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This week on the show, Allan and I are going to be showing you a very interesting interview we did talking about using FreeBSD to drive
“One thing I learned during my travels between OSs: consistency is everything.
Most operating systems seem to, at least, keep a consistent interface between themselves and binaries / applications. They do this by keeping consistent APIs (Application Programming Interfaces) and ABIs (Application Binary Interfaces). If you take a binary from a really old version of Linux and run or build it on a brand-spanking new install of Linux, it will likely Just Work™. This is great for applications and developers of applications. Vendors can build binaries for distribution and worry less about their product working when it gets out in the wild (sure this binary built in 2016 will run on RedHat AS2.1!!).“
“This inconsistency seems to have come to be when Linux started getting wireless support. For some reason someone (vendors, maybe?) decided that ifconfig wasn’t a good place to let users interact with their wireless device. Maybe they felt their device was special? Maybe there were technical reasons? The bottom line is, someone decided to create a new utility to manage a wireless device… and then another one came along… pretty soon there was iwconfig(8), iw(8), ifconfig(8), some funky thing that let windows drivers interface with Linux.. and one called ip(8) I am sure there are others I am forgetting, but I prefer to forget. I have moved onto greener pastures and the knowledge of these programs no longer serves me.”
“OpenBSD won the showdown. It was the most complete, simple, and coherent system. The documentation was thorough, the code was easy to follow
“So yesterday I spent the day setting up a new firewall at home here, based off of this BSD Now tutorial. Having set up a couple of OpenBSD routers before, either based on old laptops, bulky old power-sucking desktops or completely over-specced machines like the Intel NUC, I wanted to get some kind of BSD onto a low-powered ARM board and use that instead.”
“If you are reading this, you have probably used a personal computer with a BSD or GNU/Linux operating system and at some point attempted to multiboot between multiple operating systems on the same computer. This goal is typically attempted with complex disk partitioning and a BSD or GNU/Linux boot loader like LILO or GRUB, plus several hours of frustrating experimentation and perhaps data loss. While exotic OS experimentation has driven my virtualization work since the late 1990s, there are very pragmatic reasons for multibooting the same OS on the same hardware, notable for updates and failback to "known good" versions. To its credit, FreeBSD has long had various strategies including the NanoBSD embedded system framework with primary and secondary root partitions, plus the nextboot(8) utility for selecting the "next" kernel with various boot parameters. Get everything set correctly and you can multiboot "with impunity".
“That's a good start, and over time we have seen ZFS "boot environments" be used by PC-BSD and FreeNAS to allow for system updates that allow one to fall back to previous versions should something go wrong. Hats off to these efforts but they exist in essentially purpose-built appliance environments. I have long sensed that there is more fun to be had here and a wonderful thing happened with FreeBSD 10.3 and 11.0: Allan Jude added a boot environment menu to the FreeBSD loader”
“First, I apologize for not supplying a port archive myself. After reading the FreeBSD handbook for creating a port, it's too complex of a task for me right now. I've only been using FreeBSD for two weeks. I would also not like to waste anyone's time giving them a terrible port archive and mess up their system.”
“After a few months of traipsing around the worlds of SunOS and Linux, I'm back to NetBSD for what I hope will be a lengthy return engagement. And while I'm enamored of NetBSD for all the previously-mentioned reasons, I'm already thinking ahead to some problems to solve, some of which have also been mentioned before.”
He then goes through and lists some of the small nits he’s still running into during the daily workflow
YouTube audio - Specifically he mentions that no audio is playing, but wonders if Flash plays some part. (Ideally you’re not using Flash though, in which case you need to check the audio backend FF is using. Try PulseAudio since it seems the best supported. If pulse is already enabled, install ‘pavucontrol’ to make sure audio is playing to the correct sound device)
Slow gaming performance (TuxKart and Celestia) - Check DRI / Xorg? Or is it CPU bound?
Lastly some unspecified Wireless issues, which typically end up being driver related. (Or use another chipset)
Reproducible NetBSD? 77.7% of the way there
Create FreeBSD virtual machine using qemu. Run the VM using xhyve.
FreeBSD PowerPC 32bit pkg repository (unofficial). ~19,500 packages, more to come
NetBSD machines at Open Source Conference 2016 Gunma
Adam Leventhal (of ZFS and DTrace) does an analysis of APFS
SemiBug June meeting summary
KnoxBug Meeting
4.9
8989 ratings
This week on the show, Allan and I are going to be showing you a very interesting interview we did talking about using FreeBSD to drive
“One thing I learned during my travels between OSs: consistency is everything.
Most operating systems seem to, at least, keep a consistent interface between themselves and binaries / applications. They do this by keeping consistent APIs (Application Programming Interfaces) and ABIs (Application Binary Interfaces). If you take a binary from a really old version of Linux and run or build it on a brand-spanking new install of Linux, it will likely Just Work™. This is great for applications and developers of applications. Vendors can build binaries for distribution and worry less about their product working when it gets out in the wild (sure this binary built in 2016 will run on RedHat AS2.1!!).“
“This inconsistency seems to have come to be when Linux started getting wireless support. For some reason someone (vendors, maybe?) decided that ifconfig wasn’t a good place to let users interact with their wireless device. Maybe they felt their device was special? Maybe there were technical reasons? The bottom line is, someone decided to create a new utility to manage a wireless device… and then another one came along… pretty soon there was iwconfig(8), iw(8), ifconfig(8), some funky thing that let windows drivers interface with Linux.. and one called ip(8) I am sure there are others I am forgetting, but I prefer to forget. I have moved onto greener pastures and the knowledge of these programs no longer serves me.”
“OpenBSD won the showdown. It was the most complete, simple, and coherent system. The documentation was thorough, the code was easy to follow
“So yesterday I spent the day setting up a new firewall at home here, based off of this BSD Now tutorial. Having set up a couple of OpenBSD routers before, either based on old laptops, bulky old power-sucking desktops or completely over-specced machines like the Intel NUC, I wanted to get some kind of BSD onto a low-powered ARM board and use that instead.”
“If you are reading this, you have probably used a personal computer with a BSD or GNU/Linux operating system and at some point attempted to multiboot between multiple operating systems on the same computer. This goal is typically attempted with complex disk partitioning and a BSD or GNU/Linux boot loader like LILO or GRUB, plus several hours of frustrating experimentation and perhaps data loss. While exotic OS experimentation has driven my virtualization work since the late 1990s, there are very pragmatic reasons for multibooting the same OS on the same hardware, notable for updates and failback to "known good" versions. To its credit, FreeBSD has long had various strategies including the NanoBSD embedded system framework with primary and secondary root partitions, plus the nextboot(8) utility for selecting the "next" kernel with various boot parameters. Get everything set correctly and you can multiboot "with impunity".
“That's a good start, and over time we have seen ZFS "boot environments" be used by PC-BSD and FreeNAS to allow for system updates that allow one to fall back to previous versions should something go wrong. Hats off to these efforts but they exist in essentially purpose-built appliance environments. I have long sensed that there is more fun to be had here and a wonderful thing happened with FreeBSD 10.3 and 11.0: Allan Jude added a boot environment menu to the FreeBSD loader”
“First, I apologize for not supplying a port archive myself. After reading the FreeBSD handbook for creating a port, it's too complex of a task for me right now. I've only been using FreeBSD for two weeks. I would also not like to waste anyone's time giving them a terrible port archive and mess up their system.”
“After a few months of traipsing around the worlds of SunOS and Linux, I'm back to NetBSD for what I hope will be a lengthy return engagement. And while I'm enamored of NetBSD for all the previously-mentioned reasons, I'm already thinking ahead to some problems to solve, some of which have also been mentioned before.”
He then goes through and lists some of the small nits he’s still running into during the daily workflow
YouTube audio - Specifically he mentions that no audio is playing, but wonders if Flash plays some part. (Ideally you’re not using Flash though, in which case you need to check the audio backend FF is using. Try PulseAudio since it seems the best supported. If pulse is already enabled, install ‘pavucontrol’ to make sure audio is playing to the correct sound device)
Slow gaming performance (TuxKart and Celestia) - Check DRI / Xorg? Or is it CPU bound?
Lastly some unspecified Wireless issues, which typically end up being driver related. (Or use another chipset)
Reproducible NetBSD? 77.7% of the way there
Create FreeBSD virtual machine using qemu. Run the VM using xhyve.
FreeBSD PowerPC 32bit pkg repository (unofficial). ~19,500 packages, more to come
NetBSD machines at Open Source Conference 2016 Gunma
Adam Leventhal (of ZFS and DTrace) does an analysis of APFS
SemiBug June meeting summary
KnoxBug Meeting
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