This week on NASPA's SA Voices from the Field Podcastr Dr. Jill Creighton sits down with Marcus R. Langford, the Associate Vice Provost for the Center for Learner Diversity and Inclusion at Oregon Health and Science University (OHSU). Marcus shares his thoughts on leadership, diversity, and balancing a demanding career with family life.

The Path to Leadership and Diversity at OHSU

Marcus R. Langford's journey in higher education began with a personal challenge—an arduous college transition—leading him to become an orientation leader. This pivotal moment guided his career, allowing him to work in various capacities across the country, from Oregon State University to the University of Cincinnati Blue Ash. Currently, at OHSU, Marcus spearheads initiatives to foster diversity, equity, and inclusion.

Throughout this episode, Marcus emphasizes the significance of collaborating with intelligent, talented individuals. He credits his ability to identify patterns, navigate complex systems, and engage effectively with people as critical to his professional evolution from a specialist to a generalist—a valuable skillset for anyone in leadership roles within student affairs.

Doctoral Research: Black Male Engagement and Placemaking

Marcus is pursuing a Doctorate of Education (EdD) with his dissertation titled "Making Their Own Way, A Qualitative Case Study of Black Male Engagement and Placemaking at the University of Oregon." His research shines a light on the engagement and sense of belonging of Black male students at predominantly white institutions (PWIs).

Drawing from personal experiences, Marcus highlights the challenges Black students face in these environments. His findings reveal that while Black male students are actively involved across campus, they often find meaningful engagement in culturally relevant spaces like the National Association For Black Journalists and the Black Cultural Center. Unfortunately, these cultural groups sometimes face institutional barriers, such as restrictive catering policies that hinder the authenticity of cultural events.

The Need for Institutional Support and Recognition

Marcus's research underscores the need for institutions to recognize and support diverse forms of student engagement. Traditional engagement opportunities, such as student government, are sometimes less appealing to Black male students due to microaggressions and dismissive behaviors. Institutions must reconsider how their policies may inhibit students from expressing their authentic selves and engaging fully.

A practical example Marcus discusses involves the challenges cultural groups face when trying to work with external vendors to provide authentic cultural food. Institutional catering policies often prevent these collaborations, leading to unsatisfactory event experiences that can affect student engagement and sense of belonging.

Updating Theories and Practices in Student Affairs

Marcus advocates for a shift away from the overreliance on classical student development theories that may limit students' experiences. He suggests that institutions should expand the scope of what is considered valuable student engagement, integrating culturally relevant activities alongside traditional ones. Additionally, ongoing education for faculty and staff is crucial to understanding the evolving needs of students, which differ significantly from previous generations.

Mentorship and Professional Growth

Mentorship plays a vital role in Marcus's career. Larry Roper, a seasoned professional in student affairs, has been instrumental in guiding Marcus, emphasizing the importance of not needing to be the smartest person in the room and the value of continuous learning. Marcus appreciates the influence of younger professionals in challenging historical practices and pushing for necessary changes within the field.

Balancing Professional and Personal Life

One of the most profound insights Marcus shares is the importance of distinguishing between professional and personal commitments. He stresses that while he likes his job, he loves his family, and it's essential to prioritize personal relationships. This perspective, influenced by his mentor Larry Roper, reminds us that systems are designed to function without individuals, so self-care and personal well-being should not be neglected.

Conclusion: Moving Forward with Inclusive Practices

As Marcus R. Langford continues to lead efforts in diversity and inclusion at OHSU, his insights remind us of the ongoing need for institutions to adapt and support the dynamic needs of their students. By reevaluating policies, expanding engagement opportunities, and providing continuous education for faculty and staff, higher education can create more inclusive and supportive environments for all students.

Stay tuned for more enlightening discussions on "Dads with Daughters," and be sure to catch future episodes where we continue to explore the intersections of personal and professional lives in meaningful ways.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:00]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices From the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you happen to be. This is season 11, the past, present, and future of student affairs, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton, she, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Today on essay voices, I am overjoyed to be joined by Marcus R Langford, who is currently serving as associate vice provost for the center for learner and diversity and inclusion at Oregon Health and Science University or OHSU. In this role, Marcus is responsible for providing leadership and vision for the center to advance OHSU's learner centered diversity, equity, and inclusion and belonging goals. This work includes providing educational engagement opportunities for learners, as well as working with institutional partners to envision and achieve a collaborative cohesive approach to the enhanced recruitment and retention of diverse learners. In this role, Marcus is fortunate to work with and provide leadership to a talented team of individuals committed to cultivating relationships, creating educational solutions, and interrogating policies, practices, and procedures in partnership with various institutional partners and constituents to build institutional capacity for transformative change. Prior to his OHSU work, Marcus was at the University of Oregon where he most recently served as dean of students.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:23]: Prior to U of O, over the span of 20 years in higher ed, he served in several roles with increasing levels of scope and responsibility at a variety of institutional types. Marcus has professional experience in a variety of functional areas, including academic intervention and advising, campus programming, crisis management, diversity, equity, inclusion and belonging, leadership development, multicultural affairs, orientation and new student programs, student involvement, and veteran student affairs. I also wanna take a moment to pre congratulate Marcus on his future defense of his doctoral dissertation. I'm so excited to welcome Marcus Langford to the show. So good to see you, Marcus.

Marcus R. Langford [00:01:57]: Hey there. How are you? Glad to be here.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:59]: So for our listeners, Marcus and I have known each other for a very long time at this point. The very first time we met, Marcus was working at Oregon State in orientation and retention, and I was earning my master's. So we have been kind of at the same institution on and off a couple of times now. And so I'm so excited for our listeners to get to know you through your expertise and your research and and where you sit now. We always like to open our episodes by asking our guests how you got to your current seat and kind of teeing up from that journey out of orientation. How did you land into an AVP of DEIB space?

Marcus R. Langford [00:02:37]: Glad to see you and talk to you again. Always fun to chop it up with you a little bit, and thank you for, giving me this opportunity. So whenever I talk a little bit about how I got somewhere, for me, I always have to start at the beginning. And so for me, starting at the beginning, you know, ensures that I let folks know that I am a Southerner by birth. That's a big part of who I am and how I see the world and how I approach the world. So I was born in Birmingham, Alabama, but I spent the vast majority of my growing up in Cincinnati, Ohio. But even though I spent more time in Cincinnati than in Birmingham, I still would say I'm a Southerner by birth. And so the vast majority of my growing up in Cincinnati, Ohio, and I'm a high school English teacher by training.

Marcus R. Langford [00:03:19]: So my undergraduate degrees are in English Education and African American History. But how I got into the field was kind of typical or classic, and so much as I did not have the greatest transition to college. So much so that about midway through my 1st year, I vividly remember this like it happened yesterday, I called my mom and said, mom, I just don't know if this is for me. I think I want to drop out and come home. And in her infinite wisdom, my mom said, absolutely not. She said, dropping out is not an option. She said, you know, your your dad and I and other folks have invested too much time, energy, and effort into you, and you are more than capable enough to be successful in this endeavor. So she said, do one more thing, join one more club, one more organization.

Marcus R. Langford [00:04:05]: And if that doesn't work, at the end of the year, we can revisit this conversation, but we'll talk about where you will transfer to, not the fact that you're gonna drop out. And so like any good Southern boy, I I did what my mom told me to do. And that one thing that I elected to do was to actually apply to be an orientation leader. And part of the reason why I did that is because even though I had a difficult transition or a rough transition, the one person that I actually was able to make some semblance of a connection with throughout my first the midway through my 1st semester and through my 1st semester was my orientation leader. I still remember her name, Amy Mandler. And so in typical orientation fashion, at the end of my orientation experience, she gave her email, and her phone number and said, if something comes up during the year, give me a call, and I'll see what I can do to help. And so even though I had a, again, a difficult transition, that was the one person who was somewhat of a lifeline for me. And so that one more thing that my mom compelled me to do actually was being an orientation leader.

Marcus R. Langford [00:05:08]: But I still tell folks, even though Amy was a really, really great resource to me, I went into that experience with these nefarious purposes in my mind. Because in my mind, I was a black student at a predominantly white institution. And in my mind, I was gonna be the orientation leader that really kind of kept it real. But as you can imagine, for whatever reason, miraculously, I was selected. And as you can imagine, I had a fantastic experience. My experience as an fantastic experience. My experience as an orientation leader connected me to the institution, connected me to faculty, staff, and even other students in ways that I previously had not been connected. And so that really experience really was a pivotal point in my educational experience.

Marcus R. Langford [00:05:47]: Not only did it change the trajectory of my educational experience as a student, but it ultimately ended up changing the trajectory of my life. So long story short, I ended up graduating and I set up my high school English teacher. So I taught high school English for a little while, but elected to go back to graduate school to get a master's degree. And I went back to Miami University where I did my undergraduate work, I got a master's degree in higher ed. And at that point, transitioned to higher education where I got my first job in orientation and new student programs at Oregon State University. So I spent about 5, almost 6 years at Oregon State working with orientation and new student programs. So summer orientation visit programs, the 1st year experience class before ultimately, transitioning from there to Rhodes College, which is a small private liberal arts college in Memphis, Tennessee. I ended up going to Rhodes to help them build a traditional summer orientation program.

Marcus R. Langford [00:06:45]: So at the time, Rhodes was a small school, and they operated on the methodology that a lot of small schools did where they brought everyone to campus about a week or two before classes started. But what they found was that they were experiencing a high degree of summer melt because their students, all of their friends were going to orientation throughout the summer, coming home with schedules, coming home with IDs, coming home with shirts. And when you're a small institution that has a incoming class of a couple of 100, if you end up losing 5, 10, 20 students, that's a pretty big deal. So at Rose, I was hired to build a summer orientation program. So we backed up their fall orientation to a more traditional 2 day summer orientation program. So I spent some time doing that, but then at a small school, as many folks may know, you end up doing everything. And so that's where I started to get some more experience in academic intervention and crisis work and academic advising before ultimately leaving Rhodes to go back to Ohio where I grew up, to spend time working at the University of Cincinnati Blue Ash, which was a regional college of the University of Cincinnati. And for all intents and purposes, I was the chief student affairs for that regional campus.

Marcus R. Langford [00:07:57]: And so everything student affairs related at some point kind of rolled up to me, and so that was career services, student government, orientation, multicultural affairs, Hispanic and Latino affairs. And so that's really where the breadth of my experience, started to, expand, a little bit, and was there for about six and a half, maybe 7 years before being recruited to come back to Oregon, to work at the University of Oregon. So I spent 7 years at the University of Oregon as an assistant dean, an associate dean, and then ultimately the dean of student. And that's where we came that's where we came back together. So that's where our paths cross stuck in. Spent 7 years there. Had a really, really good and rich experience there before ultimately making the transition to OHSU, which is where I am right now as the associate vice provost for the Center For Learner Diversity and Inclusion. And so I've end this role in Portland for just about 3 months now.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:08:56]: And when we think about your journey in student affairs, I think you have a rich diversity of geographical experience in the field. We see folks kind of do both. Right? Either that are very anchored to one particular region or folks that kind of you and I both have gone have gone all over the country in kind of service of the profession. So I'd love to hear from you on as you've evolved in the past, present, and future of your career, how has that geographical space made a difference or informed the way that you're practicing in the field?

Marcus R. Langford [00:09:24]: That's a very good question, and I'll actually add another layer to that. And so I think my geographical experience has had an effector, and I also would add a layer of institutional type. And so what I would say is when I look back over the balance of my career, I think the fact that I've worked in multiple states and locations and the fact that I've worked at multiple institution types, that has served to strengthen me as a professional. You know, when I think about, you know, my experience at Oregon State University, which was a large land, sea, sun, space, air grant institute spa space, institution. There are skills and things that I had to think about there relative to connecting with students and the mission of the institution that in some ways did, and in some ways did not transfer to my experience at Rhodes College, which was a private, liberal arts focused, 1200 student institution. And so they were yes, there are oftentimes some through lines that exist when we're talking about working with and supporting college students. But some of the things that my students at Rhodes were dealing with were qualitatively different than, you know, some of the things that my students at Oregon State were dealing with or some of my students who, were at a commuter school, like the University of Cincinnati Blue Ash College. And so again, for me, whether it be institution type or geographical in nature, there were just aspects of that that I had to think about differently.

Marcus R. Langford [00:10:53]: And for me, I think that served, to enhance me as a professional. Again, it it it forced me to think about what I did, how I did it, and why I did it in different contexts. And so I had to be adaptable and make adjustments, based on where I was. It wasn't necessarily the ability, again, to pick up how I do what I do and just drop it part for parcel from one place to another. So yeah. So both living in a variety of different places and working at a number of different institutional types, without a doubt, has served to strengthen me as a professional in my perspective.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:28]: You also went from being a specialist in orientation to moving into a more generalist perspective as your career grew and you kind of moved upward in the hierarchies of student affairs. How did you manage to kind of acquire those skills as you went along that really served you from going, okay, I am a person who is implementing this program to now I'm a person designing this program to now I'm a person who has this program plus a couple of others. And then all of a sudden, you're holding all of the cards for a dean of students area. And at the University of Oregon, it's probably one of the larger dean of students areas I've seen at an r one d one. I think a lot of times, modern deans of students offices are really in the core of conduct and care, and maybe there are some other functions. But the University of Oregon has about half of the entire student affairs portfolio in the office of the dean of students. So talk to us a little bit about how you made that transition from your past experiences to the present of holding 13 departments.

Marcus R. Langford [00:12:26]: You're spot on. The dean of students portfolio at Oregon at the University of Oregon was and is rather large, and it was a lift. I I think one of the things that made that doable is the fact that there were some very, very talented folks there doing some good work. And so I was able to lean into the expertise and the experience of folks that surrounded me. But I'll come back to that because I think that's one of the reasons that I can say that I think I was able to serve in that role relatively well. But going back to your original question, yeah, so, again, I started, you know, as a specialist with within the context of orientation and new student programs. And I actually tell folks that of all functional areas, I actually think orientation is a very, very good one that can prepare you to advance. And one of the reasons why I say that is there are actually a couple of reasons.

Marcus R. Langford [00:13:16]: One is orientation is one of those functional areas where and I know you can say this about others, but you have to know a little bit about everything. And so when you think about kind of understanding the ins and out of an institution, and when you think about being able to communicate and needing to communicate the variety of what an institution has to offer to an incoming student to ensure that they can cultivate a pretty solid foundation in order to be successful, that translated to me as a professional. And so, again, as someone who started as an orientation professional, it was incumbent upon me to know a little bit about pretty much every facet of the institution. And so I think that's actually one of the things that I tell folks all the time that was a huge benefit to me starting out in orientation. The other thing associated with the functional area of orientation that I actually think served me well over the course of my career is this notion of being responsible and in a way needing to manage people, places, and things that aren't necessarily yours. And so again, as an orientation professional, it's imperative that, again, you marshal the troops that you don't necessarily supervise. It's important that you kind of manage and coordinate space that you don't necessarily own. It's important that you manage people in terms of how much time they get or not.

Marcus R. Langford [00:14:42]: Because if everybody wants 5 minutes, if you give 5 minutes to 10 people, 15 people, those 5 minutes actually start to stack up. And so you need to be judicious about whether or not folks can get 5 minutes or not. And so I think those are all things that, although it was coming in a, specialist way, they actually prepared me to be a generalist and as I advanced my career. So those are just some of the things that I think in terms of skills that I got from orientation that actually were truly beneficial to me later. But in terms of transitioning from something that I know a lot about and have a lot of experience to starting to collect and be responsible for a widening portfolio. Yeah. That that was a transition. And I I think part of, for me, what allowed me to do that is that I place a priority on listening.

Marcus R. Langford [00:15:37]: And so as I started to accrue some of these areas that I did not have tangible or concrete experience with, I recognized that it was important for me to listen, to the folks who were doing this work. And then I also recognized, in addition to listening, that it was important for me to invest time, energy, and effort to learn as much as I could about these areas. Now I recognized again that I wasn't necessarily going to be a content area expert. That's what those staff were for, but it was imperative that I had a general sense and a general understanding of the work that they did. And so, again, listening and this notion of being willing and or able to be a lifelong learner are things that allowed me to transition, I think, rather seamlessly into this role of being a generalist as I, continue to advance in my career. And I think one of the last things that I'll say is how did I manage this, and this is the part where I'll come back to u of o. One of the best pieces of advice that I got from a former supervisor who's now a mentor of mine is that she often talked about how one of the things that benefited her was this recognition that she needed to divorce herself from this notion that she had to be the smartest person in the room at all times and that she had to have the answer every time right then. And so when I think about my experience at U of O in managing a rather large portfolio, with a lot of functional areas and quite frankly a lot of things that I didn't have a high level of personal knowledge with.

Marcus R. Langford [00:17:13]: Part of that was leaning into that I don't necessarily have to be the smartest person in the room all the time, and so that was really hiring and surrounding myself with smart and talented people and allowing them to do what they were hired to do. Now I will say, I think one of the things that, you know, again, that allowed me to be successful in that is what I mentioned earlier around learning and asking questions, and leaning into their expertise. But I also think I have the ability to see patterns. I have the ability to understand and navigate systems, and I think I also have the ability to work with people. And so for me, those were 3 of the things that allowed me to transition from a specialist to a generalist, and I think be relatively successful in that transition.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:12]: Listening systems and people, those are Marcus's magic 3 for achieving that AVP title. Now, Marcus, you're you're doing all of this while you also had decided to become a PhD student or doctoral student. And I remember sitting with you as you were starting your journey, and I I passed you a post it that said, hashtag doctor Langford 2025 or sooner. And I believe we are on track for that. And so I wanna say huge congratulations to you for getting that first full one through 5 submitted for review. That is an amazing step. I remember the feeling for myself, all of a sudden, a level of guilt just kind of lifted off my shoulders that all of a sudden the free time I would take for myself was not weighted that I wasn't writing or reading at the same time. But I'm I'm really excited to learn more about your research and your findings because I think it fits well with our past, present, and future theme.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:19:03]: And also really aligns with your journey and your story as a person who was seeking to find belonging in higher education at the start. So why don't you tell us the, at least, tentative title for your dissertation?

Marcus R. Langford [00:19:15]: Well, thank you. Again, I do remember that conversation, and I do remember that post that I just moved into believe it or not, I actually still have it. I just moved into a new office, but I have a bunch of things that folks have given me over the time. And so since I'm still in the new offices and I just moved from Eugene to Portland, it's in a box in my garage with the rest of my office stuff, but I actually do still have that posted in a couple of other things that folks have given me. Yeah. So my doctoral work. So I am in the process of getting a doctorate of education, so an EdD, and the title of my study is Making Their Own Way, A Qualitative Case Study of Black Male Engagement and Placemaking at the University of Oregon. And so I would say, generally speaking, I've always been intrigued by the experiences of Black male students at predominantly white institutions.

Marcus R. Langford [00:20:04]: And I'm very clear in a couple of places in my dissertation of practice that my interest in this is deeply rooted in my own experience as a Black male student at a predominantly white institution. And so my undergraduate and graduate institution, fantastic school in the Midwest when I was there, about 16,000 permanent students, but the institution exists in a town that had, at the time when I was there, about 9,000 permanent residents. When I was there, the number of black students so when you look at 16,000 students, the number of black students that we had never exceeded 500, and I think that's probably being even that is a little bit on the high side. And so, again, I had these material experiences around what it means to be a black male student at a predominantly white institution. And so first and foremost, again, I've always been interested in thinking about the experiences of those folks. And further, I would also say that while I've worked at a number of institutions, I've also worked for a number of predominantly white institutions. And part of my rationale in doing that is because I decided that it was really important for me over the course of my career to do what I can to be for other folks what someone was to me. And so it wasn't an accident when I was looking for jobs, you know, that I ended up settling at Oregon State for a little while.

Marcus R. Langford [00:21:28]: It wasn't an accident that I ended up back at the University of Oregon. It wasn't an accident that even when I went to a small school experience, it was Rose College, which is, even though it was only 1200 students, overwhelmingly white, even though it exists within Memphis, Tennessee, which is a relatively diverse city. And so for me, again, thinking about the experiences of those folks is something that has always been important to me. A little bit more about the the the study. So one of the things that I've, been much very much interested in is this notion of blackmail engagement at predominantly white institutions. And so I talk a little bit about this over the course of my study, but I've always been interested in engagement. So when we think about involvement and engagement within the context of institutions, we clearly know that being involved and being engaged makes a material difference. And so students who are involved, engaged, generally speaking, they tend to graduate at higher rates.

Marcus R. Langford [00:22:26]: They tend to have higher grades. They tend to have a higher level of satisfaction with their collegiate experience. So involvement and engagement matters. But one of the things that I talk about in my literature review is that there has been a fair amount of critique when we think about what involvement and engagement means and looks like. And so when we think about some of the foundational studies that we build our knowledge in higher education on, to put it plainly, that foundational knowledge, generally speaking, is built by white men who've studied younger white men. And while there's not inherently anything wrong with that, I think what these critiques have shown is that as we've built our knowledge on this, that has served to ensure that we don't necessarily recognize and understand the full range of what these things can and should be, and we don't recognize the full range of the experiences that some folks have. And so what even prompted this study was that I would have conversations with some of my colleagues and some executive level administrators, and questions would be asked, why aren't Black male students engaged on campus? Or why aren't Black male students taking advantage of some of these same opportunities that other folks are? Why aren't Black male students kind of involved in student government? Or why aren't Black male students, you know, kind of joining our historically white fraternities? Or things like that. And what I thought then, and what was born out of my study is that while well meaning, that type of perspective flattens the range of ways that black males choose to be involved and engaged on their campuses, and it also ultimately serves to release the institution from their inherent responsibility to be mindful of why folks are making some of the decisions that they're making about where they choose to invest their time, energy, and effort.

Marcus R. Langford [00:24:28]: And so actually what I found is that black male students were involved across, the landscape of the institution, but there are choices that they made about where to invest the majority of their time. And so things like culturally relevant experiences was very important. And so, you know, they talked a lot about things like the National Association For Black Journalists. They talked a lot about the Black Male Alliance. They talked a lot about the Multicultural Center. They talked a lot about the Black Cultural Center. But in addition to those things, we also did have students who did research. We had students who were in IFC fraternities.

Marcus R. Langford [00:25:08]: And so they did do a range of these things. But, again, I think it was really being mindful of the fact that they were making some particular choices based on how they would experience something. And that's actually one of the things that I wanted to bring to the forefront through this study. So I conducted 3 focus groups and a couple of follow-up interviews. And, again, I found that students are engaged across the landscape of the institution. But what they also were looking for was the institution to recognize that through the application of policies, practices, and procedures, that there were ways that the institution could better support the engagement and placemaking, you know, of these students. And so some of the things, again, that institutions don't think about, we talk about policies, practices, and procedures. A very trite well, it sounds like a trite example, but it's really meaningful is if you go to any PWI, one of the things that you typically will find is this back and forth with cultural groups and campus catering.

Marcus R. Langford [00:26:08]: So what will happen and, again, it sounds trite, but walk with me. So what will happen is student groups, cultural groups, will often want to work with outside vendors around cultural food, but then you often have institutional catering and food services saying, well, we can do that. And students will say, well, yeah, you can, but, like, the food is not gonna be that great it's not gonna be that great or authentic or representative or correct or, you know, we wanna support this business in the community, and the waiver will be denied. Catering will do it. And in many instances, the food is not gonna be good because it's not prepared by someone of the culture, and the event will happen, but, like, students are like, well, this food really wasn't that great. And so, again, as an institution, those are the types of things that we don't think about. Typically, some of our institution folks within our institutions don't think about those as, quote, unquote, big deals, but those are the types of experiences that when taken in total really start to create issues where students, again, around have the ability to be engaged and and kind of make place for themselves. Another thing that came up was their decision making around how they would experience an organization or an opportunity.

Marcus R. Langford [00:27:23]: So going back to this notion of, well, why aren't students in student gov these students joining student government, or why aren't these students joining what we would define as these classical engagement opportunities? The students would then say, well, why do I wanna subject myself to an experience where I know I'm gonna have to deal with microaggressions on a daily basis? Like, why do I wanna join this organization where I know folks are gonna say off the wall things to me? Why do I wanna join this organization where when I joined the concert board and I say, we want to bring this person, I'm automatically gonna get shot down because that's not the type of concert or music, you know, that folks want to do. And so students, again, are making decisions about where to invest their time, energy, and effort about how they will experience things. And I think that's another piece that sometimes folks in institutions don't really think about. They don't think about how students will experience these opportunities. And in not thinking about that, it releases them from, again, their inherent obligation to ask some pretty difficult questions of themselves of how are we inhibiting, you know, our students from being their true and full selves through the application of our policies, but then also not addressing what students are telling us about some of the problematic things that they experience. So, yeah, so that's a little bit.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:44]: It's a good reminder that our institutions are always microcosms of the things that are happening in larger society, especially because institutions are designed originally with specific intent on who they were serving, and those vestiges have definitely carried through the present day in in student affairs. And one of the things I most appreciate about the research that you're doing now is I think our master's programs for a good couple of decades now have done a good job of acknowledging who student development theory was written by and for. But it stops there, and it doesn't go the next step of saying, okay, well, now where are we where are we conducting research? Who are the people that are participating in our research? And how are we making sure that those perspectives are more well rounded. And so I appreciate that your study is filling a gap in the literature, but how can we change our systems to be more inclusive of the traditionally aged black male experience? That's not out there as boldly as it should be, especially given where we are in time. And there's also then an opportunity, I think, I'm I'm hearing, like, future publication for you on on how this will get out there. And I appreciate the framing too of saying, you know, the institution is not absolved of its responsibility. And we both have a mentor who has said in the past, you know, institutions are just buildings and people. And so because of that, that means we are empowered to change those institutions.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:02]: Given that and given your research, can you give us maybe 1 or 2 recommendations for practice?

Marcus R. Langford [00:30:08]: Great question. So one, I think I would say it's important that we adequately invest in these organizations and these structures that we design. And so, again, I'll lean into my study participants. And so one of the things that they talked about was, so there is a black cultural center, and there is a multicultural center. But oftentimes, what happens is institutions will have or build these things to say, look, we have this, but what the students talked about is, well, I appreciate that we have this thing, but can we have a conversation about how it's on the edge of campus? Like, what does that mean? Can we have a conversation about how you built this building and there's only one person, you know, who's assigned to manage this building? So can that person get some help? They talked about things like having cultural organizations, but the rules under which they have to follow through student government and all these other things are often very, very difficult because of their relative size. And so, again, I I think one recommendation is to really think about whether or not we as institutions are adequately investing, whether that be human capital or fiscal capital, in these organizations and entities that are designed to support these folks. So I think that's one thing. I think another, recommendation is that I think it's really important to have some sense of ongoing, you know, kind of education and or training for faculty and staff.

Marcus R. Langford [00:31:46]: One of the things that I spent a lot of time talking about in my role as the dean of students is trying to help faculty and staff and administrators, I'll just say administrators, helping administrators and the people who comprise institutions, helping them to understand and reconcile that who you were as a student and the student experience is qualitatively different than who students are right now and what the student experience is right now. So again, one recommendation is some, you know, training or development for these folks to help them understand, again, that who students are and what the student experience is right now is qualitatively different than who they were as students. And so it's really important that we think about whether or not the folks who run these institutions have a keen and clear understanding of what student needs are today. And so some of that can be accomplished through training and development. And then I think the last thing that I would say is so Sean Harper talks about culturally relevant engagement practices. And so, again, I think part of this is ensuring that the experiences and the opportunities that we offer to students are culturally relevant and accessible. And so, again, I think oftentimes we have a canon in terms of, like, what acceptable or good experiences and opportunities are, and so I'm an English major, and so I think it's part of what our responsibility is is to expand the canon of what we see as good and acceptable. And so again, there are many ways that, you know, black male students were and are engaged on campus.

Marcus R. Langford [00:33:30]: And so some of that is around spending time with folks playing Madden, or some of that is, you know, being connected to each other off campus. And so I think it's incumbent upon us as institutions to recognize the inherent value, those types of things as well, and say and not necessarily get to this point of saying that, well, those are automatically less than joining student government, or that's automatically less than joining a fraternity, or whatever it is that we do. So, yeah, so I I I think those are a couple of things that in my mind were good pieces to consider, in terms of future practice.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:06]: Marcus, I'm gonna transition us to our theme questions for the season. So I have 3 questions for you, 1 each on the past, present, and future of student affairs. So we're gonna start in the past, and I'd like to know from you, what's one component of the history of the student affairs profession that you think we should continue to carry forward or alternatively something we should be letting go of?

Marcus R. Langford [00:34:25]: Well, I'll actually lean into what we were just talking about. I think one aspect of our past that I think would help us is loosening our overreliance on some of our classic student development theory. So I think student development theory is important. It can be instructive. But what I've also found, and I even remember my experience as a newer professional, I think sometimes unintentionally, what that allows us to do is to put students in boxes, or it creates a scenario where, yeah, we create kind of parameters that are too restrictive for how we think and why we do what we do. And so one of my things about the past is I think it would be helpful if we weren't necessarily so over reliant on some of our classic student affairs theory. That's probably a bit of, did he really say that? But that's what I think. I'm

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:17]: with you on that one, cosigning that opinion. On the present, what's happening in the field right now that's going well for student affairs?

Marcus R. Langford [00:35:24]: I think one of the things that from my perspective is happening that some people might not see it as a net benefit, but I think we have some younger professionals who are leading the forcing, encouraging, challenging us as a profession to ask some hard yet necessary questions about who we are, why we do what we do, and how we do what we do. To be clear, I thoroughly enjoy the work that I do. I thoroughly enjoyed the work that I did as a dean of students, but I think one of the things that I often say it was, I just tend to be one of those folks who don't say that I love my job. I like it a lot. I have a great affinity for it, but I tend to be a person who I reserve my love for things that can love me back in a tangible and concrete way. So I like my job a lot. I have a high affinity for my job, but I love my wife and I love my kids. And so I think presently, there are younger professionals who are having that mentality, and I think that's really forcing us as an institution to reckon with our reliance on, I'll say it, trying to pay people with and through passion.

Marcus R. Langford [00:36:34]: Like, passion doesn't pay the bills, to be clear. And so I think presently, yeah, there are newer professionals who are asking some questions that are really, really forcing us as a field to contend with some of our historical practices that probably needed to be reconciled with a long time ago.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:54]: I just wanna say for posterity, I quote you on that constantly. I actually said it yesterday to somebody who was really putting in like a 90 to a 100 hour work week. Actually, not even in student affairs. It was in a private industry field. And he said, hey, you know what? I have a friend who has told me a long time ago, I like your job a lot, but don't love your job because your job will never love you back. And that is something that I've taken from your wisdom years years ago, and I I keep that with me. So thank you for that one. And now it'll be out for the pod audience as well.

Marcus R. Langford [00:37:20]: Really quickly, to be clear, you know, I have leaned into that, but that's something that I got from a mentor of mine many, many years ago, Larry Roper.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:28]: Oh, I'm sorry. Of course. It's Larry Roper.

Marcus R. Langford [00:37:30]: Of of course. That's a Larry Roper thing. Again, I I think the the important thing is, again, is this is all about systems. And so that's not to say that a system or an institution doesn't necessarily appreciate you or value you, but I think it's important to understand that there's a reality that the way that Larry put it, we were sitting in the library, and he said, Marcus, what you need to realize is if you and I walk out of this library and fall off the face of the earth tomorrow, the lights will still come on and students will still show up. And part of that is because by nature, systems are designed to persist. And he said that's not to say that we don't do good work, because we do. That's not to say that we wouldn't be missed, because in many ways, we would. But systems by design recalibrate to this point of homeostasis.

Marcus R. Langford [00:38:17]: And so as a result, it's important that you are mindful and intentional to do what you can to take care of yourself because there's no guarantee that a system will. And so, you know, that's just something that I was very, very fortunate to get early on in my career, and it has been instructive for me over my 25 plus years career in this field. And that doesn't mean that I don't work hard. To be clear, you can ask my wife and she can cosign this. That doesn't mean that I haven't failed at that because in my mind, while I think I've done a very good job of maintaining balance in conversations with my wife and even with my kids, I know that there have been times that I've fallen short of that. That said, I think it's something that I've tried to consistently come back to, and I think that trying to get back to it has benefited me greatly over the course of my time in the field.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:08]: I don't know anyone who doesn't love a good Larry Roperism. And if you'd like to learn more from him directly, he was featured on season 1 of our podcast when Corliss was hosting the show. So if you wanna go back and take a listen, I just always appreciate hearing from him. And Marcus, our our final question here on the future is, in an ideal world, what does our field need to be doing to thrive towards our future?

Marcus R. Langford [00:39:30]: I think I would say that it's incumbent upon us to ensure that our policies, practices, and procedures are reflective of who students are now and the needs of students right now. You know, again, we do ourselves a disservice when we frame and operationalize things based on who we were as students and, you know, what brought us joy as students. Yes. I I I think those things can, to a certain extent, inform what you do. And I'll say something here, and it may not be popular. But if you came into the field to replicate your experience for other folks, I would challenge you to think about that. It's not about replicating your experience. It's about creating, supporting, and sustaining conditions so that people can have a rich and meaningful experience, whatever that may mean and look like for them.

Marcus R. Langford [00:40:27]: So for me, again, I think looking ahead into the future, it's important that our policies, practices, and procedures are reflective of who who our students are now and what their needs are now.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:40]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:40:46]: Thanks, Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world. There's a lot of things happening in NASPA. The deadline for the 2024 Leadership Educators Institute is coming up soon. The regular registration deadline closes on November 11, 2024. The Leadership Educators Institute is happening December 9th through December 11, 2024. This is a partnership between NASPA, ACPA College Student Educators International, and the National Clearing House for Leadership Programs. LEI provides a unique opportunity for all professional levels within our field to engage in critical dialogue to promote positive, sustainable change on their campuses.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:41:23]: If you are an individual that wants to connect and learn with other higher education professionals to advance student leadership on your own campuses, then the Leadership Educators Institute is the perfect place for you to go. You'll have the opportunity to explore proven leadership theories and innovative curricula that will help you to develop outstanding leaders on your campus. Just a reminder, the regular registration closes on November 11th, and you can find out more on the NASPA website. The 2024 Women's Leadership Institute is happening December 10th through December 13th in San Diego, California. The Women's Leadership Institute is the premier professional development program for women who aspire to be senior leaders in higher education. The Leadership Institute provides an experience that offers strategies for women to succeed in the higher education profession. Participants include women from facilities and operations, administration, auxiliary services, student affairs, recreation and libraries who share a passion for the profession and plan to lead with lasting impact. At this conference, you'll have an opportunity to come together with a diverse group of professional women to drive collective development, drive collective development, home leadership skills, share experiences about how to continue to provide adequate support for all students in a turbulent national landscape and create new personal networks.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:42:43]: Don't miss out on the learning and experiences offered at this special event. Find out more on the NASPO website. Also coming up on November 18th, there is a member briefing on translating data into practice, 20 24 NASPA top issues, findings and practical applications on campus. The NASPA 20 24 top issues results provide a snapshot of what senior leaders view as key priorities on campuses this year. This member briefing will provide you with an opportunity to get an overview of the top ranked issues, including centering the student voice, expanding access to mental health and well-being supports, facilitating cross campus collaboration, and more. This on top of examining how these trends shape student support services. A key portion of the presentation will highlight the prevalence of issues related to health, safety, and well-being and holistic student support efforts on campus and how institutions are leveraging NASPA's extensive resources and frameworks to strengthen their response to these issues. We hope you can join us for this session on translating NASPA's research findings into actionable strategies to support student success.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:43:56]: This is a free briefing that you need to log in to the learning portal atnaspa.org or go to learning.naspa.org directly to find this member briefing. Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself, where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, Hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:45:30]: Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:35]: Chris, we always appreciate you informing us on what's going on in and around NASPA. Thank you so much for another informative NASPA world. And, Marcus, we are now at our lightning round. So I have 7 questions for you in about 90 seconds. You ready to do this?

Marcus R. Langford [00:45:50]: Let's do

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:50]: it. Alright. Question number 1. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

Marcus R. Langford [00:45:56]: Let's get this party started.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:57]: Number 2, when you were 5 years old, what did you wanna be when you grew up?

Marcus R. Langford [00:46:00]: A marine biologist.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:02]: Number 3, who's your most influential professional mentor?

Marcus R. Langford [00:46:05]: Larry Roper.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:06]: Number 4, your essential student affairs read.

Marcus R. Langford [00:46:08]: I'll say the green book. I can't remember the title of it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:11]: We all know the green book. The student service Larry Roper helped write this one.

Marcus R. Langford [00:46:15]: Yes. Yes. Yes. Foundational information.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:18]: Number 5, the best TV show you've binged lately.

Marcus R. Langford [00:46:21]: I just started watching Operation Lioness and Deceptively Good.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:25]: Number 6, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

Marcus R. Langford [00:46:28]: A Questlove Supreme.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:29]: And finally, number 7, any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional?

Marcus R. Langford [00:46:33]: Personal, I always have to give a shout out to my family. My wife, Mercedes, who loves me in spite of myself. And I also will just wanna give a shout out to the fantastic people that I spent some time working with at Oregon State Oregon State, at the University of Oregon, one of which is Chris Winter. Chris Winter is the person who recruited me to come back to Oregon, and I just thank the world of her.

Marcus R. Langford [00:47:01]: And I'll second, cosign that shout out to Kris. She's somebody who I also have been very grateful to call a mentor in my career.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:47:01]: Alright, Marcus. We have reached the end of the road for our episode today, and it's been wonderful to hear about your research and your journey. If anyone would like to connect with you after the episode airs, how can they find you?

Marcus R. Langford [00:47:11]: LinkedIn, Twitter, and Instagram are all Marcus r Linkford.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:47:16]: Marcus, again, so lovely to reconnect with you, and thank you so much for sharing your voice with us today.

Marcus R. Langford [00:47:21]: Thank you, Jill. It's been a pleasure. Good seeing you and catching up today.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:47:30]: This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field brought to you by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to be grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email us at [email protected] or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill l Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a 5 star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It truly does help other student affairs pros find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:48:08]: That's me. Produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

Exploring Institutional Intelligence and Student-Centric Approaches

In the latest episode of NASPA's SA Voices From the Field, Dr. Jill Creighton welcomed Dr. Michelle Boettcher, an associate professor at Clemson University, to discuss a range of pertinent topics in higher education. With a rich background spanning nearly 20 years in residence life, various administrative roles, and extensive academic experience, Boettcher brings a wealth of knowledge to the conversation. This episode, delves into the nuances of institutional intelligence, ethical considerations, and the essential focus on student-centric practices in higher education.

Bridging Law and Ethics: The Minimum Baseline

Dr. Boettcher emphasizes a crucial distinction between meeting legal standards and upholding higher ethical standards. In one illuminating example, she discusses an accessibility issue where a building at Clemson University housed both office space and an honors residential community on the first floor. Although the building was ADA-compliant, the arrangement limited accessibility accommodations to honors students only. Boettcher argues that this situation, while legally acceptable, raised significant ethical concerns. She underscores that legal frameworks should serve as a foundational baseline, and institutions should strive to go beyond mere compliance to embrace more inclusive and ethical practices.

Unpacking Institutional Intelligence: A Framework for Change

One of the key highlights of the episode is the exploration of "institutional intelligence," a framework co-developed by Boettcher and Salinas in their new book Law and Ethics in Academic and Student Affairs Developing an Institutional Intelligence Approach, and is designed to understand campus culture and decision-making comprehensively. This approach integrates three main components: law and ethics, the institutional environment, and decision-making processes. Boettcher elaborates on how this model assists practitioners in navigating institutional culture, underpinning decisions with historical context, and fostering positive institutional change. By employing reporter-like questions—who, what, where, when, why, and how—this method helps gather and analyze vital information, ensuring well-informed decision-making.

The Core of Ethical Practice: Human-Centered Policies

Boettcher's commitment to student-centric approaches shines through as she emphasizes the importance of keeping students at the center of all institutional efforts. Drawing inspiration from Ruth Bader Ginsburg's dynamic view of law, she illustrates the need for adaptability and responsiveness in student affairs. Boettcher's approach is grounded in balancing control and care, aiming to build more collaborative and engaging environments for students. She also highlights the increasing recognition of student affairs professionals and their critical role in managing various campus scenarios, from everyday operations to crisis situations.

Practical Applications and Reflective Practices

Throughout the conversation, Boettcher stresses the significance of practical applications and reflective practices. Whether it's onboarding new staff, managing crises, or implementing change, the institutional intelligence framework serves as a guiding tool. Boettcher also touches on the importance of taking time to pause and reflect, referencing mindfulness practices as a metaphor for the long-term benefits of reflection in professional settings.

Merging Law, Ethics, and Practicality

This episode of NASPA's SA Voices From the Field underscores the intricate balance between legal obligations and ethical responsibilities in higher education. Dr. Michelle Boettcher's insights remind us that effective student affairs work hinges on understanding and navigating institutional culture, centering student needs, and committing to continuous reflection and improvement. Her practical, human-centered approach offers valuable guidance for educators and institutions aiming to foster more inclusive and ethical academic environments.

Listeners are encouraged to provide feedback, suggest topics, and leave reviews to help SA Voices From the Field continue reaching a wider audience with such impactful discussions.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:00]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices From the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you happen to be. This is season 11, the past, present, and future of student affairs, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton, she, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Today on Essay Voices, we're welcoming doctor Michelle l Batcher, sheherhers. Doctor Batcher studies the overlap of student affairs and higher education practice with policy, law, and ethics. She examines how these areas intersect in the areas of career decisions, diversity, equity, inclusion, access, and belonging, popular culture, residence life, the scholarship of teaching and learning, and work environments. After working for nearly 20 years in residence life and student conduct, she's now an associate professor at Clemson University in the student affairs and higher education graduate program. She has a great job, enjoys life as well as work, and is the luckiest person she knows.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:00]: Michelle, welcome to SA Voices.

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:01:02]: Thank you so much. I'm excited to be here and have some conversation today.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:06]: And while we are here primarily to talk about your new ish book, which is Law and Ethics in Academic and Student Affairs Developing an Institutional Intelligence Approach, which you coauthored with doctor Christabel Salinas junior, we always wanna start our shows by getting to know our guests. So can you tell us how you landed in your current seat at Clemson?

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:01:25]: Absolutely. So I'll go back to undergrad. I was an RA. And when I graduated, I said I would never live in a residence hall again. Then I went to grad school, and I worked in housing for almost 20 years. So just don't say never. I did that, worked different places. My undergrad's Iowa State.

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:01:47]: My master's was University of Arkansas. I was at the University of Cincinnati. I took a year and well, first after that I was at Ohio University and then I took a year. Because when you work in housing, you don't always have time to think about, do I wanna stay in this work because you're just busy all the time? And I worked at a public radio station for a year in California, which was very fun. And then decided, yeah, higher ed is my thing. I was at Dartmouth for a semester and then moved back to Iowa, which is where I'm from. Went back to Iowa State for a practice interview and was there for 12 years. So I was there for 5 more years in housing and then right before my current position, I was an assistant dean of students and director of student conduct.

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:02:35]: And I love that job. It's not for everybody, but I really enjoyed it. While I was doing that, I finished my PhD and started to look at faculty positions. Got the interview at Clemson and came and just really enjoyed the people, both the faculty and the students. And that's what I do now. I just am finishing up 10 years at Clemson, which is mind boggling to me, but I love it. It's the right job for me. It's a good mix of working on my own and then getting to spend really great time with students.

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:03:09]: So, yeah, that's a condensed version of my journey.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:11]: I love that you've gone from that practitioner perspective to that kind of researcher perspective and and scholar practitioner because it really, I think, informs your position in your research about how you're going to be approaching challenges and those intractable problems that we're looking at in higher ed. I know a lot of faculty members have gone straight through that faculty track, and a lot of practitioners have never been in that scholar track. So giving those two perspectives some voice, how does that change how you approach your work?

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:03:39]: Oh, I love that question. So I think first and foremost, I'm always looking to partner with practitioners. I'm a faculty member. I will always be a practitioner at heart. And I worry sometimes that as faculty, we can get really excited about questions that may not be as pressing and relevant to practitioners as those questions that we can come up with when we're partnering with them. And I'll sort of reference the book in this too. When Chris and I were working on the book, it was really important to us to have practitioner voices in the text. And so almost every critical scenario, we coauthored with practitioners.

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:04:22]: And then there are introductory quotes for the functional area chapters and the same thing. We did bring in some other faculty and academic and administrative leaders, but we really wanted this to be rooted in the day to day doing the work kind of thinking. So I love working with practitioners as co authors or supporting them because the people doing that face to face work with students and with incidents on campus, they're the ones who really know what the most important topics are. I very quickly, to my students, became just a faculty member, but at my core, I'm always, I think, gonna be a student affairs practitioner.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:02]: Leading into the book, how did you decide this was the topic for now?

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:05:06]: So I did not set out to write this book. I set out to find this book. I get to teach law and ethics every fall, and it is definitely one of my favorite courses to teach. And I don't know that it's the course every student looks forward to. And my coursework was very much studying case law and understanding how case law and policy inform what we do. And that's important, and that's part of the sort of context section of our textbook. But for me, I wanted, how do you think about it? How do you plan for things? And I also wanted an ethical component. Because while a lot of the decisions we make on a daily basis might have legal implications, it's the ethics.

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:05:53]: That's, like, almost every decision we make. There's some sort of ethical piece informing that. So I looked and I just couldn't find the book that I wanted. And Chris and I had worked together on a different book related to hazing. And so I reached out to him and said, hey, I wanna put a proposal together. I know that we write well together. He also had practitioner experiences in areas that I have not worked in. And so I thought we make a pretty good team and he was really good.

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:06:25]: But his first question was, are you sure I'm the person you wanna write this with? And because he said, I haven't done that work. I said, oh, but you have. You know, you you make those decisions. And he had the academic, like, advising and and mentoring experience, and I just haven't had that. And so that's where it came from. I was looking for a book for class, and I couldn't find the book that I wanted. And so then I was like, okay. I think at the time it was like, we'll just write it.

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:06:56]: Yeah. So that just it's a bigger project than, just, but but that's how it came to be. And like I said, I love the topic, and I'm really interested in it. And I want it to be approachable for people. So that's where it came from.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:08]: I would also consider myself a bit of a case law nerd and definitely a policy nerd. One of the things that I've been doing with NASPA for many terms now is sitting on the public policy division and kind of looking at the lens of what are we doing in terms of policy information for practitioners, and there's the intersection of law and policy. And ethics is an interesting place to introduce that topic for aspiring student affairs practitioners. Why at Clemson and for your class in particular, do you choose to pair those 2 subjects together?

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:07:37]: So that predates me. That's how the course was set up. But I once I got into it and was working with it, like, it's never even entered my mind to separate them. Mhmm. Because I think we it kinda comes down to just because it's legal doesn't always mean that that's the answer to the question. And I'll give an example. My last residence hall that I worked in as a hall director, I was in a a brand new building, which is an experience unto itself. And if you're listening and you've had that experience, you know, everybody thinks everything's gonna work on move in day and it doesn't really.

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:08:18]: There are tweaks still to come. Well, one of the things in this particular building, the first floor, half of it was office and meeting space and half of it was a residential community. And it was an honors community, which meant if you had needs around accessibility, unless you were an honors student, you could not live on the 1st floor. The building was up to code in terms of ADA and all of that. There were lots of really good spaces, but not on the 1st floor, again, unless you were an honor student. So during that 1st year, we had conversations about, can we move the honors floor? And our honors community was one where students tend to tended to stay for a couple of years, and students were not excited about moving until we were able to work with the honors program and expand the community. So the upper floors were full floors, so it was twice as much space. So that was kind of how we were able to make that change.

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:09:19]: And it didn't mean that every student with an accessibility issue chose to live on the 1st floor because we have one student who was living on the 3rd floor, and he liked his community there. He didn't wanna move down to 1st floor. But for me, ethically, to not even have that as an option in the newest building on campus was problematic. So I think our our ethics and our laws, like the legal standard is the lowest standard. It's not what we aspire to. And so for me, that's where ethics come as comes in is how do we do the legal thing as well as we possibly can do it? Does that answer the question?

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:58]: Yeah. I think we say the similar thing with policy, which is the policy is the floor, not the ceiling, meaning that the policy is the baseline expectation of how we are fundamentally providing access for someone or how we are looking at equity in other learning opportunities or what we expect from our students from a behavioral perspective. I think you and I both grew up in the conduct perspective. That conduct code isn't telling us what we can do. It's telling us what we can't do, and we see that all over the place. And so thinking about the book that you wanted to create for your class, you and Chris invented a framework called the institutional intelligence approach. And when we think about this season of our podcast theme, the past, present, and future of student affairs, this institutional intelligence approach to me frames the questions we have been asking in the past, examines the challenges of the present, and gives us a framework to look towards institutional decision making in the future. So can you talk to us a little bit about what is institutional intelligence? Do you and Chris have framed it in your work?

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:10:58]: And I love the way that you put that in terms of past, present, and future. I'm working with students right now on a project using it around the job search, which is future oriented. But absolutely, it's really, I think, a pretty simple model. And so institutional intelligence is at the center. And it's always in flux because there's change all the time on campuses. So it's never that you reach the now I know everything about my institution. It's a growing, evolving kind of thing. And the model, it's 3 pieces.

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:11:35]: So on on one end, you have law and ethics. And I would put policy in there. I would put procedure can be part of that as well. But that's sort of the guide. Those are the guidelines. And then in terms of the law and policy piece, the ethics is how do we enact that. And so those help to set the stage for what's the culture on campus. The other side is the who, what, where, why, when, how questions.

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:12:04]: And using those, the way that we talk about them in the book is as you navigate institutional culture, how can you build your awareness or your intelligence about a given campus? It could work for another organization. It could work in another context, but you can go through. So just thinking of who's your supervisor. Right? So who are they? What is your relationship with them? How long have they been on campus? How long have you been on campus? You just can go through the questions to kind of anticipate or reflect or again to your point in the moment when you're dealing with something, who needs to know about this? A student just shared something with me. Who else needs to be informed? What's our process for communicating that? When do I need to make sure other people are aware of this situation? And so it really is and it was not a starting point for the book. It came up as we were talking through other things, and it's like this could really be helpful. And again, coming from housing and conduct where there is a lot of crisis, you can get so overwhelmed with whoever is right in front of you in the moment that you can miss other things. And so this model is meant to sort of give you a moment to think about it.

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:13:21]: And that moment may come it might come during the event, but it might come after the event. So you're using it to look back and reflect on what did we do? What would we wanna do differently? How did we communicate with the community about this? And it might be used to look forward in terms of changes that we might wanna make in case this situation comes up again. But I think a lot of people use at least parts of it intuitively. We want to understand the place where we are or the situations that we're in. And so we just put a little more detail to it and a little more formality and structure to what a lot of us do instinctively, I think.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:01]: Let's back up a minute. And can you define institutional intelligence as you and Chris use it in your book?

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:14:06]: Yeah. So the idea of institutional intelligence is really being aware of the culture of the place and understanding how does it work. I would say at the core, institutional intelligence is knowing your place in the larger picture. And it's understanding, again, policy history is really important. When I teach law and ethics, I talk about the idea of the random campus policy. Every campus has this weird policy that you've never heard of anywhere else. It's almost always the result of a thing that happened, right? There's a story behind those and sometimes we can get to those stories and other times It's so far gone that the story is lost, but the policy remains So it's about awareness. It's about just understanding how things work in an effort to understand how to make things happen, how to create change, or how to sort of engage in ongoing improvement, things like that.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:10]: And when we move into the framework that the 2 of you have developed, you mentioned that you're looking at what I would call the reporter questions. Maybe when we first learned in early schooling years how to interview someone or how to ask a question or how to write an article for something, we're looking at that who, what, where, when, why, how, the 5 w's plus how questions. Tell us about how you arrived at these questions, which are well known in American journalistic culture, but transitioning them into a higher ed context.

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:15:39]: It's hard not to think of these questions because, like you said, they're just so embedded. We use them, like you said, in reporting. We use them in writing. We use them in understanding, and everybody kind of knows them. And so I think that was part of the appeal. You know, we weren't looking to make something that was unapproachable because the harder it is to understand, the less utility it has. And so using them in our context, it really is just a little bit of a reframe. In a way, a reporter uses them to gather information for the story, which is their work.

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:16:16]: In our thinking, we use them to gather information for student affairs work. So asking who within the context of higher ed. We grouped why, when, and how together because those are a little bit more about action. Why is sort of the bridge. Right? It's the bridge between what's happening, what should happen, and how to make it happen, and when and how is putting it into it being whatever it might be. It could be a policy. It could be a crisis response. It could be a supervision strategy.

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:16:53]: But those are more the task things and why bridges between the information gathering and the putting into action. And it's again, the comfort that I think a lot of people have with it just made it very appealing. We found ourselves asking those questions as we were building the book and especially as we were writing the critical scenarios. They just kept coming up and over and over again. And so that was sort of the seed that grew into the model.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:22]: You've already mentioned that you're using this model with your current students in the job search in terms of application. You've put some examples in the book around kind of deconstructing university responses to freedom of expression components. How would you envision a practitioner taking this model and applying it to their work? And when does that happen? And what do you hope the outcomes will be?

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:17:42]: So I'm a big fan of the model. I think that there is utility for it in so many different ways. The first thing that comes to mind for me is onboarding. Helping someone understand and I would say this doesn't have to be a person new to an institution, but particularly in that case, it could be really helpful. But it could be I'm moving to a new functional area on the same campus. It could be I'm getting a new supervisor. There are lots of different ways, but it is a great tool for adaptation and acclimation. So navigating change or planning to navigate change for implementation as we're doing this and as we're going through whatever the process might be.

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:18:28]: I tend toward crisis just because my work experience involve that a lot, but it could be rolling out a new mission statement. Who do we want involved? Who should have input? How do we wanna build the process to move forward? When do we wanna do this? When does it make sense? I also think a really valuable and I would say based on my own experience. So this is, anecdotal, not research driven. But where we miss the opportunity to learn the most is in that reflective stage. We're so busy and there are so many things happening all the time. We don't always carve out time to reflect after. And again, it could be after a crisis, but it could be after, say, you're moving to a cluster higher model in your area. Reflecting on what worked, what didn't, who's involved in that reflection, when do we do it? Do you do it right away? Do you wait 6 months? Do you do it more than once? So I think it works in really the big aspects.

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:19:34]: So the creation, ideation, visualization stages of things. It works in supervision, group dynamics, team development sorts of things, and it works in looking ahead and planning, anticipating. It's just an easy model that has pieces that fit into all of the different sorts of activities and conversations and planning that we do and beyond higher ed. But I'm focused on higher ed because that's where I wanna be.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:07]: In the book, there is a table that I like called the ultimate cheat sheet for critical thinking using this model. And so we've talked about kind of the big buckets of the who, what, where, when, why, how. But what I like about the cheat sheet is that it breaks down into more specific subquestions that could be used. I'm just gonna share some of them with our listeners. So if you wanna go pick up the book, you can kind of understand a little bit more about what these buckets might represent in practice. So in the who or whom question, you might ask, who made a decision or decided about the situation, or has anyone else faced the situation? In the what bucket, we might have what are the strengths and weaknesses of those who were involved or effective, or what's another perspective or alternative to the situation in the way that it was managed. In the where, we're looking at things like where's the most need for a specific resource or support in the situation, or, where can we get more information is a is a great question we should always be asking. In the when we have, when did it occur, when's the best time to act? And That's a great reflection question for practitioners who are looking to implement change or even make a response to something that could have been a crisis on your campus.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:15]: In the why, we have why is this situation a problem or a challenge? And I don't think we stopped to ask that question a lot. The why is this happening, why now? Because as responders in student affairs, we're often looking at, okay, what should we be doing? And I think the impetus for the why question can help us actually solve the problem because we might be getting to the root a little differently. And then finally, in the how bucket, how will we approach this situation safely? How does this response or decision harm us or others? So I think it just gives us a nice framing of, hey, let's pause. And one thing we don't do in student affairs a lot is pause. Yeah. So thank you for giving us some of those questions that I think you're right. We're already doing, but we don't necessarily put in one place.

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:21:58]: And the idea of the pause, I'm so glad that you brought that up. There's a story that I like about this man and he goes to a teacher and asks, I'm really busy, but I know I need to meditate. How long do I need to meditate? And the teacher says, about an hour every day. And the man says, I don't have that kind of time. I can't do it for an hour every day. And the teacher says, okay. Then 2 hours a day. And I think about that in terms of what you were just sharing because that pause, it does take away time in the moment, but the time that it saves down the road and the clarity that it can bring, it's an investment forward.

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:22:37]: And, yeah, it takes some time in the moment. But if you don't reflect, you end up doing the same things over and over again that may or may not be in the best interest, not only of the students involved or the faculty or staff involved, but in terms of your own team and your own I don't wanna say productivity, but your own rootedness in the work. Because more committed and energized and understanding ways instead of that's just the way that it is.

Lora Phelps [00:23:13]: What are the other major takeaways that you're hoping readers of the book will keep with them?

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:23:18]: So I will share that one of the things and Chris and I definitely wanna acknowledge doctors Mimi Benjamin and Jody Joseph Banger who worked with us and supported us through the development and the submission of the book. One of the things for me is I use humor a lot, and I use it in my teaching. And I wanted this to be as enjoyable as this kind of a book can be. So there is some humor in there. Chris came up with this great concept of the onion. And to understand what issues are, you have to get to the core of the onion and an onion is layered. And I think we even have in there sometimes it will make you cry a little bit. But we tried to use examples like that.

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:24:05]: You know, we use real life examples. And again, the partnering with practitioners was really important to us. But there are ways to make scholarship approachable and enjoyable. And there are also scholars who write and use language that creates barriers and hierarchy. And we did not wanna do that. We really wanted this in the hands of practitioners, people using it in classes, and providing students a way of engaging with what can be really challenging. The issues that our students and our higher education communities are facing are heavy, and they're challenging. And there can be joy, and there can be laughter in the work as well.

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:24:48]: So I think that's one of the things I'm most proud about. Again, thanks to Mimi and Jody. There were a few things in there that they're like, yeah. It's funny, but I don't think you really want this in the book. And I would then go to Chris and say, it is funny. And he would say, yeah, but I think they're right. So it's, I think, an appropriate amount of humor. But I do think that in the end, we're human beings, and we're navigating our lives and building our stories.

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:25:15]: And for me, humor and love go hand in hand. And so that's part of what underscores the book is I hope that people receive it as a book of care, not as a directions or I don't want it to be rigid because policy is really not rigid. It can look that way on paper, but when it comes to implementation and meaning making, it is more malleable. And if we don't bring care, we can shape it in ways that do harm rather than in ways that ultimately it should be something that supports healthy communities and places where people can thrive and grow.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:56]: Michelle, we're gonna transition into our theme questions for the season. So first, I'm going to talk to you about the past, which is what's one component of the history of student affairs that you think we should continue to carry forward or alternatively let go of?

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:26:11]: So I would say something that we should carry forward is centering students. And I say that because while I think for the most part we do that, where we are right now, and one of my go to people or one of the people I admire very, very much is justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg. And she talked about law as a pendulum. And it's not static. It's always in motion. And sometimes it's a little more where we want it to be, and sometimes it's a little more where we would rather it not be. And there are people at either ends of that. And so we're all comfortable at times, and we're all uncomfortable at times.

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:26:55]: And so I say centering students moving forward because we are in, I feel like right now, a place where I worry that we are being pushed to center law, policy, and politics rather than centering students. And this is not the first time we've been here. I know it for me, it can feel very scary at times. But if you look back over the history of higher education, this is common and it's where the pendulum is in the moment. I want us to carry that forward and I don't really have a fear that we won't. I think the people who are drawn to this work are drawn to this work because of the experiences they had, the experiences they didn't have, and what they want to create for other people as they're going through their higher ed experiences. So we can get pressured or it can get easy to get caught up in other things. But in student affairs, if at some point in whatever our process is, we're asking, is this what's best for students? I think we're gonna be okay.

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:28:01]: And sometimes we have to compromise on that a little bit because things we don't always get to be the boss of all the decisions. But that's something that I would say, while it originally probably started over controlling students, the way that this work has emerged has really been about caring for students more than controlling. But again, we go back and forth on this and but that's something I would really like for us to hold on to. And I'm happy and proud to say I know lots of people who are doing exactly that.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:31]: Moving into the present, what's happening in the field right now that's going well for student affairs?

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:28:35]: I think that student affairs is I don't know if rising in prestige is the right way to say it, but I think because of different things that have happened and are happening, I think people understand we need student affairs because a lot of times college presidents, particularly at 4 year institutions, come from the faculty route or more and more they're coming from a business route. And while those leaders bring certain strengths, they don't bring the strengths of dealing with student behavior. And stop it is generally not gonna work with students. And so I think that the role of divisions of student affairs and the functional areas that are really student facing, I think people are understanding we need people with that kind of expertise to navigate not just when things go poorly, but when things go well. We need to understand and I'll use just because it just happened when the Vanderbilt football victory. They're walking the goalpost 3 miles to the river. Well, sure, there's law enforcement involved with that. There's policy and things like that.

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:29:57]: But in terms of communicating to students and balancing the celebration with the responsibility, we're the ones who know how to do that. I worked for a vice president at one point and his philosophy was we do the things other people don't wanna do. Well, I think that's true to an extent. I think now people are understanding we do the things other people can't do. And so it's faculty matter, administrators and leaders matter, but student affairs people, they're the ones who really are dealing with some of those really big issues, whether it's the recent hurricanes on campus or celebrations or whatever it might be. So and I can be naive, and maybe that's not exactly true. But I see more examples of consultation rather than direction from the top down in terms of working with student affairs practitioners.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:51]: And looking towards the future in an ideal world, what does the field need to do to thrive towards our future?

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:30:57]: We have got to tell the story of what we do And whether that's assessment, whether that is more practitioners in public media, there's the joke of you can't really explain what student affairs is. That's true. It's a weird kind of thing that most people don't understand, but you can tell the stories of specific things that we have done and the way that we make a difference. And we do that in partnership with students, but any chance that someone has to share information about what we're doing and the difference that we make, that's just gotta continue. And I'm I'm a storyteller at heart, so there are lots of different ways to do that. Could be being on a podcast. It could be writing for a publication. It's great to do things at conferences.

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:31:46]: It's important to do that. And could you do something like that for your city council? Could you do something like that for maybe even local schools talking about transition. And we do that in the practice of the function of our work. But the more that we can get out and tell the stories of how we make a difference. And it's not just about preserving roles on campus, but it's really about letting families and students and communities know about the resources that we have. It always hurts to find out a student has been struggling for weeks or months when we have the people, the places and the things that could have helped them through whatever it is they're navigating. But that storytelling, I just can't stress it enough. It's really essential and we've all got the stories.

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:32:36]: We don't have to come up with things. We all carry those with us every day.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:40]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:46]: Thanks so much, Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world, and there's a ton of things happening in NASPA. The 2024 Leadership Educators Institute is happening December 9th through December 11th in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. This is a partnership between NASPA, ACPA College Student Educators International, and the National Clearing House for Leadership Programs. LEI provides a unique opportunity for all professional levels within our field to engage in critical dialogue to promote positive, sustainable change on their campuses. We all know that leadership is an integral competency for our profession. The leadership development of students is an important and ongoing process that requires commitment from both students and staff. Student affairs professionals and other university administrators play an essential role in coordinating, shaping and evaluating the leadership development of students by designing leadership courses and programs, creating co curricular opportunities and utilizing emerging technologies.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:33:47]: The Leadership Educators Institute has a rich history of convening professionals committed to leadership development for nearly 17 years. This Institute creates a space for student affairs administrators, scholars, and practitioners to discuss and advance current leadership topics. As mentioned, the conference is from December 9th through December 11th in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Registration is still open with regular registration deadline coming on November 11th. Get more information on the NASPA website. The 2024 Women's Leadership Institute is coming up also in December, December 10th through 13th in San Diego, California. The Women's Leadership Institute is the premier professional development program for women who aspire to be senior leaders in higher education. The Women's Leadership Institute provides an experience that offers strategies for women to succeed in the higher education profession.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:35]: Participants include women from facilities and operations, administration, auxiliary services, student affairs, recreation, and libraries who share a passion for the profession and plan to lead with lasting impact. You can be a part of a special program for women seeking to become leaders in higher education administration and student affairs. This institute is co produced by several higher education associations and is a unique program that will bring together administrators from across campus functions to help you hone your leadership skills for working in a rapidly changing environment, develop a better understanding of the campus as a workplace and culture, share experiences with others about how campuses are adapting and adjusting to the new reality and create new personal networks and networking skills to better tap the higher education community. Registration is still open and you can find out more on the NASPA website. The 2024 Red Ribbon Week Campus Video PSA Contest is currently open. This annual contest aims to promote the importance of living a drug free lifestyle. Just recently, NASPA announced that through the campus drug prevention dot gov website, your campus can submit a campus video PSA to promote the importance of preventing illicit drug use and legal drug misuse among college students. If your campus wishes to do this, you would create a 30 to 60 second video PSA showcasing your campus' commitment to a healthy drug free lifestyle.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:36:05]: You can submit your entries until November 4th and there's some great prizes for the winners, including a first prize of $5,000 to to support the winning campuses, the winning campuses efforts to prevent drug misuse among their students and a recognition plaque. Beyond this, it's a great opportunity to be able to bring your whole campus community together for a common goal. Find out more at campus drugprevention dot gov. Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways, because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself, where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, Hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:37:27]: Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:55]: Chris, thank you again for all of the work that you do to keep us informed on what's going on in and around NASPA. And, Michelle, we have reached our lightning round. So I have 7 questions for you. 90 seconds. Ready to rock?

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:38:08]: I'm ready.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:08]: Okay. Number 1. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:38:13]: It would be I don't know that this puts me in a positive light, but I love Apex Predator from the Mean Girls soundtrack. So I would go with that.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:22]: Number 2, when you were 5 years old, what did you wanna be when you grew up?

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:38:26]: A writer.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:26]: Number 3, who's your most influential professional mentor?

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:38:29]: Frank Robinson.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:30]: Number 4, your essential student affairs read.

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:38:32]: Oh, well, my book.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:35]: Number 5, the best TV show you've been binging lately.

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:38:38]: I am watching right now the Gotham series, which I haven't decided if I like it or not, but I love Batman. So that's what I'm watching.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:47]: Number 6, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:38:51]: Criminal.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:51]: And finally, number 7, any shout outs you'd like to give personal or professional?

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:38:55]: Yes. Absolutely. Shout out to Chris Salinas. Thank you for everything. And to my partner, Leslie, who endured the process of me writing the book as well.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:05]: Like a second dissertation all over again. Exactly. Well, Michelle, it's been wonderful to get to know you today and learn more about your and Chris's work on institutional intelligence. If anyone would like to follow-up with you after the show, how can they find you?

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:39:17]: Yeah. So the best way to reach me is through email. I my email is my to do list, and I'm very good at keeping up with that. That's m as in Michelle, and then the first part of my last name, [email protected]

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:35]: dotedu. Michelle, thank you so much for sharing your voice and your institutional intelligence with us today.

Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:39:42]: Jill, thank you for the invitation. This has really been a pleasure, and you have a great demeanor. You made this very easy and very pleasant, and all the best moving forward. But thank you again for your time.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:57]: This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field brought to you by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to be grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email us at sa voices at naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill l Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a 5 star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It truly does help other student affairs pros find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton, that's me, produced and audio engineered by doctor Chris Lewis.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:39]: Special thanks to the University of Michigan- Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

In the latest episode of NASPA's SA Voices From the Field, Dr. Jill Creighton sits down with Mike Segawa, an esteemed student affairs professional with over 40 years of experience, to delve into the evolving landscape of student affairs. Mike shares his invaluable insights on the importance of storytelling, professional development, and the challenges facing the profession today.

The Power of Storytelling in Higher Education

Storytelling holds a unique place in academia, especially within student affairs. Mike Segawa underscores the value of storytelling not just for engaging students but also for communicating effectively with cabinet members, board members, alumni, and presidents. Particularly in the Pacific Northwest and among indigenous populations, storytelling is a revered cultural tradition. It serves as an entertaining and less threatening way to convey significant impacts and digest information. Through stories, professionals can humanize data and present compelling narratives that illustrate the importance of their work.

Grad Prep Programs: A Traditional Path with Modern Challenges

Mike reflects on the traditional career trajectory in student affairs, from resident advisor (RA) to vice president. However, he acknowledges that this path is becoming less common, as many professionals now enter the field from diverse backgrounds. Mike's own graduate program was extensive, covering legal issues, counseling, diversity, and history. Today's programs, constrained by shorter durations, struggle to fully prepare students for the complexities of modern student affairs roles. This gap necessitates enhanced and ongoing professional development.

Professional Development: Beyond Conferences

Practical training such as graduate assistantships (GAships), internships, and practicum experiences are crucial but vary greatly in quality. According to Mike, professional development should extend beyond national conferences. Local and regional opportunities, as well as diverse and structured activities, are vital for continuous growth. Mike stresses the need for purposeful professional development plans that are aligned with individual career aspirations and institutional goals.

Sustaining a Career in Student Affairs: Combatting Burnout

The discussion also touches on the increasing burnout among student affairs professionals, exacerbated by the COVID-19 pandemic. Dr. Jill Creighton notes that the complexity of roles has grown, encompassing more legal and regulatory challenges. Mike advises maintaining strong personal relationships and taking regular vacations as essential strategies for resilience. He emphasizes that supervisors must model this behavior to set the right expectations for work-life balance within their teams.

The Dual-Edged Sword of Technology

Technology has fundamentally changed how students interact with each other and with institutions. While beneficial, it also presents challenges, particularly through social media, which can sometimes cause harm. Mike highlights the importance of ensuring a balanced and positive experience for students, fostering both intellectual development and joy during their collegiate years.

Looking Ahead: Advocacy and Equity

Mike Segawa advocates for a proactive approach in engaging with public entities like legislators and civic leaders. By sharing data-driven stories, student affairs professionals can better demonstrate their contributions to education and gain support. He also discusses the ongoing challenge of promoting diversity and inclusion, noting the need to constantly justify these efforts in an increasingly scrutinized public and political environment.

The Enduring Impact of Student Affairs

Mike Segawa's insights highlight the critical role of storytelling, the necessity of comprehensive professional development, and the enduring challenges faced by student affairs professionals. His advice and reflections serve as a guiding light for current and future practitioners, emphasizing the importance of balancing work and life, leveraging technology wisely, and advocating for equity and inclusion in higher education.

For more insights and to hear the full conversation, tune into NASPA's SA Voices From the Field, where we explore the multifaceted world of student affairs and the voices shaping its future.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:00]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices From the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you happen to be. This is season 11, the past, present, and future of student affairs, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton, she, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Today on SA voices, we are honored to welcome Mike Segawa. Mike served as an SSAO for over 16 years at the University of Puget Sound, Pitzer College, and the Evergreen State College. During those times, his staff was responsible for a variety of student services offices, including dean of students, counseling and health, housing and res life, career services, student activities, multicultural support services, Greek life, orientation, outdoor programs, student conduct, access services, and recreation and athletics. The majority of his 40 year career was spent in residence life at Evergreen, the University of Washington, and then Central Missouri State University. And while Warrensburg, Missouri was not his favorite place to live, he did meet his wife of 42 years there when both he and Mary were on the residence life staff there.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:11]: Mike has served many of our professional associations, including NASPA, ACPA, and Akuhoai. While with NASPA, he served in a variety of roles, including president, regional vice president, conference chair for Chicago in 2001, and the Orlando joint conference with ACPA in 2007, and 10 years on the national board of directors. His most enjoyable role, though, was as the coordinator of the SERVE Academy. He's also been the host for the Small College and University Institute, a number of SSAO institutes, and the region 5 SSAO retreat. He proudly served for 12 years on the region 5 advisory board. Mike has been honored with the 2022 distinguished pillar of the profession award, the Henry g outstanding mentoring award from the APIKC, the 2007 pillar of the profession, the Doris Machi Coaching breaking the glass ceiling award, and the region 5 Turner award. Now fully engaged in active retirement life, he continues to enjoy his fanaticism for the Seattle Mariners baseball team, fantasy baseball, running, traveling with his wife, Mary, spending time with their 2 kids and their families who live in Seattle and Virginia, and reading The Chronicle of Higher Education for purely entertainment. Mike, we're so glad to have you on SA Voices.

Mike Segawa [00:02:21]: Jill, thank you. I'm looking forward to this.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:23]: And Mike, you and I have been connecting at annual conference for, I think, probably several years at this point. You're a pillar of that, the AAPI community for NASPA, but also a distinguished pillar of the profession. And you've just had just an illustrious and very complex career. So I'm looking forward to talking to you today about the longevity of being a student affairs professional and kinda what you've seen. And normally, we start our episodes off by asking our guests how you got to your current seat, and your current seat is retired life. So without kind of going too deep back into the bio a little bit, can you tell us about your journey through the profession?

Mike Segawa [00:03:02]: Oh, it was 40 years, Jill, and it never felt like it. I loved every step of the journey. And, actually, you know, a lot of folks, especially when I was a senior student affairs officer, asked what was your favorite job? And they assumed it was being a vice president. And instead, I went the opposite direction. I said, actually, my favorite job was being an RA. And yeah. Absolutely. I've said that in front of RAs.

Mike Segawa [00:03:24]: Every time I greeted them for training, I've said it in front of parents and students. Being an RA was the best job I ever had. So started there, but I loved every job that I had after that, whether it was as a hall director or director of housing or vice president or whatever. I loved every job, so it was a wonderful 40 year career. But I knew it was time to leave when, staff would come to me and said, we need a new strategic plan. And I said, yeah. You're right. I don't wanna do that.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:54]: Sounds like a lot of work. Right?

Mike Segawa [00:03:55]: Yeah.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:56]: So it it sounds like what drove you into student affairs is that kind of semi traditional RA path. What sparked joy for you as an RA that made you wanna launch into the career?

Mike Segawa [00:04:08]: It was the basis of my happiness throughout my whole career, and that was the individual students. You know, as we get deeper into the career and you move up the ladder, the chance for contact with individual students gets harder to do, but I always manage to find ways to do it. And when I think back to my RA years, you know, when I needed a study break, all I had to do was walk outside my room and walk down the hallway, and there were always gonna be residents there that I could talk with and just find time to have fun with. Got harder when you became a vice president or dean of students. You know, this when you would walk up to a student, they go, did I do something wrong? But that was it. It was that individual student contact that, even to this day, is the joy of the work. Because every few months or even actually more than few months during a month, on a monthly basis, I'll have some former student reach out or some former staff member reach out, and we'll have a conversation whether by email or phone or text or whatever. And frankly, those are the highlights of the week, man.

Mike Segawa [00:05:11]: They still are, even now being retired for about 3 years.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:14]: MEWI recently won a mentorship award, the Henry G, mentorship award through the APIKC. And so I think that really speaks to your willingness to give to professionals even though you're no longer on a college campus day to day.

Mike Segawa [00:05:27]: Yeah. And, you know, the mentorship piece is a fascinating dynamic to me because stereotypically, people see that almost as a one way street that the mentor is providing support service to the mentee. But actually, especially when I was practicing, I got more out of that interaction than I felt the mentee was getting. Because I was still learning so much about what was going on in the lives of our students or our staff members or employees or whomever that, gave me an insight that when you're especially sitting in what I call the big chair, people don't necessarily volunteer that to you. And so having those opportunities to engage colleagues in that way was very much a two way street.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:10]: I'll give a shout out to another NASPA pillar, Doctor. Mary Jo Gonzales, who's a a mentor of mine as well. And she would talk often about, you know, needing to find truth tellers when you're sitting in the big chair, and being able to, have those around you who who you can trust to tell you the truth even if the truth is hard.

Mike Segawa [00:06:28]: Yeah. And, you know, and the truth can be hard, and it can be hard to hear it sometimes. You know, and some of us are better at that than others. And so that's something I think that requires usually practice.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:39]: So let's pop back to that RA space for just a minute because you came into the student affairs profession at a time when the literature, especially around student development, was still pretty focused on a particular population. And so I'm just gonna name that. We know most of our original student development theory work was focused on white cisgendered men. And so we know that the literature has evolved since then. But knowing what you were getting into in the state of the field at the time, what do you see as things that were important for you as a as a learning space? And what did you see as things where you were still filling in the gaps of your own knowledge and how you were working with students?

Mike Segawa [00:07:17]: As folks could see from my bio, I did my undergraduate work at UC Irvine, and that was way back in 1975 to 79. One of my first supervisors as an RA was an Asian American woman. Little did I know how unique and rare that would be for me in my career to have an Asian American woman be a supervisor. However, it was so important. What I learned from her by watching her, by having her as a role model, conversations and all that, that was hugely important to me as I reflect, you know, on the whole arc of my career. And so it it was just reinforcement for the importance of having a diverse workforce, including in student affairs, and that we're still a ways away from it. So that was hugely important to me, who I was working with, who my supervisors were. And I had the advantage that throughout my career, I had folks from diverse backgrounds who were supervisors.

Mike Segawa [00:08:13]: But again, at the time, I didn't really appreciate it. They were just my supervisor. They were Rob. They were Charlene. They were Jim. They were the folks that yes. They're my supervisor. But their identities, in their own ways, they role modeled how to do that really well.

Mike Segawa [00:08:29]: And you know, I think the common denominator for those that I most enjoyed working with in that role was their own self of sense of self confidence and self worth. And so that's something that I didn't fully appreciate at the time. And I think as we're on the journey, you may not fully appreciate the presence of some of those folks in your career. They could be supervisors. They could be peers. They could be students that you're working with who are student leaders. But surrounding yourself with folks who are different from you in so many ways really enriches the career, makes it more fun, but also enhances your skill set in a way that the research can't do, the books can't do, the lectures can't do. It's only in that interaction personally, 1 on 1 especially over an extended period, that I think you get the most advantage of having diverse voices around you.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:17]: And in thinking about how diversity has evolved and DEIB has changed from when you entered the field to now, can you help us understand how that evolution felt as you were moving through it? Because we can look at it from a retrospective and say, yes, we're in a different place now, but we also know that happens incrementally.

Mike Segawa [00:09:35]: Yeah. We are at a different place now. Maybe I'll start there because the place we are now, literally today, honestly, I think is so much harder than where we were 40 years ago when I first started the work. The challenges that we are facing in the way of social justice and equity, especially external to the academy, is not some place I anticipated us having to go. And I've talked with a lot of my colleagues who are still in the field, especially senior officers, and I shared with them that I never imagined 10 or 20 years ago that we would have to be engaged in these kinds of conversations, justifying what I would consider to be some of the pillars of our profession, some of the core tenants of our profession, the things that almost all of us grew up with, believing in strongly and still believe in, that we would have to justify it in the ways that I am seeing, especially at some of our flagship institutions that are just more visible to the public and to politicians and to other folks. So I'll start there. Like I said, that I think today's work in the way of social justice and equity inclusion is harder than it was 40 years ago. But the evolution of it on so many levels is gratifying.

Mike Segawa [00:10:43]: We're talking about things now that are so much further ahead of where we were 40 years ago. 40 years ago, it was very much a representation issue. It was a numbers issue that we saw or the lack thereof. Especially in student affairs, I'm proud of the job that we've done in terms of diversifying our own workforce, but we still have a ways to go with that. Whether it's with indigenous populations or Asian American, Asian populations, Southeast Asian populations, Hispanic, Latino, Latinx. We've got a ways to go still with that. But it's gratifying to see that we're beyond simply needing to get numbers in the door. And I think we've become, inside the the academy and especially student affairs, we've become better sophisticated about the students that we're dealing with and each other as peers and colleagues.

Mike Segawa [00:11:34]: So that's progress. But we're being challenged now in a way, like I said, I didn't see this coming. And it's really frustrating to me that that's now a critical part of the work. Because having to do that kind of work that many of you are doing in defending the work means that's a diversion from being able to deliver day to day service to students or to our institutions. Like I said, it's a frustrating dynamic for me to watch.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:56]: Do you have any advice for those of us that are in those weeds?

Mike Segawa [00:12:00]: Well, with student affairs and actually with higher education in general, we generally don't get to shape the agenda socially, even when it has to do with us in terms of higher education and our students. So we do have to be reactive to it. And in this case, I don't see this dynamic going away where having to justify the work around equity and inclusion. It's gonna be on our radar screen, and it's gonna be foisted upon us as an agenda item for a while. So it's not gonna do us any good to try and avoid it or to downplay it or to pooh pooh it or to just dismiss it as these are people who just don't know or understand or their motives are not pure in why they're challenging it. So having said that, I think that we in student affairs and especially some of our senior officers and our equity inclusion officers, we're gonna have to get more comfortable and more engaged in what I call the public square conversations. We're gonna have to be engaged in those conversations outside of the academy, outside of our ivy covered walls, and engage it and bring our perspective and data assessment to it to inform the conversation. And we're not always gonna be successful with that, and it's not always gonna be heard.

Mike Segawa [00:13:17]: But we need to have the opportunity to at least put it out there, like I said, in the public square. And we're not used to that. You know, our graduate programs don't teach us or train us for that. Our professional training doesn't do that. I don't know that we've seen very many, if any, programs at NASPA or ACP or anywhere else on this kind of thing. But we're gonna need to engage our publics in a way that we have not had to do historically around here. I think we can do it. I know we can do it.

Mike Segawa [00:13:43]: But this is a different direction that we're gonna have to go, because I think we need to be more assertive about sharing who we are, what we do, and what it accomplishes on behalf of our students.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:56]: I think that's true both in and outside of the academy. One of the things I've always talked about in senior leadership roles is how student affairs tells its story to the rest of the campus community and the stakeholders. Because I think a lot of student affairs professionals, and I've felt this way in my career as well, kind of always feel like the underdog a little bit that we're constantly scrapping to prove that we are deserving of resources or time, energy, what have you. And then we have on the other side, these beautiful student stories of students who would not have persisted without the student services that are coming out through student affairs, whether that be things like camp programs or student involvement or TRIO or I can go on and on and on about the list of whatever that might look like. But we also don't do a good job of telling that story even to our academic affairs partners sometimes. So it's wise advice that you're sharing.

Mike Segawa [00:14:46]: Joe, what you just said is another one of my hopes for us as a profession, and that is we do become better storytellers, which means we're not lecturing people. We're not preaching to people. We're sharing the stories, especially of our students. And a lot of times, we let the student voices sing that out. That's absolutely perfect and most effective. But we will be in places that our students will not be. And so being able to tell those stories of our students. And I remember many times saying to my staff, I need these stories in my hip pockets.

Mike Segawa [00:15:17]: Because as a senior officer, I wasn't always privy to those stories. But my director of student activities was, my director of orientation was, my resident directors were. So I was always searching for those stories that I could use, whether it was with cabinet members, board members, alumni. Because during most of my time, I was focused inwardly on those stories to within the academy. I didn't have to talk very much with legislators and folks outside the academy as I was just talking about, but I still needed those stories. And I needed those stories to pass on to my president because I wanted my president to have those stories in his or her hip pocket to be able to pull out. So storytelling has a proud tradition in so many of our cultures, you know. And especially for someone like me being in the Pacific Northwest, our indigenous populations have the most wonderful stories and develop the most wonderful art around those stories.

Mike Segawa [00:16:13]: So, yeah, it is hugely critical, but storytelling is a much more fun way to convey how we have impact and is an easier way for folks to digest what we are saying and what we're trying to convey. And I think it's less threatening, and it's more entertaining. So, yeah, I do think we need to become better storytellers inside the academy, as you said, Joe. But, you know, as I said earlier, it's becoming increasingly important outside the academy now to be able to tell those stories and to equip others to tell those stories.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:16:45]: You mentioned grad prep programs as a place where there's space for evolution and how we're preparing student affairs professionals. I'm wondering if you can talk to us a little bit about what your grad prep was like when you were getting your master's degree in student affairs, what you're seeing now, and where you think we should be going.

Mike Segawa [00:17:02]: Wow. That's a long term memory recall for me. Although it doesn't seem like that long ago, it it really doesn't. And I think that's part of the joy of the journey has been. In student affairs, for probably the longest time, and certainly the last 25, 30 years, we have often talked about an arc of a career in student affairs starting with the grad prep program or even earlier than that as an undergraduate, you were a student leader. And usually that meant you were an RA, and then you went to graduate school and you got your master's degree, and then you got into the field. Usually, it was a residence life type position, and then you just moved up the chain. You moved up your career ladder.

Mike Segawa [00:17:42]: And that was the stereotypical arc that led you to a director position, an assistant dean, an associate dean, associate vice president, and then you got to sit in the big chair as the vice president. And that was a traditional career arc. You know, as I've gone through this, actually, very few of us did that traditional career arc from RA to vice president. And I say that as one of the few unicorns that did that. I started as an RA, and I ended up as a vice president. But, you know, most of my colleagues, most of my peers, that wasn't their career arc. We came from all different directions in terms of our journey to eventually becoming a senior officer. So when I think about my grad program and what we did, yes, it was really a very traditional program in that sense of how we would describe it.

Mike Segawa [00:18:31]: It included programs like legal issues. It had a counseling component. It did have a diversity component to it, history. So it very much was traditional, which was a great grounding for me 40, 45 years ago. But the conversations that I had I've had with my our faculty colleagues in these programs, especially over the last 5 to 7 years of my career, pointed out to me how hard it is on our grad prep programs today to prepare our colleagues for this work because there really isn't any way in a usual 2 year master's program to really prepare you for the day to day work that you're gonna now be entering because it's so much harder, so much more complicated, so much more complex than the world I entered over 40 years ago. And a 2 year grad program can't possibly touch on all of the topics that a supervisor would say we need you to get. And so that is the huge challenge to our grad prep programs and to our students coming through those programs now. There really needs to be acknowledgment.

Mike Segawa [00:19:35]: The 2 year master's program, if a person chooses to come that route into the field, can only be the first step in your professional development and preparation for this incredibly challenging but rewarding work.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:19:47]: And it's interesting because one of the things I've been hearing about the grad prep spaces is that there's some practical elements that we expect that are taught through, GAships or internships, practicum experiences. And that's uneven training ground depending on where a grad student is placed, particularly in navigating sticky political situations on campuses. And those are things sometimes that we can only learn through experience and sometimes stepping right in it in that experience.

Mike Segawa [00:20:18]: Yeah. Stepping right in it is a great way to learn. You just hope you don't step into it too often. One of the things that, again, towards the end of my career, I was really paying more attention to both on my own campuses, but as a profession. We just have to get better at providing our staff with professional development options and opportunities. And to be more purposeful, have them be more purposeful about them, help them to be more purposeful about it, be more structured about it, and to look for the opportunities and to create the opportunities that aren't just going to NASPA, National. Some of our younger colleagues, I think, have this vision of, I need to go to the national conference. That is the professional development opportunity.

Mike Segawa [00:21:05]: That's the place to be seen. That's the place to get the jobs. And all of that, to some degree, has some truth to it. But for me, professional development over the course of your career should be a diversity of opportunities that can be delivered on your own campus, locally, within your community, regionally, nationally, and as you know better than I do, Joe, internationally. So we, as supervisors, just need to get our folks to be more purposeful and structured about their own career development arc because it's gonna it's even more important now than it was 30 or 40 years ago. The skills and preparation and experience that our folks need to be successful and to navigate these really challenging waters is so critical. You are not prepared for the work coming out of the master's program alone. And you're not prepared for the work just by going to conference programs over the course of a few years.

Mike Segawa [00:22:02]: You're gonna have to develop your skills and experiences in ways that are just very sophisticated, very purposeful, and very diverse.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:11]: And those skill sets may not actually be all that different than the ones that you needed when you started your career, but the the nuance around them might have changed for sure.

Mike Segawa [00:22:19]: Yeah. And what to me is even more critical now than it was to me 40 years ago, 45 years ago, is how to sustain yourself in the work. That was really never a question for me and most of my peers for most of our career. And when I say how do we sustain ourselves, it's can I do this work for another 5 years? Can I do this work for another 10 years? Can I do this work for another 25 years? That was never really crossing our minds. There would be bad days or bad weeks where we go, maybe I should go do something else. But those are more fleeting thoughts, and they never stuck. Today, I mean, especially over the last 5 to 7 years, I've had so many conversations with folks at all places in their professional journey that are asking themselves that question. They're not necessarily sharing that with others and especially not sharing it with supervisors.

Mike Segawa [00:23:09]: It was fascinating to me when I would be at NASPA having these kinds of coffee vine conversations or just sitting somewhere quietly on with these topics in mind. And I would ask folks, can you see yourself doing this work for another 15 years? Joe, I and I had dozens of those over the course of last few years. I didn't run into a single person who immediately said, yeah. Absolutely. No problem. I can easily do it. Every single one of them said paused and said, I haven't really told anybody that, but I've thought about it. Can I do this for another x amount of years? And usually it was more than 5.

Mike Segawa [00:23:43]: You know, those of us who are close to retirement, it's like, yeah, we can suck it up and do it. But those who are at mid level positions or entry level positions or whatever, asking them that question was really, on some level, heartbreaking to hear their response because they didn't know if they could do this work for a lifetime of work. And that's hard to hear, but it's also important to hear because supervisors, professional associations, we need to be paying attention to that in ways that I think need to be different than what we have been doing for the last 50 years. Just letting our folks go to national regional conferences saying, that's great, that's good, that's professional development, it's not enough anymore. And one other thing I'll add to it is budgets are tight on every campus no matter what kind you are. And almost always, the first things that we cut are professional development dollars. We have to rethink that because that's a short term fix that will have medium and long term negative consequences for our profession, for our institutions, and our students.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:24:49]: I appreciate you naming the burnout in the field. It's something that we've been talking about on the podcast since I've been working with it really, and COVID really did a number on a lot of us, I think. And that's not specific to the student affairs profession, but a lot of us were holding the space for unprecedented decisions and times and things that were really hard. And as you've mentioned throughout our conversation, the the nuance of the profession has gotten more complicated. The litigiousness has gotten more complicated, and the regulation has gotten more complicated. So as you kind of observe those you're mentoring, what advice do you like to give about how to find that resilience?

Mike Segawa [00:25:28]: It comes back to a lot of things that we know are important. It starts for me with, do not neglect your loved ones. There are going to be days weeks again where, okay, yes, I do have to spend a lot of time with work on campus. But if that happens too often, if you allow that to happen too often, and you don't pay attention to your families, to those who are closest to you, that's gonna be detrimental to them, to you, to your students. And we often let that slide and and sacrifice that. And so my first thing to my folks has always been take care of your families, take care of yourself in that regard. But we oftentimes sacrifice that. And so that that is number 1 for me.

Mike Segawa [00:26:12]: Number 2 is I paid attention a lot to vacation balances for my staff. And those who were accruing huge balances, for a long time, that was seen as a red badge of courage. You know, wow. Look at that. You know, what dedication they have to the work. And I came to believe, actually, no. That's a problem, actually. If we have staff members, colleagues who are actually returning vacation balances to the institution, that's not a good thing.

Mike Segawa [00:26:40]: And so as a supervisor, paying attention to those kinds of details and literally really pushing your folks to use those vacation balances, take the time, is hugely important. Most of our staff have often been at will employees or exempt employees, which means we also have the flexibility to give them some downtime that doesn't have to come off the books of vacation or sick. When they've come off those tough weeks, make sure they take the time to be away and fully away, which is hard with your cell phones and computers and iPads and everything else. But that's hugely important to be able to do. And as a supervisor, you need to role model that. There's a little longer story. But so many years ago, I was asked by NASPA to do a workshop on and I think it was at a new SSAO Institute. And they gave me the, work life balance workshop.

Mike Segawa [00:27:31]: I'm going, oh, okay. I had actually never put together one of those workshops, so I actually had to do some digging around and creating. So I sent an email to about a couple dozen of my colleagues, mostly vice presidents at that point, and said, what do you think of this work life balance thing? And the traditional answers came back, you know, you need to take the time, you need to be attentive to it and all that. But I had a couple colleagues who wrote back saying, you know, I really don't do it. I love my work. I get energy from the work. And so I just dive in. And I don't do a lot of vacation kinds of stuff.

Mike Segawa [00:28:02]: I don't take a lot of downtime. But they said, what I've learned though in that process is my staff is watching me. And so if I'm telling them to take time and I'm not doing it

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:12]: They're not doing it.

Mike Segawa [00:28:13]: They're not doing it. Actions speak louder than words. And so even the rare few for whom the work gave them the energy, so they just really dug in and did so much of it. Even they said, I needed to be more attentive to the message I was sending to my staff, and that's hugely important. Most of us need the downtime. Most of us need the time away. But even those of you who don't, others are watching you. And if you're telling them to go away for a while and regroup and refresh, they're not gonna believe it as much And they're gonna see, I guess what it means is I need to be here all the time to be successful because that's what I see my boss doing or my supervisors are doing.

Mike Segawa [00:28:49]: So being a supervisor and being a leader is really a complex and complicated job. You really need to think beyond your own needs and how you best operate and look at how is this being perceived by those around me.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:02]: Absolutely. One of the best pieces of mentorship I received in that regard was being able not only to take leave, but being able to turn off my phone and my email and just be like, I'm not available during this period of time. And I did that for me and also for the team that I was leading, so they knew that they could also do that when they went out.

Mike Segawa [00:29:20]: Technology, on balance, I think, helps us, but not always. And so and I don't know if you were gonna go this direction, Jill, but real quickly, in the way of our work today on campus, I have seen technology be a real challenge for us, with our students especially, student behaviors, the way students now interact with each other, way they interact with us. And on balance, I think it's provided more challenge than we found the opportunity right now. Students on social media these days experience so much harm. And how do we deal with that? How do they deal with that? The conversations we have on campuses these days are oftentimes online and not necessarily mediated. And so we're seeing damage being done to our students especially that we were not prepared to deal with, especially 10, 15 years ago when this first started breaking on our campuses. And so I see the importance of not only us, but our students trying to find distance from social media and technology at times because it can be a really difficult place to try and communicate, develop relationships, exchange ideas. I worked on campuses in which I had too many students tell me I know the right thing to say online or in person.

Mike Segawa [00:30:33]: It's not what I necessarily believe, but I know this is what I need to say in order to stay out of the crosshairs. And I don't wanna be in the crosshairs social media wise or in person wise. So it's really made really genuine engagement for our students on campuses really hard to do nowadays and really hard for us as student affairs folks to facilitate those.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:55]: I think that leads us really nicely into our 3 themed questions for our season. So I'm going to start with our question on the past, which is what's one component of the history of the student affairs profession that you think we should continue to carry forward or alternatively something we should be letting go of?

Mike Segawa [00:31:11]: Continuing forward to focus on the student and student learning and the student experience. Student learning has been terrific as far as an understanding of what skills our our students are developing. But one of the things that we're not measuring well enough is, are are students having fun? Are they enjoying themselves? Are they enjoying the experience? It's great to measure their intellectual development, their social development, and all those kinds of things, but this needs to be fun, and it needs to be enjoyable. And I don't think we've paid enough attention to that. So it is the focus on the student that we bring forward, but moving forward, these are supposed to be the best years of their lives. And for an increasing number of our students, I'm not sure that it is. And that's where we can help them in student affairs more than their faculty members can, perhaps more than their parents can. That's a role that we can well play for our students.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:05]: Moving into the present, what's happening in the field of student affairs right now that's going well for us?

Mike Segawa [00:32:10]: Wow. That's a really good question because I don't know that many of us think that way right now because of all the challenges that surround us. So what's going well for us right now is we are responding to the emergencies, if you will, the crises really, really well. Go back to the pandemic. You know, that was just 2020, so it wasn't that long ago. But the speed, the effectiveness that we approach that, I give us a lot of credit for that because that was something most of us, well, hardly any of us had ever dealt with something like that. So there wasn't any playbook for how to deal with this crisis on our campus. And earlier, we talked about, the lack of appreciation for student affairs folks within the academy.

Mike Segawa [00:32:51]: I think historically that's been true, but I do think one of the silver linings to this pandemic has been especially our faculty colleagues have come to appreciate even more what student affairs people bring to the student experience. Because it was us that we were leading the way on how do we respond in the pandemic, how do we take care of our students, and even to some degree, helping our faculty members understand how can they most effectively now teach our students.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:17]: And our third question on the future. In an ideal world, what does the field need to do to thrive towards our future?

Mike Segawa [00:33:23]: Well, I have talked about it already, John. That is we need to be engaged in what I call the public square. We need to now step outside of our academy walls and engage the publics, whether those are legislators, other politicians, local leaders, civic leaders. We need to be more assertive about going out there and sharing our stories. And for most of us, that should be fun. Bragging about our students, bragging about our institutions, but doing it in a way that we bring the data to. We can't just say trust us. That's a huge difference from when I entered this work.

Mike Segawa [00:33:58]: 40 or 50 years ago, I was taught the public trusts us in the academy in higher education.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:03]: That's definitely different than now.

Mike Segawa [00:34:05]: So if we say this is what we need to do when it comes to the work of teaching our students, they will defer to us. The courts defer to us. Parents defer to us. Politicians defer to us. As you said, that's no longer the case, and we have not yet adjusted to that reality. And that's not gonna change. We'll not go back to the days where we would say trust us, and they'd let us do what we want. Even those who are allies and supporters are now at a place where, okay, I wanna believe you, but you have to show me why this is true, or you have to show me why this is going to work.

Mike Segawa [00:34:37]: And we have not yet pivoted in a way, I think, that embraces that and then prepares us to be effective storytellers of the critical work that we're doing, you know, on campuses.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:49]: Mike, is there a particular student affairs story that you would love to make sure that our listeners hear from your career?

Mike Segawa [00:34:54]: So I spent, 1 year at the University of Nevada, Reno. I spent most of my career in the Pacific Northwest and especially at University of Puget Sound and 13 years as a senior officer at Puget Sound. But for a variety of reasons, felt like the right time to leave was then when I did. And the next year, I had some colleagues, some friends at UNR asked if I would come down and help them out for a year as an interim dean. So I did. And one of the last meetings I had was with a student at UNR in my office. And she was there because it was May. And she was a senior, and she thought she was in position to graduate.

Mike Segawa [00:35:32]: All she needed was another class in summer school, and she would graduate. And she had mapped this out to the penny for herself over her 4 years. What she didn't realize in having to attend one summer session was summer session was more expensive than the academic year. So she didn't have the money to complete the summer session. So a faculty member had referred her to me, to our office. She explained her story to me, and she was a bartender at a casino in Reno, which she said in her case, she says, I need to wear a bustier to work. She said, I need to get out of this job, but I need to graduate in order to do that. But I don't have the money to finish.

Mike Segawa [00:36:10]: She needed $300 is what she needed, I think. So I had funds to be able to do that as most deans and VPs do. We have some money. So I was able to provide her with $300, and she could finish the summer session. So she thanked me profusely, left my office, walked outside. And she was walking by my office on the outside, and she didn't realize I could see her. She was literally jumping up and down and wiping tears away from her eyes. $300 did that, but it was a huge reminder to me of why we do this work, what's important in the work, and the joy that we can get from it, no matter how complicated the jobs have become and no matter how stressful they are, there can always be these reminders of what's really important and what sustains us in the work when we have that kind of interaction with one student, in this case, for a few $100.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:02]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:37:08]: Thanks, Jill. Really excited to be back in the NASPA world, and there's a lot happening in NASPA. The full registration for the 2025 NASPA Annual Conference is open. And that means housing is open as well. So if you are planning to attend the 2025 NASPA Annual Conference in New Orleans, This is the time to get in and get all squared away with your full registration with free conference workshops and housing and everything else. Take advantage of the early rate until December 18th. For those of you that are looking at attending, the conference programs will be held at the New Orleans Ernest and Morial, Ernest and Morial Convention Center, and the Hilton New Orleans Riverside. Sleeping rooms are available in a number of hotels close to the convention center and the Hilton.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:38:04]: There's also a large number of pre conference workshops that are available for attendees of the 2025 NASPA annual conference that includes half day, full day, and multiple day pre conference workshops. These learning sessions will take place on Saturday, March 15th, and Sunday, March 16th. You can register for a pre conference workshop to join colleagues and experts for an opportunity to discuss important and timely topics in-depth. Now do note that pre conference workshops do require an additional registration and fee and are not included in the main annual conference registration. Most pre conference workshops are an add on to the main conference registration, which means that you must register, you must be registered for the 2025 NASPA Annual Conference in order to register for a pre conference workshop. The exceptions to that include the International Symposium, the Community College Institute, and the Undergraduate Student Conference. The Public Policy Division just released a update on a number of different public policy issues that are impacting our campuses. Earlier this month, both the House and Senate approved the short term continuing resolution extending federal government funding at fiscal year 2024 levels until December 20th, 2024.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:39:14]: This move signed into law by president Biden prevents a government shutdown and pushes budget discussions beyond the 2024 presidential election. For higher education, the CR maintains funding for the Department of Education at current levels. Looking forward, the binding, the Biden administration FY 25 budget request includes eliminating origination fees on federal student loans and increasing the maximum Pell Grant by $750 As house appropriations chair, Tom Cole indicated, the outcome of the presidential election will significantly influence whether Congress finalizes a full year funding deal in December or opts for another temporary measure. On September 24, 2024, the house also passed HR 5646, the Stop Campus Hazing Act, a bipartisan bill aimed at enhancing student safety by mandating that universities report hazing incidents under the Clery Act and implementing hazing prevention programs. The bill also requires that institutions disclose which student organizations have a history of hazing incidents, increasing transparency and allowing students and parents to make informed decisions. The measure is now headed to the Senate for approval and if passed, it would become the 1st federal anti hazing law. The College Cost Reduction Act or CCRA introduced in January 2024 continues to gain traction with 153 House sponsors pushing it forward. However, while the bill aims to re aims to reduce college costs, it may increase student loan burdens and weaken institutional accountability by repealing the gainful employment and 90.10 rules and limiting debt relief for students impacted by institutional closures.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:40:54]: The outcome of the November elections will likely shape the future of this legislation. The education department also extended the deadline for colleges to report program level data for gainful employment and financial value transparency from October 1, 2024 to January 15, 2025 to accommodate challenges with the new FAFSA rollout. The reported data will be used to evaluate program value, including graduates ability to repay loans and earnings compared to non college graduates. While supportive of the delay, advocacy groups stress the importance of timely implementation to provide students with critical information for making informed decisions.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:41:33]: Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself, where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, Hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association, and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:42:53]: Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:58]: Chris, thank you so much for always keeping us updated on what's going on in and around NASPA. And, Mike, we have reached our lightning round portion of the show. I have 7 questions for you to answer in about 90 seconds.

Mike Segawa [00:43:10]: Okay.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:11]: Alright. Question number 1. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

Mike Segawa [00:43:17]: Center Field by John Fogarty. It's a baseball song. And this is gonna sound weird, but I also told my wife, at my memorial service, this is what I want played. So it's not only my walk up song, but it's my walk off song too.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:30]: Number 2, when you were 5 years old, what did you wanna be when you grew up?

Mike Segawa [00:43:33]: Astronaut.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:34]: Number 3, who's your most influential professional mentor?

Mike Segawa [00:43:37]: That's a great question. I would say Greg Roberts was one of them, Grant Sherwood at Colorado State, and most recently, president I served at Puget Sound for 13 years, Ron Thomas.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:48]: Number 4, your essential student affairs read.

Mike Segawa [00:43:53]: Any book by George Kuh. And I say that now, and I will deny it to George because I always give George a hard time. I always say, people think you're really smart, George. You're not as smart as they think you are. And he goes, well, I know that, but they keep buying my stuff. So but, yeah, anything written by George, I always paid attention to.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:44:13]: Number 5, the best TV show you've been binging lately.

Mike Segawa [00:44:16]: Lessons in chemistry.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:44:17]: Number 6, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

Mike Segawa [00:44:21]: You know what? It is a local sports station in Seattle.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:44:25]: And finally, number 7, any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional?

Mike Segawa [00:44:29]: Yeah. Well, Mary, my wife, and I, we have been married now for 42 years, and she is also a former student affairs person. So she put up with a lot over the course of our 42 years of marriage. So that's the biggest shout out. After that, the staffs that I worked with at what was then Central Missouri State University and then University of Washington and especially at University of Puget Sound and at Evergreen State College where I spent the most time, those folks were hugely important to me in my life and profession and totally enjoyable. And then at Pitzer College, where I spent most of the last 3 years, amazing places to work because of the amazing people there.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:06]: Mike, I really appreciate you taking time out of retired life to come back and share your wisdom with the NASPA community. If anyone would appreciate your mentorship as well in the future, how can they find you?

Mike Segawa [00:45:16]: It's easy, Jill. It's a little old school. Email is great. My address, it's in, the NASPA directory if they wanna get there, but it's also it's just [email protected].

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:27]: Mike, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and your voice with us today.

Mike Segawa [00:45:31]: You're welcome, Jill. Had great fun here.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:37]: This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field brought to you by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to be grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email us at sa voices at naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill l Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a 5 star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It truly does help other student affairs pros find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:15]: That's me. Produced and audio engineered by doctor Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

In this episode of "SA Voices from the Field," Melissa Manuel, a seasoned student affairs professional with extensive international experience, offers valuable insights into creating more efficient, collaborative, and holistic systems within higher education. Here are some key takeaways from her conversation.

Bridging Gaps Through Service and Collaboration

Melissa Manuel emphasizes the importance of fostering community involvement among students who cannot afford traditional courses by offering them roles within the institution. This not only helps these students receive education but also instills a sense of service and dedication, aligning them closely with the institution's vision and mission. The integration of such methods shows promise in creating a more inclusive and invested student community.

Leveraging Global Perspectives

Manuel advocates for a more holistic and international approach to research and collaboration within student affairs. By looking beyond local data and considering global perspectives, institutions can vastly improve their policies and initiatives. This approach also ensures that practices are culturally inclusive and innovative, benefiting from the diversity of thought from various parts of the world.

Technological Advancements and AI Integration

One of the compelling areas of discussion was the application of AI and digital tools to streamline administrative processes. Manuel highlights the potential of AI in automating tasks such as scanning transfer credits and reading transcripts, thereby saving valuable time and reducing human error. She also points out the slow adoption of such technologies in higher education and urges institutions to become more open to these advancements for greater efficiency and effectiveness.

Developing Holistic Student Systems

In her current role, Manuel is working towards creating holistic and interconnected systems that integrate student affairs with academic affairs. These systems aim to provide a seamless experience for students, similar to the comprehensive view offered by K-12 teachers. By breaking down silos between departments and encouraging collaboration, institutions can ensure that every student's journey is well-supported and aligned with institutional goals.

Personalized Learning and Data-Driven Solutions

Melissa also touched on how AI and data analysis can create tailored learning experiences. By understanding students' interests and areas of difficulty, AI can recommend curriculum adjustments and additional resources, providing a more personalized education. Additionally, data analysis can uncover trends, such as geographical challenges faced by students, leading to solutions like increased online course offerings.

Empowering Students Through Experiential Learning

Drawing from her entrepreneurial experience, Manuel supports models of experiential learning where students are actively involved in managing projects and initiatives. This hands-on approach not only provides practical experience but also promotes a sense of ownership and adaptability among students, preparing them for real-world challenges.

To round off the episode, Melissa thanks everyone who has impacted her professional journey and emphasizes the critical role of collaboration within student affairs. Listeners are encouraged to engage with her on LinkedIn or via email for further discussions.

By incorporating these innovative practices and fostering a collaborative environment, higher education institutions can better support their students' holistic development and success.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:00]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you happen to be. This is season 11, the past, present, and future of student affairs, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton, she, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. On today's episode of Essay Voices, we welcome Melissa Manuel. Melissa has over 17 years of experience in higher education across 5 countries and 7 institutions. Having worked for 4 startup institutions in the Arabian Gulf, Melissa is familiar with how internationalization, multicultural working environments, pedagogy, and student success comes together in a variety of combinations to support student and institutional success. Her experience has also bred familiarity with many student and academic affairs best practices, as well as practical considerations and implementation outside of our common practices. Melissa will be talking to us today about starting up a brand new institution, building systems from scratch.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:07]: So in our theme of the past, present, and future of student affairs, Melissa brings rich experience to this dialogue. Hope you enjoy it. Melissa, welcome to SA Voices.

Melissa Manuel [00:01:16]: Thank you very much, Jill. I am very excited to be here.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:19]: It's always such a delight for me to get to talk to our international guests, and tell us where you are joining us from today.

Melissa Manuel [00:01:26]: Today, I am in Saudi Arabia.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:28]: And Melissa is at a not to be named at this point institution that is building and growing in the role of registrar. So, Melissa, can you tell us how you got to your current seat?

Melissa Manuel [00:01:39]: Well, that's a long story, but one full of lots of twists and turns. So I did begin working in higher education in Canada for quite a few years while I was doing my undergrad degree. And then I got an opportunity to work in Qatar where I worked for 2 institutions. And then I moseyed on over to Saudi about 6 years ago, and now I'm in Northern Saudi Arabia. So total, I've got about 17 years in higher education between 3 countries, but with the 2 extra degrees are outside the countries that I've worked in, probably a total of 5 countries.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:09]: That's amazing. So what are the other two countries on the list?

Melissa Manuel [00:02:12]: So my master's degree was done in the United Kingdom, and I'm currently doing my PhD in the United States.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:18]: So like many of our international guests, especially expat international guests, you've had a journey that has taken you through multiple cultural contexts. And that's one of the reasons that I'm thrilled to be talking to you on our past, present, and future theme because you've kind of seen the way that higher ed is playing out in a variety of different contexts. So what can you tell us right now about the context for higher education and student affairs in the kingdom of Saudi Arabia?

Melissa Manuel [00:02:42]: That's a really great question. So student affairs, I would say specifically in Saudi, and I would extend that toward the Greater Arabian Gulf, doesn't exactly exist as a profession just yet. You do see more of a student affairs presence in a lot of branch campuses to international institutions, especially the American ones where student affairs really does have a strong preference. But for the most part, it is a growing area. But what you see in those areas is a lot more in in institutional collaboration because student affairs doesn't exist on its own, but it's really wrapped up in academic affairs or student services or student success, which is what you see, especially even in a lot of Asian institutions where student success will really encompass both the registrarials type of side where we're looking at registration and letters and support. And then also the student affairs type of side that we see where we have student clubs and activities, internships, career support counseling. So it's really more of a holistic feeling, I would say, in this region. But with that, it does have a lot of room to grow, which is really wonderful and to be part of that foundation.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:45]: Having done this work in the Canadian context, which, from my limited knowledge looks a little closer to US based student affairs work. What can you say in the compare and contrast space about what you love about this holistic student success model you're working in, and what you wish might look a little closer to the system that you grew up in?

Melissa Manuel [00:04:04]: In Canada, I would agree that student affairs at least is a lot more similar to the United States student affairs type of systems. However, on the registrarial side, so I'm currently a university registrar. It is actually a lot more holistic in the Canadian context where you generally have a registrar's office that serves both admissions and enrollment and records. Whereas in the United States, you'll have admission because it's so tied to funding as a separate entity. And I think there can be a lot lost between those different groups, whereas in Canada, I do see that a lot more closer. In my current context, I see all of those mingling together a lot more, which is really wonderful. Because again, it provides, I think, a stronger and more holistic student experience because you're more familiar with the journey that those students have come from. You know where they were recruited from.

Melissa Manuel [00:04:52]: You maybe know what kind of cultural context they're coming from. You've seen them go through admissions. You've seen them go through registration and maybe some of the points that they had at the point of initial registration and orientation where maybe they had a lot of family support or parental guidance. And you can kinda watch that and see how that's affected their student journey and where they go through clubs, what interests them, what their career paths are because you've seen how those other factors have influenced their choices and their interests. So that's what I do really love here, and I would like to actually see more of that collaborative holistic student experience in other countries as well.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:27]: What does that look like structurally? I think when we look at US and Canadian higher ed student affairs structures, they're kind of established and matured now and a little bit solidified in a lot of ways in terms of the way that the work is pretty vertical, meaning that we've got people that are specialized in various functional areas. And those areas of specialization have really become their own mini professions at this point. We're seeing far less generalists in student affairs than we used to. And I think that is creating some unique pathways into mid and senior level leadership as well because some of those skill sets mean that we don't necessarily get exposed to other parts of the profession. So I'm hoping you can share more about what that means to truly be more integratively collaborative.

Melissa Manuel [00:06:12]: Well, definitely the background of what you see student affairs professionals coming in internationally, and I would say that not just for the Arabian Gulf, but in many different regions. Australia is a really good example of that because they don't have a strong student affairs type of system. A lot of their local students don't live on campus, so student affairs is actually really integrated with their curriculum development. So same as in Australia as you see here, and I would suggest a lot of Asian institutions as well as maybe European too, that you can see people coming into student affairs at fairly senior levels without any experience in higher education, but maybe they come from counseling backgrounds or career development services or maybe student clubs or recreation. You see a lot of that as well. And it is really interesting having worked for very young institutions to see how the individuals that are coming in with those very particular backgrounds outside of student affairs have influenced the structures internally and the way that the university goes, what kind of resources are given because they see those things as priority in many cases. And I really like to see that because I do think it provides a more individual, a different type of set of circumstances that students can kind of go towards, and there's more influence because maybe if you'd haven't worked in student affairs, then you're more keen to see what your stakeholders have to say because you haven't been exposed to that before. And so I think that's something that's really special here, and I think it provides an opportunity for innovation because we're not so tied to maybe the education and the history that we've gone through.

Melissa Manuel [00:07:40]: I do think that there can be some things that are lost obviously in translation in understanding what that student experience means and how it can really change a student's life. So I do think there again, there are going to be pros and cons. In terms of structures, generally, what I have seen, and it really depends on if an institution is a homegrown local institution or they are a branch campus. Homegrown local institution or they are a branch campus, particularly if they're US branch campus or even a Canadian branch campus. But what I have seen a lot of the times is you'll have a director of enrollment or a director of student services or student success. Sometimes this individual might be a manager or they might even be a VP. And then from there, you'll have people that are working on specific areas, but really they're all reporting to the same individual. And I think that's something that can be challenging in the US context is that generally, you'll have student affairs or a dean of students reporting up one side and then you'll have the academic side of the house, academic affairs that are dealing with policies.

Melissa Manuel [00:08:36]: So this is an administrative side of the academic house that's going up the academic side and they don't really talk to one another. So what I have seen in my own experience is a little bit of a mismatch sometimes when it comes to the institutional voice, how policies are put into practice, and how things work in general, and the type of support I think that students can get. I think this has been fixed a lot with a one stop shop that we see with a lot of institutions now. But I do still think that there's not as much communication as there does need to be because with the student experience, it's a holistic experience. And in particular, there's some really great research that has shown that students, and this is in the US, that American students feel a lot more comfortable asking for any type of career kind of support or academic support from their faculty versus the specialists that are working in, let's say academic advising. And there's a few different reasons I think for that. One is the passion, of course, that's gonna bring faculty to the table anyway. But also, I think that they have a greater understanding of that kind of holistic map of where a student can go, where somebody in it specifically in advising may be able to say, okay.

Melissa Manuel [00:09:40]: These are the courses that you can take, but can they tell you maybe this person's doing a startup over here and you should try that, or this institution is looking at some kind of commercial engagement that might be of interest to you. And so they have a more specialized map because they're specialists, and we're kind of losing that I think overall holistic vision, which we don't know what's most important to students. So I do think a holistic vision in my point of view, I think is preferable.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:03]: There's 2 things I've always said to team members that I've worked with, which is, you know, the students don't care how we're organized. They don't care who reports to who. They don't care really what funding streams are going to x, y, and z sometimes. Sometimes they do. But the reality is the the anchor of the point of care for a student is what is their experience on the campus. And they don't differentiate between an in and outside of the classroom experience on a US campus. They look holistically, as you've mentioned, what is my experience as a student at this institution? And that whole picture is what paints their entire experience from, you know, entry to degree. So this is a an approach I think a lot of institutions are working towards in the US, trying to make more fluid some of those boundaries that have somehow become a little harder over time.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:49]: And I'll give a shout out to Chris Lewis, our co producer and audio engineer on this show, because he is the NASPA, I believe, co chair of the SAPA knowledge community, which is student affairs partnering with academic affairs. And the goal there is kind of the same thing, to soften some of those boundaries. But I also know for a lot of the US based professionals, those boundaries we seek to soften them, and we're not necessarily met with that same idea from some of our partners on the academic affairs side. So I'm wondering if you could talk a little bit more about how you've worked with your colleagues to soften some of those boundaries.

Melissa Manuel [00:11:22]: Absolutely. And I 100% agree with you, with what you just said. And also shout out to Chris too. So I actually did attend a Sapa meeting. I think it was last year because I did wanna become part of that team, but then I became a member at large on a finance committee for ACRO, the American Association For Collegiate Registrars. And so I couldn't really do both, but I absolutely agree with the work that Chris is doing and making sure that academic is partnering with student affairs and vice versa. So some of the things that I have done, and I will admit it has been a lot easier, I think, for me than you might see in other institutions because I tend to work for very small start up institutions and ones that are very young. So there's not a lot of history that suggests only this side of the house can deal with this and only that kind of side of the house can deal with that because we haven't faced a lot of those issues to be able to determine those pathways.

Melissa Manuel [00:12:12]: So again, I think it has been a little bit easier for me. Because they're small or because the institutions I've worked had have been small, I have made a very strong effort to meet individually with every single stakeholder that is in my institution. So, my previous institution, the registrar's office that I was working at didn't have the best reputation and just for servicing stakeholders and that especially came from faculty. So I really made it my mission to take every single faculty member 1 on 1 out for coffee just to understand their point of view. And it was really a kind of a two way street. So I was able to really write down a lot of the priorities that they had had and be able to clarify some of the reasons maybe why certain certain things weren't happening in a certain way because maybe their population or maybe of their students or what they wanted was only gonna service, let's say, 0.5% of our student demographic. So where are those resources going? And then also to be able to explain some of the reasons why we've done things and maybe where it is on the priority list of changing it in the future. And I have done that also with a lot of my colleagues on the student affairs side.

Melissa Manuel [00:13:14]: And then again, when it comes to any type of project, I really try and make sure that we're sharing that. And a really good example is between the academic catalog and the academic hand or the student handbook. So one of the things that I did in one of my previous institutions was I rewrote the entire academic catalog with the support of my office and our senior academic leadership. But because we were changing everything there, we really needed to have an understanding of how those policies affected other areas. So each department as well as the, let's say, student rule regulations. So for example, a student goes on a leave of absence, can they still be, let's say, a leader of their student club? So So things like that and where those pathways kind of go. And so what I would do is I went and showed all the changes to and circulated amongst my student affairs colleagues, and then they were able to go through it and provide feedback. And then we also responded to that feedback, and we had plenty of meetings to help understand kinda where we needed to work together.

Melissa Manuel [00:14:09]: And again, really trying to find that one institutional voice, making sure we're using language that really makes sense. And so they started doing the same thing for us when they were going through the student handbook. We would go through it as well and say, oh, you know what? We've actually changed this, or we're looking at this, and maybe you can change that here because we had this feedback from over there. And it really became a lot easier for students, I think, to find information that was consistent across both sides, and then we were both sides were aware of why certain things were the way that they were because that's nothing that a student wants to hear is to say, oh, this doesn't work, and then somebody say, well, that department is just terrible. And so it really provided a learning opportunity for both sides, and we would have regular meetings. So that's one of the things that I really do appreciate as well is regular touch points. Even if it's just something to say, you know, my department is totally loaded right now. We're super busy and then I can say, you know what? I've got some stuff.

Melissa Manuel [00:14:56]: Let me just back off a little bit. I'll give you a little bit of space. So being able to really read what your departments are going through and recognize that at the end of the day, especially when it comes to administrative functions, in my view, we are there to service our stakeholders who service the vision or mission of the institution. And that's our job is to work together. And if we're not working together, are we really doing our jobs in the best way possible? And that sometimes does mean taking a step back on putting budgets forward or putting initiatives forward to say, does this actually serve the best interest? And I think that can be hard for a lot of individuals across the board in any country, but really to take a step back and making sure that we understand what we're there to do at the end of the day. One of the

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:34]: most interesting things to me about your career is that you've gotten to build systems a lot from scratch. And taking what you know from your educational background, your domestic context in Canada, your educational context in the UK, now in the US as well, and your lived experiences in the Gulf Coast region. So knowing all of that and kind of looking at that very unique melange of all of these things, when you build a system, what are the parts that you're keeping that you are excited about and you know that work for you? And what are the parts that you're going, we need to jettison this for either cultural context reasons or because we don't need to replicate something that might not be working as well as it could be?

Melissa Manuel [00:16:12]: Are you meaning student systems in terms of more technology side or in practice or a little bit of both?

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:16:18]: Could be any of those things, I think.

Melissa Manuel [00:16:20]: For systems, I think along the lines of where we're going with technology and digitalization is making sure things data entry is really easy. I really don't like having to put my own staff into roles where they're just taking something from one document and manually typing it into a system. So really trying to automate that, and then if that has to happen, is saying, okay, is this really worth the time for you to do this and what we're going to get out of that? And even if we can find maybe Band Aid solutions where we use AI tools to maybe auto scan, let's say, for transfer credit purposes, we auto scan all the transfer credit reports that have maybe manually been done. There's gonna be errors, but are those errors worth having manual entry versus allowing those errors to survive in the documentation and the reports, but making sure that now we've just changed what would be a 2 week process to an hour. So trying to balance that as much as possible, and then in moving forward, making sure that we are accounting for that, the best use of our time and the way that we're using things. When it comes to any kind of system, I am really wanting everybody involved or to at least have an opportunity to talk about whatever we're doing and put their opinions forward. So for example, I'm in the process of building an academic calendar for my new institution, which is a really fun process. Are we semester? Do we have terms? Do we have quarters? What What kind of credit value systems are we gonna have? What type of grading is gonna come out of that? And one of the things that I've seen at a lot of the institutions that I've worked for is a lack of history on how those decisions were made and who was able to put their opinions forward.

Melissa Manuel [00:17:52]: So what I have done or tried to do and continue to do is to put together all the benchmarking that I can find. Say within this cultural context and within the where we are today, this is a couple of opportunities for us and then this is my recommendation. And then I circulate that out and I collect all the feedback both in person and in writing, and I put all that together, collate that. And then I do respond to various things, and some individuals will have opinions that maybe that's great, and I have recorded them down even if I don't agree with them or other people don't agree with them because then there at least there's a history to know if we did look at that or not, and maybe why we chose not to go in that direction. And I think that really helps to build a better understanding of maybe the concerns or challenges that people have and the different stakeholders will have when it comes to building these types of of systems. When it comes to policies and processes, so actually for NASPA next year, I did put together a proposal to talk about these types of things when it comes to collaboration and how you go through that. And it is a lot of work to make sure that those systems are in line across the university, but it makes such a big difference when it works for all stakeholders and then all reporting opportunities. And so I'd love to actually go into detail.

Melissa Manuel [00:19:00]: I've got so many details on on how to do that, but a lot of it just really takes relationship building across institutions, and I think it takes when it comes to that relationship building piece, is really taking a step back to not defend your department or defend your position, but to say, okay, these are the current concerns they have, and my job is to try and see how I can compromise in a way that really supports the stakeholder, maybe educate a little bit to understand. So maybe some things are accredited related. I don't have control over that, but we need to meet accreditation requirements, so we have to do it a certain way. Or saying, you know what? They do it, and they have a really different ideas. Let's see if I can benchmark to see how it's worked in other institutions. And the other thing that I find is really helpful working for a lot of startup institutions, and I think the NASPA Student Affairs community is so good at this, is having relationships at other institutions to be able to benchmark, and not only benchmark, but to say, okay, I've benchmarked this, you do it like this, what is your opinion on it? Does it work for you? And really get a in-depth feel of how things are going to affect your student stakeholders. So I know that was a little bit of a roundabout, coming back to how those systems work, and I know that's a very general way of doing that. But when it comes to technology, at least, I think everybody's in line with that is we want things that make sense, that don't take a lot of time, that are easy to read, and that can configure across all different types of departments and areas in a way that people understand.

Melissa Manuel [00:20:21]: And I'll just give a quick example of what that means is defining certain things. So I think the word matriculation, for example, or even admitted student or registered student, that maybe sound, oh, yeah, I know what that means. Yes, maybe generally you do, but on a reporting level, that can have many different meanings. I think it's really important that the systems that you're putting together are predefined and making sure everybody is aware of what those things mean when those things come out because I think that's where a lot of issues do arise.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:48]: What is a student is a question I've wrestled through at a couple of different institutions in my career because we do mean something different if we're talking to our admissions team than if we're talking to our registrar team than if we're talking to our student conduct and behavioral intervention teams. How we define that student has many, many implications. And it's interesting that you get to wrestle with that question from the moment, one, before the student has even arrived. I wanted to ask you a little bit about because you mentioned technology, if you had begun to integrate any forms of artificial intelligence or AI into the work you're doing since you are building this system from the ground up?

Melissa Manuel [00:21:24]: Short answer is yes. Again, I think we're very lucky working for new institutions to be able to use that technology very early on, and there's been some really great research out there. So IASIS, the International Association of Student Affairs and Services, also did a really great work last year looking at how student affairs professionals felt with technology and what type of technology they were using and where they see that going. And I think that's really a fabulous way to start to kinda get the temperature of where student affairs is and where higher ed is. In general, and I I think even regardless of what research has shown, higher education in general can be really tricky when it comes to using these types of tools. And Brian Rosenberg came out with a really great article last year, entitled Higher Eds Ruinous Resistance to Change because realistically, we are really slow and that does mean that we have been a little bit slower in other areas as well. That doesn't mean that we're not gonna get there but I think just having to use that technology, we're a little bit more behind because we don't have enough experience using it and where we can use it and where it's beneficial to use it. So some of the areas that have been of interest to me and my team is using AI to look at transcripts, to be able to auto read transcripts and be able to maybe make admission decisions or at least preliminary decisions a little bit quicker.

Melissa Manuel [00:22:41]: Maybe looking at transfer credit. What I would love to be able to see is request for transfer credits or equivalencies, be able to have AI be able to actually say, okay, this is the course. I've looked online. I found this description. I have the syllabi. What are the equivalencies, maybe, globally that could be used and whether that course potentially could be used for transfer credit and then providing that maybe as a manual check afterward with our faculty to be able to say, okay, this is accurate or not. So we don't have a lot of those databases really full yet to be able to, I think, have a lot of confidence in those uses, but it is there. Personalized learning.

Melissa Manuel [00:23:14]: So if a student is interested in something, they maybe can provide goals or interests or activities they enjoy, and then have AI be able to create curriculum and opportunities for them where they can get involved and maybe expand on what they are already interested in. And I think that also can be used for weaknesses as well to say, okay, I've noticed maybe across all these courses that you're writing in statistics, let's say, is a little bit weak. Maybe let's focus on some statistics work so that you can increase in all your courses. So it's not just, oh, you've been struggling in this course, but maybe be able to see holistically across all courses. So things that are harder for people to do manually, to be able to just dump in data and be able to provide trends to say, oh, look, this demographic of student maybe is struggling because maybe they're commuting from a different way and this highway is actually really bad, and there's a lot of snowstorms or sandstorms there. We need to maybe provide a couple little bit more opportunity for those guys to take online courses or something during those periods. So I think it'd be really interesting to see it be used in ways that we haven't been able to use it in the past. The other thing that we wanted to make sure is that, again, any technology that we're using can speak across the board to other areas.

Melissa Manuel [00:24:27]: And so again, I am defining what it means for a student to be an applicant, what it means for a student to be admitted, what does it mean for a student to be matriculated. And with all those types of definitions, then the system can really put that together because I have seen a lot of different systems be able to provide that information separately, but it means different things. You can't put it together because those systems speak different languages. One speaking Greek where a student means x and another speaking something else where it means y. So really starting from scratch, we've been able to try and make sure that we're speaking the same institutional and reporting types of language. That's very administrative, but it can make a very big difference for ensuring that we are knowing the trends of our students, and then being able to react and change appropriately, and pivot a little more quickly, which again, I think has been a really big struggle for higher education to be able to do.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:14]: Melissa, I wanna move towards our theme questions for this season. Again, we're focused on the past, present, and future of student affairs. We've had a wonderful conversation about the present. So I'm gonna ask you about the past. What's one component of the history of our profession that you think we need to be able to carry forward or inversely something we need to let go of?

Melissa Manuel [00:25:32]: I think we've already talked a little bit about this, but that holistic sense and that one on one relationship as, I mean, and this is going to happen in any type of industry and you see this a lot in corporations, is that as industries and organizations grow, that individual connection potentially gets lost because students are now numbers, they're not people, and we're focused on our KPIs. We're focused on our outcomes rather than really maybe success just means that a student had a wonderful experience. Maybe they were a b student, and maybe they have done very ordinary things that an institution doesn't feel is really, wow, big KBI check. But having made a big difference in a student's life, I think that is just as important, and I know that makes it difficult when it comes to measuring an organization's success. But I think for anybody working in this field and passionate about this field that they understand that. So I would like to see a little bit more of maybe that jack of all trades come back where individuals and staff can actually follow students throughout their cycle and build that relationship. And you can see that with with teachers as well, and let's say k to 12 types of systems is that one teacher that really believed in that student and followed them through. Even though they're maybe no longer that student's teacher, they're still a part of that life, that student's life.

Melissa Manuel [00:26:40]: And when the student graduates, they come back to that teacher and say, wow, you made a really big difference. So I would like to see more of that. I think to do that, I think we need to try and break silos, which again I do think is happening. So when it comes to a trend of student affairs, I do see that. I think we might also be more forced to try and move in that direction for a few different reasons. One is budget. You'll see a lot of institutions, especially in the US, are struggling with budget cuts. And the first place that we tend to see that often is in, I think, in student activities and student affairs.

Melissa Manuel [00:27:09]: So if we're more collaborative and working with other units a little bit more holistically, then I think that becomes a little bit easier. I think that again, there's a lot of opportunity and learning between students and staff that we can have, and having again lifelong learners as well coming through and making sure that we are adhering to that type of model. And then the other trend that I would like to see and continue to see is the international student mobility piece. So there are a lot of increasing opportunities for students to travel abroad and register with a variety of institutions, and again, I think this provides an opportunity for that more holistic piece because we're bringing a lot of new flavors to student affairs because now we're catering to incoming international students, and we ourselves, like me, might not might be non native to the country that we're working in. And then we're also catering to the outgoing students who maybe need some cultural training for wherever they plan to go. And I think that's a natural progression with globalization as well.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:04]: Moving into the present, what's happening in the field of student affairs right now that is going well?

Melissa Manuel [00:28:09]: Something that I would absolutely love to bring into Saudi, and I do think that there will be an opportunity to do this, and we're starting to see some younger, more innovative institutions do this, and I think it's great, is making a more student driven student affairs. So for example, student affairs organizations, they want to set up clubs and they want spaces and provide resources and they really want to give students everything they possibly can, and I think that's great. But research does show that people are far more invested in programs when they have been part of developing them. So I'd like to see student affairs become more a facilitator for students to grow their own programs, and then also manage them, providing students with the opportunity for learning through maybe business management, procurement, budgeting, leadership, succession planning, and really handing over, putting that all together might be a little more messy. But it gives something that you just can't get through regular curriculum or if somebody has given you all those things to start with and you don't understand or maybe appreciate the value of what you have. Then I also think that that would allow organizations to pivot and change more easily as the student demographics change and maybe as society changes. When institutions, for example, they spend resources, let's say, on building a state of the art maker space, they've hired staff to run it, they've got managers, they have all the supplies, they're maybe more likely to keep that investment. But if students ask for that space, they staff it, they maybe do the fundraising to get those materials.

Melissa Manuel [00:29:31]: It is now their project. The students that are governing that space can then pivot and recognize change again a lot faster than I think institutions can. In Texas, there's been a new, I think actually it's a k twelve system, but it's affiliated with a college in Texas called Opportunity Central, where students run businesses that are used by all the community members like a mall, and they have everything on the 1st floor of the school within the traditional classrooms above. And there's a lot of non student based businesses there that also get reduced lease costs, lease costs if they mentor students. And that for me is the ideal example of collaboration at its finest because you're maximizing experiential opportunities for students in almost every way imaginable. And then you're also minimizing weaknesses like reliance on external vendors that may not care or cooperate with stakeholders, and then also reducing overall operational costs. And I will, as a side note, say I am an entrepreneur. I have owned my own businesses, and one of the things that I love to do is time for pay.

Melissa Manuel [00:30:23]: So if I have clients who want to become more involved and maybe limited in some way, whether that's time, money, opportunity, etcetera, I offer an exchange. So for example, if a student cannot pay for courses, they can help with some of the administrative burden like responding to emails and checking other students in. And in this way, they are becoming more a part of the community and are invested in the services they are providing because they're more familiar with the client base. While I, as the company fulfill a need that I would have to pay for anyway, but I'm far more likely to get a more dedicated employee because they have an understanding and empathy in a way that maybe an external individual would not. So I think there's a lot you can do to gain a lot of experience, but then also reduce those costs that are gonna come with those things. And so I think there's things that can happen on both sides. I'd love to see the future of student affairs move in that direction and the future of institutions really to move in that direction.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:15]: And as we're talking about the future, in an ideal world, what does our profession need to do to thrive towards the future?

Melissa Manuel [00:31:22]: I I'm gonna bring it back to, I think, a a word that I probably said too much, but collaboration. And I think that comes with more research into what we can do better, more research into our stakeholders, and more reading of research and ideas outside of our own regions. So for example, I am doing my PhD in the States right now, and I do recognize I am doing it in United States, and therefore, it is an American type of model that I'm looking at. But there's so much great research that's coming out from other regions and countries that are doing things differently. And what I have actually come back to my institution about is to say, we need to use that a little bit more. And really, I think a lot of the student affairs degrees that are coming out really should take more of a holistic look at the research that is in other areas. It may not be applicable, but it might just be that light bulb to say, wow, you know, we could do it like that or maybe that's an idea we could backpack it and change it in some way. So really again coming more into that globalization type of sphere because again we're gonna have international students from all over anyway and employees are moving all over.

Melissa Manuel [00:32:15]: And again just building that collaborative, I think, environment for wanting to do a better job and really learning to change maybe a little bit more quickly is what I think we need to be able to thrive as an industry and as a profession.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:27]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:33]: Thanks, Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world, and there's a lot of things happening in NASPA. The NASPA strategies conference provides student affairs professionals with the knowledge and skills to effectively address collegiate alcohol and drug misuse prevention, mental health, sexual violence prevention and response peer education and well-being through a variety of comprehensive and integrative approaches. Registration is now open for the 2025 NASPA Strategies Conference, which is happening January 16th through January 18th in Boston, Massachusetts. In Boston, Massachusetts. Early registration deadline is closing on October 29th. So you still have time to register for this amazing conference and save some money along the way. This will be an amazing conference for anyone that is interested in alcohol and other drugs, mental health, peer education, sexual violence prevention, and more.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:33:27]: I highly encourage you to check it out on the NASPA website. The 2025 NASPA Symposium on Military Connected Students is the association premier event designed for student affairs practitioners supporting military connected students. The symposium is your exclusive opportunity to share evidence based practices from your campus or organization. You can learn from leading researchers in the field and engage with other professionals committed to supporting military connected students. This is a 3 day symposium which features keynote speakers, keynote sessions, research policy and best practice presentations and workshop style sessions to help campus professionals develop or enhance their programming and services for military connected students. This symposium is happening on February 18th to February 20th in Las Vegas, Nevada. Early registration closes on December 16, 2024. You can find out more on the NASPA website.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:23]: The fall 2024 issue of Leadership Exchange is available, and this issue is focused entirely on democracy

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:27]: on campus. Throughout the entire issue, you're going to find strategies to cultivate active and engaged citizens. There's a number of amazing articles from people all over the country that will open your eyes to ways in which you can engage students on your own campus as we enter into the final weeks of a very busy fall season, especially in regard to democracy on campus. I highly encourage you to check it out. You can go under publications on the NASPA website to find the Leadership Exchange and be able to read the articles for yourself or share it with another colleague. It is October and that means it is careers in student affairs month. And throughout this month, there have been a number of opportunities, events that are geared toward not only providing you with a good glimpse on our profession, but also to encourage others to consider our profession. We've got a number of great presentations still coming up this month.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:33]: These opportunities are free and you can register yourself or register some of your students for them. On October 16th, we have a presentation at 3 pm Eastern. We have a presentation called Pathways to Becoming an Assistant or Associate Vice President of student affairs. If you're eager to advance in leadership roles within student affairs, the panel will discuss the essential skills, experiences, and strategies necessary to transition successfully from a mid level position to an assistant or associate VP role. On October 22nd, navigating the challenges of being a new professional in student affairs. In this informative session, you can join the mid level administration and new professional and graduate student steering committee to talk about the challenges, opportunities, and strategies for navigating the challenges faced in navigating the field as a new professional or graduate student. On October 24th, tap in and turn me up. Learn more about careers and student affairs in this session.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:36:35]: It is, this session is designed exclusively for undergraduate students interested in the profession of student affairs. If you've got undergraduate students at your own campus that are interested in our profession, this is the session for your students to take advantage of. Also on October 24th, we'll be having a social. The NASPA CSAM social is an informal event space for participants that connect with other new professionals and graduate student members and explore connections that bring together the field of student affairs. And then finally, October 30th, 2024, state of student affairs, a conversation with NASPA president, Doctor. Amelia Pardell and NASPA board chair, Chair Doctor. Ana Gonzalez for a discussion on the current state of student affairs, as well as the future of the field from the perspective of association leadership. I hope you'll be able to take advantage of some of these different sessions and learn about our profession, learn about ways in which you can engage further in our profession and get other people engaged in our profession.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:37:36]: Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association, and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:01]: Chris, thank you so much for sharing with us what's going on in and around NASPA. And, Melissa, we are with our lightning round now. I have 7 questions for you in about 90 seconds. Ready to go? Yes. Alright. Question 1. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

Melissa Manuel [00:39:18]: Born to be wild.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:19]: Number 2. When you were 5 years old, what did you want to be when you grew up?

Melissa Manuel [00:39:22]: Not just an actress, but a famous actress.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:25]: Number 3, who's your most influential professional mentor?

Melissa Manuel [00:39:28]: Oh, one of the deans at my previous institution.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:30]: Number 4, your essential student affairs read.

Melissa Manuel [00:39:33]: JSARP, of course.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:34]: Number 5, the best TV show you've been binging lately.

Melissa Manuel [00:39:37]: I actually don't watch TV, but if I did have to choose something to binge, I would probably go back to old and faithful Friends.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:44]: Number 6, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

Melissa Manuel [00:39:48]: Absolutely. The Huberman Lab.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:49]: And finally, any shout outs you'd like to give personal or professional?

Melissa Manuel [00:39:53]: To all the individuals that I've worked with over the years, everybody has made an impact in my life and then therefore into student affairs in general. So thank you to my entire holistic experience. And, Melissa, if anyone would like to connect with you after the show,

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:03]: how can they find you? You can find me on LinkedIn if you

Melissa Manuel [00:40:09]: search Melissa Manuel. You'll see all the history of me working in the Arabian Gulf. I'm always open for a chat. I love connecting with colleagues, with peers, with mentors. Anybody really that wants to chat almost about anything, always there. And you can also contact me via email at melissa [email protected].

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:27]: Melissa, thank you so so much for sharing your voice with us today.

Melissa Manuel [00:40:30]: Thank you very much for having me.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:36]: This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field brought to you by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to be grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email us at sa voices at naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill l Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a 5 star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It truly does help other student affairs pros find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:14]: That's me. Produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

Navigating the Past, Present, and Future with Kamakshi Velamuri

In the latest episode of SA Voices from the Field hosts Dr. Jill Creighton spoke with Kamakshi Velamuri, a rising senior at North Carolina University (NCCU) who aspires to pursue a career in student affairs. The episode, rich with personal stories and professional insights, explores the challenges, triumphs, and future aspirations for higher education professionals. This blog post delves into the key themes discussed during this insightful conversation.

Navigating Educational and Career Paths

Kamakshi's journey into student affairs began with a keen interest in education reform. Initially aspiring to become a teacher, her direction shifted toward becoming an educational consultant and eventually focusing on student affairs. The consistency in her passion for education reform has guided her through these transitions and solidified her commitment to creating a positive impact within the higher education system.

Addressing Challenges in Student Affairs

Kamakshi articulated several key challenges in student affairs:

• Curriculum Issues:

  Standardized testing, GPA concerns, and outdated curriculums need reform.

• Staff and Faculty Challenges:

  Overwork, insufficient staffing, resource constraints, and underpayment are prevalent issues.

• Wage Gap and Economic Challenges:

  Dr. Jill Creighton emphasized the wage gap in the student affairs profession and the anticipated impact of upcoming federal overtime laws.

These challenges underscore the need for systemic changes to ensure well-being and fair compensation for all professionals in the field.

The Importance of Student Support Systems

Kamakshi shared her experiences as a first-generation Asian Indian female student at an HBCU. She discussed the cultural and familial expectations she navigated while pursuing a non-STEM career. Her story highlights the importance of support systems for nontraditional students who face unique challenges. She highlighted experiences of microaggressions and emphasized the role of diversity and inclusion departments, counseling centers, and peer mentoring groups in providing support.

Reflecting on the History and Future of Student Affairs

When discussing the broader scope of student affairs, Kamakshi and the hosts reflected on the importance of learning from the past while addressing ongoing and future concerns. The profession has seen improved collaboration among staff and faculty, leading to better support for students. However, Kamakshi emphasized the necessity of continuous and structured efforts for progress and adaptation.

Shaping the Future: Kamakshi's Vision

Kamakshi's vision for the future of student affairs involves intellectual and practical reform. She advocates for stronger collaboration between student affairs and academic affairs and calls for practical life skills education beyond traditional academics. The need to address economic challenges, mental health issues, and basic needs like housing affordability is crucial for the well-being of contemporary college students.

Building Systemic Change Together

The conversation concluded with Kamakshi's optimistic outlook on long-term systemic change. Dr. Jill Creighton echoed this sentiment, quoting an African proverb: "If you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together." This mantra highlights the collective effort required to bring about meaningful change.

The Lightning Round: Getting to Know Kamakshi

To showcase the lighter side of their guest, Dr. Jill Creighton led Kamakshi Velamuri through a rapid-fire "lightning round":

• Entrance Music for a Keynote:

  "This Girl is on Fire" by Alicia Keys

• Childhood Dream:

  To be a kind, influential person

• Most Influential Mentor:

  Miss Lauren, a board member

• Essential Student Affairs Read:

  None specifically, as she is not keen on reading

• Recent TV Show Binge:

  Occasionally "The Office" for fun

• Favorite Podcast:

  Enjoys yoga, meditation, and nonprofit reform podcasts

• Shout-outs:

  To herself for reaching her current position and to NASPA professionals for their support and respect

These questions offered a glimpse into Kamakshi's personality, hobbies, and the influences that have shaped her journey so far.

Connect with Kamakshi

Listeners inspired by Kamakshi's journey can reach out to her via email at [email protected], [email protected], or connect with her on LinkedIn.

Final Thoughts

This episode of "Dads with Daughters" offers valuable insights into the challenges and future of student affairs through the lens of a passionate and driven young professional. Kamakshi Velamuri's story is a testament to the power of perseverance, support systems, and collective effort in shaping the future of higher education.

About our guest

Kamakshi Velamuri is a rising senior at North Carolina Central University (NCCU), majoring in Interdisciplinary Studies. She founded an education nonprofit in high school to advocate for meaningful reform in the education system. Kamakshi plans to pursue a master's in Higher Education Administration to become a student affairs professional. As a first-generation student leader, Kamakshi brings a unique perspective to the world. Her passion and focus is on driving positive change in education reform.

TRANSCRIPT (Unedited transcript created through Castmagic)

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:00]: KamakshiWelcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you happen to be. This is season 11, the past, present, and future of student affairs, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton, she, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Today on Essay Voices, I'm thrilled to feature an undergraduate student, Kamakshi Velamuri is a rising senior at North Carolina University or NCCU, majoring in interdisciplinary studies. She founded an education nonprofit in high school to advocate for meaningful reform in the education system. Kamakshi plans to pursue a master's in higher ed to become a student affairs professional. As a first generation student leader, Kamakji brings a unique perspective to the world. Her passion and focus is on driving positive change in education reform. Kamakshi, welcome to essay voices from the field.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:00:55]: Thank you for the welcome. I'm excited.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:56]:

You're welcome. Welcome to SA Voices from the Field.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:00:59]: Thank you for the welcome. I'm excited.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:01]: You are one of our, I think, maybe only undergraduate students to appear on the podcast or maybe 1st or second. You're also enough, and you've spent quite a bit of time growing into a future career in student affairs. So you're the perfect person to have on for the season of the past, present, and future of student affairs. Normally, we kick off our episodes by asking our guests how they got to their current professional seat. But since you're an aspiring student affairs professional, I'm hoping you can talk about your undergraduate journey and how you've arrived at the decision that the student affairs profession is where you wanna be.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:01:33]: Definitely. So my journey has actually started since elementary. It's kind of crazy how that goes back to. But I originally wanted to become a teacher since I've seen amazing teachers, of course, bad teachers too, but focusing on the positive side, they've inspired me. And since then to high school, I was on that mindset of being a teacher until I moved or transitioned into education law or that kind of career vibe. And then I got to college with all hopes of getting into law school after graduation. But I was told by my career counselor that I should rather be an educational consultant. So long story short, I did a reflection and realized, yes, I wanted to be all these different roles.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:02:15]: But at the end of the day, they all had a common point, which was education system as a whole. So I was like, so why did I want to do education system keeping those roles aside? And that's when I realized it's all about education reform and how I'm personally the type of person. I'm not like since I had to deal with it, everybody has to deal with it. So I wanted to make sure if I struggled that the next generation did not have to struggle, and then I voice the concerns because everybody can stay complaining, but who is actually putting in the work to resolve these issues? And that's the thing that motivated me into getting student affairs in specific because I felt like with student affairs in specific, I would have the opportunity to be a point of contact in a way with my advising role or some kind of role to a point where I work with students, staff, and faculty, and I can influence a group of a collective of people. And then if I were to go for advocacy or reform to any kind of administration, I have a backup of people that can come work with me and advocate together. Because I feel like the more people that join in, the louder the voice is and the more clear it is to the administration of the importance in making the decision or changing the system, in other words. So I felt like student affairs could be a platform or an industry I could use to kind of really get those people to work together on the change. Because I know if I go by myself and say this is wrong, he won't listen to me.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:03:46]: They need research. They need backup and people to be collectively saying that this is a concern. So that's why I feel like student affairs was the best place to still do reform, because I could do reform in whatever industry, but I chose this would be more of a not just easy, but, like, a productive way to make change while I enjoy it. Because as a student myself, since middle school, I've always been in leadership roles, SGA, whatever it could be. So I enjoy that stuff. I enjoy product management, project management, event planning, pretty much everything that specifically student affairs entitles into. And then as I discovered this, I realized I started a nonprofit in high school, but that also was also education reform. So it kind of, like, all connected together, how everything was working.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:04:35]: And, of course, as I was in college and realized this dream, I was already working with the office of vice chancellor at our campus. So, fortunately, the vice chancellor of our campus is the liaison for NASPA. And, generally, my mentor for NASPA, NUF program, is also part of the Office of Vice Chancellor. So I kinda worked with all of them in joining it and then built my connections and to make it more of a reality. So that's kinda my journey into figuring out what this is.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:06]: I think you may have figured out quite a bit earlier than a lot of us that student affairs was a viable career path for you with what makes you passionate and how you want to affect systems for students. Now the reasons may sound similar across time for student affairs professionals about why we come into the field. We're generally a group of people who are designing experiences for students with the hopes that we're impacting positive change or creating support systems or helping people exercise critical thinking skills or what have you, you know, that co curricular experience. So what part of student affairs are you hoping to center into as you begin your journey?

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:05:42]: So it totally depends on time because, like, you can see since middle school to now, it kinda changed. I always have plans. One thing about me people can tell you about that know me is I'm all about planning and organizing and actually overplanning. So I'm ready to take career anything that involves event planning, programming, and a direct contact with students. But I want to make sure that, yes, they're having fun through events, but they're also getting purposeful outcomes and objectives. So that's why even when I plan programming that it kind of align, actually has objectives, like a lesson or something that they can take away. Even if it's a fun event, they take away social wellness or something of that sort. So I feel like that kind of work can give me a fun, exciting, and something that I'm good at and I enjoy doing, but also can impact the students.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:06:34]: So I feel like anything event planning, so maybe, I mean, every department has event planning. I personally worked with the Seal of our campus, Student Engagement Leadership Department, and I've worked with different departments within that. Student Orgs, I've always, I'm part of Through Student Orgs myself as a leader. So I feel like that kind of journey is the start of my career because I've been in it, and I can just expand more on, like, the knowledge of it and eventually get up to whatever role it takes me to. But no matter what I do, I wanna involve learning or advocacy, but in a fun way because students like fun. I like lessons. How do we combine them is my mission.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:14]: As a current student, what types of challenges are you and your peers currently facing that you wanna be the problem solver for as you come into the profession?

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:07:23]: So when I did choose to come to this profession, I already decided there were some concerns that I definitely wanna take place in or advocating for. And one of it is really just curriculum. I know that it's not easy to work on, but for me, education reform meant student issues with standardized testing, GPA, outdated curriculum, and then staff and faculty issues. As I got into NASBA, and like just in general, some other higher education as a whole, I realized staff and faculty are the point of contact for students and parents, and they're blamed for anything and everything sometimes that are not even under their control because administrators or the government made those rules. But I feel like staff and faculty issues with overworking, understaffed, under resourced, underfunded. These kind of issues are important. Also, underpaid. That's one thing.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:08:16]: We're all in here for passion because I feel like the amount of wage issues we have is kind of concerning. And then just in general, wellness as a whole, I don't feel I feel like we try to prioritize wellness, especially last few years, but there's more to go into it. And sometimes, like, we try to find work life balance or wellness as a whole, but that's not realistic. So also, like, that learning, not just for students, but for staff and faculty so that, there's more resources for them and everyone. But personally, one thing I care about is nutrition. I feel like campus foods could be better. There's a lot of issues with it. I tried doing a research project, it never worked out, but I would probably do that for my master's or PhD, who knows, which is my goals.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:09:01]: But I know there's a lot of other issues with diversity inclusion, title 9, safety, accessibility to nontraditional students. One of the main populations I wanna serve is nontraditional students because we always forget that they're students from different cultural, economic, religious backgrounds, and to serve all of them is really important. People come from different backgrounds. How can you accommodate everyone is important. So I know that's a lot, and sometimes people tell me you're very unrealistic with abolishing standardized testing, abolishing GPA or outdated curriculum. And I'm like, probably I mean, yes, it's probably, like, unrealistic for now. But eventually, I know that it's a process or a journey that I could reach. And I'm just at the start of my journey, so there's a long time to achieve this.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:50]: You're a future VPSA in the making. You've got long range goals. And if you're going to change systems, it takes time. We have a colleague, I would say a late colleague actually, who loved the quote, if you want to go far, go together. If you want to go fast, go alone. It's an African proverb. And that was said often by Mary Anita Nesbitt, who was a colleague of mine at Washington State University. And she really lived that through her work, and that is something I hear you're working towards.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:18]: So I I like to see those threads tugged on, by multiple people across space and time. And as you look forward to that, how are you approaching the journey into possible master's programs?

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:10:29]: So like I said, I'm a huge planner. So I've already started my planning, like, long time ago. But event starting this summer, I've gotten more serious about it with my master's planning so that I could apply. December is the deadline for a lot of programs. So kind of researching what programs are there and what meets my needs. One thing about me with master's planning or anything, I'm also, like, the type of person that thinks as much as a program or even a job recruits me, I'm also getting into that program. So, I mean, my needs also met. So I have some requirements for myself of, like, choosing between in person or online programs, if I should do graduate assistantship jobs or anything of that sort.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:11:09]: So there's a lot of options. But most importantly, I feel like I wanna figure out what are the ethics, values, and purpose of each of these programs in different institutions? Because I understand that not my whole, like, handbook of myself of ethics values could align with the institution's policies. But at least them understanding and accepting or respecting my perspective is important to me, because I don't wanna get to a space and have negative trauma or any kind of concerns. So I wanna prevent that before I get there. So in that sense, also realizing that. So I'm in the journey of, like, planning, figuring out what requirements or financial requirements. I'm a 1st generation student. So also, like, making sure that I understand what I'm doing, and I'm doing this kind of, like, alone, you know, most first gen students.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:11:57]: So kind of figuring that out. And kind of the main thing I'm doing right now is scheduling a meeting with different people within an institution. I felt like with the same point I just started off with. I need to meet with an admission or HR office, a professor, a student, and alum for each institution I want to go to, so that I get different perspectives of living at an institution. Sometimes I might not be able to do that for every institution, but my hope is to do that so I can get make the best decision. But I have chosen top 3 universities I'll definitely apply that I know of, so I'm ready for it. And I feel like it's important that I take this step in my higher education, especially as a 1st year student, because just starting undergrad itself is big deal. And then continuing to master's program is a whole another level of a challenge.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:12:49]: So I feel like there's gonna be challenges coming in between with the background I come from and kind of making sure everybody understands that or just that me sticking still and strong on my words and my needs. So there will be challenges, but I'm ready for everything, I guess. And that's kinda like where I'm at with master's program. And, really, me as an individual, I feel like no matter what I choose, I'm an overthinker, but I also wanna make sure I'm actually planned and prepared because I don't wanna get into something and struggle to a point. I'm I mean, I would struggle, but at least I wanna be ready for it or prepared for it, which is why I kind of am in the plans.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:32]: You mentioned that your background is having an influence on your selection process. Would you mind sharing some of your background with our listeners?

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:13:40]: Definitely. So there's a lot of background identities I take myself pride in or perspective in. So one of which is being an Asian and specifically Indian, and that brings a huge influence as to my education, my lifestyle, and everything. And I say that to say because my whole family of 1 and also my gender as a female. Majority of females within India or Asia are not still working or not still studying, if that makes sense. So even my family has a background. Pretty much my mom and pretty every woman from last generations have not studied or graduated or anything of that sort. They got married early on and or housewives, which I support.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:14:26]: Everybody's journey is different, but they weren't given the option. So for me, I have the option or that which I'm grateful for. Some of this is like, oh, it's a basic need to have education. But for me, sometimes, for some people coming from different backgrounds, more than a need, it's us getting that, like, individual morality from our family and support, which I appreciate my family for. But that also gives me a huge challenge or responsibility to keep my word in that education past. But, again, the identity of being an Asian and Indian as a female that, like, statistics from how it was from past to now and how you want to be the change maker in your in, area is important. Being a 1st gen student, is also crazy because you have no support from family, so you kinda have to freestyle everything. Lot of, wood statistics again.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:15:21]: I feel like, a lot of first and students are overachievers. They wanna make sure everything's perfect. They wanna do everything they can to get acceptance from their community, their family, and everything of that sort. So it's a challenge, but I feel like those identities involve a lot of hard work. And I'm willing to put my time and effort into it, but I feel like these are really significant. My identities with my gender roles within my community of being an Indian or Asian, and also with the subject I chose. It's kind of irregular within my background to choose education system, like work or career within the education system. Everybody, we know the stereotype, Asians go to STEM.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:16:04]: And I'm fully opposed to that. But again, that's depending on the choice of people. But I want to break break those stigmas, stereotypes, microaggressions, or everything and prove people wrong that I could still make it in life, in other words, or grow without being in a STEM major, without doing the specific pathway, an individual creative for me, whereas I have to create my own pathway, if that makes sense. So my identity has given me so much influence onto what I should do, how I should lead my life and that in a positive way, but it comes with a lot of challenges. So it's like you gotta balance it out and choose what's best for you.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:16:46]: And you chose to attend an HBCU for your undergraduate experience to receive the support and care that you needed as a person of color in the higher education community, as a first gen student. What are some of the things that your institution has done exceptionally well to ensure that you have that support safety net in place as you move through your undergraduate career.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:17:06]: Definitely. So that's one of the greatest thing I've specifically experienced last few years in a good and bad way, but the bad way has told me the resources I've on campus. So I had to deal with the concern on campus and I had to report it. And then I got the full support from my diversity and inclusion department on campus. They were very supportive and they gave me the resources I needed, counseling center, and so much more. So I feel like, yes, there won't be, like, a full not sure what the word is, but, like, a whole red carpet pathway of welcome. There will be challenges and issues. I had to face an offensive statement, a body shaming, and a racial slur on a HBCU.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:17:49]: But still I made it through with the support, with staff and faculty. So I was directed to the resources we had. And most importantly, sometimes it's not really the resources on campus, but the people you meet on campus that you connect with. There's a lot of peer mentoring groups and peer support, and I personally support a lot of my peers whenever they have these kind of challenges, and they're always there for me. One of the biggest reasons were I had to figure out this whole journey of why am I falling into these issues or stuff like that. And then these friends, I guess. I can't even believe that they're my friends because if you think about my past to now, I wouldn't assume that this would have gone this way. But I feel like at the end of the day, it's a well put out book.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:18:36]: It has a beginning and end conclusion, which is still continuing, like, as a chapters of life. But I feel like it's coming together already. So it's just we have resources, but sometimes it's just next to you, and you gotta realize the people that are near you could also be a resource. It does not necessarily have to be a department.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:56]: As we get older as a generation of student affairs professionals, we are farther and farther away from the present day student experience in terms of how it reflected our own experience. And it's our job to change our mindsets with new generations of students and different needs and different sets of expectations and all of those things. What would you like current student affairs professionals to know about the present day college experience, especially for students in that kind of average 18 to 25 year old range that maybe we're not seeing or not thinking about or you wish we thought about more?

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:19:30]: This is a clear answer for me, and I'm excited to share this because it's a problem, honestly, that I wish a lot of staff and faculty realize, it's the collaboration I wish, the bridge between student affairs and academic affairs that I wish is not broken and that we can kind of combine together for collaboration. And I've always discussed about it and the way it impacts students. Because I feel like with students, especially student leaders as a whole, we have a lot of stuff on our plate and we're passionate about student leadership to a point. We're part of 1,000 student orgs, extracurriculars. Most of us do 2 to 3 jobs and a lot of other things apart from academics. Ideally, from past and history, from what I've heard, everybody was like, education come in and out of class, and that is all you gotta do for the degree, which is still the reality of getting a degree. But college life is more than just getting that degree. It's experiencing life as a part of college life.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:20:32]: I felt like in past, it was like when you're in college or when you're in just like your education era, it was more of education was your life. Now people have realized with the 8 dimensions of wellness, it's reality of wellness or life as a whole. There's more to life than education. It's part of your life. It's not your life. And so I wish staff and faculty realize the struggle that students are going through in balancing because they're still students. Sometimes staff forget, oh, they're adults. They gotta figure it out.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:21:03]: But it the reality is, yes, we're trying to figure it out. We're still trying to figure it out. Most of the adults that have graduated are still trying to figure it out and change stuff, their careers, or anything in a minute. So them expecting us to have our life together once we get to college because we're adults is kind of unrealistic because we have to go through some issues with maybe family emergencies or just in general life as a whole in balancing social life, extracurriculars, and how this generation is in a competition. Of course, every generation is it. But like for me, I feel like because of the economic state, we're trying to get jobs, we're trying to live because in past, you guys could afford a house to buy a house. Now we can't afford to rent a house. That says a lot.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:21:50]: And us, we want to make sure that we gain as much experience as possible to get a job that can pay for basic needs, because unfortunately, I feel like a lot of students can't even meet the basic needs because of the economic state. And I wish staff and faculty could understand that as we're dealing with this concern, because it's important that, yes, we have academics, but can we actually have a practical life skills and actually learn that there's more to life than this course and the GPA? Because, yes, this is important, but a number does not define my talent in education. Because outside that classroom, I'm a talented artist. I'm a talented professional. I'm part of 5 orgs. I do this, this, that. And I got 3 awards. And this is me personally.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:22:36]: But, again, a lot of students did have to deal with this, and some of them had to quit a lot of their passions just so they they could get that degree. And was it worth it? Some of them even had to cheat or plagiarize just so they could get a degree. And so it's like, is it worth a degree if you're cheating and just doing something just for the sake of societal expectation of getting the best grade when you can do what you like while also knowing that education is just part of life and also enjoying life as a whole with campus life, which is where student affairs comes into place. And just the fact that, like, with my first point of the bridge between student affairs and academic affairs, I feel like sometimes there's a fight between them. It's like not student affairs and academic affairs, student affairs versus academic affairs. Like, both of those are important. I mean, both divisions are important. But I feel like academic affairs thinks or assume sometimes that student affairs is just giving away random stuff, like gifts and and getting students to do parties and stuff.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:23:40]: But we're more than that. We have a lot of resources we're providing and providing them life. And then academic affairs, as important as doing all this, you're coming to campus paying 1,000 of dollars just for that degree. So it's I'm not saying academics is not important, but I wish that we could collaborate as professionals together with those 2 deficient to make it better for the students. Students already have to go through a lot of other things, especially with the economic state, the journey that they have to go through to just have some basic need. I don't know if that makes sense. I know it was kind of a lot, but it's comes from my experience and my peers. And I just feel like all these concerns that student go through causes a lot of student suicide, student mental health issues, and so much more.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:24:28]: And still, I want to make sure, yes, this sounds like us complaining, but we're complaining for a reason because we've seen our peers struggle through it, and we're barely surviving.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:24:38]: I think advocating for your needs is not a complaint. Advocating for your needs is what helps us understand what it is that student affairs needs to be doing the same and differently in order to support your journey. That's what we're here to do is to help you develop into a fully functioning member of society as you move across the stage, get your diploma, and then head into the working world wherever that might be. And it is a different economic environment right now than it was 10 years ago, 20 years ago. I do wanna say though, you mentioned that quote unquote you all can afford to buy a house. I think that's only true for, like, baby gen xers and baby boomers. And right now, you know, a lot of millennials are struggling with that too. And I think it's important for our gen z students and young professional colleagues to understand that that is a problem that's been plaguing us for quite a while.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:23]: And so I think that economic perspective is also something that the student affairs profession really is going to need to come to terms with pretty soon here. The federal overtime laws, I think, are gonna make an impact on how things change for us. But I think more often than not, we have a wage gap in the profession, and that's just something that I know everyone is trying to figure out how to tackle. And I don't know that any of us have done it well or right yet, but it's gotta be something that we reckon with as a field. So that leads me right into our theme questions for the season. So, Kamaakji, I have 3 questions for you on the past, present, and future. So on the past, what's one component of the history of the student affairs profession that you think we should either continue to carry forward or we really need to let go of?

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:26:08]: So I have a long answer, but I'll keep it short. I feel like with any system, but focusing on educational system, sometimes it's build with pillars with that foundation. So I wish people realize that whenever we got some kind of new thing, that they don't just concentrate on that, but go back and actually resolve one concern. Because I feel like with any system, there's been back to back issues. And so people, whatever is a current issue, they're focusing on that, doing whatever they couldn't to resolve it, but realize the past issue has never been resolved. So I feel like with the history, I wish there's a change in terms of how people realize that, yes, there's a lot of issues, but make sure when you start a project, you finish that concern before you get to another concern kind of thing. So let's say again, as an example, DEI and Title IX. If there's an issue with DEI this year, the Title IX next year, next year people are forgetting all the work they've done with DEI and starting on title 9, but this has never resolved.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:27:09]: So I feel like it's important to stick on one thing, resolve it instead of just building so many blocks and never resolving none of them. It's important to go back and realize we need to rebuild all this because we're renovating, but we actually have to, like, rebuild everything. There's no foundation. There's just pillars.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:30]: Moving into the present, what's happening in the field right now that's going well for student affairs?

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:27:36]: I feel like as much as collaboration can be improved, it has been better for the current student affairs journey because the way that we're promoting professional development for staff faculty to support the students then at end of the day is really important with NASPA and many other orgs. So I feel like that's the best thing that's happening in student affairs, the collaboration and the willingness to support staff and faculty as much as we can. Because at the end of the day, they're the point of contact for students. If they're not well, how are the students gonna be well and get the support they need? So I feel like the current state it could be better, but it's definitely been better than in past.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:15]: And looking towards the future, in an ideal world, what does the field need to do to thrive towards our future?

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:28:21]: I mentioned with past. I feel like the field needs to get to a conclusion to build collaboration so that they can definitely rebuild the structure of student affairs in a way where it actually is gonna work, and it has a foundation and pillars where everything is gonna be solid.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:42]: So, Kamakshi, is there anything else that you'd like to share on the past, present, and future of the profession?

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:28:47]: Well, if I could, I'll share forever and talk with you for hours, but with time's sake. In conclusion, I feel like we had a great conversation, and it's important to talk about this because there's change every day, and we gotta adapt and accommodate the needs of the current generation or be more of current. And so I wish there is more work towards it. I know we are working towards it, but I just wanna make sure with my work that it's definitely a continuous journey of consistency in growth for the collective, and nobody's doing it for themselves. It's, at the end of the day, benefit in the growth of the system.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:28]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:34]: Thanks, Joe. So excited to be back in the NASPA world. Today, I want to start off by congratulating our 2025 pillars of the profession. Each year, the NASPA Foundation recognizes exceptional members of the student affairs and higher education community through the pillars of the profession award, one of the foundation's highest honors. The award comes from you, our members and supporters, as a way to recognize your fellow colleagues who represent outstanding contributions to our field and our organization. Individuals receiving honors this year are Kevin Kruger receiving the 2025 John L Blackburn distinguished pillar of the profession award and the following individuals receiving the 2025 NASPA foundation pillar of the profession. Mordecai Ian Brownlee, Ainsley Carey, Zduy B. Chu, Philip Covington, Frank Cuevas, Jon Dooley, Jacinda M. Félix Haro, Leanna Fenenburg, Anne G. Flaherty, Ann M. Gansemer-Topf, Cynthia L. Hernandez, Mylon J. Kirsky, Ryan Lombardi, Roger Ludeman, Keegan Nichols, Patty Perillo, Frank Ross, Alvin Sturdivant, Rameen Talesh, and Derek Vergara. I am so excited to be able to welcome all of these deserving individuals to the pillars of the profession. And you have an opportunity to be able to celebrate the 2025 pillars of the profession with a donation to the NASPA Foundation in their honor. Take a moment to say thank you to these amazing professionals. You can donate online and learn more about the foundation's pillar class.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:14]: There's still time to sign up for a new short course, campus Crisis Management in Times of Chaos. This course starts online September 23rd and goes through October 25th. You can either register by yourself or for you and a team to acquire the competencies and knowledge that will help you support your students when crisis situations arise. The course will give a broad overview of how student affairs professionals can best support their students and campus during crisis situations. Topics will include foundations of crisis management, crisis management teams, or emergency management teams, the creation of crisis management plans, communications during times of crisis, recovery following an incident, and relationships across the institution and with outside agencies. Registration is still open, and you can sign up up to the live session start of September 23rd. So I highly encourage you to look internally at your own institution for ways to be able to engage your own campus in some amazing dialogues that will help your campus to be ready in times of crisis. I know I've talked about it in the past, and there are always opportunities to be able to give back to the NASPA family and community.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:28]: And one way is through the NASPA journal board. There are a number of opportunities that are currently open for individuals to be able to get involved in our NASPA journal board. Some available opportunities include being an editorial board member or a new professional and graduate student review board member for the Journal of Student Affairs Research and Practice, an editorial board member, or a new professional and graduate student review board member for the Journal of Women and Gender in Higher Education or an editorial board member for the Journal of First Generation Student Success. If any of these sound interesting to you, I highly encourage you to apply for these opportunities. You can find out more on the NASPA website. Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways, because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with the knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:33:42]: And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself, where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:37]: Chris, thank you so much for continuing to share with us what's going on in and around NASPA. And, Kamachi, we have reached our lightning round. So I have 7 questions for you to answer in about 90 seconds. You ready to roll?

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:34:49]: I'll try my best.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:50]: Alright. Number 1, if you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:34:55]: This Girl is on Fire.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:57]: Number 2, when you were 5 years old, what did you want to be when you grew up?

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:35:02]: I just wanted to be a kind person that had an influence on people just like I was as a child.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:08]: Number 3. Who's your most influential professional mentor?

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:35:11]: Oh, I got a list of 1,000 people, but I got to say huge shout out to miss Lauren. She was enough board member, and she's one of my best mentors currently.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:22]: Alright. Number 4, your essential student affairs read.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:35:26]: Honestly, I'm not a reading person as much, so I don't have anything as of now.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:30]: Number 5, the best TV show you've binged lately.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:35:33]: I'm not watching TV shows. If I were to, it's really like my native language. But I can say I binge on Office at times just for fun because you always need that fun with chaos happening.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:45]: That comfort show. Yeah. Number 6, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:35:50]: I don't listen to podcast again as much, but if I do, sometimes my advisers suggest some of these yoga meditation podcasts, so I love to, like, just tune into those. But also, there's been, like, a podcast about reform and nonprofits, which is my kind of industry, so I listen to those too.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:09]: And finally, number 7. Any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional?

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:36:13]: Oh, shout out to myself. I mean, I've not expected myself to be in this stage, and I feel like a lot of people think this is selfish, but it's important to be selfish for yourself. It's more of self love and care. So I shout out myself for getting to the stage. Like you said, I'm kind of proud of myself for being here today to be part of a NASPA, National Association, and working with all these professionals and the fact that they respect and value me. Yes. I'm an undergraduate student and maybe like that societal normals age and everything changes. But, like, again, the respect I get is really appreciated.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:36:49]: So I'm proud of myself and a huge shout out to me, but also huge shout out to you for pulling this off and doing great stuff. Now this is our first time meeting, but this has been a great pleasure talking with you. And I really appreciate how you led this and all the NASPA professionals, or not just NASPA, everybody, because we're trying our best. I know it's not gonna happen in one day, but we're making it through. And that's a shot at itself.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:12]: It's been a joy to listen to your perspective. And I am very much looking forward to watching your rise in the profession over the next several years. And if anyone would like to connect with you after the show airs, how can they find you?

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:37:24]: So my emails, I'll say to, is [email protected] or [email protected] . Eagle pride again. And then you can also find me on LinkedIn with my name, Kamakshi Velamuri, kamakshivelamuri. Thank you.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:52]: Kamakshi, thank you so much for sharing your voices with us today.

Kamakshi Velamuri [00:37:56]: Thank you.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:01]: This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field brought to you by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email us at sa voices at naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a 5 star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It truly does help other student affairs pros find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton, that's me, produced and audio engineered by doctor Chris Lewis.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:43]: Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

Artificial Intelligence (AI) is rapidly reshaping various sectors, and academia is no exception. In a recent episode of the SA Voices From the Field podcast, hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton, guest Dr. Daniel Weisglass shared his expert insights on the role, challenges, and potential of AI in higher education. Dr. Weisglass, an assistant professor of philosophy at Duke Kunshan University, delves into academic integrity, student affairs, and the future landscape of education with a particular focus on AI tools.

Rethinking Academic Assessments

At the heart of the discussion is the need for rethinking traditional academic assessments in light of AI advancements. Dr. Daniel Weisglass emphasizes the importance of critically evaluating the types of assignments given to students. He suggests that faculty members collaborate closely with academic integrity units to adapt their methodologies in response to the changing academic environment.

AI, particularly generative models like GPT (Generative Pretrained Transformer), can produce seemingly original essays and content. This poses a significant challenge to traditional assessment techniques, which often rely on evaluating written assignments. Dr. Weisglass advocates for the adaptation of in-person assessments to maintain academic integrity. Such measures echo the early days of Google search usage when educators needed to adapt to a new tool that changed how students accessed information.

The Value of Teaching and Mentoring in Student Affairs

Maintaining the historically valuable elements of student affairs is another critical point discussed by Dr. Weisglass. He underscores the importance of deep, meaningful connections and personal development in education. The role of mentoring and teaching in shaping students' experiences and growth remains as crucial as ever, despite the growing presence of AI in academia.

Dr. Weisglass suggests that while AI can support student affairs professionals by recognizing emotional patterns and raising alerts, it should not replace human interactions. The human aspect of teaching and mentoring is irreplaceable, and AI should serve as a supplementary tool rather than a substitute.

Addressing Modern Challenges in Student Affairs

The current state of student affairs has seen an increased awareness and maintenance of campus cultures. Dr. Weisglass highlights the new challenges posed by AI-enabled academic and student conduct violations. With the advent of sophisticated AI tools, distinguishing between AI-generated and human-generated content becomes increasingly difficult.

To combat these challenges, Dr. Weisglass advocates for developing robust administrative standards for safety and security. He also highlights the necessity of continual responsiveness and adaptation to student needs. As student affairs professionals, it is essential to stay ahead of technological trends and ensure that the academic and personal growth of students is not compromised.

Preparing for the Future: Flexibility and Ethical AI Use

Looking ahead, Dr. Weisglass envisions a future where student growth remains the primary focus, without leaning too heavily on a customer service-oriented approach. He emphasizes that flexibility, continual responsiveness, and reflective responses are key to effectively preparing students for a rapidly changing world.

Incorporating AI into education requires a thoughtful approach to designing prompts and assignments. The goal is to make use of AI tools, like GPT, to support the development of labor-intensive skills such as ethical analysis. Educators need to balance leveraging AI to aid the learning process while maintaining the integrity and authenticity of student work.

Embracing AI: Tools and Techniques

Dr. Weisglass discusses various AI tools and their applications in higher education:

1. Predictive AI: This AI type forecasts trends and flags at-risk students based on data patterns, such as class attendance. It helps institutions take proactive measures in student support.

2. Generative AI: While capable of generating new content, generative AI raises concerns about academic integrity. This type of AI can fabricate information and compromise data privacy.

3. Gamma Tool and Copilot: Gamma converts Word documents into detailed PowerPoint presentations, aiding in educational settings. Copilot, part of the Office 365 suite, helps summarize emails and meetings, streamlining administrative tasks.

4. Cite.ai: This tool assists in generating literature reviews and finding specific articles within academic research, ensuring the accuracy and authenticity of data.

Dr. Weisglass also stresses the importance of ensuring data security agreements with AI tool providers or developing in-house models to safeguard student data.

Conclusion

The insights shared by Dr. Daniel Weisglass underline the transformative potential of AI in higher education, along with its challenges. The integration of AI tools, such as GPT, must be approached with a balance of innovation and ethical considerations. By rethinking academic assessments and maintaining the human elements of teaching and mentoring, educators can harness AI's potential to enhance the educational experience while preserving the integrity and personal growth of students. As we navigate this evolving landscape, the role of AI in academia will continue to be a dynamic and critical area of exploration.

About our guest

Daniel Weissglass is an assistant professor of philosophy at Duke Kunshan University, a Sino-US Liberal Arts institution located in near Shanghai. His work focuses on the ethics of science, health, and technology - with a special interest in the use of artificial intelligence to meet health needs in low- and middle-income countries. He also works in various ways to help DKU make the most of AI as an educational tool, as well as assisting in the development of policies regarding their safe, effective, and ethical use.

TRANSCRIPT (Unedited transcript created by Castmagic)

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:00]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you happen to be. This is season 11, the past, present, and future of student affairs, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton, she, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Welcome back to a new episode of SA Voices from the Field, where today we will feature Doctor. Daniel Weissglass. Doctor. Weissglass is an assistant professor of philosophy at Duke Kunshan University, which is a Sino US liberal arts institution located near Shanghai, China. His work focuses on the ethics of science, health, and technology with a special interest in the use of artificial intelligence to meet health needs in low and middle income countries.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:49]: He also works in various ways to help DKU make the most of AI as an educational tool, as well as assisting in the development of policies regarding their safe, effective, and ethical use. So today's episode is gonna be focused on the use of AI in higher education. Daniel, welcome to student affairs voices from the field.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:01:06]: Thanks so much, Jill. Glad to be here.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:08]: It's great to see you. Daniel and I have known each other for a couple years now, and we're coming to you from across massive time zone difference. I'm sitting here in the UK and Daniel's sitting over there in China. So I can see the sun setting on his end and the sun rising on mine.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:01:22]: There's maybe a metaphor, appropriate to the the topic of today's meeting about that.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:26]: Oh, I'm excited to get into that. Daniel, you make your livelihood as a philosopher. And so I always like to ask our guests kind of how you got to your current seat, but we're speaking with you mainly today because of your burgeoning career in academia and artificial intelligence AI. So, yeah, tell us about how you got here.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:01:46]: Well, interestingly, I can kind of weave those 2 together. Actually, part of what brought me into philosophy was an interest in AI. Now this was back before the the big data science boom even. So what AI meant at the time was a very different concept, one that had more to do with replicating human capacities and building something human like or assisting human in those performance is and and less to do with something like the large scale statistics that we see today. And the questions I kept finding myself asking was, well, if we're gonna talk about replicating something like human intelligence, I need to know better what that is. So I went into study in the philosophy of mind, and I also double majored in psychology. And I think the interest I have had in AI throughout my career is part of what brought me to where I am at DKU. DKU, Duke of Kunshan University, where I work, is a very interdisciplinary institute.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:02:34]: It doesn't really follow traditional divisional or disciplinary divisions. We don't have departments. Right? We have these big, houses. I say for the audience, Gil, you know all of this. And when I presented my initial research presentation, it was actually about not artificial intelligence, but artificial emotion and the possibilities that might bring for things like moral control of AI. So I think this has been sort of a natural path for me. And then with the recent explosion in AI interest post large language models, the place for someone who can think critically and with some sort of baseline informative informedness about AI technologies, about the values that we have in using those technologies, has become more and more central to the mission of academic institutions worldwide. And I was very fortunate to find a community here that supports me pursuing that path.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:26]: You mentioned something that I've not heard in these conversations a lot, which is not artificial intelligence, but artificial emotion or the the mimicization of human emotion in AI. And typically, we're talking about AI ultimately being barely stupid because it's only as good as what we input into it. Talk to us a little bit more about that emotion component.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:03:47]: Oh, yeah. Absolutely. So there's a small literature on what's called synthetic emotion usually. And there are a couple of ways of understanding what that means. One is being able to respond to emotional cues of users appropriately. You can almost see this in chat gpt when it says, oh, I'm sorry. I made a mistake. Right? And that's important for a lot of reasons.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:04:07]: One being that people are more likely to maintain systems that apologize when they fail. This was an interesting set of studies on that. But what I was more interested in is systems that try to replicate the you might call input output mapping, the sort of function in the mathematical sense that human emotions have. So ideally, a system that is capable in this way would be able to, for instance, look at an image and identify the emotion that that image would produce in most viewers. So if it showed an image of a person in suffering, right, it would it would identify that this would produce sorrow or sympathy. And this is really important, this kind of input output mapping, to producing morally correct responses in some cases. Emotions play a huge role in how we make moral choices and how we decide to respond to morally loaded events. And so there's a hope that we can make artificial moral agents, is the term that gets thrown around in the in the literature, that would be able to adequately replicate these components of moral reasoning, which I think must include something like emotion, so that they can regulate themselves more effectively.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:05:10]: Now, presumably, we wouldn't want to take people out of the loop entirely. But if you don't ask them to regulate themselves based upon these basic presuppositions that we have captured in our emotional systems, you get behavior that can be very dangerous and and very much outside of what we call alignment. You get systems that are willing to lie, hate, steal, harass people, all of these things. And so the hope was and and what I was working on at the time, and it still is sort of on a back burner, is that synthetic emotion might be able to improve this, provide some sort of safety by allowing them to analyze allowing AI tools to analyze morally loaded instances in a way that's more similar to the way that humans do. There are a lot of challenges to that. But in context of something like an academic environment, this might involve something that's emotionally sensitive and responsive to student users, for instance, right? So imagine as we've been kicking around here the idea of an advisor bot. So you've got a first run chatbot that interacts with students. You don't just want the chatbot to be able to recognize the question and its meaning in a literal sense.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:06:11]: You might also want it to note certain emotional patterns that could emerge in the way students are responding. Right? You might want it to note that, the questions this person is asking and the way they're asking them as the semester goes on really seem to indicate that this the student's not doing so well. Right? And maybe it could raise a flag there. Now this would be a, you know, a much more complex system most likely than what we're dealing with in the near future, but that was the idea. And I think synthetic emotion is an under explored space in education in the same way that emotion in general, in pedagogical context and advising context is underplayed. Right? We focus so much on cognitive expertise. We sometimes forget that this is broadly speaking a care profession, and we underplay the importance of that sort of emotional intelligence and emotional engagement, I think.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:00]: For student affairs professionals, that's where we spend most of our time is working with students in that high EQ space, in that high empathy space. And the thought of having an AI bot to help us support that work is a really fascinating one. On my end, I'm teaching currently the technology module for masters in student affairs through NASPA and LUMSU University. And I just had my first lecture about a week and a half ago, and it was all about introducing student affairs professionals to user and AI tools. We're not talking about the technological side of machine learning and how we're feeding large language models and things like that. But really, what can these things do for us to help support our work? Because at the end of the day, when we're working with students, it's a human centered profession. And I don't believe any sort of technological replacement that can get us to a place where we don't need human interaction is the core of what we do in a university setting. I think that there's cognitive development that can happen through these bots or even quick answers.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:55]: But when you're having a really hard day, talking to a bot is probably not going to help you find a space of resilience or thriving. But we also have, I think, jumped ahead quite a lot. We're already speaking from a at least a novice perspective on AI. So I want us to back up a little bit to, just give some primer and basics for someone maybe who has heard of AI but has never tried using a large language model. Maybe they're using predictive AI and they don't know it. Maybe they're a little fearful of the tools that are out there because they don't know much about them. So let's start with the super basic, which is can you describe for us the difference between predictive versus generative AI?

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:08:34]: So, I mean, the to some extent, the answer is in the name. So a predictive AI is focused on predicting. This might be making a sort of, like, quantitative prediction, right, where it says, you know, given recent trends in the financial market, this is what we expect these things to go. Right? You might see these even with very, very simple forms, like expected grades could arguably be something of this kind. They'd be very simple. So predictive AIs attempt to predict. They might also try to protect things like categories. You might look at patterns of enrollment or something and say, well, this student is likely to be a major in philosophy.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:09:05]: This student is likely to be a data science major. And that could help you maybe plan staffing right down the road. They could also maybe identify students who we've noticed if you had the adequate data collection system. We've noticed this student has just missed 3 classes in a row across 2 different courses. Let's raise a flag. Something might be worth noting here. This is now a high risk student, maybe the classification would be. Generative AI works in a very different way.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:09:28]: What it does is is generate something. It produces, and there's some debate about how novel the outputs of these things are, but a novel output based upon usually a description of the desired output. So you go in and you say draw me a picture of a bird, and it draws you a picture of a bird. You go in and you say, and this is the kind of thing that tends to worry academics, Write me a 10 page paper about the role of Rene Descartes' mind body dualism in creating a a sort of, individualistic conception of the self which results in all these problematic ways of viewing one's connection to society. I'm getting down a path here. Sorry. I'll back up a little bit. But you, you know, you ask it your your essay prompts, it will write an essay.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:10:09]: Not always a good essay, but they're getting better. And so what generative AI does that predictive AI don't doesn't do is produce novel outputs, a novel at least in the sense that they're not just copy and pasting from somewhere. What raises concerns for academics, things like turn it in won't work, at least not as well.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:25]: That generative AI space, I think, is that scariest space for academia, particularly in the academic integrity front as you just mentioned. But I think it also requires that we reevaluate how we're assessing student learning. We've been relying on the essay for 100 of years in terms of the way that we measure if a student's critical thinking skills have evolved in the course that the way that we want them to. But if I put this prompt into AI about my image of self through the lens of Descartes, I could also ask it to do a niamic pentameter, and it's gonna spit out something, but it may also invent sources. It may also just make stuff up that is not relevant. It could insert a number of different factors that, maybe the end user doesn't know that it's inserting. But it's also going to take what I input into that model and use it to continually train. So none of my data is private when I go into these models because it is collecting it and then using that to continue to synthesize on its own.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:25]: But I I think what the most interesting piece is to me is that ultimately what we're looking at is math. We're looking at, how these machine learning components are taking language, which is ultimately just a variable for it, and then creating stories, full stories. So when you think about where we are right now in this moment in higher education, how do you believe that professors should be looking at these language tools, large language model tools in their work, in their assessment of student learning?

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:11:53]: Excellent question. I think this is the one that most faculty are really struggling with. And I think there are a couple of things to say. One is these tools are widely available and often without charge, which allows for effectively every student to be doing what what our wealthy students, who were maybe or or less scrupulous wealthy students anyway, might have been doing in the past, which is hire someone to write an essay for them. Everybody gets to do that. Now that was always a problem. It always existed. But there was enough of a barrier that we kind of just let it slide, I think.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:12:24]: At least many of us did. Now we must respond. And the way we respond is gonna depend upon what your priorities are. Right? If you want to know that somebody knows something off the top of their head, you should be asking it in a classroom in front of you, maybe with a proctored test in some cases, if you're especially dealing with the increasing number of students who are dealing with with things like remote learning in some way. So there's this sort of, you know, if you wanna stick to the old old style and there are places where that's the right thing to do, you need to be doing it in person. But we also need to be thinking more broadly about what the world we're preparing our students to engage in is going to be like. These will be tools that they will have and be interacting with for the rest of their life. All of us will be whether we like it or not.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:13:05]: And so we need to think about the ways that within our discipline, we can utilize these tools both to leverage learning about our disciplinary skill sets and our disciplinary topics, and also that we can train students to use the tools. Right? So there's using the tool to teach, for instance, philosophy, and then there's also teaching students how to use the tool. We're kind of in the early days of Google search again, where every class suddenly had to have a discussion about how to use Boolean search operators and that kind of thing. And while sometimes some of the stuff you're seeing out there isn't really legitimate, you should know that people make stuff up and lie online, and here's how we identify good sources. And now we have to do that with generative AI systems. Right? You should know they hallucinate is the term that gets thrown around. Right? They they make up facts. You need to learn how to prompt them in ways that help you avoid that.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:13:55]: You need to learn which systems can be trusted for which kinds of things and generally best practices. I'm most excited about using them as tools to teach skills that are often labor intensive. So, again, as a philosopher and particularly in teaching ethics courses. Right? So there's a lot of skills that are important there about analyzing the ethical dimensions of a given case, about working through problems and reasoning effectively, and monitoring students while they do that is a wonderful thing to do and is possible in sort of a live action action way. But providing a chat GPT, a custom GPT that's been written to prompt my students to go through a certain set of steps, right, can provide them with maybe not quite the same quality, but a much more available version of this sort of prompt. Now I would never suggest that you could replace your your assessment that way or replace your your direct education that way. Right? There's still a place for for sitting in the room with me and working through it because I might notice problems that KKPT doesn't. But especially over time and with practice, as we learn how to use these tools ourselves, we can build these really cool interactive systems, sometimes called interactive tutor systems in the older literatures that help respond to our students where they are, guide them through complicated processes, and really have a lot of promise.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:13]: You said GPT a couple of times, so I just wanna clarify definition. So when we say chat GPT, that GPT stands for generative pretrained transformer. I think a lot of people don't know that it's an acronym or just haven't gone to the depths of understanding what that means. And so the generative pretrained transformer means that it's taking the information that is already been fed that pretraining component and then transforming forming it into the output that we see as human beings. But we have different versions of chat gpt that have evolved over time. 3.5 was the one that a lot of people were using for a very long time. Now for Omni is out, which is a paid service. And so for Omni is better for sure in terms of the input it's been given and the output that it will give you.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:55]: And when we look at what students are doing, it's it's not unaffordable to to become a paid member of, for Omni. And so you can use that to your advantage. The models aren't necessarily at a place right now where they can continuously self learn in the same way that we might expect them to, like a human brain can. But the information it's getting fed is is much more interesting these days. I was teaching the use of GPT 3.5 in my course the other day. And one of the things that I love about the course that I'm currently teaching is that students come from a multitude of countries. I think we had at least 7 countries represented in that space. And so we also learned a lot about bias, in the prompts that we were using and who trains the models, whose values are inputted into the models, what assumptions are made.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:16:41]: One of the examples we looked at is how to respond to a highly critical email. And so what we had folks do is input the email into chat gpt, and then on the other side, ask it to craft a polite and salient response that covers these three points. We made sure to de identify any names. If your institution has a confidentiality clause of some kind, if you're trying to observe FERPA, you need to be really careful that you're not putting student identifiable information into these models because that data can be used. But what we got spit out was an extremely Americanized version of what that email can look like. And so it, again, raises the question, who is it for and whose biases are integrated into the system? And so the student that was representing work in Ireland said, I can't use this because it's too American and it doesn't meet my cultural needs. So we asked ChatCPT to transform that response to make it more culturally Irish, which I was real scared of that prompt. I'm not gonna lie.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:38]: I thought we were gonna border into some very racist territory, and we were breathing a bit of a sigh of relief when it transformed it into something that the student identified as a little more usable. We tried the same thing in Lithuanian, and it did not give us what we needed because we had a student representing Lithuania. So the limitations of these models is very real, and that happens for for student learning as well. And I I think this is also true for things like Copilot. So the I think the 2 most ubiquitous tools right now are Chat GPT and Copilot for the everyday user. The other one that I've recently really taken to is Gamma. Have you played around with Gamma much?

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:18:14]: No. I don't think I have.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:15]: Gamma is great. I actually designed my lecture using Gamma. It is a tool that you can take a Word document of, like, just an outline and upload it, and it will generate a PowerPoint for you based on what you've put into the Word document. If you want it to, it will also generate a ton of detail. Inocuous or not, it will also generate images that sometimes are really funky, but we we can get into images in a second. But what it did, I asked it to make a sandwich as an example of of how to do this. So I put in 10 lines of what I think are the basic instructions on how to make a sandwich. And then you can choose if you want it to give you basic output, kind of middle output, or thorough output, and it will just go to town about sauces and vegetables and slicing and toasting bread and types of cheese and things like that.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:19:01]: So I think the sandwich example is an easy one because it can show you what it will take, which is make a sandwich, take some bread, add some veggies, add some protein, add some cheese, eat your sandwich, which is basically what I gave it. They turned it into a 10 slide PowerPoint, elaborate, elaborate, elaborate PowerPoint. So check out Gamma if you get a chance. What other tools are you using that people should know about?

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:19:20]: So like you said, the biggest sort of general purpose are CAT KPTN being Copilot right now. And they have got a different focus. Copilot's really working to integrate to the Office 365 suite in some interesting ways that I think have a lot of promise for administration, especially at universities. As we've all been on email chains with 45 professors and really, really wish that we could have an instantaneous summary of what's been happening, Copilot can do that. It can summarize everything that that that's been going on. It can even summarize the text of ongoing meetings less well, but from recordings identify what was said and give you the bullet points. So I think the administrative side will see a lot of Copilot in these applications in particular. Another prominent sort of general model is gonna be Anthropic's Claude model, which is like OpenAI's CATGPT in effect.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:20:06]: And at various times, they pulled ahead of one another and which one produces, in some sense, the best quality output. So these are sort of the major commercial general use systems. There are specialized systems. So I use one called site dotaiscite.ai. Maybe I should ask for, like, a a free month.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:26]: We are not sponsored by site.ai.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:20:27]: No. We are not. Right? But what it does is solve the problem that ChatTPD has or at least tries to solve the problem of making stuff up. So it is designed to look around a large corpora of published academic work and identify articles that relate to various topics. It can even write you a sort of general overview of our topic that has these articles. And for researchers like myself, when I when I do research, it can be very helpful in a lot of ways. One is I need to find a quick literature review, essentially. Give me 10 articles that talk about this topic in contrasting ways, and it will generate a pretty decent list.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:21:04]: The other and the one that is very much time saving as I'm sure you've encountered this too is, you know, when you're writing a a long paper, you've read 45, 50, a 100 articles on some topic, And you remember that one of them said something like this. And your options are pretty much to control f and go through every document looking for keywords. But if you get the keyword wrong, you're just gonna have to keep doing this over and over again. So you can give Cite a list of articles and ask it to make inferences based just on those articles. And you can say things like, where which of these articles is likely to have said something like this? And it can give you some direction there. So it's been a very interesting tool, and I think one that a lot of people in the academic areas will will look at. Another thing to keep in mind is that there are also open source versions of these tools. So things like Hugging Face is is a prominent I know it's a weird name.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:21:57]: A prominent provider of these sorts of sources which allow people to make custom tools and tools that might protect data in ways that are really important. So there are 2 ways to go. You keep you you brought up the data security point which is really important. There are 2 ways for an institution to go here. 1 is to work with a provider to develop a data security agreement and to ensure that your institutional data will not be used for training a model. We can do that, and and institutions have done that. And I believe Duke has done this with Copilot, can do this with CAT KPT, and sometimes you'll set up a sort of private instance of one of these models where you put it on a server that is sort of isolated from the rest of the system. So this is one way that institutions can handle the privacy issue.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:22:36]: Another though is to build one in house. Now these models tend to be not as well fine tuned. They tend to be based on sort of the base model. So when we talk about chat to GPT, right, the GPT refers to a foundation model, which is a general purse purpose model, which can be used in various ways by various tools to create whatever output you want. ChatGPT is a specialized tool made by a specific company. Right? It's a packaging of that for sort of client use. There's other ones like, Lambda is another prominent foundation model. And so you can use one of those, take it yourself to, be adequate to your purposes, but then you're going to be dealing with the need to maintain that system more in house.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:23:15]: You won't be automatically keeping up with improvements that are becoming standard elsewhere in the world like you would with a commercially mainstream model. And the process of fine tuning and improving performance can be really expertise and time intensive.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:29]: You've mentioned prompting the models a couple of times. I think this is an important point for us to get to. The philosophy I've come to adopt after watching, you know, hundreds of YouTube videos on how to prompt these systems well is garbage in, garbage out. That is, I think, the best way that we can encapsulate how how to prompt one of these systems. Meaning that the more specific that you can get with your prompt, the more likely you are to get a usable reply. And if you are putting in nonsense or garbage, you're going to get nonsense or garbage back on the other side. So for example, if I want to write a paper, and don't do this for your academic integrity reasons, but if I wanted to write a paper on the future of student affairs and I put in to the GPT program, write me a paper on the future of student affairs, it's gonna go every which way. But if I put in write me a paper on the future of student affairs that covers the integration of artificial intelligence and the replacement of human jobs with AI and make sure that it is in a professional style and uses at least 10 sources, I'm gonna get a much different output than if I just said that very simple thing at the front.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:24:37]: Learning how to prompt is an important part of learning how to use these tools, both for us and for our students. Right? So this is when I when I talked about the need to teach students how to use these tools. I teach research methods in some of my classes that are now based around the effective use of these tools. We need to learn how to prompt them and how to interpret their output in ways that are helpful. And there are a lot of different approaches to crafting prompts that produce a sort of certain desired behaviors. Generally, this is called prompt design, which can be contrasted with prompt engineering, which has more to do with efficiency of a performance of a system. But when you design a prompt, there's a lot of different ways to do this. I use sometimes cane of thought or instruct models, but the basic idea for both of these is to deal with a problem that most of these systems have, which is that they don't follow rules very well.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:25:26]: So, again, let's bring back the case of adviser GPT. Right? If I ask it, how do I major in philosophy without taking logic? It might say, oh, go. Yeah. Here's how you would do it. You would have to take all these other courses and talk to your adviser and get these substitutions, but what it ought to say is you can't. The systems are designed to be helpful. They will find you an answer even if it's wrong unless you tell it not to. And so with careful sort of design methodologies, you can say, okay.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:25:53]: Well, you don't you know, first, you review the bulletin and look for an answer to the question, then you craft an answer to the question, then you make sure that the answer you are about to give me is correct. If you don't if if you cannot find a citation in the bulletin, do not give the answer and instruct me instead that this is you don't know. Right? This is a really important thing, actually, teaching them how to tell you they don't know. And so prompt design really radically changes things. It's also one of the things that makes it, in some sense, more dangerous for academic integrity than people realize. It's very common for people to sit down with this tool and take the vanilla out of the box ChatPpt and say, well, I asked it my questions. It gave terribly bland answers. That's fine.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:26:33]: I would either be able to tell this or it wouldn't do well in my class anyway. But a student who knows what they're doing could upload your syllabus, the rubric for the assignment, any samples you've given, could upload work they have written in the past and say, match this style so that it's gonna sound like them writing for you. And and that's a a thing we need to understand.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:53]: I'm sorry. I I think this is a this is the critical juncture right now of where especially student affairs is with academic integrity and AI because a lot of universities put the AI and I use AI doubly here because we say academic integrity is AI as well as artificial intelligence. But the responsibility for academic integrity falls into student affairs spaces at a large number of universities. So what is your best pro tip on how to identify whether an essay was generated by a large language model in part or in whole?

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:27:25]: So I I'll return to the analogy earlier that having your paper written for you by CAT GPT is kind of like hiring someone to write it for you. You will not, in most cases, be able to use automated tools to identify effectively whether or not a paper has been written by a large language model or Any Script generative AI. In fact, OpenAI pulled their tool down. Now there's some word that they might have a tool that does this, but the way their tool was intended to work was specifically with reference to work it produced. It would encode essentially a watermark in the way it codes words that would be undetectable to most readers, but they could detect in the statistical properties of the way the words are related. But, of course, that wouldn't work if someone used Claude. Right? If they used a different system, you no longer have that watermark system. So my big my first message is do not rely on automated detection of AI content.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:28:17]: It will not work effectively based on my understanding, and you're really risking unfairly penalizing students in ways that are not productive. The second is talk to them the same way that you would if you thought someone they had paid someone to write this paper. Say, you know, I find that your your use of this, William's 1998 paper really interesting. How did you come across that paper? They should have an answer, right, especially if this is reasonably close for the period when they wrote it. Right? Or, you know, you use this this term a lot. Can you explain to me what you mean by this term? These kinds of questions can give you a better sense. But in a lot of ways, we are now back to a period of academic integrity that many of our younger faculty, including myself, have never existed in before, which is there is not going to be certainty any long. Right? I'm used to only penalizing students for academic integrity when I went on Turnitin and went, oh, yeah.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:29:11]: Or I, you know, pulled a phrase and went to Google and looked it up and, well, there it is. Right? That's probably done at least for the foreseeable future. So get comfortable with ambiguity, return, and think very seriously about the standards of evidence that you are using to assess academic integrity, what degree of certainty you need to feel you have to feel confident in leveling certain types of penalties, and understand that this is going to become a more intensive investigating procedure than was often the case in recent years.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:39]: This is such a tricky space because I feel like it's a losing battle for those of us who work in the academic integrity space of whack a mole. Right? Is this one generated? Is this not generated? And the tools are only gonna get better. So, again, the question is really what are we trying to assess from our students and why are we trying to assess it? And now the third question is how are we going to assess it in a way that ensures that they're they're learning? And so we we do have, generative tools that can do voice. We have generative tools that can do writing. We have generative tools that can do images, and these are all getting more sophisticated. So, you know, in 5 years' time, there may not be a discernible difference, and we will see what happens. Right now, these programs can't do hands. It's the oddest thing.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:21]: If you ask a program to generate you an image of a human hand, they they somehow can't figure that one out. And the other one I saw interestingly the other day was that no large language model can correctly tell you the number of r's in the word strawberry because of the way that the algorithm is broken down.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:30:38]: So so there are some definite limitations. They're also bad at teeth. Anything that requires them to see inside of what they're doing, they are bad at. So they can't count, for instance. Right? So this is the number of r's in strawberry. They'll often struggle because they see that as a single unit and they can't crack it open to look at what's inside of it. So they're just very confused. If you ask them word counts, they can even struggle with that sometimes.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:30:58]: I think one thing you brought up is really important here is academic integrity is associated with the kinds of assessments we're using. And in fact, its function to some large degree is to maintain the authenticity of those assessments. And a lot of what's going to have to be communicated here is that we need to rethink assessment like we said earlier. And this is going to push back in some sense on faculty. Faculty need to be working with their academic integrity units to understand what can still be meaningfully assessed, what can still be meaningfully maintained in the classroom. If you really need to know that a student knows the date of some event or can analyze some text off the top of their head. Again, you should be doing that in class where such concerns are simply gone. Right? The blue book is gonna make a fierce comeback, I predict.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:31:44]: So, otherwise, we need to just be more critical about the kinds of assignments we use. A lot of us are operating on tradition. Same things with how we understand academic integrity is largely influenced by a long academic tradition that operated under a form of intellectual productivity that may no longer be a form that we will be operating under. And so we need to adapt to those changes even in concepts as basic as what does it mean to have academic integrity and what am I doing in this ethics class.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:11]: Which is an ethical question. Indeed. Very meta. Well, Daniel, this season's theme is the past, present, and future of student affairs. And knowing you're on the faculty side of things, you might have an interesting perspective for us. So I'm gonna ask you our 3 questions on our theme for the season. So focus on the past, What's one component of the history of the student affairs profession or tradition that you think we should continue to carry forward or to let go of?

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:32:33]: I think looking at the things I wanna carry forward is again, I think I said this a bit earlier, but I I think of teaching and student affairs and the university as a whole more and more of as a care profession and as a mentoring process. This is work intensive. It can be exhausting and frustrating, but I think it's the important thing. And this is something we see, I think, taken more seriously in some sense in prior iterations of what the university meant. Now in some sense, that's because they didn't have the large class sizes that we're dealing with. They didn't have huge universities that sprawled in this way and had as their mission to bring education to a large number of people. Right? Education was an elite thing. But if we can capture that, that sort of deep powerful connection, that deep mentoring, then we still have a value add.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:33:24]: Right? Then we're still contributing somehow to their development as a person. And in a sense, answering the question that the university has been facing since the dawn of the printing press, which is if I can just go read this there, why do I need to talk to you?

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:36]: Conan Gutenberg. Okay. Alright. So our question on the present. What is happening in the field of student affairs or higher ed right now that's going well for student affairs in general?

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:33:45]: I think we're becoming much more aware of campus cultures and the way that they need to be maintained effortfully. There are debates and reasonable ones to be had about what exact boundaries we want to set on our cultures, but I think for much of our history, we haven't really been engaging with that question as substantively and as effectively as we have recently. To connect back to the AI concern, one thing that we need to think about very seriously is that these tools not only enable academic integrity violations, but student conduct violations of the kinds that we may never have seen.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:17]: Automated harassment is a very real possibility now.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:34:17]: We've already seen this in some it in the broader world. We've seen things like revenge porn being fabricated with AI tools. We've seen falsified videos and audio using other people's voices. These are questions that we are gonna have to start figuring out both how to protect our students from administratively, right? What standards of safety and security we put in play and also how we react to these sorts of things.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:47]: And moving towards the future, in an ideal world, what does the field of student affairs need to do to thrive going forward?

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:34:54]: Oh, that's a big question. I suppose, I mean, the short and easy answer is to continue to focus on students. I do think there's a version of focusing too much on students that can be problematic for universities where we become too customer service oriented. We need to avoid that. I think the analogy that I find more effective is the gym. Right? Which is, look, we're here to help you learn, help you grow, but you have to come and still have to do the work. Right? We're not gonna lift the weights for you. And so I think student affairs institutionally and, you know, faculty as well, we need to think a lot about how to promote and prepare the student for the world world that is coming.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:35:26]: And that is always changing. Right? And in a sense changing maybe faster these days than it was in history. And so maybe it made hitting a sense of flexibility and continual check-in and continual responsiveness is an aspect of this. So like a continual reflective response to students needs and the likely future realities that they will face. That might be my answer, I think.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:47]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:53]: Welcome back to the NASPA World! I'm really excited to be able to share some of that with you today. Every October, NASPA celebrates the profession of student affairs. It's a month long celebration of careers in student affairs. In this month long celebration, the NASPA community comes together to share knowledge, network, and uplift the student affairs profession. There's a number of great activities that are happening throughout the month that you can take advantage of, that you can get involved in and encourage you to go into the NASPA online learning community to check out all of the resources that have been brought together in one place for careers and student affairs month. And think about ways in which you can talk about our career with people on your campus, with undergraduate students, graduate students, and more. There's a couple of opportunities for you to be able to submit proposals for a few of the upcoming symposiums and institutes that are happening within our community. The 2025 NASPA International Symposium proposal submission deadline is October 15th.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:36:56]: The International Symposium serves as a dynamic platform for student affairs professionals globally to share insights, engage in meaningful dialogue, and network, as well as practitioners interested in further developing their global competency skills. The international symposium is happening on March 15th 16th, and program submission deadlines are available on the NASPA website. And you can do a proposal for a flash lightning talk, a general intersession, poster session, or scholarly paper. Highly encourage you to submit a proposal today. Also, the 2025 NASA Community College Institute Institute proposals are due on October 18th. The 2025 Institute will focus on celebrating the achievements of student affairs professionals, equipping new generations for success in transforming the field through collaboration and mentorship. As mentioned, the deadline for proposals is October 18th, and I hope that you will submit a program and help shape the future of our profession. The NASPA public policy division award applications are due October 12th.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:38:02]: The NASPA public policy professional award honors exceptional leadership and commitment in student affairs through public policy. Nominate a deserving colleague with a letter of nomination to support letters and their resume. Don't miss this chance to shine or to shine a spotlight on an exemplary colleague. Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways. Because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself, where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:39:14]: I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:44]: Chris, thank you so much for another great addition of NASPA World. It's always great to know what's going on in and around NASPA. And, Daniel, we have reached our lightning round where I have 7 questions for you in about 90 seconds. Are you ready to go?

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:39:58]: We'll find out.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:59]: Alright. Question number 1. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:40:04]: Time For Tea. I don't know. It's a weird song I really like.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:07]: Number 2, when you were 5 years old, what did you wanna be when you grew up?

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:40:11]: A father, husband, and a good man.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:12]: Number 3, who's your most influential professional mentor?

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:40:15]: Walter Sinnott Armstrong at Duke.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:17]: Number 4, your essential higher education read.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:40:20]: Why don't students like school?

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:21]: Number 5, the best TV show you've binged lately.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:40:24]: The Sopranos. A little out of date, going back to the classics there.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:27]: Number 6, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:40:31]: Recently, it's going to be History of Philosophy Without Any Gaps, a fantastic podcast for anyone interested in the history of philosophy without any gaps.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:38]: Number 7, finally, any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional?

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:40:42]: I oppose to everyone here at DKU who's been so responsive and helpful as we move forward towards an AI enabled future. We really had a lot of people who've been supporting these kinds of efforts. Noah Pichis and and Ben van Overmeijer, has been engaged in a lot of I I would have I would have to think, Ying Chong. Really, just everybody here has been very on board, I feel like, with this effort. And, you know, that's been very influential in getting this going.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:05]: Well, Daniel, it's been a pleasure to speak with you on this topic. I think this is a conversation we're gonna continue to have in higher education for many, many years to come. If anyone would like to connect with you on your expertise on AI or philosophy, how can they find you?

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:41:17]: So the easiest way is to email me at [email protected]@dukecoonshaun.edu.cn. You can also find me on my website, danielweissglass. That's danielweiss blast.com. It's just my name, which I suppose will be in the show note.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:37]: Those show notes are partially generated by AI.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:41:40]: Fantastic. And I really am happy to talk about any of this stuff, and I expect to have even more interesting things to say in the near future. There's some interesting stuff happening here, and I think we'll we'll soon be in a position to continue the conversation.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:52]: Well, Daniel, again, a pleasure to have you on the show to talk with you about this area of subject matter expertise, and thank you so much for sharing your voice with us today.

Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:42:00]: Thank you, Jill. It was a lot of fun.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:06]: This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field brought to you by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to be grateful full that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email us at sa voices at naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a 5 star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It truly does help other student affairs pros find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:44]: That's me. Produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

In the latest episode of SA Voices From The Field Dr. Jill Creighton has an engaging conversation with Lindsay Mason, a seasoned mid-level manager in student affairs at Colorado State University. The discussion revolves around the evolving landscape of student affairs, emphasizing the growing role of data, the need for AI and data science training, and the critical integration of social work theories. Let's delve into the key takeaways from this insightful episode.

The Data-Driven Evolution in Student Affairs

Mason highlights the increasing reliance on data in decision-making processes within student affairs. With technological advancements and the influx of data, professionals in this field can make more informed decisions that better support student needs. Dr. Creighton also underscores the importance of AI and data science training to enhance assessment practices.

Given the complexities of student demographics and the diversity of their needs, the ability to analyze and interpret data becomes crucial. This shift not only aids in identifying issues but also in implementing effective, evidence-based solutions. As student affairs continue to evolve, professionals must keep pace with these advancements to provide holistic support.

Integrating Social Work Theories

Mason advocates for embedding social work theories into student affairs programs. By doing so, institutions can offer more comprehensive support structures that cater to the multifaceted challenges students face. Social work theories emphasize empathy, community building, and systemic change—elements that are essential in fostering an inclusive campus environment.

This integration helps student affairs professionals to address issues such as mental health, food security, and housing instability more effectively. By viewing students through a social work lens, professionals can develop more tailored and impactful interventions.

The Critical Role of Town-Gown Relationships

The episode delves into the significance of town-gown relationships, a core component of Mason's role at Colorado State University. Town-gown work involves fostering collaboration between the university and the surrounding community, which is vital for professional development and creating a supportive environment for students.

Mason discusses her unique position split between the university and the city, focusing on conflict resolution and building partnerships with local stakeholders. This role is pivotal in mediating between long-term residents and student populations, ensuring harmony and cooperation within the community.

Addressing Housing and Food Security

The rising costs of housing and food insecurity are significant barriers to student enrollment and retention. Mason emphasizes the importance of supporting students facing these challenges, highlighting initiatives like the student resolution center and the fall clean-up program. Dr. Creighton agrees, noting the difficulty in identifying and supporting students with temporary housing issues.

Efforts to combat these issues are multifaceted, involving collaboration with local police services, property managers, and community liaisons. These partnerships are integral to creating resources that address the basic needs of students, thereby fostering a stable environment conducive to academic success.

Challenging Professionalism Norms

Mason and Dr. Creighton discuss the need to challenge traditional definitions of professionalism within student affairs. Ensuring that the profession is inclusive of all identities is paramount for social justice. Dr. Creighton provides a personal example, leading with visible facial piercings and tattoos, symbolizing acceptance and inclusivity.

Mason notes that embracing diverse expressions of professionalism empowers students and staff alike, encouraging authenticity and a sense of belonging. As the field evolves, redefining professionalism to be more inclusive will be crucial for supporting a diverse student body.

Upcoming Opportunities for Professional Growth

Dr. Lewis shares exciting opportunities for professional development, such as the upcoming annual NASPA conference and the 2025 NASPA Institute for New AVPs. These platforms are essential for networking, skill enhancement, and staying abreast of industry trends.

He encourages members to update their profiles to take advantage of these engagement opportunities, indicating the importance of continual learning and growth in the dynamic field of student affairs.

Mentorship and Influence

Throughout the episode, Mason acknowledges the profound impact of mentorship in her career. She mentions influential mentors like Jeannie Ortega, Emily Seams, and Nancy Rhodes, and her admiration for Cal Newport's work on deep, meaningful work.

These influences have shaped her approach to student affairs, emphasizing the value of dedicated, thoughtful engagement with work and continuous personal development.

A Path Forward

As student affairs continue to adapt and grow, the insights shared by Lindsay Mason highlight the importance of embracing data-driven decision-making, integrating social work theories, and focusing on inclusivity and social justice. The episode underscores the dynamic nature of the field and the need for ongoing professional development to better serve diverse student populations.

Through collaborative efforts, innovative approaches, and a commitment to fostering inclusive environments, student affairs professionals can navigate the challenges and opportunities of the evolving higher education landscape.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:00]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you happen to be. Be. This is season 11, the past, present, and future of student affairs, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton, she, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Today on essay voices from the field, we welcome Lindsay Mason. Lindsay is a first generation college student from a blue collar working class family. She currently serves as the director of off campus life at Colorado State University as one of the NASPA off campus and commuter student services knowledge community co chairs, and she teaches and advises graduate students studying student affairs. Lindsay's career has focused on town gown work for over a decade.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:50]: She earned her bachelor's degree in sociology from California State University, San Marcos, a master's degree in student affairs and higher education from Colorado State University, and a PhD in higher education and student affairs leadership from the University of Northern Colorado. Lindsay, welcome to SA Voices.

Lindsay Mason [00:01:06]: Thanks for having me, Jill. I'm excited to be here.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:08]: In our pre show chatter, I was glad to get to know that we've spent time in similar parts of the country along the front range in Colorado. I know that you're having a much more beautiful summer than I am here over in England.

Lindsay Mason [00:01:20]: It has been lovely this summer. Yeah. For sure.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:23]: Well, Lindsay, we're gonna be speaking to you today all about your experiences at the mid level in student affairs in the present day about what's going on with the features of your work, particularly around town gown and serving commuter based students. But before we get into all of that, we really like to start by getting to know you by asking how you got to your current seat.

Lindsay Mason [00:01:43]: So I did my undergrad at Cal State San Marcos. And I remember when I was at my orientation, there was this opportunity that was shared where incoming 1st year students could be matched up with a senior in our student government for, like, a mentorship opportunity. And I remember getting the sheet to fill out to say, yes, I wanna do this. And I remember one of the questions was, what do you want your mentor to know? And I think what they were trying to get at was, oh, are you wanting someone that has a certain major that's similar to yours? Or maybe you're really interested in fraternity and sorority life, so you're looking for someone that's in a fraternity or sorority. I literally wrote, they need to know everything I need to know because I'm 1st gen. I didn't know what I was doing. And so anyways, I got hooked up with this senior and he recommended that I joined the orientation team. And so that's what got me into student affairs at first was his recommendation.

Lindsay Mason [00:02:35]: And I had excellent supervisors and mentors when I worked in orientation. And Dilsey Perez, one of my supervisors, she said, Lindsay, you should go into student affairs, and you should go to Colorado State's program. I heard it's off the hook. And I was like, okay. And so that's how I ended up at Colorado State coming out of Southern California. Once I was finishing my degree, my husband was also studying at Colorado State. He was finishing his degree and he needed a couple more years and we thought, okay, we'll do 2 more years at CSU and then we're going to go back to California to be with family. Coincidentally, at the time, my department, off campus life, was hiring a temporary program coordinator for just 2 years.

Lindsay Mason [00:03:17]: And so it felt like the perfect fit. They need someone for 2 years. I only intend to be here for 2 years. And I was a commuter student all my undergraduate years, and so I thought, yeah, I could do this. So I ended up in my department just I was in the right place at the right time. But here I am, 11 years later, as the director. So, obviously, I stuck around, and I was the program coordinator for 5 years, got promoted to assistant director, and then interviewed and went got the director role. And I also ended up pulling my whole family out to Colorado with me.

Lindsay Mason [00:03:46]: So they ended up following me versus me going back. So I really kind of built my roots here and it all ended up kind of working out. And I think because I've been in my department for 11 years, I do find my work very fulfilling, and I'm learning something new every day. But I think being in the same department for a long time has also pushed me to seek challenges elsewhere to make sure that I continue to grow and develop. So I was interested in getting involved with NASPA in some capacity. I've been attending the annual conference every year and had presented multiple times, but I was interested in more. And my KC was founded back in 2019, I think. And so it's a pretty young KC and so I had been working with commuter students for several years.

Lindsay Mason [00:04:28]: I found out there was a KC that was being founded. And so I said, this feels like the right place for me to give some time and energy. And so I initially started as the research and assessment co chair for the KC, and then now eventually as the chair.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:42]: What are you all focused on right now in terms of practice sharing and kind of themes or up and coming future forward items for working with commuter students?

Lindsay Mason [00:04:51]: So a few things that we're working on. 1, we have a lot of questions coming in where members are asking what type of physical spaces other universities are providing for their commuter students. So we have a small task force that is focused on gathering information about commuter lounges. We have we're interested in launching a commuter appreciation week in partnership with other national organizations that also support commuter students. We also have a practical toolkit that we are nearly done developing that is helping people come across a lot in the KC is why do some people say commuter and why do some people come across a lot in the KC is why do some people say commuter and why do some people say off campus? So we did this study to find out why are some universities choosing one word over the other to define their students that live in the community. And it was so varied. We initially thought, oh, we maybe can try to propose a shared definition of what a commuter student is and what an off campus student is, but that quickly proved impossible. So rather, what we've developed is a set of questions that university staff can go through on their own to help them define what are our commuter students, who are our off campus students, and particularly thinking about the common intersecting identity with commuter or off campus students. So being a caregiver, having a job, how far are they commuting, if they're living with family, those types of things.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:25]: I would imagine that was a really tricky space to get to because oftentimes, even at our traditional 4 year institutions, by the time students hit 3rd 4th year, they're living off campus, but maybe wouldn't consider themselves in that off campus or commuter student space. Whereas if they're a student that's from that community, maybe they would. I totally see where that rubber meeting road became difficult for you all. So beyond the definitions then, let's talk a little bit about that support mechanism piece that you started to talk about. You mentioned lounges, you mentioned appreciation weeks. What else is going on in the off campus and commuter student land that student affairs professionals should know about, especially for those who don't focus specifically on this population?

Lindsay Mason [00:07:07]: I think as a nation, across many communities, we are seeing a housing crisis. And I think as housing costs only continue to rise, we are already seeing it, but we will only continue to see it to be a bigger retention issue. There are already many students that are choosing where they go to college based on what the cost of living is there. And I think about how in my type of work, I'm working within systems, specifically off campus housing markets, where I am both reliant on that market existing, but the way that I accomplish my work and the way that maybe property managers accomplish their work sometimes aligns and sometimes does not. And it is hard to be reliant on an industry that I do not always align with. So I do a lot of basic needs work at my university, specifically around housing. I also do transportation work because I happen to supervise the university safe ride program, which is not common for people that do my type of work. That's a unique setup.

Lindsay Mason [00:08:09]: I support folks on campus who do food security work, and sometimes I'll describe it as we as a country have a surplus of food. We just don't do a good job in making sure that it doesn't go wasted. We do not have a surplus of housing, and so we are trying to work within this basic needs that does not have a surplus that is easily fixed. On top of housing being, it's an expensive thing to build and live in. There's a lot of legalities behind housing. So when I think about off campus and commuter students, I think about how are they managing even now to afford rent, and when will we really start to see the negative impacts of a significant portion of our students choosing not to come to a certain area of the country because of housing? Well, let me back up. Nope. Let me back up.

Lindsay Mason [00:08:57]: Are we able to accurately capture how many students will choose not to come to our institutions because of housing costs? I think that's an incredibly difficult statistic to measure, but I think it is impacting who chooses to matriculate and then and our retention rates.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:17]: I absolutely agree with you on that. And we also have a crisis of housing among students who are struggling with temporary housing processes. Right? So when I was working with fundamental needs, specifically at a r one d one on the West Coast, one of the things that we learned was that most students who are unhoused or struggling with permanent housing aren't identifying themselves to the institution, probably because we've never given them a mechanism to do so. And then also are more likely not to self identify as unhoused because they're couch surfing with their friends. They might spend a couple of nights with friend a and a couple of nights with friend b and continually move. And so they have some housing security, but it's not full housing security. And those types of things are hard for institutions to measure, hard to communicate with students because we can't yet, find out who those students are. And then even more difficult to keep going down the road of, well, okay, now we've found you.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:11]: How do we help you now? Because as you mentioned, rent costs are very, very high, especially in smaller markets where a lot of our traditional 4 years are and rent costs are exponentially high when we have urban campuses. So it's quite a challenge. I know that part of your work is town gown related. And in the community you're in, there's, I think, a substantially sized community around the institution, which is a nice benefit to a degree, but it's not quite a major metro. So thinking about that, how do you negotiate, as you mentioned, the values of what you need to do to keep your students' food and housing secure with the realities of a capitalist housing market?

Lindsay Mason [00:10:49]: So I would say all of my work that I do is town gown in some capacity. There isn't anything I do that isn't related to how our students are experiencing our community, what they're contributing to the community, how they're being impacted by the community they live in. So sometimes at the end of the year, we all have our annual evaluations and we are asked, can you give us a list of 5 to 10 colleagues that you would want to complete a peer evaluation for you? And when I think about my peers, I think just as quickly about my city colleagues as I do about my institution's colleagues. In fact, I share a position with the city. I co supervise with my city. I have someone that's 50% in my office and 50% in the city of Fort Collins neighborhood services. So I'm working with folks in the city daily. So when I think about folk that I I'm also working with property managers daily.

Lindsay Mason [00:11:41]: And in fact, my office created and hired a position called a property manager liaison because we wanted someone in our office who used to work for a apartment complex or property manager. I've never been a property manager. I don't know what it's like to live that life, but I work with them every day and I'm so reliant on their industry. I wanted to have a better insight of how they do their work. So your question, what am I considering as I'm trying to work with folks, I think about what are their values, what are their bottom lines, what are their culture, what's their department's culture in a variety of ways? So, again, I I work with neighborhood services a lot in the city, and I think about neighborhood services reporting line. Who do they report up to? And what's it like for them to speak to city council, which is different than what maybe what it's like for me as a director to speak to my vice president or president and eventually up to board of governors. Or I work with police a lot because I do a lot of safety related things off campus related to drunk driving and parties and things like that. And that police culture is very different than student affairs culture.

Lindsay Mason [00:12:46]: When I think about working with property managers, they are working both with a national management company, but they also probably have a separate owner. Not always, but likely 2 different entities that they're that they have to report to. So this isn't a specific answer, but that's something I think a lot about in my work. I can't just consider how will whatever I wanna do be received at my institution. I'm thinking about a variety of partners and what it will be like for them because I can't do my work without those partners. I do nothing alone. Right? Everything is with my partners, whether they're in city offices or local properties around us.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:21]: I wanna go back to the position that you identified as being half time with the city and half time with the university. That is a really unique model that I don't think we see a lot in higher education, and it sounds like a fantastic way to solve some of the challenges of the 2, big major entities collaborating. Can you talk to us about how that came to life for your institution and what that person's function is and some of the pros and cons of it? And I guess I could be a better descriptor of it that, yes,

Lindsay Mason [00:13:47]: technically, they spend half their physical time with the city, half their physical time with the university, but everything they're doing is university city work or town gown work. Everything is connected. So that position has existed since 2000. At the time, we were seeing a huge amount of disruptions in our local neighborhoods around campus, particularly large parties and riot. And so a lot of town gown efforts came out at that time, and one of them was this shared position. It now is so well established that I sign an inter gov I sign an intergovernmental agreement with the city only once every decade because we commit to it a decade at a time. So it's well established and well respected. So logistically, the position is housed at CSU.

Lindsay Mason [00:14:35]: We had to pick one entity for, like, HR purposes. You know, where does the paycheck come from? All those things. And so we decided that it was gonna be based at the institution, but we get half of the salary from the city and half of the programmatic dollars from the city. There are complications that come with working within 2 entities but only truly being employed by 1 entity on paper, so at the city they have to be classified as a contractor. So they get access to a lot, but there are a couple of city systems that are difficult for them to access. Sometimes the technology is a little difficult because both of us have protected systems to log into, and again, being a city contractor, they don't get all the same access. But they have 2 email addresses, and that's purposeful because depending if the community liaison, that's the title of the position, I can't remember if I said that, depending if the community liaison is talking to a student resident or what we call a long term resident. That's the best way I distinguish between someone who's a CSU student and someone who's not a CSU student.

Lindsay Mason [00:15:39]: But, of course, we don't like to identify people by what they're not. Sometimes they'll give them their city email and sometimes their CSU email because we want to be clear that this person isn't here just to represent 1 population. They're here for everybody that lives in our community, regardless of their affiliation with CSU or not. Their work is really focused in the neighborhoods that have high a high mixture of long term residents and student residents. Their position does some people say like boots on the ground type work. So if there's a long term resident and a student resident that live next door and they're having conflict because of noise or parking issues or something like that. The community liaison is trained in mediation to go out and have a direct conversation with those neighbors, but they are also leading high level partnerships between the university and the city that also do neighborhood type work. So, for example, every week, we have a meeting that involves myself and our student resolution center at CSU.

Lindsay Mason [00:16:34]: Our student resolution center houses our conflict resolution services and our student conduct services. And then we also have neighborhood services in Fort Collins Police Services. We are meeting regularly and that is led by our community liaison because they're living in both worlds. They're at different staff meetings. They get the best understanding of what types of resources these different departments have. So the community liaison is leading us through what new partnerships can we build or what different resources can we bring to proactively and reactively support our neighborhoods around campus. The position, I agree, is incredibly valuable. I think excellent strategy for town gown relations, and it takes maintenance.

Lindsay Mason [00:17:17]: It takes effort from, particularly from both myself and the manager of neighborhood services to make sure that we're in alignment and that we trust each other and that we both accept responsibility for what's happening in the neighborhoods around campus, that both of us are invested in that work. And so over the years, the manager at neighborhood services and the director of off campus life, we have changed. And it's important that we are telling the story of the importance of this position, the history of this position, and why the position needs to continue.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:49]: How do you all make yourselves known to the long term residents of the community? I feel like, you know, being kind of housed at the institution, communicating with our students is always its own challenge, but a much easier prospect at the end of the day than trying to make yourselves known and your services known to members of the community that have probably lived there longer than anyone's been in their roles.

Lindsay Mason [00:18:10]: Yeah. So we have several programs that take place out in the community. Some of which are opt in by the long term residents, so they would need to know what's happening, but some of it is because we're literally walking up to their door. So, for example, the first Wednesday of classes, we will host our annual community welcome event where we get a couple 100 volunteers. The volunteers are a mix of city staff, CSU staff, CSU students, and some long term residents. And we go in teams door to door in the neighborhoods around campus to either welcome them to the neighborhood or welcome them to the academic year. We talk about changes upcoming for this year that might impact the local neighborhoods. But then also remind them about the art of neighboring, the importance of being a good neighbor.

Lindsay Mason [00:18:53]: So we have some programs like that where we are going to them no matter what. They will see us. Then we have some other long standing programs where we send out mailings, And then we also have some long standing programs where neighbors can opt in. For example, we do a fall cleanup program where a couple thousand students will go out and rake leaves for mostly elderly or disabled residents to help them be able to age in their home. When we advertise those types of opportunities that are opt in, we are really using more city communication than we are university communication. So neighborhood services has their newsletter. They use Next store. We run stories in our local newspaper.

Lindsay Mason [00:19:31]: So as an institution, I don't think I could effectively do that without my partnerships in the city. And then our community liaison is also going out to many city events and introducing themselves, talking to neighbors at events where the university would not normally be present. And so, I mean, some of our neighbors, sometimes when they have questions or tension or something, sometimes they call our office or call neighborhood services and they know. They're like, I need to talk to the community liaison. I know that's a resource you have, and they name it. And that for me is, well, I don't love that they're experiencing whatever tension it is. I'm like, oh, I'm glad you know though that we do care, and we have someone dedicated to working through that with you.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:06]: Let's shift gears a little bit because one of the things that I think you've been able to do in your position is really grow from that program temporary coordinator into the person leading the office, And then ultimately with the director title and where you're organizationally situated, you're a true mid level manager in student affairs. What do you see as shifting right now for mid level managers in terms of your responsibilities or day to day worlds that may have been a little different than when you entered the field? And where do you see it going in the next couple of years?

Lindsay Mason [00:20:38]: I'll share some thoughts I'm having, but I know that my perspective is, of course, heavily influenced by being a director of a small unit. There are 7 career staff in my team, which there could be some departments that are, like, I'm a department of 2. You seem much bigger. But in comparison to, like, a housing department or a rec center or a health network. Right? Those are quite large. So I know being a mid level manager in a smaller department. In addition, I'm also a mid level manager at a large university. One change I see coming, which I think is great, is the amount of data or reporting out that we are required to do.

Lindsay Mason [00:21:17]: I think it is a positive trend for us as a profession that we are being asked to be more clear about the data that we are using to make decisions. It is difficult on departments that do not have an assessment assigned person. We're not big enough or have the resources to have someone that does, you know, assessment or evaluation or a program review as their dedicated job. So that's difficult. Okay. I have one that maybe more people will relate to. When I finished my master's in 2013, it was standard that in order to get an entry level student affairs role, you had to have a master's in student affairs. It is not like that anymore.

Lindsay Mason [00:21:56]: As a profession, particularly because of the hiring and job turnover that happened during COVID, We are seeing particularly because of the job turnover that happened during COVID, but also because our pay and our profession has not kept pace in decades with where we should be paid. We are seeing a bigger trend of entry level roles being hired with folks that do not have a student affairs background. Now on the one hand, I love that. I love that I have someone in my office that comes out of property management and not from student affairs or someone that is coming more from a psychology or social work background and not out of student affairs. I think all that is great. It also, as a mid level manager, while supervising entry level employees is already a pull on mid level managers, training more entry level employees about our profession on the job is an even bigger pull. And, and that can be difficult. It can be more time consuming.

Lindsay Mason [00:22:53]: Again, these people with other types of backgrounds, they bring a lot of value to our work, and I'm excited to have folks that aren't in student affairs, But I'm having to relearn how I onboard employees to include things like student development theory and things like that that traditionally they would have had training in. So that's maybe a trend that I've seen, and I think will only continue.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:14]: That's a great segue into our theme questions for this season. On the past, what's one component of the history of the student affairs profession that you think that we need to let go of?

Lindsay Mason [00:23:25]: I like that student affairs professionals have a history of removing barriers for students of all identities to be able to gain access to higher ed. I felt that as a student, and I feel it in my working life that that's an important piece of what I do. But as a student affairs professional from a working class background, the definitions of professionalism I must meet feel outdated at best to me. I struggle with how I was encouraged to be more authentic as a student. But then once I represented the university, I had to fall in line with white middle class professionalism. So I want us not that there's no movement, but I wish more folks challenged how we define professionalism in our profession that is trying to work towards social justice.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:24:20]: That's a beautifully put statement. I agree with you. And I've seen some really great presentations at NASPA in the last couple of years around dress codes in particular and who they serve and who they don't and whose standard are we really enforcing. So that's a really good one to hang on to. And I see this as a person who shows up every day with very visible facial piercings, and I'm not taking them out for anybody. So

Lindsay Mason [00:24:42]: As you shouldn't.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:24:43]: I'll be a great example of someone who can lead at the senior levels in student affairs, but also show up with visible tattoos and face piercings. I'm gonna keep doing it. Number 2, we're moving towards the present. What's happening in the field right now that's going well for us?

Lindsay Mason [00:24:57]: I mentioned it earlier, our increasing usage of data. We need to be more clear about how we're using data to make our decisions. I feel our profession wanes in and out of how other people at our institutions and then certainly outside of higher education value the work that we do. Sometimes it is very evident, and sometimes it isn't. And how are we sharing data to tell our stories and to show that our work is theory and data driven? It's not random.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:24]: I think this is an area where AI is going to help us a lot if we can get there. But a lot of the tools that we need for assessment cost money, and a lot of us don't have the depth of training we need from a statistics perspective or a data science perspective. And so it's this tension of continually being a person of all trades in our profession. And then knowing that data driven information helps us get positions, helps us retain budget, helps us grow our programs, helps us improve the student experience, all of those things. But most of us took one class in our master's programs if we did go for the master's and not all of us did. So that's gonna be an interesting trend to continue to track. And let's move towards the future, which is in an ideal world, what does the field need to do to thrive towards the future?

Lindsay Mason [00:26:11]: When I was reflecting on this, admittedly, I don't think my answer is from an ideal world. I was thinking more of just what do I think our profession needs? My answer certainly is heavily influenced by the fact that I do a lot of basic needs work. We need to study social work theories. I wish social work was more integrated into student affairs programs. I mean, even minimally as an elective to better inform how our students need to navigate both within our systems, but also navigating life outside of higher ed. So I think as a profession, we would benefit from more partnerships and more studying of social work theories.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:47]: And I'll give a shout out to student affairs organization called HECMA. It's the Higher Education Case Managers Association. They have both clinical and nonclinical tracks for case managers. These are people working in student care, both within counseling centers and teams of students offices, things like that. And they've started on that probably within the last 15 years or so. I would love to see that expand. That's a great perspective. Lindsay, anything else that you wanted to share on off campus and commuter students or the past, present, and future of student affairs?

Lindsay Mason [00:27:16]: I appreciate the opportunity to be on this podcast to to talk about working with commuter or off campus students and specifically more broadly doing town gown work. I think it is a fairly niche area of student affairs, although town gown work exists across multiple departments at a university and a city. So while it might be niche in student affairs, the work is incredibly fulfilling, and I'm learning a lot of skills that can be applicable in a variety of areas. So I feel like I'm getting a lot of great professional development because I do town gown work. I'm challenged in a different way working across multiple organizations outside of my institution. And while I landed in it a little randomly because I was in the right place at the right time, I'm so thankful that I'm here. And I would want others to know I think this town gown type work is meaningful. It matters.

Lindsay Mason [00:28:08]: It's challenging in a good way. And even if folks right now are not in a role that feels town gown, there is likely an opportunity for it to be so. So I think there's some cool expansion when a university and city or county or local areas think about working together. We do a lot of opportunities to do some cool

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:24]: things. It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:30]: Thanks so much, Joe. Glad to be back in the NASPA world, and there's a lot of things happening in NASPA this week. One of the dates to keep in mind as we're looking toward the future is the NASPA annual conference. It might seem like it's a long way away. However, it's not as far out as you think, and it is a perfect time for you to be thinking about making your plans, registering for the conference, and preparing for an amazing conference in New Orleans on March 15th through 19th. The focus areas of the conference this year are on well-being and healthy excellence in student affairs, changing the student affairs profession, and sustaining and celebrating the profession. There are so many opportunities to be able to take part in the conference, to learn, to grow, to be able to take all of that learning back to your own campuses. And if you've never attended a conference before or if this is your 10th or more conference, it is always a homecoming to go back to the conference and be able to reconnect with all of your professional colleagues.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:29]: It's the fall, and that means it's a perfect time to be able to do some, fall cleaning. And some of that fall cleaning means going into your NASPA profile to make sure that you are getting what you want. You can do that by going to the NASPA website atnaspa.org, clicking on my NASPA and logging in. When you log in, go to edit my profile and check all of the different links that are there. Make sure that your name and institution and all of the information and all of the information that's there is accurate. But then you want to go a little bit deeper and look at your engagement and be able to find out what are you actually signed up for. By clicking on my NASPA engagement, you have an opportunity to be able to sign up for different knowledge communities, journals, divisions, and groups, and be able to stay in the know of what is happening within NASPA. I highly encourage you to do this.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:24]: It doesn't take a lot of time. And after you add different things into your engagement portal, make sure to save it so that you will get informed about everything that you are most passionate about. Finally, today, I'm going to just throw out another professional development opportunity. I already talked about the annual conference, but I wanted to also talk about the 2025 NASPA Institute For New AVPs. The NASPA Institute For New AVPs is a foundational 3 day learning and networking experience designed to support and develop AVPs in their unique and challenging roles on campus. The institute is appropriate for AVPs and other senior level number twos who report to the highest ranking student affairs officer and who have been serving in their first AVP or number 2 position for no longer than 2 years. December 11th is the early registration deadline for this amazing professional development opportunity, which will be happening January 23rd through 25th in Columbus, Ohio. Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:22]: So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with the knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:43]: Chris, thank you so much for another edition of NASPA World. Always great to learn what's going on in and around NASPA. Lindsay, we have our lightning round ready for you. Seven questions, 90 seconds. You ready to go?

Lindsay Mason [00:32:55]: Okay. I'm ready.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:56]: All right. Number 1, If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

Lindsay Mason [00:33:01]: What's coming to mind for me is some type of country song. Not a lot of people in student affairs listen to country. There's a lot of assumptions about me because I listen to country, but I like country music, and I'm okay with that.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:11]: Number 2. When you were 5 years old, what did you want to be when you grew up?

Lindsay Mason [00:33:15]: Oh, a dozer operator. My dad's a heavy equipment operator. I really wanted to drive tractors. And even to this day, I my dad's a professional truck driver. I also one day, I wanna get my CDL license. I love thing big things with engines. I owned a school bus for a year, and I was like, let me go drive this school bus. And I offered it to other people to drive it, and they're like, I would never do that.

Lindsay Mason [00:33:34]: And I was like, how do you not wanna do this? So I wanted to drive big pieces of equipment.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:38]: My nephew would totally wanna spend all the time with you. He is currently obsessed with all things dozer related, Bob the Builder, all of it.

Lindsay Mason [00:33:45]: Love it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:46]: Number 3, who's your most influential professional mentor?

Lindsay Mason [00:33:49]: I have several women in particular in my life that have been excellent mentors for me. I think about women that influenced me heavily when I was an undergrad, people that were strong influences on me when I was in my masters, and then now as a professional. I'm gonna mention 3. The 3 women who worked full time in off campus life when I first started, Jeannie Ortega, Emily Seams, and Nancy Rhodes. I still work with Nancy. She and I are still together in our office. And I recently went to a lunch with all the career staff in my office except Nancy because she was visiting her mom in Florida. And I actually realized in that moment, I did not like being without my 3 original women because they placed such a heavy influence in my life.

Lindsay Mason [00:34:27]: So Jeanne Ortega, Emily Seams, Nancy Rhodes.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:29]: Number 4, your essential student affairs read.

Lindsay Mason [00:34:32]: Maybe a little nontraditional. I recently well, the last couple of years, I've been really digging Cal Newport and his work around deep meaningful work, so much so that I built a workshop that is offered through my university's talent development. And I like his techniques around developing my capacity to do focused, deep, meaningful work.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:52]: Number 5, the best TV show you've binged lately.

Lindsay Mason [00:34:55]: My new favorite comfort show is Abbott Elementary. I see that being one that I'm gonna turn back to a lot, similar to how I turn back to The Office or Parks and Rec. So Abbott Elementary.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:05]: Number 6, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

Lindsay Mason [00:35:09]: Because I'm a 1st gen student, I carry a lot of financial responsibility in my family. And so I listen to financial podcasts. 2 of them that I listen to are choose FI and all the hacks.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:18]: Alright. And finally, number 7. Any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional?

Lindsay Mason [00:35:23]: The people that I did not mention earlier, folks that were really influential in my career as an undergrad include Dilsey Perez and Jenny Ruiz. When I was a grad student, I had a lot of great mentorship from Bobby Kuntzmann and Pamela Norris. I also think one of the best decisions I ever made in my life is marrying my husband, Jason Martin. He's an excellent partner.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:41]: Lindsay, it's been a pleasure to get to know you better today, to learn about your expertise and great work with the community that you're living in and working with. I'm sure there are folks that would like to get connected with you either for your area of specialty or also just getting involved with the knowledge community that you're co leading. If anyone would like connect with you after the show, how can they find you?

Lindsay Mason [00:35:59]: I think the best way would be to email my Colorado State email address. It's [email protected]. And it's lindsay with an a.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:09]: Lindsay, thank you so much for sharing your voice with us today.

Lindsay Mason [00:36:11]: Thanks, Jill.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:17]: This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field brought to you by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to be grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email us at [email protected], or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill l Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a 5 star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It truly does help other student affairs pros find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton. That's me. Produced and audio engineered by Dr.Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

Understanding the Unique Needs of Adult Learners

In this episode of SA Voices From the Field, Dr. Jill Creighton delve into the intricacies of supporting adult learners with Lindsay Taylor, a strategic program manager and NASPA leader. Lindsay shares her extensive experience in aiding adult learners through various academic and co-curricular initiatives, particularly her work with the National Society of Leadership and Success (NSLS) and NASPA's Adult Learners and Students with Children Knowledge Community.

Transition to Online Learning During the Pandemic

Lindsay describes the transformation her organization experienced moving from a hybrid model to a fully online one. Initiating this shift just before the pandemic, her team had to quickly adapt to the exclusively online format, relying on trial and error to determine the best technological solutions. Initially experimenting with Google discussions, they ultimately settled on the GroupMe app based on positive student feedback and participation rates. This application allowed for ease of use, catering to those less tech-savvy by enabling text message integration. This adaptability and student-centric approach played a significant role in maintaining engagement and continuing student success during challenging times.

Strategies for Engaging and Supporting Adult Learners

Recognizing that adult learners often juggle multiple responsibilities, Lindsay highlights several strategies her team implements:

• Accessible Orientation Materials:
  • Crafting easily accessible orientation videos.
  • Providing clear guidelines on software usage.
  • Offering support documents and checklists to ease the transition into virtual learning environments.
• Inclusive Support Systems:
  • Including parents in the educational process fosters a family homework dynamic.
  • Encouraging family involvement can positively impact degree completion and commencement rates among adult learners.
• Community Creation:
  • Developing online hubs for students to connect and share resources.
  • Encouraging direct student input through annual engagement surveys to tailor activities and support structures that best meet their needs.

Overlaps with First-Generation Students

Many strategies developed for adult learners also benefit first-generation students. By creating a readily accessible support system, both groups receive the necessary guidance and resources without feeling alienated. This approach aligns with diversity, equity, and inclusion values, ensuring that all students feel supported and engaged regardless of their background or current situation.

Leveraging Technology for a Sense of Belonging

Lindsay discusses the importance of creating virtual communities where students can network and establish personal connections despite physical distances. The use of platforms like GroupMe for success networking meetings, where students set smart goals and hold each other accountable, exemplifies leveraging technology to foster a sense of belonging. These communities become invaluable for students who might otherwise feel isolated due to their busy schedules or geographical constraints.

Challenges and Solutions in Success Networking Meetings

A significant hurdle in leadership programs is the success networking meeting. Students must engage in group collaboration, which proves challenging for those juggling multiple responsibilities. By creating flexible, accessible options through technology, Lindsay and her team effectively support students who might fear overcommitment. This tailored approach ensures students can complete their responsibilities without foregoing critical networking opportunities.

Future Directions in Student Affairs

Looking forward, Lindsay advocates for continuous assessment and innovative practices in student affairs. Emphasizing technology and community-building, she underlines the importance of evolving to meet students' changing needs. Lindsay also encourages involving students in decision-making processes, ensuring their voices directly influence the programs designed to support their success.

In this episode, Lindsay's insights into supporting adult learners and students with children resonate deeply. The innovative strategies her team employs to create accessible and engaging learning environments offer valuable lessons for educational institutions striving to adapt and support their students. As we move forward, the key to success lies in continuing to listen, adapt, and innovate being driven by the diverse needs of our student populations.

You are encouraged to connect with Lindsay Taylor on LinkedIn for further insights and participation in upcoming meetings focused on collaboration within the NASPA Knowledge Community. The future of student affairs undoubtedly involves a blend of technology, empathy, and proactive engagement strategies, paving the way for inclusive and successful educational experiences for all.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:00]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you happen to be. Be. This is season 11, the past, present, and future of student affairs, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton, she, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Today on essay voices, we welcome Lindsay Taylor, sheher. Lindsay is the strategic program manager for her university's chapter of the National Society of Leadership and Success or N SLS. She also serves on the leadership committee for NASPA's Adult Learners and Students with Children Knowledge Community. The N SLS chapter she manages serves more than 2,000 students in the southeast region.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:49]: Lindsay holds an MBA from Quinnipiac University and is currently pursuing her certified student affairs educator certification through the Higher Education Consortium. Using her business expertise, Lindsay has coached more than 670 students, helping them develop their leadership acumen. She continues to motivate and mentor students and student chapter leaders and has established the chapter as a growing financially self sustaining operation. Lindsay attribute NSLS chapter success to ensuring students are heard and creating innovative solutions current and future practice of student affairs around adult learners and non traditional learners. I think that's definitely a fantastic area for us to continue to explore. You're also one of our knowledge community co chairs, and you're working, quite a lot to support, students with children. So a lot to dig into today. But we always love to start our episodes by asking, what is your current role and how did you get to your current seat?

Lindsay Taylor [00:01:49]: I have multiple roles that I hold. So I work in admissions. I am a chapter adviser for one of the honor societies for my university, and we cover the entire southeast region from Maryland and DC all the way down to Florida and over to Tennessee and Kentucky. I am also on their co curricular board. And then, as you mentioned, I'm one of the co chairs for the adult learners and students with children knowledge community.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:12]: So you are wearing a ton of hats right now.

Lindsay Taylor [00:02:14]: Yes. I enjoyed though. I also get to be a programming chair for one of our business resource groups. So I really enjoyed diving into that, and I'm just the person that keeps asking questions, and then I get involved into things.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:27]: I think that is a very traditional NASPA story that we're all just continually saying yes, and then all of a sudden we find ourselves in all of these big things. Well, can you talk to us a little bit about the knowledge community first? I think it's a knowledge community that's fairly new in the NASPA space compared to maybe some of the ones that have been there for the last 20, 30 years. But I think you're serving an incredibly important population. All of our students are important. This particular population, I think, is growing.

Lindsay Taylor [00:02:52]: Definitely. I joined this knowledge community during one of the pandemic NASPA conferences that was online, and I was thrilled by the stuff that was happening. And they were talking about how in Oregon, there was laws being passed and Illinois to collect demographic data on our adult learners so that the schools can better serve them. In Oregon, the one university that was talking about it, they have a whole day to celebrate their adult learners, and I thought that was fantastic. So the knowledge community really focuses on how we can support the adult learners in that space, but also acknowledging that there's people that have pen they're taking care of. And often these learners are people that they're working at least one job, maybe more, while trying to go to school and care for their family. So it's a balancing act for them to manage their time and still be successful in their class.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:40]: How are we defining adult learners in the knowledge community space? I think it's a fun tension because all of our students are adults once they come to the collegiate space. So it's a unique utilization of the term.

Lindsay Taylor [00:03:51]: So we actually had a conversation about this at our last strategy meeting, and we kind of have it to how the student is identifying themselves. Because it came up about even, like, people that are caring for other people outside of children, especially ever since the pandemic. Like, a lot of people got sick, so they may be caring for parents now. And it's how the student is identifying themselves. If they identify themselves as someone that's an adult learner versus that traditional, you've graduated high school, now you're moving on into college, they might have started their academic journey a little bit later.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:23]: And we are also seeing an increase in students with children balancing those priorities of earning their degrees while also raising their families. I was recently at a university in North Central Minnesota. And one of the things that I loved is they've converted one of their student apartment buildings into single parent housing, which I thought was really unique. I had not seen that done at many other institutions. Seeing family housing in a lot of places, but this was really specific to support students who did not have another adult partner helping them raise that family. So I thought that was a great trend. What other types of trends are you seeing that are supporting our students with children?

Lindsay Taylor [00:04:58]: I'm seeing a lot more initiatives to allow them to feel like they're being seen because oftentimes that population of students, they feel like they're the forgotten ones. They may be going to the community colleges a lot when they start off or going right into the online, and they often feel disconnected from the university because they don't have that traditional time to go join student clubs and be in person because they're often at their job or even having take their kids somewhere. And then so I think because the pandemic forces of a whole industry to kind of adapt and change. A lot more schools are offering more online environments, and it gives that flexibility back to the student so that they can still feel like they can balance everything and be pursuing their degree.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:41]: That balance component, I think, applies to all sorts of learners who are working full time jobs or maybe multiple jobs and trying to earn their degrees. You mentioned connection as a place where universities are still trying to figure out how to engage our students that are online learners or maybe students that are only coming to campus for their classes. Maybe they don't want to join a club or org, or maybe they do, but they simply do not have capacity. So what are some of the practices we're seeing to build those connections given that our traditional methods are probably not going to work?

Lindsay Taylor [00:06:12]: I think having more of an online community home. So, like, the honor society that we run, we have over 2,000 students in our chapter, and majority of them are adult learners. We do an engagement survey every year, and we say, okay. What is working for you and what is not working for you? Because we want you who knows the student better than they know themselves? So we wanna hear from them on what can we do as a chapter to better serve you through your leadership program so that you're able to finish that step. Because the one step that just always holds a lot of students is what's called a success networking team meeting, which is the one step that they can't do solo. It's the one step where they have to be in a group and collaborating with people and talking with other people. And when you have people that are 3rd shift and other different, like, jobs, they have 2 of them that they have to balance. They're like, I don't have time, and they just back away.

Lindsay Taylor [00:07:04]: And so I think by having more of those trends of asking the students what they need, there's platforms out there, like, Unified that I know other schools have integrated into their platform that brings what's going on to the university all to their student portal so that these students can see what's going on, see what's trending at their university, see what's out there for them, and it making it more accessible.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:26]: You mentioned a success networking meeting. Can you talk a little bit more about that?

Lindsay Taylor [00:07:30]: Yeah. It's an opportunity for the students to establish a smart goal. So it requires a my half doing a lot of, like, success coaching and say, okay. Well, that's a great goal, but how do we take that from a goal to a smart goal? When do you want to achieve this? What are the steps you're gonna take to reach this goal? And really kind of guiding the students through that when they're submitting their reports, but it's an opportunity for them to connect in with other individuals in the honor society and have that accountability aspect to that because their other fellow members are encouraging them. And it's always great to see that because one of the things that we've done for our chapters will have the on live events, but then we also put everybody into a group me. So we're utilizing technology to bring it to our adult learners and those that have children and people that are caring for others so that they're able to still do their success networking team meetings in that group setting, but it's just at their fingertips.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:08:23]: And you're doing that in an online context, which I think is quite innovative. A lot of institutions would love to be pushing that direction. So how did you get your institution to move from this idea that we needed to have this space? It was probably in person. Pandemic happened. That pushed a lot of us online. But what made it stick and create infrastructure in the online space?

Lindsay Taylor [00:08:43]: So our chapter actually formed the fall of 2019. So we were a hybrid chapter where we had our main location in Tennessee, and then we also are doing more hybrid style for those in North Carolina. During the pandemic, we expanded out to where we're at now where we covered the entire southeast region. So we were doing that while having to adapt to going strictly online, and we went through a lot of, like, different iterations because we were like, okay. What if we use the Google discussions? Because you can create a whole discussion board in Google to see, like, how would this work for the students to be able to navigate this. But when we saw that some people were having trouble technology wise, like, not everybody's gonna be technologically savvy, and so we then moved it to GroupMe to try that for the students. And it was kind of a trial and error of, okay, what is gonna work for this chapter? And as the chapter advisor and it also gives a lot of flexibility in running chapters. They're like, you have these set guidelines that you have to follow.

Lindsay Taylor [00:09:40]: But as far as if you wanna modify certain things for your chapter to best work for it, you can. And I appreciate that because that's what's allowed for us to really, can. And I appreciate that because that's what's allowed for us to really optimize the technology and find something that was gonna be simpler. Something that people can literally just use their phones because with GroupMe, it'll send it as a text message to them, or they can be in the GroupMe app. And so it made it something that they're familiar with, and then that's kind of what allowed for a lot more people. And I explained to them, like, well, all you have to do is this. They're like, it's that easy? Yes. We've literally simplified it to make it as easy for you as possible.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:14]: Let's talk about the tech a minute because I think the tech is always pushing the field forward into the future. I think a lot of institutions are currently making the rounds through Discord and Slack and GroupMe and whatever other platform we're using to create groups with students. I know this was Facebook Groups back in the day, and now we've kind of merged into other spaces. How did your team decide that GroupMe was going to be the way to meet students where they're at?

Lindsay Taylor [00:10:41]: So we started integrating that around 2021 or 2022, and we had, like, our first kind of cohort of students. And then through the engagement survey, we said, okay. Did you guys like this? Which one are you using more? Did you, like, attend the live events, or did you find the group me was easy to use? And then based on that's the group of students' feedback, we determined that the group meet what's gonna be that best option for everybody because of the positive feedback that we got back from the students. So that's why we continue to use that.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:13]: What other strategies are you using that you're finding quite effective in engaging your adult learners?

Lindsay Taylor [00:11:18]: I would say bringing it to their forefront of where they can find the information. The one thing I found is, like, they just don't have time to go digging through stuff. They need it right front and center to them where it's easily accessible. They can find it. So this year, we are actually creating a new member orientation video separate from the orientation that kinda guides them through their leadership programs. So we're like, hey. We're your chapter adviser, and this is your student president. We're gonna kinda guide you through your entire NSLs portal so that as we're having our members join, we can send that out and we've created, like, little syllabus documents to say, here's the software that you should be using.

Lindsay Taylor [00:11:57]: Like, make sure you're using the NSL's mobile app. Make sure you have the GroupMe app, and then listing out everything for them. So that there's no question about what's going on, that everything is like, hey. Here's a document. You can print this off. We created, like, an induction steps checklist for them. So with their s and t's, if they attend the live event but they forget to submit the report, they can put on the paper, oh, I attended it this day. And then as that reminder, it says, and I submitted my report on x y z date.

Lindsay Taylor [00:12:24]: So it gives them that way that if they're, you know, short on time, they can go back to their document and then go, oh, I can add the date for this and then get that submitted.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:12:33]: I'm hearing a lot of overlap in success for 1st generation students and what you're finding is successful for the adult learning communities that you're serving. How many of your students are also in that 1st gen space?

Lindsay Taylor [00:12:46]: I haven't asked that question, but I think that would be a really good question to ask. A lot of the students, when we ask what their age range is, the majority of our students are usually 40 and over, but that doesn't mean that they wouldn't also be a 1st gen student. I think having worked on the admission side with a lot of the first gen students, I do think there is that challenge when they don't know what to expect and being able to be that guiding force sort of speak that can say, okay. And this is what you can expect and, like, asking, do you under like, stay in all of this? And then making sure that their support system also understands Because sometimes people have questions, what are you doing? And so I think it's having information that's easily accessible to both the 1st gen and the adult learners does help because sometimes they need that reference point to come back to.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:36]: And what we know, right, is that if it's good for a 1st gen student, it's gonna be good for all students. And that's really about communication, dispelling the ivory tower, and the language that we use that could be to insider, to the field, or to the institution, redefining terms, that kind of thing. You just made a really important point, which is also looping in student support systems to help them through the process. When you're working with adult learners, who are you looping in generally from that support systems perspective?

Lindsay Taylor [00:14:05]: So a lot of the students that I work with through admissions, they often have children. So I'll always crack the joke and be like, oh, you're gonna have a homework table now. Like, everybody sits down, they do their homework together. And it makes them laugh, but I think it also, like, creates that visual for them to see themselves being successful in their class, to see themselves being able to demonstrate, like, hey, this is something I'm able to accomplish so that they feel like they're encouraging their kids to also do well in their classes.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:32]: And when you're seeing families do this together, what are we seeing on the finishing side, on the commencement and on the degree completion?

Lindsay Taylor [00:14:40]: I love when I get to see the students make it through the program, but because I'm also the chapter adviser for the honor study, I get to see them again when they then become a part of the honor society, and it's often a great experience because they're like, hey. It's you. And it's so great to see that in order for them to be able to join that, they do have to meet GBA requirements. They have to be progressing through their program. So it's kind of like when you're going through a marathon and someone hands you your water and your cookie to keep going. It's like, hey. You made it this far. Look at what you're able to accomplish.

Lindsay Taylor [00:15:13]: And being able to just then watch them set goals of, I wanna finish my degree by x y z date, and then some of them are towards the end of their program. So then their 3rd and final s and t meeting that they submit for their, hey, I'm only 2 classes away from my program now. And being able to see the success that they're having is just so cool to see, like, their whole journey and be a part of that.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:35]: We've talked a bit about success. I wanna talk a little bit about the inverse in terms of what are you seeing with your adult learner communities that might be leading to a stop out or a drop out?

Lindsay Taylor [00:15:44]: I think the time management is one of the most common ones that I hear from a lot of students that come back is that life just got busy. And, I'm the first one to say life just happens a lot to adult learners. I mean, they could have cars breaking down or have something happen with their job. They get laid off or anything can happen. And it kinda goes back to, like, Maslow's hierarchy of needs. They have to make sure that their basic needs are being met before they can even think about their education because they often have other people that are relying on them or they have to self rely, and there's no one else that they can depend on to help them through those times. And I think those are some of the biggest causes as to why students, you know, shift out is funding life happening to mom and not really having any other support to kind of help guide them through those tough situations.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:16:33]: Do you have any advice for other student affairs professionals who are also supporting students in these situations?

Lindsay Taylor [00:16:38]: I have found that sometimes if you can just make them realize that you're there for them, even if you're just listening and showing that empathy. If you're aware of, like, resources that are in, like, the state, being able to direct them to resources that can help. I found that that really helps because it goes beyond them thinking of you as just the man trying to get their money kind of thing to them feeling like you're actually there for them and there to support them and that you genuinely care about their success.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:10]: Are there any other activities happening in the KC right now that you want NASPA listeners to know about?

Lindsay Taylor [00:17:15]: Well, we do have upcoming meetings. We usually do them the 1st Friday of every month. So I would love for more people to come to our meetings. We're always brainstorming how we can collaborate with other Casey's as well because there is a lot of intersectionality between what we do and some of the other knowledge communities as well.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:33]: And how can folks find you if they'd like to join?

Lindsay Taylor [00:17:35]: They can find me on my LinkedIn. If they search for Lindsay Taylor, they'll be able to find me.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:40]: Well, Lindsay, we are in our theme of the past, present, and future of student affairs. And this season, kind of like our season on Becoming, we have a set of questions that we're gonna be asking every guest that are specific to the past, present, and future of student affairs. So I'm gonna start with our past question, which is what's one component of the history of the student affairs profession that you think that we should continue to carry forward?

Lindsay Taylor [00:18:05]: I definitely think assessment and evaluation is something that we really should carry forward. I think it's what's led to different student development theories, but it's also we live in a society where our information is constantly being collected. So why wouldn't it be any different for a university to go beyond just the persistent measure analytics and being able to see, okay, how are our student organizations impacting persistence? Because that's part of why we do our engagement survey is to really analyze what is working and what is not, and being able to get that information from the students can be really valuable.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:41]: And moving into the present, what's happening in the field right now that's going well for the profession?

Lindsay Taylor [00:18:46]: I think the focus on diversity, equity, and inclusion in higher end, you know, it's becoming challenging. It's something that is going well for, student affairs because it allows for students to benefit from having diverse perspectives. Especially when you look at adult learners, these are individuals that are already in the workforce. They are already being different cultures and being involved in that. I think having that ability to have DNI a part of curriculum actually allows for them to not just learn information, but then be able take that back and implement it into their lives.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:19:18]: Looking forward into the future, in an ideal world, what does the field need to do to thrive towards our future?

Lindsay Taylor [00:19:24]: I think really taking advantage of technology. Technology can be a great way to connect people, to fill in the gaps for adult learners, 1st gen, whoever the student identifies as. It helps to create communities for students to find their sense of belonging in the institution, but do it on a time frame that really works best for them.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:19:48]: I wholeheartedly agree with you on the technology piece. I'm currently, teaching as an adjunct in a higher ed master's course, and I'm teaching a tech module. And our first lesson is gonna be all about AI and how higher ed and student affairs can harness AI for good instead of for the scary stuff. I think a lot of times because it's a bit unknown, a lot of us are a little bit like, oh. And it particularly for my colleagues in student conduct and seeing the rise of AI in what we would also call AI or academic integrity, artificial intelligence and academic integrity. It's getting to be a bit of a dicey space. So a lot for us to figure out. Lindsay, is there anything else that you'd like to share about the adult learner community or the National Honor Society that you're advising?

Lindsay Taylor [00:20:31]: If I could say one thing, I wouldn't say don't be afraid of innovation. And it's the one thing that I constantly am doing is how can we make this better? What can we do that improves this? Especially, if you're engaging with your students and getting that feedback from them, bring it back to the students. Our eboard, we analyze that data from the engagement survey, and we have about 13 or so 10 to 13 student leaders on our eboard. And I will bring it back to them and say, okay. This is the feedback that you're getting from your members. What can we do? What are some solutions that you're thinking about? And then I'll even suggest things to them and say, what do you think about this? How does this look? So it allows for them to engage in things that impact others like themselves.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:15]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:21]: Thanks, Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world, and there's a lot going on as we start a brand new year. And, 1st and foremost, the 2025 Excellence Awards are now open. And any of you that wish to be able to apply for one of the Excellence Awards, and I highly encourage you to do just that, to be able to recognize the excellence awards, recognize amazing programs at our different institutions, to be able to showcase the great things that are happening and the people that are making those things happen. There's a ton of different categories and a lot of different areas that will help you to be able to bring forth these amazing services, these amazing things that are contributing to the success of our students. I highly encourage you to check them out. You can apply for an excellence award until October 9, 2024. So submit a nomination today.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:17]: The 6th Annual European Conference for Student Affairs and Services is coming up November 20th through 22nd in Saint Julien's, Malta. This conference provides a platform for student affairs professionals, academics, researchers, and policymakers to discuss innovative programs, practices, models, and trends in student affairs. This year's conference is called Universities of the Future, Empowering Student Affairs Professionals and Fostering Student Flourishing. The regular registration for this conference is going to be closing on September 17th. So you still have a little bit of time left, and I highly encourage you to take a look at it. You can find out more on the NASPA website. Just recently, the Journal of First Generation Stupid Success, volume 4 issue 2 came out. And if you have never checked out this amazing journal, this is another great resource that is provided to you as a member of NASPA, and I highly encourage you to check it out.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:10]: There's a number of great articles in this journal, including the role of family cultural capital to predicting study abroad participation in 1st generation US undergraduates. Also revisiting college access and equity, perspectives of continuing generation college students on their 1st generation peers. These are just 2 of a number of different articles in the journal itself. It's always a fascinating read, and you can find this journal and all of the journals that you have access to as a member of NASPA. On the NASPA website, when you go to the NASPA when you go to naspa.org, just go under publications, and you can find all of the journals there. Finally, I talked about the excellence awards, but there are a number of other awards that are also available to you as a NASPA member. So if you want to honor a rising mid level professional or the president of your institution or a faculty member for what they're doing in the field, consider community. Awards through most of the knowledge communities.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:18]: And all of these different awards are available for individuals to be able to be considered for. And you can nominate someone until October 9th. It is really important that we recognize best practices, people and more to be able to allow for others to learn from their success. Please take a moment to nominate someone for one of these awards and help the profession to be able to recognize the great work of people and programs that are truly working to create opportunities for success for our students and our campuses. Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with the knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:51]: I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association, and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:21]: Chris, thank you so much for getting us kicked off with NASPA World. It's always great to learn what's going on in and around NASPA. And, Lindsay, we have now reached our lightning round. I have Question number 1. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

Lindsay Taylor [00:26:36]: Maybe, like, ready to rock or something. Like, let's get it going.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:46]: Number 2, when you were 5 years old, what did you want to be when you grew up?

Lindsay Taylor [00:26:50]: I don't remember when I was 5, but I know I spent a lot of time really just wanting to help others. So it's great that I get to kinda do that and then differently than I thought.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:58]: Number 3, Who's your most influential professional mentor?

Lindsay Taylor [00:27:01]: So it's not, like, mine directly, but my husband worked at a community college before. And one of his managers for the fitness center, she said, never be afraid to ask the question because the worst someone can say is no. And I live that every

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:16]: Number 4, your essential student affairs read.

Lindsay Taylor [00:27:18]: Well, right now, I'm studying for the certified student affairs educator. That was definitely the handbook.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:24]: Number 5, the best TV show that you've binged lately?

Lindsay Taylor [00:27:27]: Admittedly, because I am a nineties person, I just finished rewatching all of Girl Meets World because I love Boy Meets World, and I love the Feeny call.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:37]: I've been listening to a ton of Pod Meets World.

Lindsay Taylor [00:27:40]: I love that too. They're great. I love them.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:43]: Number 6, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

Lindsay Taylor [00:27:47]: Pod Meets World.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:49]: And finally, number 7, any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional?

Lindsay Taylor [00:27:54]: I would like to shout out our co chair president for the adult learners, students, and children, Casey. Kelly, she's doing a fantastic job at it, and she does a great job in managing all of us co chairs, and I'm excited for what the future is gonna bring with her leadership.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:08]: Lindsay, it's been a pleasure to speak with you today. I know I've learned a lot from you, and I know our listeners will as well. I know you mentioned your LinkedIn earlier, but if anyone would like to reach you after the show, what's the best way to find you?

Lindsay Taylor [00:28:19]: Definitely more on my LinkedIn because I'm on there a lot because I also manage our KC LinkedIn, and then I also manage the LinkedIn group for the Honor Society. So I'm always on there.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:30]: And you can find Lindsay's spelling in the show notes. Lindsay is with an a y, so please make sure you connect with her. Lindsay, thank you so much for sharing your voice with us today.

Lindsay Taylor [00:28:40]: Thank you for having me.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:46]: This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field brought to you by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to be grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email us at [email protected], or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill l Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a 5 star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It truly does help other student affairs pros find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and by doctor Jill Creighton.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:23]: That's me. Produced and audio engineered by doctor Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

Welcome to another enriching season of the Student Affairs Voices from the Field podcast! As we kick off Season 11, hosts Dr. Jill Creighton and Dr. Christopher Lewis dive deep into the past, present, and future of student affairs, offering a robust discussion designed to resonate with everyone from seasoned experts to fresh-faced professionals stepping into the field for the first time. This season, aptly timed as we approach fall 2024, promises to unravel layers of insight by unpacking critical themes and interviewing diverse voices within higher education.

A Summer to Reflect

Dr. Jill Creighton opens by setting the stage for what promises to be an impactful season. "This break between season 10 and season 11 has gone by at a blink," notes Dr. Christopher Lewis, encapsulating the whirlwind that is summer in academia. The warm months are a brief yet essential time for rest, reflection, and preparation — particularly relevant for professionals in student affairs who anticipate the fall with a mixture of excitement and, often, trepidation. As campuses spring back to life, it's a period of rejuvenation and readiness, laying the groundwork for the academic adventures to follow.

Election Year Dynamics

As Dr. Creighton mentions, "Anytime we have an election year in the US, it changes the work that we do." The intersection of politics and education makes for a tumultuous landscape. Political outcomes affect campus climates, funding, and overall student wellbeing. It impacts not just the professionals within student affairs but also the students they serve. Dr. Lewis reflects on this, acknowledging the complexity that comes with trying to create a smooth transition for new and returning students amid political unrest.

The 2024 election year, therefore, is expected to bring unique challenges and opportunities. How campuses handle political discourse and maintain inclusivity will be key areas of focus. Whether it involves navigating conversations about policy impacts or ensuring that marginalized voices are heard, student affairs professionals have a pivotal role in steering the educational experience during such crucial times.

Exploring the Past, Present, and Future

For Seasons 11 and 12, the podcast is taking a thematic approach, concentrating on the past, present, and future of student affairs. This strategic focus builds upon the success of previous seasons that examined transitions in the industry. By honing in on this comprehensive tripartite theme, the podcast aims to paint a holistic picture of where student affairs has been, where it stands today, and where it's headed.

Each guest will be challenged to answer three fundamental questions about the past, present, and future of student affairs. These discussions will not only highlight individual professional areas of expertise but will also address broader functional areas and trends. Expect rich dialogue on how historical contexts have shaped current practices and how emerging trends are set to redefine the student affairs landscape.

Diverse Voices Across Career Stages

One of the notable features of this season is its commitment to inclusivity in terms of career stages. As Dr. Creighton points out, the goal is to engage voices from all walks of professional life. Whether you're a retiree offering seasoned wisdom, a first-year professional with fresh insights, a grad student bringing academic rigor, or a mid-level professional balancing day-to-day operations, your story is valuable.

Listeners are encouraged to contribute by recommending others or volunteering themselves to be part of this dynamic discourse. The podcast team is eager to feature a mosaic of perspectives, illustrating the diverse tapestry of experiences that comprise student affairs today.

As we embark on this new season, the *Student Affairs Voices from the Field* podcast stands as a beacon for thoughtful conversation and professional development. From examining the impact of political climates on campuses to exploring the evolution of student affairs, this season sets the stage for an exciting journey through the myriad aspects of higher education. We invite you to listen, engage, and reflect as we unravel the past, present, and future of student affairs together.

For those interested in contributing to the season, send your recommendations to [email protected]. Whether you're a novice or a veteran in the field, your voice matters and can profoundly impact the broader student affairs community.

Catch the latest episodes on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen, and don't forget to leave a review to help others discover this invaluable resource. Here's to another season of learning and growing together!

TRANSCRIPTION

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:00]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you happen to be. Be. This is season 11, the past, present, and future of student affairs, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton, she, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Chris, we've hit fall 2024.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:29]: It's amazing. This break between season 10 and season 11 has gone by at a blink, and it has been a really quick summer. I'm glad that we're hitting the fall and we're really getting ready, not only for a new season, but a new fall with new students and just really excited about it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:48]: I'm starting to see move in pictures for our profession. We're all headed for our next adventure around the academic calendar. And I think student affairs as a profession might be in for a little bit of a ride this fall. I think anytime we have an election year in the US, it changes the work that we do. So I'm definitely thinking about all of our colleagues out there.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:15]: Definitely hear you in that regard. I feel for the people that are not only parents that are moving their kids in for the first time or second time or third time, but for all of us as professionals that are working to make that smooth and make it a seamless transition for all of our students. But you're right. It can definitely be a very tumultuous few months as we go through this election and whatever the outcome is going to be and how that politically is going to impact how our campuses run, how it impacts our students, and more.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:48]: With all of those impacts, as we thought about what we wanted to look at for what is now season 11, if you can believe it, of essay voices from the field. We really began reflecting on how our last seasons of 9 and 10 on transitions. It felt pretty successful for us in looking at a whole season arc on one theme. Gave us a way to focus in on what was going on. And so we're gonna try it again for seasons 11 and 12. We're gonna be looking at the past, present, and future of student affairs. And I really can't think of a better time to be doing that than right now. And so this year, kind of going back to our season on becoming, we're gonna be asking each of our guests 3 questions. 1 about the past of student affairs, one about the present, and one about the future. So in addition to learning about their professional areas of expertise, their functional areas, the work that they're doing on their campuses, and the messages they have for all of us. I really look forward to hearing their thoughts on that topic.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:45]: You know, I'm really looking forward to it as well. And I think there's going to be a wide array of individuals that have some really interesting things to say. We have some names that we're already looking at. We're excited about the people that are going to be joining us over the next year, and all this are out there. If there are people that you feel that really should be a part of this season that have compelling stories or have something that that you feel that could really add to the discourse about the past, present, and future of our profession, we'd love to hear from you. Send us an email at [email protected]. And we would love to be able to get your names that you're submitting in, whether it's you, whether it's someone else. Let us know.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:32]: And when we talk about past, present, and future voices, we're also looking at where you are in the tenure in your career. If you're retired, we wanna hear from you. If you are in your very first year, we wanna hear from you. If you're a grad student, we especially wanna hear from you. And if you're a mid level professional making it work day in and day out, we wanna hear from you. So please reach out. We'd love to feature your voice on the show for season 112 on the past, present, and future of student affairs. See you very soon.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:05]: This has been an episode of SA voices from the field brought to you by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to be grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email us at [email protected], or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L. Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a 5 star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It truly does help other student affairs pros find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:40]: This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton. That's me. Produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

In the latest episode of "Student Affairs Voices from the Field," hosts Dr. Jill Creighton and Dr. Christopher Lewis bring Season 10 to a close with transformative updates and forward-looking announcements. Dr. Creighton opens the episode by introducing the podcast's continuing focus on transitions within student affairs, a nod to the overarching theme from Season 9. However, the hosts regret to inform listeners that the promised grand finale has been postponed. In its place, listeners are treated to the exciting news of upcoming bonus episodes featuring notable guests.

One of the key highlights is the announcement of Dr. Amelia Parnell as the incoming president of NASPA. Dr. Lewis shares his enthusiasm about Dr. Parnell's upcoming appearance on the podcast, where she will discuss the future direction of the association under her leadership. Dr. Creighton encourages prospective candidates to check out the newly posted Vice President for Policy and Research position at NASPA, emphasizing the mentorship opportunities available.

As the episode wraps up, Dr. Creighton expresses heartfelt gratitude to listeners for their engagement and support. She encourages them to reach out with feedback and suggestions for future episodes, and invites them to spread the word about the show. The hosts sign off, promising insightful discussions and inspirational stories in the bonus episodes to come.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:01]: Welcome to student affairs voices from the field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. This is season 10, continuing our season 9 theme of On Transitions in Student Affairs. This podcast is brought to you by NASPA, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton, she, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:20]:

Hey, Chris.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:24]: Hey, Jill.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:24]: Well, our finale plans have hit a bit of a transition, haven't they?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:30]: Yeah. I guess, we are finishing off our season of transitions with a transition as we move into a further transition of a new season.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:38]: So with that in mind, we know that we promised you a finale worth waiting for. And I think, first of all, we're very sorry we're not gonna be able to deliver. So we don't wanna lead you astray with our promises for a big finale, but we do wanna promise you a couple of bonus episodes for the summer, including a very special guest. Chris, do you wanna tell us who's coming on?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:57]: You know, we're really excited to have doctor Amelia Parnell joining us this summer as she transitions into the president of NASPA role. And we've already reached out, talked to her. We're getting a time with her very soon to be able to record an episode to talk about where we're at as an association, but where we're going in the future under her leadership.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:19]: And with that in mind, a huge congratulations to Emilia. We could not be more thrilled to be led by you going forward. You are going to do an amazing job, and I just am so thrilled to be seeing you at the helm of NASPA. With that in mind too, we also see Amelia's former position is now posted. So if you are interested in becoming the vice president for policy and research at NASPA, go check out NASPA's career page. You can see the details of the job description, the posting, and all of the relevant information. We know that whomever comes into that role has some huge shoes to fill, but we also know they're going to have amazing mentorship. This has been an episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field, a podcast brought to you by NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:01]: This show continues to be possible because you choose to listen to us. We are so grateful for your subscriptions and your downloads and your engagement with the content. If you'd like to reach the show, please email us atsa voices at naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L. Creighton. We always welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and give us a 5 star rating on Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening now. It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps raise the show's profile within the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:40]: That's me. Produced and audio engineered by doctor Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of