In this episode, researcher and Loose Threads co-author Daniel Elizondo joins us for a far-reaching conversation about UFO secrecy, the architecture of disinformation, and the psychological terrain of the phenomenon itself.

We dig into Jacques Vallée’s “Secret Onion”—a layered model of compartmentalization that explains how information is controlled and obscured within intelligence structures—and explore how narrative control operates both externally through infotainment and internally through belief, seduction, and epistemic vulnerability.

Daniel breaks down the long history of rug pulls, the weaponization of mystery, and what it means to resist the gravitational pull of being “the one” to break the story. We also talk Forbidden Science, Skywatcher, and the invisible handshake between researchers and the phenomenon they seek to understand.

If you’ve ever wondered who controls the narrative—or if you’re part of it—this episode is for you.

📚 Resources and References

• Loose Threads by Daniel Elizondo and the Hermetic Penetrator
• Forbidden Science 6: Scattered Castles by Jacques Vallée
• UFOs: Past, Present, and Future by Robert Emenegger

Watch Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality:
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TIMESTAMPS
02:24 Sky Watcher and UFO Community Skepticism
08:48 Historical Precedents in UFO Disclosure
10:30 The Holloman Air Force Base Incident
14:35 Challenges in UFO Disclosure and Infotainment
21:45 Personal Experiences and Intelligence Community Interactions
30:58 Navigating the Insider's Club and Forbidden Science
33:08 The Repeated Revelations of Jacques Vallee
35:25 The Evolution of the Invisible College
39:57 The Secret Onion: Layers of Secrecy
49:46 The Phenomenon and Human Curiosity
56:57 The Control Mechanism: Micro and Macro Perspectives
01:01:45 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Fresh from the Archives of the Impossible conference at Rice University, Kelly and Jay sit down to unpack one of the most talked-about moments of the weekend—a provocative presentation by Dr. Garry Nolan on his involvement with the Skywatcher initiative.

Skywatcher is an emerging public-facing effort claiming to demonstrate CE5-style contact, utilize psionic assets, with the aim of potentially reverse-engineering non-human technologies. The implications are enormous—and so are the questions.

In this wide-ranging, deeply reflective conversation, Kelly and Jay explore:

• The strange and rapid emergence of Skywatcher and the implications for the disclosure movement
• The increasingly blurred lines between whistleblower testimony, media spectacle, and operational theater
• The question of who’s leading the charge into direct contact with non-human intelligences—and why
• The need to balance the objectives of science and venture capital against humanitarian, ethical, and philosophical questions in our quest for contact—and why that will almost certainly not happen.
• The potential cost of accelerating contact without asking the deeper metaphysical, spiritual, and cultural questions

Watch Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality:
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TIMESTAMPS

02:18 Exploring Sky Watcher's Initiatives
03:38 Jake Barber's Revelations
05:22 CE-5 and Public Disclosure
07:16 Community Reactions and Ethical Questions
15:39 Garry Nolan's Scientific Perspective
20:56 Technological Worldview and Ethical Implications
30:03 Heidegger's Philosophy and Technology
39:20 The Value of Human Life in a Technological Age
40:17 The Ethical Implications of Technological Intelligence
43:55 The Concept of Hyper Objects and UFO Phenomena
45:54 The Great Filter and Technological Surveillance
47:52 The Role of Experience in Understanding Phenomena
51:19 The Spectacle and Mediated Reality
56:09 Dwelling vs. Dominating: A Philosophical Approach To Contact
01:05:31 The Importance of Bracketing in Phenomenology
01:07:57 Balancing Speed and Methodology in Disclosure
01:11:00 Concluding Thoughts and Future Directions

In this mind-bending episode of Cosmosis, Kelly Chase and Jay Christopher King take you to the frontlines of one of the most disorienting—and revealing—aspects of the UFO phenomenon: time.

From the baffling 1977 disappearance of Corporal Armando Valdés in Chile, to the unnerving time anomalies reported by abductees like Lynda Jones, this episode explores the unnerving possibility that the phenomenon isn’t just moving through space—but manipulating time itself.

We dive deep into the emerging science of time as an emergent property, explore the implications of the Extratempestrial Model with insights from Dr. Michael P. Masters, and examine the evidence for time loops, missing time, reality edits, and the infamous Mandela Effect. Drawing from the latest physics, groundbreaking experiencer data, and real-world cases, this episode reframes UFO encounters not as visits from “out there,” but as incursions from “elsewhen.”

Are non-human intelligences using time as a tool, a language—or even a weapon? Could we be caught in a war for the timeline itself? And if so… who is writing the story of our future?

Reality may not be what it seems. And time might not be on anyone’s side.

📚 Resources and references for deeper exploration

• The Extratempestrial Model by Michael P. Masters: https://a.co/d/eM10tZx
• Time Loops: Precognition, Retrocausation, and the Unconscious by Eric Wargo: https://a.co/d/eFi3rtx
• Flying Saucer to the Center of Your Mind by John Keel: https://a.co/d/8TxNV0g
• FREE Experiencer Survey Beyond UFOs: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/326151576_A_Study_on_Reported_Contact_with_Non-Human_Intelligence_Associated_with_Unidentified_Aerial_Phenomena

Watch Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality:
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TIMESTAMPS

00:00 Mysterious Encounter in the Atacama Desert
03:25 Introduction to Time Anomalies
05:00 The Nature of Time
09:06 Einstein's Theory and the Block Universe
10:35 Quantum Mechanics and Time
13:24 Implications for Anomalous Experiences
14:18 Lynda Jones' Encounter
19:21 The Extratempestrial Model
21:13 Time Travel Possibilities
24:54 Time Anomalies in Encounters
27:10 The Silence of Encounters
29:31 The Mystery of Missing Time
30:19 Burns and Radiation
32:43 Impossible Movements: The Physics of UFOs
35:19 The Greys: Future Humans or Extraterrestrials?
39:22 Longitudinal Studies and Genetic Programs
42:14 The Men in Black: Government Agents or Something Else?
47:46 The Mandela Effect: Glitches in the Timeline
52:06 Time Loops and Precognition
56:22 Synchronicity and the Shape of Our Stories
57:51 Conclusion: The Deeper Reality of UFOs and Time

Watch the full video on YouTube: https://youtu.be/JfwIlrLVyLs

In this episode of Cosmosis, we share a never-before-released talk by Dr. Diana Walsh Pasulka, recorded live at the Inquire Anomalous conference in New York City. Diana—religious studies professor and author of American Cosmic and Encounters—takes us on an astonishing journey through her research into Catholic mysticism, Vatican archives, and modern UFO contact experiences.

From levitating saints and the mysterious Woman in Blue to redacted mystical narratives and the ontological shock of encountering the impossible, Diana reveals surprising links between ancient religious experiences and contemporary reports of contact with non-human intelligences. She also speaks candidly about her own transformation, the eerie resonances between the sacred and the anomalous, and her collaboration with figures like Tyler D. and Dr. Garry Nolan on the frontier of space, consciousness, and belief.

This episode includes the full live Q&A with Diana—where she responds to insightful (and sometimes wild) audience questions about redaction, religious symbolism, and whether spiritual devotion might offer protection from malevolent entities.

🔗 Learn more about Diana’s work and online courses: https://dwpasulka.com

Watch Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality:
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TIMESTAMPS
06:10 Exploring Ascent Narratives and UFOs
08:37 Investigating Vatican Archives and Levitation
12:28 Comparing Historical and Modern Phenomena
21:40 Theresa of Avila's Angel Event
28:42 Synchronicities and Childhood Beliefs
29:39 Meeting Edward Carlos: An Experiencer's Story
31:10 The Process of Redaction
32:54 Historical Context and Space Programs
35:30 St. Francis of Assisi's Angel Experience
42:50 Q&A Session
53:15 Closing Remarks and Resources

For fans of the old school deep dives from The UFO Rabbit Hole, this episode is for you. 

For many, the biggest challenge in engaging with UFOs, NHIs, and the anomalous isn’t a lack of evidence, but the nature of the evidence itself. The best data we have comes from experiencers—those who have directly encountered the unknown. But their stories are often so strange, so far outside of our frameworks, that even the most open-minded struggle with how to approach them.

In this episode, Kelly Chase and Jay Christopher King take on this challenge head-on, exploring:

🔹 Why experiencer testimony is the most important—and most misunderstood—source of insight into the phenomenon
🔹 The impact of memory, trauma, and perception on anomalous encounters
🔹 How bias, belief systems, and cultural stigma shape the UFO narrative
🔹 The role of consciousness in contact phenomena—and why reality may be stranger than we think
🔹 How to listen to experiencer narratives with both discernment and radical openness

We also examine cutting-edge models from Jacques Vallée, Eric Davis, Diana Pasulka, Jeffrey Kripal, James Madden, and others, to uncover new ways of understanding the impossible.

This episode isn’t just about listening—it’s about learning to perceive the phenomenon in an entirely new way.

———————————————————————
Thank you to Magic Mind for sponsoring this episode. 

Try Magic Mind

If you’re like to try Magic Mind, go to https://www.magicmind.com/cosmosis and use code COSMOSIS20 to get you up to 48% off your first subscription for the next 10 days or 20% off for a one-time purchase. 

Check out the science behind Magic Mind: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1J7lHKMS_LqwWNvAIujShBs4IbCzsgOM_/view?pli=1
———————————————————————
 

Mentioned in This Episode
📖 American Cosmic by Diana Walsh Pasulka – [https://a.co/d/fYxuZ2m]
📖 Unidentified Flying Hyper Object by James Madden – [https://a.co/d/iVOtkYA]
📖 The Case Against Reality by Donald Hoffman – [https://a.co/d/4yKbKNa]
📖 Hyperobjects: Philosophy and Ecology After the End of the World by Timothy Morton – [https://a.co/d/i8u1qaz]
📖 Incommensurability, Orthodoxy, and the Physics of High Strangeness by Jacques Vallée & Eric Davis – [Read here: https://www.academia.edu/36788970/Incommensurability_Orthodoxy_and_the_Physics_of_High_Strangeness_A_six_layer_model_for_Anomalous_Phenomena]
🎙️ The Experiencer Group – Support at [https://tegmembers.com]

Support The Experiencer Group:
https://www.paypal.com/donate/?hosted_button_id=TBPJNDVY9QJFU

Watch Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality:
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TIMESTAMPS
03:23 The Challenge of UFO Testimonies
04:35 The Nature of Extraordinary Evidence
06:31 The Complexity of Experiencer Narratives
13:08 The Role of Trauma and Memory
14:29 The Experiencer Group and Its Mission
15:41 Subjectivity and Inconsistencies in Reports
19:01 The Bigger Picture of Anomalous Experiences
21:40 Philosophical Perspectives on Truth and Reality
25:45 Quantum Mechanics and Anomalous Experiences
28:29 Frameworks for Understanding the Phenomenon
29:57 The Concept of Redaction in UFO Narratives
32:44 The Nature of Redaction in UFO Testimonies
34:05 Navigating Redaction in Experiencer Testimonies
37:05 The Six-Layer Model of Anomalous Phenomena
44:16 The Filter Thesis and Anomalous Experiences
48:53 Trauma, Mental Health, and Substance Abuse in Experiencers
53:55 Hyperobjects and the Nature of UFO Phenomena
56:55 Semiotics and the Interpretation of Anomalous Encounters
01:00:44 Conclusion: Embracing the Unknown

Watch the full video interview on YouTube: https://youtu.be/kF8yImSnX1Y

In this gripping continuation of our conversation with legendary author and experiencer Whitley Strieber, we venture even deeper into the nature of the Visitors—what they are, how they relate to time, and what it truly means to engage with an intelligence that exists just beyond the limits of human comprehension.

This episode challenges the boundaries of our understanding as Whitley explores:
🔹 The role of human consciousness in shaping contact phenomena
🔹 Why the living and the dead must work together to reach the next stage of evolution
🔹 The hidden reality of telepathic communication and its profound implications
🔹 How social engineering and stigma have shaped the UFO narrative—and why that’s changing
🔹 The military’s secret interest in experiencers and the possible manipulation of contact phenomena

Whitley also shares deeply personal insights into his own experiences, the afterlife, and the unseen forces at play in our reality. This is a conversation that demands reflection, openness, and a willingness to embrace the unknown.

📖 The Fourth Mind by Whitley Strieber – https://a.co/d/3Tj8G2i
📚 Them by Whitley Strieber – https://a.co/d/gqYziUQ
🎥 Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality – Watch at Cosmosis.Media
🎙️ Dreamland Podcast – Hosted by Whitley Strieber at UnknownCountry.com

Watch Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality:
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TIMESTAMPS
00:00 Introduction 
03:46 Clip from Cosmosis: UFOs and a New Reality
05:45 The Role of Human Consciousness in Encounters
06:26 Historical and Cultural Context of Encounters
11:31 The Importance of Telepathy
12:31 Challenges in Understanding and Acceptance
13:51 Navigating Disinformation and Manipulation
27:15 Personal Experiences and Integration
33:02 The Stigma and Scientific Resistance
53:18 Final Thoughts and Future Directions

See the full interview on YouTube here: https://youtu.be/s4IDqWGlWBU

In this thought-provoking conversation, legendary author and experiencer Whitley Strieber joins Kelly and Jay to discuss his groundbreaking new book, The Fourth Mind. Whitley explores the anatomy, intelligence, and consciousness of the beings he refers to as "the Visitors"—entities many associate with the Greys. He shares profound insights into their nature, their relationship to time, and why their presence on Earth may be more intertwined with us than we realize.

This episode takes a deep dive into:

🔹 How our brains struggle to process encounters with the unknown

🔹 The concept of the "fourth mind" and why it's missing in us but not in them

🔹 The Visitors' relationship to time and their desperate need to reconnect with the present moment

🔹 The risks and rewards of telepathic contact with non-human intelligence

🔹 The role of experiencers in shaping our collective understanding of these phenomena

Whitley also opens up about his lifelong experiences, the mysterious nature of the Visitors, and the deeper implications of our interactions with them. Prepare for a conversation that will challenge your perceptions of reality.

Mentioned in This Episode

📖 The Fourth Mind by Whitley Strieber –https://a.co/d/3Tj8G2i

📚 Them by Whitley Strieber – https://a.co/d/gqYziUQ

🎥 Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality – Watch at Cosmosis.Media

🎙️ Dreamland Podcast – Hosted by Whitley Strieber at UnknownCountry.com

💫 Stay Tuned for Part 2 Next Week!

Watch Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality:
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Contact Us:
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TIMESTAMPS:

00:00 Introduction and Welcome

01:43 Introducing Whitley Strieber

06:16 Exploring the Fourth Mind Concept

09:57 The Visitors and Their Nature

14:34 Communion and Its Significance

19:57 Differences and Similarities with the Grays

28:01 The Role of the Visitors in Human History

33:07 Exploring Subjectivity and Objectivity in Phenomena

37:01 Meditation and Contact Work

38:44 The Nature of the Greys

40:28 Experiencing the Visitors

47:37 The Importance of Telepathy

01:00:16 The Urgency of the Fourth Mind

01:03:10 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

See the full interview on YouTube here: https://youtu.be/EStI_rnPDRU

In this episode of Cosmosis, Kelly Chase and Jay Christopher King welcome back experiencer Courtney Leffall, whose story was featured in Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality. Together, they explore the deeply personal and societal implications of anomalous experiences, the role of disclosure, and how we integrate these experiences into our lives. Courtney shares his thoughts on government transparency, the connection between UFOs and ancestral spirits, and the need for interdisciplinary collaboration in understanding these phenomena.

This episode of Cosmosis offers a deeply personal and intellectual dive into the experiencer phenomenon, government disclosure, and the spiritual implications of UFO contact. Courtney Leffall provides a unique and necessary perspective, bridging religious, cultural, and experiencer narratives to offer a more holistic view of what may be unfolding.

Listeners are left with a challenge: Can we break down our own biases and expand the conversation to include perspectives we may have previously dismissed?

Watch Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality:
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Contact Us: [email protected]

Timestamps & Key Topics:

00:00:00 – Introduction: Future Human Hypothesis & Consciousness 00:01:12 – Welcome & Podcast Background
00:03:25 – Courtney’s UFO Encounter: Intelligent Control
00:05:37 – What Disclosure Means: Government Transparency & Secrecy 00:08:14 – Trust & Testimony: Do We Need Government Validation? 00:14:09 – High Strangeness: Beyond UFO Sightings
00:18:42 – Breaking Silos: Scientists, Experiencers & Philosophers 00:23:56 – Integrating Anomalous Experiences: Self-Acceptance 00:29:33 – UFOs & The Dead: Ancestral Spirits & Contact
00:38:21 – CE5 & Summoning: The Risks of Contact
00:45:45 – Are UFOs Demonic? Faith & The Phenomenon
00:51:18 – Race, Culture & The UFO Community
00:58:06 – Inclusivity: Expanding the Conversation
01:08:44 – What the Phenomenon Tells Us About Humanity
01:11:29 – Final Thoughts & Call to Action

In the first episode of Cosmosis, we’re bringing you one of the most compelling experiencer stories we’ve ever encountered. Courtney Leffall had never told his story publicly before it appeared in our docuseries Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality, and once you hear it, you’ll understand why. His experiences don’t fit neatly into any single category—crossing the boundaries between psi phenomena, precognition, UFO encounters, messages from dead ancestors, and even the eerie mystery of cattle mutilations.

There’s a hidden thread connecting these phenomena—one that the mainstream conversation about UFOs often ignores. Courtney’s story is a rare and striking example of how deep that thread runs and how impossible it is to untangle. His experiences force us to confront an unsettling question: What if the reality we think we know is just the smallest fraction of what actually exists?

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All good things must come to an end. And this podcast, and the international community that has sprung up around it, has been a very good thing. It’s been one of the best things in my life. Which is why it’s hard to actually say the words that this episode will be the last episode of The UFO Rabbit Hole. 

But before you panic—this isn’t the end. It’s just the beginning.

Tune in to find out about the future of the podcast, and to say good-bye to The UFO Rabbit Hole.

See Karl Nell's Sol Talk

Watch Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality