Workforce Therapy Files

File 30: In today's file, the team interviews Dr. Debra Clary her pursuit of the power of curiosity. Deb has had a fascinating career path. She's worked in executive roles at Frito-Lay, Coca-Cola, Papa John's, Brown-Forman and Humana. Now, she's helping organizations to better understand how curiosity impacts its performance, all because of an intriguing question.

Meet Deb Clary

Deb was the first person in her family to graduate from college. She completed her bachelor's degree at Michigan State University and earned her doctorate in leadership and organizational development, from George Washington University.

Her starting role at Frito-Lay was different from what she'd imagined it'd be, but it yielded extremely valuable insights for her career. She spent roughly a decade there, progressing through the ranks. She joined Coca-Cola in various sales, marketing and global roles. Her global client was Papa John's. They eventually invited her to join their organization, as the VP of Marketing and that brought her to Louisville.

Deb shares she was actually fired from Papa John's, a year into the role. She admits having come from traditional, corporate environments, the Papa John's culture was much less-structured and entrepreneurial. Deb assumed a VP of Strategy role in Brown-Forman's wine division, where she stayed for the next 3 years.

Learning that there are significant differences in culture and how those differences manifest, especially in terms of human behavior, was a key milestone. It provided insights into how organizations could create leaders that could have greater impact and contribution, in a way that was warm and welcoming.

As Deb was completing her dissertation for her doctorate, she encountered someone from Humana. It lead to a role in a leadership institute Humana was developing. She eventually took on the challenge of leading the institute, which cultivated Humana's top 1,000 leaders. Deb remained with Human for 18 years.

Deb recounts she was sitting next to her CEO, who asked her, "Do you think curiosity can be learned, or is it innate?" It was an intriguing question. After doing a deep dive into the research around that topic, she mentioned to the CEO that curiosity could indeed be learned.

This question ignited a spark in Debra. Surprisingly, there wasn't a lot of data as it related to the question in a corporate environment. So, she commissioned a team of researchers to do primary research on the topic. The data proved it has immense power to transform. Debra recognized a calling. She subsequently left Humana and is pushing this new revelation out into the world.

A Spark Leads to a Spotlight

A group of accountability partners surprised Deb by arranging an opportunity for all of them to meet in Louisville. It turns out the group had taken a one-woman show concept and actually pitched it to a producer. The producer agreed to take her on, in New York. It was time for Deb to start writing. She had one year to right the play, but absolutely no experience in having done it before.

About six months after the start of her writing, someone connected her with a New York playwright who would be willing to provide feedback. In his words, "This sucks." Deb had written a keynote, not a play suitable for New York.

With this realization, Deb found someone to adapt it to stage (a phrase she'd never heard before). She, later, found a director, Jessica De La Rosa. She agreed to work on the first act, to see if the two of them could work together. They turned out to be a great match.

Deb's play is called, "A Curious Woman." It's about being a woman in corporate America, during the 80s and 90s. It's written as a comedy. Interestingly, as a young girl, Deb's dream was to be a standup comic. She did standup comedy on the weekends, in Detroit, during the Frito-Lay days.

The Curiosity Assessment

This is a tool Deb developed to help companies benefit from the power of curiosity. The research discussed earlier in the conversation highlighted a few important findings:

• Curiosity can be learned.
• Curiosity is contagious.
• Curiosity can be measured.

They developed a validated assessment to measure curiosity, which lasts 6-8 minutes. It focuses on four important factors related to one's curiosity curve, including exploration, openness to new ideas, focused engagement, and inspirational creativity.

The research data indicates that when you have a culture of curiosity, which is most-often driven by the leader, three significant things will occur:

• You drive retention.
• It promotes job satisfaction.
• It fosters engagement.

Deb will assess each member of the organization. It will yield an organizational score for each of the four factors, a total score, a team score, and an individual score. It helps individuals to see how they fit into their team and the organization, at large.

The findings can highlight drivers of friction, especially when a direct report is extremely curious, but is working with a manager or leader who is less so. Luckily, curiosity can be learned and developed. This realization can lead to positive shifts for leaders.

In a recent workshop for the National Presidents Association, a group of women CEOs, the participants took the assessment. Interestingly, the conversation regarding the results focused on their spouses and children. It highlighted areas a friction and why it may be occurring at home. The point is that when you are aware of your curiosity level, real change can happen.

How Does Deb Clary Define Curiosity?

Deb explains that curiosity is being generally interested in others and in other situations. Consider how many questions a child asks on a daily basis. Juxtapose that with the number asked by the typical adult. Over time, we have a tendence to become incurious.

We've all heard the saying, "Curiosity killed the cat." Deb included it her forthcoming book, which should be release this fall. Actually, there's more to the sentence. The full version is, "Curiosity killed the cat, but satisfaction brought it back." (William Shakespeare, 1589)

Interested in Contacting Debra Clary to Learn More?

Website: https://debraclary.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/drdebraclary

Before We Leave

We wanted to let you know the WTF Podcast is going to have a booth at the upcoming 2025 KYSHRM Conference, August 26-28, at the Central Bank Center in Lexington, KY. Come visit us at Booth 113. Be a guest for one our podcast mini-interviews!

That's where we'll leave the conversation for today. Before we close the file, we invite you to reach out to us with questions, suggestions or other comments. We'd love to hear from you.

Did You Enjoy Today's Conversation?

Visit www.WorkforceTherapyFiles.com to listen to additional WTF files or to let us know you'd like to be a guest on an upcoming file.

Need Help Supporting Your Company's Recruiting and Staffing Goals?

We're here to help. You can contact us via our individual websites, depending on your specific needs or questions:

· Jamie Swaim, SPHR – www.ParcelKnows.com

· Molley Ricketts – www.IncipioWorks.com

· Jason Heflin – www.CrowdSouth.com

We hope you found this file insightful and helpful. Thank you for listening!

File 29: In today's file, the team discusses talent pipelines, workforce development and the real drivers behind economic growth in Kentucky. We welcome Emily Sayers, Kentucky's Executive Director of Workforce Solutions at the Kentucky Community and Technical College System.

Meet Emily Sayers

Emily serves as the Executive Director in the Cabinet for Workforce and Economic Development, at KCTCS. She may have the longest title for anyone we've interviewed on the podcast. There are 16 workforce solutions divisions across Kentucky. This aligns with the 16 colleges within KCTCS. The focus is on business engagement, as well as the upskilling and reskilling of Kentucky's workforce.

Emily originally worked at the Gateway Community and Technical College in northern Kentucky. She viewed her role there as being a community resource for employers, beyond workforce. She often connected employers with any number of others who could play a part in helping them to address specific issues they were facing.

Emily and here team could design and deliver customized training to assist employers. It could range from typical skills, such as MIG welding, to more adapted solutions including the welding, but in combination with a range of other company-specific needs, including managerial training. The training could be delivered onsite or at a campus and during times that worked best for the employer, including 3rd shift time slots. It would be a completely customized experienced.

The goal for KCTCS is to move at the speed of business. They want to be the incubator for new programming, technologies and more.

Timeline for New Orientation Programs and Other Programs

Jamie asks Emily about the timeline involved in delivering programs for businesses. Orientation upskilling is a common type of program KCTCS develops for employers, including manufacturing sites, ranging from highly technical processes to basic information regarding two-step verification.

If the curriculum already exists, KCTCS could deliver the new program in a week, assuming a subject matter expert can be identified and engaged. This comes back to the focus on moving at the speed of business.

Other types of programs that are purely conceptual, at the outset, would require more time. It usually comes down to how prepared the employer is and what their timeline requirements are.

Emily mentions there's no real standard. This manifests in KCTCS working in the gray, as the development of a new program evolves.

Customized Programs for the Community

Jason comments how KCTCS can customize programs based on needs of a community. For instance, training heavy equipment operators. Once a successful program is developed, it may be possible for KCTCS to leverage parts or all of the training for other situations/locations.

Are KCTCS Resources Available to Companies outside of Kentucky?

Jason asks Emily if employers in other states can leverage the capabilities of KCTCS? While other states may offer similar services, actually, KCTCS does a lot of work in Tennessee, Indiana, Ohio, Virginia and other border states.

Those non-Kentucky states may not have access to state incentives, but there are still opportunities for agile training and program development. KCTCS may be able to partner with other non-profits to assist in opportunities with those employers.

How Does KCTCS Approach the Sustainability of the Programs It Develops?

It depends on the situation. Some programs may move to the academic-side of Kentucky Community and Technical College System. They would be supported through that area. However, on the workforce development-side of the System, if there is an ongoing need by the employer, KCTCS can arrange to maintain that program. If the needs have moved beyond the initial program, the original program may sunset as resources are focused on developing more up-to-date programs.

Jason notes how the community college system can be much more flexible and adaptive, when compared to traditional 4-year universities.

Partnerships Across Kentucky

Emily describes some of the partnerships they maintain across the state. One is the with the Strategic Workforce and Talent Team (SWATT). It's comprised of many different entities. This include (but are not limited to) KCTCS, Department for Education and Labor, Cabinet for Economic Development, the Kentucky Chamber, and others. The goal of the partnership is ease of use for the employer. It brings all of Kentucky's incentives and resources for employers in a clear format. It helps to streamline the conversation between employers and the available providers, while reducing confusion and redundancy.

SWATT is still in its early days. There's an identified effort to educate employers on how to access these program resources.

How Do Employers Pay for KCTCS Services?

Emily highlights KCTCS-TRAINS funding. This is an allocation of funds specifically for the 16 colleges in the system. It is used to offset the cost to employers related to upskilling and reskilling the incumbent workforce. It can cover up to 75% of the cost for an employer to have its customized training program.

Partner organizations and other groups may be able to be identified to cover the remaining 25% of the cost.

A 10% administration fee is also charged, for KCTCS to maintain the program.

These funding mechanisms can ensure employers can engage in workforce development activities, including customize programs, rather than pre-packaged programs that are offered by other vendors.

How Many Employees Must Be Kentucky-Based for the Employer to Access the Incentives?

Surprisingly, there is no minimum requirement. If the business is operating in Kentucky, it can have access to the programs, including the KCTCS-TRAINS funding.

Emily explains there are other parameters including training a certain number of people and spending a certain amount of money. Nevertheless, this is an extremely valuable resource for employers.

One of the objectives is to make this easy for employers to understand and participate. Partnering with KCTCS can make the development of the new program and achieving the results much less complicated that one would imagine. Combine that with the financial incentives and it's clear most of the traditional roadblocks have been eliminated.

Are there Commonly Overlooked Services Available from KCTCS?

Jamie asks if there are services Emily wishes more employers would ask about or take advantage of? The number one service is TRAINS funding. The next, even for out-of-state employers is the customized training available from KCTCS, whether the training takes place at one of their locations or at the employer's location. The agile and flexible ability of the services is a tremendous benefit. KCTCS will come to you, which is extremely advantageous for employers in remote or rural locations.

The Education First Employers Initiative is another important service. Emily explains this is a partnership between KCTCS colleges and Kentucky businesses. Participating businesses offer flexible scheduling, tuition assistance, and a commitment to meet or exceed a living wage.

Can KCTCS Support Remote or Hybrid-Work Arrangements?

Yes. By leveraging the Owensboro Community and Technical College infrastructure, KCTCS offer FlexTrain. This is an LMS for employers involving customized training to support remote or hybrid staff needs.

Virtual reality learning is another capability offered by KCTCS.

Interested in Contacting Emily Sayers to Learn More?

Website: https://kctcs.edu/

Phone: (877) 528-2748

Before We Leave

We wanted to let you know the WTF Podcast is going to have a booth at the upcoming 2025 KYSHRM Conference, August 26-28, at the Central Bank Center in Lexington, KY. Come visit us at Booth 113. Be a guest for one our podcast mini-interviews!

That's where we'll leave the conversation for today. Before we close the file, we invite you to reach out to us with questions, suggestions or other comments. We'd love to hear from you.

Did You Enjoy Today's Conversation?

Visit www.WorkforceTherapyFiles.com to listen to additional WTF files or to let us know you'd like to be a guest on an upcoming file.

Need Help Supporting Your Company's Recruiting and Staffing Goals?

We're here to help. You can contact us via our individual websites, depending on your specific needs or questions:

· Jamie Swaim, SPHR – www.ParcelKnows.com

· Molley Ricketts – www.IncipioWorks.com

· Jason Heflin – www.CrowdSouth.com

We hope you found this file insightful and helpful. Thank you for listening!

File 28: In today's file, the team addresses a serious topic. Active aggressor or active shooter situations are becoming more common that we'd like to admit. There are steps you can take to prepare yourself and your organization for this type emergency. We welcome the Eric Culver and Dale Massey, founders of STAT, a company focused on providing active aggressor training. They'll share advice and insights on preparing for this dangerous situation.

Editor's Note: This file may not be suitable for all audiences, given the subject matter that will be discussed.

Meet Eric and Dale

Eric started with the Jefferson County Police in 2001. His father is a retired police officer. After 7 years, he joined the FBI. Eric later returned to the police department, as a member of the SWAT team. The mission of the SWAT team is to save lives. He remained part of SWAT for 16 years and eventually retired after serving 21 years with the police force.

Dale joined the police department in 2000. Dale eventually joined SWAT as the Assistant Commander. He eventually retired from the SWAT, as the Team Commander in 2021. He credits Eric's effort in getting the Louisville's SWAT team established as one of about 50 full-time teams in the US.

Eric came up with a concept to train people, once he and Dale retired. That was the genesis of their company, STAT, based out of Louisville, Kentucky.

What Inspired Eric and Dale to Create a Program for Active Aggressor Training?

Eric seriously enjoyed being part of SWAT, a small-unit team that worked to hone the skill sets of individual members to function as an effective team. When bad things happened, he wanted to be the one who got the call. Eric recalls joining the police department 1 week before 9/11.

SWAT spent most of its time working around active-shooter situations. Over time, the term evolved into active aggressor or armed assailant. They developed a response to the city, modeled off of what they learned from a program called, Rescue Task Force. It's a collaboration between police, fire and EMS developed to help them more effectively respond to scenes.

There have been notable situations in our country's past, during which this type of integration and execution were not thoroughly planned and the results were tragic. Think back to Columbine, Standard Gravure, and others.

Dale and Eric were called to the 2018 J-Town Kroger, active-shooter incident. Eric was one of the first officers to enter the building.

Eric comments that while he and Dale have 20+ years of training for these types of situations, the regular individual who may be caught in a situation does not. They decided to build a program to provide these services to individuals and organizations. Their approach is to empower and educate people in a positive way.

Why Do People Tend to Avoid the Topic?

Dale explains that people often don't want to think about what could happen. "That'll never happen to me" is an approach people want to believe. However, just in Louisville, we've experienced the Standard Gravure, J-Town Kroger and the Old National Bank shootings. These events are actually under-reported.

It takes effort to prepare, plan and train for these potential situations. Most people simple prefer to take the easy approach, which is to ignore the possibility. STAT focuses on empowering people; not scaring them. In the event something does happen, you'll have options, because you've taken steps to prepare yourself and your organization.

It's Similar to an Emergency Action Plan (EAP)

Many people take time to prepare for a fire or tornado. Preparing for an active aggressor situation is a similar methodology.

STAT Offers Services to Businesses

STAT provides a range of services to businesses and organizations. A comprehensive, threat assessment is the first step. STAT will do an onsite assessment of your business environment, security procedures, camera surveillance, etc. It will be simple, but impactful and most importantly, actionable.

STAT works closely with Homeland Security. They also do a lot of work with non-profit organizations. Many are able to get grant money to offset some or all of the cost.

In addition to site assessments, they offer classroom training, active aggressor training, de-escalation training, medical-based training, live scenarios, custom-content for specific needs, and much more.

Jaime has experienced training sessions provided by STAT. There were are few ah-ha moments. One fact she realized is that your typical office first-aid kit is not prepared for this type of emergency. Jamie has been first-aid certified and has completed OSHA-30 training, in addition to other workplace safety training sessions. None of them prepared her for how to pack a wound or apply a tourniquet. STAT taught her that valuable skill.

Jamie also appreciates the tips and advice STAT offered regarding the supplies and equipment that should be part of the first-aid kits. She strongly recommends people consider taking these courses, based on her personal experience.

Dale points out that the body has 6 important arteries. If one of them were to get severed, a person only has 3 minutes before they bleed out. Knowing how to properly apply a tourniquet and having several of them on hand, can save a life. If the tourniquet is not applied within 1 minute of sustaining the injury, that person will most-likely pass out. This is a time-sensitive event. It's a skill that's not hard to learn. But it requires training and preparation.

Building Redundancy in the EAP

What if your organization has designated a specific individual to be responsible for the medical kits and other procedures, but that person is absent or incapacitated on the day of the event? It's important to build redundancy into your Emergency Action Plan. This relates to both personnel and equipment, such as medical kits. You have to plan for contingencies.

Dale recommends placing the medial kits with or near the AEDs you already have onsite.

Is Run, Hide, Fight Still an Appropriate Protocol?

Eric explains that this depends on the situation. He begins with some simple definitions. If 1-2 people are shot or attacked at a workplace, it's considered workplace violence. If 3 or fewer are impacted, it's considered active shooter/active aggressor. If 4 or more are injured, it's considered to be a mass casualty situation.

The federal government developed the Run, Hide, Fight paradigm in the early 2000s. It was the first methodology for addressing an active aggressor situation. It was a system that employed a linear approach to dealing with the situation. Unfortunately, most people don't have a mindset that follows this methodology.

The STAT Mindset – Escape, Evade, Engage

STAT offers training that focuses not on your skillset, but rather, on your mindset. The human mind learns in patterns of 3. Additionally, the letter "E" is the most commonly used letter. Based on these factors, STAT developed training around Escape, Evade, Engage. It's designed to work everywhere, not just at the office.

Escape, Evade, Engage is a decision-making process that gives you options. The goal is to get you thinking, not simply reacting.

Eric uses the example of the Old National Bank shooting. Some people decided to run, but once they got out into the street, they turned around to watch. Unfortunately, they were still getting shot at, because they stopped. Instead, they should have continued to run and extend the distance between themselves and the active threat.

Is STAT Training Applicable for Schools and Educators?

Jason has school-aged children and he thinks about these kinds of topics when he drops off his kids at school, especially at the start of the school year. He asks if STAT provides training for schools, teachers and staff?

STAT does a lot of training with schools. Both Dale and Eric are still sworn police officers, in retirement. For instance, they are trying to make Taylorsville and Spencer County, a test-case for the country. There are actually no regulations pertaining to this training. Schools are required to have resource officers (SROs), but there's no specific funding.

The STAT team is also developing content for middle school and high school students.

Many schools are hesitant to engage STAT-based services. JCPS, in Louisville, just implemented its own police force. Are they properly equipped and trained for active aggressor situations? A single SRO isn't the answer for a typical school. A school should have layers of security.

STAT uses the CPTED system. The acronym stands for Crime Prevention Through Environmental Design. It helps schools to incorporate security measures into the esthetic environment the school wants to maintain. It creates reactionary-gap time, allowing you to make critical decisions in a time of crisis.

Dale stresses the importance of building a safety-culture inside your organization. You can have the tools in place, but if the personnel aren't taking it seriously, your system is primed to fail. People need to buy into the system so they actively check things and look for breakdowns in the system, on a regular basis. This can be as simple as ensuring exterior doors are locked to prevent an unauthorized individual from gaining access.

Eric mentions the school shooting in Uvalde, Texas. It was an epic failure, across the board. It highlights the fact that the first responder coming to may not be properly prepared to engage. The average police officer in the US only receives about 4 hours of active shooter response training.

In the case of a business, if you have multiple facilities that have been trained in some type of EAP, but the point person is transferred to a different facility, are the EAPs the same? Would there instead be a level of confusion that could be avoided with a standard plan? STAT is helping to provide that type of system.

Jamie comments that some states are now requiring this type of training for organizations with a certain number of people. California is one such state requiring armed aggressor training. This should be much more than a surface-level, check the box, approach.

Help Is on the Way, Eventually

It's important to understand police are going to focus on going after the aggressor/shooter when they first arrive. Their focus will not be on taking care of you or rendering medical aid. This is a critical reason you need to develop the right mindset. STAT is a qualified resource and is ready to help you and your organization.

Interestingly, the average time it takes for the police to arrive on site is 15 minutes. A lot can happen in 15 minutes. We all remember doing fire drills and tornado drills in school. Have you ever practiced for an active aggressor situation? Probably not.

Students may be familiar with lock-down drills. Unfortunately, many adults don't even want to think about doing this type of drill in the workplace. Why not implement this type of drill, at least once a year to help familiarize your team with the proper mindset? STAT has developed a video program, as a cost-effective option. They've also developed webinars and have the capability to custom-design a training program for your specific situation.

You Won't Rise to the Occasion; You'll Fall to Your Level of Training

There's a mistaken belief that you, or someone around you, will suddenly know how to respond to an active aggressor situation (or some other crisis). Unfortunately, that's usually a myth. The reality is most people will fall to their level of training on how to deal with the situation. Most often, it doesn't go the way you'd hoped.

This is about developing a mindset and practicing what to do, should the situation arise at your workplace, church, school, etc.

Dale points out that communication is critical. When an employee is laid-off or terminated, how does the organization communicate the situation? What would happen if that hasn't been effectively communicated and the individual shows up the next day intending to do harm? How easy would it be for that person to gain access and cause a tragic result? We may need to rethink how we address certain issues. You don't need to get into the specifics of why the person is being terminated, but they need to understand the individual should not be let back into the facility.

But We've Always Done It this Way

Molley asks "How could HR or other leaders reduce the risk of an active aggressor situation involving a termination?" Eric suggests not bringing the individual into your office for that conversation. You've allowed what could become a volatile situation to occur in a compromising location. You may have positioned the conversation to occur in a way that the impacted individual is situated between you and the exit. You might be trapped in the room.

Instead, consider doing an offsite termination. If that's not practicable, consider doing it in the lobby or parking lot, thus preventing immediate access to the facility. Consider this the first layer.

The second layer of protection is to have a plan for identifying your exit routes, enabling you to Escape, Evade, Engage, if the situation warrants it.

This is definitely a paradigm-shift for HR professionals. At the same time, Dale recommends that the termination is never handled in a one-on-one basis. Bring someone with you. Police refer to this a "contact and cover." This is about your personal safety and that of others.

Jamie's Advice to HR Professionals

Over the years, Jamie has added a number of considerations and steps to her procedures. Make sure you have someone outside of the room, whom you can contact if the situation escalates. Do you have a panic button that goes to internal security and to local authorities?

Have you reached out to local authorities to familiarize them with the layout of your facility and to establish a list of people who can be contacted, when necessary?

If a termination is planned, consider having an off-duty police officer in the parking lot, lobby or in the space to provide some additional security.

Be careful about the procedure allowing people to obtain their personal effects. If they have items in their locker, office or car, consider other ways to transfer those items. Use a courier to deliver those items, or consider recovering those items for the individual. It may be a better alternative to allowing the person to go back to their office.

While you can't anticipate every issue, it's important that you've taken the time to make some level of preparation, rather than trying to do so in the moment.

Are You a Second-Chance Employer?

This isn't about being judgy or making assumptions about people. Rather, it's about being proactive in your mindset. It's a challenge to find the balance.

Dale recommends employers define what types of crimes would they allow and which will be disallowed, in terms of the second-chance candidate's past. Establish a standard. You'll get a sense of the person's commitment to moving forward during the interview, but you need to have boundaries.

Eric relates this back to his career as a police officer. While he always tried to give the person the benefit of the doubt during an engagement, he always had a plan of action. If the situation was going bad, he already knew how he would exit, escape, evade and engage. He recommends the moment you detect a sign that something is wrong, resist the temptation to second-guess yourself. STAT would rather you make a bad decision, than no decision. You can fix a bad decision. If you make no decision, someone else will exert a decision on you.

Parting Thoughts from Eric and Dale

Dale points out there's a difference between compliance-based and regulatory-based training, verses what STAT offers. If you want impactful training that can save lives, consider programs such as what STAT has developed. Training budgets are extremely limited. The training STAT provides is portable. It'll go with you, wherever you go.

STAT has actually had survivors validate the scenarios they introduce during training sessions. They've developed scenarios that combine perspectives from both a first responder's prospective and a survivor's perspective. It's reality based.

Eric points out that their training can be done in phases or customized to your budget. It's an investment in your people. You're providing your people a skillset they can share with their families and friends. The team at STAT does this because they want people to know they can do something and not just be a victim.

Jason points out that safety is a fantastic gift. Jamie mentions that after attending STAT training, she's gone home and discussed it with her family, because is more than work training; it's life training for our communities and the communities we're serving.

Interested in Contacting STAT for Your Organization?

Website: ActiveAggressor.com

Phone: (502) 576-7856

Before We Leave

We wanted to let you know the WTF Podcast is going to have a booth at the upcoming 2025 KYSHRM Conference, August 26-28, at the Central Bank Center in Lexington, KY. Come visit us at Booth 113. Be a guest for one our podcast mini-interviews!

That's where we'll leave the conversation for today. Before we close the file, we invite you to reach out to us with questions, suggestions or other comments. We'd love to hear from you.

Did You Enjoy Today's Conversation?

Visit www.WorkforceTherapyFiles.com to listen to additional WTF files or to let us know you'd like to be a guest on an upcoming file.

Need Help Supporting Your Company's Recruiting and Staffing Goals?

We're here to help. You can contact us via our individual websites, depending on your specific needs or questions:

· Jamie Swaim, SPHR – www.ParcelKnows.com

· Molley Ricketts – www.IncipioWorks.com

· Jason Heflin – www.CrowdSouth.com

We hope you found this file insightful and helpful. Thank you for listening!

File 27: In today's file, the team explores the benefits of vision boards and life boards. They each talk about how they approach these tools in their own lives. This conversation springs from a new experience Jamie is working through that took an unexpected turn, at the outset. The team welcomes their podcast producer, Jim Ray, to participate with them in the discussion.

The Executive Coaching Experience

Jamie shares that she's recently begun working with an executive coach at Building Champions. One way the coach has challenged her is to be more intentional about herself. That came as a bit of a surprise. It wasn't exactly what Jamie was anticipating, although she knows it's been an area she's often overlooked, while helping others.

Jamie asks Molley whether she uses a vision board and to explain her overall life-planning process. When Molley's kids were young, the family would create vision boards during the Thanksgiving break. It was interesting to see how those young brains worked. They'd cutout pictures and color the poster board based on where they saw themselves in a year. As a result, it became apparent that they needed to do something more.

While Molley sees the value in using a vision board, life-planning is bigger than that. Assuming the average lifespan is between 70 and 80 years old, she suggests making a grid comprised of 80 squares. Put an X in each of the boxes that represents as year, up to your current age. The visual is typically a grid with many fewer boxes remaining, that you might have initially thought. Is it worth being as stressed out as we probably are? Where do we want to be in 5-10 years? What will retirement look like? How do we begin taking steps to make the life we want to live in retirement?

Jamie admits when she considers what the future is going to look like, she has trouble bringing that vision into focus. Jason suggests that may be one of the reasons she elected to begin working with a coach. Jamie comments she feels she does a nice job of talking about intentionality in the professional setting, but when that conversation is focused inward, she struggles.

Producer Jim relates to Jamie. As a sales professional and sales manager, he knows how to craft a territory strategy for revenue growth, it becomes much more difficult on the personal level. You realize how quickly time has passed. The thing we used to value may no longer hold as much value in our lives. He's never built a vision board, so he's looking forward to this discussion.

Creating a Vision Board and a Life Board

Molley explains how someone might view a vision board, until they finally accomplish one of those items on the board. Then, the process, focus and meaning begins to fall into place. Jason admits it may feel a little "woo-woo." But, by placing an item on your vision board, it holds you accountable. In fact, he's been doing vision boards for roughly 20 years.

Jason divides his board into a work column and a personal column. There might be 4-10 items he lists that he really wants to accomplish in the upcoming year. The important aspect is that it's measurable. It may be a dollar amount, a specific number of days, or some other trackable objective. This way, he "knows what done looks like."

Interestingly, he also resists removing items from his board, unless there's a major intervening factor. He wants this board to stare him in the face. While his primary board is a 1-year timeframe. He also creates a 3-year, 5-year and 10-year version, enabling him to focus on long-term aspirations.

At age 50, Jason comments that understanding the limited time he has left may sound a bit morbid. Molley recasts that perspective as, "How you're going to feel your joy." These are an outline of the steps he'll take to achieve that joy.

Jamie asks how Jason and Molley got started with their vision boards. Jason had just left a corporate job. He wanted to take a year off. The board was a collection of activities he wanted to experiment with, such as consulting, becoming fractional senior leader for a small company, etc. Within 4 weeks of leaving his corporate job, he became a fractional marketing VP and had a consulting client. He was astonished by how quickly these items became realities. He knew it was time to take another crack at his vision board.

Jason explains that once he added something to the board, he'd take time to work backwards to determine what would have to happen in order for that vision to become manifest. For most motivated professionals, having an item on a vision board can be a significant source of focus and determination.

Jamie came up through her education learning about servant-leadership. There was a focus on helping others to live the lives they wanted to live. When she took her first step at creating a vision board, it was very emotional for her. It was strange to begin thinking about what she wanted, as opposed to having to think about what everybody else wanted.

Jason points out that he has to remind himself to determine whether a vision is focusing on something he wants, or rather something he thinks he should do because others in his circle are doing it. How many times are our wants/desires constructed by other people? He recommends you find out what's right for you. While you may not have a defined concept of the end state, you can at least begin to clarify what the next several steps will look like.

Molley shares that her vision boarding experience began when she got laid off. She'd spent the previous 11 years sacrificing for her marriage and kids. He role involved significant travel. She admits she felt emotionally tied to the job. It defined who she was. When she got laid off, she was devastated.

She took 2 weeks to sulk and drink too much wine. After that, she committed to never letting someone else control her mind the way that job had done. After some time, she admitted to herself that she didn't want to work as hard has she'd been doing. She began to understand the fallacy of the need to keep up with the Jones. After all, they weren't paying her mortgage.

As she began looking at the items on her vision board, she began thinking about the things she'd need to do to empower herself to get there. The hard part was balancing that with her husband and kids. Looking back from 2008 onward, it's been a gamechanger. There's been a realization that the people who matter the most are her husband and two kids; everyone else is a bonus.

From a practical standpoint, Molley admits she hopes to be a caretaker in the lives of her grandchildren. So, what does she need to do to ensure that happens? If she wants to take her family on 1 trip a year, what needs to happen to make that possible? How does she begin to create those experiences?

Molley suggests you create a life board and the big items used to populate your vision boards actually come from the life board.

Striking Balance when You're Pulled in Different Directions

Jamie discusses how whenever a successful woman is presenting or speaking to a group, the question always comes up, "How do you make time to balance all of it?" She believes it's also true for men who are building a career. How do we resist setting our hair on fire, just to keep everyone else warm? We need to establish meaningful boundaries. It takes practice.

Jason adds that it may entail sacrifice. You may lose a few friends along the path. It could be clients or other opportunities that aren't fully aligned with your vision board or life board. Admittedly, it could hurt for a while. Don't let fear make those decisions for you. People plan exits all the time. There may be people on your team who are already in the process of doing so.

Jason reminds us it's important to create a life board or vision board that's specifically for ourselves, not for someone else. Maybe you're already in the right place and only need to change a few things about the place you're in to make it perfect. The key to understand is that if you don't take the time to plan for it, it'll never happen.

How Do You Include Your Family in Your Vision Work?

Admittedly, may people listening to this right now are not alone on the path. They have a spouse and possibly children. For Molley, it was an intentional conversation about a plan. When she was thinking about launching Incipio, she needed to ensure her husband was aligned with the goal and its purpose. It's a negotiation, as is involved in any relationship with a partner. It will take both of you to get there. If both are working toward "the big idea," you'll have a much greater chance of achieving that vision.

Jason stresses the importance of communication, even beyond the one you'll have with your spouse/partner. If your vision focuses on a specific role, you'll need to have a conversation with your manager so he/she can help you to plan for the steps that will eventually lead to your promotion into that role. At the same time, if it doesn't appear that will be possible, similar roles exist in other organizations. You may need to consider steps to pivot toward that transition.

Jamie Recommends a Book

Earlier in the discussion, Jamie share how her new coach recommended she focus on becoming more intentional about herself. As part of that growth, her coach suggested she begin reading Living Forward, by Michael Hyatt and Daniel Harkavy. The subtitle is: A Proven Plan to Stop Drifting and Get the Life You Want.

At the time of this recording, she's just begun reading the book. She's realizing how decisions she made and paths she pursued may not have necessarily been part of a conscious plan, but they've allowed her to arrive at the place in which she now finds herself. Was it "the drift"? She's admittedly been a high-achiever, but events in life have just happened.

Jamie is very interested in how Living Forward will impact her perspective and the resulting path. At the same time, she encourages listeners to comment on social media regarding questions, comments and thoughts about either the topic or the book, itself.

What Motivated Jamie to Engage a Coach?

Jamie admits it wasn't completely intentional. It was a service related to her current role. She frequently recommends coaching to people. However, prior to this, her only other time working with an executive coach was during her first, leadership role (years ago). The environment, issues and perspectives were much different back then, than what she's leading through today. Currently, she's in her first real executive role, while owning and running her own business. She realizes the importance of balancing those two opportunities, while not losing sight of the other important parts of her life. There are times during which, as she puts it, "It feels out of whack."

Jamie's realizing how this book is going to have a positive impact. She was surprised when the coach suggested starting the process with this particular book. However, there's clarity in understanding without having a plan for your life (and career), you're pouring from an empty cup. If this is your reality, the people in your life and around you won't be able to get the best version of you.

A point made early in the book is that achieving perfect balance may not be the objective. There's not enough time to fully balance everything. It's about figuring out the points of imbalance that match or align with your goals. Molley adds it's also about not feeling guilty about making that decision when you need to go all in for a specific period of time to make progress toward specific goals; especially when they're on your vision board or life board.

Jason reminds us that the goals we set should be our own. You need to be real with yourself. Sometimes the goal we set don't necessarily align with other goals we've established. It's okay. Just be mindful of resisting the temptation of letting other people set the goals for us.

Molley shares a conversation she had with one of her best friends. That friend reached out to apologize for not being able to be the best of friends, right now. Molley was confused, until her friend explained how busy she was with her kids. That was the reason for the comment. Molley pointed out that it's simply the season of life that friend is currently experiencing. What's important is that her friend is being intentional about building her relationships with her children. That will pay important dividends in the future. Embrace it while the season is here. Their friendship will continue to grow and thrive with time.

It's important to understand you may need to limit or walk away from friends who aren't willing to support those items on your vision board, because they don't necessarily agree with them. Then there are those who seem completely adrift. While they can still be your friends, resist the urge to go to them for advice about specific issues. They probably won't understand it, anyway. The risk is the older we get, the more difficult it becomes to make new friends. It might be a risk worth taking.

We'd like to encourage you to send us your favorite resources, via the Workforce Therapy Files website or on our social media channels. We might mention them on an upcoming file.

Before We Leave

We wanted to let you know the WTF Podcast is going to have a booth at the upcoming 2025 KYSHRM Conference, August 26-28, at the Central Bank Center in Lexington, KY. Come visit us at Booth 113. Be a guest for one our podcast mini-interviews!

That's where we'll leave the conversation for today. Before we close the file, we invite you to reach out to us with questions, suggestions or other comments. We'd love to hear from you.

Did You Enjoy Today's Conversation?

Visit www.WorkforceTherapyFiles.com to listen to additional WTF files or to let us know you'd like to be a guest on an upcoming file.

Need Help Supporting Your Company's Recruiting and Staffing Goals?

We're here to help. You can contact us via our individual websites, depending on your specific needs or questions:

· Jamie Swaim, SPHR – www.ParcelKnows.com

· Molley Ricketts – www.IncipioWorks.com

· Jason Heflin – www.CrowdSouth.com

We hope you found this file insightful and helpful. Thank you for listening!

File 26: In today's file, the team is going to lighten-up the conversation with some funny HR stories they've either experienced or heard about.

Before we begin, we'd like to encourage you to send us your funny HR stories, via the Workforce Therapy Files website. We might read them on an upcoming file.

Sleeping on the Job Stories

Story 1

Molley begins with a personal example from her "first real job." She wanted to talk with one of the leaders. She knew he was in the office. She knocked on his office door repeatedly. Finally, the door opened. She was shocked. She asked if he had been sleeping at his desk, because there was an imprint of his watch on his forehead! Molley later explains that the guy and his wife had recently had their firstborn, so he may have been justifiably, sleep-deprived.

Stories 2, 3 and 4

Jason also has some sleeping stories. Jason worked at a distribution, during a newly-created 2nd shift. There weren't many trucks coming it on 2nd shift. The supervisors created some busy work for the employees, between trucks. Jason was sweeping a long aisle in the warehouse. Suddenly, he hears, "Hey dude." It startled him, so he began looking around to see where the voice came from. He looked up to find his co-worker napping on the 3rd level of the rack shelves. Jason climbed up to find and entire sleeping space the guy had created. After assuring his co-worker that they were cool, he climbed back down and just continued sleeping.

There was another role in which Jason knew a co-worker in the office was falling asleep at his desk. Jason would ask him what he was doing and the guy's head would pop-up and the guy mumbled, "Praying." It happened often enough that Jason had to eventually dismiss the guy.

In his final sleeping story, Jason describes a small office he worked in, years ago. They had an admin at the front desk. Early one morning, the boss unlocked the main door and walked in. All the lights were out, so she continued back to her own office. When she came back out, the admin guy was sitting at his desk. The bell on the front door hadn't chimed, but he claimed he'd been there the whole time. The boss knew she'd just walked past the empty desk. The admin finally relented and admitted that he'd been asleep under the desk (from a hangover).

Reasons People Gave for Calling Out of Work

Story 5

Jamie was working her first HR-assistant job out of college. One of her responsibilities was to review the call-out line messages. She tells us about 2 interesting excuses.

The first was from a woman who was calling on behalf of a guy who worked 3rd shift. He wasn't going to be able to come in, because she was getting ready to have a baby. Then she let out a giant labor pain scream. Jaime still tries to imagine the conversation that must have taken place between the guy and the woman about calling his employer, while she was having contractions. Fortunately, once the man returned to work, he proudly showed off pictures of his new baby.

Work Isn't the Only Type of Labor that Happens at the Office

Story 6

Jamie tells another story about a woman who actually went into labor at work. While the baby came extremely early, it was a very tense experience, that turned out okay. The work environment required a lot of walking. Surprisingly, the walking induced the birth. Jamie remembers sitting on the bathroom floor with the woman. While this isn't a funny HR story, unexpected things often happen at work. In this case, you might say, "Life Happens."

Drug Test Fail

Story 7

Molley was handling mass-recruiting for a large call center. There was a lot of turnover, so it was a constant push to get people scheduled for interviews. She sent an offer to a candidate. Candidates were required to immediately come in for the drug test and fingerprinting. Other employees started approaching the HR office to let them know a woman was in the parking lot offering $100 to anyone who would provide a urine sample she could use for her drug test. They rescinded the offer that day.

In Vino Veritas

Story 8

Jason recounts a story he heard about a company conference. There was a 20-person hot tub at the venue. Alcohol had been consumed at the event. Someone came up with the idea of playing truth or dare in the hot tub. Well, some stories came out. Needless to say, there were some very awkward looks in the room the following day.

Duct Tape Will Fix It

Story 9

Jamie remembers a job she had years ago. There was an individual who was constantly in trouble for pushing the line on what was deemed to be appropriate and inappropriate. He enjoyed wearing t-shirts that had questionable statements on them. While some of them were funny, Jamie knew she would lose authority if she allowed herself to actually laugh at some them.

To remedy the situation, she'd give the guy duct tape to cover the statements considered dress-code violations. Once in a while, he'd look at her and say, "You kind of want to laugh at this, don't you?" It only made it more difficult for her to maintain her composure. Her only recourse was to double down on why the statement was inappropriate.

No-Call/No-Shows

Story 10

While in college, Jason worked in plant that made electrical motors for refrigerators. It was summer time, but a large order needed to be filled for an appliance manufacturer. They worked 80 hours per week, including weekends. The crew was exhausted. Toward the end of the summer, they were begging for a day off. The company refused, because the project was almost finished.

In a coup, the crew told the others they were going to the lake the next day and would be considered no-call/no-shows. The next day they showed up expecting to get fired. The boss pulled them aside and they worked through the situation, especially given there was only a week left on the project. Viva la Revolution!

More Drug Test Fails

Story 11

Jamie remembers someone who submitted a sample for their drug test. Strangely, it was colorless and odorless sample. This creative individual decide they'd have a better chance if they simply submitted tap water as their sample. Once again, the offer was rescinded.

Story 12

One time, Molley was told by a candidate they'd at a Snoop Dog concert and everyone around her was smoking weed. That must have been why pot was showing up in her test results.

Story 13

Jamie listened as a candidate explained how she'd just broken up with her boyfriend and he must have put cocaine in her drink. Sounds almost plausible, right?

Story 14

Molley had a candidate comment that they'd been at a party and everyone ate some brownies. Shockingly, they must have been laced!

Story 15 (Okay, We're not Saying this was a Fail)

Molley once worked for a company that was doing random drug tests. She was travelling when she received the call that she'd been selected. Company policy was that you had to take a drug test, at their facility, within 24 hours. She wasn't schedule to return from her Texas business trip until several days later. They ended up letting her take a test in Texas, but later decided she had to take another one, once she arrived home.

Secret Codes and Scenarios

Story 16

Jamie pulled this on from Reddit. The person worked in a small IT and web-design company. The team discovered the 2048 game and everyone started playing it. The competitive group began listing their high scores and initials on the glass door, in the office. When others saw the scores and initials, the group would make up stories about what the "codes" meant. Interestingly, Jamie knows of HR professionals who've used the 2048 game references during interviews with candidates.

Story 17

Molley was asked if she saw herself as either an apple or an orange, during an interview. She stated she didn't like either, but did prefer to view herself as a banana. It completely threw the interviewer off her game. Molley knew it would only go downhill from there.

Story 18

In college, Molley interviewed for a part-time job in a law office. The male attorney has if she anticipated needing an extended time off, in the near future. She said not, while adding that she had school, but the entire purpose of the question flew completely over her head. He was actually trying to ask about pregnancy.

Story 19

Jason asked a job candidate where she saw herself in 5 years. She had the confidence to respond she'd be the president of the company, not realizing that was Jason's actual role.

Remember to submit your funny HR story to the WTF Team. You can DM us on social media or contact us via the website. We'll keep it anonymous, if we read it during an upcoming file. We hope to hear some good stories! Rest assured, there's not much we haven't seen.

Before We Leave

We wanted to let you know the WTF Podcast is going to have a booth at the upcoming 2025 KYSHRM Conference, August 26-28, at the Central Bank Center in Lexington, KY. Come visit us at Booth 113. Be a guest for one our podcast mini-interviews!

That's where we'll leave the conversation for today. Before we close the file, we invite you to reach out to us with questions, suggestions or other comments. We'd love to hear from you.

Did You Enjoy Today's Conversation?

Visit www.WorkforceTherapyFiles.com to listen to additional WTF files or to let us know you'd like to be a guest on an upcoming file.

Need Help Supporting Your Company's Recruiting and Staffing Goals?

We're here to help. You can contact us via our individual websites, depending on your specific needs or questions:

· Jamie Swaim, SPHR – www.ParcelKnows.com

· Molley Ricketts – www.IncipioWorks.com

· Jason Heflin – www.CrowdSouth.com

We hope you found this file insightful and helpful. Thank you for listening!

File 25: In today's file, the team wraps up a 2-part discussion on the job market. In this episode, they'll focus on "lay-ups". These are the positive ways an organization can assist exiting employees to land on their feet, after a separation. At the same time, this segment will also help area employers to take advantage of the availability of new candidates becoming available, especially if a large layoff has occurred.

Click here to listen File 24, Layoffs and Lay-Ups (Part 1).

In File 11 (Breaking Up Is Hard to Do), the team discussed the topic of separating with dignity. This might also be a good reference point.

There Are Steps that Can Be Taken to Assist Exiting Employees

Molley begins by commenting about how once the severance package and other formalities have been handled, there are still additional steps an employer can take to assist exiting employees. This comes back to a them discussed in File 11 about separating with dignity.

If the organization knows the separation is going to happen, are there job-placement resources in the community that could assist with re-hiring? Do managers personally know if local businesses that could use good employees? Contact them and invite them to connect with your impacted employees. These types of extra steps can help to ease the transition. Remember, when one door closes, another one eventually opens.

In the previous file, File 24, Jamie presented some of the legal requirements a company has, based on the WARN Act, when a layoff is coming. Again, none of the hosts are attorneys, but the information can serve as a guideline for a conversation with your business/corporate attorney.

Jamie points out that by helping former employees to land on their feet, there are indirect and direct benefits to the organization, such as lower claims and the avoidance of potential litigation expenses. Not to mention the damage to the company's reputation as a community/regional employer.

Jason discusses a number of actions he's seen his clients take in these types of situations. He groups them as passive and active steps. An example of a passive action could include writing letters of recommendation for employees. An active action might be contacting local and regional workforce teams and the unemployment office resources.

Additionally, if you become aware of a layoff in the area, get your marketing team working on a plan to potentially attract these potential job candidates. Go so far as to engage that company's HR team to see if you can begin recruiting onsite, before the official layoff date occurs. Consider geo-fencing or geo-targeting the company's location enabling you to serve online ad notifications to people who show up at that location.

Jamie also comments on this aspect. If you are the employer facing layoffs, consider reaching out to other local employers to see if they are looking for good candidates. Your recommendations would be extremely helpful to the HR team, as well as your employees.

Jason explains how they helped to identify industry-adjacent employers for a client. They didn't have the exact same jobs, but many of roles required similar skillsets.

Molley describes how affected employees can leverage the skills they've developed over the years, yet when recruiters and HR overly-depend on technology to screen applicants, those prospective employees risk being left on the sidelines. We need to help employees to tell their stories differently.

Providing a long-term employee resources can be extremely helpful. He/she may need help building a résumé and learning how to apply for jobs. Help them to list their specific skills. It's also possible to work on improving their social media footprint.

Equip that long-term employee with a letter of recommendation, help them to set up an appointment with a staffing specialist, and you might even be able to provide them with information about specific opportunities with other employers. Remember, these are steps to helping with a lay-up, before or after the layoff.

Molley suggests contacting the Kentucky Career Center, which is a statewide resource. It's a valuable resource for employees who are facing a layoff or other separation. Your tax dollars have already been used to fund these resources, so take advantage of them.

Placing an Emphasis on Workforce Planning

This was mentioned in File 24. Molley provides an example. Organizations over-hire. It's often because they don't know how to properly hire. They're planning for attrition.

Instead, if organizations were to create an authentic approach to the hiring process for each position, you'd consider the company's readiness to hire, the timing for the hire, the reason one or more people need to be hired, etc. This granular approach will help you to know the best time to engage in the hiring process. It can actually lower the overall cost of your workforce development efforts. It's not simply a cost of doing business.

Consider listening to our 3-Part Series on how Recruiting Begins with Retention. Click here to listen to Part 1.

If you are authentic and candid with your workforce about how the company is performing, should a layoff be in the future, employees may be better able to understand the decision is business-related, not personal.

Consider the following simple takeaways:

- Treat people like adults.

- Be transparent.

- Partner with your networks.

- Build community around we are all better off when we're all employed.

- If you have to layoff, lay them up for their next opportunity.

- Remember, anyone whose been with your company for 3-5 years may need some additional help because the process of seeking a new opportunity will be different for them.

Each of the steps you can take to help these individuals to move forward will help to alleviate worry, stress, anxiety and the fear of the unknown future. These efforts can also reduce any potential negative reactions the company and its remaining employees might face.

Before We Leave

We wanted to let you know the WTF Podcast is going to have a booth at the upcoming 2025 KYSHRM Conference, August 26-28, at the Central Bank Center in Lexington, KY. Come visit us at Booth 113. Be a guest for one our podcast mini-interviews!

That's where we'll leave the conversation for today. Before we close the file, we invite you to reach out to us with questions, suggestions or other comments. We'd love to hear from you.

Did You Enjoy Today's Conversation?

Visit www.WorkforceTherapyFiles.com to listen to additional WTF files or to let us know you'd like to be a guest on an upcoming file.

Need Help Supporting Your Company's Recruiting and Staffing Goals?

We're here to help. You can contact us via our individual websites, depending on your specific needs or questions:

· Jamie Swaim, SPHR – www.ParcelKnows.com

· Molley Ricketts – www.IncipioWorks.com

· Jason Heflin – www.CrowdSouth.com

We hope you found this file insightful and helpful. Thank you for listening!

File 24: In today's file, the team begins a 2-part discussion on the job market. In this episode, they'll focus on layoffs. Several clients have reached out to Jamie and Molley to plan for potential layoffs and the specific steps companies are required to take.

In File 11 (Breaking Up Is Hard to Do), the team discussed the topic of separating with dignity. This might be a good reference point.

Legal Considerations Involving a Layoff

To begin, it's important to note none of this should be considered legal advice, as the members of the WTF Podcast team are not lawyers. However, they've been involved in these situations and are prepared to share some perspectives and tips. Today's discussion might provide an outline for a series of questions you might want to review with your business attorney.

Information regarding the WARN Act can be found on the Department of Labor's website. It's the Worker Adjustment and Retraining Notification. This Act ensures advanced notice in cases of qualified plant closings.

When are Employers Required to Provide Advance Notice to Employees of a Layoffs or a Plant Closure?

Jamie explains that if you are an employer planning a layoff, plant closure or significant reduction in work hours, you are required to do a WARN notice. It must be filed with the unemployment office. The threshold is that you must have over 100 full-time workers, excluding workers who have been there for less than 6-months, or who work less than 20 hours per week. If you're laying off 50 or more people, at a single site, or if you employ more than 100 workers who work at least a combined 4,000 hours.

Please note, there are many other group descriptions that should be reviewed in determining your specific requirements.

The benefit to this process is that it can help the various community resources to engage in planning and coordination to assist affected workers in the area. It also provides 60-day notice so that the affected employees can make plans regarding their individual situations. Jamie notes that the time and notice can make a difference for continued employment for those impacted employees.

What Can Companies Do to Help Employees Affected by a Layoff?

Jason comments that the notification, per the WARN Act, goes to the local career centers and unemployment offices. Once notified, those agencies can provide information on opportunities and programs for up-skilling and training. Some agencies may even come on-site to provide employees with information about job openings and other potential resources, including providing information about how unemployment works. It's good to utilize these services as early in the process as possible. It's also the right thing to do for your people.

Most of the previous files on this podcast have focused on attracting good people; the right talent for your company. You probably have a large group of people you really hope to retain. You may even be able to come up with solutions that could avoid the need for a layoff.

Alternatives to Enacting a Layoff

Consider the use of furloughs. If you're trying to reduced costs, you may have the option of instituting temporary furloughs and avoiding the need to issue a WARN Act notification. The advantage is you might still be able to retain your talent. They should be able to draw unemployment for periods of time.

Jamie recalls working with a client who was having a dip in business, but believe it wasn't a permanent situation. As a company, they decided to implement furloughs to get them through the current period and come out together, on the other side. Everyone, including management took a 2-week, unpaid furlough. In their case, the payroll savings enabled them to survive.

Molley comments that communication is key, especially when the company itself is under stress. By being transparent about the situation, it may help to gain important buy-in for an option, such as a furlough, instead of having to layoff a significant number of people. This transparency also helps the company to control the narrative, rather than letting rumors and misinformation to get traction.

It's important to understand that a furlough for a specific period of time is much different from a layoff, which means you're losing your job. It's an entirely different situation.

Molley points out that some companies might try to use a layoff to mask poor performance. Often, this is due to a lack of good management, in her opinion. If you're laying off for poor performance, is it possible your managers weren't given the tools or opportunities to lead?

Jamie, agrees that using "layoffs" for poor performance is a misuse of the term. You're not required to retain a poor performer. You should take the necessary steps to notify someone of their lack of performance and to provide opportunities and time for improvement. This is the best way to get someone to demonstrate improved performance. Nonetheless, some leaders may share responsibility for the underperforming employees. It might be the best thing for the business, but have other alternatives been explored?

Why Not Use a Layoff to Purge Your Weakest Performers?

In reality, few companies have extremely solid performance data, enabling the organization to definitively identify its weakest performers. Thus, you're going to create a risk for the business if this is the chosen path.

What Are Recommended Criteria for Selecting Which Employees Are to be Laid-Off?

Jamie has seen companies use a last-in, first-out criteria. This may be effective if your workforce is unionized. Another approach is to identify critical roles for the future success of the business and to isolate other roles that will be less needed.

Molley's team at Incipio was recently working with a company that had to downsize its workforce. Effective leaders naturally struggle with this communication because they understand the impact these decisions are going to have on the lives of their people.

Jamie recalls the first layoff she as involved with. She'd been out of college for about 2 years. She was the person delivering these notifications. Some of the affected employees had been with the company for 20 years or more. The situation caused her to have literal nightmares about what could happen to her, as a result of the communications. Her car was keyed, she was spit-on, her desk was messed up.

Interestingly, Jamie observes that no one had prepared her for how to have these conversations. They didn't help her to prepare for effective communication that would allow the person receiving the bad news to receive it, along with the compassion and empathy that should be part of this type of discussion.

While you may be the person communicating the decision, recognize the person receiving the news is experiencing a million emotions, all at once. What if their family has medical conditions? How is this going to affect household finances? The list of life-obligations just starts racing. In this moment, as a leader, if you're not prepared and able to show care and concern, you've missed out on an opportunity.

If handled well, that employee may decide to return to the company, once the current situation has improved.

Considerations for Remote-Work Companies Informing Employees about a Layoff

The team has touched on this topic in previous files. Molley strongly advises that you should have legal participate in these communications, along with your HR staff. There are many variable that can surface. What if the employee were to record the discussion? How do you handle the employee who is attempting to trigger the manager to react to specific questions or accusations? Any number of issues could develop resulting in liability for the company.

It's important to do this before the first conversation is held. Jason recommends engaging Jamie and Molley to help your organization to have a game plan before the situation gets underway. Preparation is vital. Nonetheless, hiring and firing are often the most short-sighted processes.

Jamie notes the number of Instagram clips and Tik Toks that are recorded possibly without the companies being aware. A lot of states have varying laws regarding one-party consent, as it relates to recording conversations. These recorded conversations can quickly take on a life of their own. Again, you've got to be prepared.

Molley and Jamie point out that if a legal situation were to stem from this conversation with an employee, it's possible that an actual class action lawsuit could develop involving each of the affected employees. Even if the employer wins the case, consider the expense, damaged reputation and other negative outcomes.

There is a solid process that can be followed to ensure you effectively communicate the intended message, while avoiding creating scenarios that could open your company to legal and financial exposure. Jamie reminds the audience that the WARN Act requires 60-days' notice, so this isn't a process you can implement next week.

If your organization's leadership has an effective business plan and is monitoring key performance indicators, you should see the smoke signals on the horizon. This phase should be just as well thought out and implemented. You have to make sure your managers are equipped and prepared for this difficult situation.

Molley brings up the large layoff by Big Lots, just before Christmas 2024. They were attempting to work through a merger or buy-out. When that failed, they were forced to file for bankruptcy. The notices to the employees were issued around December 15th. Families and communities were impacted and the lack of preparation and communication only exacerbated the situation.

Does the Term Layoff Signify Temporarily or Permanently?

Jason asks about the usage of the term layoff. It seems this is a temporary situation, but today's conversation seems to indicated it can be a permanent separation. Which is correct?

Jamie explains that some employees have union contracts. It may contain a clause for a layoff with right of recall. This means those employees will be added to list and will be contacted for rehire, once the company begins that process. On the flipside, the company may not be required to specify the duration of the layoff, nor when the rehiring process would begin.

Jamie further explains that a layoff typically occurs due to no fault of the individual. Termination may be performance-related, but generally means employment has ended. Going back to the term furlough, it would normally involve a defined period of time.

Be sure to join us for File 25, Layoffs and Lay-Ups (Part 2).

That's where we'll leave the conversation for today. Before we close the file, we invite you to reach out to us with questions, suggestions or other comments. We'd love to hear from you.

Did You Enjoy Today's Conversation?

Visit www.WorkforceTherapyFiles.com to listen to additional WTF files or to let us know you'd like to be a guest on an upcoming file.

Need Help Supporting Your Company's Recruiting and Staffing Goals?

We're here to help. You can contact us via our individual websites, depending on your specific needs or questions:

· Jamie Swaim, SPHR – www.ParcelKnows.com

· Molley Ricketts – www.IncipioWorks.com

· Jason Heflin – www.CrowdSouth.com

We hope you found this file insightful and helpful. Thank you for listening!

File 23: In today's file, the team welcomes Summer Dixon Goldman of Dixon Strategies. She offers fractional Chief Operating Officer services for owners, founders and CEOs. Dixon Strategies brings order to chaos.

Meet Summer Goldman

Summer had a 20-year, corporate career. She has a background in agriculture and lending. The majority of her corporate experience was in leadership roles related to sales and operations teams. She eventually made the decision to start her own company.

Summer begins by explaining fractional chief operating officer services looks different for different organizations. She focuses on startups, small businesses and family-run businesses. She either serves as a fractional COO, or as a consultant to the existing operations team.

Summer also has a Vistage practice. She serves in the peer-advisory role and as a coach. Her practice is comprised of an entrepreneurial group of CEOs, although still focused on startups, small businesses and family-run entities.

Challenges People Need Help Solving, Today

Jamie asks about the trends in the types of challenges Summer is seeing in today's marketplace. One issue Summer sees is the location of the workforce. She has an advanced manufacturing client with locations across Kentucky. The challenge for this company is sourcing local talent, in a very competitive environment.

Another issue is the multi-generational workforce. Each group has its own unique needs and desires. This can lead to misunderstandings between the generations and challenges for the company leadership trying to manage the diverse issues that arise.

There's also the ongoing challenge of being clear when attempting to communicate/establish expectations with various groups of people and/or individuals.

Jason comments that he recognizes the issue of geographic locations of the workforce. It's been a challenge for growing markets in Kentucky. Bowling Green, for instance, is exploding. Manufacturing is a growth-area that's especially hot in Warren County. He discusses how Bowling Green has addressed the workforce issue head-on and the result is Bowling Green becoming the fastest growing market in Kentucky and one of the fastest in the country.

How Are Companies Addressing the Workforce Issues Relative to Misplacement or Displacement?

Jason asks Summer about her perspective on how other Kentucky areas are dealing with what Bowling Green had to overcome. It begins with communities finding effective ways to communicate the various opportunities available in their respective, geographic areas. On the surface, certain industries may not seem as attractive, until you begin to understand the advantage they offer to the individuals and the communities, at large. Branding the workforce experience for those particular industries is important.

Summer goes on to stress the importance of meeting people where they are, in a very broad sense. This encompasses their physical location, skill set and their personal goals. It's a question of figuring out how to blend and balance both the business' and personal needs.

Addressing the Skills Gap

The team focused on this in the previous file, with Amy Rudy. Summer hones in on the advanced manufacturing space. We've lost a lot of those jobs. However, she points out that the coal industry workers actually have skills that lend themselves to those of advance manufacturing. There's also a similar fit for certain areas of agriculture. Skills in areas such as diesel mechanics, livestock or crop production and others are actually quite applicable.

Jamie refers back to the 3-Part series WTF recorded on Peeling the Workforce Onion (Part 1). A key point was to avoid being overly rigid in the specific attributes you use to screen prospective employees. Transferrable skills exist, but the individual may not recognize this fact. Thus, they never connect with the potential employer.

Summer recalls how File 14 also offered suggestions on finding overlooked candidates. Immigrant populations and veterans can be ideal candidates.

Molley discusses how individuals can leverage transferable skills, or up-skill themselves to equip them to qualify for those new types of jobs. Molley's company, Incipio, is actively matching individuals with positions that have "like" skill sets, based on the information they've submitted. The software is highlighting matching skill sets, some of which you may not have previously considered.

What Are Leaders Missing in Terms of Workforce Development?

Jason asks about what Summer is seeing as potential blind spots she's seen leaders fail to recognize. She notes that many founders/owners struggle with understanding why members of their teams aren't as passionate as they are about the business. In reality she points out that they're not going to be. It's not their baby. They most likely don't have their life's savings invested. The answer might be to work on creating a culture of people who are passionate about you. This is particularly relevant in the entrepreneurial space where often the founder is the brand.

You can develop a team that's passionate about working in that environment or with that particular leadership style. It may be the work or the mission that attracts them. For Summer, this is an ongoing puzzle she's trying to solve.

Jason relates his own leadership experience, as it relates to his team. He feels an immense responsibility to cultivate and equip his employees for success. They're real people, not inputs. You're developing their careers. That's a powerful north star.

Summer points out that the leaders with whom she works often feel a deep responsibility to their employees. The challenge is helping the people to see that's a key advantage of working is those specific organizations. It's a way to create passion, and can be a differentiator.

It's not about making this part of the marketing communications. As a leader, it's about showing up and being consistent with that level of focus on the team. But, it must be done authentically. The results will follow.

What Advice Could Summer Offer to Leaders and their HR Partners?

One of the first questions Summer asks of a prospective client is, "Who's your HR partner?" It may be internal, but when the partner is external, she follows up with, "Have you considered…" HR challenges are going to surface. Leaders need to ensure they have a structure including and beyond the job description. Have leadership training. It's a core area ranging from the technical piece to strategy.

As the HR partner, you have to have a level of understanding when you're working with a visionary. It's incumbent upon that partner to ensure they are speaking to the audience. Pick the priorities.

Jason points out that sometimes there's a person who serves as the interpreter or liaison between the visionary and the team. It may be an operations role that recasts what the visionary was trying to convey, albeit in a more appropriate or understandable manner.

How to You Coach a Visionary to Recognize the Need for and to Find that Intermediary?

The group agrees this is almost like matchmaking. Summer recommends explaining to the visionary that he/she needs some clarity around something. It doesn't have to be everything. Expectation-setting is an important step in this process. The intermediary should be ready to ask a lot of questions of the visionary, in an effort to determine the actual risk-tolerance of that leader. A balance needs to be struck at the foundational level. HR may be able to cultivate the benefit to having the visionary buy into bringing on the person to fill this role. It may take courage to approach the idea, but it'll be worth it in the end.

Would You Like to Contact Summer Dixon Goldman?

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/summerdgoldman

Website: https://dixonstrategies.com/

Phone: (812) 630-9448

That's where we'll leave the conversation for today. Before we close the file, we invite you to reach out to us with questions, suggestions or other comments. We'd love to hear from you.

Did You Enjoy Today's Conversation?

Visit www.WorkforceTherapyFiles.com to listen to additional WTF files or to let us know you'd like to be a guest on an upcoming file.

Need Help Supporting Your Company's Recruiting and Staffing Goals?

We're here to help. You can contact us via our individual websites, depending on your specific needs or questions:

· Jamie Swaim, SPHR – www.ParcelKnows.com

· Molley Ricketts – www.IncipioWorks.com

· Jason Heflin – www.CrowdSouth.com

We hope you found this file insightful and helpful. Thank you for listening!

File 22: In today's file, the team welcomes Amy Rudy, the Founder of Impact Sales Systems, to discuss the challenge of staying relevant in your industry or field and growing your knowledge, skills and abilities. It's also going to require a level of resilience to remain agile in the future of work.

In case you missed them, the previous 2 episodes focused on The Future of Work. Click the below links to listen:

· The Future of Work (Part 1)

· The Future of Work (Part 2)

Meet Amy Rudy

Amy is a sales and sales management coach. She works with business owners and sales teams on the behaviors behind selling. She often works with solely-owned and closely-owned businesses. Prior to launching Impact Sales Solutions, Amy founded a software development firm that built custom solutions for specialized challenges facing both small businesses and Fortune 500 companies.

The Gap Left when a Founder Leaves the Organization

Amy explains that a successful business will often outgrow the skill set that enabled it to launch and grow, in the early days. This is especially true of a business that had a sole owner/founder. It works for a while, but because so much of what makes the organization unique is tied to the knowledge, skills and relationships of that individual, it may be difficult to export that talent to a larger team.

As the team attempts to take shape, the initial inertia can slow and leave the team wondering how it can regain the momentum and direction.

Managing the Transition

It may be a case of the leader wanting to retire or exit in 15 years, or so. However, when Amy is approached with the idea of accelerating that exit to 18 months or less, it's virtually impossible. Now the exit can definitely take place, but it's a question of how stable the company was built to withstand the event.

It's a matter of being strategic with the decision. If new leaders are beginning to surface and take on some of the responsibilities, they may be willing to do even more. There's already a sense of forward motion occurring. The reality is often smaller companies are managed and controlled (along with the decision-making). This environment may work well for the leader, but the rest of the organization is underprepared to move beyond that individual; even to survive after the exit. Is the organization ready to operate with a business-mindset, rather than as a personal checkbook?

Amy recommends planning for succession much earlier that people often assume is necessary.

The Importance of Creating Succession Plans

Jason asks about how this is initiated and developed. Amy comments that it's a question of whether the organization needs "more of same" or needs to pivot. If the company needs more of the same approach, then documenting work processes and operations would make sense.

Amy prefers to begin by asking the client(s) to describe their future. What does FutureCo look like? How much revenue will it produce? How much volume will be required to generate that revenue? Is it truly more of same or is it different? Will it need to move faster? Will the problems be more complex?

She also challenges the client(s) to consider the required capabilities. Describe the necessary skills to operate at those levels and in those areas. How much cash will FutureCo require to operate at those levels? It's a matter of really attempting to define what the intended future will look like.

Once you have that vision defined, Amy notes that the business needs to measure where they are today, using the same metrics, for CurrentCo. When accurately performed, a true gap-analysis provides valuable insights. Leaders should then involve the people around them to figure out what needs to be done differently to become FutureCo, as envisioned.

One of the underlying challenges becomes reality when the new leader steps into the role, but the insight and resulting roadmap doesn't exist, because it walked out the door inside the previous leader's head. This can echo throughout company leadership as people begin to protect what they know. There's no real knowledge transfer and the organization becomes stuck, or worse yet, begins to regress.

It may not be a question of who the organization replaces "Steve" with another Steve (e.g. more of same). Maybe Steve hit his performance ceiling. It's it possible that moving forward will require a different kind of leader who can take what Steve began and effectively navigate into the future?

Jason and Amy discuss the view that, "It worked, so why change it?" Assessing whether it's still working and will it work in the future are importantly different questions. While this is a difficult conversation to have, Amy observes that there are people at the table who want to be part of the conversation, but unfortunately are not always given the opportunity to contribute their ideas, perspectives and innovation to the situation.

Having a level of transparency among all leadership roles should mean that everyone can contribute. Unfortunately, people become accustomed to waiting to be told what to do next, rather than helping to define what actually needs to be done next.

However, if a business owner can adopt that mindset and begin encouraging those additional points of views, true progress can be made toward actively planning and preparing for FutureCo.

Planning Remains Important

Amy reinforces the need to have solid roles and responsibilities enabling people to communicate what and how they're going to proceed, while enabling the organization to measure that progress is important. It's about accountability and results. This is especially true in sales. Enable to individuals to own the role and own the goal.

Are there Trends in the Skills Gaps?

Jason asks Amy if there seem to be a set of trends she notices in the workforce? Technology is advancing incredibly quickly. Technical skills involving office tools, such as spreadsheets, could enable people to analyze large data sets on their own. There seems to be a gap in this area.

Additionally, Amy recognizes gaps are apparent in:

· - Negotiating

· - Forecasting & Planning

· - Accounting

· - Account-level Planning

· - Questioning

· - Navigating the Way Forward

Are your sales people neglecting the sales tools and simply waiting for leads to be generated for them? Are they consistently initiating contacts and cultivating referral-relationships? Even an excellent marketing machine will only generate a certain percentage of leads. The individual network a professional can cultivate could generally exceed that. Is it being developed, effectively and consistently?

Amy points out that while marketing can plant seeds in the minds of a target audience, sales has to be there exploring those opportunities with those prospective clients. That requires an understanding of the prospect's business, as well as their own. This is a definite skills gap.

Is This the Greatest Gaps Amy Sees in Her Client Base?

Amy begins by confirming it's fixable. Understanding how a business makes money and where the problems typically exist is vital. It'll help to identify the problem you solve and how that impacts the prospect's P&L.

One of the issues is that business owners may not be focused on developing that talent within their respective staffs. Do those sales professionals know how to think like a business owner? Does the business owner share their own P&L to provide insights and to demonstrate the relationships between the line items? Is the business owner training them to make decisions like a business owner?

How to Improve the Job Description and/or Interview Process to Identify those Gaps

Having worked with Molley and Jamie, Amy is confident business owners may not know the skills they need or what will need to be different to move them toward FutureCo. Often the descriptions are copied from previous versions.

Amy leads clients through an assessment of the specific skill sets the company needs. The list could be extensive. It's critical to understand the skills and why they're important to the specific role in question. Does the candidate have the proper mindset to sell into a C-Suite verses a different client base? This may be a key, differentiating factor.

Amy recommends having the gaps identified in what's required verses those your best candidate brings. This way, on day one, you already know where you need to upskill or equip him/her for success in your marketplace. There's no such thing as 100% fit. There's always a gap that can be addressed. How do you create the opportunities to enable the individual to close the that gap and any others that are apparent?

Can Companies Define What Success Looks Like for Their New Hires?

Jamie asks this question based on the premise that it's easier to identify the skills that are needed rather than what those skills are meant to deliver. Amy recommends including interview questions focused on how the candidate can demonstrate their skills to a prospective employer.

Amy goes on to explain that if the leader's goals for the organization are overly general, or vague, they haven't broken down what it would actually take to be successful in that role. An overreliance on the dashboard may mask specific behaviors that ultimately result in the metrics that show up on the dashboard. For instance, how does a sales professional plan his/her weekly activities, how they conduct their conversations, do they sound like a traditional sales rep or more like an advisor who is equipped with insights and knowledge to help the prospective client?

Jason comments on the talent and skills an effective sales professional brings to the role. He admits that he's challenged during interviews with prospective sales candidates, because he leads them too much with his questioning. Many business owners and managers often get sold during the interview, only to discover that individual isn't exactly what they thought, before hiring them.

The other challenge, Jason observes, is that the owner or manager fails to manage their new sales hire through the gaps.

Advice to Prepare to Interview Someone for a Sales Role

Amy leads with an admonition to stop validating yourself and force them to validate themselves. You should be transparent, but you still need to test for fit instead of focusing on selling the candidate on the job opportunity.

The hiring process should result in a mutual selection. Again, be transparent about the current situation within the company and its market environment. Is your organization anticipating a period of significant changes? Is your market leadership making you a target for your competitors? Define the necessary skills for the company to be successful and then provide the candidate an opportunity to demonstrate those specific skills and aptitudes.

It's not inappropriate to ask them to bring examples of how they'd plan their week. This is especially important for remote work.

Undertraining, even a seasoned sales professional, is a key reason they may be looking for a new opportunity. Simply dumping that individual into a situation and requiring them to figure it out (e.g. sink or swim) is a recipe for failure. As the team discussed in File 8, there's a value to a well-designed and executed on-boarding program.

Jason points out that often the person hiring for the role may not have direct experience having been in that role, so they don't know what they should ask and how to respond to the answers provided.

Amy describes her surprise with how long it takes for an owner to begin discussing the earnings potential, during the interview. A typical sales professional is going to key in on that aspect of the discussion. At the same time, has the leader developed a solid understanding relationship between the compensation and the cost of the product or service. This topic should be covered very early in the engagement.

What Do the Skill Sets of Successful Sale Professionals Look Like in the Future?

Molley asks what should be expected as we continue to look forward. It's imperative that sales professionals have and continue to develop strategic mindset activities. The sales team should evolve into an advisory resource for company leadership. The resulting collaborative approach can help to identify deficits in features/capabilities. It can also provide insights into the profitability of what's actually being sold. A trusted feedback loop will also provide information on how the competition is adjusting to your offering.

In reality, Amy often observes the skills gap may actually be in the leadership seats. It goes back to whether the owner or leader knows how to build a cohesive team who know how to properly define where the organization needs to go, how it's going to get there and the resource required for the journey.

Relying too much on the automation, to the detriment of actually knowing what the detailed activities truly are, is a challenge for some leaders. Automation is a tool; not an answer.

The pace of change is accelerating. Focus your leadership team on finding ways to look further down the road that your competition my currently be doing. Challenge them to develop the most effective plan to get there and hold people accountable for the results.

Would You Like to Contact Amy Rudy?

Website: https://www.impactsalessystems.com/

Phone: (502) 589-2139

That's where we'll leave the conversation for today. Before we close the file, we invite you to reach out to us with questions, suggestions or other comments. We'd love to hear from you.

Did You Enjoy Today's Conversation?

Visit www.WorkforceTherapyFiles.com to listen to additional WTF files or to let us know you'd like to be a guest on an upcoming file.

Need Help Supporting Your Company's Recruiting and Staffing Goals?

We're here to help. You can contact us via our individual websites, depending on your specific needs or questions:

· Jamie Swaim, SPHR – www.ParcelKnows.com

· Molley Ricketts – www.IncipioWorks.com

· Jason Heflin – www.CrowdSouth.com

We hope you found this file insightful and helpful. Thank you for listening!

File 21: In today's file, the team continues the discussion on the future of work, namely the changes to where and how we'll work, in the not too distant future. Remember, we let AI draft the outline for this file. Jason and Molley haven't seen the outline. We'll see where the machine takes us!

If you missed Part 1, you can listen to it here: https://www.workforcetherapyfiles.com/podcast/the-future-of-work-part-1/

The Gig Economy Is Booming

Will this continue to grow? Will contract-work increase? Jason points out that not everyone is wired to be a business owner. It's a big step and can be more complicated that it appears, on the surface. Before you quit your office job and jump into the world of full-time entrepreneurship, you may want to follow his example. Jason dipped his toe into the water by doing some side-hustle work to see if it was a viable option. He is a fan of gig-work. He uses it himself. However, it's not for everyone. While he does think the gig economy is part of the future of work, there are many challenges for those getting into it on a full-time basis.

Jamie talks about her dad's decision to take a part-time job after retiring. He actually enjoyed the freedom and the income the job provided. She goes onto explain that if you are hiring gig-workers, there are some challenges. These could include a lack of continuity, you may not be able to spend the time training them like you would a typical employee, and you'll need to be very confident in the people whom you decide to hire on a gig-style basis.

Molley see this as a viable option for structured individuals. There are various websites that connect companies with gig workers such as:

· https://www.gigworker.com/

· https://www.gigworx.com/

· Note: Molley is not specifically endorsing these sites.

As it relates to gigs for meal delivery, rideshare services and others, these will continue to be good ways to supplement your income. These could also be viable transitional jobs.

Prediction

Molley sees gig work as being both generational and situational, as it continues to grow.

Reskilling Will Be Part of Life

Jamie mentions the availability of online course, such as on LinkedIn Learning. Some colleges/universities provide free courses. Will these continue to be part of individuals' development plans?

The group discusses Python, which is a coding language. AI can step in and code a process or task for you, as well. Learning how to work with these tools is a definite advantage. Jason notes that traditional education isn't necessarily the best path for every individual. Technology is allowing people to choose their own paths and lifestyles. It requires courage and discipline, but just like gig work, it's viable.

Molley mentions that she knows people who will work for Amazon or some other employer, and then take several months off to do something else. The availability of these jobs may provide healthcare benefits and other advantages. It's a lifestyle choice.

Jason discusses how employers will need to be aware that potential candidates have options. This lifestyle approach to working can become either a threat or potential competitor to your workforce development efforts.

Jamie mentions that technology is moving forward more quickly than traditional education. We're going to have to find other ways to upskill or reskill our workforce. It's going to take some significant investment by employers. Jason points out that if companies resist the need to reskill employees, those individuals are going to seek it out on their own, and may pursue new opportunities as a result.

Molley suggests individuals explore reskill and upskill opportunities thorough resources such as Jefferson County Adult Education. There are tons of classes available.

Jamie reads through some of the industry-specific "callouts" related to reskilling.

· - Healthcare

· - Education

· - Retail

· - Manufacturing

· - Finance

Because we're discussion the future of work, Jason asks the group if we'll every have a Jetsons existence? Molley thinks it'll happen but maybe not in their lifetime.

Challenges Concerning the Future of Work

The ethics of AI will be a significant challenge. Rules, or policies, need to be created and enforced as we continue to embrace AI-developed work product.

Mental health can be strained as remote workers feel the pressure to be "on" 24/7. This is going to negatively affect the work quality, over the long-term, if employers aren't sensitive to this risk.

Job displacement through automation. This will be another reason organizations will need to focus on reskilling or upskilling the workforce. Automation and technology don't have to be a threat, as long as employees have the skills to embrace and optimize the processes using these new technologies.

That's where we'll leave the conversation for today. Before we close the file, we invite you to reach out to us with questions, suggestions or other comments. We'd love to hear from you.

Did You Enjoy Today's Conversation?

Visit www.WorkforceTherapyFiles.com to listen to additional WTF files or to let us know you'd like to be a guest on an upcoming file.

Need Help Supporting Your Company's Recruiting and Staffing Goals?

We're here to help. You can contact us via our individual websites, depending on your specific needs or questions:

· Jamie Swaim, SPHR – www.ParcelKnows.com

· Molley Ricketts – www.IncipioWorks.com

· Jason Heflin – www.CrowdSouth.com

We hope you found this file insightful and helpful. Thank you for listening!