This week, Emma is joined by sustainability sector stalwart and optimist Mark Shayler for a deep dive into his book You Cant Make Money From a Dead Planet. Mark shares his career journey, the challenges and lessons of working in sustainability, and his recent personal health scare.

The conversation tackles why businesses must embed sustainability at their core, the importance of systems thinking, and the danger of reducing sustainability to PR or compliance.

Mark and Emma discuss the sector’s obsession with targets, why missing them isn’t a scandal, and how real progress means looking forward, not just reporting on the past.

Key Topics

• Mark Shayler’s career journey: from environmental science to council, consultancy, Asda, and beyond (01:19)
• Why disaster is not always personal and the importance of resilience (13:06)
• What businesses get wrong about sustainability strategy (25:59)
• The pitfalls of putting sustainability in PR, marketing, or as just compliance (26:04)
• Reconciling economics and ecology—the two are deeply connected (21:19)
• Targets, failure, and the opportunity for a ‘mass awakening’ in the industry (32:04)
• Circularity, systems thinking, and the consumer’s role in change (40:10)
• The need to focus on system and government change, not just individual action (48:03)

Mark’s Book: You Cant Make Money From a Dead Planet

• Written to reclaim his authority as an environmental scientist and offer practical pathways for businesses from “zero to net zero” (15:10)
• Challenges the sector’s myopic focus on totem issues (e.g., plastic) rather than systemic impact (16:28)
• Advocates for democratizing sustainability—making it accessible beyond a middle class concern (19:21)

Key Takeaways

• Sustainability should be at the heart of business—not a marketing bolt-on or compliance tick-box.
• Hitting (or missing) targets isn’t the main thing: direction, transparency, and a willingness to improve matter more (32:04).
• True change comes from systems, not just individual guilt—push for policy and industry reform (48:03).
• The world is facing interconnected crises—now is the time for businesses to wake up and act.

Resources & Links

• Mark Shayler’s book: You Cant Make Money From a Dead Planet [Available from the usual outlets]
• Connect with Mark:
• LinkedIn: Mark Shayler
• Website: markshayler.com
• lighthousesustainability.co.uk – subscribe to The Beacon newsletter

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