Straight Talking Sustainability

In this episode of Straight Talking Sustainability, Emma Burlow talks with Rhian Sherrington, founder of the Women in Sustainability Network, about building meaningful professional communities, navigating gender bias, and developing the inner capacity to lead through conflict and uncertainty.

Rhian Sherrington, FRSA, MSc

Rhian Sherrington, Founder and Head Coach, Women in Sustainability Network and Flourish & Lead Community

Rhian is an executive coach and leadership development practitioner who supports women leading sustainability, climate and systems change. She runs group programmes and one-to-one coaching for women in mid-career to senior roles who carry a lot of responsibility, often without the formal authority that should come with it.

She founded the Women in Sustainability Network in 2014, and its community now has a new home in Flourish & Lead, an external development programme for women who want to lead with impact, whether or not sustainability is in their job title. Her approach draws on regenerative leadership, systems thinking and learning in and from nature. She is a Mighty Heart® trainer and a certified C-Me Profile® facilitator, and brings embodied practice and neuroscience into her work.

• Why Rhian Sherrington created the Women in Sustainability Network after finding traditional business networking “pretty” salesy and affected by misogyny 02:12.
• How the network grew from a Bristol gathering attended by more than 80 people into an international community with online membership 02:55.
• What makes networking feel safe, purposeful and less overwhelming, including the importance of facilitation, group dynamics and psychological safety 05:51.
• The different layers of connection across the Women in Sustainability Network, including its LinkedIn group of more than 17,000 women and mailing list of around 3,500 people 07:26.
• Why women in sustainability can be present in the room yet still struggle to be heard or influence decisions 09:50.
• The career impact of unequal access to stretch assignments, senior roles and professional opportunities 11:36.
• The launch of Flourish and Lead Community, with pathways focused on confidence and voice, influence in complex systems, and regenerative leadership 15:18.
• How nature imagery, seasonal cycles and the lunar cycle will shape the Flourish and Lead community experience 18:14.
• What the Mighty Heart programme brings to sustainability professionals, including deep listening, conflict resolution, presence and working with the inner critic 23:17.
• Why engaging with grief, anxiety and difficult emotions takes courage, but can change how people show up in the world 26:43.
• A practical exercise for identifying and renegotiating the relationship with the inner critic 30:21.
• The value of slowing down, listening more intentionally and creating an environment where people feel safe to speak 35:49.
• Emma Burlow’s takeaway about making deliberate time for reflection and creating “a clearing” rather than expecting inner work to happen by itself 38:21.

Resources

• Women in Sustainability Network: wimsustainability.net
• Flourish and Lead Community: flourishandlead.academy
• Networking with Purpose guide, available through the Women in Sustainability Network website 06:53

Connect with Rhian on LinkedIn

Join me in the Flourish and Lead Community

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Emma Burlow | LinkedIn

Not Sustainable

When did climate change become awkward to talk about? This episode explores the gap between what people think others believe and what people actually support, arguing that silence can make climate action seem more divisive than it is.

The episode is a spin on the famous Transport for London prompt: see it, say it, sorted.

In this episode

• Reflections from the Blue Earth Summit, including an unexpected conference sauna 00:26
• Why words like “polarised” and “divisive” have entered the climate conversation 01:53
• The gap between public concern about climate change and the noisy minority opposing action 04:07
• Why net zero isn’t a purely political or “green” issue 05:02
• How green hushing and cautious corporate messaging create a “sea of sameness” 07:57
• Why employees take cues from what leaders do and don’t say 09:03
• The responsibility of sustainability professionals to challenge silence around climate change 10:39
• Moving from “Do I have permission?” to “It’s my responsibility” 11:31
• Why stories and conversations may be more effective than repeatedly building the business case 12:11
• A practical exercise for revealing how much support for climate action exists in a room 15:09
• How sharing knowledge can help people feel informed, confident and empowered 19:38

Key takeaway

Most people care about clean air, nature, food prices and their children’s futures, but many have never been asked. When sustainability professionals spot the silence, start the conversation and share compelling stories, climate action becomes easier to discuss.

“It’s only as divisive as our silence allows it to be.” 21:14Conversation prompts

• Where has climate change disappeared from conversations in your organisation?
• Are people mistaking loud opposition for widespread disagreement?
• What story could you share instead of another target, KPI or statistic?
• What would help colleagues feel safer and more confident talking about climate change?

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Not Sustainable

In this episode, Emma Burlow talks with Liv Cropper, transformational coach and host of the podcast Rooted: The Human Side of Sustainability Leadership.

Liv Cropper shares how she moved from 25 years in financial services into coaching sustainability leaders, why she nearly quit a postgraduate sustainability course, and what happens when sustainability work becomes too closely tied to your identity.

In this episode

• Moving into sustainability without a traditional science or environmental background
• Why transferable skills such as stakeholder management and problem-solving matter
• The pressure to collect qualifications and prove your expertise
• How perfectionism, people-pleasing and overwork can shape a sustainability career
• The emotional cost of being placed on a “sustainability pedestal”
• Climate purism, personal choices and the pressure to “walk the talk”
• Why disillusionment can follow when your whole identity is invested in work that cannot be solved by one person
• How coaching can help sustainability leaders reconnect with their values, strengths and identity outside work
• Finding practical, enjoyable and affordable ways to live your values

Key moments

• Liv Cropper explains her transition from financial services into coaching after burnout, bereavement and redundancy at 01:25.
• Her sustainability career covered operational emissions, Scope 1 and Scope 2, then Scope 3, financed emissions, policy and target-setting at 03:41.
• Liv Cropper describes entering sustainability as a generalist rather than a science specialist at 05:18.
• She talks about nearly giving up during her postgraduate certificate in Sustainable Business at 10:27.
• The idea behind Rooted, focusing on “the human side of sustainability leadership,” comes up at 13:24.
• Liv Cropper explains why looking inward is difficult, slow work rather than a quick fix at 15:09.
• The conversation turns to perfectionism, people-pleasing and overwork at 17:48.
• Liv Cropper describes how sustainability work can intensify existing patterns of overwork when it adds a powerful sense of purpose at 19:23.
• The pressure to be a perfect sustainability role model, including around travel, comes into focus at 24:10.
• Liv Cropper explains how losing hope can become a turning point in disillusionment at 36:06.
• Coaching may reveal that the problem isn’t the sustainability profession itself, but the beliefs and patterns someone brings to their work at 37:38.
• The episode closes with a reminder to find sustainability choices that feel possible, enjoyable and affordable at 41:59.

Find out more

• Liv Cropper
• Search for Rooted Liv Cropper to find the podcast.

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Not Sustainable

The sustainability sector is facing a slowdown, pushback, and political reframing. In this episode, Emma Burlow explains how to stay relevant, find work, and avoid burning out when sustainability knowledge alone no longer sets you apart.

In this episode

• Why some sustainability work is being sidelined, rebadged, or called something else 02:59
• Why narrowing your niche can lead to more work than presenting yourself as a generalist 04:29
• The transferable skills that now matter alongside sustainability expertise 05:57
• Why “passion” won’t win you work, and what clients actually need 09:40
• How procurement, risk, and other existing skills can become your sustainability advantage 11:47
• Why stabilising your workload and energy matters when the sector feels uncertain 13:10
• The three pots to protect: profession, obsession, and decompression 14:14

Key takeaways

• Niche down around something people need and are willing to pay for.
• Build skills in communication, relationship development, analysis, problem-solving, resilience, risk, and leadership for change.
• Use your existing professional strengths. “Every job’s a climate job.”
• Don’t let sustainability become your entire identity or your only source of energy.
• Make room for genuine decompression. Reading another climate book doesn’t count.

“You need to be shit hot at your job.” 10:33“We are no good to our sector exhausted.” 13:22

Not Sustainable

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Not Sustainable

Emma Burlow talks with Sarah Mukherjee, CEO of the Institute of Sustainability and Environmental Professionals, about the pressures facing sustainability professionals, the business case for climate resilience, AI, public engagement, optimism, and why failure is part of progress.

In this episode

• Why professional standards matter in sustainability, and how ISEP evolved from IEMA 01:10
• How ISEP supports more than 21,000 members across over 120 countries 05:43
• What the latest State of the Profession report reveals about political headwinds, resilience, and funding 08:29
• Why businesses are reframing sustainability as resilience, risk management, and business continuity 08:40
• The insurance and finance implications of weak climate adaptation plans 11:19
• Sarah Mukherjee’s advice: “Plan for 2, stress test for 4” degrees of warming 14:16
• How sustainability professionals can bring climate risk into boardroom conversations 16:53
• Why blaming and shaming people over flying can alienate the audiences sustainability needs to reach 19:40
• Focusing on material emissions and savings instead of treating every intervention as equal 25:51
• The opportunities and risks of AI for sustainability professionals 29:18
• Why AI-generated work still requires professional judgement, accountability, and human oversight 30:33
• The case for optimism, even when progress feels slower than the challenge 35:34
• Why sustainability professionals need permission to experiment, fail, learn, and try again 41:38

Key quotes“Plan for 2, stress test for 4.”Sarah Mukherjee explains how organisations can test whether their business models remain viable under more severe climate conditions 14:16.“If you save carbon, if you save inputs, it’s going to save money.”Sarah Mukherjee makes the case for connecting decarbonisation with resource efficiency and business savings 26:13.“The way of losing it is to give up.”Sarah Mukherjee reflects on the importance of persistence in sustainability work 38:12.“The most important thing you can do is fail and then recover.”Sarah Mukherjee discusses resilience, career setbacks, and the role of failure in professional development 42:30.Listen for

Emma Burlow and Sarah Mukherjee challenge narrow sustainability messaging and argue for a more practical focus on resilience, business continuity, material emissions, financial risk, and solutions that people can realistically adopt 24:25.

Sarah Mukherjee MBE | LinkedIn

ISEP - Institute of Sustainability and Environmental Professionals

State of the Profession - ISEP

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Not Sustainable

Emma Burlow marks 100 episodes of Straight Talking Sustainability by reflecting on why she started the podcast, what has surprised her, and where the show goes next.

In this episode

• Why a podcast felt more achievable than writing a book after nearly 30 years in sustainability 03:07
• The need for more female voices in sustainability podcasting 03:59
• How the podcast helps Emma Burlow share experience, connect with others, and create more impact 05:06
• Reaching 12,000 downloads, with an average of 128 downloads a week 01:57
• The importance of process, even for people who prefer to wing it 08:40
• Why podcasting is a “dark art” and why authenticity matters more than polished production 09:30
• The slow growth of podcast numbers and the danger of fixating on them 11:15
• Creating conversations that feel more like the valuable, informal discussions after a conference 12:29
• A sharper focus on practical questions, useful experiences, and getting “to the nub of the issue” 13:29
• Plans for more book reviews, a resource Padlet, and video episodes 15:47

Episodes recommended

• The 52 Sustainability Hacks series, including spring, summer, autumn, and winter editions 17:42
• Getting Past “Yes in Principle” 18:41
• Is Climate Anxiety Actually Healthy? 19:07
• Early episodes on working in communities and sustainability leadership 18:18

Key quote“Winging it is great until it isn’t great.” 08:54

Emma invites listeners to share feedback, suggest future topics and books, and recommend the podcast to a friend or colleague. 19:52

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Not Sustainable

Emma Burlow talks with Jessica Riches, independent filmmaker and existential crisis communication strategist, about using sex, entertainment, humour, and trusted creators to make climate communication cut through.

In this episode

• Why climate communicators need to “jump off the cliff of the norm” rather than take small steps, as Jessica Riches explains at 02:57.
• The three reasons people shut down when confronted with existential risks: unfamiliar unknowns, exponential risk, and the feeling that they have no agency 06:42.
• How parasocial relationships and trusted voices can communicate complex ideas more effectively than distant institutions or experts 09:29.
• Why Jessica Riches turned to OnlyFans as a space for reaching audiences who are often overlooked by climate campaigns 14:51.
• The thinking behind Headline Newds, a campaign delivering climate news through adult-content creators 24:24.
• How the project worked with creators as co-creators rather than handing them a rigid communications brief 23:38.
• Why facts alone haven’t shifted public understanding of climate change, and why the messenger matters as much as the message 29:56.
• The campaign’s reach, including hundreds of thousands of views and strong levels of shares and saves despite widespread shadow banning 32:28.
• Why climate communicators should stop treating people as corporate audiences and start recognising them as humans with existing interests, relationships, and communities 44:55.
• Jessica Riches’ advice to take bigger creative risks, challenge conventional impact metrics, and consider a “little mini revolution” 45:48.

Memorable moments

“Better facts are not going to make this better.” Jessica Riches argues that climate communication has focused too heavily on accuracy, while overlooking story, trust, and cultural relevance at 30:00.

Jessica Riches describes Headline Newds as a way to combine climate facts with “a few puns and some sexual innuendo” while reaching communities that climate campaigns rarely prioritise 43:15.

The central challenge for sustainability professionals: being boring is rarely safer than being unexpected, especially when the goal is to reach people beyond the usual sustainability audience 45:07.

Content warning

This episode includes sexual content, strong language, discussions of pornography and sex work, and references to climate-related death and societal collapse.

Jessica Riches | LinkedIn

Jessica Riches (@notpeterthiel_) • Instagram photos and videos

Jessica Riches – Jessica Riches is the world's first existential crisis comms strategist – working in climate change and AI risk

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Not Sustainable

The conversation focused on the implications of the UNEP report Limiting Overshoot, which warns that global warming could reach 1.8°C even under the best-case pathway, with current policies potentially leading to 2.6°C.

The discussion explored whether sustainability professionals should replace the 1.5°C message with 1.8°C, or stay focused on the existing target. The answer depends on the audience. People who already understand the science may be ready to discuss overshoot in more depth. For others, introducing another number could create confusion, weaken existing targets, or encourage a “what’s the point?” response.

Key takeaways

• The UNEP report says overshoot is unavoidable, but warming can still be brought back down through a “peak and decline” strategy.
• Current policies could lead to 2.6°C of warming 04:18.
• Every fraction of a degree above 1.5°C increases the risks 04:40.
• The required actions include immediate emissions cuts, methane reductions, a rapid transition to net zero, carbon dioxide removal, and adaptation 05:15.
• Don’t add complexity before people understand the basics of climate change, urgency, and agency 07:21.
• If an organisation already has a 1.5°C target, introducing 1.8°C without context could muddy the waters 10:00.
• Sustainability messaging should reflect the audience’s level of awareness and readiness 10:52.
• If the basics aren’t in place, focus on carbon literacy training, lunch and learns, e-learning supported by real engagement, or showing the National Emergency Briefing 14:08.
• If the basics are in place, identify what’s preventing faster emissions reductions, stronger advocacy, supply-chain transformation, or industry leadership 15:46.
• Overwhelm can be reduced by finding the “nugget of truth,” breaking the issue down, and acting on what’s achievable 12:19.
• Supporting sustainability teams matters, even when sustainability isn’t part of the job title 13:43.

Ask honestly:

• Do the climate basics exist across the organisation?
• Is the current target driving real progress?
• What’s stopping faster and bigger carbon reductions?
• Is there a rock in the way that needs to be identified and removed?

The episode’s central message is clear: 1.8°C is a warning, not a reason to stop. There’s still a great deal to do 18:47.

Yes, we’re heading towards 1.8 degrees of warming, but there’s still a damn lot we can do in the meantime. Don’t stay in overwhelm. Get the basics in place, support each other, and take action.

Limiting Overshoot UNEP Report

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Not Sustainable

This episode explores how businesses can bridge the gap between setting net zero targets and actually achieving them, moving from data collection to actionable strategies. Emma Burlow is joined by Louise Rehbinder, who delves into the Exponential Roadmap Initiative’s Five Pillars framework and its essential role in forming resilient, actionable net zero strategies for businesses of all sizes.

The Target-Action Gap:

• Many companies have ambitious net zero goals, but employees are often unclear on how to achieve them. This episode discusses concrete ways to close that gap (Emma Burlow 00:01:19).

Intro to Exponential Roadmap Initiative:

• Louise Rehbinder explains the organization’s mission, straddling think-tank and consultancy, and how they support corporates with up-to-date climate action guidance (Louise Rehbinder 00:02:16).

The Five Pillars Explained:

The Exponential Business Playbook is structured around five key pillars:

1. Reducing a company’s own emissions (Scope 1 and 2)
2. Value chain emissions (Scope 3: upstream, downstream, suppliers, customers, products)
3. Providing solutions that replace high-emission practices
4. Enabling mechanisms: finances and investment
5. Policy and social narrative for systemic change

(Louise Rehbinder 00:07:59 – 00:10:22)

Applicability to Small Businesses:

• The playbook isn’t just for big corporates; it is designed to be accessible, with free tools like SME Climate Hub for smaller organizations (Louise Rehbinder 00:04:42).

Moving Beyond Data Collection:

• The importance of balancing effort between getting accurate carbon accounting and actually implementing actions. Companies can make significant progress with available data without waiting for perfection (Louise Rehbinder 00:19:18).

Strategic vs. Operational Approaches:

• How the playbook helps elevate climate action from operational and compliance-driven steps to integral parts of business strategy (Louise Rehbinder 00:33:18; Emma Burlow 00:33:25).

Practical Examples & Industry Leadership:

• Some members use the playbook as the basis for company-wide strategy, particularly advanced IT, finance, or sustainability-led firms. Case studies include companies enabling broader systemic change, such as Stegra (Green Steel) and Unilever’s policy engagement (Louise Rehbinder 00:34:43–00:37:05).

Memorable Quotes

• “Knowing your numbers does not reduce your emissions. …You need to also actually do the activities.” – Louise Rehbinder 00:17:52
• “Climate is just one aspect that comes into play—something that will happen eventually. And it is about competitiveness for the companies.” – Louise Rehbinder 00:32:38

Resources Mentioned

• Exponential Business Playbook
• SME Climate Hub

Takeaways

• The Five Pillars approach helps businesses systematically move from targets to tangible climate action.
• Action and influence (Pillars 3, 4, and 5) are as crucial as accurate reporting (Pillars 1 and 2).
• Tools and frameworks are freely available and can serve as “handholders” for sustainability teams at any stage.
• Download the Exponential Roadmap Playbook: Exponential Roadmap Website
• Connect with Louise Rebinder via LinkedIn or through the Roadmap Initiative.
• More about the podcast and previous episodes: lighthouse-sustainability.co.uk

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Not Sustainable

Emma returns post-surgery with updates on Straight Talking Sustainability (STS) and Lighthouse Sustainability. She addresses current sustainability fatigue and the importance of moving beyond passive "lurking" online to taking action. The episode previews upcoming guests, reflects on the impact of community support and trainer development at Lighthouse, and shares ways listeners can get involved and stay motivated.

Sustainability Fatigue & The Need for Action

• Many feel despair and fatigue about climate discourse right now (01:15).
• Emma Berlow calls out the issue of “lurking” on social media instead of participating and emphasizes that wars are not won by lurking (04:22).
• Upcoming episodes will tackle climate denial and focus on building resilience and collective action (03:05, 03:28).

Exciting Guest Line-Up

• Louise Rehbinder (COO, Exponential Roadmap Initiative) to discuss the revised 5 Pillars model (episode 68 referenced) (05:28).
• Sarah Mukherjee (CEO, ISEP, formerly IEMA) shares results from the State of the Environment Survey and job market trends (06:38).
• Jo Alexander, who transitioned from fossil fuels to sustainability (07:11).
• Rob Hopkins to discuss his book How to Fall in Love with the Future and potential for a podcast book list (08:05).
• Jessica Riches, aka the OnlyFans climate change creator, on reaching new audiences with climate messaging (08:52).

Stay tuned for the 100th episode and more inspiring guest conversations!

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Not Sustainable