SA Voices From the Field

Student Affairs professionals around the world are breaking new ground, and there's never been a better time to be part of the conversation. On a recent episode of "Student Affairs Voices from the Field," host Dr. Jill Creighton welcomed four visionary leaders who are at the forefront of reshaping how we think about student affairs globally. This dynamic episode shines a spotlight on NASPA's inaugural global division publication, "Creating a Global Community," which seeks to bridge knowledge and practice across borders.

What makes this episode truly inspiring is hearing directly from the publication's curators: Omneya Badr, Dr. Jeanine Ward-Roof, Dr. Brett Perozzi, and Dr. Heidi October. Their collective experiences span continents—bringing diverse insights from South Africa, the Middle East, the United States, and beyond. Listeners learn that student affairs is not just an "add-on" in higher education; it is essential and transformative, especially when professionals share knowledge and lift each other up.

A recurring theme on the podcast is the importance of amplifying voices that are not always heard. Omneya Badr speaks passionately about the need to provide a platform for first-time authors and institutions outside the Western mainstream, emphasizing that "what you're doing is worthy of sharing." The team's vision for the publication is not only to showcase best practices but also to encourage practitioners everywhere, whatever their background or training, to contribute and see themselves as part of a truly global profession.

Another powerful message centers on adapting student affairs to the unique contexts and needs of different regions. From showcasing non-English contributions to supporting professionals who may not have formal degrees in the field, the publication (and this episode) celebrate innovation and inclusivity.

For those curious about what the future holds, the episode sets an optimistic tone. The intent isn't just knowledge sharing; it's catalytic—fostering networks, co-authorship, and a sense of belonging for professionals worldwide. Whether you're an experienced leader or just starting out, you'll find practical advice, encouragement, and an invitation to participate in the next wave of global student affairs scholarship.

If you want to be inspired by stories of resilience, collaboration, and the boundless potential of higher education, this is an episode you shouldn't miss. Tune in and discover how you, too, can be a part of this exciting global conversation.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:01]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher education professionals wherever you happen to be. This is Season 14, continuing our conversation on the value of student affairs. I'm Dr. Jill Creighton, she/her/hers, your SA Voices from the Field host. Today on SA Voices, I'm pleased to bring you 4 incredible guests who are here to talk about NASPA's newest publication that focuses on global student services all throughout the world. The 4 guests today were in charge of curating, editing, and ultimately producing NASPA's very first publication focusing on student affairs practices from around the globe. 2 of the guests we'll have on today you've met before, and 2 are brand new to the pod.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:50]: Our first returning guest is Omneya Bader. Omneya is an educator and student affairs professional who gained a culturally diverse higher education experience studying, teaching, and working in Bahrain, Qatar, Egypt, the UK, and the United States. She currently serves on NASPA's Board of Directors and is the Director of NASPA's Global Division, past Director of the MENASA Region, and in the 2021 and 2022 years she served as the MENASA Conference Chair. She held teaching and academic advising positions at the New York Institute of Technology Bahrain, Bahrain Institute of Business and Finance, Qatar University, and Trinity University. She's a frequent presenter at NASPA conferences, and her research interests are culturally based academic advising, supporting first-generation students, first-year experience, and cross-cultural communication. She holds an MBA from the University of Bath in the United Kingdom, a certificate of entrepreneurial and small business operations from the Academy of Arts in California, and a Bachelor of Arts in Management from the American University in Cairo, Egypt. She recently acquired a Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion in the Workplace certificate from the University of South Florida. As an educator, Amnea enjoys giving back to the profession and is interested in creating the professional development opportunity space for global student affairs professionals and encouraging research and sharing knowledge amongst counterparts around the world.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:03]: For our next guest, we're pleased to welcome back to the pod Dr. Jeanine Ward-Roof, who currently serves as the Vice President for Student Affairs at Ferris State University, where she joined in 2014. She has over 30 years of experience in student affairs and is currently responsible for the leadership, direction, supervision, and assessment of the Division of Student Affairs, which is inclusive of many, many student support services and departments. She's active in NODA, which is the National Orientation Directors Association and has held many positions in NASPA where she's been presenting and publishing on a myriad of topics throughout her career. At Ferris State, she's also the co-chair of the Ferris United Way campaign, serves on the President's Council, is the chair of the FSU Reentry Committee, and is a member of the Strategic Planning and Resource Committee, and serves as one of the advisors for the FSU Student Government Association. She earned her bachelor's degree in communication from Ohio University, a master in college student personnel from Bowling Green State, and a Doctor of Philosophy in Educational Leadership from Clemson. Additionally, she's received numerous awards, two of the most notable being the NODA Circle of Excellence in 2019, and in 2015, she was one of our very own NASPA Foundation's Pillar of the Profession. She spent her career working with college students and their families and can think of no better way to support student success than creating diverse and inclusive environments where students can explore their values and debate knowledge in a close community setting.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:22]: Joining us on the pod for the very first time is Dr. Heidi October, who hails from South Africa. Dr. October currently serves serves on Stellenbosch University's Student Affairs Senior Management Team as Deputy Director, Center for Student Life and Learning, and Head, Frederik van Zyl Stabbert Leadership Institute. She's responsible for the strategic leadership and research for student leadership programs for academic transcript recognition. She has extensive higher education experience spanning over 25 years and stakeholder relations benchmarking at more than 30 international universities. She's been awarded with the Vice-Chancellor's Awards for Excellence in Achievement. She has been awarded with Vice-Chancellor's Awards for Excellent Achievement as Student Leader and Leader staff member, an academic achievement award from the University of Pretoria, where she obtained her PhD in leadership studies, and has been awarded honorary membership in the International Golden Key Society for her contribution to leadership.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:12]: She has guest lectured at the Association of Commonwealth Universities Summer School, MCI Business School Innsbruck, Austria, and KU Leuven, Belgium, and regularly presents scholarly papers at international academic conferences in Europe, the United States, and Africa. She's the 2025 recipient of the prestigious Susan Comives Award for inspiring research in student leadership. Our fourth Guest today, also joining us on the pod for the very first time, is Dr. Brett Perazzi. Brett is the CEO of the Global Student Affairs Consulting Group, or GSA Consulting. He most recently served as Vice President for Student Affairs and Enrollment Management at Salt Lake Community College, which is 50,000 students across 8 campuses in Salt Lake City, Utah, USA. He previously served as Vice President for Student Affairs at Weber State University and in senior administrative roles at Arizona State and Colorado State University. He holds a PhD from Indiana University and a master's degree from the University of Arizona, both in higher education administration, with a bachelor's degree in education from the State University of New York.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:08]: Brett has served as a faculty member in higher education graduate programs at 6 universities and co-founded the Higher Education Leadership Program at Weber State University. Brett has authored more than 50 publications, including 2 books on international student affairs and services. He's been an active volunteer with NASPA for more than 2 decades, helping explore and expand global impact and support for student affairs and services. Brett is a founding member of the International Association Association of Student Affairs and Services, or IASIS, and has been invited to assist and support Student Affairs and Services colleagues worldwide. He and his partner Terry enjoy traveling, eating, and creating delicious food, and experiencing all four seasons in their mountain location with their Siberian Husky Akira. I'm so excited to bring in members of our Global Division Board today, specifically to talk about the brand new and inaugural publication for the Global Division, which we're gonna talk all about today. So we've got a couple of guests on. Our first is Amneha.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:01]: Amneha, hello.

Omneya Badr [00:06:02]: Hello.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:03]: And where are you today in the world?

Omneya Badr [00:06:05]: I'm joining from Washington, D.C.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:07]: Excellent. Our second guest is Janine.

Dr. Jeanine Ward-Roof [00:06:10]: Good morning. I'm joining you from snowy Michigan.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:12]: And for our listeners who have been with the show a while, you might recognize Amneha and Janine from their past episodes, but it's been a couple of years since we've had them on the pod. And I'm also very glad to introduce you to a brand new voice, Brett.

Dr. Brett Perozzi [00:06:23]: Hi, good morning, good afternoon, good evening, folks. Good to be here. I am calling in from Salt Lake City, Utah, in the Mountain West in the US.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:33]: And the publication that we've got today is called Creating a Global Community. And this publication is really designed by practitioners for practitioners by looking at student affairs practices that are beyond the borders of the US, because we're all over the world. And it's a really exciting time to be having this conversation. Before we dig into the publication though, we always like to start with a question. How did you get to your current seat, both in your day-to-day job, as well as if in your NASPA board position or NASPA leadership position?

Omneya Badr [00:07:02]: So I've been in higher education for a long time, and part of it was teaching, part of it student affairs. And I've been working in Egypt, in Qatar, in Bahrain, and then now in DC. So it's a matter of always student affairs, but changing institutions and changing countries. In terms of my volunteer work, I have been volunteering with NASPA for a long, long time, and it started with being part of the Middle East, North Africa, South Asia chapter of NASPA. Started as a supporting the PD, time and efforts and so on that led me to being the conference chair and then the director of the region. And then later on to this position, the global division director. Which gives me a really a great opportunity to work with great colleagues. I have a position on the board of NASPA Board of Governance, so it gives me a chance to hear what all my colleagues are saying and to work on a publication like this one.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:08:07]: And Amna is our current and outgoing chair of the global division. We've just thrived so much under her leadership. We are so excited to welcome Pilar, but also we're gonna miss you.

Dr. Jeanine Ward-Roof [00:08:17]: And so in my journey, this is Janine. I have been in higher education my whole life. I'll share a story later later if we have time about how I got here, but I came to Ferris State, where in Michigan in the United States, in 2014, and I've been serving as a Vice President for Student Affairs. Prior to that, I worked at Florida State, and I worked at Clemson University and the University of Findlay. So for the most part on the eastern side of the United States. And NASPA, I was introduced as a young professional through a mentor, and it's really become a professional home for me for decades. So I've had the opportunity to serve in roles such as this in the global division and started out working with exchanges that we were doing and then have done a variety of different things. So kind of my world opened up and so to speak from some different roles.

Dr. Jeanine Ward-Roof [00:09:04]: Also had the opportunity to serve as a regional director, which included a seat on the national board. So that was an exciting year. And then other regional roles, including a regional conference host and the secretary treasurer, and then currently now also serve on the Scott Academy board. So I really have a great time learning from others and learning what's happening in the organization. So look forward to today. As well.

Dr. Brett Perozzi [00:09:25]: That's great. Nice to be reminded of folks' pasts. But yeah, I've worked in higher ed for many years, various administrative posts. I've always called myself a higher education administrator who happens to work in student affairs. It's been a great career. I've spent the last 8 years as a vice president at 2 different institutions. With NASPA, I actually started helping with NASPA's global outreach, I guess, in 2002. We used to do master's and doctoral student exchange programs, and that's kind That's kind of how I got started, and I helped do the administrative exchanges later, and I was actually the first chair of the International Advisory Board, which eventually now is the Global Division and is appropriately placed in the organization with the kind of leadership that we need from other countries.

Dr. Brett Perozzi [00:10:12]: Anyway, things have gone pretty well, and it's really been a great experience to be able to work with so many great people like some of the folks who are here today.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:19]: And we are so thrilled that Heidi is able to join us. And Heidi, where are you joining us from today?

Dr. Jeanine Ward-Roof [00:10:25]: Hi everyone. So I'm Heidi October. I am based at Stellenbosch University in South Africa. I am the head of the Leadership Institute, the Frederik van Zyl Slabbert Leadership Institute, and do a role as Deputy Director for the Centre for Student Life and Learning.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:38]: Wonderful. And how did you get to your seat on the NASPA Global Division?

Dr. Jeanine Ward-Roof [00:10:42]: I think I have just always had an interest in the internationalization of student affairs. Started to present more at international conferences and presented also at NASPA. So I also became the institutional coordinator for our University to review organizations where our student affairs practitioners would be able to really be able to have a lot of opportunities for staff development. And I then recommended that we join NASPA. I was then approached to join the NASPA global board, and I immediately jumped in and said, I'd like to be part of the scholarship team.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:18]: And that leads us, I think, wonderfully to the question I'd love for you all to take a shot at, which is how did we decide this was the time for the global division to introduce a publication? It's been a working board, it's been a board bringing the global perspective to NASPA, but it hasn't necessarily done research practice scholarship in the same way before. So why this? Why now?

Omneya Badr [00:11:39]: So thank you, Jill, for this question. It's really, let me tell a, like a bit of a story. About 4 or 5 years ago, I met Brett for the first time at the NASPA conference, and I think it was the first time we meet, and I was telling him how around the world, all the 3 countries that I worked in, affairs is not seen as a profession. There are no degrees, no certificates, no proper formal education, and therefore people don't see it as a career. There is no research, or limited— let's not say no, but limited research and so on. There is research out there, but it's difficult to find. So I'm having this conversation with Brett. I'm thinking, do you think there is a space where we could provide, try to compile these resources, try to provide the way for people to quickly have access to these resources.

Omneya Badr [00:12:31]: Some of them are not in English, but still. And he said, definitely, I think that would be wonderful for make it easier for people and also encourage others. Fast forward to the time I find myself being the global division director-elect, and then I'm thinking, okay, let's talk Brett. So I'm talking with Brett, I'm thinking, how about a publication? NASPA already has a bunch of publications that are very different. Then, so I'm having this conversation and he's saying, definitely, yeah. And then let's form a team. Brett becomes the team lead, and then we have wonderful Janine, wonderful Heidi who are joining us. And the objective was at the beginning, and it still is, how can we encourage people from around the world who have never written an article, who have never shared what they are doing, who maybe are not thinking what they're doing is worthy of sharing.

Omneya Badr [00:13:24]: How can we support first-time authors? And at the same time, we're not looking at it as a lens of we know better, but student affairs professionals around the world could benefit from someone who has developed or applied a solution, a program in South Africa, in Egypt, in Australia, here and there. So this was the, the starting point and we're almost there.

Dr. Brett Perozzi [00:13:49]: The only thing I might add to that is in these conversations that we were having, I'm sitting there thinking, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Because I had done some research a long time ago, like 2013, I think, that indicated most student affairs practitioners around the world were doing professional development by reading. And so the more information that we could get out in publication format, the better we are to help support the profession. So I'm super excited it's coming together.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:18]: So Brett and Amna, you two were kind of the germinators of this idea, and then it evolves into having a team of four who are kind of creating this vision. So how did Janine and Heidi come on board?

Dr. Jeanine Ward-Roof [00:14:29]: So for me, it was a phone call. It was an email saying, hey, do you want to join us? And you never say no to Brett and Amna. I mean, you're like, yes, I'm there. So it was an automatic yes. And the other part too that was really exciting is I recall in my NASPA experience, I never had thought I would be outside of the United States. I thought, you know, my world was growing up in Pennsylvania, and, and so education just expanded my opportunities. And then NASPA expanded my world, and I was able to do things globally that I had not been able to do before. And so I felt like it was a great opportunity to be able to share some of that experience and some of the awareness that I gained and thought, gosh, if other people can do that too, wouldn't that be amazing? So it was an honor to be asked, and I'm thrilled to be a part of it.

Dr. Jeanine Ward-Roof [00:15:11]: I was thinking about this question in my first conversation with Omnia and Janelle when they reached out. Out to me to join the advisory board. They've asked where would I like to participate, and I immediately mentioned that I have done my research and I have noticed that there is a gap in terms of global perspectives, specifically around the work that we do in student affairs. Many of the journals are still Western-based. We have a couple of journals that are now popping up in other parts of the world, but I could also see from my own perspective and the South African lens that there are a lot of student affairs practitioners doing amazing work, but we need to share these best practices and not only in South Africa. So immediately I said yes, and I also became somehow the main driver and stalker for colleagues here in South Africa and really pushing them to submit. And so I'm really, really happy to be part of this very rewarding experience.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:16:08]: So what we've ended up now with is a monograph. And so it's not a research-based journal, it's a practice-based journal that talks about all sorts of different things, and it's structured in a few different parts. The editorial team has done an incredible job of selecting a diversity of authors. Correct me if I'm wrong on this, but I think there's almost 50, a little over 50 authors.

Omneya Badr [00:16:27]: Yeah, almost.

Dr. Jeanine Ward-Roof [00:16:27]: Yes.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:16:28]: Many of whom they're publishing for the very first time, or some folks who are like me, who I just don't have time to do mega research as a full-time practitioner, but there's a lot to talk about in terms of practice. But it's organized in a couple of different ways. Student Learning Development, Social Justice and Inclusion, Technology Advising and Supporting, and Personal and Ethical Foundations, Values and Philosophy. Governance is a section. So I want to know, how did you go about the application selection process, deciding out of the many, many submissions you received how you were going to organize and how you were going to choose what fit into this inaugural monograph that, because it's never been seen before, you really got to structure from scratch?

Dr. Brett Perozzi [00:17:11]: All of us were involved in some way. In trying to provide some sort of structure for the monograph. And it wasn't long before we settled on the NASPA ACPA competencies as a guide. And Heidi, I know, has used those extensively and helped us get organized around those. We didn't necessarily use those to screen manuscripts that came in. We fit them in afterwards and we actually asked authors, where do you think yours best fits? And they fell out naturally. We didn't have to really force any of them. So we have some pretty clean sections for 1 and 2, and then even The third encompasses two, and then the fourth does encompass a number of different competencies.

Dr. Brett Perozzi [00:17:51]: It was kind of interesting to see how they fell out, and it gives you a little bit of an idea of some of the trends also globally, given the subjects that were submitted.

Omneya Badr [00:18:01]: If you allow me, before receiving the abstracts, we had no idea what's going to happen. This is like an inaugural project. We didn't know. So we were just ready for different scenarios, but I think it's worthy to mention the effort that has been made to reach out to people around the world and to tell them about this. Because often if someone who has never written before, who has no formal student affairs education, when they see this in an email, that is an inaugural publication, when they see a LinkedIn post, they just scroll. They don't see that that's for them. So a big effort has been made. No, please.

Omneya Badr [00:18:43]: Personally, I have connections in the Manassa area and Janine has connections. Brett has connections, Heidi as well., but it's just the effort to let people know this publication, we wanna hear from you. And then once we started receiving the abstracts and then later on the manuscripts, we were so pleasantly surprised by the variety. And then comes the editing team where we support people. We don't wanna say no to anyone, but we want to ask you to do this, do that so it comes in the best format possible.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:19:15]: There's a number of authors from outside of the US, which I think is an incredible feat for this publication, the first of its kind that now NASPA has ever seen. So just scrolling through the author list, I see Brazil, I see South Africa, I see the United Kingdom, I see India, I see Egypt, I see Qatar. The list is vast and broad. There's also a fair number of American-based authors in the publication, but I know that we're also hoping that this will be something that is shared widely, not only within the US NASPA members, but that we can get it out to our colleagues around the world. I would love to know a little bit more about the writing process in terms of how authors submitted things, how they went through editing cycles with you. And I ask this because, A, I know we're A, we're hoping to do this again, and so we might have future authors listening, but also B, I think writing is super intimidating for a lot of people that have never done it before, especially who maybe haven't done that terminal degree yet. And so what are those kind of advice pieces for people who want to take their first attempt at writing and what you all are looking for?

Dr. Jeanine Ward-Roof [00:20:11]: So I'll start and just come up with really big broad strokes. So the intent, I remember the conversations that we had were really around how do we provide a format for people to share the things that they're doing on their campuses without all the intimidation of doing something that is really prescribed. So creating an environment where people can say, hey, I've got this program or this resource or this policy, and this is how we've implemented it, and it's worked well, and these are the resources or things that you might want to take. It might be scalable. It might be something that can transcend boundaries. And that was how we started in a really global sense. And then it was a lot of, okay, well, we think this will work, and then if it didn't work, we pivoted and did something else. And so there were a lot of changes along the way, and we were actually just talking before we started this about finding time if we're all going to be at NASPA to just sit for a minute and process through what should we do differently next time.

Dr. Jeanine Ward-Roof [00:21:03]: But it's been when you have really good colleagues who are willing to help others, you saw that throughout this. You saw people reaching out to others to write together. You saw people who had not written before saying, hey, can you help me with this? So it was really a very exciting process.

Dr. Jeanine Ward-Roof [00:21:17]: Jill, I think there's one thing that we should also not forget that many of the authors, English is not their first language. And so I think the writing process for all of us was also a learning curve in the way that the writing style differed from one person to the next. And I remember even internally, there were a couple of emails coming from my side to say, colleagues, is it a geographical approach the way that we even write student affairs and services? And I remember there was a lot of explanations back and forth, but I'm using that particular example because it depends on where you are based. Even a simple phrase like 'sess' could be written in different ways. And so it was really important for us right from the get-go that when we do give feedback to colleagues, that they don't feel overwhelmed by the task at hand. I remember I had two sessions with colleagues here in South Africa. First one was just explaining the, the basic introduction of what it is that we want to achieve. And then secondly, I followed up with some of them individually who really felt quite intimidated by the writing process because they I've never submitted a formal research paper.

Dr. Jeanine Ward-Roof [00:22:27]: And I said, tell your story or write your story as if you're telling or sharing with a friend what it is that you do. And so the moment they started to make that connection, it's almost like if the doors of writing started to open and people felt more free to share and less intimidated and threatened by the feedback. So it was a learning curve, not only for us as the editors, but also amongst the colleagues themselves, because we have colleagues colleagues, entry-level in student affairs and more established scholars in the field. And it was lovely to see some of the partnerships of colleagues just wanting to help one another in doing that. So, a last point I want to make is that there was also a decision we had to make around, is a particular style of writing, does it suit this publication? And so, in the end, we realized that some of it might be a better fit for a storytelling type of writing, which might not fit for this particular round of the publication, but it opened up opportunities for us just to explore what could be next or what could be different for, for, for the next edition.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:37]: We are gonna launch this publication at Annual Conference. So we're recording this in February, so we're just a couple of weeks away from Annual Conference. You'll be able to check that out as a NASPA member. So for our NASPA members who are going to read this publication, many of whom will be US-based professionals, what do you want them to take away from the publication or what might be a great mindset approach to reading it?

Omneya Badr [00:23:58]: Personally, I would say have an open mind. Try to understand the context and why this program or practice is being adopted. And with an open mind, you will learn a lot. For me, reading this publication, it's not that I'm going to adopt this on my campus. It's not necessarily that, but it's like Jeanine was saying, just open the world. You understand more about why this is happening and why is this working or not working, because we are not going to try to have the universe in international student affairs practices. So I would say have an open mind, even try to reach, reach out to authors. Finally, if you are at the NASPA conference, come and see us at the global division reception, and we'll be celebrating the publication and the authors that will be there.

Dr. Jeanine Ward-Roof [00:24:46]: I think the other thing I would add is like everything that you read and do, there's so much that proliferates our, our world right now in terms of data. And information. But the thing that I felt when I read through these is there's so many nuggets of information and things that can transfer culture. But there's also the interesting part of the cultural relevance of what the person is writing about. So it's really interesting to define what might be relevant or something that's occurring in one country is occurring in a different country, but it's a different way. They're looking at it from a different side. They're implementing it in a different way. So it was really exciting to think about how all things happen.

Dr. Jeanine Ward-Roof [00:25:26]: Happen in higher education, but depending on the country you're in, there's just a slightly different tilt. And it was just nice to be able to get the definitions and the understanding and then see all those nuggets in how we do our work.

Dr. Jeanine Ward-Roof [00:25:37]: Well, my two cents would be that I hope that when they do read this, that they really feel inspired to participate in the next edition and to never underestimate the value that everyone can really contribute to the scholarship of student affairs, wherever you are, whatever your role is, whatever seniority level you have in Student Affairs, it is important to share our work globally.

Dr. Brett Perozzi [00:26:02]: I'm excited that there are so many newer authors, Jill, as you mentioned, there are folks who have published before who are part of this, but there are a ton of new folks and it's going to be great to meet them. A number of them we know are coming to the annual conference, which will be exciting. I've seen it before. I work with a group of folks I've researched with before, and one of our specialties is how do you help people get published? And as Amnia was about the thrill when people see their name on the finished product. It's really exciting on a personal level. And at the macro level, I like looking at the trends and things too, so that people can see, oh, this is what people are writing about, or hey, we do this too. Maybe we could write about how we do this next time around. Some exciting things.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:42]: What's something that you would like future readers to know about the publication that I haven't asked you about yet?

Dr. Brett Perozzi [00:26:47]: I think to tag on my prior comment, it's accessible. Again, as Amnia mentioned, we tried to accept every submission we could, but that meant some very heavy editing. And if they could rise to the occasion of the heavy editing, it made it into the publication. So it was kind of like anybody can make it in as long as you're willing to do the work.

Omneya Badr [00:27:07]: Yeah, that's gonna be probably encouraging for the second edition. People who we have reached out to and couldn't make it, now they'll be a bit jealous and we wanna be in the second edition, but also it's accessible to people to read. So we are, we are hoping that this will go around the world, maybe will have its viral moment so that people can have access to it. And I'm really thinking that we talk a lot to our students about the importance of being a global citizen, and we deal with international students, study abroad programs, and all of that. But us as professionals, we need to also make an effort to be kind of a global citizen. I think this, I'm humbly saying, this publication is a resource resource, like my colleagues have been saying, the resource to know about what's happening around the world and not dismissing like, oh, that country or that institution, nothing important could help me. But that couldn't be farther from the truth.

Dr. Jeanine Ward-Roof [00:28:04]: I would say two things, and it's about referencing. So while this is an augural publication, it was important for us to make sure that there are standards in terms of referencing an API, APA referencing So it is important from a theoretical perspective that we do refer to theory, but there's also scope for more conceptual frameworks and the introduction of conceptual frameworks that is contextual. And so there's a big gap, I think, for all of us within the student affairs practice area that we can really explore more opportunities to collaborate and to do comparison studies. So I think this really lays the foundation for future research and co-authoring partnerships for future publications. And it would be wonderful in the next edition to see two authors from different regions working together and participating in unpacking a new conceptual framework. So I'm really excited about that foresight for the scholarship section.

Dr. Jeanine Ward-Roof [00:29:06]: And I'll just say one piece is, just as Heidi mentioned, it is a really good publication that looks at theory. It does— theory is throughout it, but it really focuses on the practice. It focuses on what people are doing on their campuses. So it is just a really good publication to think through how you might do this in a different country, how you might define this term in a different country so that as you're sitting in your seat, you can look across the world and say, how is this happening in other places? And the other piece is I think it also gives people the opportunity to learn from a different lens. So it really is a way to understand a different viewpoint just in a brief article.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:44]: And once again, the monograph is called Creating a Global Community, and it'll be launched at NASPA's annual 2026 conference in Kansas City. I'm going to move us into our theme questions for the season, and these These are the questions that we've been asking every single guest we have on. Knowing that there's a lot of you, we're just going to make sure that we try to get through all of them as timely as we can, but also there's a lot to say on these. So just trying to balance all of that, but we've got the first question, which is, when you think about the value of student affairs, what comes to mind first and why?

Dr. Jeanine Ward-Roof [00:30:13]: So I'll share this. I appreciate the opportunity to think about the question for a minute. So thank you for giving them to us before, but our role in student success is what comes to mind the very first thing in student Affairs. Everything that we do supports the success of students, their access to education, the development of their engagement, their community, their belonging. And as I like to share with our parents at orientation and have done throughout my career is the student's journey in their adulthood internship. I mean, they're really learning how to practice and to skill build and to hone the things that they're going to be doing throughout their life. And we get to be a part of that. We get to walk alongside of them when they invite us and help them to think through what's what's the next step? So it's exciting.

Dr. Jeanine Ward-Roof [00:30:52]: It's a wonderful field and it's a wonderful way in our world to make the world a better place.

Dr. Brett Perozzi [00:30:57]: It really is a super altruistic and exciting way to look at our work. I might have to check myself a little bit because I have a slightly different perspective on it, just because recently I was turned away from a higher education journal because we submitted a piece on student affairs and services. And the statement was, sorry, we only publish things that are higher education related. I thought, whoa. So yeah, this was, it was an international journal in higher education. And as Heidi and some others mentioned, we're just not understood globally. And so my colleagues and I got a kind of a good chuckle out of that, but a lot of wasted time too. But anyway, I just wanted to share that quick anecdote.

Omneya Badr [00:31:39]: Not surprised. I come from a world and worked in countries where certainly student affairs is seen as like a side thing that could easily be removed because students are there to go to classes. And success is about the grades and the certificate. So I, I understand that, but it does hurt because I see student affairs professionals as educators and we are part of the journey. And I value some institutions who have introduced like a second transcript for the student where they can list the different skills and activities and so on. That is part of showing the value to the student and also to our own institution. So the value of student affairs, we have to promote it within our own institution before promoting it to students and parents. And I would say we have to be self-innovative because our student population and demographics change, and not all institutions have 18, 19-year-olds.

Omneya Badr [00:32:36]: So we have to be adaptive. And the last thing is never to forget proof, data. That is where the institution is going to understand that there is a difference being made, and then you're— we hopefully, we're going to get the credit that we deserves.

Dr. Jeanine Ward-Roof [00:32:50]: Well, I'd like to add from a perspective of the transformative student experience. So at Stellenbosch University, we refer to student affairs being at the heart of the transformative student experience. And I'd like to add that it's also part of the transformative staff experience. And so if you take student life in general, it really, it's an extension of the academic project. And so we've worked really, really hard intentionally to partner with the academic project exactly for that reason, Omnia, to have our work on the academic transcript and to show that there's academic rigor in the work that we do from student leadership work and student leadership programs where I am particularly involved in, that there is real academic rigor in the work that we do. When we speak about student success, there is student development principles, there's theory behind the approaches in student affairs. Across, whether it is health and wellbeing, it is the recreational sport aspect of it, where we talk about the sense of belonging, inclusion, et cetera, and taking it all the way back into how do we then equip our students to leave as graduates with certain attributes and then to transcend into the world of work where we can see the real value of having an enriched student life. And student affairs is really at the heart of that.

Dr. Jeanine Ward-Roof [00:34:13]: And so I actually had a conversation within this week with Some professors in academia visited us from other countries, and I had to do a presentation on the importance, the significance of having an enriched student life. And the end of my presentation, I said, well, we all know that there wouldn't be universities if there were no students. There wouldn't be universities without the academic project. So it's really a case of the universities in itself would become irrelevant if there's no service to society and the relevance of what we are gaining collectively in terms of knowledge, skills, competencies and where do we fit the student affairs practitioners? And it's basically horizontal. So it's, it's a lot of cross-cutting factors within the ecosystem of higher education that you cannot deny the value of it unless you really think in terms of either/or. And I'm hoping that in the year 2026, we have moved way beyond the either/or approach in higher ed.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:15]: Our second question, can you share a specific story or moment when you saw the value of student affairs come to life?

Dr. Jeanine Ward-Roof [00:35:21]: So as a first-generation student in higher education, I now know my experience was fairly typical, but I didn't know the path I was supposed to take or what I was supposed to do. And so I was very fortunate to have a lot of people guide me. So I was an RA and I was an orientation leader. I was on the yearbook staff and student organizations and a sorority, involved in student alumni groups and all of that. But I didn't understand the construct behind all those opportunities, all of that engagement. So prior to my senior year, I always thought I wanted to be a journalist. I'm dating myself. I was going to be Barbara Walters.

Dr. Jeanine Ward-Roof [00:35:51]: That was my, my goal. But after an internship, I realized that that's not what I wanted to do anymore. So I went back to school for my senior year and I talked to all of those people in my life that I now know are student affairs people, my hall director, my director of residence life, the student activities director, the dean of students, my advisor. And I was introduced to this field called student affairs. And the awareness I gained, I would liken to the first day of spring after a long winter. It was filled with opportunities that had always been there. They were always there under the snow, but I was seeing them differently. Intentionally for the first time.

Dr. Jeanine Ward-Roof [00:36:25]: And so as I pursued my master's and studied in higher education, I had the opportunity to study with these amazing people like Dr. Sattelmeyer and Dr. Strange and Dr. Renz and Dr. Coombs at Bowling Green State in Ohio. And I learned how we could intentionally orchestrate moments for students to learn and to grow and to discern their values and to practice the art of communications and to make mistakes with cushion, but also explore their careers and who wanted to be and who they wanted to be. So I was hooked. And since that time, I am honored to have been invited in so many students' journeys and to help them where they needed to celebrate with excitement, to craft their opportunities, to wade through difficult situations, to listen, and to cheer them on as they negotiated their adulthood internship.

Dr. Jeanine Ward-Roof [00:37:08]: So student affairs just kind of blossomed, and it's— I can't think of anything else to do. I couldn't think of any other career.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:14]: I really like this framing of the university environment as internship for adulthood. I've never heard that phrasing before. I'm going to, I'm going to hang on to that one.

Dr. Jeanine Ward-Roof [00:37:22]: Please do.

Omneya Badr [00:37:23]: Fun. So I'm gonna share a story about a student while I was working as academic advisor. One of my probation students who was like semester after semester, like there's no progress in terms of grades or engagement on campus. And then one day comes to my office and says, did you check my midterm grades? And then I'm looking like, oh my God, how did you, do you have these Bs and B pluses? Like what's happening? And then he adds, and I'm running for the student government as well. Long conversation with the student. I told him like, you need to sit down. I I need to know what's happening. So I don't have time to tell the whole story, but basically what he said, all of a sudden, all these conversations I had with you as my academic advisor, and I had with the counselor, and I had with the career advisor, all of a sudden, it just like a puzzle that fitted.

Omneya Badr [00:38:14]: And it just dawned to me like, I have to do something. It's my career. I have to take these steps. So I'm glad, this is what he said, I'm glad that you never never stopped calling and emailing and sending these tips and remind me of the resources. So to me, this is a story of graduated with a 3-point-something GPA and doing very well. So this is something that I always remember that we don't give up, we just go on and remind students and talk to students because story like that could happen again and again.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:45]: Heidi, how about you? Can you share a specific story or moment when you saw the value of student affairs come to life?

Dr. Jeanine Ward-Roof [00:38:50]: At the moment, it's my 25th year in higher education, and I was very lucky to have worked in different areas within higher education. So prior to joining student affairs, I worked for about a couple of years as the manager for alumni relations, and I traveled extensively to the top 10 countries where most of our alumni resided outside of South Africa. And at all of these events, I came back and it was very clear to me that our alumni alumni have done degrees at different universities, so not necessarily at the same university, but what really makes them loyal towards Stellenbosch University is the reminiscing way that they were talking about the student life back when they were students. And they could tell stories about staff members who assisted them in residence life from a commuter student perspective, how staff members in student affairs made them aware of all of the opportunities to really immerse themselves in the student life or colleagues who assisted them through mental health challenges. And so when I reflected on the question, it made me realize that if it was not for those colleagues who really walked the extra mile to support the students during times when they felt incredibly vulnerable in achieving their goals, they probably never would've participated in alumni events or coming back for homecoming reunions because there would've been no sense of belonging that was created for them and a smooth transitioning from student life into graduates and then into the alumni, and then again completing the circle by paying it forward and also then encouraging their own children to come back to the same university because of that rich student life experience that they have experienced. So I can't think of a better story to share than those particular examples, and I am just incredibly grateful that I can also be a small play a little part in creating that just feeling of belonging for our students.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:52]: Our third question in our theme is, what do you think that student affairs needs to be doing to be better understood or better seen in today's educational environment?

Dr. Jeanine Ward-Roof [00:41:03]: So I think we need to remember to boldly tell our story, to illuminate our student experiences, to provide opportunities for them to share their experiences in their own ways. And then help people remember that it's about the students. This is all about the students. And we have vast amounts of data that we can use to illustrate all those awesome positive effects around engagement, belonging, community, and just the awareness and all of those things. If we do that, if we keep telling that story, we're gonna show nothing but student success and nothing except the ways that student affairs help to augment that.

Dr. Jeanine Ward-Roof [00:41:38]: From my side, I would say get rid of limiting beliefs, get rid get rid of the feeling that we are less than in an academic space. The moment we are more intentional with the work that we do and showing the relevance of that with clear data, just to add on to what Janine said, it becomes undeniable that the work adds value. So less anecdotal examples, being clear-cut with our case studies that we share. And also another piece of advice that I'd like to share is that I have been sharing with colleagues in own space, go to the academic conferences, submit your abstracts, go and present your work at specifically the disciplines, but the academic type of scholarship conferences. And the other part also is join or create partnerships with our learning and teaching colleagues in Academic Affairs. There are many overlaps in the work that we do from a student success perspective. And I think the more collaborative we become and the less competitive for retention or trying to get more space in the playfield, field, the more relevant we become because then you are making yourself undeniably relevant to the needs of not only the organization or the institution, but also to the student and broader university community.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:58]: And Amna, how about you? What do you think that student affairs needs to be doing to be better seen and better understood in today's educational environment?

Omneya Badr [00:43:05]: I think we need to partner with academic affairs and raise awareness among ourselves within the institution about the value of the work we are doing. I have worked institutions, and I'm currently working in an institution where we have non-traditional students, and those have different needs. So we need to be innovating and moving with trends. So the value of student affairs is going to be seen with proof that we provide, with raising awareness among other departments of the value of what we're doing, partnering with academic affairs. So we are in the classroom and outside the classroom, and we show that what we're doing makes a difference as as well as changing our tactics. Engagement doesn't have to mean the same thing. An older student needs different things. A student who is studying online needs different things.

Omneya Badr [00:43:55]: A student parent, a student who has a full-time job, and so on. So we have to be innovative and change. And cooperating with also the industry is always has been, but it's much more important now.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:44:07]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the Naspa World.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:44:13]: Thanks, Jill. So excited to be back in the Naspa World, and there's a ton of things happening in Naspa. Really excited that the Naspa Annual Conference is coming up March 7th through the 11th in Kansas City, Missouri. Soon we're going to be coming together in Kansas City, and I hope you're going to be planning to join us and the thousands of other professionals traveling to Kansas City from all over the world. The event is going to be an amazing event, and there are going to be a ton of ways for you to be able to engage with others. And if you are a first-time attendee, make sure that you check out a few of the different first-time attendee sessions. There is a first-time attendee orientation webinar that is available. There are some sessions right at the conference that you can go through, and with the new online app You can search for programs that align with being a first-time attendee or other programs that you just have an interest in.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:45:12]: I do encourage you to explore the conference app that is available now. And through that app, you can set up your own schedule and allow for you to be able to find all the type of programming that you want to attend, whether you are a first-time attendee or a person that has been attending for many, many years. I've said this before, but Jill and I will be at the conference. And as always, we are going to be asking some questions of people at the conference. And I want to be able to offer all of you the opportunity to be able to answer these questions so that your voice can be a part of some upcoming episodes. The 3 questions are as follows. If you could rebuild the student affairs from scratch, what's one change that you would make to impact student success? The second question, how can student affairs use data and tech to better serve the profession? And third, what does a successful flexible work environment look like in student affairs today and in the future? There's a couple of ways that you can send us your recording. The easiest way is to record yourself answering those questions right on your phone, get an audio file, and email us the audio file.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:46:33]: At [email protected]. You could also record a file and upload it and email us the link. That's another easy way to do it. But all in all, we would love to include your voice as a part of this, even if you can't attend the annual conference. If you are attending the annual conference, please look for Jill or I because we would love to capture your voice. And if we ask you, don't find it weird. We're going to have our recorders and we're going to be asking people to be able to answer questions for us. Another event that's happening on May 8th, 2026 is the NASPA 2026— is the 2026 NASPA Civic Discourse Virtual Summit.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:47:12]: As colleges and universities work to support student learning and engagement amid an evolving landscape around free speech, academic freedom, and political expression, the need for thoughtful, principled approaches to civic discourse has never been greater. The 2026 Civic Discourse on Campus Virtual Summit. The 2026 Civic Discourse on Campus Virtual Summit brings together higher education leaders, student affairs professionals, student affairs professionals, and dialogue practitioners to explore the evolving landscape and share evidence-informed strategies for cultivating healthy campus climates. Inside of this virtual summit, there are 9 different areas that will be covered, and I highly encourage you to check out all of the different areas and consider joining for this inaugural summit. You can find out more on the NASPA online learning community at learning.naspa.org. Another event that is coming up is the NASPA Sexual Violence Prevention and Response Virtual Summit. The 2026 NASPA Sexual Violence Prevention and Response Summit will provide you with the opportunity to be able to, to gain knowledge, tools, and strategies needed to drive meaningful Change: Meaningful Campuswide Change in Sexual Violence Prevention and Response. This summit features expert-led sessions and evidence-based practices.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:48:38]: The summit will equip you to advance holistic approaches that center prevention, elevate survivor support, strengthen equitable services for respondents, and embed equity, safety, and wellbeing into the fabric of campus life. This summit is happening in May 2026, and you can find out more also on the NASPA Online Learning Community website at learning.naspa.org. What if the very thing that makes student affairs professionals so effective—their empathy, their care, their deep commitment to students—is also what's putting them at risk? In a brand new featured research article entitled "Caring for the Caregivers: Identifying and Addressing Compassion Fatigue in Student Affairs" by Alexa Wesley Chamberlain. The article takes a hard look at compassion fatigue in student affairs, often described as the cost of caring. In a time when professionals are repeatedly supporting students through trauma, crisis, and uncertainty, the emotional toll is real. Anxiety, exhaustion, isolation, and burnout aren't just individual struggles; they're systemic challenges. They're systemic challenges, and the article makes a compelling case that self-care aware alone isn't enough. What makes this piece especially important is that it moves beyond awareness to action.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:49:58]: Drawing on research and national data, it outlines 5 concrete organizational-level strategies institutions can implement, from strengthening mentorship and structured debriefing to expanding mental health access for staff to being more transparent about emotional labor in recruitment. It also highlights how belonging and feeling valued matter even more than pay when it comes to retention. If you care about staff wellbeing, student success, leadership culture, or retention in higher education, this is a must-read. It challenges us to rethink what a true culture of care looks like, not just for students, but for the professionals who serve them every day. You can find this article on the NASPA website in the NASPA blog. Every week we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with the knowledge community, giving back within one of the, the centers or the divisions of the association.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:51:15]: And as As you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself, where do you fit? Where do you want to give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:52:09]: Chris, thank you so much as always for giving us another great informative episode of NASPA World. We always appreciate you keeping us informed on what's going on in and around NASPA. And now we have reached our lightning round where we have 7 questions for you to answer in about 90 seconds. Now, because Amnea and Janine have been here before, they have a different set of lightning round questions than Brett and Heidi. So we're going to start with Brett and Heidi. So I'm going to ask you question 1, Brett, you're going to answer, then Heidi, you're going to answer, and then we'll go to question 2, etc. Are Ready to go? Okay. Yes.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:52:39]: All right. Question 1, if you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

Dr. Brett Perozzi [00:52:44]: Happy.

Dr. Jeanine Ward-Roof [00:52:44]: You know the song, I'm not singing it. My colleagues and my students would say I Will Survive, Gloria Gaynor.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:52:52]: Number 2, when you were 5 years old, what did you want to be when you grew up?

Dr. Brett Perozzi [00:52:55]: Wow. I've thought about that and I actually don't know. I've thought about what did I want to be when I grew up and I didn't know until I got way past 5 years old.

Dr. Jeanine Ward-Roof [00:53:05]: Doctor.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:53:05]: That was my ultimate goal.

Dr. Brett Perozzi [00:53:07]: Number 3, who's your most influential professional mentor? George Kuh was my advisor in my PhD program, and he is a super impressive, knowledgeable person who has helped me and mentored me throughout my career.

Dr. Jeanine Ward-Roof [00:53:20]: I would have to give credit to my PhD supervisor, who is also a director of a leadership institute at the University of Pretoria, Professor Derek de Jong.

Dr. Brett Perozzi [00:53:28]: Number 4, your essential student affairs read. The book that I just started reading is amazing, The Caring at university that I can't even—

Dr. Jeanine Ward-Roof [00:53:37]: so let me just leave it at that. Without a doubt, Susan Comey, there's John Dugan and Al, all of them around the social change model.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:53:45]: I thrive on their work and I applied a lot.

Dr. Brett Perozzi [00:53:48]: Number 5, the best TV show you've been binging lately? Old episodes of The West Wing. I love it.

Dr. Jeanine Ward-Roof [00:53:54]: To reference an Afrikaans one in South Africa called Skimmer Grounder.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:53:59]: Number 6, the podcast you spent the most hours listening to the last year?

Dr. Brett Perozzi [00:54:02]: It's called Bigger Pockets. It's a real estate podcast with all manner of information about different types of real estate.

Dr. Jeanine Ward-Roof [00:54:10]: I have to say the AVZ is Unplugged on Spotify with a lot of interviews with newly appointed vice chancellors in South Africa.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:54:20]: Thank you so much, Brett and Heidi. You have survived our lightning round. It's now time to bring back Amneha and Janine for their lightning round questions. We have a different set of questions for second time guests. So here we go. Question number 1: the last time you were here, you got to talk about your entrance music, and I want to ask you, do you want to keep your original entrance music song, or if you could change it, what would it be?

Dr. Jeanine Ward-Roof [00:54:42]: So to be honest, I don't remember what I said last time, so I don't know if I want to keep it. But I was thinking about that when they answered it, and I said, gosh, nowadays I'm not sure what it is, but I still think I'd want to do something dramatic like Over the Rainbow or something like that. Was just like all about dreams and wishes and Nope. I'll trust myself.

Omneya Badr [00:54:59]: I don't remember as well, but I would say yes, keep it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:55:03]: I didn't go back and listen. I'll do that. Number 2, what was your undergraduate degree in and do you use it in your work now?

Dr. Jeanine Ward-Roof [00:55:09]: So my undergraduate degree was communication and I use it every day, every single day.

Omneya Badr [00:55:14]: My undergrad was in business administration. That was called back then, moved to being called management, and I certainly use it every day, managing up, managing down, Everything.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:55:26]: Number 3, your guilty pleasure TV show binge.

Dr. Jeanine Ward-Roof [00:55:28]: I have a couple, but the favorite one right now is an older episode set of series about a family called The Middle.

Omneya Badr [00:55:36]: It just is dysfunctionally humorous. I recently watched Abbott Elementary and I find it very nice.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:55:43]: Number 4, if someone ever visits your city, what's the one place they have to eat?

Dr. Jeanine Ward-Roof [00:55:47]: So in Big Rapids, it's a small town in Michigan. There are several fun restaurants, but the one I would suggest is a little place called Crankers, which is this brew pub. That has a lot of different food, but if you love breakfast, it is the place to go.

Omneya Badr [00:56:02]: So there is a place by the waterfront. I'm forgetting the name, but a very nice place for brunch, Georgetown Waterfront. It's hard to miss.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:56:10]: That's where you need to go. Number 5, what's your favorite work-related podcast?

Dr. Jeanine Ward-Roof [00:56:14]: I have to admit, I don't have a favorite one. I listen to a lot of them, but I've kind of still been in the groupings of Audibles, like finding books and spending a little more time delving into topics. So I don't really have a favorite one.

Omneya Badr [00:56:26]: I just have lots that I listen to? Not because it's you, Jill, but I do listen to your podcast all the time, as well as Adventures in Academic Advising.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:56:35]: That one I like very much. It's NASA's podcast, but I appreciate the privilege of hosting. Number 6, your favorite not work-related podcast.

Dr. Jeanine Ward-Roof [00:56:42]: And I don't have a favorite one, but I tend to look at just of things, topics that I don't normally do within a day. So gardening or something about the stock market or something that's gonna give me some knowledge or something that I don't have to think about in my daily work?

Omneya Badr [00:56:55]: Yeah, I don't have a favorite one. It's more like would be music and try to listen to music from back home.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:57:03]: And finally, number 7, any shoutouts you'd like to give, personal or professional?

Dr. Jeanine Ward-Roof [00:57:06]: There's so many. You know, it's funny because I just celebrated a birthday, so, you know, and you always get these great wishes from people. And as I wrote to my colleagues and said, thank you so much, I really just want to say to all of the people who helped me get to the seat I'm in, thank you, because I am just so honored to have had all that help and that guidance. And I could give you hundreds of names, but I will do that personally as I continue to see them just to say thanks.

Omneya Badr [00:57:29]: I would like to thank the group of wonderful people on the Global Division Board and specifically the smaller team on the Publication Board because we are all volunteers. And to put all that effort to have this, it's really a dream come true for me. So I think everyone on the board very much.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:57:51]: It's been such a joy to have all 4 of you on the podcast today. I'm sure people will want to connect with you about the publication or Global Division after this. How can people find you?

Dr. Jeanine Ward-Roof [00:58:04]: So the best way to connect with me would be email, and so that would be using my name. So it's Januar, J-E-A-N-I-A-R, D-R-O-O-F at Ferris.

Omneya Badr [00:58:18]: The easiest way to find me is on LinkedIn, exactly like my name, O-M-N-E-Y-A-B-A-D-R, uh, and I check it every day.

Dr. Jeanine Ward-Roof [00:58:29]: Definitely LinkedIn, Heidi October, H-E-I-D-I-O-C-T-O-B-E-R, or my email address, [email protected].

Dr. Brett Perozzi [00:58:39]: One of the best ways to reach me is through my profile on LinkedIn. My last name is sometimes hard. Brett, first name. And I'm also at [email protected].

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:58:52]: I just learned I've been saying your name wrong for years.

Dr. Brett Perozzi [00:58:56]: Sorry. No, it's totally fine. I wish I had gone by Perozzi for years, but it's too late.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:59:02]: I'll correct that. I'm so sorry, Brett. I've been literally introducing you as Brett Perozzi for like— It's fine.

Dr. Brett Perozzi [00:59:07]: 5 years.

Omneya Badr [00:59:08]: Yeah, it's okay.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:59:09]: Thank you so very much for sharing your voice with us today. Thank you. Thank you.

Omneya Badr [00:59:13]: Thank you for having us.

Dr. Jeanine Ward-Roof [00:59:14]: Thank you for having us. Agreed.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:59:21]: Thank you. This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field, brought to you by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to be so grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email us at [email protected] or or find me on LinkedIn by searching for Dr. Jill L. Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions always.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:59:43]: We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton. That's me. Produced and and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan-Flint for your support as we create this project.

Dr. Jill Creighton [01:00:10]: Catch you next time.

What does it take to inspire the next generation of student affairs professionals? In the latest episode of "Student Affairs Voices from the Field," host Dr. Jill Creighton sits down with a dynamic team—Dr. Brooke Paradise, Sohan Daniel, and Anthony Froelich—who are shaping NASPA's Undergraduate Student Conference (USC). If you're passionate about developing young leaders, building inclusive communities, or just curious about meaningful ways to support undergraduates, this episode is for you.

A Unique Space for Aspiring Leaders

Breaking the mold of traditional conferences, the Undergraduate Student Conference is crafted not just for those considering student affairs as a career, but for any undergraduate eager to build leadership and transferable skills. Attendees come from diverse backgrounds and majors, from "diehard student affairs" hopefuls to business majors looking to expand their horizons. The common thread? A genuine curiosity about leadership and life after graduation.

Mentorship and Networking in Action

What makes the USC experience stand out is its intentional focus on mentorship and reflective engagement. As Dr. Brooke Paradise shares, the conference blends mainstay features—keynote speakers, concurrent sessions—with hands-on, small group breakouts led by graduate students and professionals. These mentor-led groups offer undergrads a supportive, approachable space to ask questions, reflect, and make lasting connections—a practice that Sohan Daniel credits with propelling his own career journey from attendee to committee leader.

Accessible Professional Development

The panel highlights the accessibility of the conference and its value for both undergraduates and professionals. Faculty and staff can support students in attending—whether by navigating travel logistics or encouraging independent growth. As Anthony Froelich notes, volunteering as a small group facilitator is an "easy entry point" for professionals looking to give back to the field.

The Bigger Picture: The Value of Student Affairs

From powerful personal stories about overcoming first-generation struggles to reflections on how mentorship and community can be a "life vest" for students, the episode underscores the broader impact of student affairs. It's about creating space, fostering belonging, and ensuring every student feels seen.

Ready to be inspired and learn how you can make a difference? Tune in to this episode and discover why the Undergraduate Student Conference is a launching pad for tomorrow's change-makers—and maybe even get involved yourself!

Catch the full episode wherever you get your podcasts—don't miss out on these fresh perspectives shaping the future of higher education!

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:01]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher education professionals wherever you happen to be. This is Season 14, continuing our conversation on the value of student affairs. I'm Dr. Jill Creighton, she/her/hers, your SA Voices from the Field host. Today on SA Voices, we're bringing you 3 guests who are currently planning the undergraduate student conference for 2026. Our first guest is Dr. Brooke Paradise, they/them, who is the Associate Dean of Student Affairs for Inclusion and Engagement at Skidmore College, where they provide strategic oversight for campus life and engagement and supervise functional areas including leadership activities, religious and spiritual life, and student diversity and equity.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:49]: With 15+ years of experience across higher education, Brooke is known for building student-centered systems that strengthen belonging, equity, and student success including developing a comprehensive residential curriculum from the ground up and facilitating a learning community that bridges faculty and staff partnerships. Brooke's scholarship and professional practice center neurodivergence and inclusion in the workspace, translating research into actionable strategies that support cognitive diversity and sustainable culture change. They regularly deliver national trainings and presentations, including a NASPA national conference session on the lived experiences of neurodivergent student affairs professionals and inclusive workplace practices, as well as professional leadership development programming. Brooke has also facilitated DEI trainings for the NCAA Division I student athletes and coaching staff and led DEI-focused training for resident advisors. In addition, they serve in the National Association leadership roles with NASPA, including positions supporting assessment, learning outcomes, and undergraduate pipeline development. Our second guest is Sohan Daniel, who is a coordinator at the University of Tennessee, Knoxville, or UTK, in the Office of Student Conduct and Community Standards, where he supports students through accountability-centered practices that emphasize learning, growth, and personal development. Prior to joining UTK, Sohan completed his master's degree at the Ohio State University, where he was introduced to student conduct work while serving as an assistant hall director. Through this experience, he developed a strong belief in accountability as a powerful tool for student learning and transformation, and he values the opportunity to help students navigate challenges while building skills for both personal and academic success.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:18]: In addition to his role as coordinator, Sohan serves as the chair-elect for NASPA's Undergraduate Student Conference, or USC. He pursued this opportunity after witnessing the impact USC can have on launching attendees' careers in student affairs. Sohan earned his Bachelor of Science in Sport in Exercise Psychology from West Virginia University and his Master of Arts in Higher Education and Student Affairs from The Ohio State University. Our third guest is Anthony Fralick, who has over a decade of experience within student affairs, having explored the various areas of the profession at public and private four-year universities and two-year community colleges. Anthony currently serves as an academic advisor at the Lone Star College System's Tomball campus, where he has spent the last 3.5 years establishing its career services. As an advisor, he supports students as they pursue competitive health science programs or transfer to university partners. He's worked with several graduate students in higher education and student affairs programs, allowing them to see the inner workings of both community colleges and advising, career, and transfer services during their internships. Anthony is a native Houstonian and has a long history with the college dating back before his time as a student.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:22]: He earned his Bachelor of Arts in Interdisciplinary Studies with a math and science concentration from Houston Baptist University, now Houston Christian University, and a Master of Arts in Higher Education Administration from Sam Houston State University. Welcome back to our next episode of Student Affairs voices from the field. I'm glad to have 3 guests on today, all who are working with NASPA's undergraduate conference. So first, I'd like to welcome Brooke.

Dr. Brooke Paradise [00:03:45]: Hey folks, Dr. Brooke Paradise, they/them/their pronouns. Nice to meet you all.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:49]: And now we have Sohan.

Sohan Daniel [00:03:51]: Hey everyone, uh, Sohan Daniel, he/him/his pronouns. Great to meet you. Great to chat with you today.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:55]: And finally, Anthony.

Anthony Froelich [00:03:57]: Howdy, Anthony Freilich from Houston, Texas, he/him pronouns.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:00]: So we have folks from 3 different institutions across the US today. Again, we've got New York State, we've got Texas, and we've got Tennessee. So we always always like to start our episodes by asking you, how did you get to your current seat? And Brooke, we'll start with you.

Dr. Brooke Paradise [00:04:13]: To my current seat, I've been in student affairs for 15 years, and then this job popped up. And throughout those 15 years, I've worked at a multitude of institutions, and I love the small liberal arts. And this job came up and I was like, their mantra is creative thought matters. I love that. So I applied and here we are. I got lucky.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:31]: And Sowen, you're pretty new in Tennessee. How did you end up there?

Sohan Daniel [00:04:35]: Yeah, I just graduated from my master's program back in May, and I was looking all over the place, had no idea where in the United States I would end up. But I was very passionate about land-grant institutions and the missions they hold. And University of Tennessee had an opening with Student Conduct and felt the desire to apply. And now I'm here.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:52]: Congratulations on making your transition from student into professional. And Anthony?

Anthony Froelich [00:04:57]: So for me, as I'm similar to Brooke, as I've had over a decade of student affairs experience in different areas since I was an undergrad student, I worked at both 4-year and 2-year community college institutions. And the community college institution really fit my, what I felt like as my personal needs for helping students prepare for those long-term, both academic and career trajectories.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:18]: All three of you are helping to lead the Undergraduate Conference for NASPA, which is coming up this spring. For our NASPA members who have never heard of this, or maybe didn't do the NUFP program, what is the Undergraduate Conference?

Dr. Brooke Paradise [00:05:30]: So the undergrad program is exactly what it sounds like. It's for undergrad students coming, wanting a leadership experience. It's an introduction not only to the student affairs profession, but leadership in general, and we're really trying to hone in on transferable skills and what does leadership look like beyond college. So it's just, it's a beautiful time to network, learn, engage, and sort of get a feel for student affairs.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:54]: The framing that it's not just about potentially joining the profession of student affairs, but it's more about leadership skills that you're building as an undergraduate student that you can take forward to the next step. Who are you seeing come to the conference?

Dr. Brooke Paradise [00:06:05]: So granted, I have, this is my second year within the conference, but The students that I talked with last year, some of them were diehard student affairs and they were like, this is the path I'm going into a higher ed profession for my master's degree, and this is what I want. And others were like, I'm actually majoring in business, but I was curious about like the leadership opportunities. So I would say it's honestly a mix of students who want that professional networking experience, want to go to a conference and sort of network and engage, and then some who just want to understand what life looks like beyond college, whether that is grad school or whether that is a career. So it's, it's a beautiful mixed bag.

Sohan Daniel [00:06:42]: Yeah, and to add on to that, Brooke, I completely agree with you that there's such a wide array of students that we have at the undergraduate conference. In addition to that, some students are just trying to figure it out. They're trying to figure out what those next steps look like, and maybe this is that opportunity for them to think through what does, what does life after college look like. And for some of our students, like you said, USC is that sticking point for maybe I can have a career in student affairs. I'm meeting a lot of professionals, have done I'm interested in and have a successful career, or it might be something else. But it's a great opportunity to have that networking experience, to expand your networks and try and get a better feel for what next looks like for you.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:22]: Graduate student travel is not particularly common for higher ed institutions, and sometimes it's really tricky to fund. Sometimes university travel policies require that there is a professional staff member that attends alongside of those students. So if I'm a professional and I'm thinking about wanting a student to go or supporting a student to go, what should I be thinking about for getting that person from my campus to the conference?

Dr. Brooke Paradise [00:07:47]: I love that question and actually engaging with that a little bit here at Skidmore because we haven't brought a student before, but we are looking to bring one this year. So, there's a couple of different things. When you think of a college student, you're like, oh my gosh, they're still in school, but they're adults, right, for all intents and purposes. So, they can travel and they can do their own thing. So, like, what do those logistics look like? How are we supporting them, but how are we allowing them to authentically grow and be their own professional? And so, like, blending those two together, and I kind of explained it to our VP as, like, we have clubs on campus and organizations that travel and go to tournaments and things of that nature. Think of it as that. Think of it as an event that they are doing off campus. How do we support them with funding? And are there grants that they can apply for as a student? And what does that look like? Do you, as the professional, have to travel with them? No, not necessarily.

Dr. Brooke Paradise [00:08:35]: Is it a good opportunity for you to connect and say you are sharing a flight? Absolutely. But does that have to be the case? This can really be a learning and growth opportunity prior, understanding how you prep, how you plan, how you organize and get yourself sort of situated for that. So navigating and understanding what the bigger conference looks like and then how to support the student, that's part of the educational process too. And it's gorgeous.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:00]: Let's talk about conference format for a moment. I know that I've never been to the undergraduate conference personally. I've been to, you know, our NASPA annual, I've been to a couple of other different versions of smaller NASPA conferences like regional and topical and things like that. And so I kind of have a vision of what to go into in terms of like, you know, I have to pick my concurrent sessions. There's going to be keynote speakers. There might be some reception events. And, you know, I'm planning my day from 7 a.m. to 11 p.m.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:27]: for 3, 4 days in a row. Is the undergraduate conference adopting a similar format or something more unique for the audience?

Dr. Brooke Paradise [00:09:35]: I can jump in and start a little bit. We do a mix, so it's a gentle bridge. We have a bunch of sessions that are happening concurrently at the same time. We have the keynote speakers, some traditional things that you would see at a conference, but we also have what are called small group breakouts, and they have a mentor-esque, and that's an opportunity for you to ask some more in-depth questions, get some hands-on sort of feedback, meeting with your small groups a little bit. So I would say it is a mix of like the big national and with a little bit more hands-on. So you're really getting the support that you need. So that's from my perspective, we try to blend those two.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:09]: This aspect of adding a mentor component into these small groups, I think that's something that we I could probably adopt at other professional conferences, to be honest. What are the mentors doing? How did they get selected? What are they offering?

Dr. Brooke Paradise [00:10:22]: So, we're in that process right now. We just put a call out for small group mentors, and they can be graduate students or professional students— or professionals, excuse me. And so, the beautiful thing about it is they come with a range of experience, and it's sort of just who you get assigned with, and you get to understand a little bit of the nuances of their work, how they got into the field, what they're doing, and it provides a little bit more of an in-person person sort of networking moment where you're not in a larger group and you are free to have a dialogue and free to ask questions. So we're actually, we put the call out now and really excited to see what this year brings.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:58]: Talk about that call for a moment because I think this is going to be released before that call expires. So let's talk about that detail.

Dr. Brooke Paradise [00:11:05]: So if you go on to our Instagram, our Instagram is live and running and our social media team is crushing it. We put a call out there and we're going to do another bump very shortly if you want be a small group mentor, that is where you can sign up. So there will be two different ways where you can get involved. An email will go out in the NASPA sort of agenda that gets sent out via email, and then through our USC undergrad Instagram platform.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:30]: And that handle, I believe, is @NASPAUS.

Dr. Brooke Paradise [00:11:34]: Yes.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:34]: Anthony, you look like you're going to jump in.

Anthony Froelich [00:11:36]: Yeah, so my actual start with the USC Planning Committee was actually in '23 for Boston as a small group facilitator. It was a great opportunity that as a professional who wants to give back to the field, but also who's looking to be in leadership or faculty roles to invest in aspiring professionals, the small group facilitator is just an easy way to kind of ease into that contributing to the field. So I just wanted to give that plug for people who were interested in the small group facilitators, that, that is a very easy role to jump on that has a lot of collaborative work with it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:12:12]: I love that you mentioned that, Anthony, because when we have the NASPA board chair on annually, I always like to ask them how they got involved with NASPA. What is that kind of entry point? NAPSA is so big that it can be really intimidating to take the first step into wherever I want to give my time or attention, and this feels really, really accessible. So if I am applying for and selected as a small group mentor, what should I expect to do?

Dr. Brooke Paradise [00:12:36]: So if you are selected to be a small group mentor, you would get a list of students, attendees that are coming, and there's this sort of rudimentary introductions, a couple icebreakers to get them going, sort of things to sort of break the ice and get them Talking and chatting, but then really we walk them through sort of guided questions of like, what do you want to get out of this conference? So the first time you sort of meet with your small group, you do the icebreakers and then looking at the day ahead, how do you want to map out your day and what do you hope to get from it? At lunch, we then come back together and we do small groups too. And it's like a lunch and learn. We're doing box lunches this year and it's like a really, we're, we're honing in on the learning and not missing an opportunity for that. So like at lunchtime, what are your goals and where do you want to be at? What are some things you want to reflect on? And then throughout throughout the rest of that time, when they meet up at the end, okay, what did you learn overall? So it's sort of like this reflective journaling throughout the day where you're sort of understanding the conference itself, how you're sort of fitting into it, what you're learning, what you want to get out of it. So yeah, it's just, it's a beautiful space.

Anthony Froelich [00:13:39]: I'll also add, it's also just kind of a really cool opportunity for students that have always just networked within their own social circles or within their own campuses to meet someone who is not necessarily tied to their institution. And who has the opportunity to build a network kind of starting with someone that's there specifically for them. I know that as aspiring professionals and students, kind of the, sometimes the assumption is, oh, I'm only supposed to network with people that are directly related to my career path or who there's a mutual give and take from. And I think the student affairs profession is kind of a beautiful place. And so is the undergrad conference of we're here for students. In any capacity. And that's what networking's all about, is to meet people who share similar goals or who just want to invest and see you be successful.

Sohan Daniel [00:14:32]: One part to that that I want to add is I remember my first undergrad student conference when I was a student and I was thinking about pursuing this career in student affairs. And outside of my mentor in undergrad who went to his master's program maybe 20 years ago, I didn't really have anyone else around my age that was interested in student affairs. So I met these small group mentors and a lot of them were younger people, either in grad school or fresh out of grad school. So as a student, it was a really cool opportunity for me to connect with those people. Years passed, I still remember most of those people, still talk to them here and there, hopefully at annual conference again this year. But the impact really did mean a lot to me, and I know the impact of those small group mentors means so much to our student participants.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:14]: So, and I love that you attended as an undergraduate and now you're on the other side helping curate the experience for the attendees. Can you talk about about your journey from attendee and kind of the experience you had now to being on the planning side?

Sohan Daniel [00:15:27]: Yeah, so it all started in 2022. We were in Baltimore. The Undergraduate Student Conference was virtual that year, so I didn't really resonate with that conference that much that year. But then in 2023, it was in person in Boston. During that year, I really felt that call towards student affairs, and at that point, I already agreed to pursue my master's degree. So knowing how much the Undergraduate Student Conference meant for me and how much it shaped my vision for how I want my graduate experience to look like. While at Ohio State, whenever I started grad school, I saw the call out for committee members. And I told myself, you know, I know how much this conference meant for me my senior year.

Sohan Daniel [00:16:03]: I would like to apply and try and give back to students that are also interested in it. And that's pretty much where it all started. I just applied, saw what happened, and just tried to do my part to make a difference. And this day for students, it is just one day, but it's so meaningful for so many of our participants that if they go in student affairs, if they go out of student affairs, it's just a memorable experience to be together. Learn together about a different topic or what you may not know and connect with people.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:16:29]: Is there anything specific that happened in the year you got to attend that you want to make sure you're replicating for those who attend this year?

Sohan Daniel [00:16:35]: I would just say probably the group portions of it. I think over the past 2 and a half years that I've been a part of the USC committee, I've been a big fan and a big proponent of saying, hey, let's have small group sessions or let's have table sessions where your students are talking with people and not just sessions where they're just sitting behind listening to someone, though there is benefit in that. As a participant, I saw the most benefit when I was able to engage in dialogue with VPSA's directors, grad students, mentors, anyone across the board where I'm able to get out my ideas and hear what they have to say. And as a table, we're able to work together and talk through these issues and get answers that we really want and need to help us and make us benefit of the conference.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:18]: I think that leads to another great moment of insight for both you, Anthony, and Brooke, about what what makes you passionate about coming into the undergraduate student space with leadership and mentorship? Obviously, for, for Soan, it, it was a very natural evolution of attendee, but for the two of you, what's your journey into the space and what makes it joyful for you?

Dr. Brooke Paradise [00:17:38]: Gosh, I think it started when I was writing my dissertation, and I did my dissertation on retention and attrition rates in student affairs profession, and they opened up about some really vulnerable stories in their student affairs journey and what that the impacts that the work had on them personally and professionally, and being newer in the profession, it shed light on things and it made me understand like the depth of the position and things that were being brought into the position. And I said, we could do a lot better. And so like, what does better look like? And how do we mentor younger students? And how do we cultivate a positive affirming space where learning can take place and where leadership growth can happen? And so instead of sort of jumping on like a negative bandwagon or seeing things this is like, um, a struggle. I was like, how can we make it better? And kind of like someone said, the call came out and I didn't participate at the undergrad student conference as an undergrad. This is— this was not my career path at all. I didn't know about student affairs. And so now, as I was professionally in it, I was like, oh my gosh, how do we get folks to come into this profession? And then how do we retain folks? Like, what does this professional development look like? So I really focus on like retention and what it means to bring joy to the work and how you can find joy in the work. And I'm hoping that students get out of USC conference.

Dr. Brooke Paradise [00:18:58]: I'm hoping that they see that. So that's kind of what drew me into it and why I really wanted to be a part of USC.

Anthony Froelich [00:19:04]: I think for me it was just kind of a natural progression of my career trajectory that started in my undergrad experience. So I was not an undergrad student conference attendee. I graduated, I think, the year it first happened with NASPA. And so at the time, NASPA wasn't even on my radar as an undergrad. But once I was pointed to the direction of working with college students and being in student affairs, I got to a point where it was the realization that the great experience I wanted to provide students had to also be modeled for other professionals to be able to take those experiences to further simulate or adapt to their institutions. And so when I saw the call for the Undergrad Student Conference for, in fall of '22 for the Boston conference in '23, I was like, oh sure, why not? You know, sounds super cool. We're gonna do it. I got exposed to NASPA through my graduate studies, a couple years prior, and it was probably like one of the best professional experiences I have participated in because it has further affirmed and even evolved kind of what I want my career outlooks and kind of my career goals for myself, for investing in other professionals and for students, and even showing, um, in my case, like community college is an option for individuals.

Anthony Froelich [00:20:24]: It's not just about finding the 4-year university home, but community colleges and 2-year institutions are reliable and solid options for employment and national participation in associations like NASPA or NCADA or any of the other ones that are present in the field.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:40]: Talk about the keynote speaker lineup for the conference. Who's coming? What are they talking about?

Dr. Brooke Paradise [00:20:45]: So we have the VP of Student Affairs that is joining us from UMKC. He's absolutely fantastic, and I am pulling up his bio right now, but his name is Don, and he's just the most personal individual I have ever met. Reaching out and figuring out what school we were going to, I was like, I'm going to start with Residence Life. Residence Life has all of the answers. And so I reached out to them and they were like, we're going to loop in a few other people. Don jumped on the call. And when I say he was just the most approachable, humble, kind, enthusiastic, and invested individual, I was like, oh my gosh, I have a VP of Student Affairs talking to me about this undergrad conference and he wants to be involved. So he is coming and I'm hoping that he sheds light on transformative leadership and how to sort of navigate the profession and what that looks like.

Dr. Brooke Paradise [00:21:37]: But he has been so involved and supportive with this process. And I was like, oh my gosh, I would've never started there. So thank you so much for jumping in. But he's just been wildly receptive to the idea of it being hosted at his institution. And grateful is just an understatement.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:52]: When we think about the undergraduate conference, a lot of people are not aware that it is attached to Annual. So there's an opportunity that if you're attending Annual and you wanted to encourage any undergraduate students to go and you're also going to Annual, there there's some natural connection there. It's not overlapping with Annual, but it is attached. So any other things that you'd like people to know logistics-wise about making this happen if they'd like to support a student to go?

Dr. Brooke Paradise [00:22:17]: I would say since the USC conference is only one day, you don't have to register for both. So you can just register for the undergrad conference and you can have a, a shorter stay in Kansas City. If you want to register for both, you can. And then the logistics of just doing and registering for both. So once you register for one, you do have to register for the other if you want to. So just the technicalities and the logistics of registering, but it's certainly worthwhile just to go for the undergrad student portion of it if that is what you want to do. And if you want to take a deeper dive, absolutely stay for the annual.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:49]: It's not a pre-con, I think is the most important message there. It's not a pre-con. Are there any other thoughts that any of you wanted to share about the undergraduate student conference coming up or any other tidbits about experience getting involved, et cetera?

Anthony Froelich [00:23:03]: I would just add that for anyone who's looking, kind of like you said earlier, Jill, just for an easy way to start participating in NASPA kind of on a national scope, or even anyone who's looking to mentor, coach, or just give back to the profession somehow, the undergrad conference has a variety of opportunities to do that, not just in small group facilitation or the ed sessions that our submissions just closed yesterday, but even for next year's planning committee. Or in my experiences, it's been such a cool opportunity seeing everyone bring in their own experiences and really contribute their own thoughts and skill sets to making things happen. For just for a fun fact, because I know Charlie included this, but the text to Brooke and Charlie was just a, hey, have we ever thought about pitching USC for a podcast? And now here we are. And so no idea is, is a bad idea when it comes to the Undergrad Student Conference because the field and our students are constantly changing and evolving. So this is a great way to kind of meet those needs for each generation of professionals.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:24:09]: I think the Undergraduate Student Conference is such an embodiment of our podcast season theme, or this, I guess it's a year arc theme that we're doing this year, which is on the value of student affairs and the value of student affairs kind of supporting undergraduate students and graduate students through their journeys, but also potentially in their journeys to become part of the cohort of professionals that, that we all occupy. So with that in mind, I'm going to go ahead and transition us into our theme questions. And our first one is, when you think about the value of student affairs, what comes to mind first and why?

Dr. Brooke Paradise [00:24:42]: So I just took my kids to Great Wolf Lodge over New Year's Eve, and I have a multitude of ages, 4 all the way up to teenage, and the 4-year-old isn't quite brave enough, but sees the older siblings diving in and doing all of the adventurous things. And we had to have a conversation about like what it looks like to be brave, but also how to be safe. And she put on a life vest and then she was able to take it off at some points. And so when I was thinking about this question, I was like, oh my gosh, it's just like the conversation I had with my 4-year-old. It's a choose your own adventure. What does being brave look like? And where does that support come in? And I kind of view student affairs as a life vest. It's like you put it on, it fits what you need. You can take it off when you don't need it, but like it's, it's there for that additional support to help you be brave.

Dr. Brooke Paradise [00:25:28]: You put it on and you're able to go and do the things that might be a little bit out of your league. So she was able to go down some bigger slides because she had that extra life vest on. She wouldn't have been able to do that if she didn't. And so I was just thinking how sort of serenity that is. It's like a life vest. We jump in and we help. We're always there for support. We can sort of meet you where you're at, but you don't need to utilize us all the time.

Dr. Brooke Paradise [00:25:52]: We're just like the silent supporters and cheerleaders allowing you to be brave and authentic and live your truest self. And so that was just really cool to sort of understand and watch my 4-year-old do that and be like, hang on a second, I do that with big kids too.

Sohan Daniel [00:26:05]: Whenever I think about the value of student affairs, I actually think about a number, 168. The reason I think about this number is because my Dean of Students and my undergraduate institution would always say that you have 168 hours in your week. 15 hours you're in class, maybe another 15 you're studying, hopefully more, but that leaves about 138 hours left in your week. So what happens the rest of that time you're in college? That's where Student Affairs comes into play. We are here to walk beside you, we're here to follow behind you, we're here to lead the way and sometimes get in your way. We're here to make the experiences that you need to be successful in college, maybe to make your college experience, but we're also here to support you to ensure that you're able to get that point.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:47]: Some super sage advice. So, and do you want to give a shout out to that Dean of Students?

Sohan Daniel [00:26:50]: Yeah, I'm actually going to give a shout out to two different Dean of Students. The first one I'm going to give a shout out to is my undergraduate Dean of Students with the 168. That is Corey Ferris. And now my current Dean of Students, who I stole the quote from him about the walk behind you, Dr. Byron Hughes.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:03]: And Anthony, what's your take on this question?

Anthony Froelich [00:27:05]: Honestly, probably the most simplest way of saying for the value of student affairs is there's a place and a space for everyone. I talk with professionals all the time about the idea of creating space or finding a seat at the table. A table, but a table is not necessarily just a conference table. It can be a dinner table or a place to share meals. It can be a place to— a board game table where you're gathering for socialization with others. It's a place to strategize, to think through stuff, to study, to build the long-term supports or establish your routines that are going to carry you throughout life. There's always a seat that you can pull up or find at any of these spaces or tables, and the student affairs profession does a great job of making sure that it is accessible and there is opportunities for everyone to participate as much or as little as they want to.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:53]: Our second question in our theme is, can you share a specific story or moment when you saw the value of student affairs come to life?

Dr. Brooke Paradise [00:28:00]: So I think it was for me in undergrad, and I'm going to give a shout out to my previous Dean of Students, Dennis Pru. I was a first-year, a first-gen college student, and lost was an understatement. I didn't register for housing, and so I didn't know that that was something separate that you had to do. I was accepted to college, I thought that everything else was taken care of, and so I show up and I don't have I don't have housing and things are late on my bill and I am a wee bit of a disaster. And I was like, oh my gosh, I thought once I got in, I was good to go. And he saw me struggling immensely. And I was like, I don't have housing. Housing has passed.

Dr. Brooke Paradise [00:28:35]: Do we have housing for me? And I was like, I can't afford to live off of campus. And he was like, we're spiraling. And he was like, we're gonna, we're gonna find housing for you and you're gonna have a roommate and we're going to figure this out. And I was like, someone just swooped in and said, not a problem. I see you're in a crisis. Here are a couple of options. What's gonna make you feel good. And I was just sort of taken aback that I was getting that support that I needed in that moment.

Dr. Brooke Paradise [00:28:58]: And I was like, wow, gosh, if I had that all along, I wouldn't, I wouldn't quit. Like folks wouldn't quit if they just had that silent cheerleader in the background. And so that kind of always stuck with me. I showed up thinking that I was, you know, fabulous, accepted to school, doing the great things and missing every possible deadline and really having that sort of hit me in in the face, and he kind of swooped in. He was like, let's navigate this together. And so I've never forgotten that live in-person navigating in the moment of solving a problem that I caused, and it ended up okay.

Sohan Daniel [00:29:31]: I don't think I have a specific story, but like Brooke, I think I really saw the value of student affairs through residence life. Whenever I was working in residence life in grad school, I didn't have that res life experience in undergrad, so never really saw that side of things. Didn't know what to expect when I first started, but throughout the weeks there would be times where I'm dealing with crises, working with students, trying to support them. Their world is ending and just trying to do the best we can to get to tomorrow. And then maybe 2 hours later, we're just celebrating with other students. Maybe there's a program going on. Maybe we have something going on with our living learning community. And I was just able to see this dynamic of you have such a wide spectrum of some of the toughest days going on for our students and some of the most exciting, memorable moments that students will ever have.

Sohan Daniel [00:30:15]: And we are just in this continuum where it's just we need to be available at both ends. We need to be able to be there to ensure students are having those great moments, celebrating them, giving them those learning opportunities, but also supporting them and holding their hand and making sure they get the support they need to make it to tomorrow, to make it through the week so that they're able to be successful while they're here with us.

Anthony Froelich [00:30:35]: I think mine, like Sohan's, is came from my time in res life, being a professional. And I just remember after a very hard week telling the student workers and the RAs about like making space for one another and what do we need to do to relieve stress and make sure everyone's good with one another. And one of the RAs pulled me a sign and was like, you are the first supervisor who's ever given us a space to be good with one another, not just as colleagues, but also as like students. And just, you have no idea how refreshing that is because that is the first time anyone's ever put, looked at us and seen us as students, not just as resources or employees. So for me, that was kind of like that moment. That was the aha, like student affairs is where I'm supposed to be for a career. And this is kind of like where this work kind of comes to life is making those differences. And giving students the space to not just be developing professionals, but also just to be students, just doing the college thing.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:33]: That's so powerful to hear that that's the first time that someone felt seen as a person in that environment. Our third question is, what do you think student affairs needs to do to be better understood and better seen in today's education environment?

Dr. Brooke Paradise [00:31:45]: Risking sounding like a broken record and realizing and recognizing that this has been said at multiple institutions that I've worked at, I'm going to say it anyway. I would love for the silo between academic affairs and student affairs to be broken down. I think that there's like this mystical thing that sort of looms and stops us from collaborating and sort of coexisting in a really healthy space. And it always just blows my noggin a little bit because the work that we do with students is beautiful, but it's different, but it's still beautiful and we're still here to support it. So I really wish that student affairs and academic affairs would be a little bit more blended. What does that co-curricular aspect look like? How is leadership in a club helping in a business class or as an head major. What does that sort of look like? I think we're still like missing the key to what college really could be if we unlocked the full potential of those two sort of realms playing together a little bit more. There's less of a divide there, and sometimes it's not as strong, and there are points for collaboration, but I think that we're missing where some of that magic could happen.

Dr. Brooke Paradise [00:32:50]: What would it look like if we had a first-year experience seminar being co-taught by a student affairs professional and a faculty member? How beautiful would that be? What would that look like? What if we had a faculty member come and lead a pre-orientation program, something that student affairs folks normally would do. So what would that look like if we blended our world a little bit more? That's just, that's where my brain always goes.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:12]: Gonna shout out Dr. Marcia France on this one, because she and I got to do exactly what you're talking about. We co-developed the first-year seminar course for a university that we were working at. She was the AVP and Dean of Undergraduate Studies. I was the CSAO, Dean of Students at that institution. And we broke it down and said, what are the competencies that we want to see first-year students gain in their first 6 to 8 weeks of their university experience. What does that look like? How do we help students culturally immerse? And how do we want them to come out the other side knowing each other as people? And we completely revamped that first-year experience course in a way that the students came out the other side with much more positive course reviews than previous iterations and just a way of being together. And then the other shout-out I'll give is to Dr.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:55]: Chris Lewis, who is our co-producer on this podcast, who is the chair of the SAPA Knowledge Community here at NASPA, which is the Student Affairs Partnering with Academic Affairs. This is a that he has been ringing for like 20 years, and he's actually the founder of the SAPA Knowledge Community. So he'd be so glad to hear you say that, Brooke.

Sohan Daniel [00:34:11]: I completely agree. I think we need more partnership across the entire university, not try to recreate what some people are already doing across the board. And in my eyes, how we do that is by sharing our stories better. I've heard a lot, and I imagine you all have also heard before, that some people think Student Affairs is the party planning committee. And as you all know, there's so much more that goes into Student Affairs than just that. So how do we effectively share our story, what we're doing, But how do we intentionally make those partnerships and go to other people across the institution to share, hey, this is what we're doing, this is how it's impacting our students, this is how we hope to grow, and then lead to that conversation of, hey, can we look for partnership in maybe this direction? And how can we collaborate so both of our programs can grow from here? So I think being open to partnership, collaboration, but also understanding how do we share our story with one another? How do we engage in proper assessment habits to be able to share those stories effectively with both people across the institution, student affairs partners across the nation, and our students and their families to show that what we're doing is supporting students in the best way possible.

Anthony Froelich [00:35:17]: I'll echo what Brooke and Sowon both talked about, about partnerships and just all the opportunities and stories. And I kind of go two ways with this question. And one is from the community college standpoint is just helping students tell their stories about how student affairs has helped them transition from one institution to another and seeing a consistency in experiences supports and things like that for ultimately what is their post-college life. On the other side, from someone who's a former career services professional and knowing that the scrutiny of higher ed and career readiness is kind of a big thing right now, is helping others realize how much student affairs does to prepare students for employment and life beyond college. So while we know a lot of people are aware that the college education is designed to give them those like technical and those informational-based skills, so much of student affairs work is helping them develop their interpersonal skills that they need to navigate team settings, company environments, social gatherings that they otherwise don't get. And just helping student affairs highlight that work more, I feel like is a great way to help people realize just how much our field is important for just the higher ed experience, as well as just employability. Across the board.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:41]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:36:47]: Thanks, Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world, and there's a ton of things happening in NASPA. There is a new virtual summit, NASPA's Sexual Violence Prevention and Response Virtual Summit, that'll be happening. The 2026 NASPA Sexual Violence and Prevention Response Summit will provide campus and organizational leaders with the knowledge, tools, and strategies needed to drive meaningful campus-wide change in sexual violence prevention and response— in sexual violence prevention and response. Featuring expert-led sessions in evidence-based practices, the summit will equip participants to advance holistic approaches that center prevention, elevate survivor support, strengthen equitable services for respondents, and embed equity, safety, and well-being into into the fabric of campus life. This virtual summit will happen on May 19th between 11 AM and 5 PM, and there are a number of different specific topics that are being, that are being covered, including persisting through unrelenting times, recognizing and responding to harm, invisible yet invincible, empowering multicultural and global students, and more. The early registration deadline for this Phasing Summit is on April 7th, 2026. I highly encourage you to go to the NASPA website to find out more.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:38:08]: NASPA has submitted comments alongside the American Council on Education and 28 other higher education associations to the Department of Education in response to the proposed revisions to the Accreditation Handbook. The comments urge the Education Department to adhere to the Higher Education Act, protect the integrity of the accreditation process and the program integrity triad and avoid using accreditation to impose federal student outcome metrics, expand state authority over institutional eligibility for federal student aid, or treat the handbook as having the force of law. If you'd like to read the entire comments that were provided, I encourage you to go to the policy center on the NASPA website to find out more. I know I've been talking about the NASPA Annual conference, but NASPA provides so much more training and professional development for people, even if you can't attend the annual conference. If you've never visited learning.naspa.org, you definitely should. On that site, you are going to find all of the different learning opportunities that are coming available to you, and this includes webinars, it includes summits, it includes all types of different types of opportunities, short courses, certification courses, and more. All of these are developed to help you in the work that you're doing on a daily basis, and the cost of these are kept low to help you to be able to afford these for you and for your teams. Again, if you've never been to this before, I highly encourage you to go to learning.naspa.org to find out more.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:39:48]: Another great book that NASPA has just released is called Well-Being Leadership in Higher Education: A Guide for Successful Well-Being Programs. This was written by Thaddeus Montero, Ryan Traviah, and Associates. Well-Being Leadership in Higher Education is a groundbreaking guide that reimagines how colleges and universities can center well-being as a strategic priority to enhance student success and institutional effectiveness. Blending theory, research, and practice, this timely volume brings together a wide range range of voices from across the higher education spectrum—student affairs leaders, chief wellness officers, clinicians, and faculty—who all share powerful insights and actionable strategies for leading transformative well-being initiatives. Readers will find field-tested approaches for assessing and evaluating outcomes, creating integrated models of care, and engaging students as key stakeholders in shaping campus cultures of health and wellness. As higher education continues to respond to Growing mental health crisis, this book offers a compelling call to action and a clear roadmap and a clear roadmap for embedding well-being into policies, programs, and daily practice. You can find out more on the NASPA website. When you get there, go to research and publications and click on books.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:41:11]: Every week we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways. Because the association is as strong as its members, and for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the, the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify identify for yourself where do you fit, where do you want to give back. Each week we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community, I see myself doing something like that, or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association, because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:31]: Chris, thank you so much for kicking off our 2026 with another great segment of NASPA World. We always appreciate you telling us, telling us what's going on in and around NASPA. And for our trio of undergraduate student conference leadership members, we've got our lightning round. So I've got 7 questions for you to answer in about 90 seconds. Are you ready to roll? Getting some thumbs up here. All right, here we go. Question number 1: If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

Sohan Daniel [00:43:00]: Final Countdown. I feel like it just gets everyone hyped.

Anthony Froelich [00:43:03]: I would probably say Meet You There by Arizona.

Dr. Brooke Paradise [00:43:05]: Oh my gosh, anything by Taylor Swift, specifically The Man. Swift, specifically The Man.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:10]: Number 2: When you were 5 years old, what did you want to be when you grew up?

Sohan Daniel [00:43:13]: Pretty sure a doctor.

Anthony Froelich [00:43:14]: I didn't have a career title, I just wanted to build Buddy the robot from the Jetsons so mom could play with me more.

Dr. Brooke Paradise [00:43:19]: Oh my gosh, I wanted to be an OB-GYN.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:22]: Number 3, who's your most influential professional mentor?

Sohan Daniel [00:43:24]: Dr. Tame Lee.

Anthony Froelich [00:43:25]: I would say my most recent supervisor, Dr. Sarah Peña-Ho. She just helped give a lot of tangibility for the evolution of career paths.

Dr. Brooke Paradise [00:43:33]: Previous Dean of Students Dennis Pru.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:35]: Number 4, your essential student affairs read.

Sohan Daniel [00:43:38]: I like A Legal Guide for Student Affairs Professionals. I feel like I open it up pretty often.

Anthony Froelich [00:43:43]: I would say my most recent one I've recommended to students is probably Engagement and Employability.

Dr. Brooke Paradise [00:43:48]: White Fragility.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:50]: My favorite moment when I ask this question is I immediately see everyone's heads turn towards their bookshelf. I know we don't air the visual, but it always gives me a moment of joy. Number 5, the best TV show you've been binging lately.

Anthony Froelich [00:44:01]: The Pit was phenomenal. I just finished season 1 last week for next week's season 2 to air.

Dr. Brooke Paradise [00:44:06]: My gosh, Landman.

Sohan Daniel [00:44:08]: Lately, Stranger Things.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:44:09]: Before we go on, someone, I have to ask you, do you believe?

Sohan Daniel [00:44:12]: I think we will know on January 7th at 8 PM, given beliefs that there's a new episode dropping.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:44:19]: Number 6, the podcast you spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

Sohan Daniel [00:44:22]: Modern Wisdom.

Dr. Brooke Paradise [00:44:23]: Oh my gosh. The Kelsey Brothers because of Taylor Swift.

Anthony Froelich [00:44:26]: It only beat SA Voices in the Field by 7 minutes, but the Adventures in Advising podcast.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:44:31]: Maybe we'll have to do a crossover with that one. And then finally, number 7, any shoutouts you'd like to give, personal or professional?

Sohan Daniel [00:44:37]: A professional shoutout to Joseph Ballard, Brandon Jones, and Dr. Tain Lee, mentors of my life in student affairs, always pushing me forward, and my partner Olivia Deller.

Anthony Froelich [00:44:47]: For me professionally, I already talked about Dr. Sarah Peña Ho. She's phenomenal. But Dr. David Davis and Krista Nix, they were the first two individuals to give me a chance with student affairs work as an undergrad student. But on top of that, I also want to give a shout out to last year's chair, as well as the person who brought me on to USC, which was Jillian Strong. So her work with USC has been phenomenal, and she has been a great connector to bring in a lot of talent over the years.

Dr. Brooke Paradise [00:45:14]: Shout out to two of my biggest mentors, Dennis Pru and Victoria Angus. They've really shaped my professional life. And then honestly, Anthony and Sohan, and to the entire USC committee that's working on this with me, I, I couldn't do it without you all. So I'm so grateful.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:29]: I have a cousin who's currently an undergrad student at the University of Southern California, so I'm having to like retool my brain every time you say USC to mean Undergraduate Student Conference. But if you'd like to find more information on socials, again on Instagram, it's @NASPAUSC. But if any of our listeners would like to reach you individually, how can they find you?

Sohan Daniel [00:45:47]: You can find me on LinkedIn at Sohan Daniel, or by email, [email protected].

Anthony Froelich [00:45:53]: I'm open to connections on LinkedIn. So it's LinkedIn, the URL, and then Anth Fralick, or you just search Anthony Fralick on the search bar, or you can shoot me an email at [email protected].

Dr. Brooke Paradise [00:46:06]: If you want to connect, you can find me at [email protected].

Anthony Froelich [00:46:12]: Thank you so much for your time, Jill. This was an awesome experience and I'm very excited to see kind of what happens from here.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:18]: Thank you all so very much for educating us on the undergraduate conference. For sharing your voices with us today.

Sohan Daniel [00:46:23]: Thank you, Jill.

Dr. Brooke Paradise [00:46:24]: Thank you, Jill.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:30]: This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field, brought to you by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to be so grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email us at [email protected] or find me on LinkedIn by searching for for Dr. Jill L. Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions always. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:47:00]: It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton. That's me. Produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

The latest episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field kicks off Season 14 with a truly inspiring conversation with incoming NASPA Board Chair, Dr. Darryl Holloman. Hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton, the episode dives deep into the evolving landscape of higher education and what it means to work in student affairs today.

Dr. Holloman brings over three decades of experience to the table, spanning roles at HBCUs, PWIs, and across governance, academic administration, and talent management. His journey to Vice President for Student Affairs at Spelman College is a testament to the power of mentorship, professional exploration, and seizing unexpected opportunities.

The conversation focuses on the value and challenges facing student affairs professionals, particularly in a period marked by ongoing turmoil—post-pandemic disruption, shifting enrollment, and threats to DEI initiatives. Dr. Holloman emphasizes the need to move beyond accepting the "new normal" and instead frame current challenges as "new possibilities," encouraging professionals to be both forward-ready and future-ready.

At the heart of his vision is the "North Star Project," an initiative designed to reclaim public trust and redefine the purpose of higher education. This multifaceted endeavor includes three key arms:

1. Rebuilding Public Trust Survey: A national study examining how those outside higher ed perceive colleges and universities, pushing for deeper understanding beyond the usual Gallup poll data.

2. New Professional Task Force: A focus on early-career professionals, listening deeply to their needs, and developing skill-building opportunities—like real-time badging systems—to help retain talent and strengthen the student affairs pipeline.

3. NASPA Commission on HBCU and Community College Pathways: An effort to amplify the voices of HBCUs and community colleges within NASPA's governance, reflecting their crucial roles in access and mission-driven education.

Dr. Holloman's personal values—knowledge, God, family, humility, and hard work—shine throughout the discussion, reinforcing the importance of aligning purpose and professional philosophy.

If you're looking for insight into the future of student affairs, practical strategies for professional development, and a fresh take on the value of our field, this is a must-listen. Tune in to hear how Dr. Holloman and NASPA are charting a new course, and discover ways to get involved in shaping the next chapter.

Listen to the episode and join the conversation!

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:01]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher education professionals wherever you happen to be. This is Season 14, continuing our conversation on the value of student affairs. I'm Dr. Jill Creighton, she/her/hers, your SA Voices from the Field host. Welcome back to Student Affairs Voices from the Field. We are thrilled to kick off our current season with Dr. Darryl B.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:33]: Holloman, who is a distinguished leader in higher education with over 3 decades of experience in student affairs, academic administration, institutional advancement, governance and board relations, and human talent management. Dr. Holloman has worked at several regional and nationally recognized higher education institutions where he supervised collectively over 300 employees and overseen budgets of over $300 million. Dr. Holloman's extensive experience strategically vision and unwavering commitment to student success and institutional excellence make him a transformative leader in higher ed. He currently serves as the VPSA at Spelman College, but he's held senior-level positions at Georgia State University, Columbus State University, and Rutgers University-Newark. He's held faculty appointments at each institution, including full-time faculty appointments at the University of Arkansas-Little Rock and the institutions aforementioned. His contributions continue to inspire and shape the future of academic communities.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:23]: Dr. Holloman has several articles and book chapters to his credit. His research examines the way that disadvantage manage groups, develop, and demonstrate their agency in educational systems, particularly within urban school settings. He's the co-editor of the book entitled From Boyhood to Manhood: Deconstructing Black Masculinity Through a Lifespan Continuum through Peter Lang Press. His most current manuscript is entitled In the Middle: Leading as a Mid-Level Professional in Student Affairs, which was published by NASPA. He's an active member of St. Luke's Episcopal Church, and he lives in Atlanta with a spouse of 32 years, Glenn Williams, and their two sons, Delbert and Delvin. But most importantly, and why we have him on pod today as he is our incoming NASPA Board Chair.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:04]: We hope you enjoy this conversation. Darryl, welcome to SA Voices.

Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:02:08]: Thank you so much. I'm glad to be here.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:11]: We are absolutely honored to have you as our season premiere for this season of SA Voices here in spring of 2026, and you are joining us in a long and illustrious line of NASPA Board Chairs-to-be. It's one of our favorite episodes to record in the springtime. Last, last year we had Mike Christakis on who is just finishing up his full year as Board Chair. And in just a couple of weeks now, that gavel will be passing your way. So this episode is one where we like to introduce you to the NASPA membership, what you hope that your leadership will bring to the association over the next year, and messages for our NASPA membership. So before we get into all of that, our favorite question to start the show off with is how did you get to your current seat, both at Spelman and at NASPA?

Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:02:59]: Well, I got to Spelman. It was a really interesting journey because I was serving on the board of a local charter school. And the guy that we hired as a CEO said, hey, I really want you to meet my mom. And his mom works at Spelman. She's still on my staff at Spelman. And he's, you know, we just, let's go to lunch. And so we went to lunch. And at that time I was AVP Dean of Students at Georgia State University.

Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:03:23]: And I was starting to think about, you know, where would I go to be a vice president for student affairs? I have this lunch and at the end of the lunch, my colleague said, "Hey, you should apply at Spelman. We have an opening." And at that time, I said, "Oh, okay, sure, I'll look at it." But, you know, Spelman is an all-women's HBCU in Atlanta. I've not ever worked at an HBCU. I've not worked at a liberal arts college, small college, and definitely an all-women's college. And so I applied. I applied with 6 very wonderful women. Half of them I knew very personally. And then I got the call that I had the job, which totally caught me off guard because it was— was not in the trajectory of where I thought my career was going.

Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:04:07]: I had worked— done most of my work at large, larger public institutions, predominantly white institutions. And so I got the job. I have had a tremendous, tremendous experience here. I got to NASPA 30 years ago. I had a dean of students, Dean Curt Kepler, who hired me. I was a student worker, and then he hired me on as a staff. And he said I should go to this thing called a new professional institute. And at that time, NASPA had this nationwide platform, onboarding new professionals, and it was at UGA, and it was so impactful that it led me into a lifelong volunteer commitment with NASPA, and it's been extremely rewarding, and I've, I've just done so many things, have so many opportunities, have an upcoming book in the middle, co-edited with Gigi Segubin and Spencer Platt, that'll be coming out in the spring.

Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:04:57]: So there's so many wonderful opportunities to NASPA, so I've just been really blessed professionally and in my volunteer activities.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:04]: What have you done in NASPA in terms of volunteerism, leadership, contribution before deciding to run for board chair?

Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:05:12]: So I had a wonderful opportunity from one of, one of my colleagues, Danita Brown-Young. And Danita, she called me, she said, hey, I think I want you to be my member at large, and I want you to focus on how can NASPA better support HBCUs. And so I joined the board. We did surveys, like some really great work around that, but that really gave me gave me some great insight into how NASPA runs as an organization, the work that it does, the commitments that it makes, and, you know, kind of the engine in the car. And so that was very powerful for me to be able to have that experience as a member board chair. Prior to that, and this was really a great experience for me, I had joined the NASPA Foundation Board, and those two in tandem have been really helpful to help me understand not just in NASPA, but how organizations run, how nonprofits run, how boards run, the decisions that have to be made. And so it's just been a wonderful experience. And outside of presenting and doing some of the other stuff, those have been the most significant governance opportunities that I've had at NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:19]: And now let's think about what is ahead. So again, in just a couple of weeks here, we'll be seeing you in Kansas City. The board will be convening, the membership will be convening for our annual learning opportunity at conference. What are you thinking about going into this transition?

Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:06:35]: So, you know, we are in such turmoil right now in higher ed. You know, we followed the pandemic. It was very, very much a disruptor. And then now we're just faced with a lot of challenges, enrollment cliffs, DEI leaving many of our institutions that have become such a part of our fabric, funding in so many ways, federal funding being taken. So it's a real difficult time. And I think I keep hearing people talk about this is our new normal. This is our new normal. And I want to really challenge us to start to think beyond that and to think, how do we turn our new normal into new possibilities? And how can we be more forward-ready and future-ready? And I think the best way for us to do that as an association is to really lean into our memberships.

Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:07:23]: I think sometimes when you work in student affairs, we have such an emphasis on students, and that should be, that's important. That's, that's our lifeblood. But if we are not in really good spaces in terms of our our own professional development, our own training, our own understanding, if we are not having holistic wellness, then we can't do the work that we need to do. We don't have the capacity to do it for students. And so my idea is kind of wrapped into what I'm calling the North Star Project. The North Star historically had been seen as a symbol in African American communities as that guiding point, that place that took you from oppression to a place of freedom and enlightenment. And so, um, The North Star Project is all about reclaiming the purpose and public trust of higher education, because I do believe there's a lack of trust in higher education. And so I have three arms of the North Star Project.

Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:08:17]: One is a national study that is being conducted by Tim Bono, who is my member at large. And we really, through the Rebuilding Public Trust national survey, we want to get an understanding of how people outside of higher ed view us. And so we're kind of expanding upon the Gallup poll. The Gallup poll tells us there's a lack of confidence in higher education, but we want to drill down a little bit deeper and know why. Because I think a lot of times in higher ed, we preach to the choir and we're talking to one another and we really don't know often what are the perceptions of individuals who maybe not have even attended college. And so to be stronger, I think we need that information. And so Tim Bono will be doing that national survey. Survey on the trust in higher education, the confidence in higher education.

Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:09:07]: Very excited about that. I've seen the survey a bit to get the results and see what happens. The next thing is, as I mentioned earlier, something that impacted my career. And so I'm really looking to bring together a group of people under the new professional task force to get a better understanding of professionals that are coming in with 1 to 5 years of experience. And I think we have a flood of new professionals that think differently about the work, that perceive the work differently. In my generation, I'm a Gen Xer, my generation has a tendency to keep saying like, why don't they just do like we did? But it's a different time. They're presented with way different challenges, having to make decisions in a very different way and under a lot of pressure. And so I'm really interested in seeing how our association can pour into our new professionals.

Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:09:57]: And so the New Professional Task Force is all about strengthening the student affairs pipeline because what What I'm hearing now are senior-level people who are just really, really burned out. I jokingly say we're all a lottery ticket away from not being vice presidents of student affairs. And then I think you have mid-levels who see the stressors that the VP does and they don't wanna do it. And they're like, I'm fine. Like, I'm, I'm gonna stay in this role. I'm good. I don't need to be the vice president. And then you have new professionals who are coming in with a different set of expectations.

Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:10:32]: And so I think starting at the front end of the pipeline will help us to guide people to those senior-level positions. And the last thing is a NASPA commission on HBCU and community college pathways, because I think these institutions provide a lot of opportunities for students. Many are access-driven, deeply mission-driven. And I think what I'm seeing definitely at HBCUs is a resurgence of high school students who are interested in HBCUs. They're kind of seeing some of the ultra micro-aggressions the oppressions that are occurring in society, and they're looking for space that affirm them and validate them. And so HBCUs play a critical role in being able to do that. And so I think it's critically important in the alignment with HBCUs is really focusing also on community colleges. Our country is really beginning deep discussions about affordability and what that means.

Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:11:28]: And we've been talking about that in higher ed for like the last 20 years of affordability. And you can't have a conversation about affordability and being able to manage loan debt in higher education without also thinking about community colleges and the works that occur within community colleges. I'm extremely excited about this initiative because I think our association has an opportunity to better understand the needs and the engagements at HBCUs and community colleges and really figuring out how we not only have these members as participants, but how do we get them as well into governance structures. Cultures. I'll use, for example, HBCUs. I don't always want to be the only HBCU voice in the room because we're all so very different. About 103 HBCUs, all institutions with different types, different missions, and that brings a different type of voice into the room. So the North Star Project really is comprised of three arms.

Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:12:29]: It is rebuilding public trust survey, trying to gather and gain information about how people view us on the outside. Pulling together a group to look at the new professional task force, which is about strengthening student affairs pipeline. And the last is the NASPA Commission on HBCU and community college pathways. So we get a better understanding of how we can support this sector of our field.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:12:53]: I really like your theme of it being the North Star and being our guiding light for the profession and helping us find some direction as professionals. And I'd like to take these one by one. The first project being that external survey, who are we surveying to ask about the perceptions of higher education?

Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:13:09]: So we are specifically looking for folks who are— that don't work in higher education, that may not have attended higher education. And so it is the segment of the population that probably have the most questions about higher education and the value of higher education. But we're also in that survey will be included people who graduated from colleges. And so I think there are segments of our population who have— we've been required to get graduate degrees. And I think there's some frustration about that, right? You've gone to college, you've spent a lot of money, and then you're not working in your major. You're not working in the field that you thought you were, and you have all of this college debt and this degree that you may not be having the best usage of. And so it's gonna be a combination of people that are completely outside of higher education. So it won't be us speaking to us.

Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:14:05]: It will be really gathering the ideas and perspectives of people outside. So for one of the questions that I can remember, we are looking at college presidents asking the question about senior leaders in higher education. Do people even know what a college president is supposed to do? Do you have perceptions about that? But I think we may be— college presidents may be out of sync with what society is expecting of a college president. And so we just want to get some cleaner insight, deeper insight into the work that we do. It's almost like a 360 for higher education.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:40]: I think that's an interesting statement that maybe the general public doesn't know what a university president does, but I also wonder often if internally within our organizations, we all know what a college president does, especially if we're several hierarchical layers removed from that position. We've talked to several college presidents on the pod who have been former VPSAs, and I think our student affairs folks, we all know what a VPSA does, but that college presidency is a little bit mystical sometimes. And some of the presidents that we've spoken to are focused on fundraising, some are focused on legislative action, but almost all of them seem to be externally focused more than internally focused right now. And I think that's an interesting shift.

Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:15:19]: And I was talking about this with a friend that, you know, probably 50 years ago, people talked about— they were— I'll use Georgia State as an example, right? Not, not to say that the Georgia State president says this, but, you know, they would say, I am Georgia State's president. Right? But now I think people think, I am the president of XYZ institution. And it's a small nuance in the differences of that. But saying, I am Georgia State's president, or I'm said institution's president, puts the president really in the center of the mission, that they are part of the community. But when you start to say, I am the president of X, it almost makes it it feel as if, you know, and you rightfully so, the leader, but you're in this kind of real corporate leader mind, you know, kind of mindset and running. And I think just over time, the idea of what it means to be a college president has changed so drastically that I wonder sometimes if some college presidents even— I think they get surprised when they get into the role and they figure out it is not necessarily what they may have thought it was going to be, because it's a definite difference in being a college president today. You're running more of an enterprise now than just a college. And I think that sense of higher ed being an enterprise is where I think communities are feeling like, well, I don't understand, like, what does the college president do? And so getting information on the outside, I think helps to inform and align the expectations of what college presidents are doing in society today.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:16:54]: Absolutely. I'll be very much looking forward to learning what we learn, because I think we have kind of our own narrative. Our own communities about what we hear from friends, family, social spaces, what, you know, what we do at universities and especially in the American context right now, there's a lot shifting about higher education and the perception of higher ed. Let's go to that second part of the North Star Project, which is the new professional pipeline. That 1 to 5 year space, I think is incredibly critical as we're seeing a generational shift of who's occupying that 1 to 5 year space. We're seeing the last of the millennials come through the early stages of Gen Z coming into student affairs. And you mentioned that we're seeing seeing different value set come forward from this generation. And one thing that I have noticed and very much appreciate is a focus on work-life balance from this generation.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:42]: And I don't mean work-life integration. I truly mean balance of people that are much more comfortable advocating for that balance and maybe shouldn't have to advocate for that balance because we need to do a better job of modeling it as the senior leaders. But the space that's occupied has also consistently been one that requires a master's degree to enter, which I think is an ongoing conversation in student affairs as a profession. But what else are you thinking about as you look at what is affecting new professionals and their retention into the field?

Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:18:10]: I think we have to, to listen deeply to our new professionals, which is a part of this task force. We haven't quite determined how, how we're gonna gather that information, but I think you, you know, right now my generation, which is the Gen Xers, are senior VPs and in these senior level roles, and we were horrible horrible at work-life balance, like horrible, like wasn't even a concept. And so we had a tendency to just grind ahead. Many of us were first generation. And so we just have this idea of forging ahead and then we're looking at the generations behind us and we're saying, well, why don't you just do the work that the way that we did it? But the way that we did it wasn't always as perfect either, right? Like we, my generation, I think opened up a lot of access to us, right? You know, and folks are calling us at 3 in the morning and 4, you know, and we are just forging right ahead. I'm really interested to see what new professionals need from us versus us trying to train them to be the way my generation saw it. And I think that the generations that follow us are just so amazing and so creative and really able to think about problems in a very different way. But if we keep beating them over the head saying, well, you're not doing it the way that I think you should do it, I think it's making them leave the profession.

Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:19:36]: Like, I think these generations are also very easy to just say, I don't have to do this, and, and, and will leave after a year or two. And what that means is there's a lot of talent that leaves the room. And leaves the space. And so I'm interested in this because I think at most college board level and president levels, I don't think they really recognize the crises that student affairs is in right now, just in terms of human capital and talent. And I think that has a large part to do with my generation just always being there, always being available. And I don't think they are thinking very deeply about the void that could be created coming behind. I also think I want the task force to focus on what are some kind of badging skills that we can present to new professionals. How do you deal with conflict? How do you deal with protest? How do you problem solve? How are you being a critical thinker? I envision maybe not the kind of new professional institute that I had when I came through, but something that's more real-time, more vibrant, where if I'm a supervisor that has a new professional that I don't think is really handling conflict well, they could go to some kind of workshop, virtual workshop, and almost get that skill set after, you know, 5 series or something.

Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:20:59]: I don't know what that looks like, but just some kind of way that new professionals can go or their bosses can send them to enhance whatever challenges they may be facing and, and do it in somewhere that's not necessarily, they gotta go and go to a conference, but something that's more accessible and that can really be more like a badging system, right? I think that's really, really important. Not a certificate, but just a badging. And you can choose that level of professional development as you go through your journey, your tenure. So that's what I'm thinking about in my head, but I really want the task force to pull together to give some good recommendations to our association.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:35]: I think our pod audience is more of that new to mid-level professional. And so I would imagine we have listeners who are really excited to hear that their voices might be able to be included in a project like this. Do we have any idea yet how I might be able to express interest in participating or ultimately apply for selection or something like that?

Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:21:53]: I'm gonna— I am meeting with some of the members at NASPA, so to begin to really talk about, so I don't have a definitive answer now, but we're meeting to, to really talk about the projects and the scope of the projects and what could be done. And I think what I would encourage is if I reach out to you as a new professional, 'cause you can't have a task force without new professionals on the task force. That will probably be what I can definitively say. I want to not have this task force just filled with senior and mid-levels who are going to provide direction. I really am looking for new professionals to serve on the task force as well. Now, the size of the task force, you're on a large task force, you can't get anything done, but it will be a good mix of new professionals on the task force.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:39]: And then your third arm is this inquiry into the new resurgence of interest for both HBCUs and for community colleges. Can you talk a little bit more about about what we're hoping to discover from this inquiry.

Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:22:50]: So what I want to see as an output of this is how our community colleges and members of HBCUs pulled even more deeply into the governance structures. And they each have roles on the board and the foundation board, right? You know, we have community college members on our board, but how are they really getting into the mainframe, the organizational structure of NASPA, besides just attending the conference? So sometimes I'll go to the conference and, you know, I'll see some of my colleagues I know very well, very talented, and they come to NASPA, they maybe do a presentation, but then they're not really in any of the governance structure. And I think that voice for community colleges, HBCUs is critically important. And so I wanna learn more deeply about how we are engaging them outside of just, you know, inviting them to the conference, right? What, what are the things that are needed for, from our association that helps to support them as they go through work that they're doing. And we're doing some work around that, like NASPA is definitely doing some work around this, but I wanna pull all of that together under a commission. And I think a commission really is charged with being very clear about that and what we need to do as an association to continue to support HBCUs and community colleges.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:24:09]: And kind of the same question here, if I'm currently working at a community college or an HBCU and this is piquing my interest, how do I express interest in being considered as a voice.

Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:24:19]: The one way that I can say the most is I am going to be looking for a co-chair, and I'm looking for the co-chair to be one from an HBCU and one from a community college. And so that would be the first thing that I reach out as looking for volunteers for that. And I have some idea around the community college. I know someone that's out there who is just really amazed. I worked with this person before. I won't put their name out there yet. I won't get ahead of myself. And then I have some ideas of some folks at HBCUs.

Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:24:49]: So for both of these initiatives, when I come a-calling, answer the call. That is probably what I could share the most.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:24:56]: Darryl, is there something that you would like the NASPA membership to know about you that is not on your resume, not in these initiatives?

Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:25:04]: I have 5 values that I think is critically important. I was actually doing a webinar. I was on a panel yesterday, a NASPA webinar with the Black Diaspora Knowledge Community. Community. So shout out to that. Shout out to Lisa and Miracle for pulling that together. And my colleagues, Dr. Younger, and for being on— serving on the panel.

Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:25:24]: My 5 values are knowledge, God, family, humility, and hard work. And those are the things that drive me every day, personally and professionally. And they're so intertwined for me. I don't distinguish between the 2. They all rely on one another. So much so that it's wrapped into like professional philosophy, which is good work stands. And I think for me, demonstrating good work is the culmination of all of these values working in sync. And I think it's so important to understand your value system because that really helps you to survive the times that we're in now.

Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:26:01]: When you hold your values, you know your values and they can help define who you are. It helps you to manage where higher ed is in this current space of new possibilities. I think it's critically important. For that. My husband and I just last week celebrated 32 years of union, and, and who would have known? We met in college, actually. I was a student at Georgia State and he was at Atlanta Metropolitan College. And so that has been phenomenal. Anybody that knows me knows I am a dad above everything.

Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:26:33]: So I have two wonderful boys, Obert and Delvin. They will be turning 16 in a few weeks.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:39]: Twins.

Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:26:39]: Twin boys, and so they are just learning to drive and doing all that. And for me, having children has just been an amazing opportunity and experience. And as an openly queer man, there was a time that I didn't think, you know, we would be able to have children, and now look at us, right? We have kids. And so it has been the joy of my life. I don't regret it one moment. I have some really phenomenal kids. They're getting getting ready to go on a— they're in the Junior ROTC and they're getting ready this weekend, hopefully if the weather holds, to go on this robotics tour. They're going through confirmation at church.

Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:27:16]: So I could talk all day long about my kids. Everybody knows that.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:18]: Best wishes for the driving journey. You gotta be, I think, a parent made of steel to get through that one.

Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:27:24]: I— that's all of my hair fell out.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:25]: Well, Darryl, I'm gonna transition us because we're talking about values into our theme questions for the season, which are on the value of student affairs. So these are questions that we've been asking all of our guests over the course of the season, last season and this season. The first one is, when you think about the value of student affairs, what comes to mind first and why?

Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:27:46]: What is important to me is that student affairs has to first understand that it has value. And I believe we've been spending too much time thinking, I'll be very honest, I think we often think we're second-class citizens in higher education, that we have this perception that other other aspects of the institution have more value. And so we've got to determine what that value is and how, more importantly, we articulate that value so that people not just continue to see us as problem solvers, but begin to really deeply see us as strategic thought partners. That's huge for me. And I don't think that our institutions always think of us as strategic thought partners. So I think knowing your value and what you bring to the table and being able to articulate what you bring to the table is very helpful.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:41]: Our second question, can you share a specific story or moment when you saw the value of student affairs come to life?

Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:28:49]: I hate to refer to such a dark period, but I think the value of when we were seeing the most, I believe, strategic partners was during the pandemic.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:59]: Yeah, I hear you on that.

Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:29:01]: And I know that that was a bad time, but I think that presidents and boards really saw the work that we do and how strategically we do the work, that we are able to gather data, that we make data-driven decisions, that our decisions aren't just in a snapshot way or roughshod way, that we really are very intentional about what we do. And I think I think, you know, we probably got the most kudos during that time than, than anyone else. And I think during that time, people saw that the impact that we have as a profession on our students as they navigate the campus isn't just in the residence hall, it's in the classroom, it's in their extracurricular activities, it's in the co-curriculum design. And so I think that fortunate global pandemic really placed us centrally in the mission. I think it was one of the clearest times that student affairs is a central, uh, integral part of colleges and universities' mission. I think that was most, on a global perspective, was the most significant time.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:11]: I feel like for all of us, time broke during the pandemic. And so I think we're also in a situation now where we are half a decade removed from that time, which means an entire generation of students removed from that time.

Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:30:26]: Absolutely.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:27]: So we've got some interesting work ahead of us on how we harnessed our value from then to apply it to now and to go forward, because the students we have now were in middle school during that era. So very, very different. And our final question in our theme is, what do you think student affairs needs to do to be better understood and better seen in today's educational environment?

Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:30:48]: So this really builds upon what you were just saying, right? The pandemic was almost a decade away and our memories are short-lived and it was a traumatic dramatic time. And so people want to put a lot of that behind. So we can't keep celebrating, right? We were great in the pandemic, right? So I think the best way to be able to do that is how do we tell the narrative of the impact of our work that isn't as qualitative as we've always relied on? You know, we are, we are a belly kind of profession, right? We, it feels good in the belly, right? And so we make, you make these decisions. And I think I was talking about this with a colleague at coffee this morning. I think that when we come to our boards and sometimes, and when we come to our cabinet-level tables, I think people don't always recognize how strategic and deliberate we've had to make a decision, that we are really strategically thinking about a decision. It is just not how we feel about the decision, but it really is how we've analyzed whatever was the problem. So what we've got to figure out how to do is how we turn this language of student success and tie it to the work of student affairs. And the best way that we can do that is through the development of legitimate KPIs and legitimate return on investments.

Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:32:08]: And so if we are saying, if you participate in student Greek life, you're going to be a more well-rounded student, well, now we have to demonstrate that. And we have to do it in a way that is through trend and longitudinal data. We just can't keep keep coming to the boards and to our cabinets with this snapshot kind of, this is what happened this semester, this is what happened with this particular incident. We need to be talking about and demonstrating more ability to show longstanding data because that's truly what board of trustees are looking for. They don't want you to talk about, but they don't want you to just focus on what happened in that semester. They wanna know how has has that problem been impacted over the last 3 years, 5 years, 10 years? And so I am very proud to say at Spelman, we, I think, oh my God, I'm so excited about this. I think we're on the cutting edge of being able to manage and demonstrate that of student success. For the last 4 years, I've led my team through looking deeply at what I call student success pathways, which are community belonging and wellbeing.

Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:33:19]: And that simply means if a a strong sense of belonging, they come to a place, they feel valued. If they also come and they're able to connect with other folks that reinforce that value, and then if they are ultimately able to navigate the whole spectrum of holistic wellbeing, these are all things that we do every day and that we control. I'm hopeful to present next year with some data. I just hired a data analyst. I got good word today that he will be starting February 2nd. Yay. And we are about to do some phenomenal work. So I am excited.

Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:33:54]: I'm telling everyone, keep your eye on student affairs at Spelman College because we are gonna give you a pathway that I think will make our profession very successful. And I'm excited to do that. And I'm excited to be able to do that as a member of an HBCU community.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:08]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:14]: Thanks, Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world, and there's a ton of things happening in NASPA. Just last week, you should have gotten an email if you are a current NASPA member inviting you to vote in the open volunteer leadership positions within the association. The email provided you with a custom link for your ballot, and it allows for you to be able to vote for any individual that is running for a volunteer leadership position, including the Board Chair position, Regional Leadership positions, positions and Knowledge Community leadership positions. Voting is open from February 5th to February 19th. All you have to do is, in that email, you can cast your ballot at any time by clicking on the link that states click here to cast your vote. I encourage you to review the candidate information as many times as you want to be able to get a better chance of understanding why people want to be in these leadership positions. This is a great opportunity for you to have your voice heard on who you want representing you in these volunteer leadership positions.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:19]: So have your voice heard today and make sure to vote. You can still attend the NASPA Annual Conference that's coming up March 7th through the 11th in Kansas City, Missouri. If you haven't registered yet, now is a great time to be able to join all of us attending in Kansas City, because I know Jill and I are really looking forward to being able to talk with all of you. As we mentioned in the opening episode for the season, we talked about the fact that we are going to be at the conference again, and we're going to have some specific questions that we'll be sharing with you in an upcoming episode so that you can think about it. Even if you can't attend, we'd love to have your voice connected with that specific— connected with those upcoming episodes. Again, the conference is March 7th through the 11th in Kansas City, and I hope that you'll be able to attend. If you see me walking around the conference, say hi. I would love to be able to meet people that listen and be able to hear some about your own experiences, not only with the podcast but just in general.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:36:20]: If you've not already heard about it, inside of the NASPA website is our NASPA Bookstore, and inside the NASPA Bookstore we have a ton of great books that have been written specifically for NASPA by NASPA members. And every once in a while, I love being able to share with you some of the different books that are out there. And one today that I'm going to share with you is called Dismantling Hazing in Greek Letter Organizations: Effective Practices for Prevention, Response, and Campus Engagement. This was written by and edited by Jason L. Merriweather and Associates. Dismantling Hazing in Greek Letter Organizations offers practical practical strategies to address the complexities of hazing culture and the challenges associated with recruitment and initiation in varying contexts. If you work with Greek letter organizations, this book is a must-read. So if you've never read this, I highly encourage you to pick up a copy for yourself.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:37:17]: You can find it in the NASPA Bookstore. Earlier this month, a follow-up brief was presented by NASPA on the top issues in student affairs. In the most recent brief that was released, a new analysis from NASPA's 2025 Top Issues in Student Affairs survey came out, and in it, it showed a clear rise in the prioritization of issues in the area of assessment and evaluation to demonstrate impact and inform decision-making. 5 of the overall top-ranked issues for the 2025 survey data fall within this area, pointing to institutional commitments to strengthen capacities to collect and communicate data to tell a more complete story about student experiences. This follow-up brief highlights practitioner insights about next steps, state policy trends, and NASPA resources all related to strengthening assessment and evaluation efforts across institutions. If you've not read this brief yet, I highly encourage that you do. Go to the NASPA website, go under under Research and Publications and down to Reports and Issue Briefs. And you'll find the Top Issues in Student Affairs Assessment and Evaluation Follow-up Brief listed right there.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:38:30]: Every week we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways. Because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the, the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself, where do you fit? Where do you want to give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association, because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:56]: Chris, thank you so much for kicking off this season with another great segment of NASPA World. We always appreciate you sharing with us what's going on in and around NASPA. And Daryl, we have reached our lightning round where I've got 7 questions for you in about 90 seconds.

Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:40:12]: Okay.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:13]: You're ready. You're ready. All right, here we go. Question 1, if you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:40:19]: Ooh, They Not Like Us, Kendrick Lamar.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:21]: That Super Bowl halftime show was epic.

Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:40:23]: Epic. He's my favorite artist.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:26]: Number 2, when you were 5 years old, what did you want to be when you grew up?

Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:40:30]: A pediatrician gynecologist.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:33]: Number 3, who's your most influential professional mentor?

Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:40:36]: I actually have what I call my ancestral mentor, which is Dr. Benjamin Elijah Mays. I love and follow his work and he's very influential. And then Laurie White has been phenomenal and Pam Whiteley have been just amazing people in my life.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:53]: Number 4, your essential student affairs read.

Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:40:55]: That's a good question. Right now I'm reading this really great book called The Turning Point by this author named Howell, and it's essentially, it's talking about how civil civilizations reboot themselves every 100 years. And it's just a really great critical read at this time because I think we are rebooting into a new civilization, and it's really helping to guide me through.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:14]: Number 5, the best TV show you've been binging lately.

Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:41:17]: Ooh, Abbott Elementary. Oh my God, that thing is hilarious. I love it. I try to catch it every Wednesday.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:22]: I took the WB studio tour a couple of years ago, and I got to go to the set, just like the exterior set. That was very cool. Number 6, the podcast you spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:41:33]: Okay, so I am a, a huge history nerd. And so there is this— it's actually out of Britain. It's this podcast that looks at the history of Europe. And I just finished listening to this really wonderful series on the rise of the Third Reich. That was just phenomenal. And so I'm really new to listening to podcasts, and I do it when I'm walking. I found that I can really lean in and glean information while also exercising. So yeah, that's my favorite right now.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:04]: Finally, number 7, any shout-outs you'd like to give, personal or professional?

Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:42:08]: My goodness. Of course, my good brother, Michael Christakis. That's my dude. We banter a lot, and it's been such an honor and privilege to work with him. Emilia Purnell has just been phenomenal. I look forward to working with her. And then it's just beyond that, I'm going to get in trouble. And so it's just all of the people that have come into my life.

Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:42:27]: There is one person I do want to give a shout out to, my girlfriend, Donna Lee, because she is so universally grounded.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:35]: Grounded.

Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:42:35]: And every time I'm in her presence, I don't care how disturbed I can be, she really calms me. And I just really love her. So shout out to Donna.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:44]: Darryl, it's been wonderful to get to know you a little bit better and to hear more about your vision for where NASPA will be going in the '26-'27 year. If anyone would like to reach you after we air this episode, how can they find you?

Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:42:55]: So you can find me on LinkedIn. I got off of Instagram, y'all. I couldn't take it. It was too much for me. Got tired of it, but I am definitely on LinkedIn and it's just real easy. Darrell Holloman. You can look me up and from there we can set up a time to talk or meet. Try to be very accessible.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:11]: Darrell, thank you so very much for sharing your voice with us today.

Dr. Darryl Holloman [00:43:15]: Great. Thank you.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:20]: This has been an episode of Essay Voices from the Field brought to you by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. Listeners. We continue to be so grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email us at [email protected] or find me on LinkedIn by searching for Dr. Jill L. Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions always.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:42]: We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton— that's me— produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

Welcome to Season 14 of "Student Affairs Voices from the Field," the essential podcast for higher education professionals eager to connect, learn, and grow! Hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton and Dr. Christopher Lewis, this season dives deeper into the evolving value of student affairs, exploring both the challenges and opportunities shaping our profession right now.

Right from the start, Dr. Jill Creighton and Dr. Christopher Lewis highlight what's in store: an impressive lineup of guests from across student affairs, "mini grand" opportunities at the NASPA annual conference, updates on strategic planning, and in-depth conversations about how NASPA is moving forward as an organization. If you want to stay in the loop on what's really happening in the field—and hear voices from every corner—this is the podcast to keep on your playlist.

Excitingly, the season kicks off with Dr. Darryl Holloman, the incoming NASPA Board Chair, who will discuss his inspiring "North Star Project" and vision for 2026-27. As Dr. Jill Creighton notes, this season is "quite a bit more NASPA as an organizational focus than we've had in [the past]," all while maintaining those meaningful interviews with practitioners you know and love. Longtime listeners will appreciate that the beloved theme—"the value of student affairs"—continues, now for the third time, as it transitions from fall to spring, building momentum and relevance as the profession evolves.

Whether you're tuning in for insightful strategy, conference updates, or authentic practitioner stories, you'll find inspiration and practical takeaways in every episode. And if you're heading to the NASPA Annual Conference in Kansas City, don't miss your chance to share your voice—Dr. Jill Creighton and Dr. Christopher Lewis will be on-site collecting mini-interviews!

Join the conversation. Subscribe, listen, and become part of a passionate community shaping the future of student affairs. [Student Affairs Voices from the Field] is where your story matters—tune in and be heard!

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:01]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:07]: Seasoned experts brought to you by naspa. We curate free and accessible professional development.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:12]: For higher education professionals wherever you happen to be.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:15]: This is season 14, continuing our conversation.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:18]: On the value of Student Affairs. I'm Dr. Jill Creighton. Sheher hers your Essay Voices from the Field Host Happy February, Chris Happy February.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:29]: Glad to be back in season 14.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:31]: It's 2026. We are just a couple of days from Super Bowl Sunday. As we're chatting today, I have a lifelong Seahawks fan, so it's hopefully going to be better matchup than the last time the Seahawks and the Patriots were in the super bowl together, but that remains to be seen.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:46]: You never know. And I think the Seahawks have a good chance because they have a good.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:51]: Team this year, knock on all sorts of wood. But here we are recording because we're really ready to talk about season 14. Season 14 is coming at you starting next Thursday, the 12th of February. Chris, what do we have in store for season 14? Wow.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:07]: We've got an amazing lineup of individuals from across the profession and we've got a number of really exciting things that we're gonna be talking about in regards to what's been happening in naspa. There's some specific conversations that we're gonna be having about strategic planning and some specific work group NASPA's been doing to really look at a number of different areas in the profession. We are going to be speaking with a number of different people at the conference this year and being able to bring their voices to all of you as well. There's some mini grand opportunities. There's a lot going on.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:41]: We're also kicking off our season with Dr. Darrell Holloman, who is the incoming NASPA Board Chair. We always love to feature the NASPA Board Chair as we head into our spring semesters. Can learn from Darrell on what he is hoping to do in his tenure as Board chair. Just a brief he's got a direction for us called the North Star Project, and I think you'll really enjoy listening to where the association is hoping to go in the 2627 year. I can't believe we're already saying 2627. I know we just started 2026, but we've also got a lot of things coming around in terms of how NASPA'S moving into the future. We've got our second year under Dr.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:16]: Parnell and her leadership as president, and I think NASPA's really starting to move and shake in some really interesting ways. So our season ahead is actually quite a bit more NASPA as an organizational focus than we've had in. But also we're gonna keep bringing you those rich dialogues with individual practitioners as we go along as well.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:34]: I'm really looking forward to this season. It should be an amazing season and I guess I'll put out a last call that, as we've said in the past, that if you have people that you wanna hear from in the future, send us an email savoicesaspa.org we would love to hear from you. We always love hearing from our listeners to be able to hear more about what you like, what you want more of, and to gain some perspective. So talk back to us. We'd love to hear more from you.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:59]: We have a colleague who hosts a different higher ed podcast and she liked to say talk to us, we talk back. So I think that's very applicable here. And we are also only a couple weeks away from Annual Conference in Kansas City, Missouri. Like previous years, Chris and I will be at the Annual conference collecting small interviews and hoping to feature your voices on questions related to the conference themes. So we will be moving about the conference with our mini recorders and hopefully if you find us, you'd be willing to share your voice. We'd love to feature you. We with all of that in mind, season 14 is going to be bringing another set of episodes that are focused on the value of student affairs. We loved that theme for the fall.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:37]: This will be our third time moving forward with a theme from fall to spring and we've heard that is a great format that you all as listeners are enjoying. So we're excited to keep it going forward. Chris, anything else on season 14?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:49]: No, just excited Excited to share this great season with you all and we're looking forward to a continuing with the amazing guests, but also the amazing conversations and continuing the dialogue of moving our profession forward once again.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:03]: We're planning to drop our first episode on Thursday, February 12th right in this feed. The Essay Voices from the Field feed on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, whatever podcast player you might have on your Android phone or you can also find us right on the NASPA website if you just look for Essay Voices or NASPA Podcast. We thank you so much for spending your time with us and we're so happy to bring you another great season. We will see you on the 12th.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:32]: This has been an episode of Essay Voices from the Field brought to you by naspa. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to be so grateful that you choose to spend your time with us.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:43]: If you'd like to reach the show.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:44]: You can email [email protected] or find me on LinkedIn by searching for Dr. Jill L. Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions always. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a five star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:12]: That's me, produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan, Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

How do public policies shape the work of student affairs professionals in higher education? This week on NASPA's Student Affairs Voices from the Field podcast, we explore just that. This week host Dr. Jill Creighton is joined by two seasoned experts: Diana Ali, Director of Policy Research and Advocacy at NASPA, and Dr. James Tyger, Assistant Vice President for Student Life at the University of Florida and Chair of NASPA's Public Policy Division.

This episode dives deep into the complex regulatory and legislative landscape affecting campuses today. Throughout the conversation, Diana and Dr. James Tyger illuminate why public policy should matter—not just for policy "nerds," but for every student affairs professional. Policy changes at state and federal levels often create a ripple effect, touching everything from compliance to student success initiatives. No matter your role, these shifts impact your work and the students you serve.

Key themes in the episode include:

• Major Policy Shifts: The guests detail dramatic changes in the Department of Education, including workforce reductions, agency restructuring, and the transfer of $33 billion in programs to other government agencies. These developments raise concerns about capacity and continuity in supporting states and institutions.

• Guidance and Compliance: With new Title VI and Title IX guidance, institutions must navigate both federal directives and state laws, especially regarding DEI and free speech. The episode tackles the resulting confusion and litigation, urging professionals to understand the difference between enforceable legal requirements and advisory guidance.

• The Value of Staying Informed: Listeners learn about the rich resources provided by NASPA's Public Policy Division, like the Policy Resource Hub, real-time legislative tracking, and regular webinars—tools designed to empower professionals to stay current and make informed choices.

The hosts stress that while change can be daunting, student affairs remains crucial to supporting students and fostering vibrant campus communities. The takeaway? Tune in to this episode for practical advice on adapting to policy changes, sharing your impact, and remaining grounded in your mission—even as the regulatory landscape evolves.

Whether you're navigating new DEI laws, Title IX updates, or simply want to be more proactive in your advocacy, this episode provides clarity, actionable strategies, and a renewed sense of purpose. Click play and join the conversation—your students' success depends on it!

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:02]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts brought to you by naspa. We curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you happen to be. This is season 13 on the value of student affairs. I'm Dr. Jill Creighton. She her hers your essay voices from the Field host Today on Essay Voices, we're bringing you a public policy conversation with two of our leaders from the Public Policy Division here at naspa. Our first guest is Diana Ali, who is currently the Director of Policy Research and Advocacy at naspa. Diana provides timely analysis of emerging policy issues at state and federal levels, creates tools for student affairs professionals to understand and respond to these issues, and organizes and supports NASPA advocacy and civic engagement efforts.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:52]: Since moving to the area, Diana has been a non profit advocate and is currently a mental health group facility in the Chicagoland community. She served as an AmeriCorps volunteer for two years and graduated with a Master's in Social Work and a Master's in Public Policy from the University of Chicago. Our Second guest is Dr. James Tyger, JD, who is the Assistant Vice President for Student Life at the University of Florida. With over 10 years of experience in Student Affairs, James is passionate about creating inclusive and supportive campus communities that empower students to thrive. Currently serving in the AVP role for Student Life at uf, James oversees the Student Engagement Team made up of the Offices of Campus Engagement, Community and Belonging, Sorority and Fraternity Life, and Student Legal Services. He's a proud double gator, having earned both a Ph.D. in higher education administration and a J.D.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:37]: from the University of Florida Levin College of Law. He also holds a Master of Education from Vanderbilt University and a Bachelor of Science in Human Resources Management from Virginia Tech. In addition to his role at uf, James is currently the Director for the Public Policy Division here at naspa, as well as serving on the Virginia Tech Student Affairs Advisory Council. Welcome to the podcast, James.

Dr. James Tyger [00:01:58]: How are we doing?

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:58]: And hello Diana. Glad to have you.

Diana Ali [00:02:00]: Hey everyone. Happy to be here.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:02]: This is our Public Policy episode as we're talking about the value of student affairs. We thought it was really important to continue to include that policy perspective in the student affairs conversation because there's so many shifts happening right now. We've done a specialty episode earlier this season on the OB3 impacts on federal financial aid for undergraduate and graduate students, but today I'm excited to bring you our current Chair of the NASPA Public Policy Division as well as our Director of Policy Advocacy and Research so that we can have a more broad based discussion about what's going on in the policy world affecting U.S. american higher education, and possibly by extension, other higher education industries across the world. So before we get into all of that though, we love to ask the question, how did you get to your current seat?

Dr. James Tyger [00:02:51]: Great question. Thanks for asking. I actually had an opportunity to get involved with NASPA Region 3. And so for over four years, I served as the Region 3 representative on the Public Policy Division and Region 3, of course, across the Southeast. So a lot of areas to reflect on in the public policy space. So really enjoyed that opportunity and to get to know folks and then eventually had the ability to move up and be the chair for the Public Policy Division for all of naspa.

Diana Ali [00:03:17]: Yeah, and I got a role at Naspa going on 10 years ago now when I was coming right out of grad school and I really wanted to get involved in the world of higher education. I hadn't worked in that landscape before. My background was more in community based work. But it was really interesting to me because the world of student affairs, I think combines issues related to social work, which is a background that I have, and also issues related to student success and wellbeing, which are both important to me. So ever since I've kind of like grown within the organization. NASPA is a really great organization for being able to like, pursue your interests and do what you like. And so my portfolio has really grown since I started.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:02]: Both of you have been involved with the Public Policy Division for many, many years now. That's how we all connected in the first place. And I'd love for you all to be able to share with our NASPA listeners, what is the difference between a division and a knowledge community? And what is the PPD all about?

Diana Ali [00:04:18]: So the difference between our divisions and our knowledge communities. And this has changed over the years, but one of the key differences is that our division chairs, that's James, has a seat on our NASPA board. So James has a say at our spring and winter board meetings. And that's a really important role. The caseies are obviously really important as well, but since we have so many of them, these are knowledge communities. So like subject matter experts in a certain area have much broader lens of what's going on within the association. And so there aren't a ton of differences between these groups. But I would say that representation on the board is a big one.

Diana Ali [00:05:07]: Though the Casey's do have representation on the board as well, just not every Casey director is represented.

Dr. James Tyger [00:05:14]: Yeah, and I think what I would Add to that, I think if we I had the opportunity to be the student government knowledge community co chair a few years back, and I think each of the knowledge communities have such a great opportunity to help build community. But when I think about the role of a division, it's more broad across the association, as opposed to many of our knowledge communities provide again, very specific communities, goals and different things that we're advocating for within the association. And so I think for the Public Policy Division more broadly, it's thinking through the entire state of our public policy arena. And so when we talk about what the PPD does, you know, we have representatives from each of the regions. We have, you know, folks that are both at large and also focused on, you know, let's say faculty or our small colleges as well, and thinking through the different impacts of policy across each of those areas. And so at some of the things that we're doing that I will share, you know, we're hoping to see folks at the annual conference. We'll have some different programmatic pieces, whether it be our town hall, our sponsors, sessions, opportunities just to get involved and hear more about what's going on across again, the state of higher education within the US and international.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:15]: So policy precon coming up, too.

Dr. James Tyger [00:06:17]: Yes.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:17]: All right, so let's dig into it. When we think about the Public Policy Division, what are we focusing on right now on behalf of NASPA members?

Dr. James Tyger [00:06:24]: I think the biggest thing that we're taking a look at is how do we keep our members educated and up to date on the different policy shifts that are occurring across the country and beyond at this point. So, you know, I think how are we encouraging folks to utilize the resources that NASPA provides? How are we providing webinars? We have one actually coming up this week, kind of a year in review, a state of kind of where we're at. And so I think those pieces, for me, how are we helping to educate folks to have the resources to know what's going on and then to make some choices about things that they maybe want to advocate for within, wherever they're positioned.

Diana Ali [00:06:57]: Yeah. And I would just add on to that that I think a key role of the Public Policy Division has been for a long time. And I think it's just as necessary in our current moment has been to really break down the mean behind public policy, focusing on foundational building blocks of, like, what public policy is. They've recently added this, like, policy 101 primer to all of the monthly newsletters, and this past one focused on the rulemaking process. Which I think is really important right now because those building blocks really help bring us toward clarity, which is something I'm always striving for. As we navigate the current landscape, we're.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:41]: Working to meet the moment. There are some brand new resources that are coming out for NASPA members. Some of them are incredibly rich with information. Some of them are going to be those primers. But why should public policy matter to the average student affairs professional who maybe isn't as nerdy about policy as the three of us are, or maybe just doesn't see policy intersect with their day to day work as much?

Diana Ali [00:08:05]: So I would say, and I've been thinking about this a lot as kind of we're in this cycle near the end of the year. I know it's January now, but as we're recording this, it's December. And I've been thinking a lot about kind of how we move forward. And I feel like this past year, I mean all of the shifts on the federal and state level really do impact student affairs folks at every level on the ground. And so I think even if somebody may not be feeling like their work is directly impacted by these like shifts in compliance or like funding changes or H R1 that you mentioned earlier, I think that we are going to see a trickle down effect where folks roles are going to be impacted no matter what kind of by these really drastic changes that we're seeing. And I also think that we can think about public policy in a lot of different ways. And so a daily interaction, interaction with students on the ground may not seem related to federal or state legislation, but it likely is. And so I think breaking things down, talking about definitions, like I was saying, that primer that's been added to the newsletter, sort of building apart the mythos around policies and processes, can help folks think more about policies as tools to get somewhere and a form of agency, which I think is really helpful.

Dr. James Tyger [00:09:42]: I mean, my response, Joe, would be that public policy is legitimately involved in every single aspect of what we do, no matter what level you're at. And that goes to how are we helping our students understand different policies, updates, loans, you know, what does it mean for us regarding things we can do, can't do, should do based on what we're hearing on the public policy front at the state, local, federal level. And so I think it really isn't every aspect of the higher education experience right now.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:05]: Let's run through the opportunities that NASA is providing currently for members to access policy resources. What do we got?

Dr. James Tyger [00:10:12]: Oh, we absolutely have the Public policy, the Resource Hub. Diana, do you want to talk a little bit about some of the opportunities that are in there?

Diana Ali [00:10:18]: Sure. So there are eight different components within the Policy Resource Hub. And so as part of my job I do a lot of state tracking. And so we have a whole section that is all of the legislation that we track. We have actually tracked 375 enacted bills over this past year relating to higher higher education. Those are broken down by region. So if you want to see what's going on in your region, you can look at all of the state based legislation in your region on the website and those are updated in real time. So that's a really great resource.

Diana Ali [00:10:52]: We also provide a bi weekly policy update. It's like a newsletter that really just gives a breakdown of what we think is most relevant to the profession of student affairs. And then we have a lot of kind of public policy resource essentials. We have recordings of our past webinar. We have some of those primer information that I was speaking to earlier relating to policy processes and all of the executive orders that we've seen brought forward earlier this year and so forth. And so there's a lot in there. We also have information divided both like as I mentioned, by state and then also by topic area. And so you have a lot of different ways to engage with the information based on your needs.

Diana Ali [00:11:39]: I really do encourage folks to check that out. Is kind of like a comprehensive resource your go to when you need it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:47]: And you can access that by logging into the NASPA member section of the NASPA website. It is behind that login wall. So if you're not yet a member and you're thinking about joining and this resource sounds exciting to you, this is a great reason to go ahead and come on into the NASA space. Let's think about public policy in 2025 as you might from like a Spotify wrapped perspective. The rap are all just coming out right now. As Diana mentioned, we're recording in December. We know you're not hearing this till January, but what are we looking at? We've got 375 tracked bills, but what else would go in our federal policy wrapped for this year?

Dr. James Tyger [00:12:21]: I think on my end the number one thing is certainly Department of Education that's very much in flux. So thinking about the workforce reductions, the different interagency agreements and some of the restructuring, we're seeing within the Department of Education what that means for really higher ed in general, but the overall state of education and kind of where those pieces will be. And so I think we're still waiting to see. I mean, I know we had an update within the last week or so that they're going to be hiring some folks back into OCR on a temporary basis and so seeing kind of what that impact will mean for some of the backlog and the priorities with the department. But I think those are definitely things we'll continue to be tracking into 2026 to try to figure out what impacts that will have on the overall field.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:12:57]: So I'm going to call that one department in flux and at least four other departments with interagency agreements.

Diana Ali [00:13:03]: Yeah. And I think that we can dig a little bit more into. I'm happy to talk a little bit more about some of the potential impacts that we' thinking about in relation to those interagency agreements that were the six that were just recently announced. And I think in a kind of wrapped review, I think I would be remiss if I didn't mention all of the guidance that has been brought forward around Title 6 impacting also Title 9. And so the kind of scrambled that institutions have had to make or have been trying to weigh how to make decisions around over the past year in relation to these guidance documents that have been coming out holding the precedent of federal level precedent, if not the law that folks have been trying to adjust to and think about how to implement and then the corresponding litigation that we've seen. Basically we've seen litigation around almost every executive order that came down earlier this year and throughout the year in relation to higher education. So we're seeing a lot of back and forth confusion around what will remain in place. And then we've also seen some redirecting in terms of funding.

Diana Ali [00:14:22]: Like we saw a redirecting of funds related to our msis this fall and we've seen some redirecting of funds for FIPSI and we've seen some delays in funding for TRIO programs. And so as we move into the new year of I'm thinking about what cuts have had to be made on the ground as folks have had to respond in real time, even if funding has eventually been dispersed, what kind of changes folks have had to actually make in response to those immediate delays and so forth. And so I feel like I'm painting a really negative perspective. But I think that in pairing it back to like how do we find clarity in this moment, I think it is important to like look back and see kind of the path of change that we've seen this past year.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:14]: Let's take those one at a time because there's a lot in there that I think our members can benefit from getting a little bit more detailed on. Let's start with the department and the transition of some of the functions of the Department of Education into other federal agencies. What's going on there?

Diana Ali [00:15:29]: So back in July, we saw, you know, and this has had impacts to our community college programs, which are connected to career and technical education, we saw a transference of CTE and adult workforce programs to the Department of Labor since then. And Secretary McMahon has kind of referred to that first interagency agreement, transferring CTE as the pilot interagency agreement. Since then, we've seen an introduction of six additional interagency agreements that are transferring $33 billion from the Department of Education to other agencies, the Department of Labor, the Department of the Interior, Health and Human Services, and the Department State. And so for all of like I said before, as with many executive actions over this past year, these IaaS are likely to and are in cases currently wrapped up in litigation. And so we don't know what will ultimately go into effect. In just looking at that first one that went into effect in July, moving CTE to Department of Labor, some of the main concerns that we've been thinking about has been one, a capacity issue. And so even just looking at the size of the portfolio of the Department of Education, the Department of Education makes up close to $190 billion. The Department of Labor, in turn, is only sized at about $8.68 billion.

Diana Ali [00:17:00]: And so moving these programs. So one of the IAAs that came out is moving close to $3 billion of post secondary into the Department of Labor, which is, as I said, sized at $8.68 billion. So there's a potential capacity issue there of moving this large of a portfolio into the Department of Labor. Does the Department of Labor actually have the capacity to successfully administer these programs and these grants? Another potential concern is related to the ability for these federal agencies to provide the technical assistance that the Department of Education has been provid Two states focus a lot on state legislation and state policy. Does the Department of Labor have the ability, the subject matter expertise, even though they are working with the Department of Education? But we know the Department of Education is now one third of the size that it was at the beginning of this year due to these recent reductions in force. And I could go on about this for a long time, but I've been looking a lot at this first example, this first interagency agreement, sort of as the example of what we might see. And we still have a Lot to learn. One of the potential gaps that we can see in something like this is a fracturing of where information is housed.

Diana Ali [00:18:25]: Federal agencies have historically provided consults and technical expertise to state lawmakers to help folks adjust and build funding formulas for the upcoming year. And so we're going to see potentially a trickle down effect of how this lack of technical assistance from the federal level could impact the formulation of state policies on the ground. And that in turn, I think will definitely impact our institutions and students.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:56]: Technical assistance piece, I think is really critical because I know when we were really focused on Title IX as the most prominent federal issue and clery compliance, the technical phone calls that institutions were making were extremely helpful to get clarity from regional OCR offices or other regional federal department offices where you could actually pick up the phone and, and maybe talk to a federal professional or also just form a longer standing kind of professional relationship with a professional in those agencies. And I'm aware that a lot of those relationships have shifted for the last year because people have moved on with different jobs. So that's definitely a real impact. James, any commentary on this?

Dr. James Tyger [00:19:36]: Yeah, I just want to acknowledge, I think, just the different philosophical shifts that this administration is kind of bringing as they approach this. And so, you know, what you're seeing is really this belief that there should be a shrinking of federal oversight in the education space. So, you know, whether that means you put things more back towards the states or whether you ship things into the private sector, but really a belief that there should be less federal regulation. And so, you know, I think as we kind of see some of these shifts, while they may be surprising when we think about decades worth of maybe the way that we've interacted within the education arena at the federal level, I don't know that necessarily. Philosophically, this was a surprising shift for many of us that are tracking what we might expect from this administration, their priorities, and they've been very public in kind of framing their priorities and that belief that they really do want to shrink the size and the footprint within the Department of Education. And so I think this is kind of the realization of that.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:28]: Let's move on to the new guidance letters that came out around Title 6 and Title 9. For those who haven't been tracking them as closely, what are the big highlights of what was changed or newly introduced?

Diana Ali [00:20:40]: So the guidance letters impacting Title 6. There was a guidance letter that came out in the spring connected to diversity, equity and inclusion and detailing what categories counts as DEI and how that would in turn count as a violation of Title six. And then that came out through the Department of Education. There was another one that came out this past summer through the Department of Justice, which further clarified and created potentially additional restrictions that was detailing that anything used as a kind of race proxy, as it was defined, would also constitute a violation of Title six. And so this could ultimately lead to institutions in losing their federal education funding. But what has been important as these guidance documents have come forward has been that we've clarified these are guidance documents only. And so these are an interpretation of the law. And these don't hold the full effect of the law necessarily, though institutions have obviously had to consult with their legal teams and make decisions.

Diana Ali [00:22:00]: I think, as I was saying, about how to interpret these guidance documents and what to do. And this is on top of a good handful of states having already enacted legislation that would restrict DEI related programs on campuses since 2022. And so we know that this has had huge impacts for the world of student affairs, had impacts rel to how jobs are being structured, but then also how we're even thinking about the work of student success. And so I think that we're going to continue to think about and analyze those impacts down the line. And I'm really curious to hear about your thoughts on these as well, James.

Dr. James Tyger [00:22:48]: Yeah, you know, I think the title VI guidance, when it came out in particular, I think at recent count we have 29 states that have passed some form of anti DEI legislation. And so for many of our states, this isn't necessarily new guidance, but I do think for some that certainly expanded the scope of who it may apply to. And so I think a lot of folks had a lot of questions. You know, I think one of the things immediately that came up was some of the guidance around first gen and kind of the perception if folks were fronting or hiding behind, let's say, a first gen banner and what does that mean related to the guidance? And so I think it really created a lot of space where folks need to take a step back and think through what does this guidance mean while it is is guidance not necessarily the law? I do think you you get in some questions around what happens if they do freeze federal funds while you're under investigation for something that may be tied into some of that guidance. And so I think it certainly has created a lot of concern for folks that maybe weren't in a place that they were one of those states already navigating this. And so I think for me, those are the pieces. I also think the tension still does exist between Title 6 and the First Amendment. And so thinking about kind of what that looks like as we work our way through some of the situations that may be concerning and very hard for administrators and many of our members to really navigate on the today, we know.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:24:00]: That some of our Public Policy Division members are already in those states that have had these laws passed for a couple of years. And then we have many, many professionals who are facing this new type of compliance for the first time. Any advice for people that are looking at this type of legislation and going, okay, we're going to have to change the way that we practice?

Dr. James Tyger [00:24:17]: I mean, I think the number one thing that we've really had to evaluate is at the end of the day, you need to be in compliance with the law. And so I think for us in Florida, that law has been very clear. And so, so making sure that we understand what we need to do to be in alignment with the expectations from the state are things that we've had to do. And so I do think for wherever you're positioned, it's really challenging and some folks are going to want to maybe do things that aren't in alignment with that legal requirement. And so I think they really need to take some time to reflect on that piece. But I think there is a big difference though, between the legal requirement and again, let's say, the guidance. And so as folks on their campuses may not have the legal guidance, but only are the legal implication, but only the guidance, they can really take a step to think through. Okay, well, what do we want to do if it's in a gray space? So I think that would be the number one thing, though.

Dr. James Tyger [00:25:01]: But really reflecting, make sure you're in compliance with what's required from your state.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:04]: Let's go to that Title 9 guidance. What do we have there that might be new or maybe changing the way that we've implemented Title ix? And we know that this has been forever changing since at least I think, 2001.

Diana Ali [00:25:16]: Well, and when I said guidance, I think really what we've seen has been a rollback of Title IX. So we have our prior Title 9 rule from 2020 that's currently in place. The rule that was in 2024 has been rolled back through litigation and also through executive action. And then we've also seen this Special Investigations Task Force on Title nine that been put together on the federal level. And I think when I'm thinking About both Title 6 and Title IX, I'm thinking about how we've had, as James has spoken to these federal level investigations as targeting that has been somewhat confusing around what actually counts as a violation of something. And so I think it's more when I think of Title IX right now I'm thinking about the work of that task force and the freezing of funds of certain institutions that are perceived to be in violation of Title ix. And I'm also thinking about our upcoming Supreme Court term in which we'll see some cases that will be argued and hopefully decided by June relating to the Equal Protection Clause and, and a Title nine as well.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:32]: We've talked about some of these federal things. Let's talk about the states as well, any states, as you track, some of these bills that stand out as kind of being higher in terms of their level of legislative actions related to higher education or ones that maybe are more dormant.

Diana Ali [00:26:47]: So one thing that I'll touch on, I was thinking about this as James was detailing some of the institutional perspective related to that Title 6 compliance, is that we've seen a number of states in the past several years enact legislation, sometimes as a part of their kind of comprehensive DEI related legislation. We've seen states enact legislation requiring certain levels of intellectual diversity and free speech to become a requirement of the campus experience. And so Iowa, for example, has passed legislation requiring the creation of a center on intellectual diversity. And so I think that is, that is an issue that I want to raise because there's sort of a countervailance or there's, there's some confusion that I've heard from members around this need to change or end programs relating to dei, but then also to build these programs related to speech and dialogue and confusion about why they're being these issues are being kind of paired together. I think that one great resource that we have at NASPA is work that we've done in creating issue guides for deliberative dialogue. We actually have one on navigating free speech. And I know that, you know, that's just one tool that doesn't help with the creation of an entire program or center. But there are tons of organizations out there focused on dialogue and deliberation and civic engagement and civilization.

Diana Ali [00:28:27]: So I think that if folks are looking for resources and are tasked with creating those programs, that the resources are certainly out there.

Dr. James Tyger [00:28:35]: And Jill, I'll say, you know, specifically, I think Florida and Texas are two states that are kind of at the forefront of some of the shifts in the higher education arena. And I think a lot of our colleagues in different states are kind of looking and benchmarking off what those states are doing. And, you know, I think it's, it's easy to think like, oh, that's whatever state, and they're working through whatever just for their own state. But the reality is these different governments and states are going to be benchmarking off each other and things that they think are impactful and making a difference, and then they're going to wind up showing up in other states as well. And so I think for me, I continue to kind of track what Florida and Texas are doing and seeing kind of what that means as it ripples out into some other spaces as well.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:13]: James, great point that we're seeing a lot of activity coming out of Florida and Texas. For our colleagues in Texas, we believe that you're entering a non legislative year, so you have a year to focus more on what we see coming out of Florida and other states that might get more active. But Texas state legislature doesn't meet again until 2027. So they've got a lot of time to create and watch, observe and make changes. So we'll see what happens. We've talked a lot about these changes. And one thing that I've been trying to be cognizant of is that just because it's changing doesn't necessarily mean it's negative for higher education. And I think that's an important space for all of our minds to occupy.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:50]: We're going to have to work differently, but that doesn't necessarily mean that our mission changes. We're still supporting students. We're still creating the engagement and vibrancy in our campuses on an everyday sort of basis. So thinking about that, how can our professionals stay engaged with public policy and then also maintain the mission that we're doing on our campus, I think continuing.

Dr. James Tyger [00:30:11]: To find opportunities to stay up to date on what's going on and I think also to see what are the areas of interest from the policy decision makers. So if we hear things like experiential learning and skills based on based education and the way we are contributing that are really important, well, those are things that student affairs folks do a tremendous job with. So how do we find, you know, ourselves better aligned with the areas of priority and still understand the value and community and the other things we do within our work? I think that's an area my team and I have really been focused on. But I think as a profession, we can do a really great job and being educated on the things that folks are prioritizing and again, how we align with that.

Diana Ali [00:30:49]: Yeah, and I think that as I mentioned earlier, while we're in, in this space, of ambiguity. I continue to go back in my work of looking and grounding myself in what we do know. And so I think staying abreast of the current time in the policy process that we're in, as you mentioned, Jill, knowing whether or not our state is in session, connecting with a national association like NASPA or many of the others that take part in state based or in local policy advocacy work and also at the federal level, you know, staying open to kind of where we are in the process. So even though we're super delayed in Having finalized our FY20 appropriations, we can, you know, think about the expected timeline. We're coming into January now, and so we're going to see our presidential State of the Union, we're going to see our presidential budget proposal, we're going to see some regulatory movement. And so just staying grounded in the timeline and the cycle and the moment we are in the policy making process I think helps bring me clarity and helps me stay engaged and plugged in.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:07]: Let'S get into our theme questions for the season. We've been asking all of our guests the same three questions on the value of student affairs. And our first question is when you think about the value of student affairs, what comes to mind first and why?

Dr. James Tyger [00:32:20]: I think for me it's our impact on the student experience. I think that's been a constant throughout all of this. And I alluded to this a bit previously, but thinking about how are we aligned in experiential learning, how are we aligned with the skill development? These are things we've always been in alignment with as a field, often struggle on how do we effectively tell our story and now more than ever we have to be more effective and how do we convey the key things we've always been as not just an extra, but we are an essential part of a student's experience and their education and ultimately helping them to holistically develop into the effective graduates and successful alumni that we know we have an obligation to help with. And so I think for me, that's the part that I keep coming back to as I think about our value in this era. It's more how do we really lean in to those aspects where these expectations are, in particular regarding some of the different skills and holistic development that we've always been really critical in.

Diana Ali [00:33:14]: I love that response, James. And I'm thinking a lot about a recent NASPA report that came out on the humanization of student affairs. And at the beginning of the report, authors define the distinction between value and worth, indicating that worth is where we see that learning component. And while his value might point directly to those ROIs on credentials. And I think that student affairs professionals really contribute to that worth of higher education, like James said, like contributing to the holistic student experience, which actually is what helps an individual stay plugged in throughout their lifetime within the workforce. And so I think in my experience, my 10 years at NASPA, I've seen time and time and time again as how student affairs professionals are truly the ones operationalizing policies on the ground because they're hearing those stories directly from students. So when I think of the value of student affairs, I think of the thousands, dozens of NASPA members that I've interacted with over the years and heard their stories of how they've supported students throughout their college process, moving toward graduation. And I think that those moments and those interactions, you know, stick with students.

Diana Ali [00:34:37]: And so that worth element is really important here.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:40]: And you referenced recent NASPA report, and that report was the Human Dimension of why Student Affairs Matters, co authored by Dr. Ana Gonzalez, Dr. Lori Reaser, and Dr. Michelle Murray. If you want to learn more about that report and how to utilize its resources, you can find that on the NASA website. But also from our December 4th podcast episode, it was a really, really rich one. I loved that one. Our second question is, can you share a specific story or moment when you saw the value of student affairs come to life?

Dr. James Tyger [00:35:06]: I have two things to come to mind as I think about that question. The first is going to be, I always think about the moments with our students who are truly struggling, whether that be with mental health or they got injured or, you know, they're navigating a death in the family, think, those are always the moments that I feel. Our field, we have folks that really step up and help our students to navigate through those really challenging moments, but to really help them to grow the resilience needed and have what they're going to need to be successful in navigating things like that that pop up throughout their lives. But the other side of that is we just had the NASA board meeting in Washington, D.C. and I got a chance once we wrapped that, to meet with a few of our alumni that I have not seen in a minute. And when I think about the power of community and the power of relationships that we are able to over our careers and the impact of this experience, seeing those alumni and what they're able to do and how they remain connected to our institution and to the folks that they work with in student affairs, I think really speaks to the Value we bring in those long term relationships with folks. And so I think those are the two pieces. It's that help with our students that are really struggling.

Dr. James Tyger [00:36:09]: But then those long term relationship pieces I think are both really critical.

Diana Ali [00:36:13]: Yeah. And I would say that kind of similar to my answer to your last question, I think that it's the specific stories that I've heard over the years, talking to folks at our various conferences and through focus groups and so forth. I'm just always so surprised at the lengths that professionals will go to truly understand the needs of a student. The very like nuanced particular individual needs and work within the administrative system to connect that student to the services that they need. And so that connection piece, that on the ground connection piece has really been where I've seen it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:53]: And our final question in our theme for the season, what do you think student affairs needs to do to be better understood and better seen in today's educational environment?

Dr. James Tyger [00:37:02]: I talked about this a little bit ago, but I think we really need to be able to show our impact in language that resonates with our decision makers. And so that's kind of, to me, intertwined with our storytelling. How do we proactively tell the story of our impact and how we are aligned with career readiness, we're aligned with retention, we're aligned with overall wellness and creating a sense of belonging, community for our students and helping them develop the skills they need to be able to replicate that once they graduate as well. Because I think so often our field is known as, oh, there's a problem. Okay, we are problem solvers, but they don't always hear the positive stories and the other pieces that we're doing and making an impact on every single day on our campuses and especially on the skill side of things. And so I think kind of reclaiming that narrative a bit and thinking through how we also make sure that it's not just a bonus extra, like we're not just here creating fun little events. But there's really important, important work that our students need to be those holistic, well rounded individuals that are going to be successful alumni and successful employed graduates once they are no longer with us.

Diana Ali [00:38:08]: Yeah, I completely agree. I want to say ditto to James Tyger's answer to that question. I think that, you know, student affairs needs to contribute to the data story. Those stories, those interactions with students are all data points that to build systems around to share up through to policymakers. And I think that we can always be better at that, at sharing the data, especially when we're in this moment where some of the story may becoming lost or fractured and so forth at the federal level and so those of us on the ground that can do something, this is really a great, great time to do that.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:56]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:39:01]: Thanks Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world and there's a ton of things happening in NASPA this spring. In the Learning portal for naspa, there is a new certificate that you can take part in. The Informal Resolutions Certificate, which is happening in spring 2026 will happen between February 2 and March 6 of 20202026 Title IX regulations require training for Title IX coordinators, investigators and decision makers Campuses are already implementing a wide variety of informal processes and it's vital that institutions provide proper training to use informal systems in Title IX matters. This eight hour training includes three asynchronous video modules and one four hour live synchronous session in which participants will engage in informal resolution practices, practice sessions, and realistic scenarios to develop core informal resolution skills. Attendance during the live session is mandatory for completion. Some questions that this training considers includes how should campuses ensure fair processes for both parties when utilizing informal resolution in Title IX cases? Who should be responsible for conducting informal resolution options and what skills do these persons personnel need? What options do institutions have to deliver informal resolutions? What are the potential benefits and challenges of different forms of informal resolution and what are the promising practices and practices to avoid? Join Peter Lake and Christine Goodwin to explore these and other issues related to conducting informal resolution in Title IX cases. Peter Lake is a higher education law and policy expert and a past professor of alternative dispute resolution.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:40:43]: Christine Goodwin is a former higher education administrator and trained mediator to explore these and other issues. This eight hour training includes three asynchronous video modules and one four hour live required synchronous session. Participants will participate in informal resolution practice sessions with realistic scenarios to develop core informal resolution skills. You can find out more by going to the NASA NASPA [email protected] In case you missed it Back in November, NASPA released a 2025 Top Issues in Student Affairs Follow Up Brief on Technology and Digital Innovation. Technology is rapidly transforming higher education, bringing both new opportunities and complex challenges for student affairs leaders. This new brief expands on the Technology and Digital Innovation section of the 2025 Topics Issues in Student affairs report, offering insights from VPSAs on navigating AI, cybersecurity, and digital ethics. Explore field examples and actionable strategies to strengthen digital fluency, data protection and cross campus collaboration in this powerful new brief. You can find out more on the NASPA website.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:41:56]: Have you had a chance to check out the newest issue of the Journal of Student Affairs Research and Practice? The vision of the Journal of Student Affairs Research and Practice is to publish the most rigorous, relevant and well respected research and practice, making a difference in student affairs practice. JSARP especially encourages manuscripts that are unconventional in nature and that engage in methodological and epistemological extensions that transcend the boundaries of traditional research inquiries. The latest issue looks at a number of different issues as you look look at issues such as Title 9, Racial Battle Fatigue among Black College Students, Student Affairs Attrition, the Invisible Middle Latino Men in Higher Education, and more. This journal, along with all of the journals within NASPA are free for NASPA members and you can access any of them at any time by going to the NASPA website and clicking on Publications. I highly encourage you to check these out because all of them will provide you with cutting edge research and updates on new things that you need to be aware of in the work that you're doing on a daily basis. Every week we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways. Because the association is as strong as its members and for all of us we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with the knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the Association.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:43:33]: And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself where do you fit? Where do you want to give back? Each week we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might align for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the Association. Because through doing that all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:44:27]: Chris, thank you so much for bringing us back into 2026 with an incredible NASPA World segment. We really appreciate you continuing to keep us updated on what's going on in and around NASPA and James and Diana. We have reached our lightning round. So I've got seven questions for you in about 90 seconds. Are we ready to do this?

Dr. James Tyger [00:44:46]: Let's do it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:44:47]: All right, question one. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

Dr. James Tyger [00:44:51]: Oh, my gosh. This would be very hard for me because I am not that kind of high energy, but I'm gonna go with golden from K Pop Demon Hunters.

Diana Ali [00:44:58]: That is perfect. I'm gonna go with the same answer I've been saying for entrance music for years, which is Kiss from a Rose by Seal.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:05]: Number two, when you were five years old, what did you wanna be when you grew up?

Dr. James Tyger [00:45:08]: An astronaut.

Diana Ali [00:45:09]: Why not author?

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:10]: I just learned that you can go to Adult Space Camp James in Florida. So you can still make that dream come true.

Dr. James Tyger [00:45:15]: You can.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:16]: Number three, who's your most influential professional mentor?

Dr. James Tyger [00:45:19]: Shout out to Dr. Sarah Cunningham at Tulane.

Diana Ali [00:45:21]: Definitely Shout out to Terry Hines, who was my first boss at naspa, and.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:26]: I'll say, hi, Terri. I know we haven't spoken in a long time, but she was such a great, warm, welcoming presence when I first joined the ppd. Number four, your essential student of peace affairs read.

Dr. James Tyger [00:45:35]: I tell this to my law class all the time, but it's going to be the US Constitution.

Diana Ali [00:45:39]: You Are a Data Person by Dr. Amelia Parnell.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:42]: Number five, the best TV show you've.

Dr. James Tyger [00:45:44]: Been binging lately, Blurbus Friends.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:46]: Number six, the podcast you spent the most hours listening to in the last.

Diana Ali [00:45:49]: Year, the Daily what a Day, which is a crooked media podcast.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:53]: And finally, number seven, any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional?

Dr. James Tyger [00:45:57]: I'm giving a shout out to Diana. What a lovely time.

Diana Ali [00:46:00]: Okay, well, I was thinking to give a shout out to my brother, so. I'm sorry, James.

Dr. James Tyger [00:46:05]: I'll survive. I'll survive.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:07]: Thank you both for sharing your policy expertise today. I know that you two both balance your knowledge of general higher education student affairs with a focus on policy. And I know our members will have benefited greatly from digging into some of the specifics today. If anyone would like to read you or the PPD after this episode airs, where can they find you?

Dr. James Tyger [00:46:25]: J Tyger Gmail?

Diana Ali [00:46:26]: You can find me at D A l I or daliaspa.org thank you both.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:32]: So much for sharing your voice with us today.

Dr. James Tyger [00:46:34]: Thanks, Jill.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:35]: Thank you.

Diana Ali [00:46:35]: Thank you.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:40]: This has been an episode of Essay Voices from the Field, brought to you by naspa this show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to be so grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email us@sa voicesaspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for Dr. Jill L. Creighton. We welcome your feedback and you your topic and guest suggestions always. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a five star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:47:17]: This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton. That's me, produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan for Clint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

On the latest episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field, Dr. Jill Creighton sits down with Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson, the trailblazing President of Connecticut State Community College (Manchester, Middlesex, and Asnuntuck), for an inspiring conversation that's sure to resonate with higher education professionals everywhere.

From Student Affairs to the Presidency

Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson shares an authentic, winding journey to leadership that began much like many in student affairs: as an "overly involved" undergraduate seeking belonging. Coming from a multiracial, first-generation background, student affairs became a hub for discovery, community, and professional love—and ultimately, a lifelong calling. What's striking is Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson's deep commitment to social justice, equity, and access, themes that have been woven throughout his career—across four-year research universities and community colleges alike.

Why Community Colleges Matter

A central theme is the vital, often under-recognized, role of community colleges. Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson highlights their generational impact: "We're not just transforming one life, but generations to come." Community colleges are bastions of second chances—for veterans, ESL learners, first-generation students, parents, and non-traditional learners. The conversation delves into how these institutions can be life-changing, especially for historically marginalized populations.

Student Affairs: The Essential Connector

If you've ever grappled with explaining the value of student affairs, this is the episode for you. Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson argues the core value lies in fostering a sense of belonging—for both students and staff. Especially at community colleges, student affairs professionals often play generalist roles, bridging academics, crisis response, and holistic support with compassion and ingenuity.

The episode explores the complexities presidents face, balancing limited resources, compliance obligations, and the profound desire to advocate for students' needs. Listeners gain rare insights into how institutional leaders make tough decisions, and how student affairs voices can drive real change.

Advocacy, Research, and Representation

A significant part of the episode covers Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson's research and writing around marginalized identities. His work brings visibility to queer and trans students, students of color—and pushes for actionable change in the face of societal headwinds.

Why Listen? Whether you're an aspiring leader, a student affairs professional, or someone passionate about equity in education, this episode offers valuable wisdom, empathy, and actionable advice. Hear first-hand how Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson blends identity, experience, and advocacy to shape the future of higher ed.

Tune in and be inspired—your student affairs journey will thank you!

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:02]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts brought to you by naspa. We curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you happen to be. This is season 13 on the value of student affairs. I'm Dr. Jill Creighton, she her hers your Essay Voices from the Field host here on Essay Voices. It's always such a pleasure for us to welcome anyone who's serving in a college or university president role, especially when they've come up through student affairs pathways. So today it's our Honor to welcome Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson Johnson, he or they who is a seasoned educational administrator, best selling author, social justice educator and advocate who has dedicated his career and life to education reform, LGBTQ advocacy, economic justice and racial justice.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:50]: Joshua serves as the President at Connecticut State Community College, Manchester, Middlesex and Asnuntuck. He previously served as Provost in and Vice President of Academic affairs at West Valley College, Vice President of Student Services at the College of San Mateo, Dean of Equity and Student Services at American River College, Assistant Dean and Director of the Multicultural center at the University of Wisconsin, Madison, and the Director of the LGBTQ Student center and Women's center at the University of California, Santa Barbara. He's also served in adjunct faculty roles at Binghamton University, the University of Wisconsin Madison, Semester at sea, CSU Long Beach, San Diego State University, USC and Concordia University, Portland. His social justice work has led him to become a best selling author with his book Be Beyond Surviving From Religious Oppression to Queer Activism, which was also ranked as number three on Book Authority's 20 Best Selling LGBTQ Activism Books of All Time. Joshua also published Authentic Leadership, Queer People of Color in Higher Education, and Queer Trans Advocacy in the Community College. Joshua received a doctoral degree in Adult and Higher Education and LGBT Studies from Northern Illinois University, a Master's in Social Sciences focused on student affairs and Diversity from Binghamton University, a Master's in Marketing from the University of Alabama, and a Bachelor's in Business from the University of Alabama. Joshua served on the Board of Directors for the association of California Community College Administrators, or acca, and was the founding Chair of the Equity and Social Justice Committee. Joshua previously served as the VP for the Board of the Sacramento LGBT Center.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:16]: NASPA has been a special place for Joshua and he previously served as the Chair of the Multiracial Knowledge Community, a Regional Representative for the Asian Pacific Islander Knowledge Community, Member at large for the International Education Knowledge Community, and as an Editor for the Journal of College and Character, and if you'd like to learn more about Joshua you, you can find their [email protected] Joshua welcome to Essay Voices.

Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:02:38]: So happy to be here, Jill. Thanks for having me.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:41]: It's a rare treat that we get to have a president on the show, especially a president who's come through the pathways of student affairs like your journey has taken you. And we love to always start our episodes by asking our guests, how did you get to your current seat?

Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:02:54]: I don't even know if I ever thought, oh, I want to be a college president or anything like that. I started out as one of those, of course, like overly involved young student affairs students who kind of never, never left. I think, you know, for me, as a first one in my family to go off to university, I was terrified. And the thing that I do when I'm terrified, I overly prepare. And part of that was doing everything I could on campus because I was so afraid I wouldn't know what to do or how to get along. And finding social spaces within student affairs clubs and employment and extracurriculars and leadership really helped me find who I was and find purpose and help other young students. And then that kind of continued. And so most of my career has been in student affairs and higher education.

Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:03:37]: I took a one year gap and worked in fashion marketing and quickly thought, hmm, I think higher ed's for me. And I spent probably the first almost 15 years at large, mostly research one universities, and then made the pivot to community college as that aligned a little bit easier for me to do equity social justice work in the ways that were meaningful to me and with larger populations who are more likely to be at a community college than a highly selective universities. I made that pivot, I think it was about eight years ago now and have had the opportunity to do a couple of student affairs like a dean of student services and equity and then a vice president of student affairs. And then I got pulled over to the provost side and was able to kind of dig a little deeper into academic affairs and this opportunity came up where I get to lead three community college campuses in Connecticut. I'm four months in and so far it's everything I hoped it would be. So it's been exciting so far.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:32]: Well, that's incredible to be a new president as well, coming out from the idea space as well as from the student affairs space. Joshua, you mentioned that community college has really spoke to you and your mission in terms of the students you could serve and the impact that you could have. What's different in that community college space from that highly selective four year. That really drew you that way.

Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:04:51]: Yeah. I mean, and I'm not sure I don't know your background, Jill, like, if you ever did anything with community college. But I did not in most ways. So my family, I'm the youngest of five kids. My dad's the white military veteran. My mom's an immigrant from South Korea. And I never really realized it, but in some way, everybody in my family engaged in community college at Mississippi Gulf Coast Community College on the, you know, Gulfport, Biloxi, Mississippi. My dad as a veteran coming back in the early 70s.

Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:05:21]: My mom is an ESL student. And then each of my siblings went to community college. First for me as the youngest, I went off to a university, but I kept. Went back for summers and did community college to save money that I'd work all summer and pay off my tuition in that way too, because I was pretty much on Pell grants, scholarships, full financial aid, and trying to find ways to save money as much as possible. But I never really thought about college as a career after that. I really loved being at a university and specifically the identity development part of being in a kind of core student affairs and how they develop young folks. And that was fun for me. As I moved through kind of the traditional residence life path of ra, then hall director, then assistant director, I started to think about identity a lot more and who was included and who was not.

Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:06:09]: So I pivoted to doing director of LGBT center, director of multicultural Center. And I think the first time I thought, like, community college could be a space for me, I was at University of California, Santa Barbara. I originally got hired as the director of the LGBT center, which they call the Resource center for Sexual and Gender Diversity. And then, you know, this was 2010 budget cuts in California. Then I got asked to be the director of the non traditional student center. I was like, what is that? It pretty much served older students, parenting students, veterans at the beginning. And these were mostly students coming to UCSB from California community colleges and starting to hear more about their struggles, their life paths, and really that community college space, giving people that opportunity for a second chance who maybe didn't have a great high school experience, didn't know how to navigate applying to universities financially was not a possibility. And seeing how those community college experiences gave them that opportunity to go to a top 10 public school like UCSB or, you know, Berkeley or Stanford, some of these schools, and I was like, wow, it really resonated with kind of this underdog cheerleader that I've always been Some reason.

Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:07:22]: And that really spoke to me, was exciting about that. So I did, you know, one more kind of, you know, big job at University of Wisconsin Madison, where that was 50,000 students, huge. And then after that I was doing a job search and started to really prioritize trying to move into community college world. And I got to be the dean of equity programs at a large community college in Sacramento. That was most of my job, was serving populations who've been historically excluded in higher education or even when they do go to a university, they're marginalized at the university. So that was a really exciting opportunity for me to do that. It was challenging going from big four year to community college, but once I kind of figured out that rhythm, I knew it was kind of where I was meant to be.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:08:03]: You asked if I had any experience with community college, not as a professional, but as a student. I did summers at the local community college near where my family lives. And then also my father had always emphasized the importance of what he would term junior college from the era that he went to school because he did two years at junior college before transferring to the University of Washington. And he really has talked about how the junior college experience helped prepare him both academically and socially to go to that four year and be independent. And this was a couple decades ago.

Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:08:33]: Love that. I mean, and it really is, and we often say this in the community college world, that we're not just kind of giving an opportunity to transform one person's life, we're transforming the generations to come after them. Because you do see that a lot where one parent who first in their family goes to a junior college or community college, depending on most people call it community college now, I guess. And then you see the generations that are all kind of trickling after them where maybe they don't even go to community college. Kind of similar to your path, they go straight to the university, which is fine too. I think as much as people are like community college are great, they are great. Also four year universities are great. And sometimes it's better for the student to go to those too.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:11]: Absolutely. And you have one of these transferable experiences where you can talk about a four year, highly selective, a four year state and a community college experience. And across all of those, when, when you think about student affairs, can you talk about the value of student affairs and how it plays out differently at each of these institution types?

Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:09:28]: Yeah, it was a big change for me to go from a very traditional student affairs world. Naspa I found pretty early on I was the muff generation minority undergraduate fellow program for folks who are like, what are you talking about? But I came in probably 22. I started engaging with NASPA and kind of stuck with that. That was my community, my space, the API knowledge community, the multiracial knowledge. Those were my people for 10, 15 years of my career. Very kind of student adversary stuff. And then I went to community college. And lots of our community colleges aren't engaged in professional associations like naspa.

Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:10:05]: And not to always critique or to blame them, it's many times a financial resource situation. So I love that ability to try to pull community college people into naspa. So all of my roles, I'm like, I'm going to find some money, I'm going to pay for the journal, I'm going to send you to the conference, something like that. And I remember going to, as a dean at, at a community college and nobody knew what I was talking about with NASPA or formalized Student Affairs. And they still call it student services in many ways. And I would say many folks in the community college world don't always have that opportunity to invest in the, the professionalization, the research, the academic discipline of student affairs and student development. And so I felt very fortunate that that was the beginning part of my career. I had that foundation on higher ed and student affairs research that helped me kind of learn how community colleges work.

Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:10:56]: And then I had a strong foundation of leadership development, social justice theories, team dynamics. That was really beneficial as I moved into a dean role and then as a senior student affairs officer. I'll also caveat. I spent most of my community college career in California, which is a little bit different. It's kind of a beast of a system. In 16 colleges, over 2 million students, largest higher education system in our country. So it's very regulated, very compliance based. A lot of the ways we operate in student affairs is from assembly bills and Senate bills.

Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:11:28]: And the folks writing those assembly bills are not student affairs people typically, yet it impacts how we do student affairs. So that was a big shift for me. I was like, wait, I don't get to like apply this theory to practice in the way that makes sense to me. No. And so that was a big difference. I think also it was a learning space for me to be in a management position and strong bargaining unit cultures, where there are employee unions that have a lot of authority and power as well as shared governance, is a lot more focused within the California system. So I adapted to those and I really value those. I think that oftentimes they can seem like barriers, but Once you learn how to work collectively with those groups, it can actually make the institution a lot stronger.

Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:12:15]: So those were some of the big changes of like the pros and the cons. So many beautiful things about being at a community college. And I don't know even if you were there for the summer, I don't know if you realize recognize this, but when I first got to community college, the things I did as a normal student affairs hall director, stuff like that, investing in students, get to know them, advising them, the students were so appreciative and it was like, wow, I think I was there a semester and there was this panel and two students said I was their mentor, which was heartwarming and meaningful. And at the same time, I felt a little sad that many of these students had been neglected. And again, not to blame our community college people. We often have so fewer people at a community college who work there versus at a big university. You have a lot more people, I guess, to mentor students, to guide students. And so our community college students don't often get the individualized support that a lot of folks who go straight to university get.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:05]: Absolutely. And when I also think about the community college experience in student affairs, we just had a guest on earlier this season who had a similar experience to you where she went from four year experiences to two year experiences. And one thing that she talked about was that while teams might be smaller, they're also more knowledge, knowledgeable about the students around you because you have to think more stratified across functional areas as opposed to kind of verticals within student affairs.

Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:13:30]: I don't know what kind of path you started in studios, but starting out as like a hall director or resident, you're kind of like a generalist of everything. And in community colleges, that's very common. You know, I do wish some of our areas in community college had a lot more specialized people. But you see, it's more common that student affairs folks are generalist, not just in student affairs, but they know a little bit about academic affairs and facilities and everything. And I think coming out of a life housing background, that's very normal for those spaces too. So super grateful that I started in student affairs. Even now as a president. The level of crisis response that you get coming out of student affairs, goodness, like, I'm always prepared.

Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:14:07]: They're like, oh, wow, you handled that crisis. Where I was like, I started out in res life, I was like, I lived in the residence halls with the students for 10 years. I was like, I don't think there's going to be a crisis that happens, that's going to surprise me.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:16]: I actually started out in student conduct, which I think is not as common of a pathway into student affairs. I remember my mentor and my undergraduate experience. I was doing an internship with a VPSA as a senior in undergrad because I knew I wanted to go into the field. And she said, as part of your internship, you're going to chair the student conduct hearing board. And I said, I don't want to do that. She said, you're going to do it and you're going to like it. And she was very right. It was a great opportunity for me to learn about perspective taking and what fairness and fundamental fairness and process and the importance of process for those types of procedures were in higher education.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:48]: And that led to a GA ship for me in student conduct at Oregon State and was able to finish the master's there and then pathwayed right into a student conduct coordinator position. And that kind of foundationed my experience. So I got a different way of looking at student affairs from the beginning, but was in constant contact with residence life because a lot of cases would come from residence hall interactions. And so that kind of foundationed me into ultimately CSAO position. So it was a fascinating role.

Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:15:18]: And most people hate conduct and don't want to go into it. That's always so funny. And I've said this often with folks who are really resistant to conduct. I feel like some of my most meaningful experiences I've had as an educator were through conduct cases. And so it was like, oh, yeah. And so when you see folks who are possibly made some poor decisions or at the kind of the lowest points of their academic or life, and you're able to kind of support them and coach them with that. But thinking about conduct, this is interesting. When I switched to community college, I love your story around starting conduct, even as a student.

Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:15:53]: And I mean, I guess I was an ra, so I had to like document or, you know, write up is what people used to say, which was like the beginning of a conduct process. And then even as a grad hall director doing like low level adjudication. When I switched to the community college role, it was typically deans and AVPs as conduct officers. And I was like, oh, that's so interesting. I was doing these things as grad students and I really tried to push for that, that it is a lens that somebody as a newer professional has the skills to do that. Those levels of empathy, understanding, compliance, creating organization and structure and learning moments out of sometimes poor decisions. So I've been able to bring that to all of my community college roles. Even now when I've switched to a new state and I'm in Connecticut now.

Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:16:37]: Getting to work with most of our conduct officers here are associate deans or deans. And to see that role as part of their portfolio and to be able to guide that, support that, and coach that. There's so many things coming out of student affairs that have really helped me really vibe with the many parts of the campus.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:16:53]: Well, and I think part of that conduct foundation too, was it really emphasized for me, something I think we all should already know, which is that the importance of treating somebody with dignity and respect in all interactions is really critical. And making sure that we can emphasize the humanization of people in those conduct spaces is just the one thing that's going to make it the most powerful for everybody involved. Especially because we're usually working with people who still have a lot of development to do. I mean, we all have a lot of development to do at all points in our life. But maybe it's the first time that person has made a decision that has had that type of impact for them or somebody else.

Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:17:27]: I love that you said everyone has development. And that's kind of the great piece around community college college is that I think our average student's like 26 years old, 27 years old. And we have a lot of high school students now too. And so our dual enrollment programs, you can start in ninth grade. So sometimes we have ninth graders in our class, and then we often will have 50 year olds in our class. And the variety of folks who make decisions, you know, that aren't always positive, it crosses over folks from many different backgrounds and age ranges. So that idea of development is never done. Really resonates with community college college spaces.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:00]: How do you see student affairs now that you're in a presidency seat compared to when you were working directly in that corner of higher ed?

Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:18:07]: Yeah, you know, one good transition, and this wasn't something that I ever thought I would do, is I started in a role as a vice president of student affairs with one president, Dr. Jennifer Taylor Mendoza. And then she moved to a different campus as the college president and highly encouraged me to apply to be the provost there. And so, and I had always kind of dabbled in academic affairs. I've been regularly teaching for almost 20 years, in some ways as an adjunct and a couple times more full time. I still research, write, et cetera. So I was like, okay, I've always been a little bit on the nerdy side. Of Student affairs anyway.

Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:18:41]: And so I did go for the provost job, and I got it. And so in that role, being the provost, I got to really dig deeper into academic affairs. And that idea of, like, the how do we get Academic affairs and Student affairs to collaborate more was, like, that was my jam. And I was like, okay, I love student affairs. The VP of Student affairs that we're able to hire was formerly one of my team members at another campus. So we already worked well together. So I got to see student affairs from a little bit of an outside perspective when I was the provost and found many ways to collaborate and seeing how it gave me, like, yes, student affairs is really important. Yes, academic affairs is important, too, and the other areas that are existing, too.

Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:19:20]: And now in this role, there's so much value that student affairs has. And of course, the core of what we do is the things that happen within the classroom and how those are complimentary to each other. And so for me, it's always nice to be able to see priority prioritizing what should come first, what should come second, when we do have limited resources. That's something that's very true and common for community colleges. We're always needing more money and needing more people. So how do you make sense of that for someone who. Student affairs is the bulk of what I spent my career doing, yet I'm in charge of the overall operation of a campus now, too, so that's been good. There have been times where I have picked investing in academic affairs positions or facilities positions or marketing positions over student affairs.

Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:20:03]: And I think sometimes people get surprised. And at the same time, I think I'm able to make those decisions and discuss why I made those decisions from a lens that people know. I understand student affairs, and I see the value in student affairs. I see the value in student activities where people think it's like, well, that's cute. They're just playing games together. Like, well, actually, here's this, this, and this, and how this impacts retention and graduation, persistence, et cetera. So that's been helpful for me. But it is like, one of those things where I'm not always picking student affairs over the other divisions of the camp campus, luckily, because I've had experience across all of it, and they're all connected parts, too.

Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:20:40]: I was just guiding my campuses to go through our annual planning process, and retention was probably going to be one of our top priorities moving in. And a lot of the Academic affairs kept kind of making this assumption that if retention is our top priority, then that's all Student affairs people. And I was like, oh, no, no, no, hold on now. And it gave me confidence to be able to talk about retention and a lens that is both academic affairs and instructional as well as student affairs. It really is the blending of those two. And so I feel very comfortable and confident as I moved into a role like I'm in now. Because I had spent so much time in student affairs and then time as a provost, I was randomly even the dean of the library for a little bit. So I was like, okay.

Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:21:24]: But I've always kind of liked the mix and the many things that are happening at an institution, which is why I've always loved student affairs because we're kind of in everybody's business all the time.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:32]: Any. Anyway, you have this incredible perspective where you can look at a university challenge and say, okay, I need to approach this problem from a variety of perspectives. I could see it from facilities, I can see it from academic affairs, I can see it from student affairs. I can see it from the presidency seat. If, if you're a student affairs professional, what would you want student affairs professionals to know about the way the presidency brain works when decisions are being made? And I ask this because some of us are really far away from presidents. We could be, you know, seven, eight layers in a hierarchy away from a president. Some of us might be much closer, a VPSA type of role, but we're not always able to understand decision making processes or thought processes, especially when something was really important to us and maybe that was factored into a decision, but ultimately didn't tilt a decision in a particular direction. Can you talk about how you think about that problem set and then what you wish student affairs professional would know about how you have to make those decisions?

Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:22:26]: I'll say it's still evolving for sure too. And I do feel pretty good, even though I'm just wrapping up my first semester in this presidency, my last role, where I was the provost, the president who I moved to that campus with her. I was fortunate to have her as a mentor, and she included me in a lot of the ways in which she was thinking and talking about decision making. So I felt like for a few years I got to sneak peek at what it was like to be a president in that role. And then now that I'm in it, I would say. And it varies too. So I'm speaking from a community college perspective. I have three small campuses that I serve as the president over.

Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:23:01]: Collectively there, you know, we're talking about 10,000 students. So they're each not huge Huge. And it could be different if you're at a large university, if you're at one large community college. Based off of kind of my model, helping people kind of really understand what are the basic things that we need to get done. And this was hard for me for a little bit as I moved from university to community college. I feel like in when I was at university specifically doing identity development works for marginalized populations. So LGBT centers, multicultural centers, Asian American centers, undocumented centers, et cetera, et cetera. Sometimes those spaces, especially at universities, we think about identity development and of course all of us student various people, we took all these classes and theories and then getting to the point to where in community colleges sometimes that feels like a luxury to be able to even talk about those things.

Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:23:50]: We're talking about some real basic things around getting out of developmental math and English classes or eliminating them and reforming them. We're talking about real basic needs and many of our students having basic needs of food, shelter, transportation, child care, medical insurance. And most of these offices are one person offices. You have a one person student activities office. Like you're lucky if you have a multicultural affairs office. I have a seven hour a week person who is a DEI coordinator is kind of what they call it now. So we're really, you know, basic level trying to get by. And so I think that when I think about some of the pieces that we pull, like this is important, important.

Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:24:30]: I agree that some of the student affairs things are very important, but when I can't staff an English class, it's really hard to rationalize adding another student activities position or being able to start a mentorship program. I highly believe that those things are important and valuable. But if I can't run a gen ed class, it's really hard to think about those kind of above and beyond pieces. I end up in a lot of conversations with people and I really want to support their proposals and initiatives. I love the innovations that our especially our newer professionals are bringing to the campuses. And I have to explain very regularly, we're not there yet. We're still trying to do some basic things. As a community college that's currently in a state with heavy budget cuts happening.

Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:25:14]: So it's not that I don't value student affairs, I value it. And probably most of my career has been in jobs that now I'm looking back like, oh my gosh, those jobs are so important and if I don't run these classes, we don't even have students, students. So that's a hard decision to make. And so to me, it's like, all good ideas, but some good ideas are a little bit more at the basic level. So I. I feel it's. I feel like that's hard to do sometimes. But I will say I really got good at budget and prioritization because I started in these roles.

Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:25:42]: My first job as a director was of an LGBT center at UC Santa Barbara. And even though, like, people think like, oh, it's a uc, lots of resources, search one, et cetera, I was the director of an office that, no, most people don't care about. So it's like, I think my first year that my budget was $10,000. And so it's like the whole year, $10,000. And I was like, how do I make this job? How do I make this department run on $10,000? And so I got good at that. And then it was like, how do I assess this and prove our value and our worth and our impact on students to get more resources and more staffing? And so I learned those skills as a student affairs director sector in a small office serving marginalized people. And I think that that's something that I. I feel like I do well as a community college president because we have real small budgets.

Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:26:33]: We're always hustling, always trying to prove our worth and our impact. And I think you gain those skills when you grew up in these offices that are the ones that are never kind of the core of student affairs of what we would say, you know, of course, I could have gone the housing route and been the director of housing, blah, blah, blah, which. Those are often the people who end up in VPSA jobs or maybe beyond. But I don'. I'm a feeler, and I like to kind of hang out with folks in. In community and cry sometimes.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:00]: What advice do you have for current student affairs professionals who aspire to be a university or college president?

Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:27:07]: You know, there are so many things I would say, one, why do you want to do it? It's a good question to ask yourself. And I don't know if you ever got caught up in this around, like, especially like NASPA Student Affairs Y folks, and I'm guilty of this, is we get kind of caught up in the game around, like, I did this job for three to five years. Now I'm supposed to go apply to the next one and like, oh, I've been a director. Now I need to be an assistant dean or dean, and I need to be a avp, like, all these kind of things. I feel like we get into that a little Bit too much. And I always ask people when they're like I want to be a dean or I want to be the vice president, I want to be like why? Tell me like think about why. And I think for me, even earlier in my career and it took me a while to kind of get out of this is like a title or a position somehow meant I was worth something or I had value or more value because I supervised more people or I had a bigger budget, I had a bigger title. And I think when we move into these roles for reasons like that, it feels good for like six months.

Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:28:01]: And then after that six month of being the dean where it's off like you're just a dean like everybody else and then like you still got all the drama and the title's not even exciting anymore. So I feel like people who are chasing titles cuz it makes them feel like they have an impact or a value. It's really a scary kind of trap to go down. Especially folks in these roles are getting let go all the time and then you have this kind of like identity crisis where like well, I put all my worth and value into being a product president and people knew my name and people said all the impact they've noticed is now I don't have that job. Like well then who are you? So I think that's a scary thing to do. If it's about money, it's never really worth the money because the number of hours you often work can be like you would make more money for doing a job that's less hours. So that's the first thing I would say question that I really questioned, did I want to move up? Being that dean was the sweet spot for me. I felt like I had an impact.

Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:28:51]: I felt like I had autonomy, it was good work, life balance. I still was able to stay connected to students in the way that's really enjoyable. And I was like, I feel like I have to move up because I feel like I've invested a lot into developing skills and skills that I think I can make a difference. Especially in a community college world where unfortunately I didn't see a lot of presidents that kind of had a holistic social justice foundation of leadership. And that's something that I was fortunate that other people guided me down that path. My academic disciplines took me down that path. When you think about who's at community colleges, low income, immigrant, first gen, bipoc, trans and queer, disabled and, and many of the presidents don't have the skills and knowledge to serve them in an adequate way. And so I was like, okay, well, that's the path I came from.

Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:29:39]: I want to do that. Even though I would rather just, like, hang out and watch tv. I was like, I feel like I'm supposed to do this. So I did it, and I'm doing it, and overall it's been great. So I. That's the path. And then some tangible, practical things to really gain. You have to learn the academic side of the house.

Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:29:58]: So start adjuncting. If you. Depending on what kind of school you're going to be at, you don't always have to research and write. I do research and write. I would say light research. I mostly write for practitioners. I'm like, here's the problem. Here's a little bit of baby research.

Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:30:11]: Do this and it'll make things better. So find ways to engage on the academic side of the house. Be flexible. I kind of kept getting pulled into different directions by interim roles. I don't know when someone's like, do you want to do this interim role? I was like, okay. I guess. One of the fascinating things that looped all the way around in my career when I was at University of Wisconsin Madison, our VP of Student Affairs, Dr. Laurie Burke Berkwum, was like, I want to start a foundation advancement office for student affairs.

Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:30:38]: And she's like, I want you to start that office. I was like, you know, I've never done this before. She's like, you'll figure it out. She's like, you know, student stories, and you're good at marketing. So I did. So I was able to help start that office. And so for a year, I did fundraising advancement, alumni relations for student affairs. And then when you think about what it means to be a president, that's a big part, like engaging with donors, getting grants, get doing the alumni part.

Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:30:59]: And I think that that's a lot of things that student affairs people don't often have. So all of my interviews, presidents, that is a big part of really that level of engagement. And so that was helpful for me to be able to, like, yeah, I actually have done this. And then I translated through a couple of my community college roles to be like, yeah, I've helped raise this much money, these grants. So those are a few things that I think are often really important for student affairs folks to round out what they might want to do as they move forward.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:27]: Let's transition to talk about your research and your work a little bit. And also, you're quite a prolific speaker on marginalized identity topics. Can you tell us a little bit about your interest there and what you're finding right now.

Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:31:38]: Yeah, well, I mean, I think I got deep into this all from, like, NASA stuff. And so thank you for all you do at NASA and engaging people and making these conferences wonderful. And so I think that I was always trying to figure out, like, how to kind of combine things. And when it came to research, writing, speaking, I don't know, I was kind of a few things. One, I was at a school, I was like, you can't go to NASPA unless you're presenting. So I was like, oh, I better submit something, because if I don't get anything approved, then I don't get to go to NASPA and see my friends. So I did those kind of things. I often was.

Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:32:12]: So I. I did my first master's in marketing research and then I went back and I worked full time as a resident director at Binghamton University and did a master's in, I dunno, it was like social sciences, student affairs and diversity. So I was working full time and doing a master's in student affairs. And so I would find ways to be like, okay, I'm taking this class, I wrote this paper. I'm turning into a conference presentation. I'm submitting it. I did it at the conference, it went it well. I'm going to workshop it and turn it into an article.

Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:32:36]: So it was really like, maximizing my time. And that's kind of how I started doing writing and then speaking and speaking at conferences around a paper that I wrote or something like that. And I was often picking papers to write for my classes or things to present at our conferences out of, like, I don't know, things that I just was passionate about. I wanted to read about and write about and talk about or areas I knew I needed to grow. That was a challenge, challenge to myself. Back in, like 2005, I was a resident director. I had come from a very interesting Evangelical Pentecostal background that didn't talk about many identities we talk about today. And I read this article about trans students in the residence hall and it scared me a little bit that I was like, I don't really even know what I would do if I had trans students in my residence hall.

Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:33:24]: So I took it. I was like, this is gonna be my thesis topic. And so this was 20 plus years ago now that I was like, I want to know what universities are doing. And that really challenged me to. To understand how I could be a better resident director, how I could share this with colleagues in our field and also a better understanding of my own gender identity and expression, although I probably wasn't at a place to say that yet or even acknowledge that it was informative and healing for me and my own self help. Lots of my gender expression identity had been policed and harmed. And so I continued that path. And oftentimes when I've seen a problem where I'm like, why is no one writing about this or talking about it? I'm like, oh, I guess I have to do that.

Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:34:00]: And so the last book that I wrote is I got to be a director of LGBT centers and universities, and then wrote a couple of books around queer and trans students in higher education with religion and Christianity, with race and identity. And then I got to help start one of the first LGBT centers at a community college in the country with Dr. Emily Mitchell, who was at American River College with me. And then we presented at all these community college conferences, like, here's how you start queer and trans services at a community college. And people ate it up. And this was like, 2018, so not even that long ago. But this was stuff that community colleges didn't know yet or have resources. Resources for those things yet.

Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:34:38]: So I think for us from universities who grew up in the field, we might think that that's basic stuff, but finding the resources is really hard in community colleges. Some of these really rural community colleges, they're highly politicized, can be violent. So after doing a lot of presentations, I turned to Emily, and I was like, emily, I think someone needs to write a book about this. And we're like, I think that's us. So we wrote the book Queer and Trans Advocacy in the Community College, along with Lemuel Watson. And that's been a really meaningful space for me to be able to write a book around how community colle can really do better with serving trans and queer students. And so I've gotten the chance to speak to community colleges all over the country on how to put that book into practice. It's one of my favorites.

Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:35:19]: When a student affairs division or a community college will use it as, like, a common read for their employees, Then I get to come at the end and do, like, the little book talk and Q and A, and they're like, we really tried to do this thing, and it was not working. What's your advice? So that's been meaningful to me, and I think that we're in a time in our country and even worse world where that's being really complicated around the schools that used to be more comfortable advocating for those things or having to be fearful because of their funding or local politics, and understanding that that's real, especially now that I'm in a seat as a president and the implications that come with that, but knowing that we can still be strategic in how we do that. So I have a lot of thoughts for other books coming from this seat now, too. I'm trying to figure out how I have time to do that. So I'm making outlines of things that I want to write specifically from a leadership seat. And I think also in this time where I know a lot of folks who are in senior administrator roles, even as a VP of Student affairs or as a president, that the things that we felt comfortable saying three to five years ago can get people kicked out of their jobs now. And I'm not the type to not say those things. And so I'm going to say them.

Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:36:23]: I'm trying to figure out how do I do social justice work that has an impact in a way that can be making meaning now today too, because I'm not trying to cause a bunch of lawsuits or end up in the news all the time. I just want create a space for my students to be able to live fully who they are, to get their education and not have to compromise or to put part of themself at the backseat of coming to get an education. And I know that a lot of campuses have had to dissolve things, rename things, which I know renaming things can be strategic. It's also kind of minimizing in the symbolism of you value and you matter here are gone at the same time, too. So I have thoughts in my head around what that looks like in practice, and I still work shopping it, and I look forward to being able to detail out what that is, not just for me, but I think for many folks in leadership positions that are afraid for their jobs to do what they know they need to do for their students.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:13]: I want to express my gratitude to you for being a president just in the forefront of all of this, not afraid to use your voice, and then also being out there with all of the identities that you carry. We don't see many college presidents who identify like you do. And it's one of those things where you said something earlier where you're kind of like, oh, no one's written it. Oh, I have to write it. I felt like that a lot in my career as well, where there's not been necessarily someone who blazed the trail for me ahead of me. So there are many moments where if you don't take that opportunity to carve it for someone. But now you created a path for others who identify like you to see themselves in a position like a college president.

Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:37:49]: Well, thank you. I'm interested in your perspective from a global perspective, knowing you're in the uk. Like, what's kind of this shift in kind of how we talk about identities in higher Editor student affairs from a, like an outside USA perspective.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:03]: The Overton Rectangle, Overton Square, whatever you want to call it is, is a little different. In the uk, for example, the value of higher is not being questioned at all in the uk. So it's taken quite a bit of the narrative in American higher education and we're just not seeing that. In fact, in most parts of the world, we're not seeing that dialogue. I'm also a proud member of NASPA's global division board. Currently we're chaired by Amnea Badr, who is a lovely, incredible professional in student affairs and she always brings an incredible global perspective. And we're represented from people all over the world. So we've got board members that are coming from the Manassa region, region.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:38]: We have global members from Europe and Asia and beyond. And the conversations are just quite different. We're still talking about inclusion in different ways, we're talking about funding in different ways. But I think the one thing that the US and the UK have in common right now is a pretty serious shift in policy related to international students coming into our learning spaces. Both nations have taken a pretty hard stance on making it more difficult for international students to approach education. And we just had a lovely conversation in a previous episode with, with Zachariah from University of Michigan. But what he's seeing, because he works solely in the international student space and he's, he's an expert and focused there. And so we're seeing choice of those students divert.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:20]: And that is also going to affect the globalization viewpoints of our students on these campuses, because they're not going to be able to interact, engage, cross, cross exchange ideas with people who have extremely different life experiences than them, which I think is going to have a deep impact on, on the way that we see each other in the world. Because I think the number one, one way that we can create inclusion spaces is simply to talk to each other across lived experiences. Because even though both the UK and the US speak English, I make a joke all the time that, you know what? I don't speak English, I speak American. And those are different things. And sometimes those are small moments. For example, I have a good friend who says, tamao sauce for ketchup and the first time they asked for tomato sauce with their chips, I thought they wanted marinara sauce for the fries. And so it's just, it's small stuff like that, but it's, but it's also big things about how we use language, how we live in high context, low context environments, how confrontation with care looks, how exchange of ideas and political ideology looks. It's all really different.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:19]: So I think the, the long and the short of all of that is we've come to a space where the conversation in US higher education, which is where my intellectual home is, my education and training is it's not speaking the same language as the rest the of of the world right now, and maybe it will again soon. But because the US is physically so far removed from a lot of the rest of the world, I think the ideas can also drift to be far away. And that's what, what I'm observing.

Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:40:45]: I love that perspective and I think that just being outside of a US context challenges us to really think about the words that we're using. And especially kind of with this current anti DEI movement, I guess that would be, I think we did need to question the words that we were saying and why we're saying them and how they impact folks and the really going back kind of the human side of it and not just the political side of it. I worked for semester at seed 10 plus years ago and on the student affairs team and my job was the diversity and cultural specialist. And in that role I was supporting bipoc students, queer and trans students, women, international students, and all of those identities can look differently when you go from country to country, Even things like race, the way we talk about race here versus in Asia or Africa, very different. And then supporting queer and trans students at I think we went to 10 different countries and a number of the countries it was criminalized for being queer or trans. And so we had to think about how do we do queer and trans advocacy in a global perspective. And so this current kind of space that we're in and thinking about, well, it's illegal, we're not going to do anything or whatever this illegal idea is. It's like, well, you know, 20 years ago, 50 years ago, people found ways to advocate, to be activists, to support.

Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:41:58]: And in many parts of of the world it's still like that too. And not that I want the US to go in that direction, but we will still persist, we will still find ways to advocate, we can still center that in love, no matter what the policy or the administration is.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:13]: Joshua I'm going to transition us to our theme questions for the season, which is on the value of student affairs. So I've got three questions that we've been asking every guest this season. And the first one is, when you think about the value of student affairs, what comes to mind first and why?

Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:42:27]: Sense of belonging. I would say that's what brought me in for first is just a person to fill a place that I could connect, which that wasn't often common for me. But then for our students and even employees, the attachment to retention, the goals of consistent persistence to graduation. So it really goes down to kind of the bread and butter of what higher education is about. And so much of that sense of belonging comes from our student affairs folks.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:52]: Our second question. Can you share a specific story or moment when you saw the value of student affairs come to life?

Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:42:58]: I would say when I think about student affairs coming to life, I'm going back to my days as an assistant dean and director at University of Wisconsin, Madison. This was 2014-17, when Black Lives Matter was becoming a campus movement. Seeing our student leaders, specifically our black student leaders, other students of color, and even our white students mobilize, put leadership development into action to gather people, to organize events, protest actions, and in a way that cost them something, their time, their emotions, possibly conduct situations. To see students grow in stressful situations like that, to support each other. That to me was such a powerful moment to be a director in that space. I learned so much from them and so much from my team members. Seeing student leaders move into advocacy roles that were far beyond them, that were national and global. And I see people who develop those skills often get them from student affairs programs that intentionally nudge students to gain those tools and those skills to lead in that way.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:44:00]: And our first final question, what do you think student affairs needs to do to be better understood and better seen in today's educational environment?

Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:44:07]: Student affairs can continue to do kind of the core of what we've always done. And I think really we need to do a better job of telling the story of our impact on the core operations of higher education. I would say that we often think about a lot of the kind of leading indicators that would get us to the goals, but don't always connect it to the actual goal itself. As much as I love the focus on getting that degree as a community college president, the area that I feel like we need to make sure we're tying student affairs to is really looking at getting students into living wage jobs. And so that's a community college specific perspective. I often say that my goal in moving into a community and our college is serving this community is poverty reduction and hopefully poverty elimination. And that comes through getting students into programs, out of programs, transferring it into careers and academic affairs programs or what we often call workforce programs. Talk about that a lot, but I often hear our student affairs people connecting the work that they do with poverty reduction and poverty elimination for those who are most marginalized within our communities.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:13]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:45:19]: Thanks Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world and there's a ton of things happening in naspa. Well, Happy New Year to you. As you're listening today and we're starting a brand new year, one of the things that I wanted to talk to you about is the 2026 NASPA Annual Conference. The NASPA Annual Conference is the premier gathering for student affairs professionals, educators and higher education leaders dedicated to advancing student success and institutional excellence. Each year, thousands of participants come together to explore innovative research, share transformative practices, and strengthen professional networks that shape the future of higher education. The 2026 NASP Annual Conference, our 108th annual conference will take place March 7th through the 11th, 2026 in Kansas City, Missouri. As an attendee, you can expect dynamic keynote speakers, thought provoking sessions, and meaningful opportunities to collaborate across functional areas, all within an inclusive, forward thinking environment designed to inspire progress on every campus.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:46:23]: You do still have some time to get your registration in for early registration. The early registration deadline is on February 4th. You also have time for the second cycle of scholarships where you can apply for scholarships for the conference if you need be and the deadline for that is January 13th. Jill and I are really excited to be attending the NASPA Annual Conference again this year. We will be talking to attendees about their own experiences in student affairs and recording some of the recordings, some questions questions that all of you can be a part of. So if you are there you definitely will want to come and find us because we would love to talk to you. We always also have an opportunity to be able to record a couple of episodes at the conference that we will be providing to you after the conference and it's a great opportunity to go even deeper with some of the keynote speakers and others that make that conference happen. If you missed it, there is a brand new leadership exchange that came out right before the end of the year and this issue is called Shaping the Future of Community Colleges Through Student affairs this special issue highlights the impactful work being done at community colleges and the essential role these institutions play.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:47:38]: This issue showcases the breadth of contributions community college make to the profession, from academic and co curricular experiences to fostering connection and belonging for students. Beyond this, there is another great opportunity for you to get even more more information. On January 20th at 4pm Eastern, there is a webinar that is free for all members called a Reimagined Leadership Exchange. NASPA Leaders Talk Community Colleges Innovation and what Comes Next as mentioned, this Leadership Exchange is a special one focusing exclusively on community colleges. To mark this historic focus, NASPA President Dr. Amelia Parnell, NASPA Vice President for Research and Policy Dr. Janae Chandler and and Co Editors Dr. Mayra Olivares Llureta and Dr.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:48:25]: Eddie Martinez come together for a dynamic roundtable conversation. The group will reflect on why this is a pivotal moment for community colleges and why this matters for student affairs professionals at all institutional types, the innovations gaining momentum across the field and the leadership required for what comes next. Their insights set the tone for a new era of storytelling, connection and shared learning. As mentioned, this web event is on January 20, 2026. It's 4pm and it is a free opportunity for all NASPA members. All you have to do is go to learning.naspa.org to sign up today. Also, right before the end of the year, NASPA submitted comments on the ACT survey to the Department of Education. NASPA, alongside a coalition of 34 higher education and research organizations with the Post Secondary School Data Collaborative, submitted public comments to the U.S.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:49:20]: department of Education regarding the proposed addition of the admission of the Admissions and Consumer Transparency Supplement, or acs, to ipeds. The comments addressed the data definitions, the accelerated implementation timeline, limited technical assistance, and the potential risk that AXE data would not meet IPEDS data quality quality standards or support its stated purpose. The coalition urged the Education Department to address these issues before requiring institutions to report ACTS data. Every week we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association association is as strong as its members and for all of us we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself where do you fit where do you want to give back? Each week? We're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:51:07]: Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in naspa.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:51:18]: Chris, thank you so very much for continuing to keep us updated on what's going on in and around NASPA and Joshua, we have reached our lightning round, which is seven questions in about 90 seconds, all about you. I promise they're fun. Are you ready to go?

Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:51:31]: Let's go.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:51:32]: Question number 1 1. When you are a conference keynote speaker, what is your entrance music?

Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:51:36]: I didn't get an entry music song, but right now, I mean, I would take golden by hundreds.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:51:42]: Number two, when you were five years old, what did you want to be when you grew up?

Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:51:45]: Probably a dancer.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:51:46]: Number three, who's your most influential professional mentor?

Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:51:49]: Dr. Lemuel Watson.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:51:51]: And what institution is that from?

Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:51:52]: He is now at Antioch University, but he was my dean when I was at Northern Illinois University and my advisor for my doctorate dissertation.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:52:00]: Number four, and I'll caveat this by saying you can say your own work. What's your essential student affairs?

Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:52:05]: I refer all of my team members to Read Identity Conscious Supervision and Student affairs by Robert Brown, Shruti Desai and Craig Elliot.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:52:15]: Number five, the best TV show you've been binging lately.

Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:52:17]: RuPaul's Drag Race UK.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:52:19]: That's a good season. Number six, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:52:24]: Las Culturistas, Bowen Yangs.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:52:26]: And finally, number seven, any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional?

Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:52:30]: I'm thinking about my NASPA folks and going back to some of the people who pulled me into NASPA. Dr. Joy Hoff, Dr. Raja Butter. These are the folks who were my early API KC folks that are still huge parts of my life.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:52:44]: Joshua, it's been incredible to get to know you today, to learn your story and learn about your leadership. If others would like to reach you after the show, especially if they want to do work with your book or keynotes how can they find you?

Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:52:55]: Easiest way is www.joshuaMoon-Johnsonjohnson.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:52:59]: Joshua. Thank you so very much for sharing your voice with us today.

Dr. Joshua Moon-Johnson [00:53:02]: Thank you. It's a pleasure. I love this conversation.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:53:09]: This has been an episode of Essay Voices from the Field brought to you by naspa. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to be so grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email us@sa voicesaspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for Dr. Jill L. Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions always. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a five star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you're listening now.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:53:39]: It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton. That's me, produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan, Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

Dr. Jill Creighton and Dr. Christopher Lewis talk about the past season and the holidays as they prepare for a short break and then the end of Season 13.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:02]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts brought to you by naspa. We curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you happen to be. This is season 13 on the value of student affairs. I'm Dr. Jill Creighton. She her hers Your essay Voices from the Field Host.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:27]: Happy end of 2025.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:28]: Chris Happy end of 2025. It's been a great 2025 thus far. I know we've got a maybe another week or so left in it. We'll see what happens over the next week. But happy holidays to you and your family and friends.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:41]: And to yours as well. I hope everyone in Michigan is doing well in the snow and staying warm. It's just a much colder climate than I've ever lived in, so I know you must have the best coats.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:52]: We do have good coats, but I will say I have been to London at New Year's and dang cold. So though you may not have the snow, you definitely have the cold weather.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:02]: Oh my gosh, I'm freezing here all the time because it's so humid even when it's really cold. But we hope that everyone is enjoying a calm holiday season with your loved ones. This year we're going to do something a little bit different with the break in the past. We've been done with our fall season, but we wanted to make sure that we are bringing you continual episodes as best we can. So instead we're gonna take the next two weeks off. So we won't drop one on Christmas Day, we won't drop one on New Year's Day, but our last two episodes will come out the following two Thursdays in January, and then we'll take our break between seasons at the end of January with hopes that we're bringing you our next season in early February.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:42]: Looking forward to coming back. We got these final episodes are really powerful ones, so I really encourage you to take a listen once they come back. It'll be a great way to start the new year.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:52]: And one of our lovely guests will be a current college president who came up through Student affairs, which I always think is a fantastic story for us to learn from and kind of hear the perspectives on higher education from various places in people's careers. The other episode coming your way is all about public policy and higher education. We know that this has been a super funky two years of policy shifts and we're going to be bringing on our incredible chair of the Public Policy division, James Tiger and Diana Ali, who works with NASPA in Public Policy Perspectives. So look forward to those two drops coming in January. In the meantime, we wish you and yours a very warm and renewing break and start to your 26. We'll see you next year.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:41]: This has been an episode of Essay Voices from the Field brought to you by naspa. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to be so grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email [email protected] or find me on LinkedIn by searching for Dr. Jill L. Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions always. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a five star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you're listening now.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:11]: It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton. That's me, produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan, Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

The latest episode of "Student Affairs Voices from the Field," hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton, delves into the complex and evolving landscape of international education, featuring the perspectives and expertise of Dr. Zachariah Mathew, Senior International Officer at the University of Michigan-Flint.

From the outset, listeners are treated to Dr. Zachariah Mathew's personal journey—a career that began as a physical education teacher in India, transitioned into higher education in the United States, and flourished with a research focus on international student college choice. His story reflects how diverse experiences and a global outlook can enrich student affairs and the field of higher education.

One of the central themes is the motivation and decision-making process behind international students studying abroad. Dr. Zachariah Mathew identifies three drivers: economic and social mobility, the pursuit of knowledge and professional impact, and the prestige associated with international degrees. However, as global immigration policies shift and uncertainties around regulations grow, students and their families are increasingly risk-averse—reconsidering where and how they invest in their education.

The conversation explores how universities often view international students through an economic lens, sometimes seeing them as "cash cows" rather than valuable contributors to campus culture. Dr. Zachariah Mathew urges institutions to define the true purpose of internationalization, moving beyond financial incentives to prioritize perspective-building, idea-sharing, and the cultivation of global competencies.

The podcast offers valuable strategies for supporting international students and fostering a truly global learning environment. Best practices include intentional integration of international and domestic students, articulating clear institutional goals for internationalization, investing in well-resourced support centers, and scaffolding opportunities for cross-cultural engagement both inside and outside the classroom. Dr. Zachariah Mathew emphasizes the importance of intentionality—creating spaces where all voices are heard, identities are recognized, and learning outcomes span both academic and personal growth.

This episode also examines the vital role of student affairs in transforming academic degrees into holistic educational experiences. Drawing on the philosophy of Ubuntu—"I am because we are"—the conversation calls for greater collaboration between student affairs and academic departments, and for institutions to nurture students' adaptability, curiosity, and sense of belonging.

If you're eager to understand the challenges, opportunities, and responsibilities at the intersection of international education and student affairs, this episode is a must-listen. Tune in, and gain fresh insight from voices shaping the future of higher education.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:02]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts brought to you by naspa. We curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you happen to be. This is season 13 on the value of student affairs. I'm Dr. Jill Creighton. She her hers your essay Voices from the Field host.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:27]: Zachariah welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field.

Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:00:30]: Jill thank you very much for having me. It's truly an honor and that you consider me worthy of this opportunity. So thank you very much for having me.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:37]: We're looking forward to learning more about your expertise in the international education space. And you have an incredible journey that has brought you to your current seat in international education, weaving through different parts of higher education administration and also through the world. So we'd love to know if you could tell us, how did you get to your current seat?

Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:00:55]: Absolutely. It's in the process started somewhere. Today I'm here. God knows where I'll be tomorrow. So I started off as a physical education teacher in India, teaching at some prestigious institutions in Bangalore. And when I started my career I realized that I wanted to do more. And that also meant that I had to kind of not be where I was, but go up so that I can be in a decision making place. And at some point, almost seven years into my teaching career, I realized that I did not know enough to do any of these things.

Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:01:28]: So I decided to pursue my higher education in sports science and sports management. And this was in India at the time, sports was not an advanced field of study. So I chose to come to the United States. I did my master's in sports management. And the experience as an international student, it was the first time I really looked back into cultural vibrance or cultural competency or global competency. Because while we in India we spoke five or six languages and nobody cared. Everybody does. We eat all kinds of foods and we understood other cultures.

Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:02:04]: So you never thought about it. But it's only when I came to us I really realized the dynamics of those cultural diversity and perspective. But it was within me. I was thinking about it. I was very active as an international student. I was not a traditional student. I was almost 26 years old when I came here. This is about 25 years ago.

Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:02:20]: And that was kind of bubbling in me. I was very engaged with faculty, administrators, seniors to gain their perspective and also very engaged with the student affairs because I was doing my master's in sports management. And then I started working for State University of New York at small community college within that space. And in 2009 I decided to quit my job, go back to school to do my PhD in higher education leadership and Administration at Indiana State University from where I already had my Master's and I specialized in international student affairs there. So my dissertation was on international students college choice. While I was there, while I started, the position position opened up as one of the international student advisor position or the engagement specialist position. It was an associate director position and I was fortunate to have that position. So it started off as engaging the students and looking at it through the student development theories and to see how we can develop the student and bring a holistic education into the student.

Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:03:21]: You know, not just international students, but broadly all how to provide the domestic students this perspective. And that started in 2011, 2025. I'm here at the University of Michigan Flint as the Director and Senior International Officer.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:36]: That's quite a journey. And I love hearing people's student affairs and higher education journeys as they weave through different parts of education. As we've talked about many times on this show, no one grows up saying I want to be a student affairs professional. And so taking that skill set that you built in sports management, sports science and translating it into an international education career is a really great representation I of how we get into this field and move through it. Zachariah, you mentioned that you have experiences looking at international student choice through research. And I know that research is a little bit older now, but can you tell us what we knew then about international student choice in terms of where they're going to school and what that looks like presently? Because we know that that has shifted a little bit.

Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:04:17]: So the students choose to study abroad primarily for under three different categories. That is a college choice. So where they go is comes after why they choose to study abro abroad or stay at home. So one aspect is and most every decision has some element of all the three, but predominantly one is economic decision or social mobility. So they make this decision for social mobility or economic prosperity. So it is a one time investment. Students really take this opportunity to invest in quality education so that not only them but the coming generation can have better economic prosperity and social mobility, which is really correlated. And then there is the psychometric which is about having this opportunity to gain the knowledge and to have higher impact within the field of what they do.

Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:05:05]: And the third one is social. Social is also to aspect is to be able to say where they go and the social prestige that comes with it. So it could be a country it could be a university within the country and it goes on. So these are the major areas and where they go depends on a combination of all these three. So for example, if somebody can afford to go to a private university in the US where there is quality education, they might choose if they have the capacity to withstand the academic rigor and can pay for it. Whereas if somebody does not have the capacity to pay, they might not choose us, but might choose a country where the education is not as expensive as it is in the US So it is a balancing of all these three that really comes in and says, okay, this is where we are going to go. So one might choose United States States, but they might choose a university that might not be expensive because it is an economic decision that they're making because they do not have the capacity to invest where there might be other situation where it's fully funded. So a student who is looking at it through the social aspect could say, you know what, I'm going to go to the prestigious university where I can get accepted into because I don't have to worry about the pay.

Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:06:16]: And also then the, I mean this is not to say that the academic focus does not come into play. The students also look at the academics and the university's capacity to deliver those curriculum and the proficiency of the faculty. So it's a combination of different factors and it is very dynamic. What has changed today with uncertainties in the immigration regulations and its interpretation, students are hesitant to take the risk. So something very important that we need to recognize is if you really look at the large number of international students here in the United States, most of them are from high context cultures where there is uncertainty avoidance. They are willing to take a decision if they are certain about the consequence. But they are hesitant to take a decision when there is not much of certainty in what is going to happen tomorrow. So that is impacting the students decision to choose United States as a destination for now.

Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:07:11]: And in all this we need to recognize that this is a one time investment for the students. And it's also important to recognize that these international students are buying this commodity called education, which according to World Trade Organization, higher education is a tradable commodity. They are buying this purely based on perception. They have never used it before. They talk to people around, they talk to officials, they go on YouTube, they go on Facebook, they look at pamphlets and buy the most significant influential commodity in their life, investing pretty much everything that they have. So it is a significant decision that they make. And they try their best not to take chance. So students risk aversion and parents and families as well because this is a major investment.

Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:08:01]: Kind of not willing to take that chance at this point because of the uncertainty. I mean, the interpretation is changing. We hear something today and tomorrow. It's like, sorry, that's not true. Something else has come up and that is not helping us at all.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:08:13]: It's a tough situation, especially for English speaking countries that are receiving international students because we've enjoyed some global privilege on being quite popular destinations historically. But both the United States and the United Kingdom have put down some pretty stringent requirements for international student entry that really haven't been present in the past. And we also know that a lot of American and British universities are heavily reliant on international student tuition dollars in order to make certain budgetary decisions, work and continue to offer certain student services and things like that. So it's an interesting place to be. So with all of that said, Zachariah, what are you seeing inside of our international education crystal ball about what we're looking down the pike gap for the next several years of international ed, knowing that these regulations are changing and that affordability is changing.

Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:09:05]: Affordability, yes. It's a big question. That is an important thing. But I think at the national level it is important that nations define the purpose of international education. What the motivation is, is it just purely economic or is it about perspective building and bringing the brilliant minds together and sharing those perspectives and ideas and culture? We can look at different countries. Canada opened up their doors many years ago, but they did not have the infrastructure so they had to slow down about a decade ago. Australia did that because of the money. In the US it is a $43 billion industry.

Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:09:40]: These money that the international students bring, that's a lot of money. So there might be motivations for the universities and institutions of higher education to bring more and more international students, but they do not ask the question if they have the capacity. And very often some of the universities don't even define why they want the international students on their campus. They're seen as cash cows. I'm sorry, they are seen as cash cows. Supplementing the loss of revenue from other sides to it comes in the demographic cliff. We all talk about the demographic cliff and that there are not enough students to go to the US Universities and these universities were built on GI Bill. And then the other part that nobody talks about is the big question is, you know, is this investment worth it? This is a big question that people all around it was in the US but now globally they're asking, is this high investment worth the returns? Does the higher education have the value that it says it has? It all comes down to roi.

Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:10:35]: You know, I do not have a crystal ball, but I think it is very important that institutions of higher education define its purpose. And this is something that I'll talk a little more about. This is we need to define what the difference between an academic degree and an education is and what common good are we serving. So unless and until we define that, I think it would be very difficult for us to really bring a big picture on what the landscape is going to look like. And again, it is also changing dynamically. I did not know what AI was 18 months ago in the way I never thought I would use AI. But today I'm so much into it. I mean we are talking about in person classes, then it became virtual and now we are talking about meta varsity.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:20]: Let's go back to what you said about the purpose of why we're bringing international students to our college campuses. And I think you made a really poignant statement when you said that universities are looking at the dollars but not looking at effectively the human element of what we're offering to the students that are choosing to come to our campuses from other countries and how we are creating infrastructure to support them. So if you were to look at the most promising practices in international education that really are doing the of helping international students succeed in specifically US universities, what are you seeing that's on the table that's really promoting that engagement, growth, support education and academic success?

Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:12:01]: First and foremost at an institutional level, they need to articulate why have international students or why internationalize. This includes integrating global perspectives into everything. The curriculum, their day to day operations, and also in articulating the learning outcomes. So that's the first part, institutional level, level articulation of white. Have them. Number two, make sure that these departments or the centers like the center for Global Engagement International center are very well staffed and resources are provided. Only then can we talk about doing anything that would ensure student success. And we have to make sure and recognize that these students whom we accept to be part of our community, know nothing about our community.

Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:12:47]: They're coming into a new land, a new culture, culture of the land and culture of the organization. With just a suitcase and some dollars in the pocket, we then have the responsibility to integrate them into the community, not expect them to assimilate, integrate them into the community and then also make sure that we provide the added resources for them to be successful. Be that navigating the cultural differences or understanding the education system. You know, plagiarism is a major issue here, but in a lot of countries, you are required to plagiarize. You have to memorize and literally write the same thing on the paper and submit it. So we have to make sure that the campus community understands those cultural differences as well. Finally, we also have to make sure that these students are given and extended the opportunity to learn from each other. It is just not the international students having the responsibility to teach or engage the domestic students, but from the domestic students also have the opportunity to engage with international students.

Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:13:52]: And what really happens, and this is just not in the classroom, but also outside the classroom where the perspectives are shared, they learn from each other. We always talk about higher education being the space to create innovators, but we are so slow to innovate ourselves. We do not. So we need to create the space where the students can be innovators in the sense that they are not being taught, just taught to solve today's problem, because they need to be taught how to solve the problems of tomorrow when they graduate, and not in their home country or hometown, but God knows where. So it is very important to make sure that the students, both domestic and international students, learn from each other and provide that conducive environment where they can learn from each other, contribute towards a common cause, and that's important.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:41]: I think one of the most difficult things in welcoming international students into the community is that we also often do not focus on the domestic students that are on our campuses who are also going to be learning alongside students from a different cultural perspective. So we're in a space where our domestic students are for the very first time meeting people from across their home state, perhaps, or from a different type of city than they're from, or from a different type of community. And so there's so much emotional and intellectual growth happening in that space that we, we all know about from a student affairs lens. But then when we add the dimension of international perspective, a lot of times we're working with a space where maybe perspective taking is really difficult, because I have no conceptual foundation for understanding what life is like in a different part of the world, which you don't to visit a place to build that understanding. But I think that can help. But looking at all of that in combination, how do you support the journey of domestic students engaging with international perspectives so that the onus is not on that international student to always be teaching?

Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:15:40]: Thank you very much for asking this question. And my short answer for that is intentionality. Both at the formal and informal curriculum. What happens in the classroom and outside the curriculum? Outside the classroom, what we call the student affairs or co curricular activities. Let's take the classroom. Very often there is this assignment which is focused on the dominant culture. Even in group project, they're given a project that addresses the problems of the local region. What if the faculty reaches out to the student and really encourage, motivate them without intimidating and without calling upon them.

Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:16:15]: Encourage these international students to share the impact of these within that cultural context. Any of the problems or any of the solutions within the cultural context. In my doctoral classes, this is something that I was doing a lot. The faculty would be teaching, the students would be responding to a lot of those domestic issues. And I would intervene and say, you know what? Yes, but how about these and other cultures or other systems or in other higher education systems. This won't work. The tenure or the academic freedom and all those things do not work in many other cultures or in many other countries. So to be able to provide.

Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:16:50]: But the faculty also provided me the space to have the conversation. I could challenge. Even at the graduate level, doing my Masters, I could challenge lot of those dominant notions. And the faculty provided me that opportunity to challenge those. So there was intentionality. So I think it is we have to put an intentional effort to one engage those global or diverse perspectives, but then also make sure that the doors are open for the domestic students to receive it. So it is not a one day, one off. This needs to be scaffolded.

Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:17:23]: And this has to be a continuum from the day the students comes onto the campus. It's not a matter of a class, it is the entire program. And this also really gets into much larger, I do not know, philosophical or structural thought. We have these concept of majors based on the faculty expertise. History faculty has history majors. Biology faculty have biology majors. But if you're really talking about solving problems, where does that fit into that major and expertise? And that is where this intentionality needs to come into play. Where one can share and other can receive.

Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:18:03]: And if anybody believes that this can be done in one class one day or one semester. No, this has to be intentionally woven in to the academic programs. And this also applies to student affairs. Something that I have noticed is as an international student, when I came in, I did not see a space for my opinion or my perspective at all. Because they were talking and everything was about the dominant culture, the diversity, racism and all those things. I did not have a room. So I didn't feel belonged. That's when I started working with the chief diversity officer at my university and saying, okay, where do I fit into these conversations? I had some experience.

Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:18:37]: I had about seven, eight years of work experience, and I could relate to the staff and faculty. So I was able to have these conversations, and that made a huge difference. So the intentionality is the key in.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:48]: Both the spaces, that important conversation around whose culture is being discussed and whose culture is being included. I often have seen international students say that they need to really be quite assertive in order to recognize, represent a different perspective in the classroom or a different perspective inside of student affairs or wherever that might be. So I'm wondering if you can share an example or a moment when you saw that part of student affairs or part of academic affairs did a really good job of supporting perspective taking and inclusivity on global perspectives.

Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:19:19]: Absolutely. This is at my previous institution when I was working as the associate director at Indiana State University. So I did a lot of student engagement initiatives. And for me, it was very important that I'm just not creating another silo of. Of international student and that silo and all the others. So my effort was to bring everybody together, the entire campus student body, and we had the vice president for student affairs, I have to name him, because I think he played a very important role, and this is a recognition to what he has done for the international student and domestic student experience. Nolan Davis. I went to him, had quite a lot of conversations about what I do, why it is important, and I had no monies at all to do any of the student engagement.

Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:20:01]: A lot of those programs that we did was done with very little or no funds at all. So these conversations really led to recognizing that we both are doing the same thing. I'm doing it from the academic affairs, he is doing it from the student affairs, and he has a responsibility for a lot of the outcomes that I really do. So by the end of that year, he provided a substantial amount of funding to engage both domestic and international students within that common space. So one of the events that I did during that time was something called the Heritage Fair. And everybody does diversity fair, everybody does international fair. It is about defining the us versus them. You know, let me tell you who I am, and diversity within its own context of ethnicity or the skin color.

Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:20:49]: So one day I went out to a common area and randomly asked about 20, 25 students what. What they understand when you use diversity, what they understand or what is their interpretation of international and what their interpretation of heritage is. Now, I didn't pay much attention to what they said I was only looking at the kindnesses. So when I said diversity, their hands went out. When I said international, the hands went out. But when I said what does heritage mean? The hands from far came to them. It is about me. So then that year we are organized the heritage fair where everybody had a space.

Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:21:27]: It was not about ethnicity, it was not about race, it was not about skin color, nothing. Everybody has a heritage. So we created that space where by the second year we had almost,500 people attending those events. And the second or third year we spent almost $25,000 in organizing that event. And then further again, it's scaffolding and ongoing. The same VP provided funds to develop student leadership development program where we brought both domestic and international students together and did a year long leadership program where we did a lot of conference sessions, did some team building, and then students had to complete a project. And one of the project was a no food waste project in collaboration with Sodexo that saved a lot of money and saved a lot of food. That particular student who led that program was one who, he went during his interview for Amazon, asked the interviewers, you asked all these questions of what I can do for the company.

Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:22:24]: Now let me ask you this, what can you do for me? And he was hired immediately there. So these opportunities really bring out the best of the students.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:33]: I think this leads us nicely into our theme questions for the season on the value of student affairs. So these are the three questions that we've been asking all of our guests. And the first one is, is when you think about the value of student affairs, what comes to mind first and why?

Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:22:47]: So early in my conversation, I said about the academic degree and an education. The true power of higher education lies not simply in the academic degree. One earns a credential that one can carry around or hang it on the wall, but in the depth of transformation it can foster within and to others. An authentic education is not a static process, but a living influence. It shapes how you perceive the world, navigate challenges and engage others. It endows you the curiosity, the adaptability and critical wisdom that persists long after commencement. In essence, it is not the degree you carry through your life, but the education that steadfastly carries you, sustaining growth, resilience, purpose in every chapter beyond the classroom. So I think student affairs is in that position where they can be the lab that might transform an academic degree to an education.

Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:23:48]: And this is also where the philosophy of Ubuntu comes into play for me. I am because we are. It expresses the core idea, a person's humanity is shaped and defined through relationship with others. In other words, our individual identity and well being depends and contributes to the community as a whole. I think for me, this is the foundation of student affairs. Student affairs can be the lab where you are providing the opportunity to engage with real life problems and solve them without being afraid of being failing. Because this is a place where you can engage students, you can engage community, you can engage perspectives, cultures, you name it, and where students can get to know what what the solution. In the classroom, they may be able to come up with a solution that might give them the grade and pass them the class.

Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:24:46]: But once we provide these students an experiential learning opportunity or engaged learning opportunity where they can really solve the problem in real life, they might fail, but every single failure is a learning opportunity for them. So that's the space that it holds. But then also we need to really look at a much larger problem that we have. Our education or our academic degrees are founded in career and not in problem solving. Even within career, we talk about career readiness and this is within the student affairs space, we talk about career readiness and career preparedness. What does it mean? Listen, you paid me for all these services. In return, I'll make sure that you can get your first job. How about employability? So there are those big questions that we need to ask and we focus on the problems of today.

Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:25:33]: By the time the student graduates, the that problem is obsolete or it's gone. There's a new problem and the students are not ready to attack those problems. And now there's so much of talk and so much of buzz about AI. Yes, first it was like virtual learning or online learning. That is in a big way eliminating the need for interaction and engagement. Yes, it is convenient, it is cost effective both for students and for institutions of higher education. But what is it? We are really lacking the human interaction. And now we are talking about meta varsity.

Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:26:07]: All that you need to do is wear it. And then you can see the teachers, you can see the faculty, and you can feel everything. Where does that space for them to engage and learn come in? And that's where I think the value of student affairs lies in. They need to be focused on student support, fostering personal growth and development. And for me this is very important. Fostering a sense of belonging and community and fostering wellness, safety. And definitely look into that much larger picture of are we providing an education or are we offering an academic degree that could potentially get them to a job? Not per se, a career and employability.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:48]: Our second question can you share a specific story or moment when you saw the value of student affairs come to life?

Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:26:54]: It's my experience here as an international student. As I said in the initially in India, we spoke multiple languages, we interacted with people from all around the world, networking, everything happened. But you never thought about any of those things because it was part of your daily life. It's when I came here, when I really realized the importance of that gain the perspective building and gaining those perspectives and its application and its implementation. And I think I was able to really gain those insight and translate my experiences within the student affairs space and then today apply that when I am working in this field. So I think that lived experience and having a lot of opportunities to talk to professionals in student affairs was very important for me personally. If I really put in simple sentences, it was really taking in my lived experience and translating it into educational experience and career competencies. And that was very much reflected in my job interviews.

Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:27:53]: If I had not really looked at it through the lens of student development theory and the student affairs, I would have had a very different kind of response. Even sometimes I wonder, I might not even have brought up a lot of stuff because it's for granted.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:06]: Our third question, what do you think student affairs needs to do to be better understood and better seen in today's educational environment?

Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:28:13]: I think student affairs needs to articulate, develop or enforce its own identity. This I want to say might be. It's my feelings, but I think we are growing under the shadow of the faculty being considered the university and that we are this co curricular that provides auxiliary services. And again I'm using this word. I think it is important that at an institutional level and as a field, we need to create an identity of our own in student affairs not as the allied services, but as essential service that we provide that ensures student success and also that ensures that the students have this educational experience. Earlier when I said the faculty as the university, what I was trying to say is that the delivery of the formal curriculum is a core essence. It is important, it is very important. But it equally important is student affairs.

Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:29:11]: I was recently I was just looking at where the growth is in terms of nations. On average, E7 countries added 2% GDP growth, whereas the top 10 fastest growing economies had had 22% growth. And these were countries in Asia and Africa. So down the line we can really say that these job opportunities and growth there is a significant increase in potential opportunities in employabilities or employments abroad or to engage with other countries. So the question is, are we, the student affairs, playing a role in ensuring that the student can really tap into that opportunity? And then now moving with a list of few things that we really need to do is we really need to see the make sure that the programming or the engagement that we have, the learning outcomes really align with the academic learning outcomes as well. We can't also be in isolation and in silos. We have to make sure that there is collaboration and alignment of what we do purely in terms of learning outcomes. So if our learning outcome, the student affairs learning outcome has to align with the learning outcomes of academic programs, we need to, and this is something that I think most universities and most institutions really lack, is partnership with the faculty and aligning with their specific learning outcome and making sure that they are engaged partners in this process? Very often, again, they don't see a need to engage with us and we don't see a need to engage with them.

Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:30:47]: And that is really getting into the way. We need to create space to integrate and bring in diverse perspectives. We need to be able to articulate the, the purpose and outcomes of student affairs at the institutional level and at the community level. You know, very often we don't articulate and we don't sing praises and songs about how the student affairs contribute to recruitment, retention and graduation. And even at the programmatic level, one of the successes that I had is I always gave the ownership of everything that I did to the students. I was at the background, but the students were the leading force behind a lot of those things, which really help with the leadership skills and all those things. A real world experience. We need to be able to tell students success stories, especially alumni.

Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:31:35]: We have noticed that we always talk, you know, use the stories from our current students. And in my experience, what I've seen is the current students, I wouldn't say, for a lack of a better term, let me use a shallow, but it is like they are providing testimonies and they are reflecting on that experience that they had in the last six or eight months. Whereas when you talk to an alumni, they have a much deeper reflection, not only about their experience, but its application and how it brought them to, to where we are today, which aligns very well with institutional mission of advancement and networking opportunities for the current students and all those things. So we need to engage alumni and their stories also. And then as I mentioned earlier, student affairs have to recognize that they have a huge role to play in employability and career readiness because it is what takes a student far, is not an academic degree. It is the education that we offer. And finally, this is again the assessment and evaluation. We need to be able to assess what we are doing and if it is achieving it, it has to match.

Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:32:38]: Every single day you get a satisfaction survey. How satisfied were you? But we need to go past that and we need to assess the outcomes and then also evaluate the programs that we do.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:49]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:55]: Thanks Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world and there's a ton of things happening in naspa. You have an opportunity right now to submit a proposal for a new book that is being worked on. This book is called Transforming Mental Health in Higher Education Leadership Strategies and Innovative Approaches. The editors of the book are Thaddeus Montero, Ryan Travia, and Marcus Hodling following the pandemic, the mental health crisis has continued on US Campuses. Data from Healthy Minds from the data from the Healthy Minds Study show that between 2020 and 2021, student flourishing showed a 32.5% decrease among all students from 2013 to 2021 and that greater than 60% of students met criteria for one or more mental health problems problems, a nearly 50% increase from 2013. It's anticipated that these type of critical impacts on student mental health, impacts on student mental health, and concomitant effects on student success and academic achievement will continue into the foreseeable future. As mentioned, we are inviting chapter proposals for the upcoming edited volume examining the leadership strategies and innovative approaches to mental health, health service delivery and higher education, with a particular focus on post pandemic transformations in counseling center operations, institutional mental health frameworks, and community based approaches to student well being.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:28]: This comprehensive work will analyze contemporary challenges, including mental health policy implications, evidence based treatment modalities, which include stepped care frameworks, telehealth integration, embedded counseling models and more, crisis intervention models, resource allocation strategies and pedagogical integration of faculty as mental health allies within institutional ecosystems. The editors are seeking empirically grounded contributions from counseling center administrators, student affairs practitioners, faculty scholars, and clinical researchers who can provide theoretical frameworks, methodological innovations, and applied research findings that advance our understanding of contemporary collegiate mental health service delivery. This is an open call to practitioners and scholars from across disciplines in higher education. Individuals or collaborators with expertise, interest, or experience in any of those content areas are encouraged to apply. The proposal deadline for this opportunity is January 30, 2026. I highly encourage you to explore this for yourself and you can find out more on the NASPA website or through the most recent weekly update from NASPA itself that came out. While the early registration deadline for the NASPA Annual Conference has passed, the regular registration deadline is still open and there are an amazingly wide array of programs that are being offered during this conference. Recently, the Conference committee did provide all individuals the opportunity to explore the entire schedule of the conference and in looking through this conference schedule, there is something for everyone in the student affairs field.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:36:14]: I am hoping that you've had the opportunity to register because we are all so excited to share the fabulous learning and engagement opportunities that have been planned for you and hope that you're looking forward to inspiring keynotes, dynamic pre conference workshops and the wide range of educational sessions, as well as reconnecting with colleagues and friends. With so many sessions that will inform, challenge and energize you in the work that you do, we hope that you will still be joining us. If you haven't already registered to be able to come to the 108th NASPA Annual Conference, you can find out more on the NASPA website. Did you know that as a part of your membership within naspa, there are seven scholarly journals that you have an opportunity to take advantage of? The journals include the Journal of College and Character, the Journal of Student Affairs Research and Practice, the Journal of Women and Gender in Higher Education, the Journal of First Generation Student Success, Technology and Higher Education Emerging Practice, Community College Journal of Research and Practice and Change, the Magazine of Higher Learning Learning. All of these scholarly journals are peer reviewed and there are opportunities for you not only to learn and to grow in your own work, but also opportunities to be able to share with others. So I highly encourage you to explore all of these amazing resources. You can find them on the NASPA website by going under Research and Publications and clicking on Scholarly Journals. Finally today, a call out and encouragement to have you check out all of the knowledge communities that are a part of the association.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:38:02]: I know I've mentioned this over the years, but the knowledge communities are your gateway to the association with over 30 different communities that have been developed over the years to be able to offer you an opportunity to learn and grow with others that have similar passion areas to yourself. It is a great opportunity for you to be able to find a niche and find a community that you can connect with and be able to build lifelong friendships within. It's very easy to join these communities. All you do is go into your profile within the NASPA Portal portal and you can update and get information on any of the knowledge communities and join any of the knowledge communities. You could join all of them or only one. But I encourage you to find at least one knowledge community that you would like to be a part of. At the NASPA Annual Conference, we will be celebrating the Knowledge communities because we're coming upon a large milestone and it's a great opportunity to be able to celebrate the amazing work. After 25 years of being a part of NASPA, I've had the opportunity to be involved with knowledge communities for many of my years within the association.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:39:24]: And I continuously am learning and growing from people within these areas that are bringing not only their passion, but also their commitment to people in the association, to students at our universities and more. So I highly encourage you to find find at least one knowledge community to join today and find a new way to be able to connect with the association on a deeper level. Every week we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the Association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways. Because the association is as strong as its members, members, and for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the Association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself where do you fit, where do you want to give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community, I see myself doing something like that, or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in naspa.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:14]: Thank you so much, Chris, as always, for keeping us informed on what's going on in and around naspa. And Zachariah, we have reached the Lightning Round portion of our show. So I've got seven fun questions for you to answer in about 90 seconds. Are you ready to go?

Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:41:28]: Yes, I am.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:29]: All right, question number one. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:41:34]: Sorry, I can't think about one Question.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:36]: Two When you were five years old, what did you want to be when you grew up?

Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:41:39]: I wanted to be an engineer.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:40]: Number three, who's your most influential professional mentor?

Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:41:43]: Betsy Hein, Dean of Library at Indiana State University.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:47]: Number four, your essential Student affairs read.

Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:41:50]: Whatever it is, I am against it. Rosenthal.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:53]: Number five the best TV show you've been binging lately.

Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:41:56]: CNN News.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:58]: Number six, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:42:02]: Not much.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:03]: And finally, number seven, any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional?

Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:42:07]: Believe in yourself. You are the change. Be the change.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:10]: Zachariah I have so enjoyed learning from you today and hearing your insights on international education and student affairs. If anyone would like to connect with you as this episode airs, where can they find you?

Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:42:21]: My email address is z matthew matthew with 1t@umich edu that is z m a T H E W at U m I c h. Zachariah, thank you.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:33]: So very much for sharing your voice with us today.

Dr. Zachariah Mathew [00:42:35]: Thank you. Thank you very much for having me. As I said, truly an honor that you consider me worthy of this opportunity. Thank you.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:46]: This has been an episode of Essay Voices from the Field brought to you by naspa. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to be so grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email us at [email protected] or find me on LinkedIn by searching for Dr. Jill L. Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions always. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a five star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you're listening now.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:16]: It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton. That's me. Produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

Student Affairs professionals often serve as the heartbeat of a college campus, shaping transformative experiences for students at every stage of their educational journey. In the latest episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field, host Dr. Jill Creighton is joined by Colleen Maeder, Director of Student Services at Miracosta College's San Elijo campus. Together, they deliver an insightful discussion on the unique value of student affairs—especially within community colleges.

This episode masterfully details Colleen Maeder's multifaceted career spanning both two-year and four-year institutions, public and private, on both coasts. Dr. Jill Creighton highlights how Colleen's trajectory allows her to offer a "bird's eye view" of why student affairs work truly matters.

One major theme centers on the personalized and community-focused approach at community colleges. Colleen Maeder emphasizes that student affairs at these institutions must deeply reflect the local community's needs—whether serving traditional-aged students, adult learners stepping back into education, seniors, or those facing significant basic needs challenges such as food or housing insecurity. "Everything we do should be a reflection of the community that we are in," she explains, illustrating the importance of adaptability and empathy.

Another critical topic is the evolving role of technology, specifically Artificial Intelligence. Both Colleen Maeder and Dr. Jill Creighton recognize AI's double-edged potential: while it evokes new concerns about academic integrity, it also offers opportunities for innovation in supporting and reaching students. Despite challenges, the human element of care and personal connection remains irreplaceable.

Building trust and fostering belonging remains at the core. Many community college students have faced systems that let them down, making it vital for student affairs professionals to be truly present. Colleen Maeder discusses the imperative for in-person support, consistent follow-through, and programming tailored to diverse populations and needs.

The episode also addresses a persistent challenge: effectively communicating the value of student affairs. Too often, student affairs professionals are "really, really bad at this," Colleen admits. She calls for improved storytelling—sharing real, transformative moments and personalized successes—to enhance understanding both within and outside higher education.

If you're searching for inspiration, practical insights, and a celebration of the deeply human work at the heart of student affairs, this episode is a must-listen. Tune in to hear firsthand stories and advice from passionate professionals who are shaping the future of higher education—one student at a time.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:02]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts brought to you by naspa. We curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you happen to be. This is season 13 on the value of student affairs. I'm Dr. Jill Creighton. She her hers your Essay Voices from the Field host.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:27]: Today on SA Voices, we're welcoming Colleen Maeder. Colleen earned her Bachelor of Arts in Sociology from Lemoyne College and a Master of Science in Community Counseling from Syracuse University. Her journey in higher education began as a resident Director at Binghamton University and the College of New Jersey. She later discovered her passion for community colleges while serving in the conduct office at Kingsborough Community College in New York City. Colleen transitioned to the private sector at New York University, where she advanced to Associate Director for Student Conduct and Restorative programs, focusing on Title IX conflict resolution and restorative practices. Her career then took her to the west coast where she served as Associate Director for Student Wellbeing at Santa Clara University, supporting non clinical mental health and basic needs. Today, Colleen is the Director of Student Services at Miracosta College's San Elijo campus and Deputy Title IX Coordinator. Her portfolio includes student life and leadership, student government conduct, Title IX behavioral intervention, and basic needs support.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:19]: Outside of work, Colleen enjoys yoga, running, hiking, and traveling with her partner. Colleen, welcome to Essay Voices.

Colleen Maeder [00:01:26]: Thank you so much for having me today, Jill.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:28]: It is just such a pleasure to have you on the show. For our Essay Voices listeners. I used to host a different podcast for another professional association, and Colleen was our audio engineer and co producer on that show. She and I pretty much had no idea what we were doing when we started it, and by the time we were finished, we had produced 45 episodes. That was an oral history of that corner of the profession. And so it's really lovely to be reunited with you in podcast land.

Colleen Maeder [00:01:51]: I am thrilled to be here and I can't believe we did. So you said 45 episodes?

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:54]: Something like that? Yeah, about 45.

Colleen Maeder [00:01:56]: That is an insane amount of episodes. But it was an awesome experience to do and learn something I never tried before.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:01]: And even though Colleen has spent so many hours behind the scenes doing editing, this is her first time in front of the mic. So we're glad to have your voice included in the story of the student affairs profession. And we always like to get to know our guests first by asking you, how did you get to your current seat?

Colleen Maeder [00:02:17]: Absolutely. So I think I started as mosted where I was a resident assistant in undergrad for my junior and senior year and didn't quite know what I wanted to do. So I decided to go to grad school, which was the common thing back then. And I got my master's in counseling and was unlucky to graduate right in 08 during the crash that took place and decided to work in res life because that's what I knew, that's what I liked, that's where I felt at home. So I became a residence director at Binghamton University. I had the experience of overseeing a residence hall that was a break housing building. So it was open all year, it never shut down. And the main students that it held were international students and student athletes.

Colleen Maeder [00:02:58]: So very unique combination of students there to manage in a residence hall and living together in suites. From there I went to the College of New Jersey, which is a public school, four year school in New Jersey, of course, where I was a resident instructor for several different buildings there. Absolutely loved it and had a phenomenal experience working with our Office of Student Conduct and was really able to start with the assistant director at the time, Elizabeth Gallus Mediation Program, and just kind of fell in love with that world, fell in love with student and how do we become educational? How do we resolve conflict without getting to student conduct? And from there that led me to my first experience outside of residential life, which was at Kingsborough Community College where I was a student conduct officer. Really unique, normal title, Student conduct officer. You don't hear that a lot. And it was this community college in Brooklyn. The claim to fame that I used to tell people was we had a beach on campus, loved it there, did a lot of work, really, really enjoyed the community college experience, which we'll get back to where I am right now. But from there I switched and went to nyu, so New York University, right in the heart of New York, and worked in their student conduct office where I met you.

Colleen Maeder [00:04:09]: I mean, we started the podcast and really was there all the way through Covid 2021. Loved the experience and I was in the student conduct office, but I focused heavily in the world of Title nine. I did a lot of work with our Office of Equal Opportunity, oversaw hearings, started a conflict resolution process, did a lot of conflict resolution training. So a very unique position in the world of student conduct that I haven't seen many other place. Loved NYU but really wanted to get out of New York City after Covid. So in 2021 I had the opportunity to work at Santa Clara University, which is up in the Bay Area south of San Francisco as the Associate Director for Student Wellbeing in the Dean of Students office. And it was non clinical mental health. Absolutely.

Colleen Maeder [00:04:51]: Loved it. It was a bucket list item for me to work at a Jesuit school. Cause I went to a Jesuit undergrad and I was lucky enough to meet my partner in the Bay Area who was transferred down to San Diego, which is how I got to Miracosta. Currently the Director of Student Services at our San Leo campus and I'm also a deputy Title IX coordinator here.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:10]: One of the things I love about your experience is that I think you're one of the few in the profession that have transitioned from a two year institution to a four year institution, to a two year to a four year and back to a two year. And you've also worked at both public and private institutions. So you've got this incredible diversity of experience in student affairs, which gives you kind of a bird's eye view in a unique way of why student affairs matters and why it has mattered over time. So this season we're focusing on the value of student affairs and I'm wondering if we can hone in a bit on your community college experience. And can you talk to us about what you can say about the community college experience as a professional compared to your experiences at four years?

Colleen Maeder [00:05:51]: Absolutely. And I have been lucky enough to work at two different community college experiences. In some way they are very, very similar in the sense that student affairs at a community college needs to actually represent the community where you are. So my college is located in North County, San Diego right now. Kingsborough Community College was located in Brooklyn. Everything we do should be a reflection of the community that we in. So who are the students that we're serving? What are their needs? What are we worried about? How do we help them be able to come to our campus, get to our campus, be able to take classes, whether it's online, hybrid or in person. What does that look like? What does the student experience look like? When I was at Kingsborough, this was pre Covid, right after Hurricane Sandy.

Colleen Maeder [00:06:36]: That's going to look very different than a post Covid world. But we are really trying to what are the current needs to what our community is? And what do we think the current needs are going to be 5, 10, 15 years from now? And what do we need to do as student affairs to make sure that we are meeting not just the needs of our current students, but planning for the future because we should grow with our community.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:57]: Having a beach on campus sounds really interesting until you realize there's a hurricane coming right at Your campus and the water level of your campus is right on that beach.

Colleen Maeder [00:07:04]: I started directly afterwards. We had a nice. There was a lot of flooding. I was told after that experience.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:10]: Absolutely. So when you think about your current student population, can you tell us who they are? Your university or your college has multiple campuses. So who are the students that attend Miracosta and what are the needs that you're meeting as a community college student affairs squad that maybe you're seeing the four years not doing?

Colleen Maeder [00:07:27]: Yes. So I will say Miracosta is a proud hsi. I'm very cautious saying that on a podcast right now, given the current political context. But we are a very proud hsi. We really want to make sure that we are serving all of our students. So we have anything from. We have the traditional student age population. We have adult students who are making the difficult choice to say, you know what, I'm going to step back from maybe my employment to go to school to better myself, to be able to then get a better job, to support my family.

Colleen Maeder [00:07:56]: We are working with students who. We have a large population of seniors who come back and take classes. We have a high level of basic needs and food insecurity that we are helping with our students at. We have a black and Latinx population that we are supporting and wanting to continue to grow and nurture all of these populations because they are what makes up North County San Diego, and we are here to support them in having our students reach their dreams and succeed in whatever avenue they want, whether it is an associate's degree, an associate's degree to transfer. We do have a bachelor's program on campus. We have many certificate programs through our tci, which is our certificate location. So really finding the. What is it? What do we need to do to be able to support our students in whatever their goal is? And that's gonna look different depending on the student population, depending on the time of year, and depending on what their go.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:08:48]: With such diverse student needs, with ranges of populations from students that are earning their first degrees right out of high school to those adult learners that you've mentioned, how does a student affairs division organize itself to meet needs on such an individualized level while still kind of stratifying across administration like we know we have to.

Colleen Maeder [00:09:06]: Absolutely. So I think some of it is just open lines of communication. It's not being afraid to pick up the phone and ask questions or say to a student, you know what? I'm not the person to help you, but I'm gonna connect you with this person in this office, and I'm gonna do that one handoff. Whether they're currently on my campus, walking them to that class, walking them to that office, whether it's sending that E introduction. I think it's also in terms of future planning, which Miracosta does this really, really well, is what does the future look like? What are kind of the signals that are going on outside of higher education that we need to pay attention to? How do we continue to support and what does that look like? How are we using our benefits? I think there's a lot of negative viewpoints right now on AI and how that's going to impact the workforce. But is there a way that we can utilize AI to better reach our students, to provide supplemental education, to be able to get them answers or help them through a process where we know higher education is complex? How do we make it less complex and easier for someone to understand, especially if they are first generation or returning to education and they've been gone for two decades, three decades? So what are we doing right now to make it easier for our students? And this is something where our division, we are across multiple campuses. We get together the senior leadership in our division once a month to be able to talk about some of these things. And I haven't always seen that on other places I've worked at.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:32]: You mentioned AI as a potential tool. I'm currently teaching a master's class on technology competencies and AI integration and student affairs. How are you all figuring that out on your campus?

Colleen Maeder [00:10:43]: So I think the key word is figuring it out, and I think it's trial and error. I think it's one as professionals should be trying different AI tools so that we understand what the benefits are, but also what are some of the concerns? How do we have conversations with students from a purely basic level? I do student conduct right now, and we have academic integrity issues that are almost all coming from the use of AI. How are we teaching our faculty, teaching our staff, teaching our students to use AI appropriately? And I think the issue is no one has figured that out yet. So we're kind of figuring this out as we go. And I've tried the past month or two to try things with AI to see what students are using to understand kind of that perspective. And I think we have to also be early adapters of that. I'm not as early as other people, but I am learning it. I'm trying to figure out how to use it appropriately or use it when it can be an added benefit, but when you need to stop using it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:41]: We had Dr. Claire Brady on last season and she just wrote the NASPA AI report. And one of the things she said on the podcast is that higher ed is in danger of getting stuck in the academic integrity segment of AI without thinking about all of the other things that Gen AI could be doing for our campuses. I think that's such an important message. But I also understand that there are instructors and professors out there who are doing kind of keystroke analysis too, and having students like show their progressive videos of them writing their essays instead of of seeing a copy and paste of a ChatGPT essay or something like that. But it's an interesting lesson in cognitive development. I also saw a study recently that there's cognitive decline in people who use regular aigen for kind of solving problems rather than trying to think through the problem themselves first. So we've got a lot to kind of negotiate through how AI can benefit us, but I think it's not going to be able to replace that human element of care and that human element of empathy that we really employ in student affairs more than any other skill.

Colleen Maeder [00:12:37]: Absolutely. And I went down a little bit of a rabbit hole the other week when I was doing some research for a work project about loneliness and just how much loneliness can be tied to social media and AI. If you're just gonna rely on AI, you're losing the human interaction of engaging with someone to find out that answer to think critically about. Oh, here is all this information. Am I gonna challenge it? I'm just gonna automatically assume that it's correct. And we know AI is not always correct. So how are we balancing using that while understanding the loneliness is on our eyes and the impact that it has to our marginalized communities as well as education, social media. And it's just so this interconnected web of everything, this is a total aside.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:17]: But I also read something recently where someone had married an AI chatbot or something to that effect, and then the company that ran the chatbot shut down or was bought and the AI was no longer being updated. And so that person essentially lost their relationship. And it's an interesting question to on how you define a relationship with an algorithm at the end of the day. So, total aside. But I know if these things are in the media, that our students are also experiencing them.

Colleen Maeder [00:13:43]: Absolutely.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:43]: Colleen, you've spent time at both the two year experience and the four year experience, and you've talked a bit about how the two year experience is a lot more personalized and tailored. I'm wondering how you are different as a Professional when you're in each type of environment.

Colleen Maeder [00:13:57]: Yeah, I think that's a great question. Where it's my values haven't changed with whether I'm working at a four year public, a four year private versus a two year. But I think it's how you go about and how you interact with students and with others while also trying to navigate. Most two years are public institutions and there's a lot, at least in California you have ed code. So you're constantly of what is current ed code, what is the law as well as in how do you serve students and how do you work with them on that. And I think I'm gonna speak in very broad strokes. I think sometimes the needs at a community colle are much more basic than when you're at a four year private institution that is primary residential for the first year or two. I think at a community college it's you have to build trust.

Colleen Maeder [00:14:43]: I think there's a mistrust of higher education. There's why is higher education important? And I think the students who tend to go to four year schools at first know that there is an inherent benefit of going to college. Going into higher education where I feel like at a community college sometimes it's this, okay, I know I need to get the degree, but how do you explain to them the services that we have can help you do better, can help you succeed. So sometimes it's like we're the safety net. When you are at a community college or four year institution and you don't have enough food on the table, you're not going to do as well as you would if you had enough food and nutrition. If you are worried about where you're going to sleep at night, if you're worried about the safety of your family, if you're worried about an eviction, that's all going to impact you in the academic state. So it's how do you really build that connection to have students trust you, trust the institution you're at enough to be able to help them succeed. And I think that can be a struggle sometimes.

Colleen Maeder [00:15:41]: It's really trying to build those connections because we know what the issues are in our community. We have to help students overcome some of those issues and kind of lift them up to be able to support them in that.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:53]: When you're talking about students who have high food security needs or housing security needs, you're probably also talking about people who have had the system work against them a lot in their lead up into being into your college. And so you're Asking those students to trust a system when systems have never been there for them in the past. What strategies are you using to help them engage with the system and then get them to work with you so you can support them?

Colleen Maeder [00:16:19]: You know, I think the first thing is you have to actually be here in person. And I know remote work is wonderful. I've had. I worked remote during COVID I've had the opportunity at previous institutions to have one or two remote dates. But people don't want to talk to someone on the phone. They don't want to talk to someone via email. They want to actually see someone. They want to know that this person cares and that they're not being treated as a number.

Colleen Maeder [00:16:42]: And I think that can be really difficult at times is how do we have this connection? How do we show up in person? How do we keep showing up? I think one of my biggest frustrations is if you have this mission and vision and these hallmarks of what your division should do, what your school should do, what your community college district should do, where are you actually following, following through on that? And I feel like these buzzwords that people say, well, you actually have to put that into action. You actually have to do that. And I think it's little by little, it's being visible on campus. It's following through on what you say that you're going to do. If we're going to say we're going to fund something, we're going to fund something. If we're going to say we're going to be there for students, we're going to be there for students, and really communicating that and rebuilding a lot of that mistrust that has been caused throughout the system. I think it's showing them and acknowledging we know not only this is potentially a cost to you, but it's also a cost in the sense that if you're going to class, you're not going to be at work. If you're going to class, who might be watching your children, if you have children, if you're going to class, if it's an online, we're assuming you have a safe space to take a class.

Colleen Maeder [00:17:48]: We're assuming you have access to Internet. And I think it's a lot of these. How do we make sure we can get all of that to students? And this is something where Miracosta. I'm very, very privileged to work at an institution that believes in mission and vision and actually follows through on that.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:03]: Anything interesting, innovative or exciting happening at Miracosta, that maybe other student affairs professionals Would love to hear about.

Colleen Maeder [00:18:10]: Yeah, I think one of the things I just did was they have a CANVA course for open up to all faculty and staff and it's all about futures basically. What does the future look like? How do we pick up? And I mentioned this previously on these signals that might be coming up that we want to pay attention to. Not quite sure if it's going to lead somewhere, but if it does, an example is rewind. 10, 15 years ago with AI, there was an opportunity for all of us to get more on board with this. And what does that look like? What are our fellow colleagues across the world doing in higher education? I think it's paying attention to. We know right now in higher education that there is going to be a dwindling K through 12 population. We know that. How are we planning for that? I think that we know right now that mental health, at least for teens, that 18 to 24 year old, they're going through a mental health crisis.

Colleen Maeder [00:19:00]: So are we staffing up our counseling centers? And what are we doing to help students feel like they actually belong on our campus? What programs are we doing? How are we connecting with students? How are we connecting students with other students? So it's all about what are we kind of looking at? What are the signals at play and then what do we do about it? And it's paying attention to the little stuff to then have that help develop whatever that strategic plan is going to be.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:19:25]: How are you all creating belonging when you know you have a population that's maybe on campus just for the moment they're taking class, or a population that's attending kind of all hours of the day, you might have students that are only there in the morning or students that are only there in the evening or only certain days of the week.

Colleen Maeder [00:19:38]: Our campus, at least at the main campus, we have offices open until at least 7 o' clock at night. And I think that plays a big factor is having some of those extended hours. I think we're taking a look at how do we reach student populations that we might not have done a great job in the past. So we have an adult population, an adult population in the 30s, 40s and 50s. How you program and how you reach them is going to look very different than an 18 to 24 year old population. We have a high rate Latinx students. What are we doing to program towards them? We are an hsi. We can say we're an hsi, but we should be doing a whole host of things because we are a designated hsi.

Colleen Maeder [00:20:15]: We are here to serve our students. And I think that is what gets lost sometimes. Where we are here solely for our students. Students, yes, it is great to be employed but if our students aren't successful then we're not doing our jobs. And I think it's constantly going back to we are here to serve our students and to help them get that.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:33]: Degree to change gears a minute. As a person who's been at both kind of that traditional four year and that two year institution, what advice would you give for a four year professional who wants to transition to community college work? And what advice would you give to a two year professional who wants to transition to a four year.

Colleen Maeder [00:20:47]: So that's a great question. One you should just do it. I think people get very, very comfortable in. I've always worked for a public four year institution. I'm only going to stay at public four year institutions or I've only worked at a community college. That's where I'm comfortable. I think if you want that experience, put yourself out there and do that and do your research. I think that.

Colleen Maeder [00:21:08]: Well, I will say right now, I think across the board every institution of higher education right now is struggling with budget and funding. So I think that is a commonality right now. But when you go from a public to a private, a community college to a private for budgets can look very, very different. How you spend money looks very, very different. I think that public schools have a little bit more leeway at times when it comes to some things versus a community college where community colleges, we are public institutions. That means that we can have protests on campus, that people can come onto our campus and we can't ask them to leave unless they are actively violating and becoming disruptive. They have a right to be there. And that can be very frustrating.

Colleen Maeder [00:21:47]: Especially if you've only ever worked at a private institution where it looks a little bit different. And some of the things you can do at a private institution you can't always do at a public institution and vice versa. But I think when it comes to a community college, if you want to work at a community college and I would encourage everyone to have that experience because I have loved it. I wouldn't have returned to a community college experience if I didn't enjoy my first time at one. But I think it's understanding that community college students may have greater needs and you're reaching them on a different level. At the same time you're going to have a greater impact than sometimes always working at a four year institution or a private institution. And I think it's understanding that students will come and go. It's not this trajectory of you start your first year on campus, you become a second year, then a junior and then a senior, and then you graduate.

Colleen Maeder [00:22:38]: You might know someone who's working through to get their associate's degree and it takes them five or six years because they're living their life as they do this. And I think the celebrations become greater at a community college. I think being able to see students who really took the initiative, not that you don't take the initiative at a four year institution, but I think sometimes the risks are greater for community college students because they're not always the traditional students that has the family support. They're actually making that decision to go to school full time as well as work a full time job, as well as trying to raise a family. And it just looks a little bit different and you need to be cognizant of that. But I encourage anyone, if they're thinking about wanting to work at a community college, to absolutely take the risk, apply for that job. It is a phenomenal experience. And just as the flip side, I think people sometimes like, oh, I've only worked at a community college experience.

Colleen Maeder [00:23:30]: I don't have that four year experience at a residential campus. Take the risk. It is a great experience. And I think the more experiences you get, the stronger it makes you as a professional to be able to support all students.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:42]: I'm going to transition us into our theme questions for the season. So we've been asking all of our guests the same three questions on the value of student affairs. Our first question is, when you think about the value of student affairs, what comes to mind first and why?

Colleen Maeder [00:23:55]: So I really thought about this when you sent me this question because I don't know if we necessarily always talk about the value of student affairs. I think we talk around it, but we don't actually talk about the value of student affairs and the importance of student affairs. And I think for me it is, we are here to help students and individuals grow and develop both inside the classroom. So the academic sense as well as outside of the classroom. When you think of student affairs, depending on the institution you're at, it can include anything from advising to health services, to counseling and psychological service to public safety, college, police, athletics, career, internship, your basic needs, your residential life and housing, student conduct. It can be so wide ranging that we are kind of that. I'm not saying that lifeboat that can help students along, but also that springboard to help students try something new. I think it's that leadership opportunity that some of our students get.

Colleen Maeder [00:24:50]: You know, our student government, our clubs in orgs, that experience there helps them figure out how they work in a team. What is this going to look like when they have a professional job and they have to work as a team? What does it look like when we're able to. We have food pantries on campus, we're able to provide food to a student to help them get through the next day or two so they can focus on their classes. What does this mean to the student athlete to also have strong academic counseling as well? It's this bullet both and, and I think this is where student affairs really is the supplemental experience to the academic that is just as important sometimes where we want them to get the degree, but we also want them to have this experience and have the services they need. So if they do struggle, we can help them overcome those struggles and get to that finish line.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:38]: Our second question is, can you share a specific story or moment when you saw the value of student affairs come to life?

Colleen Maeder [00:25:44]: I can't identify one moment, but I can identify the feeling I had during those moments. And it's this feeling of a student saying to you, I don't know if I would be here. I don't know if I would have been able to finish this class. It's the thank you for not giving up on me when everyone else did. It's the parent saying, thank you for being there for my student when I couldn't be. And it's this underlying feeling of I made that in something that student affairs did change the trajectory of this individual's experience to help them succeed. And I think it's the underlying things that we do that we don't realize we do on a daily basis, but all of us do so well. And it's across the division of student affairs that without that service, that connection, that relationship, that student might not have been able to do what they needed to do at that time.

Colleen Maeder [00:26:37]: So for me, if I had to pick an experience, I worked with a student for two years at a prior institution and they really struggled adjusting their college life for a variety of reasons. And the student ended up writing a story and framed one of the characters around how they viewed me. And that was really like, this is why I do what I do. And I have to this day, and it's up on my wall right now, I have the drawing of the character as well as kind of the tagline next to the character that kind of reminds me of this is why student affair is valuable. It's this relationship, it's this connection. It's helping that student feel like they belong. And that for me is important. And that is why I think that we continue to do what we do.

Colleen Maeder [00:27:20]: It doesn't matter if you work in career services. It doesn't matter if you're in athletics or campus safety or student conduct. We all do this for the reason of helping students.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:28]: And our final question, what do you think student affairs needs to do to be better understood and better seen in today's educational environment?

Colleen Maeder [00:27:35]: We need to tell our story better. We are really, really bad at this. And I can say that even just answering the two questions before, and I was like, I know, I know what the value of student affairs is. I wouldn't have spent, I think it's 17 years of my professional life in student affairs if I didn't believe in it. But we don't tell our story well. We don't explain to non higher education folks, quite frankly, we don't explain to faculty half the time the value and the importance of student affairs. And I think this is only become more and more important as we see the attack on higher education continue, as we see budgets get cut as our future students determine whether or not they want to come to college. And I think that is huge.

Colleen Maeder [00:28:16]: We have to do better at telling our story and who we are and not just saying, oh, come get a degree, because if you get a degree, you're getting a higher paying job. Well, that's not necessarily reflective in the data anymore. So we need to do better in the. And we needed to better about telling those individualized stories so students can see. I can see myself here, a faculty member can say, I can see the value of what student affairs brings and I understand the importance to that. So that to me is kind of we just need to do better telling our story. And also we need to change a little bit faster with the times. I think higher education is very reactive.

Colleen Maeder [00:28:51]: Instead of being proactive as you're talking.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:53]: About telling our story, I think that's probably the number one thing I've heard repeatedly from all of our guests this season, which tells us it must be true. And if you're listening to this episode, but did if you didn't catch our episode with Dr. Ana Gonzalez, Dr. Lori Reaser and Dr. Michelle Murray, please go and listen to that one because they Just Co authored NASPA's latest report, the Human Dimension of College why Student Affairs Matters. And that also includes a toolkit that's right on the NASPA website where you can input your own data and use that as an external storytelling device for your senior administration that aren't in student affairs, for your local council people or whoever else you need to be telling the story to that's not internal. Because the number one thing I've heard over and over this season is that we're okay at telling our story to ourselves. We're pretty good at telling our story to our students, but we are terrible at telling our story externally, even to our own families.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:42]: So there's just so much that we can do there. So I appreciate you reaffirming that message for us anytime.

Colleen Maeder [00:29:48]: I always laugh when people are like, how's school going? And I'm like, well, I haven't been in school for a very, very long time now, but work is going really well. Thank you for asking.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:56]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the the NASA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:02]: Thanks, Jill. So excited to be back in the NASA world, and there's a ton of things happening in NASA. We're getting really close to the early registration deadline for the NASA Annual Conference. The early registration Deadline ends on December 17, 2025 in Kansas, Missouri. We'll celebrate the essential heart work of student affairs and higher education. So we hope that you'll come together with us to uplift students, communities and each other at the 128th gathering of the Association. Interesting fact about Kansas City Kansas City earned its Heart of America nickname because it sits at the geographic center of the contiguous United States. And just as student affairs professionals create inclusive campus communities, Kansas City has built its identity on bringing people together.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:51]: From smoothie jazz, filling historic clubs to legendary barbecue that put Kansas City on the culinary map, this city celebrates both heritage and future, much like NASA honors our profession's roots while innovating for tomorrow. So at this national conference you have some opportunities, some opportunities to come out and be able to explore the city. Whether it's at the Nelson Atkins Museum or learning more about the Kansas City Current, which is pioneering the future of the Women's Professional Soccer League, or visiting the Negro League's Baseball Museum Museum, which honors athletes who changed the game and American history. These among many, many opportunities to learn and to grow and reconnect with friends and colleagues. The NASPA Annual Association Meeting is one you will not want to miss again. The annual conference is March 7th through the 11th in Kansas City, Missouri, and we hope to see you there. There's a new book coming out from NASPA that you can order today. Basic Counseling Skills for Higher Education Professionals Identifying and Addressing Men Health Concerns is a book that is being brought to you by Rebecca Schultz and Maureen Kenny.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:05]: When college students are in a mental health crisis, they often turn to a peer or a trusted faculty or staff member first. As the number of students struggling with mental health issues continues to rise, higher education professionals are called upon to do even more. Basic Counseling Skills for Higher Education Professionals equips college and university leaders leaders with the basic knowledge and skills to address and respond to students with mental health concerns. The authors provide foundational information on the signs and symptoms of the most common mental health issues educators are most likely to encounter in their daily work, as well as guidance on how and when to intervene. With a focus on empathy and core listening skills, this essential resource empowers professional professionals to make effective and positive interventions. As mentioned, this book is available for order right now. I highly encourage you to check it out for yourself. You can go online to the NASPA website under Research and Publications and go to the NASPA Bookstore to find out more.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:33:07]: Also, the early registration Deadline for the 2026 Symposium on Military Connected Students is coming up on December 19th. The 2026 NASPA Symposium on Military Connected Students is the Association's premier event event designed for student affairs practitioners supporting military connected students. The Symposium is your exclusive opportunity to share evidence based practices from your campus or organization, learn from leading researchers in the field, and engage with other professionals committed to supporting military connected students. This three day symposium features keynote sessions, research, policy and best practice presentations and workshop style sessions. Sessions to help campus professionals develop or enhance their programming and services for military connected students. We invite you to connect with colleagues, participate in engaging sessions and learn from dynamic plenary sessions. As mentioned, the early registration deadline is coming up on December 19th. The conference is February 17th through the 20th in Norfolk, Virginia.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:13]: You can find out more on the NASPA web website. Every week we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways. Because the association is as strong as its members and for all of us we have to find our place within the association. Whether it be getting involved with the knowledge community, giving back back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself where do you fit? Where do you want to give back each week. We're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that, or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:29]: Because through doing that, all of us are stronger each and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in naspa.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:40]: Chris, thank you so much for another phenomenal NASPA world. We always appreciate you keeping us informed on what's going on in and around NASA and Colleen. We have reached our last segment, which is our lightning round, and I have seven questions for you in about 90 seconds. Are you ready to roll?

Colleen Maeder [00:35:56]: We're gonna go with it. Let's go.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:57]: Question number one, if you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

Colleen Maeder [00:36:01]: Anything by Taylor Swift. I will just own it. I am a Swifty and I no shame in saying that anymore.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:07]: Question two, when you were five years old, what did you want to be when you grew up?

Colleen Maeder [00:36:10]: I had always wanted to do something in the criminal justice system. A criminologist, a detective. That did not end up happening.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:17]: Number three, who's your most influential professional mentor?

Colleen Maeder [00:36:20]: So one of the people I look back at being really influential and I do not keep in touch with them as much as I should. And you actually know this person is Delmi Lindoff.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:27]: Delmi Lindof, Dr. Lindof is the VPSA at Pratt Institute in New York. It's the Institute of Art and she's an amazing professional. So. Hi Delmi. Number four.

Colleen Maeder [00:36:35]: Hi Delmi. Miss you.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:37]: Number four, your essential student affairs read.

Colleen Maeder [00:36:39]: I will say anything. Restorative justice. I think that if you are going to be in student affairs, you have to be well versed in restorative justice and restorative practices.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:47]: Number five, the best TV show you've been binging lately.

Colleen Maeder [00:36:50]: So I'm the type of person that binge watches TV shows I have watched over and over and over again. So it would be the West Wing, which I always return to every couple years.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:58]: Number six, the podcast you spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

Colleen Maeder [00:37:02]: NPR up first and NPR Politics Now.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:04]: And finally, number seven, any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional?

Colleen Maeder [00:37:08]: Huge shout to my current team here at Miracosta, both the Sanaleo as well as the team up on the Oceanside campus that I work with, as well as shout out to two people at my prior institution, Ashley and Natasha, who are my support system, which I think everyone should have, is that support system that gets you through when the going gets tough.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:28]: Colleen, so glad to have your voice on this side of the podcast. You've done an amazing job representing the Community College Experience Experience today. If anyone would like to get a hold of you after this episode airs, how can they find you?

Colleen Maeder [00:37:39]: Absolutely, you can reach me at C Maeder M A E D E Riracosta.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:45]: Colleen, thank you so much for sharing your voice with us today.

Colleen Maeder [00:37:47]: Thank you so much for having me, Jill it was an experience to be on the other side of a podcast.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:56]: This has been an episode of Essay Voices from the Field brought to you by Nest naspa. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to be so grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email us at [email protected] or find me on LinkedIn by searching for Dr. Jill L. Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions always. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a five star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you're listening Listening now.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:26]: It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton. That's me. Produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan, Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

If you've ever wondered about the real impact of student affairs in higher education—or if you're searching for compelling ways to articulate its value—this episode of "Student Affairs Voices from the Field" is a must-listen. Host Dr. Jill Creighton brings together three leading voices in our field—Dr. Anna Gonzalez, Dr. Lori Reesor, and Dr. Michele Murray—to discuss NASPA's groundbreaking report, The Human Dimension of College: Why Student Affairs Matters.

More than ever, higher education is under scrutiny. Public questions about its worth, declining college-going rates, and increasing skepticism about return-on-investment are creating intense pressure. Against this backdrop, Dr. Anna Gonzalez explains, this report began as a "bold" effort to clarify—and elevate—the unique contributions of student affairs to both the value (market-based outcomes) and worth (intrinsic and societal benefits) of the collegiate experience.

The conversation quickly gets to the heart of what makes student affairs essential. As Dr. Michele Murray points out, college isn't just about earning a degree or improving one's economic prospects; it's a profound period of personal and civic development. The panel identifies seven core dimensions where student affairs "animates" both the value and worth of higher education: career and academic development, civic engagement, access, health and well-being, leadership, innovation, and personal growth.

Listeners will appreciate how candidly Dr. Lori Reesor and Dr. Michele Murray share their own personal journeys and the collaborative process behind the report. They emphasize the vital but often "invisible" work of student affairs—preventing crises, fostering dialogue, and guiding students through transformative moments. They also celebrate the report's new toolkit, which is designed to help professionals tell their story better to external audiences—presidents, trustees, legislators, families, and beyond.

As the discussion closes, the call to action is clear: the time has come to showcase our impact on students and society, both quantitatively and through powerful stories. Whether you're a veteran or a newcomer, this episode offers insights, practical tools, and inspiration to help you articulate why student affairs is more valuable—and more vital—than ever.

Ready to dive deeper? Listen to the full episode and access the toolkit via NASPA's website—start telling the story of student affairs in a whole new way!

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:02]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts brought to you by naspa. We curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you happen to be. This is season 13 on the value of student affairs. I'm Dr. Jill Creighton. She her hers your essay Voices from the Field host today on Essay Voices. We are thrilled to be welcoming the curator and CO authors of NASPA's latest report, the Human Dimension of College why Student Affairs Matters, which is perfect for our season on the value of Student Affairs. We've got three phenomenal student affairs professionals joining us today.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:45]: Our past board chair and curator of this report, Dr. Ana Gonzalez. Welcome, Ana. Hello.

Dr. Michele Murray [00:00:52]: Hi.

Dr. Michele Murray [00:00:52]: Hi Jill.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:53]: Lovely to have you back on Essay Voices. And if Ana's voice sounds familiar, she did one of our episodes in her board chair year. So you can go back to past seasons and check that out. Our second guest is Dr. Lori Reesers. Lori, hello.

Dr. Lori Reesor [00:01:04]: Hi Jill.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:05]: Good morning and welcome. Coming in to us from Wisconsin today And then finally Dr. Michelle Murray.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:01:11]: Michelle, hello.

Dr. Michele Murray [00:01:12]: Hi Jill. Thank you so much for having us.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:14]: And Michelle, one of our good old region fivers. So we've got people from all over, all over the US today. So I want to get started by asking you all how you got to your current seats and then we'll dig into the reports. Ana, I know you've told some of your story before on our pod. You're still at WashU. Anything you want to add to your journey?

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:01:34]: Yes, thanks, Jill. I'm still the Vice Chancellor for Student affairs at Washu. And now the last time I spoke to this podcast, I was actually the NASPA Board chair. I am now on my last year as a NASA board, as the board chair, pass board chair, recent passport chair. So I think that's all that's changed.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:51]: And Lori, it's your first time here on SA Voices. You were at UW Madison. What you have going on in terms of your journey and how you got to that seat.

Dr. Lori Reesor [00:01:59]: Yeah, thanks, Jill. It's great to be on and my first podcast. So a little nervous but a little excited. I have spent almost my whole career in student affairs. This is my third ssao job and it was a way to continue doing the work as a student affairs leader, but also come back home to my home state of Wisconsin. So it's a win win for me and my family and just excited to be doing the work.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:20]: And in our pre show chat I mentioned my mom is an alum of UW Madison, as well as all of her siblings and her dad. So I have to say, go bad on behalf of my fam.

Dr. Lori Reesor [00:02:29]: Go badgers. Love it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:30]: And Michelle, welcome to our show for your very first time. We're excited to have you former region fiverr. Now region one person, tell us how you got to your current seat.

Dr. Michele Murray [00:02:40]: Yeah, sure. So I'm at the College of the Holy Cross here in Worcester, Massachusetts, and it's my third Jesuit institution. My second time as the senior student affairs officer. But also at Holy Cross, I serve as the senior mission officer as well. So staying very busy and we like.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:57]: To see that VPSA em in combination. I think you get a much more unique perspective on the whole arc of the student experience when you're going from recruitment to graduation.

Dr. Michele Murray [00:03:07]: Sorry, you know what? It's not admission, it's mission. So. So the Jesuit Catholic mission and identity of the institution.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:15]: Excellent. Well, we're here today because you all have put out the latest NASPA report. And Ana, this began as a charge under your board chairship. Can you talk to us about why this report? Why what drove the board in this direction to create this.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:03:31]: That's great. So when I got elected as board chair elect, I've been really. I was really thinking, where are we going in terms of as a student affairs as a profession? It was a time when people were saying they wanted to leave the profession. How hard it was a little past Covid and really thinking of the value of student affairs and why student affairs and why higher education. The numbers were shocking in terms of people not wanting to go to higher education, not believing in our. And then in many ways student affairs over the years being blamed or being shut down, but yet being needed when times of COVID or other disasters were happening. And so it was really trying to get the lay of the land to really respond and frankly to look up bold ideas about why student affairs is actually the value proposition in higher education and why I believe we bring worth to the institution of higher education. But is that right? Is that just my voice? And so getting really a group of experts in the field and then being led and tapping Michelle and Lori to lead that discussion has been like an honor for me.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:04:42]: And I just love how the report ended up to be. But it was really that response in my head thinking, what is the worth of higher education? And as a first generation college student, I always knew the worth. But it seems like so many people are questioning it now.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:55]: Absolutely. And we're seeing a shift in how the value of higher education is being perceived across The US Right now in terms of what does the value of that education mean for everything from employability through positionality in society and other things. So this is very, very timely for what we're seeing. How did you select Lori and Michelle to be leading the charge forward?

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:05:20]: They are brilliant. So I've known both of them in different capacities, met them both through naspa. Lori, during my first time as a senior student affairs officer, she actually invited me to be on a panel at a session. And then Michelle, she started kind of taking on different leadership roles, and so. And then culminating when she was the conference chair. I was always like, she's so cool. Both of them are so great and cool. Both of them also represent different regions, right? The east coast, the Midwest, large R1, and then a private Jesuit institution.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:05:55]: And so all of the things mattered to me. And so I wanted brilliant leadership and then different experiences in the field.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:02]: You started with a blank slate and idea to represent the value proposition of student affairs. What was the charge to Laurie and Michelle when you invited them to participate in this new adventure?

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:06:12]: It was so funny because I come up with great ideas, and then I did get brilliant people to actually make it happen. And they did. But the charge was to think boldly, to really center the conversation in our contributions in this profession and in the world. Why does someone choose to go to higher education? Everyone gets a degree when you go to higher ed, or you hope to. But what are the unique things that actually enhance it? What increases the value of that education? And so I kept saying, it's student affairs, centering student affairs into dialogue, into discussion. And we've had some fun conversations. They were like, oh, this is going to be a little bold, a little scary. I'm not sure our other colleagues would believe it.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:06:56]: And so just kind of pushing that through. And they both said yes. And so I love that. And. And they both led the conversation in terms of making sure that the right kind of individuals, in terms of who they represented, really fit in the group.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:10]: All right, Lori and Michelle, you get the call from Ana. She says, please help us build this thing. Tell us what your experience was putting together the task force, as well as figuring out what the heck you were going to write about beyond this idea.

Dr. Lori Reesor [00:07:23]: I'm happy to start. First of all, I'm a huge fan girl of both Ana and Michelle, so you can't say no to Ana Gonzalez. I think everybody knows that. And in all true confession and transparency, I didn't get her vision. I knew she had it, but I wasn't sure like, just like she said, like, what are we doing? Like, I get the concept, I get the. But, like, how are we going to do this? And I'm a little bit more on the operational kind of strength. I think of things. And so I think that's just a lesson to, honestly, to NASA members is sometimes you get asked and you're like, okay, I'm in.

Dr. Lori Reesor [00:07:56]: I don't really. I don't think this is my strength. I really didn't. But then when she partnered us with me and Michelle, which was like, oh, my gosh, again, everybody knows Michelle Murray and the, you know, the savior of the NASPA conference and all these other things, I mean, it was just like, no. Yes, it's true. It's true. She's shaking her head. Anyway, it was just an honor and privilege and then to work with really amazing people, too.

Dr. Lori Reesor [00:08:19]: Right. So that was the other gift, is that the three of us then got to put together our team. We wanted to really make sure that all regions were represented. Represented. It represented all types of institutions. And so then that made it really, really rich as well. And so I described us as kind of a think tank. And that was, again, really an honor and privilege.

Dr. Lori Reesor [00:08:38]: And I think Ana might have been desperate in. In picking me to do this, but that's okay. It was fun. It was fun. It was good. It was a good stretch for me. It was a good stretch for me.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:08:46]: I'm going to interrupt to say the funny part is that I forgot to say why I picked Lori. She talked about Michelle's great, amazing, the conference, saving us and sharing that despite all Lori's strength is Lori asks questions. And so she always makes me think, like, we sit on other different boards and committees. And I love that Lori thinks things through and asks questions. She doesn't just say, this is how it's going to be. So that is why.

Dr. Lori Reesor [00:09:13]: That's so sweet, Ana.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:14]: So my.

Dr. Lori Reesor [00:09:15]: One of my NASA awards, I have a plaque over in my office says, ask the hard questions. And so thank you. Thank you for that. That's so sweet.

Dr. Michele Murray [00:09:22]: I absolutely see that. And I think, Laurie, you and I were very different, but we work together so well, and I love that you do ask questions. You're also really methodical about how we go about things, and that helped us make sure that no stone was left unturned. And really attending to all the different intricacies that were a part of the discussions that we had, and you made sure that. That we accomplished our goals. Right. It just was really helpful, I think. Jill, your question was what happened when we got the call.

Dr. Michele Murray [00:10:00]: So let me go back to that and say, yeah, I was surprised. Lori is 100% right. No one says no to Ana. So I knew that wasn't even an option. And I absolutely understood. I thought Ana was prescient in being able to identify that there's a public concern about whether or not it's worth it to go to college and what's happening at our at higher ed institutions. And I already had a concern for myself that were some populations of young people being discouraged from college attendance. And so having this opportunity to really dig in and describe what it is that happens for students when they pursue a degree was, I think, really very meaningful to me.

Dr. Michele Murray [00:10:48]: And so, as Ana said, right. People attend a class college because they're hoping to get a degree. They work hard to earn that degree, and that's one piece of it. There needs to be of economic benefit in terms of employability at the end. And I get that too. And there is something that's happening during college attendance that's really about an informed citizenry, that's really about how people work and live together that is less talked about and less known. But still, as a society, we rely on all of that. We rely on that human development.

Dr. Michele Murray [00:11:26]: So having an opportunity to think boldly with a group of colleagues about how might we represent this, this side of college attendance that isn't really talked about very much, how do we represent it fairly and in a way that people understand it and can get on the train and believe in its importance? I thought that was a really great vision that Ana had and I'm really feel really lucky to have been a part of it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:54]: I want to make sure we mention for NASPA members, this report is available for free with your membership. It was also sent out in an email earlier in October. So please go back and check it out and you can kind of follow along with our conversation. One of the things that's right up front in the report is the executive summary that distinguishes the importance and delineation of value versus worth. This is such an important component. Our season theme for the podcast is the value of student affairs. As soon as I read this, I went, oh, maybe we should have reframed this as both value and worth. And so I want to just read a moment in the report.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:12:26]: It reads, the value refers to the market based outcomes of higher education such as employment, income and economic security, Whereas worth encompasses the intrinsic and societal benefits of a degree such as civic participation, personal growth, and community vitality. Both are essential and both are strengthened by student affairs. Why did you all decide to anchor the report with this message?

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:12:48]: I can start a little bit and maybe the two of you can jump right in there. You know, I've been thinking a lot about, as I thought about the podcast and this work, I had a trustee at my former institution at Harvey Mudd, and he did not have a college education, did not, and is executive vice president of a major, major corporation. And always said they just thought it was too late to get a college education. But he invests his time and money and energy in college education. And again, saying that there is something both the worth, right, you graduate. But more importantly, he said, there's something that is so valuable about college education that you can't put money on it. But the students learn to be leaders. And so I think in our discussion of value and worth, the different ROIs, what are they and how do we categorize them? But the value and worth piece did not come from me, although that's in a way what I was thinking.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:13:50]: We led to it. So Michelle and Lori can jump in there. But I remember it vividly. The conversation at my dining room table with the committee at my home.

Dr. Michele Murray [00:13:59]: Let me jump in there. And Ana just referenced our first in person meeting. And maybe it was our only in person meeting. It was several days long and she opened her home to us. And so we had these very deep conversations about what is happening for students when they are enrolled in our institutions in a really comfortable, hospitable environment that allowed us to play with the different ideas and identify what it is that we observe and have been observing over the course of our careers. And very quickly, actually, we settled into this conversation about value and worth. And NASPA is doing its strategic planning concurrent to us having these conversations. And so maybe part of it was related to the conversations that NASPA was having separate from this task force.

Dr. Michele Murray [00:14:51]: But almost very quickly, you know, we said there is something that's happening for students in their growth and development that has everything to do with their out of classroom experience. And that's the piece that we have to capture because the public conversation is about the worth of the degree and what happens around employability. And we were focused on how students, the only words I have for this is how they come home to themselves and discover a bit about who they are and how they want to be in the world. And so that's what we wanted to identify as. At least that's my recollection of how that all came together.

Dr. Lori Reesor [00:15:32]: You can tell Michelle's Mission driven purpose in life always comes through which I adore and respect and admire so much. And that was a huge integral part of this project too, I think. Like Ana, I'm a first generation college student and going to college changed my life. I'm the oldest of six children. I'm the only one that finished college. And I love all my siblings and they have great lives, but they have different lives and in a lot of ways and so I'm grateful. And that's what propelled me to go into student affairs, that's what propels me to stay in this work, is that I truly believe higher education changes lives and I believe higher education changes society and democracy and all of those really important things. And I respect it's not for everybody.

Dr. Lori Reesor [00:16:14]: I totally get that. And that's part of that narrative out there. So I do struggle a little bit with elitism and those messages that are coming out in our society or from some sectors of our society. And yet I think it should be be a core value of education. It should be a core value of learning. And so learning can happen in lots of different ways and lots of different places and with lots of different strengths. But it's learning either a subject matter, whether that's political science or biology, or how to be a great plumber, all those things are about learning. And then I think the other piece though, that that is where we do make this difference is about, as Michelle said, learning about oneself and one's community and the broader world as well.

Dr. Lori Reesor [00:16:57]: And so that is the piece that I do have a bias that I think would be great that everybody does focus on that. And if they don't do it through higher education, okay, then I hope that they do it in some other forms. And maybe it's through their religious or other communities or some of those other kinds of things. But we have to get better in our society about caring more about others and respect and dignity for all of humankind. And I do believe that's a huge. I always struggle with the value and worth that's a huge worth that we provide in student affairs and through higher education. So those were some of the important things that we were trying to document. And I just want to give a quick shout out because I don't want to forget this.

Dr. Lori Reesor [00:17:31]: And I know Michelle and Ana will jump in on this too. Brian Sponsler helped, was really, really instrumental and he was our consultant that worked with us on this project and a phenomenal thinker and writer. And I just want to, he really helped also, I think, shape some of this conversation and the value and worth. So we had a great committee and everybody contributed and they were all fabulous. But Brian absolutely deserves a huge shout out for the great work that he did. And so thank you, Brian, on behalf of us and NASPA, all of higher education.

Dr. Michele Murray [00:18:02]: I 100% agree with that. Thank you, Brian.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:18:04]: Thanks, Brian.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:05]: Ultimately, you landed on seven dimensions that represent areas of student affairs and as you say, animate the value and the worth of our profession. They were career and academic development, civic engagement and community responsibility, access and opportunity, health and well being, leadership and ethical decision making, problem solving and innovation, and personal development and life skills. Our profession is hard to encompass and capture because we work with a lot of intangible pieces of the human experience, with mostly young adults and things like that. So I'm wondering, how did you choose these seven dimensions? Why were they the ones that rose to the top as the most important things to be talking about in the framing of value and worth of student affairs?

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:18:51]: When we started talking about this in our, we call like we had a retreat, an in person retreat. You know, you can't do this work. You can't depend on just the virtual, right? We had to, to really cast it out a few days together. Although some were virtual, it was a hybrid, I guess. But to really sit down and really talk about what is going on in higher education and in student affairs and what is the why? I remember that. What is the purpose? What is the why? And what are people doing? What are the great issues that we were trying to address? And it was a long list. I mean, everyone kind of came in with roi, of course, career and what do we do dialogue. There's the issues of protests or people engaging with one another, all of the things.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:19:34]: And so we started doing that and it started categorizing it and we kept hashing and rehashing it out. And even I think midway through this project, I remember thinking, are we including everything in it? And even issues like well being, you know, we're known for that. And so we basically started with a blank slate of both what the expectations and the work of student affairs are, what the greater issues that we were trying to solve and address in our work. And then I think from there started piecing together groupings, but also hashing it out because an issue for students in community colleges might be different or look different than someone in an R1 and might have more weight than someone in an R1 and vice versa. So I'll start that off to say it was a bit of a, let's put everything on this white big board or whatever we were using. And let's start engaging and trying to figure out who are we, what are we trying to do, what is our value and our worth? What are the issues? I don't know if Laurie and Michelle want to jump into like the selection process of things.

Dr. Michele Murray [00:20:41]: Hannah, you just described the process, I think really well. And, and I would say one of the things, you know, sometimes in student affairs people interact with us as crisis managers, right? Or as event planners. And all of that is true. And that's all there. And we're also educators, all of us have gotten into this as educators. And so we did have this conversation about what is the change that we see in students as a result of the work that we and our colleagues are doing with them day in, day out. And then it wasn't that difficult actually to get to the seven. I mean, everything grouped together pretty well.

Dr. Michele Murray [00:21:24]: And then I think it took probably more time to make sure that we were using the accurate language to describe each of the categories than it did to actually create the categories themselves. So we wanted to be really careful about it. One of the things that I'll say that real affirmation point. Ana and our staff actually at WashU decided just kind of out of the blue, maybe in support of this project to gather a bunch of students and ask them on video, what does it mean to you that you're in college? Describe your experience, why is college worth it? And just those very open ended questions and the things that students said to describe their own learning and how they experienced the worth of their college attendance matched right along the seven dimensions that we had identified. And it was almost uncanny. You know, they weren't told what to say, they weren't prompted in any sort of way except for an open ended question. And what was really nice was to hear that the students, at least on Ana's campus, and then several of us went and did the same thing on our own to hear from our own students that how they experience their own growth and development and what's worthwhile to them about being in college and why this may be makes a difference to them are the things that are happening for them outside of the classroom and how they experience their own growth and development. So that I think more than anything said, we are definitely on the right track here.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:56]: I think that's a great lead into my curiosity around how were the examples investigated, what were the methodology of the task force to decide that these are going to be what's represented to showcase these examples of the dimensions, because the dimensions could have gone so many different ways in terms of what data sets were being represented or what messaging would have been important. And the examples are amazing. So, yeah, can you talk about how those ended up being the ones that are shining?

Dr. Lori Reesor [00:23:26]: NASPA was a great partner, of course, and supporter in this work. And again, a shout out to Stephanie Gordon, who was on the team and helped lead a lot of the internal operational aspects of it. So I would say that these sentiven impact areas were sort of this broader philosophical skills, attributions, outcomes that we were looking for. And then again, we wanted the programs that exemplified that. So NASPA used some of the programs that won some of their excellence awards, which was a national transition. Right, to lift those up. They've already been acknowledged and rewarded and recognized in that way. But what I love about this project is that NASPA has created a toolkit that all of us can then plug in our own programs to meet each of those seven things and really encouraged to do so because it's one thing to have this kind of national thing and it doesn't speak maybe to your local community, your local politicians, your local boards.

Dr. Lori Reesor [00:24:22]: And we really wanted this to be, again, very, very practical and useful because this is such an important topic to talk to folks about and to educate them. And so I absolutely am so proud that we that NASPA created this toolkit. I can and I plan to will take this document and make it UW Madison focused. And I think Michelle's gonna do the same thing for the College of the Holy Cross and so in Wash U. Right. So, so then everything becomes more localized as well as nationalized. And I think it's just really a beautiful things. 100% want to encourage our colleagues to go online.

Dr. Lori Reesor [00:24:55]: There's a website, there's all the stuff that's there. I think it's very practical, very, very useful. So the goal would be that there'd be hundreds or thousands of these documents that would be out there swirling amongst all of our states and local communities to do this education and make it very real and very, very practical for all of our colleagues across the country.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:16]: For our NASPA members to find the toolkit that Lori is referencing, just go onto the NASPA website and find the report that is labeled the Human Dimension of College Worth. And on that landing page, you can not only view the report, you can also click down to view the toolkit, which is right at the bottom of the page. There are some template links where you can add your own information. And it will pop and look as polished as the report that is currently published. And I really appreciate this activation because a lot of times we see things come out where we're going great, I've read this. Now what do I do with it or why does it matter to my campus or my local community? Or how do I tell the story to the president of my university or the other cabinet members at the university? And this gives a real tangible way to activate this work, which I think is just a great addition.

Dr. Michele Murray [00:26:01]: And Jill, I want to pop in on that point and also give Lori a lot of credit because Lori first of all asked us over and over as a task force, how do we assess our work and where do we need to be better? And so the toolkit also includes here are the kinds of metrics that you might need to collect, here are the kinds of things that you might want to talk about. Some of us are better at assessment more systematically than others, but I think Lori's questions helped fuel we need to provide examples for how this work is done well and then how institutions might describe what's happening on the ground. And to your point, Jill, about explaining the work or the impact of the work to different audiences, we heard that loud and clear from our NASPA constituents. You know, our colleagues at naspa, we had a couple of sessions at annual conference in New Orleans and we heard any number of times that people would find this document the most useful if it didn't speak to us as student affairs people, but really opened up the world of what we're doing to educate students outside the classroom and helping them grow and develop and open that world to whether it's colleagues inside the campus, so members or people outside, whether that's parents or lawmakers, or if we need tools to talk to our trustees to help people really understand what's happening for students when they are on our campuses. So I really thank Lori for focusing us on the need to tell the assessment story, recognizing too that a lot of times we don't see what happens in the two years or the four years that a student is with us. The outcome is really five or 10 years later. And so going back to talk to our alums about the impact of their college going experience is an important part of that storytelling as well.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:03]: I'm going to give a shout out and reach back to Dr. Mike Sagawa who initiated this conversation on the NASPA podcast about telling our student affairs story better. And that episode is a couple seasons ago, so please feel free to go back and take a listen. Dr. Sagawa is a distinguished pillar of our profession and just an incredibly intelligent critical thinker voice in our field. I can't say enough positive things about Mike, so please go back and listen to that episode. Yes, but that theme of needing to tell our story better externally has been just absolutely prolific through this season of our show on the value of student affairs. Every time I ask one of our theme questions about what do we need to do to be better seen, the response is almost always we need to tell our story better.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:44]: And we have this ongoing joke internally in the profession that my parents don't even know what I do, which is kind of funny, but kind of not because it means that our profession isn't really understood by even many who have gone to college. So there's such a value in showing us how do we tell our story through this toolkit. It's just such an incredible tool to add. And so I want to make sure that our listeners, wherever you are in your professional journey, whether you be in your first year, whether you're a grad student or whether you're an ssao, have the opportunity to take this and to put it out to your communities in this way.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:29:21]: I love that. I think that when we think about telling our story and student affairs have used different ways to tell the story, but through another lens, right? Through academic competencies that we've taken on, through different things that stand up the role, which is great, our academic partners, but even they are like, okay, what do you all really do?

Dr. Lori Reesor [00:29:41]: Right?

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:29:41]: And we don't just serve. We work with our colleagues, we work with our students. We are co curricular. And what's exciting about this project, when my team read through it and we're working right now to insert it and for our chancellor to say the trustees need to read this and need to know what you. What student affairs does that the student experience is elevated as a holistic experience. And I think that's what one of the things that we do. We're not just the ambulances that take them when they're in crisis, right? That's the narrative that everyone knows. Earlier someone had said, you know, and then the activities port is it that our students are learning.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:30:21]: And so this is pushing it in a way that is our student affairs language. So I just really am excited about this project.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:27]: This project closes with a call to action. And normally when we see a call to action in a report, it's to us internally in student affairs. But this one is different in that it makes three external calls to action, which I think the Toolkit, again, embodies an opportunity on how to do that effectively. So the call is for leaders in public policy and private philanthropy, for other institutional leaders outside of student affairs and for the public. This is something that I again have deep appreciation for in terms of the way that this is framed, because it starts to help us get a framework on how to push the narrative outward as opposed to continue to kind of internally support ourselves through these narratives, which is often what has happened historically. Can you talk about how you decided to frame these and why they matter for the value and worth of our profession?

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:31:16]: I'll jump first to say that I think that the danger we've seen different student affairs divisions get divided it up and those are decisions made from very high up level, right in a way external to the inside the profession in many ways. And also that the questions about the value and worth of student affairs in particular comes a little bit from inside, but a lot from outside that we needed to get outside of our echo chamber to talk and tell the story and own that story and what we really do. And I think even the audience of this, well, of course, our entire student affairs professionals, all different levels, should read it and understand it. And my vision of this, and I think the group bought into it, was that our chancellor will have it at his desk and when he will talk with a state legislature like, this is what we do and this is these student affairs folks and this is the student experience and why this is worth it.

Dr. Lori Reesor [00:32:14]: I think two things I want to echo what Michelle said earlier about what we learned from our colleagues at the NASPA conference. They inspired us that again, they need this document for all these purposes. And so again, I think they pushed us appropriately. So again, it's not just something that goes on the shelf, but it needs to be an action oriented piece. And that everybody, really everybody is struggling in trying to manage this narrative and have these conversations. So to have that as a tool I think is super important. I think the other piece though also is, in addition to to the data and the assessment and the storytelling, a good colleague of ours, I think both Michelle and Anna and angel, you might know too, Eric Groepich, Dr. Grosspich from Washburn University just posted this article and it was referencing social work.

Dr. Lori Reesor [00:33:01]: But he pushed me to say that this also applies to student affairs. But the heading was success often looks like nothing happened because a crisis was prevented. And that's kind of the nature of our work too in that. And one of our colleagues said, yeah, you don't really know what we do, but trust me, if we didn't do it, you would know. And so it's an inverse now. I don't know that that's the narrative that, you know, I think it, it makes it challenging to present it that way. But we just had Halloween weekend, which is a huge, sometimes chaotic, high risk management weekend. It was crazy, but it was managed.

Dr. Lori Reesor [00:33:35]: That was because of all the, the intentional efforts and education and process and support and all the things that we did. But I was like, like, okay, another weekend, it's on Monday. And it's like, no, no, no, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. We did a lot of work to have that happen. And so that's really kind of forced me to really rethink some of this and how do I communicate that? To say, yes, you're welcome, that that protest went really calmly and didn't make the national news. You're welcome, because that was us. But this article also then talks about the individual and the impact. And I think this also goes back to what Ana was saying is the morale is that then you don't really get that recognition.

Dr. Lori Reesor [00:34:13]: You don't really get that apprecia. So that has to come really intrinsically from your own self to go, I made a difference with that student today, or I made a difference in this situation, or I made a difference. And especially whether small or big places, it doesn't matter. You have to continue to feed that to yourself and have that be your own value and worth for how you're contributing to our students and our universities as well. Again, I think there's lots of good action steps. Maybe I went a little different way, Jill, but I think that intentionality of these action steps are really, really important and y external. But I think there's opportunities for us to do more work internally as well and to tell that story, to support our staff, to help them feel valued and appreciated for all the important work that they do on a daily basis.

Dr. Michele Murray [00:34:58]: Yeah, I really appreciate that, Lori, and I think that that's important. Not that the document is a pat on the back, but it is a recognition of the multiple dimensions that we are at work in students lives. And I think that that needs to be recognized. I also actually really very much appreciate that the call to action is outside of the profession, really, because you know, as we started this session talking about the narrative around higher education nationally is not at the caliber or level that I think higher education actually deserves. And part of what is happening with this report and the calls to action being externally focused rather than calling to the people who are doing the hard work on the ground is that I think this is giving different language for all the folks who are talking about higher education and to have more complete language around what's happening rather than the very narrow band in which the conversation is existing. So I think that that call to action, being externally focused, is really brilliant because I don't know that. At least I've not heard any conversation about. About higher education.

Dr. Michele Murray [00:36:16]: And, you know, I hear a lot about how people think that everything is going wrong and xyz, but I don't hear people having the language about what's going right. And when we ask our alums, because I've just done this to talk about what was meaningful for them when they went to, you know, for their Holy Cross experience, they are brilliant and telling the story of their out of classroom. And I didn't ask them that question, but that is what they actually talk about. And so giving lots of other people the tools to talk about what is really worthwhile about college attendance is, I think, smart. It's just a smart move.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:55]: As we come to a close with our conversation on the report, is there anything else that you would like NASPA members to know about? How to read it, how to use it, how to activate it?

Dr. Lori Reesor [00:37:05]: There's so many ways. It's ANA and I think role model this really well. I mean, I think about using this for our student leaders. I think about using this for our staff. And a lot of times I think, honestly, I have struggled, especially because we're so diverse and some of our people come from a higher ed student affairs background. But many of my staff do not. And so. And they don't even, like, think that they work in student affairs.

Dr. Lori Reesor [00:37:25]: I'm like, no, you do. And this is what that means. And so to have that kind of educational tool of this is what I do or this is what we do holistically is just a fabulous thing. So again, internally, there's so many opportunities and uses, but then also, as we've indicated, that this is really our chance to shine and to tell this story. And I really implore that all of our colleagues across the country at all of your institutions use this to do that, because that will make us better, that will make us stronger, which then obviously impacts our students. And that's the bottom line is everything that we do impacts our students. So the more belief and support that there is for the work that we do, the better our students will be. And that's what it's all about.

Dr. Michele Murray [00:38:07]: Can't think of a better place to end than that. It's about our students.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:38:11]: Thanks, Laurie. That was great.

Dr. Lori Reesor [00:38:13]: Thank you. You're sweet.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:14]: For all of our other guests this season, we've been asking three questions on our theme of the value of student affairs. But because we've spent our entire dialogue today focused on this, I'm only going to ask you each one question, which is our normally second question, and that is, can you share a specific story or moment when you saw the value of student affairs come to life?

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:38:34]: It was actually during a contentious time in higher education. It was protest, and a student was really upset with another student. And I had brought them together at a meal at my house, and they came together as part of different groups, and I saw them, and I talked about the importance of dialogue and having a meal and engaging. And at that moment, the student who was so upset was so upset that the student was going to be in the same space as them, went up and said, I don't like what happened, but I would like to talk with you, and I want to just listen. And I'm going to ask that we listen to each other. And they didn't end up being best friends, but it was the first time they sat down and listened and engaged, and it didn't end up in the shouting match. And they continue to listen and engage over the years, and they keep in touch with me. And I thought that was just the beauty of our work.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:39:32]: There's no theory. There's no grades involved. It was just bringing them together and engaging and listening.

Dr. Lori Reesor [00:39:39]: I had a challenging conversation with some of our student leaders a couple weeks ago about a situation that happened and the lessons that could be learned from that. Multiple sides, of course, to every story. But the gist of it, from my perspective, was that we weren't all on the same page of how a situation was gonna be handled. And so there was a surprise element of it. And I just remember talking with these four student leaders of here's the life lesson. No surprises. People don't like surprises. Your bosses don't like surprises.

Dr. Lori Reesor [00:40:09]: Your partners don't like surprises. Communication is a tactic. But if you want to build trust and if you want to build community and if you want to build collaboration, surprises is not the way to do that. And so it was really one of those just really important lessons of what they were doing, but then how it translates to their broader perspective. There wasn't not a big, like, Ana. It wasn't like a big, you know, Kumbaya. And everybody's like, oh, there's, you know, but But I think there was learning, and I think that there was reflection. And so I think it's just taking those time, those moments, to really help people understand their behaviors and their both intentions and impact.

Dr. Lori Reesor [00:40:50]: And what are the life lessons, both professionally and personally, that you can take away from those situations? So those are that I love those kinds of situations, and we have them all, and our staff have them all the time. But that was probably a most. A more recent one that was significant for me.

Dr. Michele Murray [00:41:06]: Like my colleagues, I have lots of stories, especially whenever I have the privilege to speak to an alum who can reflect back and talk about how their experience at the institution really shaped the adult they became, or how they do their work or the work they do or what they do, whatever the family they raised, all of that is really important. But I think the piece that I want to call out, it's the work of some of my colleagues who do work on constructive dialogue here on this campus. And we just honored that at our football game over the weekend. And we have a group called the Speech Peer Educators, and they are specifically trained to help people dialogue across difference. But we also have a program with it called Dialogue Dinners, and this past month, we did two. One was focused on the history of slavery in this country and the intersection of slavery and the history of this institution. So that was the subject of a Dialogue Dinner. And the other one that we had that was also, I think, pretty hard hitting was AI and its impact on society and on individuals.

Dr. Michele Murray [00:42:15]: And what that means means, you know, for students who are in college and to see these student leaders facilitate and navigate dicey conversations and to have their peers stay in it and be in dialogue with one another, I thought, yep, this is what we do, and this is why we do it. And to have people walk away, I learned something here. My thoughts are more complicated than they were when I arrived. That was a win on both occasions. So to have both of those happen in the last month, I felt really proud of my staff and of the student leaders they work with.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:53]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world. It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:43:05]: Thanks, Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world. And there's a ton of things happening, happening in NASPA. Did you know that NASPA offers on demand recordings for all the webinars offered throughout the year? These recordings are available for purchase and can be viewed at your leisure. Topics for the webinar range across the NASPA competencies and provide professional development from student affairs professionals. On Demand recordings can be viewed by yourself or with a large group during a lunch and Learn or another professional development opportunity within your department or your division. The presentations are about 60 minutes long, including question and answer, closed caption and transcript viewing are available for all webinars. The cost of A webinar is $79 for members and 179 for non members, and institutions that want to register 25 individuals or more will also receive a 15% off coupon.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:43:57]: On Demand recordings are then available for 365 days after your program purchase. If you want to find out more, go to the NASPA website and on the NASPA website you can go under Events and Online Learning and click on the On Demand Catalog to see the whole list of On Demand webinars that are available and I think you'll be surprised at the breadth and depth of webinars that are available as a part of the NASPA Annual Conference that's coming up in March 2026 in Kansas City, Missouri. There's a number of other webinars, affiliated conferences or institutes that are going to be a part of that same conference. The Undergraduate Student Conference is happening on March 8, 2026 and currently you can still submit proposals that showcase diverse experiences in student affairs across different contexts and engage students through creative formats. The program proposals are due on January 5, 2026 and if you're planning to attend the NASPA Annual Conference, this might be a great opportunity opportunity for you to be able to speak to undergraduate students that are considering student affairs. Go to the NASPA Annual Conference website to be able to submit your program proposal today. Also on March 7th and 8th there will also be the Community College Institute, which is a great opportunity for individuals from community colleges to come together and explore innovative teaching technology and collaborate with colleagues to enhance the student experience and shape the future of our associations. On top of that, also on the same days March 7th and 8th will be the International Symposium where you can connect with global leaders and experts in student affairs.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:45:39]: This year's theme is Promising Practices Without Borders. The symposium will explore innovative partnerships and practices shaping the future of international student services. If you have an interest in adding on any of these affiliated conferences or institutes, as well as the wide array of pre conference programming that is happening on March 7th and 8th as well, go to the NASPA website, open up your conference registration information and you can add on an additional pre conference or affiliated conference right there if you missed it. There is a new Journal of College and Character that has recently been released that is accessible for you as a member of naspa. The Journal of College and Character is is a professional peer reviewed publication that focuses on character development in college and how colleges and universities influence, both intentionally and unintentionally, the moral and civic learning and behavior of their students. The journal includes resources and information designed to encourage discussion, research and innovative educational practices, publishing scholarly articles and applied research on issues related to academic ethics, values and character development in higher education. The new issue that is available is available on the NASPA website and you can access it by going onto the NASPA website and go under Research and Publications. Scroll down to Scholarly Journals and you can find that in the other scholarly journals there.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:47:08]: This recent journal has a number of different powerful articles that are both peer reviewed articles as well as invited articles Articles including one entitled Student Suicide and Spirituality by Serena Margaret Saliba and also another one called Greek Life, Character and Religiosity, A Study of Fraternity and Sorority Members at a Christian University by Aaron Ellis, Isaiah King, Will Baxter, Kevin Dougherty and Perry Glanzer. There's a number of other pieces that are in this journal that I would highly encourage you to review for yourself. And as mentioned before, this is only one of the journals that are a part of your membership in naspa, and I highly encourage you to check out all of the journals to extend your own learning and offer you opportunities to be able to bring some of that learning back to your own campus. Every week we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get get involved in different ways. Because the association is as strong as its members and for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the centers, or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself where do you fit, where do you want to give back each week. We're hoping that you that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community, I see myself doing something like that, or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:49:09]: Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in naspa.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:49:20]: Chris, thank you so much as always for keeping us informed on what's going on in and around naspa. And we have reached our lightning round, which means we're almost at the end of our show. Since you have been here before, we have a different lightning round set for you than we do for Lori and Michelle. So we're gonna go for Ana's lightning round first. Ana, are you ready?

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:49:38]: Ooh.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:49:38]: All right, question one. I'm gonna give you an opportunity to change your answer from the first go around. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:49:47]: It would be Apatapeta.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:49:50]: Number two, what was your undergraduate degree and do you use it now?

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:49:53]: Bachelor's in business. And yes, I do use it now.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:49:56]: Question three, your guilty pleasure TV show. Bing.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:50:00]: It's Black Doves. It's my new one.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:50:02]: Question number four, if someone ever visits your city, which is St. Louis, what's the one place they must eat?

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:50:08]: The one thing that they must eat is St. Louis barbecue.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:50:11]: Number five, what's your favorite work related podcast?

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:50:14]: NASPA. This one. It's the only one I do.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:50:17]: Number six, your favorite, not work related podcast.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:50:20]: I don't do other podcasts. I'm boring.

Dr. Lori Reesor [00:50:22]: Fair enough.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:50:23]: And number seven, any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional?

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:50:26]: Yeah, just. Hello, NASPA colleagues. Thank you so much, Jill, for doing this and interviewing. Interviewing us. And this is fantastic.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:50:33]: All right, Michelle and Laurie, we are on to you. We're gonna have Michelle going first, Laurie going second on all of our questions. Question number one, if you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

Dr. Michele Murray [00:50:44]: Earth, Wind and Fire, Shining Star.

Dr. Lori Reesor [00:50:46]: I would say ditto, but the other song I just heard is Thunder, but I don't know if that's the name of it, but that's kind of my, like, get Psych song. Yeah.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:50:53]: Number two, when you were five years old, what did you want to be when you grew up?

Dr. Michele Murray [00:50:57]: I'm so old that when I was five, the choices for girls were nurse and teacher. So one of those hairstylist.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:51:06]: Number three, who's your most influential professional mentor?

Dr. Michele Murray [00:51:09]: There's so many. I can't answer that because if I say one person, I'll feel bad about all the others that I didn't say, but I am really grateful to you know what I'm going to say. Susan Donovan I agree too.

Dr. Lori Reesor [00:51:21]: Many, many, many, many and so blessed for that. But David Ambler from the University of.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:51:25]: Kansas, Number four, your essential student affairs read.

Dr. Michele Murray [00:51:28]: Well, obviously the Chronicle Daily, but I think it's important to read other things and so the Atlantic is my favorite.

Dr. Lori Reesor [00:51:35]: Harvard Business Review would be my favorite.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:51:38]: Number five, the best TV show you've been binging lately.

Dr. Michele Murray [00:51:40]: The Gilded Age.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:51:41]: Love is Blind Denver season just finished. I watched that too. Number six, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

Dr. Michele Murray [00:51:48]: I don't listen to podcasts. So boring.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:51:50]: Mel Robbins and finally, number seven, any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional?

Dr. Michele Murray [00:51:54]: Yeah, I want to shout out Lori for co this thing with me and for what with our task force we produced. But also to Ana, who had the vision and brought us all together and shined. The guiding star.

Dr. Lori Reesor [00:52:09]: Well, of course, ditto. See, this is why I love Michelle. I'm just gonna say ditto to everything she says, but my shout out would always be to my daughter Sarah. So she gives me hope and purpose and love and humility and perspective. So love you, Sarah.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:52:23]: All right everyone, you've made it to the end of our lightning round. The very last thing I will ask you is how can anyone, anyone reach you? If they'd like to reach out, they.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:52:31]: Can email me at Ana A N N A dot Gonzalez with a Z at the end at uustl and folks.

Dr. Michele Murray [00:52:38]: Can reach me at Mmurray M M U R R a yolycross Edu and.

Dr. Lori Reesor [00:52:46]: Ulreser R E E S O R at wisc U I S C edu.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:52:52]: On behalf of the NASPA community, thank you so much for creating this document and this toolkit for us to use at our institutions. I know so many people being able to put forward our student affairs stories through this document. On behalf of everyone and of course myself as the host of the pod, thank you so much for sharing your voice with us today.

Dr. Lori Reesor [00:53:10]: Thank you.

Dr. Michele Murray [00:53:11]: Thank you Jill.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:53:13]: Thanks. This has been an episode of Essay Voices from the Field brought to you by naspa. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to be so great grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email us at [email protected] or find me on LinkedIn by searching for Dr. Jill L. Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions always.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:53:40]: We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a five star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you're listening now. It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps us us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton, that's me. Produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan, Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.