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  • Episode 4: Memories of Eden, part 1

    With ancient geography, forgotten biology, and an uninvited guest with a past, this episode is the story of Eden.

    WiderBible, Episode 4: Memories of Eden, part 1
    Adam Shull

    All the quotes from the Bible for the main story were were taken from the English Standard Version or the New King James Version. For the other sources, including commentaries, websites, or articles, you can find links and references in the show notes below in the order they appeared. If you have any questions, there’s a link to contact me at the bottom of the page.

    Show notes:

    1. For the background of the story of Atlantis, see here. For the full text of Timaeus and Critias see here and here respectively. For more about Solon, the Athenian statesman, see here. For more about Plato, see here. For connecting the “Pillars of Hercules” with the modern Strait of Gibraltar, see here.

    2. Plato says the island was 3000 stadia long by 2000 stadia wide. If you assume the island was elliptical, that gives it an area of 62,000 - 92,000 square miles (depending on the length of the stadia), or somewhere around the size of the island of Great Britain. For the size of Atlantis according to Plato, see here. For the size of Great Britain, see here. For the conversion between stadia and feet, see this definition.

    3. For the location of the capitol of Atlantis relative to the shore, Critias states that the channel running from the shore to the capitol city was 50 stadia. According to this definition, a Greek stadia varied between 607 and 738 feet making the canal 5.75 to 7 miles long.

    4. Critias states that the outer wall was covered in brass, and the middle wall in tin, but it says the inner wall “flashed with the red light of orichalcum.” According to the story, orichalcum was dug out of the earth and was more precious than anything except gold. If it existed, no one knows what orichalcum was. Since the other walls were covered in protective metal, the inner wall probably was too, but that’s speculation. For the references to orichalcum in Critias, see here.

    5. For more on the Hyperboreans, see here. For more on Herodotus, see here.

    6. For the mythological background of Lyonesse, the lost city, see here.

    7. For the French lost city of Ys, see here and here.

    8. Originally the story of El Dorado, or “the gilded one” was was about a ruler in South America who covered himself in gold dust before rinsing in a lake while his subjects threw in jewels and golden objects. Over time the story turned into a tale about a country of gold. The story of El Dorado is recent enough that we still have some details of how it developed over time, and it gives us some insight into how stories change when they are told and embellished. For more on El Dorado, see here.

    9. For more on Francisco de Orellana, see here. His tales of the female warriors he met on the expedition ultimately led to the region being named after the warrior women from Greek mythology, the Amazons, as mentioned here.

    10. For more on recent discoveries of the civilization that used to live in the Amazon basin, see here as well as comments on pg. 173, here about extensive roadways and canals.

    11. Modern scholars think Plato made up everything about Atlantis as a way of illustrating his philosophy. It doesn’t help that Plato is the only source for any references to Atlantis. For the origin of the Atlantis story, see here and here. For more on Plato and Atlantis, see here.

    12. Depending on who you ask, the word “Eden” might be from a Mesopotamian word for “plain,” as in the “Great Plains,” or from a couple of Hebrew words that mean “bliss” or “delight.” For more on the etymology, see Barker, K. L. (2002) NIV Study Bible. Genesis 2:8, note. Zondervan.

    13. For details on the Euphrates, see Barker, K. L. (2002) NIV Study Bible. Genesis 2:14, note. Zondervan. and Horn, S. H. (1979). In The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Dictionary (pp. 345–346). Review and Herald Publishing Association.

    14. For lack of further mentions of “Pishon” elsewhere in the Bible, see Nichol, F. D. (Ed.). (1978). The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary (Vol. 1, p. 224). Review and Herald Publishing Association.

    15. For “Pishon” meaning “gusher” see see Barker, K. L. (2002) NIV Study Bible. Genesis 2:11, note. Zondervan.

    16. For references to “Havilah,” see Horn, S. H. (1979). In The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Dictionary (p. 464). Review and Herald Publishing Association.

    17. What “onyx” was in the Bible isn’t really clear, but it was used as a gem in the Jewish High Priest’s garments. For more, see Horn, S. H. (1979). In The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Dictionary (p. 815). Review and Herald Publishing Association.

    18. It’s unclear if the bdellium mentioned in Havilah is the same as the bdellium mentioned by the Roman Naturalist Pliny the Elder. In Pliny’s day, bdellium came from India, Arabia, and Persia, but destruction and rearrangement during the Flood in Genesis 8 means that today’s geography probably bears little resemblance to the “Havilah” mentioned in this part of Genesis. Later in the Bible, Manna is compared to bdellium (Numbers 11:7). For more information, see Nichol, F. D. (Ed.). (1978). The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary (Vol. 1, p. 224). Review and Herald Publishing Association, Easton, M. G. (1893). In Easton’s Bible dictionary. New York: Harper & Brothers., as well as here and here.

    19. For “Gihon” meaning “spurter,” see Barker, K. L. (2002) NIV Study Bible. Genesis 2:13, note. Zondervan.

    20. For more on the Gihon spring outside Jerusalem (not the same as the river from the Garden of Eden) see Horn, S. H. (1979). In The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Dictionary (p. 420). Review and Herald Publishing Association.

    21. For the location of “Cush” see Horn, S. H. (1979). In The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Dictionary (p. 420). Review and Herald Publishing Association.

    22. If you look at the quote about the Pishon and Gihon in Genesis 2:10-14, they may have been “lost” rivers even when Genesis was written. Both the Pishon and Gihon “flowed” (past tense), while the Tigris “flows.”

    23. For possible locations of the Pishon and Gihon, see Barker, K. L. (2002) NIV Study Bible. Genesis 2:11, note and Genesis 2:13, note. Zondervan.

    24. For details about Josephus, see here.

    25. For Josephus thinking the Pishon was the Ganges, see here.

    26. For alternative suggestions about the locations of the Pishon and Gihon, see Nichol, F. D. (Ed.). (1978). The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary (Vol. 1, p. 224). Review and Herald Publishing Association.

    27. For a map of the Tigris and Euphrates river system, see here.

    28. For the river formed by the last 120 miles of the Tigris and Euphrates, where they merge before reaching the Persian Gulf, see here.

    29. For a map of the Tigris and Euphrates, see here.

    30. The verse in Genesis states that the Tigris flowed east of Assyria. This is referring to the Tigris as it exists now, and the Assyrian empire as it existed around three-thousand years ago. This river bed is probably not the same as the one flowing from Eden but for one reason or another, it had the same name after the Flood. For a map of the Assyrian empire, see here.

    31. Actually, if you dig into the names a of the rivers a little bit more, the four rivers were originally called the Pishon, Gihon, Hiddegel, and Perat. If we didn’t have a paper trail through history showing that “Hiddegel” was later called “Idiglat” and the “Idiglat” was later named the “Tigris,” or, that the “Perat,” or “great river,” was called the “Uruttu” for a while before being renamed the “Euphrates,” then we would have lost track of all the rivers Genesis describes and wouldn’t have the names of any of them on our maps today. For the various names the Tigris and Euphrates have used through history, see Bauer, Susan Wise. The History of the Ancient World: From the Earliest Accounts to the Fall of Rome (Kindle Locations 14608-14611). W. W. Norton & Company. Kindle Edition.

    32. Genesis 2:8 says that God planted Eden “in the east,” but what this means is unclear. Since Moses lived around the Sinai peninsula, this would probably be a reference to a location to the east of where he was writing, or around what we think of as Mesopotamia. We don’t know what led Moses to say that’s where the Garden of Eden used to be. With the rearranging of the Earth during the Flood, the location was either based upon tradition or given to Moses by divine revelation. Since the post-Flood civilization began in Mesopotamia, people may have thought that Noah’s ark grounded on a mountain near where it started, and that it’s starting place was near where the Garden of Eden used to be, but this is speculation.

    33. For the traditional location of the Garden of Eden near where the Tigris and Euphrates meet, see Barker, K. L. (2002) NIV Study Bible. Genesis 2:8, note. Zondervan.

    34. Why river names were chosen 4500 years ago is speculation, but I wonder if marketing had something to do with it. If you had the story of a place that used to exist that was famous for its gold, gems, and perfume, you might name your new colony that just to gain the reputation. It’s a little like calling the place “Greenland” rather than “Snow-and-glacier-land.” The same thing could be said of the freshwater spring outside Jerusalem. Perhaps they were just calling it a “spurter,” but maybe they also wanted people to think their water was just as good as the water that used to flow from the Garden of Eden.

    35. For the evidence of large animals listed below, some of them would have been fossilized after the Flood rather than during it, so we don’t know if their large size was due to adaptations to conditions after the Flood or representative of how large they had been in the world before the Flood.

    36. For the timeline of when the giant dragonfly (technically griffinfly) fossil was discovered, see here, for the location, see here, and for the wingspan, see here. For the wingspan of the largest modern dragonfly, see here.

    37. The sea turtle that was about 12 feet long can be found here, though this says 11 feet. Even so, the largest example of Archelon is in Vienna, and it measures about 15 feet from tip to tail according to this article. This appears to be a pre-Flood fossil based on reference in the Britannica article (linked above) to the Cretaceous and an alignment between those ages and a creationist model found here.

    38. For the recent discovery of large penguin leg bones, see this article that references the paper found here which is said to come from Paleocene strata that would be during the middle of the Flood according to creationist chart here.

    39. For the discovery of the bones of the large bird at the Charleston Airport in 1983 and images of the recreated skeleton along with the silhouette of a human for scale and a claim that the bird comes from the Eocene, see here. That site gives the wing span as 20-24 feet, but the paper here lists 6.4m which is just under 21 feet as an estimate along with claiming the bones are from the Oligocene era. For comparison, the largest living bird, given here, is a type of albatross with a confirmed wingspan of 3.63m or just under 12 feet. The creationist chart here gives both the Eocene and Oligocene as occurring during the time the waters of the Flood were receding.

    40. For the dinosaur skeleton found in the American Museum of Natural History, see here that gives a length of 122 feet and 2017 as the year it was named. For the femur being over seven feet long, see here where the length is given as 2.38 meters. Both of those sources put the find as old enough to be in the middle Flood period according to the creationist chart here.

    41. For a recent dinosaur that, as a of 2016, contends for the largest ever found, see articles here and here.

    42. In this whole discussion of the fossils we find of animals before the Flood, it’s important to remember that the animals we reconstruct are based on incomplete information. We could have fossils of the whole skeleton of one animal, while for another we’re extrapolating from only a few small parts. It’s hard to know. Given this uncertainty, the conclusions we draw about their size, let alone their lifestyle and habits, should be taken with a grain of salt.

    43. For the original vegetarian diet of both people and animals, see Barker, K. L. (2002) NIV Study Bible. Genesis 1:29-30, note. Zondervan.

    44. For examples of large tree species, see here.

    45. For facts on the General Sherman and other sequoias, see here, here, and here.

    46. For petrified wood in Ecuador, see here.

    47. For petrified wood in Greece, see here.

    48. For a list of US sites with petrified wood, see here.

    49. For a petrified forest in Germany, see here.

    50. For a petrified forest in New South Wales, Australia, see here.

    51. For evidence of tall trees in Utah, see here.

    52. For the size of trees in Florissant, Colorado, see here.

    53. For petrified trees in Argentina, see here.

    54. For heights of trees that used to exist in Thailand, see here.

    55. The suggestion that these forests were extensive in the world Eden was a part of is speculation. It’s hard to make a clear case for the extent of ancient forests or the sizes of trees that were in them. We have some evidence of large trees in different places around the world, but the data is limited and there is no clear evidence that the trees were bigger than ones we have today, only that the world Eden was a part of may have had an environment that supported growing big trees in more places based on how the fossils are spread out around the world.

    56. For the dimensions of the Statue of Liberty, see here.

    57. The fact that Adam and Eve had to eat from the Tree of Life in order to live forever is clear from Genesis 3:22. Some commentators see this as a measure of faith, that Adam and Eve had to look to something external, to some gift of God, for life. Immortality wasn’t an intrinsic part of their nature. For more, see Easton, M. G. (1893). In Easton’s Bible dictionary. New York: Harper & Brothers.

    58. There isn’t a lot of information on the Tree of Life in the Bible. There are some references here in Genesis (Genesis 2:9, some in Proverbs (Proverbs 11:30, Proverbs 13:12) where it is used metaphorically, and some in Revelation (Revelation 22:1-2) that describes the Tree of Life on a new Earth. I assumed the "new" Tree of Life in Revelation is the same, or at least very similar, to the original Tree of Life discussed in Genesis.

    59. For more on the Garden of the Hesperides, see this article about Pausanias and here for what Pausanias wrote.

    60. At first glance, it might not seem like the Babylonian cylinder of a Palm tree is a picture of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, but look at the whole picture here before you decide.

    61. For more on the “Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil” depicted as a Mulberry tree in Chinese history, see Nelson, E.R., Broadberry, R.E. (1997) God’s Promise to the Chinese. (pg. 36).

    62. For the timelines of Moses, Isaiah, and Ezekiel, see “Moses,” “Isaiah,” and “Ezekiel” in Easton, M. G. (1893). In Easton’s Bible dictionary. New York: Harper & Brothers.

    63. One opinion about the passage in Isaiah suggests that Isaiah (and perhaps Ezekiel as well) is just using figurative language to refer to human kings (see Barker, K. L. (2002) NIV Study Bible. Isaiah 14:12-15, note and Ezekiel 28:12-19, notes. Zondervan.). On the other hand, Christians were already interpreting the Isaiah passage as referring to something more significant than an analogy before 300 AD. For more, see Nichol, F. D. (Ed.). (1977). The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary (Vol. 4, p. 675). Review and Herald Publishing Association. as well as here. For a fuller discussion of the question, see From Lucifer to Satan.

    64. The gems Ezekiel lists as covering the “guardian cherub” are 9 of the 12 jewels used for the Jewish high priest (Exodus 28:17-20 and Exodus 39:8-14), emphasizing the closeness that once existed between Lucifer and God in heaven. For more, see Nichol, F. D. (Ed.). (1977). The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary (Vol. 4, p. 676). Review and Herald Publishing Association.

    65. I gave a paraphrase of the passage from Ezekiel. If you want the text word-for-word, see Ezekiel 28:12-17.

    66. In the paraphrase of Ezekiel 28:13, I left out the phrase, “You were in Eden, the Garden of God.” This would seem to make a pretty good argument for connecting this story of the origin of evil to the Garden of Eden, but at least one commentary suggests the phrase should be symbolic of heaven due to context and the fact that the angel was still perfect. I can see it both ways. Ezekiel might be referring to heaven, since the angel was dressed in gems, or he could be making a side comment about where the angel would soon be (i.e. the angel would later be in Eden) to help the audience know who was being described. I left the comment out to avoid confusing things too much. For specifics, see Nichol, F. D. (Ed.). (1977). The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary (Vol. 4, pp. 675–676). Review and Herald Publishing Association.

    67. For a sense of how close this angel once was to God, the phrase “guardian cherub” brings to mind the cherubs that were set over the Ark of the Covenant, God’s throne on Earth, in the Jewish Temple. Ezekiel is saying that this being was one of those cherubs, right next to the throne of God, in heaven. See Nichol, The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary (Vol. 4, p. 675). Review and Herald Publishing Association.

    68. To get a better idea of how bright Lucifer was, note that the same name, “light bearer” is used to describe Christ in 2 Peter 1:19. John also refers to Christ this way in Revelation 22:16. This gives a sense of how high Lucifer was in heaven and how close he was to God. For more, see Nichol, F. D. (Ed.). (1977). The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary (Vol. 4, pp. 170–171). Review and Herald Publishing Association.

    69. For more on the “mountain” analogy from Isaiah and the Babylonian myth about a mountain in the north, see Nichol, F. D. (Ed.). (1977). The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary (Vol. 4, p. 171). For Ezekiel, see The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary (Vol 4, p. 675). Review and Herald Publishing Association. You can also see this idea in Psalms 48:2.

    70. The “trade” referenced in Ezekiel 28:16 refers to trading in goods or in words (slandering). If the passage is taken as referring to the king of Tyre, trading in “goods” fits. If it is taken as referring to the guardian cherub in heaven, the definition of “slander” seems to fit better. For more, see Andrews Study Bible (2010) Ezekiel 28:16, note.

    71. As evidence that Lucifer’s ultimate rebellion was more than just himself, you can see references in see 2 Peter 2:4 and Jude 6 to other angels. Revelation 12:4 makes reference to a dragon sweeping a third of the stars from heaven, leading some to suspect that a full third of the angels in heaven followed Lucifer and were expelled with him, while others think it refers symbolically to the Romans taking away Jewish kingship, one of the three branches of their government. For more, see Nichol, F. D. (Ed.). (1980). The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary (Vol. 7, pp. 809–810). Review and Herald Publishing Association.

    72. While it is literally true that God made the devil, it’s more accurate to say that God made a perfect angel, and by choice, that angel changed into the devil on his own. For more, see Nichol, F. D. (Ed.). (1977). The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary (Vol. 4, p. 675). Review and Herald Publishing Association.

    73. Update: Some of the audio and a show note related to fossils of beavers and sea turtles was given a minor update on 11/1/2019 to fix a couple of details.

      Update: I removed an audio clip on 11/6/2019 related to the size of trees found in Colorado after catching an error that mistook circumference for diameter and added a footnote making it clear that any comments about the extent of big tree forests that used to exist on the Earth of the past is speculation.

      Update: On 3/19/2025 I modified the introduction paragraph and updated links to Bible copyright information.

      Update: On 4/3/2025 I updated the audio and some show notes regarding large animals we find buried in the ground that may be representative of animals living before the Flood. Some of these animals — such as large elephant-like skeletons, giant beavers, and giant sloths — are likely more representative of animals living in the Ice Age after the Flood who may have grown large as part of their adapting to live in that world rather than examples of what animals might have been like before the Flood as suggested here. In addition, I found that some of my sources for that material was less reliable than I had thought. First, regarding elephants, the paper I used to support the claim that elephants used to be over 15 feet tall (found here) not only relies on extremes to get to that size, but the data for that extreme was based on an unverified bone measurement published 1834 (as noted on pg. 559 in that source with the conclusion on the possible size noted on pg. 562. As for the sloths, they definitely grew quite large (see here) with the definition here giving them as located in Pliocene or Pleistocene layers which the creationist understanding chart here gives as end and post-Flood layers. In addition to those changes, I updated notes on the other large animal examples with references to show that they are likely examples of animals buried in the Flood and therefore more likely to represent what animals were like before the Flood. These animals would still have adapted some in the time between creation and the Flood, but it is the best glimpse we have of what that world was like. I also modified what I said about the large penguin, large-wingspan bird, and dinosaur fossils to correct errors in the original statements and updated the associated show notes.

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      A Forgotten History, part 2
      Memories of Eden, part 2
      29 min
    74. Episode 3: A Forgotten History, part 2

      The history Moses gives at the start of Genesis doesn’t play well with others, but what makes anyone think Moses’ version is right?

      WiderBible, Episode 3: A Forgotten History, part 2
      Adam Shull

      This episode has more from Genesis 1-2 with background details from the book of Exodus. All the quotes from the Bible for the main story were were taken from the English Standard Version or the New King James Version. For the other sources, including commentaries, websites, or articles, you can find links and references in the show notes below in the order they appeared. If you can’t find a topic, try searching through the show notes from Episode 2: A Forgotten History, part 1 as the comment in this half of the show may have been covered by a show note listed there. If you have any questions, there’s a place to contact me at the bottom of the page.

      Show notes:

      1. For some background on Jewish theories about where the lights came from on Day 1 and Day 4, see here.

      2. For God being light, see 1 John 1:5 and for God giving light in the New Jerusalem, see Revelation 21:23.

      3. For Egyptian sun worship details, see here and here.

      4. For Babylonian connections to moon worship, see references in Bauer, Susan Wise. The History of the Ancient World: From the Earliest Accounts to the Fall of Rome . W. W. Norton & Company. Kindle Edition. Locations 1995 and 2385 - 2404.

      5. Whether Babylon provides the earliest examples of astrology is unclear. It does provide very early examples. See more, here.

      6. For the Babylonian use of stars for astrology, God did say the stars were to be used for “signs,” but this wasn’t a reference to human destinies as both Jeremiah and Isaiah make clear. For more see Nichol, F. D. (Ed.). (1978). The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary (Vol. 1, pp. 212–213). Review and Herald Publishing Association.

      7. For more on the background of astrology, see here.

      8. For God naming things during creation, see Barker, K. L. (2002) NIV Study Bible. Genesis 1:5, note. Zondervan.

      9. For Calvin and Luther’s idea that the fish and birds were created at the same time because they are related, see Nichol, F. D. (Ed.). (1978). The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary (Vol. 1, p. 214). Review and Herald Publishing Association.

      10. For the different words regarding “life” that Moses used to describe plants and animals, see Nichol, F. D. (Ed.). (1978). The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary (Vol. 1, p. 213). Review and Herald Publishing Association.

      11. The word for “whale” also means “serpent” in Exodus 7:9, 10, 12 and “dragon” in Isaiah 51:9 and Ezekiel 29:3. In this reference in Genesis it could be referring to a “sea creature” as in Pslams 148:7. From Nichol, F. D. (Ed.). (1978). The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary (Vol. 1, p. 214). Review and Herald Publishing Association.

      12. For the association between the Hebrew word for “creatures of the sea” and the local legends, see Barker, K. L. (2002) NIV Study Bible. Genesis 1:21, note. Zondervan.

      13. For more on the Canaanite part-man-part-fish god, see Horn, S. H. (1979). In The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Dictionary (p. 257). Review and Herald Publishing Association.

      14. For more on the Canaanite religion, see sources referenced in the show notes for part 1 of this series that discusses the Baal cycle.

      15. The first time God blessed something is after He made the fish and birds. This further emphasizes the distinction between the animal and plant worlds. For more, see Nichol, F. D. (Ed.). (1978). The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary (Vol. 1, p. 214). Review and Herald Publishing Association.

      16. For more on the categories of animals God specified at creation, see Nichol, F. D. (Ed.). (1978). The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary (Vol. 1, p. 215). Review and Herald Publishing Association.

      17. For more on Mesha and the Moabite stone, see this article.

      18. For more on Nebuchadnezzar, see here and here.

      19. For a timeline of ancient Persian history, see here.

      20. For details on the Behistun inscription showing Darius, see here.

      21. For the parallel between God creating Adam and kings creating images of themselves as monuments, see Barker, K. L. (2002) NIV Study Bible. Genesis 1:26, note. Zondervan.

      22. For other examples in the Bible of people setting up monuments to themselves, see 1 Samuel 15:12 where King Saul did it and 2 Samuel 18:18 where Absalom did it too.

      23. According to Genesis 2:7 and Genesis 2:19, God formed both the animals and man from the “dust of the Earth.” In Hebrew, the word use for “forming” also refers to what a potter or a goldsmith does. For more, see Nichol, F. D. (Ed.). (1978). The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary (Vol. 1, p. 222). Review and Herald Publishing Association.

      24. God declared that Adam would be made in “Our image, in Our likeness.” These “our” references are used as proof for the doctrine of the Trinity, the idea that there are three parts to God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) that are both individual and combined with one another. Here, when Moses uses the word for “God” he almost always uses the plural form while, at the same time, using the singular form of the verb. The Trinity is a pretty involved topic, and one that people tend to debate. It’s probably worth discussing at some point, but well beyond the scope of this episode. For more information see Nichol, F. D. (Ed.). (1978). The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary (Vol. 1, p. 171 and p. 215). Review and Herald Publishing Association.

      25. For a discussion of whether God gave Adam a “soul” or simply made him a “living being” see the discussion in Nichol, F. D. (Ed.). (1978). The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary (Vol. 1, p. 223). Review and Herald Publishing Association.

      26. God stopped naming after Day 3. On Day 4, as mentioned earlier, Moses only describes the sun, moon, and the stars, and on Days 5 and 6, presumably the reason God didn’t name anything is because He was reserving that right for Adam who hadn’t been created yet.

      27. For the importance of names in ancient times, see Nichol, F. D. (Ed.). (1978). The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary (Vol. 1, p. 210). Review and Herald Publishing Association.

      28. For the practice of naming things as a sign of ownership in ancient times, see Barker, K. L. (2002) NIV Study Bible. Genesis 1:5, note. Zondervan.

      29. For more on Columbus discovering and naming things, see here it and here.

      30. For the English changing New Amsterdam to New York, see here. For the city’s brief tenure as New Orange, see here.

      31. If you’re curious why we call the first man “Adam” it’s because, like me, you don’t read ancient Hebrew. In the original language, the world for dust, as in the dust God sculpted, is ‘adamah. For “man” the generic word, the word is ‘adam with a small “a” and for that first man, in English we just capitalize it. For anyone who reads Hebrew, it’s obvious that this is a story of God making the dust come alive. For more, see Andrews Study Bible (2010) Genesis 2:7, note. Andrews University Press.

      32. After creating Adam, God declares that “they” should have “dominion.” The “they” shows that God intended from the start to make a companion for Adam and the “dominion” shows they were meant to be rulers of the world. See Nichol, F. D. (Ed.). (1978). The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary (Vol. 1, p. 216). Review and Herald Publishing Association.

      33. In Genesis 2, it talks about the land before any green plant had sprouted. Instead of a reference to a complete lack of plants, This could be talking about an absence of cultivation, the fact that no one had tilled the ground yet and there was no harvest. See Nichol, F. D. (Ed.). (1978). The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary (Vol. 1, p. 222). Review and Herald Publishing Association.

      34. For this as the only complete story of the creation of woman in the ancient near east, see Barker, K. L. (2002) NIV Study Bible. Genesis 2:18-25, note. Zondervan.

      35. Since parts of the creation story appear in both Genesis 1 and Genesis 2, and Genesis 2 seems to have some differences, people often think they are two different creation stories. Instead, Genesis 2 is just giving more detail. The first chapter is the overview, the second chapter recaps and gives more detail on the part that deals with humans and God. For more explanation on why there seem to be two creation stories, see Nichol, F. D. (Ed.). (1978). The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary (Vol. 1, pp. 221–222). Review and Herald Publishing Association.

      36. For the idea about the rib symbolizing equality between men and women at creation, see Matthew Henry’s commentary here with notes on Genesis 2:21-25.

      37. From the naming-equals-dominion comment given earlier, you could argue that Adam owned Eve because he named her (See Genesis 2:23 and Genesis 3: 20), but that skips over an important detail. If Adam owned Eve, Eve owned Adam too. By using a bone from Adam to symbolically graft the two of them together, they were, in effect, one person, so the ownership discussion is moot. For the naming of Eve, see Barker, K. L. (2002) NIV Study Bible. Genesis 3:20, note. Zondervan.

      38. Ribs regrow after surgery, as noted on p. 83, here. Other common sources for bone grafting materials are from the hip and leg bones as mentioned here. In these cases, one could argue for the use of the rib given the desire to symbolize equality.

      39. For note on why God rested on Day 7, see Barker, K. L. (2002) NIV Study Bible. Genesis 2:2, note. Zondervan.

      40. God was done with all of creation at the end of the seventh day and it was not an ongoing process according to Hebrews 4:3 where God’s work of creation was “finished from the foundation of the world.” See also Nichol, F. D. (Ed.). (1978). The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary (Vol. 1, p. 218). Review and Herald Publishing Association.

      41. For the holiness of the seventh day, the law given at Sinai was perhaps less a statement of new ideas and more as thing to help people not forget things they were already supposed to know. Most of the commandments seem fairly obvious and direct the audience to worship one God and be a moral person in society. The 4th commandment stands out as unusual, but nonetheless important. It was recalled by Isaiah (Isaiah 66:22-23) in the Old Testament and by Luke (Luke 23:54), Matthew (Matthew 24:20) and John in the New Testament, with John noting that the commandments continue beyond the end of the current Earth (Revelation 14:7, 12). See Barker, K. L. (2002) NIV Study Bible. Genesis 2:3, note. Zondervan, and for some details and for the Sabbath as a memorial of creation, see Nichol, F. D. (Ed.). (1978). The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary (Vol. 1, p. 175, p. 221). Review and Herald Publishing Association.

      42. For the story of the manna appearing for the Israelites in the desert, see Exodus 16.

      43. For references to manna in later Israelite history, see Psalms 78:23-25.

      44. It’s true, the plagues in Egypt and the crossing of the Red Sea at the Exodus also would be “proof” of Moses’ God, but it would only be proof of that God’s power, not proof of the history Moses explained. The 40 years of food coming 6 days out of 7 on a continuous cycle, a miracle that lasted 4 decades and kept 2 million people alive, was the proof of the history of the 7 days of creation.

      45. On Day 4 of creation, in Genesis 1:14 God mentions that the astronomical bodies were meant to be used as a calendar for marking off time. It’s unclear if there were “seasons” at creation the way we think of them today. At least one version of the verse suggests “appointed times” is an acceptable alternative translation. In that case, the Jews used months to figure out the “appointed times,” for their national celebrations. See Nichol, F. D. (Ed.). (1978). The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary (Vol. 1, p. 213). Review and Herald Publishing Association.

      46. One suggestion for why Moses refers to each day with the phrase “evening and morning” is that Moses was referring to the times between when God created. God finished creating, and it was an evening and a morning, and then He started creating again. That could be, but it might also just be a way of referring to a complete “day.” Daniel (Daniel 8:14) and Paul (2 Corinthians 11:25) both use similar phrases that are just translated “day.” We count days from midnight to midnight because the Romans counted things that way. In Moses’ time, and for traditional Jews still practicing today, a day began and ended at sunset. Jews count time going from evening to morning, dark to light, night to day. For more on how the Hebrews counted their days, see Nichol, F. D. (Ed.). (1978). The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary (Vol. 1, p. 175, pp. 210-211). Review and Herald Publishing Association.

      47. Weeks and months don’t quite get along. 4 weeks is 28 days but a lunar month is 29.5 days.

      48. For the lack of cosmic cycles that could work as the origin of 7-day rhythms, see here.

      49. Stars can be used to help with a calendar, and often were in ancient times, but they are also great for navigation, being used that way as late as the age of airplanes to navigate across open water. Details of their use in recent times can be found here.

      50. Some might suggest the 7-day “week” came to the Jews from Babylon, but the evidence might suggest the opposite. For the uniqueness of the Jewish week in history, see this article, note 3.

      51. The 7-day week came to the Roman empire in possibly the 2nd century BC according to this article, but the calendar we use today, including the day of rest instead of a market day, is clearly something that came from Christianity into Rome.

      52. There’s some debate over who used a week and how long it was. [This](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/309898157_Seven-day_human_biological_rhythms_An_expedition _in_search_of_their_origin_synchronization_functional_advantage_adaptive_value_and_clinical_relevance) article suggests a 5-day week for the Babylonians while the Romans used clusters of 8-days or 10-days. References cited below suggest different groupings.

      53. For the Romans using 8 day weeks, see here.

      54. For the Egyptian 10 day week, see p. 4, here.

      55. For the ancient Chinese Calendar, see here.

      56. For the Assyrian 5-day week, see here.

      57. For comments about which days were special to the Babylonians, and them being considered “evil” see p. 177 here.

      58. For the Babylonians using a lunar calendar, see here.

      59. For more odd calendars in history, the Roman calendar apparently used to have only 10 normal months of about 30 days, with the rest made up as needed. The Mayan and Aztec system used 13 day weeks together with 18 different 20-day months. The Chinese calendar used 30 day months and normal years, but included six 60-day “cycles,” essentially pairs of months, in the system. For more see here and here.

      60. For effects of the circadian rhythm, see here and here.

      61. For Cicadas hatching on a schedule, see here.

      62. For an example of a non-obvious rhythm in nature, it’s interesting to realize that people used to sleep for 2 sets of 4 hours rather than 8 hours straight before artificial lights shortened the nighttime. For more, see this article.

      63. The 7-day, or circaseptan, rhythms in biology also show up as harmonics, or multiples, of that base frequency. A seizure article noted 2-week cycles in some patients while another article noted half-week cycles.

      64. For the 7-day cycle in mood, see here.

      65. For the effect of a 7-day cycle on heart rate and blood pressure, see this article.

      66. For swelling on a 7-day pattern after some surgeries, see this article, p. 7.

      67. For more on 7-day cycles in 7% to 21% of seizure patients, see this article.

      68. The probability a transplanted organ will be rejected tends to peak in intervals of 6-8 days after transplant. See this article, pg. 7.

      69. For the effect of a 7-day cycle on heart rate and blood pressure, see this article.

      70. For a cancer treatment study looking at how half-week and full-week cycles affect drug efficacy, see here. For timing treatments based on a 7-day cycle, among other biological rhythms, see this article and the mention of chronopharmacology.

      71. For the idea that this 7-day cycle isn’t just because of culture, see references to “endogenous” in this article as well as examples of insects, fish, birds, and mammals that also use this rhythm.

      72. For nature knowing the 7-day week, see reference here.

      73. For the pontifex maximus changing the calendar in Rome, see here.

      74. The French gave up on changing the lengths of seconds, minutes, and hours after 17 months according to this article while the 10-day week lasted longer with the French Republican calendar itself continuing from 1793 to 1806 as mentioned here.

      75. For the Soviet Union’s experiments with the length of the week, see here.

      76. For more on the Westinghouse time capsule, see pages of the book of record see pgs. 5-17 of The Book of Record of the Time Capsule of Cupaloy (1938) Westinghouse Electric and Manufacturing Company. New York.

      77. For the coining of “time capsule” and other famous time capsules, see this article as well as pg. 156 here.

        1. The Rosetta stone gave the key to cracking ancient Egyptian writing, but though it was discovered in 1799, it took another 20 years before people figured out just how hieroglyphics worked.

        2. According to this source, the library of Ashurbanipal was discovered in the 1840s. The tablets discussing the Babylonian stories of creation were found between 1848 and 1876 as mentioned on pg. 1 here.

        3. For the discovery of the story of Baal, see here.

        4. For more on the Babylonian and other stories of creation, see here.

        5. For God speaking rather than competing in creation, see Barker, K. L. (2002) NIV Study Bible. Genesis 1:1, note. Zondervan.

        6. For the gods having to fight for control in other stories besides the one given in the Bible, see Barker, K. L. (2002) NIV Study Bible. Genesis 1:1, note. Zondervan.

        7. For God making the world out of nothing, see Psalms 102:25, Isaiah 40:21-22 and Hebrews 11:3, as well as the Andrews Study Bible (2010) Genesis 1:1, note. Andrews University Press and Nichol, F. D. (Ed.). (1978). The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary (Vol. 1, p. 208, p. 218). Review and Herald Publishing Association.

        8. For the root word behind the term “deep” that Moses used at the start of the story, see Nichol, F. D. (Ed.). (1978). The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary (Vol. 1, p. 209). Review and Herald Publishing Association.

        9. For more on the idea of an eagle “hovering” over it’s nest, see Barker, K. L. (2002) NIV Study Bible. Genesis 1:2, note. Zondervan. For where Moses uses the word again in Deuteronomy 32:11 see Nichol, F. D. (Ed.). (1978). The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary (Vol. 1, p. 209). Review and Herald Publishing Association.

        10. For man as rulers of the world, see Genesis 1:26. For the purpose of the seventh day and the communion of God with man, see Nichol, F. D. (Ed.). (1978). The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary (Vol. 1, pp. 220 - 221, 604 - 605). Review and Herald Publishing Association.

        11. In His day, Moses’ history undermined the religions of Babylon and Egypt. Today, that same story undermines atheism, the belief in no God, polytheism, the belief in many gods, pantheism, the belief that God is a part of nature, gnosticism, the belief that the material world is evil, and materialism, the belief that there is nothing more than the physical world. For a list of the modern systems the Genesis story opposes, see Andrews Study Bible (2010) Genesis 1:1, note. Andrews University Press, and Nichol, F. D. (Ed.). (1978). The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary (Vol. 1, p. 208). Review and Herald Publishing Association. For a definition of gnosticism, see here. For creation in Genesis undermining Gnostic belief, see Andrews Study Bible (2010) Genesis 1:31, note. Andrews University Press. The definition of materialism I used comes from here.

        12. For the perfection of creation, see “very good” in Genesis 1:31 and Nichol, F. D. (Ed.). (1978). The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary (Vol. 1, pp. 217–218). Review and Herald Publishing Association.

        13. Update: Altered some notes and improved the sources used for some information on 12/16/2019.

          Update: On 3/19/2025 I modified the introduction paragraph and updated links to Bible copyright information.

          Update: Modified two notes on 12/30/2025.

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          A Forgotten History, part 1
          Memories of Eden, part 1
          36 min
        14. Episode 2: A Forgotten History, part 1

          There are a lot of versions of history. How do you know yours is the right one?

          WiderBible, Episode 2: A Forgotten History, part 1
          Adam Shull

          This episode has a lot of the first two chapters of Genesis with some background details from the book of Exodus.

          All the quotes from the Bible were were taken from the English Standard Version (see ESV copyright here) or the New King James Version. For the other sources, including commentaries, websites, or articles, you can find links and references in the show notes below in the order they appeared. If you have any questions, there’s a place to contact me at the bottom of the page.

          Show notes:

          1. For more on the background of Genghis Khan, see here.
          2. For the sizes of various empires in history compared to one another, see this article.
          3. For the size of the Mongolian empire compared to the land area of Earth, see here and here.
          4. For more on Soviet repression of Mongolian culture during the Cold War, see this article.
          5. For more on the tourists deported from China for watching a documentary about Genghis Khan, see this article.
          6. For a common example of censorship in modern culture, see this article.
          7. For more on the history of the Cherokee, see here.
          8. For the Cherokee story of creation, see here.
          9. For more on “earth-diver” category of creation stories in general, see here.
          10. For the creation story of the Yoruba in Nigeria, see here.
          11. For the Mixtec creation story, see here. Details on p. 118 and p. 120.
          12. For the Hindu creation story, see here.
          13. For the creation story of China, see here.
          14. For the creation story of the Maori of New Zealand, see here.
          15. For details on the Bantu story of creation, see here as well as Bauer, Susan Wise. The History of the Ancient World: From the Earliest Accounts to the Fall of Rome (Kindle Locations 689-690). W. W. Norton & Company. Kindle Edition.
          16. For more on Greek mythology, which can get pretty involved, see here.
          17. This is an abridged version of the Viking story of creation, but either a lot of details are left out, or there are some inscrutable parts in the original that make a little hard to follow.
          18. For more on James Ussher, see Pierce, L., Pierce, M. (2012) The Annals of the World. (pgs. 891-892).
          19. There’s a little conflicting information about what version of Ussher’s dates went into the King James Bible margins and when they went in. It seems Ussher’s original numbers were probably adjusted and added to the Bible by Bishop Lloyd in 1701, though another reference suggests it was an unknown publisher in 1703. See here and also Jones, F.N. (2015) Chronology of the Old Testament (pgs. 6-7). Master Books.
          20. Even today, Ussher’s “standard” history holds up reasonably well. September 21 might be a little specific, but the year 4004 BC was derived as recently as 2015 by another author. For more see Jones, F.N. (2015) Chronology of the Old Testament (pgs. 6-7). Master Books.
          21. For anecdotal information on Gideon Bibles still containing Ussher’s timeline in the second half of the 1900s, see where it is mentioned in this article.
          22. All these creation stories either arose independently from humans being created in different ways in different parts of the world (which seems unlikely) or they are branches of the same story and might retain at least some bits of truth from that story. For similar comments about the likelihood that some piece of the myths around the world are true see Bauer, Susan Wise. The History of the Ancient World: From the Earliest Accounts to the Fall of Rome (Kindle Locations 680-681). W. W. Norton & Company. Kindle Edition.
          23. The start of creation was October 23, 4004 BC in the Julian calendar James Ussher used. I used the Gregorian modification of September 21. For more on Ussher’s dates, see Pierce, L., Pierce, M. (2012) The Annals of the World. (pg. 17).
          24. For a timeline of Moses’ life, see here.
          25. For Moses’ age when he was sent to free the Israelite slaves, see Exodus 7:7.
          26. For the number of former slaves who left Egypt, Exodus 12:37 counts 600,000 men besides women and children. Because of concerns about how the logistics would work for so many people, there are a lot of opinions about whether this number is translated correctly or ought to be understood as a number of families or some other way that makes the total smaller. That’s a debate for another time. For now, if you take that number at face value, it’s easy to get a total of 2 million or more people when women and children are included in the count.
          27. For the Egyptian creation story, see here.
          28. I use the term “Palestine” to refer to the area along the eastern shore of the the Mediterranean sea. This word probably refers to the Philistines who lived there around the 12th century BC, but in the Bible, the area is called “Canaan” as mentioned by Easton, M. G. (1893). In Easton’s Bible dictionary. New York: Harper & Brothers.
          29. For more on the story of Baal (known as the Baal Cycle) see, here and here. Further reading at the second source, above, points out that Baal didn’t really become ruler of the cosmos until another battle with the god of the underworld also occurred, but the ending is the same. For Baal having thunder and rain as part of being the storm god, see pg. XXV here. For Yamm being described as a tyrant, see here.
          30. For the Babylonian story of creation, see here.
          31. For a timeline of Israelite history, see Jones, F.N. (2015) Chronology of the Old Testament (p. 278). Master Books.
          32. For Moses’ family history around Babylon, note that Abraham (Abram) came from “Ur of the Chaldeans” in Genesis 11:31 and Ur was the port of Babylonia according to Easton, M. G. (1893). In Easton’s Bible dictionary. New York: Harper & Brothers.
          33. For the likelihood that Abraham’s family was steeped in moon-worship from their time in Ur, see Bauer, Susan Wise. The History of the Ancient World: From the Earliest Accounts to the Fall of Rome . W. W. Norton & Company. Kindle Edition.
          34. For more on the history of “fifth-columnists” see here.
          35. There are a lot of reasons Moses might have known the history that everyone else forgot. It could be due to only a few generations between Moses and the people who lived before slavery. It might be from Moses’ time spent in exile as a shepherd among other descendants of Moses, or it could be from divine revelation. It’s possible, even likely, that Moses used documents passed down to him from earlier sources. For more, see here.
          36. There is only one real history, but there are many ways to present that history. Moses was telling the story of the world as things really happened, but the way he told that story was probably influenced by his own experiences and the audience who was listening to him. This doesn’t change the history, only the emphasis. Moses probably had to emphasize certain details that people in his day were confused about. If he were telling the story now, perhaps he would spend more time on the details we find befuddling today.
          37. The earliest description Moses gives of the world in Genesis is a reference to darkness over the “deep” and God hovering over the “face of the waters.” In the story, the creation of this ocean is never specifically mentioned, but given verses in the rest of the Bible (John 1:1-3 and Hebrews 11:3) it seems that God made this too, but the specifics of it weren’t mentioned in Moses’ account. In general, it should be noted that this is a story about the creation of the Earth, not a story about what did or did not happen before the Earth was created.
          38. The phrase ‘without form and void” appears only in Genesis 1:2 and Jeremiah 4:23 where Jeremiah describes the land of Judah as something so destroyed that it begins to be like the chaos of the whole world before creation. See Barker, K. L. (2002) NIV Study Bible. Genesis 1:2, note. Zondervan.
          39. Though the author of the book of Job is unclear, Moses may have written it too, and in Job 26:7 the same words for “emptiness” and “void” are used as in this first part of this creation story. The fact that the Earth is a wasteland at the start of creation does not imply that it was once destroyed to make it that way. Something can be a wasteland because it has never been organized or because someone or something came through and purposely disorganized it. The world at the start of creation seems to be an example of the former. For the authorship of the book of Job, see Easton, M. G. (1893). In Easton’s Bible dictionary. New York: Harper & Brothers. For further details on Genesis word origins, see Nichol, F. D. (Ed.). (1978). The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary. (Vol. 1, p. 209). Review and Herald Publishing Association.
          40. For details on the limits of human vision in low light, see this article.
          41. For details on the Orfield laboratories and their quiet room, see here and here.
          42. For the first aerial photos of the Earth taken from a V2 rocket, see this article.
          43. Maybe the Earth on that first day was a little like this blob of fluid in space, with fewer air bubbles in it.
          44. For a description of the full electromagnetic spectrum, see here. For why the sky is blue, see here. The thickness of the Earth’s atmosphere is found here.
          45. If you read the story of the second day of creation word-for-word, Moses says that God separated the water below from the water above and made a gap between them. That’s a little ambiguous from our modern scientific perspective, and people argue about what Moses meant. For a while, one popular idea was that God created a shell of some sort above the atmosphere all around the planet. That might be possible, but the theory has a lot of issues and isn’t really necessary. Currently, the best guess is that Day 2 was just the creation of the atmosphere without any appeal to more complicated ideas. This atmosphere might’ve been different in composition or pressure or a bunch of other ways than the one today, but was, in essence, the same concept. For more on issues with the water canopy idea, see this article, and for details about Day 2 simply being a reference to the atmosphere, see Nichol, F. D. (Ed.). (1978). The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary (Vol. 1, p. 211). Review and Herald Publishing Association. and Andrews Study Bible (2010) Genesis 1:6-8, note. Andrews University Press.
          46. You can get an ancient perspective on land rising up and valleys sinking down in Psalms 104:5-9.
          47. For more on the new island in Tonga see this for a general overview and this for a reference to the mud on the new island.
          48. For more on the types of plants God created on Day 3 of creation, see Nichol, F. D. (Ed.). (1978). The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary (Vol. 1, p. 212). Review and Herald Publishing Association.
          49. Unsurprisingly, bamboo that can grow 3-feet-a-day holds the Guinness World Record for fastest growing plant.
          50. For God’s definition of fruit, see Genesis 1:11.
          51. For modern definitions of fruits and vegetables, see here.
          52. For the Supreme Court case involving tomatoes, see here. The case cited several dictionary definitions, that stated that fruits were the parts of plants that contained the seed. See specifics here.
          53. For the switch at the end of the 3rd day of creation from forming-the-formless to filling-the-void, see Barker, K. L. (2002) NIV Study Bible. Genesis 1:2, note. Zondervan.
          54. Update: Some of the audio and show notes related to Canaanite mytholgoy were updated on 6/4/2019 to correct details from a poor source. I further improved the sources for some information on 12/16/2019 and edited some misspellings on 2/12/2020.

            Update: On 3/19/2025 I modified the introduction paragraph and updated links to Bible copyright information.

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            Foundations
            A Forgotten History, part 2
            32 min
          55. Episode 1: Foundations

            For a long time, the Bible was the most important book in the western world, ...then something changed.

            This first episode of WiderBible is the prologue. It looks at the history of the Bible, where it came from, and why so many people disagree about whether its stories are fact or fiction.

            Christianity makes more sense with a little background.

            WiderBible, Episode 1: Foundations
            Adam Shull

            There are a lot of show notes for this episode. I don’t think there will be quite as many in the future, but when you’re trying to cover the background of Bible history and the arguments from the last few hundred years for and against believing that history, things pile up a little.

            All the quotes from the Bible for the main story were were taken from the English Standard Version or the New King James Version. For the other sources, including commentaries, websites, or articles, you can find links and references in the show notes below in the order they appeared. If you have any questions, there’s a place to contact me at the bottom of the page.

            Show notes:

            1. At some level, Islam recognizes the books of Moses, Psalms of David, and Gospels of Jesus as Divine messages as mentioned on pg. 72 here. See also a reference to the Psalms here.
            2. For the full breakdown of world religions by percent, look here. Obviously the people who believe these religions range from passing interest to incredibly devout, but that’s pretty hard to quantify.
            3. Historically Moses is believed to be the author of Genesis. If you accept that belief, then he probably wrote it around 1500 BC based on the timelines he records in Genesis and Exodus. As with nearly everything else in the Bible, this is debated.
            4. For the full story on Moses’ early life, see Exodus 2
            5. For the geographic location of Midian, there are a lots of maps online or in books. For one example, see Barker, K. L. (2002) NIV Study Bible (Map 3: Exodus and Conquest of Canaan). Zondervan.
            6. According to tradition, Moses wrote the first five books of the Bible, the Jewish Torah. He might also be the author of the book of Job. We don’t know what order the books were written in.
            7. The timeline of Genesis’ history can be added up from the dates Moses wrote down. For more detail, see Condensed History and Calling Long Distance.
            8. For a decent breakdown of lots of chronological questions in the Old Testament, see Jones, F.N. (2015) Chronology of the Old Testament (p. 278). Master Books.
            9. Technically the books Moses wrote are the story of the Israelites, a name given to them after Israel, their closest common ancestor. Only one part of the Israelites were later called Jews, but that probably wasn’t until after 1 Kings 12 when the kingdom split.
            10. For the closest common ancestor of all the Israelites, see Genesis 29-30.
            11. If you want the story of the Israelites leaving slavery, becoming a nation, and getting the law, it’s pretty well covered in the book of Exodus.
            12. Malachi is both the last book of the Old Testament and probably the last one chronologically, but it doesn’t give a date for when it was written. Based upon its content and similar stories from Nehemiah, it might fit around 425 BC. The 1000 year span between Genesis and Malachi assumes Genesis was the first book written and Malachi the last. For more on the authorship of Malachi, see Nichol, F. D. (Ed.). (1977). The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary (Vol. 4, pp. 1119–1121). Review and Herald Publishing Association.
            13. There are 33 books not written by Moses in the Old Testament in modern English versions. The original Hebrew collection has a different number since some of the books are combined. See the list of Hebrew books here.
            14. More information on the content and breakdown of books in the Old Testament can be found in Nichol, F. D. (Ed.). (1978). The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary (Vol. 1, p. 37). Review and Herald Publishing Association.
            15. Jewish independence spans from the Exodus to the sack of Jerusalem and doesn’t include the various times when the Israelites were invaded and briefly subjected to any of a number of different surrounding nations. For dates, see Jones, F.N. (2015) Chronology of the Old Testament (p. 278-280). Master Books.
            16. Technically Jerusalem is not specifically called a capitol, but that’s where David built his palace and all the subsequent kings lived.
            17. Jeremiah 29:10 and Daniel 1:1-2 mention the 70 years of Jewish captivity. This ended in the first year of Cyrus, when the Jews were allowed to go home, as mentioned in Ezra 1. For a better explanation of the timeline, see Nichol, F. D. (Ed.). (1977). The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary (Vol. 3, pp. 94–97). Review and Herald Publishing Association.
            18. The Jews were allowed to start rebuilding the temple in the first year of Cyrus, 537-ish BC. The walls weren’t rebuilt until the time of Nehemiah, in 444 BC. See Nichol, F. D. (Ed.). (1977). The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary (Vol. 3, pp. 96–97, pg. 394). Review and Herald Publishing Association.
            19. For evidence that the Jews weren’t a nation, note that Nehemiah wasn’t a king, only a governor for the Persians in Nehemiah 12:26.
            20. For the ending date of the Jewish writings, Josephus commented that the Hebrew writings were fixed since the time of Artaxerxes, about 500 years before. For quote, see Josephus, Against Apion, I. 8. Link. This puts the end of the writings around the end of the time of Nehemiah.
            21. Genesis 3:15 gives the first promise of a solution to the problem of sin right after the first sin is committed.
            22. For Peter talking about some of the promises Jesus fulfilled, see his speech in Acts 3:11-26.
            23. For the location of Jesus’ birth, see Luke 2:1-7, for the timing of Jesus’ birth, see Jones, F.N. (2015) Chronology of the Old Testament (p. 280). Master Books.
            24. For the distance from Bethlehem to Jerusalem, see Easton, M. G. (1893). Easton’s Bible dictionary. New York: Harper & Brothers.
            25. Jesus grew up in Nazareth as stated in Luke 2:39-40.
            26. Size of Nazareth in Jesus’ day come from Easton, M. G. (1893). Easton’s Bible dictionary. New York: Harper & Brothers.
            27. Nazareth is 60 miles north of Jerusalem in a straight line. It was probably a good bit further if you were winding along roads and trails.
            28. The two verses (Matthew 13:65 and Mark 6:3) associated with Jesus’ occupation as a carpenter actually only reference Joseph, the person people assumed was Jesus’ father. If Jesus did work as a carpenter, we still only have a limited idea of what that involved. The word used for carpenter included people who worked in stone, copper, iron, and wood. See Easton, M. G. (1893). Easton’s Bible dictionary. New York: Harper & Brothers.
            29. For Jesus’ age when He started His ministry, see Luke 3:23. This fits with a birthdate of about 4 BC (Jones, F.N. (2015) Chronology of the Old Testament (p. 280). Master Books) and a likely baptism in 27 AD (Nichol, F. D. (Ed.). (1980). The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary (Vol. 5, p. 247). Review and Herald Publishing Association.).
            30. Jesus is baptized in Luke 3:21-22.
            31. Jesus started preaching in synagogues (Luke 4:14-15 but eventually had to preach in the open due to the size of the crowds (Matthew 4:23-5:1, Matthew 13:2).
            32. Examples of miracles Jesus performed can be found in Matthew 11:2-6.
            33. There is some debate on the length of Jesus ministry, but 3-and-a-half years is plausible. For more, see Nichol, F. D. (Ed.). (1980). The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary (Vol. 5, p. 248). Review and Herald Publishing Association.
            34. The supposed threat Jesus posed to the Jewish nation is discussed in John 11:45-53.
            35. At the point in history when Jesus lived, the Jews were not allowed to execute people, they had to get permission from the Romans. For more, see John 18:31.
            36. For the time Jesus spent in the tomb, the gospels reference “three-days”, ”after three days”, ”on the third day”, and ”three days and three nights”. Simply put, these all make sense if the crucifixion was on Friday, the resurrection was on Sunday, and parts of a day count as a whole day. For a full discussion, you can read Nichol, F. D. (Ed.). (1980). The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary (Vol. 5, pp. 248–251). Review and Herald Publishing Association.
            37. Jesus’ resurrection is talked about in several places in the New Testament. One example is Matthew 28:1-9.
            38. In the example of the disciples on the road to Emmaus, in Luke 24:13-27, Jesus came back in person to help some of His followers connect the dots between His life and the promises in the Old Testament.
            39. For how long Jesus was on Earth after His resurrection, see Acts 1:3.
            40. For the story of Jesus’ ascension, see Acts 1:9.
            41. For Jesus’ promises that He’d return, see Acts 1:11 and John 14:1-3 as examples.
            42. Revelation was probably one of the last books written, and though the date is debated, there’s reason to believe it was composed near 100 AD. See Barker, K. L. (2002) NIV Study Bible (p. 1963). Zondervan.
            43. The number of New Testament authors isn’t definitive, but is based on the information in the “authorship” sections on each book of the Bible in Nichol, F. D. (Ed.). (1978). The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary (Vols. 5-7). Review and Herald Publishing Association.
            44. One example of Paul trying to explain the reasoning behind Jesus’ sacrifice can be found in Hebrews 9:11-28. Further examples can be found in Ephesians 1:7 and Hebrews 9:11-28.
            45. For the split opinion of the Jews about Jesus as the Messiah, see Acts 28:17-30.
            46. Acts 11:26 mentions that followers of Jesus were called “Christians” even before the New Testament was done being written.
            47. We get the term “testament” from Tertullian, but we don’t know if he coined the title or was referencing some other originator of the term that we have now lost. See Horn, S. H. (1979). The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Dictionary (p. 792). Review and Herald Publishing Association.
            48. For more on Tertullian, see here.
            49. The name “testament” should probably be translated “covenant.” Paul had an idea of these “old” and “new” covenants in mind and mentioned them in Hebrews 9:15 and 2 Corinthians 3:14. The “new” covenant is also mentioned by Jesus at the last supper in Luke 22:20. For more information, See Horn, S. H. (1979). The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Dictionary (p. 792). Review and Herald Publishing Association.
            50. The etymology of “Bible” is from Easton, M. G. (1893). Easton’s Bible dictionary. New York: Harper & Brothers.
            51. Further etymology for “Bible” is from Horn, S. H. (1979). In The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Dictionary (p. 149). Review and Herald Publishing Association.
            52. The Bible was compiled from around 1500 BC when Moses probably began writing to around 100 AD when John finished it. See Jones, F.N. (2015) Chronology of the Old Testament (p. 279-280). Master Books.
            53. The identities of the Bible authors are not definitive, but a best estimate. Identification of the writer of each book comes from the “authorship” sections on each book of the Bible in Nichol, F. D. (Ed.). (1978). The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary (Vols. 1-7). Review and Herald Publishing Association.
            54. The first mention of a printing press in the west is 1439, though the first Bible wasn’t printed until about 1455.
            55. For book copying prior to the printing press, see comment on the Gutenberg Bible here.
            56. Further information on the Gutenberg Bible here.
            57. For the total number of books in Europe when the Gutenberg Bibles were printed and other facts about Gutenberg look here.
            58. Details on the King James Version of the Bible can be found here.
            59. In this short history of the Bible, I skipped over the language question. A lot could be said about Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek, Latin, and how things were translated over the years, but that’s, at best, a story for another time.
            60. English royalty commissioned the King James Version, and they still hold the copywright in the United Kingdom. It’s in the public domain elsewhere. Link.
            61. For the background of thought and belief leading into the Enlightenment see this article.
            62. For an overview of early Christian persecution in the Roman Empire, see here.
            63. For eventual religious tolerance of Christians in the Roman empire, see here.
            64. For information about Constantine, see this article.
            65. The amount of time it took Christianity to become established as the religion of the Roman empire is given here.
            66. Details on the fall of the western Roman empire are given here.
            67. The Christian church became an important enough influence in the waning days of the western Roman Empire that a few years before Rome fell, Pope Leo I, not the Roman emperor, conducted the successful peace negotiations with Attila the Hun. See more info here.
            68. For the widely recognized basis of Christian belief in western law, see here.
            69. 1517 is the traditional start date of the Protestant Reformation. There were other earlier reformers, but Luther had the largest and most noteworthy impact. For more information, see here.
            70. One further encouragement to look for alternatives to Christianity was the ongoing wars between the Catholic and Protestant religions, which left people wanting some third alternative ethic upon which to rely. For more, see here.
            71. More details on the “Enlightenment,” as this period is called, including the celebration of reason, can be found here. Eventually there was even a celebration of the cult of reason in the French Revolution, though, perhaps the French Revolution isn’t the best example of reason being properly applied.
            72. For more about Thomas Hobbes, see here.
            73. For more on Historical Criticism of the Bible, see here.
            74. For more about Baruch Spinoza, see here.
            75. For more about Jean Astruc and the ultimate ideas of Historical Criticism, see Nichol, F. D. (Ed.). (1978). The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary (Vol. 1, pp. 197–201). Review and Herald Publishing Association.
            76. For more on Julius Wellhausen, see here. Wellhausen wasn’t the originator of the idea that Moses didn’t write Genesis, but he was influential in convincing scholars the theory was valid. For more, see pg. 16 here and pg. 20 here.
            77. For more on James Hutton, see here.
            78. For more on Hutton and his geologic theories, see Nichol, F. D. (Ed.). (1978). The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary (Vol. 1, p. 71). Review and Herald Publishing Association.
            79. For James Hutton’s dismissal of human records, including the Bible, see here.
            80. For the popularization of Hutton’s ideas by Lyell, see Nichol, F. D. (Ed.). (1978). The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary (Vol. 1, pp. 71–72). Review and Herald Publishing Association.
            81. For Lyell’s uniformitarian contribution, see here and here.
            82. See Uniformitarianism for the underpinnings of modern geology.
            83. For Lyell’s influence on Darwin, see here.
            84. For one of the earliest theories of evolution, see Jean Baptiste Lamarck.
            85. The first edition of On the Origin of Species was published in 1859. The first American edition was published in 1860. Link
            86. It’s not politically correct to state it today, but the full title of the book is On the origin of species by means of natural selection, or the preservation of favoured races in the struggle for life. Link
            87. For the story of the sales of On the Origin of Species see this article.
            88. For more on the history and development of Darwin’s ideas, see here.
            89. For the theoretical timeline of the formation of life on Earth, see here.
            90. For modern opinions of the mythological background of Genesis see here.
            91. For the Bible’s story on the origin of humans, see Genesis 1 and 2.
            92. For the Bible’s version of the origin of sin and evil in the world as well as the source of pain and suffering, see Genesis 2:9 and Genesis 3.
            93. The first clue to the solution to sin comes in Genesis 3:14-15. The first example of a sacrifice, foreshadowing Jesus in the New Testament, shows up when Adam and Eve are given skins in Genesis 3:21 to cover their nakedness (Genesis 2:25 and Genesis 3:7). The details of something dying as an offering is spelled in more detail in other books of Moses (Leviticus 16 is one example) but the idea was already in place by the story story of Cain and Abel in Genesis 4:1-7.
            94. For more on the effects of Tambora, see here. I said that this was the worst famine in the 1800s. More accurately, the famine of 1816-1817 was the worst in over a century, and, by extension of being the last subsitence crisis in the western world, the worst famine for Europe in the 1800s.
            95. For more on New England’s “year without a summer,” see here.
            96. For more on the story of World War II smoke screens affecting tree growth in Norway, see here or here.
            97. For more on the vanishing and reappearing Irish beach, see here or here.
            98. For some counterarguments about Lyell’s geology, see here.
            99. As for an “always smooth past,” Hutton and Lyell’s uniformitarianism is now a blend of gradual change with the occasional catastrophe. See "uniformitarianism." The Columbia Encyclopedia, 6th ed. Encyclopedia.com. 29 Jan. 2019
            100. www.encyclopedia.com="">. Link
            101. Even when the extreme outliers are included in a uniformitarian extrapolation of history, such as one theory about a meteor take-down of the dinosaurs, it’s hard to know how to extrapolate what happens next. We don’t have experience with large meteor impacts, it’s hard to know how the Earth would behave if one were to suddenly run into it.
            102. For a longer discussion of some of the problems with the Documentary Hypothesis (as Wellhausen’s theory is called) see Nichol, F. D. (Ed.). (1978). The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary (Vol. 1, pp. 197–203). Review and Herald Publishing Association.
            103. Wellhausen’s theory itself has fallen out of favor, but the basic idea, that Moses didn’t write Genesis is still quite popular. For more on the collapse of Wellhausen’s ideas, see Carr, D. (2015) Hebrew Bible / Old Testament: History of Its Interpretation. (pg. 434) Link. More on the whole discussion can be found in Nichol, F. D. (Ed.). (1978). The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary (Vol. 1, pp. 197–205). Review and Herald Publishing Association.).
            104. See summary of Darwin’s ideas here.
            105. For one explanation of evolutionary odds, see here. That said, long odds don’t make something impossible, just really unlikely. Long odds mean you shouldn’t bet on evolution happening again, but they don’t prove it didn’t already happen.
            106. For more on biochemistry and evolution, see Michael Behe and Darwin’s Black Box. He also notes the limits to Darwin’s ideas here. For a computer scientist’s take on irreducible complexity, see this article. For some interesting complexities of human anatomy, see here.
            107. The story of Moses’ adoption into the Egyptian royal family is in Exodus 2.
            108. It’s not clear whether Egyptian or Mesopotamian literature came first. See Daniels, P. T. (1996). The World’s Writing Systems. (pg. 33). Oxford University Press. Link
            109. Terah, Abram’s (Abraham’s) father left first Ur, then after Terah died, Abram left Haran in Genesis 11:27-12:9.
            110. For Moses’ family tree and details about their lifespans, try this article.
            111. The Flood lasted about a year, but the building of the ark probably took a good bit longer. For a full discussion, try here.
            112. For water covering the mountains in the Flood, see Genesis 7:18-19.
            113. One of the theories that it was a local flood is mentioned here. This doesn’t explain why the stories are found around the world unless you accept the notion that a monstrous flood that wipes out the majority of life on Earth is a normal human experience.
            114. For marine fossils in the Himalayas, see here.
            115. For sand washing across a continent, see here. To go from New York and Pennsylvania to Utah is up-hill as given by this article with the average, maximum, and minimum elevations of each state.
            116. For Greek Flood story, see here.
            117. For the Flood story from Iraq (Babylon), see here.
            118. For Indian Flood story, see here.
            119. For Mexican (Aztec) Flood story, see here.
            120. For the Hawaiian Flood story, see here.
            121. For a reference to the Chinese Flood story, see “Nuwa” here.
            122. One interesting chart comparing Flood legends around the world is at the end of the article here.
            123. Fossils of sea life on mountains is one evidence of a global Flood, but that idea is dismissed by proponents of the theory that moutains were gradually pushed up from the ocean floor via continental drift. To those points, there are counter-points, but making sense of the debate depends on how much you want to dive into discussions about geology, and how much you trust geology that’s pretty theoretical.
            124. These incomplete models are true for Christians too. Paul knew it when he stated there was still more to learn in Corinthians 13:12.
            125. If you want do some research about the origin of the Earth, and whether the Bible is a reasonable history, Answers in Genesis and the Institute for Creation Research are dedicated to that question. They offer a pretty good collection of articles, including some helpful technical ones, that outline various arguments in favor of believing the stories in Genesis. No website has the story altogether right (including WiderBible), but the information they offer can be helpful.
            126. For the discovery of the story of Gilgamesh, see here and here. It seems Layard was the initial investigator at Nineveh, in 1849, but he left before Rassam discovered the tablets 4 years later in 1853.
            127. For more on the translation of the Epic of Gilgamesh by George Smith, see here.
            128. George Smith gave a presentation on his discovery of the tablet to the Biblical Archaeology Society by December of 1872, and the story was popular enough that a newspaper paid his way to find out more information. See the story here.
            129. For the number of tablets in the Epic of Gilgamesh see here. Another resource suggests the standard version was only 11 tablets and a 12th tablet was added later.
            130. For the Babylonians taking the Jews captive, see Jeremiah 52.
            131. For the erroneous belief that the Babylonian version of the creation and flood stories provided the source material for the stories in the Bible, see Nichol, F. D. (Ed.). (1978). The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary (Vol. 1, p. 202). Review and Herald Publishing Association.
            132. See summary of the Epic of Gilgameshhere. Summary of the Bible story of the Flood is in Genesis 6-9. Summary of the story of a snake stealing immortality is in Genesis 3.
            133. The total number of bits of the Epic of Gilgamesh, in one form or another, were counted in 2003 here.
            134. For the oldest examples of the Epic of Gilgamesh see here for the number of “Old Babylonian” pieces and here for their age.
            135. The ages of archeological literature should, probably, be taken with an cup of salt. A lot of assumptions go into figuring out how old something is, and it’s hard for a professional, let alone an amateur, to know how reasonable those assumptions are.
            136. For the conclusion that both the Epic of Gilgamesh and the Genesis account are different original stories of the same past event, see Chapter 2, footnote 6 in Bauer, Susan Wise. The History of the Ancient World: From the Earliest Accounts to the Fall of Rome. W. W. Norton & Company. Kindle Edition.
            137. The relative age of China compared to Babylon has the same murkiness as all the other ancient timelines. The Yellow Emperor, credited with the introduction of writing to China, was supposedly born in 2704 BC, and is considered an historical person and the source of government and law in China. In the middle east, Babylon calculated it’s start date sometime before 2300 BC. According to the timeline in Genesis, the Flood occurred in 2348 BC. If the account in Genesis is true, as this podcast assumes, there is probably some calculation mistake in the timeline for ancient Chinese history as well as the timelines of other ancient cultures going back further than the middle of the 3rd millenium BC.
            138. The earliest Chinese writing we know of is from the Shang dynasty which spanned several hundred years and ended about 1000 BC, with the oracle bones that contain the writing dated toward the end of that time frame. One source, on pg. 84 here suggests that writing in China could have been as early as 1500 BC. This places Chinese writing after the proposed date for when the Epic of Gilgamesh was written. Given the dates, it is technically possible that Chinese word origins recorded on the oracle bones were influenced by Babylonian documents that had traveled all the way to China, but the distances make it improbable.
            139. Chinese writing isn’t very easy to categorize. The same encyclopedia article says that Chinese isn’t a pictograph or a syllable language while the next paragraph claims nouns and verbs are written by symbols that were originally pictures.
            140. While the “apple” example of Chinese writing is my own, it follows from other examples like the carpenter’s square meaning “to work” or a woman and a child meaning “to love”. For more, see here.
            141. For the development of Chinese writing over time, see here.
            142. The most ancient Chinese characters are written on oracle bones.
            143. For the clarity of the early Chinese pictograms, see Nelson, E.R., Broadberry, R.E. (1997) God’s Promise to the Chinese. (pg. 11).
            144. For more detail on this whole discussion of Chinese writing, along with the parallels between Chinese symbols and the stories at the beginning of Genesis, look here, or here, and see Nelson, E.R., Broadberry, R.E. (1997) God’s Promise to the Chinese. (pgs. 10-11).
            145. The stories in Genesis 1 to Genesis 11:9 are global history. It starts with creation and ends with people spreading out around the world when they can’t communicate with one another while building the Tower of Babel. If the oral history has survived, anything before the Tower of Babel should be common across cultures around the world while anything after the Tower of Babel would be unique to that culture.
            146. Update 12/16/2019: Improved the sources used for some information.

              Update 3/13/2024: Corrected a section that mistakenly claimed examples of Chinese writing were as old as the proposed date of Epic of Gilgamesh artifacts. Upon review, the earliest Chinese writing was not dated as early as 1700 BC, but from a dynasty that began around 1700 BC with the earliest artifacts of their writing dated to 200 to 700 years later. Updated show notes and audio.

              Update: On 3/19/2025 I modified the introduction paragraph and updated links to Bible copyright information.

              Update: Proofread and corrected typos and removed one show note with my opinion in it on 5/15/2025.

              Update: Replaced a link for a source on 11/14/2025.

              Next:
              A Forgotten History, part 1
              32 min

            About WiderBible

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            Created by an engineer, WiderBible is a podcast of Bible stories for anyone who likes history, archeology, geography, chemistry, physics, and the word ‘unabridged.’