With Us

We rarely feel just one thing at a time, and most of us were never taught what to do with what we feel. In this episode, Pattie Krohn and Paige Payne untangle the difference between feelings and emotions, welcome a guest who shares his own story of learning to understand what he felt instead of being ruled or silenced by it, and offer a simple, repeatable pattern for walking alongside someone—or yourself—through complex and confusing emotions.

"Counsel in a person's heart is deep water; but a person of understanding draws it out." —Proverbs 20:5

In this episode:

• The difference between feelings (reasoning-based, lasting) and emotions (reflexive, physical)—and why conflating the two keeps us stuck
• What tangled feelings and emotions actually feel like from the inside: mismatched signals, shame layered on shame, and the pull toward either suppressing or being ruled by what we feel
• A guest shares his own story of a season when his feelings and emotions felt especially complex and confusing—and what helped him begin to untangle them
• What Scripture reveals about a God who feels—and a Savior whose feelings and emotions are not theoretical, but actual
• A simple framework for engaging emotions well: Identify, Examine, Evaluate, Act
• Practical ways to walk alongside someone in their feelings and emotions without rushing to fix, shame, or dismiss them

Resources mentioned:

• Untangling Emotions — J. Alasdair Groves & Winston T. Smith — available wherever books are sold
• Emotionally Healthy Spirituality — Peter Scazzero — available wherever books are sold
• Alasdair Groves, "Why Can't I Control My Emotions?" — Where Life and Scripture Meet (CCEF Podcast), March 13, 2024
• 3Crosses Church Care Page & Care Sheets and additional resources
• Proverbs 20:5; Isaiah 53:3–5; James 5:13 — biblegateway.com
• https://openemotionwheel.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/07/open-emotion-wheel_1_1.pdf

For Further Support: If this episode surfaced a feeling you've been carrying alone—one you've suppressed, or one that's been carrying you—you don't have to untangle it by yourself. Consider reaching out to a trusted friend, pastor, or counselor, and if trauma or abuse is part of what you're feeling, pastoral or clinical counseling is a wise next step, not a failure of faith.

Share With Us: If this episode resonated, share it with someone who needs it, and leave a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify—it helps more people find the show.

Forgiveness is a word that gets used so often it starts to lose its shape. Culture hands us two competing scripts—"just get over it and move on," or "it has to be earned, so cut them off"—and both leave God out entirely. In this episode, Pattie Krohn and Paige Payne give forgiveness its actual shape: what it feels like to be stuck in unforgiveness, what the Bible actually means by forgiveness versus reconciliation, and why Christians are forgiven in order to be set free from the slavery of unforgiveness. A guest joins to share what forgiveness has cost them—and what it has set them free to become.

"Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving one another, just as God also forgave you in Christ." — Ephesians 4:32

In this episode:

• The quiet, often-missed signs of unforgiveness—restlessness, resentment, cynicism, and "moving on" instead of moving through pain
• The difference between forgiveness (unconditional and internal) and reconciliation (conditional on repentance)—and why conflating the two leaves people stuck
• Recognizing and releasing the debt: what we actually owe one another, and why the release belongs to God, not to us
• A guest shares their personal story of what forgiveness has cost—and the freedom it brought
• An Ask–Initiate–Invite pathway for walking alongside someone who is stuck
• Rachael Denhollander's public confrontation of Larry Nassar as a picture of holding forgiveness and justice together, rather than as opposites
• Why "forgiving yourself" doesn't actually work—and what to reach for instead
• How to discern whether reconciliation is wise, possible, or unsafe

Resources mentioned:

• Forgive: Why Should I and How Can I? — Timothy Keller — available wherever books are sold
• “Rebuilding Broken Trust” — Alasdair Groves, Journal of Biblical Counseling 35:2 — ccef.org
• “‘I Just Can’t Forgive Myself’: A Biblical Alternative to Self-Forgiveness” — Robert D. Jones, Journal of Biblical Counseling 14:2 — ccef.org
• “How to Discern True Repentance When Serious Sin Has Occurred” — Darby Strickland, Journal of Biblical Counseling 34:3 — ccef.org
• Is It Abuse? — Darby Strickland — available wherever books are sold
• 3Crosses Church Care Page & Care Sheets for additional resources
• Matthew 18:21–35; Matthew 6:14–15; Matthew 5:23–24; Romans 13:8; Romans 12:19; Romans 6:23 — biblegateway.com

For Further Support:

If you are holding a debt right now—someone who hurt you deeply, and you don't know how to let it go—forgiveness does not mean it didn't matter. It mattered. Releasing that debt to God is not weakness; it's what sets you free from carrying it. If you are discerning whether it's wise to trust again, caution is not sin—real change takes real time. Consider reaching out to a trusted pastor, counselor, or friend. You do not have to carry this alone.

If what you're navigating involves abuse: reconciliation may genuinely not be wise or safe, and that does not mean you have failed to forgive. Abuse situations require professional and legal support alongside pastoral care.

• National Domestic Violence Hotline: 1-800-799-7233 | Text START to 88788 | thehotline.org
• If there is immediate danger, call 911.

Share With Us:

If this episode resonated, share it with someone and leave a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify — it helps more people find the show.

Addiction is a diagnosis. A stronghold is something Scripture names. In this episode, Pattie Krohn and Paige Payne hold both together—naming what addiction and stronghold actually feel like from the inside, welcoming a guest who shares his own journey with addiction, and exploring why disease-based treatment alone isn't enough to bring down a fortress that only freedom, not willpower, can break.

"For the strength of addiction and strongholds, there is a Savior stronger." —Episode Anchor

In this episode:

• What addiction and stronghold actually feel like from the inside—the insatiable craving, the shame, the double life
• The difference between a medical diagnosis and a spiritual stronghold—and why the church needs both lenses, not just one
• Guest Ricky Wade shares his own journey with addiction and what helped him find a way out
• What Scripture says about the heart's drift toward strongholds—and the freedom only Christ gives
• Why cognitive and medical treatment alone sees just a 3–5% long-term success rate—and what that gap reveals
• Practical ways to walk alongside someone caught in addiction without giving up on them

Resources mentioned:

• Addictions: A Banquet in the Grave — Edward T. Welch — available wherever books are sold
• Extravagant Grace — Barbara Duguid — available wherever books are sold
• CCEF Podcast, "Addictions, Part 1 & 2," Where Life and Scripture Meet — ccef.org/podcast/addictions-part-1 and ccef.org/podcast/addictions-part-2-2
• 3Crosses Church Care Page & Care Sheets and additional resources
• Ephesians 4:18–19; Isaiah 44:20; Galatians 5:1; Luke 4:18–19 — biblegateway.com

For Further Support: If this episode surfaced an addiction or stronghold you've been carrying alone—or one someone you love is caught in—you don't have to face it alone. Consider reaching out to a trusted pastor, counselor, or a recovery-focused ministry. Getting help is not a failure of faith.

Share With Us: If this episode resonated, share it with someone and leave a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify — it helps more people find the show.

Trauma is not simply a bad memory or a season of difficulty. It is something that happens to the brain—something that rewires how a person experiences the present. In this episode, Pattie Krohn and Paige Payne carefully name what trauma and PTSD feel like from the inside: the hypervigilance that never turns off, the intrusive memories that enter without permission, the shame that becomes woven into identity. They explore what Scripture says about extreme suffering—and point to the One who has been in the darkest places and will go with us.

“Whom trauma threatens to destroy, Jesus seeks to restore.” —Episode Anchor

In this episode:

• The four features of trauma and PTSD: hypervigilance, intrusion, constriction, and shame—and what each one feels like from the inside
• Why the traumatized person is not overreacting—and what the brain is actually doing
• How Scripture names victims by name and removes the shame that does not belong to them
• Pattie and Paige share personally from their experience walking alongside those who have been traumatized
• Guests share what it was like to be in the middle of it—and what helped
• Why ‘forgive and forget’ and ‘I understand’ are never the right words—and what to say instead
• What Jesus, the One most traumatized, offers to those who suffer

Resources mentioned:

• Suffering and the Heart of God: How Trauma Destroys and Christ Restores — Diane Langberg — available wherever books are sold
• Trauma: Caring for Survivors — Darby Strickland — available wherever books are sold
• When Children Experience Trauma: Help for Parents and Caregivers — Darby Strickland — available wherever books are sold
• “Trauma” — Alistair Groves, Where Life and Scripture Meet (CCEF Podcast, October 2020) — ccef.org/podcast/trauma
• 3Crosses Church Care Page & Care Sheets and additional resources
• Psalm 91:1–2; Psalm 56:8; John 16:33; Hebrews 2:17–18; 2 Corinthians 1 — biblegateway.com
• For Further Support

If this episode surfaced a trauma you have been carrying alone, you don’t have to keep carrying it that way. Trauma and PTSD benefit from professional clinical care alongside pastoral support. Consider reaching out to a licensed counselor, your pastor, or a trusted friend.

If you are experiencing persistent flashbacks, dissociation, or thoughts of self-harm, please connect with a mental health professional. You are not alone.

In this episode:

• What eating disorders and self-harm actually feel like from the inside — control, shame, and a war going on in the soul
• The difference between disordered eating and an eating disorder, and how self-harm overlaps but stands apart
• A guest shares her own story and what helped her move from managing pain alone to depending on Jesus with it
• What Scripture reveals about the ancient instinct to control or punish the body — and why only Christ's blood is enough
• Practical ways to enter someone's story without becoming "the enemy," and when to involve medical or professional care

Resources mentioned:

• Love to Eat, Hate to Eat — Elyse Fitzpatrick — available wherever books are sold
• Eating Disorders: The Quest for Thinness — Edward T. Welch — available wherever books are sold
• Relief Without Cutting — Amy Baker — available wherever books are sold
• "Going for Blood" — Edward T. Welch — ccef.org
• 3Crosses Church Care Page & Care Sheets for additional resources
• Hosea 7:14; Galatians 5:1, 5:6; 1 Peter 2:24; Isaiah 53:5 — biblegateway.com

For further support:

If this episode surfaced a struggle with food or self-harm that you've been carrying alone, please reach out today — to a pastor, counselor, physician, or trusted friend. You are not too much, and this is not too much for God's care to reach.

• If you or someone you love is in immediate physical danger — including a medical emergency from starvation, purging, or injury — call 911 or go to the nearest emergency room.
• If self-harm or suicidal thoughts are present, call or text 988 (Suicide & Crisis Lifeline), or text HOME to 741741 (Crisis Text Line).
• National Alliance for Eating Disorders Helpline: 1-866-662-1235 | allianceforeatingdisorders.com

Share With Us:

If this episode resonated, share it with someone and leave a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify — it helps more people find the show.

In this episode:

• Why people-pleasing is not the same as love—and what makes it so hard to tell the difference
• The three ways people become too large in the people-pleaser’s world: as judge, provider, and master
• Why the solution is not better self-esteem or firmer limits—but the fear of God
• Pattie and Paige share personally from their own experiences with approval-seeking
• Guests share what it felt like to organize life around someone else’s reaction—and what it cost
• What it looks like to walk alongside a people-pleaser without shaming them or rushing them toward quick fixes
• How Jesus—warm, relational, and fiercely free—shows us what genuine love looks like

Resources mentioned:

• When People Are Big and God Is Small — Edward T. Welch — available wherever books are sold
• What Do You Think of Me? Why Do I Care? — Edward T. Welch (Teen Edition) — available wherever books are sold
• Good Boundaries and Goodbyes — Lysa TerKeurst — available wherever books are sold
• The Emotionally Destructive Relationships — Leslie Vernick — available wherever books are sold
• 3Crosses Church Care Page & Care Sheets and additional resources
• Proverbs 29:25; John 2:24–25; Mark 1:11; Romans 8:1; Psalm 16:1–3 — biblegateway.com

For Further Support:

If this episode surfaced something you’ve been managing alone—an exhaustion from keeping everyone happy, a loss of your own voice or sense of self—you don’t have to keep carrying it that way.

Please reach out to a trusted friend, pastor, or counselor.

Share With Us:

If this episode resonated, share it with someone and leave a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify—it helps more people find the show.

The best counsel skilled therapists give to those who want to help survivors of abuse: do no harm. In this episode, Pattie Krohn and Paige Payne start there—with what survivors themselves want us to know. They name what abuse and victimization actually feel like from the inside, distinguish between the two with care, and explore what God says about those who have been harmed by the power of another. They point to Jesus—the One who entered oppression to free the oppressed—and to the compassionate, clear, and comforting care that follows His example.

“Captivated by captives—Jesus entered into oppression to free the oppressed.” —Episode Anchor

In this episode:

• The difference between abuse and victimization—and why the distinction shapes how we respond
• What abuse and victimization feel like from the inside: the shame, the confusion, the physical weight, the ‘honeymoon cycle’ that keeps people stuck
• Pattie shares from her experience at a counseling center specializing in traumatized missionaries—and the counsel that shaped her care
• Guests share what it was like to name what was happening—and what helped them find their voice
• What the Bible says about victims, perpetrators, and the God who distinguishes between them
• Three movements of care: compassion, clarity, and comfort
• Why the moment of leaving an abusive situation is the most dangerous—and what caregivers need to know

Resources mentioned:

• Domestic Abuse — Darby Strickland — available wherever books are sold
• Innocence Lost: Rebuilding After Victimization — David Powlison — available wherever books are sold
• The Emotionally Destructive Marriage — Leslie Vernick — available at leslievernick.com and wherever books are sold
• On the Threshold of Hope — Diane Langberg — available wherever books are sold
• 3Crosses Church Care Page & Care Sheets and additional resources
• Luke 4:18–19; Psalm 55:6–7; Psalm 56:8; Ezekiel 34:12, 22; Philippians 2:7–8; Hebrews 13:5 — biblegateway.com

If You Are in Danger

National Domestic Violence Hotline: 1-800-799-7233 | Text START to 88788 | thehotline.org

Childhelp National Child Abuse Hotline: 1-800-422-4453

If you are in immediate danger, call 911. You do not have to figure this out alone—please reach out

If Someone You Know is in Danger

• If someone discloses active abuse or is in immediate danger: ask directly, ‘Are you safe right now?’ If there is immediate danger, call 911.
• National Domestic Violence Hotline: 1-800-799-7233 | Text START to 88788 | thehotline.org
• Childhelp National Child Abuse Hotline: 1-800-422-4453

Abuse cases require professional and legal support alongside pastoral care. Connect with a pastor, licensed counselor, and where relevant, legal authorities. Do not carry this alone—and do not let others carry it alone.

For Further Support

If this episode surfaced wounds you have been carrying—whether recent or long ago—you are not alone. What was done to you was not your fault. Healing is possible, and it begins with speaking to someone safe. Consider reaching out to a trusted pastor, licensed counselor, or one of the resources above. Asking for help is not weakness. It is one of the bravest things a person can do.

Loneliness is one of the most widespread and least talked-about experiences of our time. Nearly a third of adults feel lonely at least once a week — and yet the shame of it keeps most people silent. In this episode, Pattie Krohn and Paige Payne name what loneliness actually feels like from the inside, welcome guests who share their own seasons of painful isolation, and explore what it looks like to walk alongside someone who feels invisible — without rushing toward solutions or pointing them to a program.

"No one has greater love than this: to lay down his life for his friends. You are my friends." — John 15:13

In this episode:

• The difference between aloneness, isolation, solitude, and loneliness — and why it matters
• Why loneliness is not a design flaw — and what God said before the Fall
• Pattie and Paige share personally from their own experiences of loneliness
• Guests share what it felt like to be in a lonely season — and what helped
• What it looks like to show up for someone who is lonely without trying to fix it

Resources mentioned:

• Tori Comes Out of Her Shell: When You Are Lonely — Jayne V. Clark — available wherever books are sold
• The Company We Keep: In Search of Biblical Friendship — Jonathan Holmes — available wherever books are sold
• 3Crosses Church Care Page & Care Sheets and additional resources
• Genesis 2:18; John 15:13; John 11:35; Psalm 34:18 — biblegateway.com

For further support: If this episode surfaced a loneliness you've been carrying alone, you don't have to keep carrying it that way. Consider reaching out to a trusted friend, pastor, or counselor. Asking for connection is not weakness — it is wisdom.

Share With Us: If this episode resonated, share it with someone and leave a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify — it helps more people find the show.

Almost everyone is navigating at least one hard relationship. But not every hard relationship is the same — and knowing the difference changes everything. In this episode, Pattie Krohn and Paige Payne reframe the conversation from boundaries to wise love, welcome a guest who shares their personal journey through a difficult relationship, and explore what it looks like to walk alongside someone who is exhausted, confused, and unsure whether they are the problem.

"Let love be without hypocrisy. Detest evil; cling to what is good. Love one another deeply as brothers and sisters." — Romans 12:9–10

In this episode:

• The difference between a disappointing, difficult, and destructive relationship, and why the distinction matters
• What it feels like from the inside — the exhaustion, the shame, the spiritual confusion
• Pattie and Paige share personally from their own experiences of unhealthy relationships
• A guest opens up about what wise love required of them — and what it cost
• How to walk alongside someone in a hard relationship without handing them a formula

Resources mentioned:

• Emotionally Destructive Relationships — Leslie Vernick — available wherever books are sold
• When People Are Big and God Is Small — Edward T. Welch — available wherever books are sold
• Relationships: A Mess Worth Making — Timothy Lane & Paul David Tripp — available wherever books are sold
• 3Crosses Church Care Page & Care Sheets and additional resources
• Romans 12:9–10; John 2:24–25; John 13:1–17 — biblegateway.com

For further support: If you are in a relationship where there is physical danger, do not walk away from this alone. Reach out for help today.

• National Domestic Violence Hotline: 1-800-799-7233
• Text START to 88788
• If there is immediate danger, call 911

Share With Us: If this episode resonated, share it with someone and leave a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify — it helps more people find the show.

Anger is not what we are — it is a language of the heart. And conflict is the ground anger grows in. In this episode, Pattie Krohn and Paige Payne get honest about their own experiences with anger, welcome a guest who shares their personal story, and explore what it looks like to walk alongside someone locked in conflict — without rushing to fix, without taking sides, and without looking away.

"Be angry and do not sin. Don't let the sun go down on your anger, and don't give the devil an opportunity." — Ephesians 4:26–27

In this episode:

• What anger actually feels like: the hot side, the cold side, and the confused middle
• Why anger itself is not a sin, but how the Fall corrupts it into something destructive
• Pattie and Paige share personally from their own experiences of anger and conflict
• A guest shares their story of walking through conflict and what shifted
• Practical ways to walk alongside someone in anger without being swept into it

Resources mentioned:

• Good and Angry — David Powlison — available wherever books are sold
• Resolving Everyday Conflicts — Ken Sande — available wherever books are sold
• CCEF Podcast: "Anger" — Ed Welch and Myriam Hertzog — ccef.org/podcast
• 3Crosses Church Care Page & Care Sheets and additional resources
• Ephesians 4:26–27; Exodus 34:6; Titus 3:3–5; Psalm 4 — biblegateway.com

For further support: If conflict or anger is causing real harm in your relationships, you don't have to navigate it alone. Consider reaching out to a trusted pastor, counselor, or friend. If anger has become dangerous — involving threats or violence — please contact appropriate authorities or a licensed counselor immediately.

Share With Us: If this episode resonated, share it with someone and leave a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify — it helps more people find the show.