Gabriel Custodiet speaks with Richard Turrin, author of a book on China's rapid transformation to a cashless society.

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TIMELINE 00:00 – Introduction 1:30 – Guest background 3:20 – China's rapid cashless transformation from 2010 – 2018 7:00 – Did China have a plan to create this cashlessness? 10:40 – What is the reality in 2025? 13:00 – What is WeChat like at the user level? 19:50 – Are Alipay and WeChat sandboxed? 21:25 – Scams on Alipay and WeChat 26:45 – How do foreigners use Chinese payment apps? 30:20 – How will China transition to a Central Bank Digital Currency (CBDC) 39:07 – Banks in China had to get on board 48:40 – Fees for Alipay and WeChat are essentially zero 50:50 – How often can Chinese use apps outside of China? 52:30 – Are Chinese allowed to use other payment methods? 55:05 – China data sovereignty 1:04:00 – Final thoughts

Music by Karl Casey @ White Bat Audio