Change programmes don’t fail because the plan is wrong.

They fail when the human experience is ignored.

In this episode of Across the Table, host Joe Perry is joined by Tara Jones, founder of The Good Change Consultancy, to explore what it really takes to lead change while protecting dignity, trust, and working relationships.

From system rollouts and restructures to new policies and operating models, organisations often pour time and money into business cases, timelines, and governance, while missing a simple truth: change only happens through people.

Drawing on decades of experience across central government, policing, higher education, charities, and highly unionised environments, Tara shares practical insights on:
- why “change resistance” is a misleading label
- why comms alone won’t build trust
- how dignity becomes the first casualty of poorly handled change and how leaders can make space for honest conversations without slowing delivery

This is a grounded, practical conversation about leadership, employee voice, compassionate challenge, and how to move away from permanent crisis mode, toward change that actually sticks.

We discuss
- Why change programmes lose sight of people [00:00]
- Dignity at work and the human cost of transformation [03:48]
- Why “change resistance” is the wrong diagnosis [07:25]
- Meaningful involvement vs “just doing some comms” [07:25]
- Outcomes before plans: what leaders get wrong [11:22]
- Trust, honesty, and saying “I don’t know” [12:39]
- Crisis mode, BAU, and fractured relationships [16:23]
- Compassionate challenge and asking better questions [19:38]
- Why honouring people can speed up delivery [22:36]
- One simple Monday-morning change leaders can try [25:16]

Chapters
- [00:00] Change programmes & the missing human truth
- [03:48] Dignity at work during transformation
- [07:25] Rethinking “change resistance”
- [11:22] Outcomes vs delivery plans
- [14:12] Leadership, urgency & space to think
- [16:23] Crisis culture & BAU reality
- [19:38] Compassionate challenge
- [22:36] Does human-centred change slow delivery?
- [25:16] A practical change you can make next week
- [26:45] Wrap-up & reflections

Where to find Tara Jones
- LinkedIn: Tara Jones
- Website: The Good Change Consultancy

Host: Joe Perry
- LinkedIn: Joe Perry
- Newsletter: Across the Table by Joe Perry
- Website: collaboratER

About the show
Across the Table is about the conversations that shape work - and the people who have them. Thoughtful, grounded talks about how work works.

For sponsorship inquiries email: [email protected]

Deb Rees (HR Manager at LSN Diffusion) returns for Episode 2, fresh from attending the CBI Roundtable in London and appearing on the BBC Radio 4 Today Programme.

This episode explores how SMEs can prepare without panic as workplaces face major changes: the Keep Britain Working Review, the Employment Rights Bill, rising conflict and pressure on small HR teams.

Host Joe Perry looks at practical steps small organisations can take before changes land.

⚠️ Legislative Update: Recorded before the 27 Nov 2025 announcement. Unfair dismissal protection will now start after six months, not day one. Day-one rights to SSP and paternity leave are still due from April 2026.

• Deb’s week: CBI Roundtable + BBC Radio 4 Today Programme [01:20]
• Why UK HR is facing a “perfect storm” of pressures [02:40]
• Deb’s SME HR framework: kindness, development, belonging [04:39]
• Sick pay changes: SSP, waiting days & early contact [05:55]
• Why letting sickness drift is “unkind” — and what SMEs must do [07:57]
• Day-one rights: what changes and what SMEs need to prepare [10:10]
• Conflict, tribunals & conciliation delays — early resolution [13:23]
• Line manager capability & why soft skills training matters [17:35]
• Wellbeing, neurodiversity & building belonging at work [21:34]

• [00:08] Intro + Deb’s week: CBI + BBC Radio 4
• [02:40] The “perfect storm”
• [04:39] SME HR priorities
• [05:55] SSP & sickness changes
• [07:57] Why absence drift is unkind
• [10:10] Day-one rights & probation
• [13:23] Conflict & early resolution
• [17:35] Manager capability
• [21:34] Wellbeing & belonging
• [25:00] Wrap-up

• LinkedIn: Deb Rees
• Website: LSN Diffusion

• Keep Britain Working Review
• ACAS & early conciliation
• Skilled Managers Programme (Professor Saundry)

• LinkedIn: Joe Perry
• Newsletter: Across the Table
• Website: CollaboratER.org

Across the Table explores the conversations that shape work - and the people who have them. Practical, grounded discussions for HR professionals, managers, and leaders navigating modern ER and HR challenges.

For sponsorship inquiries: [email protected]

Deb Rees is the HR Manager at LSN Diffusion, a manufacturing SME in South Wales. Over recent years, her team has halved sickness absence (6% → ~2–3.5%), cut turnover (33% → 7.5%), and strengthened trust and engagement - all without corporate bureaucracy.

In this first episode, Deb joins host Joe Perry to share a practical SME HR “playbook” you can use on Monday morning.

We discuss:

• Why SME HR can move faster - and where it’s uniquely hard [03:13]
• Examples of “small org speed”: shift patterns, medical support, hardship loans [03:50]
• The “family feel”: how proximity helps (and sometimes hurts) engagement [04:52]
• Absence management that works: cost analysis, policy, training, KPIs [08:07]
• Sustaining results: pay, bonuses, data culture, transparency [11:01]
• How absence links to conflict and why honesty + support beat punishment [13:54]
• Lifelong learning as a culture shift [16:31]
• Avoiding overwhelm: imperfect action, self-care, networks [21:39]
• Looking ahead: AI’s promise, EDI shifts, Employment Rights Act (2025) [26:58]

Chapters

• [00:30] Intro & why SMEs matter
• [03:33] The dynamics of SME HR
• [06:22] Managing absenteeism & wellbeing
• [09:38] Making policy & training stick
• [12:22] Professional development that changes culture
• [15:27] Networking, self-care, and focus
• [18:18] The future of HR
• [21:32] Wrap-up & key takeaways

Where to find Deb Rees:

• LinkedIn: Deborah Rees
• Website: LSN Diffusion

Referenced

• Keep Britain Working: Sir Charlie Mayfield
• CIPD: Health and Wellbeing Report 2025
• Daniel Barnett: Employment Law Resources

Recommended books

• Collective Employment Relations

Host: Joe Perry  

• LinkedIn: Joe Perry
• Newsletter: Across the Table
• Website: collaboratER.org

About the show
Across the Table is about the conversations that shape work - and the people who have them. Thoughtful, grounded talks about how work works.

For sponsorship inquiries email: [email protected]