Last year, Jack Hanley—one of New York’s most beloved and idiosyncratic gallerists— announced he would close his gallery after 37 years in business. The news landed with both surprise and sadness: Hanley has always been a disruptor, a dealer with a sharp eye for fresh talent, who followed instinct over market logic. A gem of the New York art scene and beyond.

Over the decades, Hanley gave early shows to artists like Günther Förg, Christopher Wool, Sophie Calle, and Christian Marclay—and all of that was long before they became art-world names they are now. He helped define the San Francisco scene of the 1990s, championed artists who blurred lines between high and low and made challenging work; and more recently, even gave the digital artist Beeple his first-ever gallery show. As a former Grateful Dead roadie, avid orchid grower, art fair founder, and having run galleries in several cities, he’s seen a lot. And played music with more than a few art dealers.

Hanley joins senior editor Kate Brown to discuss transformation and continuity in the art world and art industry. We talk about what’s changed, what hasn’t, and what keeps art interesting, even as the market has grown more absurd.