The Amp Hour Electronics Podcast

#687 – The RP2350 with the Raspberry Pi Team

Listen Later

Welcome James Adams, Chris Boross, Liam Fraser, and Luke Wren!

  • The last time the RPi team was on the show was about the RP1 (#648)
  • The order of parts being released was RP2040->RP1->RP2350
  • Check out the datasheet for the RP2350
  • Learning from silicon
  • Security and power states
  • The part is a “Dual dual core”
  • The Arm side is a Dual M33
  • The RISC V side is a Hazard 3 processor, designed by Luke based on a previous processor called the Hazard 5
  • HB5
  • There is a mux on the core and you select which side you’re going to use at boot
  • There are 48 GPIO (but users always want more)
  • Chris Boross (first time on the show) is on the commercial team. He’s seing interesting applications for the RP2350 including devices that are using it for motor control.
  • They also have seen the part used in satellites because mRAM or masked ROM is less susceptible to radiation errors
  • The PIOs have changed, but are more evolutionary from the RP2040
  • The PIO allows you to create state machines that process inputs without processor interventions, basically like tiny cores
  • 2 cores – 8 total
  • Interesting PIO applications
    • Luke still likes that DVI on 2040 that was discussed on the first episode they were on (#529)
    • CAN is possible
    • USB host / device
    • MII / RMII
    • ULPI – USB 2.0 Phy
    • The core frequency only increased 133 MHz -> 150 MHz. There is tougher timing with the M33
    • LVT – lower voltage threshhold
    • 30 -> 40 pins
    • There are now variants listed on the RP2350 product page (but not in mass production) that include flash in the SOM package
    • RP2040 was one power domain
    • “Powerman” (and of course AVR Man)
    • Switched core
    • AON – always on
    • 32 kHz
    • There is a C/C++ SDK that is the basis for other ports
    • Security is a focus for the RP2350
    • Bootrom in every chip
    • Secure boot
    • M33 features – secure / non-secure
    • RISC V PMP
    • RCP – Redundancy Coprocessor
    • Raspberry Pi had a challenge / bounty for getting the secret out of the RP2350 OTP with secure boot
    • One of the few silicon companies doing this sort of thing in public
    • Past guest Aedan Cullen  was one of the hacks called “Hazardous threes”. He gave a talk about it at 38C3
    • Past guest Colin O’Flynn was also mentioned because collaboration around side channel attacks with the Chip Whisperer
    • IOActive used a FIB – Fine Ion Beam – and passive voltage contrast to capture an impressive image of a decapped chip (see the RPi post)
    • “Never want to see ‘novel technique’ in an email”
    • Improving the RP2350 silicon
    • How do you decide what to fix/leave?
    • Can it be changed in metal/vias?
    • SIO spinlock not being fixed
    • Chicken Bit
    • Filler cells are reprogrammable and help with fixes
    • It costs approximately $50K per layer to change (ostensibly because of the high costs of masks)
    • ULA – uncommitted logic array
    • Die shrink doesn’t seem to make sense
    • Will keep making each chip as long as 40 nm fabs are around
    • Thinking about the RP2040
    • The easiest way to get started is to use a Pico (RP2040) or a Pico 2 (RP2350). Both have connectivity options as well.
    • Raspberry Pi is now a public company! Doesn’t change much other than the business scrutiny.
      • ...more
      View all episodesView all episodes
      Download on the App Store
      The Amp Hour Electronics PodcastBy The Amp Hour (Chris Gammell and David L Jones)
      • 4.9
      • 4.9
      • 4.9
      • 4.9
      • 4.9

      4.9

      226 ratings

      More shows like The Amp Hour Electronics Podcast

      View all
      The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source by Changelog Media

      The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source

      289 Listeners

      This Week in Tech (Audio) by TWiT

      This Week in Tech (Audio)

      3,063 Listeners

      Security Now (Audio) by TWiT

      Security Now (Audio)

      2,005 Listeners

      Software Engineering Daily by Software Engineering Daily

      Software Engineering Daily

      623 Listeners

      Talk Python To Me by Michael Kennedy

      Talk Python To Me

      582 Listeners

      SpyCast by SpyCast

      SpyCast

      1,533 Listeners

      SANS Internet Stormcenter Daily Cyber Security Podcast (Stormcast) by Johannes B. Ullrich

      SANS Internet Stormcenter Daily Cyber Security Podcast (Stormcast)

      648 Listeners

      Embedded by Logical Elegance

      Embedded

      192 Listeners

      Smashing Security by Graham Cluley

      Smashing Security

      322 Listeners

      Darknet Diaries by Jack Rhysider

      Darknet Diaries

      8,111 Listeners

      Physics World Weekly Podcast by Physics World

      Physics World Weekly Podcast

      83 Listeners

      Practical AI by Practical AI LLC

      Practical AI

      203 Listeners

      Hackaday Podcast by Hackaday

      Hackaday Podcast

      64 Listeners

      Latent Space: The AI Engineer Podcast by swyx + Alessio

      Latent Space: The AI Engineer Podcast

      98 Listeners

      Robinson's Podcast by Robinson Erhardt

      Robinson's Podcast

      267 Listeners