In this episode, Kelly and Jay revisit the groundbreaking work of John Keel, one of the most influential and controversial figures in UFO history. Known for Operation Trojan Horse and The Mothman Prophecies, Keel pushed beyond the limits of conventional ufology to propose ideas that remain provocative more than 50 years later.

They explore both the human story of Keel—the journalist, traveler, and relentless investigator—and the radical frameworks he left behind for making sense of high strangeness. Along the way, Kelly and Jay connect Keel’s legacy to today’s debates, government narratives, and their own upcoming fieldwork.

Highlights include:

Keel’s unique approach: using news clipping services and personal witness interviews to identify patterns across thousands of reports.

His skepticism toward the extraterrestrial hypothesis and why he suspected UFOs were closer to home than another planet.

The “paraphysical hypothesis” and Keel’s concept of the super-spectrum, where UFOs and entities may be part of a hidden ecology overlapping our own.

Insights into window areas—locations where high strangeness clusters—and how this connects to modern hotspots.

The role of storytelling, control mechanisms, and myth-making in shaping how humanity perceives the phenomenon.

Why Keel’s outsider perspective continues to challenge both researchers and experiencers today.

Music for Cosmosis is by Michael Rubino. The show is brought to you by SpectreVision Radio.

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Resources & References

Operation Trojan Horse, John Keel:https://www.amazon.com/Operation-Trojan-Horse-Classic-Breakthrough/dp/1938398033/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0

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TIMESTAMPS

05:54 John Keel's Background and Early Career

09:38 Keel's Investigative Approach and Findings

13:40 Skepticism and the Extraterrestrial Hypothesis

20:08 Patterns in UFO Sightings and Flaps

33:38 Regional UFO Flaps and Media Coverage

35:19 Contemporary Ufology and Hotspots

37:23 Patterns in UFO Sightings

40:11 The Paraphysical Hypothesis

43:37 Control Mechanisms and Technological Inspiration

59:07 Color Spectrum and UFO Phenomena

01:09:54 Field Work Inspired by John Keel

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In this episode, Kelly Chase sits down with Dana Kippel—author of A New Force: Plasma, Consciousness, and the New Human Potential—to dive into her vision of plasma as a multidimensional, living intelligence that carries both consciousness and information. Dana opens up about her path as an experiencer, the role of downloads and intuition in her work, and why embracing the feminine side of plasma is key to unlocking human potential.

We talk about what it means to navigate reality through both science and spirit, how vulnerability can become a superpower, and why so many people are resonating with her message online. This conversation is raw, inspiring, and full of insights that reframe what it means to live in a participatory cosmos.

Music for Cosmosis is by Michael Rubino. The show is brought to you by SpectreVision Radio.

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Resources & References

Dana Kippel, A New Force: Plasma, Consciousness, and the New Human Potential https://a.co/d/2Vq0kLx

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TIMESTAMPS

05:27 Dana's Early Experiences with the Anomalous

08:31 The Impact of Trauma on Anomalous Experiences

12:39 Navigating Social Media and Personal Growth

19:08 Dana's Journey into Plasma Research

24:18 The Role of Women in Plasma Studies

32:47 The Hero's Journey and Authenticity

35:20 Sharing Personal Struggles and Authenticity

36:05 The Illusion of Enlightenment

38:10 Understanding Plasma: Science and Beyond

39:04 Plasma as a Multidimensional Substance

56:26 Exploring the Divine Feminine and Plasma

01:04:10 Future Projects and Final Thoughts

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In this episode of Cosmosis, Kelly Chase and Jay Christopher King are joined by philosopher James Madden, author of Unidentified Flying Hyperobject: UFOs, Philosophy, and the End of the World. Jim has been part of this journey with us from the very beginning, appearing on The UFO Rabbit Hole podcast and in our docuseries Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality.

Together, we take a hard look at the state of ufology and how belief, ideology, and language shape the way we think about the phenomenon. We ask tough questions: Has ufology become a kind of religion? What does it mean to practice good “epistemic hygiene” in a field so vulnerable to disinformation and self-deception? How can we avoid falling into old patterns of certainty while still honoring the mystery?

This is a conversation about curiosity, responsibility, and the courage to sit with the unknown. Whether you’re new to the field or a long-time experiencer, Jim’s insights cut through the noise and remind us that sometimes the most important thing isn’t finding the answer—but learning to ask better questions.

Music for Cosmosis is by Michael Rubino. The show is brought to you by SpectreVision Radio.

✨ Join the conversation and go deeper:

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Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality – now streaming on Amazon, Apple TV, and multiple platforms: Cosmosis.Media

Resources & References

James D. Madden, Unidentified Flying Hyperobject: UFOs, Philosophy, and the End of the World: https://a.co/d/4F2Tpcl

Watch Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality:

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TIMESTAMPS

04:57 The Evolution of Ufology: A Personal Perspective

07:37 Ufology as a Religion: Belief and Skepticism

14:15 The Hero's Journey in Ufology

29:59 Challenges in Ufology: Secrecy and Belonging

34:43 Navigating Blind Spots in Public Discourse

36:32 The Illusion of Ease in Public Engagement

37:42 The Trap of Daily Grind and Outrage Cycles

40:02 Questioning the UFO Narrative

44:13 Skepticism and Authority in the UFO Community

46:33 The Role of Media and Public Perception

54:02 Positive Aspects of Ufology

56:15 The Power of Unanswerable Questions

59:05 Maintaining Intellectual Sovereignty

01:04:31 Concluding Thoughts and Gratitude

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In this episode, Jay sits down with author of Time, Myth and Matter, LD Deutsch, for a wide-ranging conversation about time, myth, consciousness, and the instability of reality itself. LD Deutsch shares her journey from precognitive dreams to the cutting edge of consciousness studies, weaving together threads of Jungian psychology, mythology, physics, and technology.

Together, they explore:

How myth and physics act as complementary ways of “reading” reality.

The strange synchronicity between the I Ching and the birth of binary code.

Why the Simulation Hypothesis functions more like a creation myth than a scientific theory.

The paradox of time—eternalism versus presentism—and what it means for precognition.

The role of synchronicity, archetypes, and trickster phenomena at the boundaries of the unknown.

LD Deutsch’s insights point to a deeper, underlying order where psyche and matter are inseparably linked—and where the stories we tell become the architectures of reality itself.

✨ Join the conversation and go deeper:

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Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality – now streaming on Amazon, Apple TV, and multiple platforms: Cosmosis.Media

Music for Cosmosis is by Michael Rubino. The show is brought to you by SpectreVision Radio.

Resources & References

LD Deutsch, Time, Myth and Matter: https://www.sacredbonesrecords.com/products/sbb022-ld-deutsch-time-myth-and-matter?srsltid=AfmBOoow94a8kN69LM0qXghhuVun28QTBmv0mlBE6r6FjxzZKHEeOiKF

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TIMESTAMPS

04:23 L.D.'s Journey and Inspirations

13:38 Exploring the I Ching and Binary Code

23:55 Techno-Mythology and the Simulation Hypothesis

44:35 The Paradox of Simulated Realities

45:41 Big Bang and Creation Myths

46:50 Eternalism vs. Presentism

47:40 Three Types of Time

50:35 The Block Universe Model

54:00 Reconciling Physics and Neuroscience

58:32 Precognition and Consciousness

01:03:39 Synchronicities and Consciousness

01:10:05 Archetypes and the Unknown

01:16:00 New Myths for a New Era

01:25:19 Future Research Directions

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What if 99% of the universe holds the key to understanding UFOs, paranormal phenomena, and even consciousness itself?

In this episode, Kelly Chase and Jay Christopher King dive deep into the plasma hypothesis—a paradigm-shifting idea that plasma, the fourth state of matter, may act as a substrate for intelligence. Fresh from the University of Exeter workshop on plasma cosmology (with thinkers like Robert Temple, Jeffrey Kripal, Bernard Carr, and Nick Cook), Kelly unpacks the conversations that are reshaping the frontier of science and anomalous studies.

Together, Kelly and Jay explore:

What plasma actually is and why it makes up nearly all of the visible universe.

Robert Temple’s groundbreaking book A New Science of Heaven and its implications for UFOs and consciousness studies.

Why orb encounters and plasma-like phenomena may be central to the experiencer narrative.

The limits of materialist explanations—and why plasma may not explain everything.

How process philosophy and transpersonal psychology open new frameworks for exploring intelligent plasma.

The overlap between orbs, UFOs, cryptids, and the land of the dead.

The risks of overreach and the need to resist turning plasma into the next “quantum” catch-all.

From the cutting edge of astrophysics to the lived realities of experiencers, this conversation wrestles with the biggest question of all: could plasma be the hidden medium of mind, matter, and mystery?

✨ Join the conversation and go deeper:

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Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality – now streaming on Amazon, Apple TV, and multiple platforms: Cosmosis.Media
Music for Cosmosis is by Michael Rubino. The show is brought to you by SpectreVision Radio.

Resources & References

Robert Temple, A New Science of Heaven: https://a.co/d/9cIc6Ec

Watch Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality:

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TIMESTAMPS

01:51 Diving into Plasma Cosmology

03:45 Understanding Plasma: The Fourth State of Matter

06:55 The Potential of Plasma as a Substrate for Intelligence

09:53 Speculations on Plasma and Anomalous Phenomena

14:14 Challenges in Defining Plasma Intelligence

20:26 Exploring Plasma's Physical and Non-Physical Interactions

27:49 Philosophical Perspectives on Plasma Intelligence

31:53 Exploring Paranormal Phenomena

32:40 Interdimensional Theories and Consciousness

34:44 Plasma and Human Connection

35:24 Historical UFO Cases

38:35 Life, Death, and Plasma Phenomena

48:23 Orbs and UFOs: A Deeper Look

56:40 Future Research and Exploration

58:55 Closing Remarks and Community Engagement

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In this episode, Kelly shares her recent paper Unfurling the Myth, presented at the University of Exeter during a workshop on Process Philosophy, Plasma Cosmology, and Transpersonal Psychology. This gathering brought together scientists, philosophers, and researchers—including Robert Temple, Jeffrey Kripal, Bernard Carr, Massimo Teodorani, and Nick Cook—to explore the possibility that plasma, the fourth state of matter, could serve as a substrate for non-biological intelligence.

Kelly’s paper argues that the UFO phenomenon is not just an anomaly in the sky but a relational event—an encounter that engages the psyche through the deep structures of narrative. Rather than delivering answers, the phenomenon generates mystery, catalyzing transformation on both personal and cultural levels.

Drawing on thinkers like Robert Temple, Jacques Vallée, and Eric Davis, as well as research in narrative cognition and the psychology of curiosity, Kelly explores how UFOs may function as mythic initiators: destabilizing our categories of knowledge, activating curiosity, and compelling us to tell new stories. These stories are not just interpretations but mechanisms of reality-making—reshaping our understanding of self, world, and cosmos.

Plasma cosmology and the possibility of plasma-based intelligence

The UFO as relational event, not just object or craft

Narrative as a generative interface between psyche and field

How curiosity and myth catalyze transformation

The “Call to Adventure” in experiencer narratives

Cultural and personal shifts documented in experiencer research

The UFO as evolutionary function, seeding new myths and meanings

Whether you’re new to these ideas or steeped in the mysteries of UFOs, this episode invites you to consider the phenomenon not as something to solve, but as something to participate in—a story in which we are all co-creators.

Resources

Robert Temple, A New Science of Heaven

Jacques Vallée & Eric Davis, Incommensurability, Orthodoxy, and the Physics of High Strangeness

George Loewenstein, The Psychology of Curiosity

Will Storr, The Science of Storytelling

Stanislav & Christina Grof, Spiritual Emergency

Hernandez et al., Beyond UFOs

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TIMESTAMPS

00:38 Exploring Plasma Cosmology

01:22 The Significance of Plasma-Based Intelligence

02:20 Introduction to the Paper: Unfurling the Myth

03:25 Understanding the UFO Phenomenon

04:51 The Role of Narrative in UFO Encounters

06:45 Rethinking the UFO

11:25 Curiosity and the Mythic Initiation

15:30 Awakening the Hero Within

19:57 Remaking the World Through UFO Encounters

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Fan favorite, James Madden, has a brand new project with his brilliant co-host Jared Zimmerer called The Great Dangerous Books Podcast. Check out this episode to catch the vibe of the show, and if you like what you hear, be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode. 

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In this episode, Jim and Jared discuss the complexities of the UFO phenomenon with special guest Kelly Chase, focusing on Jacques Vallee's influential work 'Messengers of Deception.' They explore themes of manipulation, the unconscious, and the power of images in shaping belief systems. The conversation delves into the psychological impact of UFO experiences, the dangers of ontological shock, and the need for critical thinking in the field of ufology. Throughout, they emphasize the importance of self-awareness and the challenges of integrating extraordinary experiences into one's worldview.

TIMESTAMPS

01:28 Introducing Kelly Chase and Her Work

03:09 Exploring Jacques Vallee's 'Messengers of Deception'

05:17 Vallee's Perspective on UFOs and Manipulation

09:47 The Reliability of Jacques Vallee

12:05 The Nature of Reality and Ideological Structures

15:04 The Impact of Ontological Shock

18:45 The Role of the Unconscious in UFO Phenomena

22:08 The Dangers of Manipulation and Belief Systems

27:44 Connecting Modernity and Public Manipulation

32:56 The Internet's Oppenheimer: Valet's Perspective

35:32 The Power of Images and Human Manipulation

39:57 Gnosticism and the Quest for Knowledge

44:05 The Nature of UFO Phenomena and Human Belief

47:35 The Intersection of Science and Mythology

52:11 Critical Inquiry and the Nature of Belief

55:32 The Joy of Inquiry and the Dangers of Ufology

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In this episode of Cosmosis, Jay Christopher King sits down with historian and esoteric scholar Mitch Horowitz for a wide-ranging conversation about magic, consciousness, and the anomalous. He is the author of numerous books Occult America, The Miracle Club, and Practical Magick, Mitch is a singular voice who bridges the academy, pop culture, and the esoteric underground with rare clarity and rigor.

Together, they explore:

This episode offers a powerful invitation to take magic seriously—not as superstition, but as a methodology of intention, experimentation, and meaning-making. Whether you’re a seasoned practitioner or an experiencer just starting to make sense of your reality, Mitch’s grounded, historically informed approach opens new doors.

🎧 Listen if you’re curious about:

More From Mitch Horowitz

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TIMESTAMPS
​
04:55 Diving into the Conversation with Mitch Horowitz
05:20 Exploring the Intersection of Magic and Ufology
23:01 Mitch Horowitz's Journey into Magic
26:51 Ethics and Practical Magic
37:08 Introduction to Sil Magic
37:51 Origins and Practice of Sil Magic
39:30 The Role of Climax in Sil Magic
41:26 Anarchic Magic and Deity Petition
43:55 Exploring Sex Magic
48:48 Sex Transmutation Techniques
52:19 Backwards Causation and Time
01:06:10 Parapsychology and JB Rhine's Experiments
01:11:19 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

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