Raghav Sukumar is a Vice President at State Street leading the Product Management in EMEA for AlphaSM Data Services which is State Street’s ‘Data as a Service’ (DaaS) offering for institutional investors. He is responsible for solution architecture, managing product roadmap and providing consultancy for EMEA client implementations. Prior to joining State Street he consulted for the Financial Conduct Authority to implement their Market Data Platform for MiFID II regulation, and provided subject matter expertise to deliver data management and regulatory reporting solutions for a FTSE100 bank and large insurance firms.

Raghav holds a Master’s degree in Management from University of Wales, Swansea and a Bachelor’s degree in Information Science and Engineering from Visvesvaraya Technological University.

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Transcript

Hadley: [00:00:00] Welcome to the show Raghav. 

[00:00:03] Raghav: [00:00:03] Thanks for having me, Hadley. It's a pleasure, always pleasure to talk to you.

[00:00:05] Hadley: [00:00:05] So Raghav, as you know, you know, this is a show we want to focus on the trait of curiosity, uh, and, and the impact that it has had on your life and career as a data professional within that wider ecosystem.

[00:00:22] Raghav, imagine this right, we're sitting around a campfire starry night, me and you beer in hand. And you're about to take me on a journey through the life of Raghav. Where do we start? Go back to the beginning. Where were you born? Do you have siblings? Um, what was your early life like? 

[00:00:43] Raghav: [00:00:43] Yeah, Hadley. Uh, I was born in India in Bangalore.

[00:00:47] Um, uh, I have one sibling, an elder brother, uh, about six years older than me, uh, which kind of helps, uh, especially, uh, if one has a curious mind, the elder one is always doing something that you haven't seen before are a bit more advanced and so on. And so, uh, for me, I think w 

[00:01:05] Hadley: [00:01:05] w if you don't mind me asking, where is he now?

[00:01:08] Raghav: [00:01:08] My brother is now in Texas. Okay. Um, so he moved, um, probably three, four years ago. Um, but, um, but he's, uh, he's been, uh, quite a, uh, uh, an influence during my early ages. Uh, I would say. Hadley: Hmm, cool. And what does he do? Raghav: So he's, um, he's a computer engineer as well. Uh, so he's, uh, he's been within the software industry for a long time.

[00:01:33] And, um, when I was growing up, probably, you know, when I was seven or eight, it was, uh, he was, uh, clued up in computers that kind of, uh, played, uh, quite an important role. Um, my. My parents were entrepreneurs. So there was a computer at home, uh, basically back in, you know, uh, late eighties or early nineties, I would say,

[00:01:54] Hadley: [00:01:54] And did you get exposure to computers and how they work or what does he do exactly within computers now?

[00:02:03] Raghav: [00:02:03] Uh, no, he's, uh, he works for Dell. Uh he's um, he's leading a program management across a lot of the products globally. 

[00:02:11] Hadley: [00:02:11] That's fantastic. So, so back then he was already keen and kind of curious to see how these things work and taking it apart. 

[00:02:18] Raghav: [00:02:18] He was. He was, yes. And, uh, while he was, you know, uh, learning more about computers and, you know, um, he, he actually assembled the computer, our computer at home.

[00:02:29] And, uh, me, it was all for me, uh, you know, watching him do it and, uh, learning, uh, by, by seeing...

Marinus Heymann is the Regional Managing Director for Jigsaw Advisory in the Middle East and has 15+ years of experience in consulting focussing on Enterprise Performance Management, Corporate Strategy, Analytics and Digital Transformation.

He has extensively worked with clients across the Middle East, Southern Africa and Europe and has led large Strategy and IT transformation engagements.

Marinus holds a double bachelor's degree in Business Management and an MBA from the University of Pretoria.

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Transcript

Hadley: [00:00:00] Welcome to the show, Marinus. 

[00:00:02] Marinus: [00:00:02] Thanks Hadley. Happy to be here. 

[00:00:04] Hadley: [00:00:04] Cool. As you know, the show focuses on the trait of curiosity. So today we want to find out the essence of Marinus and we want to understand what your life has been like and how curiosity has played a part in that. So take us on a journey. Where were you born?

[00:00:23] You know, how many siblings did you have? What w what was your family life like? How did that impact you? 

[00:00:29] Marinus: [00:00:29] All right. Um, so I was born in Pretoria, South Africa. Uh, with two siblings and older brother and older sister, um, they were quite, Hadley: So you were the baby? Marinus: yeah. Oh yeah. I was, I think, um, and nine years younger than my brother and seven years younger than my sister, so, so, okay.

[00:00:49] Hadley: So were you spoiled? Marinus: Very, very spoiled privileged. Um, so we grew up with a father who, uh, graduated an engineer and a mother who was a nursery school teacher. And, um, when my brother and sister grew up, we had very, very, um, I want to say a little income because my father just invested everything either towards his own learning and studying his MBA or, uh, into the nursery school that my mother, uh, started just before I was born, actually.

[00:01:29] So, so they didn't have that much growing up. Um, When I was young, I kind of got the tail end of it. So luckily, um, and then that's kind of leading into how I was spoiled. Um, not, not ridiculously, but obviously more than my siblings. So, um, so we, we had a wonderful childhood. My parents are great, great people and great parents.

[00:01:56] And, um, my father always had this, this notion of kind of academics first, although I was a terrible student at school. Um, and the reason for his academics first was he, he grew up with grandparents who were all self-taught, um, And who valued a valued learning more than the academic qualification. Uh, his father was a professor in electrical engineering or, um, again, starting from a very humble basis and then, and then pushing that continuous learning and my father kind of built that into me.

[00:02:40] Um, 

[00:02:42] Hadley: [00:02:42] just, just, just quickly, a quick aside in that, right? With the availability of quality information and knowledge readily available on the internet, do you think that the same emphasis should be put on a structured academic kind of path especially within technology, right. Um, w when three years down the lane, you know, the information that you gain, you know, at the start of your career or at the start of your course, rather, maybe even be outdated.

[00:03:16] What are your thoughts on that?

[00:03:17] Marinus: [00:03:17] Right. So, so let me put it to you in this way. So our curriculum in school and in varsity is very, very structured and I think no one has a real

Dr. Michael Zimmer is a father, husband, Chief Data Officer and Head of AI/ML at Zurich Germany. He is the editor of various publications on data, analytics and data science and is a Fellow of TDWI Germany. Before joining Zurich, he worked in consulting for more than 13 years. In his main job, he deals with showing the potential of Data and Analytics (D&A), while spreading the joy for Data and AI and is building bridges between business and IT to create a common spirit of optimism.

In addition to supposedly hot topics like AI, however, he is also responsible for defining data strategy, further developing data architecture and data governance. The combination of both areas is the foundation to walk the path with Zurich to become an Insight Driven Insurer.

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Transcript

Hadley: [00:00:00] Dr. Michael Zimmer. Welcome to the show, dude. Michael: Thanks for being here.       Hadley: Cool, cool. Listen, I've really been looking forward to this, to this, this conversation, to, to finding out what's behind you. I've always kind of, you know, read your, your, your posts online and, and the papers that you've written. And I just find it.

[00:00:22] Yeah. You know, that mix between, um, between deep thinking and humour and just you know, um, yeah, zest for life. And, uh, I see that in you. I w I kind of, I identify with that, you know, and, um, and yeah, I'm, I'm looking forward to finding out what's behind the man. 

[00:00:41] Michael: [00:00:41] Yeah. I hope, uh, um, yeah, much, but we'll see. You ask the questions.

[00:00:47] Um, 

[00:00:48] Hadley: [00:00:48] okay, cool. Yeah. So, so number one, I, look, I always ask my guests right at the start is what does curiosity mean to you?

[00:00:54] Michael: [00:00:54] So I think in the beginning, if I think of curiosity, um, I think about my youth and, um, I think it was an Australian TV show called curiosity show, um, where they showed all kind of research things.

[00:01:09] So that comes to my mind. If I look to it, literally. Curiosity is for me. Um, so I want to have fun at work. I want to, um, develop new things, get new ideas. So for me, uh, it's important, um, to be curious, because it helps me to redefine myself, got to understand new things, um, and also to become a better me, um, personal business, but also from a family point of view.

[00:01:40] So, um, it's important to learn and be curious. 

[00:01:44] Hadley: [00:01:44] Yeah, no, I know, I know that, that, you know, you have a young lad and that, you know, uh, again from your posts. I see that you're very involved as an active dad and kind of play out your curiosity through your son as well. Well, how would you say um curious or what, what part do you think curiosity plays in, in the development of a child?

[00:02:04] Michael: [00:02:04] So I think in the end, um, uh, growing up and, um, for a kid it's about stimulations that we have to give them. So we have to be there. We have to talk with them. We have to interact, but in the end they want to understand the world. They want to see the things and they want to be curious with their own eyes.

[00:02:26] So I think for me, Um, curiosity is something that is driving the kids. Um, they don't know it, but they want to explore. They have to explore. And maybe it's also by evolution that they have to do it because, um, there is a German kids show where they are...

Pat Renzi is a Principal at Milliman and the CEO of Milliman’s Life Technology Solutions business.

Having spent 30 years providing commercial technology solutions to support actuaries in risk management, product development, and financial reporting, she is passionate about leveraging technology to allow insurers to better serve their customers, their employees, and their shareholders.

Pat is a strong advocate for more diversity within actuarial science and technology, understanding the importance of diversity in background as we expand the use of data in driving decisions. Pat is the Chairperson of Milliman’s Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion Committee and is working with a small group of insurers to leverage technology to provide resiliency strategies to Black-Owned small businesses

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Transcript

Hadley: [00:00:00] So Pat, welcome to the show. 

[00:00:03] Patricia Renzi: [00:00:03] Thank you very much for having me glad to be here. 

[00:00:05] Hadley: [00:00:05] I cannot begin to tell you how much of an honour it is to be having this conversation with you to be, to have you on my show. I think hands down you are one of the most inspiring leaders that I've ever had the pleasure of working with hats off, um, and much respect.

[00:00:22] Patricia Renzi: Thank you very much. Hadley: Okay. So back, I normally kick off the show by asking people one simple question. Uh, what does curiosity mean to you?

[00:00:31] Patricia Renzi: [00:00:31] So whenever I hear the word curiosity, I always think of curious, George and I love curious, George, and, and the reason I love curious George is because he just always wants to learn, you know, he just dives in and he's so excited about learning new things.

[00:00:51] And that's what curiosity means to me is just that, that passion around learning new things and wanting to just dive in, explore, jump from thing to thing and just, you know, always want to learn more. So that's what curiosity means to me 

[00:01:06] Hadley: [00:01:06] that I think captures it perfectly. So, okay. Back now, again, you know, this is a campfire, like type discussion.

[00:01:15] Um, and essentially we just gonna talk about you, um, and find out what's behind the woman. Right. Um, and generally where we start with that is right at the beginning. So where you were born parents siblings. 

[00:01:30] Patricia Renzi: [00:01:30] So, um, I am the middle of three girls, um, and I was born in Westchester, Pennsylvania, so small town outside of Philadelphia.

[00:01:44] Uh, my mother and father were both born and raised in Westchester. Um, Farmers.      Hadley: Okay. What kind of farmers? Patricia Renzi: Uh, so my mother's family was, um, they had milk cows and then they also raised sheep. 

[00:02:04] Hadley: [00:02:04] Okay. So did you grow up on a farm?

[00:02:05] Patricia Renzi: [00:02:05] I did not, no. my, both my parents. 

[00:02:10] Hadley: [00:02:10] Okay. So your parents and their families were farmers.

[00:02:13] Patricia Renzi: [00:02:13] Yeah. So, and my grandfather, um, on both sides, they still had farms. So as a child, we would go to the farms. And so, yeah. 

[00:02:24] Hadley: [00:02:24] Understood. Okay. So you used to the, not necessarily just the Philly kind of inner city life, but the, the big wide open world and which is...

Toju Duke is an EMEA Responsible AI Program Manager at Google with over 15 years experience spanning Advertising, Retail, Not-For-Profits, and Tech.

She designs Responsible AI Programs focussed on the development and implementation of Ethical AI frameworks amongst Google's product teams. She is committed to driving social justice through AI while acknowledging the diverse backgrounds, cultures and ethnicities of society, and ensuring Responsible AI frameworks are applied to developing such technologies.

She is a prolific public speaker with a proven track record on business success and project management. In addition, she is the Founder of Refyne, a Manager for Women in AI Ireland, Head of Black and Brilliant AI solutions, and Tech start-up Mentor and Business Advisor

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Transcript

Hadley: [00:00:00] Tells you absolute pleasure to see you again after so many years. And welcome to the show.

[00:00:05] Toju: [00:00:05] Thank you very much, Hadley. Good to see you again as well. 

[00:00:09] Hadley: [00:00:09] Awesome. So, so listen, as you know, this is a show where essentially we want to, we want to find out in this case, the woman behind the movement, right.

[00:00:17] And we want to know more about you. So, uh, we kind of take this approach of campfire, like discussions where imagine you're sitting around a campfire, telling the story of our life and yeah, you're up, you know, but before we get into Toju and what makes her tick, um, I've got one question that I ask each guest.

[00:00:36] Uh, and this is what does curiosity mean to you?

[00:00:38] Toju: [00:00:38] Yeah, that's a, that's a good question. Um, I always say about curiosity did not kill the cat because where we grew up, we grew up with the saying of curiosity, killed the cat. So don't be too curious cause it can get killed and I've learned that that's not the case.

[00:00:52] So I think for me, curiosity is just having a genuine hunger and thirst to learn more. And to know more, to understand what lies beneath the surface on different subject topics on subject matters. So it's, um, just wanting to go deeper, dig a little bit deeper, being willing and open to learn new things.

[00:01:14] And if you hear about a certain concept, just being curious enough to know what it means, um, why, why it exists, what are the challenges? And you find out that the more curious you are in life, it gets more interesting because you're learning so many different things and that can even help yeah. That can help with, you know, your direction in life, in your career, your personal life, you know, and you just accumulate so much knowledge by being curious.

[00:01:40] Yeah. 

[00:01:41] Hadley: [00:01:41] And do you, do you find sometimes that actually it's because having, and one of my other guests classes it as general curiosity, right. But if by having a general curiosity about things, you tend to discover more about yourself. And in fact, um, what direction. You want to go in right? Uh, in life and your personal life as well as professional life.

[00:02:02] Do you, do you find that statement to be accurate? 

[00:02:05] Toju: [00:02:05] Yeah, that's what's happened to me now. I got into the field of AI is from curiosity. I was just curious, what is this whole ML hype about? And there was a, uh, sales, um, there was a training for non-techies at my workplace in Google. And I, I went out of curiosity.

[00:02:20] I was like, I...

Udo Sglavo is Vice President of Analytics R&D at analytics powerhouse SAS, where he is passionate about shaping the vision and directing the implementation of some of the world's most powerful analytical techniques. SAS has been applying analytics to complex business problems for decades, and in his role Udo has the privilege of leading a team of highly skilled individuals responsible for building and testing the SAS analytical ecosystem.

He received a diploma in mathematics from the University of Applied Sciences, Darmstadt, Germany and is a proud holder of several patents in the area of advance analytics.

He formed part of the team responsible for editing the original volume of Business Forecasting: Practical Problems and Solutions and the new volume, Business Forecasting: The Emerging Role of Artificial Intelligence and Machine Learning, will be released in Spring 2021.

Sponsor Information

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Transcript

Hadley: [00:00:00] Udo. Welcome to the show, dude. 

[00:00:04] Udo: [00:00:04] How are you doing?

[00:00:05] Hadley: [00:00:05] All right, mate. Doing all right. And, uh, yeah, looking forward to just finding out more about Udo. I'm really looking forward to this interview, dude. 

[00:00:14] Udo: [00:00:14] Hey Hadley. First of all, thank you so much for having me. I'm really looking forward to our discussion.

[00:00:19] That should be a lot of fun. 

[00:00:21] Hadley: [00:00:21] Okay, cool. So, uh, to kick things off I normally ask my guests, what does curiosity mean to you? 

[00:00:29] Udo: [00:00:29] Well, Hadley, that's already a, an awesome question because, uh, I, I truly believe that we live and, uh, in the century of curiosity really, we do, but what does it mean to me? I think curiosity is the first stage for creativity and what I mean by that is, you know, in order to be creative in order to.

[00:00:55] You know, solve problems, which we may have never seen before or problems, which we are aware of, but we just didn't have the means to solve them previously. You know, we need a lot of creativity in our day and age, but typically it's curiosity, which points you in the direction of these problems, you know, it's like, well, why is this happening?

[00:01:20] Why is this a problem in the first place? You know, or, you know, why haven't we talked about this previously? So I frankly wouldn't label mySCLf as a very curious person. I really don't try, but, you know, I think when I sink my teeth into something, right, I get really curious. Right. You know, so what I mean by that Hadley is, um, you know, I'm not the type of person who is kind of driving

[00:01:50] or is curious about many different things. Right. You know, like today I'm curious about that. And tomorrow I'm curious about this, you know, I think I'm more narrow in my focus to be frank

[00:02:02] Hadley: [00:02:02] understood and I do get that. And I think, um, I'm kind of the same as that. It's not that I want to know a little bit about everything, but it's when something piques my curiosity, then, you know, that's when kind of this, this, uh, process kicks in and then you want to find out more.

[00:02:20] And as I've said before, you know, I, I find that curiosity is an enabler to discovery and a discovery of SCLf. So you start to understand a bit more about what you like and what you are interested in. And then obviously also discovery of the topic itSCLf, because normally there's so many different layers.

[00:02:38] Udo: [00:02:39] I like that. I...

Richard Potter advises business leaders around the world on a range of digital transformation challenges. However, it's the building of innovative enterprises that is his real passion.

In his day job, Richard works with Microsoft's customers giving them clarity and confidence about their digital journeys, helping them turn their aspirations into transformational business results.

He is a renowned keynote speaker and event facilitator with an energising and engaging style. He lives in the UK but travels extensively, shamelessly collecting and telling stories everywhere he goes.

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Transcript

Hadley: [00:00:00] So welcome to the show, Richard. Great to have you. 

[00:00:04] Richard: [00:00:04] It's great to be here. Great to be here. 

[00:00:07] Hadley: [00:00:07] Cool. So, so look as you know, We want to essentially get to understand the essence of our guests, right? Uh, we want to know what makes you tick. We want to know what brings you alive, and we want to know how the trait of curiosity has impacted you over your life and career, uh, from when you were young through to now.

[00:00:26] Uh, so, so what we'll do is we will have campfire, like discussions, uh, imagine yourself sitting around a campfire and we telling the story of our lives and tag. You it. So before we get into the, the essence of Richard, tell me what does curiosity mean to you? 

[00:00:48] Richard: [00:00:48] Wow. I would say Hadley. I think curiosity ultimately is the measure of your success to navigate the world.

[00:00:56] It's just, it's so important to me, what it really is in my head at least, is that little sweet spot between humility and confidence. It's the humility to recognize that there's learning everywhere, but it's, it's coupled with that, that self-confidence to investigate and make sense of it. And it's that fine balance between those two bits and your ability to sit in that sweet spot I would contend is the greatest ability that you can have in your life.

[00:01:34] Hadley: [00:01:34] That makes sense. In fact, I think I take the confidence thing just one step further and saying it's also the confidence to ask questions because so many people don't have the confidence to ask questions. Then most of the times everybody else in the room would ask if only they had the self-confidence to know that the lack of understanding a specific question, or having the answer to a specific question, doesn't define your worth.

[00:02:01] Richard: [00:02:01] Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's so, that's so true, Hadley. It is that confidence of inquiry. Isn't it, rather than the confidence of conceit in thinking that there is no more to know. So it is. Yeah. I mean, it's in that, that location. 

[00:02:18] Hadley: [00:02:18] Awesome. I love that. In fact, one of the things I always say is, and this it's not being cocky, but it's being confident in your ability to learn something.

[00:02:27] And I firmly believe that I can do anything that anyone else can do. As long as I've had the same exposure to get to that point because nobody just knows what they know or can do what they do well without what has come before.

[00:02:42] Richard: [00:02:42] So that's great. And you know, a nice thing. This is what the topic of your conversations are with, with your guest in this space.

[00:02:50] Is, is that, that, that exposure, how did everybody through exposure through their lives, equip themselves with the ability to be curious. That's where we...

Oliver Schabenberger is Chief Innovation Officer at SingleStore. He is a former academian and seasoned technology executive with more than 20 years global experience in data management, advanced analytics and AI. Oliver formerly served as COO and CTO of SAS, where he lead the design, development and go to-market-effort of massively scaleable analytic tools and solutions and helped organisations become more data driven. He is a fellow of the American Statistical Association, has co-authored three books, and earned Ph.D and M.S. degrees from Virginia Tech.

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Interview transcript

Hadley: [00:00:00] Welcome to the show. Oliver. It's an absolute honor to have you on. 

[00:00:04] Oliver: [00:00:04] Thank you, Hadley. I'm delighted to be here. I'm delighted to be on a curious life. And I'm curious what we're going to talk about in this podcast. 

[00:00:13] Hadley: [00:00:13] Well, as you know, like Peter pan shadow, we're going to go off and find the essence of Oliver today.

[00:00:20] Oliver: [00:00:20] I'm curious, curious what that essence is.

[00:00:23]Hadley: [00:00:23] Let's do it. So, you know, this is a show where we look for a window into the lives of our guests. What makes you tick and, and essentially to understand the essence of you and to understand that the trait of curiosity has impacted your life in Korea. So how we do that is we imagine that we sitting around a campfire sharing stories about our life and tag.

[00:00:44] You all right. So where we'll start is where you were born, whether you had siblings, you know, what were your parents like? What was your early life like? And we'll take that all the way through to today and onto tomorrow. But before we do that, the question that I ask all my guests is what does curiosity mean?

[00:01:00] Well, I think curiosity is something in eight and all humans to different degrees. To me, it's a quality that relates to exploration, uh, inquisition and learning, you know, the drive to find out about something it's really the pursuit of knowledge. I sometimes call it lifelong learning. Um, but to me, it's about the strive to continuously improve and get.

[00:01:26] Better at something. Awesome. 

[00:01:28] And do you, do you think that's innate in children and suppressed as you get older or just inmate and the individual? I think it's 

[00:01:36] Oliver: [00:01:36] innate in the individual. Um, but I think you can suppress it and, and you could, could block us around it. And I think we should encourage the opposite.

[00:01:46] Um, for example, when we, when we look at the qualities we like to see in individuals, we work for, we went from defining skills to emotional quotient, and today it's also something called the adaptability quotient. And that's really the, your ability to ask what if questions instead of what is right. And so what would happen if, what would happen if your top five customers leave you tomorrow?

[00:02:14] How would you deal with this? The ability to explore something. Overexploiting something and there is an immediate sense of, okay, what do I have available as technology right now? What have we built in the past? Let's start with that and build on top of that. That's exploitation, right? That's building on what you already know versus, okay.

[00:02:35] Let's step back. Let's get, give our curiosity some room to roam and imagine what it would be. And sometimes you start from marketing, you start from scratch and you can actually get you to, to where you need to go faster because you're not encumbered and you're not weighted

Riedwaan Benefeld is the CEO and founder of Jiracron, a South African consultancy dedicated to providing a platform for historically disadvantaged individuals to succeed in the world of data and analytics. As a co-founder of Sasuka Channel, one of the first channel partners to SAS in South Africa, Riedwaan was instrumental in creating a movement that trained and developed non-white individuals in the post-apartheid era. Through his efforts, they helped hundreds of individuals become successful data professionals. Many of whom have gone on to hold senior positions in large organisations or now run businesses of their own.

Continuing this work, he has renewed his deep partnership with SAS to make a difference to the lives of individuals who otherwise may not have had the opportunity. Together creating a deeper and more diverse talent pool to address the global skills shortage in the market.

Sponsorship

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Transcript

Hadley Christoffels: [00:00:00] So Riedwaan, welcome to the show. 

[00:00:01] Riedwaan Benefeld: [00:00:01] Thank you. Thank you. 

[00:00:02] Hadley Christoffels: [00:00:02] What we're going to do today. We ultimately want to understand the essence of you. We want to know who Riedwaan is, and we want to understand how the trait of curiosity has impacted your life throughout whether as a child, as you grew up in your career and where you're going from here, essentially, 

[00:00:16] Riedwaan Benefeld: [00:00:16] I'm the youngest of nine children. I was born in a place called Albertville. Yeah. I specifically mentioned in Albertville and where I was born because I didn't stay there for a long time. Um, as you know, I was born in the heart of apartheid. I mean, the reason why I mentioned Albertville, I remember very little of it. 

[00:00:37] Hadley Christoffels: [00:00:37] Okay, cool. So, so in Albertville, in Johannesburg, in South Africa, and we're in the middle of apartheid ,

[00:00:43]Riedwaan Benefeld: [00:00:43] mid sixties to late sixties, Albertville then was declared as a white area and, 

[00:00:51] Hadley Christoffels: [00:00:51] and maybe the significance of that as well. Right? Cause I think this is actually a key part and maybe this is where you're going, but this seems like a key part of, of, of the future story, which we'll get to. Right. But, but what the impact of that, because my, like when my parents grew up in port, Elizabeth was kind of a similar thing. They lived in what was a coloured area.

[00:01:08] And we do need to get into that because coloured has a different connotation in different parts of the world, right? Not like the way we know it, for instance. So tell our listeners, just like what that means. Being classed from coloured area to a white area, 

[00:01:21] Riedwaan Benefeld: [00:01:21] it means that, um, remember in apartheid, everybody everybody's segregated and it's illegal to actually live in the area that doesn't fall into your classification.

[00:01:33] So if you, you are classified as a coloured, you can't go and live in a black area or you can't go and live in an Indian area or you can go and live in a white area . So by them classifying Albertville as a white area, we had to move out 

[00:01:48]we then moved to the area called Bosmont where I'm talking to you from now. 

[00:01:54] Hadley Christoffels: [00:01:54] Cool. Back to your roots, back to my roots. 

[00:01:59] Riedwaan Benefeld: [00:01:59] Yes. The funny thing is when...