This episode of E&E is a conversation between Pastor Nic Gibson and historian Tracy McKenzie about McKenzie's book "We the Fallen People," which explores a critical transformation in American political thought regarding human nature. The core argument is that the American founders designed the Constitution based on a realistic, biblically-aligned view that humans are inherently self-interested and fallen, requiring checks and balances on power. However, by the 1830s, particularly during the Jacksonian era, this view shifted dramatically toward a belief in the innate goodness of "the people." McKenzie argues that this transformation wasn't primarily driven by later influences like Marx or Darwin, but rather by earlier political dynamics, particularly the expansion of voting rights and the rise of populist democracy. The conversation explores how this shift continues to influence American political discourse today, where politicians often frame narratives around the inherent goodness of their supporters and the evil of their opponents. McKenzie expresses concern that these political messages can function as competing "sermons" that shape Christians' understanding of human nature in ways that may conflict with biblical teaching. He advocates for Christians to resist being "captured" by partisan narratives and to maintain a biblical view of human nature when engaging in politics, emphasizing that the line between good and evil runs through every human heart rather than between political parties.

Engage & Equip is a resource designed to help form substantive disciples for the local church.

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Music: HOME—We're Finally Landing, Nosebleed, If I'm Wrong (https://midwestcollective.bandcamp.com/album/before-the-night)