Cider Chat

223: Ask Ryan | Quarantine Quad Series, Part 3


Listen Later

Discover two cidermaking techniques that are also used in winemaking, called Maderisation and Bâtonnage. We delve into both of these topics in Part 3 of the Quarantine Quad Series called "Ask Ryan" with Ryan Monkman of FieldBird Cider, Ontario Canada answering questions from Cider Chat listeners.

Maderisation: What is this technique and can it be used with cider?

Bâtonnage: are there any short term benefits from bâtonnage or does one need to "stir up the barrel" for a long period (1 year at the least) to benefit from this technique?

Listen Part 1 and Part 2 of the Quarantine Quad Series.

Maderisation - The barrels are cooked - sometimes for years. Developing flavors called "maderised".

  • If done well it can be delicious.
  • High alcohol cider is best for maderisation - slower bacterial growth. Cider that is has a low alcohol by volume - likely to get organism spikes.

FieldBird is planning to do a maderized cider from the 2020 harvest

  • Northern Spy, fermented half way and fortified with apple brandy and let the barrel sit in a hot place.
  • 17 Brix on the Spys (9%) ferment down half way and then add brandy. Getting 8% sugar.
  • Sugar helps - creates the caramel flavor and provides an appearance of freshness.
  • No MLF in the presence of sugar. Leave in cellar over the winter.
  • Then leave the barrel outside all summer.
  • 30 Celsius - 86 Farenheit.
    • This will cause the maderisation

The risk of maderisation is cooking a barrel to much

The final product will be around 17-18%

Battonage: Is it worth it if you don't have a full year to do Bâtonnage on a barrel?

  • Nano proteins are the biggest benefit of Bâtonnage
    • They release into the cider providing a perception of sweetness and body with out the sugar
  • Need at least 9 months to a year to get the nano proteins

There are short term benefits.

  1. Yeast produces less carbon dioxide and bubbles.
    • They slow down after the first primary ferment.
    • Fermentation may have stopped but there is still sugar left.
  2. Lees absorb off aromas, except for H2S rotting egg smell.
  3. Bâtonnage helps to maintain a reductive state.
    • Full reduction - rotting smell is a type of reduction. Which helps protect the cider from oxidization and protect the flavor components.

In wine, a Sauvignon Blanc, has rich tropical flavors which come from a rich reductive state,

At FieldBird, they save lees in the freezer.

Cracking - the freeze helps the lees cells break down.

  • Using frozen lees that have cracked - means it will takes only 4-5 months versus 8-9 months in the barrel to get the benefits from Bâtonnage

Contact for Ryan Monkman at FieldBird Cider

  • website: https://www.fieldbird.ca/
  • Instagram
    • FieldBird https://www.instagram.com/fieldbird.cider/
    • Ryan Monkman https://www.instagram.com/rgmonkman/

Mentions in this chat

  • Stories in Ciderville - send in fiction and nonfiction essays to read out loud on Cider Chat to [email protected]
  • September 1-6, 20202 England Cider Tour

Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

  • Listen also at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio , Spotify and wherever you love to listen to podcasts.
  • Follow on Cider Chat's blog, social media and podcast
  • Twitter @ciderchat
  • Instagram: @ciderchatciderville
  • Cider Chat FaceBook Page
  • Cider Chat YouTube
...more
View all episodesView all episodes
Download on the App Store

Cider ChatBy Ria Windcaller: Award-winning Cidermaker, Podcaster | Craft Beer Columnist

  • 4.8
  • 4.8
  • 4.8
  • 4.8
  • 4.8

4.8

85 ratings


More shows like Cider Chat

View all
Radiolab by WNYC Studios

Radiolab

43,820 Listeners

Freakonomics Radio by Freakonomics Radio + Stitcher

Freakonomics Radio

32,234 Listeners

Fresh Air by NPR

Fresh Air

38,499 Listeners

The Tim Ferriss Show by Tim Ferriss: Bestselling Author, Human Guinea Pig

The Tim Ferriss Show

16,187 Listeners

The NPR Politics Podcast by NPR

The NPR Politics Podcast

26,043 Listeners

On the Media by WNYC Studios

On the Media

9,229 Listeners

In Our Time by BBC Radio 4

In Our Time

5,576 Listeners

The Daily by The New York Times

The Daily

113,519 Listeners

Up First from NPR by NPR

Up First from NPR

56,989 Listeners

Radio Atlantic by The Atlantic

Radio Atlantic

2,389 Listeners

Today, Explained by Vox

Today, Explained

10,339 Listeners

The Prof G Pod with Scott Galloway by Vox Media Podcast Network

The Prof G Pod with Scott Galloway

5,653 Listeners

Beyond Organic Wine by Beyond Organic Wine

Beyond Organic Wine

54 Listeners

The Ezra Klein Show by New York Times Opinion

The Ezra Klein Show

16,554 Listeners

The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart by Comedy Central

The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart

10,990 Listeners