SA Voices From the Field

Season 13 of "Student Affairs Voices from the Field," hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton, shines a spotlight on the value of student affairs through engaging stories from both fresh perspectives and seasoned experts. In the recent Thanksgiving break episode, Dr. Jill Creighton and Dr. Christopher Lewis reflect on the whirlwind pace of the academic year and extend heartfelt wishes for rest and rejuvenation to their listeners. They express gratitude for the incredible guests featured so far and tease upcoming episodes with compelling new voices that will continue to explore the impact of student affairs work.

A main theme of this episode is the importance of reflection and self-care, especially as the term comes to a close and the holiday season approaches. Dr. Jill Creighton also highlights the complexity of Thanksgiving, encouraging listeners to learn more about indigenous communities through resources like Native-Land.ca. This thoughtful acknowledgment underscores the podcast's commitment to inclusivity and deeper understanding within student affairs.

Whether you're looking for inspiration or practical wisdom for your work in higher ed, this podcast delivers accessible, relevant professional development. Tune in to be part of a community that values learning, reflection, and authentic storytelling. Share "Student Affairs Voices from the Field" with colleagues and dive into the conversations shaping the future of our field!

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:02]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts brought to you by naspa. We curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you happen to be. This is season 13 on the value of student affairs. I'm Dr. Jill Creighton. She her hers your essay Voices from the Field host.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:27]: Happy Thanksgiving, Chris.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:28]: Happy Thanksgiving, Jill.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:29]: It's always catches up with me this time of year that we're already at this time of year.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:33]: I know it really, it sneaks up on you and I am never prepared for it. And then you realize right after this, there's only a few weeks left before the end of a term and only a month left until the end of the year. It's crazy.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:47]: Well, this year we've had such tremendous guests in the first three quarters of our season. When we come back from our break this week, we'll have a couple of episodes, including some folks that we're just really excited to bring you their stories. And then we'll be back in January. But traditionally we take this week off from releasing the podcast. We hope that all of you who are based in the US Are enjoying some rest this weekend and getting to spend some time with family. We also like to take a moment to acknowledge that Thanksgiving is a complicated holiday for a lot of people. And because of that complexity, we want to remind you that if you're interested in learning more about the indigenous communities that originally were caretakers of the land where you live and work, that there's a really great website resource for that, which is Native Dash land Ca and this is a website where you can input your address or your city where you work or live, and you can see what indigenous people used to have caretaking for the land that you're currently living on the map has expanded a lot over the years and it used to just look at the US And Canada. Now we're seeing that they've covered information for all of South America and Central America, Australia, New Zealand, parts of East Asia, parts of Russia, parts of Northern Europe.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:01]: So it's become a really great and robust resource and we encourage you to check that out. Chris, is there anything else that we want to add as we head into the break?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:09]: Just wishing everyone the best as we move into this holiday season. You know, take some time for yourself, rest, reflect and be able to prepare yourself for a brand new year because it's coming sooner than later.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:22]: Take good care everyone. Safe travels.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:29]: This has been an episode of Essay Voices from the Field brought to you by naspa. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to be so grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email us at [email protected] or find me on LinkedIn by searching for Dr. Jill L. Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions always. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a five star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:59]: It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcast casting community. This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton. That's me, produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan, Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

On the latest episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field, host Dr. Jill Creighton explores the intersection of enrollment management and student affairs with special guest Dr. Christopher Tremblay, Executive Director of Enrollment Management at the University of Michigan's Taubman College of Architecture and Urban Planning. If you're curious about the challenges and changes facing higher education, this episode offers a timely and thought-provoking conversation.

Facing the Enrollment Cliff

The "enrollment cliff"—a predicted decline of about 15% in college-bound students—is front and center in this discussion. Dr. Tremblay walks listeners through the domino effect: declining birth rates and economic factors have shrunk the pool of future college students, and institutions are strategizing how best to adapt. He points out that while enrollment management always relied on advance notice through birth rate data, today, the challenge is more acute. Colleges are shifting focus from just increasing headcount to more nuanced "revenue management." Not every student brings the same tuition dollars, so institutions must balance both enrollment and financial sustainability. The episode also acknowledges the hard truth—some colleges may face mergers or closures as the cliff approaches.

The Looming Impact of International Policies

The enrollment pressures are compounded by changes to visa policies and regulations, making it tougher for international students to study in the U.S. Dr. Tremblay warns of a "double whammy" for colleges: fewer domestic students and fewer international enrollees, as restrictions force many to defer or pursue education elsewhere. Other countries, like Canada and Germany, are stepping in to woo these students, signaling a shift in the global education market.

The Crucial Role of Retention & Student Support

But it's not all gloom—the episode celebrates advances in student success and retention. Investing in support systems, academic advising, and holistic onboarding not only helps students persist but is often more cost-effective for colleges. Dr. Tremblay describes the value of a "high tech, high touch" approach and advocates for ongoing, personalized support through a student's first year and beyond. He even dreams of a four-person support team for each student, recognizing the complexity of academic, financial, and career decisions.

Why Listen?

If you're a higher ed professional, parent, or student wondering what lies ahead, this episode delivers valuable perspectives. It underscores the essential partnership between enrollment management and student affairs, and calls for more collaboration in service of student success.

Tune in to hear how institutions are navigating uncertain times—and why student affairs remain critical to transforming lives.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:02]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts brought to you by naspa. We curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you happen to be. This is season 13 on the value of student affairs. I'm Dr. Jill Creighton. She her hers your Essay Voices from the Field host Today on Essay Voices from the Field, we're heading to the enrollment management side of The House with Dr. Christopher W. Tremblay.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:33]: He brings three decades of leadership in higher education enrollment management. Currently serving as Executive Director of Enrollment Management at the University of Michigan's Taubman College of Architecture and Urban Planning. He also serves as Director of ACRO Strategic Enrollment Management, or SEM Endorsement Program. Tremblay earned both his bachelor's and Master's degrees from Western Michigan University. He has a post Master's Certificate in Enrollment Management from Capella University and a Doctor of Education in Education from the University of Michigan, Dearborn. Tremblay is the co founder and co editor of the Journal of College Access and has served as Editor in Chief of College and University Journal since 2020. He's a scholar and researcher of Walt Disney, teaching the only college course on the life of Walt Disney called Walt's Pilgrimage. Christopher welcome to SA Voices and today we're going to be speaking to you.

Dr. Christopher Tremblay [00:01:19]: Thank you.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:19]: Great to be here about the enrollment management side of the house and all the things that are going on in acro. But before we go there, we always like to get to know our guests by asking you, how did you get your current seat?

Dr. Christopher Tremblay [00:01:31]: Wow, that's a long journey. But I will give you the abbreviated version. I actually am grateful that my career in higher education I'm now in my 32nd year and it started because I was an undergraduate orientation student leader. So I feel like it was the impact of student affairs that changed my life and brought me to this profession. So my first job in college was at Western Michigan University as an admissions counselor, actually before I even graduated from college, which was an incredible opportunity. And then I got hooked and I just loved admissions. I loved higher education. And then throughout my career I have done college admissions, I've done financial aid, I've done orientation, and have been doing enrollment management, gosh, for probably over a decade now.

Dr. Christopher Tremblay [00:02:16]: And I've been at the University of Michigan Talbon's College of Architecture and Urban Planning for five years now. But just prior to that I also worked in College Access within the State of Michigan at the Michigan College Access Network. And I have a huge passion for college access, especially as a first time.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:32]: Sitting at one of the university universities that's largest in the U.S. i think you'll be in a great position to be able to speak to what you're seeing in terms of changes. One of the things that we've been talking about in student affairs, and I'm sure more so in enrollment management for about the last 10 years, is this pending enrollment cliff that has been coming towards us. We knew that birth rates in the United States had declined in the Great Recession that happened in 2007. For those of you who were in the profession at that time, it was a bit of a squeeze for everybody from a budgetary perspective. But we also saw massive impacts around housing crises in the country, food insecurity and some other things. And that greatly impacted people's family planning choices. And now we're in a position in higher education where there's, I believe it's a 15% drop off of potential enrollees in universities.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:20]: So I would love to start there. Christopher, if you can talk a little bit about how enrollment managers are planning for this, how colleges and universities should be bracing for this and, and what that means for our profession.

Dr. Christopher Tremblay [00:03:33]: I guess the blessing of our work is that we always have advance notice because of the birth rate of how many people we think will be ready and eligible to enter college. And so we do have that lead time, but it is definitely a challenging time. While we're still trying to increase the percentage of high school graduates going to college so that we can increase college attainment rates, we know that the starting pool is much smaller and will get smaller for the next. I mean, basically indefinitely from the data that we're seeing from Wiche in terms of high school projections. So it's definitely putting a lot of pressure on colleges and universities. And I would say really enrollment management is shifting to be more about revenue management. And this is where it gets very delicate because cost is one of the primary barriers for students and families as the cost of higher education has increased and there's been less investment at the federal and state level. And so therefore the cost burden is being passed on to the students.

Dr. Christopher Tremblay [00:04:29]: So really our job is to really articulate the value of higher education and showcase its benefits both financially as well as personally and professionally, and that the workforce needs higher skill levels for those who are graduating from high school. And certainly, I think all of us who are in higher education are proponents of. There are many pathways to post secondary education and some of that might include pursuit of what we would have deemed work in the trades. But like for example in Michigan, that training for the trades predominantly is offered at our community colleges and that is going to college. And so part of it's also shifting the mentality still that college is an option for everybody and that there are multiple pathways to pursuing.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:13]: I think that's an interesting credential framing that you've mentioned that enrollment management is shifting to more revenue management. Can you talk more about what that means to the profession?

Dr. Christopher Tremblay [00:05:23]: Historically, as I always experienced the work in enrollment management, it was always about headcount and the number of bodies that you enrolled and the number of students. And I think there's more of a movement and has been for a number of years of counting, you know, headcount equivalent. So in other words, not every student is enrolled full time. Some students might be dual degree and so their revenue may be split. And so really using projections that showcase both enrollment but also tuition revenue. Because at the end of the day also not every student brings in the same amount of revenue because you have different tuition rates, you have different lengths of degrees. For example, in my particular college, we have degrees that are four year undergraduate degrees, we have two year master's degree, we have three semester post master certificates. And so really looking at as we set our enrollment targets, how does that translate into the revenue that's being generated? I also feel like colleges related to enrollment management and this enrollment cliff is that I think we are working very hard to protect our existing infrastructure and the educational experience, to protect the quality of the experience.

Dr. Christopher Tremblay [00:06:34]: And it's like, well, how do you do that when you have less expected revenue? And so I, I think a part of enrollment management is also helping institutions find alternate sources of revenue to alleviate some of that pressure. So whether that be offering some pre college programs or some non credit bearing options that allow you to still offer all of your academic offerings at the highest level in terms of the experiences you want to offer students. Because we don't want to sacrifice that, even though we might have a shrinking size of class. I think that many colleges in the country are going to be faced with some very tough decisions because we all can't win in this race, if you will. So I think that we're going to see many more mergers and or closures unfortunately just because there won't be enough students to fill every degree, every class in the country. So I think we are already starting to see that. I think many of us don't want to see that. But the reality is if there's not students because of the declining birth rate.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:34]: And this is expected to last 15 to 16 years, I believe is the current data set. So it's going to be a change in the way that we have to function, especially in student affairs. I've worked at several institutions where the student affairs model was largely based on student fees for certain parts of organizational structure. And with less students, there are simply less student fees, which means that there are less opportunities to potentially use that resource in a way that benefits students. So it's an interesting thing to think about. Right now. It seems to be more of an intellectual exercise, but I think very soon it will be a reality in our budget lines.

Dr. Christopher Tremblay [00:08:15]: Absolutely. I think we've already seen, unfortunately, with layoffs by some of the largest and most prestigious universities in the country because they're recognizing that the dollars just aren't there to be able to do that. And so there is going to be, I think, a shift in the types of services and resources that are provided. I think everybody wants to be very conscientious and careful about that because we still have a lot of support that we need to provide to students. They just don't show up and are perfectly experienced. Our system. Right. There's stumbles along the way, there's support that's needed.

Dr. Christopher Tremblay [00:08:47]: And so I think my hope in this as we talk about the work of student affairs is that that is not sacrificed or doesn't get to be so slim that, you know, it becomes non existent. Because I think it's still going to be just as important tomorrow as it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:01]: Is today as it was yesterday with the uncertainty of the future of international students in the US and we've got an interesting time ahead of us in higher education from an admissions perspective. Christopher, can, can you talk to us about what those changes are and how you're seeing some of these things that are proposed by the current administration impacting your ability to recruit international students?

Dr. Christopher Tremblay [00:09:23]: I think what we're seeing happening in D.C. is devastating to higher education and it's basically eliminating opportunities for international students to study in the United States. And I think it's a huge brain drain for us because we're going to see the impact of this for decades because if we're not enrolling these students, we're certainly not going to be graduating them and adding them to the workforce, whether it be in the US or if they go back to their own country or go elsewhere. So those changes obviously have been restrictions on visas. The pause on visas this past summer definitely hurt us because it caused delays. We ended up deferring many students to next year in hopes that they can still get a visa, but there's no guarantee. The new social media screening has added complexity to that and has changed students behaviors and made them much more conscientious about what they can and should be posting on social media and in what channels. So I think all of that is affecting it.

Dr. Christopher Tremblay [00:10:21]: I think the other regulations regarding you have to get your visa in your home country so you can no longer travel to another country to get that. It is devastating for some students because our international students have been very entrepreneurial and resourceful and determined to get a visa. And so they have flown to other countries and other embassies to try to get that work done and now that option won't be there. And so I think it's unfortunate because it's just barrier after barrier being put in front and we are just going to continue to see a decline in international students. And unfortunately there's not the domestic population that can immediately or fully replace their seats and their enrollments. And so I think it's definitely caused strain and commotion in higher education that we didn't, I think, fully expect to see coming. And so I think that in addition to the enrollment cliff, this is now a double whammy for higher education and has put so much pressure that we have not seen in at least in the time that I've been in higher education, other than again, challenges with COVID Somewhat joked with colleagues that I was like, gosh, it's like I almost want to go back to the COVID years because now they seem not so hard as it does now. We didn't know that then, right.

Dr. Christopher Tremblay [00:11:36]: What was coming. So I think, you know, the institutions that are going to be successful are going to be the ones that can be nimble and extremely responsive and act diligently regarding either the finance or the finances, either reducing expenses or generating new sources of revenue. I mean, those are really your only two options when you look at the, the financial impact of the international student enrollment crisis.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:12:04]: And for many schools that are funded by their state governments, we've seen that decline over the years and taxpayer dollars being diverted to other important public services and projects. So it's really a squeeze point for higher education at the moment with the international student enrollment component and with those visa barriers that have been broug on in the last year or so. I've also seen other countries kind of pick up on that and perk up on that. The UK has also done some similar things with putting more visa restrictions on students. So with the UK and the US in combination going, we're going to be admitting less international students like Germany have really picked up the mantle. And I've seen some advertisements where German universities are saying, we know you probably don't speak German, and getting an education in German is going to be very hard, but we're going to help you with that. So come here. We'll teach the language and you can get your degree.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:12:55]: So. So I wonder how that's going to shift the market.

Dr. Christopher Tremblay [00:12:57]: I think we saw that with our neighbors in Canada. I know that there was some schools that immediately were trying to capture some of the enrollment that would be coming to the US and it's like, still come to North America, but just come to Canada. So, I mean, they were smart in doing it. I don't know how many students actually followed through on doing that, because if you have your heart set on coming to the United States, there's certain places that I think attract our students in our country. The large coastal cities, the midsize college towns, wherever students feel like there's a fit and opportunity for them. But, yeah, I think we're going to see other countries definitely capitalizing and providing some additional incentives to woo those students. So we. We definitely have to keep an eye on that.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:40]: So the picture we've painted so far in our conversation is a lot of challenges ahead. But what's going well in enrollment management right now? What are universities that are attracting students still doing that, that is working in the environment we have today?

Dr. Christopher Tremblay [00:13:54]: I would say probably the biggest sense of, I think accomplishment is related to success and a commitment to retention and helping the student in the most holistic way. So I think since I've been in the field, I would say this has been the biggest improvement and kind of mindset the concept that it's cheaper to retain a student than it is to recruit a student. How can we make sure that our graduation outcomes continue to increase? Because there is much scrutiny by the government and other organizations on the outcomes of higher education, and we still have a long way to go to demonstrate that. But I think a lot of it is our students need a lot of academic and social support. We know that there's a lot of students that experience anxiety and the stress levels of just everything going on in the world. I think we all need to be reminded that that just like it affects us, it affects our students. And if their primary focus is academics and then all of their extracurricular activities, but then they're worried about cost or they're worrying about the political environment or they're worried about things going on in the world. Those are detractors can set students up to not be successful, you know, academically.

Dr. Christopher Tremblay [00:15:04]: So I would say that all of the student success measures from early alerts and follow up and all of the technology that allows both students and universities to track student progression I think is helpful because I think if we can teach students also how to self manage their progress, it's also teaching them a skill, a lifelong skill that should help them in their career because this isn't going to be the first and last time they have to manage life and all the curveballs at throws. And how do you learn from that? Because that's. I think one of the things that I love about higher education is just how much of a learning laboratory it is and how it transforms the lives of our students. I mean, I even think about myself as I entered college as a naive only child. So I didn't have any siblings ahead of me to learn the ropes. But I was grateful that there were people who took me under their wing and I didn't realize the value and role of student affairs until I became an admissions and enrollment management professional. And really it was working as the coordinator of orientation that I even first learned about student development theory and that all of these things that we were doing had data and research behind it as impactful practices to make a student feel like they belong at an institution and that they can be successful.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:16:22]: I think this is a nice tie in to the partnership that's very natural between student affairs and enrollment management. A lot of people see that nexus happening at the orientation process. Sometimes orientation lives in enrollment management, sometimes it lives in student affairs because we're really kind of establishing now you're a matriculated student and that student affairs engagement kind of begins. Can you talk to us, as a former orientation professional, now enrollment professional about what you see as the most successful ways to onboard students in 2025?

Dr. Christopher Tremblay [00:16:53]: A great question. I would say that my mantra on this is high tech, high touch. I know that's kind of an old school term, but I think we have to remember that when while digital technology offers some great efficiencies and offers greater access, you know, to onboarding and orientating a student to higher education, I still believe that the personal connection, the personal contact is equally critical and I would actually say even more important because our students, while they are such digital natives, we need to remind them that we still live with and work and engage with other people in person. And that sense of belonging and what I call that Human presence factor I think is important. So I think orientation programs that do both very well. I think there also is what I think over the years I learned is what I would call a time release formula or time release model. I think we have a tendency in higher education to just put everything out there all at once and like kind of as a menu. But I think there's a value in releasing content and information and knowledge sharing in stages as we believe the student needs it and when they engage in, engage in it.

Dr. Christopher Tremblay [00:18:08]: And so I really think that orientation starts at the time that a student pays their deposit and really needs to go through the end of their very first semester, if not their first year. Because that first year is still a time of adjustment and for some students it's a more challenging adjustment. And so I think thinking about that really almost as an entire year experience is, is critical to make sure that we're there to support students, students when they need us at the time they need us because they might know about the counseling services in over the summer, but until the rubber hits the road in November and they hit that moment where they are needing those counseling services, how do we get them that information at that time? Because we introduced it months ago. And for them think about how much information has come their way since then.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:57]: It'll be an interesting shift in our onboarding models to have kind of maybe weekly touch points or monthly touchpoints with students in their first year rather than bam, here we go over a full two day thing or a week thing or whatever our models might look like. I think it'd be a fascinating exercise in how to capture the attention of students in an ongoing way. But that time release formula might be a better way to engage our services and help students find their place. Because we also know that six week mark is an important inflection point for students who are going to persist to the end of their first term and then ultimately into their second term and hopefully to their second year.

Dr. Christopher Tremblay [00:19:34]: Yeah, for sure. I have always had a dream and this is a dream that would require just tons of money. But going back to that human presence factor, I actually feel like every student who's enrolled in college needs a four person team that gets assigned to them upon matriculation at the start of the semester. Even before that four person team would include their academic advisor, a financial aid specialist, a career advisor, what I would call a student affairs or student life or engagement professional. Could you imagine having a joint conversation with that four person team and the student student? Because what we do right now, which Just blows my mind is that I'll just give an example when a student might be struggling in a class and they have to decide, do I stay in that class and get a poor grade or withdraw or do I stay in the class because it could negatively impact my financial aid. So what does the student do? The student goes to their academic advisor. They talk about the pros and cons of dropping the class from an academic perspective. Then the student goes over to the financial aid person, person and has to discuss what are the pros and cons of dropping or not dropping the class.

Dr. Christopher Tremblay [00:20:40]: And then we expect the student to connect the dots between the two of them. Many students can do that, but some students don't do it well or can't do it at all. And so imagine the complementariness of all of those voices being in the same conversation for the efficiency and the effectiveness of the student to make the best informed decision at the end of the day. And then again, everybody kind of knows kind of what's happening. And I just think it's a more holistic approach. Again, if money was no object, I would implement it immediately because I just think that students would benefit from a team of support and the same team that could stay with them through their entire undergraduate experience.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:20]: That or a cross training model that allows everyone to dabble in each other's areas a little bit. I've always a big fan of that type of exercise as well. Which I think leads us to a natural question, question of what do you, as a primarily professional, wish that student affairs professionals knew about the world?

Dr. Christopher Tremblay [00:21:36]: Wow. Well, probably the first thing that comes to mind is, and I would expect this both ways, I think student affairs would benefit from knowing and understanding how a student got to that seat in that class. Like what did it take in terms of effort in order to attract that student's attention, recruit them to apply, admit them, and then matriculate them and then vice versa. I would actually love for a student affairs professional to remind me and refresh my memory and bring me up to speed on what does it take to support a student from the day they arrive to the day they graduate. Right. Because I think sometimes there's so much going on in our separate worlds and we have to be focused and concentrate on that, that unfortunately we just don't have the luxury of time anymore to go shadow or spend time in student affairs. So I also would love that opportunity to be able to just reminded of what are the current challenges that our students are facing that are real. Now I get nuggets of it.

Dr. Christopher Tremblay [00:22:39]: Because fortunately I have. We have a great student affairs operation within our academic, school and college. And so I actually get intel on some of the reasons our students are visiting, counseling, for example. So it gives me some insights on what our students, what they're entering with in terms of life challenges and then challenges that experience them. But I think we can always do better, understanding each other's worlds that we live in and then trying to find opportunities to further collaborate for the benefit of the student. At the end of the day, it's all about student success. And that can be defined in lots of different ways at different institutions and for different students.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:17]: Going to go ahead and lean into our theme questions for the season and we're talking about the value of student affairs. And from an enrollment management perspective, it might look a little different. But I think this perspective is a great value add for our season because you see us as kind of an internal external party where you're part of the team, but we're not in each other's day to day universes. So our first question is, when you think about the value of student affairs, what comes to mind first and why?

Dr. Christopher Tremblay [00:23:44]: The first thing that comes to mind is transformation. Really think that student affairs is about developing each student's potential and meeting students where they are and taking them to the next level. So in terms of, and I think especially developing all of those soft skills that complement the skills that are being learned in the classroom and in any academic experience, because I think that's where the value of higher education is, right? It is about the degree and it is about the credential and it is about the academic training. But when I think about the skill set that I gained as a student through my leadership positions as a student, and I think those are the things that I use almost every day in my job and were most transformative for my life. And I see it time and time again for our students because that's where they feel the sense of belonging to belonging and contribution.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:24:37]: Can you share a specific story or moment when you saw the value of student affairs come to life?

Dr. Christopher Tremblay [00:24:42]: I would say this still it was because I experienced it, but then I got to facilitate it for 300 other students who served as orientation student leaders. But I do think the summer that I was an orientation student leader, it definitely transformed my life because it put me in a position to have that peer to peer connection with incoming students. But really the major value was the four weeks of training that I received to prepare to be an orientation student leader. And I got one College credit for it, which I was grateful that there was the academic recognition. But that's where I learned about facilitation and conflict resolution and leadership skills and communication skills, all of that which has just benefited me so much in my career. And still to this day, I get many of our former students who are orientation leaders describe that experience as very powerful and impactful. And for many of them, it planted the seed for a career in higher education. And so I just really feel like those kinds of leadership development programs that are intense and short term can be just an incredible gift to our students.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:54]: And to our third question, what do you think student affairs needs to do to be better understood and better seen in today's educational environment?

Dr. Christopher Tremblay [00:26:02]: The first thing that comes to mind is that student affairs is essential. I don't think we can operate a modern day college or university without student affairs professionals, without student development theory grounding our work. And again, this is where we create that sense of belonging and support that I think also student affairs are such role models for how to approach this work in a very personal and with humanity in mind. And I think in the world that we're living in today, where I feel like humanity is not number one priority outside of higher education, we have a responsibility, I think, to role model how we take care of each other and how we, we care for each other. Right? Because at the end of the day, to transform those student lives, to make those students feel like they are better than they realize and that we have gifted them and taught them so many things where they can impact the rest of the world because we're counting on them. They are our future leaders. And so I really, you know, always am grateful for the work that our student affairs professionals do. And I always consider myself to be a quasi student affairs professional.

Dr. Christopher Tremblay [00:27:11]: I always joke with people that I worked in higher education for 20 years before I got my doctorate in education because my undergraduate and master's degrees are in communication, which again, I absolutely loved. But I had so many aha moments when I was sitting through my doctoral classes and I was like, oh my gosh, that's what I've been doing for 20 years. Right? So for me, it was an affirmation that the people who trained me in my work and mentored me, folks like Stanley henderson and Donna St. John, really like, took me under their wing and really taught me what I needed to know and reminded me that I was actually taught by the best in the field.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:48]: Christopher, is there anything else you'd like our NASPA listeners to know about the world of enrollment management and how it impacts the value of student affairs today.

Dr. Christopher Tremblay [00:27:56]: Absolutely. Please collaborate with your enrollment management colleagues. Learn about both the strengths and challenges of their work and also, I think, be reminded of just the incredible amount of stress that enrollment management professionals are under these days and that that stress shows no sign of alleviating. And so anytime that we can do checks with each other and be there for each other again, I think we are all reminded every day that we are here because of the students.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:26]: Christopher, thank you for all of those thoughts, and I'm going to toss it over to Producer Chris to tell us all about what's going on in NASA. It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASA NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:39]: Hey Jill, great to be back in the NASPA world and there's a ton of things happening in naspa. Did you know that the knowledge communities in NASPA are celebrating 25 years of knowledge creation this year? And this historic milestone is going to be celebrated at the NASPA annual conference from March 7th through the 11th in Kansas City, Missouri. For some of you, you may have always known that knowledge communities have always been a part of NASPA. But prior to 2001, knowledge communities were considered what were called networks. In 1989, through a restructure of task forces, networks, and advisory groups, NASPA approved its first networks New professionals Small colleges, fraternities and sororities Ethnic minorities, gay, lesbian, bisexual urban urban gay, lesbian and bisexual urban institutions Women in student affairs, adult learners and community colleges. Through the years, these networks continued to grow organically as members identified and responded to specific issues of concern in the field. By 2001, the NASPA board of Directors recognized an opportunity to reshape how these communities connected and shared expertise. One of our past guests on our podcast, Betty Simmons, ended up being asked, at the request of the then NASPA President, Gwen Dungey, to lead a transformation that would define how NASPA members would engage for the next quarter century.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:14]: Often affectionately called the grandmother of knowledge communities, Betty championed a new format that would leverage emerging technology to communicate communication to facilitate communication and information sharing among members regardless of geographic location. So what began as nine networks has evolved into a dynamic ecosystem of knowledge communities that serve as portals to naspa. Today's knowledge communities encompass a diverse range of topics and serve as a hub for developing and connecting experts across functional areas. Across functional areas, emerging issues, and member identity identities Knowledge communities have become the beating heart of how NASA members find their people share innovation and advance the field. I'm really excited to be celebrating this at the 2026 Annual Convention at the 2026 Annual Conference. As someone that started Knowledge community back in 2001, I am so proud of the work that the SAPA Knowledge Community has done over the years, but really the work of all the Knowledge Community communities because it truly has become the heart of the association and a way for all NASPA members to be able to get engaged in a way that they want to be engaged. So at the NASPA Annual Conference, the plan this year is to honor this legacy while looking toward the future of how we connect, learn and lead together. From Casey specific programming to opportunities to engage with communities old, old and new, this conference is going to be designed to help you find your people and deepen your NASPA experience so you have a great opportunity to be able to identify with the knowledge communities that you particularly connect with.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:04]: But also you have an opportunity to be able to test the water. As you go to the NASPA conference, check out some of the different knowledge communities, see what's on going they're all about or start today. Go to the NASPA website and on the NASPA website you can easily be able to identify and check out all of the knowledge communities. All you have to do is go on the NASPA website and in the top bar there is a tab that is called Membership plus Communities. If you go and hover over that button you can go down to the Knowledge communities and see all 30 plus knowledge communities that are out there and see what ones make sense. I highly encourage you to check them out today and celebrate the amazing work that the knowledge communities have done, but also the amazing communities that they have become to allow for you to connect with and find more of your own people that are passionate about similar things that you're passionate about. A quick public policy update for this month over the past month, the federal government entered the longest shutdown in history, with potential disruptions to institutions of higher education. However, as many of you know, a bipartisan funding deal through a continuing resolution has been voted on, and this continuing resolution would restore government operations at current levels through January 30, 2026 and provide full funding for select agencies, marking a meaningful step toward ending the stalemate.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:33:34]: The Trump administration's Compact for Academic Excellence in Higher Education continues to to draw widespread opposition, with most of the nine invited universities, among them mit, Brown, Penn and the University of Virginia, formally rejecting the proposal linking federal funding preferences to tuition freezes, enrollment caps and restrictions on gender and diversity policies. Meanwhile, the administration's $100,000 fee on new H1B visa petitions has sparked backlash from higher education, healthcare and business groups who warn that it will damage research and international hiring. A coalition of unions, colleges and associations has filed suit challenging the legality of the fee, arguing it exceeds presidential authority and was issued without proper rulemaking in the courts. A major settlement between the Department of Education and the American Federation of Teachers has restored student loan forgiveness processing for millions of borrowers under income, drip driven repayment and public service loan forgiveness programs, with protections against potential tax liability. Federal judges have also stepped in to halt Education Department layoffs affecting civil rights enforcement and to block restrictive campus speech laws in Texas. As litigation unfolds, higher education institutions continue to face uncertainty around funding compliance and future regulatory direction. NASPA has remained active in advocacy efforts throughout this period, joining higher education coalitions to oppose the proposed H1B wage level lottery rule and the Department of Education's expansive Admissions and Consumer Transparency Supplement, warning of excessive reporting burdens and privacy risks. NASPA also continues to advocate for restoring funding for minority serving institutions, preserving support for research and student aid programs, and in ensuring stability and transparency amid the ongoing federal shutdown.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:31]: You can continue to monitor the 834 active bills across state legislatures and Congress on the NASPA Policy Hub, which is a unique benefit only for NASPA members. Every week we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members and for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with the knowledge community, giving back within one of the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself where do you fit? Where do you want to give back each week. We're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community, I see myself doing something like that, or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now to offer other things to the association, to bring you your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are Stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in naspa.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:07]: Chris, thank you so much for always sharing with us what's going on in and around NASPA and Christopher. We have now reached our lightning round. I've got seven questions for you in about nine 90 seconds. Are you feeling ready?

Dr. Christopher Tremblay [00:37:19]: Let's do it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:20]: All right, question number one, if you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

Dr. Christopher Tremblay [00:37:24]: Gosh, probably Pink Pony Club.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:26]: Number two, when you were five years old, what did you want to be when you grew up?

Dr. Christopher Tremblay [00:37:29]: Ooh, I actually, I never had anything in mind.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:33]: Number three, who's your most influential professional mentor?

Dr. Christopher Tremblay [00:37:36]: Stanley Henderson.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:37]: Number four, your essential student affairs or higher education read.

Dr. Christopher Tremblay [00:37:41]: Ooh. All right, that one's a tough one, I'm going to say. One of the first books that I read when I became director of admissions was called the Gatekeepers, and it was Inside the Life of an Admissions Operation. And it was a fascinating read.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:54]: Number five, the best TV show you've been binging lately.

Dr. Christopher Tremblay [00:37:57]: I never watch tv.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:58]: Number six, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

Dr. Christopher Tremblay [00:38:01]: My favorite podcast is actually the podcast version of CBS Sunday Morning because I just love their feel good stories.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:09]: And finally, number seven, any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional?

Dr. Christopher Tremblay [00:38:13]: Yes, absolutely. I've already mentioned several of them, but I also would love to give a shout out to my work wife, Kimberly Buster Williams, who I do a lot of work with, acro. She has been an amazing colleague and friend.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:26]: And for those who may not be familiar, ACRO is one of our sister associations. It stands for the American association of Collegiate Registrars and Admissions Officers. So they're basically the NASPA for the side of the house. So if you maybe spend time in both worlds, it'd be a good thing to check out. Or if you're thinking about shifting within Higher Education acronym is a great place to go. Christopher, it's been an incredible and rich dialogue today. If anyone would like to reach you to have conversations after the show, how can they find you?

Dr. Christopher Tremblay [00:38:53]: Yeah, the best way is through LinkedIn.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:55]: Christopher, thank you so much for sharing your voice with us today.

Dr. Christopher Tremblay [00:38:58]: Thank you.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:04]: This has been an episode of Essay Voices from the Field, brought to you by naspa. This show is made possible because of you, the listener listeners. We continue to be so grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email us at [email protected] or find me on LinkedIn by searching for Dr. Jill L. Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions always. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a five star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you're listening now.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:34]: It really does help other student affairs professional find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton. That's me. Produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan, Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

In the latest episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field, host Dr. Jill Creighton brings together members of the third cohort of the Global Master's Students Program, a unique partnership between NASPA, the European University College Association (EucA), and Lumsa University in Rome. This special episode showcases graduate students from around the world—including the Philippines, Belgium, Italy, Namibia, China, the Netherlands, Germany, Trinidad & Tobago, and South Africa—sharing their varied experiences, perspectives, and hopes for the student affairs profession.

Thank you to Lida Ricci, Julia Jaque, Joseph "Joel" Parcon, Luca Corona, Vency Mupupa, Raghavendra Reddy Manda and Leah Punch for sharing their voices today.

At its core, the conversation orbits around the powerful value student affairs brings to higher education globally. Joseph "Joel" Parcon emphasizes "values formation"—the role of student affairs in nurturing not just academic talent but shaping students as positive agents for societal change. Julia Jaque and Leah Punch echo this sentiment, describing student affairs as "the heart of the student experience," fostering belonging and personal growth beyond classroom walls.

The theme of transformation comes alive through Raghavendra Reddy Manda, who poignantly describes student affairs as "the soul of the higher education system"—a journey where students find purpose and learn to make an impact. Vency Mupupa adds that key values like diversity, respect, integrity, and care reflect a commitment to inclusive, supportive campus environments.

But visibility remains a challenge for the field. Many panelists note that student affairs is often misunderstood or underappreciated. Luca Corona and Leah Punch advocate for "joyful testimony" and storytelling, letting students themselves express how involvement in campus life, community, and extracurricular activities enriches their university journey. Collaboration—between student affairs, academic affairs, administration, and students themselves—is seen as crucial to raising awareness of the broad impact and importance of the profession.

Panelists also share their personal motivations for studying student affairs: from accidentally stumbling into the field to intentionally pursuing it as a vocation. Each story reveals a commitment to supporting students, fostering development, and elevating the human aspect of academia.

If you're curious about the future of student affairs—how the profession is viewed and evolving across continents—this episode will resonate. Hear firsthand how practitioners are meeting challenges and opportunities in vastly different cultural and educational contexts. The candid reflections and shared wisdom from emerging leaders across four continents are sure to inspire anyone invested in student success and campus well-being.

Tune in to this thought-provoking episode for a truly global perspective on why student affairs matters—and how its impact ripples far beyond campus boundaries.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:02]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts brought to you by naspa. We curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you happen to be. This is season 13 on the value of student affairs. I'm Dr. Jill Creighton. She her hers your essay Voices from the Field host. Welcome back to our next episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field. We have a very special episode today where we're going to be talking to our current Global Master's Students cohort.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:37]: This is our third cohort of global Master's students and this is a collaboration project. This course is in collaboration with NASPA and EucA, which is the EucA University College Association, and also Lumsa University, which is a university in Rome, Italy. We have students today spanning the entire globe, many, many different time zones, all earning their master's degrees in student affairs, and I'm thrilled to bring them to the podcast today. So our first student is Joel. Joel, please tell us where you're joining us from, what university you're at.

Joseph "Joel" Parcon [00:01:09]: So, I'm Joel. I'm from the Philippines. I am the Vice Chair for Student affairs in the University of Asia and the Pacific.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:16]: Welcome.

Joseph "Joel" Parcon [00:01:17]: Glad to be here.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:17]: Our next student is Julia.

Julia Jaque [00:01:19]: Hello, I'm Julia. I'm project Coordinator at European University College association in Belgium.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:26]: And welcome. Julia, glad to have you here. Luca, you're our next student.

Luca Corona [00:01:30]: Yeah. My name is Luca Coroa and I'm a Catholic priest from Rome and I worked for 15 years in institutional affairs as the director of the residence of Collegio Marzza. But now I am professor of Theology at the Catholic University in Rome and I continue to give my contribution to serious affairs.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:52]: Thank you for joining us, Luka. I'm glad to have such a diversity of perspectives amongst the three we've introduced so far. We've got four more to go. Our next student is Venzi.

Vency Mupupa [00:02:01]: Good afternoon. My name is Vensi Mpupa. I am originally from Namibia. I worked previously at the University of the Free State in student affairs for 10 years, and then I moved to the University of Diukunshan in China, where I was also working in the Residence Life office and I'm currently based in Namibia, working for Safland Property Services as an executive assistant.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:26]: Welcome. And next we have Raghavendra.

Raghavendra Reddy Manda [00:02:29]: Hello, My name is Raghavendra reddymanda. I'm a PhD candidate in entomology at Wageningen University and Research in the Netherlands, where my research focuses on sustainable pest management in greenhouse horticulture. I also serve as the communication Officer of Wageningen Doctoral Council and the chair of Career committee at a national graduate school working to enhance doctoral well being and career development. In future, I aspire to build a hybrid career which combines my passion for scientific research with leadership in student affairs and higher education administration.

Leah Punch [00:03:04]: Good day everyone. I'm Leah Punch. I'm from Trinidad and Tobago. Currently I work in Bremen, Germany at Constructor University. There I work as a residential life manager, mainly responsible for incidents and emergency response.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:20]: Next up, we have Lida.

Julia Jaque [00:03:22]: Hi, I'm Lida and I'm responsible for educational and cultural activities at the University College of Merit in Rome where I've been working for the past couple of years. I've always been passionate about the academic world, which led me to pursue a master's program focused on higher education and student affairs.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:45]: So because there are so many of us today, I'm going to be asking us just two questions focused on our theme on the value of student affairs. And I'd love to hear all of your perspectives, especially because we're so global. Our first question is when you think about the value of student affairs, what comes to mind first and why? And we'll have you go in the order you introduced yourselves.

Joseph "Joel" Parcon [00:04:05]: Okay. So when I think of the value of student affairs, particularly in the University of Asia in the Pacific, we're actually, we are given the. The hallmark of values formation. So it's important for us as the center for student affairs to be able to provide opportunities for students to be able to add value to their student life so that they don't just learn on the academic side, but they also learn outside of the classroom and they graduate to become positive agents of change in service to society.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:37]: Thank you, Joel. In the Philippines, it's interesting to hear that you've got set expectations in that way a little bit more national and standard than what we see in other parts of the world.

Joseph "Joel" Parcon [00:04:46]: Yeah. In particular with, especially in the uanp, there are three centers that are actually given all of these different things that they need to focus on. So we are the ones on values formation. There's another unit that's in charge of research and development and another for people development as well. So we are the ones who really are supposed to be the other side of the coin of the academic affairs.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:08]: Julia, go ahead and jump on in.

Julia Jaque [00:05:10]: I guess for me it's literally the.

Leah Punch [00:05:12]: Heart of the students experience. Right. Because the student affairs help students to.

Julia Jaque [00:05:17]: Understand who they are and who they.

Vency Mupupa [00:05:20]: Want to be and also to connect.

Julia Jaque [00:05:22]: With others and to have this feeling of belonging with the community.

Leah Punch [00:05:26]: So I guess is the center of the experience of being student.

Luca Corona [00:05:31]: For me, the value of student affairs is very important in helping students think about their lives in a broader sense, not just within the specifics of university. I think that the risk of young people is over. Specializing in university students first helps them think more comprehensively. Also for example, with community not alone, I think.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:58]: Fancy, you're next.

Vency Mupupa [00:05:59]: Good afternoon again. When I think of the values I spent almost 10 years at the University of the Free State, so I'm going to be referencing the University of the Free State a lot in this podcast of ours. So when I think of the values of student affairs at the University of the Free State, I think of diversity, I think of respect, I I think of integrity, I think of care, and I also think of learning. These values reflect UFS commitment to creating an environment where every student feels included and supported. Thank you.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:32]: And just for clarity, while Vency is currently in Namibia, the University of the Free State is in South Africa. So she has experience in multiple parts of the continent.

Raghavendra Reddy Manda [00:06:42]: Ready here. When I think about the value of student affairs, the first word that comes to my mind is transformation. Student affairs transformed the education from a system of courses and grades into the human journey of growth, belonging and also purpose. So it's where the students tend to discover who they are, what they care about and how they can make a difference in the world. So for me, student affairs is not just a department or a profession. It's the soul of higher education system, which often reminds us that education is not only about learning facts, but about becoming a wholesome person.

Leah Punch [00:07:18]: When I think about student affairs or the student affairs profession, what comes to mind is probably us as student affairs professionals helping or creating a space for students to have the ability to create and learn and grow beyond the classroom. I think part of my role is also helping students or equip students with building like soft skills, equipping them with things that they might need later on in life. So equipping them with like soft skills that would be able to help them in their next job or their next just as citizens or part of society.

Julia Jaque [00:07:53]: I'm lida and when I think of values in student affairs, few fundamental principles immediately come to mind. And at the core is deep commitment to placing students at the heart of all decisions, programs and services. So has active collaborators in shaping their educational journey. This means listening to their voice, honoring their lived experiences and co creating environments where they can thrive.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:08:27]: I really enjoy learning about all of our student affairs collective perspectives, because we're sitting on four separate continents today and really kind of honing in on what the value of the profession is. And we're all trying to work together to help students succeed, to help them thrive in the environment and ultimately change the way that our universities operate to make them the best possible for students. And it's great to hear that that alignment exists across the globe right now. Which leads me to my next question, which is, what do you think student affairs needs to do to be better understood and better seen in today's educational environment and particularly in the country that you live and work in?

Joseph "Joel" Parcon [00:09:07]: Joel, here, that's a tough question to answer. Student Affairs. I think that it's very important for student affairs professionals to, I guess, or at the very least, to take the initiative and extend the arm and try and collaborate more with the academic affairs units of the university. Well, with the entire university that we are working in, especially in the university I'm working for. Yes, they know about the center for Student affairs, but they don't quite know what it is, the breadth of what we do. A lot of people and even students think that student affairs is all about discipline. Not a lot of them think that cultural affairs is part of student Affairs. Before our sports development was also part of student Affairs.

Joseph "Joel" Parcon [00:09:49]: There isn't that much awareness about the breadth of what student affairs, the center for Student affairs, actually does in our university. And I've been talking with other student affairs practitioners from across the Philippines as well in some of the conferences that I've attended, and they have similar situations that, okay, it's something that the academic affairs unit can't do. Throw it to Student Affairs. They'll do it for you. Events management. Throw it to Student Affairs. And I think that it's just a more intentional way of making people aware of what we do in student affairs more than just them having that vague idea of what it is that we actually do.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:24]: And I think that's a valid response in itself. Right? Knowing that we need to be more visible in our higher education spaces, that we need to be more visible with our university partners, whether they be in other parts of the administration, with the students, or with our faculty colleagues, but not knowing what to do to activate. It's a very reasonable response because I think it's a question that we've been asking ourselves as a profession for a very long time.

Luca Corona [00:10:48]: This is Luca for me. Students affairs needs to be better understood through the valuable testimony of those who work here, work there in the student affairs, I think the testimony of students who have experienced that university is not just about classes, but also about community life, volunteering, music and other activities. I think we need the joyful testimony of students who have lived this holistic experience in university to share with the peers and also with the general public and the other stakeholders of the university.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:34]: I like that framing of joyful testimony. We can tell that you come from the spiritual side of the house for students, but you know, we talk about storytelling all the time in student affairs and that is just a really lovely way of putting it.

Vency Mupupa [00:11:46]: Vinci here. Again, thank you for that question. I am going to keep referring and making reference of the University of the Free State. So at the University of the Free State, student affairs needs to show its impact through evidence and collaboration. You know, by highlighting how it supports student success, well being and leadership, it can gain great visibility and recognition across the university, but also not just at the University of the Free State. I think all over the world, when people hear student affairs, I don't think they understand the role that student affairs practitioners play in student success. So if we are able to, through evidence and collaboration, show the impact that we have on this, then I think we have hit the ball right in the middle there. Thank you for that.

Raghavendra Reddy Manda [00:12:34]: Thanks for the nice addition. Vancy Reddy here. So, to be better seen and understood in the Netherlands, the country where I work, student affairs should focus on defining its unique identity while also celebrating its existing strengths. So unlike North America, where student affairs is a well established profession, in Netherlands it's more decentralized, so it's spread across study advisors, psychologists, graduate schools, study organizations, student associates. So this diversity is not a weakness. It's a reflection of Dutch culture of collaboration and also student independence. So by bringing these elements together under a shared vision of student success, well being and also community, we can show its collective impact more clearly. So it's about just connecting the dots, demonstrating how every conversation, mentorship and program contributes to student feeling supported, engaged and also empowered.

Raghavendra Reddy Manda [00:13:30]: So for me to be better understood in the Netherlands, we don't need to reinvent the student affairs itself, but we simply need to tell the story more visibly and also profoundly.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:41]: Can I also ask you to weigh in on what you've recently been listening to in terms of student affairs and its value? In India, you talked about recently listening to a podcast in Hindi language that was kind of having a similar debate. Any thoughts there?

Raghavendra Reddy Manda [00:13:57]: Yeah. Also in India, as I mentioned earlier, student affairs is not a profession and it's not so popular like North America, most of the student affairs professionals that are recruited doesn't have a specialized training or degree in student affairs. So that was also a sort of eye opener for me. And it's important to have the trained student affairs professional because as I mentioned, it's the heart of university education, not only in India, but everywhere in the world.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:25]: Thank you.

Leah Punch [00:14:26]: Yeah. So I think for me it's quite difficult to like answer the question immediately, but I think I agree with Luca, especially in the context of Germany, I think student affairs, it's like a fairly new concept. We don't have many residential campuses or residential life. We have offices where students could go for information and help. But student affairs isn't really a big thing in German culture. So I think I would agree with Luca, where I think the first step might be having students actually understand. So the students who come to construct a university, having them first understand and giving them, equipping them with the language of like, what we do. So starting from when they arrive at the university, kind of like introducing them into, yes, we help build a community, we help them learn, also helping them identify the things that we actually learn.

Leah Punch [00:15:17]: And I think first implanting this seed into the students and then having them be able to tell their stories to people who they meet, but also creating more like formalized spaces where maybe we could engage a bit more in the community or have events where people could like showcase these things, maybe partner with some, not only with like social media things, but maybe partner with like a local paper and just like showcasing some of the work that we do just to like have people get familiar with student affairs. So I think my thing would be like starting with the students, kind of like instill in them what we do, giving them the ideas of what we do, have them storytell, but also have us storytell together with them in like a broader sense of the German community.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:16:02]: I like the synergy of you being at Constructor University and really telling the story through a co constructivist lens. I think that matches really well with how student affairs stories can be kind of shared successfully, especially when the language is new to the environment that you're working in.

Julia Jaque [00:16:20]: And Lita, I also believe that a collaboration between all departments is necessary and that student affairs should have a voice and be well understood by others. Equally important is ensuring that students themselves understand the role of student affairs, not just as a support service, but as a vital resource for their personal, social and academic development.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:16:53]: What I'm hearing from across all of our conversation is that the themes are really the same in terms of the global student affairs identity. So I have a friend who likes to say, same, same, but different. So we're reaching the same goals, we have the same motivations, but the pathways that we reach those goals through are going to be different based on our different cultural contexts about what our communities need and what our students need. So it's lovely to hear from all of you in this regard. And we have a little bit of time left, so I'd love to know from each of you, can you just tell us you decided to study student affairs? Why it's important to you because you all are the future of the profession.

Joseph "Joel" Parcon [00:17:30]: Well, I actually stumbled onto student affairs. I was sort of an active student when I was studying, also from uanp. And then afterwards, one of my could call her my mentor, she recruited me to get into student affairs, and then I found a home in the profession. I've seen student affairs from both sides when I was a student, and then later on when I started working, I saw the value and how it became such a noble thing to do to see how these students develop. I've seen my fair share of students graduate and to get in touch with them after all of these years and to know how their experience with us in student affairs while they were active in the university and to see how that has enriched their lives afterwards, it keeps me going in the profession.

Luca Corona [00:18:18]: Yeah, this is LUCA for me. I can start thinking about that I was a student at the college and that I then I began directing ten years later, and I heard wonderful testimonials about this wonderful job. And so I thought that it was for me a calling, not just a job. And so in this time, it's very good for me, dedicating myself to students, to their human, academic, professional growth.

Vency Mupupa [00:18:55]: Vancy here again. Thank you for that question. I can actually write a paragraph or a book on this question, but I'm going to summarize it because we don't have enough time. I think having gone back to school, to the university when I was 31 gave me an opportunity to experience residence life because I had never stayed in a residence. I had never stayed in a shared space, except with my family members. And immediately when I walked into that residence hall, I felt that I could contribute to that space. And within three months, I was appointed as a residence assistant. And I think that's where the passion was born.

Vency Mupupa [00:19:33]: And as the years went by and I got involved in residence, I mean, student affairs, residence life as a student assistant, the passion just kept on being fueled. Although all of my qualifications are in law. The passion was just there. I left the university and I went to work for a law firm for a year. But I was still yearning to come back to the university to contribute and play a role in the lives of so many students. And I think when I heard about this degree, this Master's degree, it didn't take me a second to complete the forms because I really wanted to get an in depth understanding of what student affairs is, but also gain a lot of skills that I hope to impact wherever I go to in the world. So I'm literally excited about this Master's degree. So thank you for that.

Raghavendra Reddy Manda [00:20:25]: Ready? Again, I'd like to also provide a bit of context. It's important to explain it. As I mentioned, I do my PhD in Entomology and alongside this scientific work, I also serve as a Communications Officer at the Wageningen Doctoral Council where we work to enhance the quality of PhD trajectories and also promote the overall well being of the doctoral candidates at Wageningen University and research. So in this role I also get an opportunity to collaborate closely with the university leadership to improve the doctoral education communication and also the inclusivity. And I also chair the Career committee of the PhD Council at the National Graduate School in the Netherlands. And together with my colleagues we design and organize initiatives such as career talks, company visits and also alumni sessions at final year PhD retreats in close partnership with the PhD graduate schools. Experiences have allowed me to develop good leadership and organizational skills and more importantly, they have given me a deep appreciation for the human side of the academia, supporting students, fostering the professional growth and create an environment where everyone can thrive. So over the past three years my interest has steadily evolved towards the student affairs and also higher education administration.

Raghavendra Reddy Manda [00:21:44]: And as a researcher I realized that scientific progress is not only about experiments or publications, but also about the people, how they are supported, mentored and guided through the complex journey of higher education. My administrative involvement showed me how much impact does this thoughtful student policies and academic support systems can have on us. This realization really motivated me to take this Master's from Lumsa University because it combines the theory with also hands on experience, bridging both the European and global perspectives on student development, education, leadership and also the campus well being which is offered in close collaboration with UCA and naspa. And this is very much a unique opportunities to learn from international experts. And our cohort is really amazing. We have people from different countries covering four to five continents. So what I want is through this Master degree I really aim to gain Deeper understanding of student learning, advising and development, where I can apply this knowledge within the academy and beyond. So my long term goal is to build a hybrid career, one where I can continue my entomological research while dedicating part of my professional life to student affairs and higher education leadership.

Raghavendra Reddy Manda [00:23:00]: So I believe that by combining this scientific inquiry with a commitment to the student development creates more holistic, impactful academic career, one that not only advances science, but also strengthens the communities which sustain it.

Leah Punch [00:23:16]: So why did I choose to study student affairs? So my background is also not in student affairs. My background is in geography. But while studying geography, my interest was always in community building and development and how we could develop communities. Just like many others in student affairs. I kind of also like just landed in student affairs. Like the air blew me into student affairs. But once I started working at my current university, I realized, like, I really enjoyed working with students, supporting students, kind of like co learning with them and helping them. Like, it's kind of like molding them for their future.

Leah Punch [00:23:53]: I really enjoy that because I really enjoy that and I really enjoy supporting students. I was always like, interested in, okay, how could I support them better? How could I do this? And I think the natural next step was when I saw this master program was like, oh yeah, I could like formalize my learning a bit more. So not only what I learned from my job, I could also learn it like more in a more professional way. So yeah, I really enjoy what I do. So the natural next step for me was joining the master program to kind of like support my learning that I have in practice. Yeah, that's why I chose to like, further my study in this field.

Julia Jaque [00:24:32]: I truly understand how valuable it is to have someone from student affairs by your side. During my own university journey, there were moments both academically and personally, when I felt the absence of a guiding presence. And that experience has shaped my desire to become that support for others. I would like to be that guide for someone else and help students achieve their academic and personal success.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:02]: I want to thank you all for sharing your motivations for being here. I also want to let you know that our dear colleague Julia unfortunately ended up having a technical difficulty, so she's not able to join us for the rest of our session today. But it's such a joy to work with you all in the technology space for this master's program and for our listeners. Our class today was learning about podcasting as a technological medium for working with students and student affairs. So I want to thank you all for choosing to share your voice with the naspa, AUKA and LUMSA communities and I'm looking forward to continuing our learning journey together. Thank you all so much.

Julia Jaque [00:25:39]: Thank you very much.

Raghavendra Reddy Manda [00:25:41]: Thank you very much.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:42]: Thank you.

Joseph "Joel" Parcon [00:25:43]: Thank you for having us.

Luca Corona [00:25:44]: Thank you.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:45]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:51]: Thanks Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world and there's a ton of things happening in naspa. The Certified Student Affairs Educator is the core certification credential intended for mid level educators and above. NASPA offers both self guided and moderated opportunities to learn to help learners successfully prepare for the CSAED exam online. If you plan to apply to take the certification exam, you can utilize these resources to help you prepare to asap. There's a virtual info session on this application and preparation resources that are available. That will happen on November 18th and the application for this certification closes on December 15th. You can find out more at studentaffairscertification.org As a remember the NASPA Public Policy Hub consists of a compilation of policy research, coalition work and resources from naspa, other associations, nonprofit organizations and think tanks with expertise in various areas of higher education.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:53]: Based on input from staff, organizational partners and members, NASPA has curated this centralized resource to include policy trackers, articles, fact sheets, legislative summaries, and informational videos that outline state and in federal legislative and policy changes for student affairs professionals. The Policy Hub is a NASPA member only resource, so it is an amazing benefit to you as a NASPA member. If you've never logged in to check it out for yourself, I highly encourage you to log in to the Public Policy Hub for yourself on the NASPA website. You can get there by going to Learning finally, today, NASPA is proud to announce the release of its first ever Sexual Violence Respondent Services toolkit. Developing a framework Working with students accused of sexual violence, dating violence and or stalking in higher education as colleges and universities continue to strengthen their prevention and response systems, the need for thoughtful, equitable and trauma informed the respondent services has never been greater. This new publication provides practical guidance for higher education professionals supporting students accused of sexual or gender based harm, helping institutions balancing compassion, accountability and community well being. This publication explores what effective support services can look like beyond legal or clinical frameworks. Offering both theoretical foundations and actionable strategies to inform program design and institutional planning.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:31]: Campus practitioners will find in this book guiding frameworks for developing and evaluating respondent services Concrete strategies to define service scope and approach Adaptable tools and suggested language for direct practice reflection prompts to support professional development and staff training. Grounded in NASPA's commitment to holistic student well being, this resource is designed to help campuses create equity minded, community aligned approaches that meet the needs of both students and institutions. Whether you are building new support structures or refining existing processes, this framework offers a starting point for sustainable values driven practice. You can purchase Developing a Framework on the NASPA Learning site@learning naspa.org Every week we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the Association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways. Because the association is as strong as its members and for all of us, we have to find our place within the association. Whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the Association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself where do you fit? Where do you want to give back? Each week we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:15]: I see myself doing something like that, or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in naspa.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:45]: Chris, thank you so much again for another informative NASPA World segment and keeping us updated on what's going on in and around naspa. If you're a regular listener to student affairs voices from the field, you might know this is where our Lightning Round usually pops up in our episodes. Because of the size of our guest list today we weren't able to complete the Lightning Round as normal, so we'll be closing out our episode here. But I want to thank all of our master students for being brave and being willing to put their voices into the space today. And also to all of you who are out there listening if you want to add more ideas to our show or if you'd like to contribute as a voice yourself. Friendly reminder, we're always looking to cast new voices in student affairs. You can find us by emailing us@sa voicesaspa.org if you want to find any of the students that were featured today, please feel free to search for them on LinkedIn. This has been an episode of Essay Voices from the Field brought to you by naspa.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:43]: This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to be so grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to to reach the show, you can email us@sa voicesaspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for Dr. Jill L. Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions always. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a five star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you're listening now. It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:16]: This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton. That's me, produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan, Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

If you're looking for fresh perspectives on careers in student affairs—and a truly honest conversation about the journey ahead—don't miss the latest episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field. In this episode, host Dr. Jill Creighton sits down with Dr. Amy Hecht, Vice President for Student Affairs at Florida State University and co-editor of the new NASPA book, The Next Act: Realigning Your Mindset, Purpose, and Career.

The central theme of the conversation is the evolving nature of careers in student affairs, especially as professionals face mid-career questions and disruptions in life. Dr. Amy Hecht shares her own journey, returning to her alma mater after years spent at various institutions, and reflects on the unique challenges and opportunities this brings. She emphasizes how being away for decades allowed her to maintain objectivity and openness to making necessary changes—rather than being "married to" her undergraduate experience.

The podcast dives into the origins and vision for The Next Act book. As Dr. Amy Hecht explains, the project emerged during the COVID era, spurred by widespread burnout and the "Great Resignation." The book fills a major gap in the literature: it doesn't simply celebrate student affairs. Instead, it highlights realistic, sometimes raw conversations about burnout, career shifts, and redefining success. In her words, "There isn't one true path... It's an ebb and flow of a career over time and ways in which we find fulfillment."

You'll hear about chapters spotlighting professionals who've moved into K-12 education, consulting, the faculty route, or transitioned into other sectors within or outside higher education. Stories from people like Karen Warren Coleman, who found new fulfillment in K-12 school leadership, and Jeanna Mastrodicasa's pivot within her institution, show just how many ways student affairs expertise translates beyond traditional upward mobility.

Another powerful element highlighted is the Deck of Disruptors, adapted from Bruce Filer, which visually maps all the life events—both positive and negative—that can throw established plans off course. The episode makes it clear: disruptions are normal, and reevaluating career goals is healthy and essential.

Finally, the conversation underscores the enduring value of student affairs: building community, supporting students through crises, and adapting to meet institutional goals. Dr. Amy Hecht urges professionals to articulate impact in data-driven and narrative ways, showing how student affairs shapes retention, graduation, and life outcomes.

If you're contemplating your next steps, seeking inspiration, or just want to hear authentic voices in higher education leadership, tune in to this enlightening episode. It's a must-listen for anyone in student affairs considering what purpose, fulfillment, and possibilities look like in a changing world.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:02]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts brought to you by naspa. We curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you happen to be. This is season 13 on the value of student affairs. I'm Dr. Jill Creighton. She her hers your Essay Voices from the Field host Today on Essay Voices, we are going to be talking about the book the Next Realigning your mindset, purpose, and career. This was a book published by NASPA in March of 2025, co edited by Jason B. Pina and Amy Hecht and Associates.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:42]: Our guest today is Dr. Amy Hecht, who has served as Vice President for Student affairs at Florida State University since 2017 and is a nationally recognized leader in higher ed with extensive experience shaping student success, campus life, and institutional strategy. Prior to returning to her alma mater, Dr. Hecht served as Vice President for Student affairs at the College of New Jersey, or tcnj, and held positions at Auburn University, Temple University, Cabrini College, and the University of Pennsylvania at Florida State. Dr. Hecht has established FSU as a national example for excellence in fraternity and sorority life, expanded on campus housing, and created new programs and services designed to advance student success. She's provided steady leadership through numerous campus crises and has also overseen initiatives such as the Lift Recovery Program, Health Campus 2030, and the launch of the DC Study Away Program. Her leadership has driven 150% increase in philanthropic giving to student affairs, reflecting her ability to align fundraising with transformational student impact.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:39]: Dr. Hecht's accomplishments have been recognized nationally with NASPA's Pillar of the Profession Award and the Scott Goodnight Award for Outstanding performance as a VPSA. Beyond her administrative leadership, Dr. Hecht is a respected thought leader and author. She's co edited two books and is frequently invited to contribute to national dialogues on student success, leadership development, and the future of higher ed. Her next book, Telling Time Management of Women in Senior Student Affairs Roles, which she co authored, will be available in 2026. Dr. Hecht earned her Bachelor's degree in Mass Communication from Florida State University and her master's and doctorate in Higher Ed Administration from the University of Pennsylvania.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:14]: Hope you enjoy our conversation. Amy, welcome to SA Voices.

Dr. Amy Hecht [00:02:19]: Thank you. It's great to be here.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:20]: We always love featuring our pillars of the profession here on the NASPA podcast, and you've been around NASPA for quite a long time, contributing positively to the profession, to the organization, and most recently as an author, which is what we're going to be primarily talking to you about today. But before we get into the book the Next act, which is co edited by Dr. Jason Pina, who's up at NYU and we also would love to start by asking you how you got to your current seat at Florida State.

Dr. Amy Hecht [00:02:47]: Wow. So I started out like many people in student affairs because I was a very involved student at fsu. I, I am an alum and so it is a rare gift to go back to your alma mater. I was very involved and that is kind of my exposure to student affairs. Never thought I would come back to Florida. I actually wanted to be in the Northeast. Went to the University of Pennsylvania for my master's one year program. Got out and Pennsylvania has so many schools, was able to really spend quite a bit of time there.

Dr. Amy Hecht [00:03:21]: As I moved up and got to work with vice presidents and dean of students, I realized I loved the administration side. I loved the organizational development and realized I had to go back and get my doctorate. My GRE scores were going to expire and thought I'll go back and I'll go real slow because I wasn't sure I wanted to be back yet. In the classroom and the process, I really enjoyed it. I kind of fell in love with the concept of organizational learning and got a call to go to Auburn University from a mentor and was there for four years and he kind of said, okay, now you've been an avp, you're ready to be a V. I did not think I was really loved that AVP role, but became the Vice president at the College of New Jersey right outside of Philadelphia and became region director of Region 2 of the College of New Jersey. Loved being there, but did get a call from the search firm about Florida State. And early on in my career I tried to kind of get back to the state of Florida.

Dr. Amy Hecht [00:04:21]: It's where my family's from. Never worked out and was very flattered that I was nominated for FSU and said, oh, I'll just send them my resume, see what they think. Sure, there's way more qualified people. But I did get an airport interview and then fell in love with the people and the rest is history. So coming back, I've been, I had been gone, you know, over 20 years, so it is interesting. I know some of the history and some of the traditions and how important student life and the student experience is, but also worked many other places. So I kind of have the best of both worlds. I'm an insider, but haven't necessarily been brought up here and have only seen one thing.

Dr. Amy Hecht [00:05:01]: I've seen a lot of other institutions and how they operate.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:04]: I think that's always so interesting to go back to your alma mater. We have stories where people loved working on both ends of that as a student and as a full time administrator and other people who said that it really changed their perspective on their alma mater and not necessarily in the way that they wanted it to. So can you tell us a little bit more about creating some sense between the things you loved as an undergraduate student and the things that you're working towards improving as an administrator?

Dr. Amy Hecht [00:05:28]: I do think that's really interesting because now you kind of. Now this is how the sausage is made. And as a student, and I was not the SGA president, I didn't fill any of those roles. So I really didn't see some of the upper work happening at Florida State when I was a student. The state of Florida has a really great program called Bright Futures. So if you have a certain GPA and SAT score, you get 75% of your tuition paid. So for my family it was, this is choose one of the state schools in Florida and you're going there. Even though I had dreams of, I don't know, going to New York or Hawaii, but financially I was here, I do think it's challenging Florida State and maybe this is the same for all of the state schools in Florida.

Dr. Amy Hecht [00:06:08]: We get a tremendous amount of financial support from the state. They've been very generous and that comes with a lot of oversight. Other states that I've worked in have not had the level of oversight involvement of their state legislature. And I think that has been very difficult. But I do think me being gone as long as I have been and coming back, I am not as mirrored towards my experience has to be the experience of all of our future students. There are things that have changed and some that haven't since I had been gone. So I think that has helped me not kind of taint my own undergraduate experience once you see how it works. And there had.

Dr. Amy Hecht [00:06:49]: There were decisions made by administration when I was a student that now I'm thinking I'm paying for some of those decisions now, or we're trying to fix a decision that was made, you know, 20 something years ago. But for me it has, it hasn't been a problem, but I could see how, how it could be. But I do think that the length of time I was gone really helped because so much time has passed and I don't have a great memory of that long ago to really remember a lot of my undergrad experience for some reason. So I do think I'm able to make changes and not be kind of too married to any of the things that I experienced as a student.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:25]: Amy, we really want to dig into the book today, the Next act, which is one of NASPA's newest publications. It just came at an annual conference about five, six months ago. It's really filling a gap in the literature that we haven't seen before. So it was an exciting thing to see a book that really had some honesty in it around. Careers in Student affairs had more to it than the positive side of the profession. It had lots of realistic and truthful conversations in it from the people that wrote the essays. Lots of wonderful and familiar names in the author list as well. But you and Dr.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:58]: Pina had put this together. Can you talk about the vision for the book? What inspired you both to take a moment to put this into the space in the literature?

Dr. Amy Hecht [00:08:07]: Right now, I have to give my good friend Dr. Pina Credit. He came to me during COVID during the Great Resignation and all the challenges we experienced, and said, I think there's something here about what are people doing? What has been the effect of COVID And then as we were writing it, Covid kind of passed and, you know, we got back into In Person and it evolved to what it. What it became as the Next act, which I think for me personally, it was a really fulfilling project because I have always been someone who is focused on a goal. What is next? Someday I want to be a vice president of student affairs. Someday I want to do this. And getting my current position as the VP of Student affairs at Florida State is, in my opinion, one of the best jobs in student affairs in the country. Maybe others feel the same.

Dr. Amy Hecht [00:09:01]: And it was, well, what is next? And what if I don't want to do this work? What if I get too burnt out? So much has happened and so much has changed in the almost 30 years I've been in the profession. It is not at all what I thought it was, nor. Or is it the same as somebody who was a VP in 2001? A very different field, very different challenges, and it's all I've known as a career. It's all, you know, Jason is known as well, and it is what would be next? What could I do with all this experience, all this education and. Or am I trapped, personally, am I trapped in my current role or only in this job? And you're not, and not even if you're a vice president. But what do we do with these higher education degrees, these student affairs experiences. What if I want to get out of the fields? And what would that look like? And we, we kind of joked, I don't know if NASA is really going to want us to publish this book. That might be encouraging folks to look elsewhere.

Dr. Amy Hecht [00:10:05]: I have found it gave me a sense of security in read, reading the book and all of the fabulous authors journeys and it gave me a sense of peace of actually no, I'm making a choice to continue to be where I am. But if I wanted to find a new path or do something different, I have so many options that aren't necessarily just moving up in student affairs and becoming an AVP or a dean of students. There is a lot more we can do at these degrees that maybe aren't always put front and center or it's not how we entered thinking that was going to be our next goal. But there's still very fulfilling ways in which you can still contribute, use the skills you've obtained, the degrees that you've obtained. And I think there's a certain amount of freedom that that has given me and others who realize there isn't one true path. It's not always up and to the right. You know, you're not always just moving straight up and down. It's an ebb and flow of a, of a career over time and ways in which we find fulfillment.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:07]: One of the points made early on in the book is that, you know, millennials are coming into the vice presidencies now. Most millennials are in their early 40s at this point in time, which means there's 25 working years left in a career, which is more career left than has already been in the rear view. And that's a lot of time in a seat. It's a lot of time to think about, am I the right person for this seat for that long period of time? Is that the best thing for this institution? It's an interesting question to ask. We also have perspectives from presidents who have come through student affairs in the book. I think you just made that great point that the career trajectory doesn't always have to be quote, unquote upward. Not all of us want to be presidents of institutions. It's a really tricky time to be a president of an institution.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:50]: And much like a VPSA role, I think we're seeing a lot of transition and possibly burnout in the presidency position. So this book really kind of pathways out some different choices where we're still progressing, we're still learning, but doesn't necessarily mean that we have to continue to move up an institutional hierarchy to find fulfillment. So can you talk about the different pathways that are laid out in the book and maybe some chapters in particular from authors who have taken those pathways.

Dr. Amy Hecht [00:12:19]: I had that very same experience. I became a vice president in my 30s and most recently was meeting with my new president a few years ago. And he said, what do you want to do? And I said, well, I don't know. I'm happy right now, but I have another 20 plus years to work and I just don't know if I can do this work with the same energy and love for another 25 years. I'm good for now, but in all realism, I don't know if I could do it. And I think there are people who have done it and they do it well and I admire them, but I don't want to have to do it because I don't have another choice. And some of the chapters and Jason and I divided so he had half of the author and I had the other half and went back and forth on their chapters. But a few that really spoke to me.

Dr. Amy Hecht [00:13:07]: Karen Warren Coleman, she is a good friend of mine. We did start the AVP Institute at NASPA together. We were both AVPs at the same time. And she is currently ahead of A K through 12 school now in Philadelphia. She was in Texas and moved to a different sort of education. And her chapter, I wrote back after reading her chapter and I said, wow, you make this sound really exciting, exciting, really enticing. And the skills that you're using are, are so similar that I don't know if I thought of it because I did not grow up attending a boarding school or I went to public school in independent school. But you think of the skill set of these K through 12 or some version of that with housing, with dining, with mental health and curriculum, these heads of school, the skill set is very similar and very attractive.

Dr. Amy Hecht [00:14:05]: Something she felt would still allow her to come back to higher ed at a later date if she wanted. But I found that to be really interesting. I also had the chapter on going the consulting route and folks that have become either search consultants or working for any of the firms we've used across our campuses like Huron or kpmg and their knowledge being really great, adding some flexibility, perhaps earning a greater salary, but being aware of the differences of corporate America, the sales part of those jobs. I think I would love the research part, but they really shed light on the pieces that you might not think about is finding the business. You've got to bring in the work on that area. So I think each of the chapters are really interesting. There's a few others you mentioned the presidency, some that have gone to the faculty and are just excelling being in faculty coming from student affairs. A few that have worked outside of student affairs at their same institution are different.

Dr. Amy Hecht [00:15:12]: Using their institutional knowledge in a new way I think is something we don't often think about, but our skills are still applicable, whether it's in the academic affairs arm, research arm, or so on. So really looking at that I think is exciting. I do think it really opens the door and allows us to do what we tell students to do, which is think about those transferable skills, what they're learning inside and outside the classroom, and how it applies to any number of pieces.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:41]: There are a couple other ones to highlight in case practitioners listening are interested in picking this one up. One is about shifting roles within the same institution and I see a really familiar name to the podcast and to NASPA, Gino Mastodacaska and Katie O'Dare. Both of them have been in the NASPA world for a bit, but Gina transitioned completely into a different side of the institution out of student affairs after a long career in student affairs and is really thriving in a very different niche within the institution. I'm also seeing one on transitioning from higher ed into new industries and these are young industries that are happening outside of higher education. And as Amy mentioned, there's also some information here on the consulting role and some other things that are really valuable. There's a chapter also on shifting institution types and particularly I've heard from people that are trying to start serving community college spaces from four years and are struggling with that because the community college needs are quite different than a four year need and complete mindset shift around that. So an interesting one to call attention to.

Dr. Amy Hecht [00:16:42]: Absolutely. And I do think we're aware that serving different kinds of students makes a really big difference whether it's community college going to maybe an HBCU or an hsi urban versus rural. So those are all ways to kind of challenge our skill set, learn something new and then the going global chapter. Still you being in the uk, I dream someday of moving to a foreign country and having that experience. But the learning in that chapter and the opportunity to bring student affairs in America, which is not how most other countries deliver higher education, is great, but also the learning those authors shared because they had to also learn a new culture, not just of a campus but of a country to be able to deliver. I think is is a really interesting for those that can Find that kind of work and move their families or move themselves. I think it. That's a really exciting way and that Glass Going Global chapter.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:41]: And I'll give it a shout out to those authors. It's Dr. Ainslie Carey, Dr. Raphael X Moffat, and Dr. Baishaki Taylor, all of whom have been on Essay Voices. So if you want to hear their international voices, go check out our past season on International Voices in Student affairs and just give some credit for them because their episodes are wonderful. One of the things you feature in the book as well at the very, very beginning is something called the deck of Disruptors, which is kind of a theory that comes out of an author called Bruce Filer. And this deck of disruptors is basically a list of all the things in our life that can derail the pathways that we're on.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:14]: And I'd never seen this image before, and I thought it was quite interesting because I went, oh, well, these all are, I think, in some ways pretty obvious, but when you put them in one infographic, you go, oh, wait, this makes a lot of sense about why my pathway might need to change. Can you talk about your choice to include this image and kind of how that sets up the book?

Dr. Amy Hecht [00:18:32]: I think we don't talk about that a lot. I do think Covid has led many of us to collectively have a disruption. But disruptors can be positive and in some ways they can be negative. But they could be the birth of a child, a marriage, a spouse, getting a really new, exciting opportunity that requires you to move. It could be a divorce, illness, any number of pieces that make you stop and reexamine that goal of did I really always want to be a president or always want to be a vice president? It might not fit into your current priorities of what's important in your life at that moment. And I think that that is okay to acknowledge that, you know, we always. I. I laugh and I do this to my girls as well.

Dr. Amy Hecht [00:19:15]: What do you want to be when you grow up? And it's rare that you actually know the answer to that or you're going to stick to it, but I do think there's maybe an unconscious desire to stick to what we said we were going to do when we started out. I knew a lot of folks that said, I'm going to go into higher ed and eventually become a president. I know very few of them who still want to become a president of an institution. So I think it's also giving grace of just because you said you always wanted to become X, your journey might require something different. And that's okay. It's okay to shift. And there's lots of disruptions. And in fact, we in our life are having more of those disruptions than we've ever had.

Dr. Amy Hecht [00:19:57]: And that is why our careers ebb and flow. And that is a natural part of life is those kinds of things that might disrupt us, our path. And growing up, you don't think of getting married or having a child as maybe causing you to reorganize, organize your priorities. But it absolutely does. And it's always interesting to see why people go on those paths. And some of our authors do share their reasons for stepping out of higher ed into consulting or going into the faculty. Some of it is just professional and career fulfillment, but some of it is because life things happened in their life and they needed to adapt and evolve.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:34]: If you'd like to look this up again, it's called Deck of Disruptors, and it breaks down the disruptors into five major categories of love, beliefs, work, identity, and body. So it's things like a car accident or being diagnosed with an illness or maybe a change in your living situation or, you know, something related to a change in your relationship or something like that. So lots of different ones to look up again. The author of this infographic is Bruce Filer. Fantasy E I L E R Amy, I want to talk a little bit about the process of creating an edited volume like this. You've been an author and a scholar for a long time and published your own work, but it's a little bit different when you're the holder of the keys for a volume like this. If I've been authoring and I want to do something like this, how do I even begin?

Dr. Amy Hecht [00:21:19]: Sure, that's. That is a good question. I've had folks ask that. Jason and I have now done two edited books. Some people love that process and some people do not. I love it. It is important to pick great authors. So we shaped the idea and submitted it to NASPA with our wish list of authors of who we know, who we may tap to write some of the chapters we came up with.

Dr. Amy Hecht [00:21:44]: And after being approved by naspa, we started inviting authors and in some cases needed to get new recommendations, making sure we had kind of a diversity of experiences that we could find and know people who went to K12 or who became president. And for us this time we divided those authors and we go back and forth on their chapter. We have found asking them to outline it and have a due date and then write us a little more. And then we are constantly reading, giving feedback, making sure that they are staying true to the purpose we submitted to NASPA at the beginning, but also capturing their voice and their expertise and their journey and making sure that as we read it, we hope that the readers aren't going to be left with any questions. So we ask, you know, them to expand on this or if you're willing, can you share the reason why you did Y or X, Y and Z? Because I think for authors, being as raw and as vulnerable is really useful to know that other people are struggling with maybe taking a step back in their career for their children or maybe stepping out so that their spouse can do something different. And we don't often talk about that. So I thought that was that was kind of part of it. I mean we read it multiple times, but then we read it holistically and together to make sure that it flows and kind of tells a cohesive story.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:07]: And you've got another volume coming out next year on empowering women in leadership and student affairs. Can you say anything about that at this point?

Dr. Amy Hecht [00:23:14]: Yes, we have submitted that book and we're waiting for edits from our editor. But that book is will be called Telling Time. It is authored book me and four other women on senior women in student affairs and how they use their time. We conducted over a hundred studies of women's use of time in 15 minute increments, really trying to capture the story of how women prioritize different aspects of their life, how in which they care for children, care for loved ones, spend time on relationships and attempt to balance everything and prioritize at different points. And you know, you really can't have it all. We know that. But but how are women kind of using their most precious resource, which is time, when they have a lot of competing priorities.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:24:02]: Would you like to shout out your co authors?

Dr. Amy Hecht [00:24:03]: I will Angela Chong, who is the VP at the University of Oregon Brittany Deves, who works at Florida State with me and fraternity and sorority life Kelly Hennessy at the College of New Jersey and Tina Torme, also at the College of New Jersey. Some awesome women writers. And so we are, we are really excited for that book to come out hopefully in 2026.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:24:25]: Looking forward to reading that study. Any highlights that you can share about your findings early on?

Dr. Amy Hecht [00:24:29]: Some highlights is most of us, most of the women do not spend time thinking about how they use their time like we would our financial budget or budgeting our time doing the study kind of forced some of these women to do that and reprioritize wastes of time, things that we do to kind of decompress that feel good in the moment, but in hindsight, don't. Just like a diet, if you're writing everything down, you're going, oh, that wasn't probably the best thing for me to eat. It felt good in the moment. We found that with, with time as well. And just even if you're not participating in a study, even just doing that has helped people feel more productive. But we also found what I say, I prioritize. The majority of us don't spend our time on the things that we say are a priority. And I think that doing this periodically, even with a friend, can just help you stay true to what you say, you value or what's important to you.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:23]: This season, we're focusing on the value of student affairs as our theme. And we've been asking the same three theme questions to all of our guests, so I'd love to pose those to you now. Our first question is, when you think about the value of student affairs, what comes to mind first and why?

Dr. Amy Hecht [00:25:38]: What comes comes to me first is really community. I think community both on our campuses, that is what we do. We create places for people to belong, for people to feel that they matter, people to find their purpose. We do that with our students. I feel we do it with our staff and our teams. And I think naspa, they do it actually for the globe because we're an international organization. But there's so many different levels of community that I have seen throughout my career. Help students, help staff, help vice presidents and others, navigate really tough issues, but feel like you are not alone.

Dr. Amy Hecht [00:26:15]: And I think that is probably our superpower.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:18]: Our second question, can you share a specific story or moment when you saw the value of student affairs come to life?

Dr. Amy Hecht [00:26:23]: Quite a bit. During my 8 years now at Florida State, we've had a significant challenge almost every year. I'm going to knock on wood, but we had a, most recently a campus shooter in our student union, which is the living room of our campus. Brand new building, beautiful, very open space, purposefully all glass so you can see throughout the multiple levels. And our sense of safety for the staff and our faculty and our students was disrupted in that moment. Several students were injured. We lost two administrators, one that worked in our dining and one who is a visiting vendor. And in the heels of that, seeing my team come together to support each other, to support students, to do things outside of their job description, to help heal both themselves and our students and our community.

Dr. Amy Hecht [00:27:16]: Everything from creating new community centers because we couldn't use our student union. So we did that on campus. But then the outpouring from colleagues across the country, offers to help was incredible. And the value of student affairs flexibility, our knowledge of emergency protocol, our ability to counsel students to be vulnerable with them was really telling. Myself and the president would often come to our newly created community center and the president would say, this is as healing for me as it is for these students. And I say, you know, absolutely, being in community with people after a crisis is the best way to heal. And I think our contributions were seen by everyone and we felt at Florida State the love from those that were thinking of us during that tragedy.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:12]: Thank you for sharing that really vulnerable piece of the student affairs stories because I think when we have violence and other components like that that happen to our campuses or loss of a student or something like that, I know for me, I've carried those moments with me personally for a really. And so we're there supporting everybody else and also trying to figure out how to take care of ourselves as human beings in those moments. And those are incredibly hard. So thank you and your team for holding, holding all that for the Florida State students. Our third question is what do you think that student affairs needs to do to be better understood and better seen in today's educational environment?

Dr. Amy Hecht [00:28:49]: I do think that that is a challenge. It's one what we're facing at Florida State, I think some of it is we've got to translate our impact into the language that our institutions are using. Graduation, retention rates, career readiness. How are we contributing to the metrics that in the state of Florida and elsewhere, we are being measured on. We know there are other words that we can use that are important and valued, but we need to be speaking the language that others at the institution are using. We need to do better with data and telling our story and having the data to show some of what may be seen as an extra or an add on or a nice to have the value of that and the benefit, whether that's to mental health, a sense of belonging, graduation and retention, a lot of those pieces. And I feel there are so many contemporary issues on our campus event safety, free speech, mental health, workforce development, career readiness. All of those things are within student affairs realm, things that we do naturally, not just in the departments whose name, you know, are associated, but all of what we do.

Dr. Amy Hecht [00:29:59]: And so I think it's really sharing that. And being at the table, I think is important for the policy and the budget, I would say, are some of the top things we need to do and Become like Pat Whiteley, also one of our authors, the best vice president on the cabinet. How are you part of those conversations and shaping the narrative and bringing the student voices and the student experience to the table?

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:21]: As someone who gets to interact with that cabinet and also the students and the families that are at fsu, what data points are you bringing to the table right now that are really helping tell that story?

Dr. Amy Hecht [00:30:32]: Some of them are the fact that students that are living on campus with us and we have 45,000 students, but only 6,700 on campus beds. But of those, they have higher GPAs, they're retained at greater rates, and they graduate at higher levels. So that is a telling, powerful story of what is happening in our residence halls that does not happen in an off campus apartment. And how do we grow that experience so that more students have that opportunity? And so we are adding to our bed count. We are also investing in six months post graduation. Where are our students? Where are our graduates? Are they in graduate school? Are they gainfully employed? And then where are they five years out, 10 years out telling that story? And what were those experiences they had at fsu? You that they contribute to their career success? And oftentimes it is the job at campus recreation, it is being an ra, it is being in the student government that was a powerful experience that they still refer to. And I think telling those stories and putting alumni out there is really important. But part of kind of that value of what we do.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:41]: Are you using any narrative data points in order to help tell the story of student affairs, especially for areas of student affairs that maybe we can't as easily create cause and effect data or demonstrate that the support that we're offering students in those spaces might, might have that long term impact on their journey, but maybe is not evident. Semester one to semester two, we do.

Dr. Amy Hecht [00:32:04]: We can do better. We do collect some narratives, especially when it's a sensitive topic like our emergency Student aid fund and the impact it has or victims advocate program or case management. We could do more, of course, and really bringing those stories to life. But I do think it's very impactful. I've seen it impact our board of trustees who hear one story and then we say there are 30 others behind this story that show the impact of, you know, our food pantry or any of the programs we have.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:33]: Amy, as we conclude our conversation on the book and the work that you're doing at Florida State, is there anything else you want to put into our space today?

Dr. Amy Hecht [00:32:41]: One of the great things about my current gig is that you can kind of dream. I'm really proud of like a number of things we're doing, some of which are advancing like the greater goals of Florida State. We just launched a DC Study Away program which is modeled after our International Study Abroad program. We have property housing purchased in Washington D.C. and we will have our students living there and interning fall, spring and summer and that aligns with our President's goals as well as our VP of Research goals which is to have a greater presence in D.C. and it was really fulfilling to be able to kind of plant the first flag for Florida State in D.C. and hopefully others will come. A lot of schools have already gotten to the DC market and have different programs, but the one we're contributing right now is a very student centric experience that we want to give our students the opportunity to live and learn in Washington D.C.

Dr. Amy Hecht [00:33:41]: so that's exciting and who knows what new ideas we'll come up with here and try to implement.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:46]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:33:53]: Thanks Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world and there's a ton of things happening in NASPA. The NASPA Annual Conference has identified two of their keynote speakers for the 2026 NASPA Annual Conference. The Tuesday keynote will be Dr. Kevin McClure. Dr. McClure is a professor, researcher and speaker dedicated to reimagining the higher education workplace. A distinguished Scholar of higher education, McClure holds the joint title of professor of Higher Education and Department Chair at the University of North Carolina, Wilmington.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:25]: He is the author of the Caring Reimagining the Higher Education Workplace after the Great Resignation. His research on college leadership, workplace culture and organizational care has been featured in the Chronicle of Higher Edition Education and at national conferences. Through McClure's writing, keynotes and workshops, he helps leaders create people first campuses where faculty and staff can thrive. McClure is passionate about helping colleges and universities build a culture where faculty and staff can thrive because when employees feel supported, students and institutions succeed. Our closing keynote is Dr. Amelia Parnell. Dr. Parnell is an accomplished higher education executive and an internationally recognized thought leader regarding current issues in EM trends in the field.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:11]: She is a passionate advocate for higher education as a tool for personal advancement and impact, and she is committed to work that centers students needs. In her first year as NASPA President, she has met the members across the world, including NASPA regions, divisions, knowledge communities and areas, and has visited more than 25 campuses to speak directly with student affairs professionals. She frequently delivers keynotes on the value of student affairs and has been quoted in the Wall Street Journal, the Chronicle of Higher Education, Inside Higher Ed, and the PBS NewsHour. Dr. Parnell holds a PhD in higher education from Florida State University and a master's and bachelor's degree in Business Administration from Florida A and M University. Just a reminder that the early registration deadline for the 2026 conference ends on December 17th. You can register today on the NASPA website. Do you need help funding attendance at an upcoming NASPA event? Event NASPA Foundation Access Scholarships may be able to help Donor Gifts have funded scholarships directly supporting conference registrations and on site housing for select NASPA events and opportunities.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:36:19]: The following dates are the deadlines for some of the upcoming applications. November 12th is the deadline for the first cycle of Student affairs educator certification. November 14th is the deadline for the 2026 NASPA strategies conferences as well as the 2026 NASPA institute for new AVPs and the 2026 NASPA AVP symposium. You can find out more on the NASPA website. Finally, NASPA, alongside a coalition of 38 science, business, education and research organizations, submitted public comments to Citizenship and Immigration Services opposing the proposed rule to implement a wage level lottery for cap subject H1B petition. The comments indicated that the proposed rule would privilege seniority in lower wage occupations over genuinely high wage, high skill roles, undermine the retention of early career STEM talent educated in the US and weaken US Scientific and economic competitiveness. The coalition urged USCIS to withdraw the proposed rule. If you'd like to see the comments on this proposed rule, you can learn more in the Policy Hub on the NASPA website.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:37:34]: Every week we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association, so we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways. Because the association is as strong as its members and for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself where do you fit? Where do you want to give back? Each week we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in naspa.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:59]: Chris, thank you so much for another informative NASPA world. We appreciate you keeping us up to date on what's going on in and around naspa. And Amy, it is time for our lightning round where I ask you seven questions in about 90 seconds. You ready to roll?

Dr. Amy Hecht [00:39:13]: I'm ready.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:14]: All right, question number one, if you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

Dr. Amy Hecht [00:39:19]: The Fugees, Ready or not.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:20]: Number two, when you were five years old, what did you want to be when you grew up?

Dr. Amy Hecht [00:39:23]: A doctor.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:24]: Number three, who's your most influential professional mentor?

Dr. Amy Hecht [00:39:27]: Ainslie Carey.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:28]: Number four, your essential student affairs read right now.

Dr. Amy Hecht [00:39:31]: The next act.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:32]: Number five, the best TV show you've been binging lately.

Dr. Amy Hecht [00:39:34]: Scandal.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:35]: Number six, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

Dr. Amy Hecht [00:39:38]: The Daily New York Times.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:40]: And finally, number seven, any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional to?

Dr. Amy Hecht [00:39:44]: My friend Jason Pina, thank you so much for always calling me to partner with any crazy idea you have. So so shout out to him.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:52]: Amy, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom today. If anyone would like to converse with you after the show, how can they find you?

Dr. Amy Hecht [00:39:58]: Best Way is LinkedIn. You can find me on LinkedIn @AmyHacked or my email at FloridaState is ahactsu.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:06]: Amy, thank you so very much for sharing your voice with us today.

Dr. Amy Hecht [00:40:09]: Thank you. It's great to be with you.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:15]: This has been an episode of Savage Voices from the Field brought to you by naspa. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to be so grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email [email protected] or find me on LinkedIn by searching for Dr. Jill L. Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions always. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a five star review on Apple, Podcast, Spotify or wherever you're listening now.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:45]: It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton. That's me. Produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan, Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

If you work in higher education or care about college access and affordability, "Student Affairs Voices from the Field" continues to be a must-listen. In this season's fifth episode, host Dr. Jill Creighton welcomes Melanie Storey, President and CEO of the National Association of Student Financial Aid Administrators (NASFAA), to demystify the changing landscape of student financial aid and its deep ties to student affairs.

The episode dives headfirst into the rapid-fire changes shaping higher education funding today. Melanie, bringing decades of experience from policy implementation at the U.S. Department of Education and leadership roles throughout Washington, D.C., articulates how student financial aid has evolved. From its beginnings with the Higher Education Act and the emergence of need-based aid, she describes the ongoing tension between supporting students with the greatest financial need and responding to broader shifts in public opinion about the value of higher education.

A major theme in the conversation is the "One Big Beautiful Bill Act" (OB3), which is making waves with its broad changes to loan programs, repayment plans, and institutional accountability. Melanie clarifies complex topics like Public Service Loan Forgiveness (PSLF), repayment clarity, and the introduction of earnings measures for universities. She urges student affairs professionals to recognize the uncertainty this creates for students—not just in their financial planning but in their emotional well-being and sense of security while pursuing degrees.

For families embarking on their college journey, Melanie recommends making the most of resources like StudentAid.gov and financial aid estimators, emphasizing that fit—academic, social, and financial—matters more than chasing prestigious institutions. She also unpacks new programs like Workforce Pell, which expands grant eligibility to short-term vocational programs, opening new avenues for career-focused students.

Throughout, Melanie champions student affairs professionals as the human heart of higher education. Whether helping students navigate anxiety about finances or bridging connections with financial aid offices, she sees these campus leaders as vital advocates and problem-solvers.

If you're looking for practical insights, clarity on policy changes, and a dose of optimism in "interesting" times, this episode will deepen your understanding. Tune in to hear about the evolving relationship between student affairs and financial aid—and be reminded why student affairs matters more than ever in helping students thrive.

Listen to "Student Affairs Voices from the Field: Melanie Storey" now and join the conversation shaping the future of higher education!

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts brought to you by naspa. We curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you happen to be. This is season 13 on the value of student affairs. I'm Dr. Jill Creighton. She her hers your Essay Voices from the Field host Today on Essay Voices, it's our privilege to welcome Melanie Storey, who is the President and CEO of nasfa, which is the national association of Student Financial Aid Administrators. She began her tenure on May 1st of 2025. With decades of experience in federal higher education policy, financial aid operations and organizational leadership, Story brings deep expertise and a steadfast commitment to advancing access and equity in higher education.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:52]: Storey most recently served as Director of Policy Implementation and oversight at the U.S. of Education's Office of Federal Student Aid, or FSA, where she led cross functional teams in translating federal policy into practice. She played a central role in implementing the FAFSA Simplification act and the Future act, and contributed to major initiatives like federal student loan debt relief. She frequently represented FSAA before congressional staff, administration officials, and higher education leaders. Before joining the department, Story led policy and strategy work at the College Board and served as Director of National Initiatives at the American Council on Education, where she supported national commissions, analyzed legislative proposals, and led public service campaigns. Earlier in her career, she was a policy analyst at the national association of Independent Colleges and Universities, or naicu, conducting research and collaborating with government relations staff on federal policy proposals impacting private institutions. A proud first generation college graduate and financial aid recipient, Saray earned a Master's degree in Public affairs from the Lyndon B. Johnson School at the University of Texas at Austin and holds a bachelor degree in Economics and Public Policy seat from Smith College.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:03]: Melanie welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field.

Melanie Storey [00:02:06]: Thank you, thank you. Hey Jill, it's great to be with y' all today.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:08]: I always love doing crossovers with other higher ed professional associations because we all occupy the same industry but very different lanes within the industry, almost like many verticals. So it's great to talk to a subject matter expertise in in an area that deeply affects the student affairs profession. But most of us definitely are not.

Melanie Storey [00:02:25]: Experts on yeah, no, I really appreciate it and I think more than ever in the current environment it is so important that we we be talk about the things that we're facing within our own lanes, but across our lanes because it is really a pretty transformational time that we're dealing with right now. I keep saying that I welcome to live in less interesting times, but I don't think that that's going to happen anytime soon. So I really welcome the opportunity to spend some time together, talk about student affairs and financial aid.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:52]: The meme that I keep seeing is, you know, I'm tired of unprecedented times. I'd rather go back to precedented times. And I think a lot, you know.

Melanie Storey [00:03:00]: Whatever the Confucius may, you live in interesting times. I'm like, no, thank you. I'm have a NASA thumb. Thanks. I'm good.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:06]: We could use some boring around here. That'd be fine.

Melanie Storey [00:03:07]: I'll take it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:08]: But Melanie, you've been with NASA now just for a hair over a year, I believe, and came to NASA from the U.S. department of Education. But we like to get to know our guests more specifically by asking, how did you get to your current seat, if you wouldn't mind sharing the journey?

Melanie Storey [00:03:22]: Yeah, so it might feel like a hair over a year, but it's really only been about five months. I started in late spring at NASA, took some time off from my time at the department. I took a little cleanser time before jumping in. So I have always been what I will say, say is financial aid adjacent. I guess I haven't worked in a financial aid office in my career, but I started even in undergrad, really focused on education policy. I was really interested in policy from the very start. And when I finished my undergrad, I moved to Washington, as many young, eager people do with, you know, kind of like a suitcase and a very light checkbook and hope for the best. I kind of fell into higher education policy.

Melanie Storey [00:04:01]: You know, I think a lot of policy programs tend to focus on K12, and that was kind of true for me early on. And then my first job was with a contractor on the Pell Grant, Right. Fundamental grant to support low income students. And I kind of, it opened my eyes to higher education policy and access and affordability. And I'm a first generation college student. And it was really like, well, yeah, duh, this is, this is important. Like this really makes really important change in people's lives. And so it kind of started there.

Melanie Storey [00:04:30]: I've been in Washington almost the entirety since then. I've worked for various associations that represent college and university presidents, the College Board, and then as you mentioned, the U.S. department of Education. So I've always been fully committed to affordability and access and making sure that the doors of higher education are open to all those that seek it. And so when the NASPA position opened, it really is a dream job. For me, I mean, it is leading a group of incredibly dedicated professionals who share the principles and goals that I have built my entire career around. And so I'm thrilled to be in the job. It is definitely a challenging time, but I'm fully committed and proud to be the voice of those who are committed to the students that they serve.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:10]: And NASFA for our listeners, if you're new to this particular acronym, is the national association of Student Financial Aid Administrators. So a sister cousin organization to us here at naspa.

Melanie Storey [00:05:22]: And oftentimes you use naspa, nasfa. You have to be very diction has to be really good to make sure you're not confusing us.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:28]: There's also nafsa, which is the students abroad.

Melanie Storey [00:05:32]: You know, we joke about the Alphabet soup. It's real. But yes. Yeah, NASA, student financial aid administrators.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:37]: And just because I'm originally from the Seattle metro area, I do want to clarify. Melanie's in Washington D.C. that's important.

Melanie Storey [00:05:43]: That is the bubble you've identified that we, when you're here too long, you just, you make these assumptions. Yes. I have largely lived in Washington D.C. for most of my career. I did spend a few years in Austin doing some graduate work. Washington D.C. which quite frankly Washington State and Seattle sound much better these days.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:01]: Melanie, you have seen the arc of student financial aid, student affordability change drastically over the course of your career. Can you talk us through a bit of kind of what that rainbow has looked like from what the mission looked like when you started versus kind of what the daily work looks like now?

Melanie Storey [00:06:18]: Yeah, I mean that's a really, it's an interesting question. Right, like what that ARC looks like just to like sort of level set, right. Like financial aid and the sort of art and science. And I like to talk about it a little bit as both sometimes the art and science of financial aid really came to pass with the Higher Education Act. So the Higher Education act of course is what really codified some of the core financial aid programs. Loans, preexisted basic education grants, but Pell grants, federal student loans, the kind of things we know about today. So that means it's about 60 years old. So not that old in relation to some of the other things, but pretty well established.

Melanie Storey [00:06:54]: And I think what we're kind of facing now is you kind of have the stor norm kind of things that happen. And I think that's a little bit of what you see in the arc. I think in the early days you saw this really kind of visceral commitment to need based aid and the primacy of need based aid. And just for clarity, need based aid is directing funds to the students who need the funds in order to access post secondary education. So the counterbalance to that would be merit so that, you know, scholarships and aid that is awarded based on a student's achievement in any number of areas. But I think in the federal programs you saw a real commitment and dedication to the focus on need and lower income families and giving them the support they needed to make sure that their students had access to higher education. Over the course of my time I think we've seen a lot of push and pull around this need merit debate. And you know, they don't have to be mutually exclusive, although the pie is limited.

Melanie Storey [00:07:52]: I don't want to make it seem like it is without boundaries, but you tend to see a movement where loans, federal student loans, are less targeted toward the lowest income students. They are generally since the mid-80s, I won't get into legislative language, but since the mid late 80s that middle income and even middle upper income families can also access loans with the core sort of grant programs still really being focused on the lowest income students. But that sets up a lot of policy challenges and appropriations challenges. Right? Loans are mandatory, funded, they don't have to be funded every year. Again getting kind of technical, But Pell grants have to be funded every year. So you see this kind of tension kind of building over the course of my career. The other thing that I think has really been a dramatic shift and we're seeing it play out in public opinion polling and in other places where the general public is being asked is around the value of higher education, whether it's federal or state. Governments are literally investing hundreds of billions.

Melanie Storey [00:08:50]: It's not over time, trillions of dollars in higher education. They want to know what they're buying and that they're getting a value for that investment. And I think confidence in the value of higher education has really changed over the course of my career. And so that has a kind of broader. It's not specific to financial aid, but it has a real impact because financial aid of course is the distribution of the funds that are invested in this effort. And so I think one of the things, and I'm sure we'll get to this at some point that I and thinking about at NASA is how do we recapture that narrative? How do we really fully demonstrate the transformative value of higher education, whether it be for the individual, the family, the community, but also our nation. It drives innovation, it drives research and really making sure that, that we can tell that story and the return on that investment. So that has been sort of the overall kind of context that I think has really changed in higher education.

Melanie Storey [00:09:44]: So you both want to make sure that you're focusing on need based aid. Although merit has value and we see more of that, but also that we can demonstrate that what we're investing in is really advancing individuals, communities in our nation.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:56]: We're in a situation now where the Department of Education is really changing the way that financial aid is implemented and distributed to students at the undergraduate and graduate levels. We saw the one big beautiful Bill ACT pass just a couple of months ago. We know a lot of those changes aren't actually going to take effect until the next academic year or some even beyond that. But NASA has developed a really great chart resource that talks about a lot of the changes and where they impact us and our students. But from a student affairs professional perspective, there's a large number of us who have been relying on public service loan forgiveness for our own journeys. So I'm wondering if we can start there and can you tell us what we know about how the OBBBA is going to change how we engage with federal financial aid from ourselves as professionals?

Melanie Storey [00:10:50]: Yeah. Wow. That's a good question. I call it OB3 because the one big beautiful Bill act is a tongue twister and a lot of words. So I'm going to just default to my OB3 if you don't mind.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:00]: That's great. I'm going to steal that.

Melanie Storey [00:11:02]: Yeah, it just, it's a lot when you talk about this and you lose a lot of time speaking that way. So a couple of things about ob. Let's start with public service loan forgiveness. Public service loan forgiveness has had a journey of its own, is I think, sort of a policy that, while deeply well intentioned, has been victim to overwrought design at times. When we saw that early on when so few people were able to be eligible or be able to demonstrate that they were, I think in the previous administration we saw great strides in being able to kind of bring clarity to it and be able to ensure that more folks who were dedicating their careers to public service were able to take advantage of it. And then the current administration, I think is looking at it a little bit differently, although, you know, I don't. My crystal ball is often cracked, I think, in terms of forgiveness programs. And I say that deliberately because remember in the previous administration there was a lot of talk around forgiveness broadly that was really around what they saw was dysfunction in the loan repayment area.

Melanie Storey [00:11:59]: And so they were there was a desire to try to provide some relief to borrowers who quite frankly had been victim of a lot of confusion in the loan repayment space. I think all the politics of that aside, that's largely settled law at this point. We're not going to see broad based forgiveness. There's no appetite for that. And quite frankly, you know, I think it has kind of been before the courts and the decision has been made. Public service loan forgiveness, however, is different. It has generally enjoyed bipartisan support. I do think that there is support for supporting individuals who may forego bigger salaries or lots of things in order to commit 10 years of their life to public service.

Melanie Storey [00:12:38]: So I'm pretty confident that PSLF is on solid ground now. Do I think that that means it won't be without some changes? The answer there, I'm afraid to say, is no. And the two things that I would point out, I'm sure if you're following this, you're aware that there was a negotiated rulemaking that's a very fancy Washington D.C. term for regulatory debate and regulatory effort to define what a qualifying employer would be. This was an unusual negotiated rulemaking. It tended to lean less from the operational regulatory side and more into what I would call sort of value driven, that kind of work. The challenging thing about operationalizing something like PSLF and just for folks who may not know, when I was at the US Department of Education, I was on the implementation side at Federal Student Aid, the operational side. So I tend to think about policies not just in their goals, but like how do you actualize it, how do you implement it? And the thing about PSLF is the way to implement it is really through the tax code, C3S, 501, C6S, where they do certain things.

Melanie Storey [00:13:37]: That is the way to do it in a broad scale way. Trying to put a layer on this of some sort of value structure based on an administration's goals is really complicated in an implementation way. So I think what you saw in that regulatory process was a honing that if you are working for an organization that has been determined to have violated the law, you may not be eligible for psof. Well, which has violated the law. Like, I mean not to get like start to split the hairs, but that just gets really complicated and I think it's going to take time. So on that arena, while I understand it is setting and maybe a little panicking, I encourage folks to take a breath. These things take a long time. They've gone through the regulatory process, they'll issue a rule.

Melanie Storey [00:14:19]: But how it gets operationalized. And whether or not someone would truly lose their eligibility based on an employer's bad act is going to be a much more complicated process than just it's not going to shut the spigot off overnight. The other piece though that I think is up for debate on PSLF is the idea of unlimited forgiveness. And I love to my colleagues in higher education, some of our wounds are self inflicted. And there have been programs who have encouraged significant borrowing based on the fact that a student would see all of their loans forgiven after 10 years. That really wasn't the intention of this program. Significant debt forgiven at the end. It was to encourage, you know, folks to consider public service careers.

Melanie Storey [00:14:58]: So I do think there's potentially an appetite to see some limitations on the amount of debt to be forgiven. Now, whether or not that can be done unilaterally without some grandfathering in of students who are already in pslf. Right. There's other debates to be had about that, but I do think on the PSLF front that that's something that is likely to be to reemerge and to be debated. The rest of the OB3 stuff. And as you said, we have a chart. I don't know how many pages long it is. It's at least a couple, maybe three, I don't know.

Melanie Storey [00:15:27]: There are a lot of provisions in there and importantly big picture spans programs for short term workforce programs fundamentally changes the borrowing landscape how much students can borrow, particularly in the graduate level. And then the repayment plans which repayment is a source of real pain for borrowers. Too many plans, very confusing. What's eligible for forgiveness, how long? I mean it's, it's NASA strongly recommended and supports a more clarity and streamlining in the repayment program. So important work there. We might have haggled around the edges in terms of where we landed but I think it's important that we have different repayment and then some accountability for institutions. Again, back to this return on investment. But so for student affairs professionals, all of this uncertainty and lack of clarity is really unnerving for students.

Melanie Storey [00:16:17]: Finance in college, it's a huge investment of time and money and commitment and no guarantee of outcome. I mean the statistics bear it out. But you know, the job market is tough, right? There's just a lot. And so it impacts you all personally. Student loan forgiveness, repayment, all of that. But also the students on your campus are increasingly experiencing worry, anxiety every semester. Is the bill paid? Can I register for my classes? It's very. And not having certainty.

Melanie Storey [00:16:46]: Am I going to be able to borrow enough money for graduate school. Am I going to be eligible for this program that will help me get through that? That level of uncertainty is really disruptive to the learning, to the experience, to all parts of it. And I think a lot of that often comes to student, you know, to student affairs professionals who are, you know, in place to really engage and support students in their post secondary life.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:09]: It's an interesting time as well because we just saw a modification to the FAFSA within the last couple of. I think it was the last year really. 24, 25 was the first year.

Melanie Storey [00:17:18]: Yes.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:18]: That the FAFSA changed. So we're just seeing kind of fast, intentional but complicated changes to the student loan grant landscape in the United States along with college affordability being part of the conversation, along with a change in administration, et cetera. So if I'm a family looking at federal aid for the first time, maybe I'm a first generation family that's attending college. What is your pro tip for making heads and tails of the situation that people see in front of them?

Melanie Storey [00:17:47]: Yeah, so I would say two things. One is if available in your community, if there is a community based organization or someone in your high school or your church or wherever your community may reside that support sort of FAFSA completion and that work, I encourage you to build those relationships. Now they are the folks on the front lines that are really along with financial aid administrators. But you don't tend to really have a relationship with them until you've chosen your school. But they are the ones who are going to be super knowledgeable on kind of how the changes are coming. That might feel like a bridge twofold. So what can you do in the Meantime? Go to StudentAid.gov StudentAid.gov is the front door of the U.S. department of Education's kind of home as it relates to federal student aid.

Melanie Storey [00:18:29]: Look up or just Google federal Student Aid estimator. We can drop a link somewhere. But the federal student Aid estimator, it's not a full fafsa, even though the FAFSA is much faster and easier now. And I'm going to put a plug in there, but it's not time. But if you're say a junior, right, A sophomore or junior, you're on the front end of this. Go to the federal student Aid estimator, ask you maybe five, six, seven questions. It's pretty easy. You don't need to bring any paperwork and it'll just give you an estimate of what is called your student aid index.

Melanie Storey [00:18:55]: It'll Give you a sense of what your family circumstances might make you eligible for the outcome of that estimator. That SAI is really important because every school that your young person might be considering also is required to have something called a net price calculator. And I'm getting into the weeds, but follow along with me here, right? The net price calculators is an estimate of the types of aid they provide to a family generally like yours, based on the outputstudentaid.gov site. And so use those net prices. Be realistic. If I had one like magic wand I could wave, I was like, please, can we move away from the narrative of elite drinking? Can we move away from the narrative that there's a single school for every individual? You know, like there's a single aspirational school. It really needs to be about fit. It needs to be about academic fit, social fit, financial fit, and students need to be academically, socially and financially ready for post secondary education.

Melanie Storey [00:19:53]: So starting to hone in on what that social, academic and financial fit is, one of the things you can do is understand what you might be eligible for generally and then at schools that might be that you might be interested in or your student might be interested in, and then start building your lists, having the conversations, understanding what the overall cost of colleges, tuition, room and board, how far away from home, what is the transportation going to look like, what other options are for housing are there. Right. There's some costs that you can control and some that you have less control over. So if I, and I do advise families at times, you know, who are first generation, first interactions with post secondary education, is to do the research up front, be open in those conversations and be open to all of the types of institutions that might be available to you that really I think there is a lot of words around aspirational schools and it's great to have an aspirational school and if it works out, great. But I want to caution people by being too myopic, that and then not necessarily making smart financial decisions and maybe not getting the right return on their investment because of that.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:59]: I think in student affairs we be the very first to support students in their journey to find the right university or college for them. We're big proponents of community college education, of technical college education, and figuring out if the four year university is the right move for a person or if it's going to be one of the privates or if it's going to be a large public. There's different, there's something for everybody at the higher education level. So Long as we're supporting students in the journey they want to find.

Melanie Storey [00:21:24]: So yeah, that it really is. That's such a big piece. But I didn't even mention private colleges. But you know, when I talk about price, people always think private colleges are out of reach, but they often have more money to give. Right. Like. So that's why I really want you to. I want people to think broadly about their lists and do the work to see what might be a fit.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:40]: So on the other end of this we have some changes to institutional accountability as it applies to federal financial aid. And I think this is where student affairs plays a big role in supporting students through persistence to degree completion and then ultimately helping them help students set themselves up for success in the job market. But I think these institutional changes also maybe turn the mission of higher education for us. And I think that's a debatable point for some, maybe not for all. Some would say that higher education is to expand critical thinking skills. And for those who have kind of the luxury of time and the privilege of the financial freedom to go to college, it's about learning how to think about and solve problems. For others it's only about job preparedness and earnings capacity. And I think that this, this institutional accountability measure probably pushes us towards the latter because it has introduced some earnings measures for universities.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:34]: Would you mind sharing kind of the CliffsNotes version of what this is and how it's going to affect our day to day work?

Melanie Storey [00:22:41]: Yeah. So you know, you talk about sort of the critical thinking and you know, I'm a liberal art arts graduate, big fan, see the value but it doesn't, doesn't diminish the importance of. I also needed to get a job when I graduated. Like I don't always see those things in opposition. I do see it as a yes and but it does. I think it is reflected in OB3. And just again back to this value of higher education. It isn't all about earnings and getting a job, but it all has to be a little bit about.

Melanie Storey [00:23:07]: There are very few who have the privilege of just going to enjoy the experience and free think and I don't know what happens after that. Like at the end of the day, you know, there is a responsibility there but so OV3 introduces accountability as you mentioned, a new accountability framework that will hold institutions accountable for earnings of their graduates to be higher than those earnings of a student who only has a high school diploma. That's the clip Note the devil is always in the details. Someone who may only have a high school diploma may go into a high skill trade and have high significant income. As student affairs professionals, financial aid professionals know this too. Those first three, four years of earnings are not your strongest earnings directly out of college. Right. I think we have some concerns right around the details of the data.

Melanie Storey [00:23:55]: If we're going to be held accountable. And I, and I. Let me just be clear, my members in higher education, we should be held accountable for delivering on the opportunity that we are marketing. The question is how does one measure it? Where does one measure it in the arc of one's life? Very few metrics will be perfect and this is the one that we have now. And so I think what your question and lead up is kind of answering to though is, you know, will it change the, the dynamic of our institutions to be admitting and encouraging students to move into what are more our higher paying careers or you know, kind of early on whether or not that is their, you know, sort of where they want to head? And I think that's a, I think it's an open, it's an open question. I think it will. We're going to have to look at the first few years of this data and see what it kind of looks like. You know, right now we don't, we don't have very good proxies.

Melanie Storey [00:24:45]: So it's really hard to get a sense of that. There will be again going back to this negotiative rulemaking, a regulatory process around the accountability metrics later this year and early in 26. Those will be important conversations to help us define how this accountability will be measured and applied. But it is an important and dramatic shift and it's not new though. Just to be clear, there are already something called gainful employment and financial value transparency. VT for those of them know that has been in place under a regulatory structure for some time. And to be clear, it has been challenged and removed and restarted. I think we're on like our fourth round of it.

Melanie Storey [00:25:21]: The department has already gotten data, they've collected data and they have data in house that is eagerly awaiting to be reported out around some of this gainful employment and financial value transparency. The thing about OB3 is that now it's in statute, now it's statute is more powerful. It's rooted in statute versus a regulatory effort. And so, and it differs a little bit from gefbt. So our hope is that we can get to a single set of accountability metrics. We don't want to double up the burden on institutions and make it meaningful for policymakers to assess institutions. But maybe more Importantly for students and families to get a sense of the value they might be getting at a particular institution. But it is higher education bristles at the idea of earnings being our only outcome.

Melanie Storey [00:26:03]: And that's appropriate, but it is an important outcome. And so I think we need to work on a yes and as opposed to just a no.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:09]: Let's talk about graduate students. There was an elimination of Grad plus loans, which is going to have some deep impacts on anyone earning a master's, doctoral or professional degree. Some of the limits that are put in the Grad plus loan or the grad loans that are still available won't cover the costs of some of these educational experiences. Some people might be in the middle of their experience right now and these changes are going to come in a year. And I know that they have a year to figure out how to finish paying for that particular educational experience. Particularly worried about things like medical school. We see medical school price tags more than a mortgage in some places. And the only way to complete them for some students are through these types of loans.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:49]: So how are we going to get our graduate students to the finish line knowing that these are, these are coming.

Melanie Storey [00:26:55]: Yeah. So this was a big. This was. And fast and significant change, largely, as you said, focused on graduate students. On the elimination of Grad Plus. Let me take, let me take your question about those who are currently engaged in their programs right now. There are provisions in the law for grandfathering those who are currently enrolled into the Grad plus program and into the existing loan limits as long as they stay in the program and they don't switch programs or schools. So not ideal.

Melanie Storey [00:27:20]: But there is grandfathering. It isn't just, it's not quite the cliff effect next year. This is something that is also being discussed in the negotiated rulemaking about how long this grandfathering will last. Students may take longer to finish their programs. I believe the language in the law is something like, like three years, the end of their program or three years. And so if someone takes four years, are we really kicking them out? Right. I guess so. I think we're trying to understand three full time years.

Melanie Storey [00:27:46]: Right. Like there's lots of things we can debate around that. But the grandfathering provisions for those who are currently engaged I hope will provide a softer off brand for those folks. But for students who are just looking to embark on their graduate education, this is a much more daunting kind of reality because the truth is that Grad plus is, is going away. And let me, let me start with a little tough talk here around why I think this happened and why I think Congress acted pretty abruptly here is that there was a lot of frustration when we talk about return on investment, that there were at least a few marquee, particularly master's degree programs that were charging significant six figure tuitions that realistically were not going to have of payoff that one would expect from that. Now students make choices. Students make choices of their programs. They make choices.

Melanie Storey [00:28:36]: You know, they are, they, they have agency in these decisions. Right. So I don't, I don't, you know, want to dismiss that, but I think certain members of Congress and key members of the committee saw the combination of these high tuitions, limited return on investment and the combination again back to PSLF and this expectation of hundreds of thousands of dollars being, being forgiven. And they were like this was not the intention of these, this was not. And they saw it as being, they saw it as institutions, not all institutions, but some institutions being bad actors in terms of taking advantage of the programs. I say that just because I want, I think it's important, you know, we can hand wring and teach Nash like why would they do this? And I sometimes feel like we lose clarity that we're not always all perfect actors like and sometimes we have to, but we do have to operate as a community and sometimes some of members of our community don't always operate as we might wish. So I say that, you know, I do think that is at least part of what seeded where we are. But what do we do now? I can tell you that NASA and our institutions are working hard to figure out how we might fill the gap.

Melanie Storey [00:29:41]: Whether it is an institutional funds, state funded loan programs, private loan programs with Advantage Advanced, you know, kind of safety nets and benefits as we can, particularly to help lower income students access capital to pursue graduate degrees. Right. We don't want to close that much. Like we believe in need based aid and the opportunity to access higher education for all students who desire it, regardless of their income. This can extend into graduate programs as well. And I think, you know, that is what we are currently focusing on. What can we get in place quickly that is supportive and student focused in order to help students pursue post secondary education that's on the grad plus elimination. It's gotta be just a pure.

Melanie Storey [00:30:23]: What other vehicles can we find? What other capital vehicles can you support that are student friendly to do that? On the loan limit piece we're currently negotiating with the department, the negotiations are around what constitutes a professional degree which is eligible for higher loan limits versus a graduate degree. There's A lot of rain going around. And I think that's going to be an important conversation to help define what kind of capital is available. But I'll be honest, like, I think Congress is hoping that it puts downward pressure on the tuitions that are being charged on these programs. I don't know if that's a realistic hope in this world, but I do think they are hoping that institutions get creative in ways, in terms of how we finance and develop and design these programs to make them more financially accessible to students. And so I think, I think we have an opportunity and an obligation as institutions to try to think creatively around that as well.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:11]: Let's talk about Pell. Pell has a new program called Workforce Pell, which is something that I'm wholly unfamiliar with. So I'll just be very honest about that. My understanding is that I believe you have to. It's kind of like work study adjacent ish. For Pell eligible students. Is that incorrect?

Melanie Storey [00:31:28]: So Pell grants, generally you have to be enrolled in a program that is, you know, I think I gotta remember like 15 weeks, right? Or like, you know, it has a le associated with it, which really made it. It kind of was initially something that differed, made Pell different than some of the Department of Labor programs for shorter kind of certificate, very vocationally focused programs. The expansion of Pell Grant eligibility to short workforce programs plus Workforce Pell are, is making students who are enrolled in these kind of vocationally focused certificate, 6 to 8, 6 to 10 week programs eligible for Pell Grants. And to be clear, like a lot of our community colleges, a lot of our vocationally focused for profit institutions offer great vocationally focused programs that are very short in length, these are great for retraining, and then someone can go into the workforce with the certificate. They historically have not been eligible for Pell. So this is quite a bipartisan effort to expand eligibility to Pell Grant programs to Pell grant dollars for more of these programs. And so the tricky part is we want to make sure these are high quality programs, right? Like much else, when we are expending federal dollars, we want to be good stewards of those dollars. So part of the implementation of Workforce Pell is identifying programs and certifying programs as eligible.

Melanie Storey [00:32:46]: So institutions will have to go through a process to demonstrate the value of the program. It needs to have been in place for a number of years. There's, there's a few things in the law around that, but so, but it really just an expansion of eligibility of Pell to these more vocationally Shorter term programs. So again, a different pathway of opportunity for students to leverage Higher Education act funds towards career goals.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:11]: Thank you for clarifying that. So clearly I had completely misunderstood its original intention, but this is good stuff.

Melanie Storey [00:33:16]: I mean, you're not deep. There's no need for you to be deep in the weeds on that. It really is. It's a Pell Grant. It's just now Pell Grant for a different set of programs.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:24]: Is there anything else in OB3 that student affairs professionals could benefit from knowing that maybe we're not paying close attention to or maybe it's like a tiny technical detail or something that. That might have been. So I have my doctor's in public policy. And so I always think about like, what is the, the small thing that's one sentence long that actually completely changes the meaning of a thing? Because we all know those are in there.

Melanie Storey [00:33:46]: Yeah, boy, you're not kidding. I mean, you've covered a lot of it. But I'll tell you, like one technical detail we are watching pretty closely. And it is almost like a sentence. And this, I'll explain what it's called. Loan proration. So what this means is, is that your loan eligibility will be prorated by the number of credits that you are enrolled. So in order to be eligible for the full loan amount, you would be enrolled in 9 to 12 credits.

Melanie Storey [00:34:11]: Right. But as you drop down in credits, your loan eligibility will diminish in a prorated fashion. So that sounds, I mean, but that has not been the way the programs have operated. If you're eligible for a loan, you're eligible for a loan. So proration is kind of a like, wait, what? Because not many graduate students are. Particularly for graduate students who we know are already getting hit on grad plus and other things often are only enrolled in 6 credits, 8, 9 credits. So what will that mean for their loan eligibility? So that holistically is something we're watching. That's in the law.

Melanie Storey [00:34:42]: That's going to happen. But what we're really watching is how will they implement it? So if I'm a student and I'm enrolled in 12 credits and then life happens, because life. And I'm like, oh gosh, I'm going to drop that class or I'm going to drop two classes and take this other. So now Mulane rolls for seven credits, that's going to. Now we're going to have to ask you to hand back some of your loan funds. If we've already. So when, when does that proration happen? Student affairs and financial Aid Administrators hate to go back to students and say, oh, we gave you money, now we have to take it back. Like that's the worst case scenario.

Melanie Storey [00:35:13]: Right. That's terrible. Predictability and transparency and clarity are so clutch for planning. So communicating to students that like, you're eligible for this amount of borrowing based on your current course selections, your enrollment, and again, life happens. So it's not in any way, but just understand there's new consequences to making, having to make changes. And that is this like tiny little thing that I am. I just is going to catch a lot of students off guard next fall.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:43]: One of my foci in student affairs has been fundamental needs. Security. So food security, housing security.

Melanie Storey [00:35:48]: Yes.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:48]: And my mind immediately went to, well, that money's probably already spent on rent and food. And if we're, if we're required by the government to claw it back from a student, that's going to create a housing crisis. I can already kind of hear it coming. So that's a really important nugget.

Melanie Storey [00:36:04]: So communicating. And this can happen with your folks. With my folks, we will do, we will shout this from the rooftops. It'll be on every financial aid letter you get, every communication. But you know, students are busy, no shade on them. Right. Like these things can kind of come and go. But just understand this is a significant change that can really upend, as you said, you know, very fundamental needs and kind of stuff that we're spending a lot of time and negotiating.

Melanie Storey [00:36:31]: At what point is it locked in? Is it at certification disbursement? Right, because the loan, you know, you sort of, you know, there's a progression that happens with loans awarding, you know, and so we are trying to make sure that we minimize the impact of this on students as much as possible. But that is. Yeah, that's the sneaky. That's the sneaky1 in OB3 for us, I think.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:53]: Speaking of this particular area, our season's theme is on the value of Student affairs. And so I'm going to ask you our three themed questions. The first, when you think about the value of student affairs, what comes to mind first and why?

Melanie Storey [00:37:07]: I feel like student affairs humanizes higher education. Student affairs professionals are the human face and warmth of what can feel like a very opaque and intimidating industry at times, particularly for our most vulnerable populations. And so I am a first generation student, as I mentioned, my son is not. And it was still amazing to me the things that he didn't understand and didn't know despite I have a career in some of this work and So I just saw how much, much work and effort the professionals at his institution did to bring clarity and warmth and humanization to what can feel really overwhelming for students.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:46]: Can you share a specific story or moment when you saw the value of student affairs come to life? And maybe this is from the financial side of the house, given that's where you've been centered.

Melanie Storey [00:37:55]: Yeah. So I think in many ways, I think student affairs professionals are also like the navigators of higher education for students. Right. Like. Like when you don't know what an office hour is. Right. Like, is it office hour when you don't bother the faculty? Oh, no, no. Office hours are when you do bother the faculty, you know, and bother is not the right word there, of course, but.

Melanie Storey [00:38:16]: And so I have heard time and time again, time and again, you know, students who feel overwhelmed. Money is a very sensitive topic for families. For students, it feels very vulnerable. You talk about food and housing insecurity. These are. Are incredibly emotional spaces, but essential, essential to the journey of higher education that they, you know, that they have stable and that they see. And I. And so for me, I have seen and witnessed time and time again student affairs professionals connecting students with the financial aid professionals who can feel very much like no people sometimes because they are the ones, you know, they're the gatekeepers to dollars.

Melanie Storey [00:38:56]: And so they, I think, unnecessarily can have a reputation as not being as warm, but they are fully committed to trying to solve the financial financial issues. And I think student affairs and financial aid working together are an incredibly powerful duo. And I've seen countless examples of helping, saying like, your father lost their job, your mother has had a traumatic medical issue. We can get you more aid. Like, we can change things. Like. And it just. That isn't in the mindset of students.

Melanie Storey [00:39:25]: And so pairing that humanization over to the financial side, I think is incredible.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:29]: I always love to think of our financial aid partners as the people that help us try to get to. Yes.

Melanie Storey [00:39:33]: And creatively, that's where they want to be. That's where they want to be.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:38]: So especially if you're listening and you work in maybe student care, case management, or in any sort of advising role, if you haven't met your financial aid partners, they're a great resource to help us try to figure out how do we find aid without necessarily negatively impacting a student's future ability to borrow or what the impact of maybe like an emergency loan will have on that student, that type of thing. It's good stuff. And then our third question is what do you think Student affairs needs to do to be better understood and better seen in today's educational environment?

Melanie Storey [00:40:09]: I think we all need to be better at being strategic leaders. It's really hard and I feel this way for my members too. We're day to day dealing with individual students, with cases, with compliance, with, with. I mean, it's, the workload is extraordinary. But we are essential to the smooth functioning and success of students on our campuses. And so I think it is incredibly important that our student affairs leaders and our financial aid leadership be at the table with our presidents and chancellors solving the problems, the big problems, and bringing our voice to what we can bring to those problems. What solutions can we offer, what creative endeavors can we collaborate on? I feel like oftentimes the C suite is the chancellors, the business officers, maybe admissions and enrollment. But there's just incredibly important voices coming from student affairs and from financial aid that I want at the table.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:58]: Before we transition into our commercial break, I would love to hear from you on if you have any tips on, I suppose, demystifying the inner workings of the U.S. department of Education, because I feel like all of us in Student affairs have interacted with elements of what the department has put out at some point. Some of us have participated in negotiated rulemaking. Typically that's been around Title IX for most of us or other areas like that. So is there anything that you can say that will help humanize a bit of this thing that is the department?

Melanie Storey [00:41:26]: Yeah, you know, I mean, it's, this is a particularly tough time for that because generally, historically what I would have said is, is to really build relationships with the folks in your regional offices because those are the folks that have direct access into the Washington, D.C. based folks, but have a closer relationship with the institutions. Unfortunately, with the reduction in staffing at the Department of Education, a lot of those regional offices were gutted. So that is a little bit harder. If I have a tidbit, I don't have a really very good one right now. It is a pretty tough time. It is really about person and relationships. But the tidbit I might have is this.

Melanie Storey [00:42:00]: If you are calling the call centers, if you're trying to get an answer to a question and lagging, you're not getting it or it doesn't feel right. Those call centers are generally staffed by contract contractors. These are hard working, well meaning folks, but they're also racing to catch up with what is happening at the department. The real, the real answers are often found in escalations and escalations mean, it gets to someone who is a U.S. department of Education employee who's going to have to look at it and go into the systems or do whatever they need to do. Understand it. And so while it takes more effort and more lift, it is a little bit exhausting. On behalf of your folks and mine, if it doesn't feel right and you're not getting an answer, ask for escalation.

Melanie Storey [00:42:39]: Ask for the name of someone with an ed.gov email. That's, that's the way to get an answer and be persistent. And the nuclear option, if it's preventing students from enrolling, if students can't get access to funds, if it, if it is significantly impacting their journey to the point where they're going to have to drop out, the nuclear option is to call your member of Congress or have the student reach out to the member of Congress. And I don't say that with any joy because that is really hard on my former colleagues at the department to get these inquiries. But sometimes when a student's future is at risk, it's the only option. And I ask that you do it judiciously and only when a student's future is truly at risk. But it is a way to get what you need.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:19]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world. Thanks, Jill.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:43:26]: So excited to be back in the NASPA world. And there's a ton of things happening in NASPA. NASPA recently signed a letter with 21 higher education associations to congressional leaders urging Congress to restore FY 2025 funding for minority serving institutions, MSIs that was terminated by the Department of Education and to maintain and expand support for HBCUs, TCUs, and MSIs in 2026. Citing the role these institutions play in serving students with the greatest financial need. This letter, as well as many of the other most pressing policy and advocacy updates states are housed on the policy and advocacy website. On the NASPA website. If you have not had an opportunity to be able to explore the policy and advocacy website, I highly encourage you to do so. With everything that is happening today and all the changes that are happening seemingly daily, it's important to stay on top of what is happening not only at the federal level, but in your state.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:44:29]: And NASPA is doing everything that they can to be able to track things that are happening both at the federal and at the state level that are impacting our institutions. I highly encourage you to spend some time there. Come back on a regular basis and see what the updates are, and you'll probably see some changes along the way as well in regards to new things that are coming and things that you may want to explore as well. On the NASPA website, some of you may in the past have taken a look at and identified that we have a great bookstore with books that have been written for NASPA itself, and one of those books is Careers in Student Affairs, a holistic guide to professional development in Higher education. This book was written a while back, back in 2017, but the information that is in it is as pertinent today as it was when it was written, and it provides a comprehensive look at being a higher education administrator, integrating perspectives from both research and practical applications. It's a reader friendly book addressing contemporary issues in higher education that are not typically covered in a graduate curriculum, but that employers expect student affairs professionals to be prepared for from their first position and beyond. The book is written for both new professionals and those transitioning to further levels of leadership, so it provides a cross section of topics that apply to various levels of experience. The book is filled with information and advice to assist you in your developing plans for career longevity and success.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:46:06]: Each chapter includes a question for reflection to help readers develop a career plan. It's organized into two parts. The first part focuses on professional performance and explores issues such as trends and contemporary challenges in higher education, developing professionalism and support networks and ways to navigate important issues such as organizational cultures, politics, conflicts and ethics and the second part looks at professional development with chapters that delve into defining personal and professional success, advancing a career in student affairs, becoming an effective supervisor, transitioning to faculty roles, and giving back to the profession. This is an amazing book and if you haven't had an opportunity to read it it I highly encourage you to take some time to explore it and see all of the amazing things that Peggy Holweis and Kelly Peck Parrott put together as they were putting this book out into the world. And I think you will find that it is an amazing book that can follow you throughout your career. You can find out more by going onto the NASPA website, going under Research and Publications to the bookstore. The early registration for both the 2026 NASPA Institute for New AVPs as well as the 2026 NASPA AVP Symposium are coming up on December 7, 2025. Both of these institutes are amazing learning opportunities for those that are either new to being an AVP or those that are currently AVPs and want to be able to learn and grow from others that are in similar roles as mentioned, the NASPA Institute for New AVPS is a foundational three day learning and networking experience designed to support and develop AVPs in their unique and challenging roles on campus.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:48:00]: It's appropriate for AVPs and other senior level number twos who report to the highest ranking Student affairs officer who have been serving in their first AVP or number two position for no longer than two years. The 2026 NASPA AVP Symposium is a unique and innovative three day program designed to support and develop AVPs and other number twos in their unique campus leadership roles. Leveraging the vast experience and knowledge of sitting AVPs, the symposium will provide high level content through a variety of participants engagement oriented session types. The professional development offering is limited to AVPs and other number twos who report to the highest ranking Student affairs officer on campus and have substantial responsibility for divisional functions. Additionally, VPSAs and the equivalent who are presenting during the symposium may also register at the discounted rate and attend the Institute for New AVPS is happening January 22nd to 24th in Denver, Colorado and the symposium is happening January 24th to 26 in Denver, Colorado. This offers opportunities for an individual to attend both or only attend one of the three day sessions every week. We're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association, so we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways ways. Because the association is as strong as its members and for all of us we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the Association.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:49:45]: And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself where do you fit, where do you want to give back each week. We're hoping that that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now to offer other things things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the Association. Because through doing that all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in naspa.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:50:39]: Chris, thank you. As Always for another informative week of NASPA World. We always love learning what's going on in and around naspa. And Melannie, we've reached our lightning round all about you. We have seven questions for you in about 90 seconds.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:50:54]: Ready to go?

Melanie Storey [00:50:55]: Okay, let's go.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:50:56]: All right, question one. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

Melanie Storey [00:51:01]: Oh, that's Easy, Girl on Fire. I did that this summer.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:51:03]: Number two, when you were five years old, what did you want to be when you grew up?

Melanie Storey [00:51:07]: Ooh, when I was 5 years old? Probably like a librarian. I was a real, like, book nerd when I was little.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:51:13]: Number three, who's your most influential professional mentor?

Melanie Storey [00:51:16]: Ooh, my most, my most influential professional mentor is probably Becky Timmons, who was a great friend and mentor when I worked serving college and university president.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:51:27]: Number four, your essential higher education read.

Melanie Storey [00:51:30]: Inside Higher Ed, the Cron, and now occasionally, Politico every day.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:51:34]: Number five, the best TV show you've.

Melanie Storey [00:51:36]: Been binging lately, Ted Lasso. I just watched it a second time through.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:51:39]: They're filming right near where I live at the moment.

Melanie Storey [00:51:41]: I love that, you know, Ted Lasso is fundamentally optimistic in the face of lots of adversity, and I, I, I resonate with that.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:51:48]: Number six, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

Melanie Storey [00:51:52]: Smartless, I find funny and engaging. Kind of a mindless entertainment for me. And it's smart.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:51:58]: And finally, number seven, any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional?

Melanie Storey [00:52:02]: Well, I will say I would like to. I'll always give a shout out to my NASA, to my NASA team. As I said, I'm just five months in to this incredible opportunity. And whenever you come into a new organization, especially after they had a long serving, beloved leader, change is hard and they have been amazing. So Beth Maglione and all the other folks at NASA have really been, have fast become great colleagues, but also friends, and I appreciate that.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:52:28]: I have deep respect for all the work that you all are doing, and I'm very grateful that you were willing to share your subject matter and expertise with the NASPA community. If NASPA members would like to join you or learn more about nasfa, how can they find you and your team?

Melanie Storey [00:52:42]: Yeah, so our website, of course, is NASFA. N a s n faa.org if they want to reach me directly, you're welcome to email me. I'm happy to receive emails. And that is story with an E. So S T O R e m for melanie.org and so welcome all feedback and input.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:53:02]: Melanie, thank you so very much for sharing your voice with us today.

Melanie Storey [00:53:05]: Thanks Jill. I appreciate it. Have fun.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:53:11]: This has been an episode of Essay Voices from the Field brought to you by naspa. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to be so grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email [email protected] or find me on LinkedIn by searching for Dr. Jill L. Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions always. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a five star review on as Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you're listening now.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:53:41]: It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton. That's me, produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan, Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

Assessment isn't just numbers—it's a growth mindset. In the latest episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field, Knowledge Community co-chairs Dr. Dana Weintraub (Rutgers University - New Brunswick) and Dr. Scott Radimer (William & Mary) share their perspectives with Dr. Jill Creighton on the vital importance of assessment, evaluation, and research in higher education, sparking conversations that will resonate with both experienced professionals and those newer to the field.

A key theme emerges early: assessment is not an "add-on" or a separate chore—it's a tool that empowers student affairs professionals to make evidence-based decisions, improve the student experience, and honor the promise institutions make to help their students thrive and succeed. As Dr. Radimer puts it, "Assessment work is really just an extension of that promise…we're failing to keep our promises if we're not doing that." Both leaders emphasize that assessment helps colleges move from "just vibes" to actionable data, allowing for advocacy, program improvements, and strategic change.

Dr. Weintraub offers practical advice for making assessment less intimidating, urging colleagues to see how data-driven decision-making fits into everyday life: checking the weather app before dressing for work, or setting personal fitness goals, both reflect continuous assessment cycles. She insists, "It's about growth mindset. It's equipping us with the information so we know how it helps us make decisions so much easier."

For those wary of statistics, Dr. Radimer reassures listeners: effective assessment relies on relationships, collaboration, and critical inquiry—not just crunching numbers. "Usually in student affairs, it's not that we're doing bad things…it's that we have so many things on our plate that sometimes the good gets in the way of the great." His advice: intentional planning and building assessment into the program design from the start makes it less stressful and more impactful.

The episode also demystifies involvement in NASPA's Assessment, Evaluation, and Research Knowledge Community (AERKC). Both co-chairs are passionate about the value of networking, professional development, and "work wellness" that the KC offers, encouraging anyone with even a passing interest in assessment to "just show up" and experience the supportive community firsthand.

Whether you're a seasoned assessment lead or a curious student affairs practitioner, there's something for everyone in this episode. Tune in to hear practical wisdom, relatable analogies, and uplifting encouragement from two experts committed to making data work for students—and their advocates.

Ready to turn assessment anxiety into actionable insight? Listen to the full episode and discover how you can be part of a thriving, supportive community committed to student success. TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:02]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts brought to you by naspa. We curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you happen to be. This is season 13 on the value of student affairs. I'm Dr. Jill Creighton. She her hers your Essay Voices from the Field host Today on Essay Voices, we are continuing our journey with getting to know our Knowledge Community leaders with the AERC or the Assessment, Evaluation and Research knowledge community. Our two guests are co chairs Dana Weintraub, PhD and Scott Rademer, PhD. Dr.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:42]: Weintraub is the Assistant Vice Chancellor for Strategy, Assessment and Planning in Student affairs at Rutgers University New Brunswick and an Associate member of the Faculty at the Graduate School of Education. Since joining Rutgers in 2016, she's led division wide efforts in strategic planning, assessment, communication and development advancing student success through data informed decision making. Dana serves as the Primary Liaison to the Office of Institutional Research and Decision Support and collaborates closely with Senior leadership to shape and implement strategic priorities. She chairs the Student Affairs Assessment Learning Committee and leads training initiatives Taking that sentence over Chris, she chairs the Student Affairs Assessment Learning Committee and leads training initiatives on research and data strategy. Her scholarship, which explores topics like student leadership, gender equity in STEM and civic engagement, has been featured in academic journals and global conferences conferences. Outside of work, Dana is a proud mom of two, a marathon runner, dancer and passionate board game enthusiast. Always ready for a strategic challenge whether at the office or around the game table. She holds a Ph.D.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:41]: in higher education and organizational change from UCLA, a master's from Indiana University in Bloomington, and a BA from Ithaca College. Dr. Radimer is the Assistant Dean for Assessment, Accreditation and Accountability for the School of Education at William Mary. Prior to working at William Mary, Scott was the Director of Assessment and Planning at the University of Houston for the Division of Student Affairs. He has over 9 years professional experience in assessment, 22 years working in higher education, and serves as the co Chair for NASPA's Assessment, Evaluation and Research Knowledge Community. He's published and given presentations on topics such as One More Time on that. He has published and given presentations on topics such as assessment, men and masculinities and urban serving institutions. Scott earned his Ph.D.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:22]: in higher education from Boston College and his Master of Science in Higher Education from Florida State University and his Bachelor of Arts degree in Political Science from the University of Vermont. Welcome to SA Voices. Dana hello hello and hello Scott.

Scott Radimer [00:02:37]: Hello.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:37]: We are thrilled to have you on the episode today to talk about the NASPA Assessment Knowledge Community, aerc. And I'll let you all define that a little bit more as we get into the conversation. A lot to talk about in the assessment world right now, but as we jump into our topic, we still love to get to know you first. So, Dana, let's start with you. How did you get to your current seat at Rutgers?

Dana Weintraub [00:02:58]: Thank you. Really wonderful to be here. Dr. Creighton, thank you for having Scott and I on, on the podcast. So I am actually starting my 10th year at Rutgers New Brunswick, which is, it's been amazing to have just completed nine full years. So I actually, I grew up in South Jersey and the funny thing which my parents actually like to tease me about is when it came to me to apply to colleges, I really wanted nothing, to be in my home state. I wanted to travel as far as possible, but that flipped. Prior to Rutgers, I spent 13 years working and going to school at UCLA.

Dana Weintraub [00:03:36]: It was an amazing experience, very fulfilling experiences. And when I was graduating from the PhD program at UCLA and it was time to job search, job opportunity came up at Rutgers New Brunswick and it was, it was just, it was the perfect job on paper. It was an opportunity to create a student affairs assessment unit. And so it was going to provide me the opportunity to apply everything I was learning in my doctoral program and actually really returned to what I love most, and that's student affairs, but doing it through a research and an assessment lens. So that's how I got to Rutgers New Brunswick. And over the past nine years I've been very fortunate to gain new experiences and opportunities. And I just, I really love being at a large public research university, really love and appreciate my student affairs colleagues and campus partners and how much Rutgers really does center and prioritize and value the need for evidence in making decisions and using evidence based research to improve the student experience.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:41]: I always love it when someone is able to find a role that fits both of their passions or multiple passions and comes together to be something that you can enjoy doing every day. I'm glad you were able to find that.

Dana Weintraub [00:04:51]: Thank you.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:52]: And Scott, how about you? How did you get to your current seat at William and Mary?

Scott Radimer [00:04:55]: Yeah, so I'm originally from Vermont, grew up in Vermont and attended the University of Vermont for undergrad. I was one of those stereotypical student affairs college students in that I was involved in everything as an undergrad. And so I kept on interacting with all the master's students in the HISA program at the University of Vermont and I thought they were pretty cool people and that's how I got exposed to student affairs as a career. When I was a senior in college, I. I thought I wanted to go to law school and be a lawyer. And then I quickly realized I didn't want to do that. So it took me a little bit of time to figure out what I wanted to do after college. And I ultimately decided that I was going to go into student affairs because if I didn't like it, I'd be working at a university, I could get a different degree and I could move.

Scott Radimer [00:05:50]: So that seemed less scary than my other kind of big idea was I might get a PhD in political science, which was my undergraduate degree. And that at the time seemed too intimidating to me. So I went into student affairs. I ended up Florida State University for my master's degree, which, coming from Vermont, I felt like that was my study abroad experience that I never had. It was a great experience, definitely opened my eyes to a lot of things that I had assumed everybody thought or did and was not the case. Worked in assistantship, in academic advising, and then moved back up north. Got my first job working in residential life at Vassar College. Worked there for three years, just in time for the 2008 recession to send me job searching again.

Scott Radimer [00:06:36]: Ended up at Bentley University working in res life for three years. Decided that I had spent enough time working in residential life and being on call all the time. And so I ended up making the transition to being a full time graduate student again as a PhD student at Boston College in their Higher Edition program. Found that I liked research a whole lot more than I had anticipated when I went in. And so when I graduated, I ended up getting a job doing student affairs assessment, which felt like a kind of perfect marriage of my prior experience and skills that I developed at bc. And so I became the Director of Research, Assessment and Planning at the University of Memphis. Memphis, Tennessee, was there for three years until they got rid of their division of Student Affairs. And so I ended up doing a similar position at the University of Houston, which is where I was for six years until just very recently.

Scott Radimer [00:07:43]: And then I actually just had my first job transitioning out of student affairs, Although I'm still involved with NASPA and the aerkc William and Mary with the School of Education, doing assessment and accreditation work. So it's kind of an extension continuation of my work in assessment.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:08:00]: So assessment in student affairs, I think has been historically a bit of a hill to climb for many of us where we find folks like yourselves who are very passionate about the way that we assess and Evaluate our work and we're able to tell stories through the data. But then others who are like, oh my gosh, assessment. I can't believe I'm still. My brain can't get around it. And I think we have that binary to a degree in the profession. So I'm wondering if you can tell us what you love about the assessment, evaluation and research process for our profession.

Scott Radimer [00:08:30]: Yeah. So my number one Cliftons strength is strategic. Right. I'm always looking at everything as what's the best way to get from A to B for that? How can we achieve the outcome? So I've always been very focused on how can we improve things, what makes the most sense, what's the most efficient, what has the best return. I feel like colleges make promises to students that if you enroll here, we are going to help you succeed and we are going to get you to your degree. And so I think that assessment work is really just an extension of that promise and that we're failing to keep our promises if we're not doing that. So we're saying we're going to do our best to help you succeed. As long as you, the student, do your part, that you do your work, that you study, and that you're a good citizen of the community, then we are going to help you succeed.

Scott Radimer [00:09:27]: And so the thing that really motivates me about assessment work and why I think it's so important and why people should view it as integral to their job, not something else that gets in the way of them doing their job is that it helps you be more efficient. It helps, you know, if what you're doing is working. It helps you tell other people why they should be involved with your programs or services, why they should support them, why they should donate money to them, is you need to have more than just vibes, right? It's like, here's some evidence. Don't just take my word for it. Here's the feedback from the students, here's their grades, here's these outcomes for that. So I view it as a real extension of the promise that we, we make, that we're keeping our word, that we're going to do our part if they do their part.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:14]: I feel like you just encapsulated something really important for student affairs, Scott, which is like, our whole careers, all of us have been like, student affairs is more than just vibes. But we've been saying it differently in a lot of different ways. So thank you for that nugget.

Dana Weintraub [00:10:26]: So I appreciate Scott's response because I very much See that, make a commitment to students when they offer students admission to the university. And I see that colleges and universities, it's our responsibility to provide all of the support that students need to thrive and graduate, ideally within four to six years. And assessment allows us to be able to provide. It provides us with the information that we need to be able to know what supports are needed to ensure that students are going to thrive and graduate. And what I appreciate so much about assessment is it's about growth mindset. It's also about just providing. It's equipping us with the information so we know how it helps us make decisions so much easier. And some of the things that I really like to, to kind of like help my colleagues see that they're actually doing assessment all the time.

Dana Weintraub [00:11:26]: They just don't call it that. So my easy ways that I, you know, start open up a presentation is I'll ask my colleagues, how did you determine what you're wearing to work today? You know, people don't just open up their closet and say, oh, I'm going to wear this. You check a weather app to make sure that your clothing is weather appropriate. You also check your calendar to see what do I have today, who am I meeting with? How should I dress to present myself in accordance with those meetings? Well, that's assessment, your weather app, your calendar. It's providing you with data and information to help you make the decision, what am I going to wear? And so, and that's really, and I think too often we get so concerned about if we collect data, what happens if it's negative, what happens if we're told something that we don't want to hear? Well, isn't it better to hear it? Isn't it better to find out that the program that you're planning may not have resonated with students the way that you hoped? Isn't it better to have that information so that you can make tweaks and make improvements? So I just really love assessment. I think it's really, it's about growth mindset, it's about how do we improve. And it's providing us with the information that we need to really best engage, best align, best support and best do what we are so passionate about doing in our work. One more final thing is I think too often in student affairs, I grew up in student affairs, where it was a matter of student affairs is co curricular, extracurricular.

Dana Weintraub [00:12:54]: No, no more of that. We are an integral part of the student experience. And I like to say that students will not even show up to the classroom unless they receive the nourishment they need in the dining halls, the conversations and the relationships that form in the dining halls and the residence halls, unless they have really proper care, they're not even showing up to the classroom, let alone thriving. And so student affairs really needs to believe in the value and the purpose that we bring to the academic experience. Experience and we are essential to student learning.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:27]: Dana, I feel like you're really good at making assessment more approachable or less terrifying for people who are a little bit scared of it. Can you give some pro tips or advice to people that are listening, that are going, oh my gosh, assessment makes my heart sad versus people who are like, assessment brings joy to my life because I think we're all out there. But I'm just trying to reflect on all of my experiences across my career in student affairs and knowing that for a good chunk of it, I was in the camp of going, oh, this is a bit scary.

Dana Weintraub [00:13:54]: Yeah, absolutely. I think what I like to do is I like to try to make assessment really relatable. And so I know for me, I happen to be someone who I really love setting goals related to fitness. So as an adult, I came into marathon running. And when I run a marathon, I'm following a 16 week plan. And for me it's very relatable to relate the assessment cycle to that 16 week plan. You set a goal, it's a nice, clear, specific goal. You pose a question on what information do you need to be able to achieve that goal and that outcome? What data do I need and how do I get that data? Is it data that is already available, like through student admissions applications or through event check ins? So is it data that I don't even have to collect, it's already it exists.

Dana Weintraub [00:14:46]: Or is it data that I have to collect in some way and gather? What are the relationships with people that I need to be able to help gather the information that I need to answer my assessment question? What are the methods that best align with answering that question and best helping me to interpret the data that I either had that exists or that I collected? And then what do I do with the information that I gathered? What do I do with the interpretations and how do I develop recommendations that are actionable? And then the beauty of assessment is the cycle continues. And so what I say, because I think too often people get stuck in two aspects of assessment. One, getting stuck in the limitations, where all assessment processes have limitations. And so the beauty of it, of assessment being continuous, is you can Think of it as I can improve on these limitations the next go around. The other piece that I often hear is there's this myth that you have to be this mathematician. But really, actually the hard part about assessment is not the analysis. And anyway, besides the fact, quantitative assessment or quantitative research, it's about telling stories from the numbers. So assessment, really, essentially, it's converting numbers into stories and how to make meaning with words if you're doing qualitative.

Dana Weintraub [00:16:07]: But what I say is the core of assessment. It's about relationship. The reality is we have a lot of programs that help us analyze both quantitative, qualitative and mixed methods, research and data. But what we really need to do is it's the relationships that help us identify what aspects of student learning are we interested in measuring? How do we engage with students to really empathize, hear, narrate, form, trust with our students and their experiences? How do we develop relationships with colleagues who have information and data that we really could use to be able to help improve the student experience and our environments? So really, the key is it's about relationships. And so what I hope is that it's, you know, helping to make things more accessible, whether relating it to a passion of my colleague or relating it to, like, something we do on a daily basis that we all know that we're really good at something else. I do actually, in the class I teach is I have them thinking about sorting laundry and relating qualitative coding to laundry, where it's when you think about, you have your laundry basket and what's your method of folding and sorting your clothes? And that's very similar to how I approach qualitative coding. So I do try to make assessment very accessible and very practical ways so that it becomes. It's fun and interesting.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:34]: I'll give a shout out to my qualitative methods professor, Dr. Mark Smith. He brought to class on one of our first days of coding exercises, like a giant bag of crafting beads and just dumped them on everybody's table and said sort, which was a wonderful way of kind of thinking about coding. And everyone had a different method that kind of showed up. So thank you, Dr. Smith. He's now living his best life as a dean in the South. So, Scott, same question for you.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:58]: What are you doing at your institution to make assessment more accessible and less scary for people who maybe don't interact with it as much or in the. In the same headspace that you do?

Scott Radimer [00:18:07]: Yeah. So I think the most important part is that I think we need to view our work as More of a science and less of an art, especially in student affairs. I think there can be this tendency to view this as it's a skill that you have or you don't have, that some people are just good at it and other people are not, as opposed to something that you can improve on, that there are different ways to handle it. And I think that's one of the troubles that we get into for people who have been in the field for a really long time is that that we're used to doing things a certain way. It's worked, it's been really successful. And so we keep doing it for 20 or 30 years. And some of those things stay the same, and they're great traditions, and it really makes the college experience. But for other things, they're very different.

Scott Radimer [00:19:01]: If I think back to what the world looked like when I was in college, it's a very different place than it is today. And the students are very different, and the world is very different. And so the kinds of programming that made sense in that world doesn't necessarily make sense or is interesting for this world. And so we always just need to check, like, is this what people need? Is this what is useful to our students, but not feeling like it's hopeless or that you just have to figure it out, that there are ways that we can determine what is working and what's not working and how it can help. So to Dana's point, I like to talk to people that are doing assessment to remind them that they are always doing assessments that they're judging. Like, how is this conversation going? Is this going well? Is this not going well? Is this event going well for students? Or is this application process working? Right. We're always making judgments about things. So assessment is just a way of checking our biases, the things that we don't realize that we're doing.

Scott Radimer [00:20:07]: Because our informal assessments make up a statistic. I feel like they're probably right 80%, 90% of the time, maybe even 95% of the time. But there is this percentage of the time where we're wrong that it's our biases, it's our assumptions about things. And so, you know, some people are really energized by interpersonal conversations. And so you're trying to have this big event and reach a lot of students. And maybe a lot of students didn't show up, up, or they came, but they didn't have a very good experience. But you had a really moving, engaging conversation with a student in person. So you're feeling really energized about this.

Scott Radimer [00:20:47]: And you think this was really great because this is what gives me energy. And I got energy from this event. And so that must be the case for everybody else who attended it. But it's not. Or you're really into this tradition because this event was your alma mater and you did this and now they're doing this. But that doesn't necessarily mean that people are having that same experience coming away from this. And so you want to be intentional about how you're collecting information and checking the results to confirm like, was my impression correct? And most of the time you're going to find it's correct. And it may just be a degree of magnitude that like, oh, this was good, but this event was, this other event was great.

Scott Radimer [00:21:28]: That it had a much bigger impact that, you know, this, this very intensive, time consuming process that required a lot of people hours to do, moved retention rate 1% for students. But this other thing that we did that was maybe more scalable, increased it by 5 or 10%. And so usually find in student affairs and the work that we do, it's not that we are doing bad things, it's this we have so many things on our plate that we don't want to let go. That kind of the good things get in the way of the opportunities to do great things or really impactful things. So I try and talk to people about systems. How do we know what we, we think is going on? How do we know that? Do we have data to support that? A lot of work that can feel overwhelming sometimes is just that there's so much that we have to do that takes up so much time that people don't feel like they have the energy for things and that it really becomes a lot less overwhelming, I think when you just plan on the front end. And so a lot of the work that I do is asking people to record things on the front end or tell me what you're going to do or what you just did. And maybe in the moment that doesn't feel super awesome because you've got 11 other things on your to do list today.

Scott Radimer [00:22:43]: But when you do it on the front end, when you're thinking about what your goals are, like Dana's example, if you're looking at what you're going to wear for work that day, if you're looking at your calendar, you're going to be in a lot better position than if you're just like, okay, what's clean? And here we go for that, that that might not work out so well. For you. So if you can take the time to think in advance about what you want to do, a lot of it just gets built right in that you made sure to collect the data, you took the card swipes for the students coming in, or you had a QR code for the survey, or you made a point to get quotes from students or take pictures or whatever it was that you're going to do. That when you plan it on the front end, it becomes a lot less time consuming, is a lot easier, a lot less overwhelming. 99% of the time, you're not going to be doing statistical analysis or need to do any math involved with that. So those are the ways that I like to talk about assessment work and hopefully make it less overwhelming for people.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:46]: Let's get into the KC a bit. You two ran and were elected as co chairs. So I'd love to know how you connected in the first place, given that you're, you know, several hundred miles apart.

Scott Radimer [00:23:55]: So we were both joined, I think around the same time, a couple years before we joined. And so when the elections were coming up and they were looking for new co chairs, we'd had former co chairs reach out and ask, hey, would you be interested in doing this? So I had known Dana before, but we hadn't worked together super closely, more just in kind of monthly meetings for that. And so as we were discussing this opportunity is when we really connected and got to know each other much better and find a lot of common ground and common perspective and experiences on things, which has been one of the really most rewarding parts of the process is getting to work closely with Dana and get to know her better and feel like we can contribute back to the field in the same way.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:24:43]: Dana, anything you want to add on that?

Dana Weintraub [00:24:45]: I was just going to say, I mean, I think that, you know, one of the really amazing opportunities about being involved in a KC is the opportunity to develop relationships and friendships with colleagues across the world, I guess you could say, because it is an international organization. And I think what I find most rewarding is always having a colleague, and especially now, and working so closely with Scott. I mean, I think we're sort of messaging each other almost on a daily basis. And I appreciate, like our weekly meetings. It's like we meet for an hour and it's like half past, we're like, oh, wait, we should probably talk about KC stuff. But it's like that that first half hour is an opportunity for either me or Scott to get advice on something, for us to just kind of share experiences. And it's just really, especially doing assessment work, which is complicated and it's just really, really like. I think it just allows us to like, grow even more and grow our passion for the work that we do when we have a colleague that works at a different university, even in a different area of assessment.

Dana Weintraub [00:25:51]: And we're really able to, to share experiences, rel the challenges and the opportunities, and provide each other with support and most of all, a really good laugh.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:01]: I think that's such an important story to tell because I think a lot of times, especially newer professionals can look at Casey leadership and wonder, how do I get there? We continually hear, I joined because I was interested in the subject matter. I met other people and it's such a natural evolution to maybe not being as collegially close to someone at the beginning and then at the end going, wow, I rely on this person or I see this person so often. And I think I say the same thing about Dr. Chris Lewis, who's the other producer and our audio engineer for the podcast is, you know, we didn't really know each other when we started working on the pod, but now we're very, very close colleagues. So it's such a great way of keeping connection in the field without necessarily being on the same campus.

Scott Radimer [00:26:40]: Yeah, I was just gonna say I've been involved with NASPA since 2004. Right. I've been involved for a long time. If I had things to do over again, I would have gotten more involved with the organization much earlier. I think that the best thing was colleague who's also in the KC has been like, scott, you need to show up. Like, you need to join these meetings. And so I did. And really the most important thing is just show up, volunteer if something that you're interested in that you care about, go to the meetings, show up, ask how you can get involved.

Scott Radimer [00:27:12]: Because we're looking for volunteers right now, right there. There continues to be opportunities and a lot of it is just like, show up, share your opinions, listen, and the rest of it kind of of happens naturally. I know that student affairs is a very extrovert, focused field. I am not an extrovert. I enjoy my downtime and my reflection time, but it's not difficult or overwhelming. Even if you're not one of the people who think strangers are best friends you haven't met yet. It is not this overwhelming kind of barrier. It's really just like, find something you're interested in and show up.

Scott Radimer [00:27:50]: And a lot of the work gets done just by doing that for an.

Dana Weintraub [00:27:53]: Interesting connection that I'm making right now. So one of the myths, myths of assessment is, and Scott mentioned it earlier, it's considered an add on, something extra. I have to do that I don't have time to do when really what we're trying to convey is assessment is not an add on. It is going to help you do the work that you're doing in a more meaningful value added way. And when it comes to involvement in the knowledge communities, I think too often people say I don't have time, which is true. And I felt that way too. I don't know how I'm going to have the time to do this. But what I would encourage folks to think about is getting involved in NASPA and professional organizations and especially in the knowledge communities.

Dana Weintraub [00:28:40]: Consider it like work wellness because you fit it into your schedule. But it is just such a refreshing opportunity to develop meaningful relationships with colleagues. And so I acknowledge it is intimidating. Know how do you have the time doing assessment? It feels like extra work, but when you get into the routine, you realize how much value comes from it. And the involvement, it's just, I mean the hours that I spend meeting with Scott with the leadership team, they fly by. There's just so much energy that comes out of the room and the conversation. So I really encourage folks to really kind of consider if you're treating yourself to work wellness by getting involved, what's.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:24]: Important to the KC right now? What are the focuses and the hot topics?

Scott Radimer [00:29:27]: Yeah, so I'll say the big focus right now is we have a new pre conference that the KC is hosting that was just accepted that is called Assessment 301 Director of Assessment Institute. And so overall doing assessment work kind of as like a sub field in student affairs is still a relatively young career track. And so there's still a lot of like kind of figuring out your way. There's not, it's not like the res life to Dean of Students kind of track that's more well established and understood. That in many ways Dana and I are still kind of trailblazers in this part of the field, which is weird to think about yourself that way. But one of the things we notice is that there's not a lot of opportunities to kind of think about professional development tracks and kind of how you handle these positions. Because at a lot of institutions you're the first person to do this or the second person to do this and you might be the only person or you have some graduate assistant support. And so we thought we should make the professional development opportunity that we're missing for that.

Scott Radimer [00:30:40]: And so we've created this pre conference ahead of the national conference in March that we hope people will be interested in and sign up for to be able to help people in these more division wide positions think about, you know, what are the things you really need to do to excel in the current job but also what are the things that you want to think about as you're thinking about next? Because for many people this might not be the last job that they, they want to hold that they might want to do other things as well and be thinking about that. And so I think for the KC it's a lot of what is the needed professional development opportunities both for everybody in the field. Right. Like what are. And we also offer an assessment 101 that's a very long standing assessment and successful pre conference for these kind of like what does anybody need to know? And you don't have to have any background in assessment to come and get value out of these kind of introductory things. But then also how do we think about this smaller, more dedicated part of the profession that maybe hasn't been attended to as much before. And so how do we help people in these more senior responsibilities think about their continued development and career growth and also just building community for people. That's something that Dana and I think have gotten a lot out of being involved in the KC and in our leadership positions.

Scott Radimer [00:32:02]: But we want that experience and opportunity for other people as well. So what are the ways in which we can help bring people together, being able to find community and maybe even commiserate at times for some of the challenges that they're going through and help them be more successful as they go forward.

Dana Weintraub [00:32:21]: Assessment, evaluation, research. Casey, we're really excited. We're still celebrating our 20th anniversary along with all knowledge communities. And so it's been really, really wonderful over the, over the year to look back on our past, the present and really chart our way for the future. We are so fortunate that on our leadership team we're still very connected with some of the, the earlier chairs of the Casey and so we really have a very, very strong, committed leadership yesterday. So I guess by the time this airs we could say in, in September we did an open meeting where we invited those interested in assessment who are part of the KC to attend one of our leadership team meetings and gather information about the role of assessment that it plays in their day to day work. What are some resources and supports and professional development services. So it gives Scott and I and our colleagues on the leadership team an opportunity to think about, you know, what are our goals and what are the resources that we want to provide our membership.

Dana Weintraub [00:33:26]: We have a thriving knowledge community, some really great opportunities, whether it be a writing group, so folks coming together on a continuous basis to pursue a writing project, gather, gain some feedback from peers, write in community. We do ongoing discussions on really important trends and topics related to assessment. So for example, our most recent conversation was on data lakes that brought together colleagues in assessment in information technology institutional research to talk about ways to bring existing data across campus together and think about the various different questions and ways that the data can better tell a story and define our work and how do we go about developing the relationships that we need with data custodians to be able to bring the data together. So lots of exciting, exciting opportunities within the Casey and we really pride ourselves in really providing our membership with an opportunity to find community and find colleagues that share their passion in assessment and to help share resources and strengthen the work that we do.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:36]: Can you talk a little bit about the mix of people in the KC in terms of people that are in roles like yourselves that are leading assessment, assessment for student affairs or student affairs adjacent roles versus people who might have full time positions in a different functional area but really appreciate assessment?

Dana Weintraub [00:34:50]: Our membership and also our leadership members of our leadership team hold very diverse roles related to assessment. So some are in very traditional director of student affairs assessment positions, some at large public research universities, some at smaller schools mid size. We also have members that work in academic assessment, may work in program review accreditation roles at their universities. We also have folks that work in other functional areas but really believe and are really value assessment and enjoy have been exposed to assessment, whether it be, you know, in their graduate program and taking an introductory course in assessment and really want to be doing assessment more infusing it into their role. And so we could have folks that work in for example student activities work but do assessment concentrated in student activities or for example maybe a liaison between their department and an assessment committee. So within the knowledge community we really aim to provide a community for all folks, whether it be I'm really passionate, I believe in the value of assessment and I want to strengthen my assessment assessment skills all the way to I'm in a full time assessment role whether it be in student affairs or in academics or at the university and for example accreditation role.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:18]: And if I'm a NASA member thinking about joining the AERKC but haven't done so yet, what would you like me to hear?

Scott Radimer [00:36:23]: Think that if it's something that you're interested in at all. If you think that this is something that you want to learn more about, then you should sign up to join.

Dana Weintraub [00:36:34]: Join.

Scott Radimer [00:36:34]: You can just do that on your profile. You'll get our emails about that. You can find us on LinkedIn. We have a page for the KC and you can see what are the programs, what are the webinars, when are the meetings for that and you can choose to opt in. So it's really as much or as little commitment as you want to make that if you come to one program you're not promising to show up to every program for the rest of your career.

Dana Weintraub [00:37:00]: Right.

Scott Radimer [00:37:01]: That it's really challenged by choice for that and that to the points we've made earlier that it's really not as difficult or overwhelming or separate from your work as it might feel at times that it might feel like especially for those of us that maybe feel more imposter syndrome at time it might feel like oh no, this is something that other people do that aren't like me. That this is really complicated and extra. And it's something that everybody does in their our day to day life. And it's just when you add a little bit more structure to it is what takes it from like having an opinion to doing an assessment or evaluation for that. And so I encourage everybody to think of themselves as assessment people. We're all assessment people as humans and it's just kind of how extra you are in it as we're going through. Yeah. Consider learning more if you don't know anything about it and if you are engaged in it, I would love to have you join us and be engaged with us in there.

Scott Radimer [00:38:02]: And that's what I'd say.

Dana Weintraub [00:38:03]: One more response to my previous answer. I would be very remiss if I did not acknowledge faculty. Faculty are also a part of the ARKC and our faculty partners who teach assessment student affairs assessment who teach in college student affairs programs. It's time to take a break and toss it over to learn what's going.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:27]: On in the national Anything else you'd like to share with NASPA today about the AERKC or the assessment profession?

Scott Radimer [00:38:33]: So I would just say that kind of along the lines of people thinking that this separate work I would just encourage people to think about the skills that your assessment staff have in there at your university, that if you're a senior administrator, chief student affairs officer, your student affairs assessment people have skills and experiences that are very valuable outside of assessment work too. That these are people that you should be considering for AVP roles or executive director roles outside of I think that as a field we have a tendency to preach transferable skills to students and talk about how amazing this is. And then we do not practice that at all when we are actually hiring people, because we end up hiring people who have these very traditional career paths and career trajectories and experiences because we just want someone we know can do it, that they've done this before. And then we miss out on we're hiring for experience rather than hiring for skills for that. And so I would just encourage people to think about the skills. When you're doing strategic planning, when you're doing evaluation, when you're working in assessment, you know what everybody in the division does because you're reading those reports, you're helping them design assessments that they can really have a broad and deep understanding of the the work that we do across areas and bring a lot of insight and innovation to those areas if they are given the chance. So just like we shouldn't view ourselves as just, you know, data people are not data people, we shouldn't also view other people who do that as just data people or not data people. So that's my plug professionals.

Scott Radimer [00:40:21]: We can do more than just. Although that is very important, I hope that people value it there.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:40:27]: Finally today a big announcement that the NASPA 2026 Full Housing and Registration is open. I hope that you have had an opportunity to sign up for housing and for the registration. I hope that you have had an opportunity to sign up to attend the 2026 NASPA Annual Conference in Kansas City, Missouri.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:51]: Missouri.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:40:51]: If you have signed up, definitely sign up for housing today. You don't want to miss out on the housing opportunities before they fill up. And we're looking forward to seeing so many of you at the conference, looking through all of the pre conference opportunities. There are so many to choose from, so also take some time to look through all of those. Many of those are hosted by our knowledge communities or through other institutes or other individuals that are spending a lot of time to prepare and to allow for you to do a deep dive into topics that are meaningful to you that are impacting your campuses or you individually. So I highly encourage you to check out the pre conference opportunities that are also available for sign up. Every week we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening with within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:41:59]: And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with the knowledge community, giving back within one of the centers or the divisions of the association. And, and as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself where do you fit, where do you want to give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like this. That or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:06]: Chris, thank you so much for keeping us up to date on what's going on in and around naspa. Another great NASPA world segment from you and Scott and Dana. We are now back with our Lightning round. I have seven questions for you to answer in about 90 seconds. Scott, we're going to start with you and then go to Dana. Are you both ready?

Dana Weintraub [00:43:23]: Yes.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:23]: All right, question number one, if you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

Scott Radimer [00:43:29]: I'll say Britney Spears, Toxic by Survivor.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:33]: Number two, when you were five years old, what did you want to be when you grew up?

Scott Radimer [00:43:36]: A paleontologist.

Dana Weintraub [00:43:37]: To be a Solid gold dancer.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:39]: Number three, who's your most influential professional mentor?

Scott Radimer [00:43:42]: I will say that it was my friend and colleague Molly Monahan, who was a GA when I was an undergraduate student and is the reason why I'm in higher education today.

Dana Weintraub [00:43:53]: I'd say Dr. Larry Mineta, retired vice president of Student affairs at Duke University. I worked with him as a graduate student and really amazing mentor. And to this day, friend number four.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:44:05]: Your essential student affairs read.

Scott Radimer [00:44:07]: I Will say Guy Land by Michael Kimmel. I think that a lot of the things that happen on college campuses are specifically about how men and women view themselves as men and women. And we usually don't think about that. And so Guy Land's a great way to kind of make the subtext text.

Dana Weintraub [00:44:28]: So I'm going to take this as answering it from a more personal and what was most meaningful in how I entered in the work that I do is reading Dr. Alexander Astin Sandy Astin's what Matters in College. It really just kind of that's the reason why I do what I do. And it was through that read that actually I think kind of like formed a dream. What was a dream at the time and never knew it was going to become reality of actually studying at ucla. And my time at UCLA was my most formative years in higher education.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:02]: Student Affairs Number five, the best TV show you've been binging lately.

Scott Radimer [00:45:05]: Frieren is an amazing anime that I highly recommend.

Dana Weintraub [00:45:09]: I don't really watch tv. I wish I had time, but I don't. But I would like to get back to I started watching and binging Veronica Mars and so yes, that's the first that came to mind. That's how I'm answering these questions. The first thing that pops into my mind.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:22]: Number six, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last.

Scott Radimer [00:45:26]: Year, the British History Podcast.

Dana Weintraub [00:45:28]: I would love recommendations listeners, please give me your recommendations.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:33]: And finally, number seven, any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional?

Scott Radimer [00:45:37]: I'm going to shout out my former supervisor and friend from the University of Memphis time together, Daryl Ray, who is an awesome person and and continues to reach out and check in on me even though we haven't worked together for like six years. Amazing person. Shout out to Darrell.

Dana Weintraub [00:45:55]: Wow. Well one, I want to give a shout out to everyone on the ARKC leadership team who have been phenomenal colleagues and just thank you for believing in Scott and me and all of your support and it's just so fantastic to work with you. And then I want to give a shout out to some of the folks that are the reasons I'm doing the work that I'm doing today. So Dr. Kristen McKinney for giving me that first position as a graduate student at UCLA Student Affairs Research Office. My current supervisor, Dr. Salvador Mena, who's also a very involved member of NASPA. Thank you for believing in the work that we do in Student affairs assessment.

Dana Weintraub [00:46:35]: Want to give a shout out to all of my colleagues at Rutgers and just Scott shout out to you and how much fun it is to partner with you in strengthening the area.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:46]: It's been such a wonderful conversation today getting to know about the work of the AERKC and a little bit more about your styles and leadership on assessment. If anyone would like to find you after the show, how can they find both you and the AERC so you.

Scott Radimer [00:46:58]: Can find me on LinkedIn is the best way to connect me. Also, in addition to signing up for the KC through NASPA's platform, you can also find us on LinkedIn as well.

Dana Weintraub [00:47:11]: And same for me, LinkedIn is the best place to find me. You're also welcome to email me and I hope that we get a spike in LinkedIn members from after this podcast.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:47:24]: Thank you both so much for sharing your voice with us today.

Dana Weintraub [00:47:27]: Thank you, thank you.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:47:33]: This has been an episode of Essay Voices from the Field brought to you by naspa. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to be so grateful that you choose to spend your your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email [email protected] or find me on LinkedIn by searching for Dr. Jill L. Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions always. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a five star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you're listening now.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:48:02]: It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps us to become more visible and the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton. That's me, produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

In the newest episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field, listeners are invited into a candid and inspiring conversation with Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown and Dae'lyn Do, the current Co-Chairs of NASPA's Women in Student Affairs Knowledge Community (WISA KC). Hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton, this episode delves deep into what makes student affairs such a meaningful field, particularly through the lens of women's leadership, mentorship, and wellbeing.

Jessica and Dae'lyn bring a wealth of experience to their roles—Jessica as Director of Student Leadership and Engagement at Alabama A&M University, and Dae'lyn as Associate Director for the Women in Science and Engineering Residence Program at the University of Michigan. Both share personal journeys into student affairs, marked by transformative mentorship and a dedication to empowering students from all backgrounds.

One of the episode's main themes centers on WISA KC's current focus, encapsulated by the acronym GLOW: Growth, Legacy, Openness, and Wellbeing. As Jessica explains, "We are trying to grow as professionals, leave legacies while honoring those before us, share our authentic stories, and prioritize wellbeing." The discussion highlights that supporting the whole student—academically, personally, and emotionally—is at the heart of student affairs, and staff need to care for themselves to sustain this important work.

Dae'lyn reflects on how student affairs practitioners understand the field's value through direct impact in students' lives, but emphasizes that telling these stories to those outside the field remains a crucial ongoing challenge. She also underscores the importance of wellbeing, especially for women who often take on the nurturing roles on campus.

The episode doesn't shy away from real-world issues: Jessica shares insights from her dissertation on burnout and turnover among entry-level staff, noting compensation and workload as key factors. Both leaders discuss strategies for supervisors to support early-career professionals, stressing flexibility, recognition, and creative ways to foster growth.

Listeners will find examples of impactful mentorship, stories of overcoming imposter syndrome, and actionable advice for supervisors and colleagues. If you're interested in connecting with WISA KC, Dae'lyn and Jessica recommend subscribing to their newsletter, joining their LinkedIn group, and exploring volunteer opportunities.

Tune in for practical wisdom, personal stories, and a refreshing focus on wellbeing and authentic leadership in student affairs—this episode is a must-listen for anyone seeking inspiration and community within higher education.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:02]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts brought to you by naspa. We curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you happen to be. This is season 13 on the value of student affairs. I'm Dr. Jill Creighton. She her hers your SA voices from the Field host. Welcome back to our next episode of SA Voices from the Field. Today we're featuring our NASPA Co-Chairs of the WISA KC Dr.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:34]: Jessica Nathan Brown, a native of Birmingham, Alabama, serves as the Director of Student Leadership and Engagement at Alabama A and M University where she works to enhance student engagement and foster a sense of belonging on campus. In her role, she provides oversight for major campus events, Greek Life, Student Government, Student Publications, University Royalty Student Organizations, International Student Support, Parent and Family Engagement, First Generation Student Initiatives, Freshman Student Transitions, and Welcome Programming and Leadership Development Initiatives. She brings nearly a decade of experience in student activities along with prior experience in residence life. Dr. Brown earned her Bachelor's Degree in Psychology from Stillman College, her Master's in Educational Leadership from the University of South Alabama, and her Doctor of Education in Higher Education Administration from the University of Southern Mississippi. Professionally, Dr. Brown has been an active leader within NASPA, serving four years on the NASPA Alabama Board of Directors as Secretary Treasurer, and four years as professional Development Co Chair for the Women in Student affairs, or WISA Knowledge Community. She now serves as the WISA Co chair for the 2025 through 2027 term and previously held a leadership role within NACA South.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:39]: She currently resides in Decatur, Alabama with her husband Brandon and their son Brandon Jr. Our second guest is DA Lynn Doe. She her Dalen serves as the Associate Director for the Women in Science and Engineering Residence Program at the University of Michigan. Originally from Oklahoma, she earned her Bachelor's Degree in Political Science and Public Relations and Advertising from Northeastern State University and her Master's degree in College Stud from Bowling Green State University in Ohio. Having served on the WISA Casey Leadership Team for almost six years, her involvement with this community has been an instrumental part of her journey in student affairs. She's also been an active member of NASPA since early in her undergrad career, including being part of the NASPA Undergraduate Fellows Program or the NUPF Program and the NASPA Graduate Associate Program or the GAP Program, and serving in a variety of other NASPA volunteer roles. Dalen's experience as a first generation low income college student is what led her to student affairs work. She feels a deep sense of purpose in the field and her goal is to empower students, support them on their journeys toward receiving a higher education, and open doors for them to experience the impact of a college education in the same way that she did.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:43]: Dalen believes in values driven leadership and brings her personal values of integrity, intentionality, authenticity, appreciation and growth to her work with students. Dalen currently lives in Bowling Green, Ohio with her partner and their three pugs. Outside of work, she enjoys playing board games, traveling, spending time outside, and eating good food. Welcome to season 13 of SA Voices here with Jessica.

Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:03:06]: Hi everyone.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:07]: And Dalen.

Dae'lyn Do [00:03:08]: Hello.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:09]: And you two are the current Co Chairs of the Women in Student Affairs Knowledge Community for naspa, which is one of the largest knowledge communities in all of naspa. It's an incredible job that you are both doing. I totally understand why this KC needs co chairs. It's WISA for short. It's got a huge internal board. It is super, super active with everything from events to publications and beyond. So looking forward to talking to you all about what the work is in wisa. But before we get there, we're going to start with your day jobs a little bit and we always like to get to know our guests by asking how did you get to your current seat? And we'll start with you, Jessica.

Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:03:47]: So my current seat, I am currently the Director of Student Leadership and Engagement at Alabama A and M University. I have been here since 2023 and how I got here I started in student affairs, really undergraduate originally my major was psychology. Wanted to be a therapist and was super involved and so learned that this was a field. So I then went to do my Master's in higher education with a GA in residence life. And then I worked at UAB for 7 years in student activities, hence leading me to now this role in Huntsville.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:19]: Excellent. What's your dissertation title?

Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:04:22]: Okay, try to say the actual it's not going to be exact because I don't have to say it often, but essentially I did did my research on burnout in student affairs at the entry level for entry level staff and what were the causes for staff turnover.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:37]: That is an incredible piece of research that we desperately need right now because we know that the field and the dynamics of how we enter the field are changing. So we're definitely going to come back to that. But let's get to know Dalen a little bit as well. Dalen, how did you get to your current seat?

Dae'lyn Do [00:04:50]: Yes, I love this question. I have a pretty similar story to I guess a lot of folks in higher ed and student affairs. I of course didn't know what this was before entering college, but I came into my undergrad at Northeastern State University in Tahlequah, Oklahoma as a first generation low income student who originally thought she was going to become a journalist for the National Geographic. I wanted to travel the world and take pictures of animals. But as I was kind of going through my college journey and realizing the impact that higher education was having on my life and why it was having that impact, it kept coming back to the people and the mentors who were supporting me. And so really I kind of learned early on in my undergrad career that I wanted to do this. And so I started getting involved with NASPA as early as like my sophomore year with the nuff program and then started looking into graduate programs and ended up moving across the country to Bowling Green, Ohio to do their college student personnel master's program for two years. And during that program I was an advisor, a scholarship advisor for the Thompson Scholarship programs, which was a perfect place for me because I was getting to work with other low income students, many of them also first gen.

Dae'lyn Do [00:06:06]: So a lot of students who had very similar stories to mine and that was, I was really doing the heart work there because it was very connected to my own journey and getting to support those students. So after I did my master's program, I actually stayed on full time in that role for almost three more years before finding my current role at the University of Michigan. I'm just down the road, so I wanted to really try to see. I went to a very small regional school for undergrad and then went to Bowling Green, which was bigger in D1, but I really wanted to kind of see what impact I could have at a university as large as the University of Michigan. And it's definitely been a totally different experience in many ways, but I think it's definitely been good professionally to grow and work with awesome students who are exploring STEM as their future. So it's been really cool to to work in a different space and see how different institutions work differently.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:01]: You both have incredible backgrounds in supporting students in student affairs and connected as women as well. How did you meet each other?

Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:07:09]: Through wisa. Actually we met through wisa, being on the leadership team. I was the professional, one of the professional development co chairs for about four years and so I can't remember which year they went when you came in as our TOMS co chair for communications and that is how we met within the leadership team and working together as just part of the larger group internally on projects and things like that as well.

Dae'lyn Do [00:07:34]: Remember the first year I joined either, but it was nice to be joining through comms because I got to use some of that media studies background that I had developed in undergrad, but in a. In the setting of higher ed. So that was fun, but we got to connect through that. And then of course at the conferences and things, the connections, building connections that way too.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:53]: How did you decide that it was the moment to try to be become the chairs together?

Dae'lyn Do [00:07:57]: Well, I think for me, I always say this about wisa and one of the reasons that I love it is because of just the space of empowerment that it is for women and to like lean on each other and uplift each other. Because I never once said, like, I want to be on wisa, like the leadership team or I want to be the Casey co chair. It was other women who saw that in me. And so even as far back, the first time I got involved with WISA was actually with the regional WISA because the Region 4 East does, I think it's a biannual drive in conference. And so that was the year the COVID was happening. So everything had to switch to virtual. And I was just volunteering as like a little subcommittee on that, planning the drive in conference. And then someone was like, oh, you should join the regional board and then you should join the big board and then you should also apply to be the Casey co chair.

Dae'lyn Do [00:08:47]: And so I love that though, because it was never something that I was like, this is my goal or like, I want to do this. But it was other people saying, you would be great for this, like you should apply. Think about it. And so I really love that that has been such a uplifting space. Especially I, you know, I have been involved with WISA very early on in my career. And so as someone who has been a new professional in this space and also having that empowerment has meant a lot to me and I think definitely kind of helped catapult my professional growth in many ways.

Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:09:18]: Yeah, I mean, for me, I just love being on the team. You know, like I said, I did professional development four years within the leadership team. And so I don't know what. Something just kind of struck me of, like, just throw your name in the HA and just see what happens. And then just kind of finding out that Daylyn was also interested in it. It was just kind of an easy connection for me to be able to work with her because I just had seen the amazing work that she was doing through her role in the communication side. And so I thought that we'd make a great team once we realized that we were both interested in it. So kind of worked out.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:48]: This season we're focusing on the value of student affairs as our theme. And WISA has always been a strong contributor to the profession and the professional development space. Especially. Can you talk a little bit about what your focus is right now as a K and how that's supporting this idea of the value of student affairs right now?

Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:10:05]: Yeah, so Daylynn and I created and you know, we'll probably acknowledge our past co chairs because they kind of started this trend of these kind of acronyms and things. And so we were like, well, what, what's going to be our focus? And we came up with glow like wisa and GLOW is for growth, legacy, openness and well being. And so I think those were things that we felt like are areas not only just for women, but just all of student affairs are going through trying to grow as a professional, trying to also, you know, figure out how do you leave your legacy while also honoring those who come before you in the roles that you've been in. Being our authentic selves and sharing our stories and the things that impact us both personally and professionally. And then the big thing, well being. How do we balance student affairs, a busy, busy area or division on every campus, and so how do we balance that as staff when we're trying to also take care of our students?

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:58]: So like we said, is a wonderful way of framing that. And I appreciate hearing the focus on caring for yourself while making sure that we're embracing the profession and what we need to do right now. What are WISA members talking about in terms of this question of the value of student affairs on campus? Because we've come in a different direction given that Covid was not that far away, but it's also now a generation of college students away. And we went from being seen as kind of the saviors of the campus for a moment in time back to I think the question and the value of the profession has swung pendulum wise the other direction again a little bit. Not for everybody, but definitely it's there.

Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:11:35]: You know, in terms of the value of student affairs right now, it's so much. And I think one of the things is being just looking at the whole student because we see them outside of the classroom. And I often hear people say they're in the classroom maybe 20% of the time, but other 80% they're either in organizations they're needing to go to like health and counseling, they're needing their residence, life, all of the things. And so we are Looking at the whole student and trying to look at how do we take a holistic approach to making sure that they stay focused and ultimately that they graduate. And so I think it's this concept of just that holistic student development. I think that's a part of the value of student affairs because we kind of touch them in every area. And depending on what campus you're on, you know, like my campus enrollment management also falls within student affairs. So then you add that piece to it and trying to think about enrollment and retention and those kind of things.

Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:12:32]: I just think it's the value of it. It's just that we're touching the whole student in all aspects of their life while they're on campus.

Dae'lyn Do [00:12:40]: Yeah, when I think about the value of student affairs, truly, I think we as the folks who are doing the work understand the value. Like we know the impact that we're having. And oftentimes we get to see it pretty firsthand when we are connecting with students and seeing the impact that we're having. Not always, but a lot of times we do. And so I think it's really about how are we communicating that or showcasing to other people like that don't aren't in the work day in and day out and don't fully know the work that we do. I mean, of course our. I feel like it's an ongoing joke when we talk to our families about the work that we do. Mine still thinks I'm a professor, so I'm like, well, maybe someday, but not quite yet.

Dae'lyn Do [00:13:21]: And so I think being able to communicate and really put into words what the value is. And I also think helping students understand that value and name that themselves too, because I think they do know the value. But they don't know the difference of course between the student affairs side and the non student affairs side. Cause they're just here, they're just at college doing their thing and they just see it as one thing. And so I think helping students share their story and talk about the impact and the people that have impacted them is really important part of it. And I think for women too, a big thing that we're talking about in like the WISA space regularly is that well being piece and how are institutions valuing us in what they say versus like what they do. And so we of course are putting so much of ourselves into this work and both with our time, I mean many, many people working many late nights and weekends and being away from family and really putting time and effort into the work. But then also the like heart of the work and like the emotional toll that it takes on usually women specifically in the field, because we're the ones who have the, quote, unquote, caregiving energy.

Dae'lyn Do [00:14:35]: And so the space, the nurturer, yes, the nurturers, they come to us, they see that. And of course I want to do that work and have that impact, but it can't just be all the time. Like, I can't do that all the time and then also go home and be that person for my family as well. And so I think it's kind of two parts. One, telling our stories, two, and showing up in spaces where, especially at tables where they're talking about the impact of the future of higher education, generally speaking. But I also think financially, I think that's been kind of a big question mark for even at the University of Michigan, it's a large flagship institution. Like, financially, things have shifted a little bit recently. And so I think just thinking about the ways that we're supporting our staff and telling our stories, but also putting value into the work that we're doing each day.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:26]: Anything to add there, Jessica?

Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:15:27]: I echo everything that Daylenna said, especially the part about telling our stories. I think that part is something that we can do better in student affairs. But I. It gets hard and challenging sometimes because we are so in the work and so it's hard to sometimes come up for air to like literally put it into words or even pictures, whatever that may look like in reports, and different things to share not only just within our divisions, but across our institutions, but because we're so in it, sometimes it's hard to remember, like, hey, we need to share what we're doing so that people really understand the impact that we're having.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:16:02]: I think this leads us nicely into our three theme based questions for the season. And I'm actually gonna go in in a different order because I think we're. We're going to start with number three. Our first. Well, third question of the theme season is what do you think that student affairs needs to do to be better understood and better seen in today's educational environment?

Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:16:21]: Well, I think what we were just talking about with telling our stories, the data is there, we're doing it. Whether it's through qualitative or quantitative ways or methods, the data is there. It's just us putting it together, putting it out there and telling our stories. But I also think it is making sure that we advocate for, like us being educators. A lot of times when, you know, if you're in a room and people may Say all the educators, raise your hand. And sometimes we're kind of like, I mean, yes, that's us, but we're not the faculty. But we are still educating students in other ways. And so just reminding ourselves that we are educators as well, even though we're doing it from maybe the staff side of things versus faculty, but we are still educators, whether that be through leadership development or different things like that.

Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:17:06]: And that also comes with collaboration. I think we can collaborate with other divisions. So, you know, that bridge between student affairs and academic affairs, if we're collaborating more versus sometimes being in silos, I think that that could help us be better as well.

Dae'lyn Do [00:17:21]: Yeah, I think again, it's hard because we know the work that we do and the impact that we're having. And sometimes it feels like others maybe aren't thinking about us or, I don't know, thinking about that in the day to day because again, they're not on the ground doing the work. And so I think, of course, showing up in those spaces and advocating for our ourselves. But I also think, how do we get other folks to look at us too? I guess because it's like, well, what can we do? Well, I think we're doing the work and like we're doing what we need to be doing to have the impact. It's just figuring out how we showcase that and really get people to listen and hear the impact on a greater scale. Because, yeah, I think, as we all know, higher education is kind of in a shift moment right now. And I don't want us to be the people who fall through the cracks as decisions have to be made. But I.

Dae'lyn Do [00:18:15]: We're already seeing that happen both financially across the country and different institutions. And I know many colleagues who've lost their jobs recently and it did matter that they told their story, but like, they did tell it and it still like, wasn't enough. And so I guess it's kind of hard to think about what can we do? We're already doing so much, so how can we get people to listen?

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:36]: I guess going to our first question for our season. When you think about the value of student affairs, what comes to mind first and why?

Dae'lyn Do [00:18:43]: For me, I mean, it's very personal. I think about how dramatically my life changed as a result of higher education. And of course it was because of what I was learning inside of the classroom, but it also was because of what I was learning outside of the classroom and the connections that I was making and the people who were empowering me and helping me process my own imposter. Syndrome and just the different things that you don't always talk about with a faculty member or in an academic setting. And yeah, I just think about that all the time. And like, of course that's why I do the work that I do. So it's easy for me to say, oh, I want to continue to give back in this way, but like, it's so true. I mean, when I have students who come to my office and want to talk through the challenges that they're having, that means so much to me.

Dae'lyn Do [00:19:31]: And being able to really help them just navigate some of those things that they aren't sure of or don't know who to ask, especially for. For my fellow first gen students out there, you don't always even know what you need. And so being someone who knows, hey, maybe this is maybe what's going on, like, have you thought about it this way? And then just seeing that moment click for them and being able to just reach their dreams, I mean, there's so many things that can impact your ability to succeed and the barriers that you have to overcome. And being someone who can connect students to resources to help them do that so that at the end of the day they can go, go be the person that they wanted to be and reach their goals and dreams. That is everything to me. Again, because it's both, because it's personal, because I've been there, I've done that, but also because I want my students do that too, and I care about them and want them to reach their goals and dreams as well.

Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:20:20]: Love that. Similar for me, when I think about the value of student affairs, I think about impact. We make a huge impact on students, lives on the campus, on other areas across campus, especially, you know, just like I said earlier, depends on how your division may be structured, but we are touching students in a very holistic way in every aspect of their lives while they're here. And I just think about the impact that we're having. Like, even when it's hard and it's tough and we're tired and we just want to rest, what keeps me motivated and keeps me going is knowing the impact that we're making on students. And when I have students from years ago and I see them, whether that's in person or I'm just following them on social media and seeing all the great things that they're doing. And every now and then you have that one or two. That's just like, I remember when you taught me this or, or you said this to me and that helped me like Those.

Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:21:11]: Those little moments are like, make it worth it, all of the late nights and different things like that. So I definitely think impact when I think about the value of student affairs.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:21]: Our third slash second question for this theme is, can you please share a specific story or moment when you saw the value of student affairs come to life? And in your references there, Jessica, I think you've got some of those stories right at the forefront.

Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:21:34]: So I think, well, this is probably a long time ago, probably in my early few years, you being a new professional, but working with student organizations and advising them. And I had a student where I was really kind of challenging them. So I came in and I kind of inherited some students in an organization, so they were already selected. And I kind of came in and, you know, you kind of, as a new professional, like, I don't know, like, you know, I don't want to rock the boat too much, but I. I thought, you know, some things needed to be changed. And so I did have one student who came back after he had graduated, and he was just talking about things in his career, and I was asking how things were going, and he was like, yeah, and it was just a small thing. And he was just like you. I had to make sure that all my emails were professional and different things that I was sending out.

Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:22:17]: And he said, and you made me do that. You made me do that when I was in the organization to make sure that my emails are written professionally or you would send it back to me and say, start over. And that helped me make sure that I'm being professional in my career right now. And so even just the small things, I'll never forget that moment. I was like, oh, you really were paying attention. I thought I was just flipping at your time. And so I've had a lot of moments like that. And I think of another, more recent one where I had a student who was just on the fence about running for our Student Government association president and really didn't think that she had what it took to do it, but she had served in another leadership role on campus, but I guess she didn't think that it was to the same level and kind of saying, like, you know, do you really think that I can do this? And I said, I think you can do it.

Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:23:03]: And I've just seen what you've done, you know, in your current role. And she ran, she won. And phenomenal. Just like everybody, the university president, everybody was complimenting how professional she is all the time and all those things. She just did an amazing job. And I Always just made a point, whether she was giving a speech or something and say, like, you're doing a great job. So I actually saw her the other week. She came to campus.

Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:23:29]: She's graduated now, but for an event that we had one of our welcome activities and walked up and hugged me and just said, everything is going really well. But I think think just that little bit of a nudge to like, help them see their potential really matters in the moment.

Dae'lyn Do [00:23:41]: I definitely echo the sentiment of saying things that you don't realize are actually having an impact or like, even thinking like, oh, this is a good moment. Oh, that was a good nugget of knowledge that I shared. No, I never think that. But then they come back to me months later and they're like, you said this one time. And I was like, oh, I'm so glad that you remember that I said that. I don't even remember saying that. So that definitely happens all the time. Which only makes me a little more.

Dae'lyn Do [00:24:06]: Okay, I need to really know what I'm talking about here. They're gonna take it all. So I can't think of a good example of that, but definitely echo that. But one thing I do think about often is so each year that I have been a full time professional in higher education, I have facilitated like a welcome week for our incoming students. And so one of the sessions that I was really passionate about including in the welcome week programming, the first time I did it was an imposter syndrome session. And so just naming what it is, helping students explore if they're potentially feeling it. And I remember the first year that I did it or that I would had proposed that it be a topic, one of my colleagues was like, well, I don't know, like, do you think that this is too heavy of a topic to talk about? Like their first week, you know, they're just getting to campus and like, they need to be getting excited and feeling, you know, you know, we don't want to like, make them sad by talking about imposter syndrome on day one. And I was like, I understand what you're saying, but I actually think the opposite.

Dae'lyn Do [00:25:06]: Because the truth is, is that many of these students are feeling that imposter syndrome. And so by not naming it early on, they're just going to be feeling it whether we talk about it or not, but then have those feelings in isolation and feel lonelier about it and not know how to talk about it. And so I really, like, pushed back and was like, no, I think we need to include it in welcome week. I Know it's heavier, but like it's important. And that year and every year since I think this is my fifth or sixth year presenting the session, every single year, I have students who just talk about how impactful that session session is and they write little notes to say like, thank you. This had such a huge impact on me. You really normalized this for me. Like, I have students come scheduling one on ones like the next week because they're like, just want to talk about it more and unpack it more on their own personal journey.

Dae'lyn Do [00:25:56]: And in that I'm very authentic about my own journey. And so I think that helps too to normalize it. But I just think about that every year because I remember that I felt hesitant because someone questioned it, but I said no, I think this is important. And really sticking through to what I thought impact that I knew that it would make and then knowing that that has been true is really special to see that and see the impact play out that way.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:20]: I read something not too long ago that was to the effect of imposter syndrome is not an individual's challenge to overcome. It's really the individual encountering a system that was never made with them in mind. Which I really appreciate that reframe.

Dae'lyn Do [00:26:34]: That is definitely something I talk about in that space because it's true. I mean especially. And I think again, circling back to the value of this work and why we do this work. And it's because, yeah, these systems were not made for me or many of the people who do continue to do this work. And so naming that so that it's not something that a student or even as student affairs professional, I can't say I don't still feel imposter syndrome sometimes. And so I think recognizing that it's not like I'm not the problem, like it was never about me being the issue. It's the system that was built and how do we help our students understand so that they don't feel like they have to change something about themselves.

Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:27:16]: And I'd also say on even the staff side of things, like, I'm a huge proponent of professional development, staff development, which is why I'm so involved. I've been so involved in NASPA and other associations, but I think about this past summer served as a faculty for New Professionals Institute. And just being in that space with all those new professionals, it just reenergized me. And I heard a lot of them saying they're leaving. I re energized after participating in the institute. But I even think about we had One on one sessions. I mean, they could sign up to meet with, you know, whatever faculty they wanted to meet with. And I had a couple of participants say to me or even write me notes after the fact about, you know, just even thinking about the identity of it, of seeing me as a black woman in a director's seat.

Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:28:03]: And that's where they want to be. And they wanted to make sure, like I wanted to make sure that I met with you. And there was one other black female, a faculty member, and that was important to them to see. And it helped them be energized and ready to go back and continue to do the work. Because burnout was a big topic for them. And so just seeing that impact as well from the staff side of things made me be like, okay, again, I'm tired. But people, the impact is there. And so to keep pushing and doing the work.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:32]: Let's go back to that dissertation topic. Jessica, as we're talking about burning, what can you tell us about new professionals and their choice to enter and then ultimately exit the field early in their careers?

Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:28:43]: So you know that I. So I did a survey and everyone has similar stories to me and Daelyn as far as entering the field. What I found when it comes to the turnover was the top things were burnout. Compensation was the other big thing. I'm feeling like a lot of times entry level professionals are the boots on the ground, like doing the late nights and the different things like that and feeling as though they're not getting paid adequately for that. And we all know student affairs work is hard work. I know Daelyn mentioned that about the heart earlier. And so oftentimes we aren't doing it for the paycheck.

Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:29:18]: We are doing it because we really love what we do. And so that was definitely the top two things was burnout due to the workload, often working more than 40 hours a week and compensation.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:31]: I have a former colleague who was incredible in their job and then ended up moving on to Amazon where they ended up, I believe, more than xing their salary for a similar type of level of position. So that's always interesting to see what is the impact of what we can do within the boundaries of our jobs versus what can we do if we move in industry? I can see pros and cons to, you know, working in an education setting versus a corporate setting setting. But as much as we love our jobs in student affairs, we still also need to be able to pay our bills.

Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:30:04]: Right? And I'll also add that I did also find a Couple of people that indicated when they moved from student affairs to another area on campus, they were paid a little bit more and they could also go home at 5 with some of the feedback there as well.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:20]: Anything else that listeners should know, especially listeners that are in supervisory roles in terms of supporting new professionals or kind of early career professionals so that they can persist at in the profession if that's what they want to do.

Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:30:32]: I would encourage supervisors to check in one because sometimes we think everything is okay because people are just moving and going, but sometimes if we just ask the question, how are you doing? We'll learn a lot that may not be said otherwise. So I think checking in, I think in spaces where we may not be able to compensate financially, find other ways to be creative for that compensation, whether that be professional development, paying for those things if we have the budget to do so, giving some time off here, take a day here and there, those types of things. Getting a gift card. Sometimes I try to take my staff to lunch every now and then. I know it's small but hey, let me take you to lunch or I have a little all about me thing that we have. And so I'm able to kind of pick out snacks and different things. They like to kind of say, hey, here's a little thank you for the work that you're doing. So I think being creative in ways to compensate and support our staff, but definitely to check in because sometimes they may not say it if we don't ask.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:28]: And Dalen, in the inverse, you are probably in your last year of being called early coach career. So you're in your fourth to fifth year at the moment as a full time professional. What behaviors have you seen from supervisors or colleagues that has helped you persist in the field, knowing that burnout has been high amongst early career professionals?

Dae'lyn Do [00:31:45]: Yeah, I think I've been lucky in that sense of just having really supportive supervisors who sought the idea of flex time or like if you're working late on a Tuesday, I don't want to see you on Wednesday morning. Being able to find balance, I guess where recognizing that sometimes it's not written into the contract, but still being able to find ways to make that space for yourself and to not just keep yourself running and especially if it doesn't make sense. Obviously I want to be here and be present to support the students, but do I have to be here at 8am every single morning to do that? No, probably not. And I even work in the same building where they're sleeping, but they're just upstairs. But they're still asleep. So if they don't need me there, they don't need me there. But because I have that flexibility, I can be there when they do need me. And like, it's in the times and spaces when they need me.

Dae'lyn Do [00:32:37]: So I've been lucky in that way. And just having supportive mentors who and again, check in on my own professional development, making sure I'm feeling like I'm continuing to challenge myself and grow and making spaces where I feel both celebrated, but also gaining opportunities to take on new things. Like, if there's something I'm like, oh, I don't really have experience in this and I want to gain it. Creating spaces for me in those settings I think is really important because they know that in order to make more money, we have to move up. And so recognizing that, okay, you might not be working under me forever, and that's okay. I want to support you on that journey too, because I think sometimes it's, you know, when you work with good people, of course you don't want them to leave. But I think I've had good supervisors who recognize that, like, well, if it's better for you, what's best for you is to leave, then that's okay. Let's help you get where you want to go.

Dae'lyn Do [00:33:30]: And so I think trying not to be hold on to those people if what's best for them is for them to grow and spread their wings somewhere else. So I feel like I have been supported in that way. And then another thing I just was thinking about was, and I don't know what question this answers or who is the person who should answer it, but I do think I've seen, as I've continued to see people like leaving our field, especially younger professionals, we are lowering the expectations for our jobs and like the job postings. And so I feel like I've seen a lot more people entering student affairs spaces without the student affairs background. And it's not that it's always a bad thing. I mean, of course outside perspective is often helpful, and it's not that those people aren't also great. But I do think that when we talk about the value of student affairs, we aren't seeing that in those spaces all of the time. Because yes, I got a degree in this work.

Dae'lyn Do [00:34:25]: I spent two years learning how to work with students, learning the theory behind it, learning all of the things, things. And then I'm not being valued for that education that I'm like bringing because you might hire someone over me who doesn't have that education or experience. And so I think just thinking about that, I guess I don't know. Again, I don't know what the solution is because I also understand that sometimes you don't even have options when you're hiring. But it's just thinking about that and what value. When we talk about the value, recognizing the value in our own education and what we went to school for and just like naming that in those spaces.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:01]: That'S a great can of worms question that I don't want us to necessarily dig all the way into, but I think it has been on the table for a little while, which is do you need a Master of Education degree focused in college student Services administration or higher Education administration in order to be successful in student affairs roles? I think personally the answer for some roles is yes, and for some roles maybe not. Maybe a completely different skill set as needed, such as communications or sociology or business backgrounds. So it's an interesting question that I think our field is going to have to face in the next couple of years for sure. I want to circle back to WISA as our time wraps up together. If I'm a listener and a NASA member and WISA is intriguing to me, but maybe I've never entered the space before, how can I enter it and what can I expect once I'm in it?

Dae'lyn Do [00:35:47]: Yes, well if you're not already subscribed to our monthly newsletter, you should definitely do that. That is where we promo all of our upcoming events and ways to get engaged. We also have social media page, both LinkedIn. We actually have a private LinkedIn group which is where you can join join and I think there's like over 20,000 people in the group. So it's a really popping group. But you can join it and then you can share. So that one's really nice to be able to be like I have a job posting and like people can just share their research and all the things that there are going on. And then we have a public group that is where we can share specific WISA content so events and different things.

Dae'lyn Do [00:36:27]: And so both of Those exist on LinkedIn. We also have an Instagram and a Facebook so that's really the best way to figure out what's going on with with us. The newsletter and social media are certainly the go tos, but when you do enter the space we have lots of programming happening all the time. We have a couple of different signature initiatives happening this fall. We also have a blog so you can write for our WISA blog and share any kind of research that you're working on, but also just anything you feel like you want to write about that applies to women in our field and sharing that in our space. We are open for that. I think those are some key things that you could be a part of, but definitely all of the things you can find out about us on social media or newsletter.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:10]: Jessica Anything to add?

Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:37:11]: For now on Instagram it's NASPA Women with an X. So if you're looking us up and I'll also say we also have opportunities as well. So while our leadership team is full, we have opportunities to volunteer as committee members under some of our co chairs. So if you're interested, reach out to either one of us as well so we can get you plugged in to be a part of some of those smaller subcommittee.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:33]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:37:39]: Thanks Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world and there's a ton of things happening in NASPA. I'm excited today to be able to announce the 2026 Pillars of the Profession. The Pillars of the Profession every year are selected from the NASPA foundation, and it is one the of of the Foundation's highest honors. The award comes from you, our members and supporters as a way to recognize your fellow colleagues who represent outstanding contributions to the field and our organization. This year, the NASPA foundation has selected two 2026 John L. Blackburn Distinguished Pillar of the Profession Award winners, Henry G. And Betty Simmons.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:38:26]: This award is the NASPA Foundation's highest honor, celebrating previous Pillar of the Profession winners who have continued to contribute to the field. The foundation has also identified the following individuals as Pillars of the Profession for this year Tierney Bates, Vice Chancellor for Student affairs at the University of South Carolina Upstate Roland Bullard Jr. Vice president for Student Success at Stillman College Charlotte Davidson, Director of the Native American House, University of Illinois at urbana champaign Rich DiCapua, Senior Associate Dean of Students and Deputy Chief Student Life Officer at Tufts University Cassie Gerhardt, Senior Associate Vice President for Student affairs at University of North Dakota Gianluca Giovannucci, President of iuka, the European University College Association Dennis Gregory, Associate professor of Higher Education at Old Dominion University University Blanche Hughes, Vice President of Student Affairs, Colorado State University, Fort Collins Paul McLaughlin II, Vice President and Dean of the College at Colgate University Brian Mitra, Vice President of Student affairs and Enrollment Management at CUNY Queensborough Community College Sophia Pertuss, founder and Principal Consultant at Mainstream Insight LLC Scott Pesca, Esther, Assistant Provost for Academic and Student Success at Waubonsie Community College Calvin Phillips, Vice President for Student affairs at the University of Minnesota, Twin Cities Mark Shook, Associate Vice President and Dean of Students and Deputy Title IX Coordinator at the University of South Carolina David Surratt, Vice President for Student affairs and Dean of Students at the University of Oklahoma Michelle Topp, Vice Provost for Student affairs at Portland State University University Erin Kahunwaika Wright, Interim Associate Vice Provost for Student Success and Dean of Students at the University of Hawaii at Manoa and Toya Younger, Senior Vice President for Student affairs at Iowa State University this new class of pillars will be honored at the 2026 NASPA Annual Conference. If you would like to celebrate one or multiple of these pillars of the profession with a donation to the NASPA foundation foundation in honor of them, to the NASPA foundation website and donate online, your donations will go towards celebrating not only these individuals, but supporting the efforts of the foundation to support members, research and more, and support the association more broadly. The early registration for the NASPA Strategies Conference is coming up on October 28, 2020. The NASPA strategies conference is happening January 15th to 17th, 2026 in Chicago, Illinois. The strategies conferences provide student affairs practitioners with the knowledge and skills to effectively address collegiate alcohol and drug misuse prevention, mental health, sexual violence prevention and response, peer education and well being through a variety of comprehensive and integrative approaches. These conferences allow for individuals to gather together and to unite champions of health and well being in one space to learn, network and advance comprehensive, integrative approaches to campus challenges.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:41:46]: If these conferences sound like ones that you would like to attend, they are a powerful they are powerful conferences and definitely ones that you will learn from. I highly encourage you to check them out today by going to the NASPA website. To get there, just go to NASPA and go under events and online learning to learn more. Another professional development opportunity is the Next up Elevation for Millennial Women Leaders presented by the Women's Leadership Institute. This is happening December 10th through December 12th in Decatur, Georgia. You know Middle managers are often at the heart of change tasked with translating senior executive strategies into actionable plans. If you are a middle manager who identifies as a Millennial or as Millennial adjacent, this is a amazing opportunity to be able to meet other individuals like yourself that are changing campuses one day at a time. This conference has carefully curated a lineup of panels, speakers and breakout sessions to explore topics such as Real Talk for Power, Middle Career Acceleration, Strategy Strategies, Intentional Peer Based Networking, Holistic Leadership Development, Bridging Generations and Building legacies.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:43:06]: As mentioned, this is in Decatur, Georgia at Agnes Scott College in December of 2026. You can find out more on the ACUI website, go to acui.org and click on Events to find out more. Every week we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways. Because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with the knowledge community, giving back within one of the centers, or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for your yourself, where do you fit, where do you want to give back? Each week we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that, or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to, to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:44:37]: Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in naspa.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:44:49]: Chris, we always appreciate you keeping us informed on what's going on in and around naspa. And we have now reached our light where I've got seven questions for you to answer in about 90 seconds. We've got Dalen going and then Jessica going. So we're gonna dive in right with question one, if you're ready.

Dae'lyn Do [00:45:06]: We're ready.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:07]: All right, question one. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

Dae'lyn Do [00:45:12]: I'm gonna be bad at this. I would probably say something by chance. The rapper.

Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:45:16]: Love that. I would probably say anything. Beyonce. But for today, I'm gonna say run the world.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:22]: Number two, when you were five years old, what did you want to be when you grew up?

Dae'lyn Do [00:45:25]: Journalist.

Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:45:26]: I wanted to be a teacher.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:28]: Number three, who's your most influential professional mentor?

Dae'lyn Do [00:45:30]: Dr. Kelly Jo Larson.

Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:45:32]: Dr. Sharon Whitaker Davis.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:34]: Number four, your essential student affairs read.

Dae'lyn Do [00:45:37]: I have recently been reading a book about first generation professionals in student affairs in higher education, so I would recommend that one.

Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:45:45]: Well, I haven't read it yet. But I just bought it at the NASA conference this year. About mid level managers. I can't remember the exact book, but it's about mid level managers.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:54]: Number five the best TV show you've been binging lately.

Dae'lyn Do [00:45:57]: Well, it's fall so I'm back on Gilmore Girl.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:00]: Binging same.

Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:46:01]: My husband and I binge watched recently this show called the Hunting Party. It's a new show but it was very, very enticing. So we will be watching it when the next season comes.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:11]: Number six, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

Dae'lyn Do [00:46:15]: Probably one of my Taylor Swift podcasts that talk about the Easter eggs and things, especially with the upcoming album.

Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:46:23]: So I'm not a big podcast person, but I'll say they do have a podcast, but I see the clips on Instagram so it's Devale and Kade Ellis just talking about relationship type thing.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:34]: And finally, number seven any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional?

Dae'lyn Do [00:46:38]: I just give a shout out to everybody who's helped me along my journey and thank you for supporting me. All my supervisors that I've had along the journey and my students too. I think we didn't talk about that as much today, but I definitely think that the students have impacted me and my own growth as much as I've probably impacted them, hopefully.

Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:46:58]: I'd like to shout out my WISA family, best co chair in the world, Daelyn, our former co chairs in the past few years. I'd also like to shout out my husband who's also in student affairs. So that's always a fun story. We both are in student affairs. Shout out all of my like Damon said, my past supervisors, my current supervisor, my Alabama A&M family, just everyone in my family who's been a part of my journey.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:47:20]: It's been such a joy to learn more about WiSA's work today and get to know your perspective perspectives on the value of student affairs. I'm sure there are other NASPA listeners who would like to connect with you both if they would like to find you. How can they do that?

Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:47:33]: Yeah, so my LinkedIn is just Jessica Nathan Brown. Definitely connect with me and would love to chat and get to know you.

Dae'lyn Do [00:47:41]: I agree. My LinkedIn is also just Dailyn Doe so you should be able to find me and connect and also reaching out via the link WISA platforms as well. We monitor those so if that's easier.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:47:54]: Thank you both so much for sharing your voices with us today.

Dr. Jessica Nathan Brown [00:47:57]: Thank you.

Dae'lyn Do [00:47:57]: Thank you for having us.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:48:03]: This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field brought to you by naspa. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to be so grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email [email protected] or find me on LinkedIn by searching for Dr. Jill L. Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions always. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a five star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you're listening now.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:48:33]: It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode this episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton. That's me, produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

Are you searching for inspiration to fuel your own journey in leadership and personal development? Look no further than the latest episode of our podcast, featuring Craig Best in conversation with Dr. Jill Creighton. This thought-provoking discussion is packed with candid stories, honest reflections, and actionable takeaways that you won't want to miss.

One of the main themes that emerges from this episode is the ongoing process of growth—both personally and professionally. Craig Best is refreshingly open about the importance of learning from failure and embracing vulnerability in the leadership space. Through his anecdotes and experiences, listeners are reminded that the path to success isn't linear, and that setbacks are not just inevitable, but invaluable. Craig's perspective encourages us to reframe mistakes as opportunities for learning and self-improvement rather than sources of shame.

Another powerful topic explored during the episode is the significance of authentic relationships. Both Dr. Creighton and Dr. Lewis draw out compelling insights as Craig shares how cultivating trust and genuine connections can create lasting impact. Whether you're a leader in your organization or working to develop your own network, the episode is packed with practical advice for fostering environments where everyone feels empowered and heard.

The episode also delves into the idea of legacy—how leaders shape their environments today, and how their choices reverberate over time. Craig discusses the mentors who have influenced him, the lessons he hopes to pass on, and the obligation leaders have to support and uplift others. This conversation is an important reminder of the ripple effect our words and actions can have, both now and in the future.

Finally, you'll be inspired by the emphasis on self-awareness and intentionality as essential leadership tools. The dialogue is filled with strategies for staying grounded, keeping ego in check, and navigating challenges with empathy and grace.

If you're looking for a compelling listen that blends insight, authenticity, and actionable wisdom, this episode with Craig Best, and Dr. Jill Creighton is one you can't afford to skip. Tune in now and unlock new perspectives that will help you lead, grow, and connect more effectively—both in your personal life and your professional journey.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:02]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts brought to you by naspa. We curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you happen to be. This is season 13 on the value of student affairs. I'm Dr. Jill Creighton. She her hers your Essay Voices from the Field host Today on Essay Voices, we're headed across the pond to meet Craig Best, who's currently the Director of Student and Academic Services at the University of Manchester. Craig is a senior higher education leader and researcher with extensive experience shaping student experience, governance and digital innovation across UK universities. As a Director at the University of Manchester, he oversees a broad portfolio spanning student success, outreach and access, curriculum and quality development, international transnational education and collaborations, interdisciplinary learning, careers and employability, student volunteering and success and administrative services including timetabling, data management, student records, admissions and student finance.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:09]: His leadership is defined by emotional intelligence, participatory decision making and a strategic focus on sustainable institutional impact. Craig's research at the University of Bath explores the intersection of emotional intelligence, systems thinking and higher education governance, with particular attention to digital transformation and policy implementation. A central theme of his work is the role of leadership playing in a volatile and uncertain climate we now find ourselves in. Beyond research, Craig translates theory into practice. He's led transformative initiatives and quality assurance, service delivery and workforce planning, admissions collaborations. Wow, starting that whole paragraph over. Sorry. Beyond research, Craig translates theory into practice.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:48]: He's led transformative initiatives in quality assurance, service delivery and workforce planning, admissions and collaborations. His approach ensures that institutional change aligns with mission and market realities while advancing student outcomes and staff development. Craig also serves on the Academic Registrar Council Executive in the uk, contributing to sector wide leadership and policy discussions as a mentor and advocate for professional growth. He champions leadership grounded in ethical reasoning, critical thinking and systems awareness, bringing comparative international perspectives to inform policy, practice and innovation in UK higher ed. Driven by inclusivity, innovation and service excellence, he Craig combines deep sector knowledge with creative problem solving, positioning institutions to navigate complex challenges while sustaining their core mission and enhancing the student and staff experience. Craig, welcome to SA Voices.

Craig Best [00:02:37]: Hi Jill. It's really nice to be here. Thank you for inviting me.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:40]: Lovely to see you again. You first engaged with NASPA at this year's annual conference. Which happened. Where were we?

Craig Best [00:02:48]: New Orleans.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:49]: New Orleans, that's right. I was. I was thinking Seattle, but that was two years ago now. I believe that was your first exposure to naspa, right?

Craig Best [00:02:55]: It was absolutely my first exposure. Exposure and it blew me away. What NASPA does. I've come back singing the praises of NASPA and how the US model the work around student affairs and academic affairs is just absolutely fantastic. Lots of learning happened, lots of thoughts. So yeah, it's really great to be on the podcast to talk a little bit more about the UK and kind of where I've come and where all those kind of directions to travels are.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:22]: Well, as far as English speaking countries that are producing a lot of research, the UK is certainly at the top of that list as well, producing a lot of information at the moment. And a lot of change is happening in the British higher education landscape. So I thought we'd use our episode today to help our primarily North American audience learn a little bit more about what student services looks like in the UK and what we call things, because we have a lot of students coming over to study abroad. And in my own experience, I think that there's a lot of assumptions that we understand each other's culture more easily because we speak the same language. But I've also found that's really not true in a lot of cases. And so that assumption can get us into trouble when we think we understand the context and maybe we don't. So I'd love to start with Amashi actually, and if you could tell us a bit about what Amashi is, because for our North American listeners, it's really the analog in the UK to NASPA in a lot of ways, but the purview is a little bit broader because of the way that things are structured. So why don't you tell us about Amashi and what you do there?

Craig Best [00:04:23]: Yeah, no. So there's a number of associations in the UK and the British sector. So the one that probably is a closest aligned to naspa, as you said, Jill, is Omoshi, which is as its full name, which is rarely ever used, is the association of Managers of Student Services and Higher Education. Rolls off the tongue naturally. That's been about for about 20, 25 years and it's focused on what we in the, in particular in the UK refer to as student services. And traditionally that's focused quite a lot on your safeguarding, your mental health, your well being, some of the work around student experience and development, but mainly it focuses on the welfare and wellbeing side of the institution. But it does range into things like equality and diversity. It does deal with complaints and appeals and that process.

Craig Best [00:05:16]: But that group is predominantly your director level. So and I appreciate we've had a chat about this previously, is even our titles are different between the US and the uk. So a director level in the UK is around Europe, probably your Associate VP role within the us. So that traditionally was a smaller. A group of people that would come together, share good practice. And over the last 10 years, with most of our associations, it's broadened out to be an opportunity to bring people in to talk about the key themes and subjects. So sexual violence and harassment, looking at how we support Black heritage students or widening participation Students to succeed has been a big part. And for two years prior to the role I've taken on in another association, I was a member of the Executive for Omoshi, and now I'm an executive member for something we call arc, which is the Academic Registrars Council, which the best way of describing it is lots of the directors of Student Support Services report into the Academic Registrar role or the registrar role within the university.

Craig Best [00:06:26]: So the Vice President of Student affairs or Academic Affairs. And the way I kind of talk about that is we don't necessarily use the word student affairs in the uk. It's not a word we use. Student services is academic services or registry as a more traditional way.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:43]: And that Academic Registrar title was really confusing for me at first because in the US it typically means the person who is literally in charge of university credits and scheduling and some parts of enrollment. So my best analogy is that the Academic Registrar role in the UK is more like what we would call a vpsaem or Vice President for Student affairs and Enrollment Management. So both of those funnels are in that position. You also mentioned a couple of other terms that I just want to make sure that we clarify. You said safeguarding, which is not a term that's used in North America a ton. And then you also mentioned being on the Executive. So why don't you go ahead and just give us a quick brief explanation on those.

Craig Best [00:07:21]: Yes. So in the uk we use safeguarding as a phrase. So from a legal perspective, it's around protecting vulnerable individuals. So that may be people that may not have capacity defined by law, or it's in the broader sense around protecting the interests of individuals. And what do we do to safeguard a student that may be facing domestic violence, maybe facing sexual violence, so that that all builds into that. I think the one thing to really note about what I think is the difference between a US and a UK model is that student affairs, we operate quite heavily in a compliance environment, so we have quite a lot of regulatory. So when we talk about regulatory, it's the government requirements, so we have to meet conditions. So requirements of a regulatory body.

Craig Best [00:08:14]: So That's a government bodies called the Office for Students and there are multiple conditions in there and we're expected to demonstrate compliance and that enables us to be a higher education institution on the register. If we don't, then we can't seek funding, we can't ask our students to access student loans. So there's quite a lot of heavily compliant requirements such as things around the Equality Act. So that's the equality, diversity and inclusion requirements within the uk. We also have our Counterterrorism and Security act within the uk, which we colloquially in institutions called prevent. And you may hear that it's prevent duty and that's about protecting around counterterrorism all the way through to good practice guidance. So if you ever joined a UK institution, it's like navigating compliance and regulatory expectations. But no, safeguarding is around protecting the interests of people, supporting people when there have been challenges around welfare, wellbeing, etc.

Craig Best [00:09:17]: And then just touching on that executive piece. So for Omoshi, the Omoshi exec are elected individuals. We all institutions can be members of Omoshi. So you pay to be a member and then annually people will then stand for election and that's a spread from the uk. So we have nations within the uk, so Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales and then in England there are about 10, I'm not 100% remember, but about 10 people that are elected, elected. We have a chair of vice chairs for the Organization for personal Professional Development and then you have an executive group. So I was fortunate to be elected two years ago and led two of the national conferences and then I stepped off because my role changed and I gained a broad arrayment as you, as you just said, my are ranges from student development and leadership all the way through to quality assurance admissions and your typical registration, immigration compliance. So my role was a very broad role, which I think you do.

Craig Best [00:10:21]: You find more in the uk, those typical teams are more dispersed.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:25]: Let's go back to OFS for a moment and talk about some of that regulatory information. Because that policy landscape in the UK is very different than the policy landscape in North America, whether it be Canada or the United States. And ofs, as far as I can conceptualize, it is a combination of the U.S. department of Education as well as the accrediting body that give US institutions their right to degree grant, basically, and then also in combination with state law in some aspects. So OFS is kind of the heavy hitter. But what are some of the biggest things that you're working with right now in terms of compliance when it Comes to making sure that student services are running smoothly at your institutions.

Craig Best [00:11:05]: Yeah. No. So in the uk, we've had quite a change in our regulatory environment. But you've absolutely articulated it well, Jo, is that, you know, we, as a higher education sector, we are influenced by the government, but we are independent. And I think that's what's really important for us. Most of the institutions in the UK have awarding powers, so we award our degrees as. As an institution. And that's previously been influenced by the Privy Council stats that the government approved that many, many years ago.

Craig Best [00:11:38]: And then as the Department of Education came into place under our Conservative government a number ago, what we ended up with, with something called the Office for Students, and that ultimately is our regulatory body. So they are responsible for the compliance to ensure that institutions are meeting in the best interests of students. So there was a Government act, so it went through Parliament and the OFS was set up. And as part of the ofs, there are many conditions and a lot of them focus on the good standing of an institution. So. So things around governance, ensuring finance is appropriate as well. But more importantly for student affairs and student services, it's around us ensuring the compliance around outcomes. So, you know, that cloakal thing in the UK is it's not just about getting students into the institution, it's about them succeeding and thriving and as being able to support them through their journey.

Craig Best [00:12:37]: So there are expectations around the student support. We provide them the access to learning resources all the way through to a condition that I spend quite a lot of time on, which is condition A1, which is our access and participation. And that's about ensuring that, regardless of a student's background, they can succeed. And we address barriers in their success. And that's talking about their continuing and studying. That could be around attainment, but it also could be about progressing post degree. So typically our degrees are free four years, and you choose at 18, typically 18, what degree you want to do. So you don't do minor or major in the uk, and that's quite a big ask for students to make a decision and then once they've done their degree, they typically go into employment.

Craig Best [00:13:29]: We don't necessarily have a big culture in the UK to go straight into postgraduate. What we talk is post there, so that's kind of how we look. But we've also introduced, recently the ofs have introduced something called their condition around sexual violence and harassment, which is a big thing for the sector at the moment. And that's about how do we protect the campus, what do we do in regards to when there are disclosures of sexual harassment or sexual violence and also things around freedom of speech and that. And that has been quite influential from what's been going on in the US and how do we ensure that balance of academic freedom and freedom of speech on campuses? So there's been quite a lot of new conditions or expectations that universities are tackling at the moment.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:16]: You mentioned that most university students are in your communities for three years, which is a different model than North America sees because that four year model gives a student development arc that's a bit more lengthened than what you're able to do in three years. But it also means that the three years that you do have those students every year has to be much more meaningful than if we had them over four. Can you tell us what the typical student services life cycle looks like for you for a student from admission through the day that they cross that graduation stage?

Craig Best [00:14:44]: Yeah, absolutely. So I think the big thing for universities in the UK is though we do see our students as soon as they register. So at the point in which they've had their applications accepted and they start. So we typically start in the September and that ranges from a couple of weeks across institutions. But a lot of us do work pre arrival so we work with 16 year olds plus on access work. So they could be about programs of supporting people together, get their qualifications or for those that have never been to university. So those first generation students, so let's have a look at what that is. And they support, we support them through the process of applying all the way into university.

Craig Best [00:15:28]: But typically the cycle is that we, we start in September. For a typical undergraduate they have normally two or three semesters. So the first semester, September to December and then we take the, the Christmas period off and then some students will have exams in the January, they'll start another semester between the January to the May March time and then they go into exams. So there's typically three semesters, some use two. But typically we run from a September to a June July time and that's their first year. And then if people are going on what we call internships or placements, they will either typically go in the June and July, either have a year out and go into employment, which is a big thing for like lots of universities in the UK or they'll go into their second year. What we are doing quite a lot is looking at that transition between that first year, you didn't know what university was, so we'll support you in and it's all new Everything from how do you deal with complaints, how do you get into clubs and societies? But what we find is that step between first year and second year, from an academic point of view, is sometimes quite a big step for students or they're going, is this the right thing? So we do quite a lot of work in the second year, typically. And then the third year of someone's degree is typically the semester period, but they have to write what we call a dissertation or a project work, if it's a typical undergraduate degree, and that's a prolonged portfolio of research and activity.

Craig Best [00:17:00]: And then sprinkled across all of that is all of the opportunities from getting involved in clubs and societies to volunteering, to mentoring opportunities, to career services. And a lot of that area at the University of Manchester sits within my purview. So I'm really fortunate to see some of the really fantastic work we do to nurture our students to predominantly lead in their lives and in globally businesses.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:27]: How is student services seen by the larger UK environment in terms of the value that it offers for students? And how do university colleagues see the value of student services?

Craig Best [00:17:39]: So I think that's a really interesting question and we've had a lot of debate in the sector recently around statutory duty. Is an institution responsible, responsible for the actions of their students? So when we talk about, unfortunately, suicide prevention and postvention, you know, what is our duty of care, you know, and that, that's a really big thing. So I think from a public point of view, there's a feeling that institutions should have more responsibility. And I think we, we perhaps say, yes, there is a responsibility, but these are adults that are engaging in a community and we are there to provide support. My view is student affairs, student services is absolutely the of institutions and we bring to life university strategy. We enable people to experience and live the lives and opportunities that they're wanting. So I think for me, where we see policy meets people is the best way I talk to my teams about it is the policy meets people where students potential is really nurtured and we provide the opportunities with and for students for them to achieve their goals. So I think we all see that, that, that work in that area and I think more broadly across our communities, we are seen as the bedrock of support.

Craig Best [00:18:59]: We are those people that perhaps don't always shout out about what we do, but are always there. And I think COVID Pandemic really brought attention to that quiet, reserved activity that we do in the background that really makes a difference, not just to students, students, but to the whole community equipping our academic colleagues to be able to engage with different groups of students. We're seeing an increase of neurodivergence, those are scaring disabilities and that that is a big learning curve to kind of approach curriculum and support. So no, I think public would like to see more of what we do and I think that's much more of a communication and kind of what can we support with linking in with the other health services, etc. But internally I do think we are seen as an absolute neighboring engine to supporting our students and staff.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:19:50]: I think this leads us nicely into our theme questions for the season on the value of student affairs. So I'm going to hit those three. The first is when you think about the value of student affairs, what comes to mind first and why?

Craig Best [00:20:02]: So I have to say that I am always biased is that I see student affairs as absolutely a number of institutions and before I even came into this I was very heavily in quality assurance and typical registry was like do they do. You know, they're running around doing these nice to do events and actually when you get immersed with it, they translate policy. It's where the meeting between the two kind of discussions happen. The reality of where they see students potential being nurtured. It's where you can see the success and the engagement work happening. You, you can see that we articulate different goals for our students who perhaps are not finding a space in their curriculum or learning, but they have found their space, their identity, their people within the support that we give. So I absolutely think we are an engine, the cogs of an institution. But I have to say I am biased on the brilliant work, particularly at the university.

Craig Best [00:21:01]: I am that we do.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:02]: I'm hearing a lot of alignment to the mission vision values of some Canadians in student affairs work as well. So that's nice to hear that the profession is spreading its wings no matter where we are.

Craig Best [00:21:12]: Absolutely. And I, and I do think there are and one thing that I found when I came to NASPA and there's a lot that we thought about, especially when I was at Moshe and we talk about it at the Academic Registrars Council, student affairs in the US is a lot more formalized and professionalized than in the uk. And even you and I talked about to be in roles that perhaps I have, you would need a doctorate degree and a PhD, and that's not necessarily the need in the UK, but I do think there's a shared skill and passion across the sectors of people that really care and really feel value in enabling and Supporting these individuals to grasp everything whilst they're there with us.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:52]: Which leads nicely into our second theme question. Can you share a specific story or moment when you saw the value of student affairs come to life?

Craig Best [00:21:59]: Life, absolutely. This is partly. It's sitting back and seeing this play out with the communities that work within our division. And I think one that really brought mine is I'm in an institution that's over 200 years old. It's an institution that has what we call high entries. So it'd probably be equivalent to the Ivy League institutions in the us We've always challenged with diversity, not because the doors are closed, it's because perhaps individuals don't see themselves in the community in which we work in. So I think last year what was really powerful me is that we, we launched something called the Black Leadership Program. And as part of that, we brought the students together and sitting and listening and hearing how students thrived during the program.

Craig Best [00:22:46]: By launching societies from securing internships and supporting each other, it really showed how targeted support and community building, it can really transform the potential of individuals. And for them to say, actually, I do have an identity, I do have a space in this organization, in this community. And for me it was just another really powerful reminder about the potential of our services. Thinking differently, that importance of creating opportunities for and with students to really lead, grow and shine and lead, grow and shine is something that I really feel quite passionate about. And so, yeah, that was probably one of my highlights over the last 12 months. And it takes a unique group of people to deliver programs like this. And it's a pleasure every day seeing these pilots, these little sparks play out and then being delivered with our students.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:39]: You mentioned earlier that much like North American Student affairs, uk, Student affairs has a lot of storytelling left to do in our communities. So for our third question, what do you think student affairs needs to do better to be understood and more seen in today's educational environment?

Craig Best [00:23:55]: Yeah, and I think you've just took my words out of my mouth. Is the storytelling. You know, we, for so long we have been the invisible engine or the perception of. We only go to them when there's an issue or there's a problem. And we being that sense of reactive support, where actually fundamentally our biggest impact is when we do the proactive engagement with our students. And absolutely, we have to have excellent services. We have to ensure that the infrastructure is in place for students to succeed and access health services and mental health support and financial support as well. But I do think what we need to do more is Be confident on what we do, telling the stories around our impact, linking to outcomes, aligning those to the goals of the institution.

Craig Best [00:24:44]: And we're talking at Manchester at the moment around service learning, community engagement. We are an institution within a regional context and our services provide such an impact to not just our students, but our community. So a lot of it is linked around storytelling. I don't think we're very good at champing our own selves and recognizing that, but I do think the pandemic was a real stepping stone to say, hang on a minute, these people are pretty core to what we do. And I think don't lose sight of that is the phrase I'll use with my teams.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:18]: You know, five years ago now that we were working with students remotely and figuring out how to get them Wi fi hotspots and food security and all those things. And I feel like we learned a lot from that. But I also agree with you that maybe we're losing sight of it a little bit.

Craig Best [00:25:30]: Yeah, no, definitely. And we're facing in the UK a massive cost of living. The cost of coming to university for students in the UK is significant. The access to student loans only provides a certain amount of that. We're seeing our students working much more, looking at different ways of studying, taking on part time work. So I do think there's an absolute core essential to how do we think about and really engage in those lived experiences of our students to say, well, actually this doesn't work for them anymore. And how do we. Not from a vanity point of view, but from a visibility point of view to say it's not a bad thing coming out and talking about the support you need.

Craig Best [00:26:09]: It doesn't have to be at the end, it can be very much at the beginning.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:13]: The student residence model is so different in the uk. A lot more privatized residences for students, a lot of students commuting living at home because of the housing crisis. Whereas at most North American universities we see, you know, housing that's provided on campus. And although there's of course a charge, the residence life system is internal to the institution, whereas it's mostly external in the uk, which changes your opportunity to engage with students in their residences. So lots of different things going on there.

Craig Best [00:26:40]: No, absolutely. We were only talking this morning about the changing dynamics of commuting students. You know, we're Talking roughly about 20, 25% of our students in Manchester, and we're a big city, are actually looking to commute because the cost of living in our city is becoming so much. It Costs more to perhaps have your child come and live in the city than the mortgage a parent or guardian is paying for their house. So, again, there's a lot there that's playing and. And it does impact the sense of community and identity. It really challenges us to say, how do we still ensure, when We've got over 40,000 students at MAN Manchester, how do we still ensure that sense of community when actually they don't all stay in halls anymore and we can't get the residence life teams involved?

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:28]: Absolutely. One thing that we talked about earlier was the admissions process, where students apply directly to a course. And so I wanted just to demystify that a little bit for our North American listeners as well. It's a very different system. We have something called ucas, which. I've said that with like the most American a possible ucas, which is UCAS or University College Admission is it system. Is that the S?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:51]: Yep.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:52]: Which is kind of like the common app in the United States. But instead of just being kind of a clearinghouse, there's actually decisions that are made through that process. And one thing that struck me as absolutely wild the first time I learned about it was that a student might not know where they're going to university until like a week or two before they're supposed to start courses, which stressed me out so badly. So can you talk a little bit about GCSEs and A levels, what those are, how they impact and how a student actually gets involved offer for their major or their course?

Craig Best [00:28:22]: Absolutely. So I'll talk in them all the general sense. So not our medical degrees, because they're slightly different if you're going into one of those courses. But GCSEs are what individuals take roughly about when they're 16 years old and it's their general certificate. And that basically is your. Predominantly, we focus on that maths, English and sciences and then broader subjects such as history. And the subjects there then influence what students would then do at what we would call their. Their 16 study.

Craig Best [00:28:53]: And they are typically things like what we call A levels, which are more traditional courses. So very similar to lessons, learning about something, pieces of essays and then doing. Doing the exam. And that's normally two years. So that's A levels. But we also have things called btec, which is much more practical. It doesn't mean it's a less qualification. And when they came in, that was the perceived rwits for those that are not as academically able.

Craig Best [00:29:19]: Absolutely not. BTEC will be more vocational courses like engineering, mechanics and there are other courses as well. And we will accept anything across the sector and internationally. Typically when you do, when you're 16, you then go into your secondary, that secondary study piece, and that's when you start thinking about university. And then you apply as you shared is through ucas. So you would typically select five programmes from different institutions or it could be all in one university university. And you've got to get that in for the January before the September. So January, February time is the deadlines roughly.

Craig Best [00:29:54]: So you submit your application to your five institutions or five courses, your personal statements. A student will need to write a personal statement. And then between that February, March time, all the way up until about July, you will be made offers from institutions and then you typically select your first offer so that first confirmed choice and then an insurance offer, the place you'll go to if actually your grades might not meet there at that time. That May, June, July time, you're also doing your exams for those, let's say A levels.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:26]: That sounds for advanced level, right?

Craig Best [00:30:29]: Yes, you have as and then A level. So your first year is as and then your second year is the A level. So it's like the top up piece. You don't get your result for your A levels. And this is the bit that suddenly worries people more globally than us is until about the 14th of August, and for us we start mid September. So students will not know where they are going until their A level results are released. And that day is quite a big day within the uk. And we then go into offering people who got their qualifications the grades we expected they'll get their offers and that might be then three weeks of confirming your accommodation, mapping everything out and that's if it goes well, if unfortunately you weren't successful with your grades or actually you've got really good grades and want to go somewhere else, you go into something called confirmation and clearing and that's where you contact institutions and see if there's any availability on our courses.

Craig Best [00:31:27]: And that is a really big part of our sector and particularly at the moment. So Manchester, we generally engage in it for about four or five days. And because we don't normally get quite a lot of offers or requests to come to us, but other institutions could be open to more applicants all the way up until to the registration point in September or even beyond. So yeah, a lot of our typically 18 year olds who have just got their grades about the 14th of August will hopefully know then where they're going. But they typically have about three weeks to confirm their finances, make sure They've got their accommodation and then they start studying with us. So a week after next at Manchester, about the 20th of September is when we will welcome our new students. About 6,000 students will be joining us. So yes, quite intense here.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:19]: Absolutely. And you also see students who, after their general certificates or GCSEs, they can elect to leave high school at that point, which is 16 in England. And so you might have a 16 year old student who is now trying to get that B tech, that technical certificate and do something else, or they might try to start working. So it's a bit of a different environment where instead of leaving at 18, you know, you might be leaving at 16.

Craig Best [00:32:42]: Yeah. And they typically go into play things like apprenticeships. So that's being able to go into paid employment in, in a profession, gaining experience whilst being paid. So yeah, it's very different model in the uk. And we've also got a big international community as well. That's a big thing for us. We have a very fixed fee for those that are from the UK, so we can't charge over, over about 9,525 or 45. But in regards to international students, all institutions can charge a fee that they feel is appropriate and therefore there are that playoff between our home students, as we recall, and our international students.

Craig Best [00:33:24]: And that can also be quite a challenge for the sector.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:27]: What advice would you give North American students who are trying to either study abroad or go full time in the uk? And then the inverse advice for UK students who are going to North America for the university experience?

Craig Best [00:33:39]: Yes. So I think for students considering to come to the uk, ask a lot of questions, get online, talk to people at an institution that you're particularly interested in. A lot of it is around how you feel within that community, what city you would like to go to, think about the broader experiences. And then the course obviously is important, but I think that's the really big piece that me. Because if you are 18, thinking to come to the UK you do have to make a choice, you have to be like, I'm going to study law, I'm going to study English. But I think being able to come over and do a semester. Absolutely. Seeing culture in a different way is really important.

Craig Best [00:34:22]: And I think for the UK students going to particularly the US is have your eyes open. It's absolutely different, but there's a lot to learn there. I think typically UK domiciled students don't necessarily engage in international activities as much as others because there's a perception it's better to be in the uk, that's the courses they are familiar with. But I do think for me would be get out, ask questions, get on social media, there's so much information out there, but find the place that fits for you. If the city or the community doesn't work for you, even if the course is great, it's not going to be the experience that you're looking for.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:59]: Can you talk a little bit about non traditional students in the UK and how you might access university if you're over 25 and wanted to take a different route?

Craig Best [00:35:07]: Yeah. So I think what's great about the university sector in the UK is there's so many different universities. So we have places like the Open University that deliver courses online part time, what we call stackable. So they can kind of do one unit drop off, come back again and that online piece really works for those that are not your typical 18 to 21 year olds and you see a lot of mature, we call them matures, anyone over 25 we be classed as a mature student. That's been the big thing with places like the Open University and other universities in the sector. Typically Manchester is a full time programs and that's where we currently are. That doesn't mean we're not looking at part time and courses that you can drop in and drop out of. But I do think it's finding the institutions that work for your lifestyle the way you want to study.

Craig Best [00:35:58]: But it is typically everybody for an undergraduate degree would go through ucas for postgraduate. So that's the, the what we would call the Level 7 qualifications. So the most detailed skills. There's a lot of opportunity there. Typically they aren't always full time. We're looking at what we call cpd so the professional development programs and I do think in the UK we have something called the lifelong learning entitlement. So that's something being driven by the government which basically says any individual under 60 gets allocated a loan pot that they could use and that doesn't have to always be your three year traditional course. So can you, you don't just apply for that 9,000, you could spend £2,000 on a unit or some credits at one place and then go somewhere else.

Craig Best [00:36:45]: So there's a lot more opportunities coming up over the next few years for those that are post 25.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:51]: Greg, anything else that you'd love our listeners to know or learn about UK student services?

Craig Best [00:36:56]: So I think the one thing that it came out from when I went to naspa, while I absolutely really respect, respected and found in awe was this ability to formalize and professionalize the activities that are being delivered and that desire to research and enhance the expertise in practice blew me away and inspired me to go off and do my own research in there. What I think I reflect on that that is something that listeners could think about is how the UK looks at the spread of those divisions and activities. We aren't just contained into one area, we are spread spread across student affairs, academic affairs, enrollment and making those connections on how different services hand off or engage, I think is the bit that I would really recommend listeners to hear because understanding how outreach and access pre arrival feeds into financial support and then all the way through to the curriculum development really enhances our colleagues in the uk. Does it make it easier to because you can't be an expert in everything, but you do get a very rounded view on the experience of our learners.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:09]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:38:15]: Thanks Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world and there's a ton of things happening in naspa. As you heard in last week's episode, one of the big updates that has happened on the NASPA website is that we have a brand new new Policy Hub on the NASPA website. The Policy Hub is an amazing resource for you to be able to stay on top of things that are happening across the United States that impact higher education in many different ways on the NASPA website. If you go under Key Initiatives and click on Policy Resource Hub, you will find this valuable resource. The Hub consists of a compilation of policy research, coalition work and resources from naspa, other associations, nonprofit organizations and think tanks with expertise in various areas of higher education. This hub is based on input from staff, organizational partners and members. And through this, NASPA has curated this centralized resource to include policy trackers, articles, fact sheets, legislative summaries and informational videos that I outline state and federal legislative and policy changes for student affairs professionals.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:39:28]: This resource is only available to current NASPA members. So as I said, this is an amazing resource that will help you to be able to stay on top of things and see the relevance of these changes in the work that you're doing on a daily basis. I highly encourage you to check it out for yourself and take advantage of this this amazing resource The European Conference for Student affairs and Services is coming up November 12th through 14th in Porto, Portugal. This is the seventh annual European conferences for Student affairs and Services and it's co hosted by NASPA and Ayuka in Porto, Portugal. The European Conferences for Student affairs and Services gives student services professionals a platform to discuss innovative programs, practices, practices, models and trends in student affairs. All student affairs professionals are invited to join others in Porto, Portugal for an amazing opportunity to learn and grow from people around the world. If this professional development opportunity sounds like something that you want to take advantage of, Remember it is November 12th through 14th in Porto, Portugal and you can find out more on the NASPA website. There's a brand new issue of the Journal of Women and Gender in Higher Education that's now available for for NASA members, this journal publishes scholarship that centers around gender based experiences of students, faculty and staff while examining oppression including but not limited to patriarchy, sexism, trans oppression and CIS normativity as they intersect with other systems of domination.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:41:05]: The journal is particularly interested in manuscripts that not only focus on gender based on a gender based group, but also also critically interrogate the ways in which gender has been used as a construct to limit opportunities to shape outcomes and experiences. The journal publishes high quality and rigorous scholarship can be used by all of you, can be used by you in the work that you're doing on a daily basis. You can access this journal as a part of your membership in NASPA by going to the NASPA website under Publications. Click on Journal Journals and you can access the journal there. Every week we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways. Because the association is as strong as its members and for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with the knowledge community, giving back within one of the centers or the divisions of the Association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself where do you fit? Where do you want to give back each week.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:42:19]: We're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community, I see myself doing something like that, or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in naspa.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:04]: Chris, thank you so much as always, for bringing us all the news about what's going on in and around naspa. And, Craig, we've reached our Lightning Round. I've got our traditional seven lightning round questions for you in about 90 seconds. Ready to rock?

Craig Best [00:43:19]: I am. Ready to go.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:20]: All right, number one, if you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

Craig Best [00:43:25]: Simply the best, because my surname's Best Classic.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:28]: I love it. Number two, when you were five years old, what did you want to be when you grew up?

Craig Best [00:43:32]: I wanted to be a policeman.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:34]: Number three, who's your most influential professional mentor?

Craig Best [00:43:37]: I would say someone called April McMahon, who's our previous Vice President for Teaching and Learning at the University of Manchester. She's just set down, but she is absolutely inspirational.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:48]: Number four, your essential student affairs read.

Craig Best [00:43:50]: In the uk, that would be wonky. So that's wonk H e at number.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:54]: Five, the best TV show. You've been binging late lately.

Craig Best [00:43:57]: Me and my partner are currently obsessed with Wednesday on Netflix.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:44:01]: Number six, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

Craig Best [00:44:04]: That's really interesting. I would say it would be Stories of a CEO. I listened to quite a lot of audibles, so John Boyne is my audible, but Stories of CEO.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:44:16]: And finally, any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional?

Craig Best [00:44:19]: I would say massive shout out to anyone that is heading off to the NASCAR conference that is from an international institution. It is an absolutely brilliant opportunity to engage in wider conversations and personal shout out will be to my partner who tolerates everything I do. So huge shout out to Sam, who works in mental health but within our social services in the uk.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:44:42]: And if you're interested in a conference this fall, in November, the NASPA International Symposium will be taking place in Portugal. So if your institution has travel budget to allow you to do something a little bit different, or if you want to learn about student services that are less US centric, it's a really great opportunity to head to a warmer climate in November. Craig, it's been an absolutely educational conversation with you today. I love learning from you and I hope our listeners did as well. If they would like to reach you, how can they find you?

Craig Best [00:45:09]: So I would say just drop me a message on LinkedIn. So it's Craig Best, or you can send me an email at. Craig Bestanchester ac.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:19]: Craig, thank you so much for sharing your voice with us today.

Craig Best [00:45:22]: Yeah, thank you so much Jill. It's been an absolute pleasure and thank you for your interest. Invite.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:30]: This has been an episode of Essay Voices from the Field brought to you by naspa. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to be so grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email us@sa voicesaspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for Dr. Jill L. Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your top and guest suggestions always. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a five star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you're listening now.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:00]: It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton. That's me, produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan, Flint. Your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

If you're searching for inspiration and actionable insights on leadership in higher education, you'll want to tune in to the latest episode featuring Dr. Jhenai Chandler, hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton. This engaging conversation shines a light on the complexity of change management and the importance of authentic leadership through times of uncertainty.

One major theme that emerges from their discussion is the necessity of adaptability in the ever-evolving landscape of student affairs. Dr. Chandler shares her personal experiences navigating institutional shifts, emphasizing that flexibility and open communication are key to both individual growth and organizational success. She discusses how leaders who prioritize empathy and transparency foster environments where innovation isn't just encouraged—it thrives.

Another powerful topic is the need for intentional mentorship and community-building. Dr. Chandler highlights how finding and being a mentor can propel professional development in meaningful ways. She stresses that mentorship doesn't have to be formalized; often, those small, consistent connections spark the greatest impact. Listeners are reminded that building a supportive professional network sharpens resilience, especially when facing challenges unique to the higher education sector.

The conversation doesn't shy away from discussing the personal side of leadership either. Dr. Chandler is candid about the importance of self-care and boundary-setting, particularly for those who often take on invisible labor within their institutions. She encourages embracing humanity within the professional sphere—celebrating wins, learning from setbacks, and bringing your whole self to work.

Rounding out the episode, the hosts and Dr. Chandler offer practical advice for emerging leaders. They underscore the value of continual learning and the importance of staying true to your values, even amidst external pressures. From candid anecdotes to strategic insights, this episode is packed with wisdom that will resonate with higher education professionals at every stage of their journey.

If you're ready to be inspired and energized, don't miss this insightful episode! The perspectives shared by Dr. Chandler, and Dr. Creighton, will leave you with actionable strategies and a renewed sense of purpose. Whether you're a seasoned administrator or just starting your career, this dynamic conversation is sure to spark new ideas and meaningful reflection.

Tune in and join the dialogue today!

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:02]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts brought to you by naspa. We curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you happen to be. This is season 13 on the value of student affairs. I'm Dr. Jill Creighton. She her hers your essay Voices from the Field Host welcome to season 13 of SA Voices from the Field. This season is on the Value of Student affairs and I'm thrilled to open this season with Dr. Janae Chandler, who currently serves as the Vice President of Research and Policy for Student Affairs Administrators in Higher Education.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:42]: That's us. Here at naspa, she's leading efforts to advance student success and equity through research driven policies. Previously, Dr. Chandler was Senior Director of College Completion Policy at TCUS, or the Institute for College Access and Success, where she oversaw the organization's advocacy and policy strategy aimed at improving college completion rates. Her work focused on enhancing institutional capacity to support student success, collaborating with state and federal policymakers, industry leaders and researchers to promote policies that advance equity in higher ed. Before joining TCUS, Dr. Chandler was a leader of Post Secondary Transitions at Education Strategy Group, where she worked with state and regional policymakers to improve advising practices, early post secondary opportunities, and mathematics pathways. She also led business development in college and career advising, ensuring that advising systems address the holistic needs of all students.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:30]: As the Inaugural Director of the Florida Caribbean Louis Stokes Regional center of Excellence, Dr. Chandler conducted research to assess the impact of growth mindset interventions on STEM student success. Dr. Chandler began her career in advising at Tallahassee Community College, later holding leadership roles with both the Florida College System and the State University system. As a first gen college graduate and former parenting student, she's deeply committed to improving access to higher education and creating support systems that promote the success of diverse student populations. Dr. Chan Chandler holds an Associate of Arts degree from Florida A and M University, a Bachelor of Science in Food and Nutrition Sciences, a Master of Science in Leadership from nova, a Master of Science in Leadership from NOVA Southeastern university, and a PhD in higher education Policy from Florida State University. Janae, welcome to Essay Voices.

Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:02:19]: Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:22]: It is season 13, the value of the Student affairs profession. I can't think of a better time to be having this conversation and for our NASPA squad to be meeting you. You've been with NASP. I think it's just about a year now.

Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:02:34]: Yeah, August 19th made a year. So I just hit my what we call NASPiversary Happy NASPiversary. Yes, yes. It was a great day and I'm really proud to be a part of this association in supporting the professionals who just are doing phenomenal work, phenomenal work on campuses across the.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:53]: You are one of our newest, I think actually the newest executive team member for NASPA on staff serving in the role of VP for policy and advocacy and research, taking over Amelia Parnell' old seat actually. So we know that you're working really hard to fill those shoes at a really challenging policy time. Can you tell us a little bit about how you got to naspa?

Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:03:15]: Yes. So I got to naspa. Really. I call it like a shoot my shot moment to be quite honest. I worked at TCAS as the Senior director for College Completion Policy where I oversaw all of this federal advocacy work related to college completion. And I work with members of Congress to work on designing and implementing federal policies that thought about the holistic needs of students. And even though I wasn't from the traditional federal policy landscape, one value that I brought to that work is I always thought about the practitioner. I always thought about their voices are missing in this work.

Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:03:52]: We're designing things and we're not thinking about how this looks on campus or how students experience it. And so I was very proud to be a bridge between the practitioner and the policymaker. And so when I saw this opportunity come up at naspa, I thought it would just be a phenomenon, phenomenal experience to work with student affairs professionals and now bringing policy to our environment a little bit more and helping us be forward thinking about how we get to inform and shape policy. And so that decision, I didn't know what the climate was going to be. I didn't realize what we were going to be experiencing in 2025. But it really affirms my decision to come to NASPA. And I remember being at tables on campuses and being a part of policy conversations and not feel feeling equipped or empowered enough to engage. And that's what I want to dismantle.

Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:04:46]: I want student affairs professionals to be able to engage in policy conversations and research conversations. And so I'm really excited to build our members toolkit more in these arenas.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:57]: You mentioned you come from TCUs. Can you tell us a little bit about what that is and what TICUS does for higher ed? I believe it stands for the Institute for College Access and Success.

Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:05:07]: Yes, correct. And so in the policy arena you'll have intermediaries or research think takes that really dive deep into research on particular topics. They are also a primary resource for state and federal policymakers and staffers to get information from. And we also provided a lot of advocacy through webinars, publications, obviously scholarly engagement. And so it was really an organization to shape the policy field around higher education and advancing equity and access for students and institutions.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:41]: That background is going to be so valuable for naspa, especially as we're facing a really unique policy environment right now. I know it's kind of difficult to say, given that the policy world is what I would call a bit kind of unstable almost at the moment. What are we doing at NASPA right now? And I say that internally as a member of the Public Policy Division, but also as a person who's just kind of a bit of a policy nerd and knowing that we're seeing funky impacts that we didn't necessarily see even a year ago.

Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:06:09]: I'm so proud to say that our team has gone all in on policy research right now. We have stayed tuned in to all of the happenings. We have trackers, State Policy Trackers, Federal Policy Trackers, and we've made that all available to NASPA members for free. And we've created a centralized Policy Resource hub where members can review breakdowns and policy analyses about what's happening in the landscape and what it means for them in their roles and for their campuses. And so we have invested a ton of resources and time to make sure that NASPA members have real time, current, relevant and accurate information, which the accurate part for me is so valuable and important because there's so much noise and it's coming from so many places, you have no idea what source to trust. But I believe NASPA is a trusted source for not just NASPA members, but the broader higher education field. And so I'm really excited to partner with the Public Policy Division to host events. We've had a number of briefings related to the first 100 days phase of this new administration.

Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:07:16]: We've done follow ups related to the different SCOTUS decisions that have rolled out. And so I want our members to know that we're continuing to do high quality research about how to best support our students, while we're also investing a lot of our time and energy on policy research as well and providing tools and resources. And so those updates can be found in our weekly update. So scroll past some of the things that you might not want to attend and just pay attention to the policy update. We try to include something every week. And we also have the Policy Hub, which you can Access online from naspa.org under Key Initiatives.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:54]: I think one of the things that's important for our NASPA members to understand is that NASPA isn't at the moment making policy stances so much as it is trying to figure out and help us navigate what to do with the policies that are coming down. And that's an interesting place because we've historically advocated in some ways or been trying to work with the Department, that means the Department of Education historically. And because the landscape is different, I think right now we're focusing on, okay, so these policies have happened, now what do we do about them? Because as a lot of us are public servants and so we're in a position where we are trying to implement as public administrators rather than kind of change things differently. It's kind of an interesting space for us to be in and maybe different than one that we're used to being in.

Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:08:38]: Yeah, and my approach has been action oriented. We can sign it, we can put out statements and like say that we are upset about something. But I want you to to read a statement or read something and say, I'm getting strategy out of it. I'm getting tools to be able to do my job better within this current landscape. And so although NASPA is not putting out traditional statements in this time, what we are doing is we're actively engaged in coalitions. So there are a number of policy coalitions. And this might be a really cool teachable moment right now for our listeners because what they don't teach you in the Schoolhouse Rock version of like policy development is that they're players in coalition coalition. So like TCUS was a part of a coalition and IHEP Institute for Higher Education Policy, naspa, all of the associations, some of those intermediaries and think tanks, we come together and we think about how to collectively push Congress, how to collectively take action on some sort of issue that's coming up in the field.

Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:09:39]: So we're actively engaged in a number of coalitions. So when you see today's student coalition and they're talking about college affordability and student basic needs, NASA is a part of that. And we sign on to coalition letters. And so you can find the coalition letters that NASPA has signed on to recently on naspa.org under our policy section. And so we are committed to action oriented advocacy in that way. For instance, we are working with our partners at the Fair Election Center. So I don't know if many people realize, but NASPA also is a partner in the Voter Friendly Campus Initiative and we help institutions prepare students for civic engagement. And obviously there's been new guidance around how federal work studies should no longer be used for those types of opportunities.

Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:10:29]: And so we're currently putting out a statement on how this is disappointing and it goes against everything that higher education is about when it comes to student development. However, within that same document, here are resources on how you can continue to help your students engage in different civic opportunities. Here are funding opportunities, things of that nature. I want people to have tools to be actionable and impactful.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:55]: I really appreciate this approach because it's one thing to say, here's the perspective that we're bringing, but it's a whole other to say here's what you can do about it.

Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:11:02]: I really want folks to know what to do about it. Because think about it, we're also impacted personally by everything that's happening. And it's overwhelming. It's like sometimes I have to turn off the news as a mom of children who have to navigate this space, and it's like I don't know what to do sometimes. And so I want to make sure that we can help be a filter in a funnel for our members in.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:25]: The field and fully acknowledging that a lot of us feel some type of way about a lot of these changes. But some of those feelings are positive, some of them are fearful, some of them are frustrated. We're kind of all over the map as a profession as to how we're receiving all of these changes. But I did want to ask you what's kind of that hot button issue that you see coming forward from the Hill right now? Because we've gone through waves and iterations of it being Title IX or it being federal financial aid or EDI initiatives, what have you. The list has been long and the waves have come pretty quickly. What are we seeing now on the horizon?

Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:11:59]: I'm paying attention to all of it. But my immediate reaction is if we cannot address college affordability, we may not have students on our campuses. So I am very sensitive to the implications of, do I have to say it? The one big beautiful bill. There's so much in there around federal financial aid that I'm concerned for students who, who I share similar backgrounds with, who I was a Pell student, I came from a low income area and federal financial aid was the way for me, plus scholarships, because Pell is not enough. But there are some new rollouts on how the order in which aid can be applied. And so I also think about the student loan repayment restructures that's happening in there. And so for some of us who go into nonprofit work, or who work on campuses, this can create challenge. Can I do my purpose work and pay my bills and pay my student loans? And so I'm again concerned about the field and what these implications may mean for many student affairs professionals, educators, just across the board.

Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:13:03]: There's no protection if you lose your job. There's some hardship things that are included in that package that will have real implications for people. And so I really think about the root, which is the college affordability piece right now, because we need to have students on our campuses and in our classrooms, but if they can't afford to be there, some of us may not be around. I don't mean to be so stark about it, but it's just a real reality of although we're not student affairs professionals, we also have to pay attention to college affordability because even if a student gets onto our campus, they will experience other financial hardships or unexpected emergencies where we may lose them. And so it all ties into retention and student success.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:45]: You mentioned a couple of things related to college affordability in terms of the layering of the application of federal financial aid and student loans and parent plus loans and those types of things. But the student loan forgiveness repayment plans that a lot of student affairs professionals are frankly relying on in order to stay in the field. Do you have any commentary or brief education that you can give us in these areas?

Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:14:08]: As of right now, I've encouraged people who I've come in contact with to document, document, document. This is another issue that we're having with the reduction in force, is that the customer service is a challenge right now. There's not clarity on what, what the next steps are or what are the policies and procedures to get to PSLF and to make sure that when is your time that you're able to get the credit for the time that you are owed or allowed based on your years of experience. And even within my household, I'll just go personally, two public servants, two different levels of correspondence right now about it. And so there's just no clarity. And so if you can do your best to document and keep track of your records, I think it's really important. And I've just really been paying attention to the small attacks to pslf. And so just stay current on what's happening and continue to document and submit your employment verification as often as possible.

Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:15:08]: That's what I'm trying to do.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:09]: And PSLF is Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program, a hard acronym for me to say for some reason. So in my head, always I have to say, pumpkin Spice Latte forgiveness and it's so fun fact for our listeners to me with Pumpkin Spice latte Forgive me. I love that it's a heavy topic, right, Because a lot of people's futures are going to be dictated by what guidance comes out around PSLF and what will be counted towards service and what won't. We'd like to strongly believe that if you're providing public service to a university that you know, it's a pretty clearly within the guidelines of forgiveness or if you're working at 501c3 nonprofit organization. But because of that lack of clarity, all we can do right now is make sure that our documents are all aligned, right?

Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:15:51]: Absolutely. And a lot of the changes that we seen proposed in let's say the one big beautiful bill again, NASPA has also signed on to a coalition letter calling for more capacity at the department to be able to carry out these things. And we're also in support of saying let's pause on implementation until we can give clarity to the students, families as well as the institutions who are being implicated in these particular changes. But like right now, it's just a lack of clarity. But we have been very vocal in calling out for a need for greater capacity and time for clarity.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:16:26]: Let's also visit that component about the layering of how federal aid is applied. What can you teach us there?

Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:16:31]: Goodness. What I will say is this financial aid does a phenomenal job at making sure students are able to maximize their awards and students have been able to cover textbooks, housing, other approved expenses so that they can remain in college and enrolled. And so some of the new shifts and changes, it may not give students the best reach with their financial aid packages or their scholarship. And so I think about my personal experience. My kid went to on campus childcare that was tacked onto my bill every semester. And I don't know if a student in my situation now or with a new policy will be able to afford tuition as well as on campus childcare.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:16]: One thing that we introduced you with was that you're a formerly parenting student, meaning that you had a young child while you were attending full time university. Can you talk to us about how student affairs impacted your journey given that you were juggling these two very intensive roles?

Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:17:30]: Oh my gosh, yes. It's student parent month too in September. And so this is a really great question and I was sharing with you earlier. I've just been really emotional this month reading all of the new briefs and reports around student parenting month because that very kid is now applying to Colleges, and it's so exciting. And none of that would have been possible without Student Affairs. I was able to work on campus and I did not have federal work study. I had an actual job on campus. And that is what Student affairs is about.

Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:18:02]: It's like seeing the need having structures in place to make sure students are successful. And so I was on my way to going to be a scientist. And working in advising was transformative for me. It was the strangest job because I was the formal advisor for my peers and I was trusted. I was trusted with data. I was FERPA trained, all of the things. And it catapulted my career in a way that I couldn't imagine. And I was able to make a difference based on my experience.

Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:18:32]: I was able to say, childcare closes at 4:30, the organic chemistry 2 lab starts at 4. There's no way I could make that. And then having to navigate different challenges to finish my degree, to take that course at the local community college. But Student affairs positioned me to be able to work on campus, not have to drive across town to go to daycare, drop off, go to work, go to class. I was also supported when I had tough times, when I was just emotionally drained, when I was exhausted, there were people on campus who I could go to for whether it was mental health support, whether it was counseling, or just to open their fridge and get a snack, because I just needed a moment. And I did that for my students when the tables were turned. But that would not have been possible if we did not have access to high quality and affordable childcare that was offered through Florida State University's Office of Housing and Residential Life.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:19:29]: I think this transitions us nicely into our theme questions for the season. And like our previous seasons, we've got three questions on the theme of on the value of Student affairs and I am pleased to introduce those now. So, Janae, our first question for the season is when you think about the value of Student affairs, what comes to mind first and why?

Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:19:49]: When I think about the value of Student affairs, the first thing that comes to mind is how it shapes the student experience beyond the classroom. As someone from the inner city in Jersey City, New Jersey, I didn't really travel much. A lot of my exposure came through the out of classrooms experiences that Student affairs offered. It's where I got to meet people from different states, or even I met people from New Jersey that were from different areas. And that was pretty cool for me as well. Sociology talks about like social norms in the classroom, but I was able to apply it in different settings, as I met people through campus recreation and different ways that I engaged on campus. And so whether it's learning to lead through different leadership programs, building community, and, like, just figuring out how to navigate life, that's what student affairs does. And a lot of those traits that you learn from those experiences are what employers want.

Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:20:43]: They want someone who's collaborative, that knows how to work with people from different backgrounds, who can foster community in the workplace, particularly now in, like, a virtual environment. Can you lead a team? Can you navigate conflict? Those are all things that I learned through various programs and opportunities. And it's also what I see right now happening. And so we just have to do a better job of quantifying that with data and showing how these connect to employer expectations.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:13]: So, going to our second question, can you share a specific story or moment when you saw the value of student affairs come to life?

Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:21:20]: I really, again, think about my personal experience and how the student affairs professionals helped me navigate my academic challenges and my personal challenges or circumstance that I was navigating. Because of their support and their help, my sister was able to go to college. My husband was able to graduate college. During that time, he was a student parent as well at the local community college. My mom just went to community college during the pandemic and is now a successful nurse. So the work that was invested in me, me help change a family dynamic. And so I think about the student affairs professionals at community colleges, which is where my background is. I spent most of my higher education professional work at community colleges, and that's where I see the magic happen as well.

Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:22:10]: Those students come from diverse backgrounds, diverse academic levels, different challenges, different lived experiences, but they're driven and their worlds could be shifted based on the interactions with campus staff and administrators. But I always see student affairs professionals wrap their their arms around them and support them in ways that's just transformative, similarly to my story. And so when I see people show up on a community college campus and they take advantage of all of the support, and then their life stories are changed, like, that's just where student affairs just lights up my heart. And the impact is just undeniable.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:49]: I think for a long time, the student affairs profession has kind of pejoratively said, my own parent doesn't understand what I do for work. And I think that is still true across a lot of college campuses with our colleagues. And so our third question for the season's theme is, what do you think student affairs needs to do better to be understood and better seen in today's educational environment.

Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:23:10]: We have got to do a better job of telling our story and telling our story in a way that resonates with the public, that resonates with the folks at home at the kitchen table. And we were very smart, we're very bright people. We're into scholarship. But we have to be able to talk directly to the students and the families that we need on our campuses and that we want to support. But we also have to be able to translate our language and what we're trying to articulate to employers, to policymakers so that they can understand the value of student affairs in higher education. And so that's why I love coming from the outside into nasp is because I can help translate what we're trying to communicate in a way that resonates with policymakers and uses their language. And so you know how we talk about code switching, we have to learn how to code switch around our communication. When we're doing a scholarly paper, that's one thing, do that.

Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:24:08]: But now that you're talking in front of a policymaker, you need to be quick, succinct, and to the point, right? And when you're talking to students and families and communities, we need to be able to articulate why what we do matters. And so the communication is one piece. The other piece is, again, the data and assessment to be able to tell our story and share the value. I think that is so critical because if you think about it, when you go shopping for, like, an appliance, you're like, which one is most efficient on energy? Which machine is going to stretch my laundry detergent a little bit more? Right? Like, you want the most most for your time and that investment that you're going to make. And so we have to do the same thing. We offer these programs. Here's what the outcomes are for the students who engage in this program. Our employer partnerships have led to X, Y and Z.

Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:24:59]: Like, we need to be able to do that a little bit more. But for the most part, we've been people who do this work because we love it and we enjoy it, and that's great. But it's like, now we have to make sure we have to do the assessment to be able to tell our story and also not be afraid of what the data may tell us. So sometimes I think we avoid assessment in data collection because we're a little afraid of what it might tell us. But it's an opportunity. It's not a ding. It's an opportunity for enhancement, improvement, to be able to reallocate resources into something that's working for us. And so that's what I would say.

Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:25:36]: Data collection and telling our story in a way that resonates with all audiences.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:41]: You mentioned, you know, being able to bring the perspective of coming from the outside in. Is there any language that we use internally in student affairs that you think that we could frame differently for the outside world to help us be better understood, or any pro tips on making that switch from understanding ourselves internally to being able to share that more outward facing?

Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:26:00]: There's a lot there. There's a lot of opportunity. There's a lot of opportunity. But I think it's the venue, it's the venues that we use to advertise, to market and to communicate and to share information. One of the things that I prioritized in my time at T is was to get with faculty. Like, if I read a journal article and I'm like, wow, these are amazing outcomes from this study. I would make sure I took their report with them, collaborated with them, turned it into a policy brief with, as recommendations for, like, policymakers. And so it's just making sure that we get the information that we know.

Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:26:36]: We know a lot about our field, we know a lot about our students, but we're talking to each other. And so how do we make sure that we're using different venues and platforms to be able to communicate our work? So, essentially, if you're doing a lot of quality research and you're published in journals, that's great. Continue to do those things because it's necessary. But make sure you have a strategy on how you are going to maybe get this into the campus paper first, maybe, right. And then next get it into the local paper, maybe diverse issues in higher ed. Just making sure that you're thinking outside of the box of where to share our insight to be able to shape and move the field. And so to me, that would be my number one recommendation, is to make sure that whatever you're doing from a scholarly, scholarly perspective that is translated in different venues and platforms that different audiences are viewing. And so this podcast, for an example, is one that a family could listen to and learn about student affairs in a way that's just simple and clear.

Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:27:34]: And we could do that from our work and our research too.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:37]: Anything that you're researching right now that.

Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:27:38]: You want to highlight, we're doing so many cool things. I'll share a few things. Some professional, some personal. So professionally at naspa, what we're doing is we're looking at college affordability in a sense of emergency aid, student employment, working with some potential partners on student financial wellness and how we can equip institutions to help students think about their financial health and well being. We just partnered with TIAA to award five institutions micro grants to be able to give students $500 if they experience an unexpected emergency. So we want to be able to continue to work to help students face the financial challenges to persist through their college. I'm also intrigued by this concept of secondary stress. A number of NASA members have already published articles about it and again I'm looking to like contact them and work with them on like how to do briefs and have different work around it.

Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:28:36]: Because right now, and I've talked, we talked about this earlier in the podcast around how the weight of the environment is impacting us personally and we still have to show up for work, but then we also have to engage with students on the challenges that they're experiencing. So how do we help not only the staff navigate navigate secondary stress, but how do we help VPs and leaders identify it early and have preventative measures in place so that staff can be supported before burnout? So I'm really intrigued by that personally. I have just started doing some blogging and videos, vlogging I guess, content videos. I'm new to the whole TikTok world, but about my parenting journey with autism and so being able to help families and moms who have children with autism to give them some hope. We're 12 and a half years into that journey and so it's really cool to like look at new studies, look at new research and practices and kind of connect them to what our lived experience was and just sharing that out for for the world and for moms. Really?

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:41]: Are you willing to share your TikTok handle?

Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:29:43]: Yeah, it's called Reclaiming My Stride. All one word. Reclaiming my stride. Stride because I'm a runner.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:48]: Janae, is there anything else you'd like our NASPA membership to know about you as you've just passed your one year NASPiversary?

Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:29:54]: I am here to really support NASPA and NASA members with current research, high quality research policy work to empower them to do their jobs to the best of their ability, to support their students in a way that's meaningful and purposeful. I want each NASA member and every listener who's out on the field to know that I am here to support them. Deeply appreciative and full of gratitude for this field because I have personally been impacted. My family has benefited as well and so whatever it is that I can do from my sphere of influence in my area of expertise. I would love to hear from them about that again. I have continuously made sure Practitioner Voice was centered in my work and that's something that I want to continue. And I'm just so excited to be here. It's just been a great organization.

Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:30:48]: And I will also say one thing that's different about NASA that I haven't experienced in a lot of other places. Well, this is my first membership association too though, so maybe that's what it is. But NASA prioritizes members like, I mean to the point where I used to say like what is happening right now, but it's really like what our members would need, what our members would think, what our members like. It is unreal. Like, I mean it's real because it happens, but it's something that I have not seen a lot in different avenues or arenas is like really caring about its members. And NASPA does that. And I really feel good to be at a place that prioritizes their members and what's best for them. And so I'm really, really excited to be here.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:31]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:37]: Hey Joe, thanks so much. Welcome back to the NASPA world. And there's a ton of things happening, happening in naspa. One of the biggest things right now that I want you to do is put on your calendar October 1st. The annual conference registration and housing will be open on October 1st. You don't want to miss out on the best prices as well as the hotels that are closest to all the action. So you want to be able to get into the members only hub and be able to register for the conference, register for housing and be ready for an amazing time this coming spring. The 2026 NASPA elections are open and nominations are due on October 22, 2025.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:18]: Currently, nominations are open for Board Chair Elect, Regional Directors elect and Knowledge Community Chair and Co Chair elect positions. You can follow the nomination process and candidate selection online and as a member of naspa, you'll be invited to participate in the election that will Open open on January 14th. I encourage you if you are looking to take that next step in considering how you want to lead within the association, to consider running for a position and be able to nominate yourself or others for positions because we need volunteer leaders to be able to help our association to grow and thrive in the future. I'm going to tell you about a new book available in the NASPA Publication section on the NASPA website called Small and Mighty Student affairs at Small Colleges and Universities by Carolyn Livingston, Krista Porter and Thomas Shanley Small and Mighty Student affairs at Small Colleges and Universities explores critical opportunities and challenges at higher education institutions with fewer than 5,000 students. Written by a diverse group of seasoned campus leaders, this comprehensive text covers a range of topics relevant to higher education and student affairs while providing detailed insights and actions to take for, in support of and alongside students at small colleges and universities. Thriving in the small college culture requires flexibility, collaboration and the ability to shift rapidly within the changing environment of higher education. Small and Mighty offers thoughtful strategies and insights to help student affairs professionals identify innovative solutions to some of the most pressing issues facing small colleges and universities. You can find out more on the NASPA website.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:08]: The 2026 NASPA Excellence Awards are also open and nominations close on October 1, 2025. Through the NASPA Excellence Award, you can recognize the professionals transforming higher education through exceptional programs, innovative services, and effective administration. NASPA Excellence Awards cover 12 categories crucial to the growth of the profession. You can nominate a colleague or two your colleagues for an excellent award today. You can go to the NASPA website for more information. Every week we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways. Because the association is as strong as its members and for all of us, we have to find our place within the association.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:59]: Whether it's it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself where do you fit, where do you want to give back? Each week we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community, I see myself doing something like that, or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in naspa.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:02]: Chris, thank you so much for bringing us back to our very first NASPA World segment of the season. Always great to get the update on what's going on in and around naspa and Janae, we have reached our lightning round. I have seven questions for you in about 90 seconds. Are you ready?

Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:36:18]: Ooh. Okay.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:19]: All right, question number one. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:36:24]: I don't know the title of the song, but it's gonna feel like the man when I walk through. I think it's like Rich Homie Kwan.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:30]: Number two, when you were five years old, what did you want to be when you grew up?

Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:36:34]: A business owner.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:35]: Number three, who's your most influential professional mentor?

Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:36:38]: One that I know because I have a lot in my head. I would say. Okay, okay, okay, okay. So I actually follow, like, CEOs and presidents online of different companies, and I use them as my mentors.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:51]: Number four, your essential Student affairs read.

Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:36:54]: The Green book, the Student Development Theory book. I call it my Student affairs Bible, Student Development in College Theory, Research and Practice.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:01]: We've had that as a lot of people's Essential Student affairs read. And for those listening, Janae just pulled it right off the shelf. It's great. Number five, the best TV show you've.

Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:37:09]: Binged lately, forever on Netflix.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:12]: Number six, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:37:16]: Definitely Mel Robbins.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:17]: And finally, number seven, any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional?

Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:37:21]: My family, my husband and my kids, they're so supportive. This role requires a lot of time and travel, and they've just been great at being support and just playing their part. Oh, definitely. My family.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:33]: Janae, it's been such a pleasure to get to know you a bit better and to introduce you to our NASPA membership. If anyone would like to get ahold of you after this episode airs, how can they find you?

Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:37:43]: Jchandlerspa.org is the best way to find me. LinkedIn. I'm super active on LinkedIn. You can find me on LinkedIn as well.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:51]: And that's Janae. J H E N A I Chandler, like the character from Friends. Or you can also find you on TikTok. Say that one for us again.

Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:37:59]: Reclaiming my stride. But I also just started a Instagram because NASA is super active on Instagram, like all the regions and divisions, and so it's just Dr. Janae, Dr. J H E N A I All one word.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:12]: Thank you so much, Janae, for sharing your voice with us today.

Dr. Jhenai Chandler [00:38:14]: Thank you for having me.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:20]: This has been an episode of Essay Voices from the Field brought to you by naspa. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We we continue to be so grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email [email protected] or find me on LinkedIn by searching for Dr. Jill L. Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions always. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a five star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you're listening now.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:50]: It really does help other student affairs professionals the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton. That's me, produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

The world of higher education is constantly evolving, and with each shift comes new challenges and opportunities for those working in student affairs. The latest season of the podcast, Student Affairs Voices from the Field, brilliantly captures this dynamic landscape, offering a blend of professional wisdom, personal stories, and inspiration for everyone in the field—from newcomers to seasoned professionals.

Kicking off its highly anticipated thirteenth season, hosts Dr. Jill Creighton, Dr. Christopher Lewis, and invite listeners on a journey back to the roots of what makes student affairs so impactful. Titled "The Value of Student Affairs," this season promises to shine a spotlight on the essential role that student affairs practitioners play in shaping campuses, supporting students, and enhancing the overall higher education experience.

Right from the opener, the co-hosts set an inviting and reflective tone. They recall how this project began during pandemic lockdowns and acknowledge the significant shifts they've witnessed in higher education since then. The podcast is not only celebrating over five years and nearly 200 episodes, but is also leveraging this milestone to dig deeply into the heart of what makes student affairs professionals invaluable.

What can listeners expect from Season 13? The hosts have structured the season around three core questions:

1. When you think about the value of student affairs, what comes to mind first, and why?

2. Can you share a specific story or moment when you saw the value of student affairs come to life?

3. What does student affairs need to do to be better understood and better seen in today's educational environment?

Through these guiding questions and interviews with diverse voices from across the field, the podcast explores the unique challenges currently facing higher education—like measuring value in an era of rising costs and institutional change. More importantly, it highlights the powerful and sometimes overlooked stories of how student affairs professionals advocate for students, build inclusive communities, and adapt through periods of instability.

This season isn't just for established leaders. The hosts actively invite grad students, early-career professionals, and those considering student affairs work to add their voices and stories. Their message is clear: everyone's journey and perspective bring value to the profession.

If you're looking for authentic, thoughtful, and hopeful discussions on what it means to work in student affairs today, this podcast is for you. Tune in each week, and join a community committed to supporting, learning, and growing together in the ever-changing world of higher education.

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Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:02]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts brought to you by naspa. We curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you happen to be. This is season 13 on the value of student affairs. I'm Dr. Jill Creighton. She her hers your essay Voices from the Field host.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:26]: Happy September, Chris.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:28]: Happy September to you too. It's a new year for all of us in higher ed, but and it's also it's just nice to be in.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:36]: Fall for our friends on the semester system. I've been loving watching your move in day pics and it's just such a joyful time for higher ed. For friends on the quarter system, I hope your move in processes go really smoothly this year. But we're back for what is now season 13 of SA Voices from the Field. Chris We've been doing this show now for we're entering year five, a little over year five. We're just about to pass our 200th episode milestone. So much happening. So much of the profession has changed since we started the show.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:07]: I remember you and I started working together in the midst of basically the first tendrils of lockdown, but we've also seen policy changes and governmental shifts and all these things. So we've decided this season to go with something to dig back into the roots of what we all bring to the table. And so I'll give a little Drum roll. Season 13 is what Chris.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:29]: On the Value of Student affairs so we are going back to our roots to be able to really look internally, look within ourselves, but also look within the profession about what makes us who we are as a profession, as individuals in the profession, and more. And I'm really excited about this season. We're working really closely with NASPA on some amazing guests and we're gonna be bringing you a ton of value for you as we move into I can't.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:58]: Imagine a more important time to be having this conversation, a time when in the US higher education is experiencing some instability as as a educational space, as a time when we're seeing more and more people measure the value of higher ed against the cost of higher ed. And with all of the changes in the U.S. department of Education, there's just so many conversations we're looking forward to having. So we have three theme questions this season like we've done in past seasons. And while we're going to be bringing you the content experts that you've come to know and love from the show we also are going to be focusing on the three questions, the Value of Student Affairs. First, when you think about the value of student affairs, what comes to mind first, and why? Second, can you share a specific story or moment when you saw the value of Student affairs come to life? And three, what do you think student affairs needs to do to be better understood and better seen in today's educational environment? So we look forward to bringing you the answers to these questions as well as that content expertise from your colleagues around the world. Can't wait to get into it. We've got 13 more episodes coming at you, as well as some special bonus things.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:07]: Chris, anything you want to add about our upcoming season?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:10]: You know, I'm just really excited because like I said, we've got some amazing guests that we're teeing up to bring to you. And if you have an interest in being on the show in the future, if you know of someone that you feel could be an amazing guest, send us an [email protected] we would love to hear from you in regards to your thoughts on guests for the future. But also if you've got questions or if you have things that you want to talk to us about, send us an email as well. Because we love hearing from you from your perspectives. We love hearing about the journeys that you're on and things that you're resonating with. And it helps us to be able to make the show even better.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:52]: And especially if you are a new professional or a grad student studying student affairs, we really want to hear from you. We want to hear about what brought you into the field, what's keeping you in the field. If you're a mid level professional, we want to hear from you what has kept you persisting through these mid stages of your career. And if you're a senior level professional, we want to hear from you too. We want to know what is that drive that keeps you churning in this field that has so much reward but also right now has a lot of challenge. Our first episode of season 13 will drop on September 18, 2025. We're still every Thursday in your fe through the semester and we will speak to you so very soon.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:33]: This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field brought to you by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to be so grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email [email protected] or find me on LinkedIn by searching for Dr. Jill L. Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions always.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:55]: We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a five star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you're listening now. It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton. That's me. Produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan, Flint for your support as we create this project.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:21]: Catch you next time.