A Different Perspective

This week Nick talks to Chris Gillespie.

Chris’s career in financial services spans over 40 years. He brings extensive experience from senior leadership roles within consumer finance businesses. Prior to joining H&T, Chris served as Managing Director of the consumer credit division at Provident Financial PLC. Chris maintains a strong interest in matters affecting the wider industry and is a Fellow of the Association of Chartered Certified Accountants.

Nick and Chris discuss his extensive career in financial services, beginning at Barclays Bank and spanning several leadership roles including at Provident Financial. He shares insights into the unique hybrid model of H&T, which blends financial services and retail, operating across 285 stores nationwide. Chris highlights the evolving perception and customer base of pawnbroking in the UK, the simplicity and accessibility of its loan model, and its growing role in small business financing. He also discusses H&T’s broader services—including foreign exchange, retail of pre-owned jewellery and watches, and cheque cashing—all aimed at increasing store footfall. Emphasising the business’s community roots, counter-cyclical nature, and expansion potential, Chris notes the importance of trusted staff and store locations. The company remains focused on UK growth through store expansion and technology investment, with a strong commitment to customer service and transparency.

Chris' book choice was:
Lord of the Rings by J R R Tolkien

This content is issued by Zeus Capital Limited (“Zeus”) (Incorporated in England & Wales No. 4417845), which is authorised and regulated in the United Kingdom by the Financial Conduct Authority (“FCA”) for designated investment business, (Reg No. 224621) and is a member firm of the London Stock Exchange. This content is for information purposes only and neither the information contained, nor the opinions expressed within, constitute or are to be construed as an offer or a solicitation of an offer to buy or sell the securities or other instruments mentioned in it. Zeus shall not be liable for any direct or indirect damages, including lost profits arising in any way from the information contained in this material. This material is for the use of intended recipients only.

This week Nick talks to Judith MacKenzie.

Judith joined Downing in October 2009, bringing with her extensive experience in venture capital and fund management. Prior to this, she was a partner at Acuity Capital, where she managed AIM-listed VCT and IHT investments, as well as a small-cap activist fund. Before Acuity, Judith spent nine years as a senior investment manager at Aberdeen Asset Management Growth Capital, where she co-managed five Aberdeen VCTs, focusing on technology and media investments across both public and private companies. In 2010, she founded Downing Fund Managers, the boutique investment division of Downing LLP. Judith currently serves as Chair of the Quoted Companies Alliance and holds active board roles in both private and public sectors.

Nick and Judith discuss her journey into finance, inspired by working in her parents’ small businesses in the Scottish Highlands. Her early exposure to economics and investing sparked a lifelong interest in smaller companies. She discusses her career progression from stockbroking to fund management, emphasising her focus on UK micro-cap and smaller companies through Downing’s IHT (Inheritance Tax) service. Judith explains the appeal of AIM-listed firms due to their tax benefits and potential for strong returns, highlighting a hands-on, diligent investment approach that mirrors private equity standards. She identifies three key types of companies she targets: value compounders, self-help businesses, and balance sheet leaders—mentioning Ramsdens, James Latham, and Flowtech as examples. Judith critiques the negative narrative around AIM, advocating for its role in supporting entrepreneurial growth and job creation. She expresses hope for a shift back to active investing and UK-focused capital deployment, especially in light of current global economic uncertainties and US-centric fund flows. 

Judith's book choice was:
Vassal State: How America Runs Britain by Angus Hanton

Judith's music choice was:
Human by The Killers

This content is issued by Zeus Capital Limited (“Zeus”) (Incorporated in England & Wales No. 4417845), which is authorised and regulated in the United Kingdom by the Financial Conduct Authority (“FCA”) for designated investment business, (Reg No. 224621) and is a member firm of the London Stock Exchange. This content is for information purposes only and neither the information contained, nor the opinions expressed within, constitute or are to be construed as an offer or a solicitation of an offer to buy or sell the securities or other instruments mentioned in it. Zeus shall not be liable for any direct or indirect damages, including lost profits arising in any way from the information contained in this material. This material is for the use of intended recipients only.

This week Nick talks to Parmy Olson.

Parmy Olson is a prominent technology journalist and author, currently a columnist for Bloomberg Opinion. She previously covered tech and innovation for The Wall Street Journal and Forbes, with a focus on AI, robotics, and emerging technologies. In 2012, she published We Are Anonymous, an acclaimed deep dive into the hacker groups Anonymous and LulzSec. Her 2024 book, Supremacy: AI, ChatGPT, and the Race That Will Change the World, explores the rivalry between tech giants like OpenAI and DeepMind in the pursuit of artificial general intelligence, earning the Financial Times Business Book of the Year Award.

Nick and Parmy discuss the intense race to develop artificial general intelligence (AGI) and the far-reaching implications of that pursuit. Their conversation highlights the contrast between the idealistic visions of DeepMind’s Demis Hassabis and OpenAI’s Sam Altman—who saw AGI as a force for solving global challenges—and the reality that both ultimately became deeply tied to tech giants like Google and Microsoft to fund their ambitions. Parmy explains how this reliance shifted the focus away from social good and towards corporate interests. Together, they explore the broader consequences of this power shift, including the lack of meaningful regulation, ongoing ethical concerns around bias and safety in AI models, and the growing dominance of a few large tech firms. They also reflect on the social risks—from job losses and the disruption of traditional career paths to the emotional dependency people are beginning to form with chatbots—raising important questions about the kind of future society is heading towards.

Parmy's Book Choice was:
Born to Run by Christopher Mcdougall
Parmy's Music Choice was:
Rumours by Fleetwood Mac

This content is issued by Zeus Capital Limited (“Zeus”) (Incorporated in England & Wales No. 4417845), which is authorised and regulated in the United Kingdom by the Financial Conduct Authority (“FCA”) for designated investment business, (Reg No. 224621) and is a member firm of the London Stock Exchange. This content is for information purposes only and neither the information contained, nor the opinions expressed within, constitute or are to be construed as an offer or a solicitation of an offer to buy or sell the securities or other instruments mentioned in it. Zeus shall not be liable for any direct or indirect damages, including lost profits arising in any way from the information contained in this material. This material is for the use of intended recipients only.

This week Nick talks to Duncan Garrood

Duncan Garrood is CEO of Empiric Student Property, Originally trained as a scientist, he transitioned into the corporate world, spending 20 years at Unilever in various global roles across production, sales, and marketing. He played a key role in expanding business operations, including launching an ice cream division in China. Over the years, he took on leadership roles in hospitality, aviation, and leisure, overseeing transformations at companies like Punch Taverns and Ten Entertainment. His career has been defined by adaptability, embracing opportunities across different industries, and executing successful turnaround strategies and large-scale expansions. 

Nick and Duncan discuss strategic growth, transformation, and market positioning, particularly in the student property sector with Empiric Student Property. Duncan emphasised the importance of aligning business strategy with market demand, particularly in catering to international and postgraduate students seeking a premium, boutique accommodation experience. They explored the challenges of acquiring and optimizing property portfolios, adapting to economic shifts, and navigating investment landscapes. Duncan also highlighted the role of data-driven decision-making, customer-centric business models, and maintaining a strong brand identity, drawing parallels between his past experiences in multinational corporations and property investment. 

Duncan's Book Choice was:
I, Robot - Isaac Asimov
https://onlineshop.oxfam.org.uk/i-robot/product/HD_302753825?sku=HD_302753825

Duncan's Music Choice was:
Pink Floyd - Shine On You Crazy Diamond
https://open.spotify.com/track/6pnwfWyaWjQiHCKTiZLItr

This content is issued by Zeus Capital Limited (“Zeus”) (Incorporated in England & Wales No. 4417845), which is authorised and regulated in the United Kingdom by the Financial Conduct Authority (“FCA”) for designated investment business, (Reg No. 224621) and is a member firm of the London Stock Exchange. This content is for information purposes only and neither the information contained, nor the opinions expressed within, constitute or are to be construed as an offer or a solicitation of an offer to buy or sell the securities or other instruments mentioned in it. Zeus shall not be liable for any direct or indirect damages, including lost profits arising in any way from the information contained in this material. This material is for the use of intended recipients only.

This week Nick talks to George Ensor

George Ensor is the portfolio manager for the RGI UK Listed Smaller Companies Fund and the River UK Micro Cap Investment Trust. He joined River Global Investors in 2014 as a UK equity analyst, following his role as a private client investment manager at Smith & Williamson Investment Management. George holds a degree in Chemistry from the University of Bristol and is a CFA Charterholder. 
 
Nick and George discuss, his journey into investment management, starting with his chemistry degree and eventual move into equities, driven by the challenge of taking contrarian views in the market. He outlines his experience at Smith & Williamson, where he gained exposure to global multi-asset management, client service, and investment allocation. Transitioning to River Global (formerly River & Mercantile), he details the firm's evolution, including its listing and eventual return to a boutique-style setup. He explains the structural differences between open-ended small-cap funds and closed-ended micro-cap investment trusts, emphasising how micro-cap funds exploit liquidity premiums and offer high-conviction investments.

George also discusses the challenges and opportunities within UK small-cap investing, noting cyclical market trends, liquidity constraints, and shifts in investor sentiment. He highlights how UK small caps have been underperforming large caps due to external factors like interest rates, economic cycles, and regulatory changes. He believes in the long-term growth potential of UK small caps, citing past market recoveries and potential reforms such as pension fund adjustments and British ISAs. The conversation further delves into investment strategies, including the balance between growth, quality, and recovery stocks, and explores specific holdings like Keystone Law, DF Capital, and Renold. He expresses concerns about undervaluation in the market, private equity takeovers, and the impact of passive investing on small-cap liquidity. Despite current challenges, he remains optimistic about the cyclical return of capital inflows into UK equities and the opportunities available for disciplined investors.

George's book choices where:
Thinking in Bets: Making Smarter Decisions When You Don't Have All the Facts - Annie Duke
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Thinking-Bets-Annie-Duke/dp/0735216371/
Quit: The Power of Knowing When to Walk Away - Annie Duke
https://uk.bookshop.org/p/books/quit-the-power-of-knowing-when-to-walk-away-annie-duke/7098911

George's music choice was:
The Best by Tina Turner
https://open.spotify.com/track/4OeFQtRyT7vsLnRTv7t8YT

This content is issued by Zeus Capital Limited (“Zeus”) (Incorporated in England & Wales No. 4417845), which is authorised and regulated in the United Kingdom by the Financial Conduct Authority (“FCA”) for designated investment business, (Reg No. 224621) and is a member firm of the London Stock Exchange. This content is for information purposes only and neither the information contained, nor the opinions expressed within, constitute or are to be construed as an offer or a solicitation of an offer to buy or sell the securities or other instruments mentioned in it. Zeus shall not be liable for any direct or indirect damages, including lost profits arising in any way from the information contained in this material. This material is for the use of intended recipients only.

In this bonus episode Nick talks to Jeff Chatfield.

Jeff serves as the Executive Chairman of Avation PLC and played a pivotal role in its founding and development. Throughout his career, he has held management and directorial positions in various companies across sectors such as the airline industry, data distribution, electronics, investment, broadcasting, and manufacturing. He holds both a Bachelor of Engineering and a Master of Engineering Science from the University of Western Australia. Additionally, he is a graduate member of the Australian Institute of Company Directors and a Fellow of the Singapore Institute of Directors. 

Nick and Jeff discus the company’s recent half-year results and market position. Jeff highlights Avation’s strong financial performance, including increased revenue and reduced net debt. He also discusses the company’s aircraft leasing portfolio, noting a recent acquisition of an Etihad-operated Airbus A320. Despite these positive results, Avation's share price remains undervalued at 50% of net asset value (NAV), which Jeff attributes to investor unfamiliarity with the aircraft leasing sector and the company’s London Stock Exchange listing. He suggests that moving to a higher-tier market segment could help attract more investors.

The conversation also touches on Avation’s debt structure and potential refinancing opportunities. Jeff explains that a $330 million bond maturing in 2026 could be refinanced as early as 2025, potentially lowering interest costs and improving cash flow. He emphasizes the importance of dividends to investors and notes strong shareholder support for past dividend payouts. Looking ahead, Avation aims to continue growing its fleet and improving shareholder value, with strategies such as increasing investor engagement and possibly integrating with a larger leasing business for better financing terms.

Jeff's Book choice was:
The Proof of My Innocence by Jonathan Coe
https://www.waterstones.com/book/9780241678411

This content is issued by Zeus Capital Limited (“Zeus”) (Incorporated in England & Wales No. 4417845), which is authorised and regulated in the United Kingdom by the Financial Conduct Authority (“FCA”) for designated investment business, (Reg No. 224621) and is a member firm of the London Stock Exchange. This content is for information purposes only and neither the information contained, nor the opinions expressed within, constitute or are to be construed as an offer or a solicitation of an offer to buy or sell the securities or other instruments mentioned in it. Zeus shall not be liable for any direct or indirect damages, including lost profits arising in any way from the information contained in this material. This material is for the use of intended recipients only.

This week Nick talks to Andrew Jones

Andrew led Metric Property Investments Plc as co-founder and CEO from its launch in March 2010 until its successful merger with London & Stamford in January 2013, when he took the helm as Chief Executive of the newly formed LondonMetric. His extensive real estate experience includes a pivotal role at British Land, where he served as Executive Director and Head of Retail after joining through the Pillar acquisition in 2005. As a Board member at British Land, he oversaw shopping centers and retail park portfolios. Currently, Andrew brings his expertise to InstaVolt, a leading electric vehicle charging network, as a Non-Executive Director. He previously served on the Board of Unite plc for six years as a Non-Executive Director.

In this episode, Nick and Andrew explore his career journey and insights into the real estate industry. Andrew shares how his early interest in investing led him to a career in commercial real estate, starting in the late 1980s during a recession. He discusses his experience working with major firms like British Land before founding London Metric Property in 2010. The conversation covers the evolution of retail, from high streets to retail parks, the impact of online shopping, and the importance of understanding consumer behaviour. Andrew also explains LondonMetric’s focus on resilient sectors like logistics, convenience retail, healthcare, entertainment and leisure, along with their asset management strategy, including “triple net” leases and tenant mix optimisation.
 
Looking ahead, Andrew shares his perspective on growth opportunities through acquisitions and strategic mergers while maintaining a focus on the UK market. He highlights the challenges of high street retail compared to retail parks and discusses LondonMetric’s approach to income generation and long-term investing.

Andrew's book choices where:
Barbarians at the Gate by Bryan Burrough
https://www.worldofbooks.com/en-gb/products/barbarians-at-the-gate-book-bryan-burrough-9780099469155
The Predators' Ball by Connie Bruck
https://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=31852760243
The Big Short by Michael Lewis
https://www.worldofbooks.com/en-gb/products/big-short-book-michael-lewis-9781846142574
Adventures in Time: Nelson, Hero of the Seas by Dominic Sandbrook
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Adventures-Time-Nelson-Hero-Seas/dp/0241552214/

Andrew's podcast choices where:
We Study Billionaires - The Investor’s Podcast Network
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/we-study-billionaires-the-investors-podcast-network/id928933489

Acquired with Ben Gilbert and David Rosenthal
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/acquired/id1050462261

This content is issued by Zeus Capital Limited (“Zeus”) (Incorporated in England & Wales No. 4417845), which is authorised and regulated in the United Kingdom by the Financial Conduct Authority (“FCA”) for designated investment business, (Reg No. 224621) and is a member firm of the London Stock Exchange. This content is for information purposes only and neither the information contained, nor the opinions expressed within, constitute or are to be construed as an offer or a solicitation of an offer to buy or sell the securities or other instruments mentioned in it. Zeus shall not be liable for any direct or indirect damages, including lost profits arising in any way from the information contained in this material. This material is for the use of intended recipients only.

This week Nick talks to Steve Ruffley
 
Steve Ruffley is a professional trader of nearly 25 years. Steve offers personalised trading risk management and mentoring packages and is a published author with The Pro Retail Trader: How to Generate Professional-level Returns as a Retail Trader.
 
The discussion explores Steve Ruffley’s career in financial markets, detailing his journey from a university dropout to a professional trader. Initially working at PricewaterhouseCoopers, he later discovered his passion for trading in Gibraltar, where he joined a proprietary trading firm. Ruffley reflects on the challenges of professional trading, including high financial targets and the transition from floor trading to electronic platforms. After a stint in risk management, he returned to independent trading, focusing on indices and forex. He emphasises the importance of discipline, confidence, and quick decision-making in trading, distinguishing between retail and professional approaches. Steve also shares insights on market adaptability, critiques the growing influence of AI in trading, and discusses his latest book, The Pro Retail Trader, which aims to guide retail traders in advancing their skills. He expresses scepticism toward Bitcoin as a tradable asset and highlights the role of algorithmic trading. 

 
Steve's published books are:
The Pro Retail Trader: How to Generate Professional-level Returns as a Retail Trader
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Pro-Retail-Trader-Generate-Professional-level/dp/1804091375

The Ruff Guide to Trading: Make Money in the Markets
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ruff-Guide-Trading-Money-Markets/dp/0857194003/

Steve's film choice was: Rocky IV
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Rocky-IV-Vs-Drago/dp/B09MNTHVQZ

Steve's Music choices where:
Battleship Chain by The Georgia Satellites
https://open.spotify.com/track/0dJEQ01IPN4ukqRsPrm4ab

This content is issued by Zeus Capital Limited (“Zeus”) (Incorporated in England & Wales No. 4417845), which is authorised and regulated in the United Kingdom by the Financial Conduct Authority (“FCA”) for designated investment business, (Reg No. 224621) and is a member firm of the London Stock Exchange. This content is for information purposes only and neither the information contained, nor the opinions expressed within, constitute or are to be construed as an offer or a solicitation of an offer to buy or sell the securities or other instruments mentioned in it. Zeus shall not be liable for any direct or indirect damages, including lost profits arising in any way from the information contained in this material. This material is for the use of intended recipients only.

Season 4 kicks off with Nick talking to friend of the show, Dr Daniel Daniel who runs the The Crypto Investing Program.

Since the U.S. election in November  Bitcoin has experienced a significant bull run, with its price surging from approximately $69,000 on Election Day to over $100,000 by mid-January 2025. This upward trajectory is largely attributed to the election of President Donald Trump, who has expressed strong support for cryptocurrencies. His administration's pro-crypto stance, including plans to establish the U.S. as a "crypto capital" and the appointment of digital assets expert Paul Atkins as SEC Chair, has bolstered investor confidence.

Nick and Daniel discuss the state of the cryptocurrency market in early 2025. Daniel attributes the current bull run to cyclical market patterns, the halving event, and President Trump's pro-crypto stance. He highlights Bitcoin's rise to over $100,000, predicts its peak around $150,000 during this cycle, and emphasizes its role as a store of generational wealth akin to gold. Daniel explains his preference for altcoins, which offer higher short-term returns, and shares insights into selecting promising projects using his "golden list." He also warns of the prevalence of scams in the crypto space and advises caution. The conversation touches on the potential impact of spot ETFs and the importance of timing in the volatile crypto market. 

Daniel's Music choices where:
Music by Madonna
https://open.spotify.com/track/2fzykVsO2Di5jnofUNX3YE
Bryan Adams Summer of 69
https://open.spotify.com/track/0GONea6G2XdnHWjNZd6zt3
Good Feeling Song by Flo Rida
https://open.spotify.com/track/2LEF1A8DOZ9wRYikWgVlZ8

This content is issued by Zeus Capital Limited (“Zeus”) (Incorporated in England & Wales No. 4417845), which is authorised and regulated in the United Kingdom by the Financial Conduct Authority (“FCA”) for designated investment business, (Reg No. 224621) and is a member firm of the London Stock Exchange. This content is for information purposes only and neither the information contained, nor the opinions expressed within, constitute or are to be construed as an offer or a solicitation of an offer to buy or sell the securities or other instruments mentioned in it. Zeus shall not be liable for any direct or indirect damages, including lost profits arising in any way from the information contained in this material. This material is for the use of intended recipients only.

This week Nick talks to Matt Timmins

Matt was appointed to the FINTEL Board in May 2010 after joining in 2002, bringing extensive expertise in sales, marketing, and mergers and acquisitions. He has cultivated strong relationships with key distribution partners and holds a Postgraduate Diploma in Marketing from the Chartered Institute of Marketing (CIM). With a background that includes various marketing roles at GE Capital, Misys, and DBS Financial Management, Matt combines deep industry knowledge with strategic leadership.

Nick and Matt talk about Matt's career, how FINTEL grew out of SimpyBiz to becoming the UK's leading financial services platform.

Matt's book choice where:
Rich Dad Poor Dad: by Robert T. Kiyosaki
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Rich-Dad-Poor-Teach-Middle/dp/1612680194
Greenlights by Matthew McConaughey or the Audio Book
,
Matt music choice's where:
Urban Hymns - The Verve
https://open.spotify.com/album/52AeC4gwbxDfFlLHgK1ByD
Orinoco Flow (Sail Away) by Enya
https://open.spotify.com/track/0Fyj9w0HVfjoxm9S8nGClt
Fix You by Coldplay
https://open.spotify.com/track/7LVHVU3tWfcxj5aiPFEW4Q

This content is issued by Zeus Capital Limited (“Zeus”) (Incorporated in England & Wales No. 4417845), which is authorised and regulated in the United Kingdom by the Financial Conduct Authority (“FCA”) for designated investment business, (Reg No. 224621) and is a member firm of the London Stock Exchange. This content is for information purposes only and neither the information contained, nor the opinions expressed within, constitute or are to be construed as an offer or a solicitation of an offer to buy or sell the securities or other instruments mentioned in it. Zeus shall not be liable for any direct or indirect damages, including lost profits arising in any way from the information contained in this material. This material is for the use of intended recipients only.