In this episode, Kelly shares her recent paper Unfurling the Myth, presented at the University of Exeter during a workshop on Process Philosophy, Plasma Cosmology, and Transpersonal Psychology. This gathering brought together scientists, philosophers, and researchers—including Robert Temple, Jeffrey Kripal, Bernard Carr, Massimo Teodorani, and Nick Cook—to explore the possibility that plasma, the fourth state of matter, could serve as a substrate for non-biological intelligence.

Kelly’s paper argues that the UFO phenomenon is not just an anomaly in the sky but a relational event—an encounter that engages the psyche through the deep structures of narrative. Rather than delivering answers, the phenomenon generates mystery, catalyzing transformation on both personal and cultural levels.

Drawing on thinkers like Robert Temple, Jacques Vallée, and Eric Davis, as well as research in narrative cognition and the psychology of curiosity, Kelly explores how UFOs may function as mythic initiators: destabilizing our categories of knowledge, activating curiosity, and compelling us to tell new stories. These stories are not just interpretations but mechanisms of reality-making—reshaping our understanding of self, world, and cosmos.

Plasma cosmology and the possibility of plasma-based intelligence

The UFO as relational event, not just object or craft

Narrative as a generative interface between psyche and field

How curiosity and myth catalyze transformation

The “Call to Adventure” in experiencer narratives

Cultural and personal shifts documented in experiencer research

The UFO as evolutionary function, seeding new myths and meanings

Whether you’re new to these ideas or steeped in the mysteries of UFOs, this episode invites you to consider the phenomenon not as something to solve, but as something to participate in—a story in which we are all co-creators.

Resources

Robert Temple, A New Science of Heaven

Jacques Vallée & Eric Davis, Incommensurability, Orthodoxy, and the Physics of High Strangeness

George Loewenstein, The Psychology of Curiosity

Will Storr, The Science of Storytelling

Stanislav & Christina Grof, Spiritual Emergency

Hernandez et al., Beyond UFOs

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TIMESTAMPS

00:38 Exploring Plasma Cosmology

01:22 The Significance of Plasma-Based Intelligence

02:20 Introduction to the Paper: Unfurling the Myth

03:25 Understanding the UFO Phenomenon

04:51 The Role of Narrative in UFO Encounters

06:45 Rethinking the UFO

11:25 Curiosity and the Mythic Initiation

15:30 Awakening the Hero Within

19:57 Remaking the World Through UFO Encounters

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Fan favorite, James Madden, has a brand new project with his brilliant co-host Jared Zimmerer called The Great Dangerous Books Podcast. Check out this episode to catch the vibe of the show, and if you like what you hear, be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode. 

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In this episode, Jim and Jared discuss the complexities of the UFO phenomenon with special guest Kelly Chase, focusing on Jacques Vallee's influential work 'Messengers of Deception.' They explore themes of manipulation, the unconscious, and the power of images in shaping belief systems. The conversation delves into the psychological impact of UFO experiences, the dangers of ontological shock, and the need for critical thinking in the field of ufology. Throughout, they emphasize the importance of self-awareness and the challenges of integrating extraordinary experiences into one's worldview.

TIMESTAMPS

01:28 Introducing Kelly Chase and Her Work

03:09 Exploring Jacques Vallee's 'Messengers of Deception'

05:17 Vallee's Perspective on UFOs and Manipulation

09:47 The Reliability of Jacques Vallee

12:05 The Nature of Reality and Ideological Structures

15:04 The Impact of Ontological Shock

18:45 The Role of the Unconscious in UFO Phenomena

22:08 The Dangers of Manipulation and Belief Systems

27:44 Connecting Modernity and Public Manipulation

32:56 The Internet's Oppenheimer: Valet's Perspective

35:32 The Power of Images and Human Manipulation

39:57 Gnosticism and the Quest for Knowledge

44:05 The Nature of UFO Phenomena and Human Belief

47:35 The Intersection of Science and Mythology

52:11 Critical Inquiry and the Nature of Belief

55:32 The Joy of Inquiry and the Dangers of Ufology

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In this episode of Cosmosis, Jay Christopher King sits down with historian and esoteric scholar Mitch Horowitz for a wide-ranging conversation about magic, consciousness, and the anomalous. He is the author of numerous books Occult America, The Miracle Club, and Practical Magick, Mitch is a singular voice who bridges the academy, pop culture, and the esoteric underground with rare clarity and rigor.

Together, they explore:

This episode offers a powerful invitation to take magic seriously—not as superstition, but as a methodology of intention, experimentation, and meaning-making. Whether you’re a seasoned practitioner or an experiencer just starting to make sense of your reality, Mitch’s grounded, historically informed approach opens new doors.

🎧 Listen if you’re curious about:

More From Mitch Horowitz

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TIMESTAMPS
​
04:55 Diving into the Conversation with Mitch Horowitz
05:20 Exploring the Intersection of Magic and Ufology
23:01 Mitch Horowitz's Journey into Magic
26:51 Ethics and Practical Magic
37:08 Introduction to Sil Magic
37:51 Origins and Practice of Sil Magic
39:30 The Role of Climax in Sil Magic
41:26 Anarchic Magic and Deity Petition
43:55 Exploring Sex Magic
48:48 Sex Transmutation Techniques
52:19 Backwards Causation and Time
01:06:10 Parapsychology and JB Rhine's Experiments
01:11:19 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

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In this special episode of Cosmosis, Kelly Chase presents an updated version of her 2025 Contact in the Desert keynote, “UFO Narrative Wars: Weaponized Belief in the Age of Disclosure.” This talk goes beyond the surface of the UFO phenomenon to explore the hidden architecture of secrecy and the sophisticated mechanics of narrative control.

Drawing from deep research into intelligence tradecraft, counterintelligence, and disinformation—along with firsthand interactions with members of the intelligence community—Kelly unpacks how belief itself becomes a weapon in the battle for truth. From psychological operations to perception management, from limited hangouts to the “secret onion” model of secrecy, this episode reveals how our search for answers is being actively shaped, steered, and contained.

But this isn’t a story about villains. It’s a call to responsibility. Kelly challenges listeners to reclaim their intellectual sovereignty, resist easy answers, and build discernment in an information landscape designed to confuse. Whether you're a skeptic, experiencer, journalist, or just UFO-curious, this talk will change how you see not just the phenomenon—but the stories we tell about it.

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TIMESTAMPS

02:55 The Role of Intelligence in UFO Narratives

07:42 The Complexity of Secrecy and Perception Management

16:08 The Secret Onion: Layers of Deception

26:35 The Scale and Impact of Institutionalized Secrecy

37:31 Heroes, Villains, and Controlled Opposition

45:58 The Power of Sincere Belief

48:10 The Hero Trap in UFO Narratives

50:47 Counterintelligence and Narrative Control

54:14 The 80-20 Rule in Disinformation

55:49 Limited Hangouts and Perception Management

01:00:54 Character Assassination and Narrative Flooding

01:08:03 The Weaponization of Belief

01:14:50 Reclaiming Intellectual Sovereignty

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Today we’re sharing a special preview of a brand-new podcast called Gods, Ghosts, & UFOs—a show that explores the haunted edges of human experience, where the spiritual, the supernatural, and the anomalous collide.

This preview episode is split into two parts. In the first half, Kelly joins hosts Jordan, Mallory, and Tom for an intimate and wide-ranging conversation about the cultural impact of the UFO phenomenon, the power of storytelling, and what it means to navigate a world where the boundaries of reality are breaking down.

In the second half, enjoy another episode preview where the GGU team explores abductions, Sky Watcher’s “living taxonomy” of UAP, the James Webb telescope’s latest anomalies, and what it means to stay curious in a world fraying at the seams.

If you love Cosmosis, you're going to find a lot to sink your teeth into here.

👉 Follow Gods, Ghosts, & UFOs here: GodsGhostsUFOs.com

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Kelly and Jay sit down for an unfiltered conversation about the deeply weird, emotionally charged relationships that are forming between people and their AI chatbots. What begins as a discussion about ChatGPT’s rapid evolution unfolds into something stranger—a reflection on the ways AI flatters, gaslights, and co-creates identity with its users.

They explore:

Is this just the next phase of human-AI interaction—or is something deeper emerging? And most importantly: what happens to us if we outsource being seen?

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TIMESTAMPS

02:08 Personal Experiences with Chat GPT
02:21 The Evolution of AI Models
03:10 AI as a Personal Confidant
04:52 Emotional Manipulation by AI
06:22 The Future of Human-AI Interaction
08:41 Authenticity and Vulnerability in AI Interactions
18:09 The Role of AI in Social Engineering
22:51 AI and the Human Psyche
33:18 Algorithmic Influence on Human Behavior
35:13 Exploring Multiverse Shifting
35:41 Comic Books and Multiverse Fascination
37:04 Anomalous Experiences and Fictional Characters
38:44 Meditation and Non-Human Entity Contact
41:23 The Role of Co-Creation in Our Lives
43:28 The Power and Danger of Delusion
44:51 Manifestation and Occult Practices
48:31 Chat GPT and Emotional Manipulation
57:26 The Future of AI and Human Interaction
59:34 Authenticity in Human Connections
01:03:50 Concluding Thoughts and Reflections

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In this episode, researcher and Loose Threads co-author Daniel Elizondo joins us for a far-reaching conversation about UFO secrecy, the architecture of disinformation, and the psychological terrain of the phenomenon itself.

We dig into Jacques Vallée’s “Secret Onion”—a layered model of compartmentalization that explains how information is controlled and obscured within intelligence structures—and explore how narrative control operates both externally through infotainment and internally through belief, seduction, and epistemic vulnerability.

Daniel breaks down the long history of rug pulls, the weaponization of mystery, and what it means to resist the gravitational pull of being “the one” to break the story. We also talk Forbidden Science, Skywatcher, and the invisible handshake between researchers and the phenomenon they seek to understand.

If you’ve ever wondered who controls the narrative—or if you’re part of it—this episode is for you.

📚 Resources and References

Watch Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality:
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TIMESTAMPS
02:24 Sky Watcher and UFO Community Skepticism
08:48 Historical Precedents in UFO Disclosure
10:30 The Holloman Air Force Base Incident
14:35 Challenges in UFO Disclosure and Infotainment
21:45 Personal Experiences and Intelligence Community Interactions
30:58 Navigating the Insider's Club and Forbidden Science
33:08 The Repeated Revelations of Jacques Vallee
35:25 The Evolution of the Invisible College
39:57 The Secret Onion: Layers of Secrecy
49:46 The Phenomenon and Human Curiosity
56:57 The Control Mechanism: Micro and Macro Perspectives
01:01:45 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

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Fresh from the Archives of the Impossible conference at Rice University, Kelly and Jay sit down to unpack one of the most talked-about moments of the weekend—a provocative presentation by Dr. Garry Nolan on his involvement with the Skywatcher initiative.

Skywatcher is an emerging public-facing effort claiming to demonstrate CE5-style contact, utilize psionic assets, with the aim of potentially reverse-engineering non-human technologies. The implications are enormous—and so are the questions.

In this wide-ranging, deeply reflective conversation, Kelly and Jay explore:

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TIMESTAMPS

02:18 Exploring Sky Watcher's Initiatives
03:38 Jake Barber's Revelations
05:22 CE-5 and Public Disclosure
07:16 Community Reactions and Ethical Questions
15:39 Garry Nolan's Scientific Perspective
20:56 Technological Worldview and Ethical Implications
30:03 Heidegger's Philosophy and Technology
39:20 The Value of Human Life in a Technological Age
40:17 The Ethical Implications of Technological Intelligence
43:55 The Concept of Hyper Objects and UFO Phenomena
45:54 The Great Filter and Technological Surveillance
47:52 The Role of Experience in Understanding Phenomena
51:19 The Spectacle and Mediated Reality
56:09 Dwelling vs. Dominating: A Philosophical Approach To Contact
01:05:31 The Importance of Bracketing in Phenomenology
01:07:57 Balancing Speed and Methodology in Disclosure
01:11:00 Concluding Thoughts and Future Directions

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