Why is the UK lagging behind other countries when it comes to our debt and budget deficit? Did austerity help or hurt — and was there a better way? And with major events like Brexit and Covid, was our economic slump unavoidable?

Steph and Robert chat with the outgoing boss of the Institute for Fiscal Studies, Paul Johnson, for a deep dive into the UK’s public finances. And to find out what he thinks a fair and effective tax system looks like.

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Assistant Producers:  India Dunkley and Alice Horrell

Producer: Ross Buchanan

Head of Content: Tom Whiter

Exec Producers: Tony Pastor + Jack Davenport

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