The Amp Hour Electronics Podcast

#687 – The RP2350 with the Raspberry Pi Team

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Welcome James Adams, Chris Boross, Liam Fraser, and Luke Wren!

  • The last time the RPi team was on the show was about the RP1 (#648)
  • The order of parts being released was RP2040->RP1->RP2350
  • Check out the datasheet for the RP2350
  • Learning from silicon
  • Security and power states
  • The part is a “Dual dual core”
  • The Arm side is a Dual M33
  • The RISC V side is a Hazard 3 processor, designed by Luke based on a previous processor called the Hazard 5
  • HB5
  • There is a mux on the core and you select which side you’re going to use at boot
  • There are 48 GPIO (but users always want more)
  • Chris Boross (first time on the show) is on the commercial team. He’s seing interesting applications for the RP2350 including devices that are using it for motor control.
  • They also have seen the part used in satellites because mRAM or masked ROM is less susceptible to radiation errors
  • The PIOs have changed, but are more evolutionary from the RP2040
  • The PIO allows you to create state machines that process inputs without processor interventions, basically like tiny cores
  • 2 cores – 8 total
  • Interesting PIO applications
    • Luke still likes that DVI on 2040 that was discussed on the first episode they were on (#529)
    • CAN is possible
    • USB host / device
    • MII / RMII
    • ULPI – USB 2.0 Phy
    • The core frequency only increased 133 MHz -> 150 MHz. There is tougher timing with the M33
    • LVT – lower voltage threshhold
    • 30 -> 40 pins
    • There are now variants listed on the RP2350 product page (but not in mass production) that include flash in the SOM package
    • RP2040 was one power domain
    • “Powerman” (and of course AVR Man)
    • Switched core
    • AON – always on
    • 32 kHz
    • There is a C/C++ SDK that is the basis for other ports
    • Security is a focus for the RP2350
    • Bootrom in every chip
    • Secure boot
    • M33 features – secure / non-secure
    • RISC V PMP
    • RCP – Redundancy Coprocessor
    • Raspberry Pi had a challenge / bounty for getting the secret out of the RP2350 OTP with secure boot
    • One of the few silicon companies doing this sort of thing in public
    • Past guest Aedan Cullen  was one of the hacks called “Hazardous threes”. He gave a talk about it at 38C3
    • Past guest Colin O’Flynn was also mentioned because collaboration around side channel attacks with the Chip Whisperer
    • IOActive used a FIB – Fine Ion Beam – and passive voltage contrast to capture an impressive image of a decapped chip (see the RPi post)
    • “Never want to see ‘novel technique’ in an email”
    • Improving the RP2350 silicon
    • How do you decide what to fix/leave?
    • Can it be changed in metal/vias?
    • SIO spinlock not being fixed
    • Chicken Bit
    • Filler cells are reprogrammable and help with fixes
    • It costs approximately $50K per layer to change (ostensibly because of the high costs of masks)
    • ULA – uncommitted logic array
    • Die shrink doesn’t seem to make sense
    • Will keep making each chip as long as 40 nm fabs are around
    • Thinking about the RP2040
    • The easiest way to get started is to use a Pico (RP2040) or a Pico 2 (RP2350). Both have connectivity options as well.
    • Raspberry Pi is now a public company! Doesn’t change much other than the business scrutiny.
      • ...more
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      The Amp Hour Electronics PodcastBy The Amp Hour (Chris Gammell and David L Jones)
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