两个在初创和大厂之间反复横跳的人，终于坐下来把这些年的职业弯路摊开聊了聊。不是什么逆袭故事，就是普通人在"我到底想干什么"这个问题上，摸爬滚打了十年之后的一些真心话。如果你也正处在职业迷茫期，也许会在我们的故事里找到一点共鸣和陪伴。

本期主播：

至卉：生活在中国，注册营养师兼创业公司产品经理，职业上靠研究食物谋生，生活中靠“用嘴表达”解压，持续探索生活与自我的可能性。ENFJ射手，激情高昂，内心柔软。翠翠：生活在英国，工科博士在读，生活方式试验爱好者，从南京初创公司到北京大厂再到英格兰校园，像河一样流出自己的人生路径。INFJ白羊，平淡内敛，一身反骨。时间戳

Part 1 我们的十年职业经历

00:00 在社会上十年，两个普通女性混成了啥样？

01:50 翠翠：职业起点就在初创公司，三年爱过也恨过

04:20 翠翠：放弃体面岗位，奔赴专业领域，辞职出国读博

09:23 至卉：脱不下孔乙己的长衫，结果只是大厂纺织女工

12:56 至卉：上市集团到草台班子，落差下探索喜欢的领域

Part 2 学到的本事和踩过的坑

13:48 大公司VS初创，通用技能VS十项全能

19:55 工作是拿时间换想要的东西，不必面面俱到赢得上级认可

23:23 小公司灵活自由的另一面

25:54 逃离渣男式的跳槽是跳火坑，知己知彼才是正解

30:53 拿回主动权，建立护城河，不再把职业选择权交给别人

Part 3 本命职业路径的探索

33:12 走过的路，都算数

35:36 我也想被大佬带飞，没有大佬我就成为那个大佬

38:27 天降真命天子不存在，本命职业也不是完美匹配

41:25 不去找正确答案，而是注重自我感受

45:53 别人眼里的风光VS自己眼里的价值

49:09 五年后的职业期待：开花结果，成为大佬

延伸阅读 / 相关推荐

• 知己知彼，百战不殆 ——《孙子兵法》
• 职业教练 / 职业咨询：如果你也在迷茫期，找专业的人聊聊也许会有帮助

How Many Wrong Turns Before You Find Your Path?About This Episode

Two women who've spent a decade bouncing between startups and big corporates finally sit down to untangle their career journeys. This isn't a success story — it's an honest look at what happens when you don't have a grand plan, when you pick jobs the way you might pick a rebound relationship, and when the path you're drawn to doesn't come with a manual or a mentor. If you're in the middle of your own career fog, there might be something here for you.

Timestamps

Part 1: Our Decade in the Working World

• 00:00 After ten years out there, where have two ordinary women ended up?
• 01:50 Cuicui: Started her career at a startup — three years of devotion and heartbreak
• 04:20 Cuicui: Walking away from a comfortable position to chase her professional edge — quitting to pursue a PhD abroad
• 09:23 Zhihui: Clinging to the "elite graduate" identity, only to find herself a factory worker at a loom in big tech
• 12:56 Zhihui: From a listed corporate to a scrappy little team — finding what she actually loves through the free fall

Part 2: Lessons Learnt and Potholes Hit

• 13:48 Big company vs startup: being a polished cog vs becoming a Swiss army knife
• 19:55 Work is trading your time for what you want — you don't have to be perfect at everything to earn approval
• 23:23 The flip side of startup freedom
• 25:54 Jumping ship like you're fleeing a bad relationship can land you in another fire — know yourself and your target first
• 30:53 Taking back control, building your own moat, and refusing to hand your career choices to someone else

Part 3: Finding Your True Calling

• 33:12 Every road you've walked counts for something
• 35:36 I wanted someone brilliant to show me the way — if that person doesn't exist, I'll become them myself
• 38:27 There's no dream job falling from the sky — your calling isn't a perfect match waiting to be found
• 41:25 Stop hunting for the "right answer" — start listening to how you actually feel
• 45:53 What others call success vs what feels valuable to you
• 49:09 Five years from now: blooming, bearing fruit, and becoming that person you once wished would mentor you

Further Reading

• "Know yourself, know your opponent" — The Art of War by Sun Tzu
• Career coaching: if you're in a fog, talking to a professional can genuinely help

最近翠翠和至卉都经历了各自人生中一次不小的冒险——至卉第一次赴美出差16天，从零开始开拓供应商资源；翠翠则在大英图书馆用英语完成了一场学术汇报，还一手组织了一场跨文化社交活动。两个自认完美主义的人，在高压到快要崩溃的边缘，反而体验到了一种意外的轻盈：准备了120%却只用上60%，睡了两小时却聊出了最真诚的对话，放弃了逐字稿却收获了全场的笑声。这一期关于突破、关于恐惧、关于放手、关于在异国他乡的土地上播下种子然后静待花开。

本期主播：

至卉：生活在中国，注册营养师兼创业公司产品经理，职业上靠研究食物谋生，生活中靠“用嘴表达”解压，持续探索生活与自我的可能性。翠翠：生活在英国，工科博士在读，生活方式试验爱好者，从南京初创公司到北京大厂再到英格兰校园，像河一样流出自己的人生路径。时间轴

Part1 两个完美主义者的宁古塔开荒记

00:05 开场：消失日子里我们去哪了？我们经历的高压突破时刻

01:17 "宁古塔"是什么梗？海外生活好似流放苦寒之地

03:45 首次赴美开荒，四线任务并行，提前三个月焦虑得喘不过气

06:48 完美主义者的过度准备：还没出国就下载了10多个海外App

08:42 "60%法则"：准备100%用到60%——下次是不是准备80%就够了？

Part2 崩溃到无法再完美，不如放飞自我

11:58 从牺牲睡眠到放过自己，任务完不成我还是要睡觉

17:31 不再为汇报写逐字稿，我不管了，PPT就交给Claude做吧

21:43 "微醺状态"的意外收获：放下掌控欲，放飞自我状态更好

23:50 完美主义的背后：害怕自己还不够优秀？

Part3 身份与思维的跃迁，能力在崩溃中长出来

27:07 从零开始组织一场社交活动，我终于邀请到心仪嘉宾

36:31 如果一个人搞不定，那就找人来帮忙

41:58 信心大增的瞬间：与老外畅聊的会谈，LinkedIn上的长篇赞美

Part4 接受情绪，相信自己，迎接挑战

45:12 焦虑和畏难情绪总会出现，但请永远相信自己

55:16 花园种地的隐喻：播种三年后冒出的牡丹，和那些看不见的生长

58:51 做三四月的事，在八九月自有答案，或者明年八九月

延伸阅读 / 相关推荐

• 播客往期相关：EP07 我们和第二语言的相爱相杀（语言焦虑主题的延续）
• 概念延伸："宁古塔"原为清代流放之地，在海外留学/工作群体中成为调侃异国艰苦生活的梗
• 至卉提到的工具：ChatGPT（商务英文邮件辅助）、各类美国生活APP
• 翠翠提到的工具：Claude（AI辅助做PPT和准备汇报）

The perfectionist's frontier experiment: learning to let go at the edge of collapseAbout this episode

Cuicui and Zhihui have both been through the wringer lately — and they're finally ready to talk about it. Zhihui flew to the US for her very first solo business trip, spending 16 days sourcing suppliers across three states with nothing but 156 carefully drafted emails and a boss who wanted to see an NBA game. Meanwhile, Cuicui gave a research talk at the British Library and single-handedly organised a networking event for PhD students, all whilst running on two hours of sleep and a prayer.

What they discovered in the process surprised them both: that their perfectionist instinct to prepare 120% actually only needed about 60% to land well. That the best conversations happened when they were too exhausted to rehearse. That speakers appeared as if by magic once they put their intention out into the world. And that growth — much like the peony bulbs quietly sprouting in Cuicui's neglected garden — sometimes happens underground, long before you see anything bloom.

Timestamps

Part 1 — Two perfectionists on a frontier adventure

• 00:05 Opening: where we've been, and the high-pressure breakthroughs we've each been through
• 01:17 The "Ninggu Tower" joke: life abroad as exile to a cold, barren frontier
• 03:45 Zhihui's first US trip: four parallel workstreams, three months of anxiety before even boarding the plane
• 06:48 The perfectionist's over-preparation: downloading a dozen apps before leaving the country
• 08:42 The "60% rule": we prepared 100%, used 60% — could 80% be enough next time?

Part 2 — Too burnt out for perfection, so we winged it

• 11:58 From sacrificing sleep to letting go: the task can wait, but I still need to sleep
• 17:31 No more memorising scripts: handing the slides to Claude and calling it a day
• 21:43 The unexpected gift of exhaustion: loosening the grip, finding a better flow
• 23:50 What's behind the perfectionism: the fear of not being good enough

Part 3 — Identity shifts — capability growing through near-collapse

• 27:07 Organising a networking event from scratch, and finally landing the dream speakers
• 36:31 When you can't do it alone, ask for help
• 41:58 Moments of breakthrough: a free-flowing chat with an American contact, surprise praise on LinkedIn

Part 4 — Sit with the feelings, trust yourself, and keep going

• 45:12 Anxiety and self-doubt will always show up — but so will you
• 55:16 The garden metaphor: peonies that took three years to emerge, and the seeds we can't yet see
• 58:51 Do the work of March and April; the answers will come in August or September — or maybe next year

Further reading

• Related episode: EP07 — Our love-hate relationship with a second language
• Cultural note: "Ninggu Tower" (宁古塔) was a Qing dynasty exile destination — now used humorously by Chinese expats to describe the hardships of living abroad
• Tools mentioned: ChatGPT (business email drafting), Claude (presentation prep)

养自己啊？问题不大！ — Nurturing Yourself? No Big Deal!照顾好身体，安放好情绪，经营好关系，慢慢长成自己。

从《蓝眼武士》聊起，聊到《非穷尽列举》《初步举证》《泳者之心》，听听我们从这些电影剧集里汲取过哪些养分和勇气吧。

《泳者之心》Young Woman and the Sea 真实故事改编，1920年代Trudy Ederle在父权社会和体育界的双重压制下，成为首位游泳横渡英吉利海峡的女性。身体即抵抗，边界即宣言。

《蓝眼武士》Blue Eye Samurai 江户时代混血女子阿水女扮男装踏上复仇之路，副线是明美公主的觉醒。在没有你容身之处的世界里，给自己凿出一条路。

《初步举证》Prima Facie 顶尖刑事辩护律师Tessa，自己遭遇性侵后发现她一生捍卫的法律系统，对受害者有多不友善。当信念系统崩塌，你还剩下什么？

《非穷尽列举》Inter Alia 同一剧作者Suzie Miller的续集。女法官Jessica，职业上是捍卫性暴力受害者的先锋，却在儿子被指控强奸时，发现自己的一切信仰都被放在天平上。当你既是规则的守护者，又是规则的囚徒——你怎么办？

不认命，不服输，不放弃。愿我们都能在自己的故事里，成为不被定义的主角。

本期主播：

至卉：生活在中国，注册营养师兼创业公司产品经理，职业上靠研究食物谋生，生活中靠“用嘴表达”解压，持续探索生活与自我的可能性。翠翠：生活在英国，工科博士在读，生活方式试验爱好者，从南京初创公司到北京大厂再到英格兰校园，像河一样流出自己的人生路径。主播语录：

• “明美一直知道自己的美貌和智慧是武器，她是如水的女人。”
• “女性不要下牌桌。抗争不是因为一定能赢，而是因为你信这个东西。”
• “纯粹的目标和信念没有为什么，如果一个人能找到不为什么也要达成的目标，那是一件很幸运的事。”
• "我对我的职业有尊敬，我也不管你们对我有什么评价，这就是我的理想，你不能踩踏我的理想，你不能踩踏我的信仰，所以我必须抗争到底。"

时间轴Part 1：不被定义的女性，在枷锁中活出自我

0:02:00 初遇《蓝眼武士》，非典型女主的暴力美学

0:04:30 明美：从被驯化的公主到自己的主人

0:09:46 阿水：极端的仇恨造就极致的强大

0:13:43 两种女性生存路径：活成男人VS如水智慧

0:19:14 不止于女性：配角和男性群像同样精彩

Part 2：隐形的围墙，当女性面对为男性设计的世界

0:22:50《非穷尽列举》：儿子性侵，法官妈妈怎么办

0:24:34 旧时代男子气概的阴影：女性成功=男人的威胁

0:30:28 女性的抗争，剧集中的女性们的非典型道路

0:36:55《初步举证》：从辩护律师到性侵受害者

0:41:35 坚持直面痛苦，遍体鳞伤也从不逃避

Part 3：不认命，不服输，不放弃

0:43:29 法律精神的信仰：抗争不是因为能赢，而是因为信

0:45:20 《泳者之心》的最后十海里，纯粹的信念没有为什么

0:47:05 坚信公平正义，“No is No”

0:48:28 还未完结的作品，期待女性角色的未来之路

Episode Introduction

We start with Blue Eye Samurai and journey through Inter Alia, Prima Facie, and Young Woman and the Sea—come and hear what nourishment and courage we've drawn from these films and series.

Young Woman and the Sea—based on a true story. In the 1920s, Trudy Ederle, under the dual suppression of a patriarchal society and the sporting world, became the first woman to swim across the English Channel. Her body was her resistance, the boundary her declaration.

Blue Eye Samurai—in the Edo period, mixed-race Mizu disguises herself as a man and embarks on a path of vengeance, whilst the subplot follows Princess Akemi's awakening. In a world with no place for you, carve out your own path.

Prima Facie—top criminal defence barrister Tessa, after experiencing sexual assault herself, discovers just how hostile the legal system she spent her life defending is towards victims. When your belief system collapses, what do you have left?

Inter Alia—a sequel by the same playwright, Suzie Miller. Female judge Jessica is a champion for victims of sexual violence in her career, yet when her son is accused of rape, she finds all her beliefs placed on the scales. When you are both guardian of the rules and prisoner of them—what do you do?

Refuse to accept fate. Refuse to admit defeat. Refuse to give up. May we all become the undefined protagonists of our own stories.

当生存需求被满足后，我们花钱到底在买什么？存钱到底在存什么？什么才叫真正的“富有”？

从春节期间的一次购物经历出发，我们聊了聊消费背后的心理，以及感受层面上我们和钱的关系变化。从至卉对于“商务感”的潜意识定义和只舍得为工作花钱的无意识消费观聊起，聊到为爱好、喜好和形象付费的愉悦感，再到消费行为背后的底层需求。我们的消费行为真的满足了我们的需求吗？从满足多种需求的角度来看，如果价格贵的单品可以同时满足多种需求，相较于一件便宜商品满足单一需求，也许价格贵的反而更划算。

我们对省钱、存钱和划算，似乎也有考量和执念，往深处探索，我们在消费观与金钱观方面的变化受中国快速发展的时代背景和自身成长轨迹的影响，但是脑袋意识到了变化，感受和认知好像还没有完全跟上节奏。来自小时候名为“延迟满足”、“限量满足”、“奖励性满足”的匮乏感之箭，如何在消费观、金钱观、价值观和配得感方面，击中三十多岁的我们？当下的喜欢很珍贵啊，成年后的我们怎样用新的方式对待自己的喜欢呢？

过时的消费观念有时也会限制我们对外探索和持续创造，到底是“钱是生活的目的”，还是说“钱是支持我们寻找理想生活、创造理想生活的工具之一“呢？是金钱的数额带来安全感和富足感，还是美好的感受带来金钱的正向流动？

来听听我们都是怎么聊的吧！边听边迎接火马年的丰盛和繁荣。财源滚滚、恭喜发财。

本期语录：

• “如果一直要延迟满足，其实永远都不会被满足。” 
• “当下的喜欢很珍贵！同样的东西你现在喜欢，如果拖着拖着，可能后面就不喜欢了。” 
• “网球拍怎么会是我学好网球之后得到的奖励？它应该是我开始学网球时的基础配置啊。”
• “你买什么能有愉悦感，体现的是你的内心世界。” 
• “如果能够分清楚哪些是来自于匮乏的欲望，哪些是真正让自己开心的事，那就真的不需要花多少钱。” 
• “存钱带来的是向外探索和选择的底气，不是为了买房子买豪车，它在那里就是我的底气。” 
• “如果只看收入、只看存款，我这几年绝对是负的。但如果看我现在的国际化社交圈、认知层面的提升、在不同环境下生存的自信，这些收益没有办法用钱衡量。” 
• “钱可以帮助我们快点变成富婆，但并不是成为富婆的唯一途径。” 
• ”富足是一种丰盛而繁荣的生命感受。“

本期主播：

至卉：生活在中国，注册营养师兼创业公司产品经理，职业上靠研究食物谋生，生活中靠“用嘴表达”解压，持续探索生活与自我的可能性。翠翠：生活在英国，工科博士在读，生活方式试验爱好者，从南京初创公司到北京大厂再到英格兰校园，像河一样流出自己的人生路径。时间轴Part 1：我们买的是什么？消费背后的真相

0:01:16 春节逛街，我为什么多花了一倍的钱？

0:06:36 多花的钱，买的是“愉悦的体验”和“想要成为的自己”

0:09:12 配得感：要赚多少钱才配买一千块的衣服？

0:13:30 延迟满足：学了大半年网球，等到何时才能奖励自己一支网球拍？

0:18:25 消费观的代际差，消费心态还可以再养一养

Part 2：有钱花VS有财富，什么才是富足？

0:23:23 欲望来自匮乏，真正的富足不一定要有很多钱

0:28:24 我迟早都是富婆，怎样才是富婆？

0:31:28 留下来的才叫财富，花掉的那些只是“有钱花”

0:32:25 存钱带来的是向外探索和选择的底气

0:35:42 容错空间：给自己留点余地，存钱的心态才能平稳

Part 3: 我们与金钱的关系，滋养而非消耗

0:39:24 纵身一跃这几年没赚到钱，但赚到了更重要的东西

0:43:10 合乎情理比理性更重要：让我安心的理财方式就是最好的方式

0:45:18 从消耗到滋养：别再为买不买网球拍消耗自己了，买！

0:46:33 富婆的终极定义：不是银行卡余额，而是“我值得”的感觉

0:47:47 恭喜发财，是祝愿你的生活丰盛而繁荣

你对金钱和消费有什么样的思考？欢迎留言和我们聊聊！

Episode Introduction

Once our basic needs are met, what are we really buying when we spend money? What are we really saving when we save? And what does it truly mean to be "wealthy"?

Starting from a shopping experience during Chinese New Year, we explored the psychology behind our spending. Beginning with Zhihui's subconscious definition of "professional style" and her unconscious tendency to only feel comfortable spending on work-related things, we talked about the pleasure of paying for hobbies, preferences, and personal image, and then delved into the deeper needs behind our spending behaviours. Does our spending actually fulfil our real needs? From a perspective of meeting multiple needs, if a pricier item can satisfy several needs at once, compared to a cheap item meeting just one, perhaps the expensive option is actually better value.

We seem to have our own considerations and fixations around saving money, building savings, and getting good value. Digging deeper, our evolving attitudes towards spending and money have been shaped by China's rapid development and our own life trajectories. Our minds have registered the changes, but our feelings and perceptions haven't quite caught up. How do the arrows of scarcity from childhood—labelled "delayed gratification," "limited satisfaction," and "reward-based fulfilment"—strike us in our thirties, affecting our views on spending, money, values, and worthiness? What we like in the present moment is precious—as adults, how do we treat the things we love?

Outdated spending habits can sometimes limit our outward exploration and ongoing creativity. Is money the purpose of life, or is it simply one of the tools that supports us in seeking and creating our ideal life? Is it the amount of money that brings security and abundance, or is it positive feelings that bring a healthy flow of money?

Come and hear how we unpacked all of this! Listen along as you welcome the abundance and prosperity of the Year of the Fire Horse. May wealth flow your way—wishing you prosperity!

春节将至，买买买的季节又来了。

至卉染了个红头发迎接本命年，终于舍得换掉那个跟了她十年、伤痕累累的行李箱——明明还能用，但她决定「不再当那个把东西用到烂为止的奴隶主」了。

这些看似微小的消费变化，背后藏着我们这些年悄悄发生的心态转变。

从学生时代花家里钱的不安，到初入职场用口红和小西装武装自己；从盲目买课交「知识税」，到慢慢摸索出属于自己的花钱准则——我们发现，所谓「理性消费」从来不是套公式，而是找到那条属于自己的、和钱好好相处的路。

这期我们聊了很多：为什么有人买课一定要上完，买口红却可以不用完？到底是钱带来安全感，还是安全感有利于创造财富？以及，当你终于舍得为「不必要但让自己开心」的东西花钱时，生活会发生什么变化？

新年将至，祝大家都能找到让自己舒服的消费节奏——财源滚滚，恭喜发财🧧

本期主播：

至卉：生活在中国，注册营养师兼创业公司产品经理，职业上靠研究食物谋生，生活中靠“用嘴表达”解压，持续探索生活与自我的可能性。翠翠：生活在英国，工科博士在读，生活方式试验爱好者，从南京初创公司到北京大厂再到英格兰校园，像河一样流出自己的人生路径。

时间轴

Part1：从学生到职场，消费如何塑造了我们？

消费的变化，见证着我们身份的转换与自我的探索。

00:01:50:春节购物，我的消费习惯和以前不一样了

00:04:28:学生时代的拮据感，化妆品是必需品吗？

00:07:59:初入职场的大额消费，花钱打造职业盔甲

00:16:32:花钱学理财，有了公式我还是没学会

Part2：理性VS感性，寻找自己的消费行为准则

真正的理性消费，不是套用公式，而是内化出坚定的花钱原则。

00:18:16 为想要的生活买单，让我们和钱的关系正向流动

00:22:22 理性消费，是坚持自己的消费行为准则

00:26:46:买课不上VS买口红不用，是同一种消费混乱？

00:29:49:理性消费的弹性：增加为感受和体验付费的空间

00:33:25:从购物车里发现自己的真正需求

00:38:01:抛开记账完美主义，让账本成为帮手

Part3：金钱的终点，是我们想要的生活

金钱不是困住我们的围栏，而是通往平静喜悦的道路。

00:40:07:金钱压力的解药，不是拼命赚钱而是调整心态

00:45:04:有钱VS有安全感，孰先孰后？

00:46:18:无痛记账法，减少情绪性消费的工具

00:48:54:动态调整理性消费的灵活度，让钱服务于生活

00:54:51:舍得花钱买时间，是为了创造更大的价值

00:57:29:享受消费→自驱赚钱→财源滚滚

Lipsticks and Lessons: The Evolution of Personal SpendingEpisode Introduction

Spring Festival is around the corner, and shopping season is upon us.

Zhihui dyed her hair red for her zodiac year. Cuicui finally replaced the battered suitcase that's been with her for ten years — still functional, but she decided to stop being "the slave driver who squeezes every last bit of value out of her belongings."

These small spending changes hint at the quiet shifts happening inside us.

From the guilt of spending family money as students, to arming ourselves with lipstick and blazers when we first entered the workforce; from blindly buying courses as "knowledge tax," to slowly figuring out our own rules for spending — we've realised that "rational consumption" was never about following formulas. It's about finding your own way of getting along with money.

We talked about a lot this episode: Why must some people finish every course they buy, yet feel fine leaving lipsticks unused? Does security come from money, or from within? And what changes when you finally allow yourself to spend on things that are "unnecessary but make you happy"?

First episode of the new year — may you all find a spending rhythm that feels right. Wishing you rolling fortunes and a prosperous year ahead 🧧

TimestampsPart 1: From Student to Professional — How Spending Shaped Us

Our spending habits mirror our identity shifts and self-discovery.

• 01:50 Spring Festival shopping: my spending habits have changed
• 04:28 Student days frugality: were cosmetics ever a necessity?
• 07:59 Early career splurges: spending money to build professional armour
• 16:32 Paying to learn about money — and still not getting it

Part 2: Rational VS Emotional — Finding Your Own Spending Principles

True rational spending isn't about formulas. It's about internalising your own rules for money.

• 18:16 Spending for the life you want: creating a positive flow with money
• 22:22 Rational spending means sticking to your own principles
• 26:46 Unused courses VS unused lipsticks: the same kind of chaos?
• 29:49 Adding flexibility: making room for feelings and experiences
• 33:25 Discovering your true needs through your shopping cart
• 38:01 Letting go of budgeting perfectionism

Part 3: Where Money Leads — The Life We Actually Want

Money isn't a cage. It's a path towards peace and joy.

• 40:07 The cure for money stress isn't earning more — it's shifting your mindset
• 45:04 Which comes first: money or a sense of security?
• 46:18 Painless budgeting: a tool to reduce emotional spending
• 48:54 Adjusting your spending rules to serve your life
• 54:51 Spending money to save time creates greater value
• 57:29 Enjoy spending → motivated earning → rolling fortunes

We'd love to hear from you in the comments!

新年刚过，不知道你的Flag里有没有一条关于"学英语"或"学一门新语言"？

职场牛马被逼对接海外供应商、读博留子在异国他乡生存、访学艺术家限时体验——我们三个人学习第二语言的契机各不相同，但当语言不再只是为了考试的时候，我们都感受到了它的力量和魅力。

追求正确是应试教育的后遗症，像小孩子学母语一样去感受和实践，英语水平反而突飞猛进。原来我们学的早就够用，只是被考试打击了自信。当我们放下"对错"的执念，定制属于自己的学习方法，语言学习变成了一件有趣又可以坚持下去的事。

语言的边界就是认知的边界。学习第二语言不仅是获得一个新工具，更是打开观察世界的另一扇窗——它转换了我们的思维和视角，让我们重新认识自己的母语文化，甚至改变了工作方式和生活状态。

接受模糊性，享受持续无痛的学习；不正确才让我变得有趣；用正反馈学习，收获中年叛逆的喜悦。愿你也能在第二语言的世界里，学得有效、学得开心，找到属于自己的那扇窗。

本期主播：

至卉：生活在中国，注册营养师兼创业公司产品经理，职业上靠研究食物谋生，生活中靠“用嘴表达”解压，持续探索生活与自我的可能性。翠翠：生活在英国，工科博士在读，生活方式试验爱好者，从南京初创公司到北京大厂再到英格兰校园，像河一样流出自己的人生路径。

本期嘉宾：

叶帆：当代艺术家、艺术学院教师，从事当代水墨、纤维艺术创作与教学时间轴

Part1：我们与第二语言的相爱相杀，被动到主动

00:02:07 职场牛马，海外访学，读博留子，我们学习第二语言的契机各有不同

00:05:43 追求语言的正确，是应试教育的后遗症

00:07:24 像小孩子学母语一样学习，英语水平突飞猛进

00:13:52 不再用考试衡量语言水平，原来我们学的早就够用

00:17:04 从零到一的快乐，语言应用的正反馈

00:20:33 定制自己的学习方法和教材

Part2：第二语言对我们的重塑，新语言到新思维

00:22:58 转换语言，也转换了思维和视角

00:26:26 语言的边界就是认知的边界

00:27:51 第二语言让我们重新认识自己的母语文化

00:32:08 从工作思维到生活方式，第二语言带给我们的意外惊喜

Part3：第二语言学习的持续进阶，无痛到享受

00:39:15 接受模糊性，享受持续无痛的英语学习

00:47:00 学习语言是创造，不正确才让我变有趣

00:49:26 突破新手期，进阶状态的语言颗粒度

00:57:00 用正反馈学习，中年叛逆的喜悦来源

你和第二语言有什么相爱相杀的故事？欢迎留言和我们分享！

New year, new resolutions—does yours include "learn English" or "pick up a new language"?

A corporate worker forced to liaise with overseas suppliers, a doctoral student surviving abroad, an artist on a visiting fellowship—our journeys into learning a second language began quite differently. But when language learning stopped being about exams, we all discovered its true power and charm.

The obsession with being "correct" is a hangover from exam-oriented education. Learning like a child learns their mother tongue—through feeling and practice—our English actually improved by leaps and bounds. It turns out what we'd learnt was already enough; exams had simply knocked our confidence. Once we let go of the "right or wrong" mentality and crafted our own learning methods, language learning became something that gave back.

The boundaries of language are the boundaries of cognition. Learning a second language isn't just acquiring a new tool—it's opening another window onto the world. It shifts our thinking and perspective, helps us rediscover our mother tongue and culture, and even transforms how we work and live.

Embrace ambiguity, enjoy continuous and painless learning; imperfection makes us interesting; learn through positive feedback and discover the joy of middle-aged rebellion. May you too find your own window in the world of a second language.

Timestamps

Part 1: Our Love-Hate Relationship with a Second Language—From Passive to Active

• 00:02:07 Corporate worker, visiting scholar, doctoral student abroad—our reasons for learning a second language differ
• 00:05:43 The obsession with correctness is a hangover from exam-oriented education
• 00:07:24 Learning like a child learns their mother tongue—English improves by leaps and bounds
• 00:13:52 Stop measuring language ability by exams—what we've learnt is already enough
• 00:17:04 The joy of going from zero to one—positive feedback from using language
• 00:20:33 Crafting your own learning methods and materials

Part 2: How a Second Language Reshapes Us—New Language, New Thinking

• 00:22:58 Switching languages also switches our thinking and perspective
• 00:26:26 The boundaries of language are the boundaries of cognition
• 00:27:51 A second language helps us rediscover our mother tongue and culture
• 00:32:08 From work mindset to lifestyle—unexpected gifts from a second language

Part 3: Continuing to Level Up—From Painless to Joyful

• 00:39:15 Embrace ambiguity, enjoy continuous and painless English learning
• 00:47:00 Language learning is creation—imperfection makes me interesting
• 00:49:26 Breaking through the beginner phase—the granularity of advanced language
• 00:57:00 Learning through positive feedback—the joy of middle-aged rebellion

What's your love-hate story with a second language? We'd love to hear from you in the comments!

营养师、工程师与水墨艺术家在专业上相隔千里，听听我们碰撞出了什么火花吧？在这期播客里，我们和青年艺术家叶帆聊了聊艺术家的真实生活、成为艺术家的心路历程，以及艺术对普通人的意义。

艺术家是什么样的人？疯狂、敏锐、孤独、穷？还是另一个世界的存在？成为艺术家，不是选择而是被选中。这条路上有痛苦、挣扎与孤独，也有单纯、真诚与永远的鲜活。在叶帆描述自己的来时路时，工科博士生也深深地共鸣起来，求知与求索的道路总是相似，对于作品的打磨、思辨和感受越往深处去，就越接近“道”与“术”的共舞。

艺术是理性与感性的交织，是帮助我们找到自己的镜子。而艺术家与普通人的区别，不是疯狂，而是拥有一份笃定的自信。艺术欣赏有门槛吗？看不懂艺术展怎么办？叶帆说，不用看懂，只需还原本真地去感受。身心管道通畅，艺术就会流淌。艺术与生活都需要留白才有呼吸。愿我们都能欣赏艺术，艺术地生活。把"自己"这件作品打磨到极致，我们就是我们自己最好的艺术品。

本期主播：

至卉：生活在中国，注册营养师兼创业公司产品经理，职业上靠研究食物谋生，生活中靠“用嘴表达”解压，持续探索生活与自我的可能性。翠翠：生活在英国，工科博士在读，生活方式试验爱好者，从南京初创公司到北京大厂再到英格兰校园，像河一样流出自己的人生路径。

本期嘉宾：

叶帆：当代艺术家、艺术学院教师，从事当代水墨、纤维艺术创作与教学

代表作：

第一次和一位艺术家对话，原来艺术家并非疯狂的异类，艺术与我的距离也没有非遥不可及。艺术家不是简单的一份职业，而是一种存在方式，一种极致鲜活、真诚的存在。叶帆的成长经历让我知道艺术研究可以与科学研究一样严肃，要理性地探索与积累，更必须经历痛苦和挣扎。然而作为艺术创作者，即便被命运磨砺，踏遍荆棘，也要永远保持对生活的敏锐，像孩子一样用单纯的双眼发现美，定义美，传达美。叶帆曾经对我说：“当艺术家，就是不遗余力地成为自己。”我们成为不了艺术家，但我们可以像艺术家一样勇敢地做自己。——至卉

如果你也喜欢艺术，或者有被艺术击中过的瞬间，欢迎给我们留言讨论！

时间轴

Part1：艺术家，和你想的不一样

艺术家与普通人的区别不是疯狂，而是拥有艺术家的自信

00:02:02 艺术家叶帆是谁？

00:03:00 工科博士与艺术家的相识：混凝土实验室里的艺术火花

00:05:57 打破刻板印象：艺术家并非疯狂异类

Part2：成为艺术家，不是选择而是被选中

艺术家是痛苦、挣扎、孤独的，也是单纯、真诚、永远鲜活的

00:09:39 艺术家的内核：信念与“被选择”

00:12:03 从研究生到读博，从孤独求索到确定艺术的信念

00:18:52 艺术是理性与感性的交织

00:22:35 艺术是镜子，帮助我们找到自己

Part3：我们与艺术的距离，艺术对普通人的意义是什么？

愿我们都能欣赏艺术，艺术地生活

00:30:07 艺术家的谋生与坚守，给予普通人追逐梦想的勇气

00:36:11 艺术成就来自于沉淀，目标的实现非岁月不可得

00:39:22 身心管道通畅，艺术就会流淌

00:45:48 保持鲜活的心法：不取悦讨好，只在乎快乐

00:50:16 艺术与生活都需要留白才有呼吸

00:54:47 艺术欣赏无需门槛，只需还原本真地感受

00:57:20 走进艺术馆呆一会吧

What are artists really like? Mad, sensitive, lonely, poor? Or beings from another world entirely? Becoming an artist isn't a choice—it's being chosen. This path holds pain, struggle, and solitude, but also purity, sincerity, and everlasting vitality. As Yefan described the journey she's undertaken, our engineering PhD found herself deeply resonating with it. The paths of seeking knowledge and seeking truth are always similar—the deeper one goes into refining, reflecting upon, and feeling one's work, the closer one comes to the dance between "Dao" and "craft."

Art is the interweaving of rationality and emotion, a mirror that helps us find ourselves. What sets artists apart from ordinary people isn't madness, but a quiet, steadfast confidence. Does appreciating art require expertise? What if you can't understand an exhibition? Yefan says there's no need to understand—just return to your true self and feel. When body and mind flow freely, art will flow too. Both art and life need breathing room—space left unfilled.

May we all learn to appreciate art and live artfully. Polish the work of art that is "yourself" to perfection—for we are each our own finest masterpiece.

If you love art or have ever been struck by a moment of artistic wonder, we'd love to hear from you in the comments!

34岁是一种什么感觉？

30+的旅途走过了一半左右，回看成长轨迹，34岁在我们的生命历程中似乎是一个重要的转折点。这期节目录制的当天，恰好是至卉34岁的最后一天。35岁在社会时钟下可能是一个令人焦虑的年纪，但我们却在这个年纪收获了意想不到的礼物。

断崖式衰老的恐慌、脱离主流轨道的迷茫、人生倒计时的焦灼、反复纠缠的旧模式……这些困惑与挣扎，原来不是一个人的年龄焦虑。但神奇的转折也在这一年悄然发生——不是"我该搞明白了"，而是"我可以带着不明白继续向前走了"。

人的成熟是一个漫长的过程，就像新神经链路的形成需要不断强化，我们在人生蜕变期的转变也有螺旋式发展的进程，听听我们在34岁这一年经历了什么样的转折、在“长脑子”的过程中有怎样的心路历程、又对未来怀抱怎样的期待吧。

年龄只是一种感觉，是相信谜题终将有答案的感觉。愿你也能活成自己值得且想要的样子——心澄丰盈，身行自在。

如果你也正在经历人生的转折期，欢迎留言和我们分享你的故事！

本期主播：

至卉：生活在中国，注册营养师兼创业公司产品经理，职业上靠研究食物谋生，生活中靠“用嘴表达”解压，持续探索生活与自我的可能性。翠翠：生活在英国，工科博士在读，生活方式试验爱好者，从南京初创公司到北京大厂再到英格兰校园，像河一样流出自己的人生路径。时间轴

Part0: 34岁是什么感觉？

从混乱里找出路，从恐惧里找礼物，34岁的感觉是成长痛

00:03:12:用三个词来形容34岁的感觉

Part1: 34岁之前，我们在恐惧、混乱些什么？

原来不是我一个人的年龄焦虑

00:09:06:断崖衰老的具象化，不得不直面的身体机能下降

00:12:01:选择了非主流职业道路，失去社会身份的认同

00:17:49:悬在头上的婚姻生育倒计时，不断重复的旧关系模式

Part2: 34岁这一年，我们怎么神奇转折了？

不是“我该搞明白了“”，而是“我可以带着不明白继续向前走了”

00:20:23:不再强制自律，改善生活方式造就身体好状态

00:26:48:抛弃固定的模板和确定的轨迹，我们决定先上路再说

00:40:42:转换角度看待关系，友情爱情我们都更加自由

Part3: 34岁的终极回馈与期待

我们终于开始活成自己值得且想要的样子，年龄只是一种感觉

00:51:24:年龄是一种感觉，34岁我们重塑新生

00:54:56:写在35岁的生日箴言：心澄丰盈，身行自在

What does 34 feel like?

Halfway through our thirties, looking back at the trajectory of our lives, 34 seems to be a significant turning point. This episode was recorded on the very last day of Zhihui's 34th year. Whilst 35 might be an anxiety-inducing age by society's standards, we've discovered unexpected gifts at this milestone.

The panic of sudden ageing, the confusion of straying from the conventional path, the pressure of life's ticking clocks, old patterns that keep resurfacing... these struggles and doubts, as it turns out, aren't unique to any one person's age anxiety. Yet magical transformations quietly unfolded this year—not "I should have it all figured out by now," but rather "I can keep moving forward whilst carrying my uncertainties."

Growing into ourselves is a long journey. Just as new neural pathways need constant reinforcement to form, our transformations during life's pivotal moments follow a spiral progression. Listen to what turning points we experienced at 34, the inner journey of "growing a new brain," and what hopes we hold for the future.

Age is merely a feeling—a feeling of trusting that life's puzzles will eventually reveal their answers. May you too live as the person you deserve and wish to be—with a clear and abundant heart, moving freely through life.

If you're also going through a turning point in life, we'd love to hear your story in the comments!

本期主播：

至卉：生活在中国，注册营养师兼创业公司产品经理，职业上靠研究食物谋生，生活中靠“用嘴表达”解压，持续探索生活与自我的可能性。翠翠：生活在英国，工科博士在读，生活方式试验爱好者，从南京初创公司到北京大厂再到英格兰校园，像河一样流出自己的人生路径。

年轻时那些无意识、无理由的选择，似乎藏着理解自己的钥匙。当我们逐渐成熟，回望人生的脉络，才发现那些看似偶然的轨迹早已悄然勾勒出命运的轮廓。

在本期播客中，至卉和翠翠分享了她们参与非营利组织的经历与收获。从学生时代的志愿服务启程，到职场之外的头马演讲俱乐部、健康社群、CIHT……她们在非盈利组织中安全试错、放肆成长。

演讲台上的勇气与突破、策划活动时的掌控感、收获前辈指点时的豁然开朗、在别人反馈中撞见看不见的自我，这些过程里的心流状态、能力迁移、人际滋养和自我发现，都是在职场之外养育自己的小魔法。

无论是I人破圈链接高阶人脉，还是玩儿着就做成了原本不敢想的事，非盈利组织都提供了一片安全试错的土壤。当然，有人的地方就有江湖，时间精力的取舍、生活重心的平衡，都是需要面对的课题。不过这些成长也许都需要投入和坚持作为基础，需要一定时间和精力的浇灌才能发挥效用。

听听至卉和翠翠参与过哪些组织、从中体悟到哪些智慧、又从公益经历里积累了哪些成就感和自信吧！找不到适合自己的组织？那就动手创造一个。非营利活动不仅是服务他人，也是自我成长的契机。希望对职场外成长感兴趣的你，可以有一些启发。

时间轴

00:02:46:从学生时代开始的志愿活动，无意识地选择是命运安排的轨迹

00:08:39:成为Toastmaster头马俱乐部的一员，我管理的人数比我老板的还要多

00:10:58 没有利益的冲突，非盈利组织让我安全试错，放肆成长

00:12:27:找到适合自己的组织，I人也能轻松破圈链接高阶人脉

00:18:54:在组织中收获前辈的人生指点，原来我的困惑并非独一份

00:20:49:脱离职场环境放手去干，玩儿着就做成了原本不敢想的事

00:25:16:非盈利组织与职场中的能力迁移，互相滋养的正循环

00:27:07:时间精力的取舍，组织参与度与生活重心的平衡

00:29:56:有人的地方就有江湖，非营利组织不是乌托邦而是世间百态的缩影

00:33:34:找不到适合自己的组织，那就动手创造一个

00:38:04:非盈利组织丰富了业余生活，幸福感大大提升

00:39:57:切换不同的展示面，在别人的反馈中，我撞见了看不见的自我

00:43:59:未来非盈利探索之路，寻找属于你的组织来为人生服务

The unconscious, seemingly random choices we make when we're young often hold the key to understanding ourselves. As we grow and mature, looking back at the trajectory of our lives, we realise that those seemingly accidental paths have long been quietly shaping our destiny.

In this episode, Zhihui and Cuicui share their experiences and insights from participating in non-profit organisations. Starting from volunteer work during their school days, to Toastmasters, health communities, and CIHT beyond the workplace—they found safe spaces to experiment, make mistakes, and grow freely.

The courage and breakthroughs on the speaking stage, the sense of control when organising events, the moments of clarity from mentors' guidance, and discovering unseen parts of themselves through others' feedback—the flow states, skill transfers, interpersonal nourishment, and self-discovery in these experiences are all little bits of magic for nurturing oneself outside of work.

Whether it's introverts breaking out of their shells to connect with accomplished professionals, or accomplishing things they never dared to imagine whilst simply having fun, non-profit organisations provide fertile ground for safe experimentation. Of course, where there are people, there is politics. Balancing time and energy, and juggling organisational involvement with life priorities are challenges that must be faced. But this growth requires investment and persistence as its foundation—it needs time and effort to truly flourish.

Listen to Zhihui and Cuicui talk about the organisations they've been part of, the wisdom they've gained, and the sense of achievement and confidence they've accumulated through their volunteering experiences! Can't find an organisation that suits you? Then create one yourself. Non-profit work isn't just about serving others—it's also an opportunity for self-growth. We hope this episode inspires those of you interested in growing beyond the workplace.

本期主播：

至卉：生活在中国，注册营养师兼创业公司产品经理，职业上靠研究食物谋生，生活中靠“用嘴表达”解压，持续探索生活与自我的可能性。翠翠：生活在英国，工科博士在读，生活方式试验爱好者，从南京初创公司到北京大厂再到英格兰校园，像河一样流出自己的人生路径。

独居的日子，是一场与自己的漫长对话。

• Part 1 · 独居生活的快乐时光

从什么时候开始，家变成了完全属于自己的领地？

厨房、厕所、阳台都是我的，沙发上摊着的睡衣不必收起，不用踮着脚走路怕吵醒谁，不用在疲惫的夜晚还挤出笑脸寒暄，想加班就加班，想赖床就赖床。

空间自由，时间自由，关系自由。而真正的自由不是想做什么就做什么——是想不做什么，就可以不做什么。

Part 1 时间轴

00:03:51:一个人住，我不再因为空间的共用而让渡我的时间自由

00:07:05:独居的自由是想不做什么就不做什么

• Part 2 · 独居生活的担忧与应对

当然，一个人的城堡偶尔也会漏风。

买一颗卷心菜吃到发蔫还没吃完，看到搞笑视频想分享却发现身边空无一人。还有那些猝不及防的时刻：发烧到爬不起来，水管突然炸裂，隔壁传来尴尬的深夜运动声响……

偶尔也会想，如果有个人在就好了。但我们也慢慢摸索出了一套独居生存指南，学会和这些小麻烦和平共处。

Part 2 时间轴

00:09:50:独居要面临的现实问题和安全焦虑，倒逼我们生出锦囊妙计

00:14:16:自由与孤独的一体两面，那些微小时刻我也很想身边有个人多好

• Part 3 · 独居生活里炼出的铠甲

独居久了，会长出一些看不见的东西。

开始相信自己有解决问题的能力和资源，培养出构建日常小确幸的本领。大量的时间里能平静地与自己相处，不再觉得空白是一种亏欠。

不再害怕孤立无援，因为任何时刻都有独当一面的底气。

那什么情况下会结束独居呢？也许是遇到一个人，让「一起」比「一个人」更自在吧！

Part 3 时间轴

00:23:56:获得自由后自我管理能力提升，自信和底气疯涨

00:29:17:从害怕一个人到享受独处，必须经历混乱才有内心安定

00:34:08:独居撕碎了自我保护机制，我终于面对了最脆弱也最天真的自我

00:38:16:独居是人格成熟的加速器，E人和I人都有了另一面

00:44:24:什么时候结束独居？自有生活给我们答案

一个人生活，是孤独，也是自由；是软肋，也是铠甲。

Living alone is a long, quiet conversation with yourself.

• Part 1 · The Joy of Solitude

When did home become a kingdom of one?

The kitchen is mine. The bathroom is mine. The pajamas draped across the sofa can stay exactly where they are. No tiptoeing around a sleeping roommate, no mustering small talk after an exhausting day, no negotiating over whose turn it is to take out the trash. I can work late if I want, sleep in if I want, and cook a pungent bowl of river snail noodles at midnight, letting the smell linger without apology.

Freedom of space, freedom of time, freedom in relationships. And true freedom isn't about doing whatever you want—it's about not doing what you don't want to do.

• Part 2 · The Worries and How We Cope

Of course, a castle for one can sometimes feel drafty.

A strange noise at night sends the heart racing. A whole cabbage wilts in the fridge before it's finished. A hilarious scene on TV begs to be shared, but there's no one beside you to laugh with. Then come the moments that catch you off guard: a fever that pins you to the bed, a pipe that bursts without warning, a clogged drain, or the unmistakable sounds of a neighbor's... late-night cardio.

In those moments, a fleeting thought surfaces: it might be nice to have someone here. But with time, we learn to build our own survival guide—making peace with the little inconveniences, one by one.

• Part 3 · The Armor Forged in Solitude

Live alone long enough, and something invisible begins to grow.

You learn to manage your time and space with intention. You come to trust that you have the ability—and the resources—to solve your own problems. You develop a quiet talent for creating small joys out of ordinary days. All those hours spent with yourself, once filled anxiously with tasks and distractions, eventually settle into a calm presence. Silence stops feeling like something you owe an explanation for.

You're no longer afraid of being on your own, because you know you can stand on your own two feet, anytime, anywhere.

So when would you end this solo chapter? Perhaps when you meet someone who makes "together" feel even more effortless than "alone."