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Jason is the host of the very successful Contrabass Conversations podcast.

Jason, what's your worst moment as a performer?

Sophomore year at Northwestern University. Played a recital including a piece that was very "chromatic." Meaning that intonation is very important and it's difficult to play in tune.

I just wasn't prepared to play that piece. Afterwards, I hid in the locker room until people had left.

Lesson learned: Put intonation at priority #1. If it's not in tune, who cares?

Key Takeaways

The audacity of youth, thinking we're invincible.

Pressure situations make people "fold" because of increased heart rate. The rhythm goes first with shallow breathing, tightening of the muscles, etc.

Learn to accept you'll have a physical reaction and don't let it affect your physiological state.

Interviewing bassists has helped Jason as a performer. Each interview is like a free lesson in performance.

Practicing with the long term goal in mind is a commonality among top bassists around the world.

Jason recommends you check out Time for Three!

Check out Jason's book, Winning the Audition!

The Hot Seat

It's 5 minutes before you go on stage for a performance. What are you doing? Breathing deeply, visualizing a successful performance.

What's the best performance advice you've ever received? Love and joy.

What can you share with people who suffer from stage fright? Start recording yourself. Develop a habit of recording yourself with no prior practice. That becomes your "floor."

What's a non-musical activity that contributes to your success as a musician? Staying physically active. I run, lift weights, etc.

It's the end of the performance. The audience is on its feet, giving you a standing ovation. They don't want any more, they don't want any less. Everything is just perfect. What have you just done? Played Beethoven 9 with the Iris Chamber Orchestra.

Wow! this is Jason's third appearance on the podcast!

Alexander Serio [send him mail] is a freelance trumpet player and teacher in the Philadelphia area. He is also the founder and director of Ictus International Music Competition, and innovative online music competition and the administrative director of the Nelly Berman School of Music where he serves on the trumpet faculty as well.

You can find him on the web at ictusmusic.com and alextrumpeter.com.

THREE KEY TAKEAWAYS

Trust your preparation! (You've heard this before and you'll hear it again

Classical trumpeter, James Ackley, is an internationally acclaimed trumpet solo artist, recording artist, pedagogue and author, with numerous appearances that have included orchestras, wind ensembles and chamber groups spanning the entire globe. Ackley has frequently performed as a recitalist throughout North America, South America, Europe, and Asia. On a tour through Venezuela, critics described him as "one of the best trumpet players in the world." The Hartford Courante described James as, "a true artist”, the Free Times called him “one of the nation’s top trumpeters”  and the American Record Guide proclaimed James as "absolutely amazing."  James Ackley is currently under Andes International Management as a concert soloist, chamber artist and clinician.

THREE KEY TAKEAWAYS

James is making a comeback to playing after a long layoff due to surgery. (Follow his progress at https://www.jamesackley.net/blog)

Listen to your body to know your limits as a player.

Extended time off due to surgery was very dispiriting.

JAMES' WORST MOMENT AS A PERFORMER

Master's student at Cleveland Institute. Had a terrible recital. Endurance level was at maybe 10%. Lesson learned: You have to rest as much as you play, take some time off the horn. Gigging around town, teaching at a local college.

LESSONS LEARNED FROM THIS MOMENT

Realized I needed to practice more intelligently, that I did have limits.

Needed to prioritize my life and practice.

Started thinking a lot more about my approach to practicing and performing.

QUOTABLE QUOTES

"Rest as much as you play."

"I was definitely vincible."

"I wish I had the courage to ask to do the recital again."

THE HOT SEAT

Q: It’s 5 minutes before you go on stage for an important performance… What are you doing?

A: It depends on the type of performance. I'll be hearing what I want to sound like, portraying what I want to sound like. I'm going over the Four T's: Tone, Time, Tuning, Touch.

Q: What’s the best performance-related advice you've ever received?

A: Charlie Schleuter once told me, "The trumpet is just not that difficult."

Q: Can you share one tip for our listeners to help deal with stage fright? (Physical, mental, etc.)

A: Visualize yourself performing as many times as possible. Preparation is of the utmost importance. You'll feel something, it's just a matter of what you do with it.

Q: What’s a non-musical activity that contributes to your success as a musician?

A: Martial Arts. It gives me confidence where I didn't have any when I was younger. It gives me confidence in myself, and makes me feel comfortable in my own skin. It allowed me to find meditation, how to control my mind, how to breathe better.

Q: Imagine you’re on stage. It’s the end of the performance and the audience is on its feet, applauding. They don’t want any more and they don’t want any less. Everything is perfect. What have you just done?

A: I played Mahler 3 with the Bogota Philharmonic. I played the post horn solo. I was the first solo bow. Then the conductor gave me a second bow and gave me the bouquet of flowers he had received. Biggest dream moment of my career, almost surreal.

Steve Leisring came to KU in 2003 after performing for 14 seasons with the Tenerife Symphony Orchestra, Canary Islands, Spain. As a member of the orchestra, he performed in major halls in Europe including London, Lisbon, Madrid, Barcelona, Seville, Segovia, Zaragoza, Valencia, etc.  He can be heard on more than 35 commercial CD’s on labels such as Deutche-Gramophone, Decca, and Auvidis-Valois.

THREE KEY TAKEAWAYS

People laughing during auditions aren't necessarily laughing at you.

College auditions are just experiences upon which you build experience.

Apply your experiences in your comfort zone to other performance situations that may not be as comfortable.

STEVE'S WORST MOMENT AS A PERFORMER

Was in an audition at North Texas University. Didn't realize the audition would have sight reading, which was not his strong suit. He struggled mightily during the audition and a couple of grad assistants started laughing during his audition. This led to a period of self-doubt, but made one of the jazz bands the next semester.

QUOTABLE QUOTES

"Everything I learn performing I take and apply to my students."

"I've always felt more comfortable playing in an ensemble than as a soloist."

"You never hear a jazz player have problems with a first entrance."

THE HOT SEAT

Q: It’s 5 minutes before you go on stage for an important performance… What are you doing?

A: Convincing myself I don't need to be nervous. Just be myself.

Q: What’s the best performance-related advice you've ever received?

A: "Give 90%." If you give 110%, the adrenaline will get you off-balance. If you give 90%, it's still great.

Q: Can you share one tip for our listeners to help deal with stage fright? (Physical, mental, etc.)

A: Just keep doing it. To get that confidence, you just need to be in that situation a lot. Find what makes you confident.

Q: What’s a non-musical activity that contributes to your success as a musician?

A: Athletics.

Q: Imagine you’re on stage. It’s the end of the performance and the audience is on its feet, applauding. They don’t want any more and they don’t want any less. Everything is perfect. What have you just done?

A: Performed at Tanglewood backing up Delphio Marsalis. Did his version of Fanfare for the Common Man. It was kind of a redeeming moment because a colleague I highly respected gave me a lot of praise for my performance.

Wayne du Maine is a New York based freelance trumpet player. He performs on Broadway, with the Metropolitan Opera and the Manhattan Brass Quintet.

KEY TAKEAWAYS

James Pandolfi's method of playing: keeping the air in the lungs, chest out, readily accessible to make short breaths.

Focusing on other things than practicing: family, house, conducting. Created a system to be able to take time off the trumpet and still perform at a high level.

WAYNE'S WORST MOMENT AS A PERFORMER

Went through a period of time (around 1995) where I had problems with endurance. I wasn't able to make it through gigs. I was a freelance player in NYC, so it was nerve wracking wondering whether or not I'd be able to play the gig.

Using Pandolfi's method, I can just focus on making a beautiful sound when I play.

PANDOLFI'S METHOD

Not breathing from the diaphragm.

Keeping it in the top of the lungs.

Breathing through the nose can be beneficial.

QUOTABLE QUOTES

"Every time I play the instrument, I focus on making a beautiful sound."

"Suddenly, playing music was effortless again. It gave me a lot of peace in my mind when performing."

"Even after all these years, people don't hire me because of that period where I struggled."

THE HOT SEAT

Q: It’s 5 minutes before you go on stage for an important performance… What are you doing?

A: Visualizing (a la Chris Gekker.) Have the music going on in your mind before you go on stage.

Q: What’s the best performance-related advice you've ever received?

A: Listen to as many recordings as possible. If you're playing an audition, have all the music going on in your brain while you play.

Q: Can you share one tip for our listeners to help deal with stage fright? (Physical, mental, etc.)

A: Be as prepared as possible. Stage fright comes from not having confidence in your preparation. Understand every note that everyone else has and everything going on around you.

 

Q: Imagine you’re on stage. It’s the end of the performance and the audience is on its feet, applauding. They don’t want any more and they don’t want any less. Everything is perfect. What have you just done?

A: I performed at Tanglewood when Leonard Bernstein conducted his second to last concert. The orchestra went all out and the audience applauded for a good 20 minutes afterwards.

It reminded me that I'm doing the right thing, and that the audience deserves a top-n0tch performance every time.

I'd also like to perform Shostakovich's 7th Symphony!

Johan de Meij is originally from Holland and now lives in upstate New York. He is famous for his Symphony No. 1, The Lord of the Rings and enjoys a busy career as a composer and conductor. He recently commissioned a piece titled, Felini.

JN: Johan, get us up to speed. What’s going on in your world?

JDM: I’ve been home for 9 weeks now because of a skiing accident where I broke my leg. So I’m just now recovering. It gives me a lot of time to write music, but no travelling, no guest conducting. I had to cancel some events to my regret, but it’s just bad luck.

The piece Felini you mentioned was written for alto sax, wind orchestra and circus band. It’s based off of the Italian filmmaker Felini. A lot of his movies have circus and clowns as a very important element to them. So the piece has a circus band is separate from the wind band so that they souhnd like they’re in a different world, and it really works quite well. It’s surprising for the audience as well. The circus band plays something very rowdy and loud, but the orchestra just keeps playing on stage. The alto sax soloist is not standing on the front of the stage as traditional. They’re more like an actor, moving around quite a bit. You have a chance to be really creative with it depending on the venue it’s being performed.

JN: So sobriety is not your goal with this piece.

JDM: No. (laughing)

JN: This podcast is about peak musical performance. And to get to the peak, you have to go through a few valleys. So let’s start out with what you consider to be one of your worst moments as a performer.

JDM: My worst moment as a player was as a member of the Amsterdam Wind Orchestra. We were doing a live radio broadcast for the Holland Festival. The composer was present and she wrote a piece for brass quartet. I was playing 2nd trombone. It was so difficult, there were a few things I just couldn’t play. So the performance arrived and I was so nervous. The piece started and my chops just weren’t working. There’s this big cadenza where I went to a high E. I didn’t make it because I wasn’t playing well so I just made something up. The conductor was looking over at me like, what are you doing? The composer comes up after the performance and actually didn’t notice that I screwed up.

Fortunately I have had very few really bad moments as a performer.

 

JN: Was Lord of the Rings your first major work?

JDM: Yes.

JN: Had you composed anything before that?

JDM: I had done some arrangements and one short original work for brass sextet, but it was my first one. A lot of people don’t believe me when I say that because it sounds pretty mature. It took me 4 years to write, and believe it or not, next year 2018 will be the 30th anniversary of its premier. It really changed my life in a profound way. It put me on the map as a composer. A year later I won a major award in the United States, which was crucial for the popularity of the piece.

As time goes on, it gets played more and more. It used to be that people would play just a movement or two, but a lot of bands are playing the entire piece.

JN: Was there a spike in popularity when the movies came out?

JDM: Not really a spike, but a bit of growth. But it’s incredible how it grows in popularity after all these years.

JN: I’m sure you’ve conducted it hundreds of times.

JDM: Yes, but I never get tired of it. Sometimes when people ask me to conduct it, I’ll suggest something else as an alternative that’s more recent. But if they want to do it, I don’t try to stop them.

JN: Do you still play trombone?

JDM: No. I stopped playing professionally when I moved to the U.S. in 2008.

Peyden Shelton is currently an active freelancer and educator in the Baltimore area, and newly appointed professor of trumpet at the University of Utah.

JN: Peyden, get us up to speed. What’s going on in your world?

PS: The past month has been super busy with travelling, doing gigs in the local area. I’m part of a new chamber ensemble. I can’t release too much info about it at the moment, but it’s going to be amazing. And of course getting ready for the big move to Salt Lake City later this summer.

JN: So this new ensemble is going to be in Utah?

PS: No, it will be comprised of teachers on the East Coast, from various universities. I’m going to be the furthest away, but we’re hoping my move will open more doors to opportunities all over the country. We’re really looking to take our performances into new doors that have not been explored yet.

JN: So you’ve been around the block a few times, you’ve got a lot of amazing things ahead in your future. But I want to start with what you consider to be one of your worst moments as a performer.

PS: I went to the University of Miami for my master’s degree and studied with Craig Morris. I can’t recommend that highly enough. But an academic environment is a place to learn. And trust me, I learned a lesson. I was part of the Henry Mancini orchestra, kind of a hybrid of jazz and classical. It was comprised of students at the U. So lo and behold I ended up being the principal trumpeter on the classical side. We had one particular gig where we were doing a hodge podge of Mancini medley’s.

As a student, you have moments where you don’t take your practice sessions as seriously as you should. You think, “I’ve played harder stuff before; I’ll be fine.” Well, this certain piece had a really nice piccolo trumpet featured right at the beginning of the piece.

Being the cocky young trumpet player I was, I decided, “I’ve got this.” I didn’t practice it all that much. But on the day of the performance, let’s just say I dropped the ball. This was in concert, in front of many huge donors of the school. It was a good learning experience for me to never take anything for granted. Always make sure you’re practicing things like you’re going to perform them.

JN: So this wasn’t one of those mistakes where you know it’s off and can play it off. It was pretty evident you had screwed it up.

PS: Yes. The looks from people in the orchestra, the terrified looks in the audience. It was a heavy learning experience. So since that time, you could say I’ve got my act together. Sometimes it’s good to fall on your face in situations like that. It puts things in perspective and is a good swift kick in the butt to make sure you’re taking care of your business.

JN: It’s a learning environment. So you can make a mistake and you’re not going to lose your job.

PS: Yes. Something I heard Bob Sullivan say is that even in an academic environment, if you’re getting paid in any regard, you must treat them like a job. If you’re getting a scholarship of some kind, you’re really getting paid to do the job. If you don’t do the job, in the real world you could be fired.

JN: You know, no one likes to tell these stories, but it’s important. I’ve had moments like that, every guest has had moments like that.

So let’s talk about a time when things go great. You feel on fire, as if nothing can go wrong.

PS: The most uplifting moment I can remember is stepping on stage during the national trumpet competition finals in 2014. It was a long road to get to that point, but it was the one moment I can remember thinking, “It doesn’t matter what happens.” It was a no-stress environment, really uplifting. I try to channel that into every situation as a performer.

Augie Haas is a lead trumpet player, most recently touring with Harry Connick, Jr.'s band.

JN: Augie, get us up to speed. What's going on in your world?

AH: Working on some new projects. Got a new CD in the works with my trio, and I wrote and illustrated a kids book that's being accompanied with music. I'm also working on a cookbook that's kind of paired with music.

JN: How do you pair a cookbook with music?

AH: I don't want to reveal too much before it's released, but it's basically pairing the perfect music with different entrees.

JN: Augie, you've been around the block. Harry Connick, Jr. doesn't hire just anyone to play lead trumpet for him. This podcast is about peak musical performance, so let's start with what you consider to be one of your worst moments as a performer.

 

AH: One time I was touring with Harry, and I wasn't feeling 100% on the trumpet, and I was also having a hard time hearing the rest of the band. So we came in on a shout section, and because I had a hard time hearing, I was 2 beats in front of everyone else. I played the entire section 2 beats ahead of the whole band.

I was reading your questions before this interview, and I'm not sure I like the word "fail" in a situation like this. I view it more of a negotiation. I decided this is what I heard and this is where I'm going to put this for better or worse. So this was a big one because it was still early touring with Harry and he's looking at me funny. But I owned it, and afterwards he came up to me and said, "Honestly, I thought the whole band was wrong and you were right."

So even though that moment was a failed performance moment, when you look at the big picture, you just have to remember it's music. At the end of the day, you do it because it's fun. If you think about that going in, it makes it a little bit less stressful. Of course, you want to play your best.

JN: So it wasn't one of those things where you know it's a mistake but can hide it. Everyone knows something is up.

AH: Yeah, you're playing to a crowd of 2,000. Harry attracts a different kind of audience. A few love him for doing When Harry Met Sally, but you also have a lot of great musicians in the audience. That's what makes it difficult. At the end of the day, people notice but they don't really care. You have to deal with your own criticism of yourself.

JN: At the end of the day, it's black dots on a piece of paper, and our job is to make people happy.

AH: I think what people do when they encounter failure in their performance is to make "the face." That's when you really fail. It's not your job to decide whether it's good or not. It's someone else's job. So when you make that face, it sends a message to the audience and it affects whether or not they actually enjoy it. You're putting out an energy that isn't positive.

I've made a lot of mistakes, but it's really about negotiating those mistakes. Don't give it away. Many times, people don't realize what has happened.

But "The Face" is when you've really failed as a performer.

JN: So how do you just own your mistake and acknowledge to those who did notice that you've owned it and want to make the best of it?

AH: I think the best response is to realize it's live performance. You can screw up but just stay in the moment. You can't get too far ahead. Your intent is the most important part. Am I being as musical as I can? So missing one note, or even playing an entire shout section 2 beats ahead, your intent is in the best place. No one got hurt, and you don't want it to affect your performance.

JN: Take us to a moment when things can't go wrong. Chops feel great, you feel on fire as a player.

Adrian Griffin is principal trumpet with the Monterrey Symphony Orchestra. He's also the author of Buzz to Brilliance.

JN: This podcast all about peak musical performance. And in order to reach the peak, you have to go through a few valleys. So let's start out with what you consider to be your worst moment as a performer.

AG: When I was new here in Mexico, we were playing a tune that is equivalent to the national Anthem in Mexico, called Juapango. It's programmed three quarters of the way through the program. The concert is going fine, I'm feeling a little tired but nothing unusual.

Juapango is famous for a trumpet and trombone duel in the middle of the piece. I've played it many times, but I'm still relatively new to the orchestra. So the trombone player does his thing, then I come in and it's going great. But then I turn the page and I realize that the next 3-4 pages are out of order.

I'm freaking out. I'm using the few measures of rest frantically looking for my music. I think I know it from memory, but I'm not willing to test it out in this moment. So nothing happens. The trombone player finishes his solo, it's my turn to come in and there's nothing. Trombone has his solo, and I'm still looking for my music.

Long story short is I played about a third of that trumpet solo. It was a very humbling moment. Let's just say it was not pleasant to be backstage after the concert.

JN: Has anything like this happened since then?

AG: No. I make it a habit to show up to the hall an hour and a half early when there's a concert. First thing I do is go to my stand and make sure all the music there and in order. I make sure everyone knows to to mess with my music. That's basically my ritual for every concert.

JN: Rex Richardson told a story of how he made a mistake recently on a solo concerto, as well as early in his career how he messed up a solo. The difference being that experience taught him that mistakes happen, and life goes on. So if something like this were to happen to you today years later, what would your reaction be?

AG: Well, it's not quite accurate to call a story like that "traumatic." I suppose it can be if it happens more than once. It's just as much a habit for me as is brushing my teeth, combing my hair, etc. So if if something were to happen, it would be something beyond my control. The first time it happened, it was my fault. I just assumed that everything was in order.

Now I don't take any assumptions. As much as possible, I take my human error out of the equation. So if something happens, I know that I did everything I could to make sure it wouldn't happen.

JN: So many actions we take are reactions to stupidity from our youth.

AG: Absolutely!

JN: Let's talk about a moment when you felt like you could do no wrong. What does that feel like?

AG: We were playing a music festival and had just finished Tchaikovsky's 5th Symphony. Everything felt great. The orchestra was functioning like a high-end Ferrari. At the end of the concert, the audience was happy, the orchestra members were happy. The thing I felt the most was, "Mission accomplished." But not from a personal point of view, as in my own performance on the trumpet. It was from a musical point of view, as in, when this piece of music is done correctly, at the level Tchaikovsky wrote and intended to be performed, it will incite the reaction as such.

I've played Tchaik 5 many times and sometimes there are crickets after, sometimes there are rave reviews, and sometimes somewhere in between. But trumpet players love that symphony, and when that genius' work is done correctly, it has no way but to incite enthusiasm in the audience. And that moment it was, we did this.

Harry Kim is based in Los Angeles where he actively performs and is currently on a short tour with Phil Collins and his band.

JN: Harry, get us up to speed. What's going on in your world?

HK: Well, if this is a secret, I can't tell anyone. (laughing)

I'm excited about this tour because we haven't toured since 2005. It's always fun, the music is terrific. Just been preparing for that and memorizing music. There's just nothing fun for me than performing really great music live.

JN: Is memorizing music a struggle for you?

HK: Yes. I happen to have one of those brains that deletes stuff when you don't need it. My partner Dan Fornero remembers stuff that I wrote 20 years ago. I don't have that kind of brain. It's not because I'm not interested, it's just that I'm ADD and I don't focus on certain things.

JN: This podcast is about peak performance for musicians, and obviously you've been around the block once or twice. So let's start out with what you consider to be one of your worst moments as a performer. A time when you expected to do well but fell short.

HK: I can think of a moment when I knew things were going to be bad. I had some dental problems in 1997. I was touring with Phil Collins and they were going to shoot a video. So I started out trying to play as well as I could, not playing scared, but knew it wasn't going to be great.

It ended up okay. It's all on video from one of Phil Collins' tour videos. I think it's called "Footloose in Paris" or something. I was cracking notes all over the place. The dental work hadn't gone as I thought and I didn't expect it to affect me as it did. I had to play purely by will. I had no feel for the trumpet. I put it up to my chops and it felt foreign.

 

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JN: What kind of dental work was it?

HK: When my wisdom teeth came in earlier in my life, the top ones came in sideways, pointing forward. They did some damage to the bone of the back molars. I ended up getting infections in the molars all the time. Long story short, in 97 I decided to have the molars pulled. After a few days, I tried to play trumpet and it didn't feel good. But I just thought it's because of the dental work, it would come back. But I never got a feel for the trumpet.

It took me about 3 years before I could play confidently, and about 7 years before I could perform well again.

So this video was right after the teeth were pulled. I wasn't confident playing within the staff, let alone high G's and what not. It was sheer will that I got the notes out. So there were a lot of cracked notes in there. It's one of those times in your life where you just have to do what you have to.

JN: It sounds to me like you thought you were taking care of a problem, but you were just creating more problems. 

HK: Yes. It took me awhile to realize what I was doing differently. I remember this happened around the fall of 97, then January 98 I started playing from scratch. What I realized is that when I play the trumpet, my tongue kind of expands sideways. It leans against my back teeth. So when those molars were taken out, my tongue moved forward to lean against the next teeth.

This was unconscious. I didn't detect it. It took several years to figure this out. Basically my tongue was so far forward it was cutting off the air, which caused a whole chain reaction of other variables.

When I discovered that was the problem, I needed to relearn where to put my tongue while...