Since the dawn of what has come to be colloquially referred to as the modern UFO Phenomenon, two very divergent aspects have emerged to create a situation that appears—on the face of it—utterly irreconcilable. On the one hand, this phenomenon is supported by evidence gathered in what we call “the real world”, that is to say “physical reality”. This evidence includes radar returns, electromagnetic effects, soil traces, multiple, independent witness accounts, biological effects on witnesses, photographic and video evidence, and more.

On the other hand, the testimony of those who have apparently interacted with this Phenomenon suggests an experience that defies our very understanding of what can be “real”. These elements include: precognition of future events, memories from lifetimes beyond this one—including as forms not exclusively human—the encountering of spaces that seem much larger from within than without, movement through the environment sometimes with the body, and sometimes without, etc.

Another key component that arises not just in the Contact phenomenon, but also in near-death experiences, is the uncanny sense that what we call “the real world” is somehow less “real” than the modes of existence or states of being in which these so-called “non-ordinary” experiences occur. And let us be clear: if we are to take these accounts at face-value, it would appear that what we have long referred to as “the real world” is actually subsidiary to one or more subsuming realms, and that even what we refer to as “the self” is actually a truncated and fractional expression of a much more dynamic, multifaceted identity that exists outside of spacetime altogether.

Speaking of space and time, also particularly pertinent here is the paradoxical and perplexing way that certain notions expressed in what are referred to as the archetypes, and in astrology, seem to comport—with a confounding degree of precision—with the unfolding of our actual experience of reality, giving rise to prickly questions about determinism and free will. Indeed, these apparently pre-existing patterns of manifestation—that point to an underlying symbolic geometry—call into question the very naturalistic assumptions that are at the core of physicalism, the present dominant paradigm widely ascribed to within Western civilization.

All of this so-called “high strangeness” converges to point to a deeper truth that is truly astonishing: namely that the experiences of our lives are not arising either as real or symbolic (as in our long-standing distinction between the reality of waking vs. dream states), but rather as—simultaneously—both. And yes, not surprisingly, this has profound implications regarding the nature of the self, and the nature of existence. These are precisely the paradigm-shattering, mind-expanding matters that we’ll seek to engage with in this, the 115th episode of the Point of Convergence podcast.