Wider Roots

“Reminding ourselves that, that commerce is not the same thing as capitalism. Buying and selling things is a really old thing that human beings have been doing for way longer than capitalism has existed.”   

Today's episode features anti-capitalist business coach Bear Hebert (they/them). We explore Bear's definition of capitalism as exploitation for profit and discuss principles for running an anti-capitalist business. We examine manipulative tactics often used by entrepreneurs and consider more justice-oriented alternatives.

Bear and I discuss the pressure to have an "ideal" business and how to align money-making with our values. With over 20 years in social justice work, Bear brings insights as both a radical business coach and educator, highlighting how capitalism intersects with white supremacy and patriarchy.

Check out the episode page for the transcript and the full list of the resources mentioned in this episode: https://widerroots.com/11 

• 03:57 - How Bear got politicized
• 10:11 - What makes us feel gross about marketing
• 18:46 - Authentic alternatives to manipulative marketing tactics
• 28:44 - Debunking the myth of the perfect dream job
• 33:47 - Rethinking niching from an anti-capitalist lens
• 36:15 - Business as a garden, not a machine
• 43:37 - Key areas to integrate anti-capitalist values in your business
• 47:58 - Aligning business policies with anti-capitalist principles
• 52:18 - Bear's sources of nourishment
• 56:51 - Closing

• Bear Hebert, Radical Anti-Capitalist Business Coach
• Tad Hargrave, Marketing for Hippies
• Kelly Diels
• Hadassah Damien
• Alternate ROOTS
• Southerners on New Ground (SONG)
• "Hild" by Nicola Griffith (book)
• bell hooks (reference to "power over power under" concept)

• WiderRoots.com - Join the newsletter for more resources on personal and systemic transformation
• @WiderRootsPod - Follow the podcast on Instagram to get a peek behind the scenes
• Leave a rating and review on Apple Podcasts to help others find this show
• Connect with Jeremy on his coaching website

I’d love to hear how this episode resonated with you or any suggestions for future topics/guests. You can email me at [email protected].

“It takes enormous courage and enormous compassion to face reality. To say ‘I want my little contribution to make a difference. Maybe only in the lives of my colleagues, family, and community, but that's enough actually.’”

Today's episode is with author and systems thinker, Margaret Wheatley. For over four decades, she's been helping leaders show up fully in these chaotic times and find meaningful ways to serve. She’s the author of Leadership and The New Science and Who Do We Choose To Be?

I'll be honest - I find Margaret's work both inspiring and deeply confronting. Part of me appreciates her invitation to look directly at the pattern of societal collapse we're in, relieved someone's telling the truth without sugarcoating. Another part wonders if we can really predict how it'll all turn out.

We talk about facing the reality of collapse with clear eyes, redefining meaningful work and life in this context, and how coaches and leaders can move beyond individualism towards community-centered approaches.

Check out the episode page for the transcript and the full list of the resources mentioned in this episode: https://widerroots.com/10 

• 02:33 - The power of clear-eyed leadership in chaotic times
• 09:36 - Embracing reality to find meaningful service
• 13:09 - Breaking free from "hopium" to see our authentic path
• 22:45 - Cultivating presence through mindfulness practices
• 25:42 - Embracing the warrior spirit in a changing world
• 30:39 - Redefining meaningful work and life in turbulent times
• 36:15 - Community as the answer to individualism
• 41:54 - Ancient wisdom we need at these times

• MargaretWheatley.com
• Who Do We Choose To Be (book)
• Restoring Sanity (book)
• Leadership in the New Science (book)
• So Far From Home (book)
• Warriors for the Human Spirit (Margaret’s training program)
• Berkana Institute
• Pema Chodron

• WiderRoots.com - Join the newsletter for more resources on personal + systemic transformation
• @WiderRootsPod - Follow the podcast on Instagram to get a peek behind the scenes
• Leave a rating and review on Apple Podcasts to help others find this show
• Connect with Jeremy on his coaching website

I’d love to hear how this episode resonated with you or any suggestions for future topics/guests. You can email me at [email protected].

“My invitation is just to let ourselves feel the pain. That we don't have to have the shame on top of it. It’s painful to know that I have contributed to the harm of another person and that I had no idea. I don't have to hold shame about it. I can grieve that.”

Check out the episode page for the transcript and the full list of the resources mentioned in this episode: https://widerroots.com/9 

In this conversation, Andréa Ranae and I explore some juicy questions: How has the coaching industry's engagement with social justice evolved over the past 8 years? What does it look like for coaches to recognize our collective power to shape the industry?

Andréa shares stories of the breakthroughs and challenges she's witnessed as her students become politicized. We discuss the importance of taking collective responsibility as coaches and healers. We also dig into the role of shame, and how it can serve as a wake-up call but shouldn't keep us stuck.

Andréa Ranae is a coach, facilitator, and singer-songwriter who has dedicated her life to exploring how we can live, work, and relate in ways that contribute to impactful social change.

• How has the coaching industry evolved in its engagement with social justice over the last eight years?
• What were some of the key concepts and frameworks Andréa needed to introduce to coaches who were new to social justice?
• What breakthroughs have coaches experienced as they became more politicized through her teachings?
• How can coaches use their collective power to shape the industry and create systemic change?
• What questions can politicized coaches ask themselves to work toward collective liberation?
• How can shame serve as an indicator of change, and what role does it play in keeping systems of domination in place?

• Coaching as Activism (Andréa Ranae's program)
• Article: "Why the Self-Help Industry Isn't Changing the World" by Andréa Ranae
• Article: "Why the Self-Help Industry Won't Change the World" (follow up)
• The Combahee River Collective (organization)
• Sasha Heron (public figure, death doula, and ancestral healing practitioner)
• "Love Poems" by Nikki Giovanni (book)

• Andréa Ranae's main Instagram: @AndreaRanaeJ
• Andréa Ranae's website: andrearanae.com
• Andréa Ranae's music Instagram: @DRElikeSade

• WiderRoots.com - Join the newsletter for more resources on personal + systemic transformation
• @WiderRootsPod - Follow the podcast on Instagram to get a peek behind the scenes
• Connect with Jeremy on his coaching website

I’d love to hear how this episode resonated with you or any suggestions for future topics/guests. You can email me at [email protected].

“There's no such thing as personal change outside of a social context. You actually can't separate a person from our social context. And that is just like, well, duh, how did they ever think we could do that?”

Check out the episode page for the transcript and the full list of the resources mentioned in this episode: https://widerroots.com/8 

In this conversation with Staci Haines, we dive into the intersection of personal transformation and structural social change. I appreciate Staci's commitment to holding these two aspects as inseparable - that true healing and justice require both inner work and outer change. We explore some challenging questions: How can we navigate conversations around Palestine and Gaza with our clients in a way that is grounded in compassion and truth? How do we ensure that transformational modalities don't inadvertently reinforce passivity in the face of injustice, but rather empower us to create change? What are the key distinctions between coaching and therapy, and how can we discern our realm of competency as practitioners?

Staci Haines is a pioneer in the field of politicized somatics and trauma healing. For over three decades, Staci has been dedicated to bridging personal and social transformation, guided by the belief that we cannot have one without the other. As the co-founder of generative somatics and a senior teacher at the Strozzi Institute, she brings a depth of wisdom and experience to her work supporting individuals and movements in healing trauma and embodying transformative change. 

• 02:43 - Opening
• 05:03 - Staci's roots: personal + systemic transformation
• 12:32 - The power of somatics in social change work
• 17:58 - How we're showing up for Palestine
• 27:54 - How do we move beyond individualism in healing and coaching
• 36:09 - Coaching to challenge the status quo, not to cope with It
• 39:43 - Imagining new credentialing orgs for politicized coaching/healing
• 59:25 - Staci's sources of joy
• 1:04:22 - Closing

• Generative somatics (organization co-founded by Staci Haines)
• Strozzi Institute (Staci Haines is a senior teacher here)
• The Politics of Trauma by Staci Haines (book)
• Just Transition Framework (zine by Movement Generation)
• Sharks in the Time of Saviors (book recommended by Staci Haines)

• Stacihaines.com (Staci Haines' professional website)
• Instagram @stacikhaines

• Episode 5 with Kazu Haga: Spiritually Grounded Activism

• WiderRoots.com - Join the newsletter for more resources on personal + systemic transformation
• @WiderRootsPod - Follow the podcast on Instagram to get a peek behind the scenes
• Leave a rating and review on Apple Podcasts to help others find this show
• If you’re interested in coaching with Jeremy, reach out on his coaching website

I’d love to hear how this episode resonated with you or any suggestions for future topics/guests. You can email me at [email protected].

“Uncertainty inherently means that possibility exists. Possibility for all sorts of things. For the darkest fantasies and fears that I have and for the most beautiful. And my life is a vote in the direction of a possibility, and I'm going to give myself to the one I want.”

Check out the episode page for the transcript and the full list of the resources mentioned in this episode: https://widerroots.com/7 

In this conversation with Jess Serrante, we dive into the teachings of Joanna Macy and explore how they can support us in our work for social change. I was particularly moved by our discussion on the role of heartbreak in activism and coaching. We asked, what if more healing modalities and spiritual paths helped us get in touch with our pain for the world as a catalyst for discovering our unique contribution? Jess shares powerful insights from her new podcast, "We Are The Great Turning," (including previews of unreleased episodes!)

We also grapple with the question of hope in the face of overwhelming challenges like climate change. When despair creeps in, what can we draw upon that's more stable than the fluctuations of hope? Throughout our conversation, we touch on the importance of grounding our activism in our love for the world, and how Joanna's teachings can help us do that.

Jess Serrante is a dear friend of mine and a longtime climate activist who has worked with groups like Greenpeace, Rainforest Action Network, and Sunrise Movement. She’s a coach, facilitator, and now a podcaster!

Subscribe to We Are The Great Turning on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Pocket Casts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 03:02 - The dream Joanna & Jess had for this project
• 15:39 - Heartbreak and honoring our pain for the world
• 23:59 - Clip from Joanna Macy: What if my pain for the world overwhelms me?
• 28:58 - Clip from Joanna Macy: Our pain is sacred
• 35:34 - Heartbreak guiding us to our calling
• 44:25 - Examining Hope (and other places to find our motivation)
• 53:36 - Clip from Joanna Macy: Whistling in the dark to cheer ourselves up
• 1:02:51 - Jess' sources of nourishment
• 1:04:46 - Closing

• We Are The Great Turning Podcast website
• Active Hope by Joanna Macy (book)
• The Work That Reconnects
• Video of Joanna Macy: “The knife edge of uncertainty”
• Parable of The Sower by Octavia Butler (book)
• Rebecca Solnit quote: “Hope is not a lottery ticket you can sit on the sofa and clutch, feeling lucky. It is an axe you break down doors with in an emergency"

• Coaching website: JessSerrante.com
• Instagram: @jess_serrante

• WiderRoots.com - Join the newsletter for more resources on personal + systemic transformation

“My starting point is less about agitating for change and more about empowering people to believe that they can be actors in their own lives. We fundamentally believe that everyone has a stake in climate change, that everyone can make, can affect change around it.”

Check out the episode page for the transcript and a full list of the resources mentioned in this episode: https://widerroots.com/6 

Today's episode features Charly Cox, author of the book "Climate Change Coaching."

In this conversation, Charly's approach to holding a systemic view stands out. She not only believes in our client's ability to change but also in the system's ability to change. Her coaching helps clients see their situation from this broader perspective. Charly shares her story about realizing that coaches don't have to be "neutral" and can bring their own values forward in their work.

Some background on Charly Cox and her work: She founded an organization called The Climate Change Coaches, which focuses on empowering climate leaders with coaching skills. Their climate coaching approach helps leaders and individuals find their unique role in addressing the climate crisis. It motivates them to take action and enact behavior change at the personal, organizational, and systemic levels.

• 01:39 - Charly Cox's Journey to Climate Change Coaching
• 06:20 - Bridging Climate and Coaching
• 13:48 - The Unique Approach of Climate Change Coaching
• 20:26 - "Having an agenda" vs living your values as a coach
• 32:39 - Charly’s sources of nourishment
• 34:42 - Closing

• The Climate Change Coaches (the organization Charly founded)
• Climate Change Coaching by Charly Cox (book)
• Terra.Do
• The Uninhabitable Earth by David Wallace-Wells (book)
• Acceptance and Commitment Therapy
• Joanna Macy
• Margaret Wheatley
• Eco-Dharma by David Loy (book)
• We Are The Great Turning (podcast with Jess Serrante)
• Climate Change Coaching Mastery course
• Green Transition Coach Course

• The Climate Change Coaches
• Charly Cox on LinkedIn

• WiderRoots.com - Join the newsletter for more resources on personal + systemic transformation
• @WiderRootsPod - Follow the podcast on Instagram to get a peek behind the scenes
• Leave a rating and review on Apple Podcasts to help others find this show
• Connect with Jeremy on his coaching website

I’d love to hear how this episode resonated with you or any suggestions for future topics/guests. You can email me at [email protected].

“Can we actually lead with fierceness and the vulnerability of saying, I'm not here because I hate you. I'm actually here because I love you. I'm here because I love the sanctity of life and beauty, and those things are being destroyed all over our ecosystem.”

Check out the episode page for the transcript and a full list of the resources mentioned in this episode: https://widerroots.com/5

Today’s episode is with Kazu Haga, a nonviolence trainer in the lineage of Dr. King, based in Oakland who's been involved in social change movements since he was 17. He leads trainings for youth, incarcerated populations, and activists. He's the author of Healing Resistance: A Radically Different Response to Harm.

In this conversation, Kazu and I explore how to bring more spiritually grounded practice into our social change movements. I appreciated his invitation for us to think about how we can bring an energy of opening things up, even if outwardly we're doing direct actions that are shutting things down. He also shares his perspective that much of the injustice we witness is actually a manifestation of unhealed wounds, both at the individual level and the societal level. And I particularly loved the part of this conversation where we talked about leading from heartbreak and vulnerability as a way to create connection, especially during conflict.

• 03:24 - Kazu's spiritual lineage and politicization through nonviolence
• 07:51 - Opening things up spiritually while shutting them down tactically
• 14:38 - Exploring trauma healing as a modality for social change
• 22:43 - The necessity of deep practice in movements
• 26:07 - Allowing messiness as we learn to hold conflict
• 33:56 - Breaking up with "cancel culture" and creating deep belonging
• 37:51 - We need skills to not only name harm, but repair it
• 46:45 - Embracing complexity over black-and-white thinking
• 50:08 - Anekāntavāda: Holding multiple truths
• 53:06 - Finding beauty in challenging times
• 54:55 - Nourishment: Hospicing Modernity & unplugged time

• Healing Resistance (book by Kazu Haga)
• Fierce Vulnerability (upcoming book by Kazu Haga, scheduled for early 2025)
• A Force More Powerful (documentary about nonviolent movements)
• Ayni Institute
• Building Belonging (organization)
• Prentice Hemphill
• Hospicing Modernity (book)
• Movement Generation
• Thich Nhat Hanh
• Anekāntavāda: Holding multiple truths (principle form Jainism)
• Canticle Farm (community in Oakland)

• KazuHaga.com (join his email list)

• Ep. 2 - Making space for imperfection in activist spaces (w/ Mazin Jamal)

• WiderRoots.com - Join the newsletter for more resources on personal + systemic transformation
• @WiderRootsPod - Follow the podcast on Instagram to get a peek behind the scenes
• Leave a rating and review on Apple Podcasts to help others find this show.
• Connect with Jeremy on his coaching website.

I’d love to hear how this episode resonated with you or any suggestions for future topics/guests. You can email me at [email protected].

“Healing doesn't look like getting back to the way things were before, the way things were before made you sick.”

Noëlle Janka is a politicized career and healing coach dedicated to supporting social change leaders. For the past decade, she has brought together her personal experience navigating chronic illness with her passion for social justice and transforming systems of oppression. Noëlle recently published her book, Rebel Healing: Transforming Ourselves and the Systems that Make Us Sick.

In this conversation, Noëlle shares concrete ways coaches can support social change leaders to reconnect with their bodies, intuition, and a sense of interconnectedness. We explore how coaching can help prevent burnout by focusing not just on doing more, but on what needs to stop. And Noëlle opens up about embracing her role as a healer within social movements and how she navigates the tension between one-on-one work and large-scale transformation.

Check out the episode page for the transcript and the full list of the resources mentioned in this episode: https://widerroots.com/4 

• 02:04 - The Root Cause: What inspired you to write Rebel Healing?
• 06:41 - Doing work for justice with a more regulated nervous system
• 13:45 - Preventing burnout: Coaching can be about doing less, not more
• 17:23 - Healing: 30% repair, 70% transformation
• 21:51 - Serving 1-on-1: Embracing the role of healer within social movements
• 28:28 - Coaching Technique: Reconnecting with body wisdom and intuition in coaching
• 34:25 - Noëlle's sources of inspiration
• 36:52 - Closing

• Rebel Healing: Transforming Ourselves and the Systems that Make Us Sick (Book by Noëlle Janka)
• Liberated to the Bone: History's Body's Futures (Book by Susan Rappo)
• Deepa Iyer's Social Change Map
• Microactivism: How You Can Make a Difference in the World Without a Bullhorn (Book by Omkari Williams)
• Strozzi Institute (Somatic coach training program)
• @CoachJenniGrover - For folks with health challenges and a crafty side
• Chronic Babe 101: How to Live an Awesome Life with Chronic Illness (Book by Jenni Grover)
• Girl, Woman, Other (Book by Bernadine Evaristo)
• Wildchoir (Spiritual Social Change Choir Music)
• Black Voters Matter Fund
• Emergent Strategy Ideation Institute with adrienne maree brown

• Noëlle Janka’s Website
• @NoelleJanka on Instagram
• Noëlle Janka on LinkedIn

• WiderRoots.com - Join the newsletter for more resources on personal + systemic transformation
• @WiderRootsPod - Follow the podcast on Instagram to get a peek behind the scenes
• Leave a rating and review on Apple Podcasts to help others find this show
• Connect with Jeremy on his coaching website

I’d love to hear how this episode resonated with you or any suggestions for future topics/guests. You can email me at [email protected].

“I think if people don't change by shame or blame or forcing them into things, I think they change because they have a vision of the world they want.”

In this episode, I get to talk with Dara Silverman, a white queer Jewish consultant, somatic coach, and trainer with over 20 years with organizations and movements for social, racial, economic, and gender justice. Dara was the founding director of Showing Up for Racial Justice (SURJ), an organization bringing together white folks working for racial and economic justice. She shares insights into supporting clients around the ongoing genocide in Gaza. We discuss how politicized coaches can hold the principle of “not having an agenda for clients” while still bringing in their political views. Dara also shares how white coaches and facilitators committed to systemic change can integrate anti-racism into our work for change.

Check out the episode page for the transcript and the full list of the resources mentioned in this episode: https://widerroots.com/3 

• 02:28 - Dara's background
• 08:22 - Coaching clients around Gaza
• 12:13 - Holding "not having an agenda" while being politicized
• 21:03 - Relaxed, Dignified, and Accountable: Supporting white folks to show up for racial justice
• 26:30 - The role of coaching in movement spaces
• 33:28 - Dara's coaching growth area
• 35:21 - Dara's sources of nourishment

• Showing Up for Racial Justice (organization)
• Strozzi Institute (coach training training program)
• generative somatics (somatics training)
• Leadership That Works, Coaching for Transformation (coaching program, now only in India)
• Black Leadership for Organizing and Dignity (organization)
• The Embodiment Institute (organization)
• Coaching for Healing Justice and Liberation (coach training program)
• Nervous by Jen Soriano (book)
• Fargo (TV series)
• Handsome (podcast)

• Website: DaraSilverman.com for upcoming courses and resources.
• Opening to Freedom: Embodied Facilitation for White Folks - the year-long program that Dara discussed in the episode. Register by March 25, 2024.
• Weekly online somatic practice group
• Instagram: Follow @darasilver
• LinkedIn: Dara Silverman

• WiderRoots.com - Join the newsletter for more resources on personal + systemic transformation
• @WiderRootsPod - Follow the podcast on Instagram to get a peek behind the scenes
• Leave a rating and review on Apple Podcasts to help others find this show
• Connect with Jeremy on his coaching website

If you have suggestions for topics/guests, please email [email protected].

“So how can we create such rich belonging, that there's room to challenge each other without fearing that we're going to be kicked out of the group?”

In this episode, we’ll be exploring that question and many other questions about justice, equity, diversity, and inclusion (JEDI) with Mazin Jamal, co-founder of Holistic Underground. We dive into how we stay grounded as facilitators when we’re supporting groups to look at race, privilege, and equity.

Check out the episode page for the transcript and all the resources related to this episode: https://widerroots.com/2

• Bringing Levity: Use humor and lightness when dealing with weighty topics to help keep things in perspective. This allows the group to stay regulated and think clearly. [00:10:09]
• Orienting Toward Love and Liberation: Come from a place of care and freedom rather than just fixing problems. This creates a generosity of spirit that is more sustainable.
• Keeping Groups Regulated: Help everyone stay grounded and resourced rather than reactive. This allows for cooperation and completion of the necessary conversations. [00:15:08]
• Grounding in Shared Vision and Values: Keep bringing it back to the “eyes on the prize” and the shared care. This connects to the deeper reasons people are engaged.
• Living the Change We Wish to See: Model the kind of community we want to build in how we organize and work together. [00:21:25]
• Making Space for Imperfection and Redemption: Have compassion for our own and others’ humanity. This reduces defensive othering when we all accept we are on a journey. [00:26:25]
• Developing ancestral spiritual cleansing practices: Use techniques grounded in one's ancestry to energetically care for oneself when dealing with heavy topics over time. [00:37:14]
• Helping People Find Their Niche: Support folks in locating the intersection of their experiences, skills, and passions so they can sustainably contribute over the long haul.

• This Is An Uprising - Book about the momentum organizing model, where Jeremy first learned about Ghandi’s idea of “prefigurative” organizing (living the world we want to see now).
• Characteristics of White Supremacy Culture - Mazin mentions this list indirectly when he brings up perfectionism.
• New Blue Sun - Andre 3000's new flute album
• The Emerald Podcast
• The Prophet by Kahlil Gibran

• Holistic Underground - JEDI consulting, fiscal sponsorship, and impact incubator for spiritual innovation
• EmbraceCommunity.co - Community events in the Bay Area that Mazin helps organize.
• @mazinjamal_ - Mazin on Instagram

• WiderRoots.com - Join the newsletter for more resources on personal + systemic transformation
• @WiderRootsPod - Follow the podcast on Instagram to get a peek behind the scenes
• Leave a rating and review on Apple Podcasts to help others find this show!

Connect with Jeremy on his coaching website.