Today, we're talking about people who think Roberts Rules is an acceptable form of bullying. It turns out, shouting "Point of order! Point of order!" over and over again is not an excuse to get up in a parliamentarian's personal space. Our conversation is inspired by Deborah Copperud's recent experience at the Minneapolis DFL City Convention. We talk about what's wrong with the DFL process, some potential solutions, and importantly, why those fixes will never happen. In a surprising twist, we agree the current deeply flawed process is still better than a primary.

John's guests are Conrad Zbikowski, new chair of the Minneapolis DFL, and Deborah Copperud of the new substack "Deborah Copperud Shops at Target."

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