to connect with you after this airs, how can they find you?

Miriam Khalil [00:54:05]: On LinkedIn. And my personal email is [email protected].

Dr. Gourjoine Wade [00:54:13]: Yeah. And you can find me out there on social media, specifically on LinkedIn, and it'll track me down from all the other spaces. Dr. Gourjoe Iemwade, G-O-U-R-J-O-I-E-M-W-A-D-E on LinkedIn. And we look forward to having more connections and follows to continue to talk about our work.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:54:31]: Thank you both so much for sharing your stories and your voices with us today.

Dr. Gourjoine Wade [00:54:35]: Thank y'all.

Miriam Khalil [00:54:36]: Thank you.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:54:37]: This has been an episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field brought to you by NASPA. This show is only made possible because of you, our listeners and our members. We continue to be so grateful that you choose to spend your time with us season after season. If you'd like to reach us here at the show, you can email us at [email protected] or find me on LinkedIn by searching for Dr. Jill L. Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. If you're interested in appearing on the show yourself, please do contact us.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:55:06]: We'd love it if you spend a moment Take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening from now. It really does help us in the student affairs community, as well as the podcasting community to help our show grow. This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton. That's me. Produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint and New York University London for your support as we create this project.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:55:31]: Catch you next time.

In the latest episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field podcast, the conversation centers around one of NASPA's most dynamic offerings: the NASPA Strategies Conference. Host Dr. Jill Creighton is joined by Dr. Emma Spalding, Senior Director of Wellbeing Initiatives and Statewide Coalition Projects, and Whitney Platzer-O'Regan, Senior Director of Prevention and Safety Initiatives. Together, they explore not just the logistics and evolution of the Strategies Conference, but also the importance of holistic professional development in student affairs.

A Conference with Broad Appeal and Deep Impact

The NASPA Strategies Conference is unique in its ability to bring together five major content areas—Alcohol, Other Drug, and Violence Prevention; Mental Health; Peer Education; Sexual Violence Prevention and Response; and Wellbeing and Health Promotion Leadership—under one roof. This multi-conference environment means that professionals can tailor their experience, stepping between tracks and broadening their expertise far beyond their home specialties.

Both Dr. Emma Spalding and Whitney Platzer-O'Regan highlighted the power of breaking down traditional silos and building inter-campus connections, a theme that runs throughout the episode. The presence of undergraduate peer educators is particularly valuable; their on-the-ground perspective not only energizes the conference but also ensures its relevance for today's rapidly shifting campus realities.

Practical Tips and Professional Development

For newcomers, the advice is clear: take advantage of NASPA's dedicated first-time attendee sessions and make strategic use of the conference app to maximize your experience. The episode also delves into creative funding advice and action-planning for those hoping to bring students to the conference, emphasizing how this investment can have ripple effects campus-wide.

When the conversation turns to career pathways, Whitney Platzer-O'Regan and Dr. Emma Spalding remind supervisors and VPSAs that fostering professional growth—and prioritizing well-being—go hand in hand. Simple actions like encouraging PTO use and seeking out personal, not just role-related, professional development opportunities can significantly impact staff retention and satisfaction.

Why Listen?

This episode is a must for anyone considering attending NASPA Strategies or just wanting to recharge their professional batteries with actionable ideas. Whether you're a seasoned administrator or an emerging professional, the insight and encouragement offered by Dr. Jill Creighton, Dr. Emma Spalding, and Whitney Platzer-O'Regan will help you navigate both conference season and your broader career journey.

Tune in for an energizing, informative discussion on transforming your professional development and supporting the well-being of everyone in your student affairs community.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:01]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed professionals wherever you happen to be. This is season 15, Enhancing the Career Pathways and Well-Being of Student Affairs Professionals. I'm Dr. Jill Creighton, she/her/hers, your SA Voices from the Field host. Welcome back to another episode of SA Voices from the Field. Today we're featuring 2 NASPA staffers who are going to be talking to us all about the NASPA Strategies Conference. Our first guest is Emmis Balding, who serves as the Senior Director of Wellbeing Initiatives and Statewide Coalition Projects at NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:45]: She has been with NASPA for 7 years, and in her role, she oversees the Colorado Coalition of Campus Alcohol and Drug Educators, also known as CADE, and the Healthy Colleges Montana, or HCM. In addition, she works in the Inter-Association Wellbeing Collaborative, or IWC, representing NASPA along 20 other higher education associations. She also serves on the core team for planning the NASPA Strategies Conferences, and born and raised in Colorado, she still calls Denver home with her partner and pup. Our second guest is Whitney Platzer-O'Regan, Ed.D. Dr. Platzer-O'Regan serves as the Senior Director of Prevention and Safety Initiatives at NASPA. Whitney received her doctorate in educational leadership and policy from Peabody College at Vanderbilt University, where her research focused on student sense of belonging and engagement through a public health lens. She has significant experience working to reduce high-risk substance misuse on college campuses with functional area experience in student affairs, policy, student conduct, crisis response, peer education, and health promotion.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:44]: Welcome to our first-time guests on the pod, Whitney and Emma. Whitney, so lovely to meet you.

Whitney Platzer-O'Regan [00:01:50]: Hi, thank you so much for having me.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:51]: And Emma, so glad to see you as well.

Dr. Emma Spalding [00:01:53]: Yes, excited to be here with you today.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:56]: Whitney and Emma are 2 of our NASPA staffers, and we love having our NASPA staffers here on the pod. They're here today to talk specifically about the Strategies Conference that's coming up. And NASPA Strategies is such a longstanding staple of the NASPA community. I feel like it's an important gathering point for specialists in our field in particular areas, and it's just a very accessible conference for those who want to enter NASPA but are a little bit like, I don't want to be with 5,000, 7,000, 10,000 of my closest friends at Annual. So we'll get into all of that, but we love to start with getting to know our guests. Emma, so glad to have you in the conversation today. Welcome.

Dr. Emma Spalding [00:02:32]: Sure.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:33]: And I'd love to know from you, how did you get to your current seat at NASPA? And I specifically want to hear a little bit more about your work with Cade, just as a former peer educator and a former health promotion person in Colorado. It was so lovely to see that on your bio.

Dr. Emma Spalding [00:02:47]: Yeah, wonderful. Similar to Whitney, I've had a winding path to get where I am, but it started in undergrad, as many of us do, of having a wonderful experience with some great student affairs professionals on campus and planting the seed that I maybe wanted to go into this field. I took a few years off after undergrad before I ended up going to get my master's in higher education at the University of Denver. And while I was there, a graduate assistant position opened up. The Bacchus Initiatives of NASPA— previously the Bacchus Initiatives was a standalone nonprofit that merged with NASPA in 2014. And one of the signature projects that we worked on was CAEDAR, the Coalition of Colorado Alcohol and Drug Educators. And so for the 2 years I was getting my degree, I I started with NASPA full-time and have been working here since then. So just over 7 years.

Dr. Emma Spalding [00:04:02]: And alongside the CADE Coalition, I was able to work with our Healthy Colleges Montana, which is a coalition in the state of Montana that does similar work around health and wellbeing, but a focus and a foundation in commercial tobacco prevention. So I've definitely found my niche within higher education in this health and wellbeing space. Throughout my career at NASPA, I've had lots of opportunities for different roles and expansions, which is how I'm in the role I am today.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:31]: I love that you referenced the Bacchus Network. Just for a complete throwback, I earned my peer health educator certification as an undergrad when it was called Bacchus and Gamma. So it's gone through many, many iterations over the years, but with the same core.

Dr. Emma Spalding [00:04:43]: Yes, definitely.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:44]: Now, Emma, your current title is the Senior Director of Wellbeing Initiatives and Stateside Coalition Projects at NASPA. That's a lot of words.

Dr. Emma Spalding [00:04:52]: You've described some of the portfolio that you're leading right now, but what Alongside the 2 statewide coalitions in Colorado and Montana that I mentioned, I help with our national and international wellbeing work. And so one of the keystones of this, besides the NASPA Strategies Conferences, which we'll talk about, is the Inter-Association Wellbeing Collaborative, which is a conglomerate of over 20 higher education associations that serve different parts of higher education coming together with the shared goal of moving forward wellbeing on campus and Specifically in a systems and settings approach. So really thinking about how we change the campus environment, not just for students, but also for professionals, the staff and faculty on campus. And so it's a big group project. So it's been a lot of herding folks, but I think that it's really cool to have NASPA be part of the model of bringing together associations so that campuses can see that they can break down silos and work across campus as well, because everyone has a role in impacting the wellbeing of the campus environment.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:58]: And that's a really powerful area to do coalition building around because our students struggle with a similar wellness set of items on each campus. And there are so many different ways to approach wellness from a public health strategy perspective in the university setting. It's such a great initiative that you're working on. Emma, I'm wondering when a member might work with you directly.

Dr. Emma Spalding [00:06:18]: If any members are in Colorado and Montana and work in a health and wellbeing space, happy to have them be a part of the coalitions. It's a bummer we don't have coalitions in all 50 states managed by NASPA. Otherwise, I would work with folks that way. But the other opportunity is with the Wellness and Health Promotion Knowledge Community. So I get to liaison and work with the wonderful folks that are volunteer leaders for that knowledge community. And so currently our co-chairs are Samantha Smith out of Indiana University Bloomington and Amanda Waters out of University of Massachusetts Amherst. And so alongside them is a team of other folks, and that is a way that I get to connect with NASPA members most closely outside of our event at Strategies.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:02]: And Whitney, we're so glad to have you here on the pod. We're gonna ask you the same question. How did you get to your current seat at NASPA?

Whitney Platzer-O'Regan [00:07:09]: It was a long and winding road. Was a transfer student to an out-of-state institution, and I got my degree. I got my BFA in graphic design. I really wanted to tour the world with bands and create t-shirts and merchandise and do all of that. But lucky or unlucky enough, I graduated in 2008, which wasn't the greatest opportunity in the job market. And so I was lucky enough to get a job at Duke University in their university libraries. But what I realized was that it was way too quiet for me. I wanted to be back in student affairs.

Whitney Platzer-O'Regan [00:07:39]: I had found a home in my undergraduate experience as part of the programming board. And so I wanted to go back and do that. Through an arduous search process, I found a master's program that accepted me into higher ed and gave me a really great assistantship where I worked with amazing people in the Dean of Students Office. And it exposed me to a world, to the world of peer education and alcohol and drug prevention. And so professionally, I was able to really find development and intrigue and work that kept me on my toes through that topical area. And I was able to attend NASPA Strategies every conference season. That became my annual conference. And so I got to know people like Emma through that.

Whitney Platzer-O'Regan [00:08:20]: I got to know people like David Arnold. And so as I thought about what that next step was after I got my doctorate, an opportunity popped up at NASPA to work in safety and prevention broadly. And so it really was the great next step for me to help institutions think about their prevention work, making sure it's evidence-based, and really talk to them about the power of peer education.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:08:41]: And Whitney, your full title is the Senior Director of Prevention and Safety Initiatives at NASPA. What does that mean broadly?

Whitney Platzer-O'Regan [00:08:48]: My portfolio encompasses a couple things. Uh, any kind of AOD, alcohol and other drug prevention work, right? Making sure that people who are doing work in that functional area specifically are implementing evidence-based work, whether that is figuring out how to stop, start, or continue the work they're doing, right? Evaluate those pieces. My portfolio also encompasses the peer education program. Uh, we have a really strong leadership development program for peer educators called our Certified Peer Educator Program. It has a train-the-trainer component and subject matter trainings for undergraduate students around cannabis, mental health and wellbeing, and prescription drug misuse. And the portfolio that I oversee looks at the entire professional pathway, whether you're an undergraduate student, a new professional, mid-level, or even VPs who are looking to really solidify their alcohol and drug prevention work.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:42]: Now, the two of you come together to form a super team that is leading the work of NASPA Strategies. And this year, I understand Strategies is going to have some new flair to it. So I'm hoping we can start with what is the Strategies Conference for our members who may not be familiar?

Dr. Emma Spalding [00:09:56]: Yeah, I can start us off. The NASFA Strategies Conference brings together 5 different conferences in one. And so folks have the opportunity to attend sessions in a variety of health, safety, and wellbeing areas. And so the 5 conferences that we host as part of this event are the Alcohol, Other Drug, and Violence Prevention Conference, the Mental Health Conference, the Peer Education Conference, the Sexual Violence Prevention and Response Conference, and the Wellbeing and Health Promotion Leadership Conference. And so by offering all 5 conferences as one event, we're able to have folks attend sessions that relate to probably one of the many hats that they wear on campus. And we know that folks are not working solely, often not working solely in one of these areas, but can get the professional development they need across all these content areas.

Whitney Platzer-O'Regan [00:10:45]: And I'll just chime in that 2 years ago we brought what was formerly known as General Assembly under the conference's umbrella and renamed it the Peer Education Conference. And that's a really great opportunity for undergraduate students. We had almost 400 registered for the conference last year, and it's a really wonderful opportunity not only for students to come and learn from their peers, to present sessions for their peers, but to attend sessions from all of the other tracks. So it really is that next step opportunity for undergraduate student leaders to gain some expertise in topical areas, to connect professionally with peers and possible mentors from across the country, and really feel valued in their role as peer educators on campus.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:29]: I'm gonna emphasize something you both have mentioned, which is there are 5 conferences happening simultaneously, but you're not locked into one of the tracks. You can say, I wanna pick a session on peer education now, but the next session might be on mental health. I can switch to a sexual violence prevention session. So as mentioned, you might be someone who's focused on health promotion more broadly, or prevention work or healthy campus work more broadly, and really benefit from this particular environment because you're also connecting with professionals who may have those broad portfolio elements like you have.

Whitney Platzer-O'Regan [00:11:59]: Yeah, and I really think that if I think about topical areas that are often siloed on their campus, the Strategies Conference is a really great opportunity to build connections. We know Gallup says that to feel valued and healthy at work, you need to have a work bestie. And so being able to find to that person, make that connection. That is one of the goals at Strategies. And whether that's someone at your own institution who works at a different functional area or someone who works in your same functional area at a different institution, that is one of the really value adds to attending Strategies. I often think about the compliance person or the sexual violence prevention person who is just doing very specific work, and then they come to Strategies and they understand the intersection of alcohol use and sexual violence prevention. And so then they attend sessions around alcohol prevention. They're thinking about starting a peer education program, so they go to some peer education sessions, they talk to students around those topic areas, they talk to advisors, and it's a really great opportunity to spread your wings and figure out how to grow in your positions.

Dr. Emma Spalding [00:13:01]: I think additionally, it's an opportunity for folks to bring a whole team on the campus together to that event. So everything from the undergraduate student opportunities that Whitney talked about with the peer education conference to sessions that are focused on more senior leaders that are maybe directing strategy on their campus rather than implementing programs. And so each of the sessions throughout the event is going to indicate what topical area it is for, but also what level in your career that this is focused on so that there's an opportunity for everyone within a campus team to get some professional development and then hopefully come together as a team on campus with lots of ideas to take And this coming year, it's January 2027 in Austin, Texas.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:46]: The early bird registration deadline is coming very, very soon. So if you're interested in that early bird rate, we recommend that you get on that very quickly. The call for proposals has just closed, and so your reviewing process is underway. One of my favorite things about Strategies is if you get accepted, you also get a registration discount. So maybe not for this year's listeners, but for next year's listeners, maybe a little bit of a bump to head you in that direction. But thinking about what this conference can bring, if I'm new to this Strategies Conference, how should I approach my experience?

Whitney Platzer-O'Regan [00:14:17]: I would say start off with the first-time attendee session. We have really great colleagues at NASPA who host a first-time attendee session. They're staff from our membership team. They are going to share with you kind of how to navigate the conference specifically, as well as share with you the benefits of becoming a NASPA member and what a NASPA membership can do with you. I think that is often the first place that we recommend. It's kind of right at the top of the conference, and so it's a really great starting point, especially if you are there by yourself, you're an office of one, and you've shown up as the only person from your institution. They typically do some networking, grab your coffee in the morning, and get started with that first-time attendee session is a really great opportunity.

Dr. Emma Spalding [00:14:58]: Yeah. And then using the conference app, and there's a lot of offerings throughout the event, not as much as our annual conference, but it's NASPA's second or third large event. So making sure to look through all the offerings and get a sense of what sessions that you're interested in and looking at the different tags for that. And then on Thursday evening of our event, there is our opening reception, and that's a great place to connect with folks and really network. We also host our poster sessions as well as a session type called Take My Show on Your Road, which is a sort of tabling program sharing opportunity. And so a great way to connect a little more informally than those general interest sessions for folks to do that in a social environment.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:40]: What are the highlights for next year that may be new or different from previous years?

Whitney Platzer-O'Regan [00:15:45]: It's in a warm place, which is always a positive. We're typically in the cold tundra of a Chicago or a Boston or Indy, and this year we're in Austin, Texas, which is really great. I think one of the opportunities that will be really interesting for this year is that if we look at NASPA membership and where a lot of our member institutions are, it is largely dominated by the Southeast. So I anticipate there is going to be a lot of opportunity for people to drive in. Texas is a big state with a lot of membership institutions. So I, I anticipate a lot of show, like people showing up from Texas institutions that might not have been able to make it to Chicago or might not have been able to make it to Kansas City because they couldn't drive. And so the opportunity to explore some new institutional types, build relationships with colleagues who are at those institutions that you didn't necessarily connect with before could be a really interesting caveat for this year's Not new to this year, but I think it's a highlight of this event is that we offer a lot of continuing education credits and for a lot of different professionals.

Dr. Emma Spalding [00:16:51]: And so there's a great opportunity to get those. There's no additional cost to receive those as part of this event. So that's usually the case with other professional development opportunities. So we're hoping this coming year we'll be able to offer the CHEZ and MCHEZ certificate, NACP, which is for advocates. NASW for social workers and NBCC for counselors. So there's a lot of opportunity there to fulfill those requirements for your credentials.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:19]: I didn't know that we were certifying for so many. That's wonderful to, to hear that we're able to get people in the door and demonstrate that it's a good use of their time, not just from an educational perspective, but also that it's gonna meet requirements for their licensures. Thinking about something you said earlier, you mentioned that this is going to be the first year that the Peer Education Conference is kind of in this new format. What is that in terms of of its previous iteration to this year, and how might that change the conference environment?

Whitney Platzer-O'Regan [00:17:46]: There are students there. I think that changes the conference environment. Obviously, an annual conference, we do have student leaders, we have NUF fellows, DLI attendees, so we're not, it's not like it's never happened before, but the sheer population of these students is, I think, going to be really interesting for professionals who have not yet attended Strategies or attended a conference with peer educators. These specifically are student leaders who are interested in pushing the needle and changing dialogue around health, safety, and wellbeing issues on their campus, and they're doing it boots on the ground. And so they tend to not silo themselves to just peer education sessions. They are going to go into a sexual violence prevention session and sit front row and raise their hand and ask questions. And so presenters, be prepared. Students don't hide their tongue.

Whitney Platzer-O'Regan [00:18:36]: They feel empowered, and we love that. That challenges us as conference planners. It challenges us as student affairs professionals, and it really gives them an opportunity to find their voice and their place on campus.

Dr. Emma Spalding [00:18:48]: We also host specific spaces and networking events for the students so that they can connect with each other, which I think has helped move program ideas forward from a student perspective. That is really cool to see more and more students presenting as part of the Peer Education Conference.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:19:04]: That student voice being present in the space is so valuable to give us real-time information and feedback on, is what we're thinking about realistic? Is what we're trying to do on our campus going to make an impact? Is the evidence-based component still valid for this generation of students? So many individual pieces there. For our professionals who are attending and maybe have not interacted with students in conference before, are there any other pieces of advice that you have for kind of framing presentations or soliciting audience feedback or general interaction?

Whitney Platzer-O'Regan [00:19:36]: A couple things come to mind. Don't be afraid to just strike up a conversation with a student. Get over that hump, jump that bridge, like make it happen. We know students love to talk about themselves, so ask them about what they're doing on campus. Ask them what it means to be a peer educator, how their work impacts policy and process and their, their peers' culture on their campus. I think that's a no-brainer. Students love to talk about themselves, and so just ask open-ended questions. Find them after a session, find them during a conference break, or maybe a yoga meditation session.

Whitney Platzer-O'Regan [00:20:06]: Just chit-chat with them like they're a colleague. I think when it comes to framing presentations, I don't know that you need to change any topic, right? Especially if you're not presenting specifically for the period conference, but for the other 4 conferences. They are college students, they are adults, they will rise to the occasion. I think what I would encourage you to do that If you feel that a student is taking over a session by asking a lot of questions, figuring out how to navigate that towards the end of the conference, or feeling really confident to say, I'd love to talk to you more about this, can we meet after the session is over and really dig in? Like, use— figure out what you're comfortable with about how to kind of move the session along, because especially for those general interest sessions, 50 minutes goes by.

Dr. Emma Spalding [00:20:51]: Yeah, I think that that's great advice, and students love to give their opinion, so they will do that willingly. They will not be shy, as Whitney said. So use that to your advantage. I think sometimes folks are, want to hear from a student panel or whatnot, but we don't need a panel just to be able to connect with students. And if you have student leaders that you think would benefit from this event, please bring them to the event. We have a student-specific registration rate to make it more affordable for those undergraduate students to be able to attend.

Whitney Platzer-O'Regan [00:21:20]: And we will be offering student registration scholarships through the Bacchus Fund and the NASPA Foundation this year.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:27]: I think funding is a really important moment here because I think a lot of us struggle to get ourselves to conferences from a professional development perspective. Aside from these scholarships that are being offered through NASPA, is there anything that you're seeing, seeing be quite successful for campus-based professionals who want to bring their students to these conferences?

Whitney Platzer-O'Regan [00:21:44]: I would encourage them to submit a session to present. That communicates a level of investment, a level of professional career growth. It's a skill-based opportunity for those students, and so it's not just seen as them sitting in what is essentially a classroom and learning something and walking away. Like, it's a great opportunity for— well, they were teaching their peers, they were talking to campuses from across the country and made our institution look really great for the work that we're doing. I'll also say that when I would bring undergraduate peer educators to this conference, I would have them create an action plan. So they would document the sessions they went to and one or two things that they learned, and then When we would get back to campus, I would have them create an action plan on how they were gonna use their learnings to contribute to our peer education program for the rest of the academic year. And that really helped not only the student connect the opportunities they had at Strategies to implement an actual strategy on campus, but it gave me an opportunity to share with my colleagues and supervisors, look at the value of me taking these students to Strategies. Now they're implementing this program right here.

Whitney Platzer-O'Regan [00:22:52]: This is a product of them attending. And so that's one piece of advice I would give campuses who are thinking about how to kind of advocate for attendance.

Dr. Emma Spalding [00:23:01]: I think also advocating across campus that this is not just a benefit to the health and wellbeing space on campus, but these students are building those skills. And so are there different things through the student government or other entities on campus that provide support for students that are representing the institution and presenting at conferences, even if it's not specifically in the topic area of the health promotion promotion office or, or whatnot? And is there opportunities to get support for attendance through that?

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:31]: I'm going to take us towards our theme questions for this season, which are right up the alleys of both of your work. We are focusing this season on enhancing the career pathways and wellbeing of student affairs professionals. So I've got 2 questions for you in this area. Our first is, what's one easy thing and one hard thing that a supervisor can do to enhance the career pathway of the people they're charged with leading?

Dr. Emma Spalding [00:23:53]: We're really excited that later this fall we'll be announcing our keynote speakers for our opening and closing keynote sessions. So keep an eye out on weekly updates from NASPA and the Strategies webpage and other communications for those when we have them confirmed.

Whitney Platzer-O'Regan [00:24:08]: I'll start with the easy thing. Hold your employees accountable to taking their PTO and respect that PTO. It's part of our employment package. It's part of working at an institution. And if our employees and ourselves, if we can't take care of ourselves, how can we take care of And that role modeling piece is so important. When an undergraduate student who's developing their career identity sees someone actively use their PTO, I think is a really great role modeling opportunity, right? So that to me is so easy. It's there. Encourage and respect that your staff or your professionals take that.

Whitney Platzer-O'Regan [00:24:43]: And that's an easy conversation to have. I think what's harder is, as you mentioned earlier, Jill, budgets are dwindling. Support for professional development is dwindling. The harder thing is advocating for the professional's development instead of just professional development that will suit their job description, like really managing up and saying, Whitney wants to develop this way as a professional, and so we need to find the funding to be able to do that, versus Whitney in her role as director of safety and prevention needs to do a prevention certification, so that's the only pro-dev we're going to support. I think those are 2 very different things. And the first bucket around the personal professional's development will contribute to a greater retention and success and value add to professionals retaining in the field as opposed to the other piece. And I do think that's the much harder conversation.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:42]: And that's such a question.

Dr. Emma Spalding [00:25:43]: I would totally agree about the harder conversation, but I think it's so important to have that professional development and find creative Ways to do that. If folks are NASPA members, there's oftentimes lots of information and offerings available to the membership. And so especially as positions might become more general or wear more hats as they are being asked to do more, how can we find the information that supports the folks that we're supervising? I think I love how you answered, Whitney, about folks taking their benefits because that is so actionable and impactful. I also think supervisors can ask for the opinions of the folks that they supervise, even if it's on a systems or a structure or a new policy, that there is a lot that everyone can bring to the table. In our work, I really see everyone impacting wellbeing and everyone is part of the system. And so there's a role and everyone has an opinion and they like being asked what their opinion is to move that forward. So really having those conversations and seeing everyone on the team as key players, regardless of hierarchy and roles.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:52]: And our second question is, what might you want VPSAs to consider regarding the holistic wellbeing of student affairs professionals that perhaps they're not already thinking about?

Dr. Emma Spalding [00:27:02]: I think it's important to think about the whole profession. I think a lot of the work on a college campus ends up being focused on the wellbeing of students and the students' experience, and if we don't have well folks in the profession, we're not going to have well students as well. There's a trickle down there. And there is still an importance in making sure that we are serving students because that's why we work at institutions of higher education. I'll highlight that the NASPA Commission on Well-Being and Student Success is working on the final stages of a publication for vice presidents of student affairs to think about this interconnection and how it really is tied together, that, that students need to be well to be successful, and we need to focus on well-being. well-being to promote student success. So excited for that very actionable resource that's about to come out for, for those leaders on campus.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:54]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:01]: Thanks, Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world, and there's a ton of things happening in NASPA. Students that are planning to attend the Peer Education Conference at the 2027 NASPA Strategies Conference can now apply for the Bakus Scholarship, which provides financial assistance to help support conference participation. Members, friends, staff, and alumni can also support student participation by donating to the Bakus Scholarship. If you are planning to apply for the Bakus Scholarship, applications are due on October 12th at 11:59 PM Eastern Standard Time. You can find out more on the NASPA website. Go to the Strategies Conference to find out more. NASPA is really excited to launch the revised Advisors Academy through virtual and self-paced short courses that are designed to support peer education advisors who are new to the role or looking to strengthen their foundational skills.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:59]: Advisors Academy provides an opportunity to take your work a step further by focusing on the broader practices that support successful peer education programs. The updated Advisors Academy features a refreshed online course with updated videos and accompanying workbook with practical strategies and opportunities to reflect on your own program throughout the training. The course is broken down into 5 modules, and in those 5 modules, you'll explore models of peer education, group development, operations, assessment and evaluation, and student learning outcomes. Throughout the course, you'll use the accompanying workbook to reflect on your current practices, apply concepts to your own program, and identify opportunities for growth. So whether you're new to advising peer educators or looking to strengthen an established program, the Advisors Academy provides a foundation for intentionality, for intentionally developing and supporting peer education programs. You can find out more by going to the NASPA website under Events and Online Learning and go down to On-Demand Catalog. Congress recently passed a continued resolution that keeps most federal programs funded at the current levels through December 11th, temporarily averting a government shutdown while lawmakers continue negotiations over fiscal year 2027 spending. For higher education, the measure maintains the maximum Pell Grant at $7,395 and delays proposed changes to government-wide federal grant rules.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:29]: Questions about longer-term education funding remain unresolved, including how Congress will address a projected Pell Grant shortfall and proposed changes to several student aid and college access programs. Meanwhile, the Department of Education and National Science Foundation are pursuing their own changes to federal grantmaking that could give agencies greater discretion to suspend or terminate awards. The Department also awarded more than $106 million to TRIO grants supporting college access programs. Immigration policy remains an area of significant activity, with the Department of Homeland Security limiting circumstances in which international students may participate in internships through Curricular Practical Training, potentially affecting access to experiential learning opportunities. In the courts, the Department of Education is appealing decisions that blocked its attempt to establish new restrictions on which public and nonprofit employers qualify for Public Service Loan Forgiveness. The Department of Justice also expanded its challenges to state tuition equity policies for undocumented students, filing lawsuits against Arizona, New Mexico, Oregon, and Washington as part of litigation now involving 21 states. A separate case in Minnesota leaves unresolved the broader dispute over the federal government's interpretation and enforcement of Title IX. NASPA continues to watch and monitor federal and state policy developments and is We're currently tracking 1,628 active higher education-related bills across the 119th Congress and state legislatures.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:03]: If you want to find out more about any of this, go to the Policy Hub on the NASPA website. Every week we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the Association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the Association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the, the centers or the divisions of the Association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself where do you fit, where do you want to give back, Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that, or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now. to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:33:29]: Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:33]: Chris, thank you so much for continuing to share with us what's going on in and around NASPA. We always appreciate your updates. All right, Emma and Whitney, we have reached our lightning round and I've got 7 questions for you to answer in about 90 seconds. Are you ready to go?

Whitney Platzer-O'Regan [00:33:48]: Yes, ready.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:50]: All right, question 1. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

Dr. Emma Spalding [00:33:55]: Right now, it would be Butter by BTS.

Whitney Platzer-O'Regan [00:33:57]: Mine would be The Man by Taylor Swift.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:59]: Number 2, when you were 5 years old, what did you want to be when you grew up?

Dr. Emma Spalding [00:34:03]: Ooh, I don't think I ever had a dream job when I was 5. I was in Girl Scouts, and I just loved learning things and changing. So that definitely depended on what merit badge I was working on at the time.

Whitney Platzer-O'Regan [00:34:15]: I always just wanted to be an MTV VJ, and that continues today. If MTV ever decides to come back, I would love for them to cast me as a VJ.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:24]: Whitney on TRL in the near future. I love it.

Whitney Platzer-O'Regan [00:34:26]: Yes.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:26]: Number 3, who's your most influential professional mentor?

Dr. Emma Spalding [00:34:29]: Mine would have to be Mike Sagawa. He was my Dean of Students during my undergrad and was a big reason that I ended up going into student affairs. And it wasn't until after I started as a graduate assistant with NASPA that I learned what a rock star he is within the NASPA-verse. And so he continues to be a mentor of mine.

Whitney Platzer-O'Regan [00:34:49]: My greatest professional mentor is Dr. Claudia Ares-Serena. She's currently the AVP and Dean of Students at Georgetown University. She was the first person that ever gave me a shot in student affairs and guided me professionally and personally throughout so many years. And she's the reason I am the professional that I am today.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:07]: Number 4, your essential student affairs read.

Dr. Emma Spalding [00:35:10]: I think that the ones that stuck with me the most is Where You Work Matters. Really think about what kind of institution we all work at.

Whitney Platzer-O'Regan [00:35:17]: Yeah, that's a good one, Emma. I really love— it's something along the lines of becoming a conflict-confident leader. I think really, if you can't handle conflict in a healthy way or operate in the political frame, you're really going to struggle in student affairs. And so ingesting that book from COVID to cover was really important for me.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:34]: Number 5, the best TV show you've been binging lately.

Dr. Emma Spalding [00:35:37]: I'm rewatching Avatar: The Last Airbender right now in preparation of watching the new movie. that came out.

Whitney Platzer-O'Regan [00:35:43]: And I'm still not out of my heated rivalry psychosis, so I'm just reheating that constantly.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:48]: Number 6, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to across the last year.

Dr. Emma Spalding [00:35:53]: It would show that I have listened to House of Maher the most. That's a podcast by the elite women's rugby player, Ilona Maher, and her sisters. Side note, I coach collegiate rugby, and so I love keeping a pulse on the women's rugby space. But they talk about more than that. It's very interesting.

Whitney Platzer-O'Regan [00:36:09]: For me, it's Las Culturistas with Bowen Yang and Matt Rogers. Highly recommend. They do a moments of culture recap every year, so that's a really great place to start, but they keep me tapped into what's going on in the zeitgeist.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:24]: You both have successfully made it almost to the end of the lightning round. Our final question for you is number 7, any shoutouts you'd like to give, personal or professional?

Dr. Emma Spalding [00:36:32]: I'll shout out the team that I work with on a day-to-day basis at NASPA who works on the statewide coalitions in Colorado and Montana. Ray Fisco, Ava Esikoff, Samantha Hernandez, and Vanessa Vera. They keep me grounded and I really enjoy the work we get to do across both those states and they energize me every day along with all the folks that have gotten me to where I am at this work in NASPA.

Whitney Platzer-O'Regan [00:36:56]: I'm gonna shout out every peer educator I ever worked with and the current peer educators that are out there doing the real work in the student union in direct sunlight at 2:00 PM on a Wednesday, educating their peers about the harms of cannabis consumption. I just don't think they get the platform that some of our orientation leaders or student government leaders get. And so shout out to you doing the real work and making it fun.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:18]: Thank you both so much for spending the time with us today to teach us what's going on for the Future Strategies Conference. Once again, that conference is in January 2027 in Austin, Texas, and by the calendar before a lot of our students will return for the January term. But if anyone would like to reach you after they've listened today, how can they find you?

Dr. Emma Spalding [00:37:36]: Yeah, they can get ahold of me at my NASPA email, which is espaulding, so E- W-O-R-E-G-A-N, so W-O-R-E-G-A-N, it's [email protected], or connect with me on LinkedIn.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:55]: And the website for the conference is naspa.org/events/strategies if you want to check that out. Emma, Whitney, wonderful pleasure today. Thank you so much for sharing your voices with us.

Dr. Emma Spalding [00:38:05]: Thanks for your time, Jill.

Whitney Platzer-O'Regan [00:38:06]: Thanks, Jill.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:08]: This has been an episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field brought to you by NASPA. This show is only made possible because of you, our listeners and our members. We continue to be so grateful that you choose to spend your time with us season after season. If you'd like to reach us here at the show, you can email us at [email protected] or find me on LinkedIn by searching for Dr. Jill L. Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. If you're interested in appearing on the show yourself, please do contact us.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:36]: We'd love it if you spend a moment with us. Thank you so much for listening. moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening from now. It really does help us in the student affairs community, as well as the podcasting community to help our show grow. This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton. That's me. Produced and audio engineered by Dr.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:55]: Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint and New York University London for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

On the latest episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field podcast, host Dr. Jill Creighton welcomes the editorial team behind NASPA's new book, In the Middle: Leading as a Mid-Level Professional in Student Affairs. This conversation brings together C. Spencer Platt, Darryl B. Holliman, and Dr. Gigi Secuban for a rich dialogue about supporting, empowering, and reimagining what it means to thrive as a mid-level professional in student affairs.

Main Themes:

1. Embracing Nonlinear Career Journeys: The editors bring decades of experience and candidly share their own career paths—often starting outside traditional student affairs roles and navigating into the field through academic advising, admissions, and cultural centers. A key message: there's no single "right" way to build a career in higher education, and each journey offers invaluable perspective.

2. The Importance of Representation and Networking: All three editors emphasize the necessity of building networks, not just for advancement but for mentorship and collaborative growth. Their own partnership was born from conference conversations, mutual aspirations, and the desire to uplift voices in the mid-level space, especially those historically underrepresented.

3. A Modern, Practical Resource: What sets In the Middle apart is its up-to-date take on pressing issues: political landscapes, diversity, equity, belonging, self-care, and evolving best practices in supervision. Mid-level professionals are encouraged to find themselves in the book—its chapters range from core competencies and intercultural resilience to the "politics in practice" of today's higher ed environment.

4. Permission to Grow—Or to Stay: A recurring refrain challenges the idea that everyone must "climb the ladder." It's okay—and sometimes ideal—to find fulfillment at a mid-level role. The editors encourage professionals to pursue authentic leadership and make choices based on passion rather than external expectations.

5. Prioritizing Well-Being and Authenticity: The panelists reflect on the importance of self-care, both for professionals and for those they supervise. They emphasize the value of kindness, community, and letting go of micromanagement—and remind us that supervisors can best lead others by bringing their whole, authentic selves to the work.

If you're ready for honest insights and practical advice—whether you're a mid-level manager, aspiring leader, or simply interested in the evolving field of student affairs—this episode is a must-listen. Tune in to hear firsthand perspectives, learn about In the Middle, and find encouragement for wherever you are on your professional journey.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:01]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed professionals wherever you happen to be. This is Season 15, Enhancing the Career Pathways and Well-Being of Student Affairs Professionals. I'm Dr. Jill Creighton, she/her/hers, your SA Voices from the Field host. Welcome back, listeners, to our next episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field. Today, we're introducing you to 3 editors of a brand new NASPA book called In the Middle: Leading as a Mid-Level Professional in Student Affairs. This book fits really nicely with our enhancing career pathways and wellbeing theme this season, and I'm really excited to introduce you to 2 new voices to the show and one returning voice.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:50]: Our first new voice is C. Spencer Platt, who is an associate professor of higher education administration at the University of South Carolina. Dr. Platt currently directs the Community College Leadership Alliance, and is the former director of the Center for Innovation in Higher Education at the University of South Carolina. He earned his PhD from the University of Texas at Austin and a Master of Science from the University of Dayton and a baccalaureate degree from the University of South Carolina. Dr. Platt has over 20 years of experience in teaching, research, student affairs, community engagement, diversity, equity, and academic affairs on college campuses. His research typically focuses on diversity, equity, access, and excellence in education with an emphasis on underrepresented students, faculty, and staff experiences at predominantly white universities.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:30]: He has secured over $1 million in extramural funds for research through the National Science Foundation and the National Endowment for the Humanities. His research is published in numerous books and articles, including the Journal of College Student Development, AERA Open, and the Journal of Negro Education. He has co-edited 4 books, the one that we're talking about today, another called From Boyhood to Manhood: Deconstructing Black Masculinity Through a Lifespan Continuum, a 3rd book called Multicultural Education in the 21st Century: Innovative Research and Practices in Higher Education, and a 4th book, Comprehensive Multicultural Education in 21st Century: Increasing Access in an Age of Retrenchment. He has presented his work at numerous national and international academic conferences and institutes, including the American Educational Research Association, the Association for the Study of Higher Education, the International Conference on Doctoral Education, and the International Colloquium on Black Males in Education. He's a proud member of Kappa Alpha Psi fraternity and a fall 1998 initiate of the Zeta Epsilon chapter at the University of South Carolina. Our second new voice to meet today is Dr. Gigi Secuban, who currently serves as the Vice President for Inclusive Excellence and Belonging at Montgomery College in Rockville, Maryland. She brings more than 25 years of higher education experience, including the inaugural vice president roles for inclusive excellence at Texas State University and Ohio University.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:47]: Previously, Dr. Secuban held leadership positions at the University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign, where she oversaw the renovation of the Bruce D. Nesbitt African American Cultural Center, and at the University of Arkansas, where she served as senior associate director for the freshman engineering program, director of the Multicultural Center, director of student affairs and diversity services in the College of Education, and Health Professions, as well as an Assistant Director of Undergraduate Admissions. Her work centers on advancing diversity, equity, and inclusion and belonging, DEIB, promoting student success, and fostering campus environments where all individuals are valued, supported, and heard. She's led initiatives focused on cultural and resource centers, inclusive excellence planning, DEIB fundraising and branding, and campus climate assessment. In March of 2026, Dr. Sukuban co-released a book with NASPA that we're talking about today, and she was also recently honored with the Outstanding Alumni Award for the University of Arkansas College of Education and Health Professions recognition of her leadership and impact in higher ed. Dr.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:42]: Sukuban earned her Doctor of Education in Higher Ed Administration, Master of Science in Health Science, and Bachelor of Arts in Psychology, all from the University of Arkansas. Soror Gigi is a proud 33-year member and Silver Soror of Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, Incorporated. Initiated into the Kappa Iota chapter on April 11th, 1993, at the University of Arkansas, Dr. Sukuban has demonstrated a longstanding commitment to leadership and service within the sorority. She previously held membership in the Epsilon Epsilon Omega chapter in Central Illinois, where she served as chapter hostess and is a charter member of the Phi Alpha Omega chapter in the Northwest Arkansas area. She also served as a chapter advisor to the Kappa Iota chapter for 3 years, mentoring undergraduate members and supporting their leadership development. Dr. Sukuban was selected in 2021 as one of 25 fellows in the sorority's inaugural Executive Leadership Academy, further strengthening her leadership capacity and impact.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:32]: She has served as a voting delegate at multiple national and regional conferences, and she actively contributes to the development of others through her participation in leadership institutes like the Great Lakes Leadership Experience and by facilitating workshops at regional chapter meetings. Our 3rd guest today is a voice that you got to know in the spring of 2026, Dr. Darryl B. Holliman, who is also our current NASPA Board Chair. He is a distinguished leader in higher education with over 3 decades of experience in student affairs, academic administration and institutional advancement, governance and board relations, and human talent management. He's worked at several regional and nationally recognized higher education institutions where he supervised collectively over employees and overseeing budgets of more than $300 million. His extensive experience, strategic vision, and unwavering commitment to student success and institutional excellence make him a transformative leader in higher education. His contributions continue to inspire and shape the future of academic communities.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:25]: Dr. Holliman has several articles and book chapters to his credit, and his research examines the way that disadvantaged groups develop and demonstrate their agency in educational systems, particularly within urban school settings. He is the co-editor of the book entitled From Boyhood to Manhood: Deconstructing Black Masculinity Through a Lifespan Continuum through Peter Lang Press. Welcome back, SA Voices. We are so glad to be here today with authors of a book that we're excited that NASPA has launched for you all. The book is In the Middle: Leading as a Mid-Level Professional in Student Affairs. And we're here today with our 3 editors, Darryl Holliman, Spencer Platt, and Gigi Sukuban. They are all with us today to tell us more about the journey of this book and how you might use it in your student affairs professional work.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:09]: So I'm so excited to welcome back Darryl. Glad to have you back on the show.

C. Spencer Platt [00:06:13]: I'm glad to be back.

Darryl B. Holliman [00:06:14]: Hi, NASPA family.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:16]: And Spencer, hello. First time on the pod.

C. Spencer Platt [00:06:18]: Hi, Jill. Good to see you.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:20]: And Gigi, glad to see you.

Dr. Gigi Secuban [00:06:21]: Hi, everybody. It's nice to finally work with you, Jill, virtually, and nice to meet everyone. And thank you for joining us today.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:28]: Before we dig into the book, which has so many rich chapters, I'm so grateful to have gotten a chance to read a bit of it before our conversation. We always love to start off our episodes by getting to know you more as a person and a professional with the question, How did you get to your current seat? And we'll start with Darrell, who has been on the pod just recently as last year as he ascended to the NASPA board chair position. So Darrell, go ahead and refresh us on who you are.

Darryl B. Holliman [00:06:53]: Absolutely. Hi, I'm Darrell Holliman. I'm the current board chair for NASPA. Started my career about 32 years ago. And what is interesting is I didn't take a traditional pathway. I actually started as an academic advisor on the academic side. I had a wonderful conversation with a young man the other day. Hey, Kevin.

Darryl B. Holliman [00:07:13]: And was sharing with Kevin a bit of my journey. And so I did not get into student affairs purist work until about 10 years into my career. And I became the Associate Dean Director of the Paul Robeson Campus Center, which really kicked off my career from that point. So that's my story.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:33]: And Darryl continuing his service in the NASPA Board Chair role for about another half a year. We're about halfway through that North Star project. that we talked about in our last episode with him. And Spencer, first time on the pod. How did you get to your current seat?

C. Spencer Platt [00:07:47]: Yeah, so I'm currently an associate professor at the University of South Carolina, but I started out in student affairs. I started out at Horry-Georgetown Technical College in Conway, South Carolina, right beside Coastal Carolina, and worked there for a few months before heading to the University of Dayton for, for a master's degree, then University of Texas. to work in housing and eventually started a doctoral program, but, you know, worked in a number of different other capacities at the University of Texas before coming to the University of South Carolina. And I've been here since 2012.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:08:18]: What are you specializing in as a professor?

C. Spencer Platt [00:08:20]: Higher ed is the field, but, you know, I do issues of equity and access. I do org administration governance issues. And a lot of my more recent research has been on faculty diversity, especially in engineering where it's been really difficult for, to diversify. And so we, we, we, we are thinking, you know, what helps engineering is likely to help everybody else, you know, if, if they're interested in trying to diversify their faculty.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:08:49]: Gigi, we're so glad to speak with you as well today. How did you get to your current seat?

Dr. Gigi Secuban [00:08:53]: Hi everybody. So mine was similar to Darryl. I didn't know I wanted to do higher ed. And so my first job was actually in admissions. And so I was in on the academic side as well. And it all started with A director of advising had suggested that I go into higher ed. I just didn't realize that you could actually work in higher ed. I don't know where I thought all the people I worked with as an undergrad came from, but I started in admissions and started working my way through.

Dr. Gigi Secuban [00:09:17]: So my first true student affairs job was really about 7 years later when I was director of the Multicultural Center. And then I continued to work at the University of Arkansas, total of 15 years. My last role was the College of Engineering, as Spencer had talked about. So I worked with engineers for about 5 years. And started my doctorate while working full-time as a single mom. And then after that, I decided I couldn't stay at Arkansas longer because I needed to expand my career. So, I went to the University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign. I was there for 6, and then Ohio University for 4, where I was the inaugural VP for diversity and inclusion.

Dr. Gigi Secuban [00:09:54]: Took a jaunt to Texas before the anti-DEI bill. I was there for a couple years, and now I'm at Montgomery College in Maryland, in Rockville, Maryland, where I'm the inaugural vice president for inclusive excellence and belonging. So, that's where My son and I landed about a year ago.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:09]: How did the 3 of you determine that you wanted to work together to create this book?

Dr. Gigi Secuban [00:10:13]: Oh my gosh. Let me just, I know Darryl will jump in, but we had been to a number of conferences and I don't know, Darryl, if it was the mid-level, but we were talking about it and the book had not been updated for a while. And so we were talking about with another colleague, Peggy, who was at, in Chicago, and we talked about how the book needs to be updated. And we'd always wanted to do a NASBA publication. We were all AVPs at the time aspiring to be VPs. And so we were even talking about I remember, Darryl, you even saying at the time, like, how do I get more involved in NASPA? Like, I'd wanna be on the board sometime. And so now I just reflect back and think, oh my gosh, he's like now the board chair. Like places we thought we were just kind of aspiring to that we talked about way back then that actually has come to fruition.

Dr. Gigi Secuban [00:10:57]: And I've, you know, I talked about I had never done a book and I'd love to do something related to higher ed. And so we started getting connected with NASPA and started talking about it. So it really got really full-on just a few years ago where we had to identify authors and those types of things. But Darryl and I had been colleagues for a long time, and then we brought in Spencer as part of a faculty lens because we wanted to make sure we had that lens. And actually, Spencer and I just did the Mid-Level Administrators Conference in Rhode Island in June. So we had— that was the first time we had presented together, but the first time we'd actually met each other in person. So it was pretty cool.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:32]: Oh my gosh.

Dr. Gigi Secuban [00:11:32]: It was all kind of come full circle. Yeah. So it's pretty cool.

C. Spencer Platt [00:11:36]: I feel like I'm the least likely person to be speaking on this. this because I felt like so much had been going on that I didn't know about. I think you guys had all those conversations. And then how I really came into this was Darryl and I had done our first edited book before, you know, way back in what, uh, 2015 or so?

Darryl B. Holliman [00:11:53]: Yeah. Long time ago.

C. Spencer Platt [00:11:54]: Yeah. Uh, From Boyhood to Manhood, looking at Black masculinity through the lifespan. And so I guess he reached out to me and he was like, hey, I'd be happy to work with you again. Happy to do another edited book. I've always been interested in NASPA, always wanted to get involved with NASPA. And, uh, and so this has really just been a, a dream come true project for me.

Darryl B. Holliman [00:12:13]: Yeah. And I think I just would conclude with just saying how to the membership, I think what is really important is to talk about network and understanding networks and how that works, 'cause that's what you're hearing real time. I think I hear a lot of new professionals, mid-level professionals focus so much on sponsorship. Uh, that's the term I'm hearing, mentorship, but it really is about a web of people in your life that you can just call upon for different experiences. And that web continues to grow as you advance in your career. So as you move beyond mid-level and move up to senior roles, as you come into the profession, what's important is to really just find good people that you can work and do partnerships with for the rest of your career. So Spencer and I are actually already talking about the next book project that we're working on. We're working on the proposal for that now.

Darryl B. Holliman [00:13:01]: So these things are just always evolving.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:05]: So let's talk about the gap. You mentioned that there was a previous edition of this book, that it had been a long time since it's been updated. And I think we know in the profession that the mid-level is the largest proportion of professionals in the student affairs kind of industry overall. So let's talk about what goes into this and why this book right now.

Darryl B. Holliman [00:13:23]: Jump in with that one first. I think even for us as editors, right, we all started our careers 20, 30 years ago and just the evolution and the nuances of higher education and particularly the work in student affairs has changed so tremendously. So when I first started my career, it really was about how do you deal with a budget? How do you supervise people? How many people do you supervise? And now you really have to think about like the political environment on campus and off campus. Where you're located, what region of the country you're located in. And so it's so much more nuanced now in the work that I think it gives— I just saw a need for this book. And when you read the book, you'll realize that, that we really tried to write a book for professionals now that goes beyond the scope. I know how to do a budget, right? So we have one chapter in there, a great chapter by Sylvia Maddox, that talks about being a first-generation individual and how she wasn't just the first generational student. She was a first generational person in student affairs, right? And what that really means and how that informs her work.

Darryl B. Holliman [00:14:33]: So those kind of things, I believe, really help to bring some new perspective to the work through this book that I don't think we would've thought about 15, 20, 30 years ago.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:43]: Gigi, you said— I'm gonna pause us here. Chris, audio note quickly. Darryl, you mentioned author named Sylvia Maddox. She's credited in the book as Sylvia Griffin. Is that a correction we need to make?

Darryl B. Holliman [00:14:53]: That's a correction, 'cause her— that was her married name. She's since got divorced. Talk about evolution.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:59]: You mentioned one of the chapter authors and chapters in the book, Darryl. I'm just going to share with our audience all the different topic areas that they can expect in the book, because it's such a rich dialogue happening in this, in this volume. There's a chapter on the mid-level manager's toolkit, which includes core competencies for success, politics in practice, as you all mentioned, that the political landscape has changed dramatically for how to navigate as a mid-level professional. There's a component about building intercultural resilience as a mid-level professional in global higher ed. Principled supervision, increasing success for college students of color, bridging worlds in terms of the difference of first generation, which is the one you had just mentioned, fostering wellbeing, navigating professional spaces for mid-level professionals with their own marginalized identities, rethinking the career ladder to build a future that fits an individual, adopting cultural humility, which I love that there's a chapter on this, finding your place as a volunteer. And the book closes out with a chapter on priming the pipeline for mid-level student affairs professionals Which I think is just such an important part of the conversation we're having right now on ensuring the longevity of our profession. Is there anything that you'd like to highlight as editors about what readers might want to focus on or what to expect from some of this dialogue in the book?

Dr. Gigi Secuban [00:16:12]: Well, I'll say I thought it was so helpful because, you know, for people who are just really needing a toolkit, you can really jump into any chapter. So it's not necessarily a progressive thing where you have to think, okay, I got to read the whole thing. If you're short on time, if you're wanting to read something specifically on supervision, you can jump in on that chapter. Or as you mentioned, Jill, the piece about cultural humility and the wellbeing part. I mean, I really love— there's a chapter where we talk about how, with supervisors, you can't really help people from an empty cup. So really talking about your own wellbeing as a supervisor and how you can better supervise people if you yourself are taking care of yourself and doing self-care things that you need to do in these roles. Because I think that's something that, again, 20 years ago when we were mid-level, that we didn't really think about because we were so focused on supervising or learning how to do budgets or how to do politics. And we weren't worried about the national landscape in higher ed.

Dr. Gigi Secuban [00:17:07]: So I think that that's the thing that's been helpful. And what I will share too, real quickly, is that, you know, we ran into professionals who've already utilized the book as part of retreats or even as part of book clubs. And I think that's been kind of an eye-opening thing for me to know that people are already utilizing it in that way.

C. Spencer Platt [00:17:24]: I think one of my favorite things about this whole project was just how real it is to folks who would read it and where I come really well with— it's in a space where not many other books are, and it fits in well with their life course, their place in life and in their careers, as well as the academic literature. So I just felt like it was a project that— it is a project that just kind of checked a lot of boxes and was really useful and real in ways that oftentimes you just don't find.

Darryl B. Holliman [00:18:26]: One of the things we intentionally did, you'll see for most of the chapters, there are co-authors and sometimes 3 authors. What we wanted to do was make sure that the mid-level voice was prevalent. So if there was a senior-level person that was writing the chapter, they had to find a mid-level that they would co-write the chapter with. We were very specific about that. And I think that was really helpful because not only did it provide opportunities for folks that might not have an opportunity to write or write later in their career, it also gave some really great, to Spencer's point, nuances between where people are in their academic and professional life. And so, that span and that continuity, we thought was really important in the book.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:19:08]: I really like that element because it gives a great opportunity for mid-level professionals who maybe are early in their writing careers to attach to someone who's more experienced. But it also is a great not about us without us moment. We want to make sure that that mid-level voice— we're not writing about or advising mid-level professionals without understanding the experience of a current mid-level professional.

Dr. Gigi Secuban [00:19:27]: Absolutely. And I think the other part that I liked about it was that so often early in the career, we talk about in grad school, you need to move up in the profession. And what I loved about it, and especially was reiterated at the Mid-Level Administrators Conference, is that it's okay to stay in the middle if you want to continue to stay at the director level or the mid-level. You don't necessarily have to use it as a springboard to become a VP, and it's okay to stay in, in that space depending on what your lifestyle is and being okay with being in the middle too. And you can also use it as an opportunity to move up if you choose What are some of the best practical pieces of advice in the book?

Darryl B. Holliman [00:20:01]: What's important about the book is that I think individuals can find themselves in the book wherever they are professionally. I think that the book leaves some times for reflection for senior-level folks, because sometimes we get so caught up now in cabinet-level work and institutional-level work that it gives us sometimes a disconnect from sometimes our staff, sometimes our students. And I think this book allows for you to be able to hear the voices of individuals individuals. So I know one of the authors, Veronica, and I can't remember her co-author right now, but they wrote a chapter on the importance of being mid-level and what that really means. And I think senior-level people need to hear that. We also, the cultural competencies have just, or will soon be released. They have been rewritten. They hadn't been written in about 15 years.

Darryl B. Holliman [00:20:50]: And so it's 10 to 15 years. And so the first chapter is on competencies and that sense of competency and what it means to be a competent leader is the cornerstone. Like, that's why it's the first chapter, right? Because everything revolves around the competencies and how you confidently go into your job understanding what you need as a basis for being able to do the work. And so I think those 2 things stood out for me.

C. Spencer Platt [00:21:14]: Again, this just might be me, but I think one of the things that I, I see between the lines is that oftentimes you just hear climb, climb, climb, grind, grind, grind, manage, manage, manage, manage this, manage that, manage your emotions. But we also take time to try to find some balance and figure out, okay, who Who am I and what do I want out of my career, my goals, my life? And, you know, I think that part is important, but oftentimes overlooked.

Dr. Gigi Secuban [00:21:39]: I really liked the part about in the supervision chapter, because as I was meeting people around the book, they really were craving something around supervision. And I liked the whole idea the authors brought in around red lights getting redder. So when you start to supervise people, you'll remember that part. You know, these are kind of the early warning signs that you think, oh, it'll be okay. It'll go away if I don't address it. And as you know, the longer you're in the profession, the The more you realize, okay, if you kind of did detect a behavior that could possibly be problematic, it's probably better to address it early than waiting till later.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:11]: There are 2 really practical appendices in the book. I think those are the pieces that I think are easy to pull out. One is a supervision matrix that talks about kind of key elements of your personality as a supervisor, as well as how you want to execute the exercise of supervision. And then there's another one that's really just more of a reflective, reflexive exercise on who am I as a person and a professional. And I think we think about these things conceptually. conceptually a lot of the time, but it's very different when you see it kind of practically laid out in front of you.

Dr. Gigi Secuban [00:22:39]: Yes, I totally agree, Jean. How you work when coming into the role, how you can explain that to people. If you need to be off, do you check your calendar? You know, I've known managers who want to micromanage people and like, you weren't here at this time, and other managers who never look at anybody else's calendar. So it's really a nice way to outline expectations if you're a first-time supervisor or you're having trouble supervising people to utilize those tools at the back. I thought that was really helpful.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:03]: We know the profession is evolving quickly and daily. with the landscape around us evolving quickly and daily. Is there anything that's come out in this edition that you're already thinking about revising for a future edition?

Darryl B. Holliman [00:23:14]: We appreciate your confidence. Not for publication. We need a new one.

Dr. Gigi Secuban [00:23:18]: We need a new one.

Darryl B. Holliman [00:23:21]: Thank you, Jill. I actually can tell you, I've been kicking around an idea. I think this group of editors would be great, and I'd like to pull in maybe one or two more people. But I'll tell you something I'm really interested in exploring is what happens when you get displaced. So much of our identity and our grind, as Spencer said, are tied to the work. And so I've been thinking a lot about my colleagues who did DEI work, and now we were so passionate about that for so many years, and so many people that went into that work it was an extension of their own identity, right? So you were either a part of the queer community, or you were Asian Pacific, or African American. And so it wasn't just work, it was your values, and your background, and your belonging. And then almost overnight, it feels, that was taken away.

Darryl B. Holliman [00:24:19]: And so I'm really interested to hear that voice, like, where do those people land? Like, I'm hearing some of them are moving into a third sector, And some of them are having to decide, I wanna move to a whole nother region of the country. You know, Gigi kind of experienced some of that moving into where she is, different institutional types. So where did those people land? How did they restore themselves and recover? And what is the pathway forward? Because although we don't call it that any, you know, anymore, the students are still coming. First-generation, Pell-eligible, students from rural backgrounds are still coming to our campuses. And so how do we— support them still? And then what new ways do we support them? I think that's what's really important.

Dr. Gigi Secuban [00:25:00]: And also, you know, how do you support them in spaces where a state is red and you're not allowed to do certain things? Like Darryl said, the students are still coming and you're at HSIs or you're at predominantly Black institutions. How do you continue to support those students when, you know, the legislature is telling you you can't do it in that way anymore, or you're starting to get silenced in the classroom? around sanitizing the language that you can use in the classroom, specifically around students of color or different groups. I just think that it's been very difficult. And he mentioned, I know a number of people that I used to work with who are currently still out of a job and still looking for ways to pivot. And we did touch on, you know, how to support students of color in the book and through that cultural resiliency and things like that. But then I think, as Daryl said, if there were future editions, it would also balance that piece around what were the professionals that also experiencing at the time. And just as we mentioned, how do you continue? You know, it's hard to pour from an empty cup when you're already dealing with so many personal things and professional things. And as Darryl said, it was such— for me, I was out of work for 9 months trying to find a job.

Dr. Gigi Secuban [00:26:07]: And then I was a year into the job at Texas, and then the year to the day where I was told that the job was shifting to something else because the bill had passed like 3 weeks before. So we were like, right at the bullseye of all of that anti-DEI stuff and having to kind of climb back out of that and trying to really find your space. Do you pivot to something completely different, or how do you reinvent your career really when you've been kind of spending the majority of your professional career in these roles?

C. Spencer Platt [00:26:33]: I agree with both, both of you on that as well. And I came from the University of Texas, and a lot of the work I did at University of Texas was in that area. And a lot of my friends and colleagues are going through a lot of what you just talked about. Another area that I think about a lot. And it reminds me of a conversation I was having with Darryl. And we were talking about, talking about the book. And he said, what about you, Spence? You're in the middle as faculty. And I kind of didn't think of it that way.

C. Spencer Platt [00:27:00]: I was like, oh no, as faculty, we don't really, you know, it's not really a middle. I was like, what was I thinking? I was completely wrong on that. And I don't even know how that thought crossed my mind that associate professors aren't in the middle, but clearly being wrong there. And that's an area to explore and to dive into, and I think it can speak to a lot of people's experiences as well.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:21]: When we think about leading from the middle, is there one thing that you want our mid-level professionals who are listening to this episode right now to take away from this work?

Darryl B. Holliman [00:27:29]: I would offer 2 things. I think, one, you have to lead in your own authentic way. And I can remember my very first boss, one of my best bosses, his name was Gerald Massenburg. He's since retired. Hey, Gerald! His daughter is actually in the field. And Gerald just had a different style than I did, and we had a crisis. It was a small crisis, but it was a crisis. And I tried to do it the way Gerald would've done it.

Darryl B. Holliman [00:27:54]: And I actually cursed. I said, this will never happen again. You know, whatever. And then I turned around, and at that time, my student worker, student assistant, he was the SGA president, he was this intern, student intern, and my associate director over operations, the look that they gave me made me realize Like, I will never do that again. Like, I will always handle a situation like Darryl needs to handle a situation. And I'll use my own barometer of integrity, forthrightness, and those types of things. The second thing everyone has to acknowledge, 'cause we all carry it, that little 5-year-old girl, boy, or other inside of us that we carry into every room, into every situation, because minimizing that and being— and not even minimizing, but being aware of that helps you to overcome the insecurities. We're all in the room with some kind of insecurity.

Darryl B. Holliman [00:28:55]: And so, I really— that little, at that time, closeted, gay elementary kid at C.W. Hill, who didn't really understand what that big term was. We didn't use gay back then, and so there were a lot of derogatory terms. And I can remember being in the first grade, and someone's— they didn't call me a derogatory term. They just said, why do you act like a little girl? And I didn't know what that meant. I was like, I don't know what I'm doing. Like, what? I'm not wearing a dress. I'm not— I don't know what that is.

Darryl B. Holliman [00:29:26]: Well, I carry that 5-year-old Darryl in every room that I go into. And so being aware of that and knowing how to navigate that and minimize that if needed, I think is what I would leave for mid-levels in particular and for student affairs professionals overall. Because I do think our profession is under crisis. And I think we gotta figure out how we better survive.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:50]: Sure thing. So, I'm just wondering what you'd like mid-level professionals who read this book to take away from this in terms of the big message or a central theme, or just kind of one nugget that you really think will add value to them reading this work.

Dr. Gigi Secuban [00:30:06]: I would say that as a takeaway that you don't have to move up. I mean, I know I said that earlier, but I think that, you know, as I, as I was personally going through grad school, I just kept hearing hearing, you know, we need to move up, you need to be a VP, you need to be president, blah, blah, blah. But as we were going through the book, I just thought, and then in hearing it, it was validated by people who were actually doing the work, that it's okay to not move up. I mean, an analogy that I'll share is that I've always used the presidency as kind of the sun. And then the closer you get to the sun, the hotter that it gets. And there are some that my mentors who retired as directors of student centers or things like that, that I used to always wonder, like, why Why did she never want to move up? And then as I, even as I moved into the AVP role, I realized, oh, that's why. Because you don't have to deal with the higher level stuff that we have to deal with. And it's okay to like fly under the radar and be in the moment and not have to look at institution-wide at the things that broadly that the campus has to look at.

Dr. Gigi Secuban [00:31:01]: You can focus in on just your area and that's okay. I think making that a place that it's okay to do that and that there doesn't need to be this struggle to be like, okay, what's my next job going to be? What am I going to do next? When am I going to get the doctorate? Constantly planning your life in that way where there's a rush. rush or a timeline to something. I'd say that, you know, be— continue to learn where you are and where you are. We always tell students, we need to meet you where you are, but as professionals, we also need to meet them where they are and not try to rush them through and be like, okay, you need to be on this X-year trajectory to become a VP, because it's not always going to work out. It's like going to the pros for NBA or NFL. Not everybody's going to be a VP. That's something.

Dr. Gigi Secuban [00:31:41]: So, keeping that in mind.

C. Spencer Platt [00:31:43]: I love the points that both of you made, and I'm probably right in there with both of you. And I'm trying to think, okay, how can I say something that's a little different? And, you know, I guess the thing that comes to me is along with finding yourself and not necessarily chasing the dream that everybody thinks you should have is, is, is finding, you know, find your love, find your passion within the field. And I'm reminded that your love and your passion doesn't always have to look a certain kind of way. I think about my research passions and different things of that nature, or when I'm advising folks on trying to find a dissertation topic. My advice to them in that situation is the same. It's finding your passion. And your passion, sometimes it's the stuff that you love. You know, you just love to read it because you get a sense of joy out of it.

C. Spencer Platt [00:32:23]: And then sometimes it's like, okay, well, this is the fight I want to be in. I want to stand up. I want to stand in the gap for these communities, these populations, this issue. This— there might be something going on that really irritates or angers you or whatever, but it spurs you to get off the sidelines and get involved and move. So I think every person should try to find that within themselves. And, you know, there's some soul searching. And so if you can find that in your work, if you can find that in your work, find it. If, if you need to move to find that, move, but try to get that.

C. Spencer Platt [00:32:53]: And at the same time, to Gigi's point, you don't have to chase other people's dreams. If other people may be trying to be the president or vice president, but hey, I like being right here. You know, it's okay to be right there, whether it's in at that level of an institution or that city or whatever the case might be. We all gotta walk our own walks and live our own lives, right?

Dr. Gigi Secuban [00:33:14]: And I think also to what Darrell spoke to earlier, Jill, about the networking part. I mean, I was at the same institution for 15 years, and the thing that really brought me out of that was really continuing to network with people at NASPA. I mean, that's not even just because we're doing the NASPA podcast, but that really helped to expand my professional network. That's how I met Darrell. That's how I met Spencer. That's how I met other people through the NASPA network. I mean, I started out as a mid-level professional and continued to work through NASPA, getting at the regional level, you know, at conferences and then mid-level institutes and things like that, the APP Institute, and you continue to grow your network. And I think that's also the important thing is continue to expand your network outside of where you currently work.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:56]: Is there anything else that you want listeners to know about the book that we haven't gotten a chance to talk about yet?

Darryl B. Holliman [00:34:01]: I think just find yourself in the book, right? And, and don't look at it as if like, this is a template that I need and And this alone is gonna guide me. It's a manual. No, it's more about an ideological way of you affirming who you are as a professional. And then the way we constructed the book, we tried to do it from a standpoint that it's not a manual, that it really is like this life guide that you can use at whatever level you're at. We just focused on mid-levels. As we're having this conversation, and Spencer was talking about, and Gigi just was talking about her journey, I just realized I jumped into student affairs as a mid-level. I wasn't an RD, I wasn't a program coordinator. Like when I got in true, pure student affairs work, I was a mid-level, I was a director.

Darryl B. Holliman [00:34:51]: And so there are many different pathways into the work and there are many different exits out of the work. And I think to Spencer's point, just enjoy whatever you're doing in that moment. And what I see now, and I can't remember if Gigi said this or Spencer, I think it was Spencer, we are so grinding. Everybody Everybody's on the grind. My 16-year-old son said yesterday, oh, Dad, life is just lifin'. I'm like, you 16? You ain't got no life. Like, I am your life. So, you know, like, just, just slow down a little bit and pace yourself and be proud of where you are now and learn the lessons where you are now.

Darryl B. Holliman [00:35:24]: And the rest of the things will come.

Dr. Gigi Secuban [00:35:27]: I think it's hard for people to, like, lean into where they are because there's— you can be so focused on where you want to go. And it's like, you got to be really good at the thing that you're in right now and do really good at that. Like, I still talk about my first job as an recruiter. I still talk about that in interviews and in my work. And I think that the more you kind of learn those roles, the better that you'll be the later you are in your career.

C. Spencer Platt [00:35:49]: Especially if you hold onto the lessons and you learn from it, right? I mean, and you're the best you can be at those, to your point, Gigi.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:55]: Once again, the book is In the Middle: Leading as a Mid-Level Professional in Student Affairs. We're going to transition now to talking about our theme for the season, which is enhancing the career pathways and wellbeing of student affairs professionals. So I have 2 questions for you and would love to hear your thoughts on each. Our first question is, what's one easy thing and one hard thing a supervisor can do to enhance the career pathway of people they are charged with leading?

Dr. Gigi Secuban [00:36:22]: The one thing I would say, the easy thing is to hire people that don't have the same skills that you do. And then 2, once you hire those people, please let them do their job and not micromanage them. I think that's so important. I'll just add really quickly, when I quit the job where I had the worst micromanager, manager, Jill, I literally said, she said, we'd really like you to stay on. And I said, well, and I shared this at the conference, I was like, you know, since you wanna do my job, I wanna get out of your way so you can do your job and my job. I'm out. So I just think that's really important for supervisors to realize that you need to let people do their job, let them do the job you hired them to do.

C. Spencer Platt [00:36:59]: I don't know if these are easy or hard. I mean, well, I think the first thing that comes to my mind is one, you gotta care. And it should be easy, but I guess for some people it, it, it might be hard to care about the folks who work for them. So to care and then be invested in trying to help them succeed, right? So if that's providing opportunities, helping them build networks or whatever, but the investment that you need to do can be, you know, it takes some effort, right? And it's probably not necessarily part of the daily work. So that's probably a little harder for folks, but the care part should be easy.

Darryl B. Holliman [00:37:30]: I think for me, the easy part is to just remain kind. And I think unkindness Kindness is something that you actually have to work at doing. Kindness just comes natural to us, right? When you think about babies, and they just kind of— 1 year old, and they like— you say, can I have some of your bottle? And they give you the bottle, right? That's just— it's innate in us to be kind. And so, as you go through this work, just remain kind. That's an easy thing to do. The harder thing, I think, to do is that we have become a profession and actually an industry that is so governed by politics and regulatory issues and compliance that we have lost 3 critical, important things which brought us to the work in the first place. And that is people, community, and care. And so even as we have these regulatory decisions that we have to make and these, these strong influences that are now in the space, the work.

Darryl B. Holliman [00:38:30]: People, community, and care are at the root of what brought us in. And so I hear a lot of people talk about joy and we've lost the joy in student affairs and we can't find it. It's not that we've lost the joy, we've misaligned the joy and we've aligned the joy to the regulations and to the compliance and to the political interventions that we face. But I would suggest that we pull back deeply into those 3 things, people, community, and care. care, because that's where our joy is. That's why we do the work that we do.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:03]: Our second question is, what might VPSAs need to consider regarding the holistic wellbeing of student affairs professionals that perhaps they're not already thinking about?

Darryl B. Holliman [00:39:12]: Vicky said it, let people do their dang jobs. Like, just stop, stop micromanaging people. Stop being fearful that people are gonna get you in trouble. Allow people to develop and grow. You don't have to make a decision in the room all the time. And I, I told a group this yesterday. I was talking to another NASPA group this— unless you're cracking open the chest and you're pumping a heart back to life, whatever decision you make is not going to be the end of the world, right? So if you decide 2 roommates need to separate out of their residence hall, it's not going to end the life. Support your staff in their decisions.

Darryl B. Holliman [00:39:50]: Support your staff and let them have the creativity and space to make Because learning how to overcome a mistake is innovation, is creativity, is assurance. So let people make mistakes. It's okay. And stop being so scared.

Dr. Gigi Secuban [00:40:07]: I totally sign in on that one, Darrell. I mean, I'd also say, I think as a VPSA, people expect you to know everything and you're not gonna know everything. And being able to admit sometimes that vulnerability that, okay, I don't know everything. Can we, can we talk about it more? And also not leading from a space of fear. I think that that really is hard. harmful to the entire organization when people lead from fear, whether it was because something happened earlier in your career or former bosses got let go and then they got into another institution. When constantly leading from fear is detrimental to the rest of the staff, being afraid to make a mistake, that leads to not wanting to make a mistake and then making sure that everything's perfect and everything is not being perfect. And as Darryl said, we are not saving lives like medical professionals.

Dr. Gigi Secuban [00:40:52]: So whatever the Everything is, to something I found on Pinterest yesterday, everything is figureoutable. So we can all figure out how to go. There's always a different way to go. There's always a different path we can take and we don't have to focus on that. And I think to another point that Spencer made, the care piece also does not always require money. Like just showing you care every day, remembering birthdays, remembering people's names. I mean, I've worked with people, their bots still don't remember their name or can't pronounce their name correctly. So, I'm like, care doesn't always require financial things.

Dr. Gigi Secuban [00:41:24]: It could just be, just showing up is really important.

C. Spencer Platt [00:41:26]: So, I've never been a VP like, like you guys have. So, in many ways, it's from the outside looking in. But, you know, the thing that I always really enjoyed about the VPs that I've known and, and, and really enjoyed working with, working for, has been, you know, like how accessible sometimes people can be. You know, I think sometimes you see folks and it's like they got a wall around them. You, like, you can't even get an email That's more than 15 words. They're like, well, just call me. I really enjoy, and I think people really enjoy, VPs that they can, you know, they can talk to. And these folks are able to expound on things and help folks understand their vision, their philosophy in ways that are robust and feel authentic and real.

C. Spencer Platt [00:42:10]: And so they feel like real people, not just some robot administrator. So I would encourage folks to— you're already real. So just be real with the people who are working with and for you is my suggestion.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:22]: Spencer, and I can say, I appreciate your perspective, I think, even more because you've not occupied that seat. And this question will be more or less consistent for all of our guests this season, whether they're in their very first job or whether they're sitting in the VPSA seat, kind of with this idea that VPSAs are holding the culture of wellbeing in their leadership style. There's an ultimate responsibility across the organization and anyone who holds a supervisory role, but that culture begins, I think, with that VPSA seat. It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:42:59]: Thanks, Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world, and there's a ton of things happening in NASPA. The Women's Leadership Institute is happening on December 9th through the 11th at Agnes Scott College in Atlanta, Georgia. The Women's Leadership Institute is presenting Next Up. It's a 3-day workshop designed for women who seek new networking experiences and opportunities that offer strategies to lead in higher education. The topic of the Women's Leadership Institute is on Leading Forward: Women's Leadership for What's Next. Leading Forward brings forward women from all roles and career stages to explore what it means to lead with clarity, purpose, and sustainability. You can learn more about the keynotes, interactive workshops, and intentional networking that provide you with practical leadership strategies to bring back to your campus with topics such as Influence, Advocacy, and Getting to Yes, to New Strengths Leaders Need for What's Next, Leadership Networks and Strategic Relationships, and Sustainable Leadership and Personal Capacity.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:44:05]: These are only some of the sessions that will be found at the Leadership Institute. And if you have never checked this out, I highly encourage you to register or check it out today. You can find out more at acui.org. There's a brand new issue of the Journal of Women and Gender in Higher Education available to you as a member of NASPA. The Journal of Women and Gender in Higher Education publishes scholarship that centers around gender-based experiences experiences of students, faculty, and staff while examining oppression, including but not limited to patriarchy, sexism, trans oppression, and systemality as they interact with other systems of domination. The journal is particularly interested in manuscripts that not only focus on a gender-based group but also critically interrogate the ways in which gender has been used as a construct to limit opportunities and shape outcomes and experiences. The journal publishes high-quality and rigorous scholarship that can be used by NASPA members and others to transform daily practice, research, and the field of higher education. As I said, Volume 19, Issue 3 is now available.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:45:12]: If you go to the NASPA website under Publications, you can access this and all of the journals that are available to you as a member of NASPA. NASPA recently signed on to a coalition letter raising concerns about the current iteration of S.4428, the No Aid for Ghost Students Act. While NASPA supports efforts to prevent financial aid fraud and address ghost students, the bill's proposed fraud detection and identity verification requirements could create unintended barriers for legitimate students, particularly those already facing challenges accessing higher education. If you want to read the entire letter of concern, you can find that in the policy hub on the NASPA website. As you continue to think about attending the 2027 NASPA Annual Conference, know that there are a few different focus areas that the conference will be focused on in the proposals that are being submitted, as well as the things you're going to see while you're at the conference. And the 3 interconnected focus areas for NASPA's 2027 conference include leveraging the business of student affairs, the human-digital continuum leading with intention in a tech-driven the World, and Adapting with Purpose: An Agency in a New Era of Student Affairs. While we are past the submission deadline for submitting a program for the conference, as you prepare to go to the conference, know that individuals have been asked to look at these 3 areas while they were submitting their programs. So the programs that you're going to see at the conference itself will be focused around those different And if you have yet to register for the 2027 conference, it's not too late.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:46:54]: I encourage you to get your conference registration in. The conference is going to be happening March 6th through the 10th in National Harbor, Maryland. It's going to be a great time. And if you've never been to National Harbor, you definitely don't want to miss it. And it's going to be a great opportunity for you to be able to reconnect with friends, develop new relationships, and also find new people. peers from across the nation that you can connect with, learn from, and learn things that you can bring back to your own campus so that you can be a better practitioner that will help your institution and help you to better serve your students. So if you haven't signed up yet, go to the NASPA website, click under events to find out more. Every week we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:47:38]: So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the, the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's It's important to be able to identify for yourself, where do you fit? Where do you want to give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:48:55]: Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in Chris, thank you so much for helping us understand what's going on in and around NASPA. We always appreciate your updates. And now we have reached our lightning round. And with Darryl being a second-time guest on the pod, we have slightly different questions for him. So, Darryl, are you ready to go?

Darryl B. Holliman [00:49:16]: I am ready.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:49:17]: All right. Question 1, would you like to keep or change your entrance music song from last time?

Darryl B. Holliman [00:49:23]: You can change it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:49:24]: What would you like your entrance music song to be?

Darryl B. Holliman [00:49:26]: They're not like us.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:49:28]: Question 2, what was your undergrad degree and do you use it in your work now?

Darryl B. Holliman [00:49:32]: I got a Bachelor of Arts in English and probably not as much as I thought.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:49:37]: Number 3, your current guilty pleasure TV show binge?

Darryl B. Holliman [00:49:41]: Oh my God, Ted Lasso.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:49:43]: That film is just right down the street from where I live.

Darryl B. Holliman [00:49:45]: Oh my God, I'm visiting you.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:49:46]: Question 4, if someone ever visits your city, what's one place they must eat?

Darryl B. Holliman [00:49:50]: Mary Mac's on Ponce de Leon.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:49:52]: Number 5, your favorite work-related podcast?

Darryl B. Holliman [00:49:55]: Obama's new podcast, and I can't remember the name, but it goes over all, like, the 5 books that he thinks have shaped his life. That's been amazing.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:50:04]: Number 6, your favorite not work-related podcast?

Darryl B. Holliman [00:50:07]: Oh, my God. There is this podcast, and I'm really bad with names, so— but it's this— I love history, and so there's this podcast, it's actually in the UK, and they talk about the World War II era and the war of World War II and the Nazi regime. That's just fascinating to me.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:50:24]: And finally, number 7, any shoutouts you'd like to give, personal or professional?

Darryl B. Holliman [00:50:28]: Yes, I do. I would like to give a shout out to Lamar Hilton and to Mike Christakis, who are past board chair and board chair-elect, because at a very dark period of my professional career, they introduced me to soccer during FIFA. And, and without them and without their support and guidance, not only would I have my renowned love of soccer and football, they really helped me, and I appreciate it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:50:55]: Thank you, Darryl. You've made it to the end of your questions. And so now we are on to our lightning round with Gigi and Spencer. You ready to go?

Dr. Gigi Secuban [00:51:02]: We are ready.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:51:04]: All right. Question 1, if you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

Dr. Gigi Secuban [00:51:08]: I really love Best Friend by Doja Cat and Saweetie. She's half Filipino, so that's my jam.

C. Spencer Platt [00:51:13]: I think I would choose Superstar by Luther Vandross.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:51:17]: Number 2, when you were 5 years old, what did you want to be when you grew up?

Dr. Gigi Secuban [00:51:20]: Oh gosh, I wanted to be a doctor.

C. Spencer Platt [00:51:21]: I wanted to be a GI Joe. I wanted to be a soldier.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:51:23]: You know, number 3, who's your most influential professional mentor?

Dr. Gigi Secuban [00:51:27]: I would say Sylvia Scott. She was the director of student activities at Arkansas, and she's been retired for a while, but I still talk to her every week.

C. Spencer Platt [00:51:34]: Probably Sean Harper. I don't talk to him as much as, as much, but he's really been helpful to me at some really critical points in my career.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:51:41]: Number 4, your essential student affairs read. And you can say your own book if you want to.

Dr. Gigi Secuban [00:51:46]: Yeah, for right now it's in the middle for sure, but I really like, there's a book, Lean In. That's really good. It's not necessarily student affairs, but I love leadership books generally and self-help books.

C. Spencer Platt [00:51:56]: Yeah, I'm gonna say In the Middle too, and probably the other book Darryl and I did, From Boyhood to Manhood.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:52:02]: Number 5, the best TV show you've been binging lately.

Dr. Gigi Secuban [00:52:05]: I had to go back and do Hawaii Five-O, Jill. Not the old one, but the one from like 10 years ago. I'm binge watching that one.

C. Spencer Platt [00:52:12]: I can't remember the name of the show, but it's with the Wayans brothers and Pops. Oh, I think it's the Just recently, I just started watching that for some reason. I just like pop, you know?

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:52:21]: Number 6, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

Dr. Gigi Secuban [00:52:25]: Okay. So I'll, I'll admit, Jill, I haven't listened to any podcasts. I love Michelle Obama's. I've heard of them. I read about them, but I've actually not listened to one except for hers once.

C. Spencer Platt [00:52:35]: With podcasts, I listen to whatever my wife's listening to and she's got me into, you know, when I'm in the car with her, she listens to Keke Palmer.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:52:42]: Oh yeah. That's a great one.

C. Spencer Platt [00:52:44]: I just love their energy with, with that show.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:52:47]: And finally, number 7, any shoutouts you'd like to give, personal or professional?

Dr. Gigi Secuban [00:52:51]: Oh, I'll give a shoutout to my son Jonah. He just graduated from Montgomery College. He's going to be going to the University of Maryland in the fall. So shoutout to Jonah and also my family back in Arkansas.

C. Spencer Platt [00:53:00]: I want to give a shoutout to my wife, Andrea, and my 2 sons. Miles just made the football team 2 days ago at his middle school. He was really stressed out about that and he's excited he made it. And, uh, you know, Miles and Jackson.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:53:13]: Thank you all for taking the time to share with us the journey of this book and how folks can approach it. If anyone would like to reach you after the show, how can they find you?

Dr. Gigi Secuban [00:53:22]: My Montgomery College email, it's [email protected].

C. Spencer Platt [00:53:27]: My work email, [email protected].

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:53:32]: It's a good one, splat. It's like a noise.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:53:34]: Good.

Dr. Gigi Secuban [00:53:35]: Yeah, it is a noise. Yeah.

Darryl B. Holliman [00:53:37]: Yeah, probably the best way to reach me is through LinkedIn. I'm always checking that out.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:53:40]: Thank you all so very much for sharing your voices with us. Thank you.

Dr. Gigi Secuban [00:53:44]: Thank you so much, Jill. It was so fun.

C. Spencer Platt [00:53:47]: Yeah. Thanks for having us.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:53:49]: This has been an episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field brought to you by NASPA. This show is only made possible because of you, our listeners and our members. We continue to be so grateful that you choose to spend your time with us season after season. If you'd like to reach us here at the show, you can email us at [email protected], or You can find me on LinkedIn by searching for Dr. Jill L. Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. If you're interested in appearing on the show yourself, please do contact us.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:54:18]: We'd love it if you spend a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening from now. It really does help us in the student affairs community, as well as the podcasting community, to help our show grow. This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton. That's me.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:54:34]: Produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan-Flint and New York University London for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

Kicking off an energizing new season of NASPA's Student Affairs Voices from the Field Podcast, Dr. Jill Creighton sits down with Dr. Monica Nixon, Vice President for Community Access and Professional Pathways (CAP) at NASPA, to unpack the evolving landscape of professional development, belonging, and career advancement in student affairs. This episode is a must-listen for higher education professionals at every stage of their journey, as it paints a vivid portrait of both the personal and institutional pathways that make our field dynamic and inclusive.

Dr. Monica Nixon shares her winding and authentic career story, starting as a first-generation college student with an uncertain path, moving through roles in both public and private higher education, and now leading a critical portfolio at NASPA. Her experience building inaugural programs and her passion for equity, diversity, and professional development are front and center, illustrating how meaningful student affairs careers are often forged through curiosity, mentorship, purposeful pivots, and community engagement.

The heart of the conversation centers on the CAP portfolio at NASPA, a newly conceptualized area dedicated to providing intentional access to leadership, learning, and professional communities. Dr. Monica Nixon illuminates how CAP is designed to serve a broad spectrum of professionals—across job levels, institutional types, and backgrounds—by offering clear career pathways, mentoring opportunities, and accessible resources. The episode highlights upcoming initiatives, such as a new skills conference focused on in-demand competencies and the continued evolution of digital and in-person professional development tailored to members' unique needs.

Listeners will appreciate the practical guidance for getting involved with NASPA, whether you're a newcomer or a longtime member. From joining knowledge communities and steering committees to leveraging the soon-to-be refreshed NASPA website for curated resources, Dr. Monica Nixon makes it clear that there's a place for everyone to belong and grow. Her gratitude for NASPA's volunteer leaders underscores the importance of collective effort in driving innovation and support across the field.

Throughout the episode, themes of intentionality, inclusion, and purpose-driven leadership resonate. Dr. Monica Nixon offers tangible advice for supervisors and student affairs leaders: cultivate honest conversations about professional needs, support creative models for staff development, and embrace holistic approaches to wellbeing.

Whether you're seeking inspiration, career advice, or a greater sense of community in student affairs, this episode is your invitation to jump in and explore what NASPA's evolving landscape can offer. Don't miss this illuminating discussion—tune in and discover how you can shape your own pathway while uplifting others in the profession.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:02]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed professionals wherever you happen to be. This is Season 15, Enhancing the Career Pathways and Well-Being of Student Affairs Professionals. I'm Dr. Jill Creighton, she/her/hers, your SA Voices from the Field host. Welcome back to Student Affairs Voices from the Field. We hope you had an incredible summer and we're ready to kick off our next season of SA Voices from the Field. Monica is our very own NASPA Vice President for Community Access and Professional Pathways, also known as CAP, where she leads a team focused on providing access to leadership and career opportunities, supportive communities and mentors, and professional development geared towards meeting the evolving needs across the career lifespan in student affairs.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:55]: Previously, she served in student affairs, institutional equity, and administrative leadership roles at St. Joseph's University, Seattle University, Colgate University, the University of Puget Sound, and the University of Virginia. Dr. Nixon earned her BA in English in 1995 and Master of Education in Counselor Education in 1999 from the University of Virginia. In 2013, she earned an Ed.D. in Educational Leadership and Policy Studies from the University of Washington, where her dissertation focused on the positionality and agency of women of color chief diversity officers in higher education institutions. Monica co-authored a chapter in the 2012 NASPA-published book Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders in Higher Education: I hope you enjoy our conversation getting to know Monica. Monica, welcome to SA Voices.

Dr. Monica Nixon [00:01:37]: Thank you. I'm so excited to be here with you.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:39]: I'm so glad to have you here. It's been a long time coming that we have this episode. We've featured many a NASPA vice president over the last few seasons, and you are one of the newest NASPA vice presidents, having risen as a staff member to now leading a major part of the NASPA portfolio. So looking forward to learning about your journey and the new area that you're leading. And we always love to kick off our episodes by asking, how did you get to your current seat?

Dr. Monica Nixon [00:02:06]: Oh goodness. I think like many people, we are Gen Xers. We found our way into student affairs. So it wasn't something that I thought was a career option. I came into college not necessarily knowing what I wanted to be. I tried a lot of different majors. I thought I might be a journalist. I thought I might be a teacher.

Dr. Monica Nixon [00:02:22]: I thought I might go into publishing. And I really didn't know what I was going to do. And some of my friends were applying to law school. So I thought, okay. I'll apply to law school. And I was ready to go. And about April of my 4th year, my faculty advisor asked me to meet with him and said, I just have a question, Monica. And he had written my recommendation, so he knew me.

Dr. Monica Nixon [00:02:43]: I'd been in a few of his classes. And he said, can you tell me why you want to be an attorney? And I must have just had a flabbergasted look on my face because then he asked, do you know any attorneys? And I said, you know, I really don't. I'd never interacted with a lawyer. Nobody in my parents' circle was an attorney. And so he said, why don't I have you meet with a couple couple of them. So I did, and the way they described their jobs was not what I thought their jobs were. This was the time of LA Law. I thought I was going to be fixing the rights of the world.

Dr. Monica Nixon [00:03:09]: So I thought, I just need to pause. And so I deferred law school, and then I told my parents and my mother. I was a first-generation college student. My mom was a first-generation immigrant. Me pausing going to law school was not in the plan. And so I ended up taking an internship at the school where I went, which is the University of Virginia. It was in the executive vice president's office. I'd gotten to know him through my work as a student journalist, and I found that I'm really enjoyed the work.

Dr. Monica Nixon [00:03:35]: And I also got to talk with a lot of my mentors in a little bit more of a collegial way. And, and so I was asking them about their work, and I realized they actually got paid to be there. They didn't just show up and they were in an office every day. I don't know why I didn't think that was an actual job. So anyway, I ended up going to grad school part-time whilst maintaining that role. So I started as an intern. I ended up as a chief of staff after about 9 months. I was—

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:00]: That's a huge jump.

Dr. Monica Nixon [00:04:01]: It was a huge jump. I was 22 years old. I was learning so every single day. And I wanted to make good on the trust that the vice president had put into me. And so, I worked so hard, but I had this wonderful view of an institution at a very high level. So, institutional governance, athletics, working with the board, working with the state. And so, it was fabulous, and it was amazing, and it appealed to the learner in me. It appealed to the sense of purpose that I wanted out of my work.

Dr. Monica Nixon [00:04:29]: I ended up going to grad school. Part-time. When I graduated, we had just started an orientation and transfer student and new student family programs office. And so I ended up working in that office. I was a part of the, the, you know, the task force that proposed that. And so I, so my first true student affairs role was in orientation. And, and that, you know, again, I got to work with the mentors who had really poured into me as an undergraduate student. And I got to then think about how do we design a program that introduces students and families families to all of what higher education can mean for them.

Dr. Monica Nixon [00:05:07]: And so being able to start something new, it was wonderful. Working in orientation over and over again, I realized I need something— I like to create, I like new things. Doing the same thing each year didn't necessarily appeal to that. And so as an undergraduate student, I'd been really engaged with diversity and equity issues. I'd worked in the Office of African American Affairs. I'd been part of some different task forces. As an employee, I was also part of some of that work. And I realized that was also giving me a lot of, like, a sense of purpose.

Dr. Monica Nixon [00:05:40]: And so I looked for jobs that, that could, where I could do that full-time. So as I looked for my first job search on a national scale, I searched for multicultural affairs jobs. And I also wanted to be in a different kind of higher education sector. I'd been in public higher education at that point for, well, I'd been in public education my entire life. So all of my schooling, my own education, the first part of my career. And so I thought, I wonder what I wonder what private higher ed is like. I wonder what working at a small school would be like. So I looked for multicultural affairs jobs at small institutions, and I ended up at a place that I'd never even heard of.

Dr. Monica Nixon [00:06:17]: I actually interviewed at places that I'd never heard of, but I ended up at the University of Puget Sound, and I was in an inaugural full-time multicultural affairs role. So again, I got to start something new. I got to put in place structures that I wish I'd had as an undergraduate student and that I was hearing from students that they really wanted in terms of creating a sense of belonging and you know, a true sense that the institution, that they mattered to the institution. And so I got to do that. I did that for a couple of years. I had moved away from my family and was kind of missing them. I'd moved from Virginia to Tacoma, Washington, wanted to be closer to my family. So I ended up back on the East Coast.

Dr. Monica Nixon [00:06:55]: I was at Colgate University for a little while. I worked in a couple of different kinds of roles, again, in student activities and also like a cultural center, directing a cultural center. As much as I loved being back on the East Coast, I had just fallen in love with the Pacific Northwest. And so I came back out to Seattle University to direct the Office of Multicultural Affairs. Spent 10 years at Seattle U, so I didn't think I would be out there for that long. And while I was there, I pursued a doctorate in higher education, educational leadership and policy studies at the University of Washington.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:26]: It's really hard not to fall in love with the Pacific Northwest if you've never been there before.

Dr. Monica Nixon [00:07:31]: It's true.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:32]: Proudly, Washington is my home state, and there's every climate there except for tundra. So you get mountains, desert, rainforest. It's the only rainforest in the contiguous So from, from an environmental perspective, it's really, really hard not to love the PNW and it doesn't rain as much as people say it does.

Dr. Monica Nixon [00:07:49]: It doesn't, though we don't like to tell people that. So, because then everyone will move here. No, I just came off a weekend of backpacking and I was reminded again of why I live out here. But anyway, I was at Seattle U, got my doctorate, was working as an assistant vice president of student development at Seattle U. And I had this moment where I realized again that The equity work that I'd been doing, it was a part of my role, but it wasn't central to my role. And I had actually been advised not to seek chief diversity officer positions as I came out of my doctorate by very well-meaning mentors who were concerned that I might be pigeonholed into— I'd done that work for 15 years. My dissertation focused on the experiences of women serving as chief diversity officers. And so the advice that I received at that time from some of my mentors who really know me well, was maybe think about something a little bit broader so that you have a more generalist background to bring to future searches.

Dr. Monica Nixon [00:08:47]: So I did that for a couple of years, and then I realized I really do miss centering the equity work that I was doing. So I moved to St. Joseph's University in Philadelphia, which is another Jesuit institution, and I was there as the chief diversity officer. Did that for a couple of years, and then a position at NASPA opened up, and I thought, I wonder— I had thought about association work previously in my career, but I was worried that I might miss the work that happens in building communities over time on a campus. And so I'd been engaged with NASPA. I knew the board chair at the time. I'd had the opportunity to meet the then-president, Kevin Krueger, and I thought this could be an interesting time to try working in an association. And so I started, so I applied and was fortunate enough to be offered the role to serve as the, I think the title was Assistant Vice President of Equity, Inclusion, and Social Justice.

Dr. Monica Nixon [00:09:40]: And as had been the case at St. Joe's, I was, it was an inaugural So this is a theme, and I think the role changed quite a bit, and this happens with inaugural roles. An organization thinks, we're going to create this role, and then the first person who comes into it will help us develop it, implement it, figure out what fits. We were engaged in that work, and then the global pandemic happened, and our organization changed a lot in a pretty short amount of time. This happened across, I mean, obviously many, many sectors, including higher ed. And so our primary goal during that time was to stay close to our members. And so a lot of the work that I ended up doing during that period had to do with member engagement. How do we create, make sure that our members continue to feel that they belong, that they have access to the things that matter to them? And so as we were coming out of the pandemic, then stabilized as an organization, found some stability in the field, I think those threads of how do we help members create or feel a sense of belonging in the association? How do we make sure that all of our members feel that they can access opportunities, professional development, in ways that meet their needs.

Dr. Monica Nixon [00:10:50]: That really then became the locus, the focus of the work that this role and portfolio has evolved into.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:57]: Well, Monica, I think this leads us nicely into what is included in the CAP portfolio within NASPA. It's a brand new area. I know, at least for me, in the areas that I serve within NASPA volunteer leadership, you have global, which is near and dear to my heart. But what else is included in this area?

Dr. Monica Nixon [00:11:13]: Thank you. So the broad frame of community access and professional pathways certainly includes a lot, and I really appreciate your question, Jill. And I'll start with where you, where you just mentioned, which is our global members. So when we think about the community of our members and making sure that the people who choose NASPA as one of their professional homes, that they know how to access learning, they know how to access communities, and they know how to access professional development. So our global members are a part of that. Also in our portfolio, we are thinking about members who serve at different kinds of institutions. So minority-serving institutions, our small colleges and universities, community colleges, our large institutions, rural institutions, and more. So overall, what we're focused on is creating an intentional ecosystem guided by a cohesive content strategy that's articulated by professional level so that our members can personalize their journey through NASPA.

Dr. Monica Nixon [00:12:10]: So if they know that they are a mid-level professional who is interested in becoming maybe an assistant vice president, that we have helped them understand, here are the things that you need to know. Here are the skills that you're going to be asked to demonstrate. And these are the ways to find those. And so it might be that I really need to lean into some of the operational pieces. And so we have a skills conference that's going to be launching in fall of 2028. And so that might be a really good opportunity for you to fill some of the gaps as you want to think about this journey. And so being much more clear, I think one of the pieces of feedback that we hear from our members is that we have a lot at NASPA, and sometimes it can be hard to figure out where do I plug in? How do I find the community where I'll have access to mentors and colleagues who can help me think about my role? How do I know what I don't know? How do I discern my student affairs path? And that's the really the work that we're doing in Community Access and Professional Pathways for all of our members. We are also thinking about the placement exchange falls under our portfolio as well as we're doing that work with Akuho'i and NASPA.

Dr. Monica Nixon [00:13:22]: So how do we help members be ready for that next opportunity? And then the final piece that's in the CAP portfolio is our NASPA advisory services. So as divisions and departments are thinking about excellence, we want to deliver excellence to our students. How do we connect them with subject matter experts. And so that NASBA Advisory Services portfolio helps to do that. So again, it's that, how are we creating this ecosystem, this learning ecosystem for both divisions and individual members?

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:51]: That's a lot. And I think you've posed a really great question for especially new members or members who have been around a while, but maybe don't engage much beyond annual conference or something like that. The getting plugged in and finding the lane of the pathway that I can develop on, I think is a bit of an intimidating thing when you're new to NASPA. So if I'm new to NASPA, where should I start?

Dr. Monica Nixon [00:14:13]: Right now, you would start probably with one of the— if you're in a functional area, so knowledge communities are a really great place to start. So we have functional area and affinity knowledge communities. So that's a good place to kind of find your people. So people who are doing similar work, who may identify in similar ways as you. And so I think that's a really good way to start to plug in. We also have steering committees. So if you are a new professional, we have a New Professionals and Graduate Students Steering Committee. We have a Mid-Level Administrators Steering Committee, AVP Steering Committee, and then we also have one for vice presidents called the James E.

Dr. Monica Nixon [00:14:50]: Scott Academy. So that's our Vice President Steering Committee. And so those professional-level steering committees can also be really important communities, again, to find people who are 0 to 5 years for new professionals, who are just coming in as a new professional. Even connecting with a peer who has been in the field for 3 or 4 years, What do you wish you had known when you first started? I think the mid-level steering committee similarly has a pretty broad range of folks, some people who are brand new to a mid-level role, and then some people who have been in a mid-level role for 10, 15, 20 years. And so being able to access colleagues who can provide that mentoring, the grounding of what you might need to know. So I think that matrixed with some of the functional area communities, I think would be a really good start. We're also, as we move ahead, our new NASPA website, our resources, are going to be presented to members in a way that makes it easier to find those spaces, to make those connections. You could come to, in a not-so-future state, a near-future state, you will be able to come to the NASPA website and say, I'm a new professional.

Dr. Monica Nixon [00:15:54]: Okay, I'll get that new professional. But we already know that new professionals, because we've worked with our members, they've provided us lots of input, and our steering committee has helped us to articulate this. We know that new professionals need to know these things and our resources. So we're going to be able to provide a curated of resources to our members by where they are, what they say they need, what they're interested in learning. And so in a not-so-distant near-future state, our resources will be presented to members in a way that I think makes more sense to that learning path.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:16:26]: I'm looking forward to a new website. That's really exciting.

Dr. Monica Nixon [00:16:29]: Yes.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:16:30]: I want to revisit something you mentioned earlier in our conversation, which is this development of a brand new conference offering for skills development, which is really unique because NASPA has typically been organized around level in the profession or specific functional area topics. So I'm thinking like strategies or the Aspiring VPSA conference, things like that, or even interest areas like manicure for women and things like that. So what is going on with this new skills conference in terms of what would I expect to learn? How do I approach it? Who is this for?

Dr. Monica Nixon [00:17:00]: So we have 2 new conference offerings that are coming out in the next 2 years. So one of them is this skills conference. And I mentioned earlier an ecosystem that was guided by a cohesive content strategy. And so what we've done is to identify And we've taken lots of data, primarily from our steering committees, and then also from work that NASPA was engaged in with the student affairs certification. We know the skills that people have identified as crucial to their success as student affairs administrators. And so we've articulated those into some learning content pillars with various key skills associated with those. And there are actually probably 30 of them. So a skills conference will not cover all of those, but the intention is that based on what we're hearing from members as really critical right now.

Dr. Monica Nixon [00:17:50]: These are things that, as the field is evolving, in a given year we might lean into, you know, I mentioned earlier, maybe the organizational leadership and management pieces. In another year, we might lean into more of the law, policy, and governance skills areas. We might think about strategic communication as something that we need to be looking at in a much more in-depth way. So this gives us the flexibility to create learning experiences around skills that are part of an overall framework, but that we can focus on a certain subset of these skills in a given year. That in-person conference won't be the only opportunity. We also plan to supplement that with virtual programming, integrating some of these skills in a very clear way into some of our other programs. So as you think, as we think about assessment and data use, I mean, that's really applicable in any of our learning experiences. So, you know, again, some of these could be cross-cutting across all of our events, but we can also then do a deep dive into this skills conference.

Dr. Monica Nixon [00:18:50]: We're also going to be launching a Pathways Conference where it's bringing together some of the smaller programs that we've done in the past. So some of our aspiring programs, you mentioned Banneker, but really thinking about a program, a conference that allows us to create some of those smaller network opportunities in a— and also connection to a broader group of people who are also thinking about what's my pathway in student affairs.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:19:14]: Are there any key leaders on your team that you'd like to shout out or kind of share a little bit about where folks can turn to or who folks can turn to if they're curious about some of these more specific offerings or these specific areas that you're leading in CAP?

Dr. Monica Nixon [00:19:28]: Of course. So Janelle Ryans oversees our global area, and so I think she's a wonderful person to connect with there. Kiana Bradley on our team will be leading much of the work of the institutional types. Earlier I mentioned we're going to be thinking about small colleges, community colleges, and more. And so that's work that she's really helping us to focus and develop in broader ways. We have Joey DeSanto, who's helping us think about those professional levels. So he'll be working a lot with our steering committees. We have Abby Vollmer, who heads up our NASPA Advisory Services.

Dr. Monica Nixon [00:20:02]: And so I think those are 4 folks who can really, if people have any questions about the work that we're doing, that's the, that's a team that I get to work with quite a bit, um, and really value their leadership and vision as we're, as we are on this Community Access and Professional Pathways journey.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:19]: Is there anything else that you wanna make sure NASPA members hear about the work that's happening in CAP or how it might be different from what had been happening before, or just generally, uh, a message for our listeners? Yes.

Dr. Monica Nixon [00:20:36]: Thank you for that question. You know, some of the work that we are doing in CAP has been done in other places. And so, you know, it, it, we do have the, I'm excited about some of the new work that we're developing, but I'm also excited about about having the work that has been happening in various places feel connected to a broader framework. And for me, that is, that's really important. I'm, one of the groups that I'm, I'm, I'm always so, I'm in awe and also so thankful for is our NASBA volunteers. So the volunteer leaders who commit their time, and we have 2,000 volunteer leaders in any given year. And so in many ways, our volunteer leaders have identified gaps and then filled those gaps. So our steering committees are a great example of that, or our knowledge communities are a great example of that.

Dr. Monica Nixon [00:21:26]: I want to make sure that that work feels really connected to what the broader NASPA organization is doing. So I think it's, it's both a, both a thank you to our members who have helped us realize the need for a space like this and a way to frame community access and professional pathways in this way, and also an ask that we continue to be good partners in that work as we move ahead.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:49]: So Monica, I'm going to turn us towards our theme questions for this season. And our theme questions align so cleanly with the work that you're doing at NASPA. And we're focusing our theme this season on the NASPA strategic plan's first vision line, which is that we're working towards enhancing the career pathways and wellbeing of student affairs professionals as a primary goal in the organization. So my first question of 2 is, what's one easy thing and one hard thing that supervisors can do to enhance the career pathways of the That's a great question.

Dr. Monica Nixon [00:22:24]: And I'm going to say something that is actually not new. I would say it's having the conversations with your teams and the members of your teams about what do they find interesting about their roles? What do they find difficult about their roles? What do they need to know in order to be more successful in those roles? And then supporting that learning. And I understand that where higher education is right now, there are a lot of stressors, financial stressors in terms of supporting professional development. So I would say in having supervisors and leaders think about and divisions work with professional associations to provide that professional development in accessible ways. So certainly going to a conference is one way to provide that professional development, but there are other ways to do that. There are ways to work with— there's virtual programming, which we're hoping to really build out according to this learning framework, but also ways, if it's working at the regional level, to create things that are a little bit less time away, less costly perhaps to support. So really thinking innovatively about professional development. But I would say mainly it's understanding those questions about what are student affairs staff finding rewarding, and then what are student affairs staff finding challenging, and then working to address those challenges.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:37]: And our second question in our theme, what might you want VPSAs to consider regarding the holistic wellbeing of student affairs professionals that perhaps they're not already thinking about?

Dr. Monica Nixon [00:23:47]: Thank you for this question, Jill. It's so important to the work that we do. In spring of 2026, NASPA published a report called Centering the Student Affairs Workforce Task Force report. That's a mouthful, but it was a task force of staff in divisions of student affairs whose work is really focused on staff well-being and professional development.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:24:09]: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Monica Nixon [00:24:09]: And so, you know, we already have experts who are doing this work in some pretty innovative ways on campuses. And so that report is a great resource because it has innovative examples that are happening on campuses, and it also comes with an implementation guide of ways that divisional leaders can ask key questions and then build them into their planning processes to support their staff. So I say that's one really important resource.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:24:34]: That resource is available for free on the NASPA website. Again, that's Centering the Student Affairs Workforce, and it was launched in 2026 in March. Huge working group that's listed there and just some really great resources for you to check out. So please Google for that. You don't have to be a current member to get it. It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA Hey, Jill.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:59]: So excited to be back in the NASPA world, and there's a ton of things happening in NASPA. The call for programs and reviewers for the National 2027 NASPA Annual Conference will be closing on Wednesday, September 23rd. If you've been thinking about submitting a program for the 2027 NASPA Annual Conference, now is the best time to be able to put that in and get that ready to go because the annual conference is stronger than ever, and it becomes even stronger stronger when more perspectives are included. So you can share your research, some practice, and more by submitting a program and a proposal. You can also apply to serve as a reviewer and help us to build a well-rounded conference program with thousands of attendees. Beyond the call to programs, NASPA is also looking for you to share some of your own excitement about the NASPA 2027 conference. In the past few emails that have been sent out to all NASPA Members, they have been asking you to share a short video about what you're most looking forward to, and I encourage you to do just that. There's a new Title IX certificate program on informal resolutions that you can sign up for now.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:10]: That'll begin on September 24th and also continue on October 29th. Formal resolution is becoming a standard part of the Title IX process, and getting it right is essential for all parties involved. This training is going to cover what fairness implementation looks like, who is equipped to lead it, and the benefits and challenges shaping the practice. The certificate is led by Peter Lake, a higher education law expert, and Christine Goodwin, a trained mediator. You can sign up for the certificate by going to learning.naspa.org and sign up today. As we prepare for the next Strategies Conference, there is a peer education Education Champion Award that you can nominate people for. You have until November 6th, 2026, to nominate someone for the 2026 Peer Education Award. This recognizes outstanding contributions to peer education made between November 25th and October 2026.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:08]: Categories for the award include Peer Educator, Peer Education Group, Peer Education Advisor, and Graduate Student. If you know someone doing great work in this space, I encourage you to nominate to help recognize the people and programs making a difference for students. You can learn more if you go to the NASPA website, click under Events, and go to the Strategies Conference. Also, on a regular basis, you should be receiving a biweekly policy update from NASPA. And usually in every email that you get, there is a great breakdown from our policy experts telling you about all of the changes in policy that will impact you and And just in our last NASPA update, we were informed that an audio summary is now available with each biweekly policy update. This is going to offer you another way to be able to stay informed about the latest federal and state policy developments affecting higher education and student affairs. You can subscribe to the biweekly policy update by joining the NASPA Policy Hub to stay connected to the latest policy news and announcements. Every week we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:17]: So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the, the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself, where do you fit? Where do you want to give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger, And the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:39]: Chris, thank you so much for sharing with us our first edition this season of What's Going On In and Around NASPA. And Monica, we have reached our lightning round where I've got 7 questions for you to answer in about 90 seconds. Are you ready?

Dr. Monica Nixon [00:29:52]: I am.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:53]: All right, let's do this. Question number 1, if you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance Oh, goodness.

Dr. Monica Nixon [00:30:00]: I'm Coming Out by Diana Ross.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:02]: Number 2, when you were 5 years old, what did you want to be when you grew up?

Dr. Monica Nixon [00:30:05]: An astronaut.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:06]: Question number 3, who's your most influential professional mentor?

Dr. Monica Nixon [00:30:09]: Gosh, I have so many. I'll name 2. So my first boss was Leonard Sandridge. He was the executive vice president at the University of Virginia. So he's the first person who gave that job and I think taught me a lot of lessons about what it means to, to support the people around you. And then Houston Daugherty, who I met him when he was at the University of Puget Sound and he hired me there. And we became great friends and colleagues. He recently passed, which is a huge loss to the field and students and the community of people who have loved him.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:37]: Number 4, your essential student affairs read.

Dr. Monica Nixon [00:30:40]: Ooh, The Caring University by Kevin McClure. And I think a lot about empathy and that the work that I think student affairs does is to try and cultivate empathy. And Kyle Reyes wrote a book called Lenses of Humanity. I actually can't remember when it came out, but it's a great read about, about empathy and how do you build more Number 5, the best TV show you've been binging lately? Ted Lasso season 4 just came out, so I'm so excited about that one.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:04]: Number 6, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year?

Dr. Monica Nixon [00:31:07]: Hmm. I love Wildcard on NPR, which is interesting because this lightning round scares me a little bit, and the whole idea of Wildcard is that you don't know what you're going to be asked. And so I kind of like listening to how people respond to that and hearing people's stories.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:22]: And finally, number 7, any shoutouts you'd like to give, personal or professional?

Dr. Monica Nixon [00:31:25]: I would shout out to the whole Community Access and Professional Development National Pathways team. You know, this is a team of people who are, who've helped to create a vision together, and I'm so excited to work on that with them. The NASPA executive team, I think we are working in really creative and new ways to support our members, and I'm loving that. On a personal note, my family, and I think the community of friends who have been my chosen family for decades.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:50]: Monica, it's been such a pleasure to get to know you a little bit better. We've seen your face around the conferences for years, and now we get to know your story. So thank you for that. If folks would like to get ahold of you after episode airs, how can they find you?

Dr. Monica Nixon [00:32:02]: They can find me at my NASPA email address, which is [email protected], or on LinkedIn.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:10]: Monica, thank you so very much for sharing your voice with us today.

Dr. Monica Nixon [00:32:13]: Thank you, Jill. Thanks, Kris.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:16]: This has been an episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field brought to you by NASPA. This show is only made possible because of you, our listeners and our members. We continue to be so We're so grateful that you choose to spend your time with us season after season. If you'd like to reach us here at the show, you can email us at [email protected] or find me on LinkedIn by searching for Dr. Jill L. Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. If you're interested in appearing on the show yourself, please do contact us.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:45]: We'd love it if you spend a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening to podcasts.

Dr. Monica Nixon [00:32:51]: Thank you.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:51]: from now. It really does help us in the student affairs community, as well as the podcasting community to help our show grow. This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton. That's me. Produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint and New York University London for your support as we create this project.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:10]: Catch you next time.

NASPA's Student Affairs Voices from the Field Podcast is back for its fifteenth season, and hosts Dr. Jill Creighton and Dr. Christopher Lewis are shining a spotlight on two vital themes: the many pathways a student affairs career can take, and the importance of well-being for professionals in the field.

This season's central message is clear—career advancement isn't just about climbing the ladder. As Dr. Jill Creighton highlights, growth can mean leading from your current position, embracing lateral opportunities, or redefining success on your own terms. These conversations encourage professionals to consider fulfillment, impact, and personal satisfaction as key measures of progress.

Equally important is the focus on well-being. Dr. Christopher Lewis stresses the need for both practical professional development and support for mental and emotional health. The show promises insights and strategies for finding balance and sustaining passion throughout a career.

Listeners will hear from leaders like Dr. Monica Nixon and learn about resources such as NASPA's new CAP initiative. Above all, the podcast invites listeners to reflect, connect, and chart authentic, sustainable career journeys—making this a must-listen season for anyone in student affairs

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:01]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed professionals wherever you happen to be. This is Season 15, Enhancing the Career Pathways and Well-Being of Student Affairs Professionals. I'm Dr. Jill Creighton, she/her/hers, your SA Voices from the Field host. Hey, Chris, glad to be back with you.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:29]: Yeah, glad to be back. It is a New term, new fall, new season.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:34]: Your students just moved in. Mine come in a couple of days. How was your summer?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:38]: It was very busy, and we've been working really hard to get ready for the students to head back in. And it's always exciting to be able to see them back on campus and see that energy return to campus as well.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:50]: I fully agree with you. And this year on my campus, we're doing something completely different and beginning with a first-year student retreat away from our campus. So that's been an incredible lift of the team that I'm working with to have this brand new experience. And I got to meet one of our students just the other day who told me they are super nerdy, geeked out, excited for this. So I hope that nerdy, geeked out excitement can stay with us here on the pod and energize our professionals that are listening going forward. But we're back with Season 15. Can you believe it's 15?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:19]: I can't. It has gone by really fast and we've had so many amazing conversations over the years. And I am so excited for this season though, with our theme. It is, I think, going to really resonate with all of our listeners.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:33]: Many of you know that NASPA launched a new strategic plan recently at the last annual conference in 2026 spring. And so as we were talking with our great NASPA colleagues, Chris and I were able to land on a theme that both enhances the strategic plan as well as continues to bring forward your voices in ways that we haven't heard before. So our theme this year is going to carry forward the excellent work of the association. And this season, Season 15, is Enhancing the Career pathways and well-being of student affairs professionals. That's a lot of words. Chris, what are we talking about here?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:09]: You know, I think for all of us, as we were looking at this, we were trying to think of all of us that are members of the association are at different places. And whether you're at the very beginning of your career, whether you're at the middle of your career, maybe you're a senior level, or maybe you're getting toward the end of your career, that there are things that we can provide as professional development professional development through the audio format to be able to enhance the experience that you have with the association, which is really what this strategic plan is all about. It's how do we enhance the experience that you are having with the association? And I am really excited about this plan that they are pushing forward and the work that they're doing right now. And I truly feel that this season is going to resonate well, as I said earlier, because of the fact that we're talking to people about things that are going to be meaningful, not only for their professional work, but also for their professional development.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:05]: We've already recorded a couple of episodes, and the theme that has already started to pop out for me, a theme within the theme, if you will, is that career pathways doesn't have to mean upward trajectory. There's lots of different ways that a career can progress. There's lots of different ways that a career can kind of move in advance, and that doesn't necessarily have to mean taking on higher-level titles or supervising more people or whatever it might look like to you. And so there's some really great conversations coming for you about what looks like to lead in your current place. Our very first episode is going to feature Dr. Monica Nixon, who is one of the NASPA vice presidents and one who we haven't heard from yet on the pod. She's overseeing the new area for NASPA called CAP, which is an abbreviation, which she'll share more about in terms of what that includes, what that incorporates, and how this new area within NASPA is supporting all of our career progression. So, something to look forward to.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:00]: Chris, anything else that we want our listeners to know?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:02]: I would just say, as you're listening to this season, as you're thinking and reflecting back on your own experience within the association. If there are things that you have an interest in having us cover, if there are things that you want us to be able to think about as we're thinking about the entire year and moving forward, we want to hear from you. And I know we've said this before, but it means a lot to us when we hear your voices and we hear from you on the experiences that you're having, but also what you want to hear and what you want to learn from the podcast itself. So send us an email, [email protected]. We would love to hear from you and learn more about your own experiences.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:43]: And as always, we're very open to your casting suggestions. So if you would like to feature your own voice, please don't hesitate to reach out. I'll repeat that email one more time, [email protected]. Chris, I look forward to working with you on this season.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:57]: Same here. Looking forward to a great season.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:00]: This has been an episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field brought to you by NASPA. This This show is only made possible because of you, our listeners and our members. We continue to be so grateful that you choose to spend your time with us season after season. If you'd like to reach us here at the show, you can email us at [email protected] or find me on LinkedIn by searching for Dr. Jill L. Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. If you're interested in appearing on the show yourself, please do contact us.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:28]: We'd love it if you spend a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening from now. It really does help us in the student affairs community, as well as the podcasting community to help our show grow. This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton. That's me. Produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint and New York University London for your support as we create this project.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:54]: Catch you next time.

In the Season 14 finale of Student Affairs Voices from the Field, powerhouse sports executive Raven Jemison joins Dr. Jill Creighton for a masterclass in authentic leadership, resilience, and self-advocacy. Whether you're an early-career professional or a seasoned leader, this conversation offers actionable insights you can carry into your next student affairs challenge.

A Journey Shaped by Passion and Persistence

Raven Jemison, now president of the Kansas City Current, didn't set out to break barriers in the male-dominated world of professional sports leadership. Originally on a path to optometry, she pivoted to sports business after following her heart—and a newspaper ad—to her first sales gig with the Florida Panthers. From there, her determination propelled her career through multiple leagues, culminating in her historic role overseeing the first purpose-built women's soccer stadium in the world.

Leadership 'Cheat Codes' for Every Professional

A highlight from the episode is Raven Jemison's discussion of her book, More Than the Cheat Codes to Your Own Seat at the Table. Drawing on the nostalgic spirit of old-school video games, she shares "cheat codes" for professional success. One standout tip? Every six months, take time to reflect on not just your daily duties, but the value you've added, and what new skills you need to keep growing. As Dr. Jill Creighton and Raven Jemison discuss at 08:52, this practice is just as relevant in higher ed as it is on the business side of sports.

Boundaries, Balance, and Being Seen

A recurring theme is the importance of protecting your peace, especially in high-visibility roles that demand constant energy. Raven Jemison candidly recounts a pivotal moment in her career when she asked for time off during an NBA All-Star event—a decision made from necessity, not fear, and met with unexpected support. Her advice? Set clear boundaries, advocate for your needs, and trust that your contributions—and your well-being—both matter (17:03).

Building Genuine Connections and Communities

Finding the right advocates, making friendships at work, and supporting others forms another pillar of Raven Jemison's philosophy. She urges professionals to know themselves first, then intentionally find and nurture supportive relationships, both inside and outside the workplace (21:18).

Tune In and Level Up

This episode is full of wisdom for anyone looking to move forward intentionally, serve students effectively, and lead with purpose. Listen to the full conversation for strategies you can apply today—your next professional "level up" may be just a podcast away!

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:01]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts brought to you by naspa. We curate free and accessible professional development for higher education professionals wherever you happen to be. This is season 14 continuing our conversation on the value of Student Affairs. I'm Dr. Jill Creighton. Sheher hers your Essay Voices from the Field host. Hey Essay Voices. Welcome back and today we're bringing you the final episode from the 2026 Annual Conference episode Series.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:34]: Today we're featuring Raven Jemison, who was one of the keynote speakers at Annual Conference. And at the conference she sat down with Dr. Amelia Parnell, our NASPA president, to talk about her book and her journey. Raven is currently the Team President for the Kansas City Current, which is a women's Major League Soccer team, and she also wrote the book More Than the Cheat Codes to Own youn Seat at the Table the Raven was appointed the team President of the Kansas City Current in January of 2024. She oversees all business operations and led the club while opening the inaugural season in CPKC Stadium. She joined the club after spending the previous four seasons as the Executive Vice President of Business operations for the NBA's Milwaukee Bucks. Off the court, her leadership enabled the Bucs to produce impressive growth across all revenue generating departments while focusing on operational excellence and efficiencies. Her sports career began in the NHL as an inside sales representative for the Florida Panthers.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:28]: From there, she worked her way up the corporate ladder with the Pittsburgh Pirates in Major League Baseball, San Francisco 49ers in the NFL before joining the NBA's Team Marketing and Business Operations department. Beyond her executive success, Raven is the author of the book More Than the Cheat Codes to Own youn Own Seat at the Table, which is a memoir that chronicles her rise as a queer black woman navigating and reshaping the traditionally male dominated sports industry. In 2021, she she was named one of AD Week's Most Powerful Women in Sports. She was notably a 2022 SBJ Game Changer and in 2025 she became a KCBJ Woman of Influence, one of 10 NKC Innovators and Influencers, and earned the Women leaders in sports 2025 most resilient award. I hope you enjoy this conversation. Raven, welcome to Essay Voices.

Raven Jemison [00:02:17]: Thank you. It's good to be here. Jill.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:18]: We're so grateful for your time and we know how busy you are running a major sports team and we're grateful to have you spend some time at the annual conference this year in your city of Kansas City as well as with us on the podcast now. And I see you repping the gear,

Raven Jemison [00:02:32]: no question, every day, all day.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:34]: Well, for those of you who did not get to meet Raven at our annual conference, she is leading one of Major League Soccer's premier teams in the women's side of the league. And we just love to get to know all of our guests by starting with the question, how did you get to your current seat?

Raven Jemison [00:02:49]: Yeah, I love answering this question, partly because it led me to write the book that I'm sure we'll talk about in, in a, in a minute. But I got here by being focused on the quote, unquote end goal, knowing that this is obviously not the end for me. Hopefully I have a lot more left in my career. But I actually started, went to college, thought I was going to be an optometrist and did all the things to become an optometrist except actually go to optometry school. I was accepted into optometry school and decided to defer a year because growing up as an athlete, growing up as the, the true tomboy that I still am today, loving sports, wanted to be in sports. Somehow I knew it wasn't going to be on the playing surface because I'm 54 on a really good day. But I always say I have 5, 10 energy and I figured okay, so there's no path professionally playing, so what can I do to just be close to the game, whatever game that might be. And sports business was creeping up kind of in the background.

Raven Jemison [00:03:45]: I had done some internships at Auburn University where I graduated from, and it was just pulling on me. And I asked my parents if I could defer a year and I could defer optometry school and they said sure. I wanted to see if I could get a job in sports. Didn't know what that looked like, how I was gonna get there, but I was gonna do my darndest to get there. So I took the year, found one of my friends was in grad school in Miami at the time and I went to go visit her, opened up the newspaper and there was an ad for a career fair at the Florida Panthers. And I was like, don't know what career fair at the Florida Panthers means, but I know that there's all the sports teams will be represented and I'm just gonna give it my best shot. And this, this is a sign. So I went and bought an ill fitting suit from somewhere and hopped in line at career fair to talk to all four of the major sports teams down There.

Raven Jemison [00:04:31]: And the last conversation of the day was the Florida Panthers. And I talked to their head of inside sales and convinced him that somehow I would be the best seller for him. Even though I'd never watched a hockey game live, didn't know anything about the sport. But I said that there was going to be no one that worked harder than me. So that was my first job in sports. $7.25 an hour deferred optometry school. Haven't looked back. As you can tell, I'm not an optometrist today.

Raven Jemison [00:04:55]: So that was it. And I loved it. I love every minute of it. It was hard, but I knew I was exactly where I was supposed to be. So, Florida Panthers to the Pittsburgh Pirates to the San Francisco 49ers to the NBA League office in New York, the Milwaukee Bucks after my stint at the NBA League office. And now the Kansas City Current.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:12]: You've worked for almost every major league sports league in the country?

Raven Jemison [00:05:15]: Every? Yeah, every core four major men's sports. NBA, NHL, Major League Baseball, and NFL. And now I'm in women's sports. The National Women's Soccer League, the nwsl, representing arguably one of the best teams in the league.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:28]: I was bummed I couldn't get to the stadium. The Current have, as far as I understand, the only dedicated women's soccer stadium in the U.S. that's right.

Raven Jemison [00:05:36]: First ever purpose built stadium for women's soccer in the world here in Kansas City. We opened up in 2024.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:42]: So all of this rich experience. You have a book out, as you mentioned, which we'll talk about, but how did you end up at naspa?

Raven Jemison [00:05:49]: It's a great question. I believe it was sequoyah. Mike reached out to our head of, Dani Welniak, who is an absolute rock star. And I got the email and I asked her, are you sure they're asking about the right person? Because not that I don't appreciate education, I obviously would not be here without it, but what am I gonna say that's relevant to them? And we had a conversation and we worked it out and it was a great conversation with Amelia on stage. And I would say the rest is history, but we're still talking today, so I love it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:20]: I could just see you and Amelia, like, immediately sparking in the best possible ways, she's just a rock star in higher education and. And has, I think, similar identity journeys to yourself. As far as what I've seen in terms of being a woman of color leading in predominantly male spaces, bringing other marginalized identities to the table, being collegiate athletes, all of these things.

Raven Jemison [00:06:41]: Yeah, absolutely. We hit it off right away. We, we are still communicating back and forth. We definitely have to get some time off the stage. Cause she definitely is a kindred spirit for sure.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:50]: Absolutely. Well, we were loving seeing you on stage and bringing the perspective that you do in leadership. We referenced the book quite a lot on that day. And so for those if you who haven't checked it out yet, it's called more than the cheat codes to your own seat at the table, released in 2023. I love the COVID as well. Like the 8 bit video game reference and the artistry of yourself as a hooping person. It's great.

Raven Jemison [00:07:13]: Yeah, that's a shout out to Zelda. I told the store before I released the book, but I was thinking about how to identify the cheat codes or how to actually theme out what the book should be in terms of making it easy to read and have people attracted to it. And immediately I thought about the cheat codes of leadership. Like how do you get. Not that you want to cheat your way, but what are kind of the, the back channel ways to figure out how to get that seat at the table. And Zelda kept coming up in my mind the Legend of Zelda. And, and I tell this story in the lead up to releasing the book, but I was the person that was trying to beat the Legend of Zelda the right way. Like doing the whole going through all the levels.

Raven Jemison [00:07:54]: And then one of my friends way, way to my house and had the Nintendo Power magazine that had all the cheat codes. And I'm like, well, wait a minute. And they had moved on past the Legend of Zelda. They were playing other games. And I'm like, wait a minute now. No one told me this. No one told me that there was this entire world of cheat codes. So that is the tie to the cheat codes to own your seat at the table, but also the avatar on the front.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:08:16]: I love it. That speaks to my millennial heart.

Raven Jemison [00:08:19]: Love it, love it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:08:20]: The Nintendo Power flashback. But for me, it was Super Mario Brothers 3. That was the one.

Raven Jemison [00:08:25]: I love that.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:08:26]: But Raven, I think one of the things that you brought to naspa, which was a much needed voice, was real pro tips for how to engage in leadership and what that means to do that authentically from your own perspective, your own voice. But also some real practical tips around how you are very reflexive in your own leadership journey. So I want to start with one of those most practical tips that you gave, which was about checking in with yourself every Six months. So can we start there?

Raven Jemison [00:08:52]: Sure. So this was something I learned years ago. And I want to preface this by saying in no way am I encouraging people to, when they get a job, immediately think about the next job and not do really well at what they're hired to do and excelling in their current role. The six month exercise is more about how I capture accomplishments and not duties. So what am I doing to say this past six months, what did I accomplish? How did I add value to the organization and how can I speak to that from an elevator pitch perspective? If I get a chance with the CEO, and this was early, earlier in my career that I started doing this, if I get a chance with the CEO and they don't know me and they ask me what I do, I don't want to say what I do, I want to say how I add value. So it was an exercise that I just picked up and I wanted to look back six months, but I also wanted to look forward six months to say, if I don't learn X, Y and Z in the next six months, I'm not doing myself a service, I'm not doing my team a service, I am not doing what I need to do to stretch myself. So the six month exercise kind of was born out of me wanting to ensure that my time wasn't being wasted. Thus I'm not wasting, wasting the organization's time for whom I was working with.

Raven Jemison [00:10:04]: And what comes of that? When you write down, you really think about six months backwards, six months forwards, you really start to tailor that resume to hit on your value that you add currently or the value you can add for someone else. And so that's why I wanted to preface with what I said, it's more of keeping that resume fresh every six months so you're not having to think about, oh well, what did I do at this job, now that I have to look for another job, you don't want to be caught flat footed either. So it's being able to look for another job and prepare yourself for another job is a byproduct of that six month exercise. But it's really articulating that elevator pitch and articulating that added value that that six month exercise does for me that

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:44]: really resonated with the NASPA audience. Cause I remember when you were speaking about this on stage, I could hear audibly around me, people going, oh, I should do that. It's a really good idea. And the chatter kind of began at that moment.

Raven Jemison [00:10:54]: Yeah.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:55]: And I think that was also probably one of the moments where the NASPA audience went, oh, I can clearly hear the transferable leadership application from the private sector, what we're doing on a daily basis in higher education. But that value add piece I think is an important reframe for how we think about what we do in our day to day lives at our jobs, as well as what we contribute and how we think about those contributions. So rather than thinking about tasks completed or hours spent, we're really more reflecting on how did I add value to the institution that I'm serving at the moment or to the lives of the students that we're serving.

Raven Jemison [00:11:33]: You want people to miss you if you're not there. Not just because you're a nice person and not because you're a great culture fit and all those things that you want there to be a hole and them be challenged with filling that hole because you've just done that much more for the organization and you're, I won't say irreplaceable, but hard to replace.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:50]: I think that type of advice only comes with wisdom and experience learned over time and iteration. What would present Raven say to maybe Early Career Raven about kind of teaching ourselves our own lessons as we develop as leaders?

Raven Jemison [00:12:04]: Well, the first thing I would tell Ray Early Raven is take vacations because I'm still challenged with putting a lot into my work and there's nothing wrong with that, but I value so much the contributions that I give to others in terms of my employment. But I would first tell Early Career Raven, plan vacations, set guardrails on those vacations. You will be better for it. 20 years down the road. You might be more refreshed, you might not look so tired, you might have a little bit more energy. You might be able to give even more to the organizations that you're serving because your cup is full. So that's the first thing I would tell her. The second thing is I would tell her it is going to be hard and it is going to make you better.

Raven Jemison [00:12:47]: That is what I've had the pleasure of doing for the last 20 years has been absolutely grinding. It has been very hard. I've had to move eight times. But it has all been worth it, so stick with it. And in those moments when you're feeling like, I don't know if maybe I should go back to optometry school, those moments are fleeting and there's value in the work that you're doing. And then the last thing I would say is in your steadiness, in your just holding steady with respect to staying with this career, embrace the friendships and the relationships that you build over the next 20 years. Because I can absolutely say that I am a better person, both person, professional leader, because of the people that I've had the pleasure of working with every single day in these last 20 years. So early career Raven was a little guarded, A little, you know, I'm very private, but obviously I've written a book now, so people know quite a bit about me.

Raven Jemison [00:13:39]: But I was guarded because I was told, you don't make friends in the workplace. You keep your professional life separate from your personal life. And earlier I would have embraced those relationships and friendships a little bit more. But I learned pretty quickly. Mid career Raven definitely understood that assignment.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:55]: One of the themes you talked about on stage with Amelia was about learning to set boundaries. You mentioned taking vacation as one of those things. And I think for many of us in higher education, sometimes that vacation time is staycation time where we're recharging and just making sure the email is off for a moment. But tell us more about the process of learning to set boundaries and what those look like in a reality of a job where you are literally the president of a place that is constantly running.

Raven Jemison [00:14:22]: Yeah. So the third cheat code, cheat code, pause, reflect and reinvest was born out of not setting those boundaries. And I told this story on stage, but I was gung ho in this new job I'd gotten with the Milwaukee Bucks as the number two in charge and very excited about leading that organization and doing what I could to add value to that organization. However, coming out of COVID and the sprint that was Covid and the challenges that that was, both personally and professionally, I'd hit a. I'd hit a tipping point. And this was right around the All Star Game. And I can't remember what year it was, but it was the year it was in Cleveland. I had hit a tipping point.

Raven Jemison [00:15:05]: And the All Star Game for NBA executives is a place where you network, you build relationships with your corporate partners, potentially new partners. It is a big stage and you do not want to miss it as an NBA team executive. And I have hit a point where I was going home and literally going to sleep at 8 o', clock, 7:30, I would cry for no reason. And my poor wife was just like, what is happening? And so I reached a point where I said, I have to take time for myself. And I didn't know what that was going to look like. But I had the conversation with my boss at the time who was the president of the organization, and I said, Peter, I know that the All Star Game and I know Cleveland's gonna be a big deal for us. And this is my first time in this role, but I can't go. I need, I need to use those four days to reset because I came right from the NBA League office right into this world and we're trying to win a championship and we're trying to change this business and do all those things.

Raven Jemison [00:15:57]: And I had been nonstop for at that point, probably six or seven years. I'd had taking a vacation, probably four or five years. And he said okay. And I was like, wait a minute, you just said okay? So I think part of the boundary setting is sometimes we think that the answer is going to be catastrophic to us or they're going to be like, who are you? We can find somebody else to replace you. And that might be the case, but the truth is you probably will have more support than you think. So taking the first step to ask and say this is what I need, or say this is what I need, that's the first step. And from that moment on, I went to South Haven, Michigan, a place I'd never heard, but lake in its frozen state was in the foreground. And I was in this little cottage with very little Internet.

Raven Jemison [00:16:37]: And it was the best four days to kind of reset me. And I knew that I wasn't going to be the person that took two week vacations like, and it's hard for me to do that. But I did say, here's what I can start to do to your point earlier, Jill, with the vacations and the here, let's take this moment and set a boundary. And so from that moment I started to put in practices are moments of reset, if you will. And every night, and my team knows this from 7 to 9pm that is my time with my wife. So my phone is down and if you don't catch me before 7 o', clock, then I'm going to call you back at 9 o' clock if it's that important. So that time is for me and my wife. And then I do have a do nothing day on the weekend.

Raven Jemison [00:17:23]: We play on the weekends. Usually we play on Saturday or Friday. Sometimes we play on Sundays, but Sunday is usually that day. And if I can't do the full day day, I'll do a half day. So it's really just kind of not trying to boil the ocean. I didn't go from South Haven and say I'm gonna take two weeks every six months and they're just gonna have to deal with it that's not realistic for someone like me. What it is is taking those bite sized pieces and setting those guardrails that are more that can be meaningful and impactful, but you have to be intentional.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:50]: There's some incredible advice in there for higher education professionals, particularly around setting that spatial boundary on when you're gonna be available and when you're not. Those staycations, those. I love a good do nothing day. I think a lot of us feel that in our jobs there's pressure to be in, you know, indispensable. And I think that in higher education we sometimes conflate whether or not realistic or appropriate or not our value with our indispensability rather than our value with our contributions, as you kind of mentioned earlier. And I love hearing advocacy for people to protect their peace a bit more in balance with yes, I'm working really, really hard. Yes, I'm contributing a lot. But we can't give if we haven't created space for our.

Raven Jemison [00:18:34]: That's right. And that's where the six months back, six months forward, like if you're confident in your contributions and the value you're adding that guardrail or those times away, you feel way more confident in committing to.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:45]: I want to go back to when you mentioned to your previous boss, you know, I can't go to this really, really important thing. I think that takes an incredible amount of courage in order to even bring that voice to the table in terms of saying, I realize there's a risk that I'm taking in this moment. There could be negative consequences to the job that I'm doing or to my future with. An organization can talk to us about finding that courage and making the decision to voice it rather than to swallow it.

Raven Jemison [00:19:12]: Yeah, I'd like to say that everything up to that moment was building the courage, but it was really everything to that moment broke me down that I had no other alternative. So I felt like literally, if I were going to have to be on for four days straight in Cleveland for the All Star Game, that something was going to give. And I didn't know what that meant. I didn't know if like that was going to be the end of my time in sports because I broke. I'd love to tell listeners that I had this big courage moment, but the courage came from crisis, if that makes sense. And deep down I think I did know that the value that I bring and the person that I am and the work ethic that I have that I earned that moment to have the chance to say to someone I need time away. But truthfully, it was a moment of crisis for me. It's not often that my wife April is concerned about me, but seeing the concern in her face, I was like, okay, this is something bigger than just me needing a couple days off.

Raven Jemison [00:20:12]: This is, I need to do something intentional here. So it was really crisis led to courage.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:17]: One of the cheat codes you talk about is finding and collecting advocates. It sounds like April is an incredible advocate for you on the home front.

Raven Jemison [00:20:24]: Absolutely.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:24]: Obviously in the work front, that's kind of the place where we're building unique relationships that, you know, they're not necessarily our chosen people. They're. They're people that were chosen to be around. Can you talk to us about the process that you go through in find finding your work people and creating a community of kind of emotional safety in a place that can be pretty competitive? Yeah.

Raven Jemison [00:20:46]: So advocacy in that cheat code and the way the book is constructed. Each cheat code has three chapters that kind of build to the conclusion. So the book is designed to be picked up and at any given moment. If you want to read about politics, you can read the fourth cheat code. Understand that politics isn't only for politicians. If you want to read about how I found my people, go to cheat code number two, find your people. But it's intentional in the order of cheat codes. So there's a reason why number one is know yourself to know your worth.

Raven Jemison [00:21:18]: Because if you don't have that, good luck finding advocates, good luck finding your people, because you're going to find people that don't align with you from an integrity perspective or character perspective. So the first thing I had to do was learn how to advocate for myself and be more confident in who I was bringing to the workplace. And you know, I've worked for very political organizations. I've worked where you have to find the people that matter that speak up for you. And then I've had to find people that I've built genuine relationships with because they align with me in the doors of work and out the doors of work. So the first thing I would tell anyone who is looking for advocates is understand who you are bringing into the workplace. So when it all boils down to it, what they think about you, how they interpret your work, whatever it may be, is not taken personal. You're just looking at it as this is business.

Raven Jemison [00:22:09]: So the first thing is what is it that you're doing to advocate for yourself? And that keep going back to that six month exercise when you go into a room where you're actually able to advocate for yourself. How are you saying things that mean someone else in that room who might have a little bit more power than you, goes into another room and advocates for you to say this person needs a promotion, this person needs a stretch project, whatever it may be, because this is what they're doing for the organization. And then from a find your people perspective and just people that have kind of collected along, along the way, that are amazing human beings, it all goes to who aligns with me personally. Like I'm still a very private person and I still value tight knit aligned relationships versus a bunch of relationships. So not everybody at work is your friend as you mentioned, but there can be some people who you collect along the way that can be advocates for you. And it's still happening to me to this day where people advocate for me that I haven't worked with in years, whether it's connecting me to a brand that we want to do a partnership with, or whether it's trying to find talent to. There are people that speak up for me and say this is someone you want to work with. So you gotta be intentional.

Raven Jemison [00:23:16]: And not to say everything should be calculated in how you go about your day. But I would start with and end with, you have to know yourself to know what it is that you're gonna bring to a relationship. And it needs to be mutually beneficial. It can't just be you asking this person to advocate for me in that room like that. It doesn't work that way. What are you also doing to be a resource for that person as well?

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:38]: Absolutely. And I think again, there's so many parallels between the world that you occupy and then the leaders skills that are needed to work in higher education. One of the things you've mentioned a couple times is that you're an intensely private person, but you're in a very publicly facing position. We have a number of positions like that in the student affairs world, whether it be, you know, a dean of students at a public university. We have many folks who are in a vice president for student affairs seat for whom they're on the university's cabinet, they're working with trustees. We also have folks in our profession who are literally acting as spokespeople for media on behalf of an institution, et cetera. Do you have any advice for people who are trying to balance keeping their personal core of theirselves for themselves or for their chosen family and family versus the version of the person that you need to be when you're in front of a large public environment?

Raven Jemison [00:24:24]: I don't know that I have figured that one out, honestly, because I'm sure your listeners are familiar with the term code switching.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:24:33]: Absolutely.

Raven Jemison [00:24:34]: And what it is not. But mostly what it is for those of us in marginalized populations that might have a certain stereotype associated with how they would present in a setting. As I've gotten more confident in who I am and who I bring to the table, I have tried my best to not code switch. Truthfully, what you see is what you get. A lot of the time, I think me being more confident. And back to your last question. Me being confident in what I bring to the table as a leader, as a business professional, I won't say I don't care. I care less about someone's interpretation of how they see me.

Raven Jemison [00:25:11]: That being said, I'm very well aware that when I walk into a room, how I talk at home with my wife and my family will not transform, translate well into a media interview, into a conversation. So code switching is very much a part of our existence. And I haven't figured out how to solely wipe that away, given our. The way our society works. I'll leave it there. But I would tell folks who might be struggling with that a little bit is knowing that it is there and knowing that you have to present yourself in one way or another. Find as many opportunities as you can to have a great support circle. So when you're exhausted from being you during the day, which sometimes is very much the case, that you have a support circle, who understands what it means to be exhausted from having to present yourself in one way versus what you might present yourself at.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:00]: That's very real. I've got a great support system at home where one of the things that I'm personally terrible at is feeding myself. I have a great many talent for things in life, I promise, but feeding myself is not one of them. And so I'm grateful for a support system that understands that's the one thing I can't give. And that's all.

Raven Jemison [00:26:16]: It's interesting because when I first met April, I would come home from work, or when we first moved into, I would come home from work and she'd want to talk, talk, talk, talk, talk. Hey, how's your day, Boo boo. This is what I did. And now she understands fully how I have to be on at work. And because she now sees it, and she's been around it long enough, she sees the social battery and the elevated charge on that battery, sometimes it exists. So I get 30 minutes of quiet when I walk at home to just Kind of reset, which is something back to that support system. Someone that understands truly what you're going through is going to be the best way to kind of get through some of the things that we know we can't change.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:53]: I'm a couple of nuggets that you said during your time on stage with Emelia. The first is you mentioned that you're an ambivert because you have to be.

Raven Jemison [00:27:03]: Yeah. So my ideal day are my do nothing days because I talk very little, I usually have on sweatpants, I'm hanging with my dogs and there may or may not be glasses of wine involved, very little social engagement and that is okay. Like with me this other six days, the level of on that I have to be pretty much from a anywhere from a 10 to 14 hour day is draining. But it is part of the job. I'm in hospitality, forward facing, front facing customer, facing all the things. And I definitely turn it on as an extrovert those six days introvert on that do nothing day and when I'm at home or when I'm in a social setting, very much glad that I married an extrovert because she talks all the time time and I can kind of sit in the corner and have a nice glass of wine and there's that. So yes, I am an ambivert because I have to be.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:53]: The next one is you talked about looking at a job not for what's on the job description, but what is between the lines of a job description.

Raven Jemison [00:28:02]: So there's a couple of ways I look at that. That's both me as an individual and how I approach a particular role. So I'm going to look at the job description and see how much I match it and okay, but what is it that's going to be between the lines of that job description that's not being split spoken directly and you know, it'll say other duties as assigned, but that's not it. You want to look between the lines and say, okay, if I did this, this role now becomes X for the organization and I now become X or Y in that role to add value. And then I also use that that term or use reading between the lines of job description. When I'm talking to folks who say they want to be promoted. Are you doing what's literally what's on the job description? Okay, well great, and you're doing a great job, then you're going to be in that job. If you' looking between the lines and saying here's what I'm going to do to elevate and say that maybe there's a new role that can be created or maybe there's an expanded role that can be created.

Raven Jemison [00:29:00]: Thus now I need to be promoted because I'm doing X. That is how you want to look between the lines of a job description.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:06]: I think that's really critical in student affairs. One of the things we see a lot is people who are granted promotions or are successful in applying for promotion is because they were really good at their last job and because they were stretching into that next job, but not necessarily because they were targeting that next job job. And there's a little bit of both that I think helps us get there. The next one is you talked a bit about prioritizing skill building and kind of revisiting that six month piece. There was another element about what happened in the last six months that I didn't know or need to know.

Raven Jemison [00:29:36]: There's so much and that's that, that's that looking forward from a six month perspective as well. I am in rooms sometimes with people that are brilliant, like really smart and they're saying things that I have no idea what they're they're talking about. And I always write notes to myself if they said a phrase and I didn't know what it meant. I always at the end of the day go back and look at all my meetings. Okay, was there something that someone said that I didn't know that I need to become more well versed in? And so that is that six month outlook. Okay. These are things that can be transformative to a business. If I learn more about these things, that's not, not that I need to be an expert.

Raven Jemison [00:30:13]: And that's one thing people I think are misled when they get into leadership. They think they need to be an expert in everyone's role. Thus sometimes you might be micromanaging what you don't want to be as a leader and you get stuck in the weeds and you're not up here. So I want to just make sure I distinguish between I'm not trying to be an expert in all of the fields that report to me, but I do want to know enough to be dangerous so that I can be a resource when they ask me or when they need something from me. I'm a little bit more well versed in what they might need. So there's that I listen to when I'm in meetings. If I don't know what's being spoken about, I try to study up on it and be more well versed on that. And then I am a subscriber to udemy, which is a online learning platform, and sometimes I'll just pick up a course on financial modeling, for example.

Raven Jemison [00:31:02]: It's one thing I'm looking at because I'm trying to figure out how I can be more of a resource for myself and not have to lean so much on our finance team, for example. So it's really, you got to have a hunger and you got to be curious. And it's the thing that I look to and look forward to the most when I'm interviewing candidates is what's that? Intellectual curiosity and what will they bring to the table because they're hungry to learn and I know they're going to apply it to the organization that I'm working with. So I think curiosity takes you a long way.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:28]: That advice is so transferable to student affairs, especially for folks that are supervising multiple functional areas. We have roles that, as you advance, you might have several sub departments that are reporting to you, and you probably didn't grow up in all of those departments. But you need to trust the subject matter experts around you and engage in co learning so that you can advocate for them when the time comes to whoever is above you or whoever has the purse strings or whatever that might be.

Raven Jemison [00:31:54]: Totally agree.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:55]: The last area that you gave a great nugget in was about kind of figuring out for yourself when it was time to pivot to the next move. Your career has had tremendous growth, and you said to all of us that if there's no place for me in the place that I'm in, that's how I know that it's time to go.

Raven Jemison [00:32:10]: Yeah, it can be a good thing, I think sometimes. I've loved working for every single organization that I've worked for. Literally loved. And we talked about the relationships that have been built. But there comes a point where you have to say to yourself, am I comfortable or do I want to be challenged? Those two things usually are mutually exclusive. And if you're comfortable, that's okay. That means that you're likely not going to be promoted. That means you're likely not going to get another job elsewhere, or you might get the same job elsewhere.

Raven Jemison [00:32:37]: But I always wanted to be challenged and stretched. And even at this level, I want to be challenged and stretched. And if I look out in those six months and the things I need to learn I can't learn in the organization that I'm in, then that means it's probably time for me to leave. And I've been fortunate enough to have really good Leaders, for the most part that I've had those conversations with the moment I walk into the door for a job is not to say I'm looking at the next job, but I need them to understand that I want to be challenged and I want to be stretched. So it should be no surprise when I communicate to them that I think it's time that I look at something elsewhere. Because we've been in conversation along the way, my mid year review, my end of year review, to say what I need to be stretched and you've given me feedback to say what I need to stretch myself. And if I'm meeting those marks, then that means and it's probably time for me to leave and maybe one day I'll get to a point where I'm semi retired and I'm okay with just kind of hanging out and coming to work, but I'm nowhere near that at this stage.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:34]: Raven, any final words of advice for our higher ed base listeners, especially for those who may identify similarly to you?

Raven Jemison [00:33:41]: Yeah, I will say, and I said this on stage and to Amelia as we were talking about the conversation, I am eternally grateful for NASPA professional professionals. I made one choice to talk to my who was our Administrative affairs student affairs officer for our department at Auburn University. And I had one conversation with her and I said, I don't know if I want to be an optometrist. I really want to work in sports. And she was the first person to tell me and ask me questions about what I really wanted. And without that conversation, there's no way I'd be be sitting in this seat. I'd be an optometrist. Not to say that that's a bad job, but I'd be an optometrist and maybe I'd be happy.

Raven Jemison [00:34:23]: Maybe I'd be not, I don't know, but eternally grateful for the work that you all do. Know that what you do matters. And it could really lead to someone taking a very big leap and trusting themselves that they're doing what they're supposed to do. So I just want to end by saying thank you.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:39]: Or maybe you'd be the optometrist for some sort of major league sports team.

Raven Jemison [00:34:42]: Maybe, maybe, maybe I could have found a way to integrate.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:46]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to produce Chris, to learn what's going on in the NASA world.

Speaker C [00:34:52]: Thanks, Jill. So excited to be back in the NASA world. And there's a ton of things happening in NASPA. The 2026 NASPA M. Ben Hogan Small Colleges and Universities Institute is coming up 6-21-24 at Sarah Lawrence College Hosted biannually by NASPA Small Colleges and Universities Division, the M. Ben Hogan Small Colleges Institute is a highly engaging and tailored experience designed for senior student affairs leaders shaping the future of their campuses. Over the course of the Institute, participants will dig into the most pressing challenges and opportunities facing small colleges today while exploring innovative strategies, exchanging ideas and building meaningful connections with peers who truly understand the unique context of their work. The Institute's schedule features a combination of expert led sessions focus on on the most pressing issues of 2026 and flexible community sessions that allow participants to explore real time challenges and share insights drawn from their own campus contexts.

Speaker C [00:35:53]: At its core, this Institute is built for leaders at small colleges and universities, typically defined as institutions with 5,000 students or fewer. That said, if you see yourself in this experience and believe it will support your professional growth, you are welcome to join us. The early registration deadline for this institute is May 13, with the regular registration deadline closing on June 1. You can find out more by going to events and online Learning the 2027 Pillars of the Profession nominations are open until June 8, 2026. The NASPA Foundation's Pillar of the Professions Award annually honors a distinguished class of individuals who have made significant and lasting contributions. Contributions to the student affairs Profession pillars are nominated by colleagues, supervisors and mentees and are selected by the NASPA Foundation Board of Directors. Honorees are recognized for most importantly, standing out in providing significant service to naspa, including significant leadership or involvement at the state, regional or national level, plus at least one of the other two categories that they have provided significant service to NASPA through regional and or national leadership roles within the association and they have created a lasting impact on the institution organizations at which they've worked, leaving a legacy of extraordinary service recognized by a cross section of institutional or organizational stakeholders and or that they have demonstrated sustained lifetime professional distinction in the field of student affairs and or higher higher education. I highly encourage you to consider recognizing a individual for this amazing award.

Speaker C [00:37:35]: You can go to the naspa [email protected] go under the about section to the NASPA foundation to learn more. Finally, today I wanted to put another plug and we've talked about this before for the NASPA Public Policy Hub. The Public Policy Hub consists of a compilation of policy research, coalition work and resources for from NASPA other associations, nonprofit organizations and think tanks with expertise in various areas of higher education. Based on input from staff, organizational partners and members, NASPA has curated this centralized resource to include policy trackers, articles, fact sheets, legislative summaries, and informational videos that outline state and federal legislative and policy changes for student affairs professionals. This resource is only available to current NASPA individual members, and if you have any questions about your membership status or would like to renew, please contact membershipaspa.org you can find out more at learning.naspa.org go over to the Public Policy Resource Hub and enjoy all of the amazing resources that are available right there. Every week we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways. Because the association is as strong as its members and for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the centers or the divisions of the association.

Speaker C [00:39:13]: And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself where do you fit? Where do you want to give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that, or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in naspa.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:07]: Chris, thank you so much for continuing to serve us with your excellent NASPA World segments this season. We always appreciate you keeping keeping us informed on what's going on in and around NASPA and Raven. We have reached our lightning rounds. I've got seven questions for you in about 90 seconds. We're going to turn some of them because they're very higher ed focus, but are you ready? Let's do it. All right, question one. Since you were just a conference keynote speaker, what did you choose your entrance music to be?

Raven Jemison [00:40:33]: I didn't have entrance music.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:35]: If you were to choose, what would it be?

Raven Jemison [00:40:36]: Ooh, it'd be Beyonce and Kendrick. Lamar. Frieda.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:39]: Number two. When you were five years old, what did you want to be when you grew up?

Raven Jemison [00:40:42]: A gymnast, probably.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:44]: Number three. Who's your most influential professional mentor?

Raven Jemison [00:40:46]: Pam Ehl, former CMO for the NBA

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:50]: Number four your essential professional read.

Raven Jemison [00:40:53]: Have two more the Representation the Cheat Codes to own your Seat at the Table by me and second Grit by Angela Duckworth.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:59]: Number five, the best TV show you've been binging lately.

Raven Jemison [00:41:02]: The Pit.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:02]: I've heard good things about that one. Haven't started it yet. Number six, the podcast you spent the most hours listening to in the last

Raven Jemison [00:41:07]: year, Higher Learning with Rachel Lindsay and Van Lathan.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:11]: And finally, number seven, any shout outs you'd like to personal or professional?

Raven Jemison [00:41:14]: I'd like to shout out my team at the Kansas City Current who continue to level up and make me feel like I am the luckiest person in

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:21]: the world by leading them once again. The book is more than the Cheat Codes to your own Seat at the Table by Raven Jemison. Raven, it's been such a pleasure to get to know you a little bit better. If anyone would like to reach you after the show, how can they find you?

Raven Jemison [00:41:34]: You can find me on LinkedIn at Raven Jemison or Instagramjemison.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:38]: Thank you so much for sharing your voice with us today.

Raven Jemison [00:41:40]: Thank you Jill.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:46]: This has been an episode of Essay Voices from the Field brought to you by naspa. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to be so grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email us@sa voicesaspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for Dr. Jill L. Creighton. We welcome your feedback and and your topic and guest suggestions always. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a five star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you're listening now.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:16]: It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton. That's me. Produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

In the latest season finale of "Student Affairs Voices from the Field," Dr. Jill Creighton welcomes a new leader to the NASPA community: Chelsea Peterson, NASPA's inaugural Vice President for Public Relations and Communications. This timely and inspiring conversation is not just an introduction to Chelsea Peterson's impressive background—it's a deep exploration of what makes the student affairs profession so essential in higher education today.

Dr. Jill Creighton and Chelsea Peterson delve into the ongoing evolution of student affairs, the importance of community, and the powerful impact these professionals have on students' lives. Chelsea Peterson shares her own winding professional journey: from her days as a student-athlete and college basketball coach to leading award-winning marketing teams in student affairs at WashU—and now, bringing her vision and expertise to NASPA. This theme of growth, self-discovery, and purposeful change is woven throughout the episode, reminding us all that career paths aren't always linear, and every step brings value.

A major thread in the discussion is the vital role of community that NASPA creates for student affairs professionals at every career stage. Whether you're a brand new practitioner seeking resources and support, a mid-level manager looking for ways to give back, or a seasoned leader craving connection and professional renewal, NASPA has something tailored for you. Chelsea Peterson candidly describes the ongoing work to clarify and communicate these offerings, recognizing that needs differ across entry-level, mid-tier, and senior professionals. She shares hopes for even more personalized member engagement and visibility in the near future.

You'll also hear moving stories illustrating the value of student affairs—like the first-generation student-athlete Chelsea Peterson mentored, who, against many odds, became the first in her family to graduate. These stories speak volumes about the transformational nature of the field: It's about creating spaces where every student can find support, community, and a sense of belonging.

Finally, the conversation touches on the importance of advocacy for student affairs and the ways communication (even AI!) can help cut through the "noise" on today's campuses, ensuring student support services are understood and valued.

If you're seeking an episode that spotlights inspiration, community, and practical insight—don't miss this thoughtful exchange. Tune in to gain encouragement, clarity, and ideas for how you can engage more deeply with the NASPA community!

Listen to the full episode and join the conversation on Student Affairs Voices from the Field

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:01]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts brought to you by naspa. We curate free and accessible professional development for higher education professionals wherever you happen to be. This is season 14, continuing our conversation on the value of Student Affairs. I'm Dr. Jill Creighton. Sheher hers your Essay Voices from the Field Host Hey Essay Voices listeners, it's my pleasure to bring you a new voice in naspa. Chelsea Peterson Chelsea has just joined the NASPA staff as Vice President for Public Relations and Communications and we're going to get to know her a little bit better today. She's a marketing and communications professional with over 15 years of experience in higher ed.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:45]: In this inaugural role, she'll lead strategic marketing and communications efforts, including increasing NASPA's brand awareness in public relations and membership spaces. Additionally, she will serve as a member of the Executive Leadership team, oversee the Association's Marketing and communications staff, and consult with NASPA stakeholders. She most recently served as the Director of Strategic Initiatives for the Division of Student affairs at WashU in St. Louis. Joining WashU in the summer of 2018, she built the external relations functions within the Athletic and recreation departments before joining the leadership team of Dr. Ana Gonzalez, who was WashU's vice chancellor for Student Affairs. During her time at Wash U, Chelsea's marketing and communications teams have been recognized with over 25 national awards spanning digital communications, videography and brand. Alongside Dr.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:30]: Ana Gonzalez, she established the Student affairs and Marketing Communications Office, offering services to 28 departments and over 400 employees. Additionally, she oversaw the process for the division's rebrand and website overhaul and was highly involved in writing the strategic plan for the Student affairs division. Prior to Wash U, she spent over 10 years in collegiate athletics coaching and administration. She holds an undergraduate degree in Marketing Communications from Upper Iowa University, where she was a Division 2 basketball player. She received a Master's of Business Administration degree from Anderson University and just joined us here NASPA on December 3rd of 2025. Hey essay voices listeners, we are here already with our season finale episode and it's my pleasure to bring you a new voice in naspa. Chelsea Peterson Chelsea has just joined the NASPA staff as Vice President for Public Relations and Communications and we're going to get to know her a little bit better today. She's a Marketing and communications professional with over 15 years of experience in higher ed.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:27]: In this inaugural role, she'll lead strategic marketing and communications efforts, including increasing NASPA's brand aware in public relations and membership spaces Additionally, she will serve as a member of the Executive Leadership team, oversee the Association's Marketing and Communications staff, and consult with NASPA stakeholders. She most recently served as the Director of Strategic Initiatives for the Division of Student affairs at WashU in St. Louis. Joining WashU in the summer of 2018, she built the external relations functions within the athletic and recreation departments before joining the leadership team of Dr. Ana Gonzalez, who was WashU's vice chancellor for student affairs. During her time at WashU, Chelsea's marketing and communications teams have been recognized with over 25 national awards spanning digital communications, videography and brand development. Alongside Dr. Ana Gonzalez, she established the Student affairs and Marketing Communications Office, offering services to 28 departments and over 400 employees.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:19]: Additionally, she oversaw the process for the Division's rebrand and website overhaul and was highly involved in writing the strategic plan for the Student affairs division. Prior to Wash U, she spent over 10 years in collegiate athletics coaching administration. She holds an undergraduate degree in Marketing Communications from Upper Iowa University, where she was a Division 2 basketball player. She received a Master's of Business Administration degree from Anderson University and just joined us here at NASPA on December 3rd of 2025. Chelsea, welcome to Essay Voices.

Chelsea Peterson [00:03:47]: It's great to be here with you today, Jill.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:49]: We finally got the opportunity to meet in real life this last annual conference in Kansas City. It was so lovely to make the connection. And you've been with NASPA for how long now?

Chelsea Peterson [00:03:59]: Since early December 2025 I guess. We're going up on what a whirlwind

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:04]: entry to the association to come in like right at the end of the calendar year and then jump right into the biggest event for naspa. But you've been around NASPA for a while?

Chelsea Peterson [00:04:12]: Yeah, I have been around NASPA for a while. I will touch on the first point and say that President Amelia Parnell, Amy Shopkorn and the NASPA team made my transition during the highest volume time of year for naspa Seamless. It was super enjoyable to connect with our Board of directors in D.C. in early December to meet my Marketing and Communications team with the NASPA staff. It was wonderful work together to bring all of our NASPA members who could travel to Kansas City together in person. It was a wonderful time in community. It was great to meet you and I have been around NASPA for quite a while. In 2021 I made the transition at Washington University in St.

Chelsea Peterson [00:04:49]: Louis that I'll refer to most likely as WASHU for the rest of the time anytime I mention it. When Dr. Ana Gonzalez became the Vice Chancellor for Student Affairs. In the summer of 2021, she recruited me from our Athletic and Recreation department to do what I was doing for that department for all 28 in the division of Student Affairs. And shortly after I started, actually before I officially started for Ana Gonzalez, she recorded. We did a recording for Justice Sotomayor for the NASPA membership. And that was my first introduction to naspa. Later that year, Ana ran for the Board Chair position and I've been very familiar with NASPA ever since.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:27]: Well, you're our brand new vice President for Public Relations and Communications here at naspa. This is a brand new position. It's never existed before. And one of the ways we like to use the podcast is to help members meet the staff. So we're going to be doing that today and kind of talking more about what members can expect from interacting with you and interacting with the team that you're leading. You've touched on this already, but we always love to start our episodes with how did you get to your current seat? You've touched on WASHU student affairs, athletics, but what's the journey?

Chelsea Peterson [00:05:55]: I'm happy to share the journey and hello all NASPA members who are listening. I would be remiss of me as a PR communications person not to share my thanks and gratitude and our thanks and gratitude to Jill and Chris for recording this podcast. That's great. Quality, quality. I listen to it, I tend to download it and then listen to it while I'm driving or walking. And you'll learn so much about student affairs, different perspectives of our members, and how the NASPA community really comes together for one another on behalf of our students. So if you haven't listened, I highly recommend you check it out on any of your favorite podcasts Download spaces. My journey has been incredible.

Chelsea Peterson [00:06:34]: I'm extremely grateful. That's what I'll start with. I grew up on a family farm in eastern Iowa. I am one of five and I grew up with a beautiful mother who was committed to education. And we never had conversations in our household about if college it was where we were going to go. And I never remember that being any different. We read books together in bed every night. It was the best part of my day as a childhood.

Chelsea Peterson [00:06:59]: When I think about five being five, my favorite time of the day was grabbing books and jumping into the what seemed it was only a queen bed, but it seemed massive when you're five with all my siblings and each of us got to read our favorite book before going to bed. And so education was intertwined from the very Beginning of my life. I fell in love with basketball when I went to my first practice in fifth grade. I didn't want to go, but my mom said I was shy at the time and super tall for my age. And the idea of going out and doing anything athletic on a court with a bunch of other kids who I didn't know was overwhelming. And I remember my mom taking me out underneath this beautiful tree in our front yard and saying, I just want you to try it once. If you absolutely hate it, you don't have to go back. And I said, okay, I can do that.

Chelsea Peterson [00:07:42]: Went to the practice, absolutely fell in love with basketball and basketball and really became a foundation for my life in terms of taking me to places and on journeys that I never anticipated. Fast forward. I became very good at basketball and earned a full ride scholarship to Upper Iowa University. I had a lot of opportunities coming out of high school. What I've learned later in higher education is I really didn't know the lens to go through all of those opportunities. And so really my decision to go to Upper Iowa over at the time like an Indiana university, which seems silly hearing this now, is that it was close to home as a full ride and I knew that the family that had supported me so much could actually travel to games there. It was a great opportunity for me. So I became a four year standout basketball player at Upper Iowa.

Chelsea Peterson [00:08:30]: And between my junior and senior year of college I did an internship with Indiana Sports Corporation. A shout out to my Uncle John for his connections and really mentoring young people and providing opportunities through his business career and connections. And I fell in love with athletics. From there I graduated, I did a national search, I ended up Anderson, Indiana as the assistant women's basketball coach while I finished my Master's of Business administration. I was there for three years. Then I moved to Pella, Iowa. I was an assistant coach at Central College for one year and then became the head women's basketball coach there. My life really took a transition to a different path in student affairs when I attended a conference in 2015 that was hosted by Now We Coach, which does programming for our all women's coaches in the country.

Chelsea Peterson [00:09:15]: And I was sitting in that programming and it was for women coaches across all sports and all levels. And I had this thought that hey, like I actually think after hearing this that I should feel differently about this programming specific for coaches and I'm not feeling the way that I probably should about this. I actually don't think coaching is my long term path here. And I talked to the Then executive director, who's a dear friend of mine, Marlene. And she said, yes, Chelsea, like coaching is, if you take a sewing box, coaching is you pick up a needle. It's as specific as the hole you put the thread through. Administration is the whole box. You get to see how all of these things are working together.

Chelsea Peterson [00:09:52]: And I was, it hit me, I was like, I really want to go into administration. There aren't a lot of opportunities for full time coaches to go to full time administration jobs in college athletics. So this is Assistant Associate ads, Senior Associate ads. And so I did a national search and I ended up going to Women Leaders in College Sports, which now it's Women Leaders in Sports and they are based in Kansas City, they're a nonprofit. They do all programming for women in sports globally. And during that time, one of my favorite projects was the Women Leaders podcast. And we would literally bring in D1 athletic directors, commissioners, D3 athletic directors, athletic personnel from across the country. And I typically would ask the guest, hey, could I have 20 minutes of your time either before or after the podcast? And during that time I ask a lot of questions.

Chelsea Peterson [00:10:41]: And I really found where it was that I found my professional home or what I thought would be my professional home in the college athletic landscape. And through that process, Washington University in St. Louis posted again, you'll hear a theme in my background, a first time position, the Assistant Assistant Athletic Director for External Relations. I applied for that position and I came to St. Louis in July of 2018. I was in that position overseeing revenue generation, brand development and fan engagement for four years. And in that time went from an assistant to an associate to a senior Associate Athletic Director. And then In July of 2021, Dr.

Chelsea Peterson [00:11:17]: Ana Gonzalez came into our lives full of energy and said, hey, I really would love you to do these things for the Division of Student Affairs. And I held that position from 2020, December of this year where we built a full communications office in the Division of Student affairs, providing support to the Vice chancellor's office and 28 departments. That number continues to expand. I believe it's 28 full time departments and I love my work in the Division of student affairs at WashU. Most recently my position was to work with our Chief of Staff on parent family engagement, overseeing our parent and family weekend, overseeing our events teams and doing special projects strategic initiatives for the Vice Chancellor's office. And Ana knew of this opportunity through her connections with naspa. And in October I went through the process of meeting Dr. Parnell and the NASPA team and I will say what really piqued my interest in NASPA is at this time where higher education has a lot of challenges, a lot of changes, a lot of navigating that is being required by student affairs professionals in ways that are quite different than have existed previously.

Chelsea Peterson [00:12:26]: I really was energized by this opportunity to figure out the way to maxim our resources through communication mechanisms that would best support our professionals that are on the ground doing this work with students every day.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:12:41]: I love that your journey started in a place that you thought you were going to spend your life's work and then that kind of turned to go, oh wait, my life's work actually looks different than my initial inception and now we get to have the benefit of your talents here at NASPA. So thanks Ana or Dr. G, as many of her students call her. And if you'd like to learn more about her, we did a special episode with her when she took her board chair year on. So that was about, I think, three years ago now. Great interview, great episode. Strongly encourage you to go back and listen now, Chelsea, you've taken on this beastly new position at NASPA running all of our publications and our public relations, communications, et cetera. What do you do at NASPA exactly?

Chelsea Peterson [00:13:20]: Well, thank you for the question. I'll start by saying positions feel less beastly when you have a great team of people. And I've always found that when you're surrounded by great team members and you're committed to the work and you feel that's aligned with your purpose, it doesn't feel feel so beastly. With that being said, it's been a wonderful introduction to the NASPA community in terms of lots of conversations across the association and with NASPA staff members in terms of what does it mean to best maximize our offerings for members. So what I'm currently working on is that it's a overall marketing and communication strategy for a large and complex association. What I believe makes NASPA a little different in terms of not having just one specific marketing and communication strategy, but several across our offerings, is that we have different messages in different spaces. Yes, it is about what is the value of a NASPA membership, but that answer can be different depending on where somebody is in their career journey. So are they entry level, career journey? Are they mid level? Are they senior level? Are they BPs or presidents or senior student affairs administrators? And it is really taking our offerings and packaging them into what could be valuable depending on somebody's career level.

Chelsea Peterson [00:14:37]: That is what I'm spending the most amount of time in right now as well as uplifting President Parnell's initiatives for the association. I have been so impressed with her leadership, her decision making, her focus and part of any new position. What I found is this is now my third newly created position that I've been in. And one of the early conversations is how can I best uplift the priorities and operationalize the vision of the leader of whatever that area is? And I'm beyond grateful to be doing that for President Parnell.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:10]: I'm really interested New lane mechanism for what is my career level and what am I being able to benefit from the NASPA offerings in my career level? What might that look like if I'm a new professional?

Chelsea Peterson [00:15:21]: Yeah, if you're a new professional. I think it is that, hey, we are the leading association for student affairs professionals globally. I think it is an introduction to this is what NASPA is and this is what NASPA offers. And one of the largest things that NASPA offers is a community. It's a community of student affairs professionals. It's other new entry level professionals who may be navigating the first thing the things in their career for the first time. It's here's a resource for how to navigate this. Are you working in campus life and you want to engage students? Are you interested in incorporating AI into your work? Here's a brief on this Work is a I work at a community college and I want to learn more about what it is to be in our community college space.

Chelsea Peterson [00:16:06]: And April is Community Colleges Month and tomorrow, Friday, April 24, it'll be past when this episode releases. But we have the Community College Virtual Summit which is a short one day event for NASPA members. And so there's a community to be connected to, there are specific resources that can inform your path and there are opportunities virtual and in person to engage. So I think for first year professionals this obviously long term is our colleague Monica Nixon who will lay out exactly what this looks like in terms of the transition journey. My job is really to take it and communicate it effectively and to market it effectively. But to me and in our conversations, how I how I feel for first time professionals, it is really a foundation for your career journey. And I learned that from my mentor. It's like you said, the first day of your MBA is the start of your professional journey.

Chelsea Peterson [00:16:56]: And I think a new professional being introduced to the NASPA community and the NASPA resources is the first step in their professional home.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:04]: Let's move forward to the mid level professional because one of the things that I've always noticed I'VE been around NASPA since I was an undergraduate student. I had a VPSA mentor who was like Jill, you're going as an undergrad. So that was my introduction. But I always felt that NASPA serves new professionals really well and senior level professionals really well. But that that mid level has a bit of squishiness in it partially because our partner associations or relative associations do a really good job of catering to functional areas. ASPA can be a little more general. So how are we feeding that niche middle level manager role?

Chelsea Peterson [00:17:37]: Well, I think first and foremost the mid level professionals is it's typically a time where it is maybe we've gotten to a place in our mid level journey where it's time to give back to the association so are only as Strong as the 2000 plus volunteers who make NASPAS possible, quite frankly through our whether it's volunteering for an in person event for our regional director positions for the podcast, giving of your time. And so what I would say very high level is that if somebody has advanced to their mid level space in their career, it is that time to give back. We have mentoring opportunities. You obviously give your time through the podcast, which is significant. There are opportunities to serve on knowledge communities again and regional director positions. So many different opportunities. And so first and foremost, if there's a mid level listening to this, are there ways to volunteer for NASPA that you haven't thought about before? And that is 1, 2. I think that you raise an important context to why we're really thinking about communicating this across the different career levels.

Chelsea Peterson [00:18:41]: Because the feedback you shared or the question you asked about mid level professionals is exactly why this work in terms of of communicating offerings more specifically is so important at this time for the association. I would say once we get to the fall of this year there'll be much more clarity in terms of this is the offering for mid level professionals. This is senior level. Not that all of those things will be perfectly streamlined at that point, but that we are thinking and very conscientious about. This is a membership association through the trajectory of your career journey and here are resources and conversations and engagements for you for regardless of where you are, you bring an excellent question raise an excellent question. I'm really, really excited for this work to continue internally and in the next year be shared externally for folks in our membership.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:19:29]: Personally, when I transitioned from a mid level role to a senior level role, I made the transition back to naspa. I had always been a member but I kind of had focused way more in my functional area and then when I became a more senior generalist again I went, I said this to a number of people. I have to quote unquote, graduate into naspa. And that was kind of my mindset about it. And I think, I think that's not necessarily unique in the fields. And so it's really great to hear that there's this mid level definition that's coming forward in terms of what that means. And then for the senior folks that have been around for a long time, some of our NASPA members have been coming back for multi decades. What might look different for them with this new communication style coming forward?

Chelsea Peterson [00:20:06]: I will say I appreciate the question. I'm not sure. Four and a half, five months and I can really share what would look different for them. What I have heard is that is so beneficial for senior levels and vice presidents that NASPA provides or senior your student affairs professionals is the community. It's that hey, we're in our jobs that are very demanding on our campuses, at our institutions or wherever our senior levels are coming from. And our senior leaders and getting together in person for either a VP engagement or time of networking is that time where we're reminded of the work that we do. And I think that that is so, so valuable to literally be going through our day to day and handling the emails, the phone calls, the management, the finance. Once you' that level you're overseeing a complex organization and you're wearing the hat of okay, yes, I'm advocating for student affairs and I'm also working with the college president or the provost or whatever.

Chelsea Peterson [00:21:03]: My reporting structure is to handle complex conversations across the entirety of the organization that I don't even oversee, but that I pay, I have an opportunity to lend a voice to. And so really NASPA is the community to say hey, I'm coming back. I it's so good to see you, let's have a coffee. Let me be re energized in my work. Let's come together in person or in, in virtual spaces and return energized to do this work and to continue to have to find the purpose to deal with the volume that is that our senior level administrators are navigating on a pretty consistent basis. The other thing I would say as a senior level professional or as a leader of student affairs, it's the position of communicating why being involved in a national association is important for first time professionals, for even the start of mid level professionals. So so many first time professionals may know where their professional homes can be or they may not know what their Value can be in terms of engagement. I remember starting out in my career journey and not knowing anything about where were the places in women's basketball to be connected.

Chelsea Peterson [00:22:08]: And that was taught to me through mentorship. But not everybody has that immediate mentor. And so our senior leaders can say, can be mentors to student affairs staff on their campuses and say, hey, I've been really involved with naspa. This is what it's done for my life and this is how you can be involved also. But I think first and foremost my, my friend, professor, Professor Tim Bono, he's also an associate dean. He, I guess he's transitioned from mostly his professor work to being the head of our research and analytics. And Washoe Division of Student affairs said that no question the number one indicator for positivity is in person connection with folks. However, virtual connection is certainly way better than no connection.

Chelsea Peterson [00:22:50]: And so whether our NASPA members can join us in person for events or virtually, there is still a lot of positive takeaways from having that connection together.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:00]: Absolutely. That goes for our students as well. I know my institution is currently doing an IRL initiative in real life and that has been about creating spaces where students can be intentionally phone free, where students can actually engage with each other and giving active permission in some ways to put your phone down and talk to your neighbor, which is something that we've kind of lost as a culture. Being able to promote that has been really joyful in seeing students engage with it.

Chelsea Peterson [00:23:27]: I love it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:27]: Chelsea, you're a professional communicator. You've been doing that for a good long while now. Also have a number of professional communicators in student affairs who are NASPA members and I feel like we don't really highlight them as a functional area a ton. So I'd just love to get some of your perspective on what it means to be a professional communicator in student affairs.

Chelsea Peterson [00:23:44]: To all of the professional communicators listening to this, thank you for the work that you do. To me, being a professional communicator on campuses is really about connecting with the folks who are working day to day with our students and figuring out what is the best way to communicate the resources available available to make the student experience engaging, thoughtful and really rewarding. Probably they won't look at it as rewarding in the time, all the time, but really transformational is probably a better word. We are working with students when we're on campus. We are working with students during some of the most formative years that they're going to have they are becoming young adults. They are learning how to navigate complexities in ways that they haven't before in terms of balancing academic pandemics, social life. If somebody is a athlete or they're involved in student government or their acapella groups or any of the hundreds of organizations they could choose to be involved in. They are learning how to develop all of those things at one time.

Chelsea Peterson [00:24:47]: They are getting connected to services for the first time, career services. How do I navigate my internship journey? How do I advance and have more senior level internships that are related to my research or my job placement? It doesn't have to be an internship. It could be research, could be job place. Students could be navigating their internships or their professional research placements. They could be really trying to find that friend in their first 90 days, which we know that if a student finds a friend or a community early on in their time on campuses, their retention levels are very high after that point. And so we as communicators and as marketing professionals on campuses are working with the departments who are trying to share these resources out. And I will just use WASHU as my most immediate past institution. There is so much information that's coming in, not just for young people, that's the example here, but for all of us.

Chelsea Peterson [00:25:43]: We pick up our phone, our algorithms on social media push content to us. Our emails push content to us, zoom channels or teams channels. We have become very, very online. We are an online generation for the most part. And in terms of at institutions. And so if I'm a student and I open up my email and I have 120 emails to read, how am I going to find the thing that I am most looking for and that is marketing and communications professionals. That is what we look at. We have all these resources.

Chelsea Peterson [00:26:14]: We know that we're competing in terms of across our institution, we're competing with what folks may want to put out. We can only in student affairs say we know this communication pattern, but we don't know what the other like a provost or a faculty member or an HR person or, or, or HR office might send out in a given day. And so it is really the, the art of saying how do we connect with our students? Uplift our resources in ways that are to make it through the noise and land in a way that helps them to navigate their experience. And at the end, that's the content. Like the content deliverable is how can we help you navigate the experience? Whether it's an offering of engagement through campus life or here's resource through our health services or here is how to get engaged with the career services. It really is about delivering an engagement to students that makes their experience on campus more meaningful.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:08]: Chelsea I think that leads us really nicely to our theme questions for the season and again for our listeners. Our theme is on the value of student affairs. So we've been asking the same three questions of all of our guests and our first question is when you think about the value of student affairs, what comes to mind first and why?

Chelsea Peterson [00:27:23]: When I think about the value of student affairs, I think about community of professionals who come together to share their expertise and are extremely committed to the well being and success of the students they serve. And without student affairs, that personalization that students find through their journey to me doesn't exist in quite the same way. I'll use an example from Athletics and Recreation. It's under the Division of student affairs at WashU and a student athlete is connected to a coach and is connected to a team and so they have that community. If somebody becomes a peer health ambassador, they have that community. If somebody finds their journey being a residential advisor or an assistant and they're in that community, that is, is a space for them. And so when I think about student affairs professionals and I think about the value it really is community of professionals, I, I, I'm answering this question through the lens of students and I, it is the community of professionals who are committed to making sure that the student journey is meaningful and that can exist through a variety of lenses. Because students get to choose, that's the thing, it's.

Chelsea Peterson [00:28:33]: They get to choose what to engage in across the totality of an enterprise. And that is exciting and that's amazing. And student affairs professionals are experts in the areas that they oversee. And the great thing about it is there's something for everyone and I just, I think that so valuable that if a student comes to a campus and they are open to it, there is something for everyone to be the thing that engages them and becomes something that provides meaningful connection throughout their journey.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:02]: Our second question is can you share a specific story or moment when you saw the value of student affairs come to life?

Chelsea Peterson [00:29:07]: So I'm actually going to go back a little bit in time and share a story from when I was coaching. We had a guard who was a first generation college student and really at the time that point guard, I think yeah. Point guard. A point guard or. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. We are talking about the sport of basketball. We are.

Chelsea Peterson [00:29:29]: She was specifically a point guard. There are Guard positions, two, three and, well, I guess a wing and then another guard. But I am specifically talking about a point and also, you know, public safety. Yes, we are talking about a point guard and the sport of basketball. And this student athlete in particular was the first. She was a first generation, the fly student, first generation and limited income. And she didn't know if she would graduate. And every month she would say, coach Peterson, I don't know if I can do this.

Chelsea Peterson [00:29:58]: Coach Peterson, this is hard. This is really challenging. It's hard to balance everything. In her particular case, there were folks in her community that didn't understand why she would stay in college. If they heard this is hard, it's then you can quit and move back. And every month we worked on it. And then over the course of her four years, it became, you know, once a month and then every four months. And then by the time it was her last year, it's like, I'm doing this.

Chelsea Peterson [00:30:23]: I have nine months left on campus. I'm going to graduate. Fast forward. She did graduate. She became the first in her family to graduate. And her parents. Her family, I will say her family, because I'm not entirely sure who all joined her for graduation. I don't remember that with clarity.

Chelsea Peterson [00:30:38]: I remember one. It was a really special person in her life, her grandmother. And they were so happy. They were elated to celebrate that this is the first person in their family to earn a college degree. And so what I saw during that time was just a person, a young person who went through the academic curriculum and the student affairs experience to become their first in the family to do something. And in that moment, it captured for me the power of the experience we provide and more further clarity for the purpose that we can deliver through our work.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:13]: Our final question is, what do you think student affairs needs to do to be better understood and better seen in today's educational environment?

Chelsea Peterson [00:31:20]: When I think about this question, I think about a little bit about a previous answer when we talked in the communication space about how much noise there is. There's also a lot of noise on college campuses because if you think about a cabinet or however it's set up on a respected campus, you're talking about leaders who are at the highest levels of leadership. Maybe a senior student affairs professional or a provost or the head of legal or the head of HR or whatever compromises that chancellor or president's leadership. And all of those folks are going to be in there advocating for what they think they need, right? The resources they need. And sometimes those things are in conflict with one another and sometimes they are in collaboration with one another. But when I think about what student affairs needs to be better understood, it is that space where a vice president or a senior leader can speak to the impact of what student affairs offers to students. One, I think it's education. What is student affairs? And I'm saying that specific space because when you're talking about institutions, institutional change can be the work we do.

Chelsea Peterson [00:32:26]: It absolutely is the work that folks on the ground do every day. And it all is also the senior most leader advocating for what is student affairs? How are we advocating or providing change for young people? Someone who comes up in, in their specific area or subject area. It's not that they don't want to know, it's just that you don't know what you don't know. And so it's advocating in that sense space. I think it, that is, that's my answer. It's. It's literally what is student affairs? Why is it meaningful? What experiences are we providing and being really, really specific about? Hey, here's like three things I'd like you to know about what we do and why we're important. And I think that once folks start to hear the, the impact that student affairs has on students, then it becomes meaningful.

Chelsea Peterson [00:33:13]: It really is the co curricular experience. Everything outside of academics. I just don't think that that is always understood at the of somebody's journey. And so I think the advocacy at the highest level is the answer to being better understood and better seen in today's educational environment. I also would be remiss not to go back. I won't add link to this podcast recording, but I do have a lot of thoughts for a different conversation about the role of artificial intelligence and how that can be uplifted and utilized to cut through some of the noise. I definitely think that that answer in terms of how that can be utilized and implemented definitely is a help to getting through the noise.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:58]: I would love to have that conversation with you. I'm teaching AI literacy and technology competency for master's level students in student affairs right now. Would love to have that at another show.

Chelsea Peterson [00:34:08]: This seems like a different topic, but I just want to say as a marketing and communications professional that is, I'm thinking a lot about that and everything we've talked about today, from leveraging career levels to how to advocate student affairs to be better understood in today's educational environment to everything else we've talked about that. I feel like artificial intelligence, when implemented and used the right way, can assist in every literally the content we've talked about today.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:33]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Speaker C [00:34:39]: Thanks Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world and there's a ton of things happening in naspa. The US Department of Justice has delayed compliance deadlines for digital accessibility requirements under the ADA to 2027 and 2028, while maintaining expectations that institutions meet WCAG 2.1 standards. At the same time, the US Department of Education has proposed a new Title 4 accountability framework authorized under HR1, the One Big Beautiful Bill act, that would replace prior gainful employment rules with a universal earnings based metric applied across all programs in institution types, putting programs at risk of losing direct loan eligibility if graduates fail to meet earnings thresholds. The proposal is open for public comments through May 20, 2026. The department has also continued negotiated rulemaking on accreditation, introducing provisions related to faculty qualifications, academic freedom, and intellectual diversity that have raised concerns about federal overreach and institutional autonomy. The Trauma Administration has advanced cannabis rescheduling by moving certain medical products to Schedule 3, a change that may expand research opportunities. Institutions that receive federal funding must continue to comply with the Drug Free Schools and Communities act, and you can learn more about this in the NASPA On Demand webinar on DFSCA reporting in the courts.

Speaker C [00:36:06]: Higher education associations have filed suit challenging a recent executive order tying federal contracting eligibility to DEI related certifications, arguing the policy is overly is overly broad and may restrict protected speech. As always, NASPA continues its advocacy efforts while tracking more than 1600 active bills nationwide through its Policy Hub, highlighting ongoing legislative activity affecting higher education. Earlier this season you heard about the strategic plan that came out from NASPA right after the annual conference, and in that, much of what you heard talked about member engagement and finding your place in our association. So today I wanted to talk a little bit about opportunities. Opportunities for you to be able to find that niche for yourself, find that place for yourself. Within our association, one of the first places that many people find an opportunity to make a connection is through our knowledge communities. NASPA's knowledge communities serve as small communities based on functional areas and identities that allow individuals to find their place of belonging within a large organization. These knowledge communities serve as content experts and communities of support for student affairs.

Speaker C [00:37:21]: I know personally, I initially became involved within NASPA through the New Professionals and Graduates Network. At the time before knowledge communities, we had groups that were called networks, and as those networks became knowledge communities, those knowledge Communities continued to grow and flourish and become even stronger. Personally, I started the SAPA Knowledge Community, which is student affairs partnering with Academic Affairs. And through that Knowledge Community, I found my home. I found people that were doing similar work to what I was doing. And you can find your niche, you can find your group, you can find others like yourself that are, are doing things or are passionate about things within student affairs. And it's an opportunity for you to be able to give back, but also make more connections that allows for you to be able to have people that you can turn to no matter what is happening on your own campus. You can join any of these knowledge communities easy enough.

Speaker C [00:38:17]: All you do is go to the NASPA website, log in to NASPA in the upper left hand corner and when you log in, click on mynasba. When you click on my naspa, you can then click on Engagement Portal or go into your email notifications and when you get in there, click on my NASPA Engagement under your profile. When you click on my NASPA Engagement, you'll have an opportunity to sign up for divisions, groups, journals, Knowledge communities and be able to select as many as you want. By selecting the groups, you are becoming a member of that group. You can also take the next step, which is volunteering and getting involved in a Knowledge Community leadership team. By going to the NASPA Volunteer portal, you have an opportunity to see all the different opportunities to be able to give back to the Association. Your time is the greatest gift that you can give, and we know that. And it's an opportunity for you to be able to not only give back, but also to be able to make those lasting connections with people that are passionate about the things that are similar to you and to be able to help to form not only the current vision, but the future vision of the Knowledge Community for the future.

Speaker C [00:39:30]: So I highly encourage you to go to the NASPA website, log in and check out the Knowledge Communities. You can find out about all of the Knowledge Communities under Membership plus Communities and go down to Knowledge Communities to learn more. Every week we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways. Because the association is as strong as its members and for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with the Knowledge Community, giving back within one of the centers or the divisions of the association. And ask. As you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself, where do you fit? Where do you want to give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that, or in encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association.

Speaker C [00:40:57]: Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in naspa.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:08]: Chris, thank you so much for a lovely season of NASPA Worlds. We always appreciate you keeping us informed on what's going on in and around NASPA and Chelsea. We have now reached our Lightning round where we give you seven questions to answer in about 90 seconds. Are you ready to do this?

Chelsea Peterson [00:41:24]: I am. Let's go.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:25]: All right, number one, if you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

Chelsea Peterson [00:41:30]: The original Space Jam theme song.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:32]: Spoken like a true basketball player. Love it. Number two, when you were five years old, what did you want to be when you grew up?

Chelsea Peterson [00:41:38]: The cowgirl.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:39]: Number three, who's your most influential professional mentor?

Chelsea Peterson [00:41:42]: My uncle, John Applin.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:43]: Number four, your essential student affairs read,

Chelsea Peterson [00:41:46]: Death By Meeting by Patrick Lencioni.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:48]: Number five, the best TV show you've

Chelsea Peterson [00:41:50]: been binging lately, Rooster, featuring Steve Carroll on hbo.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:54]: Number six, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year, Armchair Expert. And finally, number seven, any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional?

Chelsea Peterson [00:42:03]: Well, I would love to give a shout out to my NASPA teammates who make our work every day possible, to our members who drive this work forward and serve our students. And on a personal note, to my mom, who we lost last year, you're everything and I see so much in our daughter, Kit. I'm so grateful for my family, for my mom, for my wife who make what I do every day have purpose and meaning. I love you, Chelsea.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:29]: It's been so great to have you on the show and get to know you better, both personally and as a professional here at naspa. Looking forward to many more months and years of you leading this work at naspa. If our members would like to get a hold of you after this episode airs, how can they find you?

Chelsea Peterson [00:42:44]: Please reach out to me on LinkedIn or feel free to email me c petersonaspa.org I look forward to connecting Chelsea

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:51]: thank you so much for sharing your voice with us today.

Chelsea Peterson [00:42:53]: Thank you Jill. It was a pleasure.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:00]: This has been welcome back to an episode of Essay Voices from the Field brought to you by naspa. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to be so grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email [email protected] or find me on LinkedIn by searching for Dr. Jill L. Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions always. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a five star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you're listening now.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:30]: It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton. That's me, produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan, Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.