Dr. Renée Lertzman is a climate psychologist who's worked with the likes of Google, Transport for London, the White House,and WWF - and her TED Talk has been viewed over 2 million times. She trains changemakers, organisations, and businesses around the world to stop using outdated models of human behaviour and start applying what we actually know about psychology to create real, lasting change.

Most of us are working from an old, outdated understanding of humans as rational, logical beings - and it's killing our effectiveness. Her work is about ditching the "yell, tell, and sell" approach and learning how to create the relational conditions where people can access the care they already have.

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This podcast is brought to you by Ecologi, the UK's most trusted climate action platform. They help businesses reduce their emissions, restore our planet and report their progress for every step of their climate journey. Check them out here: https://tinyurl.com/kfswnxth

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In this episode, we dive into:

Why you can't make anyone care about climate - and the reframe that actually works: people already care, but something's getting in the way of that care

The three things blocking people from acting on climate: feeling powerless, perceived conflicts with identity/heritage, and lack of safety to express vulnerability

"Yell, tell, and sell" - the three dominant (and failing) approaches to climate communication: moralising and scaring people, over-educating with facts, and toxic positivity cheerleading

Why motivational interviewing works: asking "what's your experience with flying?" instead of "don't you realise how bad flying is for the planet?"

The Transport for London cycling campaign that showed a woman riding through a park with flowers - and why honest, gritty messaging (like showing someone drenched and miserable) would actually work better

How Renée trained message researchers to talk with conservative Republican climate skeptics using active listening - and by the end of a two-minute script, they were saying "yeah, let's do something about climate"

Why that breakthrough research can't get traction - and Renée's frustration that the climate world won't listen to what actually works

The question everyone needs to interrogate: what is your theory of change? (Inspiration? Storytelling? Market transformation? Better research? Processing feelings? The arts?)

Why charged information that evokes disgust, shame, blame, or guilt actually impairs our prefrontal cortex - we literally can't process the information we're being given

The five guiding principles for effective changemaking: attune, reveal, convene, equip, and sustain

Why Renée draws the line at having conversations with people who don't recognize her humanity (like Trump) - but why the "messy middle" of people feeling fearful and threatened is where our energy needs to go

Her upcoming book The Changemaker Code - a playbook for anyone who cares deeply about the world and wants to be more effective while protecting their own resilience and well-being

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Subscribe to the Climate Unf*cked podcast at https://climateunfucked.substack.com/

And connect with me on LinkedIn at: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rob-coop/

Timestamps

00:00 Psychology of Climate Communication

01:58 How do I make people care reframe

06:31 Creating the conditions for change

11:23 The Air Travel Pilot Project

14:05 Transport for London Cycling example

19:45 Just Stop Oil and the Spectrum of Climate Action

23:14 3 Ineffective Approaches

25:51 Theories of Change: What Really Drives Human Behaviour

29:42 Republican Climate Skeptics Project: Listening Works

40:16 What about Trump?

45:58 Renée’s upcoming book

48:26 The Neuroscience of Change: Why Fear Backfires

50:28 Final Bits: Being Seen and Heard