John Congleton and Joe first met 22 years ago in Denton, TX. John's band, the pAper chAse shared a bill with Joe's band at the time. In the intervening years, John has distinguished himself as one of the most innovative and in-demand producers of his generation, working with scores of artists such as: Sharon Van Etten, Blondie, St. Vincent, Angel Olsen, and Wye Oak. John and Joe discuss: depression, empathy, the power of saying no, learning to trust your instincts, existential dread, and more!