For the past four decades, Amy Knoles has pushed the boundaries of percussion and contemporary music in general. As the executive director of California E.A.R. unit, she has championed the work of living composers worldwide. She serves as a mentor to bright, young musicians at CalArts. As a composer, she stretches the limits of sound and light. She's also worked in the rock world, with everyone from Flea to Zappa. She and Joe talk about their native Milwaukee, empathy, embracing lack of control, and how much crying is healthy.