For episode 193, Elia Ayoub is joined by Amos Goldberg, Professor of Holocaust History at the Department of Jewish History and Contemporary Jewry at The Hebrew University of Jerusalem.

Goldberg is among the most vocal Israeli historians of the Holocaust to have called Israel’s actions in Gaza genocide. In 2024, he wrote a paper for the Journal of Genocide Research exploring how the question of ‘intent’ is used in discussions around genocides, including the Gaza one. They also get into how genocide is often preceded by claims of self-defense.

The combined two-parter episode is already available on our Patreon for free.

Articles by Goldberg: 

• Amos Goldberg: 'What is happening in Gaza is a genocide because Gaza does not exist anymore'

• Led By Donkeys: Yes it’s a genocide

• Haaretz: There's No Auschwitz in Gaza. But It's Still Genocide. 

Books by Goldberg:

• The Holocaust and the Nakba: A New Grammar of Trauma and History (with Bashir Bashir)

• Trauma in First Person: Diary Writing During the Holocaust

• Marking Evil: Holocaust Memory in the Global Age

Other Links:

• Elia’s newsletter Hauntologies includes articles on “the Ghosts of Israel’s Futures” 

• Lee Mordechai: Witnessing the Gaza War 

• The Fire These Times: The Holocaust, the Nakba and Reparative Memory with Daniel Voskoboynik 

• The Fire These Times: Remembering the Nakba, Imagining the Future w/ Dana El Kurd 

• Read Abubaker Abed’s “The Unbearable Pain of Leaving Gaza”

• Follow Bisan Owda on Instagram 

The Fire These Times is a proud member of⁠ ⁠From The Periphery (FTP) Media Collective⁠⁠. Check out other projects in our media ecosystem: Syria: The Inconvenient Revolution, From The Periphery Podcast, The Mutual Aid Podcast⁠, ⁠Politically Depressed⁠, ⁠Obscuristan⁠, and ⁠Antidote Zine⁠.

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For more:

• Elia Ayoub is on ⁠⁠Bluesky⁠⁠, ⁠Mastodon⁠, ⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠ and blogs at ⁠Hauntologies.net⁠ 

• The Fire These Times is on Bluesky,⁠ Instagram⁠ and has a⁠ ⁠website⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠

• From The Periphery is on⁠ ⁠Patreon⁠⁠, ⁠Bluesky⁠, ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠,⁠ Instagram⁠, and has a⁠ website⁠⁠

Credits:

Elia Ayoub (host, producer, sound editor, episode design), ⁠⁠Rap and Revenge⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ (Music), ⁠⁠Wenyi Geng⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ (TFTT theme design), ⁠⁠Hisham Rifai⁠⁠⁠⁠ (FTP theme design) and ⁠⁠Molly Crabapple⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ (FTP team profile pics).