Welcome friend of the pod, Eli Irvin! Eli and Gabriel have known each other for many years, and when I (Megan) met him at the Wild Goose Festival last year, I knew we were going to be friends! Eli is an Episcopalian and has devoted his life to loving people well, particularly those in the LGBTQ+ community. We talked about the good and bad of the church, what it really means to love people well, and how love and Christianity are meant to be inefficient. 

This conversation felt like sitting on a front porch with a couple of southern friends and a glass of lemonade (or bourbon ;) ). It was such a breath of fresh air, and I know you're going to love Eli and be thinking about his words for quite a while. 

Follow Eli on Tiktok and Instagram @irvinwithaneye for theology, Star Trek, and other nerdy fun! 

....

Do you feel like The Church uses language and manipulation tactics to infantilize people? Have you ever met Christians who seemed immature or unsure of themselves? In this episode, Gabriel and Megan talk about the ways they think the Church has kept Christians in a state of perpetual immaturity, the motivations for that manipulation, and how it plays out differently for men and women. They also talk about their own struggles with having to individuate and mature as adults and the discomforts they've experienced as a result. 

Sources:

We both recommend the movie, Turning Red. 

More scandals with Hillsong.

In this episode, we interviewed trauma expert, Elizabeth Power, founder of the Trauma Informed Academy. Elizabeth talked to us about what trauma is, how we can become more resilient, and how we can learn to heal ourselves. She believes we can look to ancient texts for wisdom about how community can heal us and make us able to cope with trauma, and that community is something we are sorely lacking in our society. 

Elizabeth is special to both of us and we could have talked to her all day. We think you'll love hearing from her and find her work to be especially needed in our world. 

You can find Elizabeth's books and learn more about her work at elizabethpower.com

Content Warning: This episode contains conversations about suicide, drug overdose, and mental illness. Please take care while listening, or skip the episode if this content may be troubling for you. 

We are grateful that mental health is a topic that has entered the realm of public conversation. With the normalization of conversations around how we care for ourselves in that way, we have also become aware of the ways the church has failed people when it comes to treating and even just talking about mental illness, suicide, addiction, eating disorders, etc. We believe the church must do better in this regard in order to make a positive impact in the world and stop the use of shaming tactics that injure people further. Mental health should be treated as health care, and the Church should stop treating it like a theater for spiritual warfare. 

Topics discussed:

drug addiction

overdose

suicide

depression/anxiety

eating disorders

therapy and medication

exorcism

faith healing/praying in tongues

infertility

In this episode, Megan poses the question to Gabriel, "why do you choose Christianity?". After leaving his family's faith behind and wrestling with his doubts, Gabriel found a church that provided the perfect space to walk through deconstructing and reconstructing a new faith. He talks about what drew him to the Episcopal church, and what it was like having friends and mentors that provided love and acceptance. 

They also talk about the difference between unconditional love and unconditional acceptance, the changing demographics of the Church and what that means for the future, and why people are trapped in abusive relationships with god. It's a very open and meaningful conversation and we hope you enjoy it as much as we did. 

In this episode, Megan and Gabriel talk about Deconstruction as a movement and why Millennials are hard-wired for it. They also talk about the ways in which Christians have co-opted the language of deconstruction to sell books and gain followers, and how to spot those tricks without giving them any money or influence. 

Is Deconstruction a movement? Does it need to have more or less structure? Or are we just projecting newness onto the current church exodus because of visibility due to the internet and social media? We want to hear from you! DM us on Instagram @wrestlingwithgodpod or email us at [email protected]

For help finding an affirming church, visit www.gaychurch.org.

In this episode, Megan and Gabriel share their experiences attending the Wild Goose Festival, as well as what it has meant to them in their personal and spiritual lives over the years. 

Links and References:

The video parody about making Christian music was wrongly attributed to Trey Kennedy. It was actually made by John Crist, who I will not link on this platform. I also encourage listeners not to support him by watching his videos as he has been accused by several people of sexual misconduct, for which he has yet to issue a true apology, and instead broke his months-long silence on social media with problematic videos joking about cancel culture. You can read about it here.

Nadia Bolz Weber speaks at Rachel Held Evans' funeral. 

Wild Geese, by Mary Oliver

Chasing the Goose, by Susan Rebecca White, The Bitter Southerner