Peter Hain, a veteran of the governments of Tony Blair and Gordon Brown and now a Labour peer, talks to me about what New Labour got right and wrong and how it contributed to Brexit. He discusses his friendship with Nelson Mandela, his own role in the anti-Apartheid struggle, climate change activism, Keir Starmer's leadership, his love of Wales, his new novel about poaching and corruption in South Africa, and what makes for a perfect Peter Hain evening.