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Jason is the host of the very successful Contrabass Conversations podcast.

Jason, what's your worst moment as a performer?

Sophomore year at Northwestern University. Played a recital including a piece that was very "chromatic." Meaning that intonation is very important and it's difficult to play in tune.

I just wasn't prepared to play that piece. Afterwards, I hid in the locker room until people had left.

Lesson learned: Put intonation at priority #1. If it's not in tune, who cares?

Key Takeaways

The audacity of youth, thinking we're invincible.

Pressure situations make people "fold" because of increased heart rate. The rhythm goes first with shallow breathing, tightening of the muscles, etc.

Learn to accept you'll have a physical reaction and don't let it affect your physiological state.

Interviewing bassists has helped Jason as a performer. Each interview is like a free lesson in performance.

Practicing with the long term goal in mind is a commonality among top bassists around the world.

Jason recommends you check out Time for Three!

Check out Jason's book, Winning the Audition!

The Hot Seat

It's 5 minutes before you go on stage for a performance. What are you doing? Breathing deeply, visualizing a successful performance.

What's the best performance advice you've ever received? Love and joy.

What can you share with people who suffer from stage fright? Start recording yourself. Develop a habit of recording yourself with no prior practice. That becomes your "floor."

What's a non-musical activity that contributes to your success as a musician? Staying physically active. I run, lift weights, etc.

It's the end of the performance. The audience is on its feet, giving you a standing ovation. They don't want any more, they don't want any less. Everything is just perfect. What have you just done? Played Beethoven 9 with the Iris Chamber Orchestra.

Wow! this is Jason's third appearance on the podcast!

Harry Kim is based in Los Angeles where he actively performs and is currently on a short tour with Phil Collins and his band.

JN: Harry, get us up to speed. What's going on in your world?

HK: Well, if this is a secret, I can't tell anyone. (laughing)

I'm excited about this tour because we haven't toured since 2005. It's always fun, the music is terrific. Just been preparing for that and memorizing music. There's just nothing fun for me than performing really great music live.

JN: Is memorizing music a struggle for you?

HK: Yes. I happen to have one of those brains that deletes stuff when you don't need it. My partner Dan Fornero remembers stuff that I wrote 20 years ago. I don't have that kind of brain. It's not because I'm not interested, it's just that I'm ADD and I don't focus on certain things.

JN: This podcast is about peak performance for musicians, and obviously you've been around the block once or twice. So let's start out with what you consider to be one of your worst moments as a performer. A time when you expected to do well but fell short.

HK: I can think of a moment when I knew things were going to be bad. I had some dental problems in 1997. I was touring with Phil Collins and they were going to shoot a video. So I started out trying to play as well as I could, not playing scared, but knew it wasn't going to be great.

It ended up okay. It's all on video from one of Phil Collins' tour videos. I think it's called "Footloose in Paris" or something. I was cracking notes all over the place. The dental work hadn't gone as I thought and I didn't expect it to affect me as it did. I had to play purely by will. I had no feel for the trumpet. I put it up to my chops and it felt foreign.

 

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JN: What kind of dental work was it?

HK: When my wisdom teeth came in earlier in my life, the top ones came in sideways, pointing forward. They did some damage to the bone of the back molars. I ended up getting infections in the molars all the time. Long story short, in 97 I decided to have the molars pulled. After a few days, I tried to play trumpet and it didn't feel good. But I just thought it's because of the dental work, it would come back. But I never got a feel for the trumpet.

It took me about 3 years before I could play confidently, and about 7 years before I could perform well again.

So this video was right after the teeth were pulled. I wasn't confident playing within the staff, let alone high G's and what not. It was sheer will that I got the notes out. So there were a lot of cracked notes in there. It's one of those times in your life where you just have to do what you have to.

JN: It sounds to me like you thought you were taking care of a problem, but you were just creating more problems. 

HK: Yes. It took me awhile to realize what I was doing differently. I remember this happened around the fall of 97, then January 98 I started playing from scratch. What I realized is that when I play the trumpet, my tongue kind of expands sideways. It leans against my back teeth. So when those molars were taken out, my tongue moved forward to lean against the next teeth.

This was unconscious. I didn't detect it. It took several years to figure this out. Basically my tongue was so far forward it was cutting off the air, which caused a whole chain reaction of other variables.

When I discovered that was the problem, I needed to relearn where to put my tongue while...

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY

THREE KEY TAKEAWAYS

Words are powerful!

Repetition - practice until you can't get it wrong.

Take a "great breath" to help with your focus.

QUOTABLE QUOTES

"The key to being successful is practicing something so many times until you can't get it wrong."

"Performing in front of 20,000 people really helps with your confidence."

GARRETT'S WORST MOMENT AS A PERFORMER

When performing with the Blue Devils drum corps, an instructor took him aside a few minutes prior to a major event and told him, "You miss too many notes." Because I was thinking about missing notes, I went on to have a terrible show, and of course missed a lot of notes.

THE HOT SEAT

Q: It’s 5 minutes before you go on stage for an important performance… What are you doing?

A: We wait until the last possible moment to get dressed. We're cracking jokes together, trying to keep a light environment.

Q: What’s the best performance-related advice you've ever received?

A:  Dave Schultz said, "Just have fun."

Q: Can you share one tip for our listeners to help deal with stage fright? (Physical, mental, etc.)

A: Andrew Golden said, "Just eat a banana. No one ever died because you missed a note."

Q: What’s a non-musical activity that contributes to your success as a musician?

A: Cooking has a wonderful correlation to music. Fundamentals, recipes, etc. Cooking keeps me honest because if I don't make a meal well, it's because I haven't practiced enough.

Q: Imagine you’re on stage. It’s the end of the performance and the audience is on its feet, applauding. They don’t want any more and they don’t want any less. Everything is perfect. What have you just done?

A: On the show Blast! in Tokyo. That show is so loved by the public in Japan.

Augie Haas is a lead trumpet player, most recently touring with Harry Connick, Jr.'s band.

JN: Augie, get us up to speed. What's going on in your world?

AH: Working on some new projects. Got a new CD in the works with my trio, and I wrote and illustrated a kids book that's being accompanied with music. I'm also working on a cookbook that's kind of paired with music.

JN: How do you pair a cookbook with music?

AH: I don't want to reveal too much before it's released, but it's basically pairing the perfect music with different entrees.

JN: Augie, you've been around the block. Harry Connick, Jr. doesn't hire just anyone to play lead trumpet for him. This podcast is about peak musical performance, so let's start with what you consider to be one of your worst moments as a performer.

 

AH: One time I was touring with Harry, and I wasn't feeling 100% on the trumpet, and I was also having a hard time hearing the rest of the band. So we came in on a shout section, and because I had a hard time hearing, I was 2 beats in front of everyone else. I played the entire section 2 beats ahead of the whole band.

I was reading your questions before this interview, and I'm not sure I like the word "fail" in a situation like this. I view it more of a negotiation. I decided this is what I heard and this is where I'm going to put this for better or worse. So this was a big one because it was still early touring with Harry and he's looking at me funny. But I owned it, and afterwards he came up to me and said, "Honestly, I thought the whole band was wrong and you were right."

So even though that moment was a failed performance moment, when you look at the big picture, you just have to remember it's music. At the end of the day, you do it because it's fun. If you think about that going in, it makes it a little bit less stressful. Of course, you want to play your best.

JN: So it wasn't one of those things where you know it's a mistake but can hide it. Everyone knows something is up.

AH: Yeah, you're playing to a crowd of 2,000. Harry attracts a different kind of audience. A few love him for doing When Harry Met Sally, but you also have a lot of great musicians in the audience. That's what makes it difficult. At the end of the day, people notice but they don't really care. You have to deal with your own criticism of yourself.

JN: At the end of the day, it's black dots on a piece of paper, and our job is to make people happy.

AH: I think what people do when they encounter failure in their performance is to make "the face." That's when you really fail. It's not your job to decide whether it's good or not. It's someone else's job. So when you make that face, it sends a message to the audience and it affects whether or not they actually enjoy it. You're putting out an energy that isn't positive.

I've made a lot of mistakes, but it's really about negotiating those mistakes. Don't give it away. Many times, people don't realize what has happened.

But "The Face" is when you've really failed as a performer.

JN: So how do you just own your mistake and acknowledge to those who did notice that you've owned it and want to make the best of it?

AH: I think the best response is to realize it's live performance. You can screw up but just stay in the moment. You can't get too far ahead. Your intent is the most important part. Am I being as musical as I can? So missing one note, or even playing an entire shout section 2 beats ahead, your intent is in the best place. No one got hurt, and you don't want it to affect your performance.

JN: Take us to a moment when things can't go wrong. Chops feel great, you feel on fire as a player.

Ryan Anthony is the principal trumpet with the Dallas Symphony Orchestra and founder of a Cancer Blows, an annual concert series featuring the world's top trumpeters to raise funds and awareness towards finding a cure for multiple myeloma, which he was diagnosed with in 2013.

JN: Ryan, get us up to speed. What's going on in your world right now?

RA: The Cancer blows concerts have been a stunning success. When we did it in 2015, we thought it would just be a one-off concert. After my diagnosis, I was given x number of years to be able to fight it, and I was touched by so many colleagues around the world.

It was actually Doc Severinsen who started it. A week before my first bone marrow transplant, he asked if there was anything he could do to help. At that point, just to give myself something to hold onto, I just asked him to promise me we could share the stage together one more time. That really became the battle cry to everyone: just tell me we can share the stage one day. I thought they were just being nice to give me something to hold onto during the transplant, but it turns out that they kept their promises.

It’s been a huge success. I’ve been amazed with the amount of artists who want to be involved, to use our talents to do something good. For me, it’s really the best medicine that you could ask for.

JN: It had to have been a morale boost to have so many great players wanting to participate.

RA: Yes. These are my heroes wanting to stand by my side. It makes me feel like a kid again. I told my wife that if we get to a point where we can beat this, I've literally been given a stage where we can make some noise about it. This is my new lot in life. I have a voice for other patients who don't have one.

JN: Ryan, you're a world-class performer. And I like to start each interview for this podcast with what you consider to be one of your worst moments as a performer. A time when you expected to do well, but it just didn't work out.

RA: Right off the bat, I can think of two particular concerts. The first was in Cincinnati, and I just was not able to perform the show and do what I expected, nor of what the audience expected. I finally had to just come out and apologize to the audience. I told them I was having some issues and just couldn't get through the program, and that all I could do was give them my best.

It turns out that it was a very moving experience for myself and everyone there. It was a learning experience for me. I learned it's not necessarily about the notes. It's about the honesty and just giving 100% of what I could do that day.

Sometimes, it meant taking things down an octave, sometimes it meant changing the program around. It was very embarrassing for me at the time. But looking back, it ended up being a very positive turning point because I was able to connect with the audience in a way I ordinarily wouldn't have been able to.

RA: Another story is from about 3 years ago. I was on some new treatments and it just wasn't working. I felt like I was letting not only myself down, but my colleagues and the audience as well. So I finished the concert and went home and told my wife that I just didn't think I could continue doing my job with circumstances as they were. I wasn't playing in a way that I did when I accepted the job.

That concert, I was not playing well. I couldn't play the part, I was missing notes. But the very next day, I got an email from a family in Oklahoma. A woman's father was diagnosed with multiple myeloma, and he didn't want to continue doing the treatments, didn't want the transplant. So they took him to the symphony concert in Dallas just to get away, and they pointed out to the father that there's this guy down there playing trumpet.

Adrian Griffin is principal trumpet with the Monterrey Symphony Orchestra. He's also the author of Buzz to Brilliance.

JN: This podcast all about peak musical performance. And in order to reach the peak, you have to go through a few valleys. So let's start out with what you consider to be your worst moment as a performer.

AG: When I was new here in Mexico, we were playing a tune that is equivalent to the national Anthem in Mexico, called Juapango. It's programmed three quarters of the way through the program. The concert is going fine, I'm feeling a little tired but nothing unusual.

Juapango is famous for a trumpet and trombone duel in the middle of the piece. I've played it many times, but I'm still relatively new to the orchestra. So the trombone player does his thing, then I come in and it's going great. But then I turn the page and I realize that the next 3-4 pages are out of order.

I'm freaking out. I'm using the few measures of rest frantically looking for my music. I think I know it from memory, but I'm not willing to test it out in this moment. So nothing happens. The trombone player finishes his solo, it's my turn to come in and there's nothing. Trombone has his solo, and I'm still looking for my music.

Long story short is I played about a third of that trumpet solo. It was a very humbling moment. Let's just say it was not pleasant to be backstage after the concert.

JN: Has anything like this happened since then?

AG: No. I make it a habit to show up to the hall an hour and a half early when there's a concert. First thing I do is go to my stand and make sure all the music there and in order. I make sure everyone knows to to mess with my music. That's basically my ritual for every concert.

JN: Rex Richardson told a story of how he made a mistake recently on a solo concerto, as well as early in his career how he messed up a solo. The difference being that experience taught him that mistakes happen, and life goes on. So if something like this were to happen to you today years later, what would your reaction be?

AG: Well, it's not quite accurate to call a story like that "traumatic." I suppose it can be if it happens more than once. It's just as much a habit for me as is brushing my teeth, combing my hair, etc. So if if something were to happen, it would be something beyond my control. The first time it happened, it was my fault. I just assumed that everything was in order.

Now I don't take any assumptions. As much as possible, I take my human error out of the equation. So if something happens, I know that I did everything I could to make sure it wouldn't happen.

JN: So many actions we take are reactions to stupidity from our youth.

AG: Absolutely!

JN: Let's talk about a moment when you felt like you could do no wrong. What does that feel like?

AG: We were playing a music festival and had just finished Tchaikovsky's 5th Symphony. Everything felt great. The orchestra was functioning like a high-end Ferrari. At the end of the concert, the audience was happy, the orchestra members were happy. The thing I felt the most was, "Mission accomplished." But not from a personal point of view, as in my own performance on the trumpet. It was from a musical point of view, as in, when this piece of music is done correctly, at the level Tchaikovsky wrote and intended to be performed, it will incite the reaction as such.

I've played Tchaik 5 many times and sometimes there are crickets after, sometimes there are rave reviews, and sometimes somewhere in between. But trumpet players love that symphony, and when that genius' work is done correctly, it has no way but to incite enthusiasm in the audience. And that moment it was, we did this.

Greg Spence is an Australian trumpeter, an author and the founder of Mystery to Mastery, an online platform dedicated to removing the mysteries of successful musical performance.

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY

 

THREE KEY TAKEAWAYS

Relearning new physical techniques can be very stressful psychologically because old habits are hard to break.

Just say "No." Know your limits and don't take gigs you're not prepared to do.

Expectation. Intention. Preparation.

GREG'S WORST MOMENT AS A PERFORMER

"One time I received a call from a friend of mine who was unable to play a gig which included Penny Lane with the famous piccolo trumpet solo. I said no, but he kept asking and I finally said I would do it. The music they gave me was written in the wrong key. I prepared as much as I could in a very short time. The band is playing it way too fast. Needless to say, I didn't play it very well. It was really embarrassing.

Lessons learned from this moment: Greg ended up playing the rest of the gig and was later praised for his professionalism under the circumstances.

QUOTABLE QUOTES

"If you expect to play beyond yourself on the gig, you're going to be disappointed. You'll have moments like that, but you can't plan on it."

As soon as the sound is in your mind, the conscious mind can't bombard you with the doubt and chatter. It can't focus on two things at once.

THE HOT SEAT

Q: It’s 5 minutes before you go on stage for an important performance… What are you doing?

A: Try to play a little bit. Sit down with a glass of water. Have a look at the book, going over tricky parts in my mind.

Q: What’s the best performance-related advice you've ever received?

A:  Focus on the music.

Q: Can you share one tip for our listeners to help deal with stage fright? (Physical, mental, etc.)

A: Prepare. Play in front of people as much as you possibly can.

Q: What’s a non-musical activity that contributes to your success as a musician?

A: Golf and bikram yoga.

Q: Imagine you’re on stage. It’s the end of the performance and the audience is on its feet, applauding. They don’t want any more and they don’t want any less. Everything is perfect. What have you just done?

A: Last December, I did a presentation at the Midwest Clinic called "Disspelling Brass Playing Myths." Everything went great. People loved it and really appreciated. I said everything I wanted to say in a confident and fun way. I played a little bit to demonstrate concepts but it was great. Everything went according to plan.

Roger is famous for having turned down a Pink Floyd gig. He's the founder of Freedom for Musicians, an online platform for musicians and artists to maximize the potential to monetize their musical skills.

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY

THREE KEY TAKEAWAYS

The perils of "youthful arrogance."

There's nothing more important to your performing career than your integrity.

For every failure, there's a moment of redemption.

ROGER'S WORST MOMENT AS A PERFORMER

"It was wrapped up in youthful arrogance. I had an audition in front of the brass musicians of the London Symphony for a scholarship sponsored by the LSO. I knew I had practiced it enough, although my teacher said differently. I had never rehearsed it with a pianist. AS it went from bad to worse, I was clamming up, my palms were becoming sweaty and I was looking right into the eyes of Maurice Murphy, one of my heroes on the trumpet.

"As we got to the slow section, Maurice walked up to me and said, 'I think we'll stop here.' I had serious issues with performance anxiety after that for several months."

QUOTABLE QUOTES

"I've had more fun sharing the story as to why I didn't play with Pink Floyd than the gig would have been."

"Prepare, Prepare, Prepare. The moment you think you're prepared, start preparing."

THE HOT SEAT

Q: It’s 5 minutes before you go on stage for an important performance… What are you doing?

A: Checking, checking, checking. My music, my trumpet, my valves, myself. I also visualize the performance beginning to end, and it's perfect.

Q: What’s the best performance-related advice you've ever received?

A:  Concentrate on the sound. If the sound is horrible, no one wants to hear you. Make it look easy.

Q: Can you share one tip for our listeners to help deal with stage fright? (Physical, mental, etc.)

A: Prepare, prepare, prepare. And when you think you've prepared, start preparing. The moment you think you've got it put together is when you're most prone to make mistakes.

Q: What’s a non-musical activity that contributes to your success as a musician?

A: Sport. Playing and watching. The discipline required to play sports can teach a lot to musicians.

Q: Imagine you’re on stage. It’s the end of the performance and the audience is on its feet, applauding. They don’t want any more and they don’t want any less. Everything is perfect. What have you just done?

A: I'm at Royal Albert Hall at the BBC Proms. I'm playing the Arutunian trumpet concerto in front of 3,000 people. It's gone stunningly well. All those people that were in that terrible audition years ago are looking at me, saying, "Well done, Roger."

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Andy Tichenor is a St. Louis based commercial and lead trumpet player, and just won the audition for principal trumpet with the MUNY, a local Broadway style theater in the St. Louis area.

JN: Andy, get us up to speed. What’s going on in your world?

AT: Well, I’ve been on a national tour of Dirty Dancing, a stage production of the movie we all know, for the last 2 years. After it’s over in 2 weeks, I’ll be back at home getting ready to take on the MUNY job. Basically ready to be off the road, and back at home gigging, teaching, etc.

JN: This podcast is about stories. To get us into the right frame of mind, I want to start the interview with what you consider to be one of your worst moments as a performer.

AT: Of course, we all have moments like that, but there’s one in particular that you could call a “teachable moment.” I was hired to play lead trumpet for a recreation of the Frank Sinatra, Count Basie show at the Sands Hotel in Vegas. It was a very iconic recording, kind of a match made in heaven with Sinatra and Basie. This is really well known music so I’ve played all these tunes many times in my life.

The circumstances around this gig were kind of sad. My father had just passed away a few months prior, a few months after having a massive stroke. I had been caring for him and that was really all I was doing. I thought that maybe this gig would be a good way to get going again as a performer after dealing with that for so long.

The problem is that I had barely touched the horn in going on 4 months. So to put it mildly, it didn’t go well. I did okay for maybe the first 15 minutes, but the show was very challenging physically. It’s Count Basie music, followed by a long set of Frank Sinatra’s music.

So, 15 minutes into the show, I’m completely shot physically. And to make matters worse, the other trumpet players in the section aren’t really up to the task either. I tried to pass one of the charts to the guy next to me, asking him to help me out, and he passed it right back to me. I had no help. It was a very lonely feeling. It got to the point where I was laying out, taking things down an octave. It was kind of embarrassing.

The teachable moment in all of this is no matter what’s going on in my life, I need to keep in touch with the horn. We all get busy with life, but I’ve made it a point to find any opportunity I have to do any kind of trumpet related activity I can. Even if it’s sitting at a red light, doing some kind of lip firmness exercises. Even a few minutes of mouthpiece buzzing.

It sounds so obvious. You take 4 months off the horn and try to jump back into a big show like that is a mistake. But the important thing is what I’ve learned from the experience. I do something related to trumpet every single day, even if it’s just a couple of minutes. So hopefully there’s some good that comes out of this, as unpleasant as it was.

JN: It seems to me like just the act of doing something every day won’t necessarily get you ready for a big gig like Sinatra and Basie, but it’s going to just keep your head in the game.

AT: I benefit greatly from just 20 minutes of practicing. I’m just that much better off down the road. It’s always better than nothing.

JN: So why wouldn’t those guys take the first part and help you out?

AT: I think there’s just a reputation that preceded me of being a strong player. That’s all well and good, until you legitimately need help.