Should colleges actively resist the Trump administration or find ways to engage and compromise? Vanderbilt University’s chancellor, Daniel Diermeier, has emerged as a leading example of engagement — facing a mix of cheers and jeers in the academy. Jeff and Michael talked with Diermeier about why he thinks higher education needs to change, and his ambitions to grow his institution’s prestige and research impact. This episode is made with support from Ascendium Education Group.

“Live from Milken: One-on-One with Bill Ackman,” preview Future U episode.

“Arizona State’s President Is Pulling Out All the Stops to Get on Trump’s Good Side,” in The New York Times.

“The Elite-University Presidents Who Despise One Another,” in The Atlantic.

“The (Not So) Quiet Schism Among Academic Leaders,” in The Chronicle of Higher Education.

“College-Age Jews Are Heading South,” in The Atlantic.

0:00 - Introduction

2:07 - Why Vanderbilt’s Chancellor Stands Out in This Moment

4:46 - Is Vanderbilt Trying to Beat the Ivies?

7:23 - Why Vanderbilt Chose Dialogue With Trump Administration

10:06 - Did Higher Ed Get Too Comfortable?

11:12 - Are Higher Ed Institutions Up to the Challenge of Responding to Trump?

15:22 - What Daniel Diermeier Sees As Most Needed Reform for Higher Ed

17:40 - Will 'Resistance" by Colleges Hurt Federal Funding Broadly?

21:48 - Could the U.S. Lose the Lead In Higher Ed?

23:25 - Why Jewish Students are Flocking to Vanderbilt - 

26:58 - A Plan for Expansion to Other Cities

29:03 - Sponsor Break 

29:43 - Is Trump the Symptom or Cause of Higher Ed’s Challenges?

34:37 - A Rift Over How to Respond to Skepticism of College

37:40 - How Could the Research Process Be Reformed?

39:41 - The Fallout from October 7 Protests

43:40 - The Challenge of Political Diversity on Campus

49:37 - Can a New Group of Campuses Unseat the Ivy League?

52:06 - The Role of College Athletics in Campus Prestige

53:06 - A Regional Shift in Prominence

57:55 - Lightning Round With Daniel Diermeier

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As the year comes to a close, Jeff and Michael step back to review some themes from recent episodes. They home in on how to build innovative campus cultures, and how colleges can respond to AI. And they look ahead, offering predictions for higher ed for 2026. This episode is made with support from Ascendium Education Group, Adobe, and Butler University.

“A Looming Crisis: New Analysis Shows Dozens of Well-Known Colleges Are Near Financial Trouble,” 

Michael Horn and Steven Shulman

"The Financially Sustainable University,"

Jeff Denneen and Tom Dretler

0:00 - Introduction

4:22 - A Case for Massive Experimentation

6:30 - Making Shared Governance an Asset

10:00 - Building Innovation Into Campus Culture

11:41 - Lessons From Silicon Valley

13:17 - What Parents Are Asking About AI at Colleges

14:54 - Importance of Experiential Learning

18:40 - How Liberal Arts Can Be Taught Differently in the AI Age

21:11 - Being Creative v. Being a Creator

22:20 - Time for Colleges to Step Back and Strategize About AI

28:00 - New Research Reveals Mid-Size Colleges Could At Financial Risk

33:43 - Understanding the Details of New Student Loan Caps

37:37 - Breaking Down the Latest Enrollment Numbers

40:07 - Michael’s Predictions for 2026

41:56 - Jeff’s Predictions for 2026

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On the latest stop of Future U.'s campus tour, hosts Michael Horn and Jeff Selingo visit Bowie State University to speak with President Aminta Breaux, as well as faculty and administrators at the Maryland institution about increased enrollment at HBCUs, partnerships with employers, and student engagement. With support from Salesforce.org.

When Marymount Manhattan College’s board of trustees decided last year to merge with Northeastern University, becoming a part of that Boston-based university’s global system, the vote was unanimous. As Jeff and Michael continue their ongoing exploration (some might say obsession) with mergers and acquisitions in higher ed, they talk to one of Marymount Manhattan’s trustees, Abby Fiorella, on this episode to get a board member’s perspective on how mergers can be strategic wins for smaller institutions, as well as key to protecting their core missions. This episode is made with support from Ascendium Education Group.

“God and Man at Yale,” by William F. Buckley.

"The Abundant University: Remaking Higher Education for a Digital World," by Michael Smith,

Mission statement of Arizona State University

Mission statement of Southern New Hampshire University

“Why a University Proactively Sought a Merger," our other episode this season about M&A in higher ed.

0:00 - Why Do We Keep Talking About Mergers?

3:50 - Introducing Our Guest, Abby Fiorella

5:17 - How to Prepare a Board for a Merger

9:19 - Deciding on Institutional Priorities

12:44 - What Is Marymount Manhattan College Doing to Preserve Its Identity?

17:17 - How Can a Board Come to Peace With a Merger?

21:40 - How Can Boards Make Mergers Less Taboo?

24:29 - Reframing Merging As an Opportunity

27:01 - Closing Thoughts From a Trustee

28:54 - Sponsor Break

29:38 - What It Means for a Board to Be Responsible to a Mission

36:21 - How Can Universities Put Mission Statements Into Practice?

38:52 - Why College Mergers Require ‘Courage’

39:21 - Making Time in Board Meetings for Strategic Planning

44:56 - The Role of Communication Between Presidents and Boards in Considering Mergers

47:59 - Why Most Boards Should Set Up Systems to Prepare for an Uncertain Future

48:37 - Lightning Round With Abby Fiorella

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In this special episode recorded live at Adobe’s EduMAX conference, Jeff and Michael explore practical ways to harness AI in higher education to prepare students to be more effective creators. They were joined by a panel of industry and academic experts including Jennifer Sparrow, New York University’s chief academic technology officer; Simon Koh, who has led early career recruiting at Raymond James and KPMG, among other organizations; and Allison Salisbury, founder and CEO of Humanist Venture Studio.

“AI Is Not Just Ending Entry-Level Jobs. It’s the End of the Career Ladder as We Know It,” CNBC“

The Rise of AI Will Make Liberal Arts Degrees Popular Again. Here’s Why,” in Inc magazine.

0:00 - Intro

3:49 - What Is an AI-Ready Graduate?

7:52 - How AI is Changing Early-Career Jobs

11:00 - What Skills and Mindsets Do Students Need?

14:31 - How Colleges Can Increase Experiential Education With Employers

22:19 - What Colleges Do As Employers Pull Back on Internships

28:37 - What is the Purpose of College in an AI World?

34:14 - How the Signaling Power of College Could Change in the AI Era

37:38 - How Students Are Using AI to Create

41:25 - Will AI Bring Resurgence of Liberal Arts?

45:50 - How Creativity is Important Even in the Finance Sector

49:31 - Why AI is More Creative Than Humans

51:40 - What Colleges Can Do in the Next 12 Months

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In this time of uncertainty and pullback of federal support for higher education, is it time for states to step up and play a greater leadership role in helping colleges better serve students? And if so, how? Jeff and Michael debate those questions on this episode. To set the stage, they talk with Ruth Watkins, president of postsecondary education for Strada Education Foundation and a former college president, about Strada’s new State Opportunity Index. A key theme: the state level may be the ideal one to match educational offerings with available jobs, especially as AI reshapes so many industries. This episode is made with support from Strada Education Foundation.

0:00 - Intro

3:40 - How a New Report Measures State Higher Ed Efforts

5:53 - Is This a Time for States to Lead?

8:17 - How to Encourage Competition Among States

10:12 - Which States Lead In Higher Ed ROI

12:52 - Low Tuition Doesn’t Guarantee Good ROI

15:39 - What Can Colleges Do If Job Prospects Are Low in a State?

19:00 - Who Is the Audience for the State Opportunity Index?

21:09 - How Can State Measure Return on Investing in Higher Ed?

23:52 - What Can States Do in Higher Ed to Respond to AI?

26:45 - Sponsor Break

27:55 - Some Context for How States Interact With Federal Higher Ed Support

29:40 - Why Jeff Thinks States and the Feds Aren’t ‘Rowing in the Same Direction’

32:00 - Why Michael Sees More Alignment in State and Federal Efforts

34:15 - Will States Step In to Support Research?

37:07 - Are Some States Doing Better on Work-Based Learning?

40:54 - Colleges Still Aren’t Comfortable in Their Role of Getting Students Jobs

46:29 - New Leadership Opportunity In Human Capital in the AI Era

48:18 - A Better Way to Measure State Investment

51:56 - Lightning Round With Ruth Watkins

2025 Strada State Opportunity Index

Strada Education Foundation 

2025 Grapevine Report

State Higher Education Executive Officers Association

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On the latest stop of Future U.'s campus tour, Michael and Jeff visit Butler University to talk with Butler president Jim Danko and other campus leaders. They explore how, out of a mix of excitement about serving students and fear of potential competitive threats on the horizon, the university built a culture and infrastructure to encourage innovation.

Butler University’s Transformation Lab website.

0:00 - Why We Wanted to Visit Butler University

3:46 - What Butler’s President Said He Would Do When He First Started

7:22 - Some Early Wins In Sparking Innovation

9:16 - The Importance of Time and Patience in College Leadership

13:25 - How Presidents Can Best Work With Trustees to Encourage Innovation

15:46 - How a Business Background Influenced Leading a University

19:37 - Why Did Butler Push for Innovation?

21:11 - Putting a Vision Into Practice

22:50 - The Importance of Wanting to Win

28:01 - A Chief Strategy Officer’s Viewpoint

35:35 - A Faculty Perspective on Innovation

37:04 - The 50-50 Rule of Running the Board of Trustees

38:53 - What Butler Ventures Looks Like Today

47:43 - What Grade Would Butler Give Its Innovation Efforts?

52:00 - Closing Observations

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How can AI be adopted in a way that turns more students into “explorers” rather than “passengers” in their learning? This week we bring you a conversation with the co-author of a book on student disengagement in school, Rebecca Winthrop, who is also researching the impact of AI on education. The episode is by one of Future U’s producers, Jeff Young, from his new podcast, Learning Curve.

0:00 - Intro 

4:19 - When the ‘Student Disengagement Crisis’ Started

7:25 - A Framework for Describing Levels of Student Engagement

15:18 - How AI Is Impacting Student Motivation

19:00 - Why ChatGPT’s ‘Study Mode’ Is Not the Answer

25:05 - Advice for Companies Making AI Tools for Education

29:32 - Tips for Students 

34:42 - A High School Student’s Take on AI 

48:30 - Advice For Teachers on Dealing with AI

51:35 - What Is the Purpose of School in the Age of Generative AI?

“The Disengaged Teen,” 

by Rebecca Winthrop and Jenny Anderson 

“Minnesota high school student weighs the benefits and pitfalls of AI,” 

Minnesota Now

“I’m a High Schooler. AI Is Demolishing My Education,”

The Atlantic

Brookings Global Task Force on AI in Education

website

‘We Have to Really Rethink the Purpose of Education,’

The Ezra Klein Show

“Attention Please: Professors Struggle With Student Disengagement,”

EdSurge

“Playing the Grade Game,”

Bootstraps podcast series

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Parents and prospective students want to know how colleges are responding to the rise of generative AI — and to other recent developments like federal budget cuts to research. On this episode, Jeff and Michael share what they’re both hearing as they visit campuses around the country this fall. And they offer their analysis of what AI could mean for higher education, and whether the time is ripe for new entrants to enter the college landscape. This episode is made with support from Ascendium Education Group.

Should College Get Harder?

Joshua Rothman in The New Yorker

Student Loan Debt Is Strangling Gen X

Oyin Adedoyin in The Wall Street Journal

Charlie Javice sentenced to 7 years in prison for $175M fraud

ABC News

Anthology Declares Bankruptcy, Blackboard to Remain as the Core,

Phil Hill, in OnEdTech

0:00 - Intro

2:23 - What Jeff Is Hearing On His Book Tour for ‘Dream School’

4:25 - Should College Get Harder Because of AI?

7:27 - Why Different Kinds of Colleges Will Be Impacted Differently

10:48 - Startup Universities Are Emerging With an AI Focus

14:25 - Redesigning the College Experience Around Activities and Personal Development

17:39 - Will a New Kind of Expertise Be Required On Campuses?

19:20 - Will Employers Trust Degrees In the AI Era?

24:40 - Sponsor Break

25:35 - How Student Loan Debt Is Impacting Gen X

28:22 - A Republican Effort to Question Consultants That Help Set College Prices

30:15 - Charlie Javice Sentenced In Fraud Case

31:44 - Anthology, Owner of Blackboard LMS, Goes Bankrupt

34:00 - Some Trade Schools Exempted From New Federal Rules

35:00 - Making Changes at Colleges Stick

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Mergers and acquisitions are usually seen as bad things in higher ed. But there’s a growing sense that many colleges could benefit by teaming up, especially as the fiscal cliff means fewer potential students. Jeff and Michael continue to dive into their fascination with M&A by talking to Walter Iwanenko Jr, the president of Gannon University in Erie, Pa., about how and why the institution sought a merger with Ursuline College near Cleveland. This episode is made with support from Ascendium Education Group

“Two North Carolina universities announced a merger. Why some alumni are pushing back,” in USA Today. 

“A Midwest Merger: How Two Ohio Colleges Are Coming Together,” from Future U, season 8.

3:42 - Why Mergers and Acquisitions Are Increasingly Important In HIgher Ed

6:15 - What Led Gannon University to Look for a Merger?

9:30 - What Gannon University Hoped For in a Partner

13:01 - How Gannon University Found Ursuline College

16:21 - What’s Stopping More Colleges From Seeking Mergers?

21:36 - Learning From Other Mergers That Failed

23:04 - What Should Change to Help More Mergers Happen?

27:02 - Sponsor Break

29:00 - How to Change the Perception of M&A in Higher Ed

35:46 - Finding the Right Leadership

38:30 - What is the Trump Administration’s Stance on Making College Mergers Easier?

41:08 - Lightning Round

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