In the aftermath of the Second World War, the Allies brought twenty-four of Hitler's most senior figures to justice at Nuremberg. Among them was Hermann Göring — once Hitler's designated heir and still a commanding presence, even in defeat.

Before the trial began, the U.S. Army assigned a young psychiatrist, Captain Douglas Kelley, to assess whether these men were mentally fit to stand trial. For Kelley, it was the professional opportunity of a lifetime: a chance to explore the minds of the Nazi elite and discover what made them capable of such atrocities.

What he found was far more complex and unsettling than expected. Kelley's professional curiosity evolved into a disturbing psychological duel, especially with Hermann Göring — a man both monstrous and magnetic, whose personality thrived even in captivity.

In this episode, I speak with Jack El-Hai, author of The Nazi and the Psychiatrist: Hermann Göring, Dr. Douglas Kelley, and a Fatal Meeting of Minds at the End of WWII. Jack draws on Kelley's long-hidden papers and medical records to tell this extraordinary story, which has also inspired the upcoming 2025 film Nuremberg.

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