For fans of the old school deep dives from The UFO Rabbit Hole, this episode is for you. 

For many, the biggest challenge in engaging with UFOs, NHIs, and the anomalous isn’t a lack of evidence, but the nature of the evidence itself. The best data we have comes from experiencers—those who have directly encountered the unknown. But their stories are often so strange, so far outside of our frameworks, that even the most open-minded struggle with how to approach them.

In this episode, Kelly Chase and Jay Christopher King take on this challenge head-on, exploring:

🔹 Why experiencer testimony is the most important—and most misunderstood—source of insight into the phenomenon
🔹 The impact of memory, trauma, and perception on anomalous encounters
🔹 How bias, belief systems, and cultural stigma shape the UFO narrative
🔹 The role of consciousness in contact phenomena—and why reality may be stranger than we think
🔹 How to listen to experiencer narratives with both discernment and radical openness

We also examine cutting-edge models from Jacques Vallée, Eric Davis, Diana Pasulka, Jeffrey Kripal, James Madden, and others, to uncover new ways of understanding the impossible.

This episode isn’t just about listening—it’s about learning to perceive the phenomenon in an entirely new way.

———————————————————————
Thank you to Magic Mind for sponsoring this episode. 

Try Magic Mind

If you’re like to try Magic Mind, go to https://www.magicmind.com/cosmosis and use code COSMOSIS20 to get you up to 48% off your first subscription for the next 10 days or 20% off for a one-time purchase. 

Check out the science behind Magic Mind: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1J7lHKMS_LqwWNvAIujShBs4IbCzsgOM_/view?pli=1
———————————————————————
 

Mentioned in This Episode
📖 American Cosmic by Diana Walsh Pasulka – [https://a.co/d/fYxuZ2m]
📖 Unidentified Flying Hyper Object by James Madden – [https://a.co/d/iVOtkYA]
📖 The Case Against Reality by Donald Hoffman – [https://a.co/d/4yKbKNa]
📖 Hyperobjects: Philosophy and Ecology After the End of the World by Timothy Morton – [https://a.co/d/i8u1qaz]
📖 Incommensurability, Orthodoxy, and the Physics of High Strangeness by Jacques Vallée & Eric Davis – [Read here: https://www.academia.edu/36788970/Incommensurability_Orthodoxy_and_the_Physics_of_High_Strangeness_A_six_layer_model_for_Anomalous_Phenomena]
🎙️ The Experiencer Group – Support at [https://tegmembers.com]

Support The Experiencer Group:
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TIMESTAMPS
03:23 The Challenge of UFO Testimonies
04:35 The Nature of Extraordinary Evidence
06:31 The Complexity of Experiencer Narratives
13:08 The Role of Trauma and Memory
14:29 The Experiencer Group and Its Mission
15:41 Subjectivity and Inconsistencies in Reports
19:01 The Bigger Picture of Anomalous Experiences
21:40 Philosophical Perspectives on Truth and Reality
25:45 Quantum Mechanics and Anomalous Experiences
28:29 Frameworks for Understanding the Phenomenon
29:57 The Concept of Redaction in UFO Narratives
32:44 The Nature of Redaction in UFO Testimonies
34:05 Navigating Redaction in Experiencer Testimonies
37:05 The Six-Layer Model of Anomalous Phenomena
44:16 The Filter Thesis and Anomalous Experiences
48:53 Trauma, Mental Health, and Substance Abuse in Experiencers
53:55 Hyperobjects and the Nature of UFO Phenomena
56:55 Semiotics and the Interpretation of Anomalous Encounters
01:00:44 Conclusion: Embracing the Unknown

Watch the full video interview on YouTube: https://youtu.be/kF8yImSnX1Y

In this gripping continuation of our conversation with legendary author and experiencer Whitley Strieber, we venture even deeper into the nature of the Visitors—what they are, how they relate to time, and what it truly means to engage with an intelligence that exists just beyond the limits of human comprehension.

This episode challenges the boundaries of our understanding as Whitley explores:
🔹 The role of human consciousness in shaping contact phenomena
🔹 Why the living and the dead must work together to reach the next stage of evolution
🔹 The hidden reality of telepathic communication and its profound implications
🔹 How social engineering and stigma have shaped the UFO narrative—and why that’s changing
🔹 The military’s secret interest in experiencers and the possible manipulation of contact phenomena

Whitley also shares deeply personal insights into his own experiences, the afterlife, and the unseen forces at play in our reality. This is a conversation that demands reflection, openness, and a willingness to embrace the unknown.

📖 The Fourth Mind by Whitley Strieber – https://a.co/d/3Tj8G2i
📚 Them by Whitley Strieber – https://a.co/d/gqYziUQ
🎥 Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality – Watch at Cosmosis.Media
🎙️ Dreamland Podcast – Hosted by Whitley Strieber at UnknownCountry.com

Watch Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality:
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TIMESTAMPS
00:00 Introduction 
03:46 Clip from Cosmosis: UFOs and a New Reality
05:45 The Role of Human Consciousness in Encounters
06:26 Historical and Cultural Context of Encounters
11:31 The Importance of Telepathy
12:31 Challenges in Understanding and Acceptance
13:51 Navigating Disinformation and Manipulation
27:15 Personal Experiences and Integration
33:02 The Stigma and Scientific Resistance
53:18 Final Thoughts and Future Directions

See the full interview on YouTube here: https://youtu.be/s4IDqWGlWBU

In this thought-provoking conversation, legendary author and experiencer Whitley Strieber joins Kelly and Jay to discuss his groundbreaking new book, The Fourth Mind. Whitley explores the anatomy, intelligence, and consciousness of the beings he refers to as "the Visitors"—entities many associate with the Greys. He shares profound insights into their nature, their relationship to time, and why their presence on Earth may be more intertwined with us than we realize.

This episode takes a deep dive into:

🔹 How our brains struggle to process encounters with the unknown

🔹 The concept of the "fourth mind" and why it's missing in us but not in them

🔹 The Visitors' relationship to time and their desperate need to reconnect with the present moment

🔹 The risks and rewards of telepathic contact with non-human intelligence

🔹 The role of experiencers in shaping our collective understanding of these phenomena

Whitley also opens up about his lifelong experiences, the mysterious nature of the Visitors, and the deeper implications of our interactions with them. Prepare for a conversation that will challenge your perceptions of reality.

Mentioned in This Episode

📖 The Fourth Mind by Whitley Strieber –https://a.co/d/3Tj8G2i

📚 Them by Whitley Strieber – https://a.co/d/gqYziUQ

🎥 Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality – Watch at Cosmosis.Media

🎙️ Dreamland Podcast – Hosted by Whitley Strieber at UnknownCountry.com

💫 Stay Tuned for Part 2 Next Week!

Watch Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality:
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TIMESTAMPS:

00:00 Introduction and Welcome

01:43 Introducing Whitley Strieber

06:16 Exploring the Fourth Mind Concept

09:57 The Visitors and Their Nature

14:34 Communion and Its Significance

19:57 Differences and Similarities with the Grays

28:01 The Role of the Visitors in Human History

33:07 Exploring Subjectivity and Objectivity in Phenomena

37:01 Meditation and Contact Work

38:44 The Nature of the Greys

40:28 Experiencing the Visitors

47:37 The Importance of Telepathy

01:00:16 The Urgency of the Fourth Mind

01:03:10 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

See the full interview on YouTube here: https://youtu.be/EStI_rnPDRU

In this episode of Cosmosis, Kelly Chase and Jay Christopher King welcome back experiencer Courtney Leffall, whose story was featured in Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality. Together, they explore the deeply personal and societal implications of anomalous experiences, the role of disclosure, and how we integrate these experiences into our lives. Courtney shares his thoughts on government transparency, the connection between UFOs and ancestral spirits, and the need for interdisciplinary collaboration in understanding these phenomena.

This episode of Cosmosis offers a deeply personal and intellectual dive into the experiencer phenomenon, government disclosure, and the spiritual implications of UFO contact. Courtney Leffall provides a unique and necessary perspective, bridging religious, cultural, and experiencer narratives to offer a more holistic view of what may be unfolding.

Listeners are left with a challenge: Can we break down our own biases and expand the conversation to include perspectives we may have previously dismissed?

Watch Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality:
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Contact Us: [email protected]

Timestamps & Key Topics:

00:00:00 – Introduction: Future Human Hypothesis & Consciousness 00:01:12 – Welcome & Podcast Background
00:03:25 – Courtney’s UFO Encounter: Intelligent Control
00:05:37 – What Disclosure Means: Government Transparency & Secrecy 00:08:14 – Trust & Testimony: Do We Need Government Validation? 00:14:09 – High Strangeness: Beyond UFO Sightings
00:18:42 – Breaking Silos: Scientists, Experiencers & Philosophers 00:23:56 – Integrating Anomalous Experiences: Self-Acceptance 00:29:33 – UFOs & The Dead: Ancestral Spirits & Contact
00:38:21 – CE5 & Summoning: The Risks of Contact
00:45:45 – Are UFOs Demonic? Faith & The Phenomenon
00:51:18 – Race, Culture & The UFO Community
00:58:06 – Inclusivity: Expanding the Conversation
01:08:44 – What the Phenomenon Tells Us About Humanity
01:11:29 – Final Thoughts & Call to Action

In the first episode of Cosmosis, we’re bringing you one of the most compelling experiencer stories we’ve ever encountered. Courtney Leffall had never told his story publicly before it appeared in our docuseries Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality, and once you hear it, you’ll understand why. His experiences don’t fit neatly into any single category—crossing the boundaries between psi phenomena, precognition, UFO encounters, messages from dead ancestors, and even the eerie mystery of cattle mutilations.

There’s a hidden thread connecting these phenomena—one that the mainstream conversation about UFOs often ignores. Courtney’s story is a rare and striking example of how deep that thread runs and how impossible it is to untangle. His experiences force us to confront an unsettling question: What if the reality we think we know is just the smallest fraction of what actually exists?

Watch Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality:
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All good things must come to an end. And this podcast, and the international community that has sprung up around it, has been a very good thing. It’s been one of the best things in my life. Which is why it’s hard to actually say the words that this episode will be the last episode of The UFO Rabbit Hole. 

But before you panic—this isn’t the end. It’s just the beginning.

Tune in to find out about the future of the podcast, and to say good-bye to The UFO Rabbit Hole.

See Karl Nell's Sol Talk

Watch Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality

The docuseries that I've spent the last year working on, Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality, drops today. It would mean the world to me if you would check it out. It's currently available in the U.S., Canada, Great Britain, and Australia. We're working on more international options, but it's an expensive and complicated process, so thank you for your patience and understanding as we work through that. 

Watch Cosmosis on Apple TV

Watch Cosmosis on Amazon Prime

Watch Cosmosis on YouTube

In the long-awaited part two of the Through the Looking Glass series, host Kelly Chase is back to tell the bizarre story of the events following her anomalous experience from part one, and how a string of unlikely events brought her to the story of an experiencer with strange psi abilities named Tom Matte. Tom developed what he describes as an interactive holographic overlay on his reality which he calls Upsight in the aftermath of dramatic mental breakdown. More than a decade later, he is still seeking answers about Upsight which he says allows him to access non-local information in fascinating ways and even communicate with NHIs. 

After a string of unbelievable synchronicities, Kelly found that her story had become inextricably tied to Tom’s, leading her on a journey of inquiry about the nature of anomalous experiences, mental illness, addiction, and more. In this episode she dives deep into this strange tale and the insights and revelations that it spurred. 

*****************************

Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality Drops on Apple TV on December 30, 2024.
Watch the Cosmosis Trailer

*****************************

The Institute of Noetic Sciences
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Follow Tom Matte
Jesus Goes To Hollywood: A Memoir of Madness
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Mentioned in this Episode
Olof Rockner
Illustrations of Upsight by Olof Rockner

• Jaws Poster
• Greys Remote Viewing a Town
• Other Example
• Other Example
• Other Example
• Other Example
• Other Example

Tom’s Paper About Dark Matter & Dark Energy

Spiritual Emergency: When Personal Transformation Becomes a Crisis

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Hey everyone! I just wanted to drop this quick bonus episode to let you guys know about another really exciting UFO docuseries coming out this Sunday, October 27th on MGM+ called Beyond: UFOs and the Unknown. This series from JJ Abrams’ production company Bad Robot features Whitley Strieber, Jeff Kripal, Garry Nolan, Leslie Kean, Chris Mellon, Jay Christopher King, Tim Gallaudet, Mitch Horowitz, and many more. And hey, guess what? I’m in it, too. It looks like it’s shaping up to be a fantastic show, and it is an absolute honor to be involved in this project next to so many people that I admire. 

In this episode, I sat down with Co-Executive Producer, Kevin Lincoln to hear more about the show and about the process that he and his team went through to bring this to life. I’ve been very impressed with Kevin and his team and how far they were willing to go to chase this story down all the strange rabbit holes that you find on this path. Kevin is a very intelligent and extremely well-read guy, and this was a fun conversation that made me even more excited to watch the show. 
 

—Kelly

 

In this episode of the UFO Rabbit Hole Podcast, host Kelly Chase returns from a hiatus with a brand new conversation with James Madden. The episode explores themes of psychoanalysis, epistemic vulnerability, and the psychological motivations behind belief systems in ufology. Together, Kelly and Jim ponder the deeper implications of mind control, trauma, and the symbolic nature of our cultural fascination with UFOs, aiming to navigate the complex landscape of human inquiry and understanding.

BECOME A PATRON
Patrons get lots of great perks like early and ad-free episodes, access to the private The UFO Rabbit Hole Discord server, and twice-monthly Patron Zoom calls with Kelly Chase.

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TIMESTAMPS
00:00 Welcome Back to the UFO Rabbit Hole Podcast

01:02 Upcoming Documentary and Personal Transformation

02:27 A New Direction for the Podcast

02:44 Conversation with Dr. James Madden

04:35 Dr. Madden's Recent Work and Psychoanalysis

06:36 Freudian Insights and Human Motivation

10:37 Epistemic Vulnerability and Belief Systems

15:07 Challenges in Ufology and Disclosure

22:20 Language, Belief, and Mind Control

25:41 Reflecting on Personal Beliefs

26:26 Freud's Death Drive and Trauma Reenactment

29:52 The Addictive Nature of Unfulfilled Promises

31:08 Comparing Ufology to Sports Fandom

33:18 Personal Struggles and Finding Meaning in Danger

35:21 Cultural and Political Outrage Cycles

40:28 Symbolism in Dreams and Collective Psyche

44:29 The Unending Human Project and Self-Destruction

46:29 Concluding Thoughts and Gratitude