In Episode 9 of Layer One, The Block’s Kelvin Sparks and Hypha founder Steven Gates were joined by Nicholas Kunkel (Chronicle) and Rhett Shipp (Avant) to break down the current state of DeFi and what’s actually holding the industry back. They argue that core primitives are already built, and the real unlock lies in tokenized assets, improved liquidity, and seamless integration with traditional finance.

The conversation also explores stablecoin economics, DAO limitations, on-chain credit markets, and what founders need to succeed in crypto today.

OUTLINE
00:00 - Intro
01:11 - Getting Into DeFi
04:38 - Early MakerDAO Days
08:43 - Where Value Accrues
12:23 - Yield and Stablecoins
17:56 - How DeFi Yield Works
23:34 - SubDAOs and Governance
30:33 - Do We Need New Primitives
36:25 - Tokenized Assets Unlock
53:55 - Founder Advice

Guest links:
Rhett Shipp - https://x.com/RhettShipp
Avant - https://x.com/avantprotocol
Niklas Kunkel - https://x.com/nomos_paradox
Chronicle - https://x.com/ChronicleLabs

Host links:
Steven Gates - ⁠⁠⁠https://x.com/stvngts⁠⁠⁠
Kelvin Sparks - https://x.com/imyoungsparks⁠⁠⁠
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