Straight Talking Sustainability

In this insightful and energising episode of Straight Talking Sustainability, host Emma Burlow sits down with Crista Buznea, Head of Sustainability Marketing at Ecologi, to explore how effective communication can transform sustainability from a worthy burden into an engaging, dopamine-filled journey that drives real business action.

With a background spanning tourism marketing at Heathrow and TUI before transitioning into sustainability leadership, Crista brings unique perspective on what actually works when trying to bring sustainability to the masses through authentic storytelling, strategic listening, and remarkably, the occasional use of negative messaging.

Crista's career transformation began during travels through Thailand and Cambodia, where she witnessed the dark side of tourism that her university degree had glamorised: child exploitation, fake orphanages, environmental pollution, and animal welfare issues.

This awakening led her back to university for another degree, then into roles at Heathrow and TUI where she applied marketing skills to sustainability challenges, successfully integrating sustainability into every in-flight entertainment magazine, on-screen content, in travel agencies, and through video campaigns.

Her mission has always been bringing sustainability to the masses, making it accessible rather than corporate, engaging rather than jargon-filled.

When the pandemic eliminated tourism jobs including Crista's, she showed up on LinkedIn every day telling sustainability stories, filming content, and building consistency that ultimately attracted Ecology.

They offered her a platform doing sustainability "very differently to anything I'd ever seen," using gamification and creating what Crista describes as "an environment full of dopamine" that makes sustainability genuinely engaging.

This philosophy challenges the traditional worthy, anxiety-inducing, difficult journey narrative that dominates much sustainability communication, suggesting instead that positive energy and accessible entry points drive far more participation than guilt and complexity.

The conversation centres on Ecologi's latest campaign, "Sustainability Shouldn't Be Unsustainable," which emerged from Crista's social listening at climate conferences and events.

Working with over 24,000 businesses gave her extensive exposure to sustainability leaders' challenges, and she consistently heard paradoxical demands: integrate sustainability on the ground but also be a strategic thinker, speak up but not too loud, don't be afraid of greenwashing but don't be green-hushed either.

The campaign mirrors these tensions back to the industry, acknowledging that sustainability professionals are caught between business objectives and regulatory pressure, between optimistic targets and harsh reality, between spreadsheets and storytelling.

Crista reveals fascinating insights from Ecologi's marketing experiments testing positive versus negative messaging, carrot versus stick approaches. Their weekly "Good News" series generates 20% of weekly engagement, proving positive content works.

However, when testing the same message framed as a barrier versus a motivation, barriers (the stick, the negative framing) perform marginally better.

This counterintuitive finding challenges the sustainability sector's growing emphasis on positivity-only approaches, suggesting that balanced communication acknowledging both challenges and opportunities resonates more authentically than relentless optimism or doom-focused messaging.

The episode explores critical sustainability marketing challenges including AI-generated content that lacks authenticity (easily spotted through overuse of dashes, lists of three, and algorithmic patterns), green-hushing driven by Western political changes and business caution, and the constant need to simplify jargon (carbon neutrality, net zero, beyond value chain mitigation) into accessible language that creates "light bulb moments" for business audiences.

Crista emphasises that great sustainability leaders navigate paradoxes daily, finding middle ground between competing tensions rather than choosing one extreme.

Emma and Crista discuss the toolkit for engaging any business through understanding their barriers and motivations. Barriers include financial constraints, time scarcity, lack of internal knowledge, and doubt about business returns.

Motivations include competitive advantage, brand reputation, customer attraction, and ability to hire and retain quality staff. Ecologi's annual Climate Commitment Survey consistently shows these as top drivers, with case studies like Co-op demonstrating customer and colleague engagement success, and University of Derby's net zero business school building showcasing student-driven demand for sustainability leadership.

The conversation addresses the criticism of carbon offsetting, with Crista explaining Ecology's evolution from B2C to B2B, from focusing solely on offsets to helping businesses calculate footprints, reduce emissions (Ecologi reduced their own by 20% year-on-year), and submit Science Based Targets.

She uses a powerful university analogy: you wouldn't approach a first-year student on day one demanding to see their PhD, yet sustainability communications often expect businesses to jump immediately to advanced action.

Starting with accessible steps like tree planting creates captive audiences for deeper education about the difference between carbon neutrality (passive offsetting) and net zero (requiring 90% emissions reduction).

Crista shares inspiring transformation stories from businesses like PropellerNet, Krystal Hosting, and Jump Creative who started with simple tree planting in 2020 and five years later are B Corps with solar panels, decarbonised operations, and comprehensive sustainability strategies.

This journey model proves that accessible entry points do not trap businesses in superficial action; rather, they create stepping stones towards more ambitious work. The criticism that offsetting prevents "real" action ignores the reality that many businesses need tangible, understandable starting points before they can grasp complex reduction strategies.

The episode tackles the role of AI in sustainability communications, with Crista acknowledging she uses AI multiple times daily as an efficiency tool whilst warning against losing humanity and authenticity.

AI cannot read body language, hold space for complex emotions, or tailor conversations word-by-word based on what it absorbs from the other person. The sales team at Ecology no longer uses presentation decks, instead spending the first 10-20 minutes of meetings simply listening to potential customers' problems, then tailoring responses to those specific challenges rather than delivering generic pitches.

Emma explores the importance of social listening and reading the room, noting that what works in one corporate culture may fail in another, what resonated in the 1990s may not work today, and sustainability professionals need skills to pivot instantly between firing on all cylinders with mature clients and approaching defensive, cautious clients with completely different messaging.

This adaptability, combined with genuine curiosity about motivations and barriers, separates effective sustainability engagement from frustrated professionals wondering why their excellent case studies keep falling flat.

The conversation concludes with Crista's mentoring advice that applies to both young professionals and business leaders: consistency over intensity. Rather than intense January enthusiasm that fades by February (the "gym effect"), sustainable progress requires showing up daily, taking small steps, and building momentum through regular action rather than sporadic bursts.

Crista's own career exemplifies this, as daily LinkedIn storytelling during the pandemic created the visibility that led to Ecologi discovering her. For businesses, this means avoiding the trap of "sustainability week" or "sustainability month" in favour of recognising that every day is sustainability day.

In this sustainability marketing and communication strategy episode, you'll discover:

1. Why creating "an environment full of dopamine" drives more sustainability engagement than guilt and anxiety
2. How Ecology's "Sustainability Shouldn't Be Unsustainable" campaign mirrors paradoxes back to the industry
3. The surprising finding that negative messaging (barriers/sticks) performs marginally better than positive messaging (carrots)
4. Why balanced communication acknowledging both challenges and opportunities resonates most authentically
5. How to spot AI-generated sustainability content (overuse of dashes, lists of three, algorithmic patterns)
6. The toolkit of barriers and motivations that enables engagement with any business regardless of maturity
7. Why starting with accessible entry points (tree planting, offsetting) creates stepping stones to ambitious action
8. How PropellerNet, Krystal Hosting, and Jump Creative evolved from tree planting to B Corp status in five years
9. The university analogy: why demanding PhD-level action from sustainability beginners kills momentum
10. Why consistency over intensity drives both personal career success and business sustainability transformation

Key Sustainability Marketing and Engagement Insights:

(03:58) The dopamine difference: "It wasn't corporate at all. It was engaging. It was using gamification. It was genuinely an environment full of dopamine, where I was like, wow, this is if this is how we start promoting sustainability, I think it will really catch fire."

(06:29) Social listening in action: "I've been going to a lot of climate events and conferences... I'm always trying to activate my social listening and truly understand what sustainability leaders are feeling because then I can take that away and know how to engage them more."

(07:22) The paradox campaign: "We're being told integrate sustainability on the ground, but also be a great strategic thinker... speak up, but not too loud... don't be afraid of greenwashing, but don't be green-hushed as well."

(11:06) Simplification as marketing: "We have so much jargon... It's really, really important to simplify that. And that's one of the things that I really love as a marketer is the moments where I have those clicks and I can see the light bulb."

(14:18) The engagement toolkit: "Barriers and motivations are essentially the carrots and the sticks. And somewhere within that, you will always find the tool that you can use to engage any business. It's just about understanding and knowing the toolkit."

(17:30) AI as tool not replacement: "I use AI every single day, multiple times a day... It's a very helpful tool to structure my thoughts... But an AI can't hold space. It's only a human that has the ability to hold space and navigate and be able to know how to tailor based on almost word by word."

(19:25) Authenticity warning: "AI uses certain things that are quite obvious. Em dashes, lists of three... Just make sure that once you have the outline, you inject personality, you bring it back to some authenticity."

(22:42) The negative versus positive test: "We were talking about barriers, triggers, and motivations, the same message as a barrier versus a motivation, barriers perform better. So the negative does perform slightly better... People respond a lot better to the stick, sadly, rather than the carrot."

(33:07) The university analogy: "You wouldn't go to a first year university student on their first day and say, show me your PhD, you're not doing good enough work... You're saying, hey, you are on a journey, you're learning, come back tomorrow."

(37:14) Timing and urgency: "1.5 degrees back in 2015... that's no longer an achievable target. We're talking way above that. So actually, Cristiana Figueres recently said... we need to throw everything. We need to throw the kitchen sink at it."

Connect With Crista

Crista's LinkedIn

Ecologi's website

Link to Ecologi's new brand campaign, Sustainability Shouldn't be Unsustainable https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5V0_tvQ3QAI

Connect With Emma

Website

Email

Emma Burlow - LinkedIn

Book an enquiry call with Emma

https://calendly.com/emma-lighthouse/20min

In this practical and uplifting solo episode of Straight Talking Sustainability, host Emma Burlow kicks off 2026 with a powerful reframe for sustainability professionals exhausted by negativity, what-aboutism, and constant battles over every small change.

Drawing on groundbreaking research published in Nature Food, Emma demonstrates how clever behind-the-scenes switches can deliver massive carbon reductions (30% in one study) without guilt, arguments, or removing anyone's choices. This episode is essential listening for anyone tired of making sustainability harder than it needs to be.

Emma introduces research by Flynn et al. titled "Dish swap across a weekly menu can deliver health and sustainability gains" that proves something revolutionary: you do not need to start with the hardest stuff, fight people, or remove choice to achieve meaningful carbon reductions.

The researchers worked with a canteen serving 15 dishes across a five-day week, surveying diners' preferences and identifying where high-carbon meat dishes competed with lower-carbon vegetarian options. The problem was simple: when people's favourite vegetarian meal appeared on the same day as their favourite meat dish, they always chose the meat, meaning the vegetarian option never got selected.

The solution was brilliantly simple: reshuffle the menu. Using what they called an optimisation model, the researchers rearranged dishes so high-preference vegetarian meals no longer competed with high-preference meat meals. No recipes changed. No meat-free Mondays. No lectures. No signs. Just a smarter order.

The results were extraordinary: when the optimised menu rolled out, carbon footprint of meal choices dropped 30%, saturated fat dropped 6%, and crucially, no one complained or even noticed. This is what Emma calls "sustainability by stealth" or "Trojan mouse" approaches that deliver real impact without the exhausting battles.

Emma explains why this matters profoundly for sustainability professionals drowning in negativity. Whenever conversations begin about reducing meat consumption or increasing plant-based canteen options, polar reactions emerge: accusations of "banning meat," claims of being a "Scrooge" after the consumerism-filled festive season, or walls of what-aboutism (what about wind turbine blades, range anxiety, plastic recycling rates).

This negativity is not just draining; it actively kills momentum, derails conversations, and leaves sustainability teams fighting uphill battles daily whilst making minimal progress.

The episode tackles why negativity is so prevalent in climate and sustainability conversations, particularly around politically sensitive topics like food, renewable energy, and flying.

Emma identifies three common negative patterns: what-aboutism (endless objections ignoring any reasons something might work), accusations that sustainability means "banning everything" or "penalising us," and the exhausting cycle of needing to prove your case with facts whilst the other side throws up barriers. This approach misses the point entirely and more critically, stops all forward momentum.

Emma introduces the concept that people need to hear things seven times before they will buy them (a classic marketing principle). If those seven exposures are negative, negative, negative, the battle becomes exponentially harder.

The solution is not more facts, bigger business cases, or harder fights. The solution is reframing towards can-dos, easy wins, and low-friction changes that build momentum rather than requiring martyrdom. As Emma puts it: "Momentum beats martyrdom. We don't all have to be martyrs. We don't have to fight it all every day of the week."

The dish swap research proves something powerful about human behaviour and organisational change. Once people experience success (seeing that changes worked without causing pain), they become far more receptive to the next thing and the next thing. You get much less fight when you have demonstrated friction-free wins.

This builds the momentum that sustainability transformations desperately need but rarely achieve when every change becomes a battlefield requiring enormous business cases and stakeholder management.

Emma provides practical guidance for anyone running schools, workplaces, hospitals, hotels, or events where food service operates. Start with the can-dos, the easy wins, the low-friction changes. Make those rock solid (you are not going back on them), then build.

Emma references the Carbon Literacy Project principle of "meeting people where they are," urging listeners to find something to agree on, no matter how tiny. All the disagreement and negativity gets us nowhere; small agreements, shared values, and micro-actions create the foundation for larger transformations.

The episode offers specific strategies for handling the next wall of can't-dos or what-aboutisms. Recognise it as distraction filling a gap. Keep talking. Ask why (referencing the Five Whys episode from early in the podcast).

Avoid using the word "sustainability" if that helps with your stealth approach (there is another episode on this topic). Find out what people value, meet them where they are, and agree on something. A tiny takeaway, an action, a shared value, or an agreement will get you more traction than a thousand arguments.

Emma issues a challenge for the first weeks of 2026: What can we agree on? No matter how small. This becomes your task. Convert conversations from can't-dos to can-dos. Find the micro-agreement. Build from there.

She explicitly asks listeners to report back on "the most micro conversation that you have converted from a can't do to a can do," emphasising that these small wins are worth celebrating and sharing because they demonstrate what actually works in sustainability culture change.

The episode concludes with Emma's call to "make life a little bit easier" by starting with can-dos, building momentum, and seeing what happens. She acknowledges fighting the can't-do mindset for years herself, recognising it creates "a very angry and anxious and convobulated person."

The alternative is choosing cleverness over constant combat, stealth over confrontation, and progress over perfection. Small changes add up. Friction removal creates momentum. And momentum, not martyrdom, drives transformation.

In this behaviour change and sustainability strategy episode, you'll discover:

1. How menu reshuffling delivered 30% carbon reduction and 6% saturated fat reduction without anyone noticing
2. Why the dish swap research proves you do not need to remove choice to drive behaviour change
3. The three common negativity patterns killing sustainability momentum (what-aboutism, ban accusations, endless proof requirements)
4. Why "people need to hear things seven times" means negative exposure creates exponential barriers
5. How experiencing friction-free success makes people receptive to subsequent changes
6. The power of "sustainability by stealth" and "Trojan mouse" approaches in hostile environments
7. Why finding micro-agreements creates more traction than a thousand arguments
8. How to reframe from can't-do to can-do in the most resistant conversations
9. The critical difference between momentum (sustainable progress) and martyrdom (burnout pathway)
10. Practical strategies for schools, workplaces, hospitals, hotels, and events to start with easy wins

Key Can-Do Mindset and Behaviour Change Insights:

(02:30) The negativity problem: "People need to hear things seven times before they'll buy them. So what if they're hearing negative, negative, negative... Negativity stops momentum dead."

(06:57) The brilliant simplicity: "They surveyed 15 dishes on a five day week, and they looked at where the dishes were potentially competing with each other... They used an optimisation model to reshuffle the menu into a smarter order."

(09:01) The dream results: "The carbon footprint overall of their meal choices dropped by 30%. Saturated fat also dropped by six percent. No one complained. No one noticed. Trojan mouse, sustainability by stealth."

(09:56) Why it matters: "You don't need to start with the hardest stuff... You don't need to fight people, you don't need to remove choice from people. You can make really meaningful carbon reductions by just focusing on small, achievable, often invisible, friction-free switches."

(11:15) Momentum beats martyrdom: "Once people experience success, they see that it worked, it didn't cause them any pain, they're on board... You've got much less fight for the next thing. Momentum beats martyrdom."

(12:15) Start with can-dos: "Start with the can-dos, the easy wins, the low friction, and then start to build... Start with the things you can do. Make those rock solid. You're not going back on them, but start with the smallest thing you can do."

(13:00) Meet them where they are: "Find something to agree on. All this disagreement and negativity is getting us nowhere. Find something teeny tiny, meet them where they are... Those small changes add up and then you get momentum because you've removed the friction."

(13:15) Handle what-aboutism: "The next time you walk into a wall of what-aboutisms, it's just distraction. That's all it is... Let's fill the gap with what we can do."

(13:40) The micro-agreement task: "What can we agree on? No matter how small. A tiny takeaway, an action, a shared value, an agreement will get you more traction than a thousand arguments."

(13:59) Personal transformation: "I fought this for years and it makes you a very angry and anxious person. So let's make life a little bit easier. Start with the can-dos, build momentum and see what happens."

2026 Challenge: What is the most micro conversation you can convert from a can't-do to a can-do? Find one tiny agreement this week. Report back. Share your friction-free wins. Build momentum, not martyrdom.

Remember: a tiny takeaway, an action, a shared value, or an agreement will get you more traction than a thousand arguments. Start with the can-dos, make them rock solid, and watch what happens when you remove the friction that has been exhausting you for years.

Episode Research and Links:

1. Simon Clark on Instagram
2. Nudge By Richard H Thaler
3. Perfect Storm 1: 6 Elements & 5 Whys
4. Is Sustainability Really a Sacrifice?
5. Climate Change Is Everywhere: Why Sustainability Is Closer Than You Think
6. Red Flag Words and Sustainability Conversations: The Trojan Mouse Strategy

Connect With Emma

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Email

Emma Burlow - LinkedIn

Book an enquiry call with Emma

https://calendly.com/emma-lighthouse/20min

In this powerful and eye-opening episode of Straight Talking Sustainability, host Emma Burlow sits down with Sian Cuffey-Young, founder of SAEL Environmental in Trinidad and Tobago, to explore the intersection of food waste, food security, and climate action in Caribbean island states.

With 20 years of experience in waste management and a mission statement that "waste is sexy," Sian brings infectious energy and unflinching honesty to one of the most overlooked sustainability challenges: the fact that our largest waste stream receives the least attention whilst people go hungry.

Sian's journey into food waste began with composting education, which she loved, but she deliberately avoided the broader food waste challenge for years. Everything changed when Trinidad and Tobago released waste characterisation study results showing food and organic waste had increased from 27% to 33% of the waste stream over a decade.

Under those results, a woman commented, "I wish I had some of that food to feed my family." That single statement crystallised Sian's mission.

As she explains, the Caribbean region can feed itself six times over according to the Food and Agriculture Organisation, yet food insecurity persists whilst good food is deliberately soiled with disinfectant and disposed of by supermarkets practicing "soil and dump" policies to avoid liability.

The conversation reveals the unique challenges of sustainability work in island states with limited land space, voluntary rather than mandatory waste separation, and funding heavily skewed towards plastic waste initiatives because "that's where the money is coming from."

Sian describes food and organic waste as sitting "quietly undiscovered in the corner" despite being the largest waste stream, receiving minimal attention compared to highly visible plastics pollution.

This funding imbalance forces social entrepreneurs like Sian to look outside the region for support, connect with international networks, and get creative with limited resources whilst addressing society's most fundamental need: feeding people.

Throughout the episode, Sian candidly discusses the reality of running a social enterprise in the environmental services sector, including experiencing her toughest financial year in a decade of operation.

She describes feeling "forgotten" as a small service-based business competing against larger companies for contracts, constantly applying for highly competitive grants where all Caribbean organisations compete for the same limited funding pool, and questioning whether she should switch from food waste back to plastics where money flows more freely.

Yet every time she prays and asks whether she is in the right space, the answer remains the same: "You need to stay here."

Emma and Sian explore the systemic barriers preventing progress, including the absence of Good Samaritan laws in most Caribbean islands (only the Bahamas and Barbados have them), the lack of food waste legislation making separation mandatory, companies hiding behind liability concerns rather than finding workarounds for food donation, and the political cycle of starting and stopping initiatives whenever governments change.

Sian's travels to China, the United States, and throughout the Caribbean provide perspective on what is possible, from smaller plates in Chinese hotels designed to reduce waste to comprehensive food waste reduction programmes in other regions, but returning home often brings deflation when implementation proves difficult.

The conversation takes an inspiring turn when Sian shares what sustains her through the hard years: her faith, her husband's unwavering support ("the biggest pom poms out of all the husbands in the world"), and wanting her children to see their mother pursue something she is passionate about even when it is hard.

Her philosophy of "don't take no for an answer" comes from years working in mining where she persisted in asking companies to store topsoil near rehabilitation sites rather than three metres down the road, gradually winning them over through patient, persistent education about doing things better.

Sian introduces her "Do Waste Good Food" programme, inspired by a local Trinidad saying: "Better belly burst than good food waste".

Whether in restaurants, at home, or in professional settings, ask "Why would you waste good food?" This simple question, repeated across society, can shift the mindset away from indulgence and gluttony towards recognition that wasting food whilst others go hungry is fundamentally wrong.

Looking ahead, Sian's vision includes securing food waste legislation in the Caribbean (either additions to existing laws or new policy), building connections with hotel associations to address the significant volumes from all-inclusive resorts using large buffets, and implementing strategies like smaller plates that she observed working effectively in China.

She emphasises the critical need for champions inside organisations who can call her name in rooms she is not in, saying "There's this girl on LinkedIn who's been talking about this stuff all the time, has anybody reached out to her?"

The episode concludes with Sian channelling one of her heroes, Barbadian Prime Minister Mia Mottley, whose unapologetic truth-telling about climate realities inspires Sian's approach to content creation.

She is not trying to cause controversy or intentionally raise conflict; she is simply stating facts with intention: people need to do better, they need to not waste good food. Her parting wisdom: "It's not always about doing things better, but sometimes we simply need to do better things."

In this Caribbean food waste and sustainability entrepreneurship episode, you'll discover:

1. Why food and organic waste is the largest waste stream but receives the least attention and funding
2. How the Caribbean region can feed itself six times over, yet food insecurity persists
3. The practice of "soil and dump", where supermarkets deliberately spoil good food before disposal
4. Why funding flows heavily to plastics initiatives, whilst food waste work struggles for resources
5. The critical connection between food waste and food security that national conversations ignore
6. How voluntary waste separation (versus mandatory) fundamentally changes behaviour change potential
7. The challenges of running environmental service businesses versus product-based companies
8. Why champions inside organisations who "call your name in rooms you're not in" are essential
9. The power of challenging people on food waste with one simple question: "Why would you waste good food?"
10. How smaller plates and intentional design reduce buffet waste in hospitality settings

Key Food Waste and Sustainability Insights:

(02:58) Choosing the hard path: "I chose food and organic waste... It sits quietly undiscovered in the corner. It's our largest waste stream, but it's the one that gets the least amount of attention."

(06:49) Following the funding: "There's a lot of focus on plastics... And for me, the reason why there is such a focus is because that's where the money is coming from. That's where the funders want to put their money."

(08:48) The moment of clarity: "I remember there was a lady who posted under the results that, I wish I had some of that food to feed my family. And then in that moment, if I was unclear, I became very, very clear."

(11:20) Soil and dump practice: "They take the good food, they soil it with some kind of disinfectant, bleach, whatever, make it inedible, and then dispose of it. Like, why? Why we do that? It boggles my mind."

(12:45) The missing connection: "The connection between food waste and food security, it's never made with the food security conversation, not ever... The region itself can feed itself six times over."

(22:53) Staying power sources: "My stick-to-itiveness is as a result of a couple of things. One, my faith. Two, my husband... And wanting my children to see their mom pursue something that she's passionate about even when it's hard."

(23:49) Financial reality: "Financially, this has been my toughest year. I have never been in this scenario in the 10 years, even when I just started."

(25:53) Feeling forgotten: "As a social entrepreneur, as somebody running a business that is also about solving an environmental challenge, I often feel like we are... feeling as though only when you have a big company... then you get the access to the resources."

(31:42) Learning through travel: "When I travel, I always remember that I'm a sponge when I travel, I absorb as much as I can... It reinvigorates me."

(36:48) Champions matter: "We always need people inside of their own organisations who can shed light on the work that we're doing... I'm so really thankful for the people who have called my name in rooms that I wasn't in."

(40:06) Don't take no: "Don't take no, don't take your first no for the answer. There is always a workaround. There's somebody else who has, who you can talk to who might have a better ear than you."

(42:24) Do Waste Good Food: "We have a local saying that says better belly burst than good food waste, which means better you eat all of the food than you waste good food, healthy food, nutritious food."

Connect With Sian

LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/sian-young-0675a342

Website: www.sielenvironmental.com

Instagram: www.instagram.com/sieltt

Mia Mottley This $1M brand runs on Wix

Connect With Emma

Website

Email

Emma Burlow - LinkedIn

Book an enquiry call with Emma

https://calendly.com/emma-lighthouse/20min

In this powerful year-end compilation episode of Straight Talking Sustainability, host Emma Burlow revisits the three solo episodes that resonated most strongly with listeners in 2025, addressing the thorniest challenges facing sustainability professionals today.

From navigating conversations with climate sceptics to avoiding the "evangelical trap" that alienates colleagues, to breaking free from the paralysis caused by knowing business-as-usual will not save us, these episodes tackle the psychological and practical barriers that prevent meaningful climate action.

After training over 800 people in carbon literacy and working in the sustainability sector for nearly 30 years, Emma knows that technical knowledge alone does not drive change. The episodes featured in this compilation reflect the real struggles sustainability professionals face daily: how to respond when confronted with climate denial, how to engage colleagues without appearing to recruit them for a cult, and how to take action when the magnitude of system change feels overwhelming and impossible.

Episode 22: How to Survive a Conversation with a Climate Denier emerged from Emma's own LinkedIn encounter with someone claiming Italy and Argentina were pulling out of the Paris Agreement (information found nowhere except "word on the street"). This episode provides five common denier arguments and five practical survival tips, emphasising that climate denial, whilst noisy, remains exceptionally rare.

Out of 800+ people Emma has trained, only one openly identified as a climate denier. The key insight: save your energy for the moveable middle rather than battling immovable objects, but know how to navigate these conversations when professionally trapped.

Episode 34: I'm Not Recruiting For A Cult tackles the uncomfortable moment when Emma was told by a senior management team member: "If you're going to convince us to change our habits, you're going to have to come up with some better evidence."

This episode dismantles the decades-old sustainability sector habit of trying to prove our point, recruit converts, and convince sceptics through ever-more-impressive graphs and data. Emma argues that leadership is not about convincing people to jump from A to Z, but about meeting them where they are, listening in the corners, and helping them identify what matters to them rather than drowning them in evidence about what should matter.

Episode 40: From Stuck to Starting: How to Move Forward with Your Sustainability Goals addresses the paralysis created by knowing that business-as-usual and incremental tweaks will not solve the climate crisis. Inspired by consultant Liz Gad's experience of consciously buying a refurbished phone only to have the company force-send an unwanted screen protector anyway, this episode explores the anxiety caused by working within systems we cannot individually change.

Emma provides practical frameworks for moving from "I can't" to "what can I do?", starting with micro-actions that build confidence without expecting anyone to achieve system transformation overnight.

Throughout this compilation, Emma's core philosophy emerges: sustainability professionals must stop positioning themselves as evangelical messengers recruiting converts, and instead become curious facilitators who help people connect their existing values to meaningful action.

The shift from convincing to listening, from recruiting to exploring, and from paralysis to micro-progress represents the practical psychology of change that technical sustainability training often overlooks.

These three episodes collectively address what Emma calls the "unwinnable issues" that drain energy and create burnout: the rare but anxiety-inducing prospect of climate denial confrontation, the counterproductive dynamic of appearing to recruit colleagues for an environmental cause, and the overwhelming sense that individual actions cannot possibly address systemic problems.

By reframing these challenges and providing concrete navigation strategies, Emma offers sustainability professionals a way through rather than around these barriers.

In this year-end compilation episode, you'll discover:

1. Why climate deniers, though noisy, represent only 1 in 800+ people Emma has trained
2. The five most common climate denier arguments (and why they're boringly predictable)
3. Five survival strategies from "get the hell out" to "throw the monkey to the room"
4. Why decades of trying to "prove the business case" has created evangelical sustainability professionals
5. How the question "if you're going to convince us..." reveals you've already lost the conversation
6. The critical shift from convincing people to helping them explore what they already care about
7. Why "listening in the corners" reveals more than 25 slides in three minutes ever could
8. How to navigate the paralysis of knowing business-as-usual will not save us
9. The "can't to can" reframing technique that unlocks action without expecting system transformation
10. Why micro-progress beats paralysed perfectionism every single time

Key Insights and Timestamps:

Episode 22: How to Survive a Conversation with a Climate Denier

(02:57) Rarity reality check: "Out of 800 people I have trained in carbon literacy, only one person has openly admitted on a course that he was a climate denier. One out of 800... They are noisy, but rare."

(05:24) The five predictable arguments: "Climate has always changed... The science is still up for debate... It's a hoax... It's going to bankrupt us... Scientists are just in it for the money."

(10:16) Survival tip one: "Don't go there. Walk away. Breathe, smile politely, walk away, change subject... We need energy to do the work that we do. It's precious."

(12:44) Throwing the monkey: "If you're caught in a situation and somebody feels the need to share their climate denial speech with you, give them the room... Use the room, your peers, to release their views."

(15:07) The two-path strategy: "Either you have an opportunity to have a conversation and you can find some common ground or use your gut feel and get the hell out."

Episode 34: I'm Not Recruiting For A Cult

(20:30) The evangelical trap: "For decades, the sustainability sector has been trying to prove its point. Let's face it. They might've called it business case... We've been trying to recruit to a course."

(22:50) Leadership versus convincing: "Convincing people is not a leadership quality. If you have to convince people, you've probably missed the bar somewhere."

(26:38) Stop trying to convince: "You are not recruiting for a cult... You are not the font of all knowledge... Stop trying to convince people. Help them."

(29:07) Listen in the corners: "Listening in a presentation or around a board table with 25 slides in three minutes is probably not the right place... Listen in the corners. That's where the interesting things happen."

(31:11) Be curious not scared: "When I stopped being scared, I couldn't give a monkeys what anyone says to me about climate change anymore... I'm curious. I'm like, why do you think that?"

Episode 40: From Stuck to Starting: How to Move Forward with Your Sustainability Goals

(34:21) The Gordian knot: "When we know deep down that we're working in a system, a man-made system, a capitalist linear profit-driven system... that doesn't meet our values and that our actions, however well intentioned, maybe are not having any meaningful impact. That causes anxiety."

(39:08) The golden handcuffs: "It's a conflicting place and it can cause a bit of anxiety... I read on LinkedIn just this week about a couple of pilots who have written about them leaving the industry... But I think this can also be harnessed."

(41:27) Baby steps framework: "Front up, we've got an issue that business as usual, selling more stuff is not the way we are going to work our way out of this... But this isn't a handbrake turn job."

(43:56) Micro-progress philosophy: "Don't try and go from one to four to one to 20... Every ladder has about 10, 12, 20 rungs on it. So how do you go from rung one to rung two? What is your micro action?"

(46:15) The call to action: "Your task is to go from step one to step two, and then we'll go from step two to step three. And I want you to come back and tell me how you get on."

Featured Episodes:

1. Episode 22: How to Survive a Conversation with a Climate Denier
2. Episode 34: I'm Not Recruiting For A Cult
3. Episode 40: From Stuck to Starting: How to Move Forward with Your Sustainability Goals

Resources Mentioned:

1. Katherine Hayhoe's TED Talk: "The Most Important Thing You Can Do to Fight Climate Change Is Talk About It"
2. 52 Sustainability Hacks (previous episode series for practical micro-actions)
3. Carbon Literacy Project training programmes

Connect with Emma

Website

Email

Emma Burlow - LinkedIn

Book an enquiry call with Emma

https://calendly.com/emma-lighthouse/20min

In this practical and inspiring episode of Straight Talking Sustainability, host Emma Burlow sits down with Sanita Garley, Net Zero Transition Plan Lead at B&Q, to explore the often-discussed but rarely-demonstrated journey from setting net zero targets to actually implementing change across a major retail organisation.

With over 20 years in buying and product development before transitioning into sustainability three years ago, Sanita brings a refreshingly commercial perspective to the sustainability challenge, proving that expertise in carbon science matters far less than understanding how to get things done within business realities.

Sanita's transition into sustainability began when she identified a critical gap: the sustainability team worked incredibly hard to engage commercial colleagues, but those colleagues (herself included at the time) simply were not engaging. The pressures of margin targets, sales goals, and daily commercial realities created a barrier that well-intentioned sustainability professionals could not penetrate.

Recognising an opportunity to become the conduit between these two worlds, Sanita approached her manager Sam Dyer (Head of Responsible Business) and requested a chance to try a maternity cover role. Three years later, she now leads B&Q's entire Net Zero Transition Plan, focusing particularly on the notoriously complex Scope 3 emissions from products and vendors.

The conversation tackles imposter syndrome head-on, with Sanita admitting she felt massively out of her depth initially, knowing very little about carbon. However, her commercial mindset proved invaluable: "Give me a target, I'll go after it and I'll hit it."

By reframing carbon reduction as another business objective rather than an insurmountable technical challenge, Sanita demonstrates how non-sustainability professionals can bring fresh, practical approaches to what often feels like an impenetrable field. Her wide remit across B&Q's entire product range (rather than a focused category) presents unique challenges but also opportunities for systemic impact.

Throughout the episode, Sanita emphasises the critical importance of speaking stakeholders' language and respecting their pressures. Coming from the commercial world, she understands when not to have conversations ("it's a really bad time of year, guys") and how to frame sustainability requests in ways that resonate with buyers facing their own intense targets.

This commercial fluency, combined with genuine respect for colleagues' expertise, creates what Sanita describes as a "true exchange" where she relies on product experts' knowledge whilst they benefit from her sustainability guidance.

The discussion explores B&Q's impressive sustainability heritage, including founding membership of the FSC 30 years ago, pioneering peat-free compost, and achieving over 99% certification for wood and paper products. However, Sanita acknowledges that communicating these achievements to customers remains challenging when sustainability often does not resonate as strongly as retailers hope.

Her pragmatic response: "Let us do the heavy lifting for now" rather than waiting for consumer demand to drive every change. This philosophy of responsible business means making sustainability improvements behind the scenes because "you know what's right," even when customers are not yet asking for it.

Emma and Sanita discuss practical examples including the plant pot recycling initiative (collection points in 120 stores creating a closed-loop system), CBAM (Carbon Border Adjustment Mechanism) implementation where B&Q leads supplier engagement despite being the only retailer asking for certain data, and carbon literacy training that has now reached over 100 colleagues with ambitious plans for 2026.

The plant pot scheme, whilst not a major carbon reducer, demonstrates how visible, relatable initiatives build cultural acceptance and prove that sustainability solutions can actually work.

A significant portion of the conversation focuses on carbon literacy training and its transformational impact. Sanita herself became a certified carbon literacy trainer, overcoming significant personal doubts to deliver training courses that now fill quickly due to employee demand rather than mandate.

The most powerful validation came when a buyer reported that after training, every supplier conversation that week included questions about targets and scope emissions. This shift from sustainability teams asking buyers to engage suppliers, to buyers proactively raising these topics themselves, represents the holy grail of embedded sustainability culture.

Sanita candidly discusses ongoing challenges including meeting cancellations, last-minute dropouts, and the reality that "I have you ever met a non-frustrated sustainability professional?" However, she frames tolerance and empathy as core job requirements, recognising that colleagues face genuine pressures that prevent instant sustainability adoption.

Looking ahead to 2026, Sanita's priorities include communicating B&Q's sustainability work more effectively (in ways customers actually understand and value), increasing vendor engagement through collaborative supplier conversations, expanding carbon literacy training throughout the organisation, and potentially extending training to store colleagues who have daily customer contact.

Her vision centres on collective movement rather than isolated initiatives, recognising that climate crisis requires shared solutions rather than competitive advantage.

In this retail sustainability and organisational change episode, you'll discover:

1. Why commercial background beats carbon expertise when implementing net zero across retail operations
2. How to identify the "conduit" opportunity between sustainability teams and commercial colleagues
3. The importance of respecting stakeholder pressures before making sustainability asks
4. Why B&Q chooses to "do the heavy lifting" behind the scenes rather than waiting for consumer demand
5. How plant pot recycling initiatives build cultural acceptance despite modest carbon impact
6. The transformational power of carbon literacy training when voluntary rather than mandated
7. Why translating carbon savings into relatable metrics (cheeseburgers not tonnage) drives engagement
8. How CBAM implementation creates supplier collaboration opportunities despite complexity
9. The role of humour, optimism, and tolerance in preventing sustainability professional burnout

Key Retail Sustainability Implementation Insights:

(03:52) The commercial mindset advantage: "Give me a target. I'll go after it and I'll hit it. So I think that is what drives me... if you take away tons of carbon, carbon emissions, intensity, et cetera, end of the day, it's another target we've yet to hit."

(06:27) Speaking their language: "Because coming from that world, you understand their pressures, you learn how to speak their speech as well... It's a really bad time of year, guys. I wouldn't really be having this conversation then because they've got other things they need to go after."

(18:22) Building understanding over facts: "I devote a lot of my time and my energy towards ensuring the people that I engage with understand the logic of what it is I'm trying to do. Because if they don't get it, they won't do it again."

(19:20) Measuring success through action: "I had some great feedback from one of the buyers who came on the training. She said, this week, all the conversations I had with my suppliers, I've asked, have you set any targets? What are you doing in your scopes? I felt so proud."

(29:37) Respecting expertise: "I have colleagues in the buying teams who are absolute experts in their product areas... I have to rely on their expertise to carry me through what I'm trying to propose. And it's great because then it becomes a real true exchange."

(36:21) Responsible retailer philosophy: "What it does say to me then, we as a responsible retailer need to continue doing the heavy lifting for now. One day it will catch up... Let us do the heavy lifting. Let us be the ones who take that on."

(37:32) Doing what's right: "We do it anyway, because you know what's right... We don't necessarily shout out a lot about it, but it's OK. I always say, well, our time will come."

(39:29) Staying power matters: "Imagine if we all walked away. So someone's got to do the job, right?"

(40:22) Making it relatable: "If I start talking about carbon intensity and tons, very dry for them. So we go back and I said, today you have saved the equivalent of 7,000 burgers. Well done you."

Connect With Sanita

Sanita Garley | LinkedIn

Responsible business at B&Q

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Emma Burlow - LinkedIn

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https://calendly.com/emma-lighthouse/20min

In this action-packed solo episode of Straight Talking Sustainability, host Emma Burlow delivers exactly what sustainability-conscious listeners have been asking for: five straightforward switches that make the biggest dent in your personal carbon footprint, complete with referral codes, money-off promotions, and practical bonus links worth £332 to remove every excuse for inaction.

One of the biggest instant switches you can make - though it’s rarely included in carbon footprint tools!

1. £10k saved in a high‑street bank (e.g. HSBC, Barclays) = over 2 tonnes CO₂
2. The same amount with Nationwide or the Co‑operative Bank = less than 0.5 tonnes CO₂

Bonuses:

1. Nationwide: £175 switch bonus
2. Co‑op Bank: £100 switch bonus

Resources:

1. MotherTree’s Carbon Emissions Bank League Table (June 2023)
2. Bank.Green – find ethical & sustainable banks near you

One of the first and most impactful steps:

1. Cuts dependence on imported fossil fuels
2. Reduces carbon emissions
3. Supports the transition to a greener grid

📊 In the UK, renewables in the national grid have grown from 14% to 41% in just one year.

Resources:

1. UN & Carbon Brief: Five reasons why switching to renewables is smart economics
2. Octopus referral link: £50 credit

Small changes at home = big savings.

1. Smart meters: save £50+ per year and give real‑time control over energy use
2. Principle: If you can’t measure it, you can’t manage it
3. Insulation: pays for itself quickly once you start tracking usage
4. Thermostat: set to 18°C (WHO guidance for healthy adults; slightly higher for very young/old)
5. Don’t idle—switch off when not in use

Resources:

1. Octopus Energy: Energy Saving Tips save £157 a year

A plant‑rich diet can dramatically cut your footprint:

1. Reduces daily carbon emissions by 1,300g (≈ a 4‑mile drive)
2. Cuts overall footprint by 51%

Resources:

1. Veganuary: How plant‑based diets reduce carbon footprint
2. Athlete inspiration: Novak Djokovic, Lewis Hamilton, Venus Williams, and many more thrive on plant‑based diets

Knowledge is power. Most participants say the training opens their eyes to actions they hadn’t considered.

1. Courses available globally via The Carbon Literacy Project
2. Lighthouse Sustainability runs 4 open courses a year
3. Use code STS50 for £50 off any future course in 2026

💡 Even better: ask your employer to host a course for staff. We’ll handle everything—drop us a line at [email protected] to set up a call.

✨ Total bonus potential: £332!

Practical, impactful, and rewarding—these hacks make cutting carbon easier than ever.

Key Carbon-Cutting Actions and Resources:

(02:30) Banking bombshell revealed: "Your money is invested, albeit in your bank, your pension, your ISA, your mortgage even, and that institution will invest that money on your behalf. £10,000 in a high street bank like Barclays or HSBC could carry a carbon footprint of more than two tonnes."

(04:53) Switching incentives unpacked: "If you're in the UK, switching to Nationwide currently, there is a £175 bonus. Wow, I mean, that's massive, isn't it? And the Co-op is a hundred pounds. So if that's not a sweetener, I don't know what is."

(07:18) Renewable electricity simplified: "Switch to renewable electricity. One of the first things we all need to do if we're not already is switch to renewable electricity in our homes because it cuts our dependence on fossil fuels, reduces emissions, and it supports that vital transition to a greener grid."

(09:40) Thermostat reality check: "The World Health Organisation suggests that 18 degrees is healthy for adults. I will admit, that took me a couple of years, because I am a warm bug. This year, I'm really happy to say we're around 17 and a half, 18 degrees. Just watch your bills drop when you turn that thermostat down."

(11:03) Plant-rich diet demystified: "A plant-rich diet can reduce your daily footprint by 1.3 kilograms, which is the same as avoiding a four mile drive in a petrol or diesel car. Over time, it can cut your whole footprint from food by about half. If anyone tells you that plant-based diet makes you weak and grey and ill, just remind them that Novak Djokovic, Lewis Hamilton, Venus Williams and a load of other athletes credit their success to plant-rich diets."

(14:00) The confidence gap exposed: "What I want to share with you is coming on a course forces you to question some of the restrictions and barriers that stopping you from acting. It gives you time to think about your core values, what you actually want to do in life, how you actually want to act, the difference you actually want to make."

(15:34) The brutal truth about barriers: "Over 80% of people are concerned about climate change, particularly in Europe and the UK. But there's a value action gap. People have that value, but they don't act. And primarily because they are worried, and I'm almost embarrassed to say this, they are worried about what people think."

(17:00) The final call to action: "Five switches, the biggest ones, I think. £275 to get you off the sofa and onto the laptop and acting on it. And a big dent in your carbon footprint. Let me know how you get on, and if you do all five of them, I'll have you on as a guest and we can talk about how it was for you."

Connect with Emma

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Email

Emma Burlow - LinkedIn

Book an enquiry call with Emma

https://calendly.com/emma-lighthouse/20min

In this career-focused episode of Straight Talking Sustainability, host Emma Burlow sits down with Nick Valenzia, co-founder of Leafr (the world's largest marketplace for sustainability skills), to unpack the brutal realities facing sustainability professionals today: unclear career pathways, exhausting job searches, and the dangerous myth that passion alone will get you ahead.

Nick reveals how Leafr was born from his own frustrating experience trying to freelance in sustainability after his master's degree, unable to find a single platform connecting independent consultants with companies needing short-term expertise.

Despite launching with an "embarrassing website" (his words), the platform snowballed because it solved a real friction between supply and demand, now connecting over 2,000 vetted experts with hundreds of companies across three continents at approximately one third the cost of traditional consultancies.

The conversation tackles the uncomfortable truth that "sustainability professional" isn't actually a meaningful job title. As Nick puts it: "What is a sustainability professional? I've yet to see a good definition.

We all know what doctors do, but sustainability covers everything from carbon accounting to biodiversity to materials innovation to solar panels in space. There's not that much linking them apart from this higher mission to help the environment."

Emma and Nick explore why this creates impossible confusion for people trying to build careers in the space, with no clear door to walk through and no obvious progression from five years' experience to ten years' experience (unlike law, medicine, or accounting where pathways are well established).

The sector's rapid evolution means traditional markers like "ten years' experience" become meaningless when regulations like biodiversity net gain only launched last year.

Drawing on Cal Newport's book "Be So Good They Can't Ignore You", Emma challenges the sustainability sector's obsession with passion over mastery.

She argues that telling someone "it's great you're so passionate about this" is actually dangerous advice, both financially and professionally, because passion doesn't convince others of your expertise and won't help you get funded by CFOs who care about compliance risk and customer acquisition, not moral arguments about emissions.

Nick provides the episode's most practical advice for career progression: "Get good at selling it and framing it in terms the rest of the company will understand. If you want to convince the CEO and CFO why your programme should be funded, just saying 'we need to cut our emissions' unfortunately isn't going to cut it.

What cuts it is saying 'we risk being fined if we don't comply with this regulation' or 'we'll win X percent more customers because we know they want this.'"

The episode systematically explores the skills gap from both sides of Leafr's marketplace: companies that don't know what they need (let alone how to scope projects, set budgets, or determine which regulations affect them) and professionals who can't find work despite thousands applying for the same roles.

Nick explains how Leafr's AI tools help companies at that critical first stage, mapping out what potentially affects them and what they need to do, freeing up budget to shift from compliance investment to innovation and reduction investment.

Emma and Nick dig into quality assurance in a sector flooded with new entrants, where AI might give someone a few years' head start in appearing competent without actual depth of experience.

Nick reveals Leafr's four-step vetting process (written application, skill-level self-assessment with expert-level interviewing, referrals and case studies, behavioural and competency assessment, plus ongoing performance monitoring) that's led to zero unhappy clients to date despite hundreds of projects.

The conversation addresses why there's no obvious career pathway for sustainability professionals, with Nick arguing the sector needs to stop using "sustainability" as an umbrella term and instead recognise it covers dozens of distinct career paths requiring completely different skill sets.

He advocates for picking your specialism rather than saying "I work in sustainability" because that's not actually a thing, despite being someone who works in sustainability himself.

The episode explores the dangerous gap between having an "army" of sustainability professionals and actually supporting that army so they don't become exhausted, demotivated, and burnt out from applying for 20 jobs with no success.

Emma argues you can't go to war on an empty stomach, and the sector needs to shift focus from just recruiting more people to creating proper support infrastructure.

Nick and Emma discuss why sustainability roles lend themselves particularly well to sprint-based work (one to three months for carbon accounting baselines, SBTI submissions, net zero strategies) rather than permanent hires, especially given today's budget constraints.

This challenges the traditional employment model and suggests the future of sustainability work might be more project-based and flexible than other professions.

The conversation takes a controversial turn when discussing qualifications versus experience. Nick explains Leafr never asks how many years' experience someone has but instead requests examples of projects completed, because in a fast-moving field, doing a couple of biodiversity net gain projects in the last year puts you in the top 2% of the population despite having zero chance of ten years' experience in a regulation that launched recently.

Emma shares her belief that sustainability professionals shouldn't necessarily do another sustainability course but instead should study something they know nothing about (procurement, finance, marketing, other commercial skills) to return with different insights and become more valuable in business conversations.

This aligns with Nick's observation that skills adjacent to sustainability (writing well, sales, outreach) often matter more for career advancement than core technical knowledge.

The episode addresses the political and emotional weight that trainers and professionals in this space carry (feeling they need to solve resistance, worried about pushback, tied up in angst about climate communication) compared to trainers in other sectors who simply wake up, deliver their work, and go home without carrying moral burdens.

Emma argues the sector needs to create situations where there aren't any "bows and arrows" because this is professional upskilling, not a values battle.

Nick reveals Leafr's future focus on the supply side of the marketplace, investing heavily in training, community, and access to opportunities for the consultants on the platform, because when they do well, Leafr does well.

He's also excited about supporting companies before they're ready to post projects, providing more directional guidance and handholding for organisations that haven't started their sustainability journey yet.

The episode concludes with Nick's advice for professionals feeling stuck after a couple of years with no progression in a tough job market: look after your mental health first, because it's genuinely difficult right now and will pass, but also recognise that the skill separating good sustainability professionals from exceptional ones is making the business case for what you need to do.

The truly exceptional ones won't even need to make business cases because the language they speak naturally aligns with what keeps business leaders up at night (sales targets, invoices, customer problems).

Emma adds her own advice: don't do another sustainability course, do a course in something you don't know but need to get better at, because broader experience makes you more valuable in the room where decisions happen.

Throughout the conversation, Emma and Nick emphasise that speaking commercially shouldn't feel dirty to sustainability professionals working in private companies, because that's their bread and butter, and if you want to harmonise and hit sustainability goals in that context, you need to operate in the language and systems those organisations already use.

Key Career Progression and Skills Marketplace Insights:

(01:28) Leafr's mission introduced: "We are a VC funded startup that is the world's largest marketplace for sustainability skills. Companies can find independent sustainability consultants, experts, and specialists for any skill set, whether it's carbon accounting, biodiversity, anything between, at about one third the cost of consultancies."

(03:01) The origin story: "I was leaving a master's degree looking to freelance in the space and I couldn't find a single platform that would allow me to work across lots of different companies specifically within sustainability. Companies would all ask the same thing: do you know anyone who can do carbon accounting, we need someone on contract, we need someone really quickly for net zero strategy."

(04:25) The validation moment: "I spun up this embarrassing website and despite how terrible it was, it just started snowballing. If you succeed in spite of yourself, then really listen to that."

(07:37) The brutal truth about clarity: "The answer is they don't. It's really difficult for companies to scope what they need in terms of the project, scope what they need in terms of the rate and budget, because everyone's doing this for the first time."

(18:06) Defining the undefinable: "What is a sustainability professional? I've yet to see a good definition. We all know what doctors do. Sustainability covers carbon accounting, biodiversity, materials innovations, water treatment, solar panels in space. There's not that much linking those apart from this higher mission to help the environment. It's not really a field, it's an umbrella term for a huge network of career paths."

(21:22) The passion trap: "It's good to have passion and something that fulfils you, but a funny thing happens in sustainability where people are so passionate they come at it from a moral standpoint. That's not what gets you ahead in the space and it can be actively detrimental, especially working within private companies."

(22:59) The business case imperative: "Get good at framing it in terms that the rest of the company will understand. If you want to be head of sustainability or chief sustainability officer, you're going to need to convince the CEO and CFO why your program should be funded. Just saying 'we need to cut our emissions' unfortunately isn't going to cut it. What cuts it is saying 'we risk being fined if we don't comply' or 'we'll win X percent more customers because they want this.'"

(27:56) Quality assurance in a flooded market: "Our product fundamentally is the people on Leafr. We developed this vetting criteria with colleagues, advisors, people with PhDs in the space. You apply with written application, LinkedIn, select your skill level. If you say you're an expert at CSRD regulation, we will interview you at expert level for that."

(30:09) Experience versus expertise: "We never ask how many years' experience they have. We ask for examples of projects they've done. Biodiversity net gain regulation came out last year, it's impossible to be an expert with ten years' experience. If you've done a couple of biodiversity projects relating to that regulation in the last year, you'll be in the top 2% of the population."

(38:19) The defining career advice: "The one skill that separates sustainability professionals who are just good from really exceptional is being able to make the business case for what you want to do. If you're a really top head of sustainability, you'll win a lot of your business cases. But if you're exceptional, you won't even need to make them because the language you're speaking naturally aligns."

Connect with Nick

Leafr

Nick's LinkedIn

Leafr's Linkedin

https://leafr.circle.so/how-to-succeed-as-an-independent-sustainability-consultant

Connect with Emma

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Email

Emma Burlow - LinkedIn

Book an enquiry call with Emma

https://calendly.com/emma-lighthouse/20min

In this game-changing solo episode of Straight Talking Sustainability, host Emma Burlow reveals the counterintuitive strategy that's transforming how organisations achieve climate action: forget trying to convince everyone and focus on activating just 25% of your workforce to create unstoppable momentum.

Emma unpacks the frustrating paradox facing sustainability professionals everywhere: if 80% of UK adults care about climate change (DESNZ 2025) and 73% of businesses say they're prioritising net zero (Net Zero Business Census 2025), why does driving action feel so impossibly difficult?

The answer lies in understanding tipping points, social norming, and the critical mass needed to shift organisational culture from apathy to action.

Drawing on behavioural psychology research from the University of Pennsylvania, Emma explains how social change movements (from Me Too to Black Lives Matter) achieve transformation when approximately 25% of a community actively engages.

This isn't about awareness or concern (that's your 80%), this is about people willing to bring sustainability into their work conversations, decisions, and daily actions without being asked.

The episode challenges the exhausting approach most sustainability professionals are taking: picking off individuals one by one, hunting for ambassadors, playing the long game of incremental change.

Instead, Emma advocates for strategic activation of your critical 25% (one in four people in any meeting room) who then naturally lead the remaining 75% through social norming and peer influence.

Emma shares a powerful case study from the housing sector where training just 50 to 60 people (around 25% of a 200-person organisation) over five to six months created a complete cultural transformation.

The shift wasn't about hitting carbon targets immediately but about transitioning people from "somebody else's target, I'll get on with my job" to "I'm behind this target, this is what I do to contribute, and I've got loads of ideas."

The organisation moved from having virtually no one able to articulate their net zero strategy to ensuring every meeting with four or more people included at least one carbon-literate advocate who would naturally raise sustainability considerations.

The episode systematically dismantles three persistent myths: that you need 100% buy-in to succeed, that targets automatically equal action (spoiler: there's a massive target-action gap), and that individual champions alone can create the momentum needed for transformation.

Emma argues that whilst your 1% to 2% early adopters might be important sparks, they never achieve critical mass without a deliberate strategy to activate the broader 25%.

Emma introduces the concept of the "messy middle" (the 60% to 80% of your organisation between the 10% to 20% who are already committed and the 10% to 20% you'll likely never convince).

This messy middle is where your 25% lives, and Emma provides practical frameworks for identifying them through three strategic lenses: roles where climate action has the most impact (facilities, supply chain, commercial, finance), teams that interact with key stakeholders (marketing, sales, customer-facing roles), and individuals already showing quiet interest regardless of their position.

The episode explores why the value-action gap persists despite high levels of concern, examining how busy professionals who genuinely care about climate change remain silent because they assume others don't care and fear looking like "the social pariah" who disrupts business as usual.

Emma explains how this creates a vicious cycle where everyone waits for permission and social norming that never comes, resulting in organisations with strong ambition, brilliant strategies, and even budgets that still feel like they're dragging their people through sustainability rather than being driven by them.

Drawing on the Tiny Habits method, Emma breaks down the three essential elements of behaviour change that most sustainability programmes miss: motivation (caring about the issue), ability (having the knowledge and skills), and the critically overlooked prompt (encountering others who are also engaged).

Without that prompt (bumping into advocates in corridors, chatting over lunch, being in meetings where others raise sustainability), even motivated and knowledgeable people remain stuck in inaction.

The episode provides actionable homework for listeners: identify three roles or teams where the shift from "I know about it but I'm not involved" to "I know about it, I'm motivated, and I'm enthusiastic" would have the most impact.

Emma guides listeners to spread these strategically across the organisation, look for people already showing interest, and identify who's under the most pressure from sustainability targets (who you can actually help by building their support network).

Emma challenges the conventional wisdom of training 100% of workforces, particularly in large organisations where this becomes prohibitively difficult.

Instead, she advocates for strategic, targeted activation of 25% that creates exponential growth through doubling effects (2% to 4% to 8% to 16% to 32%), mirroring how industrial revolutions and trend adoption actually happen in practice.

Throughout the episode, Emma emphasises that this isn't about finding the people who touch carbon-heavy activities (transport, supply chain) but about identifying people with influence, peer pressure potential, and stakeholder reach. The carbon reductions follow when you get the culture right, not the other way around.

The episode concludes with an open invitation for listeners to experiment with the 80-25 rule in their own organisations, share their learning, and even join Emma on the podcast to discuss their results.

Emma positions this reframing as both simpler to implement and more effective than current approaches, offering hope to sustainability professionals stuck in the hard yards of incremental individual engagement.

In this behaviour change and organisational culture episode, you'll discover:

• Why 80% concern about climate change doesn't translate to action without social norming
• The psychology research proving 25% activation creates tipping points for social change
• How to identify your critical 25% across roles, influence networks, and stakeholder touchpoints
• Why training everyone is less effective than strategically activating one in four people
• The housing sector case study showing transformation with 50 to 60 trained people in five to six months
• The three elements of behaviour change that sustainability programmes typically miss (motivation, ability, prompt)
• How to break the vicious cycle of silence where everyone assumes others don't care
• Why your 1% to 2% champions never achieve critical mass without a broader activation strategy
• The messy middle concept and how to convert the persuadable 60% to 80% of your organisation
• Practical frameworks for writing down your three highest-impact roles or teams this week

Key Tipping Point and Culture Change Insights:

(01:10) The 80-25 rule introduced: "The behaviour change science, the psychology science tells us that you just need to activate around 25% of a community, maybe in our case a workforce, to get action, to create social change, to change a cultural norm."

(02:45) The frustrating paradox: "80% of adults are concerned about climate change when asked according to DESNZ 2025... 73% of UK businesses say they're prioritising net zero... Why does it feel so bloody difficult? This should be an absolute pushover."

(04:11) The critical mass research: "The psychologists are telling us, and this was from a piece of work done a few years ago now by Sentola from Penn University, said that the trigger or the tipping point for social change is around 25%. Just one in four."

(05:47) Historical context for change: "Never underestimate the power of a small group of people to achieve great things. In fact, that's all that ever has... all that's ever changed things is action by a small group of people that grows."

(08:09) The strategic shift: "Stop trying to convince the 100%... Stop trying to pick off the 1 or 2% and less focus on the 25%. That is your critical mass. Your 1s and 2s might be your sparks but they never get critical mass."

(10:38) The housing sector transformation: "At some point... what became the 25% started leading the 75%... for any meeting that took place with more than four people, we could feel pretty sure that there would be one person in that room who'd been through carbon literacy training."

(11:23) Culture shift not target completion: "The transition wasn't meeting the targets, right? But the transition from somebody else's target, I'll get on with my job, to I'm behind this target and this is what I do to contribute to it. And guess what? I'm really excited about it and I've got loads of ideas."

(13:04) Strategic pinpointing task: "I want you to write down three roles in your organisation where climate action could have the most impact... spreading them out across the business... who's already shown some interest... who is the most under pressure from these targets."

(16:45) The messy middle concept: "There's 10 or 20% of your organisation who you do not need to convince and you may never convince. There's 10 or 20% the other end who are already committed... And then you've got the middle, the messy middle. So that's where you want to find your 25%."

(17:41) The forgotten element: "Behaviour change, and I love the tiny habits method, requires motivation, ability (that's the knowledge), and the one we all forget, which is the prompt... If no one else is talking about it, if you're the Lone Ranger, you've got no prompt. People follow people."

Resources and Research Mentioned:

• University of Pennsylvania research on 25% tipping points (Sentola)
• DESNZ 2025 report (80% UK adults concerned about climate change)
• Net Zero Business Census 2025 (73% of UK businesses prioritising net zero)
• Tiny Habits method (behaviour change framework)
• Housing sector case study (200-person organisation, 50 to 60 people trained, five to six-month transformation)

Connect with Emma

Website

Email

Emma Burlow - LinkedIn

Book an enquiry call with Emma

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In this inspiring and deeply personal episode of Straight Talking Sustainability, host Emma Burlow sits down with Ben Luger, Marketing Project Specialist at Ecosurety, to explore how volunteering can be the secret weapon for engaging people in climate action whilst simultaneously improving mental health and building stronger communities.

Ben's journey from delivering carbon literacy training to establishing a thriving community tree nursery in just 12 months demonstrates how individual action, when channelled through community organising, creates exponential impact without the overwhelming time and energy drain that most people fear.

Ben traces his volunteering journey back to an unexpected source: delivering carbon literacy training for the packaging sector.

Whilst training others about the causes and impacts of the climate crisis, he found himself experiencing increasing climate anxiety despite making personal lifestyle changes (not flying, barely using a car, cutting meat consumption, sustainable banking).

The deep dive into climate science that carbon literacy demands created an "itching urge" to do more, which reached a tipping point at the Blue Earth Summit in 2024.

After two days of talks, panels, and workshops, Ben felt simultaneously enlightened and frustrated by what he describes as an "echo chamber of the same people coming together to talk about it."

The breakthrough came during a session called Reasons To Be Cheerful featuring inspiring community activists including Speech Debelle (who launched Black Fish to connect Black communities with fishing and nature) and No Ven (who transformed a community garden whilst escaping years of abuse).

Two days after that talk, Ben was writing emails to launch his own community tree nursery project.

What makes Ben's story particularly powerful for sustainability professionals experiencing burnout is how he found an existing community organisation (Rooted Chippenham) rather than starting from scratch.

By approaching an established Community Interest Company with an existing volunteer base of 30 people, polytunnel, and governance structure, Ben could piggyback on infrastructure whilst contributing his marketing and communications skills.

The group launched a crowd funder with match funding and hit their initial target within 24 hours, ultimately raising nearly three times their goal (£4,300) by the campaign's end.

The conversation explores why volunteering works where other engagement approaches fail. Ben describes discovering an "extended family" of like-minded people on his doorstep who share the same worries, anxieties, and motivations.

This social connection creates energy rather than draining it, transforming what could feel like another burden into something people actively look forward to.

Emma relates her own volunteering experiences (parkrun, local library, helplines) and reflects on how people outside the volunteering world consistently underestimate the benefits whilst overestimating the time commitment.

Ben candidly discusses how volunteering has become his antidote to climate and biodiversity crises, particularly during a difficult year when grief from his father's death resurfaced a decade later. His GP prescribed nature, which led Ben to recognise how local nature-based projects offer something uniquely cleansing and energising.

Now running both the tree nursery (growing around 1,000 trees annually for free distribution to local residents) and community bat walks, Ben describes feeling "unburdened" compared to the anxiety that previously consumed him.

For workplace applications, Ben explains that whilst Ecosurety offers three volunteering days annually (with corporate sponsorship for his projects), only about one third of employees across organisations typically use these days.

The challenge is not lack of provision but rather helping people overcome the perception of volunteering as an energy drain when they already feel stretched. Ben and his colleagues have discovered that team volunteering days (tree planting, coastal walks for charity) become "the most incredible team building days" because people accomplish something meaningful whilst strengthening workplace bonds away from their desks.

The episode provides practical guidance for listeners feeling called to action: look for existing community groups before starting something new, consider how your professional skills (marketing, communications, finance, project management, horticulture) could support community projects, start with a simple social media post to gauge interest, and recognise that monthly or even weekly commitments need not be overwhelming.

Ben emphasises the importance of measuring and communicating impact (volunteer numbers, trees distributed, community engagement touchpoints) to demonstrate value and attract additional support.

Throughout the conversation, both Emma and Ben challenge the notion that individuals cannot make a difference in the face of the climate and biodiversity crises.

By focusing on tangible, local, joyous activities that bring communities together around nature, volunteering creates positive climate action that feels achievable rather than overwhelming.

Ben's nine-year-old son now co-leads bat walks and has joined the local youth council, demonstrating how parental volunteering creates ripple effects across generations.

In this community volunteering and climate action episode, you'll discover:

• How carbon literacy training can catalyse personal community action and address climate anxiety
• Why finding existing community organisations beats starting projects from scratch
• The unexpected mental health benefits of nature-based volunteering (even GP-prescribed)
• How crowdfunding can validate community desire for environmental projects (£4,300 raised in five weeks)
• Why only one-third of employees use workplace volunteering days despite generous policies
• The skills transfer between professional work and community projects that creates impact
• How to measure volunteering impact beyond just numbers (touchpoints, engagement, community validation)
• Why volunteering energises rather than drains when approached as joyous community building
• Practical frameworks for starting local environmental projects without overwhelming time commitments

Key Volunteering and Community Action Insights:

(02:30) The carbon literacy catalyst: "I think delivering carbon literacy training, like taking this deep dive in the causes and impacts of a climate crisis... I felt like I just needed to be doing more personally... I had this itching urge that I had to be doing something more, really."

(04:41) The tipping point moment: "Something clicked when I was there listening to that and it's like, I need to get off my arse and do something. I literally had that thing of like, oh my God, stop thinking about it. Literally two days after that event, I was writing loads of emails to kick off my project."

(07:59) Finding community infrastructure: "I just approached them and I went to volunteer and said, I've got this mad idea. I'm going to set up a tree nursery. I'm going to grow thousands of trees. Give them all away. Can I do it here? And they went, yeah, we'll support you. And I just fell into this incredible group of people."

(09:46) Discovering local allies: "My eyes were opened immediately... it was just this lovely bunch of people. And half of it was just socialising. And I was like, oh, this is why connecting with the community is good. It's like suddenly I've got to know those people locally."

(11:26) Energy versus drain: "When you start volunteering like this, it doesn't feel like a burden... I actually learned very quickly. It's really energising. And it's some of my favourite weekends is when we've got a big volunteer meetup."

(19:38) Community validation through crowdfunding: "We hit our initial target in 24 hours... We ended up raising nearly three times what we set out to by the end. But what really blew our minds at Rooted was how much the community wanted it and backed it."

(24:19) Mental health transformation: "In terms of my mental health, it's like so much better. I've taken on running public bat walks now... it's another thing to add on that makes me feel amazing."

(27:09) Nature as prescription: "The doctor prescribed me nature... he was like, you don't need pills or anything, just go out in nature. And I did, and it can totally save me... Being with people in nature in your community is quite cleansing."

(36:28) Workplace volunteering uptake: "We get three volunteering days a year, which is amazing... I've met people from other companies... who have volunteering days and they've said, we get about a third of the workforce use them and two thirds of those days go unused."

(42:14) Time commitment reality: "I run a tree nursery I go there like once a month... in busy summertime we split the watering I'll be there once a week maybe but it's not that much is it."

Resources and Organisations Mentioned:

• Rooted Chippenham (Community Interest Company)
• Blue Earth Summit
• Black Fish project
• Carbon Literacy Project
• Ecosurety (corporate volunteering and sponsorship model)
• Community tree nurseries across UK (80+ growing 250,000 trees annually)

Connect with Ben

Ecosurety

Ecosurety Links

Rooted Chippenham

Rooted Chippenham's Crowd Fund

Connect with Emma

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Email

Emma Burlow - LinkedIn

Book an enquiry call with Emma

https://calendly.com/emma-lighthouse/20min

In this landmark anniversary episode of Straight Talking Sustainability, host Emma Burlow celebrates one year of the podcast by revisiting the most impactful moments from five extraordinary guests who have shared their hard-earned wisdom over the past 12 months.

After nearly 30 years in the sustainability sector, Emma knows that we simply do not have time to keep knowledge locked away, which is why she launched this podcast to democratise sustainability expertise and make connections across industries, backgrounds, and experience levels.

This bumper compilation episode features powerful excerpts from conversations with industry leaders, changemakers, and thought leaders who are actively transforming how we approach climate action, carbon literacy, sustainable living, and systemic change.

From heavy industry decarbonisation to personal behaviour change, from ambitious climate action to managing eco-anxiety, these voices represent the breadth and depth of sustainability challenges and solutions.

Nicola Jones, Market Business Development Manager at Tata Steel UK, shares insights from the frontlines of industrial transformation, revealing how a £1.25 billion investment in electric arc furnace technology will deliver an immediate 90% carbon reduction when it comes online in 2027. Her perspective dismantles the myth that heavy industry resists climate action, demonstrating instead how customer Scope 3 emissions requirements are driving rapid change. Nicola explains why companies that fail to decarbonise will lose customers within five to ten years, making sustainability not just ethical but essential for business survival.

Briony Pete, Director at The Circular Life, explores the critical importance of mindset in sustainability work, tackling imposter syndrome, overwhelm, and the burnout that sustainability professionals frequently experience. She introduces practical frameworks for understanding where people are on their sustainability journey (from closed to leadership-ready) and emphasises the power of meeting people where they are rather than expecting everyone to jump to expert level immediately. Her insights about moving from judgement to curiosity offer a roadmap for more effective sustainability communication.

Andy Middleton, Co-Founder of Do Good Faster, brings a provocative perspective on ambition and long-term thinking. Drawing on his experience taking 200,000 people safely through potentially dangerous outdoor adventures, he argues that we are facing a "big volume class five rapid" as a species, yet most people have not even looked at the river or understand the terminology. He challenges the notion of being "realistic" by arguing that true realism means preparing for the threats and opportunities ahead with appropriate urgency and scale.

Jen Gale, Author of The Sustainable(ish) Living Guide, offers candid reflections on managing climate anxiety whilst doing advocacy work, the power of reaching mainstream audiences rather than preaching to the converted, and why influence often creates unseen ripples that advocates may never witness. Her work with schools, veterinary practices, and the Sustainable(ish) community demonstrates how embedding sustainability conversations in trusted community institutions can create exponential impact.

Phil Korbel, co-founder of the Carbon Literacy Project, explains how carbon literacy training has become one of the most powerful tools for closing the gap between net zero targets and actual action. With examples ranging from AutoTrader (a FTSE 100 company driven by employee demand) to the British Plastics Federation, Phil demonstrates that carbon literacy works across all sectors by giving people the emotional engagement and practical agency to act on climate knowledge they may already possess intellectually.

Throughout this anniversary special, common themes emerge: the importance of meeting people where they are, the power of cross-sector collaboration, the need for systemic rather than siloed thinking, and the critical role of building confidence and capacity across organisations rather than expecting sustainability teams to carry the entire burden alone.

These conversations remind us that sustainability transformation is not about perfection but about progress, not about experts holding knowledge but about democratising access to tools and insights that enable everyone to contribute.

In this anniversary sustainability compilation episode, you'll discover:

• How Tata Steel's 90% carbon reduction proves heavy industry is leading (not following) on decarbonisation
• Why customer Scope 3 requirements create more powerful drivers than regulation in many sectors
• The mindset shifts that prevent burnout whilst maintaining impact in sustainability roles
• How to identify where people are on their sustainability journey and meet them appropriately
• Why preparing for a "class five rapid" requires ambition that many dismiss as unrealistic
• The challenge of thinking across 200-year time scales when business typically plans three years ahead
• How climate anxiety affects advocates and practical strategies for managing emotional impact
• Why unseen ripples mean your sustainability influence extends far beyond what you can measure
• The "carbon literacy catch-22" (you don't understand its value until you experience it)
• How AutoTrader became the first FTSE 100 carbon literacy adopter through employee advocacy

Key Anniversary Insights and Timestamps:

(02:00) Nicola Jones on competitive necessity: "I think the reality is if we don't decarbonise, we're not going to have any customers in five to 10 years time because our customers have also got scope three emissions reduction goals. And if they're not going to get their low carbon emission steels from us, they'll go somewhere else to get it."

(11:05) Briony Pete on mindset fundamentals: "How we think affects how we feel and how we feel affects how we act. If we're trying to change behaviours, we've got to start with how we're thinking and we've got to start with an awareness of what's the most common theme of my thoughts."

(18:20) Briony on meeting people appropriately: "We're expecting people to jump to where we are... And actually when we meet people where we are, we can say, well, how open are you to change? And if you're closed, then I don't want to talk to you about sustainability. I want to build relationship with you and build trust."

(24:19) Andy Middleton on long-term thinking: "Dad died at 100. And I've paid to some of them sitting with his two great grandchildren and their lives together could span 200 years. So we've really got to understand how to fall into the messiness of thinking longer term."

(29:07) Andy on organisational readiness: "In terms of our rapid facing as a species, I think as a minimum, we're facing a big volume class five. Now, if you're doing that for real, every single person going down the river would have paddled class three before. But right now, most people haven't been in a raft or looked at the video of a river."

(32:41) Jen Gale on career commitment: "What else would I do? Which doesn't mean I'm stuck in any shape or form... For me, I've not really known what else I've ever wanted to do. And I think that's just about having a strong commitment to something."

(37:14) Jen on reaching mainstream audiences: "We've got to meet people where they are and we've got to meet them at a level that they can act on... People learn off people. People follow people."

(41:59) Jen on unseen impact: "A lot of the impact will be unseen and unknown. And a lot of the criticism will be very in your face... It can feel like a thankless task all the time."

(45:36) Phil Korbel on the carbon literacy barrier: "I call it the carbon literacy catch 22. You don't get carbon literacy until you're carbon literate... The number of advocates in employers that come back to me say, they see a day away from the job. Yeah, I get that a lot... No, of course it's the job. It is the job."

(50:14) Phil on sector transformation: "I'm not sure if there is a trend. Because of the way that we've grown, it tends to be stories being passed on. It's very word of mouth that people are coming to us and some are small with big impacts, some are huge that are coming in."

Featured Guests:

• Nicola Jones (Tata Steel UK) - 26-year steel industry veteran leading sustainability initiatives
• Briony Pete (The Circular Life) - Sustainability mindset coach and behaviour change expert
• Andy Middleton (Do Good Faster co-founder) - Systems thinker and ambition advocate
• Jen Gale (The Sustainable(ish) Living Guide author) - Mainstream sustainability communicator
• Phil Korbel (Carbon Literacy Project co-founder) - Carbon literacy pioneer and trainer

Connect with Emma

Website

Email

Emma Burlow - LinkedIn

Book an enquiry call with Emma

https://calendly.com/emma-lighthouse/20min