The latest episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field is not only a must-listen for higher education professionals but a rich resource for anyone seeking insight into the dynamic landscape of student affairs. Dr. Jill Creighton hosts a thoughtful conversation with Dr. Amelia Parnell, the new president and CEO of NASPA, as she reflects on her journey, the evolving challenges facing the profession, and her vision for the organization and the field.

Leadership Through Uncertainty

One of the strongest themes of the episode is leadership amidst change and uncertainty. Dr. Parnell candidly discusses stepping into her presidential role during a significant period of transition—mirroring the larger flux happening across higher education. She emphasizes the importance of staying calm, understanding the complexities of policy shifts, and making informed decisions, especially as national and state regulations impact campuses at breakneck speed.

The Power of Community

Dr. Parnell’s gratitude for the NASPA community—its staff, members, and peer associations—shines through. Her message is clear: while the challenges ahead are real and substantial, the strength of student affairs lies in its collaborative spirit and supportive networks. She notes that community isn’t just a buzzword. Whether through regional conferences, association partnerships, or simply reaching out to colleagues, being “in it together” makes turbulent times more bearable and productive.

Value and Impact of Student Affairs

A recurring point throughout the episode is the critical need to showcase the impact of student affairs, not just in crisis management or engagement, but as facilitators of student learning and success. Dr. Parnell calls for professionals to embrace data, tell their stories, and make a compelling case for the essential role they play across campuses nationwide. She encourages the field to move beyond simply surviving and towards thriving, both individually and institutionally.

Looking Ahead

Perhaps most inspiring, Dr. Parnell expresses optimism for the future. She predicts ongoing difficulty but also emphasizes resilience, adaptability, and the vibrancy of the student affairs profession. Her practical advice—utilize new NASPA resources, invest in community, focus on continuous learning, and center the student experience—resonates deeply.

Tune In for Insight and Inspiration

If you’re searching for honest dialogue and encouragement amidst challenging times, this episode is essential listening. Dr. Parnell’s warmth, expertise, and hopefulness will leave you feeling empowered and connected—ready to support your campus and each other as the field forges ahead.

Listen to the full conversation and join the ongoing journey with the NASPA community. Your work and your voice matter—now more than ever.

 

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:01]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed professionals wherever you happen to be. This is season 12, continuing our journey through the past, present, and future of student affairs. I'm doctor Jill Creighton, sheherhers, your essay voices from the field host. Today on essay voices, I'm so pleased to bring you a conversation with doctor Amelia Parnell, our first on the podcast with her in her new role as president of NASPA. We've had doctor Parnell on before in her prior role at NASPA as the VP for research and policy, and I really loved getting to hear her vision for the organization, where we're going as an association. And if you weren't able to attend the annual conference, she also follows up on some of her remarks and her keynote speech. So this is not one to miss.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:53]: We're so glad that Amelia was able to make the time to come on the show. A little bit more about Amelia. Doctor Parnell is an accomplished higher ed leader and executive and an internationally recognized thought leader regarding current issues and emerging trends in the field. She's a passionate advocate for higher education as a tool for personal advancement and impact, and she seeks opportunities to partner with organizations and individuals who share her sincere commitment to centering students' needs. In her prior role as VP for research and policy at NASPA, she led many of the association's scholarly and advocacy focused activities and fostered partnerships with college administrators, researchers, grantmakers, and other higher ed professionals. As a frequent keynote speaker at national and regional conferences, Amelia presents on topics related to higher ed, student affairs, college affordability, student learning outcomes, and institutions' use of data and analytics. She's been quoted in The Wall Street Journal, The Chronicle of Higher Education, Inside Higher Ed, and the PBS NewsHour. Amelia recently completed four years of service on the board of directors for EDUCAUSE, where she was the chair of the finance and investment committee and the audit committee.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:55]: She's also the past chair of the Higher Education Equity Network or HEEN, a collective impact network representing more than 25 organizations at the forefront of addressing a racial equity in higher ed. Amelia enjoys opportunities to teach, and she's energized by making complex concepts easy to understand. She's had enriching engagements with students and peers as an adjunct instructor and lecturer, and she's the author of the book, You Are a Data Person, which she wrote to encourage all higher education professionals to discover and embrace their unique data identity. Amelia holds her PhD in higher education from Florida State University and master's and bachelor's degrees in business administration from Florida A and M University. Amelia, welcome back to SA Voices.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:02:35]: Thank you very much for having me.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:36]: And we're recording just about two weeks post annual conference. It was lovely to see you in person and living in your element and leading a marching band from opening to Mardi Gras World and welcoming all of us to New Orleans. So we're thrilled to introduce you as NASPA president and CEO for the first time. In the past, we've had you on as VP of policy and research. So as we typically do, we love to open our show by asking you, how did you get to your current seat?

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:03:03]: Well, I should tell you that I got a similar question yesterday in an interview with someone who asked if I'd always knew I wanted to work in associations. And I said, when I was in my, of course, undergrad program, I didn't even know about higher ed associations or higher education as a major. And then when I was doing my doctoral work, I knew about associations, but didn't necessarily see myself there. So I can say it's been a journey, but every step along the way has been part of the preparation. So first I'd say getting to this literal seat is involved a lot of association experience. So, you mentioned it before this role for nine years, I was that VP of research and policy. And then before that, I worked for a few years at another association, the Association for Institutional Research. So, those who know me know that I enjoy data conversations and that kind of helped with that.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:03:44]: And then prior to that, I spent seven years in state policy in Florida in an office that really felt a lot like the IR office or institutional research office for the legislature. So a lot of association industry experience, and then a lot of other things that fill in the spaces. So served on some other association boards, did some teaching, some writing, some research, public speaking, advisory board service, and all that together in addition to early, early days working on a campus. So I'd like to think that this opportunity now was several, several years in the making.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:13]: And just to plug some of your work, if you're a data nerd, Amelia has a great book out on data, so you should check that one out if you're a data and assessment person.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:04:21]: I think we all are.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:22]: Definitely. And I think more so now in the profession than we were, you know, five, ten years ago. Even the data has begun to speak differently than it has before. Mhmm. But you've been in the NASPA presidency just under a year now. So how is it going?

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:04:35]: It's going very well. Now I can say, like many others in higher education, has not all been easy. But I would definitely say it's been more bearable when you're in a welcoming community, and I'm glad to have that. So specifically, the membership has been really welcoming. I had an opportunity to go to almost all the regional meetings, over the past year. This one, the Western Regional, but I'll see them at their meeting this year. The membership in general has been very kind and welcoming. Get a lot of emails.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:04:59]: The challenge I have is to respond to all of them in a timely way. The board has been very supportive and enjoyed that partnership and looking to build on that. NASPA staff are great. This feels like a commercial, but truly, it it really has been nice. The my neighbor association, some of those CEOs and presidents have immediately reached out. So I feel a sense of community that I was already there, but just feels different in this new role. So it's going really, really well.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:19]: I know you're gonna love Western Regional. It's one of my favorite conferences as a former region fiver. So I'll give a shout out to Josie Alquist and Kim Halapa who are the chairs of NASPA Western Regional this year. You're gonna have a great time.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:05:30]: Okay. Okay.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:31]: But as we look at kind of you incoming to the presidency, I kind of think of doctor Lauria White's journey as well. She started her presidency, like, five seconds before COVID hit the world. You started your presidency right amidst a major presidential transition and policy transition. And coming from your policy background, I'm sure that has been maybe some unexpected turns, in your first year. So can you talk about kind of your philosophy behind navigating all

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:05:57]: of it? Oh, absolutely. I don't wanna downplay it and say, oh, I was ready for this. No big deal. That type of thing. But I can say some of my earlier experiences in my career have certainly helped me for this moment. And the first I'll say is that it's never a single person's responsibility. Although being in a role like president, you are asked to make a lot of decisions and that might be a partnership with the border. It might be this is in your scope of influence.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:06:18]: What are we gonna do? That type of, I'd say, heightened responsibility, I'm not necessarily new to it. I've been able to be a part of, like I said, the NASPA executive team for a while. It's a different role, but it did give me some direct exposure to kind of how NASPA should be able to move and navigate in these environments. In terms of the specific policy angle, that's where my state policy experience in Florida. And if anybody watches the news, Florida has been in the news for a while. And so I worked in Florida policy at a time when, just like now, Florida was in the news, and there were a lot of moving discussions that put me right in the middle of making decisions in a difficult time. So nothing prepares you for the moment that you're in because you've never seen it before. But the environment, one that you could probably say is a little bit uncertain, unexpected, a little bit challenging, I've gotten able to be uncomfortable in those situations.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:07:02]: So what I would say I've learned is to not panic. It's hard to do, but it's definitely relevant. Try not to panic. We make better decisions when you have a chance to sit and think. Maybe not in abundance of time to sit and think, but, number one thing for me I'd say is make sure you understand everything possible that you can, that you can absolutely absorb and try not to panic because you can make better decisions when you have a clear head.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:22]: I think that not panic moment is really important in higher ed right now. I've been in the public policy division space for NASPA for, I think, like three terms now. And I was having a conversation with Gaut Sheehan, who's the outgoing policy chair for us. And he and I gave a presentation, like, a couple of years ago called something like why public policy should matter to higher ed pros.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:07:44]: Talk about foreshadowing.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:45]: And I just remember us being like, how do we get people to understand this is important to their work and how much that has shifted over the last couple of years where we're now in a space where policy is moving at us at what can really only be described as a breakneck pace. And so I'm not asking any of us in the field to agree, disagree, or be undecided about what these policy changes are and mean. What I'm really asking us to do is to take a look at how it's affecting our campuses and our students because regardless of how we personally feel about it, it's happening, and it's happening in ways that affect our campuses. So aside from remaining calm, kind of that keep calm and carry on, what advice do you have for campuses who are trying to keep up right now?

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:08:24]: Yeah. Absolutely. And and before I answer that, let me add on to your point about your session with Scott. I've said this many times, kind of in jest, that I feel prepared for this moment because the the nine years I spent leading the research and policy area, those were two areas that when you say, hey, you know, would you like to sit down and talk about some data? Those people will be like, I don't know. That's my favorite topic. Maybe we'll get back to you and and talk another time. And if it's policy, oh, well, you know, I've got a colleague who does our policy stuff. And so this idea that these two big buckets and they're they're really kind of linked research and policy together were areas that we needed to be paying attention to closely anyway.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:08:55]: And this feels like the right time to elevate that. So I appreciate your question. And I would say, I see the thing, keep calm. I don't want to say carry on because I feel like that could be dismissive of what it means to be working in the field. But the calm nature means as you are still going through these difficult times, try not to be too overly overwhelmed. I'd say about what's going on. In terms of specifically what we can do, I think I can think of three things. The one I'd say to anybody, this is a great time to learn as much as possible.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:09:19]: And I know that the news outlets give us news and they give us updates, but there are certainly other opportunities for us to really understand how does a bill become a law? How does the law become a rule? How does the rule turn into policy? What's the difference between the executive order and, act of Congress, things like that. This is the time where if you you're not quite sure, ask somebody, see if you can read up on it. I know we talk about Schoolhouse Rock and the basics. It's okay to go back to the basics because I think in this time now it helps us have deeper conversations about what our options are. Got to understand what's going on. That ultimately will lead to the space of influence, which will be your campus policies or campus decisions. And so it all fits together. I think that's number one.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:09:55]: Learn as much as you can. In terms of supporting students, I think it means consistency. You know, for as much as things are changing all around us and we as professionals see this, students are still coming. They're still coming to class. They're still going home, still making plans, and they're looking to us to still provide some consistency in how we're going to help them navigate their college experience. I know it's hard, but they, I think, could give us a signal of where we could go to support them. And then I'd say the last, I just got to double back down on the idea of informed decision making. We haven't gotten to that question yet, but I feel like to some extent that that pairs well with not panicking, because if we have an abundance of information about what's been working, where our places of improvement should be, this is a good time.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:10:33]: And we're being kind of pushed into those conversations, by not rushing. Maybe moving at a faster pace, but not rushing to every quick decision that gives us a chance to take a fresh look at some information and data that we might already have in partnership across the campus. So that's gonna bring us closer together.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:47]: I will plug that Schoolhouse Rock piece on YouTube because it does hold up. It's the policy process is exactly the same. And one that I also like to include is the more r rated version by Saturday Night Live, which is about executive orders. So go watch that one. It's definitely not child or office friendly, but in your spare time, go check out that one because it's also pretty much accurate. But we are also in a space where all of the federal personnel that campuses may be used to talking to for investigations or there's currently, you know, we know the list of 60 and things like that going on. How might you advise campus professionals who are trying to do their best to comply with federal regulations knowing that their staff or relationships have all changed, how do you recommend people begin to re navigate this new landscape?

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:11:31]: So that's a specific question I could imagine that impacts those who are used to having an ongoing connection to the department, and that would include me. Before this current administration, the previous administration, we would get invited to have a closed conversation here or convening there or some type of email exchange that would say, this is what we're considering. Can you tell us maybe a perspective of student affairs professionals? And to not have that has been a little, little tough because number one, it gives you access into conversations that might be emerging into something later. But also it kind of gives us a chance to prepare in advance. And so to not have that, it does feel acutely more difficult than previous situations. This is a place where I would say associations can actually support with the membership though. So even though I may not have that direct line to as many department professionals as I previously did, a lot of associations do have connections to the Hill. And so NASPA doesn't do direct lobbying, but we do a lot of advocacy work, which connects us to other associations who have that type of capacity.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:12:22]: So I think that's a place where associations can help members understand a little bit of what's going on. Now, naturally, we can't share everything that we've heard, especially if some of it is speculative, but it does help us be a little bit ahead and prepared. So some of the things that we're seeing right now, those conversations, I think we, we got a little bit of a heads up of what might happen. And of course we all are speculating to some degree, but we had a little bit of a head start, maybe a few weeks ahead or maybe a couple of months in other cases. So I think in terms of those individuals who might be doing work where they normally would have to engage, maybe you're doing iPads reporting, or maybe you're doing something that directly connects to one of the departments. I think that's a place where associations can help a little bit. Now we don't have a Rolodex to offer and new people to connect to, but I do think those specific questions, they would be looking to associations to help them unpack a little of those unanswered questions.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:06]: And you kind of mentioned it already, but NASPA has enjoyed really positive relationships with other higher ed associations that are DC based for a good long while now. We even, I believe, shared an office with a couple of them for a while. So knowing all of that and knowing that you all are very connected, it's, I think, important for our members to know that we're not alone, that student affairs professionals aren't there floating out in this world of change without the scaffolding of other professional associations around us. So can you talk a little bit about how NASPA's working with those other associations or how they're weathering the storm with us as we work through this process?

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:13:37]: Sure. There are some natural groupings of associations. So for those listening, I'm not sure if everybody knows, but there are probably at least 50 different associations that touch or connect to higher education in some way. And some of them are larger comprehensive associations like NASPA that covers a suite of departments and units like we have. And then there are some that are specifically focused on one area. So you might have both NASPA, but then you also have ACUOI, which is specifically focused on housing or my previous association AIR. So those associations, we get together from time to time to share what's going on. Now, again, we don't open up our professional diaries and share everything that's going on, but we do talk about the impact of some of these changes that are completely impacting higher education and how it's impacting us specifically within our membership in our particular area of influence.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:14:20]: So that leaves a lot of space for us to compare notes and say, have you considered this or you had considered that? We all have different levels of capacity, even down to the amount of policy and advocacy staff we have. So those who might have a little bit more, they might take up a little bit more of the, the time to give updates. Those of us who have a little bit less, we might spend more time listening, but we can still offer context. So I would say there's a great imperative across the associations from my POMO perspective that we share with each other. Not that we didn't previously, but in a time like this, there's not that type of competition that you might think, well, who can get out first? Who can be the best at this? I think there's an ongoing commitment to say we literally all are experiencing something similar. We're better together by, by having these conversations in a way that helps us see where the opportunities for partnership are at a very limited level conversations. And so it's been nice for as much as a difficult time can be nice. It's been nice to be able to go to those meetings and not have to be concerned about someone trying to have ulterior motives.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:15:13]: I haven't experienced any of that, and I don't think it'll be that way for the foreseeable future.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:17]: I always get a bit of a nerdy kick out of the fact that there's, like, associations for associations.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:15:21]: Yes. There's an association for associations if there's a big one, ASAE.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:25]: But given all of that, I also know that NASPA has come out with some new resources for members to help us look at all of these things, specifically the policy hub. Can you tell us a little bit about the policy hub and any other resources that NASPA is currently putting out for members?

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:15:38]: Yeah. So I have to give credit to the NASPA policy and advocacy colleagues that we have, both the policy division, the policy and advocacy colleagues on the staff, and others who have been really influential in creating this, the executive team. I should stop naming names because I'm gonna leave somebody out. The idea behind the public policy hub was that we would have a space where individuals who are saying, hey, I see executive words are happening, or this dear, dear colleague letter. I'm trying to keep up with everything. So rather than number one, have to try to bookmark a certain email here or flag a certain news article there, they would have a centralized place to catch up on all the news that would be relevant to higher ed with that student affairs lens. So it's a central location for that. Beyond that, there are places where we can actually do a little bit of a summary.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:16:16]: So if a document is exceptionally long, they may be able to read, not the cliff notes, but give me the summary of what this might mean for student affairs. Now we don't have legal guidance in there. So if someone's listening to this and they're like, oh, I know exactly what to do because the resource hub is going to tell me, that's not it. We would still suggest that because each campus is different, that you talk with your legal counsel and other policy experts, but it does provide a level of translation and curation that I think feels a little bit easier to absorb than what you might see a flurry of emails and newsletters and things like that. So we try to do our best to highlight everything that's happening within real time. And so if something happens at 2PM on Tuesday, then maybe don't check it at 3PM, but very soon after we would have something there, a bit of a summary and something that says considerations. I'd also want to highlight that the public policy division, to a point you just, you just named, they're watching these things very closely. The, the leadership team meets monthly.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:17:03]: They had several sessions during the annual conference. And I know they're probably thinking of some virtual things they can do throughout the rest of the year. In addition to that, probably our regional meetings will have more of that stuff too. So long story short, the policy hub, we're still building into it. Every time something happens that we think would be relevant, it's organized by topic area and by timing of when things occurred. So there's a there's a lot in there. A lot of good stuff in there.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:24]: We've talked a lot about policy, but policy is not all that NASA is. It is a member experience. It's learning. It's resources. It's publications. It's access to other members, its conference gatherings, all of the things that create community in the student affairs profession, in my opinion. So I'm wondering if you can talk about NASPA at large, bigger NASPA. What is your vision for the typical member experience and where you hope to drive the association in kind of the foreseeable future?

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:17:51]: As a membership association, I think the main thing for me will always be the main thing, which is that with, in this case, 14,000 individuals, I want everyone to feel like what they get from NASPA is worth their investment. Now, also understanding that everybody could want something different. That's sometimes challenging, but I'd say at the core, some come to NASPA for the community. Then it's not that these are mutually exclusive, but it does help to be in community with someone who understands your job, does a similar role. I mean, you have shared experiences together. Others will come because they really want to know what's going on, what they can expect in the future. So current and emerging topics, and coupled with that would be a place to learn, learn with each other, learn from each other, a place for scholarship, for research, and all those things. And there may be a long list of other things that people would expect from NASPA.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:18:34]: But regardless of what that mix of expectations is, I think there are three things that I hope everybody will experience to some degree. I hope that they would see NASPA as timely, like a timely organization that regardless of what's happening in higher education or student affairs, they feel like we're on the cusp of what's current, that we can be a place for them to come and be informed. I really want it to be tailored. Something about the comments that I made during the opening session that people keep telling me about is when I made the connection to Netflix. The idea that Netflix really understands what types of films I want to see, short stories I want to see, and they always put those right in front of me. So, that's an opportunity for us to use our data to make that experience for each individual as tailored as possible. So, that though we have a lot to offer, we figured out exactly which things matter most to which people. And then lastly, because I'm just a nice person.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:19:20]: I want us to be thoughtful. I want us to have everything from our messaging to our experiences and our conferences, to all of our interactions to be developed in a way that's thoughtful. Now, again, that's subjective, what's thoughtful to one, someone might say it's no big deal, but I want the intentionality of this relationship between NASPA and its members to be as clear as possible. That I want it to feel like a very thoughtful and tailored and timely organization.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:19:42]: What's most important to NASPO right now?

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:19:44]: It's the same thing I would probably say to anybody. We gotta be close to the membership. And I don't like to compare crises, but I would say during the pandemic, we made a a conscious decision to say we wanted to lower the the cost of the annual conference, for example, just to make it so that more people could actually stay involved. And it's not that I'm looking for this exclusively as a business. I'm looking at it really to say, we have a hard time having community with no people. And so what's important to me is that we have individuals feel like they can still be connected to us and have access to what we're doing. We're going to make it through this. I really do think that this is a difficult time, but it's not impossible, but we need a community that's together, that's able to connect and share with each other what we know, and that will get us through this difficult time.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:20:21]: But what's most important is that we have the community. So I wanna be able to deliver some decisions that will help us get to that point now and for the foreseeable future.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:29]: I think this is a really important message that, you know, NASPA's focus is not whiplashing with the things that are changing, but a continual focus that ultimately, it's a member organization, and we're here to support each other and to serve the needs of the profession. And keeping that mission at the core, I think, is really gonna be seen by the members as we move forward.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:20:49]: I hope so.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:50]: At the conference, you made four predictions, and you asked four questions of higher ed. And I think these are really important to share, especially for those who were not able to attend the conference or for those who only got to see it live or wanted more time to reflect that. We can go there a little bit. So I'm gonna start with the predictions. The first thing you predicted was that things are gonna be hard for several years, but we're going to survive. Can you talk more about that?

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:21:12]: Yes. I would say we I could think of higher ed in the the long term. So I almost wanna make the connection between that and the stock market. And those who are finance nerds. If I weren't studying higher ed, I'd be looking more at financial markets and things like that. But oftentimes when people talk about investing, they say, maybe don't look at one to two years. You know, what's happened this year compared to last year. If you look at the market over time, it always rebounds now.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:21:34]: So realize that this is coming out at a time when the markets right now are tumbling. So I'm hoping that this analogy still holds. But the idea is that if you took a one hundred year period, you would see very few fluctuations. If you were to look at the diagram, The idea is that it's mostly consistent and it will probably rebound. Even during periods of recession or depression, the market will rebound. I don't want to make a one to one parallel, but I will say higher ed does need to change. And we all realized that that was not new, but I don't see a situation in which all of higher education will ultimately crumble. We will survive.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:22:03]: And in the keynote, I said, there are some places where I think we will actually continue to thrive. We're not doing all this work for nothing and not everything is going bad. I realized that the news cycles would have you believe that everything is going in the downward direction, but there are still students who are having a very good college experience. There are still campuses that are having vibrant experiences within student affairs, amid all of these challenges. So when I say survive, I mean, we're still going to be here, but it's not going to be all bad. I think there'll be some very, very hard challenges that will point out to us places where we were a little bit more vulnerable and we'll approve on those things. And ultimately we will thrive because we will be better at rebounding. And I say reacting and then being proactive for some things that are coming.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:22:42]: So, long winded way of saying, I think that things will be hard because they're already hard, but I don't think that we will be in a place where higher it will ultimately crumble. We will survive.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:50]: Your second prediction dovetails here, which is that NASPA will thrive.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:22:53]: I think I said alliteration. If I had the the timely thorough alliteration there, I want to use another one with the letter V and just say, I've said this in a couple of interviews that I think NASPA will continue to be a valuable, vibrant, and versatile organization. I use those three things intentionally. So I always say valuable and that if someone comes to NASBA, I want them to feel like they got what they expected to some degree. Now, again, trying to do that for $14,000 that's a little hard, but there should be some value. There should be some value there. It's the same way I want to emphasize the need for us to show the value of student affairs in the larger conversation. Vibrant because we're a wonderful community.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:23:26]: We bring all kinds of differences, backgrounds of perspectives of cultures, you know, just all kinds of things that make a really wonderful mix of experiences, which is why I think we had such a great time in New Orleans. And then versatile because we're big enough. And I feel fortunate to say this, that we can pivot if we need to. And I almost hesitate to say that word pivot because we use it so much during the pandemic. But versatility in the sense that with the membership that goes across so many functions within student affairs and so many levels of involvement from senior leaders all the way to those who are studying at the graduate level. Of course, we're going to be versatile, so we can do a lot of things simultaneously. And I think that's, that's one of the things that makes the Aspen special.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:24:02]: Your third prediction is that student affairs will become more collaborative, which I think is an interesting one, because I feel like as a field, we're already pretty collaborative and sharing practice. What does this mean in practice?

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:24:13]: Yeah, I think about it in terms of the student affairs function on a campus, and I'll give some shout outs here. Not that I have any favorites, but the things that come to mind. So there are a lot of other areas of a campus that are doing what they would describe as student success work. They may not say student affairs, but student success work. In the Kubo, for example, they just released recently a student success hub. And so I think that was some intentionality to say that there is a connection between business decisions and and ultimately trying to help students succeed in college. And so I could see the collaborations between student affairs and the finance office being one, student affairs and IR, student affairs and technology. As you can see within a campus, I think we're going to have even more collaborations than what we currently have.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:24:50]: Nationally, I'd say at a broad level, there are lots more collaborations across associations. And whether those be funded by philanthropy or just started up because of shared goodwill and interest, I really do think, pointing back to that earlier question about the association community, we're gonna see a lot more collaboration, and I'm excited about it. I'm happy for the number of student affairs associations that came to the NASPA conference too, off the invitation. I I really feel grateful that they came and spent the time with us. And your

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:14]: fourth prediction was that we were going to have a fantastic twenty twenty five annual conference. So I wanna give a huge shout out and congratulations to doctor Akira Bradley Armstrong, who was the annual conference chair. It was a fantastic conference. I believe we had about 6,200 attendees.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:25:28]: 6,600.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:29]: 60 six hundred. That's nearly 50% of national members. Is it usually that high? It felt really vibrant this year to me more so than maybe past years.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:25:39]: I think it's the largest one since the pandemic happened. So we've had a couple that were larger than that, like, over 7,000, but this was the largest one we've had since coming back from the pandemic. And now since I gotta say some thank yous, I definitely Akira and the whole conference leadership committee, they did a great job. We had thousands of volunteers who did everything from help direct traffic to work at the membership area, the registration area. We have a lot of volunteer help, which was great. The board was really fantastic. The staff was great. Of course, a lot of staff of the hotels and the convention center.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:26:06]: So it takes a lot of work. That project, I would say the conference itself starts at least maybe eighteen months to two years in advance. All the details, the local arrangements committee. I mean, just a lot of people put a lot of work into this. So, I had a good feeling it was going to be good, but I think when I said it, I should have put fantastic and bold. It was a really, really, it's a really good experience. And it was kind of like a metaphor because anybody who was there in person on Saturday might recall we had some really, really just turbulent weather. It was really, really windy.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:26:34]: And unfortunately there were some tornadoes nearby that touched down. And so, to go from that really windy stormy day to Sunday at the opening in the evening, and the sun was shining, and it wasn't too hot, it wasn't too cold, and we got to go to Mardi Gras world. It was truly like the sunshine after the storm, which nobody would have planned it that way, But to go into that idea that I had, that higher ed will actually be fine on the long term, it's going to look different. Truly, I think it will feel different. It'll be different, but the sun's going to come back out. That sounds so cheesy. I know. I know.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:27:04]: It sounds so cheesy. I know. I know. Just go with me.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:06]: Our co producer on the podcast, Chris, he actually got diverted to Mobile, Alabama and spent, like, several hours on the ground in Alabama trying to get note to Nola. I was several hours delayed out of my connection as well. And so some of my amazing colleagues actually had to present part of the pre con on my behalf. So we all got there, though.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:27:23]: It was rough.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:24]: You also asked four questions of the profession and of higher ed. The first being, what does the increased state in federal involvement in higher ed mean for student affairs staff? And you talked about specifically more difficult conversations and an ongoing urgency to explain implicitly the value of student affairs, which I think a lot of us felt like we were finally seen in COVID in terms of what we were contributing to the higher education experience. Presidents were leaning on student affairs more than many other parts of their university administrations to help the institutions thrive. But have we backslid? Are we going in a different place now?

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:28:00]: I don't think we backslid. I think the current state of us using data to show the value and impact is where it previously was. And I'll, I'll use your example as maybe my starting point for my response. So I think for a while, and this is back to maybe even two or three years into my role as VP for Research and Policy, when I started to spend more time outside of just student affairs and talking with some provost and presidents and things of that sort. So I oftentimes hear a description of student affairs that fits into one of three buckets. Number one, the obvious one that you just named, that student affairs professionals are great in a crisis. And I'm happy that we are. So the crisis in that case being COVID, that we are trained professionals to be able to handle the unexpected events that could be unfortunate in nature.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:28:41]: That's really good. But if we're not careful, we would end up being put in that box and we stay there, which is that we need student affairs. The value of student affairs is that we need someone to handle a crisis. And that's not where I want us to be. On the completely opposite end of the continuum, you have someone who would say, I'm so glad we have student affairs. They are the best at engagement activities. We have orientation, we have clubs and activities, all kinds of things that make students feel welcome and belong. And we absolutely need that.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:29:03]: And I'm happy that that's part the portfolio. But if we're not careful, you'll see articles that come out and describe student affairs as balloons in the lawn and pizza parties and things of that sort. And we need those things too. Those are elements of helping students feel welcome and comfortable, but we're more than that. And we're more than crisis. The middle piece, the third narrative that I want to see pushed more, and it started a little bit during the student success wave when there was a student success agenda for everybody, whether it be conferences or roles and things like that, is that we are facilitators of learning. That those very same things that employers say that they want and graduate schools say they want, critical thinkers and those who can communicate well and solve complex problems, we are facilitators of those things. And so when I said we need more data to show the value and impact, it's impact across all three.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:29:45]: We're doing fine on the crisis management. Even without extra data, people know that we're getting a crisis, and they know that we are very good in engagement. But we need an extra effort, additional effort to show the real impact that we have for every student who engages with advising of any type. The likelihood of them persisting in major is this, the likely of them, likely of them moving toward graduation and completing a credential. It's this. That's the missing piece that I think. So I don't think we've gone backward. The two very clear narratives are just as clear as they were years ago, but I want to push a little bit more to see that that value and impact conversation expands beyond what I would say are the two prevailing narratives at the time.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:20]: The second question you asked is NASPA changing its strategy for supporting the profession. And your response on stage was that it's changing some of the strategies for supporting the profession, but we still have a major focus on learning and data, inform portfolios and resources. Anything you wanna elaborate on here?

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:30:38]: Yeah. So the the new and the different. The different pieces that I really want us to be more data informed. And so on stage, I made the example of Netflix that basically, if we do the best we can with this abundance of data that we have, I should know that doctor Jill likes to read articles that are on this. And so when we write you, I feel like at least a section of that update email should say, check out the latest that we have on the areas that interest you. So that part should be new. We're not behind in that regard, but we have definitely a lot more opportunity that we haven't leveraged yet. The more things change, the more they stay the same, we're still a membership association, and we have a commitment to learning and community and access and all the things that I just mentioned earlier about why I feel like NASPA's commitment should stay the same.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:15]: Feel like there's an opening for AI to do some work for us here.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:31:19]: Could be.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:20]: Your third question, which I think is an important one, and one we've been talking about on the podcast for a long time now is is everyone leaving student affairs. And this question, the way we've talked about it on the podcast is really directed towards salaries and hours and things like that because of the level of intensity of the work, the credentials required for entry level positions, the constant tension with HR data about what the value of a position is and things like that. You gave some statistics, which is that eighty eight percent of people surveyed state that they would leave due to the salaries not being commensurate with their experience or their expectations of the position. And that sixty eight percent said that they have they have job duties that are not in their PD. That other duties as assigned box is something we all say a bit pejoratively, but it's a very real pain. And that sixty one percent plan to stay more than five years. So there's some things in the statistics that aren't wholly aligned, but I think the story hasn't changed a ton.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:32:20]: So with one caveat on the former pieces of data. So the eighty eight percent, we didn't ask them about what would make them want to leave. We asked them what they think others would leave for. So basically what we're asking, we said, hey, if someone were to leave the field in the next five years, why do you think they would leave? And then the 88% said, hey, this is probably going to be paid. To add to the ones you just named, another 84% said they think others will leave because of the stress of the work. Like it's just really hard work. The other 81% said they think others will leave because they feel undervalued and then you get to sixty eight percent. So the data are clear.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:32:49]: If I had to guess, it would be no different. Even if I asked someone, hey, John, why do you think someone else would leave at this 88% that said pay? Pretty good chance that John themselves would say, I too would have considered leaving for one of those four reasons. So for each individual, it may not be that their number one is pay, but I think those are still the top four, regardless of whether you're talking about yourself or someone else, which is why we followed up with that question of, well, what are you planning on doing? And 61% saying, okay, I think in the next five years, I'll probably stay. That's not exceptionally good news. It's not bad news, it's right in the middle, which is to say, there's the opportunity. And I'm thinking all the time about what would it take to get that 61% to trend upward instead of downward? Because even though they said, I think I'm planning on staying, amid all the things that you've just named, those are all reasons, you know, some of them beyond assets control. Like we can't control what campuses would offer in terms of salary, but we can offer some strategies for how to approach staff retention and not just keeping them there, but helping it be a thriving and valuable and vibrant profession that could move that 61% up instead of down. So you're right.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:33:48]: I think the biggest issue in student affairs has to be how we're going to retain individuals and pathways into the profession, not just to get into it for a few years and to say, I think I'm going to go someplace else, but to say there's enough space there for growth professionally. And hopefully, we'll see more people respond differently if we were to ask that question again. I'm kind of nervous to ask it right now, given everything that's happening in the backdrop of higher education.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:10]: That's fair, but it also leads very nicely into the fourth question you asked, which is, if things remain difficult for a while, how do we find and keep our joy in the profession? And I'm gonna quote you because I actually giggled. You said, we've got about 65, 60 six hundred attendees here in New Orleans. And quote, this might sound like a ploy for NASBA, but you chose to come here.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:34:31]: Yes. Yes. And I wanna celebrate that. I had to say it that way because ultimately, and you made a great point, that we had almost half the membership that came. And though each individual's experience is different, each campus' experiences are different, one of the best places you can be in a difficult time is in community. And so, there were so many people, and I realize I'm about to be that single person example, but there were a lot of people that I saw walking around the conference that actually gave hugs or high fives and they were smiling. And it doesn't mean that everything was perfect. It doesn't mean that they didn't come from some tumultuous situations, job losses and everything else.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:35:02]: But in this moment, when you're trying to find joy, like where can I find my small piece of happy in a difficult time? Something about being in community does help you manage that. So back to your first question, when you said, how's it been going so far? I had to quickly say it has not been easy, but it is much more bearable when you have a community of people that you know are welcoming and can say, Hey, I get it. I understand what you're going through. And that to me helps find and keep a little bit of joy in these hard times while we're waiting for this period of difficulty to pass through. And it will. The storm will pass through. We will have more coming, but this particular one, I'd rather be under the umbrella than somebody else talking about it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:37]: Anything else you want to share with the membership right now?

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:35:39]: Gratitude, honestly, just gratitude. Everybody who's asked like, how's it going, though? How's it really going? How are you doing? How are you really doing? That's an extra question because I think we all get it. But this truly, in my remarks, I said this is just one of the best places I've ever worked, one of the best professions I've ever been a part of, and I'm grateful. I know that there's still a lot more hard work to do, and there are gonna be times when we're gonna be even more disappointed with the direction of things. I don't think that I'd be wise to tell anybody, hey, don't worry about it. Give it a couple of months. We'll be back stronger than ever. It's going to be hard for a while, which is why I said a few years, but I'm just truly grateful, grateful for all the volunteers and members.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:36:14]: And and even you for inviting me to the podcast, knowing my schedule wouldn't let me do it on on time in New Orleans. I'm just really grateful.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:20]: We're just glad to have you, Amelia. And now we are on to our theme questions for the season, which is the past, present, and future of student affairs. So I've got one question for you on each part of this theme. So on the past, what's one component of the history of the student affairs profession that you think we should continue to carry forward or alternatively let go of?

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:36:39]: I have two. I wanna have two. I think the history of student affairs, which might map nicely to NASPA, is this opportunity for trying something new. We have a number of new things that I'd say if we never tried them, we wouldn't have something to build on. So everything from our institutes, specifically identity based programming, all kinds of things that we've said, Hey, I see a need here. We haven't previously done this. Let's try it. So I liked this idea of innovation.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:37:02]: At one point, I think we still do have that as one of our four guiding principles. So I like the idea that as things change, we can change with it. Student affairs can change too, inappropriate ways as necessary. I also liked that in the early history of student affairs, there's a lot of discussion about it coming out of a place of counseling or caring for others, something about community and that we're just, again, feeling particularly grateful right now. I think if there's a history of NASPA that's rooted in the idea that we should be caring about each other and for each other, I think I'd like to carry that forward too. In terms of letting things go, I would love to let go a little bit of this idea that you work until you're exhausted. You know, it's part of the change has to be a changing model for how we do student affairs work. So I do want us to start to let go of this idea that in order to do the work well, you have to work beyond what you're capable of.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:37:45]: It's really hard to care for someone else when you're not caring for yourself. So that's what I would say. I guess that's three things, That's three things.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:50]: On the present, what's happening in the field right now that's going well for student affairs?

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:37:55]: Advising and anything related to us supporting students and making their hardest decisions. And that's not me positioning advising as the best part of student affairs, because I think honestly, a lot of people in student affairs have advising roles, even if they don't have that title. So within the whole, I guess, continuum of student affairs work, students are still seeing us, talking to us, engaging with us. And I think right now, even in this backdrop of difficult policy developments, we're still giving council advice, support to students. I think we're still doing a good job at that. I really had this hunch that the best part of student affairs is that we are connected to students and they're going to give us real time indications of how things are going. So yeah, anything related to that. The second I'd probably say, even though you told me to give you one, we're still facilitating learning.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:38:37]: So yes, of course we're doing crisis management and we're doing engagement, but I think we are still facilitating lots of learning opportunities for students. And we're we're getting to a place where we're better at documenting that. Maybe that's another podcast episode for another time.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:49]: And finally, looking towards the future, in an ideal world, what does the field need to do to thrive towards the future?

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:38:55]: Gotta be data informed. Gotta be able to do more than just say we're making an impact. We've got to be able to show with data and information what that impact is and how we can sustain it. I feel like the future is gonna require that of us. And I think we're moving in the right direction, but I feel like the field as a whole, we have the evidence because we've been doing the work, but we gotta be able to provide that and curate it to different audiences so that we could not just sustain ourselves and make a good case, but literally keep the good work going in a more intentional way.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:20]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:39:26]: Thanks, Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world, and there's a ton of things happening in NASPA. There is a new short course that's being offered through NASPA called Designing Campuses for Mental Health and Well-being. The course runs from May 5 to June 9. And in this essential short course, it explores the crucial intersection of campus design and mental health in higher education. As we navigate an academic landscape marked by increasing mental health challenges, it's clear that depression and other mental health concerns compounded by academic stress lead to negative outcomes, including higher dropout rates. This course highlights the the vital role of administrators in student affairs in fostering a culture of wellness and understanding on their college or university campuses. Through comprehensive insights from experts, the course will explore various mental health models, assess campus specific needs, and develop actionable sustainable strategies to enhance campus wide mental health.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:40:28]: Through this short course, you will join a transformative journey to better support your students and colleagues and create a thriving supportive academic environment. Another short course not to miss is happening between June 16 and July 21 called building a shared commitment to well-being. This short course is designed by members of the NASPA health safety and well-being initiatives team. In this short course, you will be guided by student affairs professionals through a comprehensive understanding of holistic well-being, focusing on fostering a shared commitment to well-being in educational environments, particularly through the integration Through this course, you will have the opportunity to cultivate, Through this course, you will have the opportunity to cultivate an inclusive culture that prioritizes the health and well-being of the entire campus community. You can find out more about either of these courses on the NASPA learning portal going to learning.NASPA.org. Also, today, I'm gonna give you a save the date for the NASPA symposium on military connected students. The next symposium on military connected students will be held in Norfolk, Virginia from February 17 through the twentieth, twenty twenty sixth. The twenty twenty six NASPA Symposium on Military Connected Students is the association's premier event designed for student affairs for student for student affairs practitioners supporting military connected students.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:42:06]: The Symposium is your exclusive opportunity to share evidence based practices from your campus or organization. Through this Symposium, you can learn from leading researchers in the field and engage with other professionals committed to supporting military connected students. This three day symposium features keynote sessions, research, policy, and best practice best practices presentations and workshop style sessions to help campus professionals develop or enhance their programming and services for military connected students. You still have some time as the early registration deadline ends on 10/27/2025, but sign up today to get ready for this amazing learning opportunity. Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:43:25]: Where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:44:14]: Chris, thank you so much as always for keeping us informed on what's going on in and around NASPA. And, Amelia, we have reached our lightning round questions. And as a second time guest, we have slightly different set of questions for you. So I'm gonna change up the first one a little bit because you literally were just a conference keynote speaker, and you walked up to Before I Let Go Thank You by Starchild. You also said when you entered that you changed the song, like, four times. So can you tell us what the other songs were?

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:44:40]: Yeah. So, well, the the song this version that I came out to, it was Before I Let Go. It was Frankie Beverly and Maze, but then on top of that, it was Beyonce's cover of it. So the ones that didn't make the cut, I'll give you two of them. And both of them were good for, for different reasons. Stevie Wonder is my favorite artist. And so it was gonna be Sir Duke that I came out to, but I saved that one for another time. I just really liked Stevie.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:44:58]: And plus I actually used that one at a conference in November. So I want to do something fresh. The other one is I love Whitney Houston, and I wanted to go with, I want to dance with somebody, but I was like, maybe that's going to take too long to get to the chorus. The intro people know, but I was like, nah, it just wouldn't work. And plus the one I picked had a little bit of a live band thing, which seemed to work with the New Orleans vibe. So, I landed there.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:17]: Number two, your undergraduate degree, and do you use it in your work now?

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:45:20]: All the time. Maybe not the specific class related principles because it's been a couple decades since I was an undergrad, but, yeah, I was a business administration major. So being a president right now, I spend more time looking at business analytics than I ever have. So absolutely. I use it all the time. And the board kind of expects me to make sure that NASPA's financials are intact. And so, yeah, debits and credits and assets and liabilities and revenue and expenses. Absolutely.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:43]: Minor details. Minor details.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:45:44]: Minor. Minor details. Minor details. Yes.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:46]: Number three, your guilty pleasure TV show binge.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:45:49]: Oh, I've been watching a lot of TV. I've been watching, because I do a lot of DVR. Beyond the Gates. It's a brand new soap opera that's on CBS. I've enjoyed that very much. I just finished Paradise on Hulu, which everybody at the conference told me I should watch, and I finished it in two days. It was really good. And like I said in the keynote, I did watch Love is Blind.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:46:06]: I I have to watch it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:07]: I heard this season called Love is Bland. Number four. If someone visits your city, Washington, DC, what's the one place they must eat?

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:46:16]: Well, if if they're not opposed to eating meat, I would definitely say go to Ben's Chili Bowl. It's a staple of the city. You gotta do that. If you like sushi, I would say go to Oku. I feel like I I should be giving you one answer. So what are those two? I'll go with those two. Those are two spots I would go to.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:29]: Number five, your favorite work related podcast.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:46:32]: Oh, other than the MASP, the podcast. Don't say that? Let me let me go without one. I wanna say MASP. I should be listening to MASP, but that's the one.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:37]: Number six, your favorite not work related podcast. I listen

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:46:40]: to a lot of personal finance and investment type stuff. So it's not called everyday millionaires, and maybe it's they might be called everyday millionaires. But the idea that these are everyday people who have figured out how to make sound investments, not anything, like, quick, like day trading, but simple things that help them get to a place of financial stability. So I really like the idea that more individuals start investing early. And so hearing about people who made that journey just really excited to me, and they all have different paths to the same outcome.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:47:06]: And finally, number seven, any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional?

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:47:10]: Okay. So, the whole NASPA membership, even those who did not come to the conference, I just have to go back to my place of gratitude. I'm just honored and thankful to be in this role. So, shout out to everybody who's a member of NASPA and to those who are not a member of NASPA, but a part of student affairs. I truly think it's not exclusively about joining NASPA, but to be in student affairs right now, it's one of the most challenging and joyful times, play on the title of my keynote. So anybody who works in student affairs, hello to you all. Thank you so much for everything that you're doing for your campuses and for your students. Shout out to you and Chris.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:47:39]: Thank you for keeping the podcast going. This is a place where, when we have these conversations, I know you have to do a lot to curate it and get it ready. So thank you. Thank you to both of you and thank you to the NASPA staff and the board and everybody. So I think I probably covered just about everybody in that everybody in the field space. But personally, I would say I want to thank my sister and my brother-in-law and my friend, Tiffany, all who were in the front row for the conference. I'll never forget it. It was good to see their smiling faces.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:48:00]: And then lastly, to Kevin Kruger, who preceded me in the role, to Gwen Dungey, who preceded him, to be in this role, those two individuals, I've had conversations with them. They understand more than anybody what it's like to do the job. And to my mentor, Bob Schwartz, who along the way, that early, early question about my journey, he's been with me the whole time. And so I really hesitate to do this because I feel like I'll leave somebody out. But, yeah, that's my short but yet long list of people.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:48:22]: I do have to say after I think we've known each other for at least five, ten years at this point, and I didn't learn till the conference you were a twin.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:48:28]: Yes. I am.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:48:32]: That was my first time knowing that. Very cute picture, by the way, that you put up on this line.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:48:36]: Even though I was half smiling, barely smiling. Yeah.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:48:39]: Amelia, it's always a pleasure to speak with you. And I know a lot of our members would like to stay in contact with you. If they would like to reach you after this episode airs, how can they find you?

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:48:47]: The best way is [email protected]. I check my emails on my phone all the time. I try to get back to folks as soon as I can. But if it's more casual and social, I'm on LinkedIn, but I don't really do as much there. But I'd be happy to connect with anybody there too. But email is probably the best place. Well,

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:49:00]: Amelia, it's been a pleasure to have you back on the pod. As always, we want to thank you so much for sharing your voice with us and the NASPA community.

Dr. Amelia Parnell [00:49:07]: Thank you very much for having me.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:49:14]: This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field, a podcast brought to you by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners, and we continue to be grateful that you spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can always email us at [email protected] or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L. Creighton. We always welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show, and please leave us a five star rating on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It really helps other student affairs professionals find our show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:49:53]: That's me. Produced and audio engineered by doctor Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.