We may tell our children, “Reach for the moon and even if you fall short, you land among the stars.” Yet, do we take our own advice? 

In this deeply personal conversation, Elena sits down with former big law attorney and WILL Coach Ghazal Tajmiri to talk about what happens after you decide to leave law and follow your dreams.

Ghazal shares the invisible challenges that come with stepping away from the legal profession that has shaped your identity for years. The fear of disappointing others, the uncertainty of not knowing what's next, and the grief of saying goodbye to the lawyer identity.   

She opens up about how WILL helped her move from burnout and over-functioning to clarity.  She describes how community was essential to her transition, and how she eventually discovered coaching as the next chapter of her career.

In this episode, you'll learn:

• Why you're more than your job title and how to untangle your identity from your career.
• The powerful question that helped Ghazal finally leave big law.
• Why finding your next career doesn't require having everything figured out first.

If you've ever found yourself asking, "Can I leave big law and follow my dreams?" this episode is for you.

About Ghazal

Ghazal is a former corporate litigator now working in her second career as a trauma informed life and leadership coach, helping her clients live with greater joy and fulfilment in their personal and professional lives. She guides her clients to recognize and cut through limiting stories imprinted on us through societal, cultural, and family conditioning.

In addition to her private coaching and consulting business, Ghazal is a WILL Coach and a faculty member of NI2C - a nonprofit organization dedicated to supporting underserved groups impacted by interpersonal trauma.

Connect

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ghazaltajmiri/

Email: [email protected]

WILL

The WILL- Women Interested in Leaving Law Podcast is hosted by Elena Deutsch, a dedicated legal career coach and catalyst. This podcast is more than a good listen; it’s an invitation to explore new possibilities and shed limiting beliefs. 

As WILL Alumni and guests share their journeys beyond traditional legal careers, you’ll see that you can leave or love law.

Feel stuck, unhappy, or ready to explore your own WILL journey?

Book your consultation: https://consultation.womeninterestedinleavinglaw.com/2-step-sales-page-page-4160

Follow Us:

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elena-deutsch/
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/womeninterestedinleavinglaw
  

Show Notes

WILL: Women Interested In Leaving Law Loveable - Women interested in leaving law

WILL Newsletter: https://link.fgfunnels.com/widget/form/2OOmfRouYf83WdrVvONF 

In this episode, Elena sits down with Megan Senese, co-founder and principal of Stage, a woman-owned business development and marketing firm that helps lawyers grow authentic, sustainable books of business.

After years of doing marketing for big law firms, Megan shared similar struggles that women lawyers face, such as feeling stuck, burning out and questioning purpose.  One simple exercise called the "I Want Circle" helped her move beyond the golden handcuffs of big law and build a business aligned with her values. 

Together, she and Elena explore why business development is truly about relationships, why authenticity beats networking scripts, and why one of the most important career questions is also the simplest: What do you actually want?
 

In this episode, you'll hear:

• Why prestige, promotions, and compensation don't always lead to fulfillment.
• How Megan's "I Want Circle" exercise became the filter that guided every career decision and helped her confidently say no to opportunities that weren't aligned.
• Why authentic business development starts with genuine relationships, consistency, and knowing yourself, NOT networking.

Whether you're considering leaving law, building your own practice, or simply looking for more purpose in your career, this conversation offers practical wisdom and powerful reflection.

About Megan

Megan Senese is the co-founder and Principal of stage, a woman-owned business development and marketing firm focused on generating relationships, revenue, and growth for lawyers and law firms.  

Connect

Website: www.stage.guide  

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/megansenese/ 

WILL

The WILL- Women Interested in Leaving Law Podcast is hosted by Elena Deutsch, a dedicated legal career coach and catalyst. This podcast is more than a good listen; it’s an invitation to explore new possibilities and shed limiting beliefs. 

As WILL Alumni and guests share their journeys beyond traditional legal careers, you’ll see that you can leave or love law.

Feel stuck, unhappy, or ready to explore your own WILL journey?

Book your consultation: https://consultation.womeninterestedinleavinglaw.com/2-step-sales-page-page-4160

Follow WILL:

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elena-deutsch/
• Instagram: www.instagram.com/womeninterestedinleavinglaw
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/womeninterestedinleavinglaw

“I was unhappy every single day. I was a good lawyer, but I hated it. 

Then I wondered, ‘How good might I be at something I actually liked doing?’”

For Stephanie Wilkins, this question was a wake up call.

After eight years as a litigator with a partnership lined up, Stephanie made the decision to walk away without a clear plan. A “crazy/scary” and necessary move.

In this episode, Stephanie shares why walking away from a potential partnership gave her the space to figure out what she liked doing.  What followed was a year of travel that confirmed her decision to leave.  She found her way onto a more aligned path  in writing, journalism and legal tech.

We talk about:

• What it felt like to walk away from big law without a plan.
• The difference between burnout and misalignment.
• How to reconnect with what you’ve always loved, and turn it into a career.
• Why “quitting” isn’t failure and how to manage expectations - yours and others. 
• How to break into legal tech and why it’s full of opportunity right now.

If you’re wondering what you can do off the “traditional lock-step legal path” out there for you, listen to this conversation! 

About Stephanie

Stephanie Wilkins is the Director of Content at Legaltech Hub, where she helps lead the company in building out its editorial content and thought leadership strategy. Previously, she was the Editor-in-Chief of Legal Technology and Legaltech News at ALM, where she served as a guide for the entire ALM newsroom in tackling the intersection of law, technology, and AI. In a past life, Stephanie was a successful litigator in the New York offices of Clyde &; Co and Dewey & LeBoeuf.

Connect

https://www.legaltechnologyhub.com/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephanie-wilkins/ 

WILL

The WILL- Women Interested in Leaving Law Podcast is hosted by Elena Deutsch, a dedicated legal career coach and catalyst. This podcast is more than a good listen; it’s an invitation to explore new possibilities and shed limiting beliefs. 

As WILL Alumni and guests share their journeys beyond traditional legal careers, you’ll see that you can leave or love law.

Feel stuck, unhappy, or ready to explore your own WILL journey?

Book your consultation: https://consultation.womeninterestedinleavinglaw.com/2-step-sales-page-page-4160

“I thought people with rich husbands could make career pivots, not me.”

After 20 years as a lawyer and in-house executive, Pam Richardson had the career many attorneys work decades to achieve. But beneath her title, compensation and success, she couldn’t shake the feeling “There has to be something more than this!”

As a single mom of twins, leaving law felt impossible. In this episode, Pam shares how she slowly shifted from feeling trapped in a high-achieving legal career to building a path toward work that feels aligned and meaningful.

We cover:

• Why so many women lawyers struggle to imagine careers outside law.
• The mindset shifts that helped Pam stop seeing herself as “stuck.”
• How coaching, community, and possibility changed the trajectory of her career.
• The financial planning and practical steps behind making a sustainable career transition.
• Why lawyers often stay years longer than they want to.

As a woman lawyer, leaving a legal career is almost unthinkable, especially if you believe you can’t do anything other than be a lawyer or you are accustomed to people-pleasing.

This conversation is a powerful reminder that meaningful change is possible as a woman lawyer, even if it happens one step at a time.

About Pam

After more than 20 years as an attorney and in-house executive advising leaders at Fortune 1000 and Global 500 companies, Pam decided to step away from the practice of law and focus fully on the work she finds most meaningful; partnering directly with people as they navigate growth, change, and leadership challenges.  She founded Waypoint Partners where she works with organizations and individuals at all stages of their careers.

Connect

https://pamrichardsonllc.com/

WILL

The WILL- Women Interested in Leaving Law Podcast is hosted by Elena Deutsch, a dedicated legal career coach and catalyst. This podcast is more than a good listen; it’s an invitation to explore new possibilities and shed limiting beliefs. 

As WILL Alumni and guests share their journeys beyond traditional legal careers, you’ll see that you can leave or love law.

Feel stuck, unhappy, or ready to explore your own WILL journey?

Book your consultation: https://consultation.womeninterestedinleavinglaw.com/2-step-sales-page-page-4160

Follow

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elena-deutsch/
• Instagram: www.instagram.com/womeninterestedinleavinglaw
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/womeninterestedinleavinglaw
• Web: https://womeninterestedinleavinglaw.com

References

Alternative Careers Panel Discussion: What Claude/Chat Can’t Tell You”
Watch here: https://alternativecareers.womeninterestedinleavinglaw.com/

“I thought… ‘I’m earning forty thousand dollars a year, working seventy to ninety hours a week… and I’m going to have a heart attack.’”

Before becoming a coach for lawyers, Michelle Thompson practiced as a labor lawyer. Fueled by caffeine and alcohol, the years of overwork and financial stress took a tool.  She faced the real “costs” of how she was lawyering.

In this honest conversation, Michelle shares her journey from lawyer to PhD candidate to coach. She explains why so many women lawyers stay trapped in survival mode for years longer than they want to. 

This episode covers:

• Hidden physical and emotional costs of legal culture.
• How women lawyers lose touch with what they actually want.
• Nervous system impacts from chronic stress, overwork, and perfectionism.
• Burnout, depression, and rebuilding her life.
• How Emotional Freedom Technique (EFT/tapping) can help lawyers regulate stress and reconnect with themselves.

This episode is especially for you if you’re a high-achieving lawyer, conditioned to white knuckle and push through exhaustion, and no longer want to live that way. 

About Michelle

Michelle Thompson, JD, PhD, works with women lawyers to build their book of business and/or hit their billable hours without the burnout. She does this through public speaking at Bar Associations and law firms, as well as through coaching programs in Resistant Vision.

Connect

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-michelle-thompson-esq-b75317403/ 

WILL

The WILL- Women Interested in Leaving Law Podcast is hosted by Elena Deutsch, a dedicated legal career coach and catalyst. This podcast is more than a good listen; it’s an invitation to explore new possibilities and shed limiting beliefs. 

As WILL Alumni and guests share their journeys beyond traditional legal careers, you’ll see that you can leave or love law.

Feel stuck, unhappy, or ready to explore your own WILL journey?

Book your consultation: https://consultation.womeninterestedinleavinglaw.com/2-step-sales-page-page-4160

What if your negative thoughts aren’t the problem, but actually clues pointing you toward what you truly want?

In this episode, Elena shares a powerful mindset revelation she recently uncovered while coaching women lawyers through the CPR process: underneath every critical or limiting thought is actually a deeper value, desire, or goal.

Through personal stories and client examples, Elena walks listeners through how to transform self-criticism into clarity, create more empowering thoughts, and generate the energy needed to take meaningful action toward a more aligned life and career.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

• Why negative thoughts are often clues to your deepest desires
• How to reframe self-criticism into empowering beliefs
• The 3 questions that help generate positive energy and action

If you’ve been feeling stuck, uncertain, or trapped in negative self-talk, this episode offers a practical framework to help you uncover the “gold” hidden beneath those thoughts and use it to move forward.

WILL

The WILL- Women Interested in Leaving Law Podcast is hosted by Elena Deutsch, a dedicated legal career coach and catalyst. This podcast is more than a good listen; it’s an invitation to explore new possibilities and shed limiting beliefs. 

As WILL Alumni and guests share their journeys beyond traditional legal careers, you’ll see that you can leave or love law.

Feel stuck, unhappy, or ready to explore your own WILL journey?

Book your consultation: https://consultation.womeninterestedinleavinglaw.com/2-step-sales-page-page-4160

“I thought people with rich husbands could make career pivots, not me.”

After 20 years as a lawyer and in-house executive, Pam Richardson had the career many attorneys work decades to achieve. But beneath her title, compensation and success, she couldn’t shake the feeling “There has to be something more than this!”

As a single mom of twins, leaving law felt impossible. In this episode, Pam shares how she slowly shifted from feeling trapped in a high-achieving legal career to building a path toward work that feels aligned and meaningful.

We cover:

• Why so many women lawyers struggle to imagine careers outside law.
• The mindset shifts that helped Pam stop seeing herself as “stuck.”
• How coaching, community, and possibility changed the trajectory of her career.
• The financial planning and practical steps behind making a sustainable career transition.
• Why lawyers often stay years longer than they want to.

As a woman lawyer, leaving a legal career is almost unthinkable, especially if you believe you can’t do anything other than be a lawyer or you are accustomed to people-pleasing.

This conversation is a powerful reminder that meaningful change is possible as a woman lawyer, even if it happens one step at a time.

About Pam

After more than 20 years as an attorney and in-house executive advising leaders at Fortune 1000 and Global 500 companies, Pam decided to step away from the practice of law and focus fully on the work she finds most meaningful; partnering directly with people as they navigate growth, change, and leadership challenges.  She founded Waypoint Partners where she works with organizations and individuals at all stages of their careers.

Connect

• https://pamrichardsonllc.com/
  

WILL

The WILL- Women Interested in Leaving Law Podcast is hosted by Elena Deutsch, a dedicated legal career coach and catalyst. This podcast is more than a good listen; it’s an invitation to explore new possibilities and shed limiting beliefs. 

As WILL Alumni and guests share their journeys beyond traditional legal careers, you’ll see that you can leave or love law.

Feel stuck, unhappy, or ready to explore your own WILL journey?

Book your consultation: https://consultation.womeninterestedinleavinglaw.com/2-step-sales-page-page-4160

Follow

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elena-deutsch/
• Instagram: www.instagram.com/womeninterestedinleavinglaw
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/womeninterestedinleavinglaw
• Web: https://womeninterestedinleavinglaw.com

“The world's not gonna fall apart without you for a couple of hours.” It’s the phrase that EVERY woman lawyer needs to hear.

From early career misery to making partner in big law, Heather did everything “right.” Until a life-changing cancer diagnosis forced her to rethink what success actually meant.

In this episode, Heather shares how she rebuilt her career and her life on her own terms. We cover:

• Why you can’t just “think” your way to clarity.
• The identity shift required to leave or redefine your legal career.
• How to build a successful, sustainable career without sacrificing your life.

Learn how to leave law or love your role within law. As a woman lawyer, leaving a legal career is almost unthinkable, especially if you believe you can’t do anything other than be a lawyer or you are accustomed to people-pleasing. 

About Heather

Heather Moulder is a former BigLaw partner turned lawyer business coach and host of Life & Law, a lawyer podcast about achieving success without the sacrifice. After building a multi-million dollar law practice around a full life, she left it all to help other lawyers do the same. 

Connect

• Coaching Website: https://www.coursecorrectioncoaching.com/ 
• Podcast Website: https://www.lifeandlawpodcast.com/ 
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/heathermoulder/

WILL

The WILL- Women Interested in Leaving Law Podcast is hosted by Elena Deutsch, a dedicated legal career coach and catalyst. This podcast is more than a good listen; it’s an invitation to explore new possibilities and shed limiting beliefs. 

As WILL Alumni and guests share their journeys beyond traditional legal careers, you’ll see that you can leave or love law.

Feel stuck, unhappy, or ready to explore your own WILL journey?

Book your consultation: https://consultation.womeninterestedinleavinglaw.com/2-step-sales-page-page-4160

Follow

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elena-deutsch/
• Instagram: www.instagram.com/womeninterestedinleavinglaw
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/womeninterestedinleavinglaw
• Web: https://womeninterestedinleavinglaw.com

“What if nothing is wrong… but it still doesn’t feel right?”

Jessie Brown didn’t hate being a lawyer. She had a prestigious career, stable income, and was at a “good” firm. But beneath it all, something felt off.

After years of pushing through and ignoring what her body told her, Jessie reached a turning point.

In this episode, Jessie shares her journey from Big Law to coaching and how she left behind a life built on safety to follow something far more aligned.

We talked about:

• How you can outgrow a “good” legal career and what keeps lawyers stuck
• How to listen to your body as a compass for career decisions
• Why curiosity (not clarity) is the first step to career change
• The difference between career coaching and deeper “soul-level” work
• Why not everyone needs to leave law, but everyone needs alignment

About Jessie

Jessie is a former lawyer turned coach, purpose guide, meditation teacher, and breath work facilitator. She also facilitates sound baths and forest bathing. She’s a mom of two boys and married to a lawyer.

Connect

www.linkedin.com/in/jessiebrowncoaching

www.jessiebrown.org

https://substack.com/@returningtosoul

WILL

The WILL- Women Interested in Leaving Law Podcast is hosted by Elena Deutsch, a dedicated legal career coach and catalyst. This podcast is more than a good listen; it’s an invitation to explore new possibilities and shed limiting beliefs. As WILL Alumni and guests share their journeys beyond traditional legal practice, you’ll see that change is not just possible, it’s within your reach.

Feel stuck, unhappy, or ready to explore your own WILL journey?

Book your consultation with Elena: womeninterestedinleavinglaw.com/book-a-call
 

Follow Us:

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elena-deutsch/
• Instagram: www.instagram.com/womeninterestedinleavinglaw
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/womeninterestedinleavinglaw
• Web: https://womeninterestedinleavinglaw.com

Imagine having a simple tool to stop your spiral into doubt, fear, or worst-case scenarios.

Imagine you easily interrupt negative thought loops. 

You are able to intentionally reignite your motivation, clarity, and desire.

In this episode of the [@] WILL podcast, I talk about a powerful mindset tool called "CPR".  

CPR stands for Choose, Positive, and Repeat/Reignite. It was inspired by a coach I study with, Stacey Boehman who teaches “Intentional Thought Creation”.  As part of that I heard her say, “Choose positive thoughts, and then repeat.”  I wrote down CPR.  I am adapting her methodology for you. 

CPR connects you with your heart's desires, and shows you how to break free from doubt and create momentum. 

This episode is especially valuable for women lawyers (and high-achievers in general) stuck in cycles of overthinking, self-doubt, or inertia. 

Listen in to learn:

• How not to “dance” with negative thoughts.
• Focus on positively-framed questions to create momentum. 
• Repeat and rewire your brain and belief in what’s possible.

Are you ready for a practical way to shift your mindset quickly and effectively? 

Listen in now and give yourself CPR!

Show Notes

Stacey Bayman

WILL

The WILL- Women Interested in Leaving Law Podcast is hosted by Elena Deutsch, a dedicated legal career coach and catalyst. This podcast is more than a good listen; it’s an invitation to explore new possibilities and shed limiting beliefs. As WILL Alumni and guests share their journeys beyond traditional legal practice, you’ll see that change is not just possible, it’s within your reach.

Feel stuck, unhappy, or ready to explore your own WILL journey?

Book your consultation with Elena: womeninterestedinleavinglaw.com/book-a-call
 

Follow Us:

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elena-deutsch/
• Instagram: www.instagram.com/womeninterestedinleavinglaw
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/womeninterestedinleavinglaw

Web:https://womeninterestedinleavinglaw.com