Becky and her husband are about to semi-retire. But the four percent retirement withdrawal rule doesn’t make sense for them. Are there other financial frameworks they should explore?

Kris is excited about a potential boost in local real estate values when the World Cup comes to town. Will this have any significant impacts on his property?

Peyton’s parents are pressuring her to buy a house, but she’s worried this will cripple her early retirement goals. Is she right to be concerned?

Former financial planner Joe Saul-Sehy and I tackle these questions in today’s episode.

Enjoy!

P.S. Got a question? Leave it here.

_______

Becky asks (at 02:15 minutes):     How do you think about retirement and drawdown strategies when the standard four percent rule doesn’t quite fit?

My husband retired last year after 30 years in law enforcement, and we made a big move from the West Coast to southwest Florida for a fresh start. He’s 55, I’m 50, and we’re taking a sabbatical before deciding what kind of work we want to do next.

His pension, which includes survivorship benefits, covers 70 percent of our expenses, including a generous travel budget. I’ll receive a smaller pension in 2029, at which point our expenses will be fully covered.

When factoring in even a reduced Social Security, we may never need to touch our nest egg—but we have mixed feelings about that. We’d like to apply some principles from Die Broke, such as helping our 18-year-old son with a house when the time comes.

We have $1.3 million in retirement savings, split between a traditional 457 (which we can access anytime) and a Vanguard IRA. We don’t need to withdraw from this at all in 2024, thanks to cash savings covering our sabbatical.

From 2025-2029, we’d only need to withdraw 1-3 percent of our portfolio annually — likely less, since we’ll generate some income.

Our other big goals are:

Given our irregular drawdown needs, how should we approach larger one-time expenses like these? I hesitate to withdraw more than four percent in any given year, but that rule doesn’t seem like the right framework for us.

Should we take out lump sums when needed like buying a boat and paying off the house in 2029? How do we stress-test different scenarios? Or would you recommend taking a steady four percent annually and using the excess to pay down the mortgage?

We’d love some creative ideas to help us enjoy our money while keeping our financial future secure.

Kris asks (at 23:33 minutes):  I’d love to get your insight on how major sporting events impact commercial and residential real estate values. Here in Dallas, we have both the Soccer World Cup and the Olympics coming up.

Can we expect a significant boost in real estate values because of these events, or is the impact more temporary?

Peyton asks (at 43:23 minutes):    I’m listening to the March 4, 2025, episode where you discuss the calculus of buying versus renting a home, and I’d love to hear more about that framework.

I live in Salt Lake City, where renting is slightly more advantageous, and I’m planning to retire early. Because of that, I’m prioritizing tax-advantaged retirement savings and don’t want to divert funds for a down payment.

The one argument for buying that resonates with me is locking in my housing costs. I was spooked after the pandemic when my rent jumped 23 percent in two years. That kind of volatility makes it hard to budget for retirement if housing costs keep rising.

But I hesitate to pull $60,000 from my $140,000 net worth — most of which is in tax-advantaged accounts. Some funds are in a brokerage account, so it’s more accessible, but I still question whether it’s worth reallocating those funds.

I think this would make for a great discussion, whether for my situation or in general — the idea that renting isn’t necessarily “throwing money away.”

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Tax day is approaching, and if you’re like most people, you might be overlooking deductions that could save you money.

In our latest podcast episode, tax strategist Natalie Kolodij joins us to reveal common tax misconceptions and share strategies that could potentially lower your tax bill.

“The tax code is 70,000 pages,” Natalie explains. “There’s so much. So I really like to have people focus on a handful of things to be mindful of.”

For W-2 employees who often have fewer tax advantages, Natalie highlights several overlooked deductions. If you live in a state without income tax (like Florida or Washington), you can deduct sales tax instead — especially on major purchases. Don’t forget about personal property taxes on vehicles, boats or RVs either.

Medical expenses can be deductible, but only amounts exceeding 7.5 percent of your adjusted gross income. Natalie suggests consolidating elective procedures into a single tax year to maximize this benefit.

Charitable deductions offer surprising opportunities too. Miles driven while volunteering, expenses from fostering animals, and even home renovation materials donated to organizations like Habitat for Humanity can all qualify. Natalie also explains how “bunching” donations in alternate years can significantly increase tax savings compared to giving the same amount annually.

The interview tackles major misconceptions about selling your primary residence. While many believe living in a home for two years makes all gains tax-free, Natalie clarifies that any “non-qualified use” periods (like when it was a rental property) can still be taxable.

For small business owners and real estate investors, Natalie recommends tracking all business-related expenses — even seemingly minor ones like industry-related books or educational materials. She emphasizes the importance of proper record-keeping and having separate accounts for business expenses.

As we navigate tax law changes following the recent election, Natalie’s advice rings true: maintain flexibility in your tax planning and consider working with professionals who specialize in your specific situation.

Timestamps:

Note: Timestamps will vary on individual listening devices based on dynamic advertising run times. The provided timestamps are approximate and may be several minutes off due to changing ad lengths.

(0:00) Show introduction

(2:00) Intro to tax day discussion

(2:46) Common tax savings for W-2 employees

(4:12) Standard vs itemized deductions explained

(5:46) Often forgotten property tax deductions

(6:58) Sales tax deductions for no-income-tax states

(9:06) Medical expense deduction thresholds

(12:53) Charitable giving strategies and overlooked deductions

(17:51) Bunching donations in alternate years

(22:20) Home sale tax exclusion misconceptions

(30:44) Tax withholding changes and common mistakes

(44:35) Bonus payment tax myths debunked

(52:52) Finding the right tax professional

(1:02:02) Small business and real estate investor tips

(1:09:38) Best practices for tax record keeping

(1:15:14) Preparing for potential tax code changes

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A recession is coming, and it might be worse than most people expect. That’s the sobering assessment from Bob Elliott, former Head of Ray Dalio’s Investment Team at Bridgewater Associates, when he joins us on the podcast.

Bob explains that several economic factors are converging to create challenging conditions. The combination of current trade policies, persistent inflation issues, and a Federal Reserve that’s constrained in its response is creating significant economic headwinds.

Tariffs play a central role in this economic outlook. While their inflationary impact remains debatable, their growth-negative effects are more certain. When imported goods become more expensive, consumers have less money to spend on other things. This reduces demand across the entire economy.

Manufacturing and reshoring aren’t simple solutions either. Bob points out that building new factories takes about five years, with payback periods stretching 30 years. This timeline explains why CEOs hesitate to make such investments, especially in an environment where policies change unpredictably.

This uncertainty has driven CEO confidence to its lowest levels since the 2008 financial crisis, further complicating economic prospects.

For individual investors, Bob offers surprisingly straightforward advice. Despite his sophisticated background managing billions, he follows a simple personal investment strategy: dollar-cost averaging and diversification. He even limits himself to reviewing his investments just once annually — typically the Wednesday before Thanksgiving.

This disciplined approach prevents overtrading and removes emotion from investment decisions — principles that apply whether you’re investing regular income or handling a windfall.

Throughout our conversation, Bob emphasizes that the US economy fundamentally runs on consumer spending. When policies redirect money from discretionary spending toward necessities, the effects ripple throughout the entire system.

Want to hear more of Bob’s insights on recession probability, investment strategy, and economic policy? Listen to the full episode now.

Timestamps:

Note: Timestamps will vary on individual listening devices based on dynamic advertising run times. The provided timestamps are approximate and may be several minutes off due to changing ad lengths.

(0:00) Introducing Bob Elliott, former head of Ray Dalio’s investment team at Bridgewater

(2:56) Bob discusses high probability of recession due to growth-negative policies

(7:00) Tariffs likely growth negative in short-term despite long-term manufacturing goals

(14:20) Transition from global supply chains to parallel and redundant manufacturing systems

(19:50) Four economic levers: tariffs, tax policy, monetary policy, and government spending

(26:15) Stock market reacts to short-term expectations despite positive long-term outlook

(34:15) Bond markets performing well as growth slows; potential recession duration of 1-1.5 years

(45:40) Long-term productivity growth creates wealth despite short-term volatility

(53:15) Dollar-cost averaging and diversification recommended for individual investors

(59:15) Bob discusses founding GiveWell to identify highest-impact charitable giving

(1:11:10) Bob explains Unlimited Funds, making hedge fund strategies accessible to everyday investors

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Yesterday, the White House rolled out the biggest tariffs in a century, sending markets into their worst decline since the pandemic. While headlines focus on supply chains and inflation, there are important economic stories you’re not hearing about.

During the first half of this month’s First Friday episode, we dig into what nobody’s talking about. And in the second half, we grapple with the headlines.

Student loan rules just changed again. The government added new limits to Public Service Loan Forgiveness. Right now, 9.2 million people — one in five borrowers — can’t keep up with payments. Many folks don’t even know payments started again after that four-and-a-half-year break.

S&P just dropped a new report that backs what smart money already knows: index funds crush actively managed funds 90 percent of the time. Even with all those tech stocks dominating the market, you still come out ahead with simple indexing.

You know who’s gobbling up the mortgage market? Rocket Companies. They just bought both Redfin and Mr. Cooper. They’ll handle one of every six mortgages in America. They’ve positioned themselves at every step of the homebuying journey — from when you search for homes on Redfin to financing and monthly payments for the next 30 years.

The White House just made a surprising move with Bitcoin. They’re setting up a Strategic Bitcoin Reserve to hold coins long-term. They’re also creating a separate stockpile for crypto they seize in legal cases. Pretty clear signal that Bitcoin stands apart from other cryptocurrencies.

In the second half, we dive into those significant new tariffs making headlines.

The S&P 500 dropped 4.8 percent on Thursday — we haven’t seen a drop like that since the pandemic. The new rules put at least a 10 percent tariff on everything coming into the country. Then come the “reciprocal” rates: 20 percent for European goods, 27 percent for items from India, and a combined 65 percent for Chinese imports.

We bring in Bob Elliott to make sense of this situation. His credentials are impressive — he spent 13 years at Bridgewater Associates (the world’s largest hedge fund), served as head of Ray Dalio’s investment team, and graduated magna cum laude from Harvard.

During the 2008 crisis, he directly advised the Treasury, Federal Reserve, and White House.

Bob offers a reality check about bringing back manufacturing jobs: you can’t build factories overnight. These investments take years, and companies hesitate to make 30-year commitments when policies change every few months.

Bob breaks down four economic forces all hitting at once: tariffs jacking up prices, government cutting spending, tax policies on hold, and the Fed moving like molasses. Put them together? Yikes. He doesn’t sugarcoat it — the short-term outlook looks “pretty negative.”

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Eva is finally closing in on her financial independence goals, but she’s grappling with how to make a smooth transition from accumulation to decumulation. What should she consider?

John has noticed a game-changing omission from recent discussions about traditional versus Roth IRAs. Is this as big of a deal as he thinks it is?

An anonymous caller is excited to convert his primary residence into a rental property. But he’ll only make a profit if he first sells some equities to pay down the mortgage. Is this a good idea?

Former financial planner Joe Saul-Sehy and I tackle these questions in today’s episode.

Enjoy!

P.S. Got a question? Leave it here.

_______

Eva asks (at 02:50 minutes):   I recently attended your Purpose Code book launch event in New York City, and one of the audience questions really stuck with me. How much cash should we hold to reduce sequence-of-return risk as you approach financial independence (FI)?

That got me thinking: Many long-time listeners, myself included, have been on this FIRE journey since your podcast started. And with the strong market over the past several years, I suspect a lot of us are either nearing or crossing our FI goalposts.

How should someone transition their portfolio from accumulation to decumulation? And when is the right time to start making those changes?

From my research, two approaches seem relevant here:

I don’t think I’ve heard you do a deep dive on risk parity models before, but I’d love to hear your thoughts. Assuming we’re less worried about adding some complexity if it supports long-term success, what’s the best way to approach asset allocation in the decumulation phase?

Anonymous asks (at 31:14 minutes):  My wife recently got a job in Cleveland, and we’re excited to make the move from Michigan. Now, we have to decide: should we sell our house or convert it into a rental property?

If we sell, we’ll likely break even. But I’ve been wanting to get into rental real estate, and this seems like a good opportunity to learn. That said, I could also just start fresh in Cleveland.

Our mortgage is a seven-year ARM at 4.875 percent with $0 down. It resets in 2030 to the one-year treasury rate plus 2.75 percent, capped at 9.875 percent. By the time we sell or rent it out, we’ll owe $421,000 on the loan.

I’ve run the numbers in Excel, and it looks like we’d be cash flow negative—somewhere between $5,000 and $15,000 per year—unless the property appreciates enough to make up for it. An alternative I’ve considered is selling some equities to recast the mortgage.

We have no debt, $105,000 in cash, $520,000 in tax-advantaged accounts, and $578,000 in taxable accounts. If I used $200,000 to pay down the mortgage, the property would likely turn cash flow positive. But I hesitate to do that for a few reasons:

At the same time, I wonder if I’m missing an opportunity here. What do you think? Should we sell or rent? And if we rent, should I pay down the mortgage first?

John asks (at 51:39 minutes):    In your recent discussions about the pros and cons of traditional versus Roth IRAs, I was surprised that neither of you highlighted one major advantage of a Roth: the ability to grow tax-free for decades, even well past retirement.

I converted my traditional IRA to a Roth back in 1997 and retired in 2020. Now, at nearly 72, I have over $1 million in my Roth that I haven’t touched—and don’t foresee needing to anytime soon.

Because there are no required minimum distributions (RMDs), I can let it continue growing, possibly for decades, all tax-free. If I had left it in a traditional IRA, that tax-free compounding would be coming to an end right around now, and I’d be facing withdrawals and taxes.

So my question is: Isn’t this a significant long-term advantage of a Roth for those who can afford to keep the money invested? Or am I missing something?

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Ever wonder if you could afford to travel for months at a time? According to Nomadic Matt, who’s visited more than 100 countries over the last 19 years, you can see the world on just $75 a day. That’s about $27,375 per year, less than many people’s current cost of living.

Matt Kepnes, better known as Nomadic Matt, joins us to challenge common assumptions about travel costs. He explains that long-term travel can actually be cheaper than staying home.

When you’re traveling, you shed many regular expenses that eat into your budget back home, like car payments, home insurance, and utility bills.

The key is to “travel like you live,” as Nomadic Matt puts it. This means using public transportation instead of taxis, shopping at local markets, and seeking out free activities — just like you might do in your hometown.

It’s not about staying at five-star resorts, but experiencing destinations authentically while keeping costs reasonable.

Nomadic Matt also breaks down several travel myths. The old advice about booking flights on Tuesdays? Outdated in today’s algorithmic pricing world. Using incognito mode to get better flight prices? No evidence supports this idea.

He does confirm that booking round-trip flights often costs less than one-way tickets, even if you don’t use the return portion.

For those interested in credit card points, Nomadic Matt recommends choosing cards based on your specific travel goals rather than chasing the most popular options. Consider which airlines you use most and what perks you’ll actually take advantage of.

The pandemic has transformed travel in significant ways. While prices have increased and some budget travel services have disappeared, new opportunities have emerged — especially for remote workers who can now take advantage of digital nomad visas to live abroad while maintaining their income.

Whether you’re planning a two-week vacation or dreaming of becoming location-independent, Nomadic Matt’s practical advice shows how international travel is more accessible than you might have thought.

Timestamps:

Note: Timestamps will vary on individual listening devices based on dynamic advertising run times. The provided timestamps are approximate and may be several minutes off due to changing ad lengths.

(0:00) Intro to Nomadic Matt and $75/day budget

(1:00) Modern hostels aren’t grungy anymore

(3:00) Origins of the $75/day travel budget

(5:00) “Travel like you live” approach saves money

(8:50) Mix accommodations based on trip needs

(9:40) Choose travel cards matching your specific goals

(16:40) Use points before devaluation happens

(20:00) Best booking times for flights

(37:00) Social media’s impact on global travel

(42:00) Overcoming language barriers easily

(48:30) Post-COVID travel costs and changes

(56:20) Remote work visas for long-term travelers

(1:02:40) Why travel costs less than staying home

(1:05:50) How location independence evolved from unusual to mainstream

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An anonymous caller is brooding over a mistake he made in 2023 when he decided to contribute to his Roth instead of a pre-tax account. How does he get over this?

June is annoyed that she triggered short-term capital gains and wash sales when she sold assets in her taxable brokerage last year. How does she avoid these issues in the future?

Zerai wants to add mid and small-cap exposure, but his 457 plan has a limited selection of mutual funds. What’s the proper way to select the best fund among the available options?

Former financial planner Joe Saul-Sehy and I tackle these questions in today’s episode.

Enjoy!

P.S. Got a question? Leave it here.

_______

Anonymous asks (at 01:13 minutes): I’ve been following your recent discussions on the Roth versus pre-tax decision with great interest. After reviewing my 2023 and 2024 choices, I think I made a mistake, and I’d love your take on it.

In 2023, I maxed out my 401(k) in Roth dollars while in the 32 percent tax bracket, even though I knew my bracket would drop to 24 percent in 2024. Wouldn’t it have been better to contribute pre-tax in 2023 and then do a Roth conversion the following year?

I can already hear Joe saying, “It’s just 8 percent. You can’t optimize everything.” But for those of us who enjoy fine-tuning our finances, this feels like a big misstep. My 2023 contribution would’ve been my only pre-tax contribution, so the conversion would’ve been limited to $23,000.

Did I truly make an error here? And more broadly, how do you move past the frustration of making an optimization mistake? Any personal insights or experiences from your own past financial mistakes would be great to hear.

June asks (at 28:22 minutes):  As I prepare for tax season, I realized that in selling some assets in my taxable brokerage, I triggered both short-term capital gains and wash sales. While most of my gains were long-term, I’d like to avoid unnecessary taxes and wash sale issues in the future.

Do you have any advice on how to better recognize and prevent these when managing a taxable brokerage account? I use Vanguard, which I know many of your listeners also use, so any insights specific to their platform would be especially helpful.

Zerai asks (at 48:16 minutes):   I have a 457 plan through my job with a limited selection of mutual funds. Right now, my allocation is 65 percent in the S&P 500 and 35 percent in international equities, but I’d like to add some mid-cap or small-cap exposure.

Two options are available: the Fidelity Extended Market Index Fund (FSMAX) and the Wellington CIF II SMID Cap Research Fund (SMICRX). There isn’t much publicly available information on SMICRX, and its fees are slightly higher than FSMAX.

Between these two, which would be the better choice to diversify my portfolio?

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Ever wonder what’s happening in your brain right before you knock on your boss’s door to ask for a raise? Dr. Joel Salinas, neurologist and brain health expert, joins us to explain the neurology of negotiation.

When you avoid difficult conversations, your brain actually rewards you with a small dopamine hit. That temporary relief feels good, reinforcing the avoidance behavior.

But Dr. Salinas explains this creates a problematic loop: the more you avoid conflict, the more uncomfortable it becomes when you face it.

Breaking this cycle starts with a simple but powerful step: taking a breath. A long, slow exhale activates the more deliberative parts of your brain, helping you move beyond knee-jerk reactions.

Dr. Salinas suggests focusing on what he calls the “Bigger Better Offer” — the meaningful reward that comes from pushing through discomfort. Thinking about what happens if you don’t ask for that raise (struggling to pay bills, missing career advancement) can motivate you to overcome avoidance tendencies.

Beyond workplace conflicts, we explore fascinating brain facts:

Want to boost your brain health? Dr. Salinas recommends regular exercise, brain-healthy foods like leafy greens and berries, quality sleep, supportive social connections, and challenging yourself with new skills.

The conversation meanders through various aspects of brain function — from why humans are visual creatures to how trauma impacts neural pathways — all explained in accessible, engaging terms.

Whether you’re looking to have difficult conversations more effectively or simply curious about the remarkable three-pound organ controlling your reality, this episode offers practical insights into the science of your mind.

Timestamps:

Note: Timestamps will vary on individual listening devices based on dynamic advertising run times. The provided timestamps are approximate and may be several minutes off due to changing ad lengths.

(0:00) Intro

(3:00) What happens in your brain when asking for a raise

(6:30) How negativity bias shapes interactions with authority figures

(10:41) The “Bigger Better Offer” technique for breaking behavioral loops

(19:22) Why avoiding conflict creates reward pathways in the brain

(29:12) Training your brain to tolerate disagreement

(34:52) How salience and valence affect what we perceive as conflict

(40:42) The role of internal conflict in decision-making

(55:08) Understanding the structure and functions of different brain regions

(1:00:53) Why imagination of possibility matters for breaking rumination cycles

(1:06:45) How challenging our brain creates new neural pathways

(1:11:42) Five key behaviors that improve long-term brain health

(1:17:03) Brain plasticity and how it changes throughout our lifetime

(1:22:51) Resources for learning more about conflict resilience

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Robinhood

Bilder fra Inventura-kurset Negotiation Fundamentals med Robert Borden og kollega. Foto: Eivind Senneset

Imagine you’re about to ask your boss for a raise. Your stomach tightens. You’ve rehearsed what to say, but doubt creeps in. Should you be more assertive? More understanding of company constraints?

Bob Bordone, who has taught negotiation for 25 years including 21 years at Harvard Law School, joins us to explain why you don’t have to choose between empathy and assertiveness. In fact, combining them is key to successful negotiations.

“It might feel like a tension, but it’s not an actual one,” Bordone explains. “I can fully appreciate what you’re feeling without ever giving anything up in a negotiation.”

Bordone breaks down his three-part preparation framework:

He also introduces fascinating concepts like “conflict recognition” — how quickly we perceive something as a conflict — and “conflict holding” — our comfort with leaving conflicts unresolved. These differences often cause relationship problems when we’re unaware of them.

“My best friend and I might debate over Flaming Hot Cheetos for 25 minutes. For me, with high conflict recognition, it’s completely fun. I go home and sleep like a baby,” Bordone says. “For someone with low conflict recognition, they might think, ‘That was horrible. Did I hurt the relationship?'”

When someone tries to shut down your request with policy (“that’s just how we do things here”), Bordone recommends what he calls the “Wizard of Oz tactic” — asking a few more questions rather than immediately accepting defeat.

The skills you develop asking for a raise transfer to other challenging conversations — from family inheritance discussions to political disagreements with colleagues.

Bordone emphasizes that conflict isn’t something to avoid but rather a normal part of relationships. The question isn’t whether we’ll have conflict, but how we handle it when it inevitably arrives.

Want to hear the full conversation? Listen to the latest episode wherever you get your podcasts.

Timestamps:

Note: Timestamps will vary on individual listening devices based on dynamic advertising run times. The provided timestamps are approximate and may be several minutes off due to changing ad lengths.

(0:00) Introduction to Bob Bordone

(2:35) Contentious times vs 25 years ago

(4:26) Negotiation vs facilitation vs conflict resolution

(5:56) Key negotiator skills

(8:35) Empathy meets assertiveness

(11:22) Mirror work explained

(15:58) Chair work technique

(19:58) Table work strategies

(24:10) Role-playing in preparation

(31:44) Rights, power, interests framework

(35:39) Conflict recognition vs conflict holding

(42:22) Handling power imbalances

(50:13) “Difficult people” reconsidered

(54:45) Process vs substance importance

(1:07:43) Digital vs in-person negotiations

(1:14:22) Supporting introverts in negotiations

(1:19:10) Multi-party negotiation challenges

(1:24:35) Building conflict resilience

(1:31:51) Navigating union constraints

(1:36:18) Agency and influence takeaways

Resources mentioned:

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Robinhood

In the left corner, we have Paul Merriman, the seasoned finance veteran weighing in at 183 pounds. In the right corner, Dr. Karsten Jeske, the scrappy newcomer at 208 pounds. The bell rings, and the small cap value debate begins.

This episode features a financial boxing match between two investment heavyweights with dramatically different perspectives. Paul Merriman champions diversification through the efficient frontier, which means adding small cap value to your portfolio. Dr. Karsten Jeska has “thrown cold water” on this approach, favoring simpler strategies like “VTSAX and chill.”

The stakes are high — we’re talking potentially millions of dollars in your retirement account over decades.

Merriman argues that history shows clear evidence for small cap value’s premium. From 2000 to 2009, small cap value outperformed the S&P 500 in all but one year, compounding at 10 percent while the S&P 500 returned negative 1 percent. He believes this pattern will continue, creating a powerful diversification effect when combined with broader market indexes.

Jeske counters that small cap value’s outperformance is mostly “front-loaded” in history, happening before anyone knew about it. Since 2006, small cap value has underperformed. He argues that once an advantage becomes widely known, it disappears in an efficient market. Adding small cap value might even be “di-worsification” — increasing complexity without improving returns.

The debate expands beyond small cap value to touch on:

While both experts disagree about small cap value’s future, they agree on fundamentals: invest early, stay invested for the long term, and understand that no one can predict markets with certainty.

What starts as a technical debate evolves into a philosophical discussion about evidence, probability, and the limits of our knowledge — all with millions of retirement dollars hanging in the balance.

Timestamps:

Note: Timestamps will vary on individual listening devices based on dynamic advertising run times. The provided timestamps are approximate and may be several minutes off due to changing ad lengths.

(0:00) Debate intro: small cap value vs index funds

(4:01) Merriman: small cap value offers premium returns

(9:40) Jeske: small cap value underperformed since 2006

(18:20) Historical performance data significance

(25:15) Stakes: difference of millions over time

(33:08) Diversification vs added volatility debate

(41:45) Risk-adjusted returns comparison

(49:08) Questioning true diversification benefits

(57:40) Value traps and actively managed funds

(1:05:08) Technology stocks vs value investments

(1:13:45) Data selection bias in studies

(1:19:40) Faith vs science in investment decisions

(1:29:20) Personal risk tolerance considerations

(1:36:08) Closing arguments on investment strategies

(1:42:08) Paula declares the debate a draw

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