“Even the most unsinkable ship can sink.”

That’s Trevor Noah reflecting on the fragility of democracy, and he’s not just here to make you laugh—he’s here to challenge how you think. At CLEANPOWER 2025, Trevor delivers a brilliant, unscripted dialogue with Jason Grumet, the Chief Executive Officer of American Clean Power, unpacking how stories shape our national psyche—and what that means for the clean energy movement.

This episode is full of surprises. From philosophical riffs on the social power of red lights to how a “thank you” at the front door can restore social cohesion, Trevor delivers a masterful discussion on systems thinking, imagination, and empathy.

Most importantly? He lays out a quietly radical idea: stop selling people what you want—sell them what they need. 

Clean energy has a messaging problem, and it’s time we stop preaching morals and start aligning incentives.

You won’t hear a more thought-provoking or entertaining take on American politics, trust, and the future of our energy system all year. 

(We recorded this Live Keynote with permission at the American Clean Power “CleanPower 2025” conference - it was delivered the very morning of the Houses passing vote on the Big Beautiful Bill) 

👉 In this episode:

🔹 The difference between truth, facts, and perception

🔹 Why clean energy needs better storytelling, not better tech

🔹 How conflict (done right) leads to discovery and love

🔹 The power of human connection in a disconnected world

If you're serious about leading the energy transition, start here—with the questions only a comedian dares to ask.

If you want to connect with today's guest, you’ll find links to his contact info in the show notes on the blog at https://mysuncast.com/suncast-episodes/.

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