The Way I Heard It with Mike Rowe

For decades, Joe Manchin was a Democrat in a state that increasingly voted Republican. He served two terms as governor of West Virginia before spending 14 years in the U.S. Senate, where his willingness to buck his own party made him one of the most consequential—and controversial—voices in Washington. But eventually, even Manchin had enough. In 2024, he left the Democratic Party and registered as an independent.

So what changed? Why was he a Democrat in the first place, and what finally convinced him to leave? On this episode of The Way I Heard It, Mike Rowe sits down with the former governor and senator to explore the state of American politics, the price of putting principle ahead of party, and the growing divide between Washington and the people it serves.

Manchin explains why he considered running for president but ultimately decided against it—and what kind of president he might have been. He also lays out his vision for changing the political conversation, empowering moderates, and tackling the problems that actually matter, from energy and economic opportunity to the national debt and a government seemingly incapable of getting much done.

Now, through his work with the Independent Leadership Council, which he launched with his daughter Heather in 2026, Manchin is working to recruit and elect independent candidates to Congress who will answer to voters rather than party bosses. Can a movement built around common sense and compromise break the grip of the two-party system? Or is independence just another political pipe dream?

Mike and Joe consider whether the road to a better America runs not through the extremes, but through the middle. It's a conversation about political identity, the courage to change your mind, and whether a Declaration of Independents might be just what the country needs.

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Chapter and its affiliates are not connected with or endorsed by any government entity or the federal Medicare program. Chapter Advisory, LLC represents Medicare Advantage HMO, PPO, and PFFS organizations and standalone prescription drug plans that have a Medicare contract. Enrollment depends on the plan's contract renewal. While we have a database of every Medicare plan nationwide and can help you to search among all plans, we have contracts with many but not all plans. As a result, we do not offer every plan available in your area. Currently we represent 50 organizations which offer 18,160 products nationwide. We search and recommend all plans, even those we don't directly offer. You can contact a licensed Chapter agent to find out the number of products available in your specific area. Please contact Medicare.gov, 1-800-Medicare, or your local State Health Insurance Program (SHIP) to get information on all of your options.

What do you get when you combine labor, energy, and intelligence? According to Toby Rice, you get the ingredients for abundance—and a better standard of living for all Americans. The CEO of EQT Corporation and co-founder of Rice Energy, Rice began his career as a chimney sweep before working his way into the energy business.

On this episode, he joins Mike to make the case for American energy abundance, explain why affordable, reliable energy is essential to human progress, and discuss Energy Corps, his nonprofit dedicated to addressing energy poverty around the world.

He also shares three harrowing near-misses on the job that nearly cost him his life—and how those experiences helped drive efforts to make the industry safer. Because for Rice, the real goal isn't simply producing more energy. It's empowering people to do more with their lives.

Tip o' the hat to our excellent sponsors

BuildFreedom.us—The best place to find a six-figure, AI-proof job. Build your future. Rebuild America.

CamelCityMill.com—The last work sock you'll ever need. 100% American made with a 10-year warranty. Use code ROWE for 10% off Mike's favorite work sock.

Meta has partnered with the National Urban League, Associated Building Contractors and CBRE to create a nationwide, paid, fast-track to a long-term career in a skilled trade. Go to Meta.com/AmericasWorkforceAcademy to learn more.

Chapter.com/MikeRowe—Chapter compares every Medicare plan nationwide to recommend the right coverage for you. Call them at 804-CHAPTER or visit chapter.com/mikerowe to get free, unbiased Medicare help.

Chapter and its affiliates are not connected with or endorsed by any government entity or the federal Medicare program. Chapter Advisory, LLC represents Medicare Advantage HMO, PPO, and PFFS organizations and standalone prescription drug plans that have a Medicare contract. Enrollment depends on the plan's contract renewal. While we have a database of every Medicare plan nationwide and can help you to search among all plans, we have contracts with many but not all plans. As a result, we do not offer every plan available in your area. Currently we represent 50 organizations which offer 18,160 products nationwide. We search and recommend all plans, even those we don't directly offer. You can contact a licensed Chapter agent to find out the number of products available in your specific area. Please contact Medicare.gov, 1-800-Medicare, or your local State Health Insurance Program (SHIP) to get information on all of your options.

Jim McKelvey is an entrepreneur, innovator, computer engineer, and master glassblower who helped build a billion-dollar company. That's not the usual career path, but then, Jim McKelvey isn't your usual entrepreneur. The co-founder of Square, along with Jack Dorsey, McKelvey turned a frustrating experience in his glass studio into a business that changed the way small businesses get paid. Mike talks with Jim about the art of blowing glass, his involvement with TechShop, and why a guy who helped invent the future of payments is downright terrified of AI. They also discuss The Innovation Stack, McKelvey's book about the unconventional thinking that built Square—and why sometimes the best way to solve a problem is to stop doing what everybody else is doing.

BuildFreedom.us—The best place to find a six-figure, AI-proof job. Build your future. Rebuild America.

PureTalk.com/ROWE—Switch your phone service today and get UNLIMITED talk, text, data, and 30G hot spot for just $29.95 a month for LIFE! Not your phone's life—your life!

NetSuite.com/Mike—The #1 Cloud ER. If your revenues are at least in the seven figures, get NetSuite's FREE business guide, Aligning for the Agentic Era: How AI is Changing Everyday Work.

Chapter.com/MikeRowe—Chapter compares every Medicare plan nationwide to recommend the right coverage for you. Call them at 804-CHAPTER or visit chapter.com/mikerowe to get free, unbiased Medicare help.

Chapter and its affiliates are not connected with or endorsed by any government entity or the federal Medicare program. Chapter Advisory, LLC represents Medicare Advantage HMO, PPO, and PFFS organizations and standalone prescription drug plans that have a Medicare contract. Enrollment depends on the plan's contract renewal. While we have a database of every Medicare plan nationwide and can help you to search among all plans, we have contracts with many but not all plans. As a result, we do not offer every plan available in your area. Currently we represent 50 organizations which offer 18,160 products nationwide. We search and recommend all plans, even those we don't directly offer. You can contact a licensed Chapter agent to find out the number of products available in your specific area. Please contact Medicare.gov, 1-800-Medicare, or your local State Health Insurance Program (SHIP) to get information on all of your options.

What does it really feel like to fly into combat knowing you may not come home? Colonel Nick Nichols knows the answer. A 30-year Air Force veteran, F-16 pilot, and seven-time combat veteran, Nick now leads Folds of Honor, providing scholarships to the families of fallen and disabled service members and first responders.

Nick joins Mike to pull back the curtain on life in the cockpit, what deployment is really like, and the unlikely path that led him from the cockpit of an F-16 to a new mission with Folds of Honor. Then he tells Mike a deeply personal account of the one combat mission that still haunts him to this day

Many thanks to our excellent sponsors

BuildFreedom.us—The best place to find a six-figure, AI-proof job. Build your future. Rebuild America.

American-Giant.com/Mike—American Giant makes clothes that last, and they make them 100% in America.Use code MIKE to get 20% off your order. American Giant—American Made.

ZipRecruiter.com/Rowe—The recruiting site that really is the smartest way to hire. Post a job for FREE and find a qualified candidate in 24 hours.

Chapter.com/MikeRowe—Chapter compares every Medicare plan nationwide to recommend the right coverage for you. Call them at 804-CHAPTER or visit chapter.com/mikerowe to get free, unbiased Medicare help.

Chapter and its affiliates are not connected with or endorsed by any government entity or the federal Medicare program. Chapter Advisory, LLC represents Medicare Advantage HMO, PPO, and PFFS organizations and standalone prescription drug plans that have a Medicare contract. Enrollment depends on the plan's contract renewal. While we have a database of every Medicare plan nationwide and can help you to search among all plans, we have contracts with many but not all plans. As a result, we do not offer every plan available in your area. Currently we represent 50 organizations which offer 18,160 products nationwide. We search and recommend all plans, even those we don't directly offer. You can contact a licensed Chapter agent to find out the number of products available in your specific area. Please contact Medicare.gov, 1-800-Medicare, or your local State Health Insurance Program (SHIP) to get information on all of your options.

This is a two-parter in one episode! Part One was recorded in May, when Mike sat down with Agriculture Secretary Brooke Rollins to talk about her vision for American agriculture, the challenges facing farmers and ranchers, and the future of food production in America. Four months later, Mike needed to follow up after President Trump's proclamation calling for 300,000 metric tons of additional beef imports—a decision that was met with concern by many American ranchers. So, Part Two was recorded in September. Mike asks the Secretary to explain the decision, what it means for American ranchers, and what it means for consumers. Two conversations, recorded months apart, with a lot more in common than you might expect.

Big thanks to our awesome sponsors

GoodRanchers.com/ROWE—100% of their meat comes from American farms and ranches and delivered straight to your door. Start your plan and get a FREE Ground Beef Bundle with your firs order.

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What happens when a nation forgets the value of the people who make, build, fix, and grow things? Historian, classicist, farmer, and Hoover Institution Senior Fellow Victor Davis Hanson joins Mike for a wide-ranging conversation about what America values—and what it may have forgotten. They explore the difference between the generalist and the specialist, the importance of the "muscular" trades, and why a strong middle class is essential to a healthy society.

Hanson also discusses his new book, The Counterrevolution: The Fall and Rise of Donald Trump and the MAGA Movement, which examines Trump's political comeback and argues that his return to power was part of a broader reaction to the political, cultural, and institutional forces that shaped the years between his two presidencies.

Tip o' the hat to our excellent sponsors

GoodRanchers.com/ROWE—100% of their meat comes from American farms and ranches and delivered straight to your door. Start your plan and get a FREE Ground Beef Bundle with your firs order.

EducationFreedom.org—Contribute to ACE Scholarships to give more children access to the right opportunities, resources and learning environments they need to thrive. In return, you'll receive a dollar-for-dollar federal tax credit.

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What if some of the food we've been told is convenient, affordable, and perfectly safe is actually making us sick? Alex Clark, host of the popular Culture Apothecary podcast and a passionate advocate for healthier food, joins Mike to discuss Breaking Big Food, a documentary in which she appears that takes a hard look at what's really behind America's processed-food problem.

The conversation explores how Big Food adopted tactics pioneered by Big Tobacco, the science and marketing behind ultra-processed foods, what happens when corporate interests collide with public health, and why it's so difficult to know what's actually good for us anymore.

But this isn't just a crusade for Alex—it's personal. She tells Mike about her father's battle with chronic illness and death, and how it inspired her mission to figure out why so much of what we eat seems determined to kill us. Alex gets fired up. Mike gets curious. And together, they ask a simple question: What exactly are we eating?

Today's episode is sponsored by

PureTalk.com/ROWE—Switch your phone service today and get UNLIMITED high-speed data for just $34.99 a month and save an additional 50% off your first month.

CamelCityMill.com—The last work sock you'll ever need. 100% American made with a 10year warranty. Use code ROWE for 10% off Mike's favorite work sock.

NetSuite.com/Mike—The #1 Cloud ER. If your revenues are at least in the seven figures, get NetSuite'sFREE business guide, Aligning for the Agentic Era: How AI Is Changing Everyday Work.

Nearly 2,000 years ago, Roman Emperor Hadrian built a wall to protect the empire's northern frontier. Today, another Hadrian is building something very different—but with a similar purpose: helping protect America by rebuilding its industrial strength.

Chris Power is the founder and CEO of Hadrian, an advanced manufacturing company using AI and automation to produce critical components for America's aerospace and defense industries. Born in Australia, Chris believes America is the greatest country in the world—and he's determined to help keep it that way.

His mission is to reinvigorate America's industrial base, starting with the Defense Industrial Base. Chris joins Mike to discuss manufacturing, national security, and why America's ability to defend itself ultimately depends on its ability to make things.

Because sometimes the best defense isn't another wall. It's the ability to make what you need, when you need it.

Many thanks to our excellent sponsors

GoodRanchers.com/ROWE—100% of their meat from American farms and ranches and delivered straight to your door. Start your plan and get a free Ground Beef Bundle with your firs order. Good Ranchers—American meat delivered.

ZipRecruiter.com/Rowe—The recruiting site that really is the smartest way to hire. Post a job for FREE and find a qualified candidate in 24 hours.

Andy Stumpf knows what it takes to operate when everything goes wrong. A former Navy SEAL who served with SEAL Team Six, Stumpf spent 17 years in the military, including a tour as a BUD/S instructor responsible for training hundreds of aspiring SEALs. He was also shot at close range by an Iraqi insurgent with an AK-47—and somehow came back to serve again.

In this episode, Andy pulls back the curtain on the world of special operations and the psychology of becoming a SEAL. He reveals what he learned about the candidates who ring the bell, the methods he used as an instructor to get them to keep going—or make them quit—and what it really feels like when an AK-47 fragment shatters your sciatic nerve. It's a conversation about fear, pain, endurance, and the strange things that happen in your head when the stakes couldn't be higher.

Andy is the host of Cleared Hot, one of the most popular podcasts devoted to military life, special operations, and the people who have lived it.

Big thanks to our terrific sponsors

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What happens when your son drops out of MIT at 19, starts a defense company in his twenties, and sets out to reinvent the way America builds weapons? If you're Tamara Thornton, you get a job.

In this episode, Mike sits down with the Head of Marketing and Communications at Mach Industries, Tamara Thornton, who also happens to be the mother of the founder and CEO, Ethan Thornton.

Ethan's decision to leave MIT and pursue his vision for Mach has led to a company now valued at $1.8 billion. But the story gets more interesting when you hear it from his mother—and learn what Ethan was like long before he became a CEO.

It's a revealing and often surprising conversation about family, ambition, risk, failure, manufacturing, and the remarkable journey from a kid who liked to blow stuff up to the leader of one of America's fastest-growing defense companies.

At the center of it all is a fascinating question: What happens when the son you raised becomes your boss?

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