Recorded as Nigeria’s President Bola Ahmed Tinubu arrived for bilateral talks with South Africa’s President Cyril Ramaphosa, this episode explores the dynamics of the Nigeria-South Africa relationship. At first glance, the warm visuals emerging from their meeting might lead an uninformed observer to believe that these two nations, represented by their amiable leaders, are the best of friends, united by a historical bond of tender affection and brotherly love. However, for those familiar with the interactions between these countries—especially on social media—it's clear that the diplomatic niceties barely mask some thorny citizen-to-citizen relations.

The rivalry between these two nations has intensified since 2014, when Nigeria’s GDP-rebasing exercise revealed it had surpassed South Africa as Africa’s largest economy. While much of the bilateral banter about who really owns amapiano or why the Super Eagles are vastly superior to Bafana Bafana may seem harmless and mildly humorous, it has occasionally spilled into more serious territory, with incidents of deliberate sabotage, hostile clashes, and xenophobic violence emerging in both countries. Recent examples illustrating this tension include the so-called “bolt for bolt” battle between Lagos and Johannesburg, along with the controversy surrounding the Miss South Africa competition and the xenophobic backlash faced by Chidimma Adetshina.

This backdrop frames our conversation about what is really happening between these two nations. Is it time to admit that Nigeria is winning? But more seriously: what, if anything, is at stake in the competition? What drives the vitriol? And what would a normal relationship look like? To explore these questions—and hopefully find some clarity—we're joined by the esteemed Khanya Mtshali, a critic and staff writer for Africa Is a Country.